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ledzeppelin229
02-21-2005, 01:30 AM
Text:
http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113254

Original link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40538-2005Feb20.html

Found this on KFFL saying that Laveranues Coles could be released. I hate to bring up another "hey, this guy is available, lets sign him" but I wanted to see what people thought. What level of speed does he have? Would he be an upgrade over who else we have and how much money would he be looking for?

He's complaining about not being enough of the offense though, so I doubt Houston would look that appealing where he would have to settle for #2 money and #2 receptions.

ThaShark316
02-21-2005, 01:42 AM
Only way I could see him being a Texan is if someone tells him that the Texans run a "#2 WR is the main option" Offense :whistle:

I think Dallas is a STRONG possiblity cuz of BP drafting him.

ArlingtonTexan
02-21-2005, 06:58 AM
Text:
http://www.kffl.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113254

Original link: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A40538-2005Feb20.html

Found this on KFFL saying that Laveranues Coles could be released. I hate to bring up another "hey, this guy is available, lets sign him" but I wanted to see what people thought. What level of speed does he have? Would he be an upgrade over who else we have and how much money would he be looking for?

He's complaining about not being enough of the offense though, so I doubt Houston would look that appealing where he would have to settle for #2 money and #2 receptions.

i think the complaint over "this guy is available, let's sign him," is not the Coles of the world but the guys who are wash-up or never had beens. Talking about Coles makes sense. Honestly, I am not convinced that he will get a gig where he is the clear number one. His best spot is probably opposite another WR who is his equal or better. IMO, he would fit great in Houston, but he may not want that role.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-21-2005, 07:35 AM
I think he will end up with the Eagles. They have the vertical passing game he likes and the cap money to sign him.

twinkletwinkle
02-21-2005, 11:39 AM
Coles is the perfect fit for Houston. He runs like a 4.2 forty. He was the speedster on the Jets before anyone even knew Santana Moss' name. And man he can catch. This would be a huge move for the Texans. He is the real deal and made Pennington look better than he was. Andre opposite Coles would be an awesome tandem throw in a little Armstrong (Jabar who?) in there too and you have an all league recieving corps. Then we can focus on Darryl Johnson in the draft. Anyone notice AJ came in second in the 35 yd dash in the Pro Bowl skills challenge to only Rossum?

Grid
02-21-2005, 12:09 PM
and once we get all them we can toss Gaffney Armstrong and Starling out on their as*es

bleh.. id rather not get anyone.. and let our young guys mature. we have some great young talent.

Youngstown Colt
02-21-2005, 12:18 PM
I think Dallas is a STRONG possiblity cuz of BP drafting him.I thought Parcells left before that draft?

ledzeppelin229
02-21-2005, 01:31 PM
and once we get all them we can toss Gaffney Armstrong and Starling out on their as*es

bleh.. id rather not get anyone.. and let our young guys mature. we have some great young talent.

Armstrong and Gaffney are proven slot guys, but don't have the speed.

Honestly, what has Starling shown to everyone that we would expect him to compete for the #2 spot more than year or two down the road? The guy went undrafted and didn't get any real playing time. I want to see him develop as much as anyone, but if we signed Coles to say a 3 year deal, his contract would expire about the time our developing #2 speedsters should be more than ready to move up.

Nawzer
02-21-2005, 01:31 PM
How about his running mate Rod Gardener? Big physical receiver but hasn't lived upto potential yet. He could be a good no.2 guy imho.

ThaShark316
02-21-2005, 01:51 PM
This almost guarantees that the Redskins will either take Braylon Edwards or Mike Williams @ #9.

Grid
02-21-2005, 02:06 PM
Starling was getting open and making plays when he was in the game.

as for having not enough speed to be the #2 guy... yah there are times when our #2 is gonna need to stretch the field.. thats when you bring in Starling.. otherwise, having Armstrong or Gaffney in isnt gonna hurt anything.

Honestly.. we do not need another WR.. we need to develope the talent we have.

ledzeppelin229
02-21-2005, 02:25 PM
Starling was getting open and making plays when he was in the game.

as for having not enough speed to be the #2 guy... yah there are times when our #2 is gonna need to stretch the field.. thats when you bring in Starling.. otherwise, having Armstrong or Gaffney in isnt gonna hurt anything.

Honestly.. we do not need another WR.. we need to develope the talent we have.

When was Starling getting open and making plays? Possibly preseason? He didn't have a single reception all season.

I am all for developing these guys, but that's what they are: "Developing". If we had a deep threat that opposing defenses were actually worried about, it would open up chances for Gaffney and Armstrong underneath (and hopefully Joppru) and running the ball would be a lot easier. Protecting Carr would also be a lot easier since teams wouldn't be able to blitz as aggressively.

twinkletwinkle
02-21-2005, 02:30 PM
develop the talent we have....??? What is this the Astros board? We need to buy one or two players and develop the rest. The two teams in the superbowl this year both went out and got players. Dillon, TO, the Freak, you have to get a couple FA's here and there to be the best. Maybe we can compete with what we have, but at $60 bucks a ticket I want to see someone more exciting than a fourth string hopeful dropping an open touchdown.

Grid
02-21-2005, 02:43 PM
So yall dont think we should develope our current talent.. and instead should blow all our cap space on some pro bowl WR?

great idea :P.

I guess we will see which one of us was right by the beggining of next season.

Grid
02-21-2005, 02:47 PM
and btw.. we DO have a deep threat.. his name is Andre Johnson... and him and bradford going deep didnt do a dang thing for our pass protection. It hardly matters when Carr only has 3 seconds to throw the ball.

And look around the league.. look at how many teams dont need two 4.3 40 WRs to be successful.

ledzeppelin229
02-21-2005, 03:08 PM
So yall dont think we should develope our current talent.. and instead should blow all our cap space on some pro bowl WR?

great idea :P.

I guess we will see which one of us was right by the beggining of next season.

I never said I don't want to develop the current talent, and I never once advocating "blowing all our cap space".

What I wanted was a WR that's been around a few years with elite speed so we aren't so predictable. So Johnson/Coles can burn the D to the point they learn their lesson. None of the others can. I wonder who they are going to roll the coverage to?? This doesn't take a college degree to figure out. If Starling is a great WR in a couple years and solves all those problems, then great. At that point Coles (or similar equivalent) will be towards the end of their contract and Starling can step in without the offense missing a beat.

And I don't really know how signing/not signing Coles will prove one of us right and one of us wrong. I'm saying it would help our offense, not that Casserly would necessarily sign the guy.

twinkletwinkle
02-21-2005, 03:19 PM
I dont think there is a chance we will get Coles, Porter, or even the late great Rice. The team won't spend the dough to make it happen (I can wish though). Can you blame them when half of the fan base will be happy coming in 9-7; second to Indianapolis from now until Manning retires. Look at Seattle, you can have the best on paper guys around but if they can't catch you don't win.

I am for devolping talent but the WRs on the FA market this year we already KNOW can catch, and in Coles case, can run too. Cap Smap pay a WR and maybe a lineman, and cut Bradford to make the room. What do we lose 10 catches a year? Besides two speedsters on the corners will leave DD open over the middle for an extra 5 yards a completion.

powda
02-21-2005, 04:01 PM
Cap Smap pay a WR and maybe a lineman, and cut Bradford to make the room. What do we lose 10 catches a year? Besides two speedsters on the corners will leave DD open over the middle for an extra 5 yards a completion.

-you cant get money out of cutting bradford because he's not under contract.

-your not going to find another reciever with speed much better then bradford ,and you know what little effect that had on opposing defenses in our short history.

dont get me wrong, im all for developing talent ,and in the meantime signing a vetran wr. BUT until we have a proven running game and an offensive line that can give carr longer then 2 1/2 seconds its probably a poor investment.

sign a vet reciever to a short term contract at a reasonable rate...aside from that i think we're better off aquiring a reciever on the first day of the draft. coles will not be cheap. thats a pipe dream.

twinkletwinkle
02-21-2005, 04:34 PM
Sure, its a total pipe dream. We need an OL. The Eagles were good enough that TO could make an immediate impact (though any change in that recieving corps was a good one). If we spend next year timing every play for how long it takes Carr to get creamed, a reciever won't help. But we have heard that the Texans won't spend $$ on the FA market for OL this year. So in the meantime Coles is a burner and fun to watch. Or, how about we trade down and pick Clayton and get another pick TBD. I hate OU but that Clayton can catch the ball.

bckey
02-21-2005, 05:48 PM
I would pick up Coles in a heartbeat. Coles is head and shoulders above Bradford. He can improve the offensive line just by getting open or drawing coverage off of AJ so there will be much less coverage sacks. Carr holds the ball instead of throwing it away and gets sacked. He will probably want more than we can pay him though but it is still nice to dream.

twinkletwinkle
02-21-2005, 05:54 PM
[QUOTE=powda]-you cant get money out of cutting bradford being cut because he's not under contract.




I meant cut him from the roster.

texasguy346
02-21-2005, 06:00 PM
I believe Bradford's a free agent, so unless we sign him then cut him we can't cut him from the roster.

As far as Cole's goes, I just heard on SportsCenter that the Redskins are trying to back out of an agreement they made to cut Coles, and instead are looking to trade him. I guess that's so they can get something in return for letting him go.

Grid
02-21-2005, 06:21 PM
my point is that the talent we have at WR is nothing to sneeze at and our needs are greater in other places. If we fix our Oline then you may find that we dont need any more help at WR. Of course.. if that happens we will be stuck with a veteran WR sucking up cap space.

Stick with what we have.. our WRs are fine as they are.. get the weaknesses fixed before you try to accentuate our strengths.

Marcus
02-21-2005, 06:24 PM
I am absolutely laughing myself silly reading this thread.

Some of you don't have a freakin clue what a salary cap is. And some of you don't have a freakin clue why the Titans will be forced to release half of their starting lineup this upcoming season.

Laverneous Coles is a high dollar player. What, praytell, makes any of you think that we wouldn't be "blowing all our cap space" if we signed him?

develop the talent we have....??? What is this the Astros board? We need to buy one or two players and develop the rest. The two teams in the superbowl this year both went out and got players. Dillon, TO, the Freak, you have to get a couple FA's here and there to be the best. Maybe we can compete with what we have, but at $60 bucks a ticket I want to see someone more exciting than a fourth string hopeful dropping an open touchdown.

Cap smap, huh? :rofl:

LikeABoss
02-21-2005, 06:29 PM
If we fix our Oline then you may find that we dont need any more help at WR.

Okay, I hear alot of people on this board saying this. But how are we gonna go about fixing the o-line when the front office say they are not spending anymore money on the o-line through free agency?? Please don't tell me ya'll recommend spending an entire draft worth of picks on rookie O-lineman :wacko:

TexanBacker93
02-21-2005, 08:45 PM
I don't think the Texans need to spend an entire draft on fixing the O-Line. They can use a pick to upgrade one of the two weak spots on the line (Center and Left Tackle in my opinion). Use the rest on LB, D-Line, DB, WR, TE (especially if Joppru will never see the field).

Coles isn't worth the money it will take to sign him. He's definitely an upgrade over Bradford and would be a great compliment, but teams can't afford to pay 2 guys that want #1 money and still be successful year after year. If he'd sign for #2 money with a chance to be part of a winning organization sign him up. That's not going to happen, though.

sprtsfanatic
02-21-2005, 10:35 PM
I know its a long shot, but what do you all think about LC coming to Houston? I know his nagging toe injury will pay a huge factor in this as will his contract negotiations with the Redskins, but with a WR combo of AJ, LC, and AG I think it would be a tremendous tandem.

Not only is he a good, fast receiver but the fact that his hate and discontent of playing for the Redskins and his injury could allow for him to go at a much lower cost....possible draft pick we got from Dallas for Henson and something in return??

What are your thoughts??

It was just interesting to see a receiver of his caliber about to be released. :hmmm:

texansfan88
02-21-2005, 10:37 PM
Why would a #1 WR want to come be a #2 somewhere else?

texansfan88
02-21-2005, 10:42 PM
Cause he thinks about a SB on his finger someday.... Time for charley to play our "Texans Legit Playoff Conterder Card" to get some good players into the system and not break the bank...

Like your the last piece of the puzzle, but we cant pay you that much... kinda thing
Baltimore has a better shot than Houston right now

WWJD
02-22-2005, 07:29 AM
Yea I agree. He's much more likely to go somewhere where he's "the" man. Why come to Houston and get 2 balls per game when he can go somewhere and get alot more? I guess money talks but in this case I am guessing he can go somewhere else and get just as much money as he can here.

Marcus
02-22-2005, 08:03 AM
The Titans had to release 6 starters because their GM wasn't properly managing the salary cap. Signing Laverneous Coles would be mis-managing the cap, and Casserly ain't about to do that. There is a good reason why Casserly said that he wouldn't be signing any big-time free agents. He would love to be able to go out and freely spend Bob McNair's money for every free agent that's released by another team.

Ever wonder why these teams are releasing these players?

texanfan2002114
02-22-2005, 08:13 AM
Yea I agree. He's much more likely to go somewhere where he's "the" man. Why come to Houston and get 2 balls per game when he can go somewhere and get alot more? I guess money talks but in this case I am guessing he can go somewhere else and get just as much money as he can here.

I believe that Coles would get more balls to him as the Texans 2nd reciever than the Ravens #1!! Who would you like to throw to you???

rittenhouserobz
02-22-2005, 08:25 AM
Just watch. If the Colts use the frachise tag on Edge, then they too will be in cap trouble in the distant future. The Titans have just nose-dived. The Colts are next. I for one hope the Texans are able to manage the cap by keeping the core of players in tact and adding some youth that can make an impact without the astronomical cost of a FA.

Sarg01
02-22-2005, 08:50 AM
I believe that Coles would get more balls to him as the Texans 2nd reciever than the Ravens #1!! Who would you like to throw to you???

Someone with the official stats noted that Coles was the third most thrown to guy in the entire NFL.

OzzO
02-22-2005, 09:05 AM
Just watch. If the Colts use the frachise tag on Edge, .....

Not to hijack the thread, but that was mentioned on 790 as most likely what the Colts will do by 4:00 today.

rittenhouserobz
02-22-2005, 09:26 AM
I apologzie for not addressing the topic of Coles in my previous post. I am a Noles fan and I think he would be a wonderful addition to the team, but I really have to wonder what the cost-benefit model would look like in this case. Right off hand.

Benefit- 1. AJ does not get "all" the double teams.
2. The defense would not be blitzing every down unless its Philly. (They just dont care.)
3. The confidence and veteran leadership on the offensive side of the ball would increase.

Cost:
1. Risk AJ or Coles not accepting a role of equal at the position. (They both would want to be top dog)
2. The salary cap number for Coles would be significantly higher than trying to get a younger player with similar potential to Coles.
3. Risk the chance of spending so much on WR that the OL gets ignored or less attention than needed.

Just my opinion.

U4ikrob
02-22-2005, 10:09 AM
Coles is a great receiver and could bea great addition to the team if the conditions and contract was right. So could Mason, Buress or a number of other guys. But any of those guys coming in with probably has multiple Pro-bowl appearances and experience and thus should IMO expect to be the #1 receiver.

That said - AJ is a great receiver also - dont get me wrong, but Competition for him at his level I think would make him a better player - not the other way around. How great would the options be if you have 2 Pro bowlers on the field? It would be real nice to have a Coles / Johnson combo on the field much like the Irvin Harper comboy combo was when they made their SB runs. Having 2 great receivers on a team gives the offense options and keeps the defense pinned back into more coverage and that will help give David more time to pass. Eventually one of the 2 will get open. With the Cover 2 most teams are using now on defense, Quick hitting hitches, short outs, curls, slants ie: a west coast style offense or run and gun would need to be mixed in to the current Run 60 pass 40 mix they have going to use the talent the way it should be and give us the cahnce to be a more passing team which caters to David's style moe. Then you also have Gaffney and Miller and DD too to think about. So many weapons - so many options. The thing is it's on Palmer to use the weapons if he gets them and thats where an offensive shift in playcalling would be necessary. IMO if you Mix in a dose of DD and 2 pro bowl receivers and you will see a huge difference in the Offenses production numbers.

my 2 yards

WWJD
02-22-2005, 11:36 AM
I believe that Coles would get more balls to him as the Texans 2nd reciever than the Ravens #1!! Who would you like to throw to you???


I'm not sure I understand the point you are trying to make but my point would be that AJ is the number one guy here. There is no way around that.

Why would Coles want to come here and automatically be the number 2 guy when he can go someplace and be the top receiver...

That would seem to be the logical thing for him to consider. I do think he will go wherever he gets offered the most irregardless but I don't see the Texans paying him more than he can get somewhere else and I do see him wanting to be the number one guy wherever he goes.

He won't get that here for sure. David is going to throw to AJ more and that's just a given.

twinkletwinkle
02-22-2005, 02:44 PM
As Marcus said I am no pro at the cap. But I do know all about creative solutions. With respect to Coles being a disgruntled No.2, that is a chance worth taking. We have already seen what happened in Carolina with Steve Smith (Mr. Ego) and Muhammad (Mrs. Ego). Smith is the No.1 guy until he got injured and the only person left to throw to was MM. Carolina paid MM No.1 $$, so can he and Smith get along, I guess we will see. And Delhome is no Carr. So I think Coles and AJ will get along too. Coles can ba a No.1 reciever on a rebuilding team or a No.2 on a contender, his choice. Maybe with the cap playing such a major role the FA receivers will come cheaper this year.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-22-2005, 03:20 PM
or he can be a #1 on a contender like the Jets or Ravens.

twinkletwinkle
02-22-2005, 03:57 PM
He should have done everything he could to stay on the Jets the first time. Oh wait it was that $$ thing. Boller is no baller and the Ravens keep getting older. The Texans are as much a contender as they are.

texasguy346
02-22-2005, 04:01 PM
With Porter resigning with Oakland, and with the Vikes new owner saying he won't trade Moss, Coles could very well be the top free agent receiver along with Derek Mason. He won't come to any team cheap if he gets cut, and until March 2nd the Redskins are trying to arrange a trade. The Ravens seem to be eager to snatch up a quality WR, and if they can't trade for Moss they'll probably set their sights on Coles or Mason.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-22-2005, 04:04 PM
He should have done everything he could to stay on the Jets the first time. Oh wait it was that $$ thing. Boller is no baller and the Ravens keep getting older. The Texans are as much a contender as they are.



The Ravens are the 3rd youngest team in the NFL and we are not as close as the Ravens to becoming a legitimate contender. Take off your homer goggles.

WWJD
02-22-2005, 04:06 PM
I don't think receiver is much of a high priority need. Maybe some would say TE is if that Joppru (sp?) doesn't work out.

And to be honest I like Mason better. I think the guy is just really talented and between Coles and Mason I'd pick Mason.

LikeABoss
02-22-2005, 04:48 PM
The Ravens seem to be eager to snatch up a quality WR, and if they can't trade for Moss they'll probably set their sights on Coles or Mason.

Good point, I'm definitely sure the Ravens will pursue Mason strongly, plus they would also have the cap room to pursue Burress also if he too becomes a UFA. If they do sign Mason, I wonder if they will still look to draft a WR in the first round :hmmm:

LikeABoss
02-22-2005, 04:53 PM
Coles is a great receiver and could bea great addition to the team if the conditions and contract was right. So could Mason, Buress or a number of other guys. But any of those guys coming in with probably has multiple Pro-bowl appearances and experience and thus should IMO expect to be the #1 receiver.

That said - AJ is a great receiver also - dont get me wrong, but Competition for him at his level I think would make him a better player - not the other way around. How great would the options be if you have 2 Pro bowlers on the field? It would be real nice to have a Coles / Johnson combo on the field much like the Irvin Harper comboy combo was when they made their SB runs. Having 2 great receivers on a team gives the offense options and keeps the defense pinned back into more coverage and that will help give David more time to pass. Eventually one of the 2 will get open. With the Cover 2 most teams are using now on defense, Quick hitting hitches, short outs, curls, slants ie: a west coast style offense or run and gun would need to be mixed in to the current Run 60 pass 40 mix they have going to use the talent the way it should be and give us the cahnce to be a more passing team which caters to David's style moe. Then you also have Gaffney and Miller and DD too to think about. So many weapons - so many options. The thing is it's on Palmer to use the weapons if he gets them and thats where an offensive shift in playcalling would be necessary. IMO if you Mix in a dose of DD and 2 pro bowl receivers and you will see a huge difference in the Offenses production numbers.

my 2 yards

This is also a good point, but I think we could find a good WR to compliment Andre in the draft. Like how the Colts drafted Wayne to compliment Harrison so Harrison won't see that many double teams or like how Denver drafted Lelie so Smith won't see so many double teams.

WWJD
02-22-2005, 05:16 PM
I'd read conflicting reports that Randy Moss might be traded also; adding another quality receiver to be had by some team. Although his conduct might turn some off I suppose but I imagine there would be plenty of interest irregardless.

twinkletwinkle
02-22-2005, 05:42 PM
Blue Steele Baltimore is the third youngest? Maybe but how old are Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis?? They dont make an impact or anything.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-22-2005, 06:04 PM
Blue Steele Baltimore is the third youngest? Maybe but how old are Ray Lewis and Jamal Lewis?? They dont make an impact or anything.




Ray - 29
Jamal - 25

I don't see much of a problem there.

Blake
02-23-2005, 11:46 AM
Coles has an arthritic bone in his big toe and is afraid to have surgery to remove it because he's worried it won't heal properly. As a medical student I can tell you that arthritis is a degenerative disease which means his toe will get inexorably get worse unless that bone is removed. Any team that signs him should make it a condition of the signing that he have surgery on it before the season starts. Otherwise, he'll be relying on quick-fix cortisone shots to the toe to make it through the season and that might kill the pain prior to/during a game but it won't help the toe out. Any stress that toe absorbs will only exacerbate the arthritic bone and increase the rate of its disintegration. If he has surgery on it right now, there'll be enough time before the season starts for it to heal.

Uhhh yeah, I was about to say the same thing... about the...stress, bone, arthritic, disintegration.....ok im done.

texasguy346
02-23-2005, 12:48 PM
Uhhh yeah, I was about to say the same thing... about the...stress, bone, arthritic, disintegration.....ok im done.

Doesn't everybody know about Coles' toe. Get with the program DC ROCK or do we need to start quizzing the board about AJ's left big toe?

twinkletwinkle
02-23-2005, 02:46 PM
Wow DCowboysGal is hot! oh yeah and smart.