PDA

View Full Version : The refs screwed us in Indy!


Air Canada
11-09-2009, 12:08 AM
Despite some of our own mistakes, the Colts made mistakes too and we should've still won the game.

I know all the penalties, but that's not what I'm referring to. Everyone go look at that play with the fumble by Moats! Watch it in fast motion, slo-mo, whatever...

That clearly should be Houston's ball at the 2yd line. What pisses me off about this the most is that it was challenged and for something to be reversed there has to be indisputable evidence yet the refs still #@$%^& it up...:bat:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1108/nfl_a_rmoatsts_480.jpg

Bethea is laying out of bounds and touches the ball! It is a loose ball. So if somebody is out of bounds and touching the ball, it is considered OUT OF BOUNDS. The play is over and it's Houston's ball!

:wild:

Corrosion
11-09-2009, 12:12 AM
Show me an angle that shows the defender clearly out of bounds - that picture I cant really tell

utahmark
11-09-2009, 12:17 AM
Show me an angle that shows the defender clearly out of bounds - that picture I cant really tell

if you cant tell then it should still be our ball.

Air Canada
11-09-2009, 12:18 AM
Show me an angle that shows the defender clearly out of bounds - that picture I cant really tell

He's out...I watched it on my DVR too...I found that I don't know if there is another pic of the opposite view.

That play frustrates me just seeing the highlights on tv with all the analysts calling it a fumble and not even noticing it either, well cuz they don't exactly watch the games. Too little, to late... They need to show this on NFL Networks Official Review and they better actually notice it and not favor the refs like they tend to.

qman_tx
11-09-2009, 12:20 AM
He is out! I know this was the big hurt of the game, but there was numerous mistakes on our part to lose this game.

Spled
11-09-2009, 12:22 AM
It looked like a fumble to me when I watched it live, but I can't say for sure. Kubiak was foolish to call a time out.

utahmark
11-09-2009, 12:23 AM
It looked like a fumble to me when I watched it live, but I can't say for sure. Kubiak was foolish to call a time out.

he did'nt call a time out. it was the two min warning.

Spled
11-09-2009, 12:24 AM
Thanks, my mistake.

Air Canada
11-09-2009, 12:38 AM
It looked like a fumble to me when I watched it live, but I can't say for sure. Kubiak was foolish to call a time out.

The zebras were the foolish ones! AHHHHH!!!!:scarygirl:

Goatcheese
11-09-2009, 12:40 AM
It looked like a fumble to me when I watched it live, but I can't say for sure. Kubiak was foolish to call a time out.

It was a fumble. The fumble appears to be touching Bethea while he is out of bounds, which makes it a dead ball.

Corrosion
11-09-2009, 12:44 AM
It looked like a fumble to me when I watched it live, but I can't say for sure. Kubiak was foolish to call a time out.

It looked like a fumble to me as well , the ball was coming loose before he got spun around ... Just a bad bounce , seems the Texans have a lot of those.
three fumbles within the 5 yard line this season have cost them 3 wins.


I think they beat Indy next time they meet.

Air Canada
11-09-2009, 12:45 AM
It was a fumble. The fumble appears to be touching Bethea while he is out of bounds, which makes it a dead ball.

Correct, which also makes it our ball at the 2yd line. Well at least it should've been....:bat:

TexCanada
11-09-2009, 12:54 AM
He still fumbled the ball on the 2 yard line! It sucks that the review didn't go our way, and it sucks that we didn't get a play off to avoid a review, but that doesn't change the fact that he fumbled. Too many mistakes to blame the refs. We didn't get a first down until about half way through the 2nd quarter, and we spotted them a 13-0 lead. We battled back through all that adversity, and we had a chance to win the game. Our O'line missed a crucial block which cost us that pick, and obviously the missed FG was the icing on the cake. I really don't think we have anyone to blame but ourselves. We once again only played one good half of football. We need our young players and coaches to learn from this, and carry on and play some great football down the stretch. It appears that we now have a play-off caliber defense, we just need our O to show up right from the start of the game. Play-offs are still well within our reach.

Goatcheese
11-09-2009, 12:56 AM
Correct, which also makes it our ball at the 2yd line. Well at least it should've been....:bat:

Fixed link
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/Blowncalloutofbounds.jpg

Hookem Horns
11-09-2009, 01:00 AM
It looked like a fumble to me however it doesn't really matter. Moats should have secured the ball period.

They need to get ready for the Titans and all the VY cult followers now who will be coming into the MNF with a 3 game winning streak I am sure.

Air Canada
11-09-2009, 01:05 AM
He still fumbled the ball on the 2 yard line! It sucks that the review didn't go our way, and it sucks that we didn't get a play off to avoid a review, but that doesn't change the fact that he fumbled. Too many mistakes to blame the refs. We didn't get a first down until about half way through the 2nd quarter, and we spotted them a 13-0 lead. We battled back through all that adversity, and we had a chance to win the game. Our O'line missed a crucial block which cost us that pick, and obviously the missed FG was the icing on the cake. I really don't think we have anyone to blame but ourselves. We once again only played one good half of football. We need our young players and coaches to learn from this, and carry on and play some great football down the stretch. It appears that we now have a play-off caliber defense, we just need our O to show up right from the start of the game. Play-offs are still well within our reach.

I completely disagree....

-Did we not score 17 unanswered points and comeback in this game? I think we did
-Could we have played better? Hell yeah.
-Did we make costly mistakes? Of course.

Now did the Colts make costly mistakes? Hell yes.
Did the Colts get far more breaks or no calls from the refs than the Texans? Obviously...

Just rewatch the game....

“I just know a lot of guys were getting warned on one side and there were penalties on the other,” Texans right tackle Eric Winston said. “You can’t be in the neutral zone first of all. I just keep hearing, '98 [Robert Mathis] scoot back, 98 scoot back.' I guess if you’re doing the penalties you’re going to get called.”

Now... if an official makes a crucial mistake that affects the outcome of the game that is not okay, it's unacceptable.

I just hope in Houston we get those breaks...

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 01:10 AM
edit

Hookem Horns
11-09-2009, 01:12 AM
Not to derail the thread however when did all you Canadians get here? Jump into our hockey board every once in a while. I am a huge NHL fan.

Back on topic, what exactly is the rule on this? The description they gave was something about the defender being out of bounds or touching the endzone resulting in a touchback.

TexCanada
11-09-2009, 01:12 AM
I completely disagree....

-Did we not score 17 unanswered points and comeback in this game? I think we did
-Could we have played better? Hell yeah.
-Did we make costly mistakes? Of course.

Now did the Colts make costly mistakes? Hell yes.
Did the Colts get far more breaks or no calls from the refs than the Texans? Obviously...

Just rewatch the game....

“I just know a lot of guys were getting warned on one side and there were penalties on the other,” Texans right tackle Eric Winston said. “You can’t be in the neutral zone first of all. I just keep hearing, '98 [Robert Mathis] scoot back, 98 scoot back.' I guess if you’re doing the penalties you’re going to get called.”

Now... if an official makes a crucial mistake that affects the outcome of the game that is not okay, it's unacceptable.

I just hope in Houston we get those breaks...

I agree that the reffing was garbage, I just feel that despite all that, we still had a chance to win the game but we didn't get it done. Moats still fumbled that ball!

TexCanada
11-09-2009, 01:13 AM
Not to derail the thread however when did all you Canadians get here? Jump into our hockey board every once in a while. I am a huge NHL fan.

Back on topic, what exactly is the rule on this? The description they gave was something about the defender being out of bounds or touching the endzone resulting in a touchback.

What is the hockey board site?

Hookem Horns
11-09-2009, 01:14 AM
What is the hockey board site?

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=68

Goatcheese
11-09-2009, 01:16 AM
Not to derail the thread however when did all you Canadians get here? Jump into our hockey board every once in a while. I am a huge NHL fan.

Back on topic, what exactly is the rule on this? The description they gave was something about the defender being out of bounds or touching the endzone resulting in a touchback.

The call they made was that Powers did not have both feet in bounds when he touched the ball. That meant that as soon as he touched the ball it was out of bounds as well. Since the ball was on the goal line that made it out of bounds in the endzone and a touchback.

I couldn't tell you if the ruling was correct or not, but it never should have been about that. The ball was dead at the 2 when Bethea touched it with his butt and elbow out of bounds.

Air Canada
11-09-2009, 01:19 AM
I agree that the reffing was garbage, I just feel that despite all that, we still had a chance to win the game but we didn't get it done. Moats still fumbled that ball!

True, we did, but the calls can't be excused....

Moats fumbled-true

Was the ball dead out of bounds- Also true, but "others" felt differently enough to change a play off a horrible challenge review...

Showtime100
11-09-2009, 01:27 AM
I still think Kubiak is challege challenged. The guy doesn't know what to do with a red flag and now it seems he doesn't know how to prevent one.

Sal Rosenberg
11-09-2009, 01:29 AM
True, we did, but the calls can't be excused....

Moats fumbled-true

Was the ball dead out of bounds- Also true, but "others" felt differently enough to change a play off a horrible challenge review...

I think Peyton Manning has his own rules.I wish I could quote Joey
Porter but I am too lazy.

TimeKiller
11-09-2009, 07:40 AM
You know, watching it I was thinking holy **** he fumbled before the broadcasters did and when they replayed it I thought he was out of bounds. (I didn't really know what the appropriate outcome would be, gimme a break there's like 30,000 NFL rules plus the extra 2,000 Peyton or Brady get) Suck it refs.

BigTimeTexanFan
11-09-2009, 08:29 AM
I thought if you were out of bounds you could not come back into the field of play and be the first person to touch the ball. Am I correct or does this only apply to offensive players?

utahmark
11-09-2009, 08:46 AM
I thought if you were out of bounds you could not come back into the field of play and be the first person to touch the ball. Am I correct or does this only apply to offensive players?

you have to reestablish your position. get your feet set and then you can touch the ball. doesnt matter if your first or not. your thinking of a wr, cant go out of bounds and then be the first to catch a ball.

threeputtsam
11-09-2009, 08:49 AM
It was the correct call. If Moats hadn't fumbled, we would have scored. The refs made the right call on that play. The Texans should have run a play, but they didn't.

infantrycak
11-09-2009, 08:54 AM
“I just know a lot of guys were getting warned on one side and there were penalties on the other,” Texans right tackle Eric Winston said. “You can’t be in the neutral zone first of all. I just keep hearing, '98 [Robert Mathis] scoot back, 98 scoot back.' I guess if you’re doing the penalties you’re going to get called.”

That's BS if true. Refs should not be attempting to help a team. We were commenting during the game how they were lining up incorrectly and now to hear the refs were assisting them is infuriating.

I still think Kubiak is challege challenged. The guy doesn't know what to do with a red flag and now it seems he doesn't know how to prevent one.

How the heck do you prevent one? Is he supposed to sneak over to the booth and whisper in the refs ear, have a little Goodfellas money waiting to sneak him, what?

It was the correct call. If Moats hadn't fumbled, we would have scored. The refs made the right call on that play. The Texans should have run a play, but they didn't.

No it wasn't. Don't even know how someone can argue it was the correct call. The photos have been posted. It was a fumble. It was touched by an opposing player while he was out of bounds.

silvrhand
11-09-2009, 08:58 AM
That's BS if true. Refs should not be attempting to help a team. We were commenting during the game how they were lining up incorrectly and now to hear the refs were assisting them is infuriating.

How the heck do you prevent one? Is he supposed to sneak over to the booth and whisper in the refs ear, have a little Goodfellas money waiting to sneak him, what?

No it wasn't. Don't even know how someone can argue it was the correct call. The photos have been posted. It was a fumble. It was touched by an opposing player while he was out of bounds.

Blaming the refs is ridiculous, the refs have always assisted people with lining up on the line of scrimmage heck even when I played college you could get an assist if you want, just depends on the ref and that is how the game is played.

He should have NEVER fumbled the ball in the first place.
We should have RAN a play after that.
We made two mistakes and got busted on it, how can the refs be blamed for that?

hollywood_texan
11-09-2009, 09:01 AM
How the heck do you prevent one? Is he supposed to sneak over to the booth and whisper in the refs ear, have a little Goodfellas money waiting to sneak him, what?

Run a play to eliminate a booth review.

El Tejano
11-09-2009, 09:01 AM
Blaming the refs is ridiculous, the refs have always assisted people with lining up on the line of scrimmage heck even when I played college you could get an assist if you want, just depends on the ref and that is how the game is played.

He should have NEVER fumbled the ball in the first place.
We should have RAN a play after that.
We made two mistakes and got busted on it, how can the refs be blamed for that?

I agree 100%. Also, the argument that the ball was touched by a player out who was out of bounds doesn't hold up because the ball started coming out before that. It was fumble.

The only argument I have is the Connor Barwin offsides penalty. It sure was convenient and we didn't even get a replay of it. Just a move along guys.

Pantherstang84
11-09-2009, 09:03 AM
It's funny. Several people have posted they they were screaming at the TV to run the play. I was screaming it as soon as the ball came loose because well it was Indy and the refs were already in the tank.

It's situational awareness. Here is the situation...

1. Thee ball had come loose.
2. It was Lucas Oil stadium.
3. The refs were calling the game one sided.

Even you had thought the ball was out of bounds, get up there and run the dang play to eliminate the possibility. It was 2nd down. You had a down to waste anyway.

HOU-TEX
11-09-2009, 09:05 AM
(on the fumble challenge) "Yeah, actually we didn't even know until the play had been stopped because and it got to the two-minute warning that there even was an issue. Someone in the press box said, 'I think they are looking at the ball right.' We thought that Ryan (Moats) was out of bounds. But the way it was explained to me was that, the ball did come out. Nobody argued that. We felt like the players were out of bounds that were touching the ball. and what they said was that Ryan was on top of whoever that player was. They said he was on top of that player and so technically he was not out of bounds. He's still in the field of play. So that's the way it was explained to me."

I knew it was a fumble when it happened. It can be argued whether or not it was out of bounds or not. What can't be argued is how dumb it was for Schaub to allow the clock to run down to the 2 minute warning. That pissed me off, somebody up in the box should've known it was questionable and passed the word down to hurry the **** up.

As it went to commercial I knew there would be a challenge when it came back to the game.

Thank God there's a bye week. I need a damn break myself.

JDizzle
11-09-2009, 09:08 AM
I knew it was a fumble when it happened. It can be argued whether or not it was out of bounds or not. What can't be argued is how dumb it was for Schaub to allow the clock to run down to the 2 minute warning. That pissed me off, somebody up in the box should've known it was questionable and passed the word down to hurry the **** up.


Actually, per Matt himself he said that the call to let the clock wind down came in from whoever calls plays into the headset. He wanted to get a play off, however.

infantrycak
11-09-2009, 09:19 AM
Blaming the refs is ridiculous, the refs have always assisted people with lining up on the line of scrimmage heck even when I played college you could get an assist if you want, just depends on the ref and that is how the game is played.

Sure that's normal - not. I mean obviously the Texans are just dumbasses who refused to listen to the refs assisting them when they kept getting called for lining up offsides.

Run a play to eliminate a booth review.

It wasn't a booth review.

I agree 100%. Also, the argument that the ball was touched by a player out who was out of bounds doesn't hold up because the ball started coming out before that. It was fumble.

Not saying it wasn't a fumble - it was. The point is as the pictures above show, the ball is contacted after it is fumbled by a player who is out of bounds and therefore should have been down at that spot.

hollywood_texan
11-09-2009, 09:20 AM
It wasn't a booth review.



The point is get to the line of scrimmage and run a play to prevent an overturn of the call on the field.

Kubiak gave the Colts plenty of time to consider a challenge.

Porky
11-09-2009, 09:30 AM
Kubiak is brain dead. Absoueltely brian dead. This is a pattern. Whether the refs blew the call or not is irrelevent - or it should have been. He has no situational awareness whatsoever. Granted, if there was no controverial play sure let the clock run down to give Indy less time to try and get points at the end and I am sure that is what he was thinking.....however you have to understand the situation. If there is any doubt at all about the previous play, you run up and run the damn play and keep possession. Worst case, you have 3 points. Last time I looked 3 is more than zero.

If this was the first time, I'd give the guy a pass. But how many times have we seen this happen. If I had a dollar for every time I was yelling at the TV screen "Run a play, Run a *$#%@!damn play", I would probably be sipping MaiTai's in Honalulu while watching a hula dancer in a grass skirt. :bat:

Dread-Head
11-09-2009, 09:37 AM
I'm amazed they didn't call the obvious HORSE COLLAR on the play. He clearly reached into Moates' pads to bring him down.

Pantherstang84
11-09-2009, 09:39 AM
I'm amazed they didn't call the obvious HORSE COLLAR on the play. He clearly reached into Moates' pads to bring him down.

Really? You're amazed they didn't call it? Seriously?

DerekLee1
11-09-2009, 09:43 AM
The one that got me the most was the phantom offsides call on Conner Barwin. It was on Indy's game-winning drive and it was 3rd and 3. It would have killed the drive and given us the ball back. About 3 seconds after Manning threw in incomplete pass, a yellow flag flew. "Offsides, 98 on the defense". I replayed that over and over and over. The defensive line was perfectly straight, and NOT in the neutral zone, and nobody on our side of the ball budged until that ball moved. It was a completely made-up call that allowed them to continue on to a touchdown. That one sickened me.

DerekLee1
11-09-2009, 09:47 AM
Kubiak is brain dead. Absoueltely brian dead. This is a pattern. Whether the refs blew the call or not is irrelevent - or it should have been. He has no situational awareness whatsoever. Granted, if there was no controverial play sure let the clock run down to give Indy less time to try and get points at the end and I am sure that is what he was thinking.....however you have to understand the situation. If there is any doubt at all about the previous play, you run up and run the damn play and keep possession. Worst case, you have 3 points. Last time I looked 3 is more than zero.

If this was the first time, I'd give the guy a pass. But how many times have we seen this happen. If I had a dollar for every time I was yelling at the TV screen "Run a play, Run a *$#%@!damn play", I would probably be sipping MaiTai's in Honalulu while watching a hula dancer in a grass skirt. :bat:

Because they don't have the benefit of replay on the field like we do at home, and no one in that stadium thought it was a fumble until they showed it on TV. By then, radio communication to the QB was cut off, and we had no chance.

The rule needs to be changed. 2-minute warnings and TV timeouts should not be allowed to be used for coaches and staff to review replays. Only a timeout should be allowed to extend the time allowable to throw a red flag.

Pantherstang84
11-09-2009, 09:48 AM
The one that got me the most was the phantom offsides call on Conner Barwin. It was on Indy's game-winning drive and it was 3rd and 3. It would have killed the drive and given us the ball back. About 3 seconds after Manning threw in incomplete pass, a yellow flag flew. "Offsides, 98 on the defense". I replayed that over and over and over. The defensive line was perfectly straight, and NOT in the neutral zone, and nobody on our side of the ball budged until that ball moved. It was a completely made-up call that allowed them to continue on to a touchdown. That one sickened me.

That one tore the mask off of what was really going on yesterday. So blatantly obvious.

Dread-Head
11-09-2009, 09:52 AM
Really? You're amazed they didn't call it? Seriously?

:sarcasm:

There fixed it for ya. The game I want to see is The Colts v. New England. I'm sure the refs heads will be exploding as they won't be able to decide whether to give a hummer to Brady or Manning first.

DerekLee1
11-09-2009, 09:55 AM
The game the NFL wants to see is The undefeated Colts v. New England.

Fixed it for ya.

The NFL wants to see NE be the team to break the Colts' winning streak to fuel the rivalry fire, not the Texans.

Porky
11-09-2009, 11:05 AM
Because they don't have the benefit of replay on the field like we do at home, and no one in that stadium thought it was a fumble until they showed it on TV. By then, radio communication to the QB was cut off, and we had no chance.

The rule needs to be changed. 2-minute warnings and TV timeouts should not be allowed to be used for coaches and staff to review replays. Only a timeout should be allowed to extend the time allowable to throw a red flag.

Granted, but clearly the ball came out at some point, the question was when. The refs initially ruled it in our favor. It was close. He couldn't see from the sideline when it came out. So you run a damn play and don't look back. I understand he couldn't positively say at that point. What I am saying is don't wait until that point - because at that point, guess what? The opposition knows too and then it's too damn late. When you are down there trying to come back it's too important to leave to chance. Run a quick play. Call a sneak, anything simple and run the damn play. Sorry but I can't agree with your premise. Good coaches get that done.

HoustonFrog
11-09-2009, 11:10 AM
Because they don't have the benefit of replay on the field like we do at home, and no one in that stadium thought it was a fumble until they showed it on TV. By then, radio communication to the QB was cut off, and we had no chance.

The rule needs to be changed. 2-minute warnings and TV timeouts should not be allowed to be used for coaches and staff to review replays. Only a timeout should be allowed to extend the time allowable to throw a red flag.

Why?The 2 minut ewarning is as much a part of the game as timeouts, etc. Everyone in the stadium knows its coming. So you either make up your mind and run a play or you take your chances.

As for the ref complaints. Please stop. The Texans have gotten plenty of calls/non-calls this year and they have had some go against them. It's tyhe nature of the beast. The 11 or whatever called on them were legit. The interceptions legit. The offenses inability to work in the first half..legit. Those are what loses games. There is no guarantee those "missed" calls were going to change the outcome.

Farough
11-09-2009, 11:18 AM
I thought there was a rule of if the whistle blew that the play was dead?
He didnt piick up the ball until after the whistle had gone. I don't know if that rule is still in effect or not, but either way, with it or without it the call should have still gone our way(with him being out of bounds being tackled)

bigpun91
11-09-2009, 11:18 AM
no has said anything about the two dely of game flags that were not thrown on the last drive when the colts player was laying on the reciever, and the next play where the colts player was trying to hit the ball loose after the play was over

Showtime100
11-09-2009, 11:26 AM
That's BS if true. Refs should not be attempting to help a team. We were commenting during the game how they were lining up incorrectly and now to hear the refs were assisting them is infuriating.



How the heck do you prevent one? Is he supposed to sneak over to the booth and whisper in the refs ear, have a little Goodfellas money waiting to sneak him, what?



No it wasn't. Don't even know how someone can argue it was the correct call. The photos have been posted. It was a fumble. It was touched by an opposing player while he was out of bounds.

Run a play to eliminate a booth review.

The point is get to the line of scrimmage and run a play to prevent an overturn of the call on the field.

Kubiak gave the Colts plenty of time to consider a challenge.

Thanks HW, I didn't think it was that difficult to understand but oh well. :)

DerekLee1
11-09-2009, 11:37 AM
As for the ref complaints. Please stop. The Texans have gotten plenty of calls/non-calls this year and they have had some go against them. It's tyhe nature of the beast. The 11 or whatever called on them were legit. The interceptions legit. The offenses inability to work in the first half..legit. Those are what loses games. There is no guarantee those "missed" calls were going to change the outcome.

Calls and non-calls are part of the game, yes. But a phantom offsides call on a flag thrown 3 seconds after a winning-drive-killing incomplete pass DOES change the game. As does a non-call horse-collar tackle on a 3rd-and 18. As does a non-call slap to the facemask on an INT as the Texans are driving down the field. A non-call on the delay of game on the Colts for holding Jacoby Jones down when he's trying to get back to the LOS to throw the spike would have made a 5-yard difference in the field goal try. You can't tell me those non-calls wouldn't have made a difference.

Sorry, but a 13-4 Texans-Colts penalty ratio is too much to ignore. And hearing Winston tell us how the refs were telling Mathis "back up, 98, back up" yet throw the flags on US? That's just flat out wrong. Yes we had our chances, and we blew some. But we made up for those, and the bogus officiating just made it too difficult to overcome.

Air Canada
11-09-2009, 03:36 PM
Calls and non-calls are part of the game, yes. But a phantom offsides call on a flag thrown 3 seconds after a winning-drive-killing incomplete pass DOES change the game. As does a non-call horse-collar tackle on a 3rd-and 18. As does a non-call slap to the facemask on an INT as the Texans are driving down the field. A non-call on the delay of game on the Colts for holding Jacoby Jones down when he's trying to get back to the LOS to throw the spike would have made a 5-yard difference in the field goal try. You can't tell me those non-calls wouldn't have made a difference.

Sorry, but a 13-4 Texans-Colts penalty ratio is too much to ignore. And hearing Winston tell us how the refs were telling Mathis "back up, 98, back up" yet throw the flags on US? That's just flat out wrong. Yes we had our chances, and we blew some. But we made up for those, and the bogus officiating just made it too difficult to overcome.

This is true...it's a fact they were not calling the same things on the Colts that they were calling on us...including the phantom penalty...

The challenge for the Moats fumble still will piss me off since THEY GOT IT WRONG and changed the outcome of a review! I just wish the media would notice that about the play, but they won't and no one will except us fans who actually analyze the game. It's freaking obvious...:runaway:

b0ng
11-10-2009, 08:39 AM
Good teams overcome ****ty officiating.

At least that's what I like to tell myself anyway.

GP
11-10-2009, 09:00 AM
Why?The 2 minut ewarning is as much a part of the game as timeouts, etc. Everyone in the stadium knows its coming. So you either make up your mind and run a play or you take your chances.

As for the ref complaints. Please stop. The Texans have gotten plenty of calls/non-calls this year and they have had some go against them. It's tyhe nature of the beast. The 11 or whatever called on them were legit. The interceptions legit. The offenses inability to work in the first half..legit. Those are what loses games. There is no guarantee those "missed" calls were going to change the outcome.

You're right about the majority of games that are lost.

But there are times, such as this game, where the calls definitely influenced the outcome.

This game was almost a mirror of the Cards game: We couldn't do anything in the first half, the opposing offense was moving the ball at will in the first half against our defense. Then, in the 2nd half, things tightened up.

The difference between this game and the Cards game was that the Colts game had a fairly large amount of questionable calls that helped the home team. It was bad.

You watch as an observer, because your team is the Cowboys. I watch as a full-fledged fan of this team. I know when we "deserve" what we get, and I know when we don't stand a chance because of a third party influencing the game. That game was atrociously one-sided. There's at least 4 or 5 influential calls that the refs missed or enforced when they shouldn't have.

Schaub was hit in the head. That's a 15-yarder and NO interception. So stop saying that the calls don't matter. On top of all the other ones, THAT call matters the most.

You can't apply your "refs don't decide games" doctrine across the board. Most times, the calls come out even or are warranted and do not influence the game. I have no problem with the Cards game.

This game? I had grown accustomed to NOT celebrating a good play by our offense or defense until the next play was snapped. I was automatically waiting for the obligatory flag to be thrown at us. Throw in the crybaby Colst crowd whining an dpining for a flag every time their super-hero didn't complete a pass, and it was just a long, long day for a Texans fan.

HoustonFrog
11-10-2009, 09:38 AM
You're right about the majority of games that are lost.

But there are times, such as this game, where the calls definitely influenced the outcome.

This game was almost a mirror of the Cards game: We couldn't do anything in the first half, the opposing offense was moving the ball at will in the first half against our defense. Then, in the 2nd half, things tightened up.

The difference between this game and the Cards game was that the Colts game had a fairly large amount of questionable calls that helped the home team. It was bad.

You watch as an observer, because your team is the Cowboys. I watch as a full-fledged fan of this team. I know when we "deserve" what we get, and I know when we don't stand a chance because of a third party influencing the game. That game was atrociously one-sided. There's at least 4 or 5 influential calls that the refs missed or enforced when they shouldn't have.

Schaub was hit in the head. That's a 15-yarder and NO interception. So stop saying that the calls don't matter. On top of all the other ones, THAT call matters the most.

You can't apply your "refs don't decide games" doctrine across the board. Most times, the calls come out even or are warranted and do not influence the game. I have no problem with the Cards game.

This game? I had grown accustomed to NOT celebrating a good play by our offense or defense until the next play was snapped. I was automatically waiting for the obligatory flag to be thrown at us. Throw in the crybaby Colst crowd whining an dpining for a flag every time their super-hero didn't complete a pass, and it was just a long, long day for a Texans fan.

But I do know games that are badly officiated. The Cowboys are one of the most penalized teams in the league. They have been for 2 years. Alot of it is deserved because they make mental errors...jumping offsides, etc. But there were a few calls that were b.s. against them this Philly game...a non-call pass interference where Roy Williams had one arm locked in a hold by the DB in the end zone. In the end, in a sloppy, pretty boring game, they pulled it off. That hasn't happened in a bit.

As I said elsewhere I know some games are badly officiated and I think there Are some games over the years where it was REALLY bad where outcomes were slanted. But I just didn't see it enough here. Not because I don't pay attention. I watch all games closely. There is an interest. But because I think many penalties are ones that are borderline and the NFL isn't consistent enough with their refs to get it right across the board. In the first Titans game the Texans got plenty of calls their way. Just like it is cool to point out that I'm a casual fan here, it is right to point out that the refs aren't looked at so harshly or critically when it goes the other way.

My main problem is this is the 3rd tight game where the Texans lost where I've seen multiple ref threads. That is pretty coincidental in my book when it comes to looking for reasons as to "why" they lost. I'm not making light of it. I'm here because I like it. But I just think that a pattern of crying of "foul" over a season turns people into the fans they claim they dislike....just like your example of Colts fans and in basketball, Jazz fans. I think when the Texans get over the hump then they win these games. It is a process.

Air Canada
11-10-2009, 03:42 PM
But I do know games that are badly officiated. The Cowboys are one of the most penalized teams in the league. They have been for 2 years. Alot of it is deserved because they make mental errors...jumping offsides, etc. But there were a few calls that were b.s. against them this Philly game...a non-call pass interference where Roy Williams had one arm locked in a hold by the DB in the end zone. In the end, in a sloppy, pretty boring game, they pulled it off. That hasn't happened in a bit.

As I said elsewhere I know some games are badly officiated and I think there Are some games over the years where it was REALLY bad where outcomes were slanted. But I just didn't see it enough here. Not because I don't pay attention. I watch all games closely. There is an interest. But because I think many penalties are ones that are borderline and the NFL isn't consistent enough with their refs to get it right across the board. In the first Titans game the Texans got plenty of calls their way. Just like it is cool to point out that I'm a casual fan here, it is right to point out that the refs aren't looked at so harshly or critically when it goes the other way.

My main problem is this is the 3rd tight game where the Texans lost where I've seen multiple ref threads. That is pretty coincidental in my book when it comes to looking for reasons as to "why" they lost. I'm not making light of it. I'm here because I like it. But I just think that a pattern of crying of "foul" over a season turns people into the fans they claim they dislike....just like your example of Colts fans and in basketball, Jazz fans. I think when the Texans get over the hump then they win these games. It is a process.

Your wrong here my man...I don't see a lot of people pointing to the refs as the reason why we lost to the Jets, Cards, even Jags. Those were legitimate and we just lost those games and that's even the Jags one with the tough call at the end. This game was ridiculously one-sided in the officiating favoring the home team. You mentioned the Cowboys-Eagles game and I watched that game and yes they got away with a PI on Roy, but Philly also got bad calls just the same in that game. Things were not overwhelmingly in the Eagles favor as it clearly was in Indy with the Texans.

HoustonFrog
11-10-2009, 03:56 PM
Your wrong here my man...I don't see a lot of people pointing to the refs as the reason why we lost to the Jets, Cards, even Jags. Those were legitimate and we just lost those games and that's even the Jags one with the tough call at the end. This game was ridiculously one-sided in the officiating favoring the home team. You mentioned the Cowboys-Eagles game and I watched that game and yes they got away with a PI on Roy, but Philly also got bad calls just the same in that game. Things were not overwhelmingly in the Eagles favor as it clearly was in Indy with the Texans.

Not if you go back and look at the threads and saw some of the stuff that was being written.

Again, I'm fine with your opinion on it. I'm not a big fan of refs in general. But I just try and temper my disgust because with each call changed, etc comes different situations for each team so you still never know how a game plays out. You can't put it in a vacuum and say(using the fumble as an example)..."well we would have scored there and won because of what we did in the 2nd half." You don't know if you would have scored for one and secondly it then puts the Colts in a different position..maybe they play more hurry up...maybe they adjust differently and run less. That is why I hate the arguments because with each decision the game situations change.

BTW, here are some threads from weeks past since you seemed to have missed them

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65702&highlight=refs

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65270&highlight=refs

wagonhed
11-10-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm just wondering if anyone can point me towards pics or video of some of the bad calls last Sunday... especially the Connor Barwin offsides.

Air Canada
11-10-2009, 04:34 PM
Not if you go back and look at the threads and saw some of the stuff that was being written.

Again, I'm fine with your opinion on it. I'm not a big fan of refs in general. But I just try and temper my disgust because with each call changed, etc comes different situations for each team so you still never know how a game plays out.

BTW, here are some threads from weeks past since you seemed to have missed them

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65702&highlight=refs

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65270&highlight=refs

Most people would disagree with those for the most part...The claims in both those threads were to the refs making a specific bad call at the end in the Jags or Cards game in regards to the PI or ball spot.... The Jags game had that questionable call just at the end. For anyone to blame the Zona loss on the refs is ridiculous as we lost it fair and square. We could have just tied the game in those end of game situations. I'm saying the refs screwed around this game cuz it was obvious.

The Colts game was different as a whole cuz it was officiated poorly and clearly lopsided for the home team with just obvious bad calls to point out all around unlike those games.


You can't put it in a vacuum and say(using the fumble as an example)..."well we would have scored there and won because of what we did in the 2nd half." You don't know if you would have scored for one and secondly it then puts the Colts in a different position..maybe they play more hurry up...maybe they adjust differently and run less. That is why I hate the arguments because with each decision the game situations change.

That's not much of a point as it still influences the game largely....

Yes, with each decision it changes, but with each mistake by a ref the game situations heavily change in favor of the team that benefits. Yes, we may not have scored at the 2yd line, but it's a lot more likely that we do if we have the ball instead of Indy being given the ball there don't you think?

TimeKiller
11-10-2009, 04:43 PM
I'm just wondering if anyone can point me towards pics or video of some of the bad calls last Sunday... especially the Connor Barwin offsides.
How 'bout his unnecessary roughness on a kickoff? That colt hit him after the whistle and Connor just rolled with the punches and put the boy on the ground. Only one to get flagged? The Texan.

Speaking of bad calls on kickoffs, how 'bout the holding on Jesse Nading? On the replay JJ runs to about the 20, gets about as close to a horse collar tackle as you can get with no call and not once is Nading seen on tv. So he's like...15, 20 yards upfield from the play? That's really, really tacky.

silvrhand
11-10-2009, 11:45 PM
That's not much of a point as it still influences the game largely....

Yes, with each decision it changes, but with each mistake by a ref the game situations heavily change in favor of the team that benefits. Yes, we may not have scored at the 2yd line, but it's a lot more likely that we do if we have the ball instead of Indy being given the ball there don't you think?

Even with the bad calls we were still in a position to win the game and could not find a way to win it, good teams find a way to win, even when everything else has gone wrong. The colts could have put us away but we hung in there and they left the door open for us to take the game, and we couldn't do it.

Hopefully we'll put a stomping on them when they come into the Texans stadium but right now we need to focus against the Titans, they are starting to look good again and we can't afford to lose to them.

infantrycak
11-11-2009, 12:32 AM
Even with the bad calls we were still in a position to win the game and could not find a way to win it, good teams find a way to win, even when everything else has gone wrong. The colts could have put us away but we hung in there and they left the door open for us to take the game, and we couldn't do it.

Hopefully we'll put a stomping on them when they come into the Texans stadium but right now we need to focus against the Titans, they are starting to look good again and we can't afford to lose to them.

Platitudes aside is this really correct? You going to tell me the Cowboys in Super Bowl V weren't a good team? - or that a ref giving the ball to the Colts after a Cowboy jumps on a fumble on the 1 and then runs out with the ball and somehow it gets called Colts ball didn't affect the outcome. Ref calls can definitely affect a game. I understand HoustonFrog not wanting to let it become some homer contest for one-sided complaints, but if a particular game is called one-sided it can definitely affect the outcome. That is even more true where a good team is on the bass end of the calls while playing a very good or great team.

DerekLee1
11-11-2009, 07:55 AM
Platitudes aside is this really correct? You going to tell me the Cowboys in Super Bowl V weren't a good team? - or that a ref giving the ball to the Colts after a Cowboy jumps on a fumble on the 1 and then runs out with the ball and somehow it gets called Colts ball didn't affect the outcome. Ref calls can definitely affect a game. I understand HoustonFrog not wanting to let it become some homer contest for one-sided complaints, but if a particular game is called one-sided it can definitely affect the outcome. That is even more true where a good team is on the bass end of the calls while playing a very good or great team.

And non-calls affect an outcome every bit as much as calls. Hitting us for offsides after offsides while only warning the Colts ("back up, 98, back up") is beyond words. That alone could have been the difference in the game. 13 calls to the Colts' 4 is too lopsided. Especially since we average only 5 penalties a game this season.

Anyone notice how "Official Review" was conspicuously missing from NFL Total Access this week?

DerekLee1
11-11-2009, 07:57 AM
Here's a look at the Texans' penalties this season, game by game ("one of these things is not like the others...":

Date Opponent Penalties Yards
Sept. 13 vs. Jets 6 37
Sept. 20 at Titans 6 40
Sept. 27 vs. Jaguars 5 60
Oct. 4 vs. Raiders 1 5
Oct. 11 at Cardinals 6 53
Oct. 18 at Bengals 7 60
Oct. 25 vs. 49ers 7 77
Nov. 1 at Bills 5 45
Nov. 8 at Colts 13 103

DerekLee1
11-11-2009, 08:03 AM
I'm not saying there's some great conspiracy to predetermine outcomes or anything, but I think, like with superstars in the NBA, there is clear favoritism by officials in the NFL. Games are not called straight until they're in the national spotlight. You put this same game on prime time with a top crew, and we win by 2 touchdowns or more.

HoustonFrog
11-11-2009, 08:17 AM
Platitudes aside is this really correct? You going to tell me the Cowboys in Super Bowl V weren't a good team? - or that a ref giving the ball to the Colts after a Cowboy jumps on a fumble on the 1 and then runs out with the ball and somehow it gets called Colts ball didn't affect the outcome. Ref calls can definitely affect a game. I understand HoustonFrog not wanting to let it become some homer contest for one-sided complaints, but if a particular game is called one-sided it can definitely affect the outcome. That is even more true where a good team is on the bass end of the calls while playing a very good or great team.

Thanks for stating this. I want to clarify some things about my statements. I DO think refs can affect outcomes in games. My whole beef though has been using it as a crutch when things seem not to go your way. I try to stay level-headed and am not one for excuses. The ref stuff can eat you up. Just because my opinion on the fumble, etc is different doesn't mean I don't think there can be bad crews. I am one that has RAILED officiating in the NFL for years because they have cadavers that sell insurance on the side running up and down the field trying to regulate massive men that run 4.3s. I also see holding on almost every offensive play and yet it goes unchecked so I think the "ref screwed us meter" can become stronger in close games. I have seen these threads 3 games now and that is bothersome when you have a team that underperformed for a full half, had turnovers and was legitimately penalized an inordinate amount of times. You clean up your own act and the refs might not be a factor.

Overall though I still think there are games like the Seattle v Pitt SB that were affected by refs and others where the calls or non-calls were so egregious that it took away from the game.

Here's a look at the Texans' penalties this season, game by game ("one of these things is not like the others...":

Date Opponent Penalties Yards
Sept. 13 vs. Jets 6 37
Sept. 20 at Titans 6 40
Sept. 27 vs. Jaguars 5 60
Oct. 4 vs. Raiders 1 5
Oct. 11 at Cardinals 6 53
Oct. 18 at Bengals 7 60
Oct. 25 vs. 49ers 7 77
Nov. 1 at Bills 5 45
Nov. 8 at Colts 13 103

See, this is what I'm talking about above. I really don't care if people have a problem with non-calls against the Colts but the Texns earned the 13 penalties. I've yet to hear how that is disputed. They made their own dumb plays.

DerekLee1
11-11-2009, 08:29 AM
See, this is what I'm talking about above. I really don't care if people have a problem with non-calls against the Colts but the Texns earned the 13 penalties. I've yet to hear how that is disputed. They made their own dumb plays.

But they DIDN'T earn all 13 penalties. 6 or 7, yes. But there were at least two or three phantom "offsides" or "neutral zone" infractions that were bogus (the Connor Barwin one on the Colts' game-winning drive in particular), a "defensive holding" that wasn't, and a "personal foul" for a head hit that shouldn't have been because there was no other way to defend it (the defender wasn't leading with his helmet; Reggie Wayne turned his head INTO the hit as it was coming). Those were huge and DID affect the outcome.

And for the refs to penalize the Texans, yet "WARN" the Colts for the EXACT SAME INFRACTIONS?!? How can you NOT have a problem with that? Non-calls on holds, offsides, neutral zones, and horse-collar tackles certainly killed multiple Texans drives.

BigTimeTexanFan
11-11-2009, 08:53 AM
[QUOTE=DerekLee1;1298383]And non-calls affect an outcome every bit as much as calls. Hitting us for offsides after offsides while only warning the Colts ("back up, 98, back up") is beyond words. That alone could have been the difference in the game. 13 calls to the Colts' 4 is too lopsided. Especially since we average only 5 penalties a game this season.

Anyone notice how "Official Review" was conspicuously missing from NFL Total Access this week?


I think it comes on tonight.

infantrycak
11-11-2009, 09:00 AM
You clean up your own act and the refs might not be a factor.

Generally true, but then again it is also true that you aren't supposed to have to play the refs and the opposing team.

I really don't care if people have a problem with non-calls against the Colts but the Texns earned the 13 penalties. I've yet to hear how that is disputed. They made their own dumb plays.

People have mentioned several of the plays which were not earned.

For example, as has been mentioned on 3rd and 1 with Houston up 17 to 13 at the beginning of the 4th quarter, the offsides on Conner Barwin giving the Colts a 1st down after Manning had thrown an incomplete pass. The whole transaction on this play was weird. Normally a ref that sees that throws the flag at the very beginning of the play. This time the flag didn't fly until the ball had been ruled an incompletion. He wasn't lined up off-sides and that one wasn't earned. Then the piece of the story really calling the neutrality of the ref in to play is hearing he was warning Mathis repeatedly. Now that's fine if he does it for everyone but it doesn't appear to be the case.

(the Connor Barwin one on the Colts' game-winning drive in particular)

There were no penalties on the Colts TD drive to go to 20 points. Barwin was flagged on the prior possession immediately proceeding Pollard picking the ball. Didn't affect the game (although the ref didn't know that when he was handing them a free set of downs) but it is a good example of an unearned call.

HoustonFrog
11-11-2009, 09:06 AM
Generally true, but then again it is also true that you aren't supposed to have to play the refs and the opposing team.

People have mentioned several of the plays which were not earned.

For example, as has been mentioned on 3rd and 1 with Houston up 17 to 13 at the beginning of the 4th quarter, the offsides on Conner Barwin giving the Colts a 1st down after Manning had thrown an incomplete pass. The whole transaction on this play was weird. Normally a ref that sees that throws the flag at the very beginning of the play. This time the flag didn't fly until the ball had been ruled an incompletion. He wasn't lined up off-sides and that one wasn't earned. Then the piece of the story really calling the neutrality of the ref in to play is hearing he was warning Mathis repeatedly. Now that's fine if he does it for everyone but it doesn't appear to be the case.

I respect and trust your view and if this was true, then that stinks. I personally didn't catch that one. But as I said above, I'm just more concerned at times about how the Texans come out flat, make some of their own mistakes and have the turnovers. The refs can throw you off your game. I know you aren't doing this but I just think the emphasis for some shouldn't be on the refs and should be on what the Texans did that caused more of the problem. Again, I respect the opinion.

But they DIDN'T earn all 13 penalties. 6 or 7, yes. But there were at least two or three phantom "offsides" or "neutral zone" infractions that were bogus (the Connor Barwin one on the Colts' game-winning drive in particular), a "defensive holding" that wasn't, and a "personal foul" for a head hit that shouldn't have been because there was no other way to defend it (the defender wasn't leading with his helmet; Reggie Wayne turned his head INTO the hit as it was coming). Those were huge and DID affect the outcome.

And for the refs to penalize the Texans, yet "WARN" the Colts for the EXACT SAME INFRACTIONS?!? How can you NOT have a problem with that? Non-calls on holds, offsides, neutral zones, and horse-collar tackles certainly killed multiple Texans drives.

OK, so you bring it down to 10 penalties....still too many. I'm not making light of your complaints, just that the blame is a little misplaced when you look at how the Texans played. As for the personal foul...you can give up on that. The league is going to throw a flag no matter the intent or how the player was playing it. Helmet to helmet...shoulder to helmet..whatever..will get called most of the time.

infantrycak
11-11-2009, 09:48 AM
Just for giggles, tried to look to see where you could argue the outcome might have been affected:

1st Indy poss - 1 meaningless Houston penalty - 0 points
1st Hou poss - 0 penalties - 0 points
2nd Indy poss - 1 penalty each team. PI on Dunta on 3rd and 3 certainly significant to drive but not a bad call - 7 points
2nd Hou poss - 0 penalties - 0 points
3rd Indy poss - 2 penalties on Houston (1 other penalty was called on each team but were declined) - back to back offsides on Smith (nullifying a sack by Cushing and giving Indy a 1st down) and then on Mario. So was the ref warning our guys? I wouldn't call them game changers as Indy was in field goal range already and that is what they went away with - 3 points
3rd Hou poss - 1 penalty on each - nothing unearned/significant - 0 points
4th Indy poss - back to back plays 3 penalties on Hou with the last being offset by a penalty on Indy. First one significant as defensive holding on Cushing gave Indy a 1st down on an incomplete pass on 3rd and 2. I thought the call on Cushing was ticky tack but eh... - 3 points
4th Hou poss - 0 penalties - 0 points
5th Indy poss - 0 penalties - 0 points
5th Hou poss - 1 penalty on Indy plus I still don't like the fumble call but - 0 points
6th Indy poss - 1 penalty on Hou on what I would call a bad unnecessary roughness call. Arguably significant because it gave Indy a 1st down on an incomplete 3rd and 10 pass so 50 more seconds go off the clock but Manning later INT'd so - 0 points
6th Hou poss - 1 penalty Hou/JJ offsides and clock running out so FG - 3 points
Half time
7th Hou poss - 1 penalty on Hou - 7 points
7th Indy poss - 1 penalty on Hou - 0 points
8th Hou poss - 0 penalties - 7 points
8th Indy poss - 1 penalty on Hou (the Barwin phantom off-sides) followed by INT - 0 points
9th Hou poss - 0 penalties - 0 points
9th Indy poss - 0 penalties - 7 points
10th Hou poss - 1 penalty on Hou, still got a 1st down prior to INT - 0 points
10th Indy poss - 1 penalty on Indy - 0 points
11th Hou poss - 0 penalties - missed FG

Overall I did not like the officiating at all and I find the story of warning one side and then repeatedly flagging the other for offsides to be very disturbing. That said, looking it over, due to the timing of the penalties and results of the various drives it is hard to say the outcome was affected. I do wonder what the team would have done with 50 seconds more clock time on the last drive of the 1st half.

Battle Red Flash
11-11-2009, 10:26 AM
To me it's not about whether they got the call right. It's more about our coaches not running a play. When I saw the very first replay, I said we need to run a play NOW. It was too close, and if I was the Colts coach, I would have red flagged it.
Our coaches in the sky blew it. They just had to run a quick off tackle play.
Clock management and the red flag are still weak spots for Kubiak and staff.

Yankee_In_TX
11-11-2009, 10:32 AM
Anyone notice how "Official Review" was conspicuously missing from NFL Total Access this week?


I think it comes on tonight.

Let us know, I am tired of DVR'ing and fast forwarding through NFLN.

BigBull17
11-11-2009, 10:50 AM
Freeney and Mathis do the Utah Jazz thing. They get into the neutral zone so much, you can't flag them everytime. It's ****, but they have been doing it for years.

Air Canada
11-11-2009, 04:16 PM
In reference to the penalties as well I heard that since Kubiak has been the coach we have only had double digit penalties twice is his tenure and we just happened to have 13 in Indy. When we average less than half that many.

Malloy
11-11-2009, 04:23 PM
The league is going to throw a flag no matter the intent or how the player was playing it. Helmet to helmet...shoulder to helmet..whatever..will get called most of the time.

There was a similar situation in the Monday Night game, no flags thrown. The tackler was high profile, the reciever not (forgot who it was, I just remember thinking about the Houston-Colts call when I watched this game on Tuesday)

Air Canada
11-11-2009, 04:26 PM
As for the personal foul...you can give up on that. The league is going to throw a flag no matter the intent or how the player was playing it. Helmet to helmet...shoulder to helmet..whatever..will get called most of the time.

You do know the Colts did the same thing and it wasn't called on them.

Mailman
11-11-2009, 04:27 PM
Let us know, I am tired of DVR'ing and fast forwarding through NFLN.

FYI those segments are usually available online at nfl.com

http://www.nfl.com/videos/search-results?quickSearch=official+review

vanknights2002
11-11-2009, 05:41 PM
To me it's not about whether they got the call right. It's more about our coaches not running a play. When I saw the very first replay, I said we need to run a play NOW. It was too close, and if I was the Colts coach, I would have red flagged it.
Our coaches in the sky blew it. They just had to run a quick off tackle play.
Clock management and the red flag are still weak spots for Kubiak and staff.

The Ref's blow the call. Moats lost the ball but it hit the colts player who was out of bounds. So the ball is out of bounds and the Texans should of kept the ball. (But the NFL wants a 8-0 Colts team to play the Pats. I think)

Honoring Earl 34
11-11-2009, 07:36 PM
I'm not reading through all the post but I think if it's against St. Louis in Houston ... they don't overturn it .

Mike Perrera (sp) said there wasn't a good angle to proove if the guy touched it while he was out of bounce which would be cool if it was ruled a fumble on the field , which it wasn't .

Air Canada
11-11-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm not reading through all the post but I think if it's against St. Louis in Houston ... they don't overturn it .

Mike Perrera (sp) said there wasn't a good angle to proove if the guy touched it while he was out of bounce which would be cool if it was ruled a fumble on the field , which it wasn't .

If Mike Perrera said that, then it only further proves my point that the Texans got screwed by the refs there.:choke:

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d8142045a/Official-Review-Week-9

There is the stupid official review from NFL Network where Mike Perrera says some contradicted BS.

Goatcheese
11-11-2009, 08:19 PM
I'm not reading through all the post but I think if it's against St. Louis in Houston ... they don't overturn it .

Mike Perrera (sp) said there wasn't a good angle to proove if the guy touched it while he was out of bounce which would be cool if it was ruled a fumble on the field , which it wasn't .

If they can't tell, they're not supposed to change the call on the field. :rake:

Air Canada
11-11-2009, 08:34 PM
If they can't tell, they're not supposed to change the call on the field. :rake:

What's funny is you can tell how unsure Mike Perrera is off the call too...:aggressive:

Big Lou
11-11-2009, 09:07 PM
If they can't tell, they're not supposed to change the call on the field. :rake:

So they got the call wrong by not knowing the rules, and then they get the review wrong by stating something that is wrong as well. Unbelievable.

I love the sport of football and auto racing, but I hate when officials of the NFL and NASCAR won't own up to their mistakes. They try to appear that they are perfect when everyone knows that's not possible. Don't BS the fans.

HJam72
11-11-2009, 09:19 PM
To me it's not about whether they got the call right. It's more about our coaches not running a play. When I saw the very first replay, I said we need to run a play NOW. It was too close, and if I was the Colts coach, I would have red flagged it.
Our coaches in the sky blew it. They just had to run a quick off tackle play.
Clock management and the red flag are still weak spots for Kubiak and staff.

When on the road, ESPECIALLY in Indianapolis, they should just expect replays and calls like that. Everyone who knew that the ball had come out and been picked up by a defender, regardless of where it came out or where it got picked up, should've been screaming "Run a &*)^ing play!" Doesn't even matter how ridiculous an overturn on replay might have seemed. You're in an undefeated, division rival's stadium, with one of the most famous QBs around; you gotta know you're gonna get screwed.

So, there's Kubiak standing around waiting for the 2-minute warning...

I don't care if it was the right call or not, you don't trust the refs in Indianapolis unless they suck (sometime way in the future) and you are undefeated with a QB in GQ magazine.

OK, now I'm having thoughts of a cheerleader getting promoted to QB, but that's irrelavent.

Pantherstang84
11-11-2009, 10:30 PM
I'm not reading through all the post but I think if it's against St. Louis in Houston ... they don't overturn it .

Mike Perrera (sp) said there wasn't a good angle to proove if the guy touched it while he was out of bounce which would be cool if it was ruled a fumble on the field , which it wasn't .

Let me translate this...

"We know we screwed Houston on this and blew the call. We had no conclusive evidence to overturn the ruling on the field but we had to do it. It is important for everyone to understand that Indianapolis must be undefeated (for the sake of TV ratings) going into their Monday night game with New England. It is better for Disney and ultimately the league fat cats that this take place. What is the next play Rich?"

Lucky
11-11-2009, 10:53 PM
It took a series of mistakes by the Texans before the refs mistake came into play. Moats should not have fumbled. Kubiak should not have slipped into another gameday coma and fail to get a play in prior to the 2 minute warning.

The Texans screwed the Texans in Indy. Just has they screwed themselves many times over during their 8 year history. When the Texans reduce those screwups, maybe, just maybe they'll become winners.

TexCanada
11-11-2009, 11:45 PM
It took a series of mistakes by the Texans before the refs mistake came into play. Moats should not have fumbled. Kubiak should not have slipped into another gameday coma and fail to get a play in prior to the 2 minute warning.

The Texans screwed the Texans in Indy. Just has they screwed themselves many times over during their 8 year history. When the Texans reduce those screwups, maybe, just maybe they'll become winners.

Exactly. If we need to depend on our fumbles inadvertently touching the opposing players elbow while a small portion of his body is out of bounds, then I don't think we will win too many games from here on in. Don't fumble the ball and their won't be any confusion!

Wolfiegrrl
11-12-2009, 03:35 AM
Maybe I'm confused, but isn't the clock supposed to stop if a runner or receiver goes out of bounds with the ball? If this play was originally called out of bounds on the one, why was the clock allowed to tick down to the 2:00 warning. Wouldn't we have had to snap the ball again to get the clock moving?

It's not the fumble or the bad call that bothers me as much as this piece that no one is talking about.

HJam72
11-12-2009, 06:37 AM
Maybe I'm confused, but isn't the clock supposed to stop if a runner or receiver goes out of bounds with the ball? If this play was originally called out of bounds on the one, why was the clock allowed to tick down to the 2:00 warning. Wouldn't we have had to snap the ball again to get the clock moving?

It's not the fumble or the bad call that bothers me as much as this piece that no one is talking about.

It's because the refs were trying to help us run the clock down on the Colts.

:pigfly:

Showtime100
11-12-2009, 07:44 AM
NFLN is getting ready to talk about the "fumble" in a couple of minutes.

DerekLee1
11-12-2009, 08:44 AM
Maybe I'm confused, but isn't the clock supposed to stop if a runner or receiver goes out of bounds with the ball? If this play was originally called out of bounds on the one, why was the clock allowed to tick down to the 2:00 warning. Wouldn't we have had to snap the ball again to get the clock moving?

It's not the fumble or the bad call that bothers me as much as this piece that no one is talking about.

The clock doesn't stop on an out-of-bounds play until INSIDE the 2:00 warning. However, on overturning the play, they should have put something like 0:19 back on the clock if they ruled a fumble and turnover.

Pereira has to side with his officials, but I think everyone in the league knows he was wrong. If the officials couldn't see conclusive evidence that Bethea STAYED IN BOUNDS, then the call on the field should not have been overturned. THAT'S where the biggest mistake was.

Additionally, if the NFL rule is really that if an OOB player can swat a loose ball and kill the play and get a touchback, that REALLY needs to be changed. What a ridiculous rule! A player outside the field of play can affect the result? As The Sicilian would say, that's preposterous!

Rozelle
11-12-2009, 08:46 AM
I knew it was a fumble when it happened. It can be argued whether or not it was out of bounds or not. What can't be argued is how dumb it was for Schaub to allow the clock to run down to the 2 minute warning. That pissed me off, somebody up in the box should've known it was questionable and passed the word down to hurry the **** up.

As it went to commercial I knew there would be a challenge when it came back to the game.

Thank God there's a bye week. I need a damn break myself.

:goodpost:
I hear ya. This was too close to not get up there and run a play. This is on the staff.

hobie
11-12-2009, 09:08 AM
Please answer me this... WHY is this still talked about... It was SUNDAY people, ya know 4 days ago... it is what it is, it's in the past, let's not dwell on things that just cannot be changed..The game is 60 minutes, when it's all zeros, there is a winner and a loser..then go on with your life...A game, that is it, the Texans made many mistakes, many... the refs made a few bad calls, ya know, that is football and it happens to just about every team..it is what it is, and it's 4 days ago.. look to the future, the past is dead and gone..

Man, sorry about the rant, but really, still harping on 1 call that ya'll seem to think would have won the game for them.. there was a second half to go, and if they did score, who knows what the Colts would have done after that, as you don't know if they would have scored or not either, as you can't say that the way it went down would have been the way it went down if Houston scored..

60 minutes, there is a winner, and a loser.. and it is that simple..don't ever let it come down to 1 play in the first half to say they were screwed...

DerekLee1
11-12-2009, 09:12 AM
And to clarify the clock rule, the game clock DOES stop when a ball carrier goes out of bounds. After a ball carrier is out, and the game clock stops, it will restart when the line judge resets the ball and whistles play to continue. The exception is in the last 2 minutes of the first half or the last 5 minutes of the second half. In those cases the clock does not start again until the offense snaps the ball.

HOU-TEX
11-12-2009, 09:12 AM
Please answer me this... WHY is this still talked about... It was SUNDAY people, ya know 4 days ago... it is what it is, it's in the past, let's not dwell on things that just cannot be changed..The game is 60 minutes, when it's all zeros, there is a winner and a loser..then go on with your life...A game, that is it, the Texans made many mistakes, many... the refs made a few bad calls, ya know, that is football and it happens to just about every team..it is what it is, and it's 4 days ago.. look to the future, the past is dead and gone..

Man, sorry about the rant, but really, still harping on 1 call that ya'll seem to think would have won the game for them.. there was a second half to go, and if they did score, who knows what the Colts would have done after that, as you don't know if they would have scored or not either, as you can't say that the way it went down would have been the way it went down if Houston scored..

60 minutes, there is a winner, and a loser.. and it is that simple..don't ever let it come down to 1 play in the first half to say they were screwed...

I agree for the most part. Just think what the Chargers boards were like when Hercules totally boned them last season.

Texan_Bill
11-12-2009, 09:13 AM
:brickwall:

hobie
11-12-2009, 09:14 AM
:brickwall:

By the looks of your picture yesterday, looks like that is exactly what you did !!

DerekLee1
11-12-2009, 09:15 AM
Please answer me this... WHY is this still talked about... It was SUNDAY people, ya know 4 days ago... it is what it is, it's in the past, let's not dwell on things that just cannot be changed..The game is 60 minutes, when it's all zeros, there is a winner and a loser..then go on with your life...A game, that is it, the Texans made many mistakes, many... the refs made a few bad calls, ya know, that is football and it happens to just about every team..it is what it is, and it's 4 days ago.. look to the future, the past is dead and gone..

Man, sorry about the rant, but really, still harping on 1 call that ya'll seem to think would have won the game for them.. there was a second half to go, and if they did score, who knows what the Colts would have done after that, as you don't know if they would have scored or not either, as you can't say that the way it went down would have been the way it went down if Houston scored..

60 minutes, there is a winner, and a loser.. and it is that simple..don't ever let it come down to 1 play in the first half to say they were screwed...

It's about learning from mistakes, my man.

I don't think most are necessarily griping, but we ALL want to learn from this. It's a really unique series of events that led to this ruling on the field. So it's about understanding the rules, figuring out what went wrong, and learning from the event to improve the team (and fans) going forward.

You're right; what's done is done, and we recovered from that call and took the lead, so it's moot, at least for me. It's just a fascinating study.

El Tejano
11-12-2009, 09:57 AM
I know people are pissed at Kubes and trust me I was every bit more pissed. I was screaming to run another play myself. However, after looking at it again, I can see how there could be a bit of confusion even for the guys in the box due to one thing that happened.

The guy that recovers the ball inbounds looks as if to say he recovered the ball to the refs. Then the ref asks for the ball almost to tell him it was out of bounds, so the Colt player flips the ball back to the ref. In all honesty, that dude could've ran the ball all the way back for a TD. The fact that he flips the ball back to the refs is probably what caused the guys upstairs to think nothing of it. If you recall, Kubiak said that someone told him they thought they were disputing the spot of the ball. The fact that Kubes or Shanny wasn't on that side to know if there was a fumble or whatever, and add to the fact that Kube made since in not wanting to give Manning 2:30 to score again after seeing what he was already doing, I can understand what was going on there.

I couldn't tell if the ball hit the Colt guy laying out of bounds myself. However, the rule is they can dispute if the ball went out of bounds or not because the ruling was that it was out of bounds. Moats does lose the ball before he is down, but if there was inconclusive evidence of the ball hitting a Colt player it's pretty understandable why they would go in the Colts favor.

I do have a problem with the clock not stopping and no time being added to the clock because there could've been a chance for an easier FG or possible score still. I also do have a problem with the phantom Connor Barwin offsides, and then hearing Winston say that Mathis was being advised to back up out of the neutral zone.

Hooston Texan
11-12-2009, 10:02 AM
Please answer me this... WHY is this still talked about... It was SUNDAY people, ya know 4 days ago... it is what it is, it's in the past, let's not dwell on things that just cannot be changed..The game is 60 minutes, when it's all zeros, there is a winner and a loser..then go on with your life...A game, that is it, the Texans made many mistakes, many... the refs made a few bad calls, ya know, that is football and it happens to just about every team..it is what it is, and it's 4 days ago.. look to the future, the past is dead and gone..

Man, sorry about the rant, but really, still harping on 1 call that ya'll seem to think would have won the game for them.. there was a second half to go, and if they did score, who knows what the Colts would have done after that, as you don't know if they would have scored or not either, as you can't say that the way it went down would have been the way it went down if Houston scored..

60 minutes, there is a winner, and a loser.. and it is that simple..don't ever let it come down to 1 play in the first half to say they were screwed...

Then why even discuss the game at all? After all, it's already been played. Why discuss any play from a past game? After all, never let a game come down to one play. Blah blah blah.

Unless someone on this board isn't telling us something, we're not the players. We're FANS. We don't practice during the week, we're not in the meetings to discuss the gameplan and we don't play in the games. So what else are we going to do right now?

Our substantially-improved team just lost a nailbiter in the stadium of our undefeated division rivals despite a terrible start to the game and some very questionable calls by the zebra's. Because this is our bye week and we're on MNF next week, we are facing two Sundays in a row without a game for our team. What the heck is wrong with discussing the last game when we stil have ELEVEN DAYS until the next one?

hobie
11-12-2009, 10:16 AM
Then why even discuss the game at all? After all, it's already been played. Why discuss any play from a past game? After all, never let a game come down to one play. Blah blah blah.

Unless someone on this board isn't telling us something, we're not the players. We're FANS. We don't practice during the week, we're not in the meetings to discuss the gameplan and we don't play in the games. So what else are we going to do right now?

Our substantially-improved team just lost a nailbiter in the stadium of our undefeated division rivals despite a terrible start to the game and some very questionable calls by the zebra's. Because this is our bye week and we're on MNF next week, we are facing two Sundays in a row without a game for our team. What the heck is wrong with discussing the last game when we stil have ELEVEN DAYS until the next one?

Well let me see here.... OK, the game was last week, a game...Now, since I try and look at things as such, it has no meaning to my life, doesn't pay my bills, nor do my work for me...so this game that was played 4 days ago is over, so why dwell on something that really doesn't matter. I mean the Texans did take the lead, not like they were just short.. no, they had the lead...So talking of that play like it was THE play that changed the game, it was not.
Yeah, it sucks that the Texans lost, but as I have said, it is a game, time to move on...Now post pictures of hot women with no top on, that has meaning around these parts !!

Texan_Bill
11-12-2009, 10:30 AM
By the looks of your picture yesterday, looks like that is exactly what you did !!

Eerily similar.

DexmanC
11-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Here's what Coach Kubes thought about the officiating:

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ccpl68.jpg

Texan_Bill
11-12-2009, 10:47 AM
Here's what Coach Kubes thought about the officiating:

:thumbup

Blake
11-12-2009, 10:59 AM
I am going to bill the ref's for ruining my trip to Indy since they caused the loss. :P

:includeme:

BigBull17
11-12-2009, 02:55 PM
How 'bout his unnecessary roughness on a kickoff? That colt hit him after the whistle and Connor just rolled with the punches and put the boy on the ground. Only one to get flagged? The Texan.

Speaking of bad calls on kickoffs, how 'bout the holding on Jesse Nading? On the replay JJ runs to about the 20, gets about as close to a horse collar tackle as you can get with no call and not once is Nading seen on tv. So he's like...15, 20 yards upfield from the play? That's really, really tacky.

It was more of a clothesline, but I get your point.

Porky
11-12-2009, 03:28 PM
Here's what Coach Kubes thought about the officiating:

I'm not much on reading lips. Can anyone translate? I think I see BS in there but that's about it.

JB
11-12-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm not much on reading lips. Can anyone translate? I think I see BS in there but that's about it.

He said " That's *******ing BS, JOE!

I remember it happening , but not exactly when... one of the phantom calls...lol

infantrycak
11-12-2009, 03:36 PM
I'm not much on reading lips. Can anyone translate? I think I see BS in there but that's about it.

There was a f2#$ing before the BS.

DexmanC
11-12-2009, 05:32 PM
Here's what Coach Kubes thought about the officiating:

I clipped it after the phantom call on Nading.

"That's f-ing Bullsh*t, JOE!!!"

DexmanC
11-12-2009, 05:33 PM
Here's what Coach Kubes thought about the officiating:

I clipped it after the phantom call on Nading, early in the 1st quarter.

http://i33.tinypic.com/2ccpl68.jpg

"That's f-ing Bullsh*t, JOE!!!"

CloakNNNdagger
11-13-2009, 07:24 AM
I'm amazed they didn't call the obvious HORSE COLLAR on the play. He clearly reached into Moates' pads to bring him down.

That was only one of 3 Horse Collars conveniently ignored/missed by the
zebras.

CloakNNNdagger
11-13-2009, 07:30 AM
Wait a minute. Hold on, hold on, while I review the play. Uhhhh, can someone point me in the general direction of the booth. It used to be here. I know it's here somewhere.

http://funnyhalloweenideas.com/images/blind.jpg

GlassHalfFull
11-13-2009, 07:50 AM
I'm not much on reading lips. Can anyone translate? I think I see BS in there but that's about it.

We don't even need Nitro to help us with that one. Nitro may be flattered to know we were giving him props at Bubba's.

BIG TORO
11-13-2009, 08:24 AM
Despite some of our own mistakes, the Colts made mistakes too and we should've still won the game.

I know all the penalties, but that's not what I'm referring to. Everyone go look at that play with the fumble by Moats! Watch it in fast motion, slo-mo, whatever...

That clearly should be Houston's ball at the 2yd line. What pisses me off about this the most is that it was challenged and for something to be reversed there has to be indisputable evidence yet the refs still #@$%^& it up...:bat:

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1108/nfl_a_rmoatsts_480.jpg

Bethea is laying out of bounds and touches the ball! It is a loose ball. So if somebody is out of bounds and touching the ball, it is considered OUT OF BOUNDS. The play is over and it's Houston's ball!

:wild:

Question IF Bethea is out of bounds in this picture quich clearly showes he is and his arm is touching the ball, why isnt this ball dead

infantrycak
11-13-2009, 08:56 AM
Question IF Bethea is out of bounds in this picture quich clearly showes he is and his arm is touching the ball, why isnt this ball dead

That's kind of the point of all the complaints. The on field call of no fumble should have been reversed, but then the call should have been fumble contacted by an out of bounds player without recovery by the opposing team therefore Houston ball at the point of the fumble.

CloakNNNdagger
11-13-2009, 09:41 AM
After all that has been presented, and with it all available to the refs at the time of the "decision," it amazes me how the refs' position can be defended.

aj, in his piece in the Houston Examiner, takes you through a detailed step by step journey through what should have been the same process effected by the refs. If the Refs' official office does not acknowledge their screw up, the "conspiracy theory" in favor of the Colts no longer remains a theory. LINK (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m11d9-Officials-appear-to-have-missed-key-point-on-Moats-fumble-call)

steelbtexan
11-13-2009, 05:42 PM
If the NFL doesn't watch it they could suffer the same fate as the NBA or be compared to the WWE.

I believe that it's impossible for the officials to be that bad at their jobs. Not only did the Texans get screwed I believe the game was rigged and if it wasn't the officials should be fired immediately for incompetence.

I believe the higher ups Goddell and Tags have been rigging games for years.

See The Pats-Indy Playoff game or the Pitt-Sea Super bowl for example.

Manning winning a SB and Tony Dungy being the 1st black coach to win a SB made for a great story line and benefited the the NFL greatly.

Double Barrel
11-13-2009, 05:50 PM
That's kind of the point of all the complaints. The on field call of no fumble should have been reversed, but then the call should have been fumble contacted by an out of bounds player without recovery by the opposing team therefore Houston ball at the point of the fumble.

I would assume that none of the video replays available to the officials at the game showed the angle of the still pic. "Official Review" on NFLN only showed the one angle, and they were more focused on the touchback part of the call than the fumble itself. So I guess we'll never really know what video was available to them.

If the NFL doesn't watch it they could suffer the same fate as the NBA or be compared to the WWE.

I believe that it's impossible for the officials to be that bad at their jobs. Not only did the Texans get screwed I believe the game was rigged and if it wasn't the officials should be fired immediately for incompetence.

I believe the higher ups Goddell and Tags have been rigging games for years.

See The Pats-Indy Playoff game or the Pitt-Sea Super bowl for example.

Manning winning a SB and Tony Dungy being the 1st black coach to win a SB made for a great story line and benefited the the NFL greatly.

The day that we learn games are 'rigged' or otherwise purposefully influenced by officials is the day that I quit watching pro football. I love the game itself and the athletic display that is football, but when the business end shows itself to be influential on the actual outcome of the game is when I do consider it no better than WWE.

The one play did not cost us the game, though. We took the lead in the second half and had a chance to tie the game with a FG. We shot ourselves in the foot and I can't blame officials for our inability to seal the deal with a win.

infantrycak
11-13-2009, 06:02 PM
I would assume that none of the video replays available to the officials at the game showed the angle of the still pic. "Official Review" on NFLN only showed the one angle, and they were more focused on the touchback part of the call than the fumble itself. So I guess we'll never really know what video was available to them.

My personal theory is they looked to see if it was a fumble, saw that it was, knew a Colt player had ended up with the ball in his hands and went straight to where should we spot the ball. I think it was cranial flatulence and they skipped a step (on checking whether it was out of bounds before recovery) with no ill intent.

Now of the defensive offsides thing, that comes down to one ref and ...

On that note, something I forgot to say when I reviewed the possessions in the game - I ignored the what if scenario from the opposite perspective. Fine call them on us, but what happens if the ref doesn't help Mathis and Freeney out and he throws 3-4 flags on them? Can't tell because non-calls don't appear on the play by play. Would we have gotten 1 or 2 drive sustaining 1st downs like they did? - who knows. Call it one way or the other, but it has to be consistent.

Air Canada
11-13-2009, 06:14 PM
I would assume that none of the video replays available to the officials at the game showed the angle of the still pic. "Official Review" on NFLN only showed the one angle, and they were more focused on the touchback part of the call than the fumble itself. So I guess we'll never really know what video was available to them.



The day that we learn games are 'rigged' or otherwise purposefully influenced by officials is the day that I quit watching pro football. I love the game itself and the athletic display that is football, but when the business end shows itself to be influential on the actual outcome of the game is when I do consider it no better than WWE.

The one play did not cost us the game, though. We took the lead in the second half and had a chance to tie the game with a FG. We shot ourselves in the foot and I can't blame officials for our inability to seal the deal with a win.

Wait, but let me ask you this....Do you watch basketball? I'm a big-time football fan, but a die hard basketball fan. One thing I do know is that the NBA has the worst refs in pro sports and it's been clear they have purposefully influenced games or the outcome. They can be horrible on a nightly basis and the integrity of the game has been lost, but I still watch it cuz I love the game. It just is annoying to see it all the time.:wild:

Double Barrel
11-13-2009, 06:19 PM
My personal theory is they looked to see if it was a fumble, saw that it was, knew a Colt player had ended up with the ball in his hands and went straight to where should we spot the ball. I think it was cranial flatulence and they skipped a step (on checking whether it was out of bounds before recovery) with no ill intent.

Now of the defensive offsides thing, that comes down to one ref and ...

On that note, something I forgot to say when I reviewed the possessions in the game - I ignored the what if scenario from the opposite perspective. Fine call them on us, but what happens if the ref doesn't help Mathis and Freeney out and he throws 3-4 flags on them? Can't tell because non-calls don't appear on the play by play. Would we have gotten 1 or 2 drive sustaining 1st downs like they did? - who knows. Call it one way or the other, but it has to be consistent.

No doubt, man. That it came from a source like Winston gives it credibility, and really shakes my confidence that the NFL is somewhat 'neutral' about the outcomes of games.

Wait, but let me ask you this....Do you watch basketball? I'm a big-time football fan, but a die hard basketball fan. One thing I do know is that the NBA has the worst refs in pro sports and it's been clear they have purposefully influenced games or the outcome. They can be horrible on a nightly basis and the integrity of the game has been lost, but I still watch it cuz I love the game. It just is annoying to see it all the time.:wild:

Nope, don't watch NBA, and it is precisely because of the disgust of seeing certain players get away with murder while others get constant attention. I was never a big b-ball fan, but got into it with the Rockets for awhile and then promptly stopped caring when I realized the blatant influence that refs were having on the outcomes of games.

If I started believing that the NFL was holding certain teams down *cough*Texans*cough*, I just don't see how that kind of fanaticism that I've had for the NFL can be justified in my mind. I might as well choose a pro wrestler to root for if the outcomes are scripted. I would not be able to get past it, to be quite honest with you.

CloakNNNdagger
11-13-2009, 07:34 PM
Excuse my cynicism. But, for the referees to be so obviously favoring one team over the other, I've almost come to the conclusion that it can only be happening at the direction of the league. As they are the most popular sport on television, I am sure they are unconcerned that they are ruining the game for the sake of bigger and bigger bucks. Welcome to the WWFL.

All you have to do is look back over the years and count up how many games, especially important games, have been decided by lopsided officiating or overtly blown crucial calls.

Players nor coaches are allowed by the league to speak out publicly. After the game behind closed doors type of petitioning by coaches to the league are too benign a forum for the inexcusable irreversible sometime catastrophic damage that it has commonly caused. I'd love to see a system that would allow a panel of coaches and referees open forum to weekly confront each other on TV once a week for any gross grievances occuring on the field the week before. Let the refs bleed a little for their mistakes........like the players bleed each week for their efforts.

There, I've had my rant.

gary
11-13-2009, 08:08 PM
Excuse my cynicism. But, for the referees to be so obviously favoring one team over the other, I've almost come to the conclusion that it can only be happening at the direction of the league. As they are the most popular sport on television, I am sure they are unconcerned that they are ruining the game for the sake of bigger and bigger bucks. Welcome to the WWFL.

All you have to do is look back over the years and count up how many games, especially important games, have been decided by lopsided officiating or overtly blown crucial calls.

Players nor coaches are allowed by the league to speak out publicly. After the game behind closed doors type of petitioning by coaches to the league are too benign a forum for the inexcusable irreversible sometime catastrophic damage that it has commonly caused. I'd love to see a system that would allow a panel of coaches and referees open forum to weekly confront each other on TV once a week for any gross grievances occuring on the field the week before. Let the refs bleed a little for their mistakes........like the players bleed each week for their efforts.

There, I've had my rant.
The bottom line is that the refs are going to make bad calls over the course of a game but I am not sure they have something going on. Maybe they do maybe they don't only time will tell. That should not stop a very talented team from winning football games as that is beyond our control if that type of thing is REALLY GOING ON. There isn't any doubt in my mind that every player in that lockeroom would say the samething I promise you. It's all up to them to overcome the calls good and bad and make the big plays they have to in order to win more football games because the fact is ain't nothing going to change anytime soon but that's just my honest opinion.

False Start
11-13-2009, 08:13 PM
Wilson gets fined for his hit on Dallas Clark. :rake:

Texans free safety Eugene Wilson has been fined $5,000 by the NFL for a hit he put on Colts tight end Dallas Clark during the 20-17 loss to Indianapolis.

In the second quarter, the Colts were leading 13-0 when Wilson drilled Clark over the middle. He was penalized 15 yards for unnecessary roughness.
The league fined Wilson for hitting a defenseless receiver.

Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6719465.html)

gary
11-13-2009, 08:20 PM
There have been some badly called games over the years but I just don't think that's going to change untill it is looked into.

Air Canada
11-13-2009, 08:34 PM
Wilson gets fined for his hit on Dallas Clark. :rake:



Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6719465.html)

Well, they had time to review that and make that fine.

I wonder if they will issue a statement on the mistake they made about the call and make it known like they did last season with the Denver and Chargers game....Kubiak did send it into to the league office...

Yeah, I bet that's not happening.:rake:

SteveSlaton20
11-13-2009, 08:43 PM
Wilson gets fined for his hit on Dallas Clark. :rake:



Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6719465.html)

was probably one of the most stupid call i've ever seen.

gary
11-13-2009, 08:46 PM
was probably one of the most stupid call i've ever seen.Agreed.

JDizzle
11-13-2009, 09:05 PM
In a game decided by 3 points it is safe to say that a call or two could have affected the final score.

I hate it when people say "well it shouldn't have come down to a kick" or "we should have had a bigger lead" etc. We played the Colts, not the Rams, we all knew it would be close and for the record I think we got royally F'd out of a win.

Cry and whine about Schaub / Moats all you want but the fact remains that the officiating in this game was crap.

gary
11-13-2009, 09:13 PM
In a game decided by 3 points it is safe to say that a call or two could have affected the final score.

I hate it when people say "well it shouldn't have come down to a kick" or "we should have had a bigger lead" etc. We played the Colts, not the Rams, we all knew it would be close and for the record I think we got royally F'd out of a win.

Cry and whine about Schaub / Moats all you want but the fact remains that the officiating in this game was crap.I'll put it this way we were F'd out of a win with the refs bad calls and mistakes on our part the boat floats both ways IMO.

SteveSlaton20
11-13-2009, 09:38 PM
I'll put it this way we were F'd out of a win with the refs bad calls and mistakes on our part the boat floats both ways IMO.

its kinda like w/ florida and bama, they dont want anyone to win that division but the colts. cept w/ uf and bama, they just want them to play each other in the ccg.

CloakNNNdagger
11-13-2009, 11:30 PM
The very appearance of impropriety of the refs is unacceptable when implied in jest by a player, but wholey acceptable when actually demonstrated by an official. What hypocrits.


League fines Cincinnati receiver Chad Ochocinco $20,000 for $1 'bribe'
Chad Ochocinco's pretend $1 bribe is going to cost him a lot more.

CINCINNATI — Chad Ochocinco's pretend $1 bribe is going to cost him a lot more.

The Cincinnati wide receiver was fined $20,000 and reprimanded by the league for taking a dollar bill onto the field during an officials' review of one of his catches Sunday.

Ochocinco held the dollar in his right hand at his side but didn't give it to the official, who motioned for him to stay away.

Ochocinco said he was merely having fun, but the league didn't like his stunt.

Ray Anderson, the league's executive vice president of football operations, sent Ochocinco a letter that said: "The very appearance of impropriety is not acceptable. Your conduct was unprofessional and unbecoming an NFL player."

The letter cited league rules that prohibit abusive, threatening or insulting language or gestures toward officials. The letter also noted players are prohibited from taking items onto the field that are not part of their uniform.

During the third quarter of the Bengals' 17-7 victory over Baltimore, officials initially ruled Ochocinco got both feet down at the sideline for a 15-yard catch. The Ravens challenged, and the call was overturned when replays showed Ochocinco's toe landed on the sideline.

While the play was under review, Ochocinco walked toward officials with the dollar bill.

infantrycak
11-14-2009, 08:30 AM
Wait, but let me ask you this....Do you watch basketball?

Not directed to me, but my answer is no. And it is because I played and the game doesn't resemble anything fair or the rules with the way it is officiated nowadays.

Excuse my cynicism. But, for the referees to be so obviously favoring one team over the other, I've almost come to the conclusion that it can only be happening at the direction of the league. As they are the most popular sport on television, I am sure they are unconcerned that they are ruining the game for the sake of bigger and bigger bucks. Welcome to the WWFL.

I've been on your rant for a couple decades. When I was growing up in Dallas as a Cowboy fan I noticed how they got more calls their way. Sure there were bad calls against them (like the one that cost them Super Bowl V) but for the most part things went their way. Want to see star status? - look at who gets called for offensive or defensive pass interference. Aaron Glenn, Champ Bailey, AJ routinely push (or pushed in Glenn's case) down field and don't get called for it. Dunta or Reeves don't get the same leeway.

As a side note - Deion was the best ever because he didn't need to play handsies down the field. His closing speed was sick.

GP
11-15-2009, 04:46 PM
Just before the end of the 1st quarter of Cowboys/Packers, the Cowboys smash Aaron Rodgers and cause a fumble. Dallas takes possession near the Packers' end zone. What a fantastic play!

Until the same freaking head ref from the Texans/Colts game (I think it was him) steps onto the field to announce that #21 of the Cowboys was guilty of hitting the Packers WR on the face mask.

Watching the replay, it was a VERY slight touch, not even knocking the receiver off the route. Nor did it even cause the receiver's head to move up or down, or side to side, etc. Nor was it anywhere in the vicinity of where Rodgers was looking to throw the ball. It was bogus.

The Packers end up punting the ball instead of the Cowboys knocking on the door of a TD or FG. Fortunately, for the Cowboys, the punt is returned to about the 50. But still, the 50 is different than the 10 or 15 of your opponent.

Then the Cowboys have to punt.

The great play on Rodgers, which resulted in a fumble and turnover, is nullified by a ref.

koolmanntx
11-15-2009, 06:13 PM
Jeff Triplett is the worst ref ever, he and his crew and made a joke out of the texans/colts game and is now doing the same with packers/cowboys game, going under the hood twice and should have never gone over there. he blew 75% of the calls vs texans when will the NFL wake up.

wagonhed
11-16-2009, 01:33 AM
I still do and probably always will think we got screwed out of the win. The refs did practically everything they could to make us lose the game without actually giving the Colts points. 13 penalties vs. 4. You throw many more flags than that and people start asking questions. If the Colts were winning the game handily I think we would have seen an evenly called game, but the refs had to play every single card in their hand to get the Colts to win.

13 penalties vs. 4 penalties does not happen by accident.

Athlon
11-16-2009, 08:46 AM
Anyone watch the colts pats game last night?

Can someone please explain that when moats fumbled we ran the clock to the 2 minute warning that gave the colts the chance to challenge...When Last night the Pats couldn't Challenge?


Last night on the 4th and 2 that the pats lost and they didn't give him the forward progress. the refs said and I quote" Can't challenge because it's the two minute warning"

Is it just me or do the Colts get the unfair advantage to win because It's a better Media Story......

How the hell does it not work both ways....oh wait it's the Colts and Pretty Payton can't lose.

Really pissed off about that, anyone else? Or maybe someone can clarify why the colts can challenge at the 2 minute warning but the Pats can't? Not a big pats fan, more the principle of the matter is why i'm writing this..

Colts win again by the Refs Two weeks in a row, Next week going to be the same?


Thanks,

kastofsna
11-16-2009, 08:57 AM
Anyone watch the colts pats game last night?

Can someone please explain that when moats fumbled we ran the clock to the 2 minute warning that gave the colts the chance to challenge...When Last night the Pats couldn't Challenge?


Last night on the 4th and 2 that the pats lost and they didn't give him the forward progress. the refs said and I quote" Can't challenge because it's the two minute warning"

Is it just me or do the Colts get the unfair advantage to win because It's a better Media Story......

How the hell does it not work both ways....oh wait it's the Colts and Pretty Payton can't lose.

Really pissed off about that, anyone else? Or maybe someone can clarify why the colts can challenge at the 2 minute warning but the Pats can't? Not a big pats fan, more the principle of the matter is why i'm writing this..

Colts win again by the Refs Two weeks in a row, Next week going to be the same?


Thanks,

the Patriots had no timeouts and couldn't challenge.

Double Barrel
11-16-2009, 01:53 PM
Anyone watch the colts pats game last night?

Can someone please explain that when moats fumbled we ran the clock to the 2 minute warning that gave the colts the chance to challenge...When Last night the Pats couldn't Challenge?


Last night on the 4th and 2 that the pats lost and they didn't give him the forward progress. the refs said and I quote" Can't challenge because it's the two minute warning"

Is it just me or do the Colts get the unfair advantage to win because It's a better Media Story......

How the hell does it not work both ways....oh wait it's the Colts and Pretty Payton can't lose.

Really pissed off about that, anyone else? Or maybe someone can clarify why the colts can challenge at the 2 minute warning but the Pats can't? Not a big pats fan, more the principle of the matter is why i'm writing this..

Colts win again by the Refs Two weeks in a row, Next week going to be the same?


Thanks,

I thought the PI call against the Patriots was very weak at the end. The defender was clearly going for the ball, so incidental contact is allowed. But I guess not if it's Manning throwing the ball at the end of a game that he needs to score twice.

And that spot on that 4th down play was horrendous. Manning and the Colts are league and media darlings, especially with an undefeated record. Those calls were way too convenient.

kastofsna
11-16-2009, 02:35 PM
i thought the Patriots were the media's darlings? or do people just say that whenever it's convenient?

ah.

HoustonFrog
11-16-2009, 02:44 PM
I thought the PI call against the Patriots was very weak at the end. The defender was clearly going for the ball, so incidental contact is allowed. But I guess not if it's Manning throwing the ball at the end of a game that he needs to score twice.

And that spot on that 4th down play was horrendous. Manning and the Colts are league and media darlings, especially with an undefeated record. Those calls were way too convenient.

Really?

The pass interference....it was close but the WR did come back and was run into. Call was correct but a little close and I wouldn't have called it there.

The mark was right on the 4th down. He bobbled the ball and when he got possession he was already going backwards. I had no problem with that spot at all. Had he caught it clean he was definitely across.

Double Barrel
11-16-2009, 03:11 PM
i thought the Patriots were the media's darlings? or do people just say that whenever it's convenient?

ah.

I think they both are media darlings. Manning's mug is selling everything from flat screens to satellite tv to credit cards to NFL merch cell phones.

Now, I'm not saying that there is a CON$piracy, but the horrendous calls during the Texans/Colts game the week before have me looking a bit closer...and wondering. :tinfoil:

Really?

The pass interference....it was close but the WR did come back and was run into. Call was correct but a little close and I wouldn't have called it there.

The mark was right on the 4th down. He bobbled the ball and when he got possession he was already going backwards. I had no problem with that spot at all.

I'd have to see it again, but I thought the defender was clearly tracking the ball and making a play for it. I've seen that same type of defensive play many times before that never got the PI call. It was just 'convenient' that it was on a 3rd down to keep the Colts alive when they needed two scores.

The 4th down play could have went either way, so I can't really argue with you there. I saw a slight bobble right when he caught it but he quickly had control. He did not bobble it for two yards, which is indicative of where they spotted the ball. But watching it on youtube, I think his momentum coming back to the ball had something to do with the spot. It was a stupid playcall to begin with, so I can't really blame the refs there. Still a very generous spot, though.

HoustonFrog
11-16-2009, 03:15 PM
I'd have to see it again, but I thought the defender was clearly tracking the ball and making a play for it. I've seen that same type of defensive play many times before that never got the PI call. It was just 'convenient' that it was on a 3rd down to keep the Colts alive when they needed two scores.

The 4th down play could have went either way, so I can't really argue with you there. I saw a slight bobble right when he caught it but he quickly had control. He did not bobble it for two yards, which is indicative of where they spotted the ball. But watching it on youtube, I think his momentum coming back to the ball had something to do with the spot. It was a stupid playcall to begin with, so I can't really blame the refs there. Still a very generous spot, though.

Agree on both descriptions. The PI, as I said, didn't need to be called, but I could see it by rule just because I hear announcers every week talking about how WRs need to stop and come back to the ball to draw more of those. I just think the bobble is what cost them. It could have been a little close but it is hard to say.

As for the call, completely agree. Dumb play call and I think Brady, as machine like as he can be, was a little rattled by the previous blitz and threw way too early. Welker looked like he had separation from his guy too.

Air Canada
11-16-2009, 03:54 PM
The PI was a horrible call....The defender was coming to make a play on the ball and it was incidental contact by the receiver....NOT PI. Just look at the replay... I remember Trent Dilfer was baffled by it and said he didn't understand the call.

The 4th and 2 thing? That play call was first of all idiotic, but for the refs it was the right call cuz I remember the same thing happening to us in the Bengals game this season. KW caught a ball across the marker, but he bobbled it and they said he didn't have possession until after he was pushed back behind the 1st down marker.

Vinny
11-16-2009, 04:47 PM
us. Manning and the Colts are league and media darlings, especially with an undefeated record. Those calls were way too convenient.so you think there is some sort of conspiracy in the NFL for a team in Indy? ~ lol ~ You ever been to Indianapolis?

disaacks3
11-16-2009, 04:55 PM
so you think there is some sort of conspiracy in the NFL for a team in Indy? ~ lol ~ You ever been to Indianapolis?

Don't knock 'em too hard...they are 10th in merchandise sales. (as of 1/8/09)

SportsBusiness Daily reports this morning that the Dallas Cowboys remained atop the league in terms of team merchandise sold.

The Cowboys were followed by the New York Giants, Pittsburgh Steelers, New York Jets, Chicago Bears, New England Patriots, Washington Redskins, Philadelphia Eagles, the Packers and the Indianapolis Colts.

Link (http://www.jsonline.com/blogs/sports/37276089.html)

The Colts are/were very high in the coveted 18-24 yr. old group as well...at least as of Sep. 2008. I'm guessing those numbers didn't drop w/ Peyton going 8-0 to start this year either.

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/article/123748

Rozelle
11-18-2009, 01:31 PM
Question IF Bethea is out of bounds in this picture quich clearly showes he is and his arm is touching the ball, why isnt this ball dead

I know this is old news and all, :deadhorse but I don't see this picture clearly showing Bethea out of bounds. Impossible to tell from the angle. When watching it on the tube, it looked like a fumble to me. Schaub steps up and snaps the ball instead of lettin it run down to the two-minute warning, this is a non issue, at least for the Texans. Like someone said there are questionable calls every game, I don't buy into officials favoring a specific team. It's on to the Titans for a huge Monday Nite game. :popcorn: