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ArlingtonTexan
11-16-2009, 12:28 PM
Texans owner Bob McNair offered the following assessment of his team entering the Week 10 bye: "I'm pleased with the way we're playing. I just think we're a very good team. As I've commented, we're not an elite team. There are few elite teams in the league, and we've got to eliminate some mental errors before we become an elite team. Clearly, once we do that, we will be not just a good team; we'll be an elite team. I'm pleased with that. We just have to keep making progress

http://profootballweekly.com/2009/11/14/better-pass-protection-keys-chargers-turnaround

HJam72
11-16-2009, 12:32 PM
We just need to execute. :)

disaacks3
11-16-2009, 12:33 PM
We just need to execute. :)
How many and in what order? :pop:

brakos82
11-16-2009, 12:34 PM
How many and in what order? :pop:

19, and in the order listed on the schedule would be preferred.

m5kwatts
11-16-2009, 12:43 PM
I think if we finish 8-8 Kubiak is gone, for better or worse

McNair aint playin around anymore

Hervoyel
11-16-2009, 01:02 PM
I think if we finish 8-8 Kubiak is gone, for better or worse

McNair aint playin around anymore

I think you're one year early. I think if we finish 8-8 that McNair lets Kubiak come back but next season we're in "win and go to the postseason or you're done" mode. I think McNair's got almost too much patience for his own good and he's seen enough positive out of what the coaches are doing now to let it ride another year.

Frankly I've come over to a similar position though obviously not for the same reasons that McNair might have. I don't think a great deal of Kubiak's progress as a head coach but I do think that he seems to have gotten lucky with Frank Bush. I want to see how this plays out because they've gotten better as the year has gone by and I think that with another year this defense could be special. You can go pretty darn far with just a defense.

The offense has problems though. Alex Gibbs can't make these guys run the football. Think about that for a second. Nobody is so bad that Alex Gibbs can't turn them into a running powerhouse but we can't run the football. I think this, added to the fact that Baby Shanahan is calling the plays really hurts us but the good news is that it is fixable.

For starters if his job is on the line and the defense is playing well I think Kubiak is smart enough to turn back to the offense and get things straightened out.

Second I think we're probably going to see the arrival of a real franchise back very soon. Running the ball is too important to this offense to just blow it off like we've been doing this year. Steve Slaton, as much as I love watching this guy run the football is headed for permanent third down back status. I expect out of just plain survival instinct Kubiak is going to draft a running back next year if we fall to 8-8 or lower this year. That's particularly true if the reason we fail is the offense (his so-called "specialty").

I guess then I think I want Kubiak back another year to see what becomes of Frank Bush "DC" and because I think that IF the defense is more or less done with just "coming together" and maybe one or two pieces left we're finally going to draft that back who makes other teams spend all week preparing to get embarrassed. You add one of those guys to what we already have and Gary isn't going to have to be the perfect head coach to win.

And if he fires him I have no faith that McNair will find someone better. More than likely he'll hire someone "proven" but done winning and in decline. That seems to be our M.O. here. I think we're in so deep now with this regime we should just hang in there one more season if this one doesn't work out.

El Tejano
11-16-2009, 01:06 PM
I think if we finish 8-8 Kubiak is gone, for better or worse

McNair aint playin around anymore

Certainly sounds like it huh?

Tailgate
11-16-2009, 01:08 PM
We have one of, if not THE youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I'd say that speaks volumes on the mental errors and inconsistency. We are one more off season away imo from truly taking that next step to elite status. Interior O-line, RB, true DT to spot next to Okoye, and some improvements in secondary will get us there I think.

I have no doubt we are on the right path... STILL.

bckey
11-16-2009, 03:12 PM
We hear the same thing every year. We need another year. It is getting old and tired already at 8 years in. I don't think McNair should keep Kubiak if we go 8-8 or less. We can still get a new head coach and keep Bush and the defensive staff.

thunderkyss
11-16-2009, 03:27 PM
We have one of, if not THE youngest starting lineup in the NFL. I'd say that speaks volumes on the mental errors and inconsistency. We are one more off season away imo from truly taking that next step to elite status. Interior O-line, RB, true DT to spot next to Okoye, and some improvements in secondary will get us there I think.

I have no doubt we are on the right path... STILL.

We're also training offensive co-ordinators, defensive co-ordinators, OL coaches, DL coaches, Secondary coaches, running back coaches..... GMs, & probably the whole personnel department.

I find it hard to believe that McNair has given so much to Kubiak that just about every facet of this organization is being done "his way"

I know I'm speculating, but what if Sherman & Richard Smith were "anchors" McNair forced on Kubiak, (not those guys specifically, but the roles they played) & the Kubiak clock didn't start until last year? Or even this year?

You can see we were doing things differently with Sherman & Smith... & now, we're doing it more in line with what was going on in Denver... the way you'd think Kubiak would have done it from the get go. At least that's my take on it.

It's not just the way this organization is changing on the field, but off the field as well. I don't think McNair would be silly enough to throw that all away.

DexmanC
11-16-2009, 03:30 PM
It sure did hurt watching both Manning AND Brady quick-snap the ball
on close plays to avoid the red flag.

DexmanC
11-16-2009, 03:52 PM
Texans owner Bob McNair offered the following assessment of his team entering the Week 10 bye: "I'm pleased with the way we're playing. I just think we're a very good team. As I've commented, we're not an elite team. There are few elite teams in the league, and we've got to eliminate some mental errors before we become an elite team. Clearly, once we do that, we will be not just a good team; we'll be an elite team. I'm pleased with that. We just have to keep making progress.


We're also training offensive co-ordinators, defensive co-ordinators, OL coaches, DL coaches, Secondary coaches, running back coaches..... GMs, & probably the whole personnel department.

I find it hard to believe that McNair has given so much to Kubiak that just about every facet of this organization is being done "his way"

I know I'm speculating, but what if Sherman & Richard Smith were "anchors" McNair forced on Kubiak, (not those guys specifically, but the roles they played) & the Kubiak clock didn't start until last year? Or even this year?

You can see we were doing things differently with Sherman & Smith... & now, we're doing it more in line with what was going on in Denver... the way you'd think Kubiak would have done it from the get go. At least that's my take on it.

It's not just the way this organization is changing on the field, but off the field as well. I don't think McNair would be silly enough to throw that all away.

I believe Mcnair has more-than-made-it-clear, that he's building this team
for sustained, LONG-TERM success. However, there's a high learning for that
goal. He tried to go with the guy with a "proven" track record, Casserly,
and a coach with "proven" success with a franchise team, Capers. We,
as Texans fans, witnessed the most inept, futile, "are they an NFL team" crap
football we've ever seen for FOUR STRAIGHT YEARS.

Mcnair then makes a move that most of us don't talk about. He brought in
a border-line hall-of-fame coach, Dan Reeves, to evaluate the Texans
organization from the very top to the very bottom. When Casserly and
Capers left, the WHOLE ORGANIZATION was overhauled. New GM, new
scouts, new coordinators, new coaches, new players. Reeves led the
Broncos, early in the Elway years, to the superbowl. I don't think it's
by accident we got most of the youth from that organization injected
directly into the veins of the Texans.

As long as they are making progress, we will continue on this path. The
Bengals could have canned Marvin Lewis under similar circumstances as
Kubiak, but they didn't. Now, they're 7-2 with Benson and LJ at the
runningback position. They have swept the team that gave them
the most problems over the last few seasons, and are sitting pretty
with a bye week in the first round of the playoffs.

The process hasn't failed yet, and I ain't for scrapping it until it does.

Marcus
11-16-2009, 04:58 PM
I'd say that going strictly from McNair's assessment, unless we do a nose dive the rest of the season, which I really don't see happening, it looks like he's satisfied that he's got the right people to do the job, from Smith, Kubiak, to Bush on down. If indeed he's patient to a fault, I'd much rather have that than an owner that's impatient to a fault.

We hear the same thing every year. We need another year. It is getting old and tired already at 8 years in. I don't think McNair should keep Kubiak if we go 8-8 or less. We can still get a new head coach and keep Bush and the defensive staff.

It doesn't work that way. If you hire a new head coach, that new head coach will want to bring in his own people. In other words, start over.

I can't see McNair doing that, not with the assessment he just made.

Insideop
11-16-2009, 05:07 PM
We hear the same thing every year. We need another year. It is getting old and tired already at 8 years in. I don't think McNair should keep Kubiak if we go 8-8 or less. We can still get a new head coach and keep Bush and the defensive staff.

You make it sound like Kubiak's fault for the first 4 years. This team and coaching staff are light years ahead of that bunch. And remember, Kubes and Smith had to completely rebuild this team. If you fire the staff at the end of the season you're looking at starting over again! JMHO!

TexCanada
11-16-2009, 05:18 PM
I can't imagine why people would want to see Kubes and his staff gone. I mean, surely everybody agrees that we are improving as a team. Most people will even agree that this is the best Texans team ever. If we slide to an 8-8 record this year again, I would be more than willing to give this staff another shot. We have shown improvements, and it doesn't always translate to wins right away.

That being said, I really don't think we will end up with less than 9 wins. We are only a player or two away from becoming a really good team, I say give Kubes at least one more year to work with what he's building. It would be unfortunate for him to have a Gruden situation where a new coach comes in enjoys the benefits of someone else's work.

Vinny
11-16-2009, 05:21 PM
Overall I like the direction the franchise is heading and I think this team has assembled some talent to compete. What I'm not sure about is if Kubiak is a top tier HC. I'm pretty convinced that any number of coaches could take the existing talent and produce .500 seasons. I think there are a lot of coaches that are better motivational guys. I also think there are tons of coaches who are better game managers/strategists. I'm ok with Kubiak if he can push past .500 and I'm comfortable enough with the team's character, characters, and talent level to give Kubiak a little more patience in lieu of how well they have played the last month or so. One caveat however - I'm sick of never having a winning season also, so my patience is really only good if this team continues to rise during the last half of the season. Otherwise, I'd like us to make a move while the core talent is young.

bckey
11-16-2009, 05:27 PM
I didn't say anything was Kubiaks fault. All I said was it gets old and tired hearing wait till next year. And if we go 8-8 or worse I think Kubiak should get the axe.

It is funny how at the beginning of the season fans will say one thing and then when it doesn't happen the excuses begin. Everyone was playoffs or bust and now it is we are so much better that next year we can be an elite team.

You can hire a new head coach and keep the same defensive staff. It isn't the norm but it happens. Look, I like Kubiak. This whole argument may be moot. If we go on to have a winning record then I think for sure Kubiak stays. I'm not a hater. But please don't start making excuses in case things go south.

Double Barrel
11-16-2009, 05:32 PM
I don't know why, but I honestly think Kubiak has this team in 2010 regardless of what happens this season. The team has already showed enough improvement in terms of talent and playcalling. Reading McNair's words, it's the players making mistakes that are costing us games. And last I checked, Kubiak is not throwing a uni on.

The owner states that we are just mental errors away from being an elite team. That sounds like he's blaming the players and not the head coach to me.

(I'm not saying that I agree/disagree with keeping Kubiak, but just my take on reading McNair's words.)

m5kwatts
11-16-2009, 05:55 PM
I think you're one year early. I think if we finish 8-8 that McNair lets Kubiak come back but next season we're in "win and go to the postseason or you're done" mode. I think McNair's got almost too much patience for his own good and he's seen enough positive out of what the coaches are doing now to let it ride another year.

Frankly I've come over to a similar position though obviously not for the same reasons that McNair might have. I don't think a great deal of Kubiak's progress as a head coach but I do think that he seems to have gotten lucky with Frank Bush. I want to see how this plays out because they've gotten better as the year has gone by and I think that with another year this defense could be special. You can go pretty darn far with just a defense.

The offense has problems though. Alex Gibbs can't make these guys run the football. Think about that for a second. Nobody is so bad that Alex Gibbs can't turn them into a running powerhouse but we can't run the football. I think this, added to the fact that Baby Shanahan is calling the plays really hurts us but the good news is that it is fixable.

For starters if his job is on the line and the defense is playing well I think Kubiak is smart enough to turn back to the offense and get things straightened out.

Second I think we're probably going to see the arrival of a real franchise back very soon. Running the ball is too important to this offense to just blow it off like we've been doing this year. Steve Slaton, as much as I love watching this guy run the football is headed for permanent third down back status. I expect out of just plain survival instinct Kubiak is going to draft a running back next year if we fall to 8-8 or lower this year. That's particularly true if the reason we fail is the offense (his so-called "specialty").

I guess then I think I want Kubiak back another year to see what becomes of Frank Bush "DC" and because I think that IF the defense is more or less done with just "coming together" and maybe one or two pieces left we're finally going to draft that back who makes other teams spend all week preparing to get embarrassed. You add one of those guys to what we already have and Gary isn't going to have to be the perfect head coach to win.

And if he fires him I have no faith that McNair will find someone better. More than likely he'll hire someone "proven" but done winning and in decline. That seems to be our M.O. here. I think we're in so deep now with this regime we should just hang in there one more season if this one doesn't work out.

I don't think we'd fire Kubiak and go lame duck into head coaching free agency and expect to reel in a big fish. He'd only do it if he had a good idea of who the replacement should be and a good idea as to whether the replacement would accept the job. The Texans are 10x better a head coaching job than they were when Kubiak took it. The job would be sought after and like any owner does when looking for a head coach, McNair would poke around as to who has interest.

Otherwise I believe McNair believes Kubiak is the guy to take us to the promise land even if the 8-8 thing is getting redundant. Right now, I don't think he even knows who will coach next year. The 2nd half of the season will decide that. Depending on how things unfold.

Second Honeymoon
11-16-2009, 06:20 PM
Barring a complete meltdown for better or worse, Kubiak is back in 2010 and probably with a new contract last through 2012.

Bush has done a good job with his on-the-job training and the offense has improved in the red zone. The turnovers are still there but that isn't on the coaches or GM for the most part. Kubiak still is horrible at clock management and making decisions quickly but hopefully he can get better at that. I am just waiting for the day that Kubiak actually outcoaches someone and when he can get his team to play 4 quarters consistently. The best he has done with that was the Bengals game this year. That win looks better and better.

My biggest problem with him now is his inability to think on the fly. He blew it with not having snapped the ball at the end of the half v. the Colts. That was his one opportunity to outcoach someone and he blew it.

Marcus
11-16-2009, 06:28 PM
I didn't say anything was Kubiaks fault. All I said was it gets old and tired hearing wait till next year. And if we go 8-8 or worse I think Kubiak should get the axe.

It is funny how at the beginning of the season fans will say one thing and then when it doesn't happen the excuses begin. Everyone was playoffs or bust and now it is we are so much better that next year we can be an elite team.

You can hire a new head coach and keep the same defensive staff. It isn't the norm but it happens. Look, I like Kubiak. This whole argument may be moot. If we go on to have a winning record then I think for sure Kubiak stays. I'm not a hater. But please don't start making excuses in case things go south.

That would all depend on the reason why things went south, in case they go south. McNair himself said before the season began that he expected a winning season, and the coach's job could be in jeopardy if it didn't happen. He also said that it could be from circumstances beyond his control, such as injuries, etc.

So, in my mind, if he's allowed to make excuses, I don't know why the fans shouldn't be allowed to.

NitroGSXR
11-16-2009, 07:23 PM
I don't know why, but I honestly think Kubiak has this team in 2010 regardless of what happens this season. The team has already showed enough improvement in terms of talent and playcalling. Reading McNair's words, it's the players making mistakes that are costing us games. And last I checked, Kubiak is not throwing a uni on.

The owner states that we are just mental errors away from being an elite team. That sounds like he's blaming the players and not the head coach to me.

(I'm not saying that I agree/disagree with keeping Kubiak, but just my take on reading McNair's words.)

Let's be fair to the players some. Kubiak gas had his share of costly mental errors. The motioning for Schaub to come off the field for the two minute warning comes to mind. It's not all on the players. We're making mental mistakes all across the board.

DexmanC
11-16-2009, 07:39 PM
I wonder if fans actually watch the games. I keep hearing "Kubiak doesn't
motivate his players." Are you kidding me? The '08 season started as
a DISASTER, both natural and on the field. The Texans were 0-4, then
won 3 straight to go 3-4, then lost THREE STRAIGHT GAMES to fall to
3-7.

There's a video on HoustonTexans.com, posted after the second game
in Indy, where the Texans lost another heartbreaker to fall to 3-7. Andre
Johnson was on the podium saying Kubiak told his team after that loss.
"I'm going to Cleveland to get a win. Are you all in?" Those players had
his back. Eric Winston, during that time, was on the radio EVERY WEEK,
and the LAST thing he wanted was for Kubiak to be ousted.

Dunta Robinson, when quoted, would say something to the effect of, "Coach
Kubiak is the right man for the job. There are certain people AROUND Kubiak
they may be a problem (Richard Smith,) but Kubiak is the right man."

After they fell to 3-7, Kubiak reportedly began supervising the Defensive
Meetings. He'll never admit it publicly, but the defense performed
DRASTICALLY better than anything we'd seen up 'till that point. When
you're 3-7, you're essentially playing for pride. Most teams, if they didn't
believe in their coach (Jacksonville Jaguars of '08,) would flat out quit.

The Texans won 4 in a row, to even their record at 7-7. So, if Kubiak wasn't
the "motivator," why didn't this team quit under his watch? As a matter of
fact, their last game is another example of what I'm talking about. You go
INTO Indianapolis, get down 10-0, the refs find EVERY way to stick it to you,
AND you have to face Peyton Manning. I've NEVER, under Kubiak, SEEN
THIS TEAM QUIT!! They fight, and claw, and scratch, and do EVERYTHING
they can to win. However, they don't have the grace that EXPERIENCED
teams have. Many of you would rather this team be blown up, than be
allowed to grow together. Thank God our owner is smarter than that. I'd
rather have a team of drafted talent, than one filled with high-priced
mercenaries.

DexmanC
11-16-2009, 07:44 PM
Let's be fair to the players some. Kubiak has had his share of costly mental errors. The motioning for Schaub to come off the field for the two minute warning comes to mind. It's not all on the players. We're making mental mistakes all across the board.

None bigger than the one Belichick had last night! Damn, that
was stupid.

thunderkyss
11-16-2009, 08:04 PM
McNair himself said before the season began that he expected a winning season, and the coach's job could be in jeopardy if it didn't happen.

I'd like to see a link.

I know McNair says that he expects play-offs this season. People inferred all that other stuff, because he never said "Kubiak is safe".

I don't think he ever said that Kubiak's job could be in jeopardy, even though everyone tried to corner him into saying so.

Lucky
11-16-2009, 10:31 PM
It's too early to make blanket statements regarding Kubiak's future. Right now, the Texans are in the mix. For the first time. Ever. We (including Bob McNair) will learn a lot about this team and coaching staff over the next 7 games. Whatever we are thinking now could change.

Win these next three games, and everything this team thinks about itself could change. It would be that "confidence piece" that Tony Dungy was referring to in the preseason. I believe the star players on this team want to win. Are committed to winning. And that's why I think the Texans will finish the season with a playoff berth in hand.

beerlover
11-17-2009, 03:25 AM
at least he's not flipping the bird like another owner in the news (Goodell fines Titans owner $250,000 for gesture)

here is a simple question, really it is.... Texans better off as an expansion franchise or when Kubiak became Head Coach?

nunusguy
11-17-2009, 07:05 AM
I disagree with McNairs basic assessment: I think we're a good team with the potential to be a very good team, but an elite team ? We are some measure away from from being what I consider an "elite team".
I saw McNair commenting on the teams midseason progress on Channel 13 the other day and he said basically the same thing, except what struck me was he elaborated somewhat beyond these remarks but with no real support let alone praise of Kubiak. I found that very itneresting ?
With the finishing schedule what it is (challenging to say the least), we can still end up at less than 500 or on the other hand with maybe 10 wins and in postseason competition. The success/failure of the 2009 season is still very much an open question, as is Kubiak continued employment in Houston beyond the 2009 season ?

DexmanC
11-17-2009, 09:16 AM
Bottom line:
The Texans now have the ability to beat ANY TEAM in the NFL.
This is the first season we've been able to say so, and since the
addition of Pollard (the first REAL strong safety in our history,) our defense
has performed as a top 5 defense. Our offense is already top 5. There
are only two things keeping this team from being "elite."

1. Experience

2. Costly Mental Errors (also attributable to experience)

Under Kubiak, this team has ALWAYS performed better than many other
teams in the second half of the season. They've finally put themselves in
a position, where a 5-2, 6-1 streak to close the season will ACTUALLY MATTER.

When calling this team an 8-year loser, please leave Kubiak's four years out
of it. He's only had 1 losing season, and that was with many Casserly/Capers
holdovers still on the team. Since then, our talent level has dramatically
increased, and NO LOSING SEASONS. When your team starts 3-7, like
they did last year, and finishes 5-1 to AVOID a losing season, that shows
character. This year, they are much more talented, and HUNGRY. Guess
what folks, they didn't start 3-7. Until I see a Kubiak-led team quit, he's
my coach for the Texans. I'd rather him learn to be a coach, then succeed
here, than for him to have his best coaching years somewhere else.

That's what Bud Adams did for Fisher, and what the Rooney Family did
for Cowher. Do you guys remember all the "hotseat" talk that when around
Bill Cowher until he FINALLY won a Superbowl? The Rooney Family had
NONE of it. He learned to coach, and BECAME a good coach UNDER THE
SAME ORGANIZATION. I believe Kubiak will SOME DAY be a great coach.
He learns from his mistakes, and adjusts. When we couldn't get 1-yard
in a crowded formation at the goal line, he learned to spread the formation
out and run the ball.

He's having his coaches "self-scout" during the bye week, to look for the
best ways to use his personnel. Kubiak is on the right track, and under his
lead, this team is well on its way to becoming one of the best teams in the
NFL.

So, when talking about the 8-year suckage of the Texans, leave Kubiak out
of it.

Malloy
11-17-2009, 11:12 AM
I didn't say anything was Kubiaks fault. All I said was it gets old and tired hearing wait till next year. And if we go 8-8 or worse I think Kubiak should get the axe.

It is funny how at the beginning of the season fans will say one thing and then when it doesn't happen the excuses begin. Everyone was playoffs or bust and now it is we are so much better that next year we can be an elite team.

You can hire a new head coach and keep the same defensive staff. It isn't the norm but it happens. Look, I like Kubiak. This whole argument may be moot. If we go on to have a winning record then I think for sure Kubiak stays. I'm not a hater. But please don't start making excuses in case things go south.

Please leave me out of it.

I really hate those generalizing posts...

Malloy
11-17-2009, 11:16 AM
I'd like to see a link.

I know McNair says that he expects play-offs this season. People inferred all that other stuff, because he never said "Kubiak is safe".

I don't think he ever said that Kubiak's job could be in jeopardy, even though everyone tried to corner him into saying so.

For what its worth I remember reading what Marcus quoted. Cant remember where though, Ht.com or the chronic?

Texans_Chick
11-17-2009, 12:24 PM
It sure did hurt watching both Manning AND Brady quick-snap the ball
on close plays to avoid the red flag.

The Brady quick snap may have been costly. He burnt a down on a nothing sneak, and the play wasn't going to be overturned.

barrett
11-17-2009, 12:31 PM
what was the result of the drive though. I can't remember. If he burned a snap and they ended up getting a first down then it was a smart play. It's like running on third and long. It may not get results in the moment but it could be considered the smart play in that situation.

OzzO
11-17-2009, 12:43 PM
I'd like to see a link.

I know McNair says that he expects play-offs this season. People inferred all that other stuff, because he never said "Kubiak is safe".

I don't think he ever said that Kubiak's job could be in jeopardy, even though everyone tried to corner him into saying so.

Search button is a wonderful thing.... for those that wanna see the "playoffs or bust" thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62532&highlight=mcnair) for those that started with "all the way" then supposedly switching to "eh, improvement"...

which, in that one - post #58 leads to a thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61183&highlight=kubes)of what McNair said.

(and I didn't read the threads linked, just searched.)

thunderkyss
11-17-2009, 01:36 PM
Search button is a wonderful thing.... for those that wanna see the "playoffs or bust" thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62532&highlight=mcnair) for those that started with "all the way" then supposedly switching to "eh, improvement"...

which, in that one - post #58 leads to a thread (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=61183&highlight=kubes)of what McNair said.

(and I didn't read the threads linked, just searched.)

The link proves my point. He doesn't say that Kubiak is in trouble, although that can be inferred from the linked aritcle..... which just happens to be in the "truth or rumor" section. The article states that McNair is expecting a play-off appearance, and a stronger start than what we've had in the past.

McNair didn't say anything about what would happen if we didn't start strong, or if we didn't make the play-offs.

BigBull17
11-17-2009, 02:03 PM
I wonder if fans actually watch the games. I keep hearing "Kubiak doesn't
motivate his players." Are you kidding me? The '08 season started as
a DISASTER, both natural and on the field. The Texans were 0-4, then
won 3 straight to go 3-4, then lost THREE STRAIGHT GAMES to fall to
3-7.

There's a video on HoustonTexans.com, posted after the second game
in Indy, where the Texans lost another heartbreaker to fall to 3-7. Andre
Johnson was on the podium saying Kubiak told his team after that loss.
"I'm going to Cleveland to get a win. Are you all in?" Those players had
his back. Eric Winston, during that time, was on the radio EVERY WEEK,
and the LAST thing he wanted was for Kubiak to be ousted.

Dunta Robinson, when quoted, would say something to the effect of, "Coach
Kubiak is the right man for the job. There are certain people AROUND Kubiak
they may be a problem (Richard Smith,) but Kubiak is the right man."

After they fell to 3-7, Kubiak reportedly began supervising the Defensive
Meetings. He'll never admit it publicly, but the defense performed
DRASTICALLY better than anything we'd seen up 'till that point. When
you're 3-7, you're essentially playing for pride. Most teams, if they didn't
believe in their coach (Jacksonville Jaguars of '08,) would flat out quit.

The Texans won 4 in a row, to even their record at 7-7. So, if Kubiak wasn't
the "motivator," why didn't this team quit under his watch? As a matter of
fact, their last game is another example of what I'm talking about. You go
INTO Indianapolis, get down 10-0, the refs find EVERY way to stick it to you,
AND you have to face Peyton Manning. I've NEVER, under Kubiak, SEEN
THIS TEAM QUIT!! They fight, and claw, and scratch, and do EVERYTHING
they can to win. However, they don't have the grace that EXPERIENCED
teams have. Many of you would rather this team be blown up, than be
allowed to grow together. Thank God our owner is smarter than that. I'd
rather have a team of drafted talent, than one filled with high-priced
mercenaries.

Also, look how many times he has fallen behind. Sometimes by alot. His players never ,ail it in, they never quit. That can't be underestimated.

Double Barrel
11-17-2009, 02:06 PM
Let's be fair to the players some. Kubiak gas had his share of costly mental errors. The motioning for Schaub to come off the field for the two minute warning comes to mind. It's not all on the players. We're making mental mistakes all across the board.

Kubiak does not play the game. He's made mistakes, but no head coach is perfect. The coaches have done a pretty good job overall of putting the players in positions to succeed.

I can point out several player mistakes that clearly cost us chances to win this season. Those errors are not the fault of the coaching staff.

The two minute situation is being overplayed by fans. The ruling on the field was in our favor, so there was nothing to indicate that we needed to rush a play to avoid a review. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Besides, Kubiak did not miss the kick. That is yet another player mistake that kept us from having a chance to win it.

bckey
11-17-2009, 06:29 PM
Please leave me out of it.

I really hate those generalizing posts...

Believe me Malloy, I never considered you in it.

thunderkyss
11-17-2009, 08:03 PM
Kubiak does not play the game. He's made mistakes, but no head coach is perfect. The coaches have done a pretty good job overall of putting the players in positions to succeed.

I can point out several player mistakes that clearly cost us chances to win this season. Those errors are not the fault of the coaching staff.


We don't need to make this a coach vs player thing.

Our coach has made many mistakes, questionabe calls, and goofy challenges the last 3-4 years.

I'm on Kubiak's side, & I hope McNair gives him an extension before the end of this season.... overall, he's turning this into a winning franchise.

But, I'm a little upset, that he wasn't ready. He had been an assistant coach for a long time, worked with some of the greats, he's been there done that..... applied for this job, and was told he wasn't ready.. then he comes back, & says "Bob was right, but I'm ready now"

But you know he wasn't..

I'm fine with that...... now, but I've pulled out quite a bit of hair over the last 3 years.

bckey
11-19-2009, 03:24 PM
We don't need to make this a coach vs player thing.

Our coach has made many mistakes, questionabe calls, and goofy challenges the last 3-4 years.

I'm on Kubiak's side, & I hope McNair gives him an extension before the end of this season.... overall, he's turning this into a winning franchise.

But, I'm a little upset, that he wasn't ready. He had been an assistant coach for a long time, worked with some of the greats, he's been there done that..... applied for this job, and was told he wasn't ready.. then he comes back, & says "Bob was right, but I'm ready now"

But you know he wasn't..

I'm fine with that...... now, but I've pulled out quite a bit of hair over the last 3 years.


I think Thunderkyss is spot on here. I'm a fan of Kubiak and I was all for his hiring. But I'm not so sure about giving him an extension until we see how this season plays out. I really think the Texans turnaround has more to do with Bush and our defense than with anything Kubiak has done this year. And I'll admit that I was ready to run Bush outta town after watching the defense in preseason and the first 3 games of the season.

Vinny and Hervoyel brought up a good point a while back that is valid to this argument. Rookie owner, rookie gm, rookie hc, rookie dc and rookie oc. Alot of the aggrivating mistakes can be attributed to this in one way or another. I really hope the Texans manage a 9 win or better season and this becomes a no brainer decision to keep Kubiak.

DexmanC
11-19-2009, 04:05 PM
I think Thunderkyss is spot on here. I'm a fan of Kubiak and I was all for his hiring. But I'm not so sure about giving him an extension until we see how this season plays out. I really think the Texans turnaround has more to do with Bush and our defense than with anything Kubiak has done this year. And I'll admit that I was ready to run Bush outta town after watching the defense in preseason and the first 3 games of the season.

Vinny and Hervoyel brought up a good point a while back that is valid to this argument. Rookie owner, rookie gm, rookie hc, rookie dc and rookie oc. Alot of the aggrivating mistakes can be attributed to this in one way or another. I really hope the Texans manage a 9 win or better season and this becomes a no brainer decision to keep Kubiak.

I have to disagree with that statement. Kubiak's effect on this team has
been cumulative. To say Kubiak had NOTHING to do with the turnaround of
this team would minimize the overall big picture.

First of all, our offense used to make the Cleveland Browns look like the
Colts. Kubiak got them to middle-of-the-pack in his first season, and
they've been in the top 5 in yardage for the last two years running. He
would have hired Frank Bush to run the defense from the beginning, but
Dennis Green wouldn't let him go. The defense becoming one of the
elite defenses in the NFL, is only a credit to Kubiak. Our offense is ALREADY
top 10, and Bush is only shoring up our achille's heel.

It seems that the defense won't only be competent, but it will also reach
the level our offense has already been at. Getting this team to where we
want to go is a TEAM effort. Kubes relies on his assistants, and even
gives them credit pubicly. A head coach, is only as good as his supporting
cast, no matter what Belichick tells ya.

infantrycak
11-19-2009, 04:21 PM
I really think the Texans turnaround has more to do with Bush and our defense than with anything Kubiak has done this year.

Can't have it both ways. When the D was sucking early people were saying Kubiak had to fall since Bush was clearly Kubiak's guy. If Bush is the big reason for improvement, then he's still Kubiak's guy.

Double Barrel
11-19-2009, 04:22 PM
We don't need to make this a coach vs player thing.

Our coach has made many mistakes, questionabe calls, and goofy challenges the last 3-4 years.


It's not a player vs. coach thing, and it's not about the last 3-4 years. The owner was talking about this season.

I can think of several player mistakes that have cost us wins this year, and not really many clear examples of coaching decisions costing us games. People want to point to the Moats fumble in the Colts game, but the ruling was in our favor and even the Colts were not looking to review it until the two minute warning gave them a chance.

If anything, I think the coaching and players have improved, and with the exception of the mistakes on the field, we would be considered an 'elite team' right now.

bckey
11-19-2009, 04:55 PM
Can't have it both ways. When the D was sucking early people were saying Kubiak had to fall since Bush was clearly Kubiak's guy. If Bush is the big reason for improvement, then he's still Kubiak's guy.

Not trying to have it both ways. I like Kubiak. All I'm saying is that I believe Bush and the defense have more to do with where we are at this point in the season than Kubiaks coaching or the offense. It doesn't mean I'm down on either.

infantrycak
11-19-2009, 05:27 PM
Not trying to have it both ways. I like Kubiak. All I'm saying is that I believe Bush and the defense have more to do with where we are at this point in the season than Kubiaks coaching or the offense. It doesn't mean I'm down on either.

Sorry, I should have labelled that more clearly as a spin off of your comment to one generally about folks blasting Kubiak for hiring Bush early in the season.

bckey
11-19-2009, 05:49 PM
No problem. I do think this team is finally heading in the right direction. I get those same feelings I used to get when the Oilers were good. You knew they could beat anybody but you just hoped they didn't do something to screw it up. This team looks like it is shaping up to be something more special if a few more pieces fall into place and we don't lose valuable players via free agency. I really like this defense. Cushing and Pollard have changed the entire mentality of this defense. You can't help but get excited. I will be the first to admit that I was wrong about Bush early on. I was too impatient. It was driving me nuts watching opposing rbs bust long ones on us weekly.

infantrycak
11-19-2009, 06:06 PM
You knew they could beat anybody but you just hoped they didn't do something to screw it up.

Had that conversation with my wife before the Indy game. They can beat anyone and you can expect them to give anyone a good game, it's just hard to predict them winning because they don't play consistently. Maybe we need a consistency thread - get beyond the W - L and see if we more blame it on the coaches or the players. I know many folks like to lay everything at the doorstep of the coaches but there are two pieces to the equation..

thunderkyss
11-19-2009, 07:45 PM
Had that conversation with my wife before the Indy game. They can beat anyone and you can expect them to give anyone a good game, it's just hard to predict them winning because they don't play consistently. Maybe we need a consistency thread - get beyond the W - L and see if we more blame it on the coaches or the players. I know many folks like to lay everything at the doorstep of the coaches but there are two pieces to the equation..

While we're going there..... have we beat anyone we shouldn't have?

You know, everyone has their season predictions, with wins & loses... Did we win any game that anyone chalked up as a loss yet?

bckey
11-19-2009, 08:30 PM
I would say that most had us beating the Jets and losing to the Titans in Tennessee. So maybe 1 game. Even the upcoming Indy game alot said we could take em at home. IMHO the only games left that the Texans are not supposed to be sure winners are Indy and New England. Seattle could be one because our teams just don't know each other. New England depends on if they have wrapped up all they can by that game or not as so many have pointed out. Maybe by then our defense is so good it doesn't matter if New Englands needs a win or not. Miami was a game that scared me until Ronnie Brown went on IR.

bckey
11-19-2009, 08:38 PM
I have to disagree with that statement. Kubiak's effect on this team has been cumulative. To say Kubiak had NOTHING to do with the turnaround of
this team would minimize the overall big picture.

Kubiak has everything to do with our turnaround. I'm talking about this year. Actually our offense was more balanced and better last year for whatever reason. This year has been turned around because of our defense imho. How many games has our offense lost this year? And how many games has our defense lost?

NitroGSXR
11-19-2009, 08:43 PM
Kubiak does not play the game. He's made mistakes, but no head coach is perfect. The coaches have done a pretty good job overall of putting the players in positions to succeed.

I can point out several player mistakes that clearly cost us chances to win this season. Those errors are not the fault of the coaching staff.

The two minute situation is being overplayed by fans. The ruling on the field was in our favor, so there was nothing to indicate that we needed to rush a play to avoid a review. Hindsight is always 20/20.

Besides, Kubiak did not miss the kick. That is yet another player mistake that kept us from having a chance to win it.

And no player is perfect. All i'm saying is that a head coach plays the entire football game. There's little margin for error. That two minute warning thing is being overblown because it's yet another one of Kubiack's challenge miscues. He was not the one throwing the flag but he was the one trying to stop Schaub from doing what he was supposed to do which was to snap the football. Don't get me wrong. I'm not on the fire Kubiak bandwagon. Just saying plenty of blame to share, player and coaching wise.

DocBar
11-19-2009, 10:00 PM
I think you're one year early. I think if we finish 8-8 that McNair lets Kubiak come back but next season we're in "win and go to the postseason or you're done" mode. I think McNair's got almost too much patience for his own good and he's seen enough positive out of what the coaches are doing now to let it ride another year.

Frankly I've come over to a similar position though obviously not for the same reasons that McNair might have. I don't think a great deal of Kubiak's progress as a head coach but I do think that he seems to have gotten lucky with Frank Bush. I want to see how this plays out because they've gotten better as the year has gone by and I think that with another year this defense could be special. You can go pretty darn far with just a defense.

The offense has problems though. Alex Gibbs can't make these guys run the football. Think about that for a second. Nobody is so bad that Alex Gibbs can't turn them into a running powerhouse but we can't run the football. I think this, added to the fact that Baby Shanahan is calling the plays really hurts us but the good news is that it is fixable.

For starters if his job is on the line and the defense is playing well I think Kubiak is smart enough to turn back to the offense and get things straightened out.

Second I think we're probably going to see the arrival of a real franchise back very soon. Running the ball is too important to this offense to just blow it off like we've been doing this year. Steve Slaton, as much as I love watching this guy run the football is headed for permanent third down back status. I expect out of just plain survival instinct Kubiak is going to draft a running back next year if we fall to 8-8 or lower this year. That's particularly true if the reason we fail is the offense (his so-called "specialty").

I guess then I think I want Kubiak back another year to see what becomes of Frank Bush "DC" and because I think that IF the defense is more or less done with just "coming together" and maybe one or two pieces left we're finally going to draft that back who makes other teams spend all week preparing to get embarrassed. You add one of those guys to what we already have and Gary isn't going to have to be the perfect head coach to win.

And if he fires him I have no faith that McNair will find someone better. More than likely he'll hire someone "proven" but done winning and in decline. That seems to be our M.O. here. I think we're in so deep now with this regime we should just hang in there one more season if this one doesn't work out. What a depressing post. I don't feel nearly as bad about Kubes as you do. 6th rated O in league, with no running game, and you're bitching? The lack of a running game can be accurately pointed at as a lack of execution by the OL and RBs more than a lack of coaching. If you're gonna run around hating the coach and being faithless in a very good owner, go be a Cowboy fan. We've lost some games we should've won this year, but we also have the best record we've ever had at this point in the season. I usually enjoy reading your posts, Herv, but this one pisses me off. We've only ben out of one game this year. Losing close ones sucks, but you can never win if you aren't at least close at the end of the game.

Double Barrel
11-20-2009, 10:19 AM
And no player is perfect. All i'm saying is that a head coach plays the entire football game. There's little margin for error. That two minute warning thing is being overblown because it's yet another one of Kubiack's challenge miscues. He was not the one throwing the flag but he was the one trying to stop Schaub from doing what he was supposed to do which was to snap the football. Don't get me wrong. I'm not on the fire Kubiak bandwagon. Just saying plenty of blame to share, player and coaching wise.

The other perspective to that Indy situation was to run time off the clock so we did not give Manning the ball back with two minutes on the clock. Obviously, it's not good to go into the locker room at halftime right after the other team scores. And, if that had happened, you would be here chastising Kubiak for not running time off the clock. Some folks will find fault from both angles.

The fact of the matter is that turnover ratios are one of the "true stats" in football that clearly correlate to wins and losses. Turnovers are on the players, not the coaches. And it is turnovers that are the mental errors that are costing us more than anything else this season.