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View Full Version : The offensive line sucks (Chris Myers mainly).......but yet we already knew that.


Carr Bombed
11-08-2009, 02:59 PM
We're not going to become a playoff team until we get rid of this bum, he's not a legit starting center in the NFL. Everytime we go up against good playoff Dlines he gets his ass handed to him on a silver platter.

It was only a matter of time before his crappy play would jump up and bite us.......god knows we can't move the ball on the ground when it really matters with him in there either.

Norg
11-08-2009, 03:15 PM
Chirs and Casey SUCKKKSSS SUCCKKKSSS AND SUCKKKSSS !!!!!!old news


Were is cladwell if they suck why do we still run up the middle

im going to kill my self now

Carr Bombed
11-08-2009, 03:25 PM
Chirs and Casey SUCKKKSSS SUCCKKKSSS AND SUCKKKSSS !!!!!!old news


Were is cladwell if they suck why do we still run up the middle

im going to kill my self now

I wouldn't mind spending a first round pick on a center in this year's draft.........I'm serious. When you reach the playoffs (you know the place this team wants to do in the future) you have to have a center that can compete against playoff caliber Dlines.

I've been bitching about that loser for 2 years now, he needs to go. I can't believe a poster on this board actually made a thread calling him our best lineman.

Spike
11-08-2009, 03:27 PM
If the combination of Moats and Slaton continues to be productive - an upgrde in the interior line has to be one of the top two concerns.

Wolf6151
11-08-2009, 03:32 PM
Everyone with the exception of Kubiak knows that Myers needs to be replaced. Hell he should have been replaced after last season.

HJam72
11-08-2009, 03:51 PM
He is a weak-spot, yes, but I don't think he is much to blame for this particular loss.

awtysst
11-08-2009, 03:55 PM
I wouldn't mind spending a first round pick on a center in this year's draft.........I'm serious. When you reach the playoffs (you know the place this team wants to do in the future) you have to have a center that can compete against playoff caliber Dlines.

I've been bitching about that loser for 2 years now, he needs to go. I can't believe a poster on this board actually made a thread calling him our best lineman.

I do not believe there are centers worthy of a first round draft grade in this draft.

thunderkyss
11-08-2009, 04:03 PM
I can't think of anything Myers did or did not do in this game to warrant this. This was by far his worse game, but I still saw worse play from every one on the OL.

I also feel the only reasong Kubiak continues to rotate Caldwell & White, is that he plans for one of them to be our center in the future, and the other to be our right guard.

They are both playing well engough to take that spot, which is why I believe that.

Carr Bombed
11-08-2009, 04:08 PM
He is a weak-spot, yes, but I don't think he is much to blame for this particular loss.

We got absolutely owned at the end of the game and this thread is more of a collection of his "lowlights" on the year.

All the goalline failures over the past 2 seasons.......he owns that.

All the times he gets his ass handed to him against playoff type Dlines......he owns that.

All the times our running game gets blown up inside........he owns that.

He simply isn't a starting caliber center on a playoff team. If we ever want to really push for a playoff spot, a divisional title, or ever want to really have a chance to contend, then he needs to be quality depth on the bench......not starting.

This is the #1 position that needs to be addressed this offseason, it should've been addressed last offseason (drafting a rookie in the 3rd round really isn't "addressing the situation")

If we really want to take the next step on the offensive side of the ball, he's got to go. The interior of the Oline is killing this team (it's already cost us the chance to win quite a few games the past couple of seasons) and he's the #1 problem on the interior of the Oline.

Carr Bombed
11-08-2009, 04:09 PM
I can't think of anything Myers did or did not do in this game to warrant this. This was by far his worse game, but I still saw worse play from every one on the OL.

I also feel the only reasong Kubiak continues to rotate Caldwell & White, is that he plans for one of them to be our center in the future, and the other to be our right guard.

They are both playing well engough to take that spot, which is why I believe that.

Seriously.....do you watch Myers play when you watch the Oline?

Serious question.

HJam72
11-08-2009, 04:11 PM
We got absolutely owned at the end of the game and this thread is more of a collection of his "lowlights" on the year.

All the goalline failures over the past 2 seasons.......he owns that.

All the times he gets his ass handed to him against playoff type Dlines......he owns that.

All the times our running game gets blown up inside........he owns that.

He simply isn't a starting caliber center on a playoff team. If we ever want to really push for a playoff spot, a divisional title, or ever want to really have a chance to contend, then he needs to be quality depth on the bench......not starting.

This is the #1 position that needs to be addressed this offseason, it should've been addressed last offseason (drafting a rookie in the 3rd round really isn't "addressing the situation")

If we really want to take the next step on the offensive side of the ball, he's got to go. The interior of the Oline is killing this team (it's already cost us the chance to win quite a few games the past couple of seasons) and he's the #1 problem on the interior of the Oline.

I can't really argue with that and I can't believe he's still starting either.

hradhak
11-08-2009, 04:32 PM
I think regardless of how good our O line looks, every year we should be drafting a lineman. Not necessarily on the first day, but injuries happen and you never know when you will need to plug in guys in spots they weren't originally intended. At this point, I wouldn't say any of our lineman are irreplaceable. At the same time, Schaub needs to learn to make his reads fast and throw or tuck and run. He isn't helping his cause by holding on to it as long as he has.

ATXtexanfan
11-08-2009, 04:39 PM
We're not going to become a playoff team until we get rid of this bum, he's not a legit starting center in the NFL. Everytime we go up against good playoff Dlines he gets his ass handed to him on a silver platter.

It was only a matter of time before his crappy play would jump up and bite us.......god knows we can't move the ball on the ground when it really matters with him in there either.

where was he on that that terrible schaub pick or the moats fumble?

GP
11-08-2009, 04:43 PM
I can't think of anything Myers did or did not do in this game to warrant this. This was by far his worse game, but I still saw worse play from every one on the OL.

I also feel the only reasong Kubiak continues to rotate Caldwell & White, is that he plans for one of them to be our center in the future, and the other to be our right guard.

They are both playing well engough to take that spot, which is why I believe that.

Myers is bad, TK. Period.

He goes for the double-team to help out the LG and totally blows the man coming right through his own space. He immediately went to the double-team instead of holding his ground for a little bit longer. That was baaaaaad play.

The people griping about anybody not named Chris Myers are bogus.

TheRealJoker
11-08-2009, 04:49 PM
I wouldn't mind us adding a stud interior OL with our first round pick this year. I know...ZBS yadda yadda but if we draft a blue chipper in the 1st maybe we can nip this ongoing issue of not being able to get any push up the middle and Schaub not having a pocket to step into to rest.

Its more important than a "feature back" imo and with the turnaround the defense has had I would say that its our most important need period.

We drafted Caldwell in the 3rd, that's a start but there's something wrong with him if he cant get on the field with 2 starting interior OL on IR. Lets get a bluechipper at any of the 3 spots (preferably C to get rid of Myers once and for all), hope that Caldwell can take a spot and hope Pitts or Brisiel can come back and hold down the other spot.

I'm tired of having such a pathetic interior OL. When our defense gets an INT with 7 minutes left and we're up by 4 points i'd like to be able to run the ball down their throats and score another td with little to no time left to put the game out of reach...not go 3 and out!!! When all we need to do is gain a yard and we get multiple chances on the goal line to do so, i'd like to get some push up the middle instead of having to spread the defense out and "outfinesse" them.

When we get a lead i'd like to have an OL that can knock the DL off the ball and allow us to run out the clock and keep the lead!!!

thunderkyss
11-08-2009, 04:54 PM
Myers is bad, TK. Period.

He goes for the double-team to help out the LG and totally blows the man coming right through his own space. He immediately went to the double-team instead of holding his ground for a little bit longer. That was baaaaaad play.

The people griping about anybody not named Chris Myers are bogus.

If you're talking about the play where Schuab got hit on the delayed blitz that forced the turn over, I'm with you that Myers should have picked that man up.

But no one "saw" the delayed blitz. That should have been called before the snap... Myers was doing his job, according to what they saw pre-snap.

Maybe he should trust Studdard a little more, & keep his eyes upfield & watch the spy...... I don't know. But if that's the worse you got.....

GP
11-08-2009, 04:57 PM
If you're talking about the play where Schuab got hit on the delayed blitz that forced the turn over, I'm with you that Myers should have picked that man up.

But no one "saw" the delayed blitz. That should have been called before the snap... Myers was doing his job, according to what they saw pre-snap.

Maybe he should trust Studdard a little more, & keep his eyes upfield & watch the spy...... I don't know. But if that's the worse you got.....

The center is the man. Outside of the QB, the center should be ready for anything like that.

So, "Yes," it should have been called before the snap. And a starter-quality NFL center should be ready for that sort of thing.

Letting a man come THAT clean is never acceptable. And he's done this before, too. He's been out there looking for loose coins on the field before today.

And in the run game, he's a liability in the red zone.

Nice guy, I've heard. But this might by the need position that could push this team over the top. If we had the player caliber of Brian Cushing at the center position, this whole offense would be better at every aspect of the game.

Forget the secondary, guys. Pollard will do at safety. Center is THE need in round 1.

ATXtexanfan
11-08-2009, 05:03 PM
The center is the man. Outside of the QB, the center should be ready for anything like that.

So, "Yes," it should have been called before the snap. And a starter-quality NFL center should be ready for that sort of thing.

Letting a man come THAT clean is never acceptable. And he's done this before, too. He's been out there looking for loose coins on the field before today.

And in the run game, he's a liability in the red zone.

Nice guy, I've heard. But this might by the need position that could push this team over the top. If we had the player caliber of Brian Cushing at the center position, this whole offense would be better at every aspect of the game.

Forget the secondary, guys. Pollard will do at safety. Center is THE need in round 1.
do you realy think a C is the answer to or O problems?

GP
11-08-2009, 05:14 PM
do you realy think a C is the answer to or O problems?

When the heat is on, I certainly do.

Hey, if you think TODAY was critical and a pressure-cooker game...what is going to happen IF and WHEN we do get to have a playoff game?

Most of Manning's success is directly linked to his center. That's a fact.

I just keep looking at who the sore thumb is on this team. And it isn't the FG kicker. Dude, even our SECONDARY is somehow managing to not screw up thus far this season.

I think we need a much better center than what we have. Instead of hanging losses on the FG kicker. Let's get a guy who locks things down and knows, when the heat is on, what to do and where to go.

When I saw Myers go for the double-team, and I saw that blue jersey take one big step up the middle, I threw my remote before the pick even happened.

It's just predictable. In a glaring manner.

Carr Bombed
11-08-2009, 05:18 PM
do you realy think a C is the answer to or O problems?

Umm.......yeah, what offense are you watching?

QB is fine...

RB could be upgraded (to find a back that won't fumble), but without a inside anchor who can get a push instead of being pushed back we'll still have the same problems

WRs are more than fine

TEs, same as WRs

That leaves offensive line.......mainly the interior of the offensive line. Who's the biggest cluprit in the middle of that line.......center. That center position has cost us MULTIPLE GAMES.

GP
11-08-2009, 05:20 PM
Umm.......yeah, what offense are you watching.

QB is fine...

RB could be upgraded (to find a back that won't fumble), but without a inside anchor who can get a push instead of being pushed back we'll still have the same problems

WRs are more than fine

TEs, same as WRs

That leaves offensive line.......mainly the interior of the offensive line. Who's the biggest cluprit in the middle of that line.......center.

His biggest challenge is when the heat is on. In a clutch situation.

I always look at him when we have a critical play to be made. I'm watching HIM when that ball is snapped.

And I think NFL defenses know what you and I know. I think it's one of the best unknown secrets that opposing D's have in their back pocket vs. us.

Redtexan#34
11-08-2009, 05:35 PM
Last year Our O-line was intact for the whole year. Our line last year was consistent(i didnt say good) and we were able to execute the ZBS and was a huge reason Slaton was successful. My opinion is that Slaton went into this year over confident. You saw on that play in the redzone when he tried to break it outside and got stopped. Coach Gibbs was all over him. he is dancing this year because the wholes are not as big and he thinks hes a probowler and dances and therefore our smaller undersized line has to hold blocks and the yellow flags start to fly. I am not saying Slaton sucks but if he would do what the coaches say there would be less holding calls. Moats he goes about running the ZBS textbook he just hits the whole. The holding flags slow us down and put us in 1st and 20. The Texans have two decent tackles finally but we are suspect in the interior they need to dedicate the offseason to fixing this problem. Use our first 3 draft picks OL if they have to. It is frustrating that our defense is playing well enough to keep us in games our Oline is causing us to be one dimensional. Granted the Oline is not the main reason we lose today but it is a huge component.

jppaul
11-08-2009, 05:52 PM
I was screaming at my tv for Schaub to snap that ball on that fumble play, instead we called a time out, awesome.

rollinstone18
11-08-2009, 06:25 PM
chris white was effing up. i saw winston get in his ear after a play. myers was just bad. he should not be the starter.

eriadoc
11-08-2009, 07:13 PM
We already have our center for next year. The team should draft the best available interior lineman somewhere between the 2nd and 4th rounds (2nd only if the guy's a rainmaker), and address other needs. This team can do better picking their three interior spots from Pitts, Studdard, White, Caldwell, and <insert draft pick here>, plus a possible FA pickup. We're set at tackle for a while.

Wolf
11-08-2009, 07:24 PM
I was screaming at my tv for Schaub to snap that ball on that fumble play, instead we called a time out, awesome.

it was a two minute warning not a timeout
but it is all about the same

Second Honeymoon
11-08-2009, 08:33 PM
Chris Meyers is a pile of sewage. I am sure he is a nice guy and all, but he is utter garbage at Center.

I can say, without hyperbole, that Myers is the worst starting Center in the league. I don't know who he has naked photos of, but he is an abomination.

But he is one of Kubes' boys, so nary a problem.

dalemurphy
11-08-2009, 08:47 PM
Chris Meyers is a pile of sewage. I am sure he is a nice guy and all, but he is utter garbage at Center.

I can say, without hyperbole, that Myers is the worst starting Center in the league. I don't know who he has naked photos of, but he is an abomination.

But he is one of Kubes' boys, so nary a problem.

I think he would be an excellent backup. He is a little more exposed right now without Pitts next to him. I'm confident that this off-season they will address talent level on the interior oline and at RB.

Ryan82
11-08-2009, 09:56 PM
During the game one of the commentators stated that Caldwell was out there. I hope he gets more playing time.

steelbtexan
11-08-2009, 10:17 PM
Last year Our O-line was intact for the whole year. Our line last year was consistent(i didnt say good) and we were able to execute the ZBS and was a huge reason Slaton was successful. My opinion is that Slaton went into this year over confident. You saw on that play in the redzone when he tried to break it outside and got stopped. Coach Gibbs was all over him. he is dancing this year because the wholes are not as big and he thinks hes a probowler and dances and therefore our smaller undersized line has to hold blocks and the yellow flags start to fly. I am not saying Slaton sucks but if he would do what the coaches say there would be less holding calls. Moats he goes about running the ZBS textbook he just hits the whole. The holding flags slow us down and put us in 1st and 20. The Texans have two decent tackles finally but we are suspect in the interior they need to dedicate the offseason to fixing this problem. Use our first 3 draft picks OL if they have to. It is frustrating that our defense is playing well enough to keep us in games our Oline is causing us to be one dimensional. Granted the Oline is not the main reason we lose today but it is a huge component.

Spot On

I'm also begining to get on board with drafting a top shelf RB like Martin 65 has suggested in the draft thread.

Carr Bombed
11-08-2009, 10:25 PM
Spot On

I'm also begining to get on board with drafting a top shelf RB like Martin 65 has suggested in the draft thread.

Drafting a top shelf RB is just going to be a waste of a 1st round pick with this line. The problem starts upfront.....even Ryan Moats (who everybody praises) struggled to run the ball............"but but but, he beasted on the worst run defense in the NFL" :rolleyes: (2.4 ypc today....on a Colts team that isn't known for being a juggernaut against the run). Replace backs.....same result.


Watching this oline reminds me of this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0

Size and strength wins in the trenches.......we lack both in the middle of the line.

I'd rather spend a 1st round pick on a center (regardless if the guy has a 2nd round grade or not) than spend a 1st round pick on a RB who is just going to be doing the same thing that the backs we have now are doing......which is dodging defenders and running into the backs of their offensive lineman that are getting man handled up front.

Carr Bombed
11-08-2009, 10:42 PM
Last year Our O-line was intact for the whole year. Our line last year was consistent(i didnt say good) and we were able to execute the ZBS and was a huge reason Slaton was successful. My opinion is that Slaton went into this year over confident. You saw on that play in the redzone when he tried to break it outside and got stopped. Coach Gibbs was all over him. he is dancing this year because the wholes are not as big and he thinks hes a probowler and dances and therefore our smaller undersized line has to hold blocks and the yellow flags start to fly. I am not saying Slaton sucks but if he would do what the coaches say there would be less holding calls. Moats he goes about running the ZBS textbook he just hits the whole. The holding flags slow us down and put us in 1st and 20. The Texans have two decent tackles finally but we are suspect in the interior they need to dedicate the offseason to fixing this problem. Use our first 3 draft picks OL if they have to. It is frustrating that our defense is playing well enough to keep us in games our Oline is causing us to be one dimensional. Granted the Oline is not the main reason we lose today but it is a huge component.

Slaton wasn't "over confident". There were plenty of articles talking about how hard he worked to avoid the "sophmore slump".....he didn't sit on last season's results. He was quite aware of the number of rookies that have had great seasons and then fell flat on their faces.

He screwed up from day one however when he added weight, which he felt would make him more durable (and that may be true), but the thing that made him so good last year was the fact that he could squirt through small holes and was quick as hell. Last year I said Chris Johnson was the fastest runner in the NFL, but Steve Slaton was the quickest.....and that was the god's honest truth. He had a initial burst that he just doesn't have this year....and that's also the truth (for anybody who's open to admit it....Steve Slaton has lost a initial step, he's not as shifty or as fast off the line, he also can't cut/make people miss like he did last year either)

Also the line isn't playing as well as they did last year....we had multiple starters out during camp/preseason and before we knew it, we had two starters out for the year.....one of the starters who regardless if some posters (I'm not going to name names) would admit it or not said he was the worst lineman on the line, but he was possibly our best lineman in Chester Pitts. He was never healthy during camp/preseason......you know, when we struggled. That also carried into the season and he was never really healthy....and we've struggled ever since.

This team needs to rebuild the middle of the line if they want to become a good running team and frankly, I'd rather scratch the entire ZBS altogether....it's out dated as hell. (I mean think about it.....Gibbs NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE RUNNING GAME, regardless of where he coached...and now he can't run it here :rolleyes:)

You can't just line up a whole bunch of undersized lineman, because they're quicker on their feet (which ours aren't even that) in a leauge today where athlete's like Haloti Ngata are still quicker than your undersized wimpy lineman, but they're also able to toss them around like sand bags. Today's game is a league of athletic freaks.......for christ's sake, just look at Mario. So a system that requires a bunch of weak quick lineman is just going to be out muscled without gaining much in the quickness department. I'd rather get some brawlers in there who can punch back and maull back and PUSH BACK.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 09:35 AM
The center is the man. Outside of the QB, the center should be ready for anything like that.

So, "Yes," it should have been called before the snap. And a starter-quality NFL center should be ready for that sort of thing.

Letting a man come THAT clean is never acceptable. And he's done this before, too. He's been out there looking for loose coins on the field before today.

And in the run game, he's a liability in the red zone.

Nice guy, I've heard. But this might by the need position that could push this team over the top. If we had the player caliber of Brian Cushing at the center position, this whole offense would be better at every aspect of the game.

Forget the secondary, guys. Pollard will do at safety. Center is THE need in round 1.

That stunt was too quick for anybody to pick up.
When a guy (in this case, Myers) had committed to a block, he won't be able to see it.
If anything, Schaub should have thrown that ball away.
He was the only one who can really see the pressure coming.

(TK, it was a straight 5-man blitz.)

76Texan
11-09-2009, 09:42 AM
Slaton wasn't "over confident". There were plenty of articles talking about how hard he worked to avoid the "sophmore slump".....he didn't sit on last season's results. He was quite aware of the number of rookies that have had great seasons and then fell flat on their faces.

He screwed up from day one however when he added weight, which he felt would make him more durable (and that may be true), but the thing that made him so good last year was the fact that he could squirt through small holes and was quick as hell. Last year I said Chris Johnson was the fastest runner in the NFL, but Steve Slaton was the quickest.....and that was the god's honest truth. He had a initial burst that he just doesn't have this year....and that's also the truth (for anybody who's open to admit it....Steve Slaton has lost a initial step, he's not as shifty or as fast off the line, he also can't cut/make people miss like he did last year either)

Also the line isn't playing as well as they did last year....we had multiple starters out during camp/preseason and before we knew it, we had two starters out for the year.....one of the starters who regardless if some posters (I'm not going to name names) would admit it or not said he was the worst lineman on the line, but he was possibly our best lineman in Chester Pitts. He was never healthy during camp/preseason......you know, when we struggled. That also carried into the season and he was never really healthy....and we've struggled ever since.

This team needs to rebuild the middle of the line if they want to become a good running team and frankly, I'd rather scratch the entire ZBS altogether....it's out dated as hell. (I mean think about it.....Gibbs NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE RUNNING GAME, regardless of where he coached...and now he can't run it here :rolleyes:)

You can't just line up a whole bunch of undersized lineman, because they're quicker on their feet (which ours aren't even that) in a leauge today where athlete's like Haloti Ngata are still quicker than your undersized wimpy lineman, but they're also able to toss them around like sand bags. Today's game is a league of athletic freaks.......for christ's sake, just look at Mario. So a system that requires a bunch of weak quick lineman is just going to be out muscled without gaining much in the quickness department. I'd rather get some brawlers in there who can punch back and maull back and PUSH BACK.

You can have your own idea what you would like to do with the offensive scheme.

But as far as I can see; Kubiak is going to stick with the ZBS, so get used to http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif

76Texan
11-09-2009, 09:44 AM
Chris Meyers is a pile of sewage. I am sure he is a nice guy and all, but he is utter garbage at Center.

I can say, without hyperbole, that Myers is the worst starting Center in the league. I don't know who he has naked photos of, but he is an abomination.

But he is one of Kubes' boys, so nary a problem.

You have outdone yourself once again! :roast:

HOU-TEX
11-09-2009, 09:51 AM
That stunt was too quick for anybody to pick up.
When a guy (in this case, Myers) had committed to a block, he won't be able to see it.
If anything, Schaub should have thrown that ball away.
He was the only one who can really see the pressure coming.

(TK, it was a straight 5-man blitz.)

Come on, 76. Schaub wasn't even finished with his drop when Myers whiffed on the guy. Studdard had his guy handled for the most part. All Myers needed to do was a one haned check while keeping his position.

Too quick for anybody to pick up is bull butter. It would've easily been picked up if Myers did his job.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 09:53 AM
Come on, 76. Schaub wasn't even finished with his drop when Myers whiffed on the guy. Studdard had his guy handled for the most part. All Myers needed to do was a one haned check while keeping his position.

Too quick for anybody to pick up is bull butter. It would've easily been picked up if Myers did his job.

Myers was blocking his man.
It was Studdard's guy who stunted to the inside.

HOU-TEX
11-09-2009, 09:57 AM
Myers was blocking his man.
It was Studdard's guy who stunted to the inside.

I know this. You expect Studdard and Myers to cross with the Dlinemen stunting? Good grief, I'm bowing out of this one. I know who the weakest link of the Oline is. If you refuse to see it, fine.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:02 AM
Schaub was in the shotgun.
The Colts had a 3-man line.
Myers took on the Nose Tackle.
The Colts showed 6 and blitz 5.
The LB who was on Studdard stunted to the inside.
Schaub had the guy in his line of vision the whole time but chose to ignore him.

Schaub had both of his feet set (ready to throw) when the LB crossed the 45. Schaub took an additional couple of shuffle steps. The guy got to him on the 49 yd line.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:05 AM
I know this. You expect Studdard and Myers to cross with the Dlinemen stunting? Good grief, I'm bowing out of this one. I know who the weakest link of the Oline is. If you refuse to see it, fine.

I did not say that I expect Studdard and Myers to cross. (you did).
I said once Myers committed to blocking the NT, he can't see the LB stunted around that quickly.

Schaub was the one who can see all this the most clearly.
Slaton couldn't see it, because he had committed himself to the right side.
And he was in the backfield.
How do you expect Myers to see it right away is beyond me, I'm sorry!
Maybe the guy needs to have eyes above his ears! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

I'm playing it in slo-mo on my flat screen TV for the last 15 mins now!
Schaub has got to throw that ball away, or he needs to step to the left if he decided he wants to have a go for it.
In fact, there's empty field right in front of Schaub.
He needs to be aware of that the whole time.
There's plenty of room for him to step up!

Cjeremy635
11-09-2009, 10:07 AM
I'm not saying that Myers played well yesterday, but Brown needs his share of the heat. I'm not an O-line expert, like some of you guys on here, but I saw him get manhandled a lot yesterday. If I'm not mistaken, he started to look better after we started to give him some help. He was getting pushed back like a 5 year old school girl. Sure, he was going against some good talent, but he gets paid to make those blocks any way he can. If you have to cut their legs, cut em'. Do something other than what he was doing.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:10 AM
Schaub was in the shotgun.
The Colts had a 3-man line.
Myers took on the Nose Tackle.
The Colts showed 6 and blitz 5.
The LB who was on Studdard stunted to the inside.
Schaub had the guy in his line of vision the whole time but chose to ignore him.

Schaub had both of his feet set (ready to throw) when the LB crossed the 45. Schaub took an additional couple of shuffle steps. The guy got to him on the 49 yd line.


My god :rolleyes: All you do is make excuses for Myers......seriously, you have to be related to him or something. I mean anybody who watches this guy every Sunday and then can actually come on here and call him our "best offensive lineman" has to be a brother or cousin of this guy.

Stop making excuses for this guy's piss poor play, That play was NOT ON SCHAUB.......IT WAS ALL ON MYERS....AND MYERS SUCKS, so please stop coming in here trying to sell him to us. Anybody who has watched a lick of football can tell how awful he is.

Redtexan#34
11-09-2009, 10:12 AM
You can have your own idea what you would like to do with the offensive scheme.

But as far as I can see; Kubiak is going to stick with the ZBS, so get used to http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon6.gif

I agree.

Car-bombed I also agree with you that Slaton has lost a step I have been thinking that from the start of preseason. He does not hit the wholes like he did last year although they are not as big or present due to injurys on the line. When I say he is over confident I mean he must see that he lost a step due to the added weight and thinks he can make things happen.

I would agree I would love us to get away from the ZBS and play more power football but its here to stay. At the same time i dont think the NFL has made such a huge jump this year over last year that the ZBS has become extinct it worked good last year. We really miss the injured lineman as much as we miss OD I think.

Texan_Bill
11-09-2009, 10:14 AM
Dude, plain and simple; Myers sucks.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:14 AM
I'm not saying that Myers played well yesterday, but Brown needs his share of the heat. I'm not an O-line expert, like some of you guys on here, but I saw him get manhandled a lot yesterday. If I'm not mistaken, he started to look better after we started to give him some help. He was getting pushed back like a 5 year old school girl. Sure, he was going against some good talent, but he gets paid to make those blocks any way he can. If you have to cut their legs, cut em'. Do something other than what he was doing.

Duane Brown was going up against a top 3 player at his position yesterday.....many LTs struggle against that guy, so I don't have a problem with Brown, because usually he holds his spot down just about every week, while Myers F's us just about every Sunday.

Freeney is having his best year as a pro this season......that guy is simply on a roll.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:18 AM
My god :rolleyes: All you do is make excuses for Myers......seriously, you have to be related to him or something. I mean anybody who watches this guy every Sunday and then can actually come on here and call him our "best offensive lineman" has to be a brother or cousin of this guy.

Stop making excuses for this guy's piss poor play, That play was NOT ON SCHAUB.......IT WAS ALL ON MYERS....AND MYERS SUCKS, so please stop coming in here trying to sell him to us. Anybody who has watched a lick of football can tell how awful he is.

My god, all you do is to make excuse for Schaub!

I never said Myers is our best offensive lineman.
I said he is our most effective lineman overall, mostly due to his skills on the second level.

This play is ALL ON SCHAUB!
HE SAW THE WHOLE THING! HE MADE A TERRIBLE DECISION WITH THE BALL!

Anybody who watches a lot of licks of football can tell you how awful he was on that play!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:21 AM
Duane Brown was going up against a top 3 player at his position yesterday.....many LTs struggle against that guy, so I don't have a problem with Brown, because usually he holds his spot down just about every week, while Myers F's us just about every Sunday.

Freeney is having his best year as a pro this season......that guy is simply on a roll.

You keep on talking round and round.
To criticize Myers, you would say he can't handle the best DTackles and NTs in the league.
Then to protect D. Brown, you would say... but but but he had to go against Freeney!

Amazing argument to say the least! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 10:23 AM
My god, all you do is to make excuse for Schaub!

I never said Myers is our best offensive lineman.
I said he is our most effective lineman overall, mostly due to his skills on the second level.

This play is ALL ON SCHAUB!
HE SAW THE WHOLE THING! HE MADE A TERRIBLE DECISION WITH THE BALL!

Anybody who watch a lot of licks of football can tell you how awful he was on that play!

Come on! Myers missed the stunt. Now, I think Schaub shares in the blame as well. But, Myers needs to pick that guy up. If he misses him as he did, Schaub needs to get rid of it clean. I don't think Myers or Schaub suck but I think this was a poor game by both. Moreso, I think Shanny called a poor game. We needed more misdirection and more power runs on the edges of this defense. I also thought the protection schemes were too simple and they should've mixed them up more.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:25 AM
Come on! Myers missed the stunt. Now, I think Schaub shares in the blame as well. But, Myers needs to pick that guy up. If he misses him as he did, Schaub needs to get rid of it clean. I don't think Myers or Schaub suck but I think this was a poor game by both. Moreso, I think Shanny called a poor game. We needed more misdirection and more power runs on the edges of this defense. I also thought the protection schemes were too simple and they should've mixed them up more.

The NT was on top of Myers. He started to penetrated to Myer's left.
If you're a C, what are you supposed to do?
Let him go free?

Watch the play again, Dale!

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:26 AM
My god, all you do is to make excuse for Schaub!

I never said Myers is our best offensive lineman.
I said he is our most effective lineman overall, mostly due to his skills on the second level.

LMAO :) Spoken like a true politician

Chris Myers "effectively" costs this team ball games REPEATEDLY.... how's that for "being effective".


This play is ALL ON SCHAUB!
HE SAW THE WHOLE THING! HE MADE A TERRIBLE DECISION WITH THE BALL!

Anybody who watch a lot of licks of football can tell you how awful he was on that play!

:rolleyes: It's Myers' job to pick up that defender... Schaub can't throw the ball unless somebody is open and nobody was open that fast....and he really can't throw the ball when there's a freaking guy in his face, because his sucky ass center can't do his job. Myers is simply overmatched out there.....he's the worst center this team has every had. He's actually one of the worst centers I've ever seen.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:28 AM
Schaub needs to get rid of it clean. I don't think Myers or Schaub suck but I think this was a poor game by both. I'm gonna do the play-by-play later when I have time.

But on this play, at least Schaub had to sidestep to his left and then up the middle!

He had nothing but green turf in front!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:29 AM
LMAO :) Spoken like a true politician

Chris Myers "effectively" costs this team ball games REPEATEDLY.... how's that for "being effective".




:rolleyes: It's Myers' job to pick up that defender... Schaub can't throw the ball unless somebody is open and nobody is going to come open that fast....and he really can't throw the ball when there's a freaking guy in his face, because his sucky ass center can't do his job.
Let's talk about other "costly mistakes" later.

Let's talk about this play right here.
Why do you keep making excuse for Schaub.

Let me ask you something:
Does the pressure come right in front of Schaub?
Yes or No, Simple as that!

Cjeremy635
11-09-2009, 10:30 AM
Come on! Myers missed the stunt. Now, I think Schaub shares in the blame as well. But, Myers needs to pick that guy up. If he misses him as he did, Schaub needs to get rid of it clean. I don't think Myers or Schaub suck but I think this was a poor game by both. Moreso, I think Shanny called a poor game. We needed more misdirection and more power runs on the edges of this defense. I also thought the protection schemes were too simple and they should've mixed them up more.

I have to agree with that statement. We tried to force the pass way too much in the beginning of the game and it cost us. Apparently, AJ thought the same thing:
WR Andre Johnson
(on why it took until midway into the second period for the offense to get on track) "I think going against this team, you can't be one dimensional. In the first half, we were just trying to win the ball game and throw the ball. You have to rush the ball on this team. Once we started getting the running game going, it opened up everything. The biggest thing for us is just getting in a rhythm, and we didn't get in a rhythm in the first half."



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5796

HOU-TEX
11-09-2009, 10:31 AM
Come on! Myers missed the stunt. Now, I think Schaub shares in the blame as well. But, Myers needs to pick that guy up. If he misses him as he did, Schaub needs to get rid of it clean. I don't think Myers or Schaub suck but I think this was a poor game by both. Moreso, I think Shanny called a poor game. We needed more misdirection and more power runs on the edges of this defense. I also thought the protection schemes were too simple and they should've mixed them up more.

Especially in the first half. Maybe Shanny thought he'd be able to take advantage of a banged up secondary? Obviously that was not the case, at least in the 1st half.

The Colts have always been susceptible against the run. A better mixture of run and pass would've opened play-action up too. Which they figured out in the 2nd half.

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 10:37 AM
The NT was on top of Myers. He started to penetrated to Myer's left.
If you're a C, what are you supposed to do?
Let him go free?

Watch the play again, Dale!

I've seen it 3 times. Myers and Studdard are working a double team. The LB stunts from Studdard's side. If you are going to be a little undersized as a center, I understand and can accept Kris Jenkins slapping you around. But, he needs to have the athleticism to come off that double team and get to the LB, who was coming right up the middle. One hand would've redirected him enough for Schaub to get it off clean.

JDizzle
11-09-2009, 10:38 AM
DVR Kingz ridin' dirty up in heah

Redtexan#34
11-09-2009, 10:40 AM
Ok not trying to be a smart ass or captain obvious but this team Runs the ZBS. The running game is created by the finesse agile line. This is why In Denver they just plugged RBs in there every year. The name of the thread is why we have not been successful and therefore have been one dimensional. Did you see how happy Kubiak was against the Bills. We were able to run because the Bills run defense is pathetic. We run the Ball we dont have to throw the Ball all over the field.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:41 AM
Let's talk about other "costly mistakes" later.

Let's talk about this play right here.
Why do you keep making excuse for Schaub.

Let me ask you something:
Does the pressure come right in front of Schaub?
Yes or No, Simple as that!

LMAO.....I'm not making excuses for Schaub....Myers has to make that play, THAT'S HIS JOB. Stop trying to dodge the fact that the guy you back every monday, usually sucks ever Sunday.

And YES pressure comes up the middle..That's what happened yesterday, that is one of the reasons why we LOST yesterday..it has happened more than this game, but his pass protection isn't even my biggest gripe with this guy, it's his inability to not suck on short yardage situations.

Second Honeymoon
11-09-2009, 10:44 AM
You have outdone yourself once again! :roast:

so are you one of the Myers apologists? the guy was and always will be garbage at Center.

how many times does he have to be lying on his arse or whiffing on a block before we cut this piece of crap?

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:44 AM
I've seen it 3 times. Myers and Studdard are working a double team. The LB stunts from Studdard's side. If you are going to be a little undersized as a center, I understand and can accept Kris Jenkins slapping you around. But, he needs to have the athleticism to come off that double team and get to the LB, who was coming right up the middle. One hand would've redirected him enough for Schaub to get it off clean.

And I have watched that play about 50 times already.
When Myers started his block on the NT, Studdard started his on the LB.

Myers put his helmet on the NT to push him toward his left (as you should to get all the bodies jam together); that was when the LB made his move to the inside. Myers' view was obstructed for a fraction of a second there.

I don't understand why you guys can't see that Myers had to take on the NT.
That was his main assignment to start the play.

And you want to remember that the LB started his move to the outside as well.

BigBull17
11-09-2009, 10:45 AM
The NT was on top of Myers. He started to penetrated to Myer's left.
If you're a C, what are you supposed to do?
Let him go free?
Watch the play again, Dale!

Yes, you pass him to the guard and slide back inside to pick up the blitzer. Thats how Oline protection works.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:45 AM
We try to force the pass, because the coaching staff has absolutely NO confidence is their running game.....and can anybody really blame them? I mean this is the same coaching staff that everybody was trashing for trying to force the run issue and everybody said they HAD to pass in order to open up running games. Chris Myers is one of the biggest reasons why we can't run the ball.....if the middle of our line didn't suck so bad, our coaching staff would have some faith in moving the ball on the ground. Also when your backs constantly fumble the ball do you really have faith putting the ball in their hands late in ball games? I'm pretty sure we lead the league in fumbles.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:46 AM
Yes, you pass him to the guard and slide back inside to pick up the blitzer. Thats how Oline protection works.

I know, this guy is clueless.....but I knew that the moment he said Myers is our best...oops, most "effective offensive lineman" :rolleyes:

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:48 AM
LMAO.....I'm not making excuses for Schaub....Myers has to make that play, THAT'S HIS JOB. Stop trying to dodge the fact that the guy you back every monday, usually sucks ever Sunday.

And YES pressure comes up the middle...Who's dodging the question now?

I asked you did the pressure come right in front of Schaub?

Can Schaub see it?

I took it you agree that Schaub saw the pressure coming.

So what's the worse that can happen when Myers didn't pick up the blitzing LB?

An incompletion!

What's so bad about it?
Enough to blame the INT on him?

Second Honeymoon
11-09-2009, 10:48 AM
The NT was on top of Myers. He started to penetrated to Myer's left.
If you're a C, what are you supposed to do?
Let him go free?

Watch the play again, Dale!

watching a play over and over trying to come up with excuses for the worst Center in the league doesn't make you an authority..it makes you something but its not an authority.

Myers sucks. End of story.

How many games does he have to cost us? We are up to 3 already. How many more does it take?

Myers would be a 3rd stringer on any other team except maybe a few he would be backup....which of course is what he was before he came here

Kubiak needs to get rid of this loser...now.

BigBull17
11-09-2009, 10:49 AM
I know, this guy is clueless.....but I knew that the moment he said Myers is our best...opps, most "effective offensive lineman" :rolleyes:

If I had missed that block when I played, I would STILL be removing shoe lace from my a-hole. Elementry stuff.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:51 AM
Who's dodging the question now?

I asked you did the pressure come right in front of Schaub?

Can Schaub see it?

I took it you agree that Schaub saw the pressure coming.

So what's the worse that can happen when Myers didn't pick up the blitzing LB?

An incompletion!

What's so bad about it?
Enough to blame the INT on him?

He tried to get the pass off....he was a little late and was hit...that's what happens when a offensive lineman ****s up...

I seriously don't know what the hell you're trying to prove here. When pressure comes up the middle, bad things tend to happen.....TO EVERY QB.

LOL, I'm not the one dodging here pal, what you're trying to pass off is a absolute joke. Seriously..stop trying to sell Myers, he sucks...everybody knows he sucks...the entire league knows he sucks and if that guy is the starting center of this team next year, both Gibbs and Kubiak need to be fired on the spot.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:52 AM
I know, this guy is clueless.....but I knew that the moment he said Myers is our best...opps, most "effective offensive lineman" :rolleyes:

Did you break down each and every O-lineman on each and every play?

If you think I'm clueless, than don't bother talking football with me.
Let's say the feelings are mutual and go on our seperate ways!

If you think you can make sense in an argument, then bring it on!
You don't need to cut down people just because they disagree with you.

HOU-TEX
11-09-2009, 10:54 AM
If I had missed that block when I played, I would STILL be removing shoe lace from my a-hole. Elementry stuff.

:spit: Ain't that the truth.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:55 AM
He tried to get the pass off....he was a little late and was hit...that's what happens when a offensive lineman ****s up...

I seriously don't know what the hell you're trying to prove here. When pressure comes up the middle, bad things tend to happen.....TO EVERY QB.

LOL, I'm not the one dodging here pal, what you're trying to pass off is a absolute joke. Seriously..stop trying to sell Myers, he sucks...everybody knows he sucks...the entire league knows he sucks and if that guy is the starting center of this team next year, both Gibbs and Kubiak need to be fired on the spot.

Let's stick to the facts, shall we?

A claim that the entire league knows he sucks is simply unbelievable!
Did they tell you that?
Or did you just pull a rabit out of a hat?

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:56 AM
Did you break down each and every O-lineman on each and every play?

If you think I'm clueless, than don't bother talking football with me.
Let's say the feelings are mutual and go on our seperate ways!

If you think you can make sense in an argument, then bring it on!
You don't need to cut down people just because they disagree with you.

LMAO, the fact that you actually break down every play and still come in here trying to praise this guy speaks more to your credibility flaws more than anything.

I don't have to watch "suck" 50 times to recognize it....I can see "suck" pop off the screen on live TV. Also, I'm not the one who's defending my argument against multiple people here.....but you're the only one that's right, EVERYBODY else is wrong. :rolleyes:

76Texan
11-09-2009, 10:57 AM
watching a play over and over trying to come up with excuses for the worst Center in the league doesn't make you an authority..it makes you something but its not an authority.

Myers sucks. End of story.

How many games does he have to cost us? We are up to 3 already. How many more does it take?

Myers would be a 3rd stringer on any other team except maybe a few he would be backup....which of course is what he was before he came here

Kubiak needs to get rid of this loser...now.Right, so he's been the starter for 2 teams now. Show me how correct you are!

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 10:58 AM
Let's stick to the facts, shall we?

A claim that the entire league knows he sucks is simply unbelievable!
Did they tell you that?
Or did you just pull a rabit out of a hat?

Defensive Coordinators watch tape too and unlike YOU they can see he sucks.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:00 AM
LMAO, the fact that you actually break down every play and still come in here trying to praise this guy speaks more to your credibility flaws more than anything.

I don't have to watch "suck" 50 times to recognize it....I can see "suck" pop off the screen on live TV. Also, I'm not the one who's defending my argument against multiple people here.....but you're the only one that's right, EVERYBODY else is wrong. :rolleyes:

Sometimes it just works out that way! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

So far, the fact that he remains the starting center for the Texans tell me that I have some credibility!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:03 AM
Defensive Coordinators watch tape too and unlike YOU they can see he sucks.

Did they tell you that?

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 11:04 AM
And I have watched that play about 50 times already.
When Myers started his block on the NT, Studdard started his on the LB.

Myers put his helmet on the NT to push him toward his left (as you should to get all the bodies jam together); that was when the LB made his move to the inside. Myers' view was obstructed for a fraction of a second there.

I don't understand why you guys can't see that Myers had to take on the NT.
That was his main assignment to start the play.

And you want to remember that the LB started his move to the outside as well.

I'm not one of the guys arguing that Myers sucks. I understand that it wasn't an easy pickup. But, part of interior pass protection, is passing off one guy and picking up another. Clearly, it was his job to block that LB and he was unable to do it. His failure, combined with Schaub's sloppiness, caused that interception.

I'm sure that if you asked Chris Myers, he would say he has got to come off that first block and pickup the LB. And, if you asked Schaub, he would say he's got to get rid of the ball and protect it better on that play..

Of course, we can argue about this play all day. The reality is that the entire offense, from QB to playcalling to OL to RB was very inefficient yesterday. And, as a result, we are left crying about any one of 5 or 6 plays that could have turned a L into a W.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:05 AM
LMAO, the fact that you actually break down every play and still come in here trying to praise this guy speaks more to your credibility flaws more than anything.


The fact that I break down every play gives me a good idea how each linemen perform on each given play.

At least, I have a basis to rate their overall performance, and not just base my opinions on one or two plays.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:05 AM
Right, so he's been the starter for 2 teams now. Show me how correct you are!

So far, the fact that he remains the starting center for the Texans tell me that I have some credibility!

LMAO... Dude, Glenn Earl was our starting safety for THREE YEARS! (but let me guess..he was our "most effective" safety too huh?) The fact that this guy has been our starter for two, doesn't speak anything about your "credibility" it speaks VOLUMES about our lack of talented depth at the position. Why the hell do you think I'd be willing to spend a first round pick on a center?

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:06 AM
The fact that I break down every play gives me a good idea how each linemen perform on each given play.

At least, I have a basis to rate their overall performance, and not just base my opinions on one or two plays.

umm who said I was basing my opinion off one or two plays.....and I don't care how much "tape you watch", you don't even understand basic protection responsibilities.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:08 AM
I'm not one of the guys arguing that Myers sucks. I understand that it wasn't an easy pickup. But, part of interior pass protection, is passing off one guy and picking up another. Clearly, it was his job to block that LB and he was unable to do it. His failure, combined with Schaub's sloppiness, caused that interception.

I'm sure that if you asked Chris Myers, he would say he has got to come off that first block and pickup the LB. And, if you asked Schaub, he would say he's got to get rid of the ball and protect it better on that play..

Of course, we can argue about this play all day. The reality is that the entire offense, from QB to playcalling to OL to RB was very inefficient yesterday. And, as a result, we are left crying about any one of 5 or 6 plays that could have turned a L into a W.If you watch it carefully, Dale.
Myers had not finished passing the NT to Studdard yet.

It was a difficult angle.

I don't try to apologize for anybody.
I just call things as I see it!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:10 AM
LMAO... Dude, Glenn Earl was our starting safety for THREE YEARS! (but let me guess..he was our "most effective" safety too huh?) The fact that this guy has been our starter for two, doesn't speak anything about your "credibility" it speaks VOLUMES about our lack of talented depth at the position. Why the hell do you think I'd be willing to spend a first round pick on a center?

And until we can find somebody who is better than Myers, he remains our starter!

TimeKiller
11-09-2009, 11:12 AM
Right, so he's been the starter for 2 teams now. Show me how correct you are!

So he was a backup who filled in for an injury and was handed the job here after McKinney aged out. And let's not even get into the Denver buddy system.

As a run blocker the guy has absolutely zero push, due to his small frame and lack of strength. Frankly, his strength "agility" or "quickness" is bull**** because I see other teams with well over 300 pound lineman being able to get where they need to be to make their blocks anywhere they are called to do it. I guess being a fast center is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

As a pass blocker he tops out at adequate. Best C ever.

Funny how our biggest, fastest, strongest, most improved, highest ceiling having lineman was our reach of a 1st round pick: Duane Brown. Frankly I don't know how Studdard has a spot on lockdown but White/Caldwell have to share snaps.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:12 AM
umm who said I was basing my opinion off one or two plays.....and I don't care how much "tape you watch", you don't even understand basic protection responsibilities.

Geez! You should have complained about Winston and any of our RG/TE for failure to pass off blitzers that happened way so many times in the past!

GP
11-09-2009, 11:13 AM
Come on, 76. Schaub wasn't even finished with his drop when Myers whiffed on the guy. Studdard had his guy handled for the most part. All Myers needed to do was a one haned check while keeping his position.
Too quick for anybody to pick up is bull butter. It would've easily been picked up if Myers did his job.

Exactly.

Myers should have one-hand checked the NT (by using the left hand) and kept the right hand out and looking with eyes toward the LB but keeping the NT (to his left) in his peripheral line of vision.

This enables him to provide some sort of remaining contact with the area the NT is in, but keeps his focus on that HUGE hole in the middle that was right in front of his face.

Instead, he completely wheels around to his left and turns his back to the hole in front of him.

He made a pretty costly decision to try and finish off the NT. In fact, he should have been focusing on only backpedaling even MORE in order to get back and protect that huge space that someone was eventually going to be barreling through. Instead, he didn't want to be guilty of not putting a block on someone, and yet it was the worst choice to have made.

IMO, he was worried about what it looks like on game film meetings later in the week when someone might say to him "Why didn't you go over and help out Studdard? Nobody was there and you never even blocked anybody."

I would not say he needs to be cut, but I would say that he's backup material and good when a starter goes down to injury.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:17 AM
So he was a backup who filled in for an injury and was handed the job here after McKinney aged out. And let's not even get into the Denver buddy system.

As a run blocker the guy has absolutely zero push, due to his small frame and lack of strength. Frankly, his strength "agility" or "quickness" is bull**** because I see other teams with well over 300 pound lineman being able to get where they need to be to make their blocks anywhere they are called to do it. I guess being a fast center is like being the smartest kid on the short bus.

As a pass blocker he tops out at adequate. Best C ever.

Funny how our biggest, fastest, strongest, most improved, highest ceiling having lineman was our reach of a 1st round pick: Duane Brown. Frankly I don't know how Studdard has a spot on lockdown but White/Caldwell have to share snaps.You want to remember that in the off-season, I was all for finding a stronger Center who's as agile as Myers (or a little less).

I never claim that he can be the best ever that a great team should have.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:18 AM
And until we can find somebody who is better than Myers, he remains our starter!

Umm......that's the whole point, the guy needs to be replaced...even if it takes a first round pick or a high priced FA.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:21 AM
Geez! You should have complained about Winston and any of our RG/TE for failure to pass off blitzers that happened way so many times in the past!

Winston is our best run blocker, so since he is way above average at one thing, I can live with him missing a block in pass protection every once in awhile, Myers sucks at pretty much everything. BTW, Winston has done a MUCH better job in pass protection this year than he did last year and are you really going to complain about the pro-bowl TE play we have got over the years :lol:

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:25 AM
Exactly.

Myers should have one-hand checked the NT (by using the left hand) and kept the right hand out and looking with eyes toward the LB but keeping the NT (to his left) in his peripheral line of vision.

This enables him to provide some sort of remaining contact with the area the NT is in, but keeps his focus on that HUGE hole in the middle that was right in front of his face.

Instead, he completely wheels around to his left and turns his back to the hole in front of him.

He made a pretty costly decision to try and finish off the NT. In fact, he should have been focusing on only backpedaling even MORE in order to get back and protect that huge space that someone was eventually going to be barreling through. Instead, he didn't want to be guilty of not putting a block on someone, and yet it was the worst choice to have made.

IMO, he was worried about what it looks like on game film meetings later in the week when someone might say to him "Why didn't you go over and help out Studdard? Nobody was there and you never even blocked anybody."

I would not say he needs to be cut, but I would say that he's backup material and good when a starter goes down to injury.
But he did backpedal.
I think you are asking for a perfect play that can't happen when a NT is right on top of the Center.

Second Honeymoon
11-09-2009, 11:30 AM
Right, so he's been the starter for 2 teams now. Show me how correct you are!

he was a backup with the Broncos....next. this Myers man-love is something to behold though.

proud of you.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:31 AM
Winston is our best run blocker, so since he is way above average at one thing, I can live with him missing a block in pass protection every once in awhile, Myers sucks at pretty much everything. BTW, Winston has done a MUCH better job in pass protection this year than he did last year and are you really going to complain about the pro-bowl TE play we have got over the years :lol:

I hate to tell you but Winston is neither our best run blocker nor pass blocker last year.

He does pretty well so far this year, but he still allowed 3 sacks, 4 QB Hits, and 10 pressures. That is only better than D.Brown.
But I want to note that some of these were brought upon by Schaub himself.
And that the interior line has more combo blocks than the tackles.

Myers is our best blocker in space.
I've seen him block 2, even 3 guys on one play.
I've seen him pancake a lot of defenders, including Shaun Rogers (but mostly LBs and safeties).

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:33 AM
he was a backup with the Broncos....next. this Myers man-love is something to behold though.

proud of you.

He started all 16 games for the Broncos in 07.

He won the starting LG spot and played very well in the five games he started at LG.
When Nalen was injured, he took over the C spot.
That shows you how versatile he is.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:34 AM
he was a backup with the Broncos. next.

Not only was he a backup with the Broncos......he was traded for a 6th rounder despite longtime starter Tom Nalen getting a injury that made him finally retire. The Broncos saw all they needed to tell that he sucks and we plucked him off their trash heap. He's a backup, but they didn't even want to keep him for depth.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:36 AM
I hate to tell you but Winston is neither our best run blocker nor pass blocker last year.

He does pretty well so far this year, but he still allowed 3 sacks, 4 QB Hits, and 10 pressures. That is only better than D.Brown.
But I want to note that some of these were brought upon by Schaub himself.
And that the interior line has more combo blocks than the tackles.

Myers is our best blocker in space.
I've seen him block 2, even 3 guys on one play.
I've seen him pancake a lot of defenders, including Shaun Rogers (but mostly LBs and safeties).

Winston is the best run blocker on this team.....I don't need your little stat machine to tell me that, if it's the same stat machine that has you believing that Myers is the most "effective" lineman on this team then that machine is broken. I also don't give a crap about what Myers does "in space", it's when he has to put the big boy pants on near the goal line or in short yardage situations that he fails miserably.

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 11:36 AM
I hate to tell you but Winston is neither our best run blocker nor pass blocker last year.

He does pretty well so far this year, but he still allowed 3 sacks, 4 QB Hits, and 10 pressures. That is only better than D.Brown.
But I want to note that some of these were brought upon by Schaub himself.
And that the interior line has more combo blocks than the tackles.

Myers is our best blocker in space.
I've seen him block 2, even 3 guys on one play.
I've seen him pancake a lot of defenders, including Shaun Rogers (but mostly LBs and safeties).

"I've seen him lift a hundred pounds over his head like it's nothing! He's powerful!!" Jerry Seinfeld, talking up George's attributes to Elaine when they decided to fix-up George with Elaine's friend.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:39 AM
are you really going to complain about the pro-bowl TE play we have got over the years :lol:

Our "Pro-Bowl" TE is the one guy who needs to improve his blocking skills! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

He whiffed a whole lot more times than your "scrub" Center, especially when you pro-rate the number of blocks he took on.

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 11:40 AM
Not only was he a backup with the Broncos......he was traded for a 6th rounder despite longtime starter Tom Nalen getting a injury that made him finally retire. The Broncos saw all they needed to tell that he sucks and we plucked him off their trash heap. He's a backup, but they didn't even want to keep him for depth.

Not exactly true. He was a restricted FA. And, we would've signed him away from them for a 6th rounder anyway. But, the Broncos just turned it into a trade (for the same compensation). The point being, they were going to keep him at his initial salary. But, when the Texans offered him a fairly significant deal, that is when Denver decided to cut him loose.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:40 AM
"I've seen him lift a hundred pounds over his head like it's nothing! He's powerful!!" Jerry Seinfeld, talking up George's attributes to Elaine when they decided to fix-up George with Elaine's friend.

Except Shaun Rogers is more than 3 times that much! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:40 AM
He started all 16 games for the Broncos in 07.

He won the starting LG spot and played very well in the five games he started at LG.
When Nalen was injured, he took over the C spot.
That shows you how versatile he is.

Then why didn't the Broncos want to keep somebody so young, cheap, and "versatile"?

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:42 AM
Not exactly true. He was a restricted FA. And, we would've signed him away from them for a 6th rounder anyway. But, the Broncos just turned it into a trade (for the same compensation). The point being, they were going to keep him at his initial salary. But, when the Texans offered him a fairly significant deal, that is when Denver decided to cut him loose.

Same difference.....they were willing to part with the guy for a 6th round pick. If he was so great, Denver would've kept him. ESPECIALLY with Nalen nearing the end.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 11:44 AM
Our "Pro-Bowl" TE is the one guy who needs to improve his blocking skills! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

He whiffed a whole lot more times than your "scrub" Center, especially when you pro-rate the number of blocks he took on.

LOL, I know Daniels isn't the best run blocker, the difference is that's not his #1 responsibility and he does so many other things well that I'm not going to complain......unlike your mancrush Myers.

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 11:48 AM
Same difference.....they were willing to part with the guy for a 6th round pick. If he was so great, Denver would've kept him. ESPECIALLY with Nalen nearing the end.

It was the contract that made the difference. By the way, if you use that same kind of logic, then you must really think Bernard Pollard sucks!

Look, I think 76Texan is a bit enamored with Myers. But, I like the fact that a fan appreciates anunheralded player on the offensive line. And, not because he's from UT. When you pay a guy $2 per year and get him for a 6th round pick, it's silly to expect him to dominate games. He has been, at the very least, servicable as this team's center. As fans, the last thing we should do when we play a game like we did yesterday, is try and focus all our frustrations on one player... Particularly when he wasn't playing with a lack of effort. The entire offense was ugly yesterday. On a day when I thought the offense and special teams' would have to play exceptionally for us to win, it turns out they could've been average and we would've won that game by 2 scores. That poor play involved about 6 or 7 coaches and about 25 players. Let's not pile on our center!

beerlover
11-09-2009, 11:52 AM
Let's not pile on our center!

that's a funny pun, since thats what most teams do to Myers :heh:

Texan_Bill
11-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Dude, plain and simple; Myers sucks.

Dude, I would rep. you if I could!!!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 11:55 AM
LOL, I know Daniels isn't the best run blocker, the difference is that's not his #1 responsibility and he does so many other things well that I'm not going to complain......unlike your mancrush Myers.

The same thing, I don't complain about Myers (and I'm not calling him Pro-Bowl by a long shot).

He does something very well, and that is to block on the second level.

He's also very good at picking up LB blitzes as I have watched 34/41 games that he had started so far in his career.
(Therefore, even if he failed to pick up one of them, I don't mind at all; because I know he normally does that very well.)

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 12:00 PM
It was the contract that made the difference. By the way, if you use that same kind of logic, then you must really think Bernard Pollard sucks!

Look, I think 76Texan is a bit enamored with Myers. But, I like the fact that a fan appreciates anunheralded player on the offensive line. And, not because he's from UT. When you pay a guy $2 per year and get him for a 6th round pick, it's silly to expect him to dominate games. He has been, at the very least, servicable as this team's center. As fans, the last thing we should do when we play a game like we did yesterday, is try and focus all our frustrations on one player... Particularly when he wasn't playing with a lack of effort. The entire offense was ugly yesterday. On a day when I thought the offense and special teams' would have to play exceptionally for us to win, it turns out they could've been average and we would've won that game by 2 scores. That poor play involved about 6 or 7 coaches and about 25 players. Let's not pile on our center!

Teams don't let go of good young lineman.......FACT. And it's not like we gave him the key to the city. He was signed to a 4 year deal for a whopping 11 million dollar contract with only 3 guaranteed. :rolleyes:

Also it's not comparable to the Pollard situation. Pollard was a former 2nd round pick and the Chiefs completely turned over their coaching staff.....aparently that coaching staff didn't recognize his talent or felt his strengths didn't fit their scheme. The Broncos had the same coaching staff for years and felt Myers' talents didn't fit their scheme.........the same scheme we happen to run here.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 12:02 PM
The same thing, I don't complain about Myers (and I'm not calling him Pro-Bowl by a long shot).

He does something very well, and that is to block on the second level.

He's also very good at picking up LB blitzes as I have watched 34/41 games that he had started so far in his career.
(Therefore, even if he failed to pick up one of them, I don't mind at all; because I know he normally does that very well.)

LOL, it's not hard to find a offensive lineman who blocks well against LBs and Ss......if they couldn't even do that, they wouldn't be in the league. I want my center to be able to block and move the big boys when it matters, Myers consistently sucks at that.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 12:02 PM
It was the contract that made the difference. By the way, if you use that same kind of logic, then you must really think Bernard Pollard sucks!

Look, I think 76Texan is a bit enamored with Myers. But, I like the fact that a fan appreciates anunheralded player on the offensive line. And, not because he's from UT. When you pay a guy $2 per year and get him for a 6th round pick, it's silly to expect him to dominate games. He has been, at the very least, servicable as this team's center. As fans, the last thing we should do when we play a game like we did yesterday, is try and focus all our frustrations on one player... Particularly when he wasn't playing with a lack of effort. The entire offense was ugly yesterday. On a day when I thought the offense and special teams' would have to play exceptionally for us to win, it turns out they could've been average and we would've won that game by 2 scores. That poor play involved about 6 or 7 coaches and about 25 players. Let's not pile on our center!
That was funny!

But that's not why I want to rep ya', LOL!

HOU-TEX
11-09-2009, 12:02 PM
Dude, I would rep. you if I could!!!

Ha, you're like a one-man band.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 12:03 PM
Dude, I would rep. you if I could!!!

LOL, since you can't rep yourself, I'll hit you up.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 12:06 PM
LOL, it's not hard to find a offensive lineman who blocks well against LBs and Ss......if they couldn't even do that, they wouldn't be in the league. I want my center to be able to block and move the big boys when it matters, Myers consistently sucks at that.

Ya' think?

Watch Air Caldwell... I certainly hope he does better at that.
If he did, I would have called for him to replace Myers.
Maybe it will happen in the future, I don't know for sure, but there's a possibility.

And no, White, Studdard and Pitts don't do it as well as Myers.

Brisiel ain't bad; that was why he found a spot!

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 12:11 PM
Ya' think?

Watch Air Caldwell... I certainly hope he does better at that.
If he did, I would have called for him to replace Myers.
May be it will happen in the future, I don't know for sure, but there's a possibility.

And no, White, Studdard and Pitts don't do it as well as Myers.

Brisiel ain't bad; that was why he found a spot!

Speaking of Caldwell, did you see him absolutely maul the DT on Slaton's TD run? I'm very encouraged with what I've seen from him the past 3 games. He's inconsistent but I think the man can play! By the way, this isn't an endorsement for him to play center yet. My recollection of him at center during the preseason was that he was lost.

eriadoc
11-09-2009, 12:13 PM
76Texan:Myers as Hulk75:Carr.

FYI, blocking at the first level is job #1.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 12:17 PM
LOL, it's not hard to find a offensive lineman who blocks well against LBs and Ss......if they couldn't even do that, they wouldn't be in the league. I want my center to be able to block and move the big boys when it matters, Myers consistently sucks at that.
The opposite centers that we've played so far this year can't consistently move our smaller D-linemen, let alone the big boys!

On the Colts failed 3rd and one attempt, they had a double team and couldn't move Okoye.

On the Addai's TD run, they had a double team and couldn't move Zgonina!

That was why the Colts went to the passing game on 3rd and short often (and not just in this game).

76Texan
11-09-2009, 12:39 PM
76Texan:Myers as Hulk75:Carr.

FYI, blocking at the first level is job #1.
Thanks for the revelation.
I never knew that! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

76Texan
11-09-2009, 12:45 PM
Speaking of Caldwell, did you see him absolutely maul the DT on Slaton's TD run? I'm very encouraged with what I've seen from him the past 3 games. He's inconsistent but I think the man can play! By the way, this isn't an endorsement for him to play center yet. My recollection of him at center during the preseason was that he was lost.

I'm not quite sure about that.
Looks like Brock penetrated to the left (Caldwell's right).
Caldwell wasn't able to hold on to the block.
But we had good backside blocks by Studdard and Brown.
Myers cleared out the LB into the end zone.
I'd look at it again; let's go ahead and give Caldwell some credit there for the time being. As long as Brock was off to one side, that's all that matters!
(It was third and goal).

On first and goal, Myers pushed the DT into the endzone (got him to lose his balance and off on one foot).
Studdard was weak, Schaub wasn't able to sneak it in.

On second and goal, looks like Myers went in for the LB (but missed), and Caldwell got knocked off both feet by the DT.

GP
11-09-2009, 12:53 PM
Teams don't let go of good young lineman.......FACT. And it's not like we gave him the key to the city. He was signed to a 4 year deal for a whopping 11 million dollar contract with only 3 guaranteed. :rolleyes:

Also it's not comparable to the Pollard situation. Pollard was a former 2nd round pick and the Chiefs completely turned over their coaching staff.....aparently that coaching staff didn't recognize his talent or felt his strengths didn't fit their scheme. The Broncos had the same coaching staff for years and felt Myers' talents didn't fit their scheme.........the same scheme we happen to run here.

Myers had taken over for their starter who was injured, and then we come in and offer Myers the starting job after the year was over.

So I think the starting center in Denver was just barely coming back from the injury and they opted to let go of Myers.

Now we see why. He's a good backup, the type of guy who comes in and handles the duty well when all things are considered. Denver didn't want to stand in the way of him getting to be the true starter at the center position somewhere else, especially on Kubiak and Shanny Jr's team of all places.

It's like someone asking you for a pair of pliers that you have. You give it to your neighbor because you like your neighbor and he needs a set. And, you have a nicer 2nd set of pliers anyways. Everyone wins. Sort of.

If we had a gritty, Cushing-type player at center--the type of guy that the position was built for--this offense would probably stay on the field longer, even under really tense situations such as game-deciding drives, crucial 3rd down situations that drain the clock, red zone appearances, etc.

The defense, to me, has somehow managed to get its act together. Except the way we play cushions on WRs to start each game...then tighten up as the game goes on. I still don't understand that way of thinking. Oh well.

On offense, I like what we have across the board except for maybe one more RB who is bigger and a fiot for the ZBS. But there's a slim chance on this group of decision-makers going for a RB before Round 3 unless a gem is just waiting there for them somehow.

So that leaves the sore thumb. And I have to say, that after that mishandling of the blocking assignment--when lining it up with other "Doh!" moments that we've seen in red zone territory, or in crucial plays to extend drives and get that one yard, I'm afraid Myers might be that sore thumb.

Once again: No need to run him out of town, but I think we should start addressing that position in next year's draft. This is his second year here. If he'd like to stay and backup the new guy and split time with him, or move on and find another place to land as a starter, then great.

TimeKiller
11-09-2009, 02:02 PM
You know what? I finally got a recording of the game.

I don't pretend to know much about X's and O's but when I count good plays it'll be a lineman holding a block to spring a run or a pass and when I count bad plays homedudes will be whiffing or on their ass at the end of the play. I'm not going to try to bore anyone into submission with a long ass post either so ya'll can either take me for the helluva arm chair coach that I am or not. Hopefully I won't be accused of sleeping with any OL..............

76Texan
11-09-2009, 02:41 PM
The only guy who was responsible for this Interception was Matt Schaub.

When you are in the shotgun and you have more than 2 secs to throw the ball; especially with the pressure coming in front of you where you can see it the whole time, it's on you!

Unless you're watching the CFL or something! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

To sidestep the issue is ...
And on top of that, to claim that others are ignorant for not knowing things...
Ludicrous!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 03:16 PM
Come on, 76. Schaub wasn't even finished with his drop when Myers whiffed on the guy. Studdard had his guy handled for the most part. All Myers needed to do was a one haned check while keeping his position.

Too quick for anybody to pick up is bull butter. It would've easily been picked up if Myers did his job.So I have a couple of questions for you, Hou-Tex.

Did Schaub finish his drop or not?

Who was it that Studdard "was supposed" to be handling?

76Texan
11-09-2009, 03:25 PM
76Texan:Myers as Hulk75:Carr.

Unlike Hulk75, I have all the Texans' games that I can review.

If you want to bring up any instances of Myers' messing up, I will be happy to discuss them with ya'! :cool:

76Texan
11-09-2009, 03:29 PM
We got absolutely owned at the end of the game and this thread is more of a collection of his "lowlights" on the year.

All the goalline failures over the past 2 seasons.......he owns that.

All the times he gets his ass handed to him against playoff type Dlines......he owns that.

All the times our running game gets blown up inside........he owns that.

He simply isn't a starting caliber center on a playoff team. If we ever want to really push for a playoff spot, a divisional title, or ever want to really have a chance to contend, then he needs to be quality depth on the bench......not starting.

This is the #1 position that needs to be addressed this offseason, it should've been addressed last offseason (drafting a rookie in the 3rd round really isn't "addressing the situation")

If we really want to take the next step on the offensive side of the ball, he's got to go. The interior of the Oline is killing this team (it's already cost us the chance to win quite a few games the past couple of seasons) and he's the #1 problem on the interior of the Oline.
If you cannot prove that, I would say you don't know enough football and should refrain from discussing too many things that you cannot back up!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 03:32 PM
I think he would be an excellent backup. He is a little more exposed right now without Pitts next to him. I'm confident that this off-season they will address talent level on the interior oline and at RB.

Pitts doesn't give Myers much help.
We usually find Myers and Brisiel in combo!

gtexan02
11-09-2009, 03:38 PM
If you cannot prove that, I would say you don't know enough football and should refrain from discussing too many things that you cannot back up!

Can't argue with a guy thats watched every play this season and broken it down. I gotta go with 76 on this one. He has no reason to be biased

76Texan
11-09-2009, 03:38 PM
watching a play over and over trying to come up with excuses for the worst Center in the league doesn't make you an authority..it makes you something but its not an authority.

Myers sucks. End of story.

How many games does he have to cost us? We are up to 3 already. How many more does it take?

Myers would be a 3rd stringer on any other team except maybe a few he would be backup....which of course is what he was before he came here

Kubiak needs to get rid of this loser...now.
You don't bring any fact to the argument.

Until you do, I'm sorry I need to forget about your posts!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 03:42 PM
Can't argue with a guy thats watched every play this season and broken it down. I gotta go with 76 on this one. He has no reason to be biased

Thx for the support!

I just hate for people to shoot players down for invalid reason(s).

You can see that when Myers miss a block, I call it right away, no question asked. When mario whiffs, I would call it! When Demeco whiffs I would call it.
People don't have to tell me. I call it as I see it!

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 03:45 PM
If you cannot prove that, I would say you don't know enough football and should refrain from discussing too many things that you cannot back up!

Give me a break :rolleyes:

You don't know any more than anybody else. I DVR every game and I usually watch every game a couple of times, I just don't feel like coming in here and making long posts breaking down every single thing. I also don't even bother reading the posts of people that do that, because I watch the games...I see what's going on for myself, and I form my own opinion. You aren't the know all see all, go to guy of Texans' football. Stop acting like you know more than everybody else, especially when everybody else can clearly see that Myers is outmatched on the field

but but but.......you watch tape, frankly I'd be embarrassed to tell people that and then come in here with the opinion that Myers is the most effective player on the line...it gives people the opinion that you don't know what you're talking about.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 04:34 PM
Give me a break :rolleyes:

You don't know any more than anybody else. I DVR every game and I usually watch every game a couple of times, I just don't feel like coming in here and making long posts breaking down every single thing. I also don't even bother reading the posts of people that do that, because I watch the games...I see what's going on for myself, and I form my own opinion. You aren't the know all see all, go to guy of Texans' football. Stop acting like you know more than everybody else, especially when everybody else can clearly see that Myers is outmatched on the field

but but but.......you watch tape, frankly I'd be embarrassed to tell people that and then come in here with the opinion that Myers is the most effective player on the line...it gives people the opinion that you don't know what you're talking about.Bring the goods!

Everybody already knows your "opinions"!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 04:37 PM
Give me a break :rolleyes:

You don't know any more than anybody else. I DVR every game and I usually watch every game a couple of times, I just don't feel like coming in here and making long posts breaking down every single thing. I also don't even bother reading the posts of people that do that, because I watch the games...I see what's going on for myself, and I form my own opinion. You aren't the know all see all, go to guy of Texans' football. Stop acting like you know more than everybody else, especially when everybody else can clearly see that Myers is outmatched on the field

but but but.......you watch tape, frankly I'd be embarrassed to tell people that and then come in here with the opinion that Myers is the most effective player on the line...it gives people the opinion that you don't know what you're talking about.
The best you can do so far is to try to shoot me down!

You should be embarassed for not being able to bring facts to an argument...
and keep on doing it... over and over again.... even as I challenge you to bring the facts!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 04:53 PM
Give me a break :rolleyes:

You don't know any more than anybody else. I DVR every game and I usually watch every game a couple of times, I just don't feel like coming in here and making long posts breaking down every single thing. I also don't even bother reading the posts of people that do that, because I watch the games...I see what's going on for myself, and I form my own opinion. You aren't the know all see all, go to guy of Texans' football. Stop acting like you know more than everybody else, especially when everybody else can clearly see that Myers is outmatched on the field

but but but.......you watch tape, frankly I'd be embarrassed to tell people that and then come in here with the opinion that Myers is the most effective player on the line...it gives people the opinion that you don't know what you're talking about.And why was it that I keep on putting a connotation to disclaim that I am not a know-it-all?

Because I understand that people can have different opinions, and I respect them as I would like for them to respect mine!

So don't be overzealous (different meaning from over jealous) to think that one person (whether it's you or I) knows it all.

Being humble is one thing, being arrogant is another!
It's funny to me that the arrogant guy wants to question my humility!
Good comedian! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

Second Honeymoon
11-09-2009, 05:07 PM
You don't bring any fact to the argument.

Until you do, I'm sorry I need to forget about your posts!

why don't you go watch the game again and again....

..it still won't matter. your still gonna write a love note to Myers.

Myers gets blown up, thrown around like a ragdoll, falls down, whiffs on blocks, and is beaten...

..yet you will try and find some explanation for why Myers didn't go a certain way and base its validity on the fact that you watched a game over and over.

i don't have to watch a game over and over to know if a player sucks. sorry, i guess thats just me. it make take longer for other people...so keep watching those replays and maybe one day you will get it.

...for some reason, i doubt it.

76Texan
11-09-2009, 05:11 PM
why don't you go watch the game again and again....

..it still won't matter. your still gonna write a love note to Myers.

Myers gets blown up, thrown around like a ragdoll, falls down, whiffs on blocks, and is beaten...

..yet you will try and find some explanation for why Myers didn't go a certain way and base its validity on the fact that you watched a game over and over.

i don't have to watch a game over and over to know if a player sucks. sorry, i guess thats just me. it make take longer for other people...so keep watching those replays and maybe one day you will get it.

...for some reason, i doubt it.
Bring up specific examples and I will be happy to discuss them with ya'

76Texan
11-09-2009, 05:12 PM
why don't you go watch the game again and again....

..it still won't matter. your still gonna write a love note to Myers.

Myers gets blown up, thrown around like a ragdoll, falls down, whiffs on blocks, and is beaten...

..yet you will try and find some explanation for why Myers didn't go a certain way and base its validity on the fact that you watched a game over and over.

i don't have to watch a game over and over to know if a player sucks. sorry, i guess thats just me. it make take longer for other people...so keep watching those replays and maybe one day you will get it.

...for some reason, i doubt it.What's your beef with this specific play, for example!

76Texan
11-09-2009, 05:17 PM
why don't you go watch the game again and again....

..it still won't matter. your still gonna write a love note to Myers.

Myers gets blown up, thrown around like a ragdoll, falls down, whiffs on blocks, and is beaten...

..yet you will try and find some explanation for why Myers didn't go a certain way and base its validity on the fact that you watched a game over and over.

i don't have to watch a game over and over to know if a player sucks. sorry, i guess thats just me. it make take longer for other people...so keep watching those replays and maybe one day you will get it.

...for some reason, i doubt it.What I know is that you have to eat your words before!

What I know is the play I watched, people may have different interpretations, I have a point.

As soon as I see that mine is not valid (after discussion and such) I always come back and say that I was wrong, or something of that nature.
I'm always learning and open to discussions.

If you guys are not, then forget-about-it!

dalemurphy
11-09-2009, 05:17 PM
After re-watching the game, Myers did struggle on some plays but he also did some good things. Regarding the play we've been discussing, it sounds like Kubiak blames the RB for that one. So, 76 Texan may be right that we're asking too much of him to pass off the NT and get back to that LB.

I thought Chris White looked really bad. Everyone else I thought played well sometimes but made some mistakes. Of course, playing a front 7 that is so athletic and fast with all the crowd noise is a pretty tough spot for the linemen. I'd still argue that the playcalling was really poor, particularly in the first half.

ArlingtonTexan
11-09-2009, 05:18 PM
Myers is an efficient blocker. he has two key problems:

1) He rarely blows anyone off the ball.
2) When he gets beat (which is not as often as it seems), he gets blown up. These defeats also seem to come at what we think are key times.

TEXANS84
11-09-2009, 05:53 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii219/losloseeboy/jetex.gif

thunderkyss
11-09-2009, 07:41 PM
Drafting a top shelf RB is just going to be a waste of a 1st round pick with this line. The problem starts upfront.....even Ryan Moats (who everybody praises) struggled to run the ball............"but but but, he beasted on the worst run defense in the NFL" :rolleyes: (2.4 ypc today....on a Colts team that isn't known for being a juggernaut against the run). Replace backs.....same result.


Watching this oline reminds me of this...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ug75diEyiA0

Size and strength wins in the trenches.......we lack both in the middle of the line.

I'd rather spend a 1st round pick on a center (regardless if the guy has a 2nd round grade or not) than spend a 1st round pick on a RB who is just going to be doing the same thing that the backs we have now are doing......which is dodging defenders and running into the backs of their offensive lineman that are getting man handled up front.

3 more games.

Not Tennessee.... not Indy.. But watch how we run the ball from the Jacksonville game on.

You & the other Chris Myers haters probably still won't appreciate our running game, but just like our defense has improved, our OL will be pro-quality by the time we play Jacksonville.

With the week off, we might show up good in Tennessee, but I just want to give myself a little cushion.

We will rush for well over 100 yards/game from week 13 through the end of the season.

Our running game sucked early this season, because we didn't run a pure ZBS last year, and we found ways to make what we had work..... at least that's what I saw. This year, it's pure ZBS.

Then we lost Pitts...... then we lost Brisiel.. you would have to be an ***** to replace Myers right now, unless forced by injuries, because we are still teaching 2/5ths of this line how to run the system... not to mention the running backs.

After watching this game again, it's no different than our other games. Myers made some mistakes... but not near as many as Winston, Studdard or our Tightends in either the running game, or the passing game. But for some reason you all give Winston a pass.

OD going out for the season is another hit to our run game.

I'm seeing improvement from everyone on the OL, excluding Myers, but Myers right now is still playing better than everyone else, except arguably Duane Brown.

I can see White or Caldwell eventually replacing Myers.... but if I were the Texans.... before I did that, I'd find someone more like Myers, someone smaller, quicker, because I don't think those big guys will ever get to the second level like Myers does. He has way more range. & from what I see.... the center in this system is almost like a tightend. He can get out ahead of the line and clear out the second level. The Guards & the Tackles form a wall the RB reads.... & finds holes, then exploit. The Center & play side tight end attack the second level, the backside tightend... or sometimes Walter seal the backside. There are a hundred variations...... but this is basically what I'm seeing us trying to do.

Kind of the way the Colts do it.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 07:42 PM
The best you can do so far is to try to shoot me down!

You should be embarassed for not being able to bring facts to an argument...
and keep on doing it... over and over again.... even as I challenge you to bring the facts!

Umm......what "facts" are you bringing to the conversation? "your observations" are nothing but opinion also. (a wrong opinion :), but still a opinion)

thunderkyss
11-09-2009, 08:06 PM
I'm sure that if you asked Chris Myers, he would say he has got to come off that first block and pickup the LB. And, if you asked Schaub, he would say he's got to get rid of the ball and protect it better on that play..


I would bet you are 100% correct. But, IMHO if anyone is using this play as the epitome of Chris Myers' suckitude, he doesn't have much of an argument.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 08:11 PM
I would bet you are 100% correct. But, IMHO if anyone is using this play as the epitome of Chris Myers' suckitude, he doesn't have much of an argument.

LOL, I've been bitching about Myers long before yesterday's game.......this goes back to last season.

But I forgot.....he blows up LBs and Safeties. :rolleyes: Gee I would hope so, they are about the only players on the field that he has size on.

thunderkyss
11-09-2009, 08:11 PM
Give me a break :rolleyes:

You don't know any more than anybody else. I DVR every game and I usually watch every game a couple of times, I just don't feel like coming in here and making long posts breaking down every single thing. I also don't even bother reading the posts of people that do that, because I watch the games...I see what's going on for myself, and I form my own opinion. You aren't the know all see all, go to guy of Texans' football. Stop acting like you know more than everybody else, especially when everybody else can clearly see that Myers is outmatched on the field

but but but.......you watch tape, frankly I'd be embarrassed to tell people that and then come in here with the opinion that Myers is the most effective player on the line...it gives people the opinion that you don't know what you're talking about.

But you've got to wonder... if Myers is as bad as you say he is, why is he still starting, & why has Kubiak called out every OL that has started for us this year, with the exception of Myers & Brown?

Surely you've got to question what he's seeing.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 08:21 PM
But you've got to wonder... if Myers is as bad as you say he is, why is he still starting, & why has Kubiak called out every OL that has started for us this year, with the exception of Myers & Brown?

Surely you've got to question what he's seeing.

Again......

Glenn Earl started here for THREE SEASONS.....I guess he was a all-pro too huh? I still don't know why y'all keep bringing up his "starting status". Teams have crappy starters, it speaks more to the lack of depth at the position.

And I haven't really seen Kubiak calling anybody on the line out, but if he did and didn't call out Myers......you can't really trash a guy for something he's not able to do. I mean it's not like Myers doesn't try, he tries, he probably works his ass off and is technically sound, but he just isn't that strong. No amount of "calling him out" is going to give him physical strength. It would be like "calling out" Ron Dayne for not being able to run a 4.4 40.

The fact that the team felt the need to draft a center in the third round this past draft tells me more than i need to know on how they feel about the situation there.

thunderkyss
11-09-2009, 08:35 PM
LOL, I've been bitching about Myers long before yesterday's game.......this goes back to last season.

But I forgot.....he blows up LBs and Safeties. :rolleyes: Gee I would hope so, they are about the only players on the field that he has size on.

& that is by design. Which may not be correct according to whatever football college you graduated from. But the guy building this line specifically selected Myers for this role, & so far he is happy with him.

Instead of trying to make Myers fit into your preconcieved notion of what an NFL center is supposed to be... try to figure out what Kubiak wants that center to be, & measure him against that.

Myers will never be Andre Gurrard, or who ever you think is the hallmark of an NFL Center..... get over it.

If/when Kubiak decides it's time for a change at Center, I would bet money that person would physically be closer to Myers than you would like.

TimeKiller
11-09-2009, 08:46 PM
I just started another OL thread, sorry. But if you guys would check it out I'd appreciate (or possibly if the thread can just be tacked on to the end of this one? Mods?)

I don't think anyone would describe it as unfair or biased. Some of the results go against my own thoughts about the OL but it just goes to show that "in-depth analysis" is always a better measuring stick than a once-over.

Carr Bombed
11-09-2009, 09:20 PM
& that is by design. Which may not be correct according to whatever football college you graduated from. But the guy building this line specifically selected Myers for this role, & so far he is happy with him.

LMAO.... Seriously.

This IS A MESSAGE BOARD, WE POST THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS ON HERE.

"get over it" and "whatever football college you graduated from" :rolleyes: Sorry I don't agree with your opinion that Myers is the bee's knees....try to "get over" that.

Instead of trying to make Myers fit into your preconcieved notion of what an NFL center is supposed to be... try to figure out what Kubiak wants that center to be, & measure him against that.

Myers will never be Andre Gurrard, or who ever you think is the hallmark of an NFL Center..... get over it.

If/when Kubiak decides it's time for a change at Center, I would bet money that person would physically be closer to Myers than you would like.

Hmm apparently there's miscommunication here...

LOL, you think my only issue is with Myers...

This team needs to rebuild the middle of the line if they want to become a good running team and frankly, I'd rather scratch the entire ZBS altogether....it's out dated as hell. (I mean think about it.....Gibbs NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH THE RUNNING GAME, regardless of where he coached...and now he can't run it here :rolleyes:)

You can't just line up a whole bunch of undersized lineman, because they're quicker on their feet (which ours aren't even that) in a leauge today where athlete's like Haloti Ngata are still quicker than your undersized wimpy lineman, but they're also able to toss them around like sand bags. Today's game is a league of athletic freaks.......for christ's sake, just look at Mario. So a system that requires a bunch of weak quick lineman is just going to be out muscled without gaining much in the quickness department. I'd rather get some brawlers in there who can punch back, maull back and PUSH BACK.

THAT'S THE POINT... Even if Myers is replaced, I don't want them to just replace him with another Myers. I'm not a fan of the ZBS. It's finesse as hell and when you need TOUGH "MAN" YARDS, it fails way too often. I'd rather have a power running game, where if you need 1 yard......you can get the damn yard.

thunderkyss
11-10-2009, 08:02 AM
LMAO.... Seriously.

This IS A MESSAGE BOARD, WE POST THOUGHTS AND OPINIONS ON HERE.

"get over it" and "whatever football college you graduated from" :rolleyes: Sorry I don't agree with your opinion that Myers is the bee's knees....try to "get over" that.

I understand that may have come off a bit drier than what I intended. But I'm starting to understand you are grading Myers by a standard other than what he should be.

Like grading a blocking tight-end against a receiving tight-end. Depending on what you are looking for, one is obviously going to grade poorly.

I'm just saying it isn't fair to criticize Myers for not being the Bull-Center you want him to be.




Hmm apparently there's miscommunication here...

Yes

LOL, you think my only issue is with Myers...

THAT'S THE POINT... Even if Myers is replaced, I don't want them to just replace him with another Myers. I'm not a fan of the ZBS. It's finesse as hell and when you need TOUGH "MAN" YARDS, it fails way too often. I'd rather have a power running game, where if you need 1 yard......you can get the damn yard.

& that's a totally different point all together. A valid point, a valid argument, but saying Chris Myers suck IMHO doesn't help your argument.

Chris Myers does not suck.

Your argument, is more of a using the wrong tool for the job. I get that my opinion doesn't mean much to you, but saying "Chris Myers is not the kind of Center we need" is a much better argument than a "Chris Myers sucks" argument.

Because he doesn't "suck"

dalemurphy
11-10-2009, 08:10 AM
Again......

Glenn Earl started here for THREE SEASONS.....I guess he was a all-pro too huh? I still don't know why y'all keep bringing up his "starting status". Teams have crappy starters, it speaks more to the lack of depth at the position.

And I haven't really seen Kubiak calling anybody on the line out, but if he did and didn't call out Myers......you can't really trash a guy for something he's not able to do. I mean it's not like Myers doesn't try, he tries, he probably works his ass off and is technically sound, but he just isn't that strong. No amount of "calling him out" is going to give him physical strength. It would be like "calling out" Ron Dayne for not being able to run a 4.4 40.

The fact that the team felt the need to draft a center in the third round this past draft tells me more than i need to know on how they feel about the situation there.


There are other factors, particularly when talking about a center, that are very important for an offense. He makes most of the calls and adjustments at the line for blitz pickup, etc... So, just like he is at fault when Kris Jenkins tossing him like a rag doll, he also deserves much of the credit for the fact that Schaub is dropping back to throw 35+ times per game and only getting sacked 2X.

If you want to see really poor center/Ol play, you can watch the Green Bay Packers. I'm looking forward to this off-season because we need some offensive talent upgrade. We have 8 draftpicks and very few defensive or skill position needs. He'll have plenty of competition next year, I think.

GP
11-10-2009, 08:16 AM
& that's a totally different point all together. A valid point, a valid argument, but saying Chris Myers suck IMHO doesn't help your argument.

Chris Myers does not suck.

Your argument, is more of a using the wrong tool for the job. I get that my opinion doesn't mean much to you, but saying "Chris Myers is not the kind of Center we need" is a much better argument than a "Chris Myers sucks" argument.

Because he doesn't "suck"

Maybe, and I'm just observing here, it's a deal of CarrBombed saying "He sucks" and he means "He sucks...in terms of what we need."

I agree that terminology can be a sticking point. Obviously, Myers does not completely suck. He made it, he's still in the NFL, and he's probably going to continue to play somewhere and draw paychecks--Which we won't.

But he's not what we need. A center can make or break your team, because a center (traditionally) calls out to the rest of the line what the defense might be doing, and he and the quarterback are like their own little team.

If anybody questions this, read the article on Jeff Saturday and Peyton Manning in ESPNmagazine a few issues back. The center should be a little more integral than hiking the ball and sticking an arm out. Now, maybe Myers IS a more integral and influential center than what I am aware of.

But this year and last year, I just do not get the feeling that Myers is capable of playing the center position to the degree that he's got that spot nailed down 24/7. Especially on crucial plays, such as: Red zone territory, 3rd and 2 when we need to keep the chains and the clock moving, or to sustain a comeback drive and he gets plastered and Schaub has to throw the ball too early or off-balance, etc.

Great guy. But probably a 1A type of center at best, or a B type of center if we're being more honest about it.

Look, we can continue to squeak by with him. Obviously, that's what we've been doing. But Owen Daniels was being used as a safety valve for Schaub, and there's no longer that option this year. Owen Daniels, IMO, masked a lot of problems that exist in the middle of that OL. OD's strength was the catches he made off of Schaub's 3-step drop, which was a hot read when the blitz was on. If we have OD on that Schaub pick where Myers missed the LB, we might stand a chance.

To me, it's time to go out and grab that ugly old center that can't score touchdowns or intercept passes or make big tackles. He just locks down the middle of the line, and he isn't going to get shoved around on crucial plays.

Second Honeymoon
11-10-2009, 01:39 PM
Chris Myers sucks...that is all.

dalemurphy
11-10-2009, 02:07 PM
Chris Myers sucks...that is all.

Chris Myers sucks...that is all.
__________________
BRIAN CUSHING IS PRETTY GOOD

I think I get SH's grading scale now!
I agree that if Cushing is "pretty good" then Myers would "suck on that scale. There, now we can all agree. Kumbiaya.

devo-x
11-10-2009, 02:56 PM
Do the Texans have any backups for Chris Myers at Center to provide some competition? :thinking:

I have read some good arguments on this thread so far (pro and con)

badboy
11-10-2009, 03:15 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii219/losloseeboy/jetex.gifAfter watching the play 50 times it is my opinion that Myers and Slaton were smart enough not to get in the way of that freight train. Stupid old Schaub should have ducked and rolled.:worldpeace:

Carr Bombed
11-10-2009, 03:24 PM
After watching the play 50 times it is my opinion that Myers and Slaton were smart enough not to get in the way of that freight train. Stupid old Schaub should have ducked and rolled.:worldpeace:

You know, watching that clip.... One of the biggest reasons why Schaub has been able to stay healthy this year is because Albert Haynesworth is no longer in the division. If that was Haynesworth (who I have no doubt can own Myers like that) would've done his patent "350lb belly flop" body slam onto Schaub. Schaub is very lucky that Kris Jenkins is a respectable player and pealed off at the last second....because he had every right to really put it on Schaub there.

Those are the type of Dlineman this team is going to face in the playoffs (whenever they get there)......so I'd rather have a offensive line that can hold their own and handle them.

GP
11-10-2009, 03:39 PM
Kris Jenkins is stupid huge. Gigantical huge.

SteveDeberg
11-10-2009, 03:41 PM
[QUOTE=devo-x;1297988]Do the Texans have any backups for Chris Myers at Center to provide some competition? :thinking:

Anoine Caldwell

Carr Bombed
11-10-2009, 03:43 PM
Kris Jenkins is stupid huge. Gigantical huge.

Cartoonishly huge. :)

http://www.alexross.com/FF1040-Palooka-Pitch.jpg

Almost like Bugs Bunny striking out all those huge sluggers back in the day....except Myers is the one who "whiffed" here.

SteveDeberg
11-10-2009, 03:47 PM
LOL, maybe the Astros can use them.

Texan_Bill
11-10-2009, 04:04 PM
http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii219/losloseeboy/jetex.gif

Thatís just embarrassing.

I'm not saying that O-linemen don't get beat, but holy cow that's B-A-D bad!!!

GP
11-10-2009, 04:49 PM
That was excellent technique displayed by Myers.

I think it's called the "Stop, drop, and roll" :roast:

My kid talks about it all the time, and they teach them at school how to do that.

SteveDeberg
11-10-2009, 05:07 PM
Thatís just embarrassing.

I'm not saying that O-linemen don't get beat, but holy cow that's B-A-D bad!!!

RE: FT Hood, my wife is a Platoon Sgt/SFC in the USAR and spends alot of time there. Thankfully she was not there when this happened. Are you or were you in the Army?

Texan_Bill
11-10-2009, 05:14 PM
RE: FT Hood, my wife is a Platoon Sgt/SFC in the USAR and spends alot of time there. Thankfully she was not there when this happened. Are you or were you in the Army?

I'm not sure if you meant to post here in this thread about our O-line, but yes I was in the Army. I spent my entire time overseas, but Fort Hood was our sister post (2nd A.D. and 41st Infantry Regiment). After I got out, my battalion rotated back to Fort Hood so I would go visit some of buddies up there.

Anywho, yes let's thank God your wife was not there at the time. :whew

HOU-TEX
11-11-2009, 10:21 AM
Cartoonishly huge. :)

http://www.alexross.com/FF1040-Palooka-Pitch.jpg

Almost like Bugs Bunny striking out all those huge sluggers back in the day....except Myers is the one who "whiffed" here.

Uh, I think that guy's bat handle would break. :mcnugget:

76Texan
11-11-2009, 12:54 PM
After re-watching the game, Myers did struggle on some plays but he also did some good things. Regarding the play we've been discussing, it sounds like Kubiak blames the RB for that one. So, 76 Texan may be right that we're asking too much of him to pass off the NT and get back to that LB.

I thought Chris White looked really bad. Everyone else I thought played well sometimes but made some mistakes. Of course, playing a front 7 that is so athletic and fast with all the crowd noise is a pretty tough spot for the linemen. I'd still argue that the playcalling was really poor, particularly in the first half.This is the fact that I brought to this particular play.

You and I had some good discussions since last year, and we learn to see the other person's point of view instead of relying on ad hominem arguments.

We don't attack each other even as we asked the other to check a few certain plays again to see what the other person was trying to say.

For example, I tried to recheck the Vikings PS game when a few posters insisted that Antonio Smith did get a piece of the ball on Favre.
After I found the correct angle that proved the case, I came back and issued an apology to Mr. Smith right away.
Just as you just agreed with me here.
Neither one of us is too stubborn to think that we know it all.

76Texan
11-11-2009, 01:08 PM
& that is by design. Which may not be correct according to whatever football college you graduated from. But the guy building this line specifically selected Myers for this role, & so far he is happy with him.

Instead of trying to make Myers fit into your preconcieved notion of what an NFL center is supposed to be... try to figure out what Kubiak wants that center to be, & measure him against that.

Myers will never be Andre Gurrard, or who ever you think is the hallmark of an NFL Center..... get over it.

If/when Kubiak decides it's time for a change at Center, I would bet money that person would physically be closer to Myers than you would like.

Along this line that I agree with.
If we want to grade our O-line (including our Center), the better way is to compare with other teams who run the ZBS.

Let's say the Packers when we played them past year, or the Bengals and the Niners when we played them this year.

Or check the running or passing plays that other teams (including the Colts) run out of the ZBS.

When you do that, the assertion that Myers is the worst center in the league does not hold any water. Not only it does not have any beef, it's completely wrong! Myers grades out very well among those centers both last year and this year. He is in the top half.

Even if you grade the efficiency of all the Centers in the league, Myers is in the top half last year and this year as well.

dalemurphy
11-11-2009, 01:27 PM
Along this line that I agree with.
If we want to grade our O-line (including our Center), the better way is to compare with other teams who run the ZBS.

Let's say the Packers when we played them past year, or the Bengals and the Niners when we played them this year.

Or check the running or passing plays that other teams (including the Colts) run out of the ZBS.

When you do that, the assertion that Myers is the worst center in the league does not hold any water. Not only it does not have any beef, it's completely wrong! Myers grades out very well among those centers both last year and this year. He is in the top half.

Even if you grade the efficiency of all the Centers in the league, Myers is in the top half last year and this year as well.

76Texan,

What do you think of Chris White? Kubiak said that he is grading out higher than Caldwell and I just don't see that. Perhaps I'm more impacted by a dominating play, which Caldwell definitely has more of, but I'm not respecting a guy just getting the job done... I don't know. Of course, I was absolutely convinced that Studdard was a total bum, even when Kubiak continued to praise him... Clearly, I was wrong there!

So, since you break down individual plays to a greater degree and seem a little more in tune with interior OLine play, I was wondering what you think about White v. Caldwell?

76Texan
11-11-2009, 01:50 PM
76Texan,

What do you think of Chris White? Kubiak said that he is grading out higher than Caldwell and I just don't see that. Perhaps I'm more impacted by a dominating play, which Caldwell definitely has more of, but I'm not respecting a guy just getting the job done... I don't know. Of course, I was absolutely convinced that Studdard was a total bum, even when Kubiak continued to praise him... Clearly, I was wrong there!

So, since you break down individual plays to a greater degree and seem a little more in tune with interior OLine play, I was wondering what you think about White v. Caldwell?
I don't see a whole lot to differentiate between those two.
In the long term, that bode well for Caldwell.
White is more consistent at the moment; and to me, in the ZBS, it's better to be consistent.
Even if an O-lineman lose a battle (as long as it's not devastating), the RB can still have a chance to make positive yardage.

Caldwell has done better in space as well, which is also a good sign.
For a rookie, I think Caldwell's progress is on par for a third round pick.
Which means he's more likely to surpass White than not.

I just wish that Caldwell has a little more agility, then I would pencil him in as a long-term starter for the team.

76Texan
11-11-2009, 01:56 PM
I don't see a whole lot to differentiate between those two.
In the long term, that bode well for Caldwell.
White is more consitent at the moment; and to me, in the ZBS, it's better to be consistent.
Even if an O-lineman lose a battle (as long as it's not devastating), the RB can still have a chance to make positive yardage.

Caldwell has done better in space as well, which is also a good sign.
For a rookie, I think Caldwell's progress is on par for a third round pick.
Which means he's more likely to surpass White than not.

I just wish that Caldwell has a little more agility, then I would pencil him in as a long-term starter for the team.
If Caldwell is as agile as Brisiel, I would say done deal, that we don't have to worry about the guard spot for a long time to come.

You got some, you lose some, can't win them all I guess!
I won't rule out the possibility that they can move Caldwell to Center next year and Myers to Guard.

I've seen the Broncos use Myers at Guard and Nalen at Center.
They would run some different plays than we do.
Myers was out in space more than Nalen.
(It makes senses to me).