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View Full Version : Anyone think we need a new head coach???


Dannyboy81
02-22-2005, 07:45 PM
Everyone knows that the texans are blessed with talent on both sides of the ball for being a three year team in the NFL. I think with all of the talent we got on offense theres no excuse to not be in the playoffs!! Capers decision calling during the game always kills me!!
I think this year is a make or break year for this guy. I love our general manager for putting a good team and a promising offense together but Capers to me is the weakest leak to the team. He'll probably be a better G.M. assitant or scout assistant but not the coach!!!!!! Anyone else think we need a new headcoach?? If so . . . who???

wiley2002
02-22-2005, 07:54 PM
Let's wait until a year from now before we start answering that question. But since you asked I'll give you my opinion. Definately not Jeff Fisher because I know there are Texans/Oilers fans alike that have just as many ill feelings towards him like they do the flaming tacs' owner.

BuffSoldier
02-22-2005, 07:55 PM
no :thumbdown

Sarg01
02-22-2005, 10:05 PM
Everyone knows that the texans are blessed with talent on both sides of the ball for being a three year team in the NFL. I think with all of the talent we got on offense theres no excuse to not be in the playoffs!!

Why don't you talk to the talent you mentioned about that? Fumblitis lost us games 2 games right from the start of this year, not Dom Capers. Then with playoffs on the line, maybe our team (read, the talent) wouldn't have napped through the Browns game to end the season. At 10-6 with a 8-4 conference record, we would have been the #5 seed in the playoffs.

That's life, though. No point getting upset about it. DD seems to have gotten ball control back - I guess someone managed to coach that problem out of him - so we shouldn't expect such disappointments next year.

Texans Pride
02-22-2005, 10:47 PM
This is their year to produce, if they can't make the playoffs this year then I think it will be time for a regime change. . . I'd like Capers to remain a coach on the team, just not as head coach.

Paragon Blue
02-22-2005, 11:43 PM
1 more year texanpride

WWJD
02-22-2005, 11:45 PM
I'll go along with the general assembly on this one...this is a year for finding out what direction the team is going in and also a big one for the coaching staff. In the NFL you don't get many years to produce a winner like they did in the old days with Landry. So I do think Coach Capers is under a microscope this year.

Blake
02-23-2005, 12:17 AM
As long as capers goes up in wins, he will be the coach. Remember, this is a 5 year plan. So dont be surprised to see Capers coach next year, if we dont make the playoffs. He does need to get at least 7-8 wins though.

bckey
02-23-2005, 01:58 AM
As long as capers goes up in wins, he will be the coach. Remember, this is a 5 year plan. So dont be surprised to see Capers coach next year, if we dont make the playoffs. He does need to get at least 7-8 wins though.



Please don't say 5 year plan. Nobody is untouchable for 5 years. 7-8 wins won't cut it next year. I'd say 9-7 is the bottom line.

texanfan2002114
02-23-2005, 08:57 AM
Please don't say 5 year plan. Nobody is untouchable for 5 years. 7-8 wins won't cut it next year. I'd say 9-7 is the bottom line.

If the team shows improvement like they did this year from last year the coachs will not be fired even if the team doesn't make the playoffs. Casserly and Bob Mcnair totally believe in the 5 year plan, thats why ALL the coachs got extentions last offseason!!!

Get off Capers and the coachs for atleast 2 more years. The coaching staff has show impovement every season and I have no reason to see that they won't improve again this upcoming season!!

Marcus
02-23-2005, 09:36 AM
Everyone knows that the texans are blessed with talent on both sides of the ball for being a three year team in the NFL.

You see . . . that's where you're wrong, right there. Everyone does NOT know that, because it's not the case.

There are two different mindsets at work here. The group that wants the coaching staff fired, and cries every week about game-planning and playcalling, think for some odd reason, that the Texans players were all pro-bowl caliber, talent wise, and should have won the Super Bowl in their first year of existance.

Then there is the group that recognizes that patience is required to build a football team, and that continuity is the best thing.

Let us all give thanks that Bob McNair is a member of the second group.

TheOgre
02-23-2005, 10:57 AM
I don't see this overall talent that you speak off. We have some great pieces with AJ, Dunte, Babin and Carr. I just don't see the talent on the O-line (including TE) or the front 7 on defense. Babin played very well for a rookie converted DE.

Personally I think there are some weak links on the team. McKinney struggled last year. Foreman has never been much better than a functional ILB. We still don't have a multi-dimensional TE (I'm holding my breath on Joppru). We are likely losing Bradford and that leaves a big void at the #2 WR slot. Walker, Payne, Glenn, Coleman and Sharper didn't look as solid last year. Wiegert went from our best overall lineman in 2003, to one of our 2 worst (starters) in 2004.

My point is that while we are gaining new talent, we are losing it too. Don't overestimate the talent this team has. Rose-colored glasses don't have a place when one is trying to be objective about talent.

rhc564
02-23-2005, 11:29 AM
:woot There are a couple things I'm trying to understand here-- first, for you
5 yr people. We are 60% into the 5 yr plan and still have a ton of problems,
with virtually every posistion on the team either needing an upgrade or
added depth. There is only 1 year left to get everything right so that we
are a playoff team beginning with the 5th year. That's right. The 5 year
plan is running out of time and still has a lot of work to do---too, we are
too far into this 'playoff in 5 yr scenario' for any back peddling. I sense
some of you are going to begin changing this plan to 'just' winning, with
playoffs further down the road-- others, including team reps, will say there
never was a 5 yr plan!

Second, what kind of talent do we really have and do we have the coach-
ing in place to motivate/develope whatever talent there is?

Another year. OK. I can accept that. I'm just wandering if everyone
realizes the importance/magnitude of this 4th year as it leads into the
'glorious' 5th year. This team better make some right decision/choices
now because there is no room for error. The clock is ticking... :hmmm:

Gilly
02-23-2005, 11:33 AM
Capers is not the problem. we need a new play caller more than we need anything. I remember getting sick to my stomach in the forth quarter everyweek when play calling lost the game. I say give Capers more time and see what happens.

Sarg01
02-23-2005, 02:32 PM
There are a couple things I'm trying to understand here-- first, for you 5 yr people. We are 60% into the 5 yr plan and still have a ton of problems, with virtually every posistion on the team either needing an upgrade or added depth.

Here's my run down of what we've got that will (probably) still be here for yr5:

QB (2)- Carr, Ragone
RB (3)- Davis, Wells
FB - Baxter
WR (5) - Johnson, Gaffney, Armstrong, Starling
TE (3) - Joppru, maybe Miller
LT - Wand (team seems to believe)
LG - Pitts
RT - Wade
Various OL depth

Offensively we'd need to do something about the TE, C and RG starters by Yr5. OLine depth is OK today, its the starters who are questionable. 1 WR, 1 RB and 1 TE need depth. Total players needed: 6

RE - Smith
Various DL depth
OLB (3) - Babin, Peek, Orr
ILB (3)- Sharper? Wong? (Age)
CB (3)- Robinson, Faggins
S (3)- Earl, Coleman?, Simmons

Defensively we need NT and LE at the line, depth is OK. ILB needs two players. CB needs a #2, FS needed. Total players needed: 6 + assume 2 of Sharper/Wong/Coleman are done = 8

Leaving special teams out of the picture, we need about 14 players to have every position set with solid depth. A few holes can be dealt with (even Super Bowl teams have weaknesses). Assuming we find 5 players in each draft, we have 10 of 14 right there, meaning we're easily within reach of deep-playoff-contention with 2-3 FA pickups.

Dannyboy81
02-24-2005, 04:23 AM
Still think we have talent on the offensive side with wr, rb, pass-catching TE, and qb!!! On D we have playmakers on 3 aspects of it. Walker, Sharper, and Glenn/Robinson. In my opinion . . . the coaching staff needs to produce more productivity with the players we have now. I just dont think the coaching staff/head coach has the mind set to do that. We're blessed with the kind of potential our offense has but just need to get them working on all cylinders. I say if we are not in the playoff hunt at the end of the season we should take on a new head coach. Thats just my opinion!!

I think consistentcy is the main issue on both sides of the ball. And in my opinion . . . . . the coaching staff is to blame. We are aren't that bad of a
team. A play or two there in a couple of games during the season and we could have been talking about playoffs!!!!!! Thats just my take on it though.

Wolf
02-24-2005, 06:46 AM
Keep the coaches for 2 more years.. unless the Texans just fall flat on their face. This was a team that was built from street free agents and boarderline NFL players 3 years ago and we have improved conciderably. this team struggled with a change in the blocking scheme last season.. I couldn't imagine what a change would do to the offensive/defensive philosophies at this moment.. The game is just starting to slow down for the young guys

Face it we probably would have made the playoffs this season if it weren't for key injuries to the OL .. a few years back... and our development as a team would be leaps and bounds ahead of where we are... Ryan young and Boselli...and let me throw in an injury to Joppru... 2 out of 5 guys on the OL that were expected to solidify a line for at least 4-5 years out.. and a TE that was supposed to be a complete one (that can block and catch)... weren't in the plans... IF those guys could have stayed healthy, we'd be talking about how much fun it was to be in the playoffs.

Defensively... I still expected more out of the Veteran group on that side of the ball , ever since day one...and that is the part of the team, I thought would be better at this point .. Walker has been a disappointment to me and the one that I like Payne has been a suprise, yet injuries have slowed him down.

Now I am not making excuses for the coaches and the injuries are part of the game, all teams have them..The injuries take a greater toll on a team that is freshly starting team and hasn't been able to get depth in areas that are needed.. There is still a big drop off in production when a 1st teamer gets hurt and the 2nd teamer steps in and I don't know if anyone could expect a team to fill ALL their needs in just 3 drafts.

bckey
02-24-2005, 10:39 AM
If the team shows improvement like they did this year from last year the coachs will not be fired even if the team doesn't make the playoffs. Casserly and Bob Mcnair totally believe in the 5 year plan, thats why ALL the coachs got extentions last offseason!!!

Get off Capers and the coachs for atleast 2 more years. The coaching staff has show impovement every season and I have no reason to see that they won't improve again this upcoming season!!

I didn't say anything about playoffs. As a matter of fact 9-7 probably wouldn't make the playoffs in the AFC.

As far as improvement in year 3 it was bittersweet. The point has been made over and over again that something was missing this year vs. the previous 2. They played with less "heart". The offensive line took a step backwards by shuffling players to new positions and going to zone blocking. The offense looked flat and uninspired most of the time. TE's were under utilized. The defensive line is getting old fast and didn't look good or play well this year.

About getting off Capers. I don't think he is head coach material. Never have. He is an excellent dc. I won't even bring up Palmer and Fangio other than to say I don't care for them. Fangio has it a little easier because he can rely on Capers.

I am a big fan of the Texans. Just because I don't like the coaching staff doesn't make me less of a fan. I grew up watching the Oilers in the 60's, 70's, 80's, and 90's. I stuck with them through some lean years. I'm no bandwagoner. I'm here for the long haul with the Texans. I will say what I think though.

Lucky
02-24-2005, 11:01 AM
Keep the coaches for 2 more years.. unless the Texans just fall flat on their face.
This is the "fish or cut bait" season for the coaches. Capers signed a 5 year deal & none of the assistants are signed past '06. McNair will either give Capers & staff an extension following the '05 season or look for a new coach. He won't force the staff to play through a lame duck season in '06 where they're coaching for their jobs. That's a move a 3rd class owner, like Red McCombs, would make.

U4ikrob
02-24-2005, 11:53 AM
A quick check on the dial - yep I see were at year #4 with the Fire Capers thread.

This year though could be some changes if Capers & Co cant get some better results from the personel and compete for a playoff spot.

Love the team and the guys - would love even more to see them all succeed, but the writing may be on the wall by mid season if were not competing for the division and playoffs by the end of the year. Some hard choices for McNair this year esp if the team starts off slow again. Lots of places to improve and a long term plan in place has made growth pretty stable, but honestly I look for the kid gloves to come off this year for everyone. Scrutiny from the media to the fans will be turning up the heat on the team, coaches or Ownership this year for results.

my 2 yards worth

Vinny
02-24-2005, 01:59 PM
I'm happy with the current staff. We were plus or minus one game of .500 in our third year....and that's about where I thought we would be since we chose to stay away from chronic high cost free agents and decided to build a team via the draft as a foundation for our football club. This puts is at a point where we were as good or better than half the league going into year 4. People "expecting" a playoff run last year had their sights a bit high.

Lucky
02-24-2005, 02:22 PM
People "expecting" a playoff run last year had their sights a bit high.
I guess I'm one of those fans, because I did think the Texans had a shot at a WC berth last season. I felt so because I thought that the Titans would slip back into the pack & I liked the Texans schedule at home. I thought that if the Texans could play .500 on the road (& they did), that a 6-2 home record would have them challenging for that last WC spot. And it would have.

Unfortunately, the Texans defense sputtered out of the gate (and all of the blame can't fall on the rookies) and the O-line was inconsistent all season. These are the same questions that the team entered the '04 season with. So if these aspects aren't improved in '05, someone will have to take responsibility.

I'm not saying that the Texans must be in the playoffs in '05 for Capers & Co. to get contract extensions. This is a very tough conference & even a 10-6 record won't guarantee a playoff berth. If the 3 problems areas show vast improvement (defensive & O-line consistency, protecting the home field) I think Capers will be back in '06 & beyond. Personally, I think the problems will be solved and Capers will be the Texans HC for many years.

disaacks3
02-24-2005, 02:50 PM
As far as improvement in year 3 it was bittersweet. The point has been made over and over again that something was missing this year vs. the previous 2. They played with less "heart". The offensive line took a step backwards by shuffling players to new positions and going to zone blocking. The offense looked flat and uninspired most of the time. TE's were under utilized. The defensive line is getting old fast and didn't look good or play well this year.

About getting off Capers. I don't think he is head coach material. Never have. He is an excellent dc. I won't even bring up Palmer and Fangio other than to say I don't care for them. Fangio has it a little easier because he can rely on Capers. Almost exactly my thoughts (and more eloquently put). Our "record" may have improved, but it definitely seemed that was due to the pack falling back, rather than the Texans taking giant leaps forward.

I think Capers makes a great defensive coordinator. On a play-to-play basis, however, I believe he plays the game too conservatively when he's handed the 'full reins'. (Before anyone's knickers get in a twist over 4th down plunges and fake punts, please remember the play-calling and coaching decisions that sometimes led UP to those situations.)

And SOMEBODY, please save me from all the 5-year plan folks. If their "plan" included scrapping the entire offensive blocking scheme in the third year, they should all resign.

Despite everthing, I'm still in favor of letting Capers go AT LEAST for the 5 years, IF (and only if) he can somehow manage to get the team to play with fire in their belly again!

Vinny
02-24-2005, 02:57 PM
The "plan" was to build a stable foundation for the team to have that were guys hand-picked from their very own drafts (as the teams talent core) so they don't have to redefine the team every few years like the Cowboys and Redskins (or the expansion Browns) do groping around in free agency with over priced guys injecting superficial hope into the home fan base. You can't build this type of foundation in two years because you just can't expect more than a couple of impact guys per draft year. A two year build and "expecting" the team in the playoffs is nice....storybook like, but kind of pie in the sky. I was hoping for this too...but not *expecting* it like some of you guys.

bwatkinsiii
02-24-2005, 03:30 PM
I almost agree. I believe that he is too conservative with the deep ball. Carr is the goldenboy of houston and no one will say anything to hurt the ego of the young star but i feel that he has taken on Caper's conservative approach a little too far maybe even to the point of being so afraid to make a mistake that he won't ever "put it out there" in fear of making a mistake. If the texans never throw the long ball then defenses cheat on us and make it too hard to run and then we dink and dunk with the passing game and this is a loosing battle. However if you look at the number of times Capers elects to go for it on fourth down...he does not look so conservative, but we all know he is.

bwatkinsiii
02-24-2005, 03:35 PM
Oh yea,
Amen to the under utilization of TE's

Vinny
02-24-2005, 03:41 PM
Oh yea,
Amen to the under utilization of TE'sHard to turn bologna into steak.

rhc564
02-24-2005, 03:53 PM
As some of you get all kind of warm and fuzzy about what a great job
Capers and staff have done, just don't forget that every other 'new'
team of the modern era made the playoffs within their 4 th year...and,
please, spare me all the excuses why our situation is different. I suspect
that our chances of becoming a winning team will start at about the same
time the excuses stop, with the real question being will this happen during
the Caper's era? :woot

BTAforlife
02-24-2005, 04:13 PM
I'm reading about how some of you are growing impatient about our head coach and it's bothersome to me. I love the fact that we, fans and the team, have kept improving from year one to now, inspite of injuries. This reflects our faith and love of our team and most of all reflects the coaching staff. Yes, there has been some head scratching decisions made by our coaches, but what team hasn't made you scratch your head. For example, the week before their first regular season game coach Bill Belichick cut their starting free-safety Lawyer Milloy, everybody including his own players were enraged by this. People were wondering if Bill could keep his own team from revolting against him, I think everything turned out fine there. Look we need to keep faith in our team and coaching staff that they will keep this ship a float and ride into a superbowl. I know that Dom Capers is the best coach for the Houston Texans. Let's not be like all the other fans and call for a firing of the head coach because we're impatient with him. Let's show our team and everyone else in the world that we are the best and most supportive fans in the world.!!

TheOgre
02-24-2005, 04:26 PM
Answer me this: If we go 9-7 and miss the playoffs in 2005, have we failed as a team?

I'm sure the Browns fans are really excited about their one playoff game a couple of years ago. They really have built that team into a thing of beauty, huh?

I'm looking for progress. I want at least 8 wins this year.

TexansTrueFan
02-24-2005, 04:54 PM
good post, but the problem is not all fans can be as patient as me and you. Some expected us to win the SB in our first season (so it seems) ! I like Dom Capers and think he is a very good coach, but i will personally give him to more year, so he can reach his 5 year plan, and if we havent done any damage in the post season by that time, i say he goes. The front office has done a nice job buliding this team !

rhc564
02-24-2005, 07:41 PM
I'll be the first to admit that-after 3 years- I did not believe this team
would have so many holes on both sides of the ball. Being optimistic about
Capers being a defensive guru, I thought at least the defense would be
solid/stable. Foundation. What exactly does that mean? Is the DL set. NO.
Is the OL set. NO. Are we set at running back? NO. How about receivers?
NO. Defensive backs or line backers? NO. Tight ends. NO. Will be set next
year with the current players? How many players does it take to build a
foundation? And, what guarantee is there that-even if it exist- that core
will stay around for several years?

What is Capers going to do to solve the problems we have going into the
4th year?

:hmmm:

wiley2002
02-24-2005, 07:49 PM
The only guarantees in life are death and taxes. :sbad:

Vinny
02-24-2005, 08:39 PM
How many players does it take to build a
foundation? And, what guarantee is there that-even if it exist- that core
will stay around for several years?

Players like David Carr, Andre Johnson, Dunta Robinson, Chester Pitts, and Jason Babin are 'core guys'. When you don't invest in high priced FA's as a Franchise model you put your money into developing and resigning the players you draft. Playoff teams have a core of players that can be built around. Once you have it you can change it, tweak it or whatever it, but they have always maintained that they will try to build a team from their own scouting dept, and try not to spend too much money on FA's so they can keep more of their own guys.

Ibar_Harry
02-25-2005, 02:02 AM
Sorry, Vinny, but I will reiterate my feelings that we are going nowhere, because of the injuries two years ago and at the end of this season. Injuries have hurt this ball club far more than anyone thinks and I believe the Texans are going to have to retrench and that will take us a couple of more years down the road. Too many key people have suffered and not returned to form. Age is catching up with a number of key people and they are going to have to be replaced. Management doesn't want to do it and I know their hopes are high that some of these players can return to form. I just think people are blowing smoke. Quite frankly I don't think Capers is the coach we need to lead this team, but in all fairness no one is taking the injuries into account nor do most understand the impact that they have had on this ball club. We will be going into the 3rd year of recovery for some of these guys and there still doesn't seem to be any light at the end of the tunnel. Sometimes its just impossible to heal up and return to form. If we keep our current personnel and don't make changes, I believe next season will be a very long one and a bad one. If we are not going to use the FA market then we need to cut some of the Dead Wood and replace it with younger talent and that will cost us another year or two. We need an infusion of young talent. Having said that I just don't think it will happen, because management seems to be set on the status quo.

On the lighter side I see one of the top O-Line draftees is from Fresno State. I have a feeling their current O-line could out play ours. That's not really a joke either. They really do have some fine players. They have some very young, but extemely good defensive talent in addition. People are starting to pay attention to Pat Hill products.

Draft time is not that far away. I hope we are as successful as last year. It would be really be nice to pick up a couple of unexpected finds somewhere. I just wish we have about 15 draft picks with a couple of them being high 1st rounders. We have a lot of holes to fill. I hope the draft gives us some reasons to be optomistic about next year.

Wolf
02-25-2005, 07:08 PM
As some of you get all kind of warm and fuzzy about what a great job
Capers and staff have done, just don't forget that every other 'new'
team of the modern era made the playoffs within their 4 th year...and,
please, spare me all the excuses why our situation is different. I suspect
that our chances of becoming a winning team will start at about the same
time the excuses stop, with the real question being will this happen during
the Caper's era? :woot

Yeah and what happened to those teams after their 4 year run?

If memory serves me correctly..
Carolina finally made it back after a long absence.
Jacksonville... I can't remember them making it back yet.
cleveland...well their drafting #3 this year.

Wolf
02-25-2005, 07:15 PM
What is ironic is most people would love to have Jeff Fisher as a coach instead of Capers....

I think the coaching staff has done a good job.. about the only thing I wondered about (other than a play or two) is the changing of the blocking scheme ..but I am not there in the "war" room listening to the Coaches and their reasons for the scheme.

Oh and about Jeff Fisher for those that would love to have him.. I remember the same questions from people about his "keeping it close" style (ala Dom Capers style). And Jeff still plays it that way... good defense,good special teams and a running game..and an occasional air it out.. kinda sounds like the Texans philosophy yet we haven't got the talent/depth yet.

rhc564
02-25-2005, 07:53 PM
"Yeah and what happened to those teams after their 4 year run?"

The point is that they all made it and the Ravens, Jags, Panthers are
looking pretty good though some of you are stuck on the Browns. And,
just think if Romeo works his magic in Cleveland and turns them around
quick. I can hear the excuses now!! :cool:

Wolf
02-25-2005, 07:59 PM
"Yeah and what happened to those teams after their 4 year run?"

The point is that they all made it and the Ravens, Jags, Panthers are
looking pretty good though some of you are stuck on the Browns. And,
just think if Romeo works his magic in Cleveland and turns them around
quick. I can hear the excuses now!! :cool:

so what I am getting is that you where wanted a quick short term thing and then have the team sink into the NFL basement again.

rhc564
02-25-2005, 09:46 PM
:) "have the team sink into the NFL basement again"

I don't want this project to become a long term one that never reaches
the point of winning, always lacking 'this' or 'that.' It does no one any
good to turn this team into a perpetual revolving door of 'we're almost
there, just wait until next year'.....

I'm perfectly content to let Caper's tenure as head coach play itself out.
Eventually, he'll either lead us to the 'promise land' or he won't. I'm hoping
we're on the right track and get there sooner than later...time--that,to
me, is the key to differing opinions.

Wolf
02-25-2005, 10:01 PM
:) "have the team sink into the NFL basement again"

I don't want this project to become a long term one that never reaches
the point of winning, always lacking 'this' or 'that.' It does no one any
good to turn this team into a perpetual revolving door of 'we're almost
there, just wait until next year'.....

I'm perfectly content to let Caper's tenure as head coach play itself out.
Eventually, he'll either lead us to the 'promise land' or he won't. I'm hoping
we're on the right track and get there sooner than later...time--that,to
me, is the key to differing opinions.
we both agree. My view is it takes 4-5 years to get a team built from scratch.(I.e. depth) ... with injuries it has slowed our progress (all teams have them,but with our lack of depth it is more noticable)

TexansTrueFan
02-26-2005, 05:06 PM
this team will be a contender for the SB in its 5th year, i see us becoming a play off team in year 4 as a wild card, and we win one play off game. I think the 03 injuries helped this team more than they hurt it, it gave us a chance to put young players in there and see what they had and also gave them playing time !

Vinny
02-26-2005, 05:19 PM
The point is that they all made it and the Ravens, Jags, Panthers are
looking pretty good though some of you are stuck on the Browns. And,
just think if Romeo works his magic in Cleveland and turns them around
quick. I can hear the excuses now!! :cool:Among those teams everyone of them had a core of players to upgrade/exchange except for the Browns...who like ourselves is/was an expansion team....like us.

Dannyboy81
02-27-2005, 03:37 AM
I love the way Casserly and the front office put the team together but just don't think Capers' is the right captain for the ship. But you have to say we are probably the best TALENTED expansion team every assembled in recent nfl history. With that being said we have set ourselves up for having a real good play-off caliber team for years to come.

Just one problem though . . . . those years will probably be later than sooner. I agree with other people saying we should keep Capers as a DC or a assistant coach but NOT as a head coach.

brickmantexanfan
02-27-2005, 06:38 AM
NO! Leave it alone for now

hound
02-27-2005, 07:58 AM
I think our play calling at times is as bad as I've ever seen.

You remember the game last season, maybe Greenbay, where late in the fourth the game is tight and the cameras showed Carr on the sideline giving the offense a pep talk and saying, "we're going to go in there and use up the clock and drive down the field". Then the team goes in and the play calling is DD into the middle of the line on first and second down for no gain hardly... and then with the Texans needing seven or eight yards the Texans next play is a one yard crossing pass to AJ... where he catches the ball in the middle of the field, surrounded by the other team and is tackled instantly. The Texans punt and the other team comes in and drives down to win the game.

You don't make the playoffs with play calling like that. If Capers likes that play calling he needs to go. If he doesn't like the play calling he needs to change it.

Wolf
02-27-2005, 09:41 AM
I love the way Casserly and the front office put the team together but just don't think Capers' is the right captain for the ship. But you have to say we are probably the best TALENTED expansion team every assembled in recent nfl history. With that being said we have set ourselves up for having a real good play-off caliber team for years to come.

Just one problem though . . . . those years will probably be later than sooner. I agree with other people saying we should keep Capers as a DC or a assistant coach but NOT as a head coach.

yeah on paper, but if you remember. No boselli, No Young. and a bunch of street FA's and rookies on offense in the 1st year...Hard to be a good coach when you don't have the talent or the talent is injured. And who would have known Jermaine Lewis was a bust.

those were 2 probowl guys and supposively a very solid RT. That set the franchise back a year on building.
IMO

Wolf
02-27-2005, 09:48 AM
I think our play calling at times is as bad as I've ever seen.

You remember the game last season, maybe Greenbay, where late in the fourth the game is tight and the cameras showed Carr on the sideline giving the offense a pep talk and saying, "we're going to go in there and use up the clock and drive down the field". Then the team goes in and the play calling is DD into the middle of the line on first and second down for no gain hardly... and then with the Texans needing seven or eight yards the Texans next play is a one yard crossing pass to AJ... where he catches the ball in the middle of the field, surrounded by the other team and is tackled instantly. The Texans punt and the other team comes in and drives down to win the game.

You don't make the playoffs with play calling like that. If Capers likes that play calling he needs to go. If he doesn't like the play calling he needs to change it.

What I notice about our playcalling is that given the fact that our OL is not very good, the Texans do run the ball in certain situations when I think normally we wouldn't be so conservative.. Is it frustrating to me? YES!!! but I understand why they do it. Due to the lack of experience on the OL, they are trying to keep David out of the certain passing situations (3rd and 7) to help him not get pummeled... I don't have stats in front of me and I can probably be proved wrong, but when it is 2nd and 7 or so, more times than not, we run the ball straight ahead.... yes, I hate it,but I also hate it when it is 3rd and 7 (because we passed on 2nd and 7 and it was incomplete) and our OL can't stop the rush....Now when we get an upgrade at center and TE and gell as a unit, well of course playcalling will look better, because the play actually got executed right. (before this thread takes a fork in the road, I am NOT saying use our 13th pick on a TE or C..that would be way to high)

infantrycak
02-27-2005, 10:31 AM
I think our play calling at times is as bad as I've ever seen.

You remember the game last season, maybe Greenbay, where late in the fourth the game is tight and the cameras showed Carr on the sideline giving the offense a pep talk and saying, "we're going to go in there and use up the clock and drive down the field". Then the team goes in and the play calling is DD into the middle of the line on first and second down for no gain hardly... and then with the Texans needing seven or eight yards the Texans next play is a one yard crossing pass to AJ... where he catches the ball in the middle of the field, surrounded by the other team and is tackled instantly. The Texans punt and the other team comes in and drives down to win the game.

You don't make the playoffs with play calling like that. If Capers likes that play calling he needs to go. If he doesn't like the play calling he needs to change it.

Nope, don't remember that at all. Want to know why?--because it didn't happen that way. The last possession of the Texans was three straight passes and then a punt--funny how the "we always run on 1st and 2nd down" folks never remember those possessions. Green Bay then proceeded down the field to kick the game winning field goal. The series you are thinking about was the next to last and resulted in zip points for Green Bay as Dunta Robinson picked off Favre.

rhc564
02-27-2005, 12:25 PM
Nope, don't remember that at all. Want to know why?--because it didn't happen that way. The last possession of the Texans was three straight passes and then a punt--funny how the "we always run on 1st and 2nd down" folks never remember those possessions. Green Bay then proceeded down the field to kick the game winning field goal. The series you are thinking about was the next to last and resulted in zip points for Green Bay as Dunta Robinson picked off Favre.

...looking forward to the day when the Texans don't pass so much when
everbody in the stadium knows they're going to throw, like the last drive
against the Packers. Too, the best down to throw on to minimize failure
is first down. But, as we all know, the Texans rarely throw on this down
which certainly figures into the game planning of the opponent. Maybe,
when we reach that perfect scenario of players,great turf, no injuries,etc.,
we won't be the easiest team in the NFL to game plan against. :confused:

rhc564
02-27-2005, 01:14 PM
...for confirmation of the above, ask the Cleveland Browns :)

aj.
02-27-2005, 01:20 PM
looking forward to the day when the Texans don't pass so much when everbody in the stadium knows they're going to throw, like the last drive
against the Packers. Too, the best down to throw on to minimize failure
is first down. But, as we all know, the Texans rarely throw on this down


Not to confuse the issue with facts but in the second half of the Packers game the Texans passed (or called pass) 6 times on first down and ran 4 times on first down.

Wolf
02-27-2005, 01:22 PM
tough crowd on this board.. signs of a young team.. inconsistancy..
for every cleveland game there is a carolina game (which we beat the team that would represent the NFC in a superbowl) and we lose at the last minute to the other super bowl team (patriots)

then we lose to a cleveland team(this year) and a cincy team (last year)

TexanExile
02-27-2005, 02:25 PM
And steamroll a media darling like Jacksonville...but also nearly gag against Chicago, a team Houston should've absolutely crushed at that point in the year. Yup....stuff happens.

This team isn't just going through "growing pains." It's also part of being in the NFL that ALL teams have bad weeks, and ALL teams have exceptional weeks. Did the Patriots quit after getting rolled by the lowly Dolphins?

It's still too early to call for Capers' head. It IS time to call for Carr's head. Not for it on a plate, but for it to enter the game. He's had enough experience now to be held accountable, and now needs to make decisions that complement his great physical skills. Until he does that more consistently, no coach in the world will make this team better than 7-9.

On that note, it'd be nice if we had something at left tackle other than a large traffic cone wearing a Texans uniform. QBs probably get smarter in a hurry when they're not looking through their helmet's earhole to see what just hit them. I continue to see this as the team's most glaring weakness.

TexansTrueFan
02-27-2005, 02:48 PM
And steamroll a media darling like Jacksonville...but also nearly gag against Chicago, a team Houston should've absolutely crushed at that point in the year. Yup....stuff happens.

This team isn't just going through "growing pains." It's also part of being in the NFL that ALL teams have bad weeks, and ALL teams have exceptional weeks. Did the Patriots quit after getting rolled by the lowly Dolphins?

It's still too early to call for Capers' head. It IS time to call for Carr's head. Not for it on a plate, but for it to enter the game. He's had enough experience now to be held accountable, and now needs to make decisions that complement his great physical skills. Until he does that more consistently, no coach in the world will make this team better than 7-9.

On that note, it'd be nice if we had something at left tackle other than a large traffic cone wearing a Texans uniform. QBs probably get smarter in a hurry when they're not looking through their helmet's earhole to see what just hit them. I continue to see this as the team's most glaring weakness.

i agree with all that except the portion on Carr, he does have great physical skills like you said, but what more do you expect him to do when he only has 2.3 sec to get rid of the football, most recievers are still tied up with a CB and havent broke free at that point.

rhc564
02-27-2005, 03:43 PM
:woot Not to confuse the issue with facts but in the second half of the Packers game the Texans passed (or called pass) 6 times on first down and ran 4 times on first down.


You must be one of the few who believe they throw more than run most
of the time on first down and are not predictable---that's ok, your'e
entitled to your opinion and I won't clog up the board with specifics to
back my point--- besides, I don't think there would be enough bandwith!!

rhc564
02-27-2005, 04:04 PM
"carolina game (which we beat the team that would represent the NFC in a superbowl) and we lose at the last minute to the other super bowl team (patriots)"

IMO, these 2 games hit 'the nail on the head.' Against the Panthers, we
had an agressive attack in the 4th quarter that got first downs,scored
points, and ate up the clock. This was against a team that is noted for
its defense and we put it to them. But, the team seldom takes it to a
team in those situations...Against the Patriots, we flat out blew this game.
They punt and we get the ball back on THEIR 35 yardline---all we need is
about 5 yds to be in field goal range----5 yds! So, on 1st down we pitch
out to our slowest back (Mack) and send him outside, losing yardage.
On 2nd down, we still run and lose more yardage. With 4th and a "mile"
we throw a bomb... :hmmm:

aj.
02-27-2005, 05:39 PM
:woot

You must be one of the few who believe they throw more than run most
of the time on first down and are not predictable---that's ok, your'e
entitled to your opinion and I won't clog up the board with specifics to
back my point--- besides, I don't think there would be enough bandwith!!

You're reading way too much into my post. You said the Texans "rarely" throw on first down, and since the end of the GB game was being used as a bad example by some, I went back and looked just for the heck of it and found that the Texans threw (or attempted to throw) 60% of the time on first down in the second half of that game. No opinion, just fact.

Here's an opinion: Many people have selective memory when it comes to play calling. If it works, it's a great call or it's forgotten (in the context of play calling) because it's what we expect. If it doesn't work, it's a poor call - especially if it's a running play or a dump off - regardless of how many passes fell incomplete or sacks were given up or blocks/assignments were missed or penalties committed before that. If I had a nickel for every time run-run-pass was debunked on this board over the past two seasons, I could buy a new flat screen monitor to replace this antiquated pos I'm staring at now.

To answer the original question in this thread, no, it's not time for a new head coach - yet.

And for those who will hide behind "I told ya so" after Capers gets fired or is not renewed after '06, I'll leave you with this: Since the advent of Super Bowls, only 14% of the men who ever had the title of NFL head coach made it to a Super Bowl as a head coach. So it's a pretty safe bet to say that Coach X won't get us there - because history says there's better than an 8 in 10 chance that he won't regardless of who it is.

DBLR1
02-27-2005, 06:45 PM
Capers is not the problem. we need a new play caller more than we need anything. I remember getting sick to my stomach in the forth quarter everyweek when play calling lost the game. I say give Capers more time and see what happens.
I agree with you. Palmer is my question mark. You have to adapt to what you have and I feel he didn't do a good job of that. Capers is a good coach, very motivational for the team---a great defensive mind. A few more pieces and a better playcaller and we are a playoff team for a while.

bckey
02-27-2005, 10:17 PM
I agree with you. Palmer is my question mark. You have to adapt to what you have and I feel he didn't do a good job of that. Capers is a good coach, very motivational for the team---a great defensive mind. A few more pieces and a better playcaller and we are a playoff team for a while.

You're kidding right. How is Capers motivating this team? With stats?

Palmer and Fangio are both problems but it is more noticeable with Palmer because Fangio has Capers to rely on because of his defensive past. Capers is an defensive cordinator wearing a head coaching hat. Without an outstanding oc that hat will never fit. Capers is clueless about offense (except how to stop one) and that leaves Palmer to continue making bonehead play calls.

hungryjack
02-28-2005, 12:29 AM
I think Capers is doing a good job thus far. I agree that some of the playcalling is not up to par, but I put alot of the blame on the offensive coordinator, Palmer, not Capers. Granted that he is the head coach, he still has to stand by his offensive coordinator. They'll get better next year. As you can see, they are improving yearly, so give him a chance.

DBLR1
02-28-2005, 09:57 AM
You're kidding right. How is Capers motivating this team? With stats?

Palmer and Fangio are both problems but it is more noticeable with Palmer because Fangio has Capers to rely on because of his defensive past. Capers is an defensive cordinator wearing a head coaching hat. Without an outstanding oc that hat will never fit. Capers is clueless about offense (except how to stop one) and that leaves Palmer to continue making bonehead play calls.
Well lets see, where do I start. While I was talking to Corey Bradford last summer he was telling me how much all of the players liked him and not to mention all of the things I have heard around the league about the guy I would say he gets a lot out of his players. If you want to put the blame on him then you have a valid point because he is the HC. In my opinion he is doing a damn good job with an expansion team, be it 4th year now, with a bunch of rookies starting every year. I think the coordinators are the problem but then again maybe it isn't. How can anyone blame stuff on the coaches when you don't know what play was called or what package was put in. I put a lot of the blame on the players along with the coaching. I also put blame on the team as a whole due to inexperience. Don't come questioning me about my opinion, which by the way looks to be a popular belief not only on here but on 610 and 790. :hmmm:

rhc564
02-28-2005, 02:33 PM
I only have one major problem with the Caper supporters and that is about
the question of time---4,5,6 plus years---how much time does Capers get
to put a winning team on the field? Each year, so far, we hear more and
more excuses why the team can't do this or that but is 'on target' to win.
OK, so give a definitive answer- how many years does Capers get?

From what I'm hearing, there is a 'rollover' answer that is in effect that
grows each year as excuses are made why expectations are around the
corner, just a little more time needed to get there--Capers got 4 years in
Carolina that included a 12-4 season (17 wins first 2 years)--so please,
if we continue to lose or get to 8-8, when will enough be enough? :confused:

Vinny
02-28-2005, 02:35 PM
I only have one major problem with the Caper supporters and that is about
the question of time---4,5,6 plus years---how much time does Capers get
to put a winning team on the field?Did you honestly expect a playoff run in years one and two of an expansion team? It's not like he has had a roster full of playoff caliber veterans around here in the start up years. You posture your posts as if we failed to make an expected Super Bowl run and are dissapointed. I for one am glad that we are not firing Capers like the Browns fired their HC after 3 years.

rhc564
02-28-2005, 05:07 PM
"Did you honestly expect a playoff run in years one and two of an expansion team?"

No, I did not. Do you think we will have a winning team (not playoff) next
year or the year after?

Sarg01
02-28-2005, 05:20 PM
"Did you honestly expect a playoff run in years one and two of an expansion team?"

No, I did not. Do you think we will have a winning team (not playoff) next
year or the year after?

Absolutely. If our #1 pick performs as well as our other 4 firsts, I'd put my money on this year over next.

Dannyboy81
02-28-2005, 05:56 PM
Replying to people that say its our Coordiantors job .

As a head coach you assume all responsibility for the teams performance on sunday (Giving respect to talent and injuries). With that being said . . . if your the head coach and if any aspect of the team is not getting it done it is their job to fix it. Its the same thing as in real-life. When people want explanations for what happens to their team, store, franchise, business, shopping centers, etc. the first person/people they ask are the ones in charge with them on an every-day basis. They don't ask the employees, players, register operators, assistant managers, coordiantors, or owners. THEY ASK THE PERSON/PEOPLE IN CHARGE!! Their going to ask the head coach because its his responsibility to get the job done and done right. If his right hand man aint cutting it its the HC job to fix it by what-ever means neccesary.
If our coordinators are doing a bad job then he has to work with them or make a decision to look for someone who can fill it. That's not just my opinion but its a fact of life. The top dawg needs to address the issues and if they don't the owners will find someone that will. Its sucks sometimes but thats just the way it is.
:twocents:

rhc564
02-28-2005, 06:31 PM
Absolutely. If our #1 pick performs as well as our other 4 firsts, I'd put my money on this year over next.

if, a word that says it all...

Wolf
02-28-2005, 07:42 PM
funny.. For those that thinks Jimmy Johnson was a great coach

the drafted Irving in 1988 then Aikman in 89....Then won a super bowl in 1992

that is 4 years with an Established team and a HUGE trade (thanks Minnesota)

I am not saying Capers is Jimmy and not saying we will be in the Super Bowl this year but just saying that it does take some time to build a team from scratch and even JJ took a couple of years to get his team going.

rhc564
02-28-2005, 08:56 PM
"funny.. For those that thinks Jimmy Johnson was a great coach"

I've never mentioned JJ but he had a horrible 1st year of 1-15, much better
2nd year of 7-9, great 3rd year of 11-5 and we know the rest...not sure
what this has to do with Capers. Also, I'm just looking for a winning record,
and a sustaining of a winning record. If we get to a Super Bowl. for me,
that's a bonus. The question is can we win with Capers? :confused:

Wolf
02-28-2005, 10:41 PM
"funny.. For those that thinks Jimmy Johnson was a great coach"

I've never mentioned JJ but he had a horrible 1st year of 1-15, much better
2nd year of 7-9, great 3rd year of 11-5 and we know the rest...not sure
what this has to do with Capers. Also, I'm just looking for a winning record,
and a sustaining of a winning record. If we get to a Super Bowl. for me,
that's a bonus. The question is can we win with Capers? :confused:

I never said you mentioned JJ My point is IMO Jimmy Johnson was a good coach and it took him 3 years to get the cowboys to the playoffs and eventually the superbowl... this was with an established team and a huge trade to get players and draft picks and with that it took them some time to get the team going.

what is your reason that we can't win with capers.. I have yet to read specifics on why people think Capers can't do it.. After all he took Carolina to the NFC Championship game... We are trying to play the same type of game as Jeff Fisher or even a Bill cowher .. which is strong defense, Ball control offense with a good running game and an occassional deep pass.

I'll give you my reasons why I think Capers is ok right now.
we have drafted well (and thanks also to CC)
our youngsters are learning and should get better.
We have had bad luck with injuries (Boselli,Payne, Walker, Glenn) over the years ..now all teams have injuries, it just hurts us more because there is such a difference in 1st team to 2nd team (the gap is narrowing finally)
Offensively.. with a few more pieces we should be the type that can play smash mouth or air it out (we need interior line ,RB, TE, #2 WR or one of our other guys step up)
Defensively we have a fairly good secondary and LB's ... Need to add a few pieces IMO.. LB to take formans place,NT and another CB and we need Walker to regain his form.

Special teams ... aren't bad.. Could use an upgrade over Moses (yet he is solid and doesn't hurt us)

to be fair on why I might think Capers can't do it?
If Carr doesn't trust his OL so that he can actually step up into the pocket..(they have to give him a pocket) and he lost all confidence..
Defense... As yall dislike Palmer... (which I think is unjust,but that is another story) .. I think Fangio's defense has been a disappointment .. given that this is a veteran group and overall much more talented than the offense was with Coleman,Glenn, Walker, Payne,Sharper and the rookie DR... That is 4 ex probowlers and 2very close probowlers... Granted not everyone made the probowl every year, but these are probowl caliber players... If Palmer had that talent and we play like we do now, I would be all over for Palmers head.. I mean give our offense 5 more caliber players besides AJ and see how good we could be .. and if we had that and a 7-9 record, I'd say fire capers then.

being we dont' i don't understand why some fans are so impatient.. We get the OL fixed and then see how this offense goes.. I doubt it would be so predictable. Do I like getting beat by the colts? No, I scream at the TV.. but I also realize that we are still in the teen years and still growning even as frustrating it is at times.

Jwwillis
03-01-2005, 11:59 PM
Uhhh? If an NFL expansion team coach can't make the playoffs in 4yrs he is a loser and should be fired. Does this sound right? Not to me. If the Texans had built with high priced FA's that would be one thing, but they didnt. Do the young Texans already need a coaching change to revitalize the team?? Is there a year in which the Texans have not improved there record? Yet, the deadline has been drawn to THIS YEAR? I think we need a reality check. The NFL is more complicated than "4yrs or your out". Injuries and how the Texans players perform on the field should matter more than magic year numbers. As it turned out, the Texans missed the playoffs as a result of DD's early fumble trouble. Trouble he had NEVER had a history of. Anybody started a fire DD thread recently?

infantrycak
03-02-2005, 09:43 AM
As it turned out, the Texans missed the playoffs as a result of DD's early fumble trouble.

Wow, talk about an oversimplification.

Jwwillis
03-02-2005, 10:58 PM
Wow, talk about an oversimplification.

I guess my point is the Texans have been in a position to win in most of the games they played last year. The answer to winning will be the players executing in critical situations not a sweeping coaching change. Im still hoping for a little respect from the officials too. Maybe next year.