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View Full Version : Can DR, Ryans and OD be franchised '10?


badboy
10-27-2009, 12:52 PM
Correct me if I understand free agency for 2010 uncapped wrong, but each team gets an extra franchise tag according to my understanding.

Demeco gets the Franchise Player Exclusive and no team can negotiate. Texans offer 1 year deal avg top 5 MLB or 20% whichever higher.

Owen Daniels: Franchise Player Non-exclusive. Player can negotiate with other teams but Texans can match offer. If no match & player leaves Texans get two first round picks. Would another team give up two firsts for a pro bowl tight end?

DR gets the additional tag offered in uncapped year. I can't find my link from earlier this year explaining how this tag works.

Smith played hardball with these three last off season and could do so again. Through 7 games both Ryans and OD are at pro bowl potential IMO and DR keeps improving. Not sure if he will reach his ceiling soon. Tags would keep all three on the roster and more will be known how CBA will evolve. I know there will be sentiment to keep all three with long term deals, but that might not happen.

barrett
10-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Actually both Ryans and OD would continue to be RFA's for two more years. That's the big issue surrounding all of the discussion about their contracts. They (the players) actually don't have much leverage.

badboy
10-27-2009, 12:58 PM
Actually both Ryans and OD would continue to be RFA's for two more years. That's the big issue surrounding all of the discussion about their contracts. They (the players) actually don't have much leverage.To me this would really effect these players psyche even more so than this season. Neither was very happy.

barrett
10-27-2009, 12:58 PM
http://www.houstondiehards.com/?p=6627

Chris has a blog post about what a great season Open Daniels is having and how expensive he's going to be but in reality, depending on how shrewd my man Rick is going to be, He could get payed the 1st tier tender both seasons. Same with Ryans.

barrett
10-27-2009, 12:59 PM
To me this would really effect these players psyche even more so than this season. Neither was very happy.

I agree. It's a scary thought. But if nothing else it would allow you great leverage in negotiating a "reasonable" contract as opposed to a crippling one.

Yankee_In_TX
10-27-2009, 01:00 PM
To quote myself - pay OD, pay Ryans, and give D-Rob a market value offer.

TheRealJoker
10-27-2009, 01:03 PM
We have 2 tags. The transition tag and the franchise tag.

I say we PAY OD or Ryans, get them locked up before its an issue. But preferably pay both. Use the transition tag on DR only IF he plays like a top 10 CB through the rest of this season. This would allow us to match any offer a team makes for DR albeit we would get no compensation. If he's worth as much to a team as he thinks he is, he'll find out. Ideally he would find out we're making a more than fair offer and just signs with us when nobody caves in to his demands.

Keep the franchise tag out of things unless its an emergency (I.E. OD or DeMeco are on the line).

barrett
10-27-2009, 01:05 PM
But that's the thing. They wouldn't be "on the line". They would be RFA's. Under contract.

Big Lou
10-27-2009, 01:07 PM
To quote myself - pay OD, pay Ryans, and give D-Rob a market value offer.


I know I'm hating on D-Rob a lot lately. I used to be his biggest fan. So what would the "Fair Market Value" be for a 2nd tier pass coverage CB, with outstanding run support ability. Something tells me the figure is not the 23 million offered before. I think he should get a touch more than Reeves only because of his intangibles as a team leader.

TheRealJoker
10-27-2009, 01:08 PM
But that's the thing. They wouldn't be "on the line". They would be RFA's. Under contract.

Is that official? I wasn't aware that there is officially no CBA for 2010.

DiehardChris
10-27-2009, 01:13 PM
Is that official? I wasn't aware that there is officially no CBA for 2010.

A new deal would have to be in place sometime I think in late March. There's been no movement at ALL publicly, but who knows what's going on behind closed doors.

The CBA definitely affects the Texans players, but I think if you want OD and DeMeco to be happy to be a Texan for a long time, you have to pay them and not use the leverage against them, unless the numbers they want are RIDICULOUS.

Being a smart GM certainly involves being shrewd, but you also don't want to piss off your core players too much - plus give the team a bad reputation to potential FAs about how they treat their best guys.

It's a good problem to have (I guess), considering we've never been good enough to have these kind of issues in the past.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2009, 01:26 PM
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/10/27/owen-daniels-thinks-winning-will-cure-contract-issues/

I've tried to not let it be a distraction," Daniels said of his own status as a restricted free agent in 2009 and, most likely, in 2010, "and I think I've proven I won't let it be a distraction. I think if we can be a winning team, then a lot of people will be happy to stick around and continue play for this team and continue to play for our owner, our G.M., and our coach.

Yankee_In_TX
10-27-2009, 01:40 PM
I know I'm hating on D-Rob a lot lately. I used to be his biggest fan. So what would the "Fair Market Value" be for a 2nd tier pass coverage CB, with outstanding run support ability. Something tells me the figure is not the 23 million offered before. I think he should get a touch more than Reeves only because of his intangibles as a team leader.

I would want it compared to similar players around the league, but essentially, yah. Don't overpay him, he clearly doesn't deserve top 5 CB pay.

I like(d) his attitude and want him here, but not if we have to over pay.

barrett
10-27-2009, 02:10 PM
The way Daniels is talking makes me thing that Mr. McNair's public statement last week of "win and you will get paid" has really been a brilliant move. It seems clear to me that Mr. McNair is asking the players to not only perform on an individual level but more importantly, as a team, challenge each other to raise each others level of play. Making each other accountable is the healthiest foundation for building a winner. The Texans have all these key players in contract situations that are the foundation of the future of the team. He's asking them to put the team on their shoulders and carry them to success as a group. Forming yet another solid foundation for success. You have to have the talent but we've got some of that and the depth is better than it's ever been .

One of the smartest things Bob has ever done.

Double Barrel
10-27-2009, 02:28 PM
The way Daniels is talking makes me thing that Mr. McNair's public statement last week of "win and you will get paid" has really been a brilliant move.

If it wasn't for PSL's, Houston fans would be saying the same to Bob McNair. ;)

badboy
10-27-2009, 02:44 PM
http://www.houstondiehards.com/?p=6627

Chris has a blog post about what a great season Open Daniels is having and how expensive he's going to be but in reality, depending on how shrewd my man Rick is going to be, He could get payed the 1st tier tender both seasons. Same with Ryans.I would love to have OD and Ryans back at least 2 more seasons IF it doesn't put the team back into salary cap hell. Having said that, there will be no salary cap next year so could McNair be willing to really increase pay for certain pro bowl type players? Once CBA is re-negotiated could these type players be grandfathered so salary does not effect new cap? There will be a new cap but players will have to give up a lot of the percentage the players union has gotten in the past.

My concern is that Smith may decide long term deal may not be best for OD who will be 27 in Nov. A 3 year deal with an option seems about right. Will our other TEs effect the negotiating? I think it definitely did before this season began. On Ryans, could Smith say a first or 2nd round take his place? I keep thinking both of these guys will be signed but the season keeps sliding on by.

badboy
10-27-2009, 02:46 PM
To quote myself - pay OD, pay Ryans, and give D-Rob a market value offer.Did yourself say this prior to game one this season? How did that work out for you cause it seems Smith did not listen to you.

Runner
10-27-2009, 02:48 PM
The way Daniels is talking makes me thing that Mr. McNair's public statement last week of "win and you will get paid" has really been a brilliant move.

If it wasn't for PSL's, Houston fans would be saying the same to Bob McNair. ;)

Those PSLs are an application of leverage to keep the money flowing when the Texans as a whole can't field a team that guarantees high season ticket and sell out rates. You should be honored by the team's shrewdness.

:)

badboy
10-27-2009, 02:52 PM
We have 2 tags. The transition tag and the franchise tag.

I say we PAY OD or Ryans, get them locked up before its an issue. But preferably pay both. Use the transition tag on DR only IF he plays like a top 10 CB through the rest of this season. This would allow us to match any offer a team makes for DR albeit we would get no compensation. If he's worth as much to a team as he thinks he is, he'll find out. Ideally he would find out we're making a more than fair offer and just signs with us when nobody caves in to his demands.

Keep the franchise tag out of things unless its an emergency (I.E. OD or DeMeco are on the line).As stated in the thread, my understanding is the NFL is giving teams an extra tag for next year as an uncapped year. The 2nd paragraph of your post is great except that was tried before this season so what has changed?

Double Barrel
10-27-2009, 04:19 PM
Those PSLs are an application of leverage to keep the money flowing when the Texans as a whole can't field a team that guarantees high season ticket and sell out rates. You should be honored by the team's shrewdness.

:)

One of the smartest things Bob has ever done. :spin:

CloakNNNdagger
10-27-2009, 04:49 PM
Many unrestricted FAs of last offseason will be crowned restricted FAs this next offseason. Many more unhappy campers than ever before.

As an aside, richer franchises are very likely to use the uncapped year like a FA buffet......spending like the government while the people pay.........tickets like a miracle are likely to go up.....and up........and up in "value"........and not because they're printed with gold leaf.:roast:

TimeKiller
10-27-2009, 05:32 PM
I'd pay Ryans forever. Lock OD into a 1/3 round tender (no one is giving up two firsts) and consider the options that come from it. Dunta can like the average CB contract he gets (won't be no damn 23 million) or lump it. Thus far he's proven Smith right in making him earn his big bucks. Ain't worth it. You had your say now here is mine, you get paid like the just-a-guy you are or go find someone who thinks like you (being a top CB)

Runner
10-27-2009, 05:52 PM
Note: I moved the discussion of cell phone blocking within Reliant to the Tailgate section.

gary
10-27-2009, 07:39 PM
OD and Ryans are locks and should be paid sooner rather than later. As for Dunte there will be only two options left for him once this season is over either be paid market value or leave either through a trade or on his own because the bottom line is OD and Ryans have lots more value to the team than a non top five CB has. Dunte is good at what he does but he isn't as good as OD and Ryans are both better at what they do and that is fact. I'd like Dunte to stay here as long he continues to play as well as he has been playing thus far and is happy with a reasonable contract that still gives the Texans a chane to keep all three of them. Dunte has to want to play here though if not, the Texans had better part ways with Dunte instead of OD and Ryans. All three guys are very key to the preformence level for Houston so I hope some type of deal is worked out in order for all three to stay long term and bring this city of great Houston Texans fans not only our first ring but many over the course of the few seasons. What do you all say? GO TEXANS

keyser
10-27-2009, 07:45 PM
One question I've had for a while: Is there any discussion of what would be expected to be in a new CBA if reached after next season? The only thing I've heard is that owners want draftee salaries slotted. Here's what I'm really wondering:

Let's say that McNair decides he doesn't care about money but wants to keep players like DeMeco, Daniels, and any other non-free agent you can think of. Is there any reason he couldn't pay them some outrageous salary next year, treating it like a huge signing bonus, but putting it all into one year's salary? For example, signing a 15 year deal with some minimum salary per year, except 75 million dollars next year. So, if a new CBA handled a salary cap similar to the current one, that salary wouldn't even be considered. Effectively, it would be a way to lock up players really long term, without any major salary cap hit. Of course, there's also the danger that the player will decide to quit after one year, since there's little incentive to keep playing...

The problem is, every owner could do this, and it seems like that would really mess up any future CBA, since there'd have to be some way of dealing with such contracts, in a way different than the current contract. Has anyone heard whether there's any discussion of how things like this might be handled in a post-uncapped year CBA?

ChrisG
10-27-2009, 08:35 PM
i say NO to franchsing them.

LOCK UP OD AND DeMeco long term (5 + years) and try to resign Robinson (if possible)

SAMURAITEXAN
10-27-2009, 09:28 PM
All I want to say is just pay Ryans and OD! For DR, show us you deserve to be paid top 5 CB this season.

Go Texans!!!

DerekLee1
10-27-2009, 09:45 PM
To quote myself - pay OD, pay Ryans, and give D-Rob a market value offer.

And front-load those offers so the bonuses are paid out heavily in the uncapped year so we don't get stuck when the cap returns in 2011.

DerekLee1
10-27-2009, 09:53 PM
The problem is, every owner could do this, and it seems like that would really mess up any future CBA, since there'd have to be some way of dealing with such contracts, in a way different than the current contract. Has anyone heard whether there's any discussion of how things like this might be handled in a post-uncapped year CBA?

Every owner COULD do this, but likely wouldn't. I think you'll see a LOT of holdouts next offseason as players will want to rape their franchises for contract renegotiations during the uncapped year. For guys that come up as free agents at the end of this season, I think they'll have some front-loaded contracts to ease future cap restrictions. This is HUGE for the Texans, as we have three KEY players due up at the end of this season.

However, for the most part, I think you'll see most GM's play it conservatively, though, and have their own soft "cap" for their team, and will keep it close to what the cap WOULD have been. It's Dan Snyder that could f it all up, though. That dude scares me, and I think he'll overpay every free agent he can.