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Section516
11-09-2009, 04:24 PM
I think we still opened a lot of eyes..


Seems everyone's saying the Texans are NOT a team they want to face.

A good change, if only a moral one.

Pollardized
11-09-2009, 04:31 PM
I agree with ya. It was predicted that Peyton would "light the Texans defense up" yesterday. Didn't work out that way. After the first quarter, our D stood up and held a great team down. If not for a bone head no-play before the 2 minute warning, and sloppy penalty drawing play, Texans win that game. It will be great to see how things go in 3 weeks.

50boys
11-09-2009, 04:32 PM
Oh no, he said that word. Who's going to flip out on him first?

Anyways, I agree with you. They pissed me off but made me proud all in one game yesterday. Hard to explain.

Marcus
11-09-2009, 05:03 PM
Even though we lost . . .

. . they were the ones that got push around. We seem to be getting better every game we play. If we manage to somehow squeak our way into the playoffs , , , we could be peaking at the right time.

I'm stoked about the defense. They are playing very well right now, but when you consider how young the players are, they are going to do nothing but get better.

And as for Frank Bush, talk about the tons of crow that people should be eating . . . Holy smokes!

swisher
11-09-2009, 05:15 PM
We lost to one of the best teams in the league who had won 16 in a row at their place by three points and we had the ball with a chance to tie at the end. I don't know why we should be hanging our heads today.

It was a punch in the gut...but football is not life or death, it's entertainment. I was entertained yesterday..it ended very badly but you can't say the Texans ever gave up. That's all I have ever asked for. The wins will come.

DocBar
11-09-2009, 06:10 PM
We lost to one of the best teams in the league who had won 16 in a row at their place by three points and we had the ball with a chance to tie at the end. I don't know why we should be hanging our heads today.

It was a punch in the gut...but football is not life or death, it's entertainment. I was entertained yesterday..it ended very badly but you can't say the Texans ever gave up. That's all I have ever asked for. The wins will come.We beat ourselves in a game against one of the best teams in the NFL. If our young teams gets a bit more big game experience, watch out for them. They will be a team to reckon with. I'm looking forward to seeing the rematch in person.

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 06:49 PM
New England
Pittsburgh
Minnesota
New Orleans
Indianapolis...

are the only teams in the NFL that are better than the Texans, IMO...

I happen to think we will beat INDY in three weeks but it's hard to argue with their consistency.. Considering the age of this team, it's an exciting time. Man, I hope there isn't a work-stoppage in 2011!

TexanBacker93
11-10-2009, 12:46 AM
Oh no, he said that word. Who's going to flip out on him first?

Anyways, I agree with you. They pissed me off but made me proud all in one game yesterday. Hard to explain.

I'm with you there. It is hard to explain. I think it's the agony of knowing they were so close to maybe getting that monkey off their back. Maybe if things work out well they'll get a chance to redeem themselves in Indy in January. First ever win up there in the playoffs would be pretty nice.

m5kwatts
11-10-2009, 12:52 AM
New England
Pittsburgh
Minnesota
New Orleans
Indianapolis...

are the only teams in the NFL that are better than the Texans, IMO...

I happen to think we will beat INDY in three weeks but it's hard to argue with their consistency.. Considering the age of this team, it's an exciting time. Man, I hope there isn't a work-stoppage in 2011!

Enter UFL

JCTexan
11-10-2009, 01:59 AM
I think we still opened a lot of eyes..


Seems everyone's saying the Texans are NOT a team they want to face.

A good change, if only a moral one.

I understand the logic, and I doubt too many teams want to face the Texans right now, but I'm honestly getting tired of making excuses for coming close. If not for Kris Brown's field goal miss, the 103 penalty yards that Houston gave up they would have won... If they could have gotten 1 yard they could have beaten both Arizona & Jacksonville. Right now in year 8 of this franchise I want them to make the playoffs. Coming just short a couple more times will likely ruin their chances of getting there.

This game against Indy was probably the most upset I have been after a loss ever. Not that I was expecting a win, but being that close to winning in Indy for the first time ever would have been huge for this team. Winning this game would have made me excited going into the bye week 6-3, and would have given Houston a great chance of making the playoffs.

Again I understand the logic & agree with it, but I'm personally getting tired of moral victories. This team is the best they have ever been, but I want more than going 9-7. I want this team in the playoffs and more of these close losses will keep that from happening this year.

Usually I don't feel this way but too many of these close losses has me disappointed right now. Thinking of being 8-1 instead of 5-4 is kind of depressing. Especially since that could be the difference between making the playoffs and coming just short.

Pantherstang84
11-10-2009, 04:30 AM
I understand the logic, and I doubt too many teams want to face the Texans right now, but I'm honestly getting tired of making excuses for coming close. If not for Kris Brown's field goal miss, the 103 penalty yards that Houston gave up they would have won... If they could have gotten 1 yard they could have beaten both Arizona & Jacksonville. Right now in year 8 of this franchise I want them to make the playoffs. Coming just short a couple more times will likely ruin their chances of getting there.

This game against Indy was probably the most upset I have been after a loss ever. Not that I was expecting a win, but being that close to winning in Indy for the first time ever would have been huge for this team. Winning this game would have made me excited going into the bye week 6-3, and would have given Houston a great chance of making the playoffs.

Again I understand the logic & agree with it, but I'm personally getting tired of moral victories. This team is the best they have ever been, but I want more than going 9-7. I want this team in the playoffs and more of these close losses will keep that from happening this year.

Usually I don't feel this way but too many of these close losses has me disappointed right now. Thinking of being 8-1 instead of 5-4 is kind of depressing. Especially since that could be the difference between making the playoffs and coming just short.

Careful....

You're starting to sound a little irrational there.

:sarcasm:

Grams
11-10-2009, 07:06 AM
While a 3 point loss to Indy in their house is a moral victory it still ends up as a L in the W/L column.

It seems like we are just "inches" away from being a very good football team.

We get very close to sacking the qb, but just "inches" away when the ball is thrown. We get close to scoring the winning or tying TD, but end up just "inches" away.

The defense is getting very good, the offense is very good.

Not sure what the reason is. Could be because we have one of the youngest teams in the NFL and the mindset is not quite there yet. But we are close.
Seems each week we get a little bit closer.

It took Steve Young a while to get the "monkey" off his back. It is time for the Texans to get their "monkey" off their backs.

It starts with the Titans, then Indy. We need to win them both. We need to be there and not "inches" away.

ObsiWan
11-10-2009, 09:12 AM
I understand the logic, and I doubt too many teams want to face the Texans right now, but I'm honestly getting tired of making excuses for coming close. If not for Kris Brown's field goal miss, the 103 penalty yards that Houston gave up they would have won... If they could have gotten 1 yard they could have beaten both Arizona & Jacksonville. Right now in year 8 of this franchise I want them to make the playoffs. Coming just short a couple more times will likely ruin their chances of getting there.

This game against Indy was probably the most upset I have been after a loss ever. Not that I was expecting a win, but being that close to winning in Indy for the first time ever would have been huge for this team. Winning this game would have made me excited going into the bye week 6-3, and would have given Houston a great chance of making the playoffs.

Again I understand the logic & agree with it, but I'm personally getting tired of moral victories. This team is the best they have ever been, but I want more than going 9-7. I want this team in the playoffs and more of these close losses will keep that from happening this year.

Usually I don't feel this way but too many of these close losses has me disappointed right now. Thinking of being 8-1 instead of 5-4 is kind of depressing. Especially since that could be the difference between making the playoffs and coming just short.

believe or not, we're all with you here. With the exception of the Jets game we could have won each of the other three losses...
- KW's penalty that took 6 off the board followed by Chris Brown's fumble. And personally, I'm waaay more pissed about that B/S call than I am the fumble. Because that flag took pts off the board at the end of the game.
- Schaub's pick-six was the winning score for AZ. We shut their offense out in the 2nd half. If Schaub throws that out sooner or with more velocity, we get a 1st down or maybe score. Even if it was incomplete, we live to go on to kick the winning FG.
- And we sustained so many Indy drives with penalties it ain't funny.

If we minimize these moments of cranial flatulence - and pay off a few more refs - we could very well be 8-1.

Some say rough times make you tougher. We'll see.

GP
11-10-2009, 09:28 AM
Good posts by everyone in this thread thus far. Let me see if I can ruin it.

Seriously, though:

The thing that has me the most depressed is that we have two weeks of no Texans football. That's what made THIS loss very hard for me.

Like JCTexan said, "Going into the bye week 6-3...AND us beating the Colts in their house" would have been an early Christmas present to me.

Now I'm worried that our guys will focus on the loss too long, and they won't be ready for the Titans on MNF. I wished we would have caught the Titans earlier than we are, because they are gaining swagger again.

I wish James Casey was not a rookie. And am hoping that he will be healthy and ready to play, even with his rookie mentality and the pressure of having to produce now that OD is gone. That's a lot of pressure on a guy.

I agree we SHOULD win the next two games. If we don't, it's going to be warm up in here.

DerekLee1
11-10-2009, 09:44 AM
New England
Pittsburgh
Minnesota
New Orleans

are the only teams in the NFL that are better than the Texans, IMO...

I happen to think we will beat INDY in three weeks but it's hard to argue with their consistency.. Considering the age of this team, it's an exciting time. Man, I hope there isn't a work-stoppage in 2011!

Fixed it for ya. On a neutral field with a top-notch officiating crew, we beat Indy by two touchdowns.

DerekLee1
11-10-2009, 09:50 AM
believe or not, we're all with you here. With the exception of the Jets game we could have won each of the other three losses...
- KW's penalty that took 6 off the board followed by Chris Brown's fumble. And personally, I'm waaay more pissed about that B/S call than I am the fumble. Because that flag took pts off the board at the end of the game.
- Schaub's pick-six was the winning score for AZ. We shut their offense out in the 2nd half. If Schaub throws that out sooner or with more velocity, we get a 1st down or maybe score. Even if it was incomplete, we live to go on to kick the winning FG.
- And we sustained so many Indy drives with penalties it ain't funny.

If we minimize these moments of cranial flatulence - and pay off a few more refs - we could very well be 8-1.

Some say rough times make you tougher. We'll see.

Completely agree here. And like the call on KW in the Jax game, I'm waaay more pissed at the phantom offsides call on Barwin this past Sunday, because that's the one on an incomplete pass on 3rd down that sustained Indy's game-winning drive.

HoustonFrog
11-10-2009, 10:23 AM
New England
Pittsburgh
Minnesota
New Orleans
Indianapolis...

are the only teams in the NFL that are better than the Texans, IMO...

I happen to think we will beat INDY in three weeks but it's hard to argue with their consistency.. Considering the age of this team, it's an exciting time. Man, I hope there isn't a work-stoppage in 2011!

Respect anyones opinion but I think the kool-aid must be strong. I think you can add a few more but they are definitely Top 12-15 I'd say.

DexmanC
11-10-2009, 10:51 AM
While a 3 point loss to Indy in their house is a moral victory it still ends up as a L in the W/L column.

It seems like we are just "inches" away from being a very good football team.

We get very close to sacking the qb, but just "inches" away when the ball is thrown. We get close to scoring the winning or tying TD, but end up just "inches" away.

The defense is getting very good, the offense is very good.

Not sure what the reason is. Could be because we have one of the youngest teams in the NFL and the mindset is not quite there yet. But we are close.
Seems each week we get a little bit closer.

It took Steve Young a while to get the "monkey" off his back. It is time for the Texans to get their "monkey" off their backs.

It starts with the Titans, then Indy. We need to win them both. We need to be there and not "inches" away.

Hell, even Kris Brown's field goal was wide left, by INCHES!

El Tejano
11-10-2009, 10:56 AM
Good posts by everyone in this thread thus far. Let me see if I can ruin it.

Seriously, though:

The thing that has me the most depressed is that we have two weeks of no Texans football. That's what made THIS loss very hard for me.

Like JCTexan said, "Going into the bye week 6-3...AND us beating the Colts in their house" would have been an early Christmas present to me.

Now I'm worried that our guys will focus on the loss too long, and they won't be ready for the Titans on MNF. I wished we would have caught the Titans earlier than we are, because they are gaining swagger again.

I wish James Casey was not a rookie. And am hoping that he will be healthy and ready to play, even with his rookie mentality and the pressure of having to produce now that OD is gone. That's a lot of pressure on a guy.

I agree we SHOULD win the next two games. If we don't, it's going to be warm up in here.

I kind of agree with you and kind of don't. I agree that we are meeting Tenn. at the wrong time. VY having circled our game for MNF in Houston scares me. I don't think the game against Indy has anything to do with it though. I'm more concerned that our team will lose steam from the long lay off while Tenn will be hot off a 3 game win streak.

However, I do believe that losing to Indy now will help us stay focused for Tenn to get a win back. And a win on MNF will do wonders to perhaps get a snowball effect going. Beat Tenn on MNF, gain some confidence for Indy, settle the score with Indy, go to Jville with some confidence and win, then you got Seattle and st. louis.

El Tejano
11-10-2009, 11:00 AM
Completely agree here. And like the call on KW in the Jax game, I'm waaay more pissed at the phantom offsides call on Barwin this past Sunday, because that's the one on an incomplete pass on 3rd down that sustained Indy's game-winning drive.

And it was also the only time we didn't see a replay of being offsides. You would think they would do that so they could show how great Manning was for making Barwin line up offsides.

Hervoyel
11-10-2009, 11:30 AM
I disagree. At the end of the day I think a lot of people said to themselves "Well yeah but what did you expect to happen? It's the Texans after all."

To me a close loss is no consolation. I see Colts fan coming in here today and telling us how good he thought we looked and I think "Of course you're generous with your praise. You won and continue to win in this series." I don't take any comfort in respect earned from teams that year-in and year-out own us. Of course they're happy with the status quo. Of course they're going to say "You're doing good! Keep it up and you'll get there!"

Following a loss there's nothing but bitterness and hate in my heart. Until the Texans start playing like the team everyone wants to pretend they are and do it consistently I'm not getting caught up in praising them. They've literally given away three games this season because they can't do simple things like hold on to the ball at important times, not telegraph the pass so badly that the entire stadium has 3 seconds to make the pick, and this past Sunday their offense didn't even start playing until shortly before halftime. Teams like ours may make the playoffs but they get mauled by teams that show up ready to play in the playoffs. We're at best a first round speedbump for the Patriots or Steelers. Those teams start playing at kickoff and don't stop until the last whistle blows.

Double Barrel
11-10-2009, 11:42 AM
I agree with Herv. Losses like this disgust me. It's that kind of sloppy, unfocused football that makes the difference between talented teams that win and go to the playoffs and talented teams that consistently fall short.

"Moral victories" are for teams coming off of 2-14 seasons. We got our moral victories in 2006. It's time to get beyond making losses into relative warm and fuzzy stories. A loss is a loss is a loss now, and with a 16 game schedule, each one hurts more than the last.

dalemurphy
11-10-2009, 11:47 AM
I disagree. At the end of the day I think a lot of people said to themselves "Well yeah but what did you expect to happen? It's the Texans after all."

To me a close loss is no consolation. I see Colts fan coming in here today and telling us how good he thought we looked and I think "Of course you're generous with your praise. You won and continue to win in this series." I don't take any comfort in respect earned from teams that year-in and year-out own us. Of course they're happy with the status quo. Of course they're going to say "You're doing good! Keep it up and you'll get there!"

Following a loss there's nothing but bitterness and hate in my heart. Until the Texans start playing like the team everyone wants to pretend they are and do it consistently I'm not getting caught up in praising them. They've literally given away three games this season because they can't do simple things like hold on to the ball at important times, not telegraph the pass so badly that the entire stadium has 3 seconds to make the pick, and this past Sunday their offense didn't even start playing until shortly before halftime. Teams like ours may make the playoffs but they get mauled by teams that show up ready to play in the playoffs. We're at best a first round speedbump for the Patriots or Steelers. Those teams start playing at kickoff and don't stop until the last whistle blows.

First of all, I agree with your frustration. But, when a team gets good in today's NFL, most of the games they lose are games they could've/should've won. You used Pittsburgh as an example. Okay..

Pittsburgh's 2 losses:
Chicago- had a late lead and absolutely blew the game
Cincinnati- had an 11 pt lead in the 4th quarter and blew the game.
*they also struggled with Detroit and Cleveland

New England's 2 losses:
Denver- NE had a 10 pt lead in second half and blew game in OT
NYJ- NE dominated the first half but settled for 3 FGs and led by 6.. they didn't score in the second half and allowed a rookie QB to win the game.

Minnesota lost to Pittsburgh with a redzone turnover returned for a TD.
Cincinnati totally blew a game versus Denver by giving up an 80 TD on the last play of the game



I could go on and on... Good teams win some easy ones, but they also lose a few they shouldn't. It's just the reality of being in almost every game they play. So, we're just going to have to get used to it. The only difference between the 2009 Texans and teams like New England and Pittsburgh, is that those fan bases have experienced success. As we experience more success and more of these temporary setbacks that happen also, we will learn to cope with it better.

Double Barrel
11-10-2009, 11:51 AM
Good points, Dale, but we also have to consider that those franchises KNOW how to win and expect it from themselves. We simply cannot say that about our Texans at this point in time. They are still learning how to win consistently, and to be honest, I see more 'hope to win' than 'expect to win' right now.

Hervoyel
11-10-2009, 12:04 PM
We have twice as many losses as those teams you mentioned. If we were sitting here today talking about how close our two losses were as we basked in the glow of our 7-2 record I would not be the frustrated angry fan I am now. This is what's happened to our fanbase following close to a decade of moral victories.

http://i215.photobucket.com/albums/cc272/Hervoyel/Picture1.png

Story of this team right there. Texans lose but fans still have fun. Not me. It's all wins and losses as far as I'm concerned now. Win or GTFO is my approach to fandom in 2009. I can't make "see who was there" the focus of my football hard as I may try.

Hooston Texan
11-10-2009, 12:04 PM
believe or not, we're all with you here. With the exception of the Jets game we could have won each of the other three losses...
- KW's penalty that took 6 off the board followed by Chris Brown's fumble. And personally, I'm waaay more pissed about that B/S call than I am the fumble. Because that flag took pts off the board at the end of the game.
- Schaub's pick-six was the winning score for AZ. We shut their offense out in the 2nd half. If Schaub throws that out sooner or with more velocity, we get a 1st down or maybe score. Even if it was incomplete, we live to go on to kick the winning FG.- And we sustained so many Indy drives with penalties it ain't funny.

If we minimize these moments of cranial flatulence - and pay off a few more refs - we could very well be 8-1.

Some say rough times make you tougher. We'll see.

A couple of nits to pick.

On the pick-6 against the Cardinals: it was third down. If the ball is incomplete, we are punting with about 2:30 left to go. This isn't meant to excuse the pick, but Schaub forced that throw because an incompletion meant the game was going to be in Kurt Warner's hands. Although, in hindsight, I feel far better putting our D on the field in crunch time than I did five weeks ago.

Let us also not forget that the "few plays away" door swings both ways. If we don't convert on fourth and four in Nashville and Brown misses the 50-yarder against the Niners, we are likely 3-6. And that's not even counting the Bills game where we were behind heading into the fourth quarter and the Bengal game where couldn't put them away thanks to a Slaton fumble.

imatexan
11-10-2009, 01:58 PM
Good posts by everyone in this thread thus far. Let me see if I can ruin it.

Seriously, though:

The thing that has me the most depressed is that we have two weeks of no Texans football. That's what made THIS loss very hard for me.

Like JCTexan said, "Going into the bye week 6-3...AND us beating the Colts in their house" would have been an early Christmas present to me.

Now I'm worried that our guys will focus on the loss too long, and they won't be ready for the Titans on MNF. I wished we would have caught the Titans earlier than we are, because they are gaining swagger again.

I wish James Casey was not a rookie. And am hoping that he will be healthy and ready to play, even with his rookie mentality and the pressure of having to produce now that OD is gone. That's a lot of pressure on a guy.

I agree we SHOULD win the next two games. If we don't, it's going to be warm up in here.


Dont worry GP you do not need to worry about losing to the colts or Chrismas yet.

The Texans will give you your christmas present in a more timely matter ;)

noxiousdog
11-10-2009, 02:04 PM
I agree with Herv. Losses like this disgust me. It's that kind of sloppy, unfocused football that makes the difference between talented teams that win and go to the playoffs and talented teams that consistently fall short.

"Moral victories" are for teams coming off of 2-14 seasons. We got our moral victories in 2006. It's time to get beyond making losses into relative warm and fuzzy stories. A loss is a loss is a loss now, and with a 16 game schedule, each one hurts more than the last.

I feel your pain. I really do. I was there cursing and screaming the whole game.

However, once the final whistle blows, it's all irrelevant. All that matters is how did what happened last week affect next week.

Double Barrel
11-10-2009, 02:35 PM
I feel your pain. I really do. I was there cursing and screaming the whole game.

However, once the final whistle blows, it's all irrelevant. All that matters is how did what happened last week affect next week.

oh, I do not disagree with you. When I talk of feelings like "disgust", it's all within the 'football bubble'. But it does not affect my emotions or attitude in regular life. I just turn the t.v. off when the game is over and go about living my life and enjoying the day with my kids.

I taught myself never to get too emotionally involved with a spectator sport 16+ years ago after one particularly horrible sporting event. Now I just enjoy it for what it is: entertainment.

Pantherstang84
11-10-2009, 06:43 PM
I disagree. At the end of the day I think a lot of people said to themselves "Well yeah but what did you expect to happen? It's the Texans after all."

To me a close loss is no consolation. I see Colts fan coming in here today and telling us how good he thought we looked and I think "Of course you're generous with your praise. You won and continue to win in this series." I don't take any comfort in respect earned from teams that year-in and year-out own us. Of course they're happy with the status quo. Of course they're going to say "You're doing good! Keep it up and you'll get there!"

Following a loss there's nothing but bitterness and hate in my heart. Until the Texans start playing like the team everyone wants to pretend they are and do it consistently I'm not getting caught up in praising them. They've literally given away three games this season because they can't do simple things like hold on to the ball at important times, not telegraph the pass so badly that the entire stadium has 3 seconds to make the pick, and this past Sunday their offense didn't even start playing until shortly before halftime. Teams like ours may make the playoffs but they get mauled by teams that show up ready to play in the playoffs. We're at best a first round speedbump for the Patriots or Steelers. Those teams start playing at kickoff and don't stop until the last whistle blows.

I'm Pantherstang84 and I approve this message...

Waiting for dog pile.:handshake:

BTW...I was one of Herv's critics last year but everyone has their breaking point and mine was the Buffalo game. Even though that game was a beat down, the offense didn't get off of the airplane until half time. Can the coaching staff please get this offense ready to go BEFORE the opening kick off?

vanknights2002
11-10-2009, 07:05 PM
Did anyone see how many people if took to bring A. Hill down. Man he wasn't going down with out a fight and I loved how he played when he got the chance.

Thorn
11-10-2009, 07:39 PM
Did anyone see how many people if took to bring A. Hill down. Man he wasn't going down with out a fight and I loved how he played when he got the chance.

We obviously do not lack for TE and reciever talent on this team. Now we need a good lineman or two and a legit heavy duty RB and we're all set.

DerekLee1
11-11-2009, 09:15 AM
BTW...I was one of Herv's critics last year but everyone has their breaking point and mine was the Buffalo game. Even though that game was a beat down, the offense didn't get off of the airplane until half time. Can the coaching staff please get this offense ready to go BEFORE the opening kick off?

As long as the offense ultimately puts the points on the board, I'm ok with it. I'm not so sure it's so much sluggish starts as it is halftime adjustments, and that's huge in the NFL. They come out at the beginning of the game with a plan in mind, and the opposing defense is stopping it. I don't think that's because the offense doesn't have it together; I just think the opposing defense's plans are working. So Kubes and Lil' Shanny use a vanilla offense to take a look at what the defense is throwing at them. then they adjust and attack. Take away the turnovers, and it works beautifully. The problem with our offense is giving the ball away, not the slow starts.

Pantherstang84
11-11-2009, 11:47 AM
As long as the offense ultimately puts the points on the board, I'm ok with it. I'm not so sure it's so much sluggish starts as it is halftime adjustments, and that's huge in the NFL. They come out at the beginning of the game with a plan in mind, and the opposing defense is stopping it. I don't think that's because the offense doesn't have it together; I just think the opposing defense's plans are working. So Kubes and Lil' Shanny use a vanilla offense to take a look at what the defense is throwing at them. then they adjust and attack. Take away the turnovers, and it works beautifully. The problem with our offense is giving the ball away, not the slow starts.

Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think throwing an INT in triple coverage is part of the game plan. That's just me though.

BigBull17
11-11-2009, 12:00 PM
We obviously do not lack for TE and reciever talent on this team. Now we need a good lineman or two and a legit heavy duty RB and we're all set.

We need a RB, a C, a G, FS, 1 CB(if Dunta is gone) and maybe a weakside LB.