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View Full Version : If DJ is gone?!


Dionysus22
02-20-2005, 06:10 AM
If DJ is already taken at 13, what are the chances that David Pollack from Georgia being there and us getting him? He's converting from DE to LB. He did win the Defensive Player of the Year award and was a terror on the pass rush. I think he would fit great in our scheme and have an easier switch from DE to LB than Babin. I'd still rather have DJ but if he isn't there and this guy still is...which would you rather have?

LikeABoss
02-20-2005, 09:05 AM
If DJ is already taken at 13, what are the chances that David Pollack from Georgia being there and us getting him? He's converting from DE to LB. He did win the Defensive Player of the Year award and was a terror on the pass rush. I think he would fit great in our scheme and have an easier switch from DE to LB than Babin. I'd still rather have DJ but if he isn't there and this guy still is...which would you rather have?

The dude is great at rushing the passer, but he has no experience in coverage so that would be a concern if we brought him in. If we are gonna draft an OLB, my pick would be Shawn Merriman because he has experince with dropping back in coverage and he can also rush the passer as well.

Honoring Earl 34
02-20-2005, 09:17 AM
:howdy: The Texans thought Babin was a good enough all around athelete to make the switch . It takes more than just rushing the passer . They have to cover TEs and RBs sometimes . At the end of the day its a big risk at 13 when you have good players on the board .

TheTim5125
02-20-2005, 09:53 AM
If he's not a good coverage guy send him to the LB coach or maybe the DB coach they'll teach em thats what they're there for.

Honoring Earl 34
02-20-2005, 10:06 AM
:howdy: What if he just has straight ahead speed ? What if he is not a fluid player ? You can't just decide this what we're going to do . Besides our linebackers are'nt exactly the weakest link .

beerlover
02-20-2005, 01:35 PM
what if DJ is gone, is Marcus Spears available? what if both Marcus Spears & DJ are gone, select Justin Miller CB

BuffSoldier
02-20-2005, 01:36 PM
I love the way Pollack plays with the intesity and his pass rush ability, but if we only were looking for a pass rush then Antwaan Peek would have been starting a long time ago. I would not take a risk when we have some good OLBs already, plus I think 13 is too high for David.

Sarg01
02-20-2005, 04:41 PM
Assuming 2 QBs and at least 2 RBs go in the Top 12, we only need to account for 9 picks:

1. Derrick Johnson
2. Adam "Pac-Man" Jones
3. Antrell Rolle
4. Braylon Edwards
5. Marcus Spears
6. Mike Williams
---- Trade Down Threshold. Trade down possible below this line ----
7. Thomas Davis
8. Shawne Merriman
9. #3 RB (higher if it's Ronnie Brown)

Dionysus22
02-21-2005, 07:53 PM
I love the way Pollack plays with the intesity and his pass rush ability, but if we only were looking for a pass rush then Antwaan Peek would have been starting a long time ago. I would not take a risk when we have some good OLBs already, plus I think 13 is too high for David.

Good point. But if 13 is too high for David, is it too high for DJ?

nunusguy
02-21-2005, 08:39 PM
If we are gonna draft an OLB, my pick would be Shawn Merriman because he has experince with dropping back in coverage and he can also rush the passer as well.
This guy is supposed to be a tremendous athelete who will excell in workouts
whether its the Indy combine or college day for his school which is Maryland.
This is the kinda guy whos rating may be very volatile between now and the draft in April: there's uncertainty because he projects/is most attractive as an OLB in 3-4 teams like ours but was a DE in college, i.e. he's a tweener. One thing in that regard that's disappointing - Maryland is one of the few colleges that plays 3-4 D but this guy was basically a DE, though he was involved in some pass D coverage. In other words, he missed a golden opportunity to develope and learn as a 3-4 OLB in what will be his natural position in the NFL.

Blake
02-22-2005, 11:34 AM
Here is the plan. Find a way to trade down twice, into the 2nd round. So we get 2 extra 2nds.

RD2 Elton Brown G
RD2 David Baas G/C
RD2 Wesley Britt T
RD3 Logan Mankins G/T
RD3 Jason Brown C

haha. now i know this looks funny, but it was just for fun. After a draft like this, it wouldnt matter who you put at RB, or QB. they would have all day to find a reciver, and a running lane.

beerlover
02-22-2005, 12:58 PM
Here is the plan. Find a way to trade down twice, into the 2nd round. So we get 2 extra 2nds.

RD2 Elton Brown G
RD2 David Baas G/C
RD2 Wesley Britt T
RD3 Logan Mankins G/T
RD3 Jason Brown C

haha. now i know this looks funny, but it was just for fun. After a draft like this, it wouldnt matter who you put at RB, or QB. they would have all day to find a reciver, and a running lane.

it would add new meaning to "the running of the Bulls". or "Bull Pen" etc....

but seriously Brown/Baas should both be at least late 1st rd picks, but I like your idea anyway.

Wild Bill
02-22-2005, 02:31 PM
Here is the plan. Find a way to trade down twice, into the 2nd round. So we get 2 extra 2nds.

RD2 Elton Brown G
RD2 David Baas G/C
RD2 Wesley Britt T
RD3 Logan Mankins G/T
RD3 Jason Brown C

haha. now i know this looks funny, but it was just for fun. After a draft like this, it wouldnt matter who you put at RB, or QB. they would have all day to find a reciver, and a running lane.


The one thing to keep in mind is that whoever we draft at 13, most likely will not be a starter for the Texans this year unless injury forces him into the lineup. That being said, I think the Texans will address the #2 wide receiver position in free agency. I also think they will try to pick up a D-Lineman in FA. Shawn Marriman would be an awesome project for the Texans. The guy is a physical freak. However, I would be happy with Spears, Jones, or Williamson with our 13th pick.

Forget about DJ. Forget about Mike Williams. Mark my words ,those guys will be long gone by #13.

Blake
02-22-2005, 03:42 PM
The one thing to keep in mind is that whoever we draft at 13, most likely will not be a starter for the Texans this year unless injury forces him into the lineup. That being said, I think the Texans will address the #2 wide receiver position in free agency. I also think they will try to pick up a D-Lineman in FA. Shawn Marriman would be an awesome project for the Texans. The guy is a physical freak. However, I would be happy with Spears, Jones, or Williamson with our 13th pick.

Forget about DJ. Forget about Mike Williams. Mark my words ,those guys will be long gone by #13.

Good post. I agree that those players will be gone. Big names just dont last on draft day. But I dont think our #13 will be a backup. I think they will try to get this guy on the field asap. I mean its not like we have a team of pro bowlers. Baas would be a starter. Elton Brown would be a starter. And I agree on getting a FA WR. I would hate to use #13 on a player like Williamson.

BuffSoldier
02-22-2005, 08:15 PM
Good point. But if 13 is too high for David, is it too high for DJ?

Definitely not, personally I think that it is too low for someone with the type of talent, plus he would play ILB in the 3-4. IMO DJ is the top prospect in the draft, but thats just me. DJ and Pollack have the same type of work ethic, good motor, and fly around giving 100%, but it comes down to DJ being faster, and more athletic in both the pass and run game, thats what pushes DJ over the top.

wiley2002
02-22-2005, 08:25 PM
If our go to guys aren't there at #13, I think we should trade down in the first round and get a center. Sounds like that's a strong point in this draft. Then we can have two second rounders to play with. That should make up for only having two first day picks last year. Not saying that was a bad thing. I thought it worked in the end.

nunusguy
02-22-2005, 09:04 PM
The one thing to keep in mind is that whoever we draft at 13, most likely will not be a starter for the Texans this year unless injury forces him into the lineup.

The latest group think on this MB has been that we would take a CB with our
top pick because its a strong year for CBs and AG is getting long in the tooth.
Under that scenario it would be unlikely that the top pick would start the first
year. The thing is, he might not start his second year either because AG may
still be playing well or Faggins (a very good reserve) may beat out both
AG and the top pick by then. So right now we have 2 frontline CBs and a very good reserve (and our nickle back).
Compare that to the DL where we only have one real frontline player - we need help "now" up front. And we still need a real edge rusher to play
weak side OLB (and unlike Peek, one who can play the run to). And Bradford
is probably gone - so we look to the draft for our #2.
Between WR, DL, and the LB positions, FWIW I think we'll find a better player than what's still on the Board @ corner. And its very likely he'll be starting for us this year.

edo783
02-22-2005, 11:12 PM
The latest group think on this MB has been that we would take a CB with our
top pick because its a strong year for CBs and AG is getting long in the tooth.
Under that scenario it would be unlikely that the top pick would start the first
year. The thing is, he might not start his second year either because AG may
still be playing well or Faggins (a very good reserve) may beat out both
AG and the top pick by then. So right now we have 2 frontline CBs and a very good reserve (and our nickle back).
Compare that to the DL where we only have one real frontline player - we need help "now" up front. And we still need a real edge rusher to play
weak side OLB (and unlike Peek, one who can play the run to). And Bradford
is probably gone - so we look to the draft for our #2.
Between WR, DL, and the LB positions, FWIW I think we'll find a better player than what's still on the Board @ corner. And its very likely he'll be starting for us this year.


Pretty good thoughts. However, the issue with waiting on a starting level CB is that they seldom get past the middle of the 1st round. Sure, we might be able to get one latter, but the odds go down a lot. If things play out like I think most of us excpect, then this could be the last time in a long time that we will be in a position to get a top level CB without doing a lot of horse trading to get up far enough in the draft to get one. With the talent at CB that should be available when we pick, then IO we shoul;d pull the trigger. DE's and LBs are often found in round 2 & 3 atleast more often than CBs are.

Paragon Blue
02-26-2005, 02:46 AM
Saw another mock draft on ESPN news. DJ wasn't in the top ten. Would we pick him if he fell that far.Just wondering.

powda
02-26-2005, 12:41 PM
casserly has always placed a huge emphasis on the cornerback postion...lookback to the expansion draft and then ofcourse #10 last year.

reasons to select a cornerback in the 1st rd who wont start?

-manning.

-glenn's age

-glenn's recent history of injuries

-faggins.................sorry folks but im not sold on him.

-more quality cb's then any other postion....wich means the bpa could very well turn out to be a cb. and i think we all know the bpa is the cornerstone to how casserly drafts.

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as far as derrick johnson...i think hes the best player in this draft ,and the most ready to make an impact on the field. if he's there you take him without hesitation...but he wont be there.
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one of my bigger concerns with drafting a defensive lineman is our draft track record...hill has to be the worst pick in our brief history. in addition to that we've drafted a handfull of guys later on who never came close to turning out. as a whole this draft is weak for defensive linemen that fit a 3-4.

but there is a definite need for young defensive lineman on this team. no disputing that.

------------------------

wr. bradfords as good as gone...for good reason. horrible production and a bad salary. im keen on derrick mason depending on how much money he wants. if we dont go the free agency route i think we'll do fine in the draft. with so many great free agency wr's i can see a lot of prospects slipping in the draft. i think a quality wr can be had in the late 3rd to 4th. i like gaffney but i'm not sold on him as a #2 and i think he fits the slot better anyway.

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we have to get interior line help. i think our tackles will be fine. pitts showed potential as a tackle and will only get better as a guard. weigert wasnt horrible when he didnt have nagging injuries...i expect him to have a much better season. mckinney's gotta go. i'd love to see baas as his replacement but thats going to require a trade.

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te. ofcourse joppru is a wild card...im willing to give him 1 more season. you know what to expect from miller and bruner. the only draft pick i wanna see dedicated here is a 5 or later on a developmental player. i think with better line play miller and bruner (or jop) resurface as downfield targets. i dont think its as crucial as some people make it out to be. i do like heath miller but hes not worth the #13 in my opinion.

threetoedpete
02-26-2005, 03:51 PM
Dang it Powda. What the heck or we supposed to talk about now till the end of April ? Nice post. Still believe DJ can move to DB. JMHO. Probably on't be there though.

powda
02-26-2005, 10:26 PM
i cant see dj as a db at all.

and im wondering is your opinion toward my post the consensus? i dunno how many times i've posted and then the thread goes dead. i'd almost convinced myself i was offending people when all i really wanted was a little feedback.

WildBlackBear32
02-26-2005, 10:30 PM
i cant see dj as a db at all.

Aye. You dont waste his abilities at a DB position. The only way I can see him being a DB sorta, is being a dropback OLB. He's got enough smarts and speed to really accel at making big plays at a dropback position.

texasguy346
02-26-2005, 10:55 PM
and im wondering is your opinion toward my post the consensus? i dunno how many times i've posted and then the thread goes dead. i'd almost convinced myself i was offending people when all i really wanted was a little feedback.

Well as far as I'm concerned I really enjoy most of your posts, and you've never offended me. I find that many of your views I agree with, but there are always a few exceptions. In your above post the only thing I don't really agree with you about is the Faggins thing. I think he's a fine CB, and he'll be a nice fit as a nickle CB, but I'm not sure he'll ever be a starter for this team. That doesn't mean I don't think he could be a starter for several other NFL teams. Indianapolis, Green Bay, San Fran, and Jacksonville all strike me as places where he could be a starter. Those teams all lack quality talent and depth at CB, and would love to have a guy like Faggins. However, I'm not on high on Faggins as some on this board are. Some think he could be a starter whenever Glenn retires, and I don't feel that he'd be capable of being an every down guy for an entire season.

infantrycak
02-26-2005, 11:13 PM
i cant see dj as a db at all.

Aye. You dont waste his abilities at a DB position.

While DJ certainly has a good chance of making a great 3-4 ILB he certainly might make a great SS as well. Look at Michael Boulware last year. 5lbs lighter than DJ and ended up changing positions and having a better year than Sean Taylor. DJ has much more experience dropping into coverage than pass rushing--and by that I mean specifically as Casserly refers to it as the distinction between pass rushing and blitzing. He undoubtedly will be tried at LB first in the NFL and most likely succeed there but converting him to SS or playing him in a cover 2 very light & fast LB mode might be his biggest impact spots. Sure would like to see his coverage skills at Foreman's spot--he can't be much worse at the point of attack.

powda
02-26-2005, 11:20 PM
i appreciate your comments. thanks.

as for faggins...im not convinced he can (should) ever be a starter for us. he's scrappy and physical. i do like his tenacity. but he's a small guy and he always becomes the victim opposing teams look to take advantage of.

-kinda like how eric brown was abused by antonio gates...we knew he wasnt great in coverage but no one had made it so obvious.

-kinda like how foreman was abused (i believe it was the vikings game ) over and over again in coverage and all of a sudden the general consensus felt ilb was in urgent need of an upgrade.

i just get the feeling if faggins is on the field quarterbacks make a special note of where he is and favor the wrs hes covering. our 1st 3 cornerbacks are all about 5'9 or smaller and it becomes an apparent disadvantage everytime we're in the redzone. how many times has drew bennet killed us? i just dont think we match up well with exceptionally tall recievers. i'd like to see us pickup a new nickleback around 6'1 in maybe the 2nd or 3rd round. if we can upgrade our corner postion enough to have faggins as a dimeback i'd be happy. as things stand now, we're 1 injury away from having faggins as our starter. in my opinion that would make for a VERY long season.

powda
02-26-2005, 11:30 PM
infantry, i'll agree dj is fast enough to play safety. i just wouldnt wanna waste his physicality and read and react skills at that potion. he seems to follow the ball well so i think hes more effective the closer to the line of scrimmage he is. plus his attack mentality is perfectly suited at linebacker.

infantrycak
02-27-2005, 10:12 AM
i just get the feeling if faggins is on the field quarterbacks make a special note of where he is and favor the wrs hes covering. our 1st 3 cornerbacks are all about 5'9 or smaller and it becomes an apparent disadvantage everytime we're in the redzone. how many times has drew bennet killed us?

I am not sure about Faggins ever being a starting CB, but IMO he does a good job coming in as he does presently. No matter who you have on the field teams will pick on someone--it doesn't mean they are bad just they aren't as good as the other players. On the size issue, it seems to me you need at least two pieces of information to find a mismatch--height and vertical leap ability. A WR being 6 inches taller really doesn't count for much if the CB has an ability to jump a foot higher--that is part of what makes AJ a freak because he is tall with a fantastic 41"+ vertical leap. Fact is most of the time WR's don't use their height as is suggested by the we need a tall CB argument. WR's generally jump not to get a ball hung up 10 feet in the air, they jump to catch one at chest level that otherwise would have been at full arm extension from the ground--passes like that are well within the defending range of 5' 9" CB's. And the answer on Drew Bennett is 2 TD's in 6 games.

threetoedpete
02-27-2005, 11:47 AM
There are an awefull lot of guys I read and enjoy in here. I thank God every cap season that A.J. loves to keep up with that bull dung. I enjoy your posts Powda there certainly a lot more thought out and organized then mine.

threetoedpete
02-27-2005, 12:01 PM
Look when I throw stuff in here I don't just throw it out there. I've seen D.J. live a lot. Sat there at the games and watch him and nothing else exclusively. I just think he would have less of a transition, and be more comfortable starting the first year as a DB. Then if you want to drop him down in long situations, why not ? 3-4 is supposed to be an attacking d isn't it ? And the main guy we need to attack only gets rattled through pressure right up the middle. Just makes sence to me is all. There is going to be a growing period with DJ playing the run on this level. That's all I'm saying.

Agreed Infatry. Faggins is not killing us. He's cap freindly and holds his own. Faggins will be a whole lot better with a little more push from the front seven. Be nice to go out and sign the Ty Laws and Fred Smoots of the NFL world. Get into cap trouble like that real quick.
I also Like McCree.

ComstockLode
02-27-2005, 12:14 PM
While DJ certainly has a good chance of making a great 3-4 ILB he certainly might make a great SS as well. Look at Michael Boulware last year. 5lbs lighter than DJ and ended up changing positions and having a better year than Sean Taylor. DJ has much more experience dropping into coverage than pass rushing--and by that I mean specifically as Casserly refers to it as the distinction between pass rushing and blitzing. He undoubtedly will be tried at LB first in the NFL and most likely succeed there but converting him to SS or playing him in a cover 2 very light & fast LB mode might be his biggest impact spots. Sure would like to see his coverage skills at Foreman's spot--he can't be much worse at the point of attack.

DJ is a derrick brooks type linebacker, having that kind of athletic ability moved to SS is a waste. At linebacker he will be an impact on every play. The scrambling QB's, who have become a trend of late wont be able to go anywhere much the same way tampa is able to stop them with brooks.

powda
02-27-2005, 05:29 PM
dj is the best linebacker to comeout in years and i dont see the point in moving him to another postion. kinda like how the cardinals selected the best left tackle in the draft a few years ago (williams?) and then moved him to right tackle (same can be said for gallery). its squandered talent and athleticism. i wont argue dj couldnt do it. what i will argue is the learning curve would be much worse. dj has the talent to be a pro bowl player at a postion he already knows. when the ball is snapped i want him as close to the ball/quarterback/runningback as possible. i think you get more production out of his talent that way. i dont want my best defensive playmaker 20 yards from the line of scrimmage especially if i have the option to keep him closer at his natural postion. but hey, thats just my opinion.

infantry i agree with you about leaping ability neutralizing a height advantage ,but consider bennett is 6'5 and faggins is (i was mistaken...texans.com has him listed at...) 5'10. thats a 7 inch diffrence...and i seriously doubt faggins' verticle is that much better then bennett. we havent even considered how rangey bennett is and the length of his arms vs faggins ( :D ). i know im going on about miniscule things now but my point is...if you have 1 cornerback in coverage and 1 reciever on a route...and the matchup is bennett vs faggins...i'll put my money on bennett every time.

for the record bennett's carrer #s vs the texans are:

19 receptions 284 yards 2 touchdowns and a 14.9 average. (thats 5 games by the way rather then 6)

in 2004 when the numbers are more relevant because faggins was on the field in our nickle package :

10 receptions 113 yards and 1 td.

probably im just determined to think im right...but i do think we have a better team if we have a quality young talent in our nickle package rather than faggins. as i said, we're 1 injury away from having faggins as our starter.......and i for one am not comfortable with that at all.

and by the way, isnt faggins a restricted free agent? he's not going to be as cap friendly as he has been. (for the record im an advocate of drafting a cb instead of signing a high priced free agent...)

Erratic Assassin
02-28-2005, 08:25 AM
If our go to guys aren't there at #13, I think we should trade down in the first round and get a center. Sounds like that's a strong point in this draft. Then we can have two second rounders to play with. That should make up for only having two first day picks last year. Not saying that was a bad thing. I thought it worked in the end.

Yeah, but how does that make our defense any better?

We need guys who can stop the run and put pressure on the QB or we are going nowhere next year.

Our first 2 drafts were all offense. Our third draft was all defense. I'd be willing to bet that we use all of our draft picks on defense (as we should) to even out the talent on both sides of the ball.