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View Full Version : Kubiak does not commit to starting Slaton Sunday.


Astew10112
11-04-2009, 05:39 PM
ESPN NFL: Texans coach does not commit to starting RB for Sunday. Steve Slaton, Ryan Moats and Chris Brown will all play.

Just received this text from ESPN.

Thoughts?

Texecutioner
11-04-2009, 05:43 PM
Nor should he. A this point Moats has proven that he can play pretty big himself and he hasn't fumbled a whole lot. I still think that Slaton will get a lot of carries and he should as well. I've got no problem with seeing a committee with Slaton and Moats for the rest of the season as long as Moats can still keep playing at a high level.

The only thing I don't like is that fact that Chris Brown is still somehow in this picture. I'd rather sign Edge for nothing than to keep Chris Brown on this roster. Chris Brown just needs to go.

Double Barrel
11-04-2009, 05:46 PM
I think he should start Moats and go with platooning the RBs. Give Moats the benefit of a stellar game and send a signal to Slaton. But I'm fine with whatever Kubiak chooses, because it's what he thinks will be best for the team to win this game.

Texan_Bill
11-04-2009, 05:49 PM
Probably wants to see all 3 Thursday and Friday.

disaacks3
11-04-2009, 05:55 PM
I think he should start Moats and go with platooning the RBs. Give Moats the benefit of a stellar game and send a signal to Slaton. But I'm fine with whatever Kubiak chooses, because it's what he thinks will be best for the team to win this game. Sounds like a plan. I'd like to see Moats in the backfield and Slaton split wide and see how the Colts D reacts to the formation. If you don't cover Slaton & he gets the ball in open space = huge gains or TD.

hot pickle
11-04-2009, 05:57 PM
Sounds like a plan. I'd like to see Moats in the backfield and Slaton split wide and see how the Colts D reacts to the formation. If you don't cover Slaton & he gets the ball in open space = huge gains or TD.

correction

If you don't cover Slaton & he gets the ball in open space = fumble lol

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-04-2009, 05:58 PM
Slaton and Moats should be splitting carries 50/50. Chris Brown should be handing out gatorade.

thunderkyss
11-04-2009, 05:59 PM
Kubiak needs to get the idea of "Starter" out of the minds of the RBs. If I were Kubiak, I'd come out & say so publicly, then announce Chris Brown as our Starter for Sunday's game.

through the first 15 or 20 snaps, he should have an idea of who will get which carries & when. From there, who ever is hot gets the carries.

Kaiser Toro
11-04-2009, 06:00 PM
Sounds like a plan. I'd like to see Moats in the backfield and Slaton split wide and see how the Colts D reacts to the formation. If you don't cover Slaton & he gets the ball in open space = huge gains or TD.

Yep, the story should be how does Shanahan get both Moats and Slaton more touches. Slaton has fumbilitis, but he is a weapon that a playoff contending team needs to have on the field.

eriadoc
11-04-2009, 07:05 PM
I don't want to see Slaton touch the ball on the Texans side of the field. Therefore, no start.

ObsiWan
11-04-2009, 07:51 PM
ESPN NFL: Texans coach does not commit to starting RB for Sunday. Steve Slaton, Ryan Moats and Chris Brown will all play.

Just received this text from ESPN.

Thoughts?

Yeah.
Tell ESPN to mind their own damned business. They dissed and ignored us for years. Screw 'em.
:foottap:

DexmanC
11-04-2009, 08:24 PM
If you don't cover Slaton & he gets the ball in open space = fumble lol

I don't want to see Slaton touch the ball on the Texans side of the field. Therefore, no start.



All this "bury Slaton at the bottom of the depth chart" talk sounds an
awful lot like the anti-Jacoby threads last year. Guess what..
The coaches didn't give up on Jacoby, and he's a borderline
superstar. They're not gonna give up on Slaton, either. No matter
what knee-jerk fans say.

Hell. Add Amobi Okoye's name to the sophomore slump list.
All three of those cats sucked ass during their second years.
It seems to be more than a coincidence. Support those guys.

swtbound07
11-04-2009, 08:28 PM
people are going to be stunned with how outstandingly mediocre ryan moats is when he isn't playing the crappiest run defense in the nfl. I'm already looking forward to the end of all of this 50/50 split crap.

GP
11-04-2009, 08:29 PM
Slaton and Moats should be splitting carries 50/50. Chris Brown should be handing out gatorade.

LOL.

Word.

Sal Rosenberg
11-04-2009, 08:31 PM
Where is the Danye train?

cj5776
11-04-2009, 08:32 PM
IMHO, Slaton will be a lot more relaxed if he came off the bench. Give him a few screen passes to warm him up. Plus Moats has earned a least one start. Lets see what he can do. Lets use Salton as a weapon off the bench until his confidence comes back.

GP
11-04-2009, 08:32 PM
people are going to be stunned with how outstandingly mediocre ryan moats is when he isn't playing the crappiest run defense in the nfl. I'm already looking forward to the end of all of this 50/50 split crap.

Dude, it doesn't matter. Whatever/whoever gets the job done. That's my take.

Plus, Ryan Moats is good. When Steve was lolly-gaggin' around at the first of this season, trying to get back into the groove of running the ball, Moats was out there getting yards for us.

Slaton has shown a trend for going through peaks and valleys with the fumbling. In college, he dropped the ball a lot. Last year, he went a long streak before dropping the ball. Now, he's going through a long streak of dropping the ball.

I don't know when he's going to snap out of it. But we're 5-3, facing the Colts, and we better not have ANYBODY put the ball on the ground. Period.

swtbound07
11-04-2009, 08:37 PM
Dude, it doesn't matter. Whatever/whoever gets the job done. That's my take.

Plus, Ryan Moats is good. When Steve was lolly-gaggin' around at the first of this season, trying to get back into the groove of running the ball, Moats was out there getting yards for us.

Slaton has shown a trend for going through peaks and valleys with the fumbling. In college, he dropped the ball a lot. Last year, he went a long streak before dropping the ball. Now, he's going through a long streak of dropping the ball.

I don't know when he's going to snap out of it. But we're 5-3, facing the Colts, and we better not have ANYBODY put the ball on the ground. Period.

He hasn't fumbled yet. I'll grant you that. I'm not willing to grant that he is good or even on par with Steve after 38 carries. Its a tiny sample size. And there is no denying that you can't have a better team to run against then buffalo.

JDizzle
11-04-2009, 08:50 PM
Slaton"s work load will be reduced, like it or not.

eriadoc
11-04-2009, 08:59 PM
All this "bury Slaton at the bottom of the depth chart" talk sounds an awful lot like the anti-Jacoby threads last year.

I said nothing about burying him at the bottom of the chart. I said I don't want to see him touch the ball on the Texans side of the field. He's demonstrated that he can't be trusted to hold on to the ball. I agree he needs more opportunities, but those opps need to be in lower risk situations.

people are going to be stunned with how outstandingly mediocre ryan moats is when he isn't playing the crappiest run defense in the nfl. I'm already looking forward to the end of all of this 50/50 split crap.

I don't disagree with that. Moats is just Moats, nothing special. Anyone can have a good game. However, he does something that Slaton hasn't done at all this year, and that's hit the holes fast and hard. Notice how much better the OL looks when Slaton is in there? That's not because they dislike Slaton. Add in the fumble problem, and I'm off the wagon. I'll take a steady 3 yards a pop and no fumbles over Slaton's inconsistent gains and turnovers - at least until Slaton works out the fumble problem.

swtbound07
11-04-2009, 09:32 PM
I said nothing about burying him at the bottom of the chart. I said I don't want to see him touch the ball on the Texans side of the field. He's demonstrated that he can't be trusted to hold on to the ball. I agree he needs more opportunities, but those opps need to be in lower risk situations.



I don't disagree with that. Moats is just Moats, nothing special. Anyone can have a good game. However, he does something that Slaton hasn't done at all this year, and that's hit the holes fast and hard. Notice how much better the OL looks when Slaton is in there? That's not because they dislike Slaton. Add in the fumble problem, and I'm off the wagon. I'll take a steady 3 yards a pop and no fumbles over Slaton's inconsistent gains and turnovers - at least until Slaton works out the fumble problem.

I want to see him show those good qualities against a real defense is all. To me a game against buffalo is like a preseason game. We will see, I'm sure, but I expect nothin out of Moats against indy.

HJam72
11-04-2009, 09:43 PM
I just hope they run block really well for somebody. I don't care who.

More than that, I'd like to see Manning get a lot of really close looks at the dirt.

eriadoc
11-04-2009, 09:48 PM
I want to see him show those good qualities against a real defense is all. To me a game against buffalo is like a preseason game. We will see, I'm sure, but I expect nothin out of Moats against indy.

He had the same decisiveness in the game he played in earlier this season. Hell, to be honest, the line looks better when Chris Brown is in there.

swtbound07
11-04-2009, 09:52 PM
He had the same decisiveness in the game he played in earlier this season. Hell, to be honest, the line looks better when Chris Brown is in there.


You might be right, you might not. We will learn a lot this sunday about our team. I think we lose if slaton doesn't get 15 touches. Just my opinion though.

CloakNNNdagger
11-04-2009, 10:10 PM
Sounds like a plan. I'd like to see Moats in the backfield and Slaton split wide and see how the Colts D reacts to the formation. If you don't cover Slaton & he gets the ball in open space = huge gains or TD.

RBs tend to have significantly higher fumble stats in general than WRs because they are usually hit by a mass of huge and strong DL and LBs, whereas WRs are usually greeted by a lesser number of leaner secondary.

It's OK to try to keep the Colts coaching staff guessing now, but come game time, Moats, for many reasons, should be allowed the starting job against the Colts. Slaton can be on the field with him but only as a slot receiver. As long as Slaton is thrown passes PAST the LOS, his chances for breaking it for a long run improve. At the same time, his chances of being stopped by a 2X4is more likely than running into a whole set of locomotives..........and losing the ball again.

Big Lou
11-04-2009, 10:14 PM
Where is the Danye train?

For the second time in franchise history we have starting caliber LT, let's not F it up by having Dayne roll over Browns knee!!!!

Big Lou
11-04-2009, 10:18 PM
I want to see him show those good qualities against a real defense is all. To me a game against buffalo is like a preseason game. We will see, I'm sure, but I expect nothin out of Moats against indy.

Moats looked good against Oakland..........


Not that the Raiders have a kick ass D or anything, but at least it wasn't a one game fluke, the fews touches he has gotten looked good.

Hardcore Texan
11-04-2009, 10:25 PM
For the second time in franchise history we have starting caliber LT, let's not F it up by having Dayne roll over Browns knee!!!!

Just be glad he's not on the team, and please never mention this outloud again...:)

Kaiser Toro
11-04-2009, 10:59 PM
Moats is just Moats

I don't know what world you are living in, but Moats > Moats. :lion:

TexCanada
11-04-2009, 11:18 PM
Who starts is vastly over-rated anyways. I'm sure they will both get some touches in the first quarter, and the playing time will be determined from their success.

Scooter
11-04-2009, 11:25 PM
i think it's good that kubiak hasnt named a starter yet. honestly i'd like to see moats start both because he's performing better and because we've blocked downhill better with moats and brown. the only time slaton's run with any authority is after his benching against oakland (where he was outperformed by moats). i'd like to see slaton substitute in and feel like he has to earn his job - decisive, head up with pads down and carrying the ball high and tight. if we can put that chip back on slaton's shoulder i'm fully confident that he'll return to form, and our offense will be twice what it is now if that's even possible, but i for one want him to earn it.

and since moat's first 38 carries were brough up, slaton's first 38 carries this season were 3.3ypc, 0td's, and 3 fumbles. we know what slaton CAN do, but we have to take into account what slaton IS doing.

DerekLee1
11-04-2009, 11:52 PM
I've said previously that Slaton is not a great primary-ZBS back. A season and a half in, and he still doesn't hit the hole fast enough. He tries to follow blockers. He's a phenomenal 3rd down back, is lighting quick, and catches passes like a WR. Moats and Brown seem to "get it" with this system, though, and hit the holes FAST. On a side note, I'm tired of the Brown-bashing, as the failures - the one fumble notwithstanding - have not really been his fault. He's a damn good RB and fits this system well.

Maybe this will light a fire under Slaton and he'll become similar to a Tiki Barber, who ALSO had trouble with fumbles early in his career. But at this point, I think you have to use Slaton sparingly until you're confident he can hold on to the ball.

Ryan
11-04-2009, 11:56 PM
You ONLY AS GOOD AS YOUR LAST GAME RIGHT? SO LET MOATS GET A SHOT? IF KUBIAK IS SUCH A FAIR ASS COACH, LIKE IT OR NOT HE EARNED HIS CARRIES, AND STEVE GAVE THEM AWAY. NO RB IN DA LEAGUE HAS FUMBLED EVERY GAME. SO SINCE HIS GOT SNATCHED WHEN HE GAVE THEM AWAY, LET MOATS HAVE TO GET HIS TAKEN AWAY. FAIR? RIGHT?

Quit yelling at me.

ObsiWan
11-05-2009, 12:44 AM
people are going to be stunned with how outstandingly mediocre ryan moats is when he isn't playing the crappiest run defense in the nfl. I'm already looking forward to the end of all of this 50/50 split crap.

Personally, I hope you're dead wrong.

We all recognized Slaton needed some effective help to carry the load at RB. You all remember those angry "why didn't we draft a RB?" arguments among the draft day threads. And now that Moats has shown he could provide that "effective help". We found the help we were looking for already on the team.

The way I see it, this isn't an "either Slaton or Moats" thing; it's a "whoever's hot today" thing. Unless y'all think Slaton is like Adrian Peterson, who gets stronger as the game goes along, I think Slaton should benefit from this help. In the 4th qtr he'll have fresher legs.

This isn't an issue. It's a blessing.

Put both of 'em to work.

Malloy
11-05-2009, 02:14 AM
I've said previously that Slaton is not a great primary-ZBS back. A season and a half in, and he still doesn't hit the hole fast enough. He tries to follow blockers. He's a phenomenal 3rd down back, is lighting quick, and catches passes like a WR. Moats and Brown seem to "get it" with this system, though, and hit the holes FAST. On a side note, I'm tired of the Brown-bashing, as the failures - the one fumble notwithstanding - have not really been his fault. He's a damn good RB and fits this system well.

Maybe this will light a fire under Slaton and he'll become similar to a Tiki Barber, who ALSO had trouble with fumbles early in his career. But at this point, I think you have to use Slaton sparingly until you're confident he can hold on to the ball.

I agree completely!

Other than his number of fumbles this year, my biggest problem with Slaton is that he seems to hesitate behind the los, looking for a hole or for something to happen. I believe that this hesitant nature is also the reason for his fumbles as more defenders are able to tune into to game and when Slaton finally moves forward he has more defenders to fight off.

Moats and Brown starts going forward the second they get the ball, and are often 5 yards past the LOS before someone gets to them.

Also, I am not so sure that Brown is a complete waste of space, short of the one fumble he's been getting yards, bit by bit. I think that if he had the chance to get 15+ snaps in a game, and get into some kind of groove, he could be VERY effective.

In the end it's up to Kubiak to figure out what player is on the field at what time, and I am sure that the RBs blocking abilities in passing situations are just as important to Kubiak as their rushing abilities.

Play the good blocker that's hot :)

Mr. White
11-05-2009, 08:24 AM
people are going to be stunned with how outstandingly mediocre ryan moats is when he isn't playing the crappiest run defense in the nfl. I'm already looking forward to the end of all of this 50/50 split crap.

Maybe so, but what does that say about Slaton since he was playing the worst run defense in the league and was not productive to say the least?

I hate to say it, but Moats has proven that he's the better runner this season when he gets the carries. He's just been running more decisively.

On a side note, I'm tired of the Brown-bashing, as the failures - the one fumble notwithstanding - have not really been his fault. He's a damn good RB and fits this system well.

Besides being a Texan, what exactly has Brown done to show you that he's still a competent RB? When he comes in the game, you know exactly what's gonna happen.....no gain.

swtbound07
11-05-2009, 09:06 AM
Maybe so, but what does that say about Slaton since he was playing the worst run defense in the league and was not productive to say the least?

I hate to say it, but Moats has proven that he's the better runner this season when he gets the carries. He's just been running more decisively.



Besides being a Texan, what exactly has Brown done to show you that he's still a competent RB. When he comes in the game, you know exactly what's gonna happen.....no gain.

um, he got one carry and then was benched for the rest of the game

Mr. White
11-05-2009, 09:17 AM
um, he got one carry and then was benched for the rest of the game

1 carry, 2 screen passes and 1 fumble. I'm a fan of the guy, but it's obvious he's in a sophomore slump. Happens to the best of em.

He could go on a 99 yard run for all I care. If he fumbles at the 1 yard line, then it won't matter. All that matters is the fumbles.

In the meantime, we need to play the guy that's hot.

HOU-TEX
11-05-2009, 09:20 AM
IMO, you've got to go with the hot hand. Moats hit the holes with decisiveness and was North/South as soon as he made his cut.

That said, I expect them both to get their fair share of touches throughout the game. We need all the help we can get in this game, especially from the running game.

TheRealJoker
11-05-2009, 09:25 AM
No reason to commit this early. Make the Colts prepare for all 3.

HoustonFrog
11-05-2009, 09:27 AM
2 things

1) Moats has been a backup and was let go by the Eagles for some things...injuries, blocking and receiving out of the backfield. Up until the last week and some carries in another game the coaches obviously had reservations and stuck with Slaton, etc.

2) With #1 said, Priest Holmes was a backup and let go by another team. Ryan Grant was a player the Giants didn't want. Cedric Benson failed with the Bears. Pierre Thomas was not on the Saints radar with Bush. So you never know when a guy is going to get it. He should get his carries and and maybe you find a diamond in the rough to go along with Slaton, etc. When he has run, it has been decisive at least.

Texan_Bill
11-05-2009, 09:30 AM
Where is the Danye train?

Let's ask HOU-TEX. I know he keeps up with Ron Dayne. :whip:

swtbound07
11-05-2009, 09:41 AM
1 carry, 2 screen passes and 1 fumble. I'm a fan of the guy, but it's obvious he's in a sophomore slump. Happens to the best of em.

He could go on a 99 yard run for all I care. If he fumbles at the 1 yard line, then it won't matter. All that matters is the fumbles.

In the meantime, we need to play the guy that's hot.

let me rephrase. NOBODY can be productive on 3 touches.

HOU-TEX
11-05-2009, 09:43 AM
Let's ask HOU-TEX. I know he keeps up with Ron Dayne. :whip:

:foottap: Here's the last time I saw him. He looked the same to me.

http://planetzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/fat-guy-eating-giant-hamburger1.jpg

Texan_Bill
11-05-2009, 09:45 AM
:foottap: Here's the last time I saw him. He looked the same to me.

http://planetzman.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/fat-guy-eating-giant-hamburger1.jpg

:spit: Right on!!

Mr. White
11-05-2009, 09:50 AM
let me rephrase. NOBODY can be productive on 3 touches.

Forget attempts. 7 fumbles and 5 lost fumbles is indicative of a pattern.

I'd rather win games than protect a player's psyche.

CloakNNNdagger
11-05-2009, 10:40 AM
Forget attempts. 7 fumbles and 5 lost fumbles is indicative of a pattern.

I'd rather win games than protect a player's psyche.

Kubiak would do well to pick up a copy of the book BE YOUR OWN THERAPIST and peruse the chapter YOU HURT MY FEELINGS-THEREFORE YOU SHOULD CHANGE

Double Barrel
11-05-2009, 10:47 AM
Sounds like a plan. I'd like to see Moats in the backfield and Slaton split wide and see how the Colts D reacts to the formation. If you don't cover Slaton & he gets the ball in open space = huge gains or TD.

I like it. Slaton seems to be most effective this season when he's catching those short passes in space. And with OD out for the season, we need to mix up our packages. I think we will see more 3 WR sets, but it would be cool to see the dual-threat of Moats/Slaton, as well. The defense would have to account for two small speedy guys, in addition to AJ & KW.

I've said previously that Slaton is not a great primary-ZBS back. A season and a half in, and he still doesn't hit the hole fast enough. He tries to follow blockers. He's a phenomenal 3rd down back, is lighting quick, and catches passes like a WR. Moats and Brown seem to "get it" with this system, though, and hit the holes FAST. On a side note, I'm tired of the Brown-bashing, as the failures - the one fumble notwithstanding - have not really been his fault. He's a damn good RB and fits this system well.

Maybe this will light a fire under Slaton and he'll become similar to a Tiki Barber, who ALSO had trouble with fumbles early in his career. But at this point, I think you have to use Slaton sparingly until you're confident he can hold on to the ball.

I feel the same way. I like Slaton, but he's just not hitting the holes like he did last season. I was wondering if it was the line, but then Moats comes in and finds them on a consistent basis. I think Slaton will get it together, though. He was fantastic last year, but he's just failing some basic fundamentals right now, so he needs to take care of the ball and work on his burst at the line.

GP
11-05-2009, 11:02 AM
let me rephrase. NOBODY can be productive on 3 touches.

I think you might be seeing things through your bias toward Steve Slaton. I remember last year, at the start of the season, you were very vocal on here about how Steve should be starting ahead of Ahman Green.

You even had a hat-eating bet upon when he would be starting for us.

Obviously, Slaton took over Ahman's role somewhere around the 4th or 5th game IIRC. The staff tried to go with Ahman, but he kept getting hurt or limited in action on gameday. So...your prediction came true, though a tad later than the bet guidelines put forth.

Having said all that, I don't think you should be so emotionally invested in which RB is toting the rock the most, or is pegged "the starter," or which one will have x-amount of success against any type of team we face.

It seems you're tearing down Moats in order to build "your guy" back up.

The trend (and trends ARE important) is that Steve is in a huge slump right now. Our team, however, is in a huge winning streak right now. Not a bad idea by Gary Kubiak to make the executive decision that Steve needs a breather. To sit out awhile.

The hot hand is Moats. If he cools off vs. Indy, then you're going to see Slaton come in and try to reclaim the role. I just care about production, and Steve's a mixed bag right now as far as I am concerned.

We can't fumble the ball to the Colts. We can't throw picks to the Colts. It's going to take an "A" game on both sides fo the ball.

I expect Moats to have a great game. He's hitting that hole, and he's squirming through tiny gaps and getting 2-3 yards.

buddyboy
11-05-2009, 11:15 AM
let me rephrase. NOBODY can be productive on 3 touches.

However, you can certainly be COUNTER-productive.

GP
11-05-2009, 11:24 AM
However, you can certainly be COUNTER-productive.

And that's what I think is the most important thing right now.

If Matt Schaub throws 7 balls directly to the opposing D-backs, he's going to get benched.

Steve isn't on the bench forever. But when he gets back in there, he can't fumble the ball during the game. He's going to need several games of playing, regardless of 1 carry or 20-per-game, and NOT fumbling.

Two arms around the ball, when in traffic, might need to be utilized by Steve. And if he's wrapped up or tangled up in a pile, he probably should just get a knee down as fast as possible.

These are things the guy could do. It's not asking too much, not at this stage of the season with how many he's fumbled AND lost.

Double Barrel
11-05-2009, 12:03 PM
Two arms around the ball, when in traffic, might need to be utilized by Steve. And if he's wrapped up or tangled up in a pile, he probably should just get a knee down as fast as possible.

No doubt. I can't remember which game I was watching last weekend, but the RB would wrap the ball with both arms when he hit traffic. It might have been Michael Turner with the Falcons, IIRC. But he was protecting that ball like it was his life, and he did not let himself get stood up so some other defender could come in and work on stripping the ball. Slaton needs to go down instead of fighting for that extra yard if it means the difference between holding on to the ball or losing it.

GP
11-05-2009, 12:14 PM
No doubt. I can't remember which game I was watching last weekend, but the RB would wrap the ball with both arms when he hit traffic. It might have been Michael Turner with the Falcons, IIRC. But he was protecting that ball like it was his life, and he did not let himself get stood up so some other defender could come in and work on stripping the ball. Slaton needs to go down instead of fighting for that extra yard if it means the difference between holding on to the ball or losing it.

Moats and Brown were doing it, too. I remember one play in the middle area of the field when our RB was spun around by gang tacklers, and you could see the RB get a death-grip with both arms around the ball. You couldn't even see the ball anymore. Just hands and biceps and forearms.

thunderkyss
11-05-2009, 12:56 PM
Guys need to remember:

Against SanFran: Slaton ran for 67 yards & a TD.. caught for 22 yards & a TD
Against Cincy: 43 rushing yards 102 receiving & a TD
Against Oakland: 65 rushing a TD 24 receiving & another TD
Against Jacksonville: 76 yards rushing. 37 yards receiving

I understand the fumblitis... but we can't ignore what he does bring. He is a play-maker, and deserves to be on the field. By reducing his touches, hopefully we'll increase the touch to turn-over ratio...

We can ask him.... or Moats.. or CBrown to carry the load, when we need them to carry the load. Right now, we don't need any of them to "carry the load" all we need is for them to contribute.

Mr. White
11-05-2009, 12:57 PM
The trend (and trends ARE important) is that Steve is in a huge slump right now.

Great way to put it. See Lidge, Brad.

This is nothing new, either. I'm pretty sure that if you look up his scouting reports, it'll say something about a problem with him holding onto the ball.

thunderkyss
11-05-2009, 01:00 PM
1 carry, 2 screen passes and 1 fumble. I'm a fan of the guy, but it's obvious he's in a sophomore slump. Happens to the best of em.

He could go on a 99 yard run for all I care. If he fumbles at the 1 yard line, then it won't matter. All that matters is the fumbles.

In the meantime, we need to play the guy that's hot.

didn't he already do that... or something similar? against Jacksonville I think.

thunderkyss
11-05-2009, 01:07 PM
Obviously, Slaton took over Ahman's role somewhere around the 4th or 5th game IIRC. The staff tried to go with Ahman, but he kept getting hurt or limited in action on gameday.

Which is something we see again this year. Performance doesn't seem to matter as much as "being right" with this group. Ahman should have been replaced by Slaton long before he actually was, based on performance.

& it seems like the Coaches have tried everything they could to keep Moats off the field, even going back to last year.

When you see the guy on the field, you know it's not a talent issue. I agree he isn't Steve Slaton.... & may never be a "factor back" but the kid can play football, and looks like he's got something to prove.

beerlover
11-05-2009, 01:22 PM
speaking of Ahman, did anyone else see him play last Sunday against the Vikings? where in the hell was some of that when he was here :mcnugget:

GP
11-05-2009, 01:29 PM
Which is something we see again this year. Performance doesn't seem to matter as much as "being right" with this group. Ahman should have been replaced by Slaton long before he actually was, based on performance.

& it seems like the Coaches have tried everything they could to keep Moats off the field, even going back to last year.

When you see the guy on the field, you know it's not a talent issue. I agree he isn't Steve Slaton.... & may never be a "factor back" but the kid can play football, and looks like he's got something to prove.

Moats is probably a little hungrier for it than Slaton is. Slaton waited a few games last season. Moats? He was with another team, then came here and has been watching from the sideline while getting only a few snaps. Until now.

I can't get inside either one's head, but I will say that one guy this year has been benched more than once for the same offense. And the other guy knows what it's like to have to battle it out (when with the Eagles) and what it's like to have to sit and wait it out (with the Texans). He might see this as one of his last chances to solidify his dream of being a starter somewhere.

Moats is going to get the majority of carries until he gets hurt, makes bone-headed plays, or gets shut down and we need a different guy to try and make an impact against some team's defense.

I see Kubiak splitting carries, but making no commitment to Slaton too soon.

We need both guys. They are good, and one is just more reliable with the ball right now.

Malloy
11-05-2009, 03:41 PM
speaking of Ahman, did anyone else see him play last Sunday against the Vikings? where in the hell was some of that when he was here :mcnugget:

Thats exactly my thoughts, he ran hard, even returned kicks... wtf!?!?

Im glad he had a chance to go to Houston for two years in order to get healthy enough... to go back and play for GB...

infantrycak
11-05-2009, 03:46 PM
Thats exactly my thoughts, he ran hard, even returned kicks... wtf!?!?

Im glad he had a chance to go to Houston for two years in order to get healthy enough... to go back and play for GB...

Am I missing something? - the stat line I saw was 2 carries for 1 yd.

cj5776
11-05-2009, 03:52 PM
I think the fact Green returns kicks now, throws people off

Mr. White
11-05-2009, 03:57 PM
I think that the fact that he left the field without crutches is an improvement.

Malloy
11-05-2009, 04:03 PM
Am I missing something? - the stat line I saw was 2 carries for 1 yd.

Sorry, ran hard on returns, fell... then GOT RIGHT BACK UP!!!

I'm not sure it's the same person, something is wierd here :)

TimeKiller
11-05-2009, 04:25 PM
I'd rather see Moats diving into gaps like he's running out of a building that's about to explode. Maybe Slaton is still the better outside the tackles runner, screen pass catcher with his superior speed and hands but Moats seems to have the 1 cut and go down pat and I think that makes him more effective/consistent between the tackles.

Also discounting Moats for blowing up weak competition while ignoring that Slaton has looked not-so-hot against better teams is an awkward point. At some point TDs quit making up for fumbles and we came to it last week, against that same terrible D Moats isn't getting much credit for doing what Steve couldn't. Even with more of an emphasis on Slaton's pass catching and YAC abilities he's struggling to break 100 yards a game total production.

I think he's probably just showing his true nature now. A 3rd down back that's probably being relied on too much. The #2 of a 1-2 punch.

hot pickle
11-05-2009, 05:09 PM
just to set this straight... i love steve slaton and when every i make a joke about his fumbling its just in good fun cause although it pisses me off its kinda funny at this point that hes still fumbling lol

GP
11-05-2009, 06:53 PM
I'd rather see Moats diving into gaps like he's running out of a building that's about to explode. Maybe Slaton is still the better outside the tackles runner, screen pass catcher with his superior speed and hands but Moats seems to have the 1 cut and go down pat and I think that makes him more effective/consistent between the tackles.

Also discounting Moats for blowing up weak competition while ignoring that Slaton has looked not-so-hot against better teams is an awkward point. At some point TDs quit making up for fumbles and we came to it last week, against that same terrible D Moats isn't getting much credit for doing what Steve couldn't. Even with more of an emphasis on Slaton's pass catching and YAC abilities he's struggling to break 100 yards a game total production.

I think he's probably just showing his true nature now. A 3rd down back that's probably being relied on too much. The #2 of a 1-2 punch.

We have to remember that this is his 2nd year in the NFL. And he was carrying the load fairly early last season. That's a lot of pressure on a young guy, returning his second year and picking up right where he left off.

Then he starts fumbling again. It's not like he's thrilled about it, either, We're not the only ones confused and concerned.

I think he's at a fork in the running lane of his career, and he's got to choose whether he cuts back left or cuts to the right.

Does he pout and develop character issues because he wants to shed this fumbling burden by placing his focus on how he's been treated ("I'm not the only one who loses the ball")? Or does he dig down deep and really try to get past this, accepting whatever consequences result (such as losing snaps to Moats)?

It's gotta' be hard to be him right now. He must feel like he's got a huge target on his back. And there's Moats, stepping in and holding onto the ball and chugging away.

So I still believe in the guy. The things he has said, in the past, seem to indicate that he's a deep thinker and that he believes in himself.

unreals
11-05-2009, 10:54 PM
Again, such short memories here. Give me one example of a rookie RB who produced like Slaton did last season, who was benched (for any reason) like he was last game, only halfway through his second year? Other than because of injury, I can't think of another example where a young player with such obvious ability could be perhaps out of a starting job so soon in his career. I know- it's all about the fumbles. I understand that, but looking at the big picture....

Kubiak began screwing with his young star in the offseason. He publicly proclaimed that lifelong journeyman Chris Brown was going to be the team's goal line back. This, after speculation from everyone that the Texans needed to bring in another running back. This was before any fumbling problem. Why was RB a target area? With the team's woeful offensive line, why was RB such a high priority? Again, please give me a single example in the history of the NFL where a rookie RB produced like Slaton did, then had everyone speculating that his team would draft another RB high the next season, or sign a high profile free agent RB. You won't be able to, because it's an unprecedented situation. Slaton put up better numbers than fellow rookies Chris Johnson and Matt Forte last season, yet has never been given any respect. He wasn't named to the Pro Bowl last season (Johnson was). As I noted in another post, while Kubiak was doing everything he could to make Slaton think he WASN'T the answer at RB, Jeff Fisher was publicly stating that his team needed to get the ball in the hands of Chris Johnson. That makes sense. Why did we never hear anything like that from Kubiak?

As for Matt Forte, he has looked sluggish and very unimpressive this season. And his rookie campaign was overrated, as well. He averaged under 4 ypc (while Slaton averaged 5 ypc). The Bears brought no one in to share the load with him, despite speculation that Kevin Jones might garner some touches. After Jones' injury, the team didn't attempt to sign another back, and has still given Forte numerous touches this year, despite his lack of production. As for goal line work, I read an incredible stat today; Forte has converted only TWO out of 19 attempts at the goal line this season. I can only imagine the hue and cry on this forum, and others as well, if Slaton had that kind of abysmal record at the goal line. I haven't read a single word of criticism about Forte from Lovie Smith or anyone else with the Bears. Btw, backup Garrett Wolfe- who was every bit as accomplished as Ryan Moats in college- has a great ypc average in limited touches behind Forte. Do you think Bears fans are demanding that Wolfe start? Yes, I know Forte doesn't have a fumbling problem, but that isn't the only problem a RB can have. Certainly his woeful ypc, total lack of production and his horrific record at the goal line should cause his coach to at least consider giving Wolfe more touches, or to bring in some real competition.

My point is that Kubiak set out to undercut his star player before this season, and before any fumbling problems began. There was the rampant speculation that the team would draft another RB or sign a free agent, then Kubiak's thoughtless public expression of regret that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson, and of course the announcement, prior to the beginning of the year, that Slaton would be pulled in favor of oft injured, nonproductive Chris Brown in goal line and short yardage situations. Exactly what was Steve Slaton supposed to think about all this? Combined with the very lukewarm support Kubiak gave him last season, even when he was a great producer for his offense, there is no question in my mind that Slaton must have already felt underappreciated and unwanted by his own head coach. When Kubiak went beserk after his first fumble this season, and continued to press the issue after the next few, thereby creating enormous pressure on his young RB, I can't believe he made things any better.

What's mind boggling is how ready most all of you are to write off this dynamic RB, only half a season removed from being better statistically than Chris Johnson. It's so easy to say- "hey, what have you done for me lately, sit his ass down until he learns to hold onto the ball" and assorted fan rhetoric like that. Consider things in context; coaches often do not meld with particular players. There is no question in my mind that Kubiak has never liked Slaton as his feature RB and was looking for any excuse to take him out of that role. The fumbles have given him a great reason.

If Kubiak relaxes and stops acting psycho every time Slaton makes a mistake, then he will eventually turn it around. He's too good a player not to do that. However, if he banishes him to the bench, or turns him into a Kevin Faulk type third down back, then Slaton's already shaken confidence will be very hard to restore. It may take a change of scenery, or a change in head coaches, but Slaton will be back if given the opportunity.

ObsiWan
11-06-2009, 01:22 AM
My point is that Kubiak set out to undercut his star player before this season, and before any fumbling problems began. There was the rampant speculation that the team would draft another RB or sign a free agent, then Kubiak's thoughtless public expression of regret that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson, and of course the announcement, prior to the beginning of the year, that Slaton would be pulled in favor of oft injured, nonproductive Chris Brown in goal line and short yardage situations. Exactly what was Steve Slaton supposed to think about all this? Combined with the very lukewarm support Kubiak gave him last season, even when he was a great producer for his offense, there is no question in my mind that Slaton must have already felt underappreciated and unwanted by his own head coach. When Kubiak went beserk after his first fumble this season, and continued to press the issue after the next few, thereby creating enormous pressure on his young RB, I can't believe he made things any better.

Three things in this paragraph:
My point is that Kubiak set out to undercut his star player before this season, and before any fumbling problems began.
The first one is just flat out silly. First of all, Andre Johnson is our "star player". While Steve Slaton is a very important cog in our offensive machine, the offense is built around A.J. If you don't realize this, you're not paying attention.

then Kubiak's thoughtless public expression of regret that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson,
Several people have pointed you to quotes and whatnot that disprove this train of thought. Apparently you choose to ignore this info because it runs counter to your argument. This makes you rather suspect - I'm beginning to think you're a rather upscale troll because your arguments are built around supposition and ignore the facts and quotes I, and others, have pointed out that dispute you're point of view. You're beginning to sound like one of those "don't bother me with facts, my mind's made up folks".
there is no question in my mind that Slaton must have already felt underappreciated and unwanted by his own head coach
oh so now you read minds. Great. I wonder what Slaton, himself, would think of this assessment. Again, you have less faith in Slaton than the rest of us. I think he's a lot stronger man that you give him credit for.

What's mind boggling is how ready most all of you are to write off this dynamic RB, only half a season removed from being better statistically than Chris Johnson. It's so easy to say- "hey, what have you done for me lately, sit his ass down until he learns to hold onto the ball" and assorted fan rhetoric like that. Consider things in context; coaches often do not meld with particular players. There is no question in my mind that Kubiak has never liked Slaton as his feature RB and was looking for any excuse to take him out of that role. The fumbles have given him a great reason.


Show me someplace, other than your own paranoid mind, where there's proof of this. I defy you.
Those of us who remember Wali Lundy, know how he got sat down for weeks - and eventually was traded away - because of his fumbling issues. We also recall, how Jacoby Jones was pretty much on the bubble because of his fumbling issues. There was a game where he fumbled and was relieved of his PR duties for that game.
And Slaton's fumbling issues are much worse. Yet, Kubiak still starts him every game. And stays with him. Until he fumbles.

And there's a part of this dynamic you are conveniently ignoring.
Accountability.
The head coach cannot let a guy, any guy, fail to do his job and still continue to let it slide. I assume you know that holding onto the ball is a big part of any RB's job. So I ask you if Kubiak ignored this issue, what message would that send to the other 52 guys who do their job week in and week out. What about THEIR mindsets?
Slaton is good, but not good enough to let him slide to the detriment of the rest of the team.
No one should be.

Carr Bombed
11-06-2009, 01:42 AM
Three things in this paragraph:
My point is that Kubiak set out to undercut his star player before this season, and before any fumbling problems began.
The first one is just flat out silly. First of all, Andre Johnson is our "star player". While Steve Slaton is a very important cog in our offensive machine, the offense is built around A.J. If you don't realize this, you're not paying attention.

then Kubiak's thoughtless public expression of regret that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson,
Several people have pointed you to quotes and whatnot that disprove this train of thought. Apparently you choose to ignore this info because it runs counter to your argument. This makes you rather suspect - I'm beginning to think you're a rather upscale troll because your arguments are built around supposition and ignore the facts and quotes I, and others, have pointed out that dispute you're point of view. You're beginning to sound like one of those "don't bother me with facts, my mind's made up folks".
there is no question in my mind that Slaton must have already felt underappreciated and unwanted by his own head coach
oh so now you read minds. Great. I wonder what Slaton, himself, would think of this assessment. Again, you have less faith in Slaton than the rest of us. I think he's a lot stronger man that you give him credit for.



Show me someplace, other than your own paranoid mind, where there's proof of this. I defy you.
Those of us who remember Wali Lundy, know how he got sat down for weeks - and eventually was traded away - because of his fumbling issues. We also recall, how Jacoby Jones was pretty much on the bubble because of his fumbling issues. There was a game where he fumbled and was relieved of his PR duties for that game.
And Slaton's fumbling issues are much worse. Yet, Kubiak still starts him every game. And stays with him. Until he fumbles.

And there's a part of this dynamic you are conveniently ignoring.
Accountability.
The head coach cannot let a guy, any guy, fail to do his job and still continue to let it slide. I assume you know that holding onto the ball is a big part of any RB's job. So I ask you if Kubiak ignored this issue, what message would that send to the other 52 guys who do their job week in and week out. What about THEIR mindsets?
Slaton is good, but not good enough to let him slide to the detriment of the rest of the team.
No one should be.

Don't waste your time on this tool...he has already proven he doesn't know what the hell he's talking about. He's clueless.

unreals
11-06-2009, 02:15 AM
Yes, I must be "clueless" alright. Sorry I can't jump on the yahooie bandwagon with you all, and call for Slaton's blood because he's a convenient whipping boy. Sorry, I also can't accept you turning a career journeyman like Moats into a "better" RB than last year's rookie sensation because of one good game against the worst run defense in the league. I apologize for being so uninformed.

It's always hard to debate typical fans-which most of you on this board clearly are. Your kind is as old as the lynch mob- go with the popular, majority vote so that you can cheer something, anything. If Slaton bounces back from this adversity and rolls off a handful of great games, most of you will disappear back into the woodwork. Some will be singing his praises the loudest. The vast majority of sports fans are bandwagon jumpers. You desperately want to be on a winner, and also to be a part of it all. Hence, the disturbing tendency to constantly refer to "us" and "we" when discussing your favorite team. If Moats reverts back to a third-string nonentity, as he by all rights should, again none of those who think he "just hits the hole harder," "deserves to be the starter" or "is the better runner" will bother to show up and defend your ridiculous assertions. That's just human nature.

I don't know Steve Slaton, and it won't affect my life at all is he never plays another down in the NFL. I happen to believe in fairness, however, and he has not been treated fairly, as compared to any of his peers (running backs who had stellar rookie seasons). That's just a fact, and you can't dispute it. I asked for a single example of any rookie RB, with the stats Slaton produced, having their team put RB as a top priority need to address after that great rookie season. You can't cite an example, because none exist. Also, I asked for another example of a coach lamenting the fact his team didn't sign a particular free agent in public, as Kubiak did with Benson. You have said I misinterpreted Kubiak's intent, or his words. Regardless, he did comment on this, and a reasonable person would interpret his remarks to indicate that he wished the team had signed Benson. I can't imagine that made Slaton feel good. Again, regardless of his true intent, show me another example where a head coach made comments like that.

Of course, Slaton bears the brunt of responsibility for his fumbling. He's the one doing it, after all. However, perspective is everything here- atmosphere and management can help or hinder all employees. I believe one poster commented on how Slaton didn't react well to platooning with another back at West Virginia, describing it as "looking over his shoulder." That's exactly my point; maybe some players would respond to Kubiak's "tough" tactics, but Slaton clearly is frustrated by it and his self-confidence has been effected. What coach wants to wreck the self-confidence of his best players?

Malloy
11-06-2009, 02:37 AM
At this point I'm just wondering what the familiy connection to Slaton is...

Marcus
11-06-2009, 03:03 AM
unreals, if you had been keeping up during the offseason, you would know that the reason why the team was wanting to sign Benson, or draft another running back . . . was simply to have a quality back come in to give Slaton a breather, or come in the case Slaton went down with an injury, (RBs do get hurt you know)

I never read or heard anything from Kubiak that I would have interpreted that he was unhappy with Steve in the offseason. And his handling of Steve's fumbling has been no different than any other coach's handling of any RB that has a fumbling problem.

I don't know if you're a troll or Slaton's girlfriend. If you are, then I understand why you've been pulling all this unsubstantiated and ridiculous crap out of your butt.

But if you're actually not, give it a rest, will ya? Your dumb assertions would be funny, if you were joking. But as such, you're just pathetic. :loser

PHAROAH
11-06-2009, 03:36 AM
Man you guys are silly calling for a career backup to start over one of the best young running backs in the NFL in Steve Slaton due to rough patch he has hit in 2nd season.. Ryan Moats is in his 5th season and he finally had his best game of his career against one of the worst NFL teams in the Buffalo Bills. Give me a Break Steve Slaton is the starter in Houston but I will agree that Chris Brown is straight garbage and I would to see the Texans sign Edgerrin James for the remainder of the season and cut Chris Brown.

PHAROAH
11-06-2009, 03:42 AM
Yes, I must be "clueless" alright. Sorry I can't jump on the yahooie bandwagon with you all, and call for Slaton's blood because he's a convenient whipping boy. Sorry, I also can't accept you turning a career journeyman like Moats into a "better" RB than last year's rookie sensation because of one good game against the worst run defense in the league. I apologize for being so uninformed.

It's always hard to debate typical fans-which most of you on this board clearly are. Your kind is as old as the lynch mob- go with the popular, majority vote so that you can cheer something, anything. If Slaton bounces back from this adversity and rolls off a handful of great games, most of you will disappear back into the woodwork. Some will be singing his praises the loudest. The vast majority of sports fans are bandwagon jumpers. You desperately want to be on a winner, and also to be a part of it all. Hence, the disturbing tendency to constantly refer to "us" and "we" when discussing your favorite team. If Moats reverts back to a third-string nonentity, as he by all rights should, again none of those who think he "just hits the hole harder," "deserves to be the starter" or "is the better runner" will bother to show up and defend your ridiculous assertions. That's just human nature.

I don't know Steve Slaton, and it won't affect my life at all is he never plays another down in the NFL. I happen to believe in fairness, however, and he has not been treated fairly, as compared to any of his peers (running backs who had stellar rookie seasons). That's just a fact, and you can't dispute it. I asked for a single example of any rookie RB, with the stats Slaton produced, having their team put RB as a top priority need to address after that great rookie season. You can't cite an example, because none exist. Also, I asked for another example of a coach lamenting the fact his team didn't sign a particular free agent in public, as Kubiak did with Benson. You have said I misinterpreted Kubiak's intent, or his words. Regardless, he did comment on this, and a reasonable person would interpret his remarks to indicate that he wished the team had signed Benson. I can't imagine that made Slaton feel good. Again, regardless of his true intent, show me another example where a head coach made comments like that.

Of course, Slaton bears the brunt of responsibility for his fumbling. He's the one doing it, after all. However, perspective is everything here- atmosphere and management can help or hinder all employees. I believe one poster commented on how Slaton didn't react well to platooning with another back at West Virginia, describing it as "looking over his shoulder." That's exactly my point; maybe some players would respond to Kubiak's "tough" tactics, but Slaton clearly is frustrated by it and his self-confidence has been effected. What coach wants to wreck the self-confidence of his best players?

Man that was a hell of post but the knuckle heads will be gunning after you for pointing them out as being unloyal to the franchise running back, but good post!!!!


:voodoo: :ant: :goodpost:

ObsiWan
11-06-2009, 06:58 AM
Yes, I must be "clueless" alright. Sorry I can't jump on the yahooie bandwagon with you all, and call for Slaton's blood because he's a convenient whipping boy. Sorry, I also can't accept you turning a career journeyman like Moats into a "better" RB than last year's rookie sensation because of one good game against the worst run defense in the league. I apologize for being so uninformed.
Look, it's simple... Slaton is our starting RB. He's no one's "whipping boy". I, for one, am not ready to hand the starting job to Moats. Now some have said let Moats start because he earned it with his performance last week but that's about as far as it goes. I've seen no "Cut Steve Slaton" posts/threads or "Trade Steve while we can get something for him because he's crap" posts/threads like I have seen for say, Jacoby Jones. So this "whipping boy" stuff is in your own head.

It's always hard to debate typical fans-which most of you on this board clearly are. Your kind is as old as the lynch mob- go with the popular, majority vote so that you can cheer something, anything. If Slaton bounces back from this adversity and rolls off a handful of great games, most of you will disappear back into the woodwork. Some will be singing his praises the loudest. The vast majority of sports fans are bandwagon jumpers. You desperately want to be on a winner, and also to be a part of it all. Hence, the disturbing tendency to constantly refer to "us" and "we" when discussing your favorite team. If Moats reverts back to a third-string nonentity, as he by all rights should, again none of those who think he "just hits the hole harder," "deserves to be the starter" or "is the better runner" will bother to show up and defend your ridiculous assertions. That's just human nature.
That sentence is very telling. It says you're more about Slaton the individual player than you are a fan of THE TEAM. I want them both to perform well. That means we have two solid weapons at RB and two guys opposing defenses will have to prepare for. That make things better for OUR TEAM. Slaton has too much talent for us to just give up on that's why this fumbling thing is so disappointing. We all want him to work through it. It's better for the OUR team. And yes, I said "our" and "my" because I'm a Texans fan. I was when they were 2-14 and I am now that they're doing reasonably well (I'm still nervous about using the "P" word :) ). So if that's a bad thing, so be it.

I don't know Steve Slaton, and it won't affect my life at all is he never plays another down in the NFL. I happen to believe in fairness, however, and he has not been treated fairly, as compared to any of his peers (running backs who had stellar rookie seasons). That's just a fact, and you can't dispute it. I asked for a single example of any rookie RB, with the stats Slaton produced, having their team put RB as a top priority need to address after that great rookie season. You can't cite an example, because none exist. Also, I asked for another example of a coach lamenting the fact his team didn't sign a particular free agent in public, as Kubiak did with Benson. You have said I misinterpreted Kubiak's intent, or his words. Regardless, he did comment on this, and a reasonable person would interpret his remarks to indicate that he wished the team had signed Benson. I can't imagine that made Slaton feel good. Again, regardless of his true intent, show me another example where a head coach made comments like that. [/quote]
If RB was a "top priority" why didn't we draft one? Why didn't we offer Benson more money?? We didn't sign Benson because - I believe - because we weren't going to pay Benson starter money to be a backup. So Benson went where he would start and get paid like a starter. End of discussion. When Kubiak said, "we decided to go a different direction" I'd bet good money that 's what he meant. We weren't gonna give Benson starter money to for the hand full of carries he would have gotten being the #2 behind Slaton.

Of course, Slaton bears the brunt of responsibility for his fumbling. He's the one doing it, after all. However, perspective is everything here- atmosphere and management can help or hinder all employees. I believe one poster commented on how Slaton didn't react well to platooning with another back at West Virginia, describing it as "looking over his shoulder." That's exactly my point; maybe some players would respond to Kubiak's "tough" tactics, but Slaton clearly is frustrated by it and his self-confidence has been effected. What coach wants to wreck the self-confidence of his best players?
There's one point we agree on. And I think Slaton will get it fixed - and sooner rather than later.

Again, there's nothing wrong with having a one/two punch at RB. Keeps Slaton fresher as games, and the season, wears on. I look at Moats' performance as a blessing for the team, not a curse for Slaton.

I don't understand why you fail to see it in that light.

Thorn
11-06-2009, 07:16 AM
A lot of ruckus over nothing. Slaton is our star RB, but not right now, or until he quits fumbling. When he does, he'll be right back to being our star RB. Until then, he needs to sit his happy ass down.

I agree that Moats had a nice game. I also agree it probably isn't an indicator of what he will do in the future. It would be GREAT if it was, but we'll find out here in a very short time either way.

DexmanC
11-06-2009, 07:16 AM
Three things in this paragraph:
My point is that Kubiak set out to undercut his star player before this season, and before any fumbling problems began.
The first one is just flat out silly. First of all, Andre Johnson is our "star player". While Steve Slaton is a very important cog in our offensive machine, the offense is built around A.J. If you don't realize this, you're not paying attention.

then Kubiak's thoughtless public expression of regret that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson,
Several people have pointed you to quotes and whatnot that disprove this train of thought. Apparently you choose to ignore this info because it runs counter to your argument. This makes you rather suspect - I'm beginning to think you're a rather upscale troll because your arguments are built around supposition and ignore the facts and quotes I, and others, have pointed out that dispute you're point of view. You're beginning to sound like one of those "don't bother me with facts, my mind's made up folks".
there is no question in my mind that Slaton must have already felt underappreciated and unwanted by his own head coach
oh so now you read minds. Great. I wonder what Slaton, himself, would think of this assessment. Again, you have less faith in Slaton than the rest of us. I think he's a lot stronger man that you give him credit for.



Show me someplace, other than your own paranoid mind, where there's proof of this. I defy you.
Those of us who remember Wali Lundy, know how he got sat down for weeks - and eventually was traded away - because of his fumbling issues. We also recall, how Jacoby Jones was pretty much on the bubble because of his fumbling issues. There was a game where he fumbled and was relieved of his PR duties for that game.
And Slaton's fumbling issues are much worse. Yet, Kubiak still starts him every game. And stays with him. Until he fumbles.

And there's a part of this dynamic you are conveniently ignoring.
Accountability.
The head coach cannot let a guy, any guy, fail to do his job and still continue to let it slide. I assume you know that holding onto the ball is a big part of any RB's job. So I ask you if Kubiak ignored this issue, what message would that send to the other 52 guys who do their job week in and week out. What about THEIR mindsets?
Slaton is good, but not good enough to let him slide to the detriment of the rest of the team.
No one should be.

And Jacoby MANNED UP in pre-season, as he was on the bubble till the
FINAL GAME. Once he caught that BOMB from Grossman, he was done
for the night. Kubes was convinced that Jacoby had FINALLY put a stamp
on the great camp he had. Point is, you have to EARN respect. Slaton
has been fumbling since GAME ONE. Remember the Jets game? The offense
was finally getting into a rhythm, and Slaton fumbles at the 20-YARDLINE!

His fumbling problem would have cost us 3 more games, but Duane Brown
bailed him out of one game by recovering BOTH of his fumbles, and the
defense shut down the offense in the other two . The Colts game MUST
be played with MINIMAL mistakes. Kubes would be a FOOL to allow Steve
to throw this game away for his team. I see Steve to be in LIMITED duty,
until he has his "Jacoby Jones moment" (that he fixes his problem.)

Don't blame Kubiak for this, CREDIT him for it.

whiskeyrbl
11-06-2009, 07:41 AM
And Jacoby MANNED UP in pre-season, as he was on the bubble till the
FINAL GAME. Once he caught that BOMB from Grossman, he was done
for the night. Kubes was convinced that Jacoby had FINALLY put a stamp
on the great camp he had. Point is, you have to EARN respect. Slaton
has been fumbling since GAME ONE. Remember the Jets game? The offense
was finally getting into a rhythm, and Slaton fumbles at the 20-YARDLINE!

His fumbling problem would have cost us 3 more games, but Duane Brown
bailed him out of one game by recovering BOTH of his fumbles, and the
defense shut down the offense in the other two . The Colts game MUST
be played with MINIMAL mistakes. Kubes would be a FOOL to allow Steve
to throw this game away for his team. I see Steve to be in LIMITED duty,
until he has his "Jacoby Jones moment" (that he fixes his problem.)

Don't blame Kubiak for this, CREDIT him for it.

Great point and agree 100% on your last line.

whiskeyrbl
11-06-2009, 07:47 AM
A lot of ruckus over nothing. Slaton is our star RB, but not right now, or until he quits fumbling. When he does, he'll be right back to being our star RB. Until then, he needs to sit his happy ass down.

I agree that Moats had a nice game. I also agree it probably isn't an indicator of what he will do in the future. It would be GREAT if it was, but we'll find out here in a very short time either way.

Moats had a great day against the 32nd ranked rushing defense, now we are going up against the 17th ranked rushing defense. The one thing about Moats last Sunday was he was hitting the holes fast and hard, where Slaton for whatever reason looked a little hesitant. My remarks about the defense rankings in no way was to take away from the day Moats' had, just stating that as a fact.

Thorn
11-06-2009, 07:58 AM
Moats had a great day against the 32nd ranked rushing defense, now we are going up against the 17th ranked rushing defense. The one thing about Moats last Sunday was he was hitting the holes fast and hard, where Slaton for whatever reason looked a little hesitant. My remarks about the defense rankings in no way was to take away from the day Moats' had, just stating that as a fact.

If Moats can run for 126 yards against the worst run defense in the league, then perhaps he can run for about 80 against Indy. Throw in a few screens and he'll be having a fine day. I agree with your point about Moats hitting the holes better, and we'll need everything every player has to beat the Colts on the road.

I was almost over my Jacoby Jones "Oh No" reflex when I saw him coming on the field. But now I've developed a Slaton "Oh No" reflex to replace it. Damn, this team just won't cut me any slack. LOL

BigBull17
11-06-2009, 08:06 AM
I'd rather see Moats diving into gaps like he's running out of a building that's about to explode. Maybe Slaton is still the better outside the tackles runner, screen pass catcher with his superior speed and hands but Moats seems to have the 1 cut and go down pat and I think that makes him more effective/consistent between the tackles.

Also discounting Moats for blowing up weak competition while ignoring that Slaton has looked not-so-hot against better teams is an awkward point. At some point TDs quit making up for fumbles and we came to it last week, against that same terrible D Moats isn't getting much credit for doing what Steve couldn't. Even with more of an emphasis on Slaton's pass catching and YAC abilities he's struggling to break 100 yards a game total production.

I think he's probably just showing his true nature now. A 3rd down back that's probably being relied on too much. The #2 of a 1-2 punch.


I watched the Greatest 4th Quarters on NFLN, and Slaton was WAY quicker last year. The bulk he put on really effected his skills set. Needs to trim back up, and let someone else be the cannon ball. Damn, I had forgotten how much it hurt to watch that game. Damn you Sage.

Battle Red Flash
11-06-2009, 01:13 PM
Man you guys are silly calling for a career backup to start over one of the best young running backs in the NFL in Steve Slaton due to rough patch he has hit in 2nd season..

Slaton is leading the league in fumbles.
That's more than a rough patch. And we can all see he's not running as fast or as hard as last year. I say Moats has earned the right to start and get at least 15 touches. Play Slaton too, but if he fumbles, he sits the rest of the game.

TimeKiller
11-06-2009, 01:51 PM
With the team's woeful offensive line, why was RB such a high priority?
What? The team has constantly drafted OL since Kubiak. Slaton is the only back I can remember Kubiak taking, a 3rd, much like Winston, Spencer and totally unlike Brown the 1st round pick. They even pulled off a trade for a C. Incorrect viewpoint.

Again, please give me a single example in the history of the NFL where a rookie RB produced like Slaton did, then had everyone speculating that his team would draft another RB high the next season, or sign a high profile free agent RB.
I think most people around here wanted Andre Brown who went in the 4th round. Oh and then they ended up not drafting a RB but signing two UDFAs. If Steve is looking so far over his shoulder that he can see Arian Foster on the practice squad and JJohnson on the IR that would explain why he can't see all the guys ripping the ball out of his hand.

As for Matt Forte, he has looked sluggish and very unimpressive this season. And his rookie campaign was overrated, as well. He averaged under 4 ypc (while Slaton averaged 5 ypc). The Bears brought no one in to share the load with him, despite speculation that Kevin Jones might garner some touches. After Jones' injury, the team didn't attempt to sign another back, and has still given Forte numerous touches this year, despite his lack of production. As for goal line work, I read an incredible stat today; Forte has converted only TWO out of 19 attempts at the goal line this season. I can only imagine the hue and cry on this forum, and others as well, if Slaton had that kind of abysmal record at the goal line. I haven't read a single word of criticism about Forte from Lovie Smith or anyone else with the Bears. Btw, backup Garrett Wolfe- who was every bit as accomplished as Ryan Moats in college- has a great ypc average in limited touches behind Forte. Do you think Bears fans are demanding that Wolfe start? Yes, I know Forte doesn't have a fumbling problem, but that isn't the only problem a RB can have. Certainly his woeful ypc, total lack of production and his horrific record at the goal line should cause his coach to at least consider giving Wolfe more touches, or to bring in some real competition.
So...the Bears had no contingency plan for if Forte came back slumping and when he did it's better than the Texans' plan because the Bears organization didn't make one player unhappy as opposed to their entire fan base?

My point is that Kubiak set out to undercut his star player before this season, and before any fumbling problems began.

Your point is that Kubiak intentionally, with a full mad scientist outfit and lightning in the background and creepy music playing and everything, purposefully tried to ruin his star, rookie sensation running back. That's your point?

There is no question in my mind that Kubiak has never liked Slaton as his feature RB and was looking for any excuse to take him out of that role. The fumbles have given him a great reason.
Derp, feature running backs leading the league in fumbles. Oops. And whenever Chris Johnson finishes his year with better numbers than Slaton, that score'll be all tied up at 1.

If Kubiak relaxes and stops acting psycho every time Slaton makes a mistake, then he will eventually turn it around. He's too good a player not to do that. However, if he banishes him to the bench, or turns him into a Kevin Faulk type third down back, then Slaton's already shaken confidence will be very hard to restore. It may take a change of scenery, or a change in head coaches, but Slaton will be back if given the opportunity.
We're the crazies but you're the one telling us Slaton may need to go to another team to be successful. Or that Kubiak is the one who needs to go before Slaton plays well again. I'm starting to see a pattern here...

Booo hoooo....sniff....waaaahh....sniff....uhhuhhuhuhuh hh...booooowaaahhh....
Yeah but when the REAL Steve Slaton stands back up we'll all be welcoming him back with open arms. Running backs fumble occasionally, it happens but a problem is a problem until it's fixed. Fix your problem STEVE, quit crying about it on the message board and go play some ball!

I watched the Greatest 4th Quarters on NFLN, and Slaton was WAY quicker last year. The bulk he put on really effected his skills set. Needs to trim back up, and let someone else be the cannon ball. Damn, I had forgotten how much it hurt to watch that game. Damn you Sage.

I guess so. He still seems capable of juking guys out, maybe his speed is down a little bit but really...does any of that have to do with holding on to the footbaw?

BigBull17
11-06-2009, 02:20 PM
What? The team has constantly drafted OL since Kubiak. Slaton is the only back I can remember Kubiak taking, a 3rd, much like Winston, Spencer and totally unlike Brown the 1st round pick. They even pulled off a trade for a C. Incorrect viewpoint.

I think most people around here wanted Andre Brown who went in the 4th round. Oh and then they ended up not drafting a RB but signing two UDFAs. If Steve is looking so far over his shoulder that he can see Arian Foster on the practice squad and JJohnson on the IR that would explain why he can't see all the guys ripping the ball out of his hand.

So...the Bears had no contingency plan for if Forte came back slumping and when he did it's better than the Texans' plan because the Bears organization didn't make one player unhappy as opposed to their entire fan base?

Your point is that Kubiak intentionally, with a full mad scientist outfit and lightning in the background and creepy music playing and everything, purposefully tried to ruin his star, rookie sensation running back. That's your point?

Derp, feature running backs leading the league in fumbles. Oops. And whenever Chris Johnson finishes his year with better numbers than Slaton, that score'll be all tied up at 1.

We're the crazies but you're the one telling us Slaton may need to go to another team to be successful. Or that Kubiak is the one who needs to go before Slaton plays well again. I'm starting to see a pattern here...


Yeah but when the REAL Steve Slaton stands back up we'll all be welcoming him back with open arms. Running backs fumble occasionally, it happens but a problem is a problem until it's fixed. Fix your problem STEVE, quit crying about it on the message board and go play some ball!



I guess so. He still seems capable of juking guys out, maybe his speed is down a little bit but really...does any of that have to do with holding on to the footbaw?

No, but it effects how many people get hits on him and the type of hit. Last year, he was able to really shield himself. Now, people are getting more direct hits and gang tackles.