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TimeKiller
11-17-2009, 11:05 AM
...and Dunta Robinson doesn't have a pick, a sack, only 5 deflections and a forced fumble that I can't seem to remember. 27 tackles don't bother me so much because you don't really want your corners making 75 tackles a year but no picks? He's got more pass interferences than plays on the ball. He's also got more money than proof, more talk than walk and 7 regular seasons games left to prove he's even half the player we took in 2004: 3 sacks, 6 picks, 19 (!) pass deflections, forced a fumble and had 74 tackles. Where is THAT player?


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RobiDu20.htm

stevn8r
11-17-2009, 11:08 AM
I wonder if he has been thrown to less? Or just plain underachieving:thinking:

Cjeremy635
11-17-2009, 11:14 AM
I wonder if he has been thrown to less? Or just plain underachieving:thinking:

That's my guess. He seems to be giving a big cushion on the receivers and then being forced to make early contact to stop the pass. I'm not seeing him play the ball very much this season. I really liked him, but I'd only like to see him stay if he can return to close to original form. My biggest concern is if we let him walk, what does that do for the mentality of our locker room? We don't have a lot of veteran players on this team and I remember well what happened after we let a group of veterans leave in the past. If we can let him go and maintain our swagger on D, I'm for that. Having said that, he didn't play in the preseason and is returning after a major injury, so I really need to see how he finishes the season off before I make up my mind. As of this moment though, I don't think he's earning the paycheck he's getting.

Porky
11-17-2009, 11:15 AM
Dunta is a damn good run support corner, one of the best. He is a locker room leader as well as an on field leader. Is he the player he once was? Probably not. Hell his leg is being held together with bailing wire, some bubble gum and rubber bands, but he is still above average taking everything into consideration. And I think he is improving and might still be close to what he was with another year under his belt.

I understand your point, but I think we need to try and sign this guy, if possible, in the offseason. If he is being unreasonable again, then jettison him, but we need to make every effort to resign him. This D without Dunta is a step backwards.

eriadoc
11-17-2009, 11:17 AM
Dunta Robinson's rookie season wasn't as great as many of y'all seem to make out. His '07 season was better. Stats don't tell the story for corners.

That said, he isn't half the player he was in 2005 or 2006, and damn sure not worth $10 million.

TheRealJoker
11-17-2009, 11:44 AM
Aside from his rookie season he's never been a ballhawk type. Very good in run support and usually covers his WR well. But if the WR gets open and the QB throws it to him then it usually means he's out of position and will not be making a play on the ball.

El Tejano
11-17-2009, 11:46 AM
That's my guess. He seems to be giving a big cushion on the receivers and then being forced to make early contact to stop the pass. I'm not seeing him play the ball very much this season. I really liked him, but I'd only like to see him stay if he can return to close to original form. My biggest concern is if we let him walk, what does that do for the mentality of our locker room? We don't have a lot of veteran players on this team and I remember well what happened after we let a group of veterans leave in the past. If we can let him go and maintain our swagger on D, I'm for that. Having said that, he didn't play in the preseason and is returning after a major injury, so I really need to see how he finishes the season off before I make up my mind. As of this moment though, I don't think he's earning the paycheck he's getting.

I think that's where Bernard Pollard steps in. Dude has made plays and has become the vocal leader. Go back and read his quotes, all things that said the team just needs to stick with it and things will get better. Well, they have and his play has proved it.

nunusguy
11-17-2009, 12:27 PM
I understand that after Cushing, Quin is the most impressive and arguably MV
rookie on the team ? I know he's already a regular in our nickel package and wonder if he appears to be on schedule to start at CB next fall if Dunta departs ?
I know a big issue for him as a full-time CB is his top-end speed, but he's turned out to probably be the best value in this years Draft for us.

dalemurphy
11-17-2009, 12:36 PM
...and Dunta Robinson doesn't have a pick, a sack, only 5 deflections and a forced fumble that I can't seem to remember. 27 tackles don't bother me so much because you don't really want your corners making 75 tackles a year but no picks? He's got more pass interferences than plays on the ball. He's also got more money than proof, more talk than walk and 7 regular seasons games left to prove he's even half the player we took in 2004: 3 sacks, 6 picks, 19 (!) pass deflections, forced a fumble and had 74 tackles. Where is THAT player?


http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/R/RobiDu20.htm

He earns $10 million simply for keeping Fred Bennett off the field. Money well spent!!

Cjeremy635
11-17-2009, 12:41 PM
He earns $10 million simply for keeping Fred Bennett off the field. Money well spent!!

Great....winner by default. That's gonna get us farrrrrrrrrrr!

Texecutioner
11-17-2009, 12:41 PM
Thank god the Texans never gave in to his demands while he was holding out. He hasn't impressed me one bit this season, and he's not really going to get much better from here if he does at all. I'd be perfectly happy to let him walk after this season and try to sign possibly another CB on the market if there is a good one around.

TimeKiller
11-17-2009, 12:48 PM
My biggest concern is if we let him walk, what does that do for the mentality of our locker room? We don't have a lot of veteran players on this team and I remember well what happened after we let a group of veterans leave in the past. If we can let him go and maintain our swagger on D, I'm for that.
Fair point but as far as swagger goes, I'd point to guys who talk and play TOUGH (I didn't say good, I said TOUGH) football like Smith, Cushing and Pollard long before I point to someone who's last trip through the media was to cry about his huge contract.


I understand your point, but I think we need to try and sign this guy, if possible, in the offseason. If he is being unreasonable again, then jettison him, but we need to make every effort to resign him. This D without Dunta is a step backwards.
If he points to an improved defense as a reason to pay him while his play looks like crap, produces extremely little and isn't clearly deserving of a huge contract again then resigning him is the only step going backwards. Locker room influence or not you have to make plays to get paid. Stupid type money anyway, we all see DanO with the big 9 mil in the bank for some reason.

Dunta Robinson's rookie season wasn't as great as many of y'all seem to make out. His '07 season was better. Stats don't tell the story for corners.

That said, he isn't half the player he was in 2005 or 2006, and damn sure not worth $10 million.
I didn't watch the Texans with the same set of eyes then...but I'm telling you right now I'd damn sure have the kind of INT/PD numbers from '04 than what he's doing now which is holding on to receivers because he can't keep up with them.
I understand that after Cushing, Quin is the most impressive and arguably MV
rookie on the team ? I know he's already a regular in our nickel package and wonder if he appears to be on schedule to start at CB next fall if Dunta departs ?
I know a big issue for him as a full-time CB is his top-end speed, but he's turned out to probably be the best value in this years Draft for us.
He doesn't have that burner gear but his instincts are sharp and puts himself in good position. I haven't seen him whiff a tackle yet either which really makes me want to line him up as the FS next to the big hammer Pollard. He's definitely the best value so far. Cushing is great but you spend a 1st, you expect something like this. Barwin, Caldwell, Hill and McCain pretty much fit in with what you expect from mid rounds but Quin has excelled and James Casey is about to get his shot. Really want to see this class in 3 years. When we win a superbowl for the 3rd year in a row!!!!!!!!!:fans:

Malloy
11-17-2009, 12:49 PM
D-Rob is still a good player, but 10 mil a year in a salery-capped league, not so much...

Hardcore Texan
11-17-2009, 12:51 PM
D-Rob is still a good player, but 10 mil a year in a salery-capped league, not so much...

Pretty much how I feel, he's just decent, not great but serviceable. The reported contract offer was a good offer for the guy.

Marcus
11-17-2009, 12:56 PM
So this is what it's come down to now?

We're paying some guy 10 million a year to be better than Fred Bennett?

:thud:

Malloy
11-17-2009, 01:06 PM
So this is what it's come down to now?

We're paying some guy 10 million a year to be better than Fred Bennett?

:thud:

not a year, it's only one year :)

In retrospect I'm glad we paid him the 10 mil, now we know that he's not worth the big contract, and since the money is already spend we wont have to drag the expenses into next year.

barrett
11-17-2009, 01:06 PM
Dunta is a damn good run support corner, one of the best.

I don't feel that that is true so much anymore. He's aggressive, but when you compare him to the other 10 guys on the field during a run play, he is the most consistently out of position. He takes bad angles and exhibits poor tackling habits.

Porky
11-17-2009, 01:17 PM
He's better than servicable. DRob is a legit to very good #2 starter on anyone's D right now. Y'all are way underestimating his value imo. Run support is an under appreciated art for a corner, and Drob is in the top handfull in the league for run support. I know everyone wants to credit Pollard and Quinn for the run turnaround and rightly so, but Drob has been a big part of that too. I've also seen him make some plays this year in the pass game that y'all are overlooking. One in Cinci or Buff if I recall pretty much sealed the win.

Also, he is likely to get better over the last half of the season, and significantly better next year than this year. That is the nature of the type of injury he had. The blueprint is these guys aren't usually at their post injury peak until 2 full football seasons after thier injury. That is next year.

Now is he going to be a top ten corner in football like he was pre injury? I doubt he returns to that level. But I do see him returning to being an excellent #2 CB, or a decent #1. So, then it's all about the numbers. If he is willing to be somewhat reasonable, I would sign him in a NY minute. Otherwise, you are going to end up using a high and valuable draft pick on an unknown commodity, OR reach into the FA pool for someone that will cost as much or more - and oh BTW when was the last time this team picked up a true difference maker in FA? Reeves and Smith are the best of a bad lot of FA signings over the years. So, I don't see how swapping our over-priced FA for someone else's overpriced FA makes us any better.

Porky
11-17-2009, 01:24 PM
I don't feel that that is true so much anymore. He's aggressive, but when you compare him to the other 10 guys on the field during a run play, he is the most consistently out of position. He takes bad angles and exhibits poor tackling habits.

Well Barrett, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Maybe he isn't elite anymore, but he is still damn good (speaking in terms of run support)

Hervoyel
11-17-2009, 01:41 PM
Dunta's perfectly good at corner in this league. He's never been a 1 but he's been very good as a 2 when we had a legitimate 1 on the other side. Having said that.....

That was then, this is now. I don't care for Dunta Robinson and haven't for a long time. I think he's stood out because in our short history we didn't have too many guys on our team who were "vocal leader-types" and so he's often been at the center of what little emotional wave our team was riding. He's our miniature Ray Lewis firing up the rest of the players and we all dig that except... how fired up do we usually look? How much energy does this guy generate seriously?

That he's been our favorite defensive player over the years doesn't mean he's some kind of magnificent corner. He's pretty middle of the pack and on a team with good depth in the secondary he's not vital. He's sure as hell not franchise player 9 million a year vital. Reeves is clearly a better corner than Dunta is and he's getting better which is something our corners rarely did under Hoke. Our rookies are playing well all things considered and while it may be too late for Fred Bennett I think Molden just might turn it around. I'm certain we'll be looking at a first day corner in the 2010 draft. There's not a doubt in my mind we'll be doing that because Dunta will be leaving.

I'm still convinced that a small mountain of gold couldn't keep Dunta in Houston past this contract. I remain sure that he wants out of town as soon as possible. Short of grossly overpaying him for a second straight season there's no way of forcing him to stay and why would we?

Grab a rookie in the second or third round to pair with Reeves and see if Quinn or one of the guys we currently have rises up to keep that rookie in the nickel. Let Dunta go get too much money from Dan Snyder or Al Davis or some other dumbshit.

TimeKiller
11-17-2009, 01:44 PM
I don't feel that that is true so much anymore. He's aggressive, but when you compare him to the other 10 guys on the field during a run play, he is the most consistently out of position. He takes bad angles and exhibits poor tackling habits.
I don't know about that but I have seen him pull up on a play a few seconds too early kind of a lot this year. Play to the echo of the whistle, I don't care if it's 50 yards away...someone's payin' me 10 mil I'll at least jog after a play.

He's better than servicable. DRob is a legit to very good #2 starter on anyone's D right now. Y'all are way underestimating his value imo. Run support is an under appreciated art for a corner, and Drob is in the top handfull in the league for run support. I know everyone wants to credit Pollard and Quinn for the run turnaround and rightly so, but Drob has been a big part of that too. I've also seen him make some plays this year in the pass game that y'all are overlooking. One in Cinci or Buff if I recall pretty much sealed the win.

Also, he is likely to get better over the last half of the season, and significantly better next year than this year. That is the nature of the type of injury he had. The blueprint is these guys aren't usually at their post injury peak until 2 full football seasons after thier injury. That is next year.

Now is he going to be a top ten corner in football like he was pre injury? I doubt he returns to that level. But I do see him returning to being an excellent #2 CB, or a decent #1. So, then it's all about the numbers. If he is willing to be somewhat reasonable, I would sign him in a NY minute. Otherwise, you are going to end up using a high and valuable draft pick on an unknown commodity, OR reach into the FA pool for someone that will cost as much or more - and oh BTW when was the last time this team picked up a true difference maker in FA? Reeves and Smith are the best of a bad lot of FA signings over the years. So, I don't see how swapping our over-priced FA for someone else's overpriced FA makes us any better.

To the #2 comment, I've said that for a while and in either replacing him or getting a real #1 guy you're going to have to spend a high pick/ton of money. If he's willing to accept #2 status I'd have him no question but I think that's a pretty big if (to him anyway) and besides, we have a good #2 in Reeves. Run support may be underappreciated but coverage sure isn't, the leader of the secondary should be able to do both at a high level.

badboy
11-17-2009, 01:58 PM
Thank god the Texans never gave in to his demands while he was holding out. He hasn't impressed me one bit this season, and he's not really going to get much better from here if he does at all. I'd be perfectly happy to let him walk after this season and try to sign possibly another CB on the market if there is a good one around.If DR wants to be a Texan next season he needs to develop some China contacts like Yao cause he is NOT earning his $.

badboy
11-17-2009, 02:01 PM
Dunta is a damn good run support corner, one of the best. He is a locker room leader as well as an on field leader. Is he the player he once was? Probably not. Hell his leg is being held together with bailing wire, some bubble gum and rubber bands, but he is still above average taking everything into consideration. And I think he is improving and might still be close to what he was with another year under his belt.

I understand your point, but I think we need to try and sign this guy, if possible, in the offseason. If he is being unreasonable again, then jettison him, but we need to make every effort to resign him. This D without Dunta is a step backwards.We have Quinn to be a good run supporter, we need someone who does not play "catch up to the receiver". Is Dunta getting more flags this season? He needs to have an excellent game against Colts.

badboy
11-17-2009, 02:14 PM
Dunta's perfectly good at corner in this league. He's never been a 1 but he's been very good as a 2 when we had a legitimate 1 on the other side. Having said that.....
That was then, this is now. I don't care for Dunta Robinson and haven't for a long time. I think he's stood out because in our short history we didn't have too many guys on our team who were "vocal leader-types" and so he's often been at the center of what little emotional wave our team was riding. He's our miniature Ray Lewis firing up the rest of the players and we all dig that except... how fired up do we usually look? How much energy does this guy generate seriously?

That he's been our favorite defensive player over the years doesn't mean he's some kind of magnificent corner. He's pretty middle of the pack and on a team with good depth in the secondary he's not vital. He's sure as hell not franchise player 9 million a year vital. Reeves is clearly a better corner than Dunta is and he's getting better which is something our corners rarely did under Hoke. Our rookies are playing well all things considered and while it may be too late for Fred Bennett I think Molden just might turn it around. I'm certain we'll be looking at a first day corner in the 2010 draft. There's not a doubt in my mind we'll be doing that because Dunta will be leaving.

I'm still convinced that a small mountain of gold couldn't keep Dunta in Houston past this contract. I remain sure that he wants out of town as soon as possible. Short of grossly overpaying him for a second straight season there's no way of forcing him to stay and why would we?

Grab a rookie in the second or third round to pair with Reeves and see if Quinn or one of the guys we currently have rises up to keep that rookie in the nickel. Let Dunta go get too much money from Dan Snyder or Al Davis or some other dumbshit.Other than Aaron Glenn what #1 CBs played opposite DR? What has made DR look good is those #2s (if that) who played opposite him. DR was a fan favorite for his hits and in your face comments. As a cover corner, he has been less than average. We have a SS to play the line, our CBs should be running with (not behind) the WR.

imatexan
11-17-2009, 02:16 PM
If we did not have Dunta this season we would not have a shot at the playoffs like we do now.

Is he worth that amount?
Probally not.

Is he very valuable?
Without a doubt.

Thorn
11-17-2009, 03:28 PM
If we did not have Dunta this season we would not have a shot at the playoffs like we do now.

Is he worth that amount?
Probally not.

Is he very valuable?
Without a doubt.

Exactly. He's not worth the money he's being paid, but if you look at who's behind him in the rotation, we need him right now. Seven more games to go and this regular season is over with, and there is no one on the team that we can play instead of him that would be any better.

Hervoyel
11-17-2009, 04:41 PM
Other than Aaron Glenn what #1 CBs played opposite DR? What has made DR look good is those #2s (if that) who played opposite him. DR was a fan favorite for his hits and in your face comments. As a cover corner, he has been less than average. We have a SS to play the line, our CBs should be running with (not behind) the WR.


Aaron Glenn was the legitimate #1 I was speaking of. Dunta has fallen short of expectations when he was given that job. He can hit when he wants to and support the run but like you said, why would you want your corners doing that all the time.

I know stats aren't the definitive way to judge a corner but in his first three seasons he averaged 86 tackles a season. In his last three (admittedly injury marred) seasons his pace was 56 tackles projected over 16 games. This is better I think. In his first few years here he was doing a lot of run stopping because we sucked at it intensely. About the time Dunta began looking less than awesome was when his role transitioned more into coverage. He's a little guy who plays like a safety and wants to be paid like a top tier corner. Pass. Thanks for the years and good luck in your future endeavors Dunta. We need another corner guys.

JB
11-17-2009, 04:59 PM
Aaron Glenn was the legitimate #1 I was speaking of. Dunta has fallen short of expectations when he was given that job. He can hit when he wants to and support the run but like you said, why would you want your corners doing that all the time.

I know stats aren't the definitive way to judge a corner but in his first three seasons he averaged 86 tackles a season. In his last three (admittedly injury marred) seasons his pace was 56 tackles projected over 16 games. This is better I think. In his first few years here he was doing a lot of run stopping because we sucked at it intensely. About the time Dunta began looking less than awesome was when his role transitioned more into coverage. He's a little guy who plays like a safety and wants to be paid like a top tier corner. Pass. Thanks for the years and good luck in your future endeavors Dunta. We need another corner guys.

QFT:goodpost:

Double Barrel
11-17-2009, 05:05 PM
I am rather ambivalent about D.Rob right now. I do not think he's worth $10 mil/year, but no regrets this season.

The question I ask myself is "if Robinson was on a division rival, how much would we fear him?". The answer - at least in my mind - is not much. I do not think he could cover AJ or OD, and I think JJ and Walter could give him a run for his money. Schaub would not be scared to throw at D.Rob's side of the field, IMO. With that said, he's just not worth the money that he thinks he's worth/owed going into 2010.

It seems obvious that he wants out of Houston. I say we fish or cut bait with the guy and move on with the progress that we are making toward a successful franchise. If all he's looking for is to get paid, good luck on the Redskins next season, D.Rob.

badboy
11-17-2009, 05:14 PM
Exactly. He's not worth the money he's being paid, but if you look at who's behind him in the rotation, we need him right now. Seven more games to go and this regular season is over with, and there is no one on the team that we can play instead of him that would be any better.This is because Smith mis-read DR and did not go for a CB in draft until 4th round. I think if he had selected a corner in 2nd (not dissing Barwin just saying)we might be doing just as well without Dunta.

Sherrod Martin Panthers CB 3 INTs so far
Darcel McBath, Sean Smith, Derek Cox, Donald Washington and about 5 others were all avail prior to Quin.

badboy
11-17-2009, 05:21 PM
Aaron Glenn was the legitimate #1 I was speaking of. Dunta has fallen short of expectations when he was given that job. He can hit when he wants to and support the run but like you said, why would you want your corners doing that all the time.

I know stats aren't the definitive way to judge a corner but in his first three seasons he averaged 86 tackles a season. In his last three (admittedly injury marred) seasons his pace was 56 tackles projected over 16 games. This is better I think. In his first few years here he was doing a lot of run stopping because we sucked at it intensely. About the time Dunta began looking less than awesome was when his role transitioned more into coverage. He's a little guy who plays like a safety and wants to be paid like a top tier corner. Pass. Thanks for the years and good luck in your future endeavors Dunta. We need another corner guys.Well said. We all like DR and if he had grabbed the long term deal offered or even took the $10m and had an excellent year (coming to camp) he would still be a fan fav. Smith mis read the situation but so did DR. McNair said he will pay those players that are worth it. Dunta, my friend, the ball is on the way to your WR. What you gonna do?

badboy
11-17-2009, 05:23 PM
I am rather ambivalent about D.Rob right now. I do not think he's worth $10 mil/year, but no regrets this season.

The question I ask myself is "if Robinson was on a division rival, how much would we fear him?". The answer - at least in my mind - is not much. I do not think he could cover AJ or OD, and I think JJ and Walter could give him a run for his money. Schaub would not be scared to throw at D.Rob's side of the field, IMO. With that said, he's just not worth the money that he thinks he's worth/owed going into 2010.

It seems obvious that he wants out of Houston. I say we fish or cut bait with the guy and move on with the progress that we are making toward a successful franchise. If all he's looking for is to get paid, good luck on the Redskins next season, D.Rob.Good post, sir.

Goatcheese
11-17-2009, 09:20 PM
D-Rob isn't a superstar, but he is top 15 out of 64 starting corners, and has been glued to the opponents #1 for most of the season. IMO this has been his best year as a pro.

Texans Corners continue their rise up the charts even after facing the Forehead.

Jacquees Reeves leaps 7 spots to 8th after giving up 33 yards on 5 targets, and 2 receptions. Most of it came on one 26 yard pass.

You read that correctly. Petey Reeves has been the 8th best cover corner in the NFL this season.

Dunta Robinson jumps 4 spots to 15th after giving up 24 yards on 4 targets and 3 receptions, with a long of 12.

D-Rob is now the 4th least thrown at starter, and Reeves is 6th. :heart:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/Week9updatedCornerStats.jpg

How scary is Philly with the 2nd and 3rd best corners?

For fun I've included a look back at previous seasons to see just how much they've improved.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/DaysofYore.jpg

silvrhand
11-17-2009, 11:45 PM
Well Barrett, we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one. Maybe he isn't elite anymore, but he is still damn good (speaking in terms of run support)

Who cares about corner run support, honestly.. how many times have you ever seen a CB get to the Hall of Fame cause he was a great run supporter? that's like saying a DL is a great coverage guy..

silvrhand
11-17-2009, 11:51 PM
D-Rob isn't a superstar, but he is top 15 out of 64 starting corners, and has been glued to the opponents #1 for most of the season. IMO this has been his best year as a pro.

Stats are misleading, there are about 5 other corners in that list that I would rather see starting for us than him. I agree he's a great #2, but honestly #2 corners in the league don't make $10 million a year.

Hervoyel
11-18-2009, 01:08 AM
Ultimately debate about how good or ordinary Dunta is or isn't won't make much difference. Love him or hate him one thing stays the same. He's going to be ridiculous money to sign after he turned down the Texans offer last year.

I could be wrong but I don't think the Texans can sign him so arguing whether or not he's "worth" signing is kind of pointless. If he wouldn't take our last offer then he's probably not going to play here next year no matter what we put on the table. Sure, make a pitch if you like Rick but you damn sure better have a backup plan ready for 2010 if and when Dunta heads for the bank.

hradhak
11-18-2009, 04:25 PM
I think what we need is another 1st round pick spent on a corner. DR has been very good for this team, and I hate to not show loyalty to a guy who got hurt playing for us. That being said, football is a business. I don't think mgmt can justify his worth 10 mil. I think he wanted the guaranteed money because deep down DR knows he wasn't that good and he may struggle getting money like that when he shows he wasn't as good as he was before the injury. If he is willing to sign for significantly less money, I say keep him on, he's an above average CB and a good #2. If he won't sign for less, let him go and spend a high draft pick on our next shutdown corner.