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View Full Version : My Letter To The FO Short And Sweet Fix That Thing You Call An O Line


gary
11-27-2009, 04:50 PM
Dear Houston Texans FO,
Wake up and fix the O line. I am sure you're sitting there wondering why the running game isn't doing as well as last season when you have the same backs. Now I know two starters from the O line from last season aren't playing but in case you haven't noticed your center keeps getting blown off the LOS by players who are much larger and quite a bit stronger than he is. News flash that thing you throw out there every single game flat out sucks so badly that AP or MJD wouldn't even do them justice. They aren't providing nearly as many running lanes for Stevie as a matter of fact they aren't really providing any at all. What is the theme of this letter? You're probably asking. It's really simple draft some O line men in the NFL draft and then work them into the lineup this offseason so you may come back next season and truley judge what type of running game you have.

Signed,
The entire Houston Texans fan base

Porky
11-27-2009, 05:02 PM
Gary, how do you explain that we had the same center last year, and had a much better running attack?

DexmanC
11-27-2009, 05:11 PM
Gary, how do you explain that we had the same center last year, and had a much better running attack?

Chester Pitts.
He'd routinely help both Brown AND Myers do their jobs. Now that
he's gone, the son of Kubiak's teammate, Studdard, is an absolute
sieve.

Malloy
11-27-2009, 05:18 PM
Signed,
The entire Houston Texans fan base

uhm... no?

m5kwatts
11-27-2009, 05:22 PM
The guards are the problem. Studdard and White are back ups. We could get along with Myers if our guards were playing well, which Brisiel and Pitts did last year.

gary
11-27-2009, 05:27 PM
Gary, how do you explain that we had the same center last year, and had a much better running attack?That's all fine and good but Myers still sucked last season and the thinner the depth on the O line gets the more it shows an upgraded line is a must even more so at RG, and LG IMO.

steelbtexan
11-27-2009, 05:28 PM
There used to be a thread last offseason Fix The Damn OL.

Kubes has chosen not to make the OL a priority.

Until this becomes a priority the best Texan fans can hope for is 6-10, 10-6.

They will not be a serious contender until they fix the OL.

Either by FA, the draft or both.

steelbtexan
11-27-2009, 05:31 PM
That's all fine and good but Myers still sucked last season and the thinner the depth on the O line gets the more it shows an upgraded line is a must IMO.

Agreed

How anybody can say fixing the OL isn't job no.1 is beyond me.

m5kwatts
11-27-2009, 05:34 PM
There used to be a thread last offseason Fix The Damn OL.

Kubes has chosen not to make the OL a priority.

Until this becomes a priority the best Texan fans can hope for is 6-10, 10-6.

They will not be a serious contender until they fix the OL.

Either by FA, the draft or both.

They spent a first round pick on a left tackle in 08. The thinking going into this season was we're set at o-line other than finding depth because all 5 guys suited up every game last year and the offense produced.

The personnel is in place other than the guys on IR (Daniels, Pitts, Brisiel) for this team to be a serious contender.

They won't be a serious contender until they execute in crucial situations. Getting stuffed in Arizona, fumbling at home vs. Jacksonville, missing game-tying field goals in Indy and on MNF, those are the things that need fixing. And thats all about execution, not personnel.

gary
11-27-2009, 05:37 PM
uhm... no?You don't agree?

Malloy
11-27-2009, 05:42 PM
You don't agree?

Not completely, and it REALLY get on my nerves when someone speaks on my behalf :)

gary
11-27-2009, 05:43 PM
They spent a first round pick on a left tackle in 08. The thinking going into this season was we're set at o-line other than finding depth because all 5 guys suited up every game last year and the offense produced.

The personnel is in place other than the guys on IR (Daniels, Pitts, Brisiel) for this team to be a serious contender.

They won't be a serious contender until they execute in crucial situations. Getting stuffed in Arizona, fumbling at home vs. Jacksonville, missing game-tying field goals in Indy and on MNF, those are the things that need fixing. And thats all about execution, not personnel.Some probably aren't going to like this but even if Chester comes back fully healthy he'll have to replace him soon anyway IMO.

Texan4Ever
11-27-2009, 05:51 PM
I wouldn't worry too much. I think Kubiak & Co. WILL find somebody, either in the draft or FA in order to address the issues on hand. The 2010 NFL Draft will be important for us and I think like in 2006, 2010 will be in our favor as there is a large quantity of solid interior linemen or both sides (offense and defense).

Just to throw this out there, Uath's Zane Beadles and anyone from the Longhorns offensive line would be a MAJOR upgrade compared to what we have.

gary
11-27-2009, 05:56 PM
Not completely, and it REALLY get on my nerves when someone speaks on my behalf :)Well, I'm very sorry. I won't do that again. Do you foregive me? I hope so.

TheRealJoker
11-27-2009, 06:01 PM
I think Eric Winston would be a really good RG. He's just too much of a liability against speed rushers at RT. I would actually have preferred them to move him inside after Brisiel went down and brought Butler in at RT. I think that OL would've been better than the one we have now.

I would like to see them add another interior OL in the draft and sign a quality FA OL. We need to find someone to start over Chris Myers. I am disappointed with Caldwell thus far because he hasn't been able to get into the lineup despite both starting guards going to IR and Chris Myers still in the lineup. Talent-wise I would venture to guess we have the worst interior OL in the league. Caldwell was a 4 year starter for Alabama...he should have beaten out the guys starting ahead of him by now.

gary
11-27-2009, 06:13 PM
Move Eric to RG and get another RT, C, and LG. then go from there.

m5kwatts
11-27-2009, 06:36 PM
Duane Brown and Winston should and will stay put in their respective positions for the next 5, 7 to 10 years as long as they're healthy. The tackles are fine we're set there. We have starters money invested in both of them as well. Those guys are only going to get better, their mistakes are mental, not because of physical limitations.

On the other hand our guards and center are physically limited. They understand the scheme and attempt to execute but get outmuscled or out-techniqued (is that even a word?) too often to be starters in this league. The interior line needs serious upgrading and the staff knows this. Studdard and White are playing right now because they're the best we have in our current situation. It would not surprise me if we drafted 2 interior lineman high in this next draft.

nunusguy
11-27-2009, 06:53 PM
Move Eric to RG and get another RT, C, and LG. then go from there.
Gary, you know you're a real hard-azz today about our OLine ? But since you've initiated this thread, it's only appropriate for real Texan fans to respond.
I'm a firm beliver in drafting D-Line and O-Line ahead of anything else (except for QB of course). Like this year I wanted them to take Michael Oher when we found him on the Board when our #15 rolled around even though I also liked the Mizzou WR McClin. But to my dismay they took a LB which I felt was a real mistake when you have a guy who is a real OLine talent, including a capability to play LT. That's just kinda my basic philosophy. But I like the sound of an OLine with Duane Brown, Winston, &
Oher, whichever positions you play them at ?

steelbtexan
11-27-2009, 07:33 PM
They spent a first round pick on a left tackle in 08. The thinking going into this season was we're set at o-line other than finding depth because all 5 guys suited up every game last year and the offense produced.

The personnel is in place other than the guys on IR (Daniels, Pitts, Brisiel) for this team to be a serious contender.

They won't be a serious contender until they execute in crucial situations. Getting stuffed in Arizona, fumbling at home vs. Jacksonville, missing game-tying field goals in Indy and on MNF, those are the things that need fixing. And thats all about execution, not personnel.

Although I'm thrilled with Cushing Oher would have been a good pick also. If they were truly committed to building th OL they could have traded their 2nd RD pick and a2010 1st RD pick to draft Oher in addition to Cushing in the 1st rd. Our OL would have been set for years. This takes forward thinking. Obviously Smithiak had Barwin (Pass Rusher) rated as more of a need and Barwin > than Oher on the talent scale.

I could see a trade like this in the 2010 draft because it improves the odds of getting 2 impact players at positions of need. (OL-DB) And the fact if Smithiak doesn't win in 2010 McNair will clean house. If he doesn't clean house after this year.

They tried to get by with the same OL for 2 yrs in a row and got burned.

TheRealJoker
11-27-2009, 07:53 PM
Oher would've been a nice addition to the OL. We would be able to get plenty of push in short yardage running on the right side with Winston at RG and Oher at RT. Plus we would have Brisiel coming off the bench to take over for Pitts after his unfortunate injury instead of Studdard.... but where would our defense be without Cushing? I'd say they'd be around the same amount of production as the Richard Smith defenses, especially with Mario's lack of production this year due in large part to an unforeseeable nagging injury.

Hindsight is 20/20: Knowing what we know now I wouldn't mind giving up a future high draft pick (maybe next year's 2nd rather than first though) and move up to get Oher in addition to Cushing. But given what we knew at the time the decision was made you never want to give up future draft picks or even extra draft picks in general on a rookie OL. I'd say Cushing was the BPA thus far in hindsight at # 15.

gary
11-27-2009, 07:58 PM
Gary, you know you're a real hard-azz today about our OLine ? But since you've initiated this thread, it's only appropriate for real Texan fans to respond.
I'm a firm beliver in drafting D-Line and O-Line ahead of anything else (except for QB of course). Like this year I wanted them to take Michael Oher when we found him on the Board when our #15 rolled around even though I also liked the Mizzou WR McClin. But to my dismay they took a LB which I felt was a real mistake when you have a guy who is a real OLine talent, including a capability to play LT. That's just kinda my basic philosophy. But I like the sound of an OLine with Duane Brown, Winston, &
Oher, whichever positions you play them at ?Winston and Brown are fine and don't bother me. They get the job done and probably will stay put as long as they remain healthy. No one has brought up the fact that for the first two games of this season the O line was healthy and there weren't any running lanes being opened up at all really and I just think smething has to give sooner rather than later and like it or not IMO, it's the line.

TheRealJoker
11-27-2009, 08:02 PM
Winston and Brown are fine and don't bother me. They get the job done and probably will stay put as long as they remain healthy. No one has brought up the fact that for the first two games of this season the O line was healthy and there weren't any running lanes being opened up at all really and I just think smething has to give sooner rather than later and like it or not IMO, it's the line.

Our OL was solid at best last season. The coaches were hoping they'd "gel" and become even better this year. Last year we couldn't run against good front seven teams either. The first two games we played two teams that are very good against the run and Pitts was rusty missing almost all of preseason. Maybe the OL would've taken that next step if Pitts and Brisiel had not gotten injured? I doubt it, as long as Myers is sarting at center the OL will always be soft up the middle even if we had Steve Hutchinson playing LG.

bckey
11-27-2009, 08:08 PM
Well, I'm very sorry. I won't do that again. Do you foregive me? I hope so.

Just add him to you're ignore list like me and enjoy the bliss.

SAMURAITEXAN
11-27-2009, 08:12 PM
I can see us drafting OL likely OG and C in 2010 class or FA. At least one should be drafted between 2nd-4th rd.

Go Texans!!!

steelbtexan
11-27-2009, 08:18 PM
Oher would've been a nice addition to the OL. We would be able to get plenty of push in short yardage running on the right side with Winston at RG and Oher at RT. Plus we would have Brisiel coming off the bench to take over for Pitts after his unfortunate injury instead of Studdard.... but where would our defense be without Cushing? I'd say they'd be around the same amount of production as the Richard Smith defenses, especially with Mario's lack of production this year due in large part to an unforeseeable nagging injury.

Hindsight is 20/20: Knowing what we know now I wouldn't mind giving up a future high draft pick (maybe next year's 2nd rather than first though) and move up to get Oher in addition to Cushing. But given what we knew at the time the decision was made you never want to give up future draft picks or even extra draft picks in general on a rookie OL. I'd say Cushing was the BPA thus far in hindsight at # 15.

Agreed

Cushing was the BPA not only at 15 but Cushing was probably a top 5 pick that fell to 15.

If Smithiak are picking at 15 this year and they pick a DB like Lindley who I think could be there. Would you be willing to give up a 2010 2nd and a 2011 1st to draft an OL who fell. (Baluga for example)

Honoring Earl 34
11-27-2009, 08:49 PM
I'm OK with the OTs and I also think that Caldwell will be fine . That leaves two positions and maybe Chester comes back to fill one . That means I'm looking for a guard nicknamed Ham bone who is thick and powerful .

Texans_Chick
11-27-2009, 09:05 PM
Yup. We should just go to Costco and get some offensive linemen in the middle of the season. That's an easy fix.

And the front office should get us a shrimp ring too, because Costco does a nice shrimp ring.

Honoring Earl 34
11-27-2009, 09:16 PM
Yup. We should just go to Costco and get some offensive linemen in the middle of the season. That's an easy fix.

And the front office should get us a shrimp ring too, because Costco does a nice shrimp ring.

I'm very leery of buying seafood like that . I'm always afraid the shrimp will be mishandled and I'll get food poisoning . At least with linemen you can't get food poisoning .

Buffi2
11-27-2009, 10:44 PM
Yup. We should just go to Costco and get some offensive linemen in the middle of the season. That's an easy fix.

And the front office should get us a shrimp ring too, because Costco does a nice shrimp ring.


Maybe Costco is having a Black Friday Sale on offensive linemen and we can get 3 for the price of 2.

beerlover
11-27-2009, 10:51 PM
its a process which is difficult to attain if ever. simple supply & demand balanced with luck, hard work & investment of resources. Buffalo spent a 1st rd. pick on Center/OG Eric Wood (out for the season-broken leg) & 2nd OG Andy Levitre who is now starting LT (Seth McKinney & Demetrius Bell also lost for the season) death blow to Dick Jauron, hired about the same time as Kubiak.

Winston was just athletic enough to work out @ RT but will never have the range he did before he blew out his ACL in Miami when he was a top LT prospect.

RG was Fred Wearys job until injury cut his career short. Now its a rotation of Brisiel, White & Caldwell. Seems pretty much set with one of those players solidifying position in next couple years just as long as the same coaching staff stays intact.

Chirs Myers is the best Center the Texans have had in their short franchise history & they got him for a 6th rd. pick. I don't see how we can complain about that? would I like to see Caldwell get a shot? yes, but I don't see them running out & spending a 1st day pick on one.

Pitts has been the Texans franchise LG, lets hope he returns to form. otherwise Studdard has really exceeded my expectations, again 6th rd. pick.

Duane Brown has stepped it up from his rookie year, taking all the snaps. Like his aggressive attitude, athletic ability to move in space & is willing to work hard to improve. I think the Texans got a good one here.

The quickest move in the direction you insist upon would require luck, the type that eludes most teams & only few hit on (shining example - Ryan Clady slipping to 12th in 08). Russell Okung, Oklahoma State is one such rare talent, if the Texans could manage to position themselves for his services I could see kicking Winston inside to RG, see what Caldwell can do @ Center & hope Pitts is back. now that would be a decent group to run out there as Bob McNair & Gary would surely approve :snowday:

mussop
11-28-2009, 06:34 AM
Gary, you know you're a real hard-azz today about our OLine ? But since you've initiated this thread, it's only appropriate for real Texan fans to respond.
I'm a firm beliver in drafting D-Line and O-Line ahead of anything else (except for QB of course). Like this year I wanted them to take Michael Oher when we found him on the Board when our #15 rolled around even though I also liked the Mizzou WR McClin. But to my dismay they took a LB which I felt was a real mistake when you have a guy who is a real OLine talent, including a capability to play LT. That's just kinda my basic philosophy. But I like the sound of an OLine with Duane Brown, Winston, &
Oher, whichever positions you play them at ?

Read my sig.

Oher would've been a nice addition to the OL. We would be able to get plenty of push in short yardage running on the right side with Winston at RG and Oher at RT. Plus we would have Brisiel coming off the bench to take over for Pitts after his unfortunate injury instead of Studdard.... but where would our defense be without Cushing? I'd say they'd be around the same amount of production as the Richard Smith defenses, especially with Mario's lack of production this year due in large part to an unforeseeable nagging injury.

Hindsight is 20/20: Knowing what we know now I wouldn't mind giving up a future high draft pick (maybe next year's 2nd rather than first though) and move up to get Oher in addition to Cushing. But given what we knew at the time the decision was made you never want to give up future draft picks or even extra draft picks in general on a rookie OL. I'd say Cushing was the BPA thus far in hindsight at # 15.


I love Cushing and what he brings to the team but no way was he the better player available (especially for us) over Oher. I have been begging for a killer OLB since this teams inception but no way do you take one over a top OT prospect. This is where Kubiak and Smith have cut their own throats. They followed an outdated blueprint from Denver that puts OL low on the priority list.

I know it sounds kleshay (sp?) but games are won and lost in the trenches. You might get lucky and be able to build a really good OL out of late round prospects and castoffs from other teams, but its foolish/arrogant to use that as you're blueprint for turning a cellar dweller frachise into a winner.

I guess im just a smashmouth kind of fan. I became a football fan by watching the Oilers ram Earl Campbell down opponets throats. That is the kind of football I love and miss. I hate this finesse crap and really hope we go after a coach that will bring in an impose you're will philosophy when we do go after a new one. I hate the feeling I get everytime we face a short yardage situation or when we need to run time off the clock. Sorry for the rant, I just cant take it when we loose because we are incapable of producing in these situations.

nunusguy
11-28-2009, 09:12 AM
I love Cushing and what he brings to the team but no way was he the better player available (especially for us) over Oher. I have been begging for a killer OLB since this teams inception but no way do you take one over a top OT prospect. This is where Kubiak and Smith have cut their own throats. They followed an outdated blueprint from Denver that puts OL low on the priority list.
I know it sounds kleshay (sp?) but games are won and lost in the trenches. You might get lucky and be able to build a really good OL out of late round prospects and castoffs from other teams, but its foolish/arrogant to use that as you're blueprint for turning a cellar dweller frachise into a winner.


I to have grown very attached to Cushing, and it's not just sentiment because he's already a valuable part of our defense. He's played beyond my wildest expectations, especially since he's on the field making plays in the nickel. If the Ravens came to us today and said Oher for Cushing, even up, I'd be hard pressed to make that trade (if it were me who was deciding in this little pretend world ?).
But the thing is as a matter of basic philosophy top OTs trump top LBs, if we are talking 4-3 LBs (now 3-4 OLB is a whole 'nother subject because they are the primary pass-rushers in the 3-4).
We could have used our first round pick on Other to play one of the OT slots knowing we'd only invested a 3-round pick on Winston and he could very easily be moved inside to one of the guard positions.
The game is won "in the trenches", at the los. Controlling the los gives you the best chance to win the game and if the other team controls winning is an uphill battle.

ArlingtonTexan
11-28-2009, 09:41 AM
I to have grown very attached to Cushing, and it's not just sentiment because he's already a valuable part of our defense. He's played beyond my wildest expectations, especially since he's on the field making plays in the nickel. If the Ravens came to us today and said Oher for Cushing, even up, I'd be hard pressed to make that trade (if it were me who was deciding in this little pretend world ?).
But the thing is as a matter of basic philosophy top OTs trump top LBs, if we are talking 4-3 LBs (now 3-4 OLB is a whole 'nother subject because they are the primary pass-rushers in the 3-4).
We could have used our first round pick on Other to play one of the OT slots knowing we'd only invested a 3-round pick on Winston and he could very easily be moved inside to one of the guard positions.
The game is won "in the trenches", at the los. Controlling the los gives you the best chance to win the game and if the other team controls winning is an uphill battle.

The Texans have invested a large $$$ contract to Winston. There is a lot of myth about the Texans and investment in both OL/DLs. acccording to the way theat they draft and allocated FA $$$, they place a premium on those position over others.

Most of out large contract FA over the history of the club have been in OL/DL including Smith this off-season. They have selected an linemen in the first or 2nd round for 5 straight drafts and in the Kubiak era they have selected 3 OL in the 3rd round. They have more OL coaches than anyone in the league. The Texans philosophy appears to be exactly one of emphasis on the threnches, but need to improve on the players that they are identifying.

Texans_Chick
11-28-2009, 10:15 AM
I'm very leery of buying seafood like that . I'm always afraid the shrimp will be mishandled and I'll get food poisoning . At least with linemen you can't get food poisoning .

Victor Riley made me throw up.

dalemurphy
11-28-2009, 10:20 AM
I'm OK with the OTs and I also think that Caldwell will be fine . That leaves two positions and maybe Chester comes back to fill one . That means I'm looking for a guard nicknamed Ham bone who is thick and powerful .

But, part of the reason why the OLine is struggling right now is we are on guards #3 and #4.... you can't just build a starting lineup. You have to be 8 deep in quality olinemen.

Honoring Earl 34
11-28-2009, 11:45 AM
But, part of the reason why the OLine is struggling right now is we are on guards #3 and #4.... you can't just build a starting lineup. You have to be 8 deep in quality olinemen.

Your right but you have to start with players that have more than journeyman potential .

Honoring Earl 34
11-28-2009, 12:30 PM
Victor Riley made me throw up.

Well TC ... I like conspiracies and I think we have one here . Think Victor Riley as Lee Harvey Oswald and HWNSNBM as JFK . I think Pendry was Carlos Marcello .

infantrycak
11-28-2009, 12:43 PM
They followed an outdated blueprint from Denver that puts OL low on the priority list.

Huh? They took an OT in the 1st last year. They have spent 3 3rd round picks on OLmen. How is 4 (what was formerly known as) 1st day picks a low priority?

beerlover
11-28-2009, 01:22 PM
I love Cushing and what he brings to the team but no way was he the better player available (especially for us) over Oher. I have been begging for a killer OLB since this teams inception but no way do you take one over a top OT prospect. This is where Kubiak and Smith have cut their own throats. They followed an outdated blueprint from Denver that puts OL low on the priority list.

I know it sounds kleshay (sp?) but games are won and lost in the trenches. You might get lucky and be able to build a really good OL out of late round prospects and castoffs from other teams, but its foolish/arrogant to use that as you're blueprint for turning a cellar dweller frachise into a winner.

I guess im just a smashmouth kind of fan. I became a football fan by watching the Oilers ram Earl Campbell down opponets throats. That is the kind of football I love and miss. I hate this finesse crap and really hope we go after a coach that will bring in an impose you're will philosophy when we do go after a new one. I hate the feeling I get everytime we face a short yardage situation or when we need to run time off the clock. Sorry for the rant, I just cant take it when we loose because we are incapable of producing in these situations.

durability was the reason Cushing was available @ #15.

Oher slipped because of his slower than expected timed speed, foot speed less than ideal for athletic LT which projected him as a RT prospect where the Texans felt set w/Winston.

Cushing has elite size & speed for position combined with natural intincts & LB mentality he is worth a top 10 pick (again if you knew he could stay healthy). Then we all knew the Texans were going to address defense first, they could have changed up in the 2nd but they really wanted to give Bush the tools to knock this need out.

The Texans free agency record is what troubles me. I would just as soon sign our must have guys, DeMeco & Daniels & forget about it, just focus on the draft but that takes time to develop & build up depth/talent base.

Now we can come back to some of those missed draft opportunites on the OL who are about to hit the free agent market. - http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

TheRealJoker
11-28-2009, 01:36 PM
durability was the reason Cushing was available @ #15.

Oher slipped because of his slower than expected timed speed, foot speed less than ideal for athletic LT which projected him as a RT prospect where the Texans felt set w/Winston.

Cushing has elite size & speed for position combined with natural intincts & LB mentality he is worth a top 10 pick (again if you knew he could stay healthy). Then we all knew the Texans were going to address defense first, they could have changed up in the 2nd but they really wanted to give Bush the tools to knock this need out.

The Texans free agency record is what troubles me. I would just as soon sign our must have guys, DeMeco & Daniels & forget about it, just focus on the draft but that takes time to develop & build up depth/talent base.

Now we can come back to some of those missed draft opportunites on the OL who are about to hit the free agent market. - http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

Agreed on FA. I hope Rick Smith does the right thing and PAYS DeMeco/Daniels this offseason. What kind of message does it send to your players when you overpay another team's FA but do not want to deal with the guys who have produced for you? I can understand franchising Dunta, he was never a pro bowl player to begin with and had the injury.

I know PAYING OD would go against the grain due to the injury, but the guy was already a pro bowler. If anything, if we pay him now we will not have to pay him more later.

DeMeco is a no-brainer...you pay the leader of your defense.

houstonspartan
11-28-2009, 01:45 PM
Agreed on FA. I hope Rick Smith does the right thing and PAYS DeMeco/Daniels this offseason. What kind of message does it send to your players when you overpay another team's FA but do not want to deal with the guys who have produced for you? I can understand franchising Dunta, he was never a pro bowl player to begin with and had the injury.

I know PAYING OD would go against the grain due to the injury, but the guy was already a pro bowler. If anything, if we pay him now we will not have to pay him more later.

DeMeco is a no-brainer...you pay the leader of your defense.

Not worried about DeMeco. He'll get paid.

steelbtexan
11-28-2009, 05:03 PM
durability was the reason Cushing was available @ #15.

Oher slipped because of his slower than expected timed speed, foot speed less than ideal for athletic LT which projected him as a RT prospect where the Texans felt set w/Winston.

Cushing has elite size & speed for position combined with natural intincts & LB mentality he is worth a top 10 pick (again if you knew he could stay healthy). Then we all knew the Texans were going to address defense first, they could have changed up in the 2nd but they really wanted to give Bush the tools to knock this need out.

The Texans free agency record is what troubles me. I would just as soon sign our must have guys, DeMeco & Daniels & forget about it, just focus on the draft but that takes time to develop & build up depth/talent base.

Now we can come back to some of those missed draft opportunites on the OL who are about to hit the free agent market. - http://www.footballsfuture.com/2010/fa/ol.html

The point is that Smithiak could've had Oher and Cushing if they had been willing to take a chance and trade their 2010 first and the Barwin pick for Oher. That would have meant that McNair would have had to pay 1st rd. money for 2 players and we both know that isn't going to happen. On a side note I think the 2010 draft class is a weak one. What is your opinion?

Smithiak may be wiiling to trade future picks to move up in the 2010 draft and get two 1st rd picks. Because if they dont win next year they will be fired. If they're not fired after the 2009 season.

infantrycak
11-28-2009, 05:23 PM
The point is that Smithiak could've had Oher and Cushing if they had been willing to take a chance and trade their 2010 first and the Barwin pick for Oher. That would have meant that McNair would have had to pay 1st rd. money for 2 players and we both know that isn't going to happen.

Where do myths like this get started? First off, epic fail on that prediction since McNair has already done just this on a prior occasion. Remember Dunta and Babin? Second, there is no savings on Barwin and a 1st rounder over a 1st rounder. Third, McNair has had top third of the league payrolls for years.

nunusguy
11-28-2009, 05:26 PM
I know PAYING OD would go against the grain due to the injury, but the guy was already a pro bowler. If anything, if we pay him now we will not have to pay him more later.

DeMeco is a no-brainer...you pay the leader of your defense.
I think OD has been a terrific player for us, but for the umteenth time he's a huge beneficiary of the Kubiak offense and it's yet to be determined if the Kubiak offense or its namesake is in Houston next year ? In the meantime, lets what James Casey, another smallish but quick TE with excellent hands who might benefit from the Kubiak systems, can do in the remaining games of this season ?
Re DeMeco, couldn't agree more - pay the man. Whether we end up in a 4-3 or 3-4 or whatever next year, he's a LB who will excel and he's a team leader.

Imatexanfan
11-28-2009, 05:33 PM
There used to be a thread last offseason Fix The Damn OL.

Kubes has chosen not to make the OL a priority.

Until this becomes a priority the best Texan fans can hope for is 6-10, 10-6.

They will not be a serious contender until they fix the OL.

Either by FA, the draft or both.

It's been like this from day one, ever since we got Tony Boselli and yet he couldn't play. From then on our OL is cursed is still cursed to this day. Until something big happens this offseason look forward to the same results until this issue is addressed.:choke:

ArlingtonTexan
11-28-2009, 05:56 PM
Where do myths like this get started? First off, epic fail on that prediction since McNair has already done just this on a prior occasion. Remember Dunta and Babin? Second, there is no savings on Barwin and a 1st rounder over a 1st rounder. Third, McNair has had top third of the league payrolls for years.

People make asumptions and generalizations about things w/o actually looking at facts. Example: If the team is not good in an area, they are not drafting/signing FA in that position or if the team is not good the owner is cheap. Once, the facts are shown then they will keep stabbing at junk instead of finding out info before they post.

gary
11-28-2009, 05:57 PM
Losing Weary was a giant set back for the OL. I hope Pitts returns and plays well. Start Caldwell in place of Myers and draft another G.

steelbtexan
11-28-2009, 05:59 PM
Where do myths like this get started? First off, epic fail on that prediction since McNair has already done just this on a prior occasion. Remember Dunta and Babin? Second, there is no savings on Barwin and a 1st rounder over a 1st rounder. Third, McNair has had top third of the league payrolls for years.

Yeah McNair is all wonderful. Meanwhile the Texans are about to miss the playoffs again.

Failure of the Texans starts at the top.

I forgot about the Babin fleecing. I would like to see what the Texans payroll has been since the Smithiak regime took over. How much cap room was left over after this offseason? Could that money have been spent on sgning 1 OL that could have provided capable depth?

Fact is since Kubes has taken over McNair hasn't signed one impact FA nor have they made one agressive move in the draft.IMO

I believe McNair isn't willing to take risks and you can say he took a risk bringing football back to Houston. The risk was minimal because he knew that the great fans of the HOUSTON TEXANS would support any form of NFL football that was thrown out there.

I wonder if the Texans orginazation hurt anywhere near as bad as their fan base did after Monday nights debacle. I seriously doubt it.

But McNair is all wonderful and everything.

dalemurphy
11-28-2009, 06:11 PM
Yeah McNair is all wonderful. Meanwhile the Texans are about to miss the playoffs again.

Failure of the Texans starts at the top.

I forgot about the Babin fleecing. I would like to see what the Texans payroll has been since the Smithiak regime took over. How much cap room was left over after this offseason? Could that money have been spent on sgning 1 OL that could have provided capable depth?

Fact is since Kubes has taken over McNair hasn't signed one impact FA nor have they made one agressive move in the draft.IMO

I believe McNair isn't willing to take risks and you can say he took a risk bringing football back to Houston. The risk was minimal because he knew that the great fans of the HOUSTON TEXANS would support any form of NFL football that was thrown out there.

I wonder if the Texans orginazation hurt anywhere near as bad as their fan base did after Monday nights debacle. I seriously doubt it.

But McNair is all wonderful and everything.



1. Antonio Smith
2. Drafted Mario Williams over Reggie and Vince
3. traded two picks for Matt Schaub, who only had 3 career starts
4. hired a first time head coach
5. hired a very young, first time GM

I'm disappointed with the season so far and the last few season, for sure. But, let's at least be accurate in our criticisms.

mussop
11-28-2009, 06:13 PM
Huh? They took an OT in the 1st last year. They have spent 3 3rd round picks on OLmen. How is 4 (what was formerly known as) 1st day picks a low priority?

Im talking about Smith and Kubiak.

Imatexanfan
11-28-2009, 06:13 PM
1. Antonio Smith
2. Drafted Mario Williams over Reggie and Vince
3. traded two picks for Matt Schaub, who only had 3 career starts
4. hired a first time head coach
5. hired a very young, first time GM

I'm disappointed with the season so far and the last few season, for sure. But, let's at least be accurate in our criticisms.

There you go...:tiphat:

Honoring Earl 34
11-28-2009, 06:15 PM
1. Antonio Smith
2. Drafted Mario Williams over Reggie and Vince
3. traded two picks for Matt Schaub, who only had 3 career starts
4. hired a first time head coach
5. hired a very young, first time GM

I'm disappointed with the season so far and the last few season, for sure. But, let's at least be accurate in our criticisms.

It's kinda like sitting down for supper and there's no meat . You get pissed and shout why isn't there any damn meat , y'all were supposed to go hunting . Bob responds ... we did go hunting ... we didn't hit anything .

steelbtexan
11-28-2009, 06:28 PM
1. Antonio Smith
2. Drafted Mario Williams over Reggie and Vince
3. traded two picks for Matt Schaub, who only had 3 career starts
4. hired a first time head coach
5. hired a very young, first time GM

I'm disappointed with the season so far and the last few season, for sure. But, let's at least be accurate in our criticisms.

I'm just another digruntled season ticket holder.

Accuracy be damned.

Arguably the way to build a winning organization isn't by hiring a bunch of 1st timers on the cheap but hey maybe I'm wrong and McNair is right.

infantrycak
11-28-2009, 06:29 PM
Im talking about Smith and Kubiak.

Well Kubiak was there for all four of the picks I referred to. Smith has been in on two drafts and they have used a 1st and 3rd in those two drafts on OL. I still don't see how you can claim it hasn't been a priority for them. That's just 1st day picks. They also drafted Studdard and signed and developed folks like Breisel, and Butler plus traded for Myers.

steelbtexan
11-28-2009, 06:29 PM
It's kinda like sitting down for supper and there's no meat . You get pissed and shout why isn't there any damn meat , y'all were supposed to go hunting . Bob responds ... we did go hunting ... we didn't hit anything .

My feelings exactly

Repped

steelbtexan
11-28-2009, 06:35 PM
At this point in the season I would be willing to move Winston to G and start Butler at RT and Caldwell at C.

The Texans aren't going anywhere with this OL as currently constructed.

Desparate times call for desparate measures.

gary
11-28-2009, 06:38 PM
It's kinda like sitting down for supper and there's no meat . You get pissed and shout why isn't there any damn meat , y'all were supposed to go hunting . Bob responds ... we did go hunting ... we didn't hit anything .Or like Bud going hunting and hitting big a big fine by the NFL and that's all. Hey, I'm sorry but you know I just had to go there. LOL.

beerlover
11-28-2009, 07:20 PM
The point is that Smithiak could've had Oher and Cushing if they had been willing to take a chance and trade their 2010 first and the Barwin pick for Oher.

I didn't know that, do you have a source?

That would have meant that McNair would have had to pay 1st rd. money for 2 players and we both know that isn't going to happen.

I beleive McNair would pull the purse strings if his football people really felt this move was in the best interest of his franchise.

On a side note I think the 2010 draft class is a weak one. What is your opinion?

As the draft approaches & underclassman come out it will drive opinion up or down. Usually Senior classes by themselves do not create enough feeding frenzie for NFL teams to start buzzing.

Smithiak may be wiiling to trade future picks to move up in the 2010 draft and get two 1st rd picks. Because if they dont win next year they will be fired. If they're not fired after the 2009 season.

Guess I'm just the opposite, I'm big on trading down not up and stockpiling picks ala New England. Besides poor choices one of the main reasons the Texans are in this situation is that they choose to trade away valueable 2nd round picks to address a specific need instead of having more overall talent to develop long term. Do I need to rehash all those fumbles? Steve Slaton is not alone. 2004, 2005, 2007 & 2008. The Texans have only Matt Schaub to show for all those picks & still cannot protect him, or have a decent consistant running game to balance the passing attack which I suppose is the reason for this thread in the first place.

In fact I propose Texans never be allowed to trade another second round pick as long as Bob McNair is owner of the Texans.

gary
11-28-2009, 11:22 PM
I hope they don't trade away their second round draft picks anymore or at least for awhile. LOL.

houstonspartan
11-28-2009, 11:29 PM
I'm just another digruntled season ticket holder.

Accuracy be damned.

Arguably the way to build a winning organization isn't by hiring a bunch of 1st timers on the cheap but hey maybe I'm wrong and McNair is right.

Season ticket holder checking in. I feel you. At this point, paying that invoice next spring is iffy.

But, I will give McNair a break. The man is not cheap. And, he's more engaged than he ever has been. He has said, several times, that 8-8 is not going to cut it.

Norg
11-28-2009, 11:38 PM
My letter is short and sweet

Dear FO


We still suck :P

steelbtexan
11-29-2009, 12:27 AM
Season ticket holder checking in. I feel you. At this point, paying that invoice next spring is iffy.

But, I will give McNair a break. The man is not cheap. And, he's more engaged than he ever has been. He has said, several times, that 8-8 is not going to cut it.

I'm going to renew next year but if McNair keeps the current regime after saying 8-8 isn't good enough I may have to reconsider.

They cant even use the we had a difficult card anymore. They are playing against the NFC west for gods sake.

If it was me it's 9-7 or bust Smithiak.

9-7 that's not to much for the loyal fans of the HOUSTON TEXANS to ask is it Mr.McNair?

mussop
11-29-2009, 10:39 AM
Well Kubiak was there for all four of the picks I referred to. Smith has been in on two drafts and they have used a 1st and 3rd in those two drafts on OL. I still don't see how you can claim it hasn't been a priority for them. That's just 1st day picks. They also drafted Studdard and signed and developed folks like Breisel, and Butler plus traded for Myers.


First lets take Breisel, Studdard, Myers and Butler out of the equation. They donít belong in this discussion.

Now lets talk about Brown and how he was acquired. The year we drafted Brown, getting a starting LT was even obvious to the most oblivious ESPN message board posters. LT was this teams Achilles Heal and it was paramount we find one in the draft that could contribute right away. That particular draft was considered on of the deepest drafts in history for first round OT talent. So what does Smithiak do? They sit and watch the top 5 OTís in the draft go in front of them then they trade down and watch 2 more OTís get picked and finally take a second round talent that played Guard but was considered a T PROSPECT.

I know it worked out pretty good but when you consider the situation and how dire our need was for a starting LT, I donít see how you can say drafting Brown shows this staff seeís the OL as a high priority.

For me its less about where we have gotten our O-linemen and more about the opportunities we have passed. Another example, just last year we had a chance to draft a Oher a highly rated OL who could play guard or T and we passed for an OLB with an injury history. Once again it worked out but it shows OL is less a priority than it should be IMO.

We also could of drafted Max Unger in the second round last year, a player who could play any position on the line who fit perfect in our ZB scheme and we passed for a defensive guy with no resume but a lot of potential. This after seeing Myers get absolutely blown up for most of last year.

Sorry but too many times this staff has passed on high quality OL prospects for risky potential picks elsewhere for my taste. I do see where you are coming from but we have had the opportunity to solidify our OL too many times and passed for me to believe OL is properly prioritized.

Of course consider that I am a trenches first guy so anything less than completing our down lineman with every opportunity other than passing up a franchise player or far superior talent is irresponsible IMO.


On a side note, do you think Kubiak had more than an opinion on whether or not to draft Winston and Spencer?

steelbtexan
11-29-2009, 10:48 AM
First lets take Breisel, Studdard, Myers and Butler out of the equation. They donít belong in this discussion.

Now lets talk about Brown and how he was acquired. The year we drafted Brown, getting a starting LT was even obvious to the most oblivious ESPN message board posters. LT was this teams Achilles Heal and it was paramount we find one in the draft that could contribute right away. That particular draft was considered on of the deepest drafts in history for first round OT talent. So what does Smithiak do? They sit and watch the top 5 OTís in the draft go in front of them then they trade down and watch 2 more OTís get picked and finally take a second round talent that played Guard but was considered a T PROSPECT.

I know it worked out pretty good but when you consider the situation and how dire our need was for a starting LT, I donít see how you can say drafting Brown shows this staff seeís the OL as a high priority.

For me its less about where we have gotten our O-linemen and more about the opportunities we have passed. Another example, just last year we had a chance to draft a Oher a highly rated OL who could play guard or T and we passed for an OLB with an injury history. Once again it worked out but it shows OL is less a priority than it should be IMO.

We also could of drafted Max Unger in the second round last year, a player who could play any position on the line who fit perfect in our ZB scheme and we passed for a defensive guy with no resume but a lot of potential. This after seeing Myers get absolutely blown up for most of last year.

Sorry but too many times this staff has passed on high quality OL prospects for risky potential picks elsewhere for my taste. I do see where you are coming from but we have had the opportunity to solidify our OL too many times and passed for me to believe OL is properly prioritized.

Of course consider that I am a trenches first guy so anything less than completing our down lineman with every opportunity other than passing up a franchise player or far superior talent is irresponsible IMO.


On a side note, do you think Kubiak had more than an opinion on whether or not to draft Winston and Spencer?

Spot On

For the record

I'm a bulid the trenches 1st guy

Scooter
11-29-2009, 11:42 AM
First lets take Breisel, Studdard, Myers and Butler out of the equation. They donít belong in this discussion.

Now lets talk about Brown and how he was acquired. The year we drafted Brown, getting a starting LT was even obvious to the most oblivious ESPN message board posters. LT was this teams Achilles Heal and it was paramount we find one in the draft that could contribute right away. That particular draft was considered on of the deepest drafts in history for first round OT talent. So what does Smithiak do? They sit and watch the top 5 OTís in the draft go in front of them then they trade down and watch 2 more OTís get picked and finally take a second round talent that played Guard but was considered a T PROSPECT.

I know it worked out pretty good but when you consider the situation and how dire our need was for a starting LT, I donít see how you can say drafting Brown shows this staff seeís the OL as a high priority.

For me its less about where we have gotten our O-linemen and more about the opportunities we have passed. Another example, just last year we had a chance to draft a Oher a highly rated OL who could play guard or T and we passed for an OLB with an injury history. Once again it worked out but it shows OL is less a priority than it should be IMO.

We also could of drafted Max Unger in the second round last year, a player who could play any position on the line who fit perfect in our ZB scheme and we passed for a defensive guy with no resume but a lot of potential. This after seeing Myers get absolutely blown up for most of last year.

Sorry but too many times this staff has passed on high quality OL prospects for risky potential picks elsewhere for my taste. I do see where you are coming from but we have had the opportunity to solidify our OL too many times and passed for me to believe OL is properly prioritized.

Of course consider that I am a trenches first guy so anything less than completing our down lineman with every opportunity other than passing up a franchise player or far superior talent is irresponsible IMO.


On a side note, do you think Kubiak had more than an opinion on whether or not to draft Winston and Spencer?

i'm not sure i understand this post, you seem to be upset that we got the draft picks right. we got the best or second best LT (brown) in the draft, when we could've drafted a lesser player higher. the only reason we were even in that position was because of a freak injury to someone i did and still looking back would've penciled into the hall of fame (fully accepting due criticism) in charles spencer who was drafted first day of kubiak's first season. we moved in the second round for a pass rusher because it was (is) easily our weakest link (still 31st in sacks) and added a comperable or better interior lineman in the third round. we missed on a position we were full (OT) in order to draft a do it all defensive player who's running away with DROY. we've drafted 4 offensive linemen in the first day for the past 4 seasons, and while i have no intention on researching that one, i doubt many teams match that number.

i'm a build inside out guy as well, and anyone who's followed my posts through the season knows i want nothing more than from the offensive line, but we're doing it. as a trend i seem to be more content than most to the pace we're working on these things and can show it's actually faster than tradition, but to your intent i completely agree that we need to make (or continue to make) concrete moves to solidify the trenches.

ArlingtonTexan
11-29-2009, 12:06 PM
First lets take Breisel, Studdard, Myers and Butler out of the equation. They donít belong in this discussion.

Now lets talk about Brown and how he was acquired. The year we drafted Brown, getting a starting LT was even obvious to the most oblivious ESPN message board posters. LT was this teams Achilles Heal and it was paramount we find one in the draft that could contribute right away. That particular draft was considered on of the deepest drafts in history for first round OT talent. So what does Smithiak do? They sit and watch the top 5 OTís in the draft go in front of them then they trade down and watch 2 more OTís get picked and finally take a second round talent that played Guard but was considered a T PROSPECT.

I know it worked out pretty good but when you consider the situation and how dire our need was for a starting LT, I donít see how you can say drafting Brown shows this staff seeís the OL as a high priority.

For me its less about where we have gotten our O-linemen and more about the opportunities we have passed. Another example, just last year we had a chance to draft a Oher a highly rated OL who could play guard or T and we passed for an OLB with an injury history. Once again it worked out but it shows OL is less a priority than it should be IMO.

We also could of drafted Max Unger in the second round last year, a player who could play any position on the line who fit perfect in our ZB scheme and we passed for a defensive guy with no resume but a lot of potential. This after seeing Myers get absolutely blown up for most of last year.

Sorry but too many times this staff has passed on high quality OL prospects for risky potential picks elsewhere for my taste. I do see where you are coming from but we have had the opportunity to solidify our OL too many times and passed for me to believe OL is properly prioritized.

Of course consider that I am a trenches first guy so anything less than completing our down lineman with every opportunity other than passing up a franchise player or far superior talent is irresponsible IMO.


On a side note, do you think Kubiak had more than an opinion on whether or not to draft Winston and Spencer?

So basically, you are saying the Texans did not draft the speicifc guys you wanted. gotcha.

DexmanC
11-29-2009, 12:22 PM
So basically, you are saying the Texans did not draft the speicifc guys you wanted. gotcha.

Not only is he saying that . He's saying the 1st round pick happened in a
vacuum. Here's the deal... The Texans traded down, because we had
NO 2nd round pick, and only ONE 3rd round pick. Trading down got us
an additional 3rd round pick. We selected:

3rd Round (1st): Antwaun Molden. Before you call this a bad pick, the kid
was promising until he had his ankle destroyed defending a punt. Before
that hit, he was one of the best gunners in all the NFL. The coaches put
him on special teams to break him in. That was not because he sucked. He
was probably the most natural corner we had on the roster as a rookie.

3rd Round (2nd): Steve Slaton. From where we got him in the draft, he was
by far the best value pick of the entire 2008 draft. He's a kid with low-first
high-second round talent, and we picked him up in the bottom of the 3rd
round.

So, he's in essence saying ONE OT > Duane Brown + Slaton + Molden.
I strongly disagree.

mussop
11-29-2009, 03:47 PM
This is in response to the last three post. First off you guys need to read the whole thread before you question peoples post. I was not saying what you are all suggesting. Infrynac (sp?) and I were in debate on whether or not this regime puts a high priority on building our OL. He pointed out the picks we have spent to build the OL to support his stance and I pointed out the opportunities we have had and passed as why I felt they dont put enough emphasis on the OL.

Scooter
11-29-2009, 04:20 PM
edit

mussop
11-29-2009, 05:09 PM
edit

Whats teh matter Scooter cat got your tounge? Cmon let me have it. :kitten:

gary
11-29-2009, 05:45 PM
In the second half of today's game the O line did another outstanding job protecting Matt and keeping him on his feet once again. I'm very proud of them.

steelbtexan
11-29-2009, 06:29 PM
The OL hepled produce 0 meaningful points in the 2nd half.

This is SOS different version.

gary
11-29-2009, 07:55 PM
A job well done I'm proud of them.

Scooter
11-29-2009, 08:49 PM
Whats teh matter Scooter cat got your tounge? Cmon let me have it. :kitten:

nah, just trying to clean up what i can of the bourbon induced posts lol. :breakdance: