PDA

View Full Version : Updated Corner Statistics


Goatcheese
10-30-2009, 07:05 PM
It's been a few weeks (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65832) since we last took a look at the Texans corner statistics, so I figured it was a good time for an update.

They are sorted by the rankings column, which is a formula taking into account plays in coverage, yards, and receptions. It's not perfect, but it will do as a preliminary sort, and does correspond for the most part with who I think are the best cover corners.

CS1 is yards surrendered per play in coverage. (Lower is better)
CS2 is plays in coverage per reception allowed. (Higher is better)

These rankings are only coverage stats, and don't include the player's value in run support, or as a playmaker (INTs, Fumbles, Defensive TDs). They are not adjusted for strength of competition.

Green = above average for the 75 corners tracked
Red = bellow average

A handful of players have been discarded from this table for limited sample size, though their play would put them in the top 32. Darius Butler (NE) is the highest rated player I've tracked, with a ranking score of 106.58, but that is largely influenced by his limited number of snaps, and the WRs he's covered as the nickle/dime corner.

*Snaps, plays in coverage, yards, Thrown at and Receptions courtesy of Profootballfocus.com
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/StartingCornersCoverStats.jpg

Glover Quin is 41st.

With Reeves at 16 and Robinson at 24 the Texans have a top 10 cover corner tandem, even if they're not exactly exciting playmakers.

Robinson would actually be ranked a lot higher if the receptions he allowed were not 13 yards down the field. Help over the top, and a better passrush would help that.

Section516
10-30-2009, 07:20 PM
Interesting!

powerfuldragon
10-30-2009, 08:09 PM
Jack Reeve is TERRIBLE

D-Frank
10-31-2009, 03:34 AM
great read

CloakNNNdagger
10-31-2009, 08:26 AM
Jack Reeve is TERRIBLE

Then what does this report say about Dunta?:thinking:

gtexan02
10-31-2009, 09:26 AM
Then what does this report say about Dunta?:thinking:

I think he was being sarcastic. Reeves has easily been our best cornerback this year and last year. Excellent signing by our FO.

I can't believe Aso has only been thrown at 8 times all year

infantrycak
10-31-2009, 09:46 AM
It's been a few weeks (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=65832) since we last took a look at the Texans corner statistics, so I figured it was a good time for an update.

Please provide a link each time you quote or screen capture from another site. Thanks.

76Texan
10-31-2009, 09:46 AM
I think he was being sarcastic. Reeves has easily been our best cornerback this year and last year. Excellent signing by our FO.

I can't believe Aso has only been thrown at 8 times all year

How many games has he played in?

And I disagree about Reeves being our best CB.
But everybody has the rights to think what they want! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

dalemurphy
10-31-2009, 10:23 AM
How many games has he played in?

And I disagree about Reeves being our best CB.
But everybody has the rights to think what they want! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Reeves was clearly the best CB on the team last year. This year, I'm not sure, but I may give the nod to Glover Quin.

Goatcheese
10-31-2009, 10:26 AM
Please provide a link each time you quote or screen capture from another site. Thanks.

The stats are from the same site (http://profootballfocus.com/home.php?tab=home) as the last thread, and the image is from my excel spreadsheet.

superdave532
10-31-2009, 10:35 AM
How many games has he played in?


All of them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4489

76Texan
10-31-2009, 10:42 AM
all of them.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerid=4489

lol!

76Texan
10-31-2009, 10:43 AM
Reeves was clearly the best CB on the team last year. This year, I'm not sure, but I may give the nod to Glover Quin.

Thorn has whiskey.
What do y'a drink, dale? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

infantrycak
10-31-2009, 10:45 AM
The stats are from the same site (http://profootballfocus.com/home.php?tab=home) as the last thread, and the image is from my excel spreadsheet.

I understand that the stats are from the same site but we need a link each time to avoid Texanstalk getting in trouble. If someone from profootballfocus.com saw this post they aren't going to research if they have ever been given credit before. And clearly all the color and content even if dumped into your spreadsheet comes from them. Just help us out in not getting the site in trouble, ok?

dalemurphy
10-31-2009, 10:45 AM
Thorn has whiskey.
What do y'a drink, dale? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

personal preference is beer/wine
Barrett makes me drink whiskey at the football games.

dalemurphy
10-31-2009, 10:47 AM
Thorn has whiskey.
What do y'a drink, dale? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

By the way, I'm not trying to insult Dunta. I have more confidence in Dunta. I just wanted to pay some respect to Quin's play the first half of this season. He was playing well when Dunta was shaking off the rust, Reeves was hobbled, and Bennett was hurting my eyes!

76Texan
10-31-2009, 10:53 AM
By the way, I'm not trying to insult Dunta. I have more confidence in Dunta. I just wanted to pay some respect to Quin's play the first half of this season. He was playing well when Dunta was shaking off the rust, Reeves was hobbled, and Bennett was hurting my eyes!

I think I understand!

Reeves improved in the last half of the year in 08.
I hope he continues to improve.

IMO, Dunta is still the best CB we have; you have to project a player through at least some 8-10 games to value him, I would think.

Quin had his bad moments early on, but I'm liking him more and more.
Looks like he has a bright future. But then again, it's too early to say!

Goatcheese
10-31-2009, 10:57 AM
I understand that the stats are from the same site but we need a link each time to avoid Texanstalk getting in trouble. If someone from profootballfocus.com saw this post they aren't going to research if they have ever been given credit before. And clearly all the color and content even if dumped into your spreadsheet comes from them. Just help us out in not getting the site in trouble, ok?

Sure, I edited this into my OP.

*Snaps, plays in coverage, yards, Thrown at and Receptions courtesy of Profootballfocus.com

dalemurphy
10-31-2009, 11:10 AM
I think I understand!

Reeves improved in the last half of the year in 08.
I hope he continues to improve.

IMO, Dunta is still the best CB we have; you have to project a player through at least some 8-10 games to value him, I would think.

Quin had his bad moments early on, but I'm liking him more and more.
Looks like he has a bright future. But then again, it's too early to say!

I love Dunta! I think he's a good CB and a better football player. He, understandably, had a poor season last year and I think was misused during Richard Smith's tenure. He is great in zone coverage, when he has some freedom to look into the backfield. If we had a true shutdown corner on the other side, he'd make as many plays as Ronde Barber has over the course of his career. I'm expecting to see Dunta do some blitzing as the season wears on. He sure was a good CB blitzer back in 2004-05. I'm surprised we haven't seen it this year.

76Texan
10-31-2009, 11:14 AM
I love Dunta! I think he's a good CB and a better football player. He, understandably, had a poor season last year and I think was misused during Richard Smith's tenure. He is great in zone coverage, when he has some freedom to look into the backfield. If we had a true shutdown corner on the other side, he'd make as many plays as Ronde Barber has over the course of his career. I'm expecting to see Dunta do some blitzing as the season wears on. He sure was a good CB blitzer back in 2004-05. I'm surprised we haven't seen it this year.

As long as our LBs are still getting torched, I don't think we'll see a corner blitz, LOL!

dalemurphy
10-31-2009, 11:18 AM
As long as our LBs are still getting torched, I don't think we'll see a corner blitz, LOL!

well, I've seen Quin blitz some. I'm sure that is partly due to the fact that he lines up over the slot WR. Still, an occasional CB blitz can be effective, particularly in zone blitzing scenarios when Barwin (for instance) can drop into the passing lane and take out the slant. I don't want to see it happen all the time, but an occasional one would be nice. Dunta can get there and finish, and, we need players that can finish at the QB.

76Texan
10-31-2009, 11:23 AM
well, I've seen Quin blitz some. I'm sure that is partly due to the fact that he lines up over the slot WR. Still, an occasional CB blitz can be effective, particularly in zone blitzing scenarios when Barwin (for instance) can drop into the passing lane and take out the slant. I don't want to see it happen all the time, but an occasional one would be nice. Dunta can get there and finish, and, we need players that can finish at the QB.

You're right!

I'm just poking fun at our LBs that's all, LOL!

dalemurphy
10-31-2009, 11:32 AM
You're right!

I'm just poking fun at our LBs that's all, LOL!

Poking fun... I'm busy thanking God for them! It's going to take more than 1/2 of a game versus Vernon Davis to make me take off my rose colored glasses when I'm watching those studs play football!

76Texan
10-31-2009, 11:36 AM
Poking fun... I'm busy thanking God for them! It's going to take more than 1/2 of a game versus Vernon Davis to make me take off my rose colored glasses when I'm watching those studs play football!

Wasn't the first game I warn about our LBs' need to improve in coverage.
If only the coaches can just put them in a scheme where they mostly have the plays in front of them, they'd be monster!

Goatcheese
10-31-2009, 08:24 PM
Updated with some of the latest stats, and a more accurate color coding system.

Some folks took a dive and our guys got bumped up to 15th and 21st.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/2009NFLStartingCornerStats.jpg

Goatcheese
10-31-2009, 08:27 PM
Wasn't the first game I warn about our LBs' need to improve in coverage.
If only the coaches can just put them in a scheme where they mostly have the plays in front of them, they'd be monster!

Diles has been outstanding in coverage. He's been thrown at 8 times, and allowed 5 receptions for 16 yards(long of 7) in 7 games.

Goatcheese
11-05-2009, 05:54 PM
Texans corners continue to slide up the charts after fantastic week 8 performances. Reeves climbed one slot to 14th, and Robinson climbed 2 spots to 19th.

Robinson gave up just 9 yards, and Reeves just 4.

Robinson continues to be one of the least thrown at starters in the NFL, ranking 7th lowest in Thrown At %.

Note that Colts rookie Powers is #3.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/NFLStartingCornersWeek8.jpg

JimC
11-05-2009, 07:58 PM
well, I've seen Quin blitz some. I'm sure that is partly due to the fact that he lines up over the slot WR. Still, an occasional CB blitz can be effective, particularly in zone blitzing scenarios when Barwin (for instance) can drop into the passing lane and take out the slant. I don't want to see it happen all the time, but an occasional one would be nice. Dunta can get there and finish, and, we need players that can finish at the QB.

After players were out of position in the first three weeks, the Texans defense had to go back to basics. It has worked out well for them. The players seem to have mastered their roles in the base defense at this point.

That creates a unique opportunity this week. Now Bush can put in some wrinkles, looks and blitzes that have never been put on film before. Given how much Manning studies -- and depends upon -- film, I expect to see some new things this week from the Texans defense trying to catch Manning by surprise.

I suspect that is why Cushing practiced this Wednesday even though he has been skipping most Wednesday practices.

JimC
11-05-2009, 08:01 PM
Texans corners continue to slide up the charts after fantastic week 8 performances. Reeves climbed one slot to 14th, and Robinson climbed 2 spots to 19th.

Robinson gave up just 9 yards, and Reeves just 4.

Robinson continues to be one of the least thrown at starters in the NFL, ranking 7th lowest in Thrown At %.


It is really nice to see Champ Bailey and Antonio Cromartie -- two very well respected NFL cornerbacks -- sandwiched right between two of our corners.

Goatcheese
11-06-2009, 01:48 AM
It is really nice to see Champ Bailey and Antonio Cromartie -- two very well respected NFL cornerbacks -- sandwiched right between two of our corners.

And Reeves is on the heels of media darling Darrelle Revis. :heart:

whiskeyrbl
11-06-2009, 06:00 AM
Jack Reeve is TERRIBLE

Who is he?


:jk:

HOU-TEX
11-06-2009, 08:47 AM
I guess I really don't understand the ranking. Dunta's number look like crap. Over 63% completion rate on him at 8 yards a pop?

Meh, Peyton's probably laughing his ass off at these rankings.

dalemurphy
11-06-2009, 09:04 AM
I guess I really don't understand the ranking. Dunta's number look like crap. Over 63% completion rate on him at 8 yards a pop?

Meh, Peyton's probably laughing his ass off at these rankings.

Because the frequency of targets is accounted for as well. Otherwise, Nnamdi Aso.. would be the worst CB in football- he's given up a 90% completion rate. Of course, he's only been targeted once per game.

HOU-TEX
11-06-2009, 09:20 AM
Because the frequency of targets is accounted for as well. Otherwise, Nnamdi Aso.. would be the worst CB in football- he's given up a 90% completion rate. Of course, he's only been targeted once per game.

Dunta's been thrown at 33 times with 63% completion rate. To me, that sucks

dalemurphy
11-06-2009, 09:40 AM
Dunta's been thrown at 33 times with 63% completion rate. To me, that sucks

I'm not defending him, I'm just explaining the chart. Those are 33 times but he was in coverage 272 times. The chart grabs a percentage and it is quite low. If you look at the CBs below him, they have much higher REC%, which I believe is the number of times the CB gives up a catch while in coverage.

jppaul
11-06-2009, 12:04 PM
Reeves was clearly the best CB on the team last year. This year, I'm not sure, but I may give the nod to Glover Quin.

I don't think you can really say that. Quin is clearly our best run support CB so far, and Reeves is the better cover corner to this point.

DexmanC
11-06-2009, 12:16 PM
well, I've seen Quin blitz some. I'm sure that is partly due to the fact that he lines up over the slot WR. Still, an occasional CB blitz can be effective, particularly in zone blitzing scenarios when Barwin (for instance) can drop into the passing lane and take out the slant. I don't want to see it happen all the time, but an occasional one would be nice. Dunta can get there and finish, and, we need players that can finish at the QB.

Barwin is a much better athlete than Jesse Nading, and since he's a former
TE, his hands should be better too. How many times have we seen Barwin
tip a ball he had no business touching? Man can JUMP!

Goatcheese
11-06-2009, 02:55 PM
I guess I really don't understand the ranking. Dunta's number look like crap. Over 63% completion rate on him at 8 yards a pop?

Meh, Peyton's probably laughing his ass off at these rankings.

Dunta's been thrown at 33 times with 63% completion rate. To me, that sucks

YPA and Completion Percent are not an effective way to measure a shutdown corner. If that was the standard we graded people by Nnamdi Asomugha would be dead last.

If a corner spends 500 plays in coverage, is thrown at 5 times, and allows 5 receptions for 50 yards every season, his YPA and Completion % will look like crap. In reality he is on his way to the hall of fame as one of the greatest corners to ever take the field.

My rankings go much deeper and look at a corner's real impact on the game.

Dunta Robinson has spent 272 plays in coverage. He is thrown at just 12.1% of those plays, which is the 7th lowest among 64 starting corners. He allows a reception on just 7.7% of passing attempts, which is 15th best. He gives up 0.95 yards per play in coverage, good for 21st best.

Forcing the QB to throw away from you because you've got lockdown coverage on your man is the definition of a shutdown corner. There's a reason D-Rob earned the nickname "The Blanket", because that's how he covers his man.

Asomugha's 5.5% TA% is the reason I call him vanishing cream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAUiY6PBCgY&feature=PlayList&p=F5B105B1B89E80D3&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=95). You put him on a receiver and they disappear.

dalemurphy
11-06-2009, 03:07 PM
YPA and Completion Percent are not an effective way to measure a shutdown corner. If that was the standard we graded people by Nnamdi Asomugha would be dead last.

If a corner spends 500 plays in coverage, is thrown at 5 times, and allows 5 receptions for 50 yards every season, his YPA and Completion % will look like crap. In reality he is on his way to the hall of fame as one of the greatest corners to ever take the field.

My rankings go much deeper and look at a corner's real impact on the game.

Dunta Robinson has spent 272 plays in coverage. He is thrown at just 12.1% of those plays, which is the 7th lowest among 64 starting corners. He allows a reception on just 7.7% of passing attempts, which is 15th best. He gives up 0.95 yards per play in coverage, good for 21st best.

Forcing the QB to throw away from you because you've got lockdown coverage on your man is the definition of a shutdown corner. There's a reason D-Rob earned the nickname "The Blanket", because that's how he covers his man.

Asomugha's 5.5% TA% is the reason I call him vanishing cream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EAUiY6PBCgY&feature=PlayList&p=F5B105B1B89E80D3&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=95). You put him on a receiver and they disappear.

How often the CB matches up on the top WR... and, whether there is safety help or not are two other factors difficult to measure.

I think this season is the first in which Dunta has been switching sides and matching up on WRs instead of just playing his side. So, I think we should give the guy some credit. He's doing a good job for this team. Frankly, a solid but quiet campaign from him this season is ideal for the team this year and its hopes to re-sign him after the season.

Goatcheese
11-06-2009, 03:33 PM
How often the CB matches up on the top WR... and, whether there is safety help or not are two other factors difficult to measure.

I think this season is the first in which Dunta has been switching sides and matching up on WRs instead of just playing his side. So, I think we should give the guy some credit. He's doing a good job for this team. Frankly, a solid but quiet campaign from him this season is ideal for the team this year and its hopes to re-sign him after the season.

I've noticed they're making D-Rob earn his money following around the opponents #1 guy most of the time. He seems to be up to the task so far.

The Texans don't seem to give their corners a lot of help over the top. When we have more than 1 guy deep it's usually because we're in cover-3 or quarters, which leaves the corners isolated deep anyways.

Overall I've been pleasantly surprised. I was down on Reeves last year, and I thought missing camp/preseason would hurt these two, but they're holding up really well to this point. They have two huge tests coming up with a double dose of manning in the next 3 games. We'll see if they're for real or not.

Goatcheese
11-12-2009, 01:00 AM
Texans Corners continue their rise up the charts even after facing the Forehead.

Jacquees Reeves leaps 7 spots to 8th after giving up 33 yards on 5 targets, and 2 receptions. Most of it came on one 26 yard pass.

You read that correctly. Petey Reeves has been the 8th best cover corner in the NFL this season.

Dunta Robinson jumps 4 spots to 15th after giving up 24 yards on 4 targets and 3 receptions, with a long of 12.

D-Rob is now the 4th least thrown at starter, and Reeves is 6th. :heart:

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/Week9updatedCornerStats.jpg

How scary is Philly with the 2nd and 3rd best corners?

For fun I've included a look back at previous seasons to see just how much they've improved.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/DaysofYore.jpg

Malloy
11-12-2009, 03:31 AM
Interesting, I guess we have an ok secondary? :)

Qman
11-12-2009, 08:09 AM
Interesting, I guess we have an ok secondary? :)

It means we have decent cover corners and a decent pash rush. I think most people would agree that we could use an upgrade at FS.

TexansSeminole
11-12-2009, 12:09 PM
Are you taking into account pass interference? Dunta has been flagged a ton of times this year for PI.

Who do you decide is being thrown at when a receiver catches a ball well in front of zone coverage, as is typical against our team along the sidelines?

Lol @ Andre Goodman and Will Allen as top performing cornerbacks.

TexCanada
11-12-2009, 12:31 PM
It means we have decent cover corners and a decent pash rush. I think most people would agree that we could use an upgrade at FS.

I will be one of those people that agree. I hope we take a FS in the first or second round if there is a capable one available.

infantrycak
11-12-2009, 12:51 PM
Are you taking into account pass interference? Dunta has been flagged a ton of times this year for PI.

profootballfocus just lists penalties and not what they are for. Dunta has 4 penalties on the season and Reeves has 1. Would have to look back at the play by play's to see what was called.

Mr teX
11-12-2009, 01:14 PM
profootballfocus just lists penalties and not what they are for. Dunta has 4 penalties on the season and Reeves has 1. Would have to look back at the play by play's to see what was called.

And at least 1 of those are bogus looking back at the colts game.

Goatcheese
11-12-2009, 03:03 PM
Are you taking into account pass interference? Dunta has been flagged a ton of times this year for PI.

D-Rob has only been flagged a few times, 1 was BS and 2 were technically correct, but ticky tack calls that you usually get away with. A penalty is a no play so is not counted in the stats.


Lol @ Andre Goodman and Will Allen as top performing cornerbacks.

Goodman(2nd) and Allen(4th) are among the best in the league in receptions, and good in other important categories like yards allowed.

Goodman is the reason opposing offenses are throwing at Champ Bailey. Goodman is thrown at 8.7% of the time compared to Bailey's 16.1%. That speaks volumes.

Allen has rookie corners, like Vontae Davis(The worst corner in football), in coverage with him, so his numbers might be slightly inflated because the other corners are a lot easier to throw at. He has still been very good though.

Is there some specific reason you feel that they shouldn't be ranked that high?

76Texan
11-12-2009, 03:14 PM
And at least 1 of those are bogus looking back at the colts game.

In the Jets game, they had one on Dunta; but it was Barber who held the receiver.

TexansSeminole
11-12-2009, 03:20 PM
D-Rob has only been flagged a few times, 1 was BS and 2 were technically correct, but ticky tack calls that you usually get away with. A penalty is a no play so is not counted in the stats.




Goodman(2nd) and Allen(4th) are among the best in the league in receptions, and good in other important categories like yards allowed.

Goodman is the reason opposing offenses are throwing at Champ Bailey. Goodman is thrown at 8.7% of the time compared to Bailey's 16.1%. That speaks volumes.

Allen has rookie corners, like Vontae Davis(The worst corner in football), in coverage with him, so his numbers might be slightly inflated because the other corners are a lot easier to throw at. He has still been very good though.

Is there some specific reason you feel that they shouldn't be ranked that high?

Yea, just simply watching them is my reason. Goodman plays for a team with a great pass rush and great secondary players around him (Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins). You watch Goodman during his career and he hasn't been very good. See Goodman with the Dolphins.

Vontae Davis is the worst corner in football? Seems like that should raise a red flag to what's goin on with those statistics. Vontae Davis had a good game against the Pats with another rookie starting opposite him.

Will Allen is injured for the season. We'll see how that defense performs without him.

I'm not saying those guys suck this year, just as top performing CBs it doesn't seem right if you watch the games.

Goatcheese
11-12-2009, 04:00 PM
Yea, just simply watching them is my reason. Goodman plays for a team with a great pass rush and great secondary players around him (Champ Bailey, Brian Dawkins). You watch Goodman during his career and he hasn't been very good. See Goodman with the Dolphins.

Vontae Davis is the worst corner in football? Seems like that should raise a red flag to what's goin on with those statistics. Vontae Davis had a good game against the Pats with another rookie starting opposite him.

Will Allen is injured for the season. We'll see how that defense performs without him.

I'm not saying those guys suck this year, just as top performing CBs it doesn't seem right if you watch the games.

For a Corner having a great CB opposite you doesn't help you at all. In fact it probably hurts. Just ask the Raiders DBs stuck opposite Aso who get everything thrown their way. When you're only giving up a reception 4.8% of the time, you're really good, no matter who is on defense with you.

Vontae Davis hasn't been given a ton a playing time, largely because he's given up 360 yards in 104 plays in coverage. Sean Smith has been their number 2 guy for the most part, and he's been hot and cold. He'll look great one game, then get torched the next.

TexansSeminole
11-12-2009, 04:51 PM
For a Corner having a great CB opposite you doesn't help you at all. In fact it probably hurts. Just ask the Raiders DBs stuck opposite Aso who get everything thrown their way. When you're only giving up a reception 4.8% of the time, you're really good, no matter who is on defense with you.

Vontae Davis hasn't been given a ton a playing time, largely because he's given up 360 yards in 104 plays in coverage. Sean Smith has been their number 2 guy for the most part, and he's been hot and cold. He'll look great one game, then get torched the next.

Most of my friends around here are Dolphins fans so I watch every game. Vontae Davis had quite a bit of playing time before this past week, and he started against the Pats due to Will Allen's injury. He had a very good interception against Moss in single coverage. He got beat in man coverage against Moss once. He did a pretty good job IMO, and has almost all season.

In regards to the Broncos defense, its all about pressure and good safety play. They get ALOT of pressure on the QB, play their safety conservatively, and allow their corners to play underneath. Even in man coverage, the corners aren't as concerned about the deep ball as you see with other teams due to the safety play. It has bitten them a couple times.

Pressure is another reason these DB stats don't hold a lot of weight with me. If your getting a lot of pressure on the QB it sure is a lot easier on the corner and defensive coordinator. Teams who don't get pressure leave their corners in difficult situations and usually the DC will end up playing safe deep coverages.

If you add our conversation about teams throwing that 10 yard pass along the sidelines against us to the way these stats are collected, I wonder how they calculate some situations. Say a team is in a cover 3 and the receiver catches it cleanly in front of a corner playing deep coverage, do you count that against that receiver? Is it really his fault anyway? Maybe some teams would rather their corner not drop back immediately to try and negate this, maybe they are coached to just turn and run immediately. What if they are in a cover 2 and the WR catches the ball in the hole between the safety and corner, who does that catch go against? How about when a corner gets beat but the receiver drops the ball? Does the corner get rewarded for a receiver dropping a pass? What about plays where its difficult to see which defender blew their coverage? Or plays where mulitple players blow their coverage?

Goatcheese
11-12-2009, 06:18 PM
Most of my friends around here are Dolphins fans so I watch every game. Vontae Davis had quite a bit of playing time before this past week, and he started against the Pats due to Will Allen's injury. He had a very good interception against Moss in single coverage. He got beat in man coverage against Moss once. He did a pretty good job IMO, and has almost all season.

The stats aren't out for the NE game, but through week 8 he had spent 104 plays in coverage and allowed 360 yards. That's 3.46 yards per play in coverage. The second worst is Fabian Washington with a much better 2.11 ypp.

In regards to the Broncos defense, its all about pressure and good safety play. They get ALOT of pressure on the QB, play their safety conservatively, and allow their corners to play underneath. Even in man coverage, the corners aren't as concerned about the deep ball as you see with other teams due to the safety play. It has bitten them a couple times.

They don't put a ton more pressure on QBs than the other top defenses, and a lot of that is because their great DBs force the QB to hold the ball. Scheme plays a role, but that goes for everything. Ultimately the players have to execute.

Pressure is another reason these DB stats don't hold a lot of weight with me. If your getting a lot of pressure on the QB it sure is a lot easier on the corner and defensive coordinator. Teams who don't get pressure leave their corners in difficult situations and usually the DC will end up playing safe deep coverages.

Pressure helps DBs cover. Good coverage helps passrushers get sacks. It's synergy. Nobody complains about Super Mario getting a coverage sack.

If you add our conversation about teams throwing that 10 yard pass along the sidelines against us to the way these stats are collected, I wonder how they calculate some situations. Say a team is in a cover 3 and the receiver catches it cleanly in front of a corner playing deep coverage, do you count that against that receiver? Is it really his fault anyway? Maybe some teams would rather their corner not drop back immediately to try and negate this, maybe they are coached to just turn and run immediately. What if they are in a cover 2 and the WR catches the ball in the hole between the safety and corner, who does that catch go against? How about when a corner gets beat but the receiver drops the ball? Does the corner get rewarded for a receiver dropping a pass? What about plays where its difficult to see which defender blew their coverage? Or plays where mulitple players blow their coverage?

Every inch of the field is technically assigned to some one in a zone coverage. Generally the guy covering the flat is expected to stop anything from the line of scrimmage out to 12-15 yards. Anything completed in his zone is on him. The Deep zone behind him is responsible for everything from 15 yards to the back of the endzone.

The stats are counted just like any other stats in sports. A homerun off of a hanging curveball is still a homerun. A sack because the QB tripped over his own feet and curled up in the fetal position is still a sack. An incompletion because the receiver drops the rock is still an incompletion. A Reception where the DB lost his footing is still a reception.

TexansSeminole
11-12-2009, 06:28 PM
Every inch of the field is technically assigned to some one in a zone coverage. Generally the guy covering the flat is expected to stop anything from the line of scrimmage out to 12-15 yards. Anything completed in his zone is on him. The Deep zone behind him is responsible for everything from 15 yards to the back of the endzone.

The stats are counted just like any other stats in sports. A homerun off of a hanging curveball is still a homerun. A sack because the QB tripped over his own feet and curled up in the fetal position is still a sack. An incompletion because the receiver drops the rock is still an incompletion. A Reception where the DB lost his footing is still a reception.

That doesn't really address my concerns about the way the stats work, or answer any of those questions.

Anyway, there are always holes in zone coverage. You can't assign the entire field out to your 11 guys and realistically expect them to cover it. They shouldn't score it as such either.

Goatcheese
11-27-2009, 07:41 PM
Dunta Robinson slips 1 spot this week after a pedestrian performance against the Tacks, allowing 3 of 4 for 37 yards in 31 plays.

Jacques Reeves didn't get the start this week against the run heavy Titans but had a pretty good day, allowing 1 of 2 for 13 yards in 15 plays. He jumped 5 spots to 3rd place, largely because the field has slipped over the last few weeks. Week 9 there were 10 players with a rating over 20, this week just 3, including Reeves.

Glover Quin got the start, largely for his run support ability, and allowed 2 of 3 for 41 yards in 30 plays.

Robinson is the 3rd least thrown at corner, Reeves 7th and Quin 53rd.

http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/Week11cornerstats132.jpg
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i174/SchoonPK/Updatedcornerstats3364.jpg

Big Lou
11-27-2009, 10:54 PM
So Dunta gave up 37 yards against the Tacks. Hell VY only threw for 116 yards so that says something.

Goatcheese
11-28-2009, 05:58 AM
So Dunta gave up 37 yards against the Tacks. Hell VY only threw for 116 yards so that says something.

He only had 116 yards because nobody was open, despite getting no pressure and our corners having to cover for a long time. D-Rob only gave up 5 receptions for 33 yards in the previous two weeks combined, with over 80 plays in coverage, and over 50 of those against the forehead.

It was an off week for him, but when your off weeks are the league average, that's saying something.

It could be worse. Chris Gamble(the guy who's contract D-Rob's offer is compared to) has given up 145, 52 and 86 yards in his last 3 games. 283 yards vs just 70 for D-Rob's last 3 starts.

Nnamdi Asomugha(the best corner in the NFL) has given up 15, 61, and 23 yards in his last 3 starts. So 99 vs D-Rob's 70. His 61 yards surrendered is more than D-Robs season high of 58 as well.

So perspective is always nice.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-28-2009, 06:20 AM
Maybe we can trade Reeves for Revis and a draft pick since the chart says Reeves is that much better. :thinking:

Goatcheese
11-28-2009, 06:26 AM
Maybe we can trade Reeves for Revis and a draft pick since the chart says Reeves is that much better. :P

This is just an analysis of raw coverage ability, not total player value. I would grade Revis as better all around when you count in run support and ball skills. Plus he's been good longer, where as Reeves was horrible last year, and this year could just be a statistical anomaly. A solar flair of coverage excellence if you will.