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TexCanada
11-01-2009, 03:53 PM
I don't think there is any way Kubes can deny Moats playing time after this performance. He looked really strong out there, getting a lot of yards after the initial hit.

I still think Slaton needs to be a big part of this offense, and we should find ways to get him the ball in space. Hopefully this benching today will send him a message.

What do you think?

SteveSlaton20
11-01-2009, 03:58 PM
moats, been saying that since that raiders game.

Jackie Chiles
11-01-2009, 03:58 PM
I ride the hot hand with Moats next week and then let Steve have his opportunities against Tenn. after the bye. Maybe he can sort out whatever is wrong with him in that time, maybe not.

Scooter
11-01-2009, 03:59 PM
moats easily. every opportunity this season, and in preseason, he and brown both have hit the holes harder, shown better vision, and obviously done better protecting the rock.

Malloy
11-01-2009, 04:00 PM
Moats first, Slaton in on occation to relieve Moats. CJ can... run for 1 yards when we need em...

I want Dayne back for goal-line yards :)

TimeKiller
11-01-2009, 04:02 PM
I think Moats laid a pretty good claim on the amount snaps being played. CB did too, with excellent situations chosen to swing the big hammer into the D. He wore on them and Moats' quickness and gritty running did the rest. Slaton can quit doing the itchy pants dance and find a nice warm seat, he may be there a minute. Moats was good on the screens today too but fewer were needed because he was getting the yards running in the lanes and hanging on to the ball. 2 things Slaton hasn't done since last year. I still think Slaton would be more effective as a pass catcher but since ball security has gone right out the window I'm glad to see Kubiak sitting him down. Should've happened a few games ago for my taste.

TheIronDuke
11-01-2009, 04:02 PM
Moats. He doesn't dance in the backfield like Slaton's been doing. And all of a sudden we can run the ball. I'd give Slaton the Reggie Bush decoy position. Can't trust Slaton with the ball anymore.

Hagar
11-01-2009, 04:02 PM
Slaton's stat line today:

1 play
1 yard
1 fumble

I'll take Moats please.

Kimmy
11-01-2009, 04:04 PM
Moats = game ball(s) .. of steel

TexCanada
11-01-2009, 04:06 PM
I really think this is going to be a turning point in Slaton's career, but which way he turns is up to him. Either he re-groups and comes back with something to prove and earns his playing time back, or he continues to struggle and start to exclude him from our playbook. Hopefully he fixes this, because we could be a very dangerous team if Slaton and Moats can both play well.

Lucky
11-01-2009, 04:15 PM
The real question for next week is, will the o-line control the line of scrimmage. If so, it won't really matter who is the RB. And the Texans will need to run the ball effectively on the Colts, in order to slow the pass rush and keep Manning off the field.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 04:17 PM
RBBC without a doubt. Keep the defenses guessing.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 04:17 PM
I really think this is going to be a turning point in Slaton's career, but which way he turns is up to him. Either he re-groups and comes back with something to prove and earns his playing time back, or he continues to struggle and start to exclude him from our playbook. Hopefully he fixes this, because we could be a very dangerous team if Slaton and Moats can both play well.

Agreed. This is the point in Slaton's career, due to the short career a RB usually has, that he has to show whether or not he is an NFL starting RB or nothing more than a 3rd down back. Can he be a Warrick Dunn or Tiki Barber type RB or is he more like Michael Bennet, a guy that had a few good years as a starter but couldn't keep it up and became just a 3rd down back?

Lucky
11-01-2009, 04:21 PM
...he has to show whether or not he is an NFL starting RB or nothing more than a 3rd down back. Can he be a Warrick Dunn or Tiki Barber type RB...
Should be noted that Barber was fumble prone until the last 3 years of his career.

Livid13
11-01-2009, 04:23 PM
You know, I was expecting Slaton to have a great year, as I'm sure some of you were. Moats finished ALL of his runs and Steve simply doesn't do that. Moats was fighting for those extra yards on every single play. Go with Moats and hopefully he stays in today's form. I think putting Slaton out in space as a wideout wouldn't necessarily suck....

PapaL
11-01-2009, 04:24 PM
Should be noted that Barber was fumble prone until the last 3 years of his career.

Seeing Slaton on sidelines reminded me of that. Gotta change the way he's holding the rock. Call Tiki.

Scooter
11-01-2009, 04:31 PM
Should be noted that Barber was fumble prone until the last 3 years of his career.

and all he did was something very simple - changed the angle he held the ball. for most of his career tiki held the ball at a 90* (degree) angle, which is how slaton's carrying the ball - on his side at 90*'s. when you watch moats and brown, and tiki late in his career it's a 45* angle protected by elbow and bicep and shoulder. something moats is also doing exceptionally better right now is "running behind his pads". slaton's standing up waiting for a push or juke, instead of running with eyes up and pads down.

DexmanC
11-01-2009, 04:35 PM
Slaton is having the SAME TYPE OF SEASON Jacoby Jones did
last year. It's his second year, and sophomore slumps do exist.
He may or may not get out of it by the end of the season. If he
does, it only helps.

spurstexanstros
11-01-2009, 04:35 PM
Slaton is no doubt..especially if OD is down. Slaton is too explosive to beon bench.

nunusguy
11-01-2009, 04:37 PM
One things for sure, it can't be Slaton if he keeps putting the ball on the ground.

eriadoc
11-01-2009, 04:38 PM
The real question for next week is, will the o-line control the line of scrimmage. If so, it won't really matter who is the RB. And the Texans will need to run the ball effectively on the Colts, in order to slow the pass rush and keep Manning off the field.

The OL looks a lot better when Moats has been in there. TBH, they've looked better when Chris Brown has been in there. CB doesn't get negative plays too often. Slaton does.

Scooter
11-01-2009, 04:47 PM
The OL looks a lot better when Moats has been in there. TBH, they've looked better when Chris Brown has been in there. CB doesn't get negative plays too often. Slaton does.

they really have looked so much better with both brown and moats there because the majority of our line's movement is downhill. though that's not to say our run blocking has been bad with slaton in the backfield because similar to the david carr chicken/egg - slaton's missing very clean lanes. even the pitches and spread runs with brown and moats are leading forward with the line, and relying on tightends and vonta to spring the run. the blocking with slaton is so much trying to split the defense and occupy levels, as opposed to a more immediate impact zone push.

Lucky
11-01-2009, 04:49 PM
The OL looks a lot better when Moats has been in there.
You're looking at a small sample size. Slaton has not played well, that's obvious. But, he's not responsible for plays getting blown up in the backfield, either. Slaton made a great run in the Niner game, just to get back to the LOS.

Fact: The Texans ran the ball effectively for the 1st time this season.

Fact: The Texans were facing the worst run defense in the NFL.

Speculation: Moats is the answer at RB.

Speculation: The Texans rushing woes are behind them.

TexCanada
11-01-2009, 05:03 PM
You're looking at a small sample size. Slaton has not played well, that's obvious. But, he's not responsible for plays getting blown up in the backfield, either. Slaton made a great run in the Niner game, just to get back to the LOS.

Fact: The Texans ran the ball effectively for the 1st time this season.

Fact: The Texans were facing the worst run defense in the NFL.

Speculation: Moats is the answer at RB.

Speculation: The Texans rushing woes are behind them.

Amen to that. The Bills have a terrible run defense, and while I take no credit away from Moats for his performance, he still needs to prove he can do it against good teams. That being said, I hope that he gets the chance to prove himself next week against the colts.

I still think Slaton needs to be in there catching screen passes in order for us to be successful.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 05:07 PM
If Kubiak's comments to 610 mean anything, he has not given up on Slaton. He gave accolades to Moats for a GREAT game, but he also knows what many of us think--Steve Slaton is an integral part of the offense because of his shiftiness and his speed. According to Kubiak, the depth chart has not yet changed.

Dread-Head
11-01-2009, 05:08 PM
being taken out of the game might give Stevo something to think about...he'll be okay in his next start.

TheIronDuke
11-01-2009, 05:10 PM
He was supposed to be OK for this game but fumbled the first time his hands touched the ball. Moats earned the right to start and I'd stick with the hot hand unless he starts fumbling like crazy.

jjjezebel
11-01-2009, 05:13 PM
I appreciate Kubiak's idea of sitting out Slaton after that horrendous fumble. A little "Humble Pie" never did anyone any permanent damage. I still think that Slaton has the capability of being a really great player, but when he effs it up, he's got to pay for it.

Still, Moats totally came into the game and took it over. He looked fantastic. If Kubiak's idea of going forward is to play Moats over Slaton, I wouldn't blame him one bit.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 05:17 PM
As painful as it was to my fantasy team, Kubiak handled the situation perfectly by benching Slaton. Make him earn his opportunities by proving he can protect the football in practice, then slowly work him back into the offensive scheme in a committee approach.

His fumbling is unquestionably a huge problem, but it's just as problematic to have a proven playmaker sitting on the bench. Kubes and Shanahan have to figure out a way to get him the ball and restore his confidence without putting victories at risk.

Wolf
11-01-2009, 05:18 PM
Amen to that. The Bills have a terrible run defense, and while I take no credit away from Moats for his performance, he still needs to prove he can do it against good teams. That being said, I hope that he gets the chance to prove himself next week against the colts.

I still think Slaton needs to be in there catching screen passes in order for us to be successful.

agreed and add a 2 to 1 time of possession the Texans had really helped ..

It was nice!

redwhiteANDblue
11-01-2009, 05:23 PM
I'm sticking with Ryan! Like I said before, just give the guy a chance and he'll show us what he can do. I'm not saying Slaton is bad, but his fumbles are possibly the cause of our losses.

Lucky
11-01-2009, 05:40 PM
I'm not saying Slaton is bad, but his fumbles are possibly the cause of our losses.
Slaton didn't fumble against either the Jags nor the Cards.

ziggy29
11-01-2009, 05:44 PM
If Kubiak's comments to 610 mean anything, he has not given up on Slaton. He gave accolades to Moats for a GREAT game, but he also knows what many of us think--Steve Slaton is an integral part of the offense because of his shiftiness and his speed. According to Kubiak, the depth chart has not yet changed.
It shouldn't change on the basis of one game. But one thing is clear. Stevo has to be hearing footsteps and if this motivates him to take better care of the football if he wants to remain the featured back, so much the better.

But I'd expect Moats to get quite a few more touches than in the past. After what he did today, it would almost be criminal to not reward his performance today with more carries than usual (before today).

Hervoyel
11-01-2009, 05:45 PM
You sit Steve Slaton for now. His fumbling clearly outweighs the benefits of having him in there and all you can do about it is work with him. Clearly this isn't improving so you start Moats for as long as he continues to produce and let Slaton step back from the starters position for a little while. Sometimes guys need to sit down and get their head straightened out. What Slaton is dealing with is mostly mental so let him sit down.

At the beginning of the season nothing in the running game was working well. The blocking wasn't there and the running backs weren't taking advantage of what little there was to be had. In the following weeks things improved but for whatever reason Slaton never did get on track. Brown would come in and spell him and start making some yards. We all could see that. The fumbles (from both Slaton and Brown) kind of took center stage but it's obvious that the reason our running game has sucked ass is because of the back and not the blocking. I'm not saying he's not going to overcome this. I'm just saying that he isn't going to play through this. Not if we plan on winning more than half our games. Moats wasn't available earlier because of his turf toe but he's apparently back now. Let him take the starting job and hold it as long as he can. Maybe in the meantime Slaton will work on his fumbling some more and shake off whatever has been wrong with him.

Then he can come back hungry and recapture that spot.

TexCanada
11-01-2009, 05:49 PM
You sit Steve Slaton for now. His fumbling clearly outweighs the benefits of having him in there and all you can do about it is work with him. Clearly this isn't improving so you start Moats for as long as he continues to produce and let Slaton step back from the starters position for a little while. Sometimes guys need to sit down and get their head straightened out. What Slaton is dealing with is mostly mental so let him sit down.

At the beginning of the season nothing in the running game was working well. The blocking wasn't there and the running backs weren't taking advantage of what little there was to be had. In the following weeks things improved but for whatever reason Slaton never did get on track. Brown would come in and spell him and start making some yards. We all could see that. The fumbles (from both Slaton and Brown) kind of took center stage but it's obvious that the reason our running game has sucked ass is because of the back and not the blocking. I'm not saying he's not going to overcome this. I'm just saying that he isn't going to play through this. Not if we plan on winning more than half our games. Moats wasn't available earlier because of his turf toe but he's apparently back now. Let him take the starting job and hold it as long as he can. Maybe in the meantime Slaton will work on his fumbling some more and shake off whatever has been wrong with him.

Then he can come back hungry and recapture that spot.

Well said!

ATXtexanfan
11-01-2009, 05:51 PM
slaton should start, leash is short though

Wolf6151
11-01-2009, 05:57 PM
Slaton fumbled and was deservedly benched. Moats ran the ball very well and it was an impressive performance and Moats deserves the start next week as well. Before we go and name Moats the permanent starter and the answer to our running problems lets remember that the Bills are the 30th ranked D against the run and our O-line was finally able to open some huge holes for Moats to run through today. If Slaton had been in the game he would have run for 100+ yds. today as well. Next week against the Colts D should be a much better test of our O-line and running game and we'll see if Moats is our starter of the future.

Today was a prime example of why we need a much better O-line. We're not going to be playing the 30th ranked Defense every week so we've got to get better on the O-line.

Maddict5
11-01-2009, 05:59 PM
great game by moats but you cant emphasise how bad the bills are v the run. if slaton keeps putting balls on the floor, its no decision

Lucky
11-01-2009, 06:01 PM
...it's obvious that the reason our running game has sucked ass is because of the back and not the blocking.
Not that obvious to me. When 14.7% of your rushing play (http://www.profootballweekly.com/nfl/statistics/teams/)s get zero or negative yards, the blocking gets their share of the blame.

It's obvious that the Texans rushing attack looked better today. Just as it's obvious that the Bills have a very poor run defense. Just as it's obvious that Slaton is fumbling too often. Much too often. So Moats deserves to take some of Slaton's touches.

Eventually, the Texans will need Steve Slaton to be Steve Slaton. And they will need the offensive line to block as well as they did today. I've always felt that the Texans needed another back to share the load with Slaton. Maybe Moats can be that back. But for the Texans to beat the better teams, they will need production (and some big plays) out of Slaton.

TheRealJoker
11-01-2009, 06:23 PM
Now is a good time for the coaches to have confidence in another back. We're gonna need to run the ball a lot and run it well in Indy to keep Peyton off the field.

swtbound07
11-01-2009, 06:27 PM
slaton did it all last year...moats had a great GAME. This is knee jerk at its finest.

Ryan
11-01-2009, 06:30 PM
I don't want to see Slaton's face for a while. Moats took the role and ran away with it...literally. He had a better performance today than Slaton has done all year. You also have to take into consideration that Slaton has also faced his fair share of piss poor run defenses, and did NOTHING with it. He will be a very good 3rd down back till he gets his act together, but i really don't want to see him until the MNF game, at the least.

Marcus
11-01-2009, 06:34 PM
slaton did it all last year...moats had a great GAME. This is knee jerk at its finest.

So, you like to dwell on the past. They got pills for that. Let us know when you want to join the what-have-you-done-for-me-lately crowd.

gtexan02
11-01-2009, 06:38 PM
Slaton's fumbling has turned into a big problem.
Moats ran well against the worst run defense in the league.

I dont think we "know" anything yet

triplethreat
11-01-2009, 06:40 PM
Move Slaton out to WR and start Moats at the HB. I actually think that Slaton would be much more effective as a Wide Reciever in the slot as a speed guy. Just my opinion though, he is pretty good at getting those screens and turning up field with them, so I just think he would be a solid slot guy.

Wolf
11-01-2009, 06:40 PM
Slaton's fumbling has turned into a big problem.
Moats ran well against the worst run defense in the league.

I dont think we "know" anything yet

exactly

not taking anything away from moats, he did his job and did it well today

Scooter
11-01-2009, 06:41 PM
slaton did it all last year...moats had a great GAME. This is knee jerk at its finest.

and including preseason, slaton HASNT done it in 12 straight games. my reflexes are bad, but i dont think this is knee jerk.

Marcus
11-01-2009, 06:41 PM
As painful as it was to my fantasy team . . .

I think Mailman just got to the heart of the matter as to why some people are still defending Slaton. :thinking:

Lucky
11-01-2009, 06:48 PM
I think Mailman just got to the heart of the matter as to why some people are still defending Slaton. :thinking:
I think Slaton's "defenders" remember Steve playing well for more than one game.

Maybe Slaton will go Steve Sax and never solve his problem. Maybe Moats will turn this career game into a trend. What's likely, though?

Texan4Ever
11-01-2009, 06:52 PM
I personally would like to see Slaton, Moats, and Brown split carries (the most carries going to whoever is on "fire"). If we can get Slaton to calm done and just run hard instead of trying to do too much then that would be great and I am hoping that Moats can continue what he's done today against the Bills throughout the season.

Having two reliable RBs would be good and I am hopefull that Slaton can get his act together and peform at the level he did last year. As for Moats, he deserves some serious credit for stepping his game up.

On a side note, Brian Cushing is one hell of a player, sorry I doubted your abilities man but I'm glad your a Texan!

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2009, 06:56 PM
If Kubiak's comments to 610 mean anything, he has not given up on Slaton. He gave accolades to Moats for a GREAT game, but he also knows what many of us think--Steve Slaton is an integral part of the offense because of his shiftiness and his speed. According to Kubiak, the depth chart has not yet changed.

being taken out of the game might give Stevo something to think about...he'll be okay in his next start.

After all the fumbles, that's sending the wrong message to him and the team.

Scooter
11-01-2009, 06:57 PM
I think Slaton's "defenders" remember Steve playing well for more than one game.

Maybe Slaton will go Steve Sax and never solve his problem. Maybe Moats will turn this career game into a trend. What's likely, though?

what's LIKELY doesnt change what IS. and the reality right now is that slaton cant find the holes, doesnt hit them when he does, and has put the ball on the ground 7 times in 8 games. slaton's "defenders" havent made it to the 2009 season yet.

Maddict5
11-01-2009, 06:57 PM
it's obvious that the reason our running game has sucked ass is because of the back and not the blocking.

i think its obvious that its the other way round

Fox
11-01-2009, 06:59 PM
Let him take the starting job and hold it as long as he can. Maybe in the meantime Slaton will work on his fumbling some more and shake off whatever has been wrong with him.


Don't agree with the part about our running problems being due to the back and not the blocking, but definitely agree with this part. Moats had enough opportunities and looked good enough today for me to want to see how he does with a chance against a better run D next week. I'd like to see Slaton in a 3DRB role in the mean time, give him some opportunities on screens and draws - put him in an opportunity to have success without having to worry about carrying the load. I still think that our offense isn't nearly as explosive without a healthy dose of Slaton, but he's struggling trying to work through these issues and both he and our T.O. ratio might benefit from a few weeks of a reduced role.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 07:09 PM
Well, the message was sent today when SS got benched for the remainder of the game. His teammates know what he brings to the offense.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 07:10 PM
what's LIKELY doesnt change what IS. and the reality right now is that slaton cant find the holes, doesnt hit them when he does, and has put the ball on the ground 7 times in 8 games. slaton's "defenders" havent made it to the 2009 season yet.

Not in the running game but he's a weapon as a receiver out of the backfield.

Mr teX
11-01-2009, 07:58 PM
Great call by Kubes sitting Slaton. He has to learn that his fumbles have major consequences. For it not for his today, Buffalo wouldn't have sniffed the end zone today. I still think slaton needs to be our go-to guy, but moats earned many more touches today. Maybe we accidentally found our 2 backs in Slaton and Moats instead of Slaton and Brown. Maybe we can finally go ahead and put Brown out to pasture.

PHAROAH
11-01-2009, 07:58 PM
Look Slaton has proven to me that he is the better back and no one on this sight would be talking about Ryan Moats like he is the savior this time last season. Slaton is going through a rough patch all players do at some point, but to say he should lose the starting job due to Ryan Moats the best game of his career is absolutly stupid to hear IMO. Steve Slaton is to good & to explosive to come off the bench for this team to get into the playoffs this seaon.

I Like the fact that we found another option to Steve Slaton and to have another back capable of coming and taking carries as chris brown has proven he can be on the goalline and will loose the game in the clutch with fumbles at 6'2" 230 pounds. I am all for that but to put this guy in front of Slaton based off of one game is stupid to me. Ryan Moats was a bust in philadelphia as a 3rd round pick and he couldn't get on the field to at least take carriers away from Brian Westbrook as a backup, now everyone wants to give him the starting job after one game unreal.

Wolf
11-01-2009, 08:02 PM
I don't think it is actually Moats taking the carries away , it is more of Slaton giving up the carries because he can't hold onto the rock for what the 6th game in a row?

Mailman
11-01-2009, 08:05 PM
I don't think it is actually Moats taking the carries away , it is more of Slaton giving up the carries because he can't hold onto the rock for what the 6th game in a row?

I have no problem with Slaton losing at least half his touches to Moats because imo Moats can get the job done between the tackles, but I do not agree with those who want Slaton on the bench. His ball protection is a big problem, but that's a risk you have to take with a player of his caliber. He is too much of a threat to not be used, and he went an entire season in '08 without being a huge liability in the fumbling department.

PHAROAH
11-01-2009, 08:07 PM
Look guys teams are scheming to take away slaton due to the success he had in the running game last season, tell me what team will scheme for Ryan Moats who had his best game of his career running the ball. Steve Slaton had 100 receiving and 2 TD's against a good San Francisco Defense and you guys want to bench for Ryan Moats who is a good #2 back at best. Yes Steve Slaton is struggling but he will come out of it he has proven it over his 2 year career that he is too important to this team than Ryan Moats who is a nothing more than a 2nd or 3rd option.

Brisco_County
11-01-2009, 08:12 PM
I expect to see a 60/40 split favoring Moats, and giving Slaton the opportunity to earn back the 60 share.

Hervoyel
11-01-2009, 08:13 PM
slaton did it all last year...moats had a great GAME. This is knee jerk at its finest.

After 8 weeks of almost non-existent production on the ground and fumbles seemingly every week it is not a knee-jerk reaction. You can only do that for so long in the NFL before somebody else who may be less capable but who is also more reliable takes your spot.

Slaton needs the bench time. This is a good thing. I don't think anybody believes he's done and that Ryan Moats is the long-term replacement/answer.

gtexan02
11-01-2009, 08:15 PM
I think the best move by Kubiak at this point is to give them 50/50 split for the first few quarters and go with who is producing. No reason to limit ourselves offensively. Put Slaton in on 3rd and longs and put Moats in to start, otherwise split up 50/50

Scooter
11-01-2009, 08:15 PM
I don't think it is actually Moats taking the carries away , it is more of Slaton giving up the carries because he can't hold onto the rock for what the 6th game in a row?

that's exactly it. slaton's a very explosive player and this season seems to be most comfortable in space when motioned to receiver or as a screen receiver. that has zip, zero, diddly squat to do with taking a handoff and running between the tackles - something he's failed to do this season. nor does it offset the fumbles.

jshabang
11-01-2009, 08:15 PM
two things here.......

number one is the fumbling......and its half way thru the season and its not getting any better....he's been benched before, it didnt work........kubes has had talks about him cleaning it up, it didnt work....if anything its gettin worse.....so we have got to get this fixed or his explosiveness wont even matter come nov and december when we are in a playoff push and gotta pull one out to get in the playoffs and we are in a dogfight that goes to the wire.....

number two is he is not running the ball well either.......moats runs behind the same line and he had 3 rushing tds on the ground and looked shot out of a cannon on most plays......so that says that it at least has something to say about slatons vision and dancing behind the line this year.....slaton has not even had 1 100 yard rushing game this season...thats very problematic because when these games get tougher and we gotta hold on to a lead late in a game we will need him to do this as well...both of these can come to haunt us at some point this season so we have got to get them fixed and fast

that being said slaton is the definition of a playmaker.....and the nfl doesnt have alot of them.......he can score from anywhere on the football field so its almost impossible to sit him for good or cut him or something......hes to young and talented and some other team would salivate to have him and coach him up so to speak as you would have a star.......

so what do we do.......?????????....IMHO we use him and moats......same system and if steve needs to sit at some point do it...but he has got to get this stuff fixed cause i can see the texans going down to the wire trying to make the playoffs and we will need stevie wonder to win

PHAROAH
11-01-2009, 08:22 PM
I think it should be 60/40 to Steve Slaton not Ryan Moats who just stepped up in his 2 years with the Texans, now he was the hot hand in the game the Texans went with him as they should. Steve Slaton has proven he is the key to our running game not a guy who just stepped up for the first time in his career in 5 seasons over a guy who was key contirbutor from day in the Texans Organization. I'm not sure how many of you guys actually played the game but would you guys be saying this if Andre Johnson was going through a rough patch? Steve Slaton will bounce back in the next game I have no doubt about it, but I don't want to hear you guys who want him on the bench saying I knew he was the man for the job when he was in a slump and when he break loose you are all on his team. Stick with him give him shot to prove he is still the guy and not dump him when the career back up step in and play the game of his career.

PHAROAH
11-01-2009, 08:29 PM
Man some of you guys drop your mother if she was having a rough patch and wasn't cooking as good as she normally prepare the meals. Look I'm for a 2 back system and that has proven to be the best way to go for most teams, but Steve Slaton shouldn't be coming off the bench and he should still get 60% of the carriers. Sure the guy has fumbled and has struggled in the running tell me what good running back hasn't? Now since all of you guys are pumping up Ryan Moats as the starting back since when has he done what Steve Slaton has done on a consistant basis other than this one game?

Mr teX
11-01-2009, 08:50 PM
Man some of you guys drop your mother if she was having a rough patch and wasn't cooking as good as she normally prepare the meals. Look I'm for a 2 back system and that has proven to be the best way to go for most teams, but Steve Slaton shouldn't be coming off the bench and he should still get 60% of the carriers. Sure the guy has fumbled and has struggled in the running tell me what good running back hasn't? Now since all of you guys are pumping up Ryan Moats as the starting back since when has he done what Steve Slaton has done on a consistant basis other than this one game?

Moats hasn't REALLY had a viable opportunity until now. In philly, he was behind Westbrook, & Buckhalter. Why in the hell would he take touches from all-everything westbrook? especially if westbrook doesn't have any problems running or catching the ball. Furthermore, Andy reid likes to throw the ball 60-75% of the time; he doesn't care if he runs the ball.

Kubes actually wants to run the ball, but hasn't been able to. Today he got a real opportunity to show what he can do when kubes was trying to eat clock & he flourished. You cant take that away from the kid.

m5kwatts
11-01-2009, 09:18 PM
Moats looks like he's gotten a hell of a lot better since he's been a Texan.

Lets not forget about these backs:

DeAngelo Williams
Ryan Grant
Cedric Benson

What do the have in common? They looked like just your average back for their first few years in the league and flipped a switch and became dominant.

Could Moats be in this company?

swtbound07
11-01-2009, 09:39 PM
how many yards and touchdowns did slaton have last week? Seemed like a lot for a guy who hasn't done anything yet this year.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 09:41 PM
how many yards and touchdowns did slaton have last week? Seemed like a lot for a guy who hasn't done anything yet this year.

Not to mention the fact that the team was able to overcome the turnovers and win both last week and today.

Spled
11-01-2009, 09:45 PM
Hard to sit a guy down after 3 touchdowns, but Slaton still has the best big play ability of our 3 backs.

SAMURAITEXAN
11-01-2009, 09:52 PM
I say, give Moats to start next game and give Slaton a chance to redeem himself to start. Slaton is a weapon out from backfield and we need this kind of play to have a chance to beat the Colts. (Slaton receiving averages what more than 10yrds and mostly from line of scrimmage? We need to use this to our advantage! Just don't loose that ball Steve!)

Go Texans and beat the Colts!!!

TexanSam
11-01-2009, 09:54 PM
how many yards and touchdowns did slaton have last week? Seemed like a lot for a guy who hasn't done anything yet this year.

how well has slaton actually ran the ball this season? he's done well in the passing game, and the texans should still utilize him in that regard, but it should be Moats job to lose after today's game.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 09:56 PM
Hard to sit a guy down after 3 touchdowns, but Slaton still has the best big play ability of our 3 backs.

Which is probably why Kubiak said in his postgame interview with Rich Lord that the depth chart hasn't changed on the basis of today's game.

Nawzer
11-01-2009, 10:00 PM
Moats because I have a cool nickname for him: Ryan "The Speedboat" Moats.

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2009, 10:02 PM
Which is probably why Kubiak said in his postgame interview with Rich Lord that the depth chart hasn't changed on the basis of today's game.


.....................or to keep the Colts guessing.........

HTown2ATX
11-01-2009, 10:03 PM
I've been wanting to see more of Moats for a while now to be honest. Still got love for Slaton, but he is putting it on the carpet way too damn much!!

I know that Chris Brown had a decent game, but I don't like seeing him in there anymore. I would rearrange the depth at RB at least for the IND game to be:

1- Moats
2- Slaton
3- Chris Brown

Goal Line and Short yardage VONTA LEACH baby!! (the guy is a freaking animal and I think we ought to be using him more as a power back type)

Hell, I'm only on beer 2 right now (just dropped my daughter off) but in Goal Line situations and short yardage, I'd almost wanna see Mario at FB clearing space for Vonta at RB. :specnatz:

checo446
11-01-2009, 10:11 PM
Amen to that. The Bills have a terrible run defense, and while I take no credit away from Moats for his performance, he still needs to prove he can do it against good teams. That being said, I hope that he gets the chance to prove himself next week against the colts.

I still think Slaton needs to be in there catching screen passes in order for us to be successful.

Additionally, almost all of Moats production occurred in the second half of the game when the Bills defense was completely gassed. Texans offense time of possession was over 39 minutes and that had a significant effect along with Schobel getting hurt in the second half for Moats to find very clear running lanes.. Not taking anything away from Moats production, but something to consider before people jump on the Moats bandwagon as the RB heir apparent...

GuerillaBlack
11-01-2009, 10:25 PM
Moats looks like he's gotten a hell of a lot better since he's been a Texan.

Lets not forget about these backs:

DeAngelo Williams
Ryan Grant
Cedric Benson

What do the have in common? They looked like just your average back for their first few years in the league and flipped a switch and became dominant.

Could Moats be in this company?

Maybe.

DeAngelo had over 700 yards rushing his rookie season. Ryan Grant didn't even play his first year, but his second (first year with Green Bay), he had over 900 yards. Cedric Benson is your best example.

CTWade
11-01-2009, 10:27 PM
Does it have to be either/or? I, for one, hope to see more of both of them. Slaton as a receiver if nothing else.

Please, though, somebody put some superglue on Steve's gloves.

silvrhand
11-01-2009, 10:30 PM
Additionally, almost all of Moats production occurred in the second half of the game when the Bills defense was completely gassed. Texans offense time of possession was over 39 minutes and that had a significant effect along with Schobel getting hurt in the second half for Moats to find very clear running lanes.. Not taking anything away from Moats production, but something to consider before people jump on the Moats bandwagon as the RB heir apparent...

Slaton all year has been hopping around and never hit the hole as hard as Moats did today, he found small creases made his cut and moved the ball. First contact and he was getting 3 additional yards. This is an attitude you have when running the ball, this isn't about the defense being gased.

He averaged 5 yards a carry through the game. Call it what you want, but I'll take it every week, the ZBS should be just like denver give me a decent one cut back that can hit the hole and go. How many RB's did Denver go through, and 85% of them were productive.

swtbound07
11-01-2009, 10:40 PM
how well has slaton actually ran the ball this season? he's done well in the passing game, and the texans should still utilize him in that regard, but it should be Moats job to lose after today's game.

No, it shouldn't. Kubiak shouldn't have yanked slaton all game after one carry. He probably would have had another 140 yard 2td game between rushing and receiving. Why is everyone thinking Ryan freaking moats is the second coming. Off of one freaking game. I know nobody likes fumbles but jesus, does anybody remember last week? People screaming Slaton as he scored repeatedly? Last year when everybody was all on the bandwagon? Again I say, Ron Dayne had a good sunday against the colts...didn't make him a great running back.

Hervoyel
11-01-2009, 10:45 PM
An older guy I work with and sometimes talk Texans football with came over to my office when we signed Moats back in 2007 and told me he was friends with Ryan's father and had watched him play since he was a little kid. He of course told me that Moats was "special" and I really kind of wrote it off as somebody just talking about someone they know and thinking more highly of them than was merited because they knew that guy. I have seen him play ok since he got here in limited duty but I haven't seen him run the ball like he did yesterday. Right now I'm inclined to believe that much of what we saw was the Bills horrible run defense but at the same time I think that Steve Slaton needs time to step back and work on his fundamentals. I think that Brown and Moats can fill in for him while he does this. It's not like we haven't been winning games without much of a running attack lately anyway. What's the worst that can happen? We drop down under 100 yards per game rushing? Oh wait, we already were doing that with Slaton.

Here's a question though. As m5kwatts already mentioned it's not like he was going to beat Westbrook out of a job in Philadelphia. Then he was picked up by the Cardinals who run the ball like crap anyway and is behind their backs. We pick him up and he's behind Dayne and Green, then Green and Slaton.

So what do we do if next week he runs all over the Colts? Just a hypothetical question there. Forget about who starts and all that stuff and just assume that this game today translates into more touches for Ryan Moats next week against the Colts. If he generates yards in the 4-5 ypc range then what next? Maybe he's not Steve Slaton fast but if he's got the necessary ability to run effectively in this system then maybe he's found a home.

swtbound07
11-01-2009, 10:49 PM
An older guy I work with and sometimes talk Texans football with came over to my office when we signed Moats back in 2007 and told me he was friends with Ryan's father and had watched him play since he was a little kid. He of course told me that Moats was "special" and I really kind of wrote it off as somebody just talking about someone they know and thinking more highly of them than was merited because they knew that guy. I have seen him play ok since he got here in limited duty but I haven't seen him run the ball like he did yesterday. Right now I'm inclined to believe that much of what we saw was the Bills horrible run defense but at the same time I think that Steve Slaton needs time to step back and work on his fundamentals. I think that Brown and Moats can fill in for him while he does this. It's not like we haven't been winning games without much of a running attack lately anyway. What's the worst that can happen? We drop down under 100 yards per game rushing? Oh wait, we already were doing that with Slaton.

Here's a question though. As m5kwatts already mentioned it's not like he was going to beat Westbrook out of a job in Philadelphia. Then he was picked up by the Cardinals who run the ball like crap anyway and is behind their backs. We pick him up and he's behind Dayne and Green, then Green and Slaton.

So what do we do if next week he runs all over the Colts? Just a hypothetical question there. Forget about who starts and all that stuff and just assume that this game today translates into more touches for Ryan Moats next week against the Colts. If he generates yards in the 4-5 ypc range then what next? Maybe he's not Steve Slaton fast but if he's got the necessary ability to run effectively in this system then maybe he's found a home.

I'm fine with him having a home. I'd be happy to debate the merits of where he should rank on our depth chart. What i don't like is the annointing of Moats as the starter after one game. Its like this fanbase has no memory. If he blows up the colts next week on a rotating basis with slaton, then absolutely we might have found that complementary back for a RBBC that we've been searching for. Maybe. Too small a body of work to really say though.

Hervoyel
11-01-2009, 10:57 PM
I'm fine with him having a home. I'd be happy to debate the merits of where he should rank on our depth chart. What i don't like is the annointing of Moats as the starter after one game. Its like this fanbase has no memory. If he blows up the colts next week on a rotating basis with slaton, then absolutely we might have found that complementary back for a RBBC that we've been searching for. Maybe. Too small a body of work to really say though.


He's being "annointed" the starter after one great game of his and essentially 8 really lousy games from Slaton. At least in my case I think Slaton would benefit from a brief sit down and opportunity to collect himself. Lots of guys get temporarily benched and I don't see any reason to spare Steve Slaton this. Nobody thinks he's not play maker. Everyone understands that sitting him takes that away from the team. I think it's almost universally a temporary idea. What else can you do? The guy fumbles weekly. He's killing us with the turnovers. A few are understandable but damn. He's coughing it up at an amazing pace. There's something to be said for reliable. Hopefully he can get this under control and get back to that.

Mailman
11-01-2009, 11:06 PM
He's being "annointed" the starter after one great game of his and essentially 8 really lousy games from Slaton.

Really? Entering this week's slate of games, Slaton was ranked seventh in the NFL in yards from scrimmage w/ 645. He's scored five TDs this year. That's lousy?

Lots of guys get temporarily benched and I don't see any reason to spare Steve Slaton this. Nobody thinks he's not play maker. Everyone understands that sitting him takes that away from the team. I think it's almost universally a temporary idea. What else can you do? The guy fumbles weekly. He's killing us with the turnovers. A few are understandable but damn. He's coughing it up at an amazing pace. There's something to be said for reliable. Hopefully he can get this under control and get back to that.

Turnovers are BAD, but he's not killing us with them. The team is still 5-3 despite his problem holding on to the football.

Mr teX
11-01-2009, 11:06 PM
No, it shouldn't. Kubiak shouldn't have yanked slaton all game after one carry. He probably would have had another 140 yard 2td game between rushing and receiving. Why is everyone thinking Ryan freaking moats is the second coming. Off of one freaking game. I know nobody likes fumbles but jesus, does anybody remember last week? People screaming Slaton as he scored repeatedly? Last year when everybody was all on the bandwagon? Again I say, Ron Dayne had a good sunday against the colts...didn't make him a great running back.

It's not been just 1 carry. It's been an epidemic of fumbling this year from him & i personally didn't have a problem with kubes sitting him for the rest of the game. He made a statement to the young man. We can win without you.

swtbound07
11-01-2009, 11:20 PM
It's not been just 1 carry. It's been an epidemic of fumbling this year from him & i personally didn't have a problem with kubes sitting him for the rest of the game. He made a statement to the young man. We can win without you.

Yeah...lets ride that horse for the next 8 games and see where we wind up.
I'm still fully on the Slaton bandwagon.

Hervoyel
11-01-2009, 11:30 PM
Really? Entering this week's slate of games, Slaton was ranked seventh in the NFL in yards from scrimmage w/ 645. He's scored five TDs this year. That's lousy? Turnovers are BAD, but he's not killing us with them. The team is still 5-3 despite his problem holding on to the football.

It's great that he's a threat out of the backfield. Nowhere in here have I even implied that Slaton isn't a play maker. 645 yards from scrimmage is good stuff but come on now. Don't be intentionally obtuse about this. 3.1 yards per carry is not getting it done. This season Steve Slaton is hardly a credible threat on the ground. He's great with the screens and catching the ball out of the backfield but he's crap running the ball in 2009 so far.

He's scored 5 TD's this year but he's handed the ball over to the other team 5 times too. Turnovers are bad. They kill drives, cost us a chance to score, give the momentum up to other team, and hurt our chances of winning. The thing about the turnover battle is that it can take on a life of its own. You get a team coughing the ball up and then pretty soon everybody's worried about coughing the ball up. What happens? People start coughing the ball up.

If Matt Schaub doesn't throw that pic-six we stand a chance of winning the Arizona game. If Chris Brown doesn't fumble in the end zone we tie it.

Ok, so those aren't Slaton's mistakes but any of his many mistakes could be as significant as either of those. At the rate he's going it's just about inevitable that he finds a way to cost us a game unless this gets worked out. I say let him work it out in practice and let Brown and Moats fill in for his devastating 3.1 yards per carry.

Hervoyel
11-01-2009, 11:33 PM
Yeah...lets ride that horse for the next 8 games and see where we wind up.
I'm still fully on the Slaton bandwagon.

How about we ride it for one more game and see where we wind up? It's not like we have to freeze Steve Slaton in a block of ice next Sunday. If Moats comes in and runs all over the Colts cool. If he's getting nothing then it's not like you can't put Slaton back in again.

infantrycak
11-02-2009, 12:06 AM
How about we ride it for one more game and see where we wind up? It's not like we have to freeze Steve Slaton in a block of ice next Sunday. If Moats comes in and runs all over the Colts cool. If he's getting nothing then it's not like you can't put Slaton back in again.

I don't really see the argument against this and I see Slaton as more of a starting RB. Start Moats and work Slaton in. If they feel he is a better receiving threat, fine bring him in on some plays to go line up wide. Let Moats show what he can. Let Steve have a little pressure both off in terms of plays and on in terms of earning his job back. At the end of the day I think Slaton wins back the job and Brown will move down the chart/off the roster. I haven't seen anything from him showing he is better in short yardage.

m5kwatts
11-02-2009, 12:29 AM
Maybe.

DeAngelo had over 700 yards rushing his rookie season. Ryan Grant didn't even play his first year, but his second (first year with Green Bay), he had over 900 yards. Cedric Benson is your best example.

Thomas Jones... Julius Jones... Fred Jackson even

Think Philly wants Moats back? They can't run for squat and Westbrook is always hurt. McCoy has fumbling problems equal to Slaton.

Norg
11-02-2009, 12:33 AM
Starter Moats

2nd stringer Slaton


a lethel dose of Fast and Faster

beerlover
11-02-2009, 12:40 AM
I don't really see the argument against this and I see Slaton as more of a starting RB. Start Moats and work Slaton in. If they feel he is a better receiving threat, fine bring him in on some plays to go line up wide. Let Moats show what he can. Let Steve have a little pressure both off in terms of plays and on in terms of earning his job back. At the end of the day I think Slaton wins back the job and Brown will move down the chart/off the roster. I haven't seen anything from him showing he is better in short yardage.

I was going to self impose a 24 hour moratorium on my sad self but you nailed it on the head. don't like it but got to respect it. In the final anaylsis competition for reps is a positive, it means the Texans have taken that next step :logo:

unreals
11-02-2009, 12:42 AM
This is just about the reaction I expected. Most fans have little knowledge of the sport they follow, especially homer fans who are in the habit of saying "we" won the game, etc. Slaton had more yards rushing last season as a rookie than either Matt Forte or Chris Johnson. He was underrated even then (just find how many people think he out rushed them both last year). As for yards per carry, Slaton averaged just about 5 ypc last season. You can't ask for a RB to do any better than that (and obviously, very few do). So clearly he knew how to carry the football last year.

So what has happened? As I noted in an earlier post, Kubiak has exacerbated this fumbling problem with his intense, over the top reaction to it from the very beginning. Many great runners, including Adrian Peterson, have had (and still do have) trouble with fumbles. The difference is that few coaches act as psychotic about it as Kubiak has over Slaton's. You can easily see that Slaton is nervous and pressing every time he touches the ball now. When you fear fumbling on every touch, you're going to fumble more often. Kubiak taking him out of the game against the Bills, and never putting him back in, will only make things worse. This guy is a real piece of work- what does he have against Slaton? Obviously, he doesn't mind fumbles, because Chris Brown's fumble at the goal line earlier in the season directly cost the Texans a victory, and he had nothing negative at all to say about Brown, and continued to use him at the goal line. On the other hand, except for the lukewarm show of support he gave Slaton earlier this week (and we see how sincere that was), Kubiak has never had anything positive to say about his dynamic young RB. When your head coach is publicly bemoaning the fact that management didn't sign Cedric Benson as a free agent, how is that supposed to make your present RB feel? Kubiak is clearly at fault here.

Ryan Moats had a very nice game against a terrible Bills run defense. There is little doubt that Slaton would have put up at least as impressive numbers on the ground, if he'd been given a chance. Those of you who are lobbying for Moats to start over Slaton simply don't have any eye for talent. Slaton is a true game breaking player, much like Chris Johnson. Kubiak should be finding more ways to get the ball in his hands, not benching him for career third stringers whenever he makes a mistake, which is just going to keep his mind on not making mistakes, instead of making plays.

Jackie Chiles
11-02-2009, 12:46 AM
When your head coach is publicly bemoaning the fact that management didn't sign Cedric Benson as a free agent, how is that supposed to make your present RB feel? Kubiak is clearly at fault here.

WTF are you talking about? I remember Kubiak being questioned about Benson and what you just stated couldn't be further from the truth. Wow.

New_Texans
11-02-2009, 12:48 AM
Um, both? Now we know that we have two Running Backs with play making ability! Be happy.

Hervoyel
11-02-2009, 12:51 AM
This is just about the reaction I expected. Most fans have little knowledge of the sport they follow, especially homer fans who are in the habit of saying "we" won the game, etc. Slaton had more yards rushing last season as a rookie than either Matt Forte or Chris Johnson. He was underrated even then (just find how many people think he out rushed them both last year). As for yards per carry, Slaton averaged just about 5 ypc last season. You can't ask for a RB to do any better than that (and obviously, very few do). So clearly he knew how to carry the football last year.

So what has happened? As I noted in an earlier post, Kubiak has exacerbated this fumbling problem with his intense, over the top reaction to it from the very beginning. Many great runners, including Adrian Peterson, have had (and still do have) trouble with fumbles. The difference is that few coaches act as psychotic about it as Kubiak has over Slaton's. You can easily see that Slaton is nervous and pressing every time he touches the ball now. When you fear fumbling on every touch, you're going to fumble more often. Kubiak taking him out of the game against the Bills, and never putting him back in, will only make things worse. This guy is a real piece of work- what does he have against Slaton? Obviously, he doesn't mind fumbles, because Chris Brown's fumble at the goal line earlier in the season directly cost the Texans a victory, and he had nothing negative at all to say about Brown, and continued to use him at the goal line. On the other hand, except for the lukewarm show of support he gave Slaton earlier this week (and we see how sincere that was), Kubiak has never had anything positive to say about his dynamic young RB. When your head coach is publicly bemoaning the fact that management didn't sign Cedric Benson as a free agent, how is that supposed to make your present RB feel? Kubiak is clearly at fault here.

Ryan Moats had a very nice game against a terrible Bills run defense. There is little doubt that Slaton would have put up at least as impressive numbers on the ground, if he'd been given a chance. Those of you who are lobbying for Moats to start over Slaton simply don't have any eye for talent. Slaton is a true game breaking player, much like Chris Johnson. Kubiak should be finding more ways to get the ball in his hands, not benching him for career third stringers whenever he makes a mistake, which is just going to keep his mind on not making mistakes, instead of making plays.

:mcnugget:

Mailman
11-02-2009, 12:59 AM
That is some crazy talk, unreals. Kubiak has been effusive in his praise for Steve Slaton. He even said as much today when he was asked by Rich Lord about any possible changes in the rb rotation.

unreals
11-02-2009, 01:44 AM
When has Kubiak ever been "effusive" in his praise for Slaton? I'd love to see some specific examples of that. On the contrary, even last year all he did was publicly question whether Slaton could handle the starting job and constantly say how "surprised" the team had been with him. Yeah, leading the AFC in total yards from scrimmage as a rookie was some "surprise."

This season, he has gone negative on Slaton at every opportunity. Prior to the beginning of the season, the team's public priority was to get another RB to share the load with their star rookie. Conversely, Tennessee took a much more logical approach, and publicly stated their goal was to get the ball in their star rookie RB's hands more often. See the difference? Kubiak began the season by announcing that aging nobody Chris Brown would be the team's goal line back, even though Slaton was not bad in short yardage situations as a rookie. Then, he publicly bemoaned the fact that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson. What an "effusive" show of confidence in Slaton that was!
Finally, he yanked Slaton each and every time he fumbled, with growing anger and impatience, clearly leading to the situation that exists today- Slaton is looking over his shoulder at every turn, and trying too hard not to fumble, which is resulting in his being a much less effective runner.

I read Kubiak's comments after the Bills game and, while they seem to point to his giving Slaton another chance, he also seemed to express confidence in him last week (for the first time ever), and we see how sincere that was.

Bottom line is, if you think Ryan Moats is a starting NFL RB, let alone better than the guy who set the league on fire all season as a rookie last year, then we strongly disagree. The real crime is that Kubiak may have already done irreperable damage to Slaton's confidence.

Mailman
11-02-2009, 01:48 AM
Have you not heard him repeatedly say that this team needs Steve to get where it wants to go?

You are way, way, way off base with this sillytalk. Kubiak is very supportive of SS.

Mailman
11-02-2009, 01:51 AM
Today: "I believe in Steve. And you guys know that. And this team will need Steve to reach any goal that it wants to reach, so I've got to get his chin up, get him back to work."

Last week: "People smell blood because he's put some balls on the ground," Kubiak said. "Steve's our guy, and I have a lot of confidence in him. It's our job to help him find a way to hold on to the football."

GuerillaBlack
11-02-2009, 03:26 AM
Thomas Jones... Julius Jones... Fred Jackson even

Think Philly wants Moats back? They can't run for squat and Westbrook is always hurt. McCoy has fumbling problems equal to Slaton.

Julius Jones had over 800 yards his first year. Jury is still out on Fred Jackson. LeSean McCoy doesn't have fumbling problems like Slaton. He has had one fumble this year and the Eagles recovered it. Plus, I'm sure the Eagles are fine with his production. Has over four yards per carry.

I just don't think you can compare Moats to these people. At least not yet. Moats doesn't have the number of carries yet.

swyyyguy
11-02-2009, 03:57 AM
moats is the man!

unreals
11-02-2009, 03:59 AM
Today: "I believe in Steve. And you guys know that. And this team will need Steve to reach any goal that it wants to reach, so I've got to get his chin up, get him back to work."

Last week: "People smell blood because he's put some balls on the ground," Kubiak said. "Steve's our guy, and I have a lot of confidence in him. It's our job to help him find a way to hold on to the football."

And his response was to pull him from the next game after he fumbled on his second touch, then never let him back in the game.

Just a thought- do you think it might have been enough of a "lesson" for Kubiak to let Slaton brood on the bench long enough to see Moats having success, then give him a chance to run the ball again, realizing that the Bills would allow him to cut through them to an even greater extent? Do you think breaking some long runs on that porous defense might have done wonders to restore Slaton's confidence?

ObsiWan
11-02-2009, 04:01 AM
When has Kubiak ever been "effusive" in his praise for Slaton? I'd love to see some specific examples of that. On the contrary, even last year all he did was publicly question whether Slaton could handle the starting job and constantly say how "surprised" the team had been with him. Yeah, leading the AFC in total yards from scrimmage as a rookie was some "surprise."

This season, he has gone negative on Slaton at every opportunity. Prior to the beginning of the season, the team's public priority was to get another RB to share the load with their star rookie. Conversely, Tennessee took a much more logical approach, and publicly stated their goal was to get the ball in their star rookie RB's hands more often. See the difference? Kubiak began the season by announcing that aging nobody Chris Brown would be the team's goal line back, even though Slaton was not bad in short yardage situations as a rookie. Then, he publicly bemoaned the fact that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson. What an "effusive" show of confidence in Slaton that was!
Finally, he yanked Slaton each and every time he fumbled, with growing anger and impatience, clearly leading to the situation that exists today- Slaton is looking over his shoulder at every turn, and trying too hard not to fumble, which is resulting in his being a much less effective runner.

I read Kubiak's comments after the Bills game and, while they seem to point to his giving Slaton another chance, he also seemed to express confidence in him last week (for the first time ever), and we see how sincere that was.

Bottom line is, if you think Ryan Moats is a starting NFL RB, let alone better than the guy who set the league on fire all season as a rookie last year, then we strongly disagree. The real crime is that Kubiak may have already done irreperable damage to Slaton's confidence.

you need to read more of the post-game comments. seems like you're behind at least a couple of weeks...

after the 49ers game (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5732)...

(on growing concern with RB Steve Slaton's fumbling situation) "Yeah, it's very concerning. I think what happens in this league too is when you get a little bit of a reputation, you put a few balls on the ground for a couple of weeks, and it's almost like these guys just start getting more, a lot tougher, as far as holding you up. You know that's where he is at right now. I mean people smell blood because he's put some balls on the ground. So they're really getting after him. I told him when I walked in with him after the game, and I just said, ‘You know we're going to go as far as you take us. And you got to figure out a way to protect the football. We're gonna work with you throughout the week, but you just got to have the ability somehow to hang onto that football.' But Steve's our guy and I have a lot of confidence in him, and it's our job to help him find a way to hold onto the ball."

(on keeping RB Steve Slaton down when he fumbles after his big plays) "Well obviously he makes big plays for us. He touches it and good things happen. But, at the same time you can make five big plays and one turnover can get you beat. Steve understands that. Obviously, the nice thing is to come out of this game with a win and try to correct something like this. Steve is our guy, and we got a lot invested in him and he gives us everything he's got. He's got a little issue right now that we're going to do everything we can to fix."


After the Cincy game (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5709)...

(on if the short passes to Slaton take the place of a running game) "He's got a hundred and fifty-something yards of offense yesterday in the game, so obviously he was very, very productive. It is a way of getting him more touches in the game, those type of things. As I've said, we have to continue to push our running game. Like I said, thirty carries yesterday—forty throws. There is some balance there even though yardage wise, it was all on the passing end. It just does something for your team. What it does, to me, is its time of possession. I think we've come out of the game winning the time of possession by quite a bit. We just need to keep working on it, keep pushing. We did it a little bit different yesterday in what we normally do, as far as some of the things we did in the running game. Obviously, the big plays Steve made in the pass game were big in the game."

when the coach tells you, "we're going as far as you can take us" that, to me, is the ultimate compliment his faith in that player's ability. I don't know what else he can say that doesn't sound like he's putting one guy above the rest of the team. And no player, especially not Slaton, wants that.

...well, maybe T.O.

Marcus
11-02-2009, 04:26 AM
When has Kubiak ever been "effusive" in his praise for Slaton? I'd love to see some specific examples of that. On the contrary, even last year all he did was publicly question whether Slaton could handle the starting job and constantly say how "surprised" the team had been with him. Yeah, leading the AFC in total yards from scrimmage as a rookie was some "surprise."

This season, he has gone negative on Slaton at every opportunity. Prior to the beginning of the season, the team's public priority was to get another RB to share the load with their star rookie. Conversely, Tennessee took a much more logical approach, and publicly stated their goal was to get the ball in their star rookie RB's hands more often. See the difference? Kubiak began the season by announcing that aging nobody Chris Brown would be the team's goal line back, even though Slaton was not bad in short yardage situations as a rookie. Then, he publicly bemoaned the fact that the team hadn't signed Cedric Benson. What an "effusive" show of confidence in Slaton that was!
Finally, he yanked Slaton each and every time he fumbled, with growing anger and impatience, clearly leading to the situation that exists today- Slaton is looking over his shoulder at every turn, and trying too hard not to fumble, which is resulting in his being a much less effective runner.

I read Kubiak's comments after the Bills game and, while they seem to point to his giving Slaton another chance, he also seemed to express confidence in him last week (for the first time ever), and we see how sincere that was.

Bottom line is, if you think Ryan Moats is a starting NFL RB, let alone better than the guy who set the league on fire all season as a rookie last year, then we strongly disagree. The real crime is that Kubiak may have already done irreperable damage to Slaton's confidence.

What the . . . :spit:

:cry2: :baby:

If Slaton, according to you, has actually gotten his little feelings hurt from being benched because he can't hold onto the football, then he needs to yank that pacifier out his mouth and grow up and be a professional ball player.

I think some of you fantasy league players dwell WAY TOO MUCH on what your favorite players did LAST year. If you focus a little more on what they've done lately, you might be a little better off.

Dan B.
11-02-2009, 04:41 AM
What the . . . :spit:

:cry2: :baby:

If Slaton, according to you, has actually gotten his little feelings hurt from being benched because he can't hold onto the football, then he needs to yank that pacifier out his mouth and grow up and be a professional ball player.

I think some of you fantasy league players dwell WAY TOO MUCH on what your favorite players did LAST year. If you focus a little more on what they've done lately, you might be a little better off.

I play the game and all, but fantasy football has completely ruined the way fans understand football. There's also the fact that they treat it like a soap opera. These are grown men. They've been benched before. If every running back had this victim mentality no backup would ever step up.

I think (well, at least I hope) that Slaton has a competitive fire that drives him to prove everyone wrong. Many coaches use this technique. Bill Parcells and Cowher weren't trying to be everyone's best buddy. They were motivators. Sometimes negative stimulus is the best motivator.

thunderkyss
11-02-2009, 07:39 AM
Steve Slaton is clearly the better back. He's got power, speed, vision, burst... But this year, he hasn't been the same as the guy we had last year. I don't know why. Maybe he's having difficulty living up to the expectations..... & he's trying too hard.

IF that is the case, then benching him may cause him to try even harder on every play.
& we get into a catch 22 situation.

If it were me, I'd sit down with Slaton, tell him he's still my boy... tell him he's still the starter.. but Moats will get more carries.

FirstTexansFan
11-02-2009, 07:51 AM
And his response was to pull him from the next game after he fumbled on his second touch, then never let him back in the game.

Just a thought- do you think it might have been enough of a "lesson" for Kubiak to let Slaton brood on the bench long enough to see Moats having success, then give him a chance to run the ball again, realizing that the Bills would allow him to cut through them to an even greater extent? Do you think breaking some long runs on that porous defense might have done wonders to restore Slaton's confidence?

I'd say welcome to Texans Talk Steve Slaton, but, I follow Slaton on twitter, and your spelling is too good to be Steve....rut roh... Slatonisabeast is actually Slaton? :)

thunderkyss
11-02-2009, 08:05 AM
moats is the man!

Was it the raiders game, where we first benched Slaton for a few plays, then Slaton came in and started to get positive yards?

Then I believe Slaton has fumbled the ball in every game this year.... may not have lost the fumble.. but I think he's fumbled in every game.


But I still believe Slaton has more upside than Moats. Moats can still be a very good back, but Steve can be special.

I don't understand Kubiak's all or nothing approach to who is in the game. They are different enought runners, that they all deserve touches every game.

RBBC... I generally don't like them, but I think it would be our best solution.

BigBull17
11-02-2009, 08:06 AM
Slaton is no doubt..especially if OD is down. Slaton is too explosive to beon bench.

Yeah, but a fumble vs Indy can really start a shit storm and cost us the game. You gotta be 100% sure he's gonna hold the rock, or his explosiveness doesn't mean a thing if he turns the ball over.

Yankee_In_TX
11-02-2009, 08:24 AM
The guys on 610 had a good point - they're not sure if Moats can block as well as Slaton...

PHAROAH
11-02-2009, 08:49 AM
Too all of the Ryan Moats should start crowd wait until he drops one on the ground and I want to see how much confidence you guys have in him and don't call for Steve Slaton. All of you guys kill ready to give up on a guy who lead the AFC in total yardage from scrimmage as a rookie with 9 TD's for a career back in Ryan Moats who was cut in Philly and was a 3rd Round bust and has been in the league over 4 season. You guys show a lot confidence in the franchise back who has done more in 1 season than Ryan Moats has done in a 4 or 5 year career, you guys go in the direction the wind blow have some loyalty and realize that moats is nothing more than another option off the bench.

infantrycak
11-02-2009, 09:59 AM
Most fans have little knowledge of the sport they follow, especially homer fans who are in the habit of saying "we" won the game, etc.

Well welcome to the MB Mrs. Slaton. Please bring your infinite football knowledge to our ignorant group.

Too all of the Ryan Moats should start crowd wait until he drops one on the ground and I want to see how much confidence you guys have in him and don't call for Steve Slaton.

All RB's fumble. Not all RB's fumble 7 times in 8 games. Simple, huh? And I expect SS to become the starter again.

unreals
11-02-2009, 10:24 AM
According to the official NFL stats, Slaton has 5 fumbles on the year to lead the NFL. Curiously, only one behind him is Michael Turner, who has played two less games than Slaton (already had a bye week and still has to play tonight.) So, since Michael Turner could easily fumble tonight, shouldn't his coach immediately bench him and go the rest of the way with the immortal Jason Snelling?

Perception is everything- Slaton's fumbling problems are as much a result of Kubiak's asinine overreaction to them as to any actual capacity he has to fumble. Have you heard anyone, anywhere, bemoan Turner's fumbling problems? Clearly, statistics show that he is in a very similar situation to Slaton in this regard. Also, Turner has been struggling as a runner at least as much as Slaton has. So....why the different response by their respective coaches?

We obviously know that the Falcons coach is far more relaxed towards Turner's struggles than Kubiak has been with Slaton. I can't believe the fans in Atlanta are treating Turner the way many of you on this forum are treating Slaton. There have been plenty of good and even great RBs in the history of this league who fumbled the ball more than they should. Right now, another starting back (Turner) is fumbling just as often as Slaton, who most of you seem to think is in some kind of unprecedented league by himself.

I don't believe Turner has been benched for any of his fumbles, and his coach has issued no public statements of concern about it. I doubt very seriously if his starting job would be in jeopardy, even if he continues fumbling (and not producing running the ball) for the rest of the season. That's the important point here- Slaton is not being treated like other star RBs would be treated in the same situation.

toronto
11-02-2009, 10:29 AM
As an unbiased outsider that put together the hilights of yesterdays game for my network, lemme tell you, I say start Moats next Sunday. He runs angry and follows blockers nicely. I'm a believer in playing the hot hand, and Slaton's fumble yesterday was just flat-out careless. Kubiak made the right call benching him.

infantrycak
11-02-2009, 10:32 AM
According to the official NFL stats, Slaton has 5 fumbles on the year to lead the NFL. Curiously, only one behind him is Michael Turner, who has played two less games than Slaton (already had a bye week and still has to play tonight.)

No according to official NFL stats he has 7 fumbles with 5 lost. Turner has 4 fumbles with 2 lost. Man that sure was a chicken shit thing to do - pick Slaton's fumbles lost and compare to Turner's fumbles. Shows you knew the difference and just decided to try to deceive people.

unreals
11-02-2009, 10:44 AM
And more "effusive" praise for Slaton from loyal coach Kubiak:

Texans coach Gary Kubiak was noncommittal when asked if Steve Slaton had lost his starting job to Ryan Moats after Sunday's performance.

"Ryan took advantage of the situation," Kubiak said. "We'll go to next week. We'll see."

I'm sure Slaton is having a bit of trouble "keeping his chin up" after that statement. Wow- one 100 yard game from a career scub, against the WORST run defense in the NFL, and this offensive guru is ready to take away Slaton's starting job? Incredible!

Even Jamarcus Russell- who is a true fumbling machine, in addition to being the worst QB in NFL history, has a coach who's way more loyal to him. After finally benching Russell for a half, for truly awful play game after game, HIS coach instantly proclaimed that he was still the starter. Doesn't Kubiak's refusal to do this for Slaton underscore everything I've been saying? Every move this sadist makes is seemingly designed to kill whatever self-confidence is left in Slaton.

One game vs. the WORST run defense in the NFL. Last season- the most yards from scrimmage by anyone in the AFC, and an average of 5 ypc. One of the great rookie RB seasons in history, forgotten halfway through the next season.

Adrian Peterson has had real fumble problems in the past. If Chester Taylor (a much, much better RB than Moats will ever be) entered a game for him and did what Moats did, would any sane fan actually suggest they make him the starter? I'm not suggesting Slaton is AP, but he was superb as a rookie, and Moats has never done anything.

Because he gets no respect from his coach, Slaton gets none from the fans.

Cjeremy635
11-02-2009, 10:51 AM
My biggest concern is the blocking ability of Moats. Slaton has stepped up in that department and Moats hasn't really been tested yet. I think the best bet is to utilize both of them. You can mix it up with Slaton on passing downs and running downs. I don't think our offense in a run, run, pass group, so it would be hard for opposing teams to identify what we were going to actually do with Slaton in the game. Mix it up with Moats and see what happens. I really like Slaton, but the fumbling makes me worry. We are still a young team and giving any additional opportunities to the other team is something we will have a hard time overcoming, especially if it's the Colts. We have got to play mistake free to have any chance of beating them and for that to happen, I think it's going to take both Slaton and Moats.

Malloy
11-02-2009, 10:53 AM
Every move this sadist makes is seemingly designed to kill whatever self-confidence is left in Slaton.


Ok I left my negative rep and I'll stop reading this nonsense. I'm sure there are other boards for family members who refuse to look at facts but rather stick to their personal agenda., may I suggest you go there?

Bye bye.

unreals
11-02-2009, 10:53 AM
"No according to official NFL stats he has 7 fumbles with 5 lost. Turner has 4 fumbles with 2 lost. Man that sure was a chicken shit thing to do - pick Slaton's fumbles lost and compare to Turner's fumbles. Shows you knew the difference and just decided to try to deceive people."

Absolutely not being deceptive. The official NFL stats only tabulate fumbles- and Slaton leads with 5, followed by Turner with 4. Also, rememver that Turner's fumbling proclivity is actually greater than Slaton's, since he has played two fewer game. Here is the link, so you can see for yourself: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=rushing&stat=rushFum&dir=descending

infantrycak
11-02-2009, 10:58 AM
Absolutely not being deceptive. The official NFL stats only tabulate fumbles- and Slaton leads with 5, followed by Turner with 4. Also, rememver that Turner's fumbling proclivity is actually greater than Slaton's, since he has played two fewer game. Here is the link, so you can see for yourself: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=rushing&stat=rushFum&dir=descending

Fox sports is not official NFL stats. You may have heard with your superior football knowledge that the NFL has a website.

Steve Slaton (http://www.nfl.com/players/steveslaton/profile?id=SLA557176) - 7 fumbles, 5 lost.

Michael Turner (http://www.nfl.com/players/michaelturner/profile?id=TUR608668) - 4 fumbles, 2 lost.

So you can see for yourself.

TexCanada
11-02-2009, 11:01 AM
Comparing Slaton's fumbles to other running backs is useless anyway. I really really don't care about other RB's problems. Slaton needs to stop fumbling, end of story.

GuerillaBlack
11-02-2009, 11:01 AM
As an unbiased outsider that put together the hilights of yesterdays game for my network, lemme tell you, I say start Moats next Sunday. He runs angry and follows blockers nicely. I'm a believer in playing the hot hand, and Slaton's fumble yesterday was just flat-out careless. Kubiak made the right call benching him.

Okay, this has nothing to do with football, but why do you spell "highlights" like that? I've seen it a few times and am wondering if that's how they spell it in Canada. ;)

Anyway, we should still start Slaton, but incorporate him more into the passing game and use Moats to run it.

TexCanada
11-02-2009, 11:03 AM
Okay, this has nothing to do with football, but why do you spell "highlights" like that? I've seen it a few times and am wondering if that's how they spell it in Canada. ;)

Anyway, we should still start Slaton, but incorporate him more into the passing game and use Moats to run it.

I'm from Canada and I spell it "highlights", not sure where the other spelling comes from.

Norg
11-02-2009, 11:32 AM
after a night to sleep on it i feel

Slaton should still be our starter

mike moffat
11-02-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm getting in late on this conversation. It may have been said already, but, Slaton does a great job on the catch and run. He just can't take it and run. Play Moats as the running back. Then let Slaton take the screens and flair passes.

HOU-TEX
11-02-2009, 11:42 AM
Re: Moats or Slaton?

Both, please

BigBull17
11-02-2009, 11:43 AM
I'm getting in late on this conversation. It may have been said already, but, Slaton does a great job on the catch and run. He just can't take it and run. Play Moats as the running back. Then let Slaton take the screens and flair passes.

But, Slaton still fumbles. He fumbles more in the open field. He needs to hold the rock, or you can't justify having him out there.

Dan B.
11-02-2009, 11:53 AM
Turner may have 2 less games, but he's carried the ball 8 more times-- meaning his fumble per carry average is half of Steve's. It's like saying a guy that throws 1 INT when he throws 40 attempts a game is just as bad as a guy that throws an INT when he throws 20 times. Not to mention Turner has 7 TD's to 2 for SS. So TD/TO ratio? Turner's is 7-2. Slaton's is 2-5.

Nice try though.

JB
11-02-2009, 12:23 PM
As I noted in an earlier post, Kubiak has exacerbated this fumbling problem with his intense, over the top reaction to it from the very beginning

The real crime is that Kubiak may have already done irreperable damage to Slaton's confidence.

Perception is everything- Slaton's fumbling problems are as much a result of Kubiak's asinine overreaction to them as to any actual capacity he has to fumble.

Every move this sadist makes is seemingly designed to kill whatever self-confidence is left in Slaton.



Did Kubiak piss in your wheaties? These are totally ludicrous statements:choke:

dc_txtech
11-02-2009, 12:25 PM
"No according to official NFL stats he has 7 fumbles with 5 lost. Turner has 4 fumbles with 2 lost. Man that sure was a chicken shit thing to do - pick Slaton's fumbles lost and compare to Turner's fumbles. Shows you knew the difference and just decided to try to deceive people."

Absolutely not being deceptive. The official NFL stats only tabulate fumbles- and Slaton leads with 5, followed by Turner with 4. Also, rememver that Turner's fumbling proclivity is actually greater than Slaton's, since he has played two fewer game. Here is the link, so you can see for yourself: http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/sortableStats?div=NFL&stable=rushing&stat=rushFum&dir=descending

Those are RUSHING fumbles. Slaton has also fumbled on 2 passing plays.

toronto
11-02-2009, 12:31 PM
Okay, this has nothing to do with football, but why do you spell "highlights" like that? I've seen it a few times and am wondering if that's how they spell it in Canada. ;)

Anyway, we should still start Slaton, but incorporate him more into the passing game and use Moats to run it.

LOL my department, for reasons I've never understood, is called "The HiLite Factory."

Guess they've turned me into a lazy typer too, so nothing Canucklehead about this one! :)

BrandonLwowski
11-02-2009, 01:17 PM
This wasn't a good game to see how good moats really was...isnt bills like 32nd against the rush? Slaton didnt really get a chance to run against them either after that fumble. It was nice to see some fresh legs in their. IMO start slaton and give moats equal carries cuz of these four reasons

1. Fresh, rested legs always helps
2. Might be the 1-2 punch we need maybe not with a huge back but with 2 quick ones
3. Moats needs to see the feild more to see if he can continue his explosiveness
4. Anything we can go to keep chris brown off the feild

Hervoyel
11-02-2009, 02:16 PM
Too all of the Ryan Moats should start crowd wait until he drops one on the ground and I want to see how much confidence you guys have in him and don't call for Steve Slaton. All of you guys kill ready to give up on a guy who lead the AFC in total yardage from scrimmage as a rookie with 9 TD's for a career back in Ryan Moats who was cut in Philly and was a 3rd Round bust and has been in the league over 4 season. You guys show a lot confidence in the franchise back who has done more in 1 season than Ryan Moats has done in a 4 or 5 year career, you guys go in the direction the wind blow have some loyalty and realize that moats is nothing more than another option off the bench.

You sound like Steve Slaton's little brother or something with this junk. We have three running backs and the best of the three is currently dealing with some fumbling problems and productivity issues. Moving somebody else in front of him on the depth chart is not an outlandish response to something that's gone on this long. Are you even watching the games? This years games? He's fumbled 7 times in 8 games. He's averaging 3.1 yard a carry. Something is not right with Steve Slaton.

There's a reason why teams have more than one running back you know. Using the other guys when the best one is having a hard time is a pretty common response. They've worked with him for weeks. They continue to voice support for him every time they're asked. They will continue to work with him and believe me, the Houston Texans are far more desperate to see Slaton get this out of his system than anyone else. I want them to start Moats but I want that because I think time coming off the bench will help Slaton get his groove back.

"unreals" is I think way off base with this "hurt his confidence" stuff.

A) If his confidence can be hurt anymore than it was at the point where he was sitting on the turf contemplating his 7th fumble and 5th turnover I would be amazed.

B) If he's got so little resilience that he can be irreperably harmed by being benched then Steve Slaton wasn't the answer in the first place.

Time to go back to work and get this fumbling crap out of his system. In the meantime he can come off the bench. If he wants his spot back and if he's half the back he looked like last year he can take it from Ryan Moats who will be keeping it warm until Steve is ready to go again.

Marcus
11-02-2009, 02:46 PM
Did Kubiak piss in your wheaties? These are totally ludicrous statements:choke:

Look at his name (unreals) and then look at his post count. (11)

He's nothing but a fricken troll.

silvrhand
11-02-2009, 05:09 PM
Look at his name (unreals) and then look at his post count. (11)

He's nothing but a fricken troll.

exactly don't feed the trolls..

http://alanisgood.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/do_not_feed_trolls.jpg

GuerillaBlack
11-02-2009, 05:51 PM
I wouldn't call him a troll. I mean, just look at his post. Definitely not troll material. He just has a different opinion than most of us. If he just came in and said "Kubiak is stupid and Slaton is the best, **** what yall sayin'", then that's a troll.

76Texan
11-02-2009, 05:57 PM
I wouldn't call him a troll. I mean, just look at his post. Definitely not troll material. He just has a different opinion than most of us. If he just came in and said "Kubiak is stupid and Slaton is the best, **** what yall sayin'", then that's a troll.

People can be so harsh! :runaway:

Dan B.
11-02-2009, 06:15 PM
Y'all should be more considerate of unreals' feelings. If you say mean things about him and shatter his confidence he might misspell something.

ObsiWan
11-02-2009, 07:10 PM
The guys on 610 had a good point - they're not sure if Moats can block as well as Slaton...

Well rep for the 610 am guys. I wondered about that myself. Most good-sized LBs and ALL DEs will steamroll little Mr. Moats. It's not that he won't give his best shot. It's a simple matter of physics. Moats just ain't big enough. Hell, Slaton barely is.

infantrycak
11-02-2009, 07:13 PM
Well rep for the 610 am guys. I wondered about that myself. Most good-sized LBs and ALL DEs will steamroll little Mr. Moats. It's not that he won't give his best shot. It's a simple matter of physics. Moats just ain't big enough. Hell, Slaton barely is.

Kubiak addressed that in his press conference and said they had about the same skill level. We'll see.

indiantexan
11-02-2009, 07:18 PM
Not sure if this has been posted. From nfl.com



News: Speaking with the media on Monday, Texans head coach Gary Kubiak expressed an interest in using Steve Slaton, Ryan Moats and Chris Brown as part of a three-headed rushing attack going forward. Saying he was in no hurry to make a decision, Kubiak will judge the running backs based on their strengths as well as what down and distance the Texans are facing. Moats took Slaton's place on the field at Buffalo in Week 8 following Slaton's fifth lost fumble of the season and tore it up for over 150 total yards and three touchdowns. Slaton finished with the fumble and only 10 receiving yards, giving him a negative performance in standard-scoring leagues.


Analysis: We're guessing that Brown will continue to work at the goal line and in some pass-blocking situations while Moats and Slaton will split the other reps. Kubiak did hint that Slaton's receiving skills were a bit better than Moats', so perhaps he'll go into a third-down role. Regardless, the whole situation is a potential mess. If you own Slaton, treat him as a middle- to low-end No. 3 Fantasy rusher and aim to get Moats off waivers. Moats will be targeted by many Fantasy owners as a priority waiver claim and could be equally useful as a No. 3 rusher. Brown is no better than a low-end option, especially since he has struggled in his role as a goal-line back. The Texans might do fairly well on the ground in Week 9 playing against the Colts.

unreals
11-02-2009, 08:21 PM
To those of you who continue the mantra about Slaton being a good receiving back, but not being able to carry the ball effectively- how do you explain last season? Apparently, he was able to carry the ball better than all other stellar rookies, including Chris Johnson, as he outgained them all in rushing yardage. Your references to his ypc make little sense, either, in that he averaged 5 ypc- an incredibly rare feat- last season. So your marginalizing him as a third down back, which is what Kubiak did publicly most of last season, is contradicted by the facts.

Kubiak's statements today continue to reinforce my views. He is doing anything he can to NOT stand behind Slaton, or to give him any vote of confidence. Also, his inconsistency with his RBs is apparent with the way he keeps throwing the totally ineffective Chris Brown into the equation. Brown's goal line fumble at the end of a game cost his team a victory, thereby being more directly negative to the Texans than all of Slaton's fumbles combined. Kubiak's reaction to Brown was warm and cuddly; he instantly commented publicly that "I believe in Chris," and stated he would remain the team's goal line back. All season long, Brown has failed miserably in short yardage situations, yet the coaching staff continues to employ him this way. Unlike Slaton, Brown has never done anything in this league except get hurt repeatedly. Too bad Kubiak can't display some of this patience towards Slaton, who did more in his rookie year than Brown and Moats will ever do combined.

Keep on denying facts, like claiming Michael Turner has 7 TDs, but Slaton only 2, conveniently leaving out his 3 receiving TDs. That makes 5 total TDs, which is pretty good considering how often he's been yanked and how much he's pressing due to Kubiak's "tough love" tactics.

I'm not Slaton, nor his mother, and this isn't about fantasy football. It's about the obvious fact that this guy has always been underappreciated and is now being treated unfairly by his coach.

Dan B.
11-02-2009, 08:40 PM
To those of you who continue the mantra about Slaton being a good receiving back, but not being able to carry the ball effectively- how do you explain last season? Apparently, he was able to carry the ball better than all other stellar rookies, including Chris Johnson, as he outgained them all in rushing yardage. Your references to his ypc make little sense, either, in that he averaged 5 ypc- an incredibly rare feat- last season. So your marginalizing him as a third down back, which is what Kubiak did publicly most of last season, is contradicted by the facts.

Kubiak's statements today continue to reinforce my views. He is doing anything he can to NOT stand behind Slaton, or to give him any vote of confidence. Also, his inconsistency with his RBs is apparent with the way he keeps throwing the totally ineffective Chris Brown into the equation. Brown's goal line fumble at the end of a game cost his team a victory, thereby being more directly negative to the Texans than all of Slaton's fumbles combined. Kubiak's reaction to Brown was warm and cuddly; he instantly commented publicly that "I believe in Chris," and stated he would remain the team's goal line back. All season long, Brown has failed miserably in short yardage situations, yet the coaching staff continues to employ him this way. Unlike Slaton, Brown has never done anything in this league except get hurt repeatedly. Too bad Kubiak can't display some of this patience towards Slaton, who did more in his rookie year than Brown and Moats will ever do combined.

Keep on denying facts, like claiming Michael Turner has 7 TDs, but Slaton only 2, conveniently leaving out his 3 receiving TDs. That makes 5 total TDs, which is pretty good considering how often he's been yanked and how much he's pressing due to Kubiak's "tough love" tactics.

I'm not Slaton, nor his mother, and this isn't about fantasy football. It's about the obvious fact that this guy has always been underappreciated and is now being treated unfairly by his coach.

I referenced fumbles per carry, not yards. Slaton is fumbling an average of once every 12 touches. No one in the league comes close to that ratio. I like how Slaton getting more receiving TD's than rushing TD's indicates to you that he is actually effective at running rather than receiving. This might just indicate that Slaton would be more effective in space -- you know, receiving. Course, you are the guy that is comparing AP's fumbles for 16 games to Slaton's for 8 (but yeah, Turner has the game advantage in his fumble ratio -- seriously where do you come up with this stuff?)

Don't know if you noticed, but Chris Brown and Ryan Moats both have better ypc than Slaton behind an identical line (not to mention that Brown is typically entered in short yardage situations which will naturally reduce his ypc). Moats is averaging 4.8 ypc for the season -- and that's an incredibly rare feat, right? Why wouldn't you start a RB who is averaging almost 5 yards per carry this year? Brown also has exactly one fumble all year (I believe that 1 is less than 7) -- and the two are splitting carries.

This is just lunacy. Kubiak has said called Slaton his guy. He said we are going as far as Steve takes us. How in hell is that throwing him under the bus, but Kubes is kissing Brown's ass when he says he believes in him? You make absolutely no sense.

Find me a coach in the NFL that would tolerate a RB that fumbles every. single. game.

Scooter
11-02-2009, 08:52 PM
To those of you who continue the mantra about Slaton being a good receiving back, but not being able to carry the ball effectively- how do you explain last season?

i explain last season by ... wait, this isnt last season! fred bennett had a great rookie season so by that logic he should be our starter regardless of what he does the rest of his career, and mario should split time at DE because of his showing as a rookie. the whole league knows what slaton did last season and what he's capable of. what's going on right now, despite the opinions of a few in this thread, is NOT last season. everybody here hopes slaton figures it out and gets his form and job back because he does have that ability. until he shows those things however, he's proven THIS SEASON to be a liability and is being outperformed by the backups.

DocBar
11-02-2009, 09:26 PM
The real question for next week is, will the o-line control the line of scrimmage. If so, it won't really matter who is the RB. And the Texans will need to run the ball effectively on the Colts, in order to slow the pass rush and keep Manning off the field.Didn't read past this post, so sorry if I repeat someone.
The Texans OL should be able to make some holes against the Colts DL. We've been running a little lighter on the DL the last few games and our OL has been practicing against that, so that should help. Besides, our O is a bit better in the passing game than either Miami or SF, both of which gave Indy fits. The better question would be: can our D do a better job of slowing down the Colts O than either of those two teams?

CloakNNNdagger
11-02-2009, 09:51 PM
I dug up this Article published last year. It is a MUST READ (including followup comments) for those torn with the decision for or against Slaton in light of his continued FUMBLING.

If nothing else, this piece (with stats and all) will make you think...........

Where have all the fumbling running backs gone? (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=522)

Like the Dodo Bird, Thylacine, and Quagga, they have been the victims of natural selection. They either changed their stripes, or they became extinct.

silvrhand
11-02-2009, 10:14 PM
I dug up this Article published last year. It is a MUST READ (including followup comments) for those torn with the decision for or against Slaton in light of his continued FUMBLING.

If nothing else, this piece (with stats and all) will make you think...........

Where have all the fumbling running backs gone? (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/blog/?p=522)

I don't think he covers the ground can't cause a fumble rule which was created when? I thought that was a rule that was created later in the NFL?

thunderkyss
11-02-2009, 10:40 PM
Kubiak's statements today continue to reinforce my views. He is doing anything he can to NOT stand behind Slaton, or to give him any vote of confidence.

I'm not Slaton, nor his mother, and this isn't about fantasy football. It's about the obvious fact that this guy has always been underappreciated and is now being treated unfairly by his coach.

Was that Steve's only fumble?

Or has the coach stood behind him after every other fumble, and decided not to this time?

& it's not like Steve Slaton is acting like the Steve Slaton from last year either. I don't understand why anyone should treat him like the Steve Slaton from last year.

ObsiWan
11-03-2009, 01:28 AM
Both, please

this is the answer.
nothing wrong with using a 1-2 punch at RB.
I hear it's all the rage with some other teams

like others have said, Moats needs to be effective in pass blocking or other defenses will use his presence to tip them off that we're for sure going to run the ball.

Dan B.
11-03-2009, 01:31 AM
Was that Steve's only fumble?

Or has the coach stood behind him after every other fumble, and decided not to this time?

& it's not like Steve Slaton is acting like the Steve Slaton from last year either. I don't understand why anyone should treat him like the Steve Slaton from last year.

Exactly. There is just as much evidence that last season was the fluke year as there is that this one is the aberration.

I tend to think Steve is somewhere in between. He is not going to be a full time back for us. But he can definitely contribute.

ObsiWan
11-03-2009, 01:58 AM
To those of you who continue the mantra about Slaton being a good receiving back, but not being able to carry the ball effectively- how do you explain last season? Apparently, he was able to carry the ball better than all other stellar rookies, including Chris Johnson, as he outgained them all in rushing yardage. Your references to his ypc make little sense, either, in that he averaged 5 ypc- an incredibly rare feat- last season. So your marginalizing him as a third down back, which is what Kubiak did publicly most of last season, is contradicted by the facts.

Kubiak's statements today continue to reinforce my views. He is doing anything he can to NOT stand behind Slaton, or to give him any vote of confidence. Also, his inconsistency with his RBs is apparent with the way he keeps throwing the totally ineffective Chris Brown into the equation. Brown's goal line fumble at the end of a game cost his team a victory, thereby being more directly negative to the Texans than all of Slaton's fumbles combined. Kubiak's reaction to Brown was warm and cuddly; he instantly commented publicly that "I believe in Chris," and stated he would remain the team's goal line back. All season long, Brown has failed miserably in short yardage situations, yet the coaching staff continues to employ him this way. Unlike Slaton, Brown has never done anything in this league except get hurt repeatedly. Too bad Kubiak can't display some of this patience towards Slaton, who did more in his rookie year than Brown and Moats will ever do combined.

Keep on denying facts, like claiming Michael Turner has 7 TDs, but Slaton only 2, conveniently leaving out his 3 receiving TDs. That makes 5 total TDs, which is pretty good considering how often he's been yanked and how much he's pressing due to Kubiak's "tough love" tactics.

I'm not Slaton, nor his mother, and this isn't about fantasy football. It's about the obvious fact that this guy has always been underappreciated and is now being treated unfairly by his coach.

If you're truly a Texans' fan and have been following Kubiak's modus operandi since he's been here, you'd realize that Slaton has been given much more tolerance to his fumbling than any other RB that he (Kubiak) has had here. Hell, he flat dumped Wali Lundy to the practice squad for a month and eventually totally dumped him because of his fumbling issues.

And I also think you do Slaton a grave, grave injustice by repeately saying his psyche is so fragile that these temporary benchings will destroy his confidence. If anything, it should make him work all the harder to prove he belongs as the starter and that he will work to beat this issue. And, make no mistake, it IS an issue and, I think even if you don't, that he's man enough to know it and do his damnest to work thru it. Just like last year when he set about to prove to the league he should have been a 1st round - not a 3rd round - draft pick.

It's a shame you have so little faith in him.

Apparently, Kubiak has more faith in Steve (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5767) than you do...

Kubiak said that Slaton, who had a team-record 1,282 yards last season, is still an integral part of the team's future success.
"I talked to him in front of the team," Kubiak said. "I told him in front of the team to keep his chin up, that we need him. But let's face it: it's got to get fixed, and the only guy that can fix it is Steve. We're all trying to help him to do what he can do, but it's got to get fixed."
Slaton's abilities as a receiver should go a long way toward him continuing to see the field.

I think this helps galvanize the team to help one of their main cogs get thru a rough patch. You probably think Slaton was embarrassed by this and will never emotionally recover.

Yeah, Kubiak obviously has more faith in Slaton than you do.

thunderkyss
11-03-2009, 10:20 AM
It's a shame you have so little faith in him.

Apparently, Kubiak has more faith in Steve (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5767) than you do...


I think this helps galvanize the team to help one of their main cogs get thru a rough patch. You probably think Slaton was embarrassed by this and will never emotionally recover.

Yeah, Kubiak obviously has more faith in Slaton than you do.

I can't rep you enough.... the board won't let me.

I'm rewatching the game again. with 12:30 remaining in the first Qtr, after Moats first carrie, Gannon is going on about how Kubiak said Moats will get more carries to help ease the pressure off Steve Slaton.

So it's not like it was a knee-jerk reaction. Kubiak planned to get Moats more involved anyway.

Slaton started the game, he blew a blocking assignment on the first snap, when Paul Polsnoski(sp) trucked him on his way to chasing Schaub for a 1 yard gain. Then he had that nice little dump off pass that he turned into six yards.

Nobody is giving up on Slaton. Nobody thinks Moats can bring what Slaton does.....

But everybody knows SS needs to get this thing fixed.