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eriadoc
10-25-2009, 04:47 PM
... is killing me. I've always been of the mindset that I prefer a every-down back that can give me a steady diet of 4-yd. gains than one who takes losses and then pops a big one. I know different people have different views on that, so fine. Slaton clearly falls into the latter category, so it's always been hard for me to get behind him as an every-down back.

But the fumbles are killing whatever enthusiasm I force myself to come up with for the guy. I love the screens and pitches, as that's the role I envision for him anyway, but if he can't hang onto the ball, I don't want him on the field. If we can't run the ball, we may as well not have the associated fumbles. If he fumbles again next week, I'm starting the official "Fire Steve Slaton" thread.

TheIronDuke
10-25-2009, 04:49 PM
I have more faith in Jacoby fielding a punt than I do in Slaton running the ball. That says it all.

MEGA SWATT
10-25-2009, 04:52 PM
Fumbles are part of the game. I would not go to that extreme you talk about in your post. He will work on it and cut them down imo, but if you are an aggressive back in the NFL, it will always be a part of the game.......

TheIronDuke
10-25-2009, 04:56 PM
Slaton's tied with the league lead in fumbles with four. That doesn't count the several times fumbles have been overturned by replay. He puts the ball on the ground far too much for what he brings in the running game.

At this point, I would only use him for screens and as a receiver but someone else has got to run the rock IMO.

GuerillaBlack
10-25-2009, 04:56 PM
He needs to find Tiki Barber's number.

eriadoc
10-25-2009, 04:56 PM
Fumbles are part of the game. I would not go to that extreme you talk about in your post. He will work on it and cut them down imo, but if you are an aggressive back in the NFL, it will always be a part of the game.......

He carries the ball in traffic the same way he carries it in the open field - out to the side, in the crook of his arm. You have to get two arms on the ball in traffic and get it in tight to your body. If he's been working on that, it sure isn't translating to his play, because we see the same thing in the replays every time.

GuerillaBlack
10-25-2009, 04:59 PM
He carries the ball in traffic the same way he carries it in the open field - out to the side, in the crook of his arm. You have to get two arms on the ball in traffic and get it in tight to your body. If he's been working on that, it sure isn't translating to his play, because we see the same thing in the replays every time.

I saw some of it once he came back after his benching.

Scooter
10-25-2009, 05:00 PM
chris brown is the better RUNNING BACK this season. slaton needs to be relegated to a reggie bush receiver/decoy/screen type role until he figures it out. honestly, i really think brown and slaton should be reversed in their roles - brown toting the rock between the 20's and slaton giving us more options near the goalline and on short yardage situations. we block downhill with brown carrying, as opposed to hoping for a lane for slaton to find - creating excessive and unnecessary penetration against our weak interior line. bring in moats to split time with brown and mix slaton into the formations that work for the offense instead of forcing the offense through slaton.

and for the fumbles, slaton should absolutely be sat next week. we know kubiak is going to give his players every opportunity to try to make plays even more so when they're struggling (sage and schaub being the key examples), but this is getting out of hand. if we're counting the plays he's gotten an overturn from, slaton's averaging more than a fumble per game.

Mailman
10-25-2009, 05:07 PM
There is no way in hell Slaton should be benched. He is easily the best playmaker in the backfield and he poses a big threat every time he touches the ball, especially if they can get it to him on screen passes and such. He is much quicker and faster than Brown. He will get his fumblitis straightened out, even if it means giving up at the end of plays and going down. His fumbles are a result of him trying to do too much.

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:15 PM
chris brown is the better RUNNING BACK this season. slaton needs to be relegated to a reggie bush receiver/decoy/screen type role until he figures it out. honestly, i really think brown and slaton should be reversed in their roles - brown toting the rock between the 20's and slaton giving us more options near the goalline and on short yardage situations. we block downhill with brown carrying, as opposed to hoping for a lane for slaton to find - creating excessive and unnecessary penetration against our weak interior line. bring in moats to split time with brown and mix slaton into the formations that work for the offense instead of forcing the offense through slaton.

and for the fumbles, slaton should absolutely be sat next week. we know kubiak is going to give his players every opportunity to try to make plays even more so when they're struggling (sage and schaub being the key examples), but this is getting out of hand. if we're counting the plays he's gotten an overturn from, slaton's averaging more than a fumble per game.

:gun:

m5kwatts
10-25-2009, 05:16 PM
His thumb was bothering him during the game, is this a factor?

Marcus
10-25-2009, 05:17 PM
There is no way in hell Slaton should be benched. He is easily the best playmaker in the backfield and he poses a big threat every time he touches the ball, especially if they can get it to him on screen passes and such. He is much quicker and faster than Brown. He will get his fumblitis straightened out, even if it means giving up at the end of plays and going down. His fumbles are a result of him trying to do too much.

Then why didn't he have this problem last year? And I dispute your contention that's he's the best playmaker in the backfield. Moats has been more effective this year. Why he's not playing more is a mystery to me.

gtexan02
10-25-2009, 05:17 PM
Slatons fumbles are the OLs fault in my opinion. Slaton is having to fight for every yard like he's never had to before. He leaves himself open to guys stripping the ball more than any back Ive seen. He refuses to go down from the first hit.

Hes not coughing the ball up randomly. Those fumbles are the work of guys literally pulling and pulling at the ball.

BSofA04
10-25-2009, 05:18 PM
He may not be benched, but this has become a common trend that is concering. It seems like his extra efforts are what's that problem with his fumblitis. Take what you can get and that's it. Better to be safe than to turn the ball over. Word.

Scooter
10-25-2009, 05:18 PM
i know it's procedure to see the points he's putting on the board, especially after a win, but how many points has slaton taken OFF the board? jets was inside the 20 (they scored off of). today was on the opponent's 33 (they scored off of). he has 5 other fumbles and two of them lost which i'll have to go back and find. is his dynamic play winning the numbers?

gtexan02
10-25-2009, 05:19 PM
Then why didn't he have this problem last year? And I dispute your contention that's he's the best playmaker in the backfield. Moats has been more effective this year. Why he's not playing more is a mystery to me.

lol, there goes that credibility. Moats had one ok game. Slaton has scored 4 times in the past 2 weeks. Like the fumbles or not, he's been a HUGE factor for us. They announcers put up a stat today that said SLaton is 3rd in the NFL for total yards per game over the last 3 or 4 weeks.

eriadoc
10-25-2009, 05:20 PM
Slatons fumbles are the OLs fault in my opinion. Slaton is having to fight for every yard like he's never had to before. He leaves himself open to guys stripping the ball more than any back Ive seen. He refuses to go down from the first hit.

Hes not coughing the ball up randomly. Those fumbles are the work of guys literally pulling and pulling at the ball.

And that's the part that's on him. When he gets in traffic, he needs to cover it up. No excuse for that.

Scooter
10-25-2009, 05:20 PM
:gun:

chris brown as a goalline back 3.3ypc
steve slaton as open field back 3.0ypc

?

gtexan02
10-25-2009, 05:21 PM
chris brown as a goalline back 3.3ypc
steve slaton as open field back 3.0ypc

?

chris brown as a goal line back - 1 td
steve slaton as open field back - 5 tds

gtexan02
10-25-2009, 05:23 PM
And that's the part that's on him. When he gets in traffic, he needs to cover it up. No excuse for that.

What I meant by "leaves himself open" is that whether hes got 2 hands or not, he's taking 2 or 3 seconds to go down every time he runs up ht emiddle. Most guys get hit, fall down. Slaton is getting stood up or trying to lose guys every single time he gets hit in the middle. As such, he's giving guys an extra 2 or 3 seconds to get other defenders in there to help strip the ball every single time.

The other problem with fumbling is that it begets more fumbling. You get labeled as a fumbler and guys start trying to stand you up and strip the ball

Jottoz
10-25-2009, 05:25 PM
The team we thumped last week is up 28-0 on CHI!

Feels good

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:26 PM
chris brown as a goalline back 3.3ypc
steve slaton as open field back 3.0ypc

?

chris brown as a goal line back - 1 td
steve slaton as open field back - 5 tds

This. Rep to you.

Chris Brown: has lost us two games by himself
Steve Slaton: having some trouble holding onto the ball

I'll take Steve Slaton.

Pantherstang84
10-25-2009, 05:27 PM
This. Rep to you.

Chris Brown: has lost us two games by himself
Steve Slaton: having some trouble holding onto the ball

I'll take Steve Slaton.

???

Scooter
10-25-2009, 05:27 PM
chris brown as a goal line back - 1 td
steve slaton as open field back - 5 tds

this can go on all day

steve slaton 91 carries - 1 TD
chris brown 32 carries - 1 TD

as a RUNNING BACK chris brown has been more effective, especially with a longer field. slaton has been at his best this season in open field as a receiver and screen runner. as a RUNNING BACK steve slaton's biggest mark has been his inability to hold onto the ball.

i've got all the confidence in the world that he's going to get it fixed, but right now it seems i'm talking to saints fans 2 years ago.

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:28 PM
???

I'll take Jacksonville and Arizona for 2000, Alex.

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:29 PM
this can go on all day

steve slaton 91 carries - 1 TD
chris brown 32 carries - 1 TD

as a RUNNING BACK chris brown has been more effective, especially with a longer field. slaton has been at his best this season in open field as a receiver and screen runner. as a RUNNING BACK steve slaton's biggest mark has been his inability to hold onto the ball.

i've got all the confidence in the world that he's going to get it fixed, but right now it seems i'm talking to saints fans 2 years ago.

What you seem to be missing is we aren't running the ball very effectively no matter who is in the game. We still can't punch it in when we are in the red zone and our interior line is one of the worst in football. Slaton gives us a much better chance at scoring than Brown does and at the end of the day, that is what counts. Once again, I'll take Slaton and his fumblitis.

Also, your stats are skewed because Brown has been our goal line back the entire season and has had WAY more opportunities to score running the football than Slaton has.

eriadoc
10-25-2009, 05:29 PM
What I meant by "leaves himself open" is that whether hes got 2 hands or not, he's taking 2 or 3 seconds to go down every time he runs up ht emiddle. Most guys get hit, fall down. Slaton is getting stood up or trying to lose guys every single time he gets hit in the middle. As such, he's giving guys an extra 2 or 3 seconds to get other defenders in there to help strip the ball every single time.

The other problem with fumbling is that it begets more fumbling. You get labeled as a fumbler and guys start trying to stand you up and strip the ball

He's getting hit in the backfield a lot. I spend a good portion of every game cursing the OL. But have you noticed the difference in blocking when Chris Brown is in vs. when Slaton is in? Chris Brown has been pretty productive for what little opportunity he's received. He's not going to hit any home runs, but look at the long run he had today. What was it? 10-12 yards? Something like that. Anyway, that run was 100% on the OL. Why aren't those holes available for Slaton? I think they block differently when Slaton is in there. Or rather, they are trying to do something different, anyway.

That's all an aside, though. Slaton's fumbled in the backfield, on the outside, and up the field. He just needs to recognize when to wrap it up.

TheIronDuke
10-25-2009, 05:30 PM
I'll take Jacksonville and Arizona for 2000, Alex.


I think it's a stretch to say Brown cost us the AZ and JAX games all by himself. The fumble in the EZ was horrible but Earl Campbell wouldn't get a yard with the blocking on the AZ goal line play.

Not to mention the fact that even if we would've gotten both TD's it would've only tied the game.

gtexan02
10-25-2009, 05:30 PM
this can go on all day

steve slaton 91 carries - 1 TD
chris brown 32 carries - 1 TD

as a RUNNING BACK chris brown has been more effective, especially with a longer field. slaton has been at his best this season in open field as a receiver and screen runner. as a RUNNING BACK steve slaton's biggest mark has been his inability to hold onto the ball.

i've got all the confidence in the world that he's going to get it fixed, but right now it seems i'm talking to saints fans 2 years ago.

This is a ridiculous argument, its like you're assuming that running backs only job is to take the football and run the ball. They also have responsibilities as blockers (Slaton gets the nod) and in our offense, they have to function as a viable passing threat (Slaton gets the nod). Saying who is better running the ball between the tackles is only part of the battle. Slaton wouldn't be catching any passes if he wasn't in the game. He's not an every down WR. He's a pass catching RB, and a HUGE part of our scoring offense. To say that he's not a runningback because he isn't pounding the ball with effectiveness (this year) just doesn't make sense.

And PS: Slaton scored his 2nd rushing touchdown today

Heres another one:
Steve Slaton - 110 rushing attempts, 4 fumbles lost (once per ~28)
Chris Brown - 36 attempts, 1 fumble lost (once per 36 attempts)

Its not like Brown is immune to turnovers.

Brown is averaging 3.3 yards per carry this season
Slaton is averaging 3.1

I'll take the receiving, blocking threat

Pantherstang84
10-25-2009, 05:30 PM
I'll take Jacksonville and Arizona for 2000, Alex.

What is no push from the interior of the offensive line?

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:33 PM
I think it's a stretch to say Brown cost us the AZ and JAX games all by himself. The fumble in the EZ was horrible but Earl Campbell wouldn't get a yard with the blocking on the AZ goal line play.

Not to mention the fact that even if we would've gotten both TD's it would've only tied the game.

What is no push from the interior of the offensive line?

We'll have to agree to disagree. If it were Slaton running the ball in those situations, it is highly doubtful you would be using these excuses. Instead, you are taking the emotional route calling for the backup to take over. Guys calling for Brown are probably the same guys that were calling for Sage to start over Schaub.

eriadoc
10-25-2009, 05:34 PM
I'll take Jacksonville and Arizona for 2000, Alex.

Umm, no. First of all, it is very, very rare for a player to lose a game single-handedly. We're talking three turnovers in the final five minutes with one being a flying helicopter fumble here. Second of all, Chris Brown's fumble on the goal line was a helluva lot more defensible than just about any Slaton fumble this year. Finally, the other game you're trying to pin on him was when he got tackled in his own backfield by Chris Myers and Mike Brisiel. So there was nothing single-handed about that. It was a team effort by the OL. I guess we could give some credit to the Arizona DL, but I'm not feeling particularly charitable.

As a playmaker, Slaton has the ability to change the game on any given play. And he has, in favor of our team as well as the other.

gtexan02
10-25-2009, 05:35 PM
I think it's a stretch to say Brown cost us the AZ and JAX games all by himself. The fumble in the EZ was horrible but Earl Campbell wouldn't get a yard with the blocking on the AZ goal line play.

Not to mention the fact that even if we would've gotten both TD's it would've only tied the game.

The Jax game was going into overtime. Whoever would have won the toss would have won the game, neither defense played that dday.

We had completely dominated the AZ game from the 2nd half on. They had scored 0 offensive points and had almost no yards. If we had tied it, I'm pretty sure we woul dhave won that game

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:36 PM
This is a ridiculous argument, its like you're assuming that running backs only job is to take the football and run the ball. They also have responsibilities as blockers (Slaton gets the nod) and in our offense, they have to function as a viable passing threat (Slaton gets the nod). Saying who is better running the ball between the tackles is only part of the battle. Slaton wouldn't be catching any passes if he wasn't in the game. He's not an every down WR. He's a pass catching RB, and a HUGE part of our scoring offense. To say that he's not a runningback because he isn't pounding the ball with effectiveness (this year) just doesn't make sense.

And PS: Slaton scored his 2nd rushing touchdown today

Heres another one:
Steve Slaton - 110 rushing attempts, 4 fumbles lost (once per ~28)
Chris Brown - 36 attempts, 1 fumble lost (once per 36 attempts)

Its not like Brown is immune to turnovers.

Brown is averaging 3.3 yards per carry this season
Slaton is averaging 3.1

I'll take the receiving, blocking threat

Don't waste your time, man. Great posts throughout the thread, but this is just like the Schaub vs. Sage argument. The backup is always everyone's favorite guy. The same guys calling for Brown will probably be praising Kubiak for sticking with Slaton when Slaton gets this problem fixed. Chris Brown is an average runner and a below average running back.

MEGA SWATT
10-25-2009, 05:36 PM
There is no way in hell Slaton should be benched. He is easily the best playmaker in the backfield and he poses a big threat every time he touches the ball, especially if they can get it to him on screen passes and such. He is much quicker and faster than Brown. He will get his fumblitis straightened out, even if it means giving up at the end of plays and going down. His fumbles are a result of him trying to do too much.

agreed. Plus, some fumbles are just going to happen no matter who the back is and has everything to do with the determination of the defense....

Big Lou
10-25-2009, 05:37 PM
In medical news today it was announced that an unnamed hospital in Houston performed the first succesful double hand transplant on two NFL players.

A Mr. Jacoby Jones and Steve Slaton switched hands. It was the first succesful operation of this magnitude, however some Houston Sports Fans were skeptical of the operation.



STEVE SLATON IS THE NEW JACOBY JONES!!!!!! WRITE IT DOWN...

TheIronDuke
10-25-2009, 05:37 PM
For the record, I want to see Moats get some carries. I'm not pimping Chris Brown at all, I don't blame him for the AZ and JAX losses though.

Scooter
10-25-2009, 05:39 PM
i'm going to just have to disagree and step aside. chris brown has been the better running back who would benefit from slaton coming in as a threat afterwards to run, screen, split wide, or block. i'm also comfortable in my assumption that had the game ended differently, this discussion would be taking a wholly different perspective.

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:40 PM
Umm, no. First of all, it is very, very rare for a player to lose a game single-handedly. We're talking three turnovers in the final five minutes with one being a flying helicopter fumble here. Second of all, Chris Brown's fumble on the goal line was a helluva lot more defensible than just about any Slaton fumble this year. Finally, the other game you're trying to pin on him was when he got tackled in his own backfield by Chris Myers and Mike Brisiel. So there was nothing single-handed about that. It was a team effort by the OL. I guess we could give some credit to the Arizona DL, but I'm not feeling particularly charitable.

Call it what you want but the entire reason Brown has been our goal line back is because he is supposed to be the guy that can get the push Steve Slaton can't get. Blame the line all you want but Brown did not do his job in either of those two games and because of it, we lost both of those games.

As a playmaker, Slaton has the ability to change the game on any given play. And he has, in favor of our team as well as the other.

I think you are nuts if you think Slaton has not done more to help us win than help us lose. Perhaps that is not what you are saying, but he has done way more to keep us in games and remains a playmaker. As others have stated, the guy needs to stop trying to do so much once the play is over. He just needs to get that knee down and end the play.

Ckw
10-25-2009, 05:42 PM
i'm going to just have to disagree and step aside. chris brown has been the better running back who would benefit from slaton coming in as a threat afterwards to run, screen, split wide, or block. i'm also comfortable in my assumption that had the game ended differently, this discussion would be taking a wholly different perspective.

Steve Slaton's two big touchdowns most certainly offset his fumble. Respectfully, I will have to disagree.

eriadoc
10-25-2009, 05:43 PM
Don't waste your time, man. Great posts throughout the thread, but this is just like the Schaub vs. Sage argument. The backup is always everyone's favorite guy.

Nah, not really at all. I like Slaton in a certain role, and he's being thrust into a role that I don't believe suits him. That's OK though, as long as he produces. Turnovers are killer, though. And I don't really have any affinity for Chris Brown at all. I don't care if they put him back there, Moats, Arian Foster, or Ron Dayne. Just put someone back there who holds onto the damn ball. Then you do with Slaton what you did with Jacoby - give him limited opportunities to make plays until he comes around. In Slaton's case, screens, pitches, and a few downfield passes are where he's best anyway.

Ryan
10-25-2009, 05:45 PM
The only thing that needs to be said from me about this thread....I'd rather have Jonathon Wells and Ron Dayne. Use Slaton as a receiver only, he's just terrible running the ball. Like someone has said before, you need one yard, Dayne will get you 3. If you need 10, Dayne will get you 3.

Slaton's fumbling is wearing me down.

eriadoc
10-25-2009, 05:46 PM
Steve Slaton's two big touchdowns most certainly offset his fumble.

If you believe that, then fine. However, I tend to believe most fans have a sense of situational momentum that affects the game. Slaton's TDs in the first half were great. But in the second half, all he did was help hand the game to the 49ers.

It's not a zero sum game. Hell, you still have people in Houston blaming Warren Moon, of all people, for 35-3.

Scooter
10-25-2009, 05:48 PM
7 games, 6 fumbles, 4 lost, 3.0ypc.

playmaker

just sayin. :thisbig:


reggie! reggie! reggie!

Pantherstang84
10-25-2009, 05:49 PM
We'll have to agree to disagree. If it were Slaton running the ball in those situations, it is highly doubtful you would be using these excuses. Instead, you are taking the emotional route calling for the backup to take over. Guys calling for Brown are probably the same guys that were calling for Sage to start over Schaub.

Don't be putting words in my mouth pawdna. Just stating the obvious that the interior line is weak this year and we could get no push in both of those games.

Funny though...

Chris Brown 1 fumble = horrible
Slaton 4 fumbles = play maker

Just getting tired of seeing the rock on the ground. Owen Daniels included.

Mailman
10-25-2009, 05:55 PM
Do you guys have any idea how many times Adrian Peterson fumbled last year?

The Vikings have a very good backup running back who is very good at receiving the ball out of the backfield, especially on third down passing situations. Childress uses Chester Taylor frequently in those situations, but he never benched AD because of AD's fumbles.

Slaton is our AD. We all agree that he must protect the ball better, but his turnovers are not causing us to lose games. However, if Kubes were to bench him to send a message, there's a greater likelihood that the Texans lose because opposing defenses wouldn't have to stay home to guard against Slaton. The Texans offense is predicated on play action and keeping the opposing team off-balance. Benching Steve Slaton would only help the other team.

Mailman
10-25-2009, 05:57 PM
Just getting tired of seeing the rock on the ground. Owen Daniels included.

We're all in agreement on this. On the sunny side of things, the defense is creating turnovers so we can kinda sorta maybe afford Slaton's screwups right now.

Scooter
10-25-2009, 05:59 PM
Do you guys have any idea how many times Adrian Peterson fumbled last year?

The Vikings have a very good backup running back who is very good at receiving the ball out of the backfield, especially on third down passing situations. Childress uses Chester Taylor frequently in those situations, but he never benched AD because of AD's fumbles.

Slaton is our AD. We all agree that he must protect the ball better, but his turnovers are not causing us to lose games. However, if Kubes were to bench him to send a message, there's a greater likelihood that the Texans lose because opposing defenses wouldn't have to stay home to guard against Slaton. The Texans offense is predicated on play action and keeping the opposing team off-balance. Benching Steve Slaton would only help the other team.

9. he lost 4 last season. slaton has 6 and lost 4 through 7 games. peterson ran for 1700+ yards. is that really a comparrison you're comfortable with?

Mailman
10-25-2009, 06:03 PM
9. he lost 4 last season. slaton has 6 and lost 4 through 7 games. peterson ran for 1700+ yards. is that really a comparrison you're comfortable with?

Yes, it absolutely is a comparison I'm comfortable with because the point is sound. I am not making a overall comparison between AD and Slaton but a statement about the relative value each player brings to his respective team and how that value is affected by each player's difficulties protecting the ball.

Steve Slaton is a pivotal piece of the offensive puzzle, just as AD was last year to the Vikings. Benching him because of a ball protection slump would be very unwise.


ETA: Slaton fumbled all of three times last year.

Scooter
10-25-2009, 06:15 PM
edit: drunk and arguementative.

stingray
10-25-2009, 06:25 PM
Give me a break!!!! Yes, Steve needs to work on his fumbilitis... But this team would not have the explosive offense that they have without him. We wouldn't have won the Cinci game without him!!! Are you going to put Chris Brown as a wideout? He is slow as molasses!!! You guys need to figure out that Steve is as important in this offense as Owen or Andre.

beerlover
10-25-2009, 06:32 PM
Slaton is not fumbling, he is being gang tackled & then stripped as two or three work his body. The running lanes close quickly if there at all, so his only option is to kick it outside or take punishment inside where they can stand him up, tearing, riping & hacking until the football is out. Texans guard play is abysmal :roast:

Wolf
10-25-2009, 06:38 PM
Slaton is not going anywhere , Texans need him
.. Fumbles suck and like someone in the game thread, Teams are aware of his fumbling problems ... even Kubiak is addressing it

October 25 2:13 ET

Despite putting a concentrated effort on it all week, RB Steve Slaton's fumble problems continued when he coughed it up late in the third quarter.

October 23 2:07 ET

The Texans spent the week tugging and pulling on RB Steve Slaton as he carried the ball. Slaton has been fumble prone this year. "Our team doesn't play well when we lose turnover battles," coach Gary Kubiak said.


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/565727

Fox
10-25-2009, 08:07 PM
In Kubiak's post-game presser he said that he turned to Slaton as they walked off the field and basically said, "We're going to go as far as you're going to take us, but we gotta get this fixed." That's pretty much how I feel about it. Slaton is a game-breaker who has the ability to take it to the house on any play, and does so on a weekly basis. Unfortunately, this season he's also had a penchant for fumbling the ball away in crucial situations on a weekly basis. We're living and dying by 'the Slaton.' ;)

I'd be comfortable with Chris Brown (or Moats) seeing more carries, particularly once we've established a lead, but at this point I still want Slaton getting the lion's share of carries. My reasoning is that he takes our offense to another level, and if he can figure out how to hold onto the ball again he's going to take us much farther than Moats or Brown can. Moats and Brown can be steady reliable guys, but Slaton changes the complexion of the game and is a huge threat the other team has to account for. He proved he has the ability to hold onto the ball last year, and I want to see if we can get him to do that again in the latter half of the season. . . . . Because I want it all - the reliable back who can deliver the knock-out punch on any play, and I still think he can be that guy for us this year and give us the best shot at the post-season.

TexanBacker93
10-25-2009, 08:18 PM
Slatons fumbles are the OLs fault in my opinion. Slaton is having to fight for every yard like he's never had to before. He leaves himself open to guys stripping the ball more than any back Ive seen. He refuses to go down from the first hit.

Hes not coughing the ball up randomly. Those fumbles are the work of guys literally pulling and pulling at the ball.

Especially the one against the Raiders. Why Studdard had to jump in front of him like that is beyond me.

I think he's fumbling mostly when he's trying to get that extra yard. I like the intensity to fight for every inch, but it hurts you when teams are going after the ball like that.

DexmanC
10-25-2009, 08:39 PM
Although I appreciate the fact you rarely see Slaton be brought down by
a SINGLE defender, he needs to learn to PROTECT THE BALL. The momentum
swing his fumble caused in the Jets game got us beat. He did it again at
Cinci, but Cushing's INT saved the game. Steve fumble today, and Eugene's
INT saves the game.

FUMBLES COST GAMES!!!

GP
10-25-2009, 08:47 PM
It irritates me, but benching him isn't going to solve the problem.

He's going to have to get through this while playing on the field. In real games. When defenses are trying to strip the ball from him.

Otherwise, you end up (IMO) labeling the guy and making him so self-conscious of it that he's worried more about protecting the ball than with being a running back.

Have you seen what's happened to Brandon Jacobs since they asked him to stop being a running back and to start being a bulldozer who can only run in straight lines and try to hurt people? I do. Because I have him on my fantasy team, and it's killing my season so far.

You start stigmatizing a player, and he's going to fade.

Steve has got to get through ONE game without fumbling, and then he'll run off a string of games like he did last year when he didn't fumble for a long, long time. He could help himself, too, by going ahead and conceding that a run play is over--stop, drop, and roll.

I know that asking a player to "just stop" is easier said than done.

But he's got to start learning when things are ripe for a stripped ball.

Hagar
10-26-2009, 12:21 AM
Its all good when you win, but when we lose, everybody calling Slaton a "playmaker" will be singing a different tune.

DexmanC
10-26-2009, 12:30 AM
Not always true. His fumbling cost us the Jets game, and ALMOST cost
us the Cincinnati and 49ers games. We won. That's good. But if he
fumbles against the Colts, it's gonna get us beat.

That's all most of us are saying here.

beerlover
10-26-2009, 02:13 AM
Its all good when you win, but when we lose, everybody calling Slaton a "playmaker" will be singing a different tune.

the Texans will go as far as Slaton CARRIES them.

BigBull17
10-26-2009, 09:01 AM
There is no way in hell Slaton should be benched. He is easily the best playmaker in the backfield and he poses a big threat every time he touches the ball, especially if they can get it to him on screen passes and such. He is much quicker and faster than Brown. He will get his fumblitis straightened out, even if it means giving up at the end of plays and going down. His fumbles are a result of him trying to do too much.

Maybe for a series, like the Oakland game. Not permanent, but make him watch for a few plays.

bigbrewster2000
10-26-2009, 11:23 AM
Slatons fumbles are the OLs fault in my opinion. Slaton is having to fight for every yard like he's never had to before. He leaves himself open to guys stripping the ball more than any back Ive seen. He refuses to go down from the first hit.

Hes not coughing the ball up randomly. Those fumbles are the work of guys literally pulling and pulling at the ball.

I would like to agree with you but I cant. His fumbling is a fundamental problem that every running back(or anyone carrying the ball for that matter) is taught not to do, and that is carrying the ball like a loaf of bread. Slaton is dropping the ball off his chest and not squeezing anymore. Partly from fighting for extra yards, and the other part is bad mechanics if you will. He simply needs to squeeze the ball high on his chest all the time with one arm and he will almost never lose the ball. That is the key. Unfortunately he is forgetting the basics.

I will say this though in your Defense gtex, he is trying to hard for the extra yard which is a reason why he is dropping the ball but it is still not acceptable.

HOU-TEX
10-26-2009, 11:30 AM
It ain't going to get any easier for Slaton. Opposing teams know of his fumblitis now and will try to rip the ball out more than they usually do. For example, the play Duane was flagged for pushing a dude. He was trying to protect Slaton because guys were ripping at the ball even after the play ended.

Kind of a weak call on Duane, but that's beside the point.

TexMexMom
10-26-2009, 01:19 PM
Fumbling is going to happen to running backs...as someone said...it's part of the game. But when it starts to happen this often, it's probably because he's thinking about it too much. RBs need to feel natural and honestly feel like the ball is a part of their anatomy. Sometimes it gets too natural and they start to hold it out away from their bodies for balance which can be dangerous in traffic. Then when they fumble, they start to be too conscious of it and it will tend to happen more often til they can get to a point where they're not always thinking about where the ball is.

My two cents.

CloakNNNdagger
10-26-2009, 04:17 PM
I would like to agree with you but I cant. His fumbling is a fundamental problem that every running back(or anyone carrying the ball for that matter) is taught not to do, and that is carrying the ball like a loaf of bread. Slaton is dropping the ball off his chest and not squeezing anymore. Partly from fighting for extra yards, and the other part is bad mechanics if you will. He simply needs to squeeze the ball high on his chest all the time with one arm and he will almost never lose the ball. That is the key. Unfortunately he is forgetting the basics.

I will say this though in your Defense gtex, he is trying to hard for the extra yard which is a reason why he is dropping the ball but it is still not acceptable.

The other point is, if you watch him closely, he carries the ball with the fingers split at the tip of the ball. That's good for speed running in the open field. But a coach worth a dang is going to catch that and teach security by securing the ball high up under the biceps (as you pointed out).............with the tip of the ball in the PALM of the HAND. Sure, it slows you down, but in tight crowded spaces especially, it is virtually impossible to loose the ball.

beerlover
10-26-2009, 04:26 PM
I didn't realize there were so many experts on RB fumbling problems. think I just trust Steve & coaching staff, thanks :barman:

76Texan
10-26-2009, 04:31 PM
Try hold on to the ball when two guys knock you helmet to helmet on the same play, then have another guy come in and pull the ball out!

Try hold on to the ball when your O-lineman up-ended you unexpectedly.

This thing is being blown out of proportion folks!

eriadoc
10-26-2009, 04:36 PM
So the next question is what does Slaton fumble more - the football (overturned or not) or his helmet? He loses his helmet every game. Someone needs to duct tape it to his head, I think.

Oh, and this just in - it's 3:30PM and Slaton just fumbled again.

badboy
10-26-2009, 04:37 PM
I didn't realize there were so many experts on RB fumbling problems. think I just trust Steve & coaching staff, thanks :barman:How's that working out for you?:goodluck:

badboy
10-26-2009, 04:39 PM
Try hold on to the ball when two guys knock you helmet to helmet on the same play, then have another guy come in and pull the ball out!

Try hold on to the ball when your O-lineman up-ended you unexpectedly.

This thing is being blown out of proportion folks!How many times did that happen? Yes, Steve has had some tough fumbles. The one that counted yesterday was because his last few steps he had one arm protecting ball. That is just stubborness.

beerlover
10-26-2009, 04:50 PM
How's that working out for you?:goodluck:

get back to me next week in Buffalo :gamer:

badboy
10-26-2009, 04:54 PM
get back to me next week in Buffalo :gamer:
Oh you are so optimistic!

76Texan
10-26-2009, 04:57 PM
How many times did that happen? Yes, Steve has had some tough fumbles. The one that counted yesterday was because his last few steps he had one arm protecting ball. That is just stubborness.

There was only one fumble yesterday.
And on that one Steve was hit on the head twice; once by a DT, and once by a SS.

I have not looked into details on all the fumbles, but that one and the one where he was catapulted into the air by Studdard were the twos I know for sure.

Double Barrel
10-26-2009, 05:01 PM
"Fumbles are part of the game" is a weak excuse, IMHO. Holding is also a part of the game but you don't want it to happen and cost you downs and yardage.

One of the key stats for all teams is turnover ratio. It is one of the few stats that are actually worth looking at, like third down conversion rates. Stopping your momentum and giving the ball away is a HUGE mistake, and anyone that tries to downplay it is being naive about one of the most basic aspects of football.

Like Kubiak said, Slaton had better get this problem under control, because it might make all the difference in the world between a winning or losing season, making or missing the playoffs, etc.

76Texan
10-26-2009, 05:04 PM
TRY GO OUT THERE AND HAVE TWO GUYS HIT YOU ON THE HEAD WITH THEIR HELMET!

Good luck hanging on to the ball.

Blake
10-26-2009, 05:07 PM
Weighing in at 5'9" 215 pounds, STEVE SLATON!!!!

LETS GET READY TO FUMBLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!

eriadoc
10-26-2009, 05:08 PM
TRY GO OUT THERE AND HAVE TWO GUYS HIT YOU ON THE HEAD WITH THEIR HELMET!

Good luck hanging on to the ball.

Last I checked no one here is playing NFL football. And if Slaton uses your excuse for very long, he won't be either.

Double Barrel
10-26-2009, 05:12 PM
TRY GO OUT THERE AND HAVE TWO GUYS HIT YOU ON THE HEAD WITH THEIR HELMET!

Good luck hanging on to the ball.

Every running back has to deal with it. There are techniques taught to players on how to protect the ball. But, it has to become instinct, and as often happens in the heat of the moment, players revert to old habits.

Mr. White
10-26-2009, 05:14 PM
I haven't read through the whole thread, but I can see what Slaton's talking about.

One guy grabs him and another guy knocks the ball out. I'm pretty sure that every DC in the league knows this formula by now.

It's time for him to change either a.) the way he carries the ball, b.) how soon he goes down or c.) both.

76Texan
10-26-2009, 05:17 PM
Every running back has to deal with it. There are techniques taught to players on how to protect the ball. But, it has to become instinct, and as often happens in the heat of the moment, players revert to old habits.

NO, a play should end when a guy is hit helmet-to-helmet, The first one!

Double Barrel
10-26-2009, 05:18 PM
NO, a play should end when a guy is hit helmet-to-helmet, The first one!

yeah, they should, but that's not always the case (as we know).

Battle Red Flash
10-26-2009, 05:21 PM
... is killing me. I've always been of the mindset that I prefer a every-down back that can give me a steady diet of 4-yd. gains than one who takes losses and then pops a big one. I know different people have different views on that, so fine. Slaton clearly falls into the latter category, so it's always been hard for me to get behind him as an every-down back.

But the fumbles are killing whatever enthusiasm I force myself to come up with for the guy. I love the screens and pitches, as that's the role I envision for him anyway, but if he can't hang onto the ball, I don't want him on the field. If we can't run the ball, we may as well not have the associated fumbles. If he fumbles again next week, I'm starting the official "Fire Steve Slaton" thread.

It is a huge problem. I hope he's the 3rd down back next year after we bring in an everydown back.

HOU-TEX
10-26-2009, 05:22 PM
Kinda off topic, but did anyone see the catch Kevin Boss had last night? He was lit up like the 4th of July a nano second after catching the ball, but held onto it. Just sayin....

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 05:23 PM
The game film is out there. Slaton has been coached to just stay on his feet and the OL is going to come try to push him for another 1-4 yards. The hazard of that is it is going to provide time for gang tackling and attempts to strip. Ying yang folks.

76Texan
10-26-2009, 05:26 PM
yeah, they should, but that's not always the case (as we know).

I can understand he still needs to hold on to the ball after the first one, but after the second one???

CloakNNNdagger
10-26-2009, 05:31 PM
The game film is out there. Slaton has been coached to just stay on his feet and the OL is going to come try to push him for another 1-4 yards. The hazard of that is it is going to provide time for gang tackling and attempts to strip. Ying yang folks.

Good observation

Double Barrel
10-26-2009, 06:01 PM
I can understand he still needs to hold on to the ball after the first one, but after the second one???

It's a very interesting point you have, and I do have to wonder why a) the officials are calling it, and b) whatever happened to forward momentum calls?

CloakNNNdagger
10-26-2009, 06:30 PM
It's a very interesting point you have, and I do have to wonder why a) the officials are calling it, and b) whatever happened to forward momentum calls?

You know, I asked my friend the same thing when we were watching the game.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 06:32 PM
It's a very interesting point you have, and I do have to wonder why a) the officials are calling it, and b) whatever happened to forward momentum calls?

And this plays into what I was saying. The refs have been extremely slow on the whistles this season and last. It benefited us many times last year as he was stale-mated at 3 yds and then Winston came up and hit him to make it a 7 yd run. This year there is no forward progress and it is a free for all to get the ball from him.

Wolf
10-26-2009, 06:40 PM
whatever the reason, a fumble is a fumble, whether it is one guy or five guys hitting him ..Slaton has got to get it fixed and shed that label off of him .. right now I figure what defensive coordinators a preaching to their guys is "wrap up slaton, hold him up a bit and let the calvary come and try to strip the ball away, because Steve will fumble in a course of the game"

CloakNNNdagger
10-26-2009, 09:11 PM
Fantasy oriented (http://www.scoresreport.com/2009/07/25/which-running-backs-drop-the-ball-the-most/), interesting nevertheless.


When it comes to fumbles, nobody drops the ball more than quarterbacks, because they handle the ball more than anyone besides the center. [FYI: David Carr holds the #2 fumbling record (21) for 1 season in NFL history season.......just 1 short of the all time NFL record] Brett Favre has 157 of them, which leads active players (yes, we’re considering Favre active). But many times when a QB fumbles, he can pounce right back on the ball. Running backs are a different story. The ones who fumble a lot often wind up in their coach’s doghouse because most of the time it’s because of careless ball handling. As for fantasy football, you’ll want to be careful with these guys too because they take points off your scoreboard, both by negative points for fumbles, and for lost opportunities on offense. So here is the active Top 10 in fumbles by running backs…..

1. Edgerrin James (43)—James isn’t as bad as early in his career, like when he fumbled 8 times during his rookie year of 1999 with the Colts. But you tend to look the other way when the other numbers offset the fumbles—and James was an All Pro that year with 2139 yards from scrimmage and 17 total touchdowns.

2. Ricky Williams (41)—Ricky definitely comes down with fumble-it is pretty often, and that has to drive Bill Parcells crazy. I wonder if it would help if Ricky thought he was carrying a bag of..…oh forget it.

3. Jamal Lewis (39)—Lewis has improved drastically in this area, fumbling only twice last season. But he fumbled 8 times in back to back seasons in 2002 and 2003 while with Baltimore. Yikes.

4. Ahman Green (37)—He hasn’t fumbled since 2006, but that’s only because Green has carried the ball just 144 times since then.

5. Michael Pittman (31)—Pittman was one of like 15 running backs used by the Broncos last season.

6. Shaun Alexander (31)—For a few years there, Alexander was putting up such ridiculous numbers that Mike Holmgren was forced to accept some drops.

7. Warrick Dunn (26)—He’s never had more than 4 fumbles in a season, but he’s been playing for so long that he wound up on here. Dunn may be one of the most underrated RBs in the history of the NFL.

8. Fred Taylor (26)—Taylor has fumbled less in recent years, but he’s also carried the ball less. It should be interesting to see if his career is re-ignited in a Patriots’ uniform.

9. LaDainian Tomlinson (25)—He fumbled 8 times in his rookie year, and only 17 times since. With 2657 total carries, that’s not bad at all.

9 (tie). Clinton Portis (25)—Portis is a solid RB, but he does have two quirks—he’s injury prone and he drops the ball a few too many times.

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 11:58 PM
Fantasy oriented (http://www.scoresreport.com/2009/07/25/which-running-backs-drop-the-ball-the-most/), interesting nevertheless.

If he keeps it up he's going to be in the David Carr area of fumbles for the year..

ObsiWan
10-27-2009, 01:07 AM
Originally Posted by Ckw5814
This. Rep to you.

Chris Brown: has lost us two games by himself
Steve Slaton: having some trouble holding onto the ball

The Jax game was going into overtime. Whoever would have won the toss would have won the game, neither defense played that dday.

We had completely dominated the AZ game from the 2nd half on. They had scored 0 offensive points and had almost no yards. If we had tied it, I'm pretty sure we woul dhave won that game

If you want to pin the Az loss on somebody, I nominate the guy who threw the pick six for AZ's ONLY 2nd half score; Mr. Matt Schaub. Which, you might note, was the WINNING score. If there had been no pick six, we would have trotted the other Mr. Kris Brown out and kicked the winning FG.

So no, you can't pin the AZ loss solely on RB Chris Brown. No way.

unreals
10-28-2009, 04:50 AM
Again, I really can't believe so many of you think Slaton should be replaced as a starter. When was the last time a star rookie RB got so little love from the home fan base less than halfway through his second season?

Slaton proved last season that he is much, much more than a third down back. I think he can have a great career in the mold of a Brian Westbrook, who has been used so well for so many years as a runner and receiver. This team needs to address the deficiencies of the offensive line- they already have a fine young franchise back in Slaton.

GuerillaBlack
10-28-2009, 09:49 AM
Oh snap, Brian Westbrook.

Perfect example of what I think Steve Slaton will be like for us.

CloakNNNdagger
10-28-2009, 10:08 AM
Weren't 2 additional fumbles negated (not counted) by call back for penalties, etc (not including knee-down red flag reversal)?

Ckw
10-28-2009, 10:41 AM
If you want to pin the Az loss on somebody, I nominate the guy who threw the pick six for AZ's ONLY 2nd half score; Mr. Matt Schaub. Which, you might note, was the WINNING score. If there had been no pick six, we would have trotted the other Mr. Kris Brown out and kicked the winning FG.

So no, you can't pin the AZ loss solely on RB Chris Brown. No way.

The difference is we aren't even in that game without Matt Schaub's second half heroics. Chris Brown did nothing for us that game other than lose the game for us.

eriadoc
10-28-2009, 12:24 PM
The difference is we aren't even in that game without Matt Schaub's second half heroics. Chris Brown did nothing for us that game other than lose the game for us.

Matt Schaub did throw the game winning TD in the second half.

CloakNNNdagger
10-28-2009, 06:17 PM
If pregame conditions are windy and/or rainy, we better have a third RB ACTIVE for the game.........Moats, unless his turf toe, precludes it.

CloakNNNdagger
10-28-2009, 09:24 PM
Patent description for suction cup gloves. (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6081928/description.html) Perfect for Slaton, especially if it rains.

SUMMARY OF THE INVENTION

In accordance with the invention, a thin elastomeric glove comprising a palm section, an index finger tip and body portion, a second finger tip and body portion, a ring finger tip and body portion, a fourth finger tip and body portion and a thumb tip and body portion is provided with increased surface area in the form of areas of suction on each of the gripping surfaces of the glove. Alternatively, only selected gripping surfaces of the glove may be provided with areas of suction. These areas of suction enhance the grip strength of the glove. In one embodiment of the invention, the glove has an outer surface for coming into contact with an object to be held which is comprised of a plurality of concave indentations which form a negative textured gripping surface. The concave indentations define a plurality of continuous planar contact surfaces and a plurality of suction portions on the outer surface of the glove. The concave indentations may be a single size and depth or various sizes and depths and are molded into the glove wherever additional grip is needed.

In another embodiment of the invention, the glove has an outer surface for coming into contact with an object to be held which is comprised of a plurality of suction cups which form a suction cup gripping surface. The suction cups define a plurality of suction portions on the outer surface of the glove. The suction cups may be a single size and depth or various sizes and depths and are molded into the surface of the glove wherever additional grip is desired.


This is the sport adaptation version (http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/6182293/claims.html).

1. A sports glove comprising:

a body portion designed to fit in a palm of a human hand;

a thumb engaging portion including a thumb tab extending outwardly from the body portion and a thumb encircling ring attached to an outer end of the thumb tab, and a plurality of different finger engaging portions affixed to the body portion; and

a resilient depressed area positioned in the body portion to operate as a ball holding suction cup, the resilient depressed area includes a piece of resilient material defining a semi-spherical depression, the resilient material including one of rubber or plastic, with the piece being affixed to a centrally located opening in the body portion.

texanmojo
10-29-2009, 09:05 AM
It's now considered a disease...it's called Slatonitis...not sure there is a cure.

Double Barrel
10-29-2009, 01:18 PM
It's now considered a disease...it's called Slatonitis...not sure there is a cure.

I think the cure is a shot of Benchacillin and an operation for a back replacement.

p.s. I'm not a doctor, I just play one on the internet. :thinking:

hradhak
10-29-2009, 07:18 PM
It bothers me that Kubiak has said that he will continue to run with Slaton. As it is, he isn't getting too many yards, and he is fumbling. I would be more forgiving if he fumbled it and still had several 100+ yard games, but it'd still bother me. Why not give someone else a shot. If nothing else it sends Slaton a message that he's not the golden boy here and CAN be replaced.

Ckw
10-29-2009, 07:32 PM
It bothers me that Kubiak has said that he will continue to run with Slaton. As it is, he isn't getting too many yards, and he is fumbling. I would be more forgiving if he fumbled it and still had several 100+ yard games, but it'd still bother me. Why not give someone else a shot. If nothing else it sends Slaton a message that he's not the golden boy here and CAN be replaced.

The problem is he can't be replaced. Who do you bring in and if you bring in someone else (Moats, Brown, Foster) do they really give us our best chance to win? I think you are nuts if you answer yes to that question. If we had someone else behind Slaton that looked like they could do better behind our terrible interior offensive line, then yes I would agree with you. Things being what they are, we have no other option.

Thorn
10-29-2009, 07:37 PM
The problem is he can't be replaced. Who do you bring in and if you bring in someone else (Moats, Brown, Foster) do they really give us our best chance to win? I think you are nuts if you answer yes to that question. If we had someone else behind Slaton that looked like they could do better behind our terrible interior offensive line, then yes I would agree with you. Things being what they are, we have no other option.


Agreed, and he is being productive. He scored two TDs last Sunday. I doubt very much we have another RB that can line up in the slot and make TDs like Slaton can. I do hope he gets past this though, because he just CAN'T keep the fumbling up and stay in the NFL for long.

bigbrewster2000
10-30-2009, 03:09 PM
I didn't realize there were so many experts on RB fumbling problems. think I just trust Steve & coaching staff, thanks :barman:

I didnt come back into this thread after I posted so excuse the late reply. Look, that comment doesnt really work here because any coach worth his salt is telling Steve exactly what I posted. I learned that in high school ball. Its just the way you are supposed to carry the ball period. Oh by the way that is the exact way Tiki Barber was taught how to fix his fumblitis by Tom Coughlin. So I got that going for me............

beerlover
10-30-2009, 03:55 PM
I didnt come back into this thread after I posted so excuse the late reply. Look, that comment doesnt really work here because any coach worth his salt is telling Steve exactly what I posted. I learned that in high school ball. Its just the way you are supposed to carry the ball period. Oh by the way that is the exact way Tiki Barber was taught how to fix his fumblitis by Tom Coughlin. So I got that going for me............

NFL > High School Football

:user:

bigbrewster2000
10-30-2009, 04:59 PM
NFL > High School Football

:user:

Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post. And they teach it in College and the NFL......
Bigbrewster2000>Beerlover

Ckw
10-30-2009, 05:01 PM
Thanks for ignoring the rest of my post.

He jests. Don't take it too seriously.

beerlover
10-31-2009, 01:52 AM
I'm just tired of people ragging on Steve because teams are attacking him & trying to take the ball out of his hands as part of their game planning. Not trying to talk down High School Football or the big brewster (cool name) 2000 but what I saw in particular last Sunday against Singletary's 49er D was disturbing & even more shocking Texans fans don't understand reason as to why? It's a fumble but its a forced fumble. It's not like he just lost the handle because of his method of carrying the ball it's the NFL removing the ball from carrier 101 taught by great defensive coaches. Nothing wrong with that either, like to see the Texans use a little more of that, in fact leading up to that game Slaton had to run through line of players trying to knock out the ball in practice & still it happen'ed, maybe they need to practice that a little harder?

Like I said earlier we'll see this Sunday in Buffalo, pay close attention to end of plays & see if their focus is on a sure tackle or a strip.....:rake:

DexmanC
10-31-2009, 05:35 AM
The 49ers were systematically standing Steve up on gangtackles and
punching at the ball. Everytime there was a stalemate, several 49ers
would stand Steve up, and punch the ball. It's on tape now as a viable
tactic, so they have to find a way to beat it. I'm sure they practiced on
it well. It shouldn't be a problem going into the game.

Carr Bombed
10-31-2009, 05:43 AM
It's on tape now as a viable tactic, so they have to find a way to beat it. I'm sure they practiced on
it well.

Yeah, it's called the Kenny Rogers technique..... Steve Slaton needs to know when to hold 'em, know when to fold 'em, know when to end the play, and know when to run.

He needs to learn when to keep on running and when to get his ass to the damn ground. There's no point in spinning your tires, wasting a god awful amount of energy going nowhere, while defenders are coming in from all different directions to strip the ball out.

That and it sure would help if he put two hands around the ball everytime he was in those piles as well.

DexmanC
10-31-2009, 06:28 AM
He needs to learn when to keep on running and when to get his ass to the damn ground. There's no point in spinning your tires, wasting a god awful amount of energy going nowhere, while defenders are coming in from all different directions to strip the ball out.


Thing is.. It's a double-edged sword. Last year, especially evident when we
beat the Titans, Slaton would get stood up, and Winston and Vonta would
go over and push the pile for 8 yards. Now, teams are going for the fumble
before Steve's help can get there. It's a slight, but major adjustment by
the defensive coordinators.

CloakNNNdagger
10-31-2009, 09:22 AM
How about our players effectively blocking in front of Slaton instead of playing from behind him for the extra yards.:tiphat:

DexmanC
10-31-2009, 01:13 PM
How about our players effectively blocking in front of Slaton instead of playing from behind him for the extra yards.:tiphat:

Here's the thing...
The only guards I've seen capable of moving his man off the line
of scrimmage, is Antoine Caldwell. NONE of our other guards, including
Chester Pitts, have had that quality. So, I see them running more
towards the Winston/Caldwell side of the line to make their money.

Studdard is only good when he's able to get a good cut on a guy, but
when he misses, HE MISSES! I look for the Texans' run game to come
up, as the Bills LB group has been HORRIBLE. Slaton gets by the D-line,
it's ON.

infantrycak
10-31-2009, 01:24 PM
Slaton gets by the D-line,
it's ON.

One of their starting DT's, Kyle Williams is out. 1st round bust John McCargo will get his 1st NFL start in his 4th season.

eriadoc
11-01-2009, 01:02 PM
OK, kickoff pending. We have a back that is among the worst fumblers this year, and we're facing a defense that is among the best at coming up with turnovers. This should be interesting.

TheIronDuke
11-01-2009, 01:31 PM
Ummm, bump?

Ckw
11-01-2009, 01:33 PM
I'm speechless.... What happened to him?!?!? He was so great last year and now is garbage. #&$*!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

TheIronDuke
11-01-2009, 01:35 PM
But he's such a great "playmaker" that it's okay if he fumbles all the time.

silvrhand
11-01-2009, 01:42 PM
I'd be ok with a less explosive player that can hang onto the ball.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 01:43 PM
I'd be ok with a less explosive player that can hang onto the ball.

If it keeps happening, yeah. And it looks like it is going to keep on happening...

Ryan
11-01-2009, 01:48 PM
I'd be ok with a less explosive player that can hang onto the ball.

Moats has some explosion, maybe not quite as much, but he's much quicker than Brown and hopefully can hang on to the ball better.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 01:50 PM
But he's such a great "playmaker" that it's okay if he fumbles all the time.

I know you are trying to be clever, but this actually is a factual statement. Lately, we have been "running" the ball using HB Screens. With Moats in there, we can't really do that. Slaton is 10x the playmaker Moats is. I'll take Moats running the ball right now, but Slaton still needs to get in there and catch some passes and keep the defense on their toes.

Corrosion
11-01-2009, 01:51 PM
This is getting redicuouls .... :spin:

gwallaia
11-01-2009, 02:27 PM
What kind of drills can be done in practice to help this?

Blazing Arrow
11-01-2009, 02:39 PM
Is he hurt? He is killing one of my fantasy leagues right now.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 02:40 PM
Is he hurt? He is killing one of my fantasy leagues right now.

He is in the doghouse and is killing my fantasy team as well.

Blazing Arrow
11-01-2009, 02:46 PM
He is in the doghouse and is killing my fantasy team as well.

They just said he was benched for the rest of the game ... super.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 02:48 PM
They just said he was benched for the rest of the game ... super.

I don't agree with that decision. But it is f-ing Gary Kubiak so nothing surprises me.

Ryan
11-01-2009, 02:52 PM
I agree with that completely. He puts two on the ground every game, so he was gonna get another one.

dtran04
11-01-2009, 02:55 PM
I don't agree with that decision. But it is f-ing Gary Kubiak so nothing surprises me.

If it was Mike Tomlin, Slaton would have been benched 3 games ago.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 02:57 PM
If it was Mike Tomlin, Slaton would have been benched 3 games ago.

We aren't the Steelers. We just lost our starting TE and big time playmaker. We need all our playmakers on the field if we want to get out of Buffalo with a win.

silvrhand
11-01-2009, 03:07 PM
We aren't the Steelers. We just lost our starting TE and big time playmaker. We need all our playmakers on the field if we want to get out of Buffalo with a win.

Right now Moats is running harder than i've seen Slaton run all year, he's got over a > 5 yard average per carry right now.. I'll take that any day, week, month of the year in the NFL.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 03:18 PM
Right now Moats is running harder than i've seen Slaton run all year, he's got over a > 5 yard average per carry right now.. I'll take that any day, week, month of the year in the NFL.

I have to agree with you. As I said in the gameday thread, Moats is really making a case for himself. I still say Slaton should be out there some in a close game like this. That being said, Moats should be the starting RB until Slaton proves otherwise.

The guy is freaking shifty too! He has burst, some strength, and his legs look like rubber.

And almost another TD for Moats!!!

silvrhand
11-01-2009, 03:21 PM
I have to agree with you. As I said in the gameday thread, Moats is really making a case for himself. I still say Slaton should be out there some in a close game like this. That being said, Moats should be the starting RB until Slaton proves otherwise.

The guy is freaking shifty too! He has burst, some strength, and his legs look like rubber.

And almost another TD for Moats!!!

He is the prototypical back you want in the ZBS, just hit a hole and hit it HARD and FAST.. and that's what you are getting to see. At this point IMHO it's Moats job to lose right now.

TheIronDuke
11-01-2009, 03:22 PM
For the record, I want to see Moats get some carries. I'm not pimping Chris Brown at all, I don't blame him for the AZ and JAX losses though.

You're a smart smart man.

ziggy29
11-01-2009, 03:22 PM
The Texans will need Slaton's explosiveness and shiftiness back into the offense this season. But it looks like today is the day for Moats, and I hope this shows Slaton that if he wants to be a feature back in the NFL he needs to stop coughing it up so much.

jlam
11-01-2009, 03:30 PM
:bowdown: Moats.

I may or may not be speaking from an objective standpoint.

jlam
11-01-2009, 03:35 PM
Also, this looks a whole lot like New Orleans' game against the Bills earlier this season. Bills' D plays well in the 1st half using a lot of deep zone coverage, then the opponent makes the adjustment in the 2nd half and runs all over them after halftime. Their run D looks pretty bad.

gtexan02
11-01-2009, 03:50 PM
Wow, Bills run d is awfull, but Moats just saved our asses.

Crow, meet fork.

Blake
11-01-2009, 03:52 PM
I don't agree with that decision. But it is f-ing Gary Kubiak so nothing surprises me.

Over 100 yards and 3 TD's for Moats. Yeah Gary is a dumbass.

Ckw
11-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Over 100 yards and 3 TD's for Moats. Yeah Gary is a dumbass.

I'll gladly eat crow. Moats really impressed me today. Wow!

He seems quicker and more elusive than he was last year. He really looks like he could be a complete RB. Wow!

Ryan
11-01-2009, 03:53 PM
Over 100 yards and 3 TD's for Moats. Yeah Gary is a dumbass.

Hindsight is 20/20 however. But i had a pretty solid feeling Moats would get the job done.

Scooter
11-01-2009, 03:56 PM
i've already caught negative rep in this thread and will repeat my stance. sit his ass down. brown and moats are better RUNNING BACKS this season. in slaton's only run today he had a lane you could land a plane on and somehow only managed 1 yard. slaton is mirroring reggie bush's second year failures and until he figures it out and gets out of his slump, should be used as such. bring him in on 3rd downs as a receiver, screen, draw, or blocking back and allow him to earn his job back. until then, give the job to the guys who are earning it.

Blake
11-01-2009, 04:00 PM
I'll gladly eat crow. Moats really impressed me today. Wow!

He seems quicker and more elusive than he was last year. He really looks like he could be a complete RB. Wow!

Rep for manning up on that.

GP
11-01-2009, 04:03 PM
I've said that Slaton's problem is not knowing when to go down; when to cover up and just end the play.

Same thing on today's fumble: He breaks a tackle, and loses his mind in the middle of making a move. Result: Loosens grip on ball, and it gets stripped.

This team is going to need all three RBs to contribute if we continue our winning streak. If, at any point, it's one or the other, or the other, then I'm good with whoever it is.

eriadoc
11-01-2009, 04:03 PM
I don't have to start my Fire Slaton thread now, because Kubiak did what good coaches do. He held his player accountable. We won this game without Slaton's "playmaking" ability (which could be a play for either team at any given time), and on the road to boot.

Moats isn't as good as today showed, but he isn't bad either. He and Chris Brown can do a good enough job if they just get positive yardage and hold onto the ball. Fumble issues aside, I honestly think those two are better options at RB right now anyway. The running game just looks better when they are in there. Slaton gets too many negative plays. Moats and Brown just hit the hole hard and take everything they can get. They won't bust off the long TD, most likely, but I'll take a string of positive plays over drive killers any day.

Cheers Kubiak!

:fans:

GlassHalfFull
11-01-2009, 04:05 PM
I was arguing all game with the announcers. They never did acknowledge me, damn then.

I totally agreed with Kubiak's decision to sit Slaton, he has given Slaton several 2nd chances. This was the right time and place to make a point. We didn't need him today, let Moats have his chance to show what he can do.

We will need Slaton next week, he needs to make a serious commitment to protecting the ball this week.

TimeKiller
11-01-2009, 04:06 PM
Getting ridiculous. Rightfully sat the rest of the game. What is up with Slaton?

Ckw
11-01-2009, 04:10 PM
i've already caught negative rep in this thread and will repeat my stance. sit his ass down. brown and moats are better RUNNING BACKS this season. in slaton's only run today he had a lane you could land a plane on and somehow only managed 1 yard. slaton is mirroring reggie bush's second year failures and until he figures it out and gets out of his slump, should be used as such. bring him in on 3rd downs as a receiver, screen, draw, or blocking back and allow him to earn his job back. until then, give the job to the guys who are earning it.

Other than the Brown part, I agree with you. Right now, it should be Moats getting the majority of the plays and Slaton as the backup until Slaton proves that he deserves to be the starter again. At least Slaton has scored some TDs and has some speed; Brown on the other hand has shown nothing.

I've said that Slaton's problem is not knowing when to go down; when to cover up and just end the play.

Same thing on today's fumble: He breaks a tackle, and loses his mind in the middle of making a move. Result: Loosens grip on ball, and it gets stripped.

This team is going to need all three RBs to contribute if we continue our winning streak. If, at any point, it's one or the other, or the other, then I'm good with whoever it is.

Agreed. I really believe Slaton is thinking way too much. Instead of instinctively hitting the holes, he is thinking about which holes to hit. Instead of diving for the extra yardage, he is standing up hoping his line will push him for some extra yards. And instead of instinctively running with the ball like he did last year, he is thinking about what to do with the ball and in turn is losing his mojo.

I don't have to start my Fire Slaton thread now, because Kubiak did what good coaches do. He held his player accountable. We won this game without Slaton's "playmaking" ability (which could be a play for either team at any given time), and on the road to boot.

Moats isn't as good as today showed, but he isn't bad either. He and Chris Brown can do a good enough job if they just get positive yardage and hold onto the ball. Fumble issues aside, I honestly think those two are better options at RB right now anyway. The running game just looks better when they are in there. Slaton gets too many negative plays. Moats and Brown just hit the hole hard and take everything they can get. They won't bust off the long TD, most likely, but I'll take a string of positive plays over drive killers any day.

Cheers Kubiak!

:fans:

I really believe Kubiak did it at the right time too. Any game before today would have been too soon but today was the last straw. If Moats had not performed well, then Slaton could have come back out and probably start next week. But Moats played phenomenally and because of that, Moats deserves to start next week.

GP
11-01-2009, 04:14 PM
Now let's see if Kubiak does the right thing by starting Moats next week, and having Slaton come in on some plays to at least communicate that he's not 100% out of the loop yet.

Until Moats hits a wall, no reason to get away from him carrying the snaps.

eriadoc
11-01-2009, 04:25 PM
Now let's see if Kubiak does the right thing by starting Moats next week, and having Slaton come in on some plays to at least communicate that he's not 100% out of the loop yet.

Until Moats hits a wall, no reason to get away from him carrying the snaps.

Yep. Moats should start, and Slaton's first touch should be a screen or pitch to the outside, and on the opponent's side of the field. Slaton should be operating with the understanding that his chances continue until he fumbles again.

So many fans on here want to blast the coaching staff (Kubiak especially) for things he really doesn't control. Accountability is the one thing he really does control, and it's time he stuck it to Slaton and showed everyone that turnovers will not be tolerated.

CloakNNNdagger
11-01-2009, 06:10 PM
After as many fumbles, especially fumbles lost, Slaton needs to be sat by Kubiak for more than just part of one game. Keeping him in, with excuse that he is invaluable as a screen pass receiver, etc., shows failure to understand that these circumstances all require the handling of the ball. He needs to SIT long enough to give lots of thought to where his head has gone.

TheRealJoker
11-01-2009, 06:18 PM
Moats has earned the starting spot. Unfortunately I dont think Brown can Ron Dayne the Colts and we're going to need Slaton and every other playmaker next week so Slaton still gets the opportunity to earn his starting job back.

But the job is now Moats' to lose.

texanmojo
11-01-2009, 07:46 PM
It's now considered a disease...it's called Slatonitis...not sure there is a cure.

I repeat my above stance...

Wolf
11-01-2009, 07:49 PM
what is sad but funny is that when Slaton fumbled, the first thing that came to mind was "well he got that out of the way already"

Corrosion
11-01-2009, 07:54 PM
i've already caught negative rep in this thread and will repeat my stance. sit his ass down. brown and moats are better RUNNING BACKS this season. in slaton's only run today he had a lane you could land a plane on and somehow only managed 1 yard. slaton is mirroring reggie bush's second year failures and until he figures it out and gets out of his slump, should be used as such. bring him in on 3rd downs as a receiver, screen, draw, or blocking back and allow him to earn his job back. until then, give the job to the guys who are earning it.

Both Brown and Moats have been more productive running the ball , its his ability to bring big plays in the passing game that is missing with the other two.
I'll take holding onto the ball over the remote possibility of a big play.

silvrhand
11-01-2009, 10:22 PM
After as many fumbles, especially fumbles lost, Slaton needs to be sat by Kubiak for more than just part of one game. Keeping him in, with excuse that he is invaluable as a screen pass receiver, etc., shows failure to understand that these circumstances all require the handling of the ball. He needs to SIT long enough to give lots of thought to where his head has gone.

did anyone notice the look on slaton's face on the sidelines he was not happy, would have been better if he put his helmet on the bench and tried to help Brown/Moats anyway he could.

hookinreds
11-01-2009, 10:27 PM
We aren't the Steelers. We just lost our starting TE and big time playmaker. We need all our playmakers on the field if we want to get out of Buffalo with a win.

So line Slaton up at TE.

DexmanC
11-01-2009, 10:30 PM
I also saw Slaton pound the dirt after the fumble. Kubes gave Slaton a break
during the 49ers game, but he DID NOT make the same mistake during
THIS game. Kubes HAD to sit Steve, because the defense was playing
lights out from the first quarter. Slaton putting the ball on the ground
would have compromised the dominance of the defense.

hookinreds
11-01-2009, 10:31 PM
I've said that Slaton's problem is not knowing when to go down; when to cover up and just end the play.


I suddenly have the urge to listen to a little Kenny Rogers.

GuerillaBlack
11-01-2009, 10:36 PM
How does this type of thing happen? Three fumbles last year, but he's lost five so far this year (at the halfway point). He was fine running it last year (knew when to go down/cover up/end play, etc.), but is having so many damn problems this year.

silvrhand
11-01-2009, 10:37 PM
How does this type of thing happen? Three fumbles last year, but he's lost five so far this year (at the halfway point). He was fine running it last year (knew when to go down/cover up/end play, etc.), but is having so many damn problems this year.

his big knock on him in college was the fumbles, he had a good year last year which was a change from the norm for him.

unreals
11-02-2009, 01:11 AM
What short memories here, both in terms of the Texans and the history of the NFL in general. There are so many great runners from the past who had fumbling issues, from Ahman Green to Adrian Peterson himself. Slaton did not have a fumbling issue last season, and put up one of the best years for a rookie RB in recent memory. He averaged about 5 ypc, so he clearly knows how to be a very productive every down RB.

What's unique about Slaton's fumbles has been the violent, negative reaction of his head coach. Each time he's fumbled, he has been immediately pulled from the game, and left on the sidelines for various lengths of time. This time, Kubiak simply left him there all game, as Moats cut through one of the weakest run defenses in the league. But to typical homer fans, this means that Moats is "better" than Slaton and should now be the starter. If you really think Moats is a better NFL RB than Slaton, and should now start after one good game, then I truly question anything else you say here.

Kubiak has never had anything good to say about Steve Slaton. He has apparently read some amateur psychology books, and thinks his absurdly extreme "tough love" approach will somehow motivate Slaton. Obviously that isn't working, but don't expect this clown to change. Right now, Slaton's confidence must be at an all time low- his coach has never shown him the least bit of support, and has made it crystal clear that zero mistakes will be tolerated from him. So guess what Slaton will be thinking every time that ball touches his hands? Hint- it won't be trying to gain yardage or create big plays.

I can guarantee you that Jeff Fisher would never treat Chris Johnson like this, if he started fumbling the ball. Going into this season, Fisher's public statements regarding his plans for his impressive rookie RB were logical- he said he wanted to get him more touches. Duh. Meanwhile, Kubiak's comments about his own just as impressive rookie RB (actually Slaton outgained Johnson last year, though you'd never know if from fans or the media) were just as illogical- "we need someone else to carry the ball," which was a direct jab at Slaton. This culminated earlier this season in his inexcusable public lament that his team didn't sign Cedric Benson. What coach has ever slapped his current starting RB in the face like that? It's no surprise that Johnson is looking great, because he's running with confidence and has no fear that his coach will bench him after a few fumbles. Slaton, on the other hand, was already pressing too hard, and will now almost certainly be a basket case each time he's given a touch (assuming rocket scientist Kubiak doesn't bench him for the rest of the season).

I've been watching football for over 40 years, and have never seen any good, let alone great (which Slaton should have been considered after his stellar rookie season) player treated with such disrespect by his coach, or the fans. At this point, if I was Slaton I would be asking for my release, so that he has a chance to catch on with a team that will value his skills.

Dan B.
11-02-2009, 01:16 AM
What short memories here, both in terms of the Texans and the history of the NFL in general. There are so many great runners from the past who had fumbling issues, from Ahman Green to Adrian Peterson himself. Slaton did not have a fumbling issue last season, and put up one of the best years for a rookie RB in recent memory. He averaged about 5 ypc, so he clearly knows how to be a very productive every down RB.

What's unique about Slaton's fumbles has been the violent, negative reaction of his head coach. Each time he's fumbled, he has been immediately pulled from the game, and left on the sidelines for various lengths of time. This time, Kubiak simply left him there all game, as Moats cut through one of the weakest run defenses in the league. But to typical homer fans, this means that Moats is "better" than Slaton and should now be the starter. If you really think Moats is a better NFL RB than Slaton, and should now start after one good game, then I truly question anything else you say here.

Kubiak has never had anything good to say about Steve Slaton. He has apparently read some amateur psychology books, and thinks his absurdly extreme "tough love" approach will somehow motivate Slaton. Obviously that isn't working, but don't expect this clown to change. Right now, Slaton's confidence must be at an all time low- his coach has never shown him the least bit of support, and has made it crystal clear that zero mistakes will be tolerated from him. So guess what Slaton will be thinking every time that ball touches his hands? Hint- it won't be trying to gain yardage or create big plays.

I can guarantee you that Jeff Fisher would never treat Chris Johnson like this, if he started fumbling the ball. Going into this season, Fisher's public statements regarding his plans for his impressive rookie RB were logical- he said he wanted to get him more touches. Duh. Meanwhile, Kubiak's comments about his own just as impressive rookie RB (actually Slaton outgained Johnson last year, though you'd never know if from fans or the media) were just as illogical- "we need someone else to carry the ball," which was a direct jab at Slaton. This culminated earlier this season in his inexcusable public lament that his team didn't sign Cedric Benson. What coach has ever slapped his current starting RB in the face like that? It's no surprise that Johnson is looking great, because he's running with confidence and has no fear that his coach will bench him after a few fumbles. Slaton, on the other hand, was already pressing too hard, and will now almost certainly be a basket case each time he's given a touch (assuming rocket scientist Kubiak doesn't bench him for the rest of the season).

I've been watching football for over 40 years, and have never seen any good, let alone great (which Slaton should have been considered after his stellar rookie season) player treated with such disrespect by his coach, or the fans. At this point, if I was Slaton I would be asking for my release, so that he has a chance to catch on with a team that will value his skills.

How did Fisher treat his Pro Bowl rookie Vince Young his sophomore year? Did he hold his hand and support him through his troubles? Or did he bench him after week 1 for a player that was performing better?

You act as if Slaton was puttering along in 2009 looking exactly the same as he did last year. Today was not his first fumble. And if he really can't hang on to the ball because the coach is giving him dirty looks, I shudder to think what he will do with it when someone actually hits him. Oh wait, we saw what he'd do.

Just like any NFL coach would, Kubiak or Fisher will start whoever he feels gives him the best chance to win. Turning the ball over once a game hurts those chances.

Mailman
11-02-2009, 01:24 AM
Wow. Unreals is using Slaton's accountability moment as an opportunity to bash Kubiak. His take on Kubiak's opinion of Slaton is factless and without merit, and I say that as someone who has defended Slaton from the critics here.

unreals
11-02-2009, 01:53 AM
The Vince Young comparison is not a good one- Fisher stood by him all throughout his miserable sophomore season. He started the third season, was injured and then had his unfortunate meltdown. Until then, Fisher was always a huge public supporter of his.

Please give me an example where any head coach has been this impatient- and I mean from the first fumble this season, with a player who had the kind of rookie season Slaton had. I maintain that this ridiculously "tough" approach by Kubiak, from the first game, has resulted in Slaton being more tenative and nervous when touching the ball. Despite this, he has still managed to make some big plays, but as yesterday shows, zero mistakes will be tolerated from him. Of course, this zero tolerance policy doesn't extend to Chris Brown, whose fumble at the goal line directly cost the Texans a victory, but didn't earn him a single negative word from Kubiak, or change in the least the way the coach utilized him.

Also please provide a single instance of a head coach publicly bemoaning the fact that his team didn't sign another player as a free agent. Kubiak did this several weeks back in regards to Cedric Benson. Who do you think might have been just the least offended by this statement?

At this point, Kubiak has probably succeeded in shattering Slaton's self- confidence to such an extent that he may not be able to recover. Have fun watching future hall of famer Ryan Moats lead the way to victory.

Mailman
11-02-2009, 01:58 AM
Do you even follow the Texans closely, or are you just a fantasy football owner who's mad about Slaton getting benched? You are spouting nothing but horsesh*t w/r/t the Benson situation, probably as a result of that steaming load rotoworld put out recently.

beerlover
11-02-2009, 02:02 AM
I have a signed Slaton Jersey hanging over my computer & it rules. since aquireing said jersey the Texans are 3-0.. not like I'm a Johnny come lately either since I also have a signed Slaton football pre-draft. that being said, I'm a huge Slaton fan. this could work in his & Texans favor. the blocking up front was best this season, I'm sure Slaton could have executed the plays just as well but given the circumstances, a message had to be sent.

Dan B.
11-02-2009, 02:05 AM
Right. Clearly benching Slaton in the 1st drive of a 31-10 rout where we ended up having our most effective rushing game all year (yeah yeah -- Buffalo has the worst rushing D in the league. They still made Slaton look like crap) was a grievous error on Gary's part. Lord knows why he's an NFL coach.

You could have picked a better game to claim Kubiak is out of his league bro. He's coached this team to the best record they've ever had at this point.

My god you are seriously claiming that Slaton can't hang onto the ball because his coach said Cedric Benson was a good back. Kubiak better never say Adrian Peterson is a good running back. If Steve's ego is as eggshell fragile as you claim then Slaton may just go into a VY pout for two years. If he fumbles every time someone says things about him, what the hell is he doing in the NFL?

It's not like Kubiak benched him after one play of game 1. He gave the guy half a season. He leads the league in fumbles. Slaton needed to be benched.

I'm not saying we need to trade Steve for a seventh round pick. I'm saying that when you have fumbled the ball 7 times in 7 games and proceed to fumble again on your second carry, you get to say hello to the bench for the rest of the game.

As far as starting next week, I'm fine with Slaton missing the first series. If that causes him to pout and give up his pro football career, he shouldn't be in the NFL in the first place.

Mailman
11-02-2009, 02:12 AM
The always excellent Mr. Burge addressed the supposed regret Kubiak had for not signing Benson way back in week two.

http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m9d22-Kubiaks-comments-about-Ced-Benson-being-twisted

Please read it, unreals.

ObsiWan
11-02-2009, 03:15 AM
At this point, if I was Slaton I would be asking for my release, so that he has a chance to catch on with a team that will value his skills.

At this point, Kubiak has probably succeeded in shattering Slaton's self- confidence to such an extent that he may not be able to recover. Have fun watching future hall of famer Ryan Moats lead the way to victory.


Very well-written posts. Too bad they're so incorrect.

from HT.com (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5732)...
(on growing concern with RB Steve Slaton's fumbling situation) "Yeah, it's very concerning. I think what happens in this league too is when you get a little bit of a reputation, you put a few balls on the ground for a couple of weeks, and it's almost like these guys just start getting more, a lot tougher, as far as holding you up. You know that's where he is at right now. I mean people smell blood because he's put some balls on the ground. So they're really getting after him. I told him when I walked in with him after the game, and I just said, ‘You know we're going to go as far as you take us. And you got to figure out a way to protect the football. We're gonna work with you throughout the week, but you just got to have the ability somehow to hang onto that football.' But Steve's our guy and I have a lot of confidence in him, and it's our job to help him find a way to hold onto the ball."

Those sure don't sound like the words of a coach that is trying to "shatter his player's self-confidence."

soooo... unless you're telling us that Slaton is a prima donna punk who has to be babied and be sweet-talked by his coach in order to perform, he will step up and overcome this issue.

Unless, of course, you think Slaton is ABOVE accountability to his teammates, coaches, and fans...?

unreals
11-02-2009, 03:55 AM
Quote:
(on growing concern with RB Steve Slaton's fumbling situation) "Yeah, it's very concerning. I think what happens in this league too is when you get a little bit of a reputation, you put a few balls on the ground for a couple of weeks, and it's almost like these guys just start getting more, a lot tougher, as far as holding you up. You know that's where he is at right now. I mean people smell blood because he's put some balls on the ground. So they're really getting after him. I told him when I walked in with him after the game, and I just said, ‘You know we're going to go as far as you take us. And you got to figure out a way to protect the football. We're gonna work with you throughout the week, but you just got to have the ability somehow to hang onto that football.' But Steve's our guy and I have a lot of confidence in him, and it's our job to help him find a way to hold onto the ball."

And Kubiak pulled him from the game after he fumbled on his second touch, then never put him back in. I guess they went "as far as" they did without using him at all. It's ironic that Kubiak accurately sees how other teams react to a back that's been fumbling, but fails to understand how his hard ass, unforgiving attitude- which started after the first fumble, has contributed to Slaton's problems.

Kubiak has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't trust Slaton, and I don't understand how Slaton could now trust him.

After the first few weeks of this season, I read many posts where Texans fans had already given up on Slaton, who had come off an astonishing rookie season that saw him average 5 ypc and lead the AFC in total yards. Now, Ryan Moats- who has never done a thing in several years in this league- is suddenly considered a superstar by many of these same fans. Really, how do you expect anyone who knows the least thing about football to respect your opinion when you reveal a lack of perspective like that? Steve Slaton is a great RB- let's hope he hasn't lost all his confidence.

Dan B.
11-02-2009, 04:23 AM
For the life of me I cannot wrap my head around this warped logic. Steve's fumbles are because Kubiak chews him out when he fumbles? Or because when someone asked Kubes about Benson he said we looked at him and determined that he didn't fit our offense? So why did Steve fumble in both the games prior to that statement? Do you think Steve is so fragile that he is going to fumble once a game unless he's the only RB on the roster?

This was not Slaton's first fumble man. It was his seventh. In 8 games. You don't see a problem there? Kubiak trusted him after his first fumble. And the second. And the third. The fourth. The fifth. And the sixth. Then he said, "enough." Apparently you believe that NFL coaches never bench players. I for one would be a helluva lot more pissed at Gary if he blithely let Steve fumble the ball every 13 carries indefinitely and just said "nice try that time Steve. You almost kept the football the entire play. Here's a lollipop. You are good enough. Smart enough. And doggone it, people like you," after he gave the game away. I don't want my grandmother leading the team, or anyone else to pat players' heads and tell them they are perfect no matter what they do. I want a coach.

Steve Slaton plays professional football. He is not a 6 year old playing PeeWee soccer where everyone gets an equal shot. In the NFL, those that produce start, and those that fail, sit. Steve's best game all year produced half the yards Moats did. But apparently Kubiak should just shut his eyes and say "Well, at least he did something last year." Maybe we should trade for Matt Cassell while we're at it. Hey, he was good in 2008, right?

Great RB's don't lose their confidence after a coach glares at them. Bad Rb's do. I'm certainly hoping Slaton falls in the first category.

silvrhand
11-02-2009, 08:00 AM
[QUOTE=unreals;1290550

Kubiak has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't trust Slaton, and I don't understand how Slaton could now trust him.
[/QUOTE]

Who cares about trust, it's about doing his job and running the ball without putting it on the ground, he's being careless with protecting the ball, not shifting it away from the defense, holding it with one arm out wide when he is in traffic. It's all mental mistakes for 75% of his fumbles. These aren't where he's getting hit helmet on the ball like the first one against the Jets.

I'm not saying Moats is a superstar, but he doesn't fumble and had a good game. That's all we need, we aren't a running team, we aren't the giants.
]

Carr Bombed
11-05-2009, 07:45 PM
Check out the picture on the houstontexans home page...

http://www.houstontexans.com/index2.html

(you have to click on the #4 tab and it's the "triple threat" headline).


THAT IS WHY HE'S PUTTING THE BALL ON THE GROUND.

Look at his carry technique compared to Moats and Brown.. Both Moats and Brown keep the ball high and tight and stretch their thumb out across the ball (almost a 90 degree angle in reference to the tip of the ball). Moats has the best technique on the team, Brown's is okay, and Slaton just flat out carries the ball like a loaf of bread. :rolleyes: Slaton is having a sophmore slump from hell and I don't think he's going to get it fixed this season.

Scooter
11-05-2009, 08:11 PM
that's a good picture of steve's problem. even bringing a second hand in preparing for a hit, look at how much of the ball is showing compared to the other two with just one arm. he's carrying the ball with his palms up, elbow at a 90 degree angle, and the ball's around his midsection. both brown and moats have their hand on the outside the football, elbow bent at a sharper angle to squeeze and shield the ball, and the ball held much higher towards the chest.

eriadoc
11-05-2009, 09:34 PM
Kubiak has made it perfectly clear that he doesn't trust Slaton, and I don't understand how Slaton could now trust him.

I don't see any reason why Kubiak should trust him. Slaton has demonstrated repeatedly that he cannot be trusted to secure the ball. What is worse is that the fumble vs. the Bills was not even forced. If you go back and watch the re[play in slo-mo, you see that Slaton just dropped it!

Slaton needs to be given opportunities to earn back trust, but at this point, he has to earn it. No one should trust him to secure the ball. He will get those opportunities because he is a way better back than Moats. What he does with those chances is all on him.

redwhiteANDblue
11-05-2009, 09:57 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d813f856a/WK-9-Playbook-Texans-vs-Colts


Skip over to where they talk about Texans RBs and you'll see the differences between their running styles. Unreals, your describing Slaton as some Hall of Fame RB, but he's not. He has the potential to be, but he's not. First he has to learn how to hold the ball correctly, and then use his blockers. He needs to atleast make some cuts and get it into his head that his blockers won't do everything for him. Moats has a better field vision so why not bench Slaton and put in a RB that single-handedly motivated the team to blow the bills out!

P.S- I love Slaton and it's hard for me to bash him like this, but it's the truth guys

:hothboy: << LOL

eriadoc
11-05-2009, 10:04 PM
Heh, that video does say a lot. I like Baldinger's jab at the Texans at the beginning, because I have often thought the same thing.

unreals
11-06-2009, 12:07 AM
Slaton is not a third down back. He is in the mold of Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook, smaller backs that can handle many touches and produce huge dividends on the ground and in the air. If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.

Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?

I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles- Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).

Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.

silvrhand
11-06-2009, 01:01 AM
Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.

Do we really need a superstar running back or just several the understand how the ZBS works and how they have to run. Moats hit the LOS so much faster than Slaton, and he was making use of some very small holes, Denver ran many 1000+ unknown rushers that were very good at using the ZBS.

Dan B.
11-06-2009, 01:02 AM
Slaton is not a third down back. He is in the mold of Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook, smaller backs that can handle many touches and produce huge dividends on the ground and in the air. If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.

Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?

I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles- Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).

Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.

Brian Westbrook was constantly injured when the Eagles tried to get him 30 or more touches per game. Since then, he had 20 or more touches in 4 games last year, and has yet to do so this year (that is rushes + receptions). By the way, Kubiak has gotten Slaton involved to that extent in 4 games this year so far and it is only half over -- pretty odd that you say he needs to be used more, like Westbrook, when he is used more than Westbrook is already. Westbrook's highest number of carries this year is 13, and he hasn't had double digit carries since week 2. Granted, that is because he is injured yet again. Because he isn't big enough to be an every down back.

Carr Bombed
11-06-2009, 01:17 AM
If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, yada yada yada...yak yak yak...


WTF ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???


First things first....

If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.

Umm, Kubiak would love nothing more than have the ability to build his offense around a running back and a strong running game (infact it possibly cost him two victories in the first 3 games), but Slaton keeps putting the damn ball on the ground everytime he tries to go to Slaton and on top of that, he's lost some of his quickness/explosiveness because Slaton decided to add weght during the offseason (and people please spare me the "he's still quick and fast as ever" crap......I still have all the game tape of him last year.....he's not the same player). I even mentioned as much this past offseason....I WATCHED this guy throughout his college career, I saw this coming (but even I couldn't predict that he would fall this far)

I mean you're really going to question Kubiak and Gibbs....the two guys who never had a problem with finding a creative way to use a RB in their careers, but don't question Slaton?

Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?

LMFAO!!! Ahman Green...you do know that the guy who Kubiak allowed to "hold Slaton down last year" only carried the ball 74 TIMES all of last season......that's only 4.6 carries a game. :rolleyes: Whew! you are funny, what a joke. You do realize EVERY SINGLE TEAM IN THE NFL has a #2 back? Even Adrian Peterson has Chester Taylor :rolleyes:

As far as Chris Brown, he was never signed to take Slaton's carries. He was signed to help on short goal line carries.....where Slaton struggled last season. (where Houston struggled horribly last season.) That was NOT anything against Slaton, it was just the same thing that EVERY NFL TEAM DOES. (especially teams that have smallish RBs who struggle at the goal line).

As far as the "totally unprofessional move". Kubiak was just being honest...yeah, if they knew then, what they know now...they would like to have the "NFL's LEADING RUSHER" when their back is getting tackled in the backfield and laying the ball on the ground every single game. (LMAO, who wouldn't want the NFL's leading rusher?)

I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles

Again, WTF are you talking about? Shanahan lost ALOT of those runners because they either wanted high priced contracts (way more than they were worth to keep) or other teams offered a kings' ransom for them (alot more than they were worth).......please point to where that has happened here.. Please point to where either

A. Slaton entered the end of his contract and another team offered him a expensive FA contract

or

B. A team offered a trade that you just couldn't turn down for Steve Slaton...

Unless either of those things have happened you simply have no clue of what you're talking about.

Also LMAO at the "Forget Slaton's fumbles".....yeah, let's all just "forget the most important thing that EVERY HEAD COACH ASKS A YOUNG PLAYER TO DO." Which is to HOLD ON TO THE DAMN BALL! Truth is on any other team that was trying to make a push for the playoffs, Slaton would've been benched a LONG time ago. Even Slaton knows this.



Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).


And this couldn't be further from the truth, Kubiak said Slaton was "drafted to be a third down back".....guess what? Every team in the league had that grade on him...it's the reason why he went in the middle of the 3rd round. Kubiak then praised Slaton for how much he exceeded their expectations....which is nothing like the spin you're trying to put out. My god, this is the same coach who dispite benching Slaton for fumbling the ball, told Slaton that the team still needs him and they still believe in him (but you forgot that.)

There is nothing Kubiak would love more than for Slaton to get his shit together and be the runner that he was last year and the fact that he hasn't been the back that he was last year isn't anybody's fault except his own.

IT'S SLATON'S FAULT.... Kubiak has done nothing but put him in situations where he could succeed, which is why when it became apparent Slaton couldn't run the ball like he did last year, Kubiak started getting involved on screens just so he could find ways to get the ball in his hands. Hell Kubiak has practically been wiping the guy's ass this year. :rolleyes: God forbid if he had a coach like Belichick. I don't know many coaches who would put up with a 3.1 ypc runner that put the ball on the ground 7 damn times in only 8 games :rolleyes:

ObsiWan
11-06-2009, 01:50 AM
Slaton is not a third down back. He is in the mold of Tiki Barber and Brian Westbrook, smaller backs that can handle many touches and produce huge dividends on the ground and in the air. If Kubiak didn't have some sort of bizarre personal issue with Slaton, he would have already been trying to build his offense around him, much like the Eagles have used Westbrook so creatively over the years.

Instead, last season Kubiak stuck with the likes of washed up Ahman Green, as long as he could, in order to hold down Slaton's touches. This season, he was already using mediocre journeyman Chris Brown at the goal line (how about giving Slaton a chance first? He didn't do poorly last season, and should have been given the first crack at it). He also publicly bemoaned his team's failure to sign Cedric Benson. That was a totally unprofessional move, almost unprecedented for a head coach in the NFL. How did he expect his starting RB to feel after hearing those comments?

I suspect that Kubiak also has a lot of Shanahan in him. Shanny loved to change RBs, often for no rational reason. I think both of them feel that their "system" is so brilliant and works so well, thus they can plug any scrub back they find (and Moats is a perfect example of that) in and produce results. Forget Slaton's fumbles- Kubiak was screwing with him in the offseason, before he had any fumbling problem. The guy never really praised him for his stellar rookie season, and continued with his "we expected him to be no more than a third down back, and he really surprised us" posture in regards to a rookie back that put up better numbers than Chris Johnson. There was never a moment where his words or actions indicated that the team was content with Slaton as the starter, and were willing to build things around him to make him even better (like their woeful offensive line).

Look, maybe Moats is the next Priest Holmes. No one saw that coming, either. However, I really think it's far more likely that he is what he is- a run of the mill backup RB. Slaton, on the other hand, showed us all during his first season (and in flashes this year) just how special he can be. We all ought to remember that, and hope that Kubiak gives him an opportunity.

where was all this concern about Slaton's fragile feelings during draft day?
remember when there was a great cry - from some - that we should draft a RB to take the load off Slaton because some were worried that we'd run him into the ground?

I don't recall this concern about his psyche then. Even those of us who weren't absolutely p.o.'d that we didn't draft a RB were hoping that one of the UDFA would take some of the load off of Slaton's shoulders. So now Moats has stepped up and has shown the potential to be able to do just that - to keep Slaton from being worn down, now there's a problem with it??? What changed?

I don't get it. This isn't a problem. It's a blessing. Make use of them both and go with whoever's hot.

PHAROAH
11-06-2009, 03:24 AM
Slaton will bounce back he is a playmaker supreme and has just been going through a rough patch, all good running backs have them it all depends on how they deal with it. I believe in Steve Slaton he is our best running back hands down and no one said this last season when he lead the AFC in total yards from scrimmage.

Carr Bombed
11-06-2009, 03:39 AM
Oh crap, here comes unreals... :wacko:

unreals
11-06-2009, 03:55 AM
Pharoh- I appreciate your lone voice of reason.

Carr Bombed,

As so many bandwagon type personalities do, you are violently arguing the "majority" view- Slaton is a fumbler, they should sit his ass down, etc. At least you didn't shout "he sucks!" That was kind of you. You fail to understand the big picture, or to put this into a larger perspective, which is par for the course from typical fans.

Nothing happens in a vacuum- your fan like "hunch" that Slaton wasn't running well, backed up I'm certain by a series of loud "I told yous," may play well with other bandwagon type mentalities, but they don't impress anyone who has the least bit of insight. Slaton's fumbling has unquestionably been exacerbated by Kubiak's initial response to his first fumble. That's not even debatable. Now, perhaps he still would have a fumbling problem if Kubiak had been more patient with him, not blasted him publicly about it and not yanked him angrily from the game each time he put the ball on the ground. We'll never know, because he never reacted any other way than in knee jerk anger. Because the fumbling problem only got worse, obviously Kubiak's reaction to it didn't help. Again- not even debatable.

So many of the posts on this forum provide concrete proof about the lack of respect Slaton has received from everyone in Houston. Do you guys even understand how his rookie season stacked up against other outstanding running backs in NFL history? Of course, that's not important to you, because he's down now and you're following the lead of "your" head coach by kicking him instead of helping him up. When Slaton gets a chance to shine again (here or elsewhere), you will forget your hard ass words and cheer him as loudly as the next bandwagon fan (at least if he's still a Texan). You will also forget who Ryan Moats is just as quickly. Your comparison of Slaton to Wali Lundy really reveals your lack of knowledge- Lundy was a very, very brief flash in the plan (probably much like Moats will be), while Slaton had a super productive rookie year. Apples and Oranges.

Again, give me an example of any team making RB a high priority after their rookie RB has put up the kind of numbers Slaton did. You won't even bother, because it's an unparalleled situation. Also, give me another example of a head coach commenting publicly on his team's failure to sign a free agent, in terms that most of us would consider to be regretful. You won't find any examples of this, either, because coaches typically don't comment on things like that. Your mob mentality is showing. Reading some of these comments reminds one of why public hangings used to be so popular.

PHAROAH
11-06-2009, 04:22 AM
Pharoh- I appreciate your lone voice of reason.

Carr Bombed,

As so many bandwagon type personalities do, you are violently arguing the "majority" view- Slaton is a fumbler, they should sit his ass down, etc. At least you didn't shout "he sucks!" That was kind of you. You fail to understand the big picture, or to put this into a larger perspective, which is par for the course from typical fans.

Nothing happens in a vacuum- your fan like "hunch" that Slaton wasn't running well, backed up I'm certain by a series of loud "I told yous," may play well with other bandwagon type mentalities, but they don't impress anyone who has the least bit of insight. Slaton's fumbling has unquestionably been exacerbated by Kubiak's initial response to his first fumble. That's not even debatable. Now, perhaps he still would have a fumbling problem if Kubiak had been more patient with him, not blasted him publicly about it and not yanked him angrily from the game each time he put the ball on the ground. We'll never know, because he never reacted any other way than in knee jerk anger. Because the fumbling problem only got worse, obviously Kubiak's reaction to it didn't help. Again- not even debatable.

So many of the posts on this forum provide concrete proof about the lack of respect Slaton has received from everyone in Houston. Do you guys even understand how his rookie season stacked up against other outstanding running backs in NFL history? Of course, that's not important to you, because he's down now and you're following the lead of "your" head coach by kicking him instead of helping him up. When Slaton gets a chance to shine again (here or elsewhere), you will forget your hard ass words and cheer him as loudly as the next bandwagon fan (at least if he's still a Texan). You will also forget who Ryan Moats is just as quickly. Your comparison of Slaton to Wali Lundy really reveals your lack of knowledge- Lundy was a very, very brief flash in the plan (probably much like Moats will be), while Slaton had a super productive rookie year. Apples and Oranges.

Again, give me an example of any team making RB a high priority after their rookie RB has put up the kind of numbers Slaton did. You won't even bother, because it's an unparalleled situation. Also, give me another example of a head coach commenting publicly on his team's failure to sign a free agent, in terms that most of us would consider to be regretful. You won't find any examples of this, either, because coaches typically don't comment on things like that. Your mob mentality is showing. Reading some of these comments reminds one of why public hangings used to be so popular.

Great post for the franchise running back and that's how you show love baby boy and I hope Steve Slaton go off on the colts this weekend.

Marcus
11-06-2009, 04:46 AM
unreals, I think you're being totally insincere in your latest posts. They go way beyond just having different a opinion. You're ignoring any responses to your totally baseless assertions.

In my opinion, you need to be banned for being a troll.

Dan B.
11-06-2009, 05:08 AM
Right. There's no evidence whatsoever that Slaton has played like crap this year -- only hunches. You said they aren't getting him the ball enough and need to use him like Brian Westbrook. I pointed out that I'd be happy if they did since Westbrook touches the ball less than Slaton does, which also makes a mockery of your assertion that Kubiak hates poor Stevie and needs to learn from Reid. If Kubiak did, he'd use Slaton even less and you'd probably pop a blood vessel.

You have an odd tendency of saying hotly debated topics that you have completely ignored responses to are "not even debatable." I guess it's not a debate when you ignore everything you don't like. It's just you spouting the same tired disproven crap.

beerlover
11-06-2009, 06:13 AM
It's more a case of "what have you done for me lately" the attention span of the average sport fan is atrocious, how easily they forget! But I seriously doubt these coaches or teammates forget which will be on display Sunday in Indianaplois. A team that stays together, plays together, it's that us against the world mentality that make Texans such a good road team 3-1 while 2-2 @ home.

The key to beating the Colts is simple. Run the ball effectively so you control the clock, thus keeping the defense fresh & do not turn the ball over. Everybody needs to play a clean game & just execute. :texflag:

Brisco_County
11-06-2009, 04:17 PM
http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d813f856a/WK-9-Playbook-Texans-vs-Colts


Skip over to where they talk about Texans RBs and you'll see the differences between their running styles. Unreals, your describing Slaton as some Hall of Fame RB, but he's not. He has the potential to be, but he's not. First he has to learn how to hold the ball correctly, and then use his blockers. He needs to atleast make some cuts and get it into his head that his blockers won't do everything for him. Moats has a better field vision so why not bench Slaton and put in a RB that single-handedly motivated the team to blow the bills out!

P.S- I love Slaton and it's hard for me to bash him like this, but it's the truth guys

:hothboy: << LOL

I watched McFadden do the exact same thing early this season in a game against the Chargers. He was carrying the ball low, and I told everyone in the room he was about to fumble. Sure enough, it happen two plays later.

The good thing is that the problem is correctable. It just takes discipline. Some players need to be benched to cease the reinforcement of bad habits. I'm a huge Slaton fan, and I'm confident he'll bounce back.

Carr Bombed
11-06-2009, 04:20 PM
Unreals is not a Texans fan.......he's a Steve Slaton fan. Just check out his post history, Slaton is the only thing he talks about. Anybody who's actually a fan of this team can realize how Slaton has hurt us and wouldn't be looking for other people to pass blame onto.

eriadoc
11-06-2009, 09:45 PM
Carr Bombed,

As so many bandwagon type personalities do ...

Dude, you are the worst poster we've had since JohnsonFan. First of all, try responding with reason to the responses that people have granted you. Second, you evidently don't know JACK about "bandwagon" fans, since we've all been here since the beginning. We've been discussing the team and supporting the team (most of us monetarily) since the beginning. We sat in the stands through 2-14. I'd continue my line of thought, but I'm going to honor the board rules and take it easy on you.

unreals, I think you're being totally insincere in your latest posts. They go way beyond just having different a opinion. You're ignoring any responses to your totally baseless assertions.

In my opinion, you need to be banned for being a troll.

I agree.

Unreals is not a Texans fan.......he's a Steve Slaton fan. Just check out his post history, Slaton is the only thing he talks about. Anybody who's actually a fan of this team can realize how Slaton has hurt us and wouldn't be looking for other people to pass blame onto.

That's about as bandwagon as it gets. Didn't we have a few fans of another specific player that disappeared when said player did? Hmmmm ....

Unreals, either engage or STFU. You asserted XYZ, people rebutted. All you've done since is repeat yourself with no basis in fact.

The Cush
11-06-2009, 10:42 PM
I'm really afraid to see what the reprecussions are going to be, not just in terms of Slaton's playing time but also to his pysche, if he puts the ball on the turf again against the Colts. You could see how frustrated he was after his last fumble and how thin Kubiak's patience is getting by the benching

eriadoc
11-06-2009, 11:32 PM
I'm really afraid to see what the reprecussions are going to be, not just in terms of Slaton's playing time but also to his pysche, if he puts the ball on the turf again against the Colts. You could see how frustrated he was after his last fumble and how thin Kubiak's patience is getting by the benching

Whatever they are, they will have been earned. You can't continually screw up that drastically at your job without consequences.

The Cush
11-06-2009, 11:43 PM
Whatever they are, they will have been earned. You can't continually screw up that drastically at your job without consequences.

Yep, they will definately be earned...but my main worry is though, are these fumbles going to start affecting Slaton's play/living up to his potential? He's an extremely promising young player with tons of upside, will his next fumble be a breaking point that permanently affects head where he's afraid to do the things that have made him successful in the past because he's so worried about fumbling, thus impeding his growth as a player? One of my favorite attributes of Slaton is his will to fight for every yard after initital contact, constantly churning his feet to move the pile. Will he feel the need to abandon this to be more conservative with the ball?

DexmanC
11-07-2009, 12:11 AM
Slaton is not only fumbling, but he's no longer doing the one-cut style
that made him so effective last year. Everytime the offensive line
slides to the outside, Slaton ALWAYS tries to bounce the ball outside.
He's not seeing that cutback lane which Moats exploited all game long!
It's a short window to get in there, but you've got to GET IN THERE.

If Steve were to do so, he'd get his 5 yards a carry, plus the one on one
with a linebacker or DB. If he would get back to doing the one-cut, which
Moats and Brown (although not as effective) are, he'd be the feature back
we know he could be!

GP
11-07-2009, 01:02 AM
Slaton is not only fumbling, but he's no longer doing the one-cut style
that made him so effective last year. Everytime the offensive line
slides to the outside, Slaton ALWAYS tries to bounce the ball outside.
He's not seeing that cutback lane which Moats exploited all game long!
It's a short window to get in there, but you've got to GET IN THERE.

If Steve were to do so, he'd get his 5 yards a carry, plus the one on one
with a linebacker or DB. If he would get back to doing the one-cut, which
Moats and Brown (although not as effective) are, he'd be the feature back
we know he could be!

"You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DexmanC again."

Tried to give you rep, but couldn't.

Well said. There's a sense, with Slaton, that he thinks he can slow down and find the hole to go through as it opens up. Moats is gashing through the first sliver of an opening he can find.

Slaton seems to have lots of plays where he gets nothing, maybe even loses yards. Then he kinda' tip-toes around and finds that cut-back lane he had been looking for on the previous 5 or 6 carries.

Moats doesn't seem to break big plays, but he somehow grinds out 2 or 3 yards every time. Then he breaks off a 10-yarder.

It's easy, as a head coach, to look at the two guys--even without the fumbling problem--and decide you want more of one than the other. The fumbling issue just seals that idea in the mind of the head coach, IMO.

GNTLEWOLF
11-07-2009, 01:21 AM
Slaton is not only fumbling, but he's no longer doing the one-cut style
that made him so effective last year. Everytime the offensive line
slides to the outside, Slaton ALWAYS tries to bounce the ball outside.
He's not seeing that cutback lane which Moats exploited all game long!
It's a short window to get in there, but you've got to GET IN THERE.

If Steve were to do so, he'd get his 5 yards a carry, plus the one on one
with a linebacker or DB. If he would get back to doing the one-cut, which
Moats and Brown (although not as effective) are, he'd be the feature back
we know he could be!

To add to what you are saying.... I have also noticed Slaton is running with his head down...like he is looking at the ground as he takes the hand-off....I wonder if this might be part of his problem with not seeing the cut back lanes

Dan B.
11-07-2009, 01:30 AM
To add to what you are saying.... I have also noticed Slaton is running with his head down...like he is looking at the ground as he takes the hand-off....I wonder if this might be part of his problem with not seeing the cut back lanes

OF COURSE his head is down. Mean Gary Kubiak has been chewing him out and throwing him under the bus. How is an NFL athlete supposed to run with his head held high when his coach chewed him out for fumbling?

I think we should all send Slaton a virtual hug. The positive vibes will help him through this.

redwhiteANDblue
11-07-2009, 03:01 PM
check this out guys

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPEjCWyQ6yA

The way he ran last season is completely different from how he runs this season. Ryan Moats looks like 2008 Steve Slaton

ObsiWan
11-07-2009, 04:26 PM
Slaton will bounce back he is a playmaker supreme and has just been going through a rough patch, all good running backs have them it all depends on how they deal with it. I believe in Steve Slaton he is our best running back hands down and no one said this last season when he lead the AFC in total yards from scrimmage.
That's all I've been saying. From everything I've seen in the HT.com and Chron.com quotes, that's what Kubiak has been saying too.

I don't know why having two productive RBs is a bad thing like some folks seem to believe.

Marcus
11-07-2009, 05:38 PM
I guess some people give a name to their asses, called last year, or in some cases, 2008.

And some people have their heads still there. Pull them out, and breathe some fresh "what have you done for me lately" air. Might just untwist some of that convoluted logic.

:)

eriadoc
08-15-2010, 03:15 AM
Zombie thread, just for perspective.