PDA

View Full Version : Schaub


Pages : [1] 2

Fox
10-18-2009, 09:01 PM
Leads the league with 14 passing TD's (Breesus is 2nd with 13), and is second in passing yards with 1810 (Big Ben has 1887).

Just for fun, on his current pace he'd finish the season with: 37 TD's, 4827 yards.

He's certainly struggled at times, but one might say he's playing pretty well ;). It'd be nice if he could completely eliminate those pics (especially the pick 6's), but when we're asking him to put the offense on his shoulders and throw it 40 times per game it's just unrealistic at the point, IMO, to expect him to play completely error free.

TheRealJoker
10-18-2009, 09:09 PM
If only we had a franchise QB...

Schaub is our guy, whether you like it or not. He's not the prettiest, but he gets the job done.

infantrycak
10-18-2009, 09:14 PM
He sucks, we need to cut him and get a real QB.

m5kwatts
10-18-2009, 09:18 PM
He's a top 5 QB

Mailman
10-18-2009, 09:19 PM
He sucks, we need to cut him and get a real QB.

Sadly, there are people who still believe this crap. He is not the field general like a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, he's not the tough mfer like a Roethlisberger, and he doesn't have the gun of a Jay Cutler or Brett Favre, but the guy can play quarterback at a very high level.

Big Lou
10-18-2009, 09:19 PM
He sucks, we need to cut him and get a real QB.

I agree he sucks. When the Raiders cut Russel we should pick him up!!!!!!!

GP
10-18-2009, 09:20 PM
If the guy can avoid getting injured.

He seems to have developed a better plan for ejecting from dangerous situations. And we see a lot less tucking it and running with it.

And Fat Albert is in the NFC now. That's a good deal for any Texans QB.

was385
10-18-2009, 09:36 PM
I agree he sucks. When the Raiders cut Russel we should pick him up!!!!!!!


What are you talking about? That arm, that size, that mobility! In Al Davis' eyes, he's the best thing to happen to football since the forward pass (and he should know, he was there).

HJam72
10-18-2009, 09:41 PM
Can we still get Vince? :mcnugget:

stingray
10-18-2009, 09:41 PM
I think most of the "reasonable" posters have said that he is a very good QB as long as he stays healthy for a whole year. That has been my take.

V3rm0nt3r
10-18-2009, 09:42 PM
Schaub AJ OD and Cush are mediocre-good. none of them have really proved to be elite players and none of them look like they can start many other places than Houston.:cool:

SteveSlaton20
10-18-2009, 09:43 PM
yes, but can he avoid getting hurt?

BrandonLwowski
10-18-2009, 09:43 PM
He is not the best qb in the nfl don't get me wrong..but he is pretty dam good...last week he made a couple bad throws..and today one pick but other than that i am happy with his production...most tds right now in the nfl...2nd in yards...i think he is having a solid year

Texecutioner
10-18-2009, 09:46 PM
I wasn't a believer in Schaub really. I thought he had potential and all, but he's completely won me over. Schaub has been great this season. He may not be the most accurate passer all of the time, but I'll take his production any day of the week.

I thought about this earlier and this is the first season the Texans have ever had where we've had good QB play. It's been fun to watch and finally have that going for us.

Fox
10-18-2009, 09:50 PM
I think if he starts making the plays a la Dreessen open in the end zone at the end of the AZ game and sealing close wins for us his reputation will catch up to his production.

gtexan02
10-18-2009, 09:51 PM
I think its funny when people get upset that he threw a pick. He had 4 TDs. Any QB would kill for a 4:1 TD/Int ratio

NitroGSXR
10-18-2009, 09:54 PM
I wasn't a believer in Schaub really. I thought he had potential and all, but he's completely won me over. Schaub has been great this season. He may not be the most accurate passer all of the time, but I'll take his production any day of the week.

I thought about this earlier and this is the first season the Texans have ever had where we've had good QB play. It's been fun to watch and finally have that going for us.

Give Schaub a decent interior line and imagine the possibilities. I'm beginning to believe that Meyers has to go. I've not been on the Meyers must go bandwagon but I'm jumping on after today. I thought I kept seeing Meyers block the same defender as whoever is on his side. Like Meyers and White or Studdard gang up on somebody while Studdard or White was left to fend for himself blocking two. Schaub kept rolling out because of a guy pursuing him. Too many times I saw somebody come inside untouched. Schaub is one smart QB who lets the ball sail from him sometimes. I love Matt Schaub and I'm happy he's a Houston Texan. Always have been happy about that.

I'm going to rewatch the game in just a few minutes and I'll keep my eyes on that interior line to confirm my suspicions.

ObsiWan
10-18-2009, 09:56 PM
Sadly, there are people who still believe this crap. He is not the field general like a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, he's not the tough mfer like a Roethlisberger, and he doesn't have the gun of a Jay Cutler or Brett Favre, but the guy can play quarterback at a very high level.
But aren't those are the things we need for our QB to take us to the next level??

Maybe he'll develop the field general thing in time; i.e., improve his decision-making. But the other "gifts", probably not gonna happen. One has to be born with a "gun" and either be blessed with natural toughness or be surrounded by fabulous pass protection (see Brees or P.Manning). Maybe we will work on that pass protection thing.

I don't hate Schaub. He's obviously way better than what we had. And he surely had enough to get us out of the rut we were in with HWWNBN, I just wonder if he has "enough" to get us into saaaay the AFC championship game?

Mr teX
10-18-2009, 09:57 PM
THis is the reason we can't get rid of Kubes, even if we go 8-8 again. I think a big part of why he's doing so well is b/c he and the offense are finally comfortable with the system. As long as he has time, he's as good as any qb in the league.

ChampionTexan
10-18-2009, 10:03 PM
He's got decision making issues that need to improve, but I genuinely believe he's more than capable of being the starting QB on a successful NFL team. The other thing that hasn't been mentioned is that he's still got upside, and he's still developing. I think it's easy to forget that between the time backing up Vick, and the games missed due to injury, he still doesn't have the equivalent of two starting seasons. Say what you want, but it's reasonable to expect continued growth from him.

TexCanada
10-18-2009, 10:16 PM
QB's better then Schaub:

The Mannings, Brees, Roethlisberger, Brady, Ryan, Mcnabb, maybe Cutler and Rivers. Anyone else(I might have missed someone obvious)? Favre and Warner are old and will be done in a year or two. I think this puts Schaub pretty close to the top ten, alongside the likes of Palmer, Rodgers and maybe Flacco. Schaub has put up bigger numbers then a lot of these other guys, and if he keeps it up I think he can pass a few of them.

I don't see why so many people want to get someone besides Schaub in there. Drafting a QB who will be in the top 10 in the league is extremely difficult, and we would have to give up something big to move far enough up in the draft to get that guy. I think I would much rather stick with Schaub, and not give up any of our current personel to get a high pick. Just my humble opinion.

GuerillaBlack
10-18-2009, 11:04 PM
The only reason why Brees doesn't have the most TDs is because the Saints have already had their bye week. Still, Schaub is a pretty damn good QB. As long as he stays healthy.

Goatcheese
10-18-2009, 11:39 PM
Schaub is adequate until we can get Vince Young in here. Then this offense will be unstoppable! :wild:

steelbtexan
10-18-2009, 11:44 PM
Schaub is adequate until we can get Vince Young in here. Then this offense will be unstoppable! :wild:

VY the snowman looked awsome today.

CTWade
10-18-2009, 11:47 PM
He sucks, we need to cut him and get a real QB.

I want a Schaub jersey. Gimme yours.

Lucky
10-18-2009, 11:51 PM
THis is the reason we can't get rid of Kubes, even if we go 8-8 again...
That's not a good enough reason. If Schaub can only perform under Kubiak, he's not really talented enough to win at the highest level. Tom Brady was still Tom Brady after Charlie Weis left New England. Drew Brees was still Drew Brees when he moved from San Diego to New Orleans. If Matt Schaub is a winner, he can win with a coach other than Gary Kubiak.

silvrhand
10-18-2009, 11:56 PM
I'll eat some crow this week and say he had a good game, can't deny it. I still don't like him, he doesn't MAKE me believe he's the QB of the future for us to take us into the playoffs.

Texecutioner
10-19-2009, 12:26 AM
That's not a good enough reason. If Schaub can only perform under Kubiak, he's not really talented enough to win at the highest level. Tom Brady was still Tom Brady after Charlie Weis left New England. Drew Brees was still Drew Brees when he moved from San Diego to New Orleans. If Matt Schaub is a winner, he can win with a coach other than Gary Kubiak.

Exactly. That's like saying Kubiak is the only reason why Schaub is any good. Kubes certainly wasn't able to make Carr or Sage a good QB. Schaub is a good QB and his chemistry with Kubes is obviously good.

I've been hearing a lot of people saying things like Schaub isn't that guy that can take us this far or that far, or that Schaub just doesn't have that "it" factor. Here is the thing though. Schaub is a good QB and if given decent protection, he can be very very good. We know that now. And any QB can be a QB of a team that goes to the AFC championship if Rex Grossman, Brad Johnson, and Trent Dilfer have been in one already. Now those guys were all on historical defenses, but a team going to the AFC championship game shouldn't be all on the QB any way. Teams go far in the playoffs because they are really good teams. Every team is not going to be built off of what the QB can or cannot do as far as "carrying" the team. Every team doesn't have to be successful off of riding the shoulders of a great QB. Schaub is easily shown that he is good enough to be a winning QB that could be a QB on a Sb team for sure with the amount of points we have put up this season from game to game. And you have to remember that Schaub's having this great season without a running game to help him at all.

We have a guy that can take us very far. That's no question anymore. The new question now is simply if Kubiak and Smith can build up a successful enough team around Schaub at this point. The next 10 weeks should answer that question.

Kaiser Toro
10-19-2009, 02:31 AM
Schaub is a looser, or so I have read on this board. When he is not being illegally hit or dancing on sideline astroturf he is a perfect fit for this offense and one of the best at his trade.

Mailman
10-19-2009, 02:54 AM
Schaub is a looser, or so I have read on this board.

It's a mute point by now.

DocBar
10-19-2009, 03:56 AM
I'll eat some crow this week and say he had a good game, can't deny it. I still don't like him, he doesn't MAKE me believe he's the QB of the future for us to take us into the playoffs.Fortunately, he doesn't need to impress us. His teammates seem to believe in him and look to him for leadership. He may not be the most animated, demonstrative sort or have that "eye of the tiger" look about him in crunch time, but he is producing at a very high level. Look at the job he's doing with a makeshift interior line and no running game to speak of. We haven't lost 3 games because of Schaub, but we have won 3 on his arm.

Kal
10-19-2009, 05:02 AM
There are times I watch Schaub and am completely impressed by him, sold on his talents and his ability to lead the Texans. What, imo, will always stop him being one of the elite or very, very good quarterbacks in the league is that he's inconsistent. He'll have bad games for no reason and I wonder whether he's mentally tough enough to be an elite QB. If that makes sense.

Still worse teams have won games with a worse QB and I don't think Schaub is that inconsistent that he'll Jake Delhomme this team.

BigBull17
10-19-2009, 07:35 AM
QB's better then Schaub:

The Mannings, Brees, Roethlisberger, Brady, Ryan, Mcnabb, maybe Cutler and Rivers. Anyone else(I might have missed someone obvious)? Favre and Warner are old and will be done in a year or two. I think this puts Schaub pretty close to the top ten, alongside the likes of Palmer, Rodgers and maybe Flacco. Schaub has put up bigger numbers then a lot of these other guys, and if he keeps it up I think he can pass a few of them.

I don't see why so many people want to get someone besides Schaub in there. Drafting a QB who will be in the top 10 in the league is extremely difficult, and we would have to give up something big to move far enough up in the draft to get that guy. I think I would much rather stick with Schaub, and not give up any of our current personel to get a high pick. Just my humble opinion.

Cutler makes way too many mistakes to be in that top tier. He is in the second one. Same with Big Ben. It's a litttle to early on Ryan, but he's is close. The top tier is Peyton, Brees, McNabb kind of, Brady, and Rivers and Eli on the very outside.

NitroGSXR
10-19-2009, 07:41 AM
Cutler makes way too many mistakes to be in that top tier. He is in the second one. Same with Big Ben. It's a litttle to early on Ryan, but he's is close. The top tier is Peyton, Brees, McNabb kind of, Brady, and Rivers and Eli on the very outside.

Lol. Give me a Ben Roethlisberger ANYDAY! He's a top tier QB. He is the best 4th quarter QB the NFL has had for a LONG time.

gtexan02
10-19-2009, 07:43 AM
I think a LOT of you have forgotten what its like to be a football fan. Not every QB is going to put up 300+ yards passing and 3TDs with no interceptions every single week.

Players are allowed to have bad games here and there. Peyton has them and no one ever calls him inconsistent. Brady has them and no one ever calls him inconsistent.

Sure, Schaubs not a first ballot HOFer like those guys, but to call him inconsistent or innaccurate or a bad decision maker because he had one off target pass picked off is just insane to me.

Schaub has 14 TDs and 5 INTs this season. If he can keep a ~3:1 TD/Int ratio that will be by far the best we've ever had.

Manning is currently at 12 TDs/4 INTs (3:1), Roethlisberger is 10:6, and Cutler is 9/7

HoustonFrog
10-19-2009, 08:10 AM
Lol. Give me a Ben Roethlisberger ANYDAY! He's a top tier QB. He is the best 4th quarter QB the NFL has had for a LONG time.

Agree. Ben is awesome and plays big when he has to and puts up stats when he needs to. and is tough.

As for Schaub, I'm glad I stuck for this guy during the Sage debates. You can see that when given the chance he can pick teams apart.

prostock101
10-19-2009, 08:37 AM
I rarely post here anymore but I felt the need to jump in here.

A lot of coaches in this league really admire Kubiak's offense and try to duplicate it. They even mentioned during the game that the Bengals coach spent a lot of time during the offseason studying it/stealing it. When it comes to X's and O's, he is one of the best in the league.

Schaub is easily a top ten QB. Try putting the Manning's or Brady behind Kasey "On his back like a turtle" Studdard and Chris "I've fallen and I can't get up!" Myers and see if they can throw for 400 yds and 4 TD's.

Goatcheese
10-19-2009, 08:42 AM
Schaub's biggest improvement this year is that he isn't fumbling every time he gets hit. Too bad it seems to have transfered to Slaton. :rake:

gtexan02
10-19-2009, 09:23 AM
Imo schaubs biggest downfall is his ability to make things happen while on the run.

Once he breaks the pocket, he seems to be horrible. He either scrambles for a 2-4 yard gain or throws it away.

TimeKiller
10-19-2009, 09:54 AM
My top tier: PManning, Brady, Brees, Rivers
2nd tier: Roethlisberger, EManning, Cutler, McNabb, Schaub, Palmer, Warner, Favre
3rd tier: Garrard, Collins, Hasselbeck, Orton

HoustonFrog
10-19-2009, 10:00 AM
My top tier: PManning, Brady, Brees, Rivers
2nd tier: Roethlisberger, EManning, Cutler, McNabb, Schaub, Palmer, Warner, Favre
3rd tier: Garrard, Collins, Hasselbeck, Orton

I'm not sure how Rivers is above Roethlisberger. Ben is putting up better numbers and has 2 SBs. Ben is #1 in passer rating and stats and Rivers 14th in passer rating.

HOU-TEX
10-19-2009, 10:01 AM
The only reason why Brees doesn't have the most TDs is because the Saints have already had their bye week. Still, Schaub is a pretty damn good QB. As long as he stays healthy.

Plus, Brees actually has a good running game so far this year. He doesn't always have to be the one to carry his offense.

When (or if) we get our running game back, Schaub won't be throwing 40-50 times a game.

dalemurphy
10-19-2009, 10:04 AM
I'm not sure how Rivers is above Roethlisberger. Ben is putting up better numbers and has 2 SBs. Ben is #1 in passer rating and stats and Rivers 14th in passer rating.

Ben is a very good QB. I don't mean this to be a criticism. But, there are a lot of QBs that would have won a superbowl with the defense that team put on the field last year.

infantrycak
10-19-2009, 10:05 AM
I think a LOT of you have forgotten what its like to be a football fan. Not every QB is going to put up 300+ yards passing and 3TDs with no interceptions every single week.

Players are allowed to have bad games here and there. Peyton has them and no one ever calls him inconsistent. Brady has them and no one ever calls him inconsistent.

Sure, Schaubs not a first ballot HOFer like those guys, but to call him inconsistent or innaccurate or a bad decision maker because he had one off target pass picked off is just insane to me.

Schaub has 14 TDs and 5 INTs this season. If he can keep a ~3:1 TD/Int ratio that will be by far the best we've ever had.

Manning is currently at 12 TDs/4 INTs (3:1), Roethlisberger is 10:6, and Cutler is 9/7

What he said. It is simply amazing. I don't get Houston fans. If this same standard was applied HWWNBN would have been run out of town after his rookie year. Now we require perfection? Dude has 24 passes over 20 yards and 6 over 40 yards. WTF?

Imo schaubs biggest downfall is his ability to make things happen while on the run.

Once he breaks the pocket, he seems to be horrible. He either scrambles for a 2-4 yard gain or throws it away.

I will disagree here. Watch the coverage down field. You already have one break down generally that is making him scramble. Then see if he is missing an open receiver. Granted he ain't Michael Vick but throwing the ball away and not taking a sack is a strength.

HoustonFrog
10-19-2009, 10:11 AM
Ben is a very good QB. I don't mean this to be a criticism. But, there are a lot of QBs that would have won a superbowl with the defense that team put on the field last year.

I'm not sure of that. That is really easy to say but it looks much easier than it seems. Their O-line has always been off and on and their running game with injuries to Fast Willie and Mendenhall was having trouble. Roethlisberger has a really nice feel in the pocket and slides away and fights off alot of pressure that many other QBs wouldn't be able to. Maybe you can chalk up one SB to a Dilfer like team but not 2. He is a leader, is great in the pocket, can move for a big man and has produced despite the O-line and RBs being banged up over the years. I never buy that, "stick anyone else in there argument." It makes no sense when you watch their games and how he gets out of trouble and makes plays.

dalemurphy
10-19-2009, 10:19 AM
Schaub is ranked in the top10 in almost every relavent category. Here are some of his stats so far:

QBrating: 102.7
comp%: 65.3
YPG : 301.7
YPA : 8.3
TD/INt: 14/5
Sacks: 10

He clearly had a poor game against NYJets and I thought he didn't play particularly well against Arizona either. He consistently has completed a very high percentage of his passes for a high YPA in his career with us. That bodes extremely well, particularly for a guy that is now taking care of the ball and not taking losses. If he continues to play at this level, he is undeniably an elite NFL QB and the wins will definitely begin adding up.

dalemurphy
10-19-2009, 10:23 AM
I'm not sure of that. That is really easy to say but it looks much easier than it seems. Their O-line has always been off and on and their running game with injuries to Fast Willie and Mendenhall was having trouble. Roethlisberger has a really nice feel in the pocket and slides away and fights off alot of pressure than many other QBs wouldn't be able to. Maybe you can chalk up one SB to a Dilfer like team but not 2. He is a leader, is great in the pocket, can move for a big man and has produced despite the O-line and RBs being banged up over the years. I never buy that, "stick anyone else in there argument." It makes no sense when you watch their games and how he gets out of trouble and makes plays.

He definitely has special skills. I agree. However, I think there are a number of rhythm passers that could get rid of the ball on time, not take the sacks, take care of the ball, make enough plays, and lead last year's team to a Superbowl... I don't mean to suggest that anyone could do it. But, I would expect a guy like Phillip Rivers to be able to win with that defense, or Drew Brees... among a collection of others. After all, look what Kerry Collins was able to do in Tennessee last year with that defense. He simply was asked to not turn the ball over, hand off, and let Bironas kick field goals: they went 13-3... But no, I'm not saying Kerry Collins = Ben Rothlisburger.

HoustonFrog
10-19-2009, 10:29 AM
He definitely has special skills. I agree. However, I think there are a number of rhythm passers that could get rid of the ball on time, not take the sacks, take care of the ball, make enough plays, and lead last year's team to a Superbowl... I don't mean to suggest that anyone could do it. But, I would expect a guy like Phillip Rivers to be able to win with that defense, or Drew Brees... among a collection of others. After all, look what Kerry Collins was able to do in Tennessee last year with that defense. He simply was asked to not turn the ball over, hand off, and let Bironas kick field goals: they went 13-3... But no, I'm not saying Kerry Collins = Ben Rothlisburger.

My problem with the Rivers comparison was that he had a D like Pitts and a RB still in his prime and couldn't do it with SD. Just saying. I think this year and last when he was having to carry the load with the RBs down, showed that he is on that Tier 1 and not behind a guy like Rivers, who really hasn't done that much with pretty nice talent.

GuerillaBlack
10-19-2009, 10:30 AM
Cutler makes way too many mistakes to be in that top tier. He is in the second one. Same with Big Ben. It's a litttle to early on Ryan, but he's is close. The top tier is Peyton, Brees, McNabb kind of, Brady, and Rivers and Eli on the very outside.

They were calling Matt Ryan the young Peyton Manning last night. Not completely sold on that right now, but he's definitely good.

dalemurphy
10-19-2009, 10:32 AM
My problem with the Rivers comparison was that he had a D like Pitts and a RB still in his prime and couldn't do it with SD. Just saying. I think this year and last when he was having to carry the load with the RBs down, showed that he is on that Tier 1 and not behind a guy like Rivers, who really hasn't done that much with pretty nice talent.

Nobody in this era of football has had a defense like Pittsburgh last season, other than the Baltimore team of 2000.

HoustonFrog
10-19-2009, 10:38 AM
Nobody in this era of football has had a defense like Pittsburgh last season, other than the Baltimore team of 2000.

Rivers had a Top 10 D for pts..#7 and yards, #10. They had playmakers. They had a 14-2 team, they were #1 in points that year, had a ton of weapons. He couldn't get it done. I'm sorry, again, the whole plug the guy in doesn't work. Ben fits Pitt with his toughness and what he does in the pocket. They were struggling at times last year with the line and backs. The guy guts out wins and gets them in position. I'm not sure how Rivers, who has done nothing with good teams is on a top tier while Roethlisberger, who is leading the lead and has 2 rings is 2nd tier. The last drive in the SB..who won that after the D gave up a play to lose the lead?

TexCanada
10-19-2009, 11:17 AM
I think all this arguing shows that Schaub is in the 2nd tier of QB's in this league, with somewhere around 5-10 guys considered better then him. So unless we fall into an oppurtunity to get an elite QB, all this talk about keeping or not keeping Schaub is pointless. Schaub is a great QB and the only way we could get someone better would be by giving up a couple of our better players. Sticking with Schaub is definately this teams best option.

badboy
10-19-2009, 11:29 AM
Who was it that told me I'd be starting by now? signed Rex Grossman

beerlover
10-19-2009, 11:35 AM
Watch the coverage down field. You already have one break down generally that is making him scramble. Then see if he is missing an open receiver. Granted he ain't Michael Vick but throwing the ball away and not taking a sack is a strength.

I like the fact he is stepping up in the pocket more or that there is a pocket to step up into :butterfly:

AnthonyE
10-19-2009, 11:37 AM
I think all this arguing shows that Schaub is in the 2nd tier of QB's in this league, with somewhere around 5-10 guys considered better then him. So unless we fall into an oppurtunity to get an elite QB, all this talk about keeping or not keeping Schaub is pointless. Schaub is a great QB and the only way we could get someone better would be by giving up a couple of our better players. Sticking with Schaub is definately this teams best option.

QFT definitely. Rep to you.

4Texans
10-19-2009, 01:14 PM
So the real question will be, do the Texan go ahead and let the escalator bonus kick in on his contract after the season's over if he maintains his play??????????

That's probably for a thread of it's own.

Texecutioner
10-19-2009, 01:23 PM
My top tier: PManning, Brady, Brees, Rivers
2nd tier: Roethlisberger, EManning, Cutler, McNabb, Schaub, Palmer, Warner, Favre
3rd tier: Garrard, Collins, Hasselbeck, Orton

Did you somehow forget about Aaron Rodgers or something? He's easily in that 2nd tier towards the top of it actually.

I'd also put Big Ben in the first tier right behind Brees and right above Rivers. Big Ben has been pretty amazing.

I agree that this season Schaub is easily in the 2nd tier which is a very good thing.

Thorn
10-19-2009, 02:10 PM
As a bona fide member of the original Schaub Haters Club, I haven't yet thrown away my membership card, I just don't carry it around any more. Let's revisit this subject later in the season, shall we?

If Schaub stays upright most of the season and continues to be as impressive as he's been so far, I'll burn my Schaub Haters Club membership card in front of everyone and admit the error of my ways.

And yes, he's looking damn good right now. Very Damn Good as a matter of fact.

Malloy
10-19-2009, 02:17 PM
IMO Schaub is doing VERY well despite a less than stellar running game.

My biggest 'problem' with him right now are his underthrown passes. They're also the reason for at least two of his INTs this year.

Anywho, all in all I'm very happy that we have Schaub at the helm, we're in good hands :)

Texecutioner
10-19-2009, 02:20 PM
As a bona fide member of the original Schaub Haters Club, I haven't yet thrown away my membership card, I just don't carry it around any more. Let's revisit this subject later in the season, shall we?

If Schaub stays upright most of the season and continues to be as impressive as he's been so far, I'll burn my Schaub Haters Club membership card in front of everyone and admit the error of my ways.

And yes, he's looking damn good right now. Very Damn Good as a matter of fact.

I've burnt mine finally. He's shown me that he can be a very good QB if he has time to throw. Granted he does have some great weapons and all which makes it easier for him than it does for other QB's that are playing at a high level right now, but Schaub is picking teams apart right now. He reminds me a little bit of Kurt Warner, but he just doesn't have as good of an arm as Warner. He's shown that he can be a great pocket passer like Warner though.

TheRealJoker
10-19-2009, 02:21 PM
Schaub's most impressive throw last week imo was his td to JJ. Not because it was a "perfect" throw by any means but because he rolled out to his left just like last week when he missed the wipe open pass to Dreesen at the goal line but this time he took that split second to turn his shoulders, plant his feet and throw the ball instead of throwing while running which led to an accurate pass and a td for the Texans :)

Shows our QB can correct his mistakes from week to week.

TimeKiller
10-19-2009, 02:44 PM
Did you somehow forget about Aaron Rodgers or something? He's easily in that 2nd tier towards the top of it actually.


Ummm....yes, yes I did.

Big Ben gets a little more hype for his teams accomplishments than I'm willing to recognize.

Texecutioner
10-19-2009, 02:46 PM
Ummm....yes, yes I did.

Big Ben gets a little more hype for his teams accomplishments than I'm willing to recognize.

I figured that you probably just forgot about him. Aaron Rodgers has been freaking great this year in his 2nd season as a starter. I didn't realize what a cannon he had last season either. He's one of my favorite QB's to watch in the NFL now.

BigBull17
10-19-2009, 02:58 PM
They were calling Matt Ryan the young Peyton Manning last night. Not completely sold on that right now, but he's definitely good.

Yeah. As I said, the kids good, but slow down a little bit when calling him a young version of the best qb to play the game.

76Texan
10-19-2009, 03:37 PM
So far, Schaub has made fewer mistakes this year in his read (but not a big improvement), and he has taken care of the ball better.
These two factors combined has made him a better QB, one that has me considering him to join the top ten in the league.

Remember though, a lot of his yards in this game were due to YAC of the receivers and Slaton, and the blocking in space of our blockers.
And the Bengals played most of their game short of many starters on Defense.
Also, there were mistakes by the secondary that sprang a receiver wide-open in Schaub's line of sight.

TexCanada
10-19-2009, 04:04 PM
Remember though, a lot of his yards in this game were due to YAC of the receivers and Slaton, and the blocking in space of our blockers.
And the Bengals played most of their game short of many starters on Defense.
Also, there were mistakes by the secondary that sprang a receiver wide-open in Schaub's line of sight.

I've never heard of a great QB who didn't get help from the rest of his team. Also, part of being a great QB is capitalizing when the defense makes mistakes.

dalemurphy
10-19-2009, 04:13 PM
So far, Schaub has made fewer mistakes this year in his read (but not a big improvement), and he has taken care of the ball better.
These two factors combined has made him a better QB, one that has me considering him to join the top ten in the league.

Remember though, a lot of his yards in this game were due to YAC of the receivers and Slaton, and the blocking in space of our blockers.
And the Bengals played most of their game short of many starters on Defense.
Also, there were mistakes by the secondary that sprang a receiver wide-open in Schaub's line of sight.


Everyone is wetting themselves over Tom Brady's performance yesterday. If you want to talk about busted assignments and YAC yards impacting statistics, that would be a better example... My point is those things happen when a guy throws for 4 TDs and 400 yards.

TheRealJoker
10-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Everyone is wetting themselves over Tom Brady's performance yesterday. If you want to talk about busted assignments and YAC yards impacting statistics, that would be a better example... My point is those things happen when a guy throws for 4 TDs and 400 yards.

+ 1. If the people who caught the ball just went down immediately we'd be seeing a whole lot less 300+ yard performances around the league. Come to think of it, I cant remember a 300+ yard passing performance without significant contributions in the YAC department.

davemundy
10-19-2009, 04:27 PM
Schaub AJ OD and Cush are mediocre-good. none of them have really proved to be elite players and none of them look like they can start many other places than Houston.:cool:

I'm willing to bet any of them could start in Vermont. Do they even play football in Vermont?

Right now folks, there is no offense hotter than Houston's.

HOU-TEX
10-19-2009, 04:29 PM
I'm willing to bet any of them could start in Vermont. Do they even play football in Vermont?

Right now folks, there is no offense hotter than Houston's.

That's bullbutter!

Signed,

The New Orleans Saints

P.S. We can run the ball too!

76Texan
10-19-2009, 04:59 PM
I've never heard of a great QB who didn't get help from the rest of his team. Also, part of being a great QB is capitalizing when the defense makes mistakes.

This is circular argument.

Best thing for those who think Schaub is already a GREAT QB is to define the criteria of being great.

Then bring the proofs to show that Schaub has achieved those criteria!

NOTE: I was among the very fews on the old TT Board who thought Schaub fit with the scheme here and wanted to trade for him even before any trade talk ever surfaced. So don't put me down as a Schaub hater, K!

(Even though I thought the price was high when the trade did materialize!)

Fox
10-19-2009, 05:12 PM
Imo schaubs biggest downfall is his ability to make things happen while on the run.

Once he breaks the pocket, he seems to be horrible. He either scrambles for a 2-4 yard gain or throws it away.

I agree with this part in one sense. I think Schaub isn't a very good improviser. Give him time to go through his reads and everything's good, but once the protection breaks down and he leaves the pocket you can pretty well call it an incomplete pass every time as he almost always hucks it out of bounds.... which is what he should do IMO. A guy with his skill set isn't gonna be able to do the things Big Ben does, it plays to his strengths to recognize that, as he has, and get rid of the ball without throwing a pick or taking a sack.

On the other hand, don't mistake him for a QB who can't throw on the run (not saying you are). Some of his best plays come off of boot legs and designed roll outs where he's throwing on the move. The key is that in these situations he's playing within the confines of the play.

infantrycak
10-19-2009, 07:31 PM
This is circular argument.

Best thing for those who think Schaub is already a GREAT QB is to define the criteria of being great.

How about you give a definition? On its face the ability to huck up 350+ yards in any given game along with a 7 TD to 2 INT ratio in the last two, loving the middle of the field, not relying solely on the superstar WR, leading the league in TD's oh and an ability to put his team in a position to win with 4th quarter drives. I'm trying to figure out what definition has him as not a top tier QB.

threeputtsam
10-19-2009, 08:41 PM
Schaub - he's much better than Carr. I thought this last game was the best he's looked because he was able to step into his passes. Schaub does not have a strong arm and when he throws off his back foot, the ball floats and is an interception waiting to happen. Schaub will do good as long as the line protects him - he doesen't extend plays well and he doesen't know how to take a hit.

Manning/Brady/Brees/Rothlesberger/Rivers/McNabb/Warner/Palmer/Ryan/Flacco/Romo > Schaub> most of the rest

Even if you don't agree with all of these, at least 8 are better than Schaub. i would say Schaub is a slightly above average QB. He's good enough to get the Texans to the playoffs, but he's not an elite qb.

Trent Dilfer won a super bowl so I guess anything is possible.

GuerillaBlack
10-19-2009, 08:43 PM
So far, Schaub has made fewer mistakes this year in his read (but not a big improvement), and he has taken care of the ball better.
These two factors combined has made him a better QB, one that has me considering him to join the top ten in the league.

Remember though, a lot of his yards in this game were due to YAC of the receivers and Slaton, and the blocking in space of our blockers.
And the Bengals played most of their game short of many starters on Defense.
Also, there were mistakes by the secondary that sprang a receiver wide-open in Schaub's line of sight.

...and?

Schaub is definitely a Top 10 QB.

junior
10-19-2009, 09:16 PM
My biggest problem with Schaub is his accuracy, meaning where he places the ball with a crossing WR or when he is on the run, he has better accuracy on deep balls.

The thing that scares the hell out of me is his arm on out routes, I really have never seen a QB throw such a weak out route before. He has so much arc on those routes, that should be on a line, we were one dropped pick 6 from fighting for our lives on Cincys last drive. So the thing he needs to work on is his timing of those throws, getting rid of the ball sooner.

If we can not get the running game going and he has to throw the ball 40 times that is when he most likely to get picked because the DBs start sitting on routes after a while.

infantrycak
10-19-2009, 09:38 PM
Two points.

(1) watch the next couple weeks specifically for this - find how many QB's see the middle of the field better? Sure some of it is contrast from HWWNBN but Schaub uses the entire field.

(2) watch how many QB's live and die on their number one WR. Schaub doesn't. Yes he takes advantage of having future hall of famer AJ on the field, but he distributes the ball rather than relying on a crutch to make himself look better, i.e. every ball going to AJ or DD. OD was in the pro-bowl because of Schaub, not in spite of him - with all due credit to OD as well.

Killer Bee
10-19-2009, 10:19 PM
I agree with Junior, Schaub throwing the deep out scares the heck out of me. It’s very difficult throw to make and his timing needs to be impeccable due to his arm strength. He almost threw another pick 6 against the Bengals. In fact, he’s gotten lucky on quite a few dropped interceptions but I guess that’s bound to happen when throwing 40, 50 times a game.

Another nit pick is that he under throws too many deep routes. If he could just get the ball out a little quicker, we would have even better YAC.

With that said, I’m very happy with Schaub. As someone else said, with an improved running game and more time under center, his game could really flourish.

davemundy
10-19-2009, 10:23 PM
That's bullbutter!

Signed,

The New Orleans Saints

P.S. We can run the ball too!

Hehehe, you have a point there. The Aints looked extremely impressive Sunday.

Brisco_County
10-20-2009, 01:46 AM
Maybe one of the reasons why Schaub has his detractors is because he doesn't look athletic. It could also be because he's the goofiest looking, most non-photogenic NFL player that isn't named Marshawn Lynch. Star QB's aren't supposed to look like the IT guy from work, or take pictures with their eyes halfway open.

DocBar
10-20-2009, 03:18 AM
I can't believe someone said Tony Homo is a top 10 QB. What a joke.
Schaub is kind of looking like Brees in that he sees the field well, is a very accurate passer, utilizes all of his weapons and is making mostly smart decisions. His arm strength scares me: I just rewatched a very underthrown deep pass to AJ and it was pure luck that Leon Hall didn't pick it off. I've seen several of those.
Schaub will never be a Manning-like QB, I can't think of any QB who has done things like Peyton Manning- the guy's almost like a robot, but he is a very good QB and shows the potential to be an elite QB. Unless you play for a media favorite team, you gotta be very good for a couple of years before you get coronated as elite. Schaub still has work to do in that area, but so far he's held up well this season. He's taken some big shots and gotten back up.

76Texan
10-20-2009, 08:16 AM
How about you give a definition? On its face the ability to huck up 350+ yards in any given game along with a 7 TD to 2 INT ratio in the last two, loving the middle of the field, not relying solely on the superstar WR, leading the league in TD's oh and an ability to put his team in a position to win with 4th quarter drives. I'm trying to figure out what definition has him as not a top tier QB.

Since when is a QB considered to be top ten material by judging his output in a mere two games?

When you extrapolate the number of pass attempts and TDs, Schaub is not the league leading TD leader.
Even though the number worths a spot in the top ten, stats often does not tell the whole story.
When the QB throw a quick screen pass or a swing pass to the flat and the RB or receiver takes it and makes a bunch of guys miss, with help from his blockers, that is not the mark of a great QB.
Those are marks of a great receiver or RB.
The QB only rides their coat tail in those instances.

Schaub has 7 receivers who each caught at least 5% of his completions so far this year. (That's the first time in his career).
So did David Carr in 06, he also had 7 guys who each caught at least 5% of his pass. Is he a great QB?

In the 2 games that Schaub had the chance to win the game in the 4th qtr, the Defense allowed a mere 7 points in the second half (against the Tacks).

The Titans decided not to kick a FG from our 31 with Bironas in tow; instead they opted to go on 4th qtr, and got stuffed by our D.
Then on their next drive, we sacked Collins on 3rd and one.
Let's go ahead and give the win to Schaub, I don't mind.
He contributed a good part in it.

Against the Cards, Schaub killed one of those chances with an INT;
then missed a wide-open Dreessen in the end zone.

So I don't know what you mean by DRIVES when there was only one 4th qtr winning drive.

And what about the games in which Schaub played poorly and the Texans got behind and couldn't recover? Are those the jobs of a great QB?

HoustonFrog
10-20-2009, 08:38 AM
Ummm....yes, yes I did.

Big Ben gets a little more hype for his teams accomplishments than I'm willing to recognize.

Read backwards a few pages in my discussion with Dale...he is the #1 QB this year overall and last year he did alot of the same with both RBs injured. You say this but what has Rivers done to take his team anywhere?

HOU-TEX
10-20-2009, 08:44 AM
Amazing. The dude has been one of our best players so far this season, yet people still find things about him to ***** about. Reminds me of these morons calling in to talk shows blaming everything on Schaub. Crazy!

If we're going to complain about something, take a look at our Oline's run blocking. Or even our RB's for that matter.

76Texan
10-20-2009, 08:49 AM
Amazing. The dude has been one of our best players so far this season, yet people still find things about him to ***** about. Reminds me of these morons calling in to talk shows blaming everything on Schaub. Crazy!

If we're going to complain about something, take a look at our Oline's run blocking. Or even our RB's for that matter.

Like when Myers is doing a great job overall, and somebody kept complaining about him? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

:hides:

At least, Schaub had me considering him for the top ten!

HOU-TEX
10-20-2009, 08:53 AM
Like when Myers is doing a great job overall, and somebody kept complaining about him? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

:hides:

At least, Schaub had me considering him for the top ten!

I've taken a personal vow not to rant on Myers, but he's at least a legitimate player to complain about.

Oh, one more thing, Myers is NOT doing a great job overall. He's, by far, our weakest link in our Oline.

infantrycak
10-20-2009, 08:54 AM
Since when is a QB considered to be top ten material by judging his output in a mere two games?

I referenced the last two games for one stat. That doesn't mean I ignored his other games.

So I don't know what you mean by DRIVES when there was only one 4th qtr winning drive.

Go check your history because it is obviously off.

76Texan
10-20-2009, 08:58 AM
Go check your history because it is obviously off.
Not that I'm lazy, but since you brought it up, would you not mind name the instances. That sure would make things easier for all. Thanks.

76Texan
10-20-2009, 09:00 AM
I've taken a personal vow not to rant on Myers, but he's at least a legitimate player to complain about.

Oh, one more thing, Myers is NOT doing a great job overall. He's, by far, our weakest link in our Oline.

Never mind then.
It's obvious we've watching different guys playing. :cool:

I will just keep showing the goods and the bads of each blocker as I see them, whenever I have time.

HOU-TEX
10-20-2009, 09:06 AM
Never mind then.
It's obvious we've watching different guys playing. :cool:

I will just keep showing the goods and the bads of each blocker as I see them, whenever I have time.

That's cool. I read most of your replay posts. I just don't agree with what you see or don't see on Myers and the two guards all the time. It happens, no worries. :winky:

Texan_Bill
10-20-2009, 09:07 AM
Not that I'm lazy, but since you brought it up, would you not mind name the instances. That sure would make things easier for all. Thanks.

:secret: psssst, check near the end of the Jacksonville game.

ChampionTexan
10-20-2009, 09:16 AM
Not that I'm lazy, but since you brought it up, would you not mind name the instances. That sure would make things easier for all. Thanks.

:secret: psssst, check near the end of the Jacksonville game.

Last year's Miami game is the first one that jumps to mind for me - and we actually won that game.

infantrycak
10-20-2009, 09:17 AM
Not that I'm lazy, but since you brought it up, would you not mind name the instances. That sure would make things easier for all. Thanks.

Don't limit your consideration to only this year.

Texan_Bill
10-20-2009, 09:18 AM
Last year's Miami game is the first one that jumps to mind for me - and we actually won that game.

There was also Green Bay, which we won also.

JDizzle
10-20-2009, 09:18 AM
It seems Schaub is suffering from overexposure with some of you guys. I guarantee you if you watch these other QB's take every one of their snaps each week you'll see plenty of flaws in their game too, but most of us rely on highlight reels and stat lines and don't see all of the mistakes they make.

HOU-TEX
10-20-2009, 09:22 AM
Last year's Miami game is the first one that jumps to mind for me - and we actually won that game.

Green Bay game? Freezing ass cold with 1:49 left in the game on our own freakin 3 yard line. We drive to GB's 22 for a KB field goal with :04 left.

I'd have to say that was an impressive drive. The Miami drive was pretty sweet too.

Texan_Bill
10-20-2009, 09:23 AM
There was also Green Bay, which we won also.

Green Bay game? Freezing ass cold with 1:49 left in the game on our own freakin 3 yard line. We drive to GB's 22 for a KB field goal with :04 left.

I'd have to say that was an impressive drive. The Miami drive was pretty sweet too.

:foottap:

HOU-TEX
10-20-2009, 09:31 AM
:foottap:

I was typing as you posted. Mine's better anyway. I provided information :neener:

Texan_Bill
10-20-2009, 09:44 AM
I was typing as you posted. Mine's better anyway. I provided information :neener:

Schaub 28 of 42 for 414 yards. Slaton 26 carries for 120. :tease:

HOU-TEX
10-20-2009, 09:49 AM
Schaub 28 of 42 for 414 yards. Slaton 26 carries for 120. :tease:

I provided info of the winning drive itself. http://www.dogmall.co.uk/smile/mad/mad0029.gif (http://www.dogmall.co.uk/dog-beds-baskets/waterproof-dog-beds/)

Texan_Bill
10-20-2009, 09:53 AM
I provided info of the winning drive itself. http://www.dogmall.co.uk/smile/mad/mad0029.gif (http://www.dogmall.co.uk/dog-beds-baskets/waterproof-dog-beds/)

You failed to mention the play that set up Kris Brown's 40 yard field goal. It was Slaton, right end to GB 30 for 34 yards. :gamer:

New_Texans
10-20-2009, 10:22 AM
Since when is a QB considered to be top ten material by judging his output in a mere two games?

When you extrapolate the number of pass attempts and TDs, Schaub is not the league leading TD leader.
Even though the number worths a spot in the top ten, stats often does not tell the whole story.
When the QB throw a quick screen pass or a swing pass to the flat and the RB or receiver takes it and makes a bunch of guys miss, with help from his blockers, that is not the mark of a great QB.
Those are marks of a great receiver or RB.
The QB only rides their coat tail in those instances.

Schaub has 7 receivers who each caught at least 5% of his completions so far this year. (That's the first time in his career).
So did David Carr in 06, he also had 7 guys who each caught at least 5% of his pass. Is he a great QB?

In the 2 games that Schaub had the chance to win the game in the 4th qtr, the Defense allowed a mere 7 points in the second half (against the Tacks).

The Titans decided not to kick a FG from our 31 with Bironas in tow; instead they opted to go on 4th qtr, and got stuffed by our D.
Then on their next drive, we sacked Collins on 3rd and one.
Let's go ahead and give the win to Schaub, I don't mind.
He contributed a good part in it.

Against the Cards, Schaub killed one of those chances with an INT;
then missed a wide-open Dreessen in the end zone.

So I don't know what you mean by DRIVES when there was only one 4th qtr winning drive.

And what about the games in which Schaub played poorly and the Texans got behind and couldn't recover? Are those the jobs of a great QB?

In Schaub's defense, Dressen didn't do the one yard rule toward the back of the endzone.

Hooston Texan
10-20-2009, 10:44 AM
Schaub game-winning or game-tying drives (late):

Miami 2007: With the game tied at 19, gets the ball on our 3 with 1:33 to go and drives us for the winning FG.

at Jacksonville 2008: Trailing 27-24, gets the ball at our 18 with 1:47 left and drives for the tying FG. We lost the game when we lost the coin toss. While I don't think Schaub called heads or tails, I'm sure some Texans fans were thinking that we lost the coin toss because of him.

Miami 2008: Trailing 28-23, has the ball on our 16 with 1:18 left (after getting sacked by Joey Porter on the first play of the drive) and drives us to the winning TD.

Green Bay 2008 was already discussed, but it bears noting that drive started inside our five.

So that's four very long (starting inside our 20) scoring drives for the tie or win at the end of games. The only two times he failed to get the late tying or winning score when he's had the chance are the Jags and Cards games this year. Both of those drives ended inches away from paydirt.

76Texan
10-20-2009, 11:01 AM
How many of the posters here considered Schaub as top ten materials in 07 when he fumbled like 7 times and threw 9 Ints in 11 games; or in 08 when he fumbled like 10 times and threw 10 picks in 11 games?

Raise your hand! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

It looks like he was regressing, wasnn't he?

Texan_Bill
10-20-2009, 11:03 AM
How many of the posters here considered Schaub as top ten materials in 07 when he fumbled like 7 times and threw 9 Ints in 11 games; or in 08 when he fumbled like 10 times and threw 10 picks in 11 games?

Raise your hand! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

It looks like he was regressing, wasnn't he?

He was, for all intents and purposes, a rookie.

steelbtexan
10-20-2009, 11:09 AM
Green Bay game? Freezing ass cold with 1:49 left in the game on our own freakin 3 yard line. We drive to GB's 22 for a KB field goal with :04 left.

I'd have to say that was an impressive drive. The Miami drive was pretty sweet too.

Yep

Some people cant admit that Schaub is carrying this team.

I dont want to contemplate where this team would be without him.

He screwed up in the Arizona game. (Int, Missing Dreesen) but they wouldn't have even been in that game without Schaubs stellar second half performance.

The Texans are a passing team. When you throw the ball 50 times a game there are going to be 1 or 2 ints. and a few throws that are over/under thrown.

These are things that as Texan fans we are going to have to live with. If they could run the ball better that would help but I dont see that happening with the current state of the interior of the OL.

Runner
10-20-2009, 11:18 AM
I'm happy with Schaub. If he stays healthy I have confidence in the QB position.

Jackie Chiles
10-20-2009, 04:31 PM
His arm strength scares me: I just rewatched a very underthrown deep pass to AJ and it was pure luck that Leon Hall didn't pick it off. I've seen several of those.

I just re-watched that play and Matt got nailed right as he was throwing that ball. He usually throws a very nice deep ball.

Overall, the last couple of games he has had two questionable deep outs but that is really nit-picking considering all the other great throws he has made. He has been playing at a pro-bowl level since game 2.

barrett
10-20-2009, 04:43 PM
Andre Johnson is sitting on his route. It's as much his fault as it is Schaubs.

Having said that, I do feel that his arm strength seems somewhat diluted.

Jackie Chiles
10-20-2009, 04:43 PM
Another observation during my second time through this game on Slaton's TD reception, first some background from TMQB:

"Adventures in Officiating: Running back Steve Slaton of Houston lined up wide and took a hitch screen 38 yards for a touchdown, the second time this season that play has produced a touchdown for the Moo Cows. But offensive linemen Chris Myers and Kasey Studdard were 5 yards downfield when Slaton caught the pass; flags should have flown."

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=easterbrook/091020&sportCat=nfl

Is the ineligible man downfield call based on when the pass is caught or when the pass is thrown? I always assumed it was when the pass was thrown. In this instance Schaub gets the pass out extremely quickly to Slaton but has a loft on it so by the time he catches it the linemen have a bit of a headstart. Looks perfectly legit to me but perhaps someone with a bit more knowledge on the subject could share their insight?

PS Gregg Easterbrook can suck it regardless as far as I'm concerned.

Mailman
10-20-2009, 04:53 PM
It's a violation only if the offending lineman is more than a yard beyond the line of scrimmage at the moment the pass is thrown. Easterbrook is a f'n dummy.

wags
10-20-2009, 04:54 PM
Schaub is a good QB. Definitely having the best season of any Texans QB so far... why don't we try and enjoy it.

infantrycak
10-20-2009, 05:22 PM
Schaub is a good QB. Definitely having the best season of any Texans QB so far... why don't we try and enjoy it.

Isn't that kind of like setting the bar at limboing under the St. Louis Arch?

Second Honeymoon
10-20-2009, 05:47 PM
Schaub has done a good job since coming here. He doesn't have the athleticism that you like to improvise but he has done a great job limiting his mistakes and not taking sacks when possible. He may not be elite but he is a legitimate NFL starter behind center and that is something we never had except a few weeks of Banks.

Schaub lacks a little arm strength for deep outs but he does a great job on playaction passes where they are posting or streaking downfield. They haven't been as successful with it this year for obvious reasons, but he does an adequate job at following through on his fakes. Good pump fake and can throw over the middle without getting his balls batted down. Still happens but it happens to everyone...it just doesnt have to happen 6 times a game.

A healthy Schaub is part of the solution, not part of the problem.

We need to focus on real needs, more intensity on defense, upgrade center, upgrade safety, add another corner. develop a feasable goal line/short yardage package, show more intensity and urgency as a team from coaching to front office to the players.

barrett
10-20-2009, 06:01 PM
I'm seeing quite a bit of intensity for this defense.

76Texan
10-21-2009, 10:40 AM
Schaub is a good QB. Definitely having the best season of any Texans QB so far... why don't we try and enjoy it.

Why ya' think I've been spending countless of hours the last 3 years watching all the game films over and over and over and over again?
To torture myself? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

On game day, when I'm on the board, 99% of the time I'm cheering.
I've always said, as long as the boys keep fighting, I will keep cheering.

Take the Cards game for example.
While most people was moaning and groaning, I was cheering.
At halftime, I even said "the Texans will show up in the second half".

Ya' don't have to worry about me not enjoying it! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

El Tejano
10-21-2009, 10:51 AM
I like Schaub because he has a calming presence about him that I believe is the most important thing with our offense. If he does something bad, he looks okay. If he does something great, he still looks okay. He only celebrates when the ball is in the endzone.

That's very important to a young offense and young team. They know that with him, things are going to be okay and he will get the job done.

76Texan
10-21-2009, 11:20 AM
I like Schaub because he has a calming presence about him that I believe is the most important thing with our offense. If he does something bad, he looks okay. If he does something great, he still looks okay. He only celebrates when the ball is in the endzone.

That's very important to a young offense and young team. They know that with him, things are going to be okay and he will get the job done.

It doesn't mean that he shouldn't work to improve his game.

After reading all these books from Bill Wash to Madden to Phil Simms to Joe Namath (etc.) and taking into considerations the comments of different commentators who cover our games (including Steve Tasker and Randy Cross), I see a few things Schaub (with the help from his coaches) can do and should do to become a better player.

My criticisms are positive; they are not geared toward putting down a player; they are geared toward the possible improvement of the subject in discussion.

eriadoc
10-21-2009, 11:26 AM
How the hell does this thread go this long? Seriously, unless you have a plan for attracting Drew Brees, Peyton Manning, or Tom Brady, Schaub is about as good as it gets. There's that top tier, then there's the next tier, and Schaub has moved up to it for now. We'll see where he ends up, but very few QBs are asked to throw the ball as much as he is, and very few have the success doing it under those circumstances.

For the 11 games Schaub played in last year, he averaged 275 yards per game (a pace of 4400 yds). This year, he's raised that average. Ideally, we''d have a team where we don't ask our QB to carry the team like that, but that's where we are. So you take what you can get.

El Tejano
10-21-2009, 11:31 AM
It doesn't mean that he shouldn't work to improve his game.

After reading all these books from Bill Wash to Madden to Phil Simms to Joe Namath (etc.) and taking into considerations the comments of different commentators who cover our games (including Steve Tasker and Randy Cross), I see a few things Schaub (with the help from his coaches) can do and should do to become a better player.

My criticisms are positive; they are not geared toward putting down a player; they are geared toward the possible improvement of the subject in discussion.

Well, duh. I never said anything about him not having to improve his game. That kind of goes without saying. In this league, if you are not doing anything to improve you are getting worse. Of course he has things to work on. However, he's also a good QB that gives you a chance to win because he has a calm presence about him. Remember in the Miami game last year when he said we had them where we wanted them?

ChampionTexan
10-21-2009, 11:33 AM
It doesn't mean that he shouldn't work to improve his game.

After reading all these books from Bill Wash to Madden to Phil Simms to Joe Namath (etc.) and taking into considerations the comments of different commentators who cover our games (including Steve Tasker and Randy Cross), I see a few things Schaub (with the help from his coaches) can do and should do to become a better player.

My criticisms are positive; they are not geared toward putting down a player; they are geared toward the possible improvement of the subject in discussion.

I 100% agree, and with less than 2 full seasons of starts under his belt, there's every reason to believe that Matt Schaub is very much a work in process, and should not be expected to have fully matured as a QB for at least a couple more seasons.

I like him alot now, and I expect to like him more in years to come.

76Texan
10-21-2009, 12:21 PM
I 100% agree, and with less than 2 full seasons of starts under his belt, there's every reason to believe that Matt Schaub is very much a work in process, and should not be expected to have fully matured as a QB for at least a couple more seasons.

I like him alot now, and I expect to like him more in years to come.

When Schaub first got here and he did well at the start and even Vinny said that he was ahead of the learning process, I refrained myself and said (with all due respect to Vinny) that Schaub was on schedule and not ahead.

But Schaub is now in his 7th year; and only because I think he can do better that I say he should take upon himself MORE than ever to do the things necessary to become better.

There are things that should be automatic for a QB (who's supposed to be in the top ten), for example, when they rush only 3 and drop back 8 beyond the first down marker to defend the pass.

If two guys rush to one side and you have three blockers to take them on, it means you have a double team on the other pass rusher, and you should step up the pocket toward that side, no question ask.
You can see the field so much better while waiting to see whether a receiver becomes open. You can weigh your chance to run for the first down much better, or to throw to the hot receiver for the same result. To get yourself subjected to the pass rush on such situation is a sin.

There were similar situations when they rush four and you have a clear running lane for the first down, a top ten QB needs to pull up and run for it.
You don't have to be a great runner. You don't have to be Vince Young. You just have to know the situation.

Those are the few things I think the coaches can help Schaub to improve on right now.

76Texan
10-21-2009, 12:36 PM
The added bonus is once you start to run for the first down, even if you're short, the defense has to take it into consideration.

They have to guard for it the next time around, and that means you have a better chance to find an open receiver.

76Texan
10-21-2009, 01:07 PM
The next thing I'd like for Schaub to work on is to step up and then sidestep the pressure, or simply to side step the pressure.

When he can see a pass rusher gaining an edge on Winston to the outside, Schaub can help by stepping up then move to his right.

When the rusher gains an edge on Winston to the inside, he can easily sidestep to the outside to make his throw.

For the time they had spent on the team, Schaub should be able to build rapport with Winston the blocker as well as he's been able to build his rapport with the receivers.

76Texan
10-21-2009, 01:49 PM
The next step I think Schaub needs to work on is to progress through his reads (of the receivers and the defense downfield) while reading the pass rush at the same time. They are both in his vision at the same time. A good QB (let alone a great one) ought to be able to see what's right in front of him as well as his receivers and the defenders downfield when they are all in front of him.

The better QB remembers what he saw on the first read so that when he proceeds to his second read, he knows to throw the ball away when the 2nd option is not there and the pass rush (that he already saw) is coming.

Goatcheese
10-21-2009, 03:32 PM
Schaub on Rome in a few minutes. :thisbig:

Dapper
10-21-2009, 04:30 PM
i have a bet for a bunch of diet cokes that schaub is going to the pro-bowl this year. made the bet pre-season. am i stupid for making that bet?

odds he's a pro=bowler = ?

thunderkyss
10-21-2009, 04:38 PM
I think most of the "reasonable" posters have said that he is a very good QB as long as he stays healthy for a whole year. That has been my take.

My take, is that he is not a play-maker. Which is fine, if everything works the way it's supposed to work, and he's throwing the ball to play-makers.

AJ...... check
KDub.... check
OD..... check
Slaton... check
Jacoby Jones... getting there.

he'll be fine.

But ask me how he's playing... & I'll tell you, what I think.

datchapin
10-21-2009, 05:46 PM
JMO, I don't think Schaub is an elite QB. Top ten maybe, but I don't see all the qualities in him that I would say he's elite. Physically he's got the size, but he doesn't have the arm or the mobility. Matter of fact one could make the argument that Grossman has a better arm and mobility. His presence in the pocket is so-so, he can somewhat avoid pressure, but making a play while avoiding that pressure is something I don't recall seeing him do on a consistent basis. The main drawback on him though, to me, is his decision making and consistency. Sometimes he'll lock onto a receiver and try to force the ball regardless of the coverage. I don't see him controlling the defense by looking off the safeties, pump fakes to make the defense bite or other tendencies which I would attribute to elite QB's.

All that being said, I don't think he needs to be elite to take us to the playoffs. If he can cut down on mental mistakes and take what the defense gives him, I'm sure the rest of the team is good enough to get us to the playoffs. This offense is designed to put up points by bunches and is QB friendly. I expect us to make the playoffs this yr. if we don't..... I'm not sure yet. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there, but for now, I'm still all about the playoffs.

GO TEXANS!!!!

datchapin
10-21-2009, 05:46 PM
But ask me how he's playing... & I'll tell you, what I think.

How's he playing?

DocBar
10-21-2009, 06:47 PM
JMO, I don't think Schaub is an elite QB. Top ten maybe, but I don't see all the qualities in him that I would say he's elite. Physically he's got the size, but he doesn't have the arm or the mobility. Matter of fact one could make the argument that Grossman has a better arm and mobility. His presence in the pocket is so-so, he can somewhat avoid pressure, but making a play while avoiding that pressure is something I don't recall seeing him do on a consistent basis. The main drawback on him though, to me, is his decision making and consistency. Sometimes he'll lock onto a receiver and try to force the ball regardless of the coverage. I don't see him controlling the defense by looking off the safeties, pump fakes to make the defense bite or other tendencies which I would attribute to elite QB's.

All that being said, I don't think he needs to be elite to take us to the playoffs. If he can cut down on mental mistakes and take what the defense gives him, I'm sure the rest of the team is good enough to get us to the playoffs. This offense is designed to put up points by bunches and is QB friendly. I expect us to make the playoffs this yr. if we don't..... I'm not sure yet. I guess I'll cross that bridge when I get there, but for now, I'm still all about the playoffs.

GO TEXANS!!!!Schaub definately needs to work on his mobility in the pocket and in general, but if he continues to play like he has this year, he'll be top 10. Do it for 2 years and he's top 5. Every QB not named Peyton Manning has his warts. I'm sure Manning has some, but they're dificult to find.

thunderkyss
10-21-2009, 07:25 PM
How's he playing?

He's playing fine.

He's putting up great numbers. But he is not a great QB.

Right now, he's a system QB playing in a system that allowed David Carr & Sage Rosenfels to put up great numbers as well. Both David Carr & Sage Rosenfels had/have many aspects of their game, So does Matt.

Goatcheese
10-21-2009, 07:30 PM
He's playing fine.

He's putting up great numbers. But he is not a great QB.

Right now, he's a system QB that allowed David Carr & Sage Rosenfels to put up great numbers as well. Both David Carr & Sage Rosenfels had/have many aspects of their game, So does Matt.

:mcnugget:

Tell me you're joking.

HHWNBN put up great numbers in this system? Seriously?

He completed 68.3% of his passes for a mind blowing 2,767 yards, at an amazing 6.3 yards per attempt, and managed a spectacular 11 TDs and 12 INTs in 16 games.

Great stats? Wut? :foottap:

DocBar
10-21-2009, 07:34 PM
He's playing fine.

He's putting up great numbers. But he is not a great QB.

Right now, he's a system QB that allowed David Carr & Sage Rosenfels to put up great numbers as well. Both David Carr & Sage Rosenfels had/have many aspects of their game, So does Matt.

David Carr put up great numbers in Kubiaks system? That's just too funny. Carr barley put up decent numbers. But it was all the OL's fault.

Fox
10-21-2009, 07:34 PM
:mcnugget:

Tell me you're joking.

HHWNBN put up great numbers in this system? Seriously?

He completed 68.3% of his passes for a mind blowing 2,767 yards, at an amazing 6.3 yards per attempt, and managed a spectacular 11 TDs and 12 INTs in 16 games.

Great stats? Wut? :foottap:

Ditto, we haven't had a QB play like this and do so consistently as Schaub has done.

Second Honeymoon
10-21-2009, 07:37 PM
He's playing fine.

He's putting up great numbers. But he is not a great QB.

Right now, he's a system QB that allowed David Carr & Sage Rosenfels to put up great numbers as well. Both David Carr & Sage Rosenfels had/have many aspects of their game, So does Matt.

dude thunderkyss. you have had so many solid takes and you are one of the few people that made sense. but lately, your takes just aren't adding up and its going from bad to worse. i don't know if you are on new meds or what, but you are killin' me over here.

feel free to not compare Carr to Schaub and act like they are even somewhat equal ever again.

last week you said Myers was our best OL. this week you are acting like Carr is as good as Schaub.

back away from the bong

thunderkyss
10-21-2009, 07:38 PM
Schaub definately needs to work on his mobility in the pocket and in general, but if he continues to play like he has this year, he'll be top 10. Do it for 2 years and he's top 5. Every QB not named Peyton Manning has his warts. I'm sure Manning has some, but they're dificult to find.

Peyton Manning wasn't always "Peyton Manning" his first couple years, are very similar to Schaub's first couple, as a starter..... minus the injuries.

My biggest criticism of Schaub, is that he was sold to us as ready.. & as a leader. He's neither.

He'll eventually be a true starter, if he continues to improve.

Second Honeymoon
10-21-2009, 07:42 PM
Peyton Manning wasn't always "Peyton Manning" his first couple years, are very similar to Schaub's first couple, as a starter..... minus the injuries.

My biggest criticism of Schaub, is that he was sold to us as ready.. & as a leader. He's neither.

He'll eventually be a true starter, if he continues to improve.

dude, this is painful drivel. Peyton was 'Peyton Manning' his 2nd year in the league. Schaub is no Peyton and never will be. Peyton is an All-Time great...for my money, easily one of the best of all-time alongside Montana and Elway.

how is Schaub not ready? how is the NFL leader in touchdown paases not ready? he was an upgrade from day one and besides the injuries has been the best we could have ever hoped for. i am not a stat guy but we haven't had problem moving the ball and the red-zone problems have gotten better. he throws the odd pick every once in a while but when you throw it 30+ times a game that stuff happens. as for leadership, i have heard nothing but good things regarding said leadership. one of the first to arrive, one of the last to leave, and he works hard in the offseason and in preparation during the week.

cmon tkyss. your better than this. youre too young to be going senile.

dalemurphy
10-21-2009, 07:49 PM
dude thunderkyss. you used to have so many good takes and you used to be one of the few people that made sense. lately, your takes just dont add up and its going from bad to worse. i don't know if you are on new meds or what, but you are killin' me with some of this spew.

feel free to not compare Carr to Schaub and act like they are even somewhat equal ever again.

last week you said Myers was our best OL. this week you are acting like Carr is as good as Schaub.

back away from the bong


I'm going to defend thunderkyss here. He was making a comparison. He wasn't trying to assert both QBs are equally as productive. If I remember correctly, David Carr's completion percentage was about 67% in 2006 and many of his other numbers looked pretty good too. It was clear that Kubiak was unsatisfied with him yet his production was much better than we had seen since early 2004. I think TK is simply trying to credit Schaub's elite numbers to Kubiak while acknowledging that Schaub is a limited athlete.

I don't totally agree with TK on this but he raises a valid point.

Anyway, one of the great things about the QB position that is rather unique in the pro sport arena, is that the QB can continue to improve and his play can peak quite late in his career. Their is no reason to doubt that with the coaching and Schaub's dedication to his craft he won't continue to improve and could become a great QB. While 76Texan criticisms are presented rather harshly, he makes excellent points and I do agree with most of them. I just also believe in, and expect continued improvement from him in those areas. For instance, I was excited (as was Kubiak) to see his improvisation on the max blitz in the first half when he dumped the ball to OD for a first down.

Atl Cav
10-21-2009, 07:57 PM
Thunderkyss, it is observations like this that makes me wonder why I read this board. Matt is a talented winner, and he is now surrounded by enough talent to generate one of the most prolific and dependable offenses in the NFL. But anyone who equates Matt with Carr and Sage deserves to be a fan of a team with a lesser quarterback. I am hopeful our fan base will show Matt the recognition he deserves. Real fans appreciate when players deliver as Matt has, and recognize he has done so without a credible run threat.

Second Honeymoon
10-21-2009, 08:02 PM
oh i know what you are saying, dale. im just busting tkyss's juevos. he always has great stuff to contribute but i was just giving him a hard time. we may not agree on Myers or perhaps even Schaub lately, but tkyss has always had his finger on the pulse of the Texans with his own spin.

thunderkyss
10-21-2009, 08:16 PM
:mcnugget:

He completed 68.3% of his passes for a mind blowing 2,767 yards, at an amazing 6.3 yards per attempt, and managed a spectacular 11 TDs and 12 INTs in 16 games.

Great stats? Wut? :foottap:

May not have been the people replying in this thread, but there were sooooo many people here who gushed over Carr's stats & the "improvements" he made since Kubiak got here.

David Carr put up great numbers in Kubiaks system? That's just too funny. Carr barley put up decent numbers. But it was all the OL's fault.

Some folks were even blaming it on AJs inability to get open.

dude thunderkyss. you used to have so many good takes and you used to be one of the few people that made sense. lately, your takes just dont add up and its going from bad to worse. i don't know if you are on new meds or what, but you are killin' me with some of this spew.

I know.... don't know what to say.

feel free to not compare Carr to Schaub and act like they are even somewhat equal ever again.
I'll try.....

last week you said Myers was our best OL. this week you are acting like Carr is as good as Schaub.

back away from the bong

Myers is still our best offensive lineman. Winston is our worse. I just watched a play (I'm re-watching the Bengals game) in the third Qtr, where Meyers is handling the NT at the LOS. Not giving up any ground, Winston runs him over while trying to get out to block. As goofy as it sounds, that your RT ran over your center while trying to get out to block.... that's what happened.

I just watched ODs TD in the 3rd Qtr. Amazing catch. Think about all the amazing catches OD has made.... the Amazing TD Andre had against the Cardinals...

Before ODs 3rd Qtr TD against the Bengals. Do you remember JJ's TD? How wide open he was? How big the pocket Schaub had? Do you remember the catch?

Atl Cav
10-21-2009, 08:17 PM
Thunderkyss, I retract the extreme nature of my previous post. Sorry, I just read it and I didnt mean to put it so strongly.
I simply enjoy our offensive performance, and I think good sports towns/fans should enjoy their very strong (if not great) performers without questioning their abilities, or comparing them to what I believe are lesser talents who couldnt deliver int he same way. I think Matt will become even more of a leader if he believes he has the fan support he deserves.

thunderkyss
10-21-2009, 08:21 PM
When Schaub first got here and he did well at the start and even Vinny said that he was ahead of the learning process, I refrained myself and said (with all due respect to Vinny) that Schaub was on schedule and not ahead.

But Schaub is now in his 7th year; and only because I think he can do better that I say he should take upon himself MORE than ever to do the things necessary to become better.

There are things that should be automatic for a QB (who's supposed to be in the top ten), for example, when they rush only 3 and drop back 8 beyond the first down marker to defend the pass.

If two guys rush to one side and you have three blockers to take them on, it means you have a double team on the other pass rusher, and you should step up the pocket toward that side, no question ask.
You can see the field so much better while waiting to see whether a receiver becomes open. You can weigh your chance to run for the first down much better, or to throw to the hot receiver for the same result. To get yourself subjected to the pass rush on such situation is a sin.

There were similar situations when they rush four and you have a clear running lane for the first down, a top ten QB needs to pull up and run for it.
You don't have to be a great runner. You don't have to be Vince Young. You just have to know the situation.

Those are the few things I think the coaches can help Schaub to improve on right now.


This sounds so much like my criticism of another high dollar QB that used to play for this team......

it's not just me guys.

HouSportsWriter
10-21-2009, 08:31 PM
point blank,,schaub is an awsome quarterback. schaub is the leader of touchdowns and is usely close to the leader in yards and allways has a high compleation rate even tho he gets injured i say he gos to to the or bowl this year

david is not any way close to schaub if you blame the o-line then why did sage do so good? carr is bad and allways will be.


point blank we will not draft a qb schaub is our leader

thunderkyss
10-21-2009, 08:34 PM
....or comparing them to what I believe are lesser talents who couldnt deliver int he same way. I think Matt will become even more of a leader if he believes he has the fan support he deserves.

David Carr was picked #1 overall.... if we didn't pick him #1 overall, he would have been picked #2 overall. Can't say that he is "less" talented than anyone we've had on this team at that position.

Look. I've been here supporting our defense, because I've seen that they have been playing much harder, and much better than any team we've fielded to date. I even have a "Damn Proud" thread that I need to go bump because of my belief, and my support after a game they gave 120% in a losing effort.

I don't need them to win, in order to spot good play.

At the same time, even if our QB throws for 400 yards & 4 TDs in a that losing effort, I'll mention his inability to get anything done the entire second half.

ReliantTexan
10-21-2009, 08:38 PM
I just watched ODs TD in the 3rd Qtr. Amazing catch. Think about all the amazing catches OD has made.... the Amazing TD Andre had against the Cardinals...

Before ODs 3rd Qtr TD against the Bengals. Do you remember JJ's TD? How wide open he was? How big the pocket Schaub had? Do you remember the catch?I would like to comment on the AJ TD against the cardinals. It was an amazing play on AJ's part but they broke that play down (and others of Matt on nfl total access),and it was an excellent throw, matt had a defender in his face which forced him to side arm it around him. Their were several others plays where Matt showed great poise and accuracy under duress. On the Jones Td, Schaub wasn't in the pocket he was rolling out, it was a little low but Schaub had to set his feet and deliver the ball quickly.

dalemurphy
10-21-2009, 08:41 PM
This sounds so much like my criticism of another high dollar QB that used to play for this team......

it's not just me guys.


Sure. David Carr was very athletic, had a quick release, and a great arm. So, any criticism of his play was going to be about the nuance of the position.

Schaub gets criticized for his less than stellar arm and for his elongated release. Other than that, the only thing left for him to improve on are the nuances of the position. Since he's not Peyton Manning, he has areas to improve on. And, since David Carr was a 5 year long, in our face example of how not to play the QB position, then just about any criticism relating to the QB position is going to sound quite familiar to us.

thunderkyss
10-21-2009, 08:44 PM
Sure. David Carr was very athletic, had a quick release, and a great arm. So, any criticism of his play was going to be about the nuance of the position.

Schaub gets criticized for his less than stellar arm and for his elongated release. Other than that, the only thing left for him to improve on are the nuances of the position. Since he's not Peyton Manning, he has areas to improve on. And, since David Carr was a 5 year long, in our face example of how not to play the QB position, then just about any criticism relating to the QB position is going to sound quite familiar to us.

good point

ReliantTexan
10-21-2009, 08:51 PM
here's that piece I was talking about on total access.

http://www.nfl.com/videos (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-network-total-access/09000d5d81399165/49ers-vs-Matt-Schaub)

GuerillaBlack
10-21-2009, 09:06 PM
Sure. David Carr was very athletic, had a quick release, and a great arm. So, any criticism of his play was going to be about the nuance of the position.

Schaub gets criticized for his less than stellar arm and for his elongated release. Other than that, the only thing left for him to improve on are the nuances of the position. Since he's not Peyton Manning, he has areas to improve on. And, since David Carr was a 5 year long, in our face example of how not to play the QB position, then just about any criticism relating to the QB position is going to sound quite familiar to us.

We need to find a way to get Matt Schaub's brain into David Carr's body. Carr almost never got injured. Plus, he could run and has a stronger arm than Schaub. ;)

please don't mistake the last sentence as me wanting Carr over Schaub.

DerekLee1
10-21-2009, 09:49 PM
We need to find a way to get Matt Schaub's brain into David Carr's body. Carr almost never got injured. Plus, he could run and has a stronger arm than Schaub. ;)

please don't mistake the last sentence as me wanting Carr over Schaub.

Carr never got cheap-shotted the way that Matt did two seasons straight. He just curled up in the fetal if he even smelled a defender. Capers screwed up by starting Carr right away with no offensive line when he had the veteran Banks on the sidelines. He ruined a potential great talent. Carr shows much more poise and confidence with the Giants than he ever did here.

Schaub is an elite pocket passer. I wish his deep ball were better and that he could run better, but even with those weaknesses, he's a top 5 QB against the current field.

eriadoc
10-21-2009, 09:54 PM
My take, is that he is not a play-maker. Which is fine, if everything works the way it's supposed to work, and he's throwing the ball to play-makers.

AJ...... check
KDub.... check
OD..... check
Slaton... check
Jacoby Jones... getting there.

he'll be fine.

But ask me how he's playing... & I'll tell you, what I think.

Schaub is making plays to those guys. Sure, there are plays like the Slaton screens and the AJ screen that he just flips it out to them and lets them go to work. But there are also plays where he's putting the ball 40 yards downfield into their waiting arms. There are playaction passes where he's handling the fake so deftly that the camera guys are losing it. There are plays where he's making the right reads over and over again.

Matt Schaub is a playmaker. He still makes some stupid plays, but then so does everyone on this team.

Goatcheese
10-21-2009, 10:58 PM
May not have been the people replying in this thread, but there were sooooo many people here who gushed over Carr's stats & the "improvements" he made since Kubiak got here.


"Delusions are often functional. A motherís opinions about her childrenís beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth."

Carr's 6 yards per attempt and a buck 70 per game is terrible. Schaub's stats are top 10 in basically every category, and are only going to improve as the ugly Jets game is papered over by hundreds of passing attempts. When you think about it, Schaub's worst game of the season would have been an average game for Carr.

Matt Schaub

4th in yards per game 303.8
6th in yards per attempt 8.3
9th in completion % 65.3%
1st in Touchdown passes 14
6th in QB rating 102.7
2nd in passes over 20 yards 24
2nd in passes over 40 yards 6

There simply isn't any case that Schaub is a system QB any more than Manning, or Brees. Carr's stats are basically proof that the system can't make anyone look good. :pop:

New_Texans
10-21-2009, 11:48 PM
Ditto, we haven't had a QB play like this and do so consistently as Schaub has done.

Consistency, what makes Schaub a very good QB.

b0ng
10-21-2009, 11:51 PM
i have a bet for a bunch of diet cokes that schaub is going to the pro-bowl this year. made the bet pre-season. am i stupid for making that bet?

odds he's a pro=bowler = ?

I'd say it's pretty tough in the AFC

Peyton
Tom Terrific
Big Ben

2 out of those 3 guys are probably garunteed to go to the probowl until they retire. Schaub continues at this pace he's in, the thing is, he has to play the last 10 games to do that. That also means he's probably going to have to out-duel Peyton in one of their two meetings.

Fingers crossed.

DerekLee1
10-22-2009, 12:20 AM
Peyton
Tom Terrific
Big Ben

Peyton>Tom>Schaub>Ben

Air Canada
10-22-2009, 01:48 AM
I would like to comment on the AJ TD against the cardinals. It was an amazing play on AJ's part but they broke that play down (and others of Matt on nfl total access),and it was an excellent throw, matt had a defender in his face which forced him to side arm it around him. Their were several others plays where Matt showed great poise and accuracy under duress. On the Jones Td, Schaub wasn't in the pocket he was rolling out, it was a little low but Schaub had to set his feet and deliver the ball quickly.

This is the clip you are referring to from NFL Total Access....

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d81399165/49ers-vs-Matt-Schaub

Yeah, they look like they just heard of Schaub for the first time except for Martz....

Mike Martz has a "man crush" on Matt Schaub...:smooch:

:lol:

ObsiWan
10-22-2009, 02:16 AM
I can't believe someone said Tony Homo is a top 10 QB. What a joke.
Schaub is kind of looking like Brees in that he sees the field well, is a very accurate passer, utilizes all of his weapons and is making mostly smart decisions. His arm strength scares me: I just rewatched a very underthrown deep pass to AJ and it was pure luck that Leon Hall didn't pick it off. I've seen several of those.
Schaub will never be a Manning-like QB, I can't think of any QB who has done things like Peyton Manning- the guy's almost like a robot, but he is a very good QB and shows the potential to be an elite QB. Unless you play for a media favorite team, you gotta be very good for a couple of years before you get coronated as elite. Schaub still has work to do in that area, but so far he's held up well this season. He's taken some big shots and gotten back up.

This is my beef with Schaub. He's not as bad as Chad Pennington but there's a 40-yr old guy up in Minneapolis who can still sling it with more velocity than Matt - okay unfair example, Favre is a freak - but HWWNBN has more arm strength. Fortunately, Matt is much, much, much better in all the other areas (reading defenses, pocket awareness, work ethic, chemistry with his teammates/weapons, will to win, etc.) that make a QB successful in this here NFL.

Bottom Line:
I'm glad to have him... I defended the trade when some said they'd rather have the two draft picks back. But that doesn't keep me from seeing (for lack of a better term) his flaws. And I'm just wondering aloud if those "flaws" are significant enough to keep us from being a playoff team on a consistent basis.

mattieuk
10-22-2009, 03:40 AM
What makes me think Schaub is a bad quarterback. Well, there is one main thing. His ability to salvage plays, and make plays when he is flushed out of the pocket. I've been finding myself just accepting that there will be no completion or run once Matty moves to the left or right (which is annoying, as I think his bootleg passing isn't that bad at all). He obviously isn't the fastest guy in the world, or looks that easy running the ball (and he has never pretended to be, hes an out and out pocket passer), but...if he wants to be considered with the top league QB's he will have to find a way to start getting some yards from the plays where either pass protection has broken down, or he just needs more time.

On top of that, arm strength is a small worry, but we don't really look for 50 yard bombs all the time, and that isn't really out strength. We have receivers and an offense good enough to consistently get yardage, and there isn't too often where Matt's lack of an amazing deep threat ball really hampers us.

Another minor thing, I'm still not 100% sold on him throwing off the back foot, if he isn't set with his feet, there isn't often a receivable throw coming from him.

That said, they are all pretty minor things. Matty has been bloody amazing this year so far, and long may it continue (touch wood injury free). His leadership of the offense has been brilliant, and he has been a joy to watch most of the time. Hope he gets a pro-bowl shout, but saving injuries to the other big 3 QB's in the conference, I can't see it, as we just don't get the rep on the national stage the Pats, Colts and Steelers get.

76Texan
10-22-2009, 08:33 AM
I would like to comment on the AJ TD against the cardinals. It was an amazing play on AJ's part but they broke that play down (and others of Matt on nfl total access),and it was an excellent throw, matt had a defender in his face which forced him to side arm it around him. Their were several others plays where Matt showed great poise and accuracy under duress.

Actually, we were quite fortunate there!

We had seven to block 5.
Schaub never felt the pressure on his left.
He knows Winston was to slide out to take the blitzing safety #24 Wilson.
Slaton came up to pick up LDT (Cardinals was in a 3-4), in expectation of Brisiel taking on the LOLB #53 Haggans.
But Haggans, after charging to the outside of Brisiel, stunted to the inside and almost got to Schaub; Slaton didn't see this 'cause he had his head down trying to deliver a "BIG BLOW" to Dockett (LOL!)

It was an automatic for Schaub to slide to his left, where we had four guys (Myers, Leach, Studdard, and D.Brown) blocking two defenders.

Also, Schaub had to look off the IRLB Dansby (who had dropped back to defend the pass), which is the correct thing to do. He stepped to his left, wanting to throw the ball, but needed to wait for AJ to clear away from Dansby.

Due to this action, Haggans flew further to his right, trying to knock down the pass; therefore missing out on a possible sack or a ball batted down.
A good break for us.

In fact, Schaub's throw was a tiny little late.
In the NFL, 1/16th of a second is already considered a hair late.
That was why AJ got hit hard. Another receiver might not have been able to hang on to the ball.

But because the ball was a hair late that it didn't get knock down by Haggans.

And no, he didn't side-arm the ball.
That is Schaub natural throwing motion.
He open up wider than most (if not all) other QBs.
In this instance, however, it helped him (LOL!)

Yes, there were some plays in which Schaub stood in there to make plays, knowing he would be hit. (Why I have him in considerations for top ten), but there were also some plays in which Schaub simply took too much time in the pocket, therefore missing out on opportunities to make a first down with his feet or failing to buy an extra 1/16th or 1/8th of a sec to make a throw.

76Texan
10-22-2009, 08:46 AM
Anyway, one of the great things about the QB position that is rather unique in the pro sport arena, is that the QB can continue to improve and his play can peak quite late in his career. Their is no reason to doubt that with the coaching and Schaub's dedication to his craft he won't continue to improve and could become a great QB. While 76Texan criticisms are presented rather harshly, he makes excellent points and I do agree with most of them. I just also believe in, and expect continued improvement from him in those areas. For instance, I was excited (as was Kubiak) to see his improvisation on the max blitz in the first half when he dumped the ball to OD for a first down.

I had talked about Schaub's long winded throwing motion.
I believe it's a hindrance to his game.
It may take time to correct; it may be such a habit that he can't break.
But Phil Simms said he didn't recognize abd repair the flaw in his mechanics until late in his career.
He said he wished somebody had known and told him earlier.
He thought he would have had a better career.

Think about it, you take 1/32th of a sec longer to bring the ball back, it takes you another 1/32th of a sec longer to bring the ball forward.
The defender has more time to see where you're heading with the ball.
Those sideline passes come to mind, don't they?
The INT and the near-INT (trying to throw to AJ - and Schaub was also a little late with the ball as well on that one).
It's just like a pitcher with a long wind-up who got the bases stolen on him.

This throwing motion does not give him any extra zip on the ball.
I would even say that he looses some velocity with that wide open stance.
A little more compact throw with a good swing of the non-throwing arm should serve him well.
Think of how you can generate power swinging a baseball bat with two arms.
Now try doing it with one! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon10.gif

HOU-TEX
10-22-2009, 09:22 AM
back away from the bong

*Sigh* After reading this thread, I think I want to hit on the bong. Good Lord...:gun:

Texan JBZ
10-22-2009, 09:22 AM
:mcnugget::headhurts:I clicked on this thread expecting to see mostly glowing reviews of our QB. Instead, we've got guys critiquing everything that the guy does down to how he ties his shoelaces. I mean, give me a break. Have we become that spoiled as Texans fans already with seeing NFL-type QB play that we are now criticizing Schaub on the most minute parts of his game? How about we just trade the guy for Shaun Hill or Trent Edwards? How about Marc Bulger, JaMarcus Russell, Jason Campbell, or Jake Delhomme? You see, other teams have real issues to complain about as it pertains to their QBs. We're complaining about the guys release and that he's not flee-footed. :rolleyes: I know! Let's get David Carr back and throw him in their for a few games. It looks like some of need a reminder on how well we as fans of the Texans now have it.

Here's how Paul Kuharsky, who does the AFC South blog on ESPN.com, feels about our "average" QB:


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/1019/nfl_u_schaub_200.jpgKirby Lee/US PresswireDoes the Texans Matt Schaub deserve consideration among the top quarterbacks in the league this year?Matt Schaub (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5615) was nearly flawless in Cincinnati this past weekend and overall, he is having an excellent season. Last year wasn't really much different, but as usual, he couldn't avoid the injury bug. I am not sold that he will remain healthy for 16 (and maybe more) games this season considering his history, thinner build and just average pocket presence, but you must give credit where credit is due. Schaub is leading the league in passing touchdowns and simply put, is playing great.

You cannot discuss Schaub without talking about Andre Johnson (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4461). Johnson is the most important player on this team and makes the entire offense go. He is a wide receiver with remarkable physical characteristics and truly has no negative qualities. His presence allows secondary targets like Kevin Walter (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=4713) and Owen Daniels (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=9684), who the Texans used superbly this past weekend, to flourish. That isn't to take away from Schaub, who also has a fine pass catching back at his disposal in Steven Slaton, but it has to be noted that Schaub's supporting cast is very strong. Not to mention Slaton has done very little on the ground to date and the Texans' defense has let up a ton of points -- both of which lend to Schaub passing an awful lot.

Over the last five weeks he has averaged almost 329 passing yards and 2.8 touchdown passes per game. Schaub does do a lot of things very well. His 14-5 touchdown to interception ratio is outstanding, especially taking into consideration his 219 attempts. He is a good decision maker and understands how to best utilize his weapons at hand. Schaub reads defenses well and is a very good anticipatory thrower who can move the safety with his eyes and body language. His physical attributes, including his arm strength, is very average for the position and he isn't great at attacking the perimeter on deep out routes, but when protected, as he has been of late, he can tear a defense up with his accuracy and timing.

Not to dispute the entire premise of this article, but as we stand today, a Pro Bowl bid seems unlikely for Schaub. Peyton Manning (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=1428) is a lock for such honors and it can be argued that Ben Roethlisberger (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5536), Joe Flacco (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=11252), Tom Brady (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=2330) and Philip Rivers (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=5529) all deserve consideration for the remaining two spots before Schaub. (I am fond of what Schaub brings to the table, but I would take every one of those quarterbacks mentioned before Schaub to lead my football team.) There is no shame in that, but it does put into perspective as to where is Schaub right now in his ascending career.

76Texan
10-22-2009, 09:33 AM
What's the problem with considering Schaub for the top ten?

Who says Schaub is average?

We're talking about how he can improve so he can join the top five!

No More 8-8's
10-22-2009, 10:44 AM
What Schaub has shown me over the past few games is his ability to find the open receiver. Whether this is a product of the system, i dont care, i have learned to trust him when making throws.
Of course he does not have a rocket arm, but it doesnt matter as long the qb is smart enough recognize the smart throws. Also very happy to see him throw away the fooball if feeling any sort of pressure. Not holding onto the ball is the key to :
1) Not loosing unnessacary yards
2) Not getting hurt.

datchapin
10-22-2009, 12:04 PM
"Delusions are often functional. A motherís opinions about her childrenís beauty, intelligence, goodness, et cetera ad nauseam, keep her from drowning them at birth."

Carr's 6 yards per attempt and a buck 70 per game is terrible. Schaub's stats are top 10 in basically every category, and are only going to improve as the ugly Jets game is papered over by hundreds of passing attempts. When you think about it, Schaub's worst game of the season would have been an average game for Carr.

Matt Schaub

4th in yards per game 303.8
6th in yards per attempt 8.3
9th in completion % 65.3%
1st in Touchdown passes 14
6th in QB rating 102.7
2nd in passes over 20 yards 24
2nd in passes over 40 yards 6

There simply isn't any case that Schaub is a system QB any more than Manning, or Brees. Carr's stats are basically proof that the system can't make anyone look good. :pop:

If I remember correctly didn't we loose our starting tackle early that yr. for the yr? Spencer right? I also seem to remember that in the early part of the season Carr was considered one of the best QB's, along with Grossman (Ironic, huh.) Anyhoo, Carr, beat the Colts, something that Schaub hasn't done. Schaub wasn't ever sacked as much as Carr, including Carrs last season. Yet Carr was able to complete 22 straight completions againsts the Bills that yr. Has Schaub come close to that? IDK. Besides your comparing Schaub to damaged goods. If Carr hadn't been traumatized by all those earlier yrs. then it might be a fair comparison.

Considering the situation there is no case that Schaub isn't a system QB. Your comparing him to damaged goods and a career backup. A career backup who in 5 starts each of the last 2 seasons put up over 1400 yds. This system lends itself to putting up alot of yds. I'm sure if either of our backups went in there we wouldn't see a huge dropoff. I'm not saying I want either in there, because that would mean something bad happened, but you get what I mean. Also it's been documented that other coaches are trying to emulate our offense precisely for the reason that we can move the ball.

Another thing and this might belong in another thread, but Schaub has that high TD total because we can't seem to be able to freaking run the dang ball. 1 yd. man! 1 freaking yd in 2 games. Don't get me wrong I'll take TD's however we can get em', but really, really would like to see our running game pick up.

BigBull17
10-22-2009, 12:20 PM
If I remember correctly didn't we loose our starting tackle early that yr. for the yr? Spencer right? I also seem to remember that in the early part of the season Carr was considered one of the best QB's, along with Grossman (Ironic, huh.) Anyhoo, Carr, beat the Colts, something that Schaub hasn't done. Schaub wasn't ever sacked as much as Carr, including Carrs last season. Yet Carr was able to complete 22 straight completions againsts the Bills that yr. Has Schaub come close to that? IDK. Besides your comparing Schaub to damaged goods. If Carr hadn't been traumatized by all those earlier yrs. then it might be a fair comparison.

Considering the situation there is no case that Schaub isn't a system QB. Your comparing him to damaged goods and a career backup. A career backup who in 5 starts each of the last 2 seasons put up over 1400 yds. This system lends itself to putting up alot of yds. I'm sure if either of our backups went in there we wouldn't see a huge dropoff. I'm not saying I want either in there, because that would mean something bad happened, but you get what I mean. Also it's been documented that other coaches are trying to emulate our offense precisely for the reason that we can move the ball.

Another thing and this might belong in another thread, but Schaub has that high TD total because we can't seem to be able to freaking run the dang ball. 1 yd. man! 1 freaking yd in 2 games. Don't get me wrong I'll take TD's however we can get em', but really, really would like to see our running game pick up.

The great part about Carr's 22 completions in a row are that he had like 180 yards in that game. The pass he tied it with was for -1 yard or something like that. Schaub hasn't broken that because he actually tries to go down the field and make big plays. Dayne beat Indy, not Carr. Carr was damaged, but he also didn't put in the extra work necessary to be an elite QB in the NFL. To even compair the two is unreal. Schaub has already beat Carr's season high in TD passes, in basically 5 games. We are tops in all offensive stats, and had 1 really horrible game.

Goatcheese
10-22-2009, 12:34 PM
If I remember correctly didn't we loose our starting tackle early that yr. for the yr? Spencer right? I also seem to remember that in the early part of the season Carr was considered one of the best QB's, along with Grossman (Ironic, huh.) Anyhoo, Carr, beat the Colts, something that Schaub hasn't done. Schaub wasn't ever sacked as much as Carr, including Carrs last season. Yet Carr was able to complete 22 straight completions againsts the Bills that yr. Has Schaub come close to that? IDK. Besides your comparing Schaub to damaged goods. If Carr hadn't been traumatized by all those earlier yrs. then it might be a fair comparison.

Nobody considered Carr one of the best QBs. He spent the season throwing check downs and hoping something happened. He took sacks because he had zero pocket awareness. Completing 22 straight check downs isn't exactly impressive. Schaub throws down the field, and heads one of the leagues most explosive passing attacks.

The run game and defense beat the colts, Carr managed not to screw it up.

Considering the situation there is no case that Schaub isn't a system QB. Your comparing him to damaged goods and a career backup. A career backup who in 5 starts each of the last 2 seasons put up over 1400 yds. This system lends itself to putting up alot of yds. I'm sure if either of our backups went in there we wouldn't see a huge dropoff. I'm not saying I want either in there, because that would mean something bad happened, but you get what I mean. Also it's been documented that other coaches are trying to emulate our offense precisely for the reason that we can move the ball.

Sage played in more than just the 5 starts each season, and was a turnover machine, giving up 22 INTs in 15 games.

Is "damaged goods" the new code word for "really frakkin terrible"?

Another thing and this might belong in another thread, but Schaub has that high TD total because we can't seem to be able to freaking run the dang ball. 1 yd. man! 1 freaking yd in 2 games. Don't get me wrong I'll take TD's however we can get em', but really, really would like to see our running game pick up.

How do you think Manning, Brady and Marino put up record breaking TD numbers? It certainly wasn't because they were a grind it out running team.

:choke:

WesmanTexanfan
10-22-2009, 12:43 PM
Schaubs been beasting it lately, much props. I think we are figuring out that points not rushing yards win games. I love the run and we have to keep trying, but we don't need to try as hard as to force it.....

Anyone think the O line change helped?

silvrhand
10-22-2009, 12:58 PM
Nobody considered Carr one of the best QBs. He spent the season throwing check downs and hoping something happened. He took sacks because he had zero pocket awareness. Completing 22 straight check downs isn't exactly impressive. Schaub throws down the field, and heads one of the leagues most explosive passing attacks.



Seriously you are blaming the "lack of pocket presense" on Carr, the fact that he got destroyed by a total lack of an offensive line in the first few years here? How can you have pocket presence when the OL wasn't even creating a pocket for him to stand in?

Yes he held the ball a bit long but most rookies do as they are getting used to the game, combine that with a horrilbe offensive line and you get a lot of sacks. I remember one game they were talking about how bad it was, he was getting somewhere around 2.5 second to throw the ball before someone was on him. That's not a lot of time.

You simply can't compare Schaub and Carr due to the fact that Schaub has far more tools and a LOT better offensive line than Carr in his years here. There is no doubt the Schaub is far better QB at this time than Carr ever was in his time here.

thunderkyss
10-22-2009, 01:36 PM
On the Jones Td, Schaub wasn't in the pocket he was rolling out, it was a little low but Schaub had to set his feet and deliver the ball quickly.

Because there was no one withing 13 yards of him?? Really?

Are you saying that Schaub is as good now as he'll ever be?

If not... we're basically saying the same thing.

thunderkyss
10-22-2009, 01:47 PM
This is my beef with Schaub. He's not as bad as Chad Pennington but there's a 40-yr old guy up in Minneapolis who can still sling it with more velocity than Matt - okay unfair example, Favre is a freak - but HWWNBN has more arm strength. Fortunately, Matt is much, much, much better in all the other areas (reading defenses, pocket awareness, work ethic, chemistry with his teammates/weapons, will to win, etc.) that make a QB successful in this here NFL.

Bottom Line:
I'm glad to have him... I defended the trade when some said they'd rather have the two draft picks back. But that doesn't keep me from seeing (for lack of a better term) his flaws. And I'm just wondering aloud if those "flaws" are significant enough to keep us from being a playoff team on a consistent basis.


Good post.

My opinion to your last statement is "nah..." As long as the team helps him, we'll be fine. But if we're ever in a situation where we need Matt to carry the whole team... we'll have to sit the play-offs out that year.

Unless he continues to improve, which I have no reason to believe he won't.

& that is not anyworse than most NFL teams.

thunderkyss
10-22-2009, 01:49 PM
What makes me think Schaub is a bad quarterback.

For the record, I don't think Matt is a bad QB. I just don't think he is elite.


I think he can be elite.. just isn't.

beerlover
10-22-2009, 01:59 PM
the longer he is here the more he mirrors Kubiak, who wasn't the best of QB's but considered one of the better offensive minds for position. Schaub has better tools & the opportunity to improve on a consistant basis. He already is the best QB in franchise history :hides:

infantrycak
10-22-2009, 02:29 PM
Seriously you are blaming the "lack of pocket presense" on Carr, the fact that he got destroyed by a total lack of an offensive line in the first few years here? How can you have pocket presence when the OL wasn't even creating a pocket for him to stand in?

You know poor offensive line and locket of pocket presence are not mutually exclusive. Carr was very much more athletic than Schaub and yet clearly did not feel pressure well or slide and move around well to buy extra time. His lack of football smarts was also demonstrated by his repeatedly running out of bounds behind the line of scrimmage which counts as a sack. And that fantastically better OL you want to say Schaub had was a rookie and then washed up RT playing LT, Pitts (same), a close to washed up C, same RG and a rookie RT. It's synergetic - the OL got somewhat better and Schaub made them look better with smart play.

But if we're ever in a situation where we need Matt to carry the whole team... we'll have to sit the play-offs out that year.

Schaub has consistently put the team in position to win 4th quarter comeback games.

BigBull17
10-22-2009, 02:47 PM
Seriously you are blaming the "lack of pocket presense" on Carr, the fact that he got destroyed by a total lack of an offensive line in the first few years here? How can you have pocket presence when the OL wasn't even creating a pocket for him to stand in?


But, he never spent the extra time to do things to help his line out. Also, Schaub had almost the same oline his first year and they really didn't look to bad.

Yes he held the ball a bit long but most rookies do as they are getting used to the game, combine that with a horrilbe offensive line and you get a lot of sacks. I remember one game they were talking about how bad it was, he was getting somewhere around 2.5 second to throw the ball before someone was on him. That's not a lot of time.

It wasn't only his rookie year. It was every year that he held the ball too long. The main reason he was bad was he never got any better at what he did.

You simply can't compare Schaub and Carr due to the fact that Schaub has far more tools and a LOT better offensive line than Carr in his years here. There is no doubt the Schaub is far better QB at this time than Carr ever was in his time here.

In Carr's last year, he had damn near every weapon Schaub had. We were a really bad offense. He can't read a defense, has no internal clock, doesnt put in the extra work, and wasn't a leader. Those are things a franchise QB needs.

mattieuk
10-22-2009, 02:58 PM
For the record, I don't think Matt is a bad QB. I just don't think he is elite.


I think he can be elite.. just isn't.

Also for the record, those things don't make me think Matt is a bad QB, I was just saying they're his downsides, which would make him a bad QB if his other areas of the game weren't so damn good. As it is, I think he's a very good quarterback, and when he is fit and ready to go, as at the moment (touch wood), he is a top 10 in the league QB, no question, pushing on top 5.

No More 8-8's
10-22-2009, 03:02 PM
Newsflash Everyone:

Matt Schaub > David Carr with the Patriots O-line

FU_ImaTexan
10-22-2009, 03:10 PM
Good stuff man

thunderkyss
10-22-2009, 03:30 PM
What's the problem with considering Schaub for the top ten?

Who says Schaub is average?

We're talking about how he can improve so he can join the top five!

That's what I thought we were doing. I'm pointing out things Matt needs to do to take us to the Superbowl.

Hooston Texan
10-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Let's look at it this way:

Drew Brees' first two years as a starter (2002-03):
525-882 (59.5%), 5392 yds, 28 TDs, 31 ints, 45 sacks, 10-17 record. QB rating was 76.9 in 2002 and 67.5 in 2003.

Schaub's first two years as a starter (2007-08):
443-669 (66.2%), 5284 yds, 24 TDs, 19 ints, 39 sacks, 10-10 record. QB rating of 87.2 his first year and 92.7 his second.

Any reason that Schaub can't follow Brees' career path? Neither player relies on athleticism or a cannon for an arm. Both are diligent students of the game. Right now, Schaub is ahead of where Brees was at this stage of his career (though Schaub is three years older than Brees was in his third year as a starter). Sure, Brees didn't have the benefit of an Andre Johnson, but he did have an at-his-peak LDT in San Diego.

dalemurphy
10-22-2009, 04:45 PM
Let's look at it this way:

Drew Brees' first two years as a starter (2002-03):
525-882 (59.5%), 5392 yds, 28 TDs, 31 ints, 45 sacks, 10-17 record. QB rating was 76.9 in 2002 and 67.5 in 2003.

Schaub's first two years as a starter (2007-08):
443-669 (66.2%), 5284 yds, 24 TDs, 19 ints, 39 sacks, 10-10 record. QB rating of 87.2 his first year and 92.7 his second.

Any reason that Schaub can't follow Brees' career path? Neither player relies on athleticism or a cannon for an arm. Both are diligent students of the game. Right now, Schaub is ahead of where Brees was at this stage of his career (though Schaub is three years older than Brees was in his third year as a starter). Sure, Brees didn't have the benefit of an Andre Johnson, but he did have an at-his-peak LDT in San Diego.


I'm a big Schaub fan. That being said, I ridiculed the Chargers for starting Flutie over Brees and for drafting Rivers because it was always clear to me that Brees was a Hall of Fame caliber QB. Brees is just special. His resting heartbeat is about 40 bpm. His release is quicker and his accuracy is exceptional. He is quite short for an NFL QB but has clearly overcome that issue. As much as I love Schaub and think he could be special, it does DBrees a bit of a disservice to compare the two, I think.

I've used that kind of comparison before. I remember comparing David Carr's #'s over his first 3 seasons with Troy Aikman's #'s during his first three seasons. I argued that 2005 could be Carr's breakout season just as 1992 was for Aikman. I don't need to tell you how foolish that was.

Bryon
10-22-2009, 04:53 PM
Let's look at it this way:

Drew Brees' first two years as a starter (2002-03):
525-882 (59.5%), 5392 yds, 28 TDs, 31 ints, 45 sacks, 10-17 record. QB rating was 76.9 in 2002 and 67.5 in 2003.

Schaub's first two years as a starter (2007-08):
443-669 (66.2%), 5284 yds, 24 TDs, 19 ints, 39 sacks, 10-10 record. QB rating of 87.2 his first year and 92.7 his second.

Any reason that Schaub can't follow Brees' career path? Neither player relies on athleticism or a cannon for an arm. Both are diligent students of the game. Right now, Schaub is ahead of where Brees was at this stage of his career (though Schaub is three years older than Brees was in his third year as a starter). Sure, Brees didn't have the benefit of an Andre Johnson, but he did have an at-his-peak LDT in San Diego.


Instead of trading Schaub to the Saints, trade him to SF please.

Air Canada
10-22-2009, 04:57 PM
I'm a big Schaub fan. That being said, I ridiculed the Chargers for starting Flutie over Brees and for drafting Rivers because it was always clear to me that Brees was a Hall of Fame caliber QB. Brees is just special. His resting heartbeat is about 40 bpm. His release is quicker and his accuracy is exceptional. He is quite short for an NFL QB but has clearly overcome that issue. As much as I love Schaub and think he could be special, it does DBrees a bit of a disservice to compare the two, I think.

I've used that kind of comparison before. I remember comparing David Carr's #'s over his first 3 seasons with Troy Aikman's #'s during his first three seasons. I argued that 2005 could be Carr's breakout season just as 1992 was for Aikman. I don't need to tell you how foolish that was.

I disagree...I think Schaub can still learn and become a greater QB than he already is...That description of Brees is what he has become now, but that was not the case for a while.

I remember where Brees was earlier in his career and how he has developed since then into more of a disciplined precise QB....An elite QB.

AnthonyE
10-22-2009, 05:57 PM
If I remember correctly didn't we loose our starting tackle early that yr. for the yr? Spencer right? I also seem to remember that in the early part of the season Carr was considered one of the best QB's, along with Grossman (Ironic, huh.) Anyhoo, Carr, beat the Colts, something that Schaub hasn't done. Schaub wasn't ever sacked as much as Carr, including Carrs last season. Yet Carr was able to complete 22 straight completions againsts the Bills that yr. Has Schaub come close to that? IDK. Besides your comparing Schaub to damaged goods. If Carr hadn't been traumatized by all those earlier yrs. then it might be a fair comparison.

This record has to be the cheapest achieved record in the NFL. David Carr had 223 yards that game. Matt Schaub at one point in the Arizona game had 11 straight completions. With those 11 straight completions, Schaub had more yards that what Carr had with the 22 completions.

The debate on Carr's potential is moot now. But I don't really think he'd be all that great even if he wasn't sacked a million times. The guy would just fall down whenever he saw a pass rusher coming his way. (or really he never saw the pass rusher coming his way, amirite?) He was always like that. It's partly to blame for the record breaking seasons in sacks taken, methinks. Carr had all the tangibles, but he obviously didn't have the intangibles to lead an NFL team. Schaub has all the intangibles. He may not have a strong arm, but it's strong enough (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d804512df/Andre-Johnson-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Saints-2007). He has some physical ability, or otherwise he wouldn't be averaging out at 300 yards a game.

Schaub is a leader for this team. You can see it in each of his teammates eyes when they're interviewed about him. They believe in him.

Goatcheese
10-22-2009, 06:02 PM
This record has to be the cheapest achieved record in the NFL. David Carr had 223 yards that game. Matt Schaub at one point in the Arizona game had 11 straight completions. With those 11 straight completions, Schaub had more yards that what Carr had with the 22 completions.

The debate on Carr's potential is moot now. But I don't really think he'd be all that great even if he wasn't sacked a million times. The guy would just fall down whenever he saw a pass rusher coming his way. (or really he never saw the pass rusher coming his way, amirite?) He was always like that. It's partly to blame for the record breaking seasons in sacks taken, methinks. Carr had all the tangibles, but he obviously didn't have the intangibles to lead an NFL team. Schaub has all the intangibles. He may not have a strong arm, but it's strong enough (http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-game-highlights/09000d5d804512df/Andre-Johnson-Highlight-WK-11-vs-Saints-2007). He has some physical ability, or otherwise he wouldn't be averaging out at 300 yards a game.

Schaub is a leader for this team. You can see it in each of his teammates eyes when they're interviewed about him. They believe in him.

Schaub's physical skills are adequate, which is all that you need in this offense. His mental abilities are on par with anybody in the league who doesn't look like a fetus.

AnthonyE
10-22-2009, 06:06 PM
Schaub's physical skills are adequate, which is all that you need in this offense. His mental abilities are on par with anybody in the league who doesn't look like a fetus.

Exactly my point. :) People are just nitpicking because they can't believe we finally have a quarterback that can run an offense. They don't know how to react. LOL

ReliantTexan
10-22-2009, 06:48 PM
And no, he didn't side-arm the ball.
That is Schaub natural throwing motion.
He open up wider than most (if not all) other QBs.
In this instance, however, it helped him (LOL!)

He throws somewhat side armed but not that much typically, at least not from what I saw on his other throws. On that play his hips and head were turned towards the left side of the field when he threw down the middle, he didn't throw it across his body, which in that situation I don't think he could have and still completed the pass. It was an unorthodox throw that he was forced to make,but the accuracy was still there.

steelbtexan
10-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Instead of trading Schaub to the Saints, trade him to SF please.

No deal

You would think after suffering through the Carr era people would appreciate the fact that the Texans have a QB that is carrying a team that has no running game and a defense that is average on a good day.

Runner
10-22-2009, 10:27 PM
Has anybody noticed how Schaub spreads his fingers on the ball? Can we discuss that next?

:rolleyes:

Goatcheese
10-22-2009, 10:59 PM
Has anybody noticed how Schaub spreads his fingers on the ball? Can we discuss that next?

:rolleyes:

Schaub grips a lot of the ball, which I feel helps him throw TDs, but it makes it difficult for him to fumble.

I hope Kubes can work on that broken mechanic. :rake:

Runner
10-22-2009, 11:16 PM
Has anybody noticed how Schaub spreads his fingers on the ball? Can we discuss that next?

:rolleyes:

Schaub grips a lot of the ball, which I feel helps him throw TDs, but it makes it difficult for him to fumble.

I hope Kubes can work on that broken mechanic. :rake:

Interesting. Thanks!

ReliantTexan
10-22-2009, 11:17 PM
Because there was no one withing 13 yards of him?? Really?It doesn't matter if there wasn't any pressure, by the time he reset his feet that ball had to come out in order to get it to jones on time.

barrett
10-22-2009, 11:29 PM
Schaub's physical skills are adequate, which is all that you need in this offense. His mental abilities are on par with anybody in the league who doesn't look like a fetus.

really, really funny. thank you for that.

infantrycak
10-22-2009, 11:35 PM
Has anybody noticed how Schaub spreads his fingers on the ball? Can we discuss that next?

:rolleyes:

I once saw him tie his shoes and he does that weird fake knot thing little kids do where they don't really go around and pull through - just does a half-hitch knot. I think that is slowing him down in the pocket.

Air Canada
10-23-2009, 12:23 AM
I once saw him tie his shoes and he does that weird fake knot thing little kids do where they don't really go around and pull through - just does a half-hitch knot. I think that is slowing him down in the pocket.

Hmmmm...it's the shoes?...:thinking:


:lol:

PHAROAH
10-23-2009, 01:37 AM
Shaub has stepped up his game and he will be one of the top QB's for the next 5 seasons if he can stay healthy.

76Texan
10-23-2009, 08:44 AM
Another problem with that long-winded throwing mechanics shows itself when a defender is able to follow his passing motion and jump up to bat the ball down at the LOS.

An example is at 6:35 in the first qtr of the Bengals game.
That ball could have been intercepted and that play could have resulted in a quick six for the opponent.

infantrycak
10-23-2009, 09:10 AM
Another problem with that long-winded throwing mechanics shows itself when a defender is able to follow his passing motion and jump up to bat the ball down at the LOS.

Might want to phone that observation in to Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning who have more batted passes on fewer passing attempts. Might as well call Eli also since he is tied with Schaub and McNabb is really in trouble tied with less than half the attempts.

76Texan
10-23-2009, 09:37 AM
Might want to phone that observation in to Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning who have more batted passes on fewer passing attempts. Might as well call Eli also since he is tied with Schaub and McNabb is really in trouble tied with less than half the attempts.

I don't observe those instances so I wouldn't know the reason why!
That's their problems, and not the Texans' anyway.

dalemurphy
10-23-2009, 09:46 AM
Might want to phone that observation in to Kurt Warner and Peyton Manning who have more batted passes on fewer passing attempts. Might as well call Eli also since he is tied with Schaub and McNabb is really in trouble tied with less than half the attempts.

I think Warner and Manning both operate within the pocket on a lot of 3 step drops. That would be my guess why they have more batted balls... Plus, Warner has a bit of a 3/4 arm delivery.

Schaub's elongated delivery is a weakness. That's fine. Every QB has something imperfect. It doesn't mean he's not good and can't be great. It's just an issue for him/team to overcome. It's not like he's Randall Cunningham or Leftwich... it's just a little longer than ideal.

infantrycak
10-23-2009, 09:59 AM
Schaub's elongated delivery is a weakness. That's fine. Every QB has something imperfect. It doesn't mean he's not good and can't be great. It's just an issue for him/team to overcome. It's not like he's Randall Cunningham or Leftwich... it's just a little longer than ideal.

And I am fine with that, but it isn't resulting in an inordinate number of batted balls it appears. Plus there are other reasons for batted balls as well. I can't clearly recall McNabb's release - he's tied with Schaub with just 143 attempts.

New_Texans
10-23-2009, 10:02 AM
Schaub's release isnt THAT elongated...yeah, if it were Leftwich bad then thats something to worry about.

BigBull17
10-23-2009, 10:13 AM
Schaub's release isnt THAT elongated...yeah, if it were Leftwich bad then thats something to worry about.

Leftwich sets the ball down, stretches for safety, then picks it up, meditates, then releases.

DocBar
10-23-2009, 07:32 PM
Peyton>Tom>Schaub>Ben

If Schaub had the pocket presence of Big Ben, he'd be >. Right now, he's =<
than Big Ben right now. Plus, Schaub needs to do it for more than 11 games a season and more than a season or two.

DocBar
10-23-2009, 07:42 PM
Schaub's physical skills are adequate, which is all that you need in this offense. His mental abilities are on par with anybody in the league who doesn't look like a fetus. Manning, Brees and Big Ben aren't exactly the most "gifted" athletes in the world, but they are superb NFL QB's. Anyone remember a guy named Dan Marino or another named Bernie Kosar? Marino had a cannon with a lightening release, but actually made Kosar look like an almost gifted runner when flushed out of the pocket. The QB game has so many intangibles that you can overlook the physical drawbacks that so many great QB's have. Just look at J. Russell or our very own Rex Grossman. They have all the physical tools in the world, but lack the situational awareness that is absolutely critical for a QB to feel the pressure or see a receiver coming open. Tom Tebow might sit at the right hand of God as a college QB, but I bet he doesn't get drafted as one in the pros...unless Miami takes him. LOL

datchapin
10-23-2009, 07:54 PM
Nobody considered Carr one of the best QBs. He spent the season throwing check downs and hoping something happened. He took sacks because he had zero pocket awareness. Completing 22 straight check downs isn't exactly impressive. Schaub throws down the field, and heads one of the leagues most explosive passing attacks.

The run game and defense beat the colts, Carr managed not to screw it up.

Last sentence of my post right here was, comparing them would not be fair. Yet that is what you assume I did. I was pointing out that even a piece of garbage could accomplish some things in this system. Yes, your right my mistake, Carr wasn't considered the best, he and Grossman just had the highest QB ratings and completion percentage for an early part of the season. He took sacks, because he was damaged, plus as I said loosing a LT and having them still playing OL shuffle couldn't have possibly have anything to do with it huh? Naw, cuz Carr was just garbage. Are you serious? With the weapons we have now to what we had then your telling me there isn't a difference? First play from scrimmage was damn near a lateral pass yet A.J. took it 59 yds. The screens were working beautifully and producing yards after the catch. Are you going to sit there and tell me that our vast improvement of talent hasn't played a huge part in Schaub's production?

I really don't want to compare the 2 because it'll just frustrate me more, and I'm still trying to be happy bout our win at Cinci and keep my optimism going into this game.

The Indy game.... whatever I'm not the one that decided the QB's should be attributed W-L. Just pointing out something Carr was a part of that Schaub hasn't been. A victory over the Colts. Hoping he does it this yr. but until it happens this argument stays true.


Sage played in more than just the 5 starts each season, and was a turnover machine, giving up 22 INTs in 15 games.

Last year he played in 6 games. Threw for 1431 yds. You also fail to mention that in those games he threw 21 tds. As a backup. Almost a 1/1 td/int ratio. Coincidentially Schaub's ratio his first yr. here. Point is in this system even a backup can put up yds.

Is "damaged goods" the new code word for "really frakkin terrible"?

You say tomato I say tomato (Doesn't work in writing, but you know what I mean.)

How do you think Manning, Brady and Marino put up record breaking TD numbers? It certainly wasn't because they were a grind it out running team.

:choke:

Manning won the SB the yr. he had what? A running game. Brady, yeah running up the score with a dominant team. Marino.... wait he didn't win a SB ..... I'd rather have a dominant team than a QB who gets pretty stats any day of the week. No team dominates without balance. JMO.

Last thing, just to be clear, I was commenting on the fact that you said Schaub wasn't a system's QB. I was just pointing out he hasn't done enough or have anyone to compare to that shows he is more than just a system QB. I'm not a Schaub hater, I just call it like I see it.

Goatcheese
10-23-2009, 08:52 PM
Last sentence of my post right here was, comparing them would not be fair. Yet that is what you assume I did. I was pointing out that even a piece of garbage could accomplish some things in this system. Yes, your right my mistake, Carr wasn't considered the best, he and Grossman just had the highest QB ratings and completion percentage for an early part of the season. He took sacks, because he was damaged, plus as I said loosing a LT and having them still playing OL shuffle couldn't have possibly have anything to do with it huh? Naw, cuz Carr was just garbage. Are you serious? With the weapons we have now to what we had then your telling me there isn't a difference? First play from scrimmage was damn near a lateral pass yet A.J. took it 59 yds. The screens were working beautifully and producing yards after the catch. Are you going to sit there and tell me that our vast improvement of talent hasn't played a huge part in Schaub's production?

He was a terrible QB who put up terrible numbers. I don't see why you're arguing.

2006:

Andre Johnson Check
Kevin Walter Check
Owen Daniels Check
Steve Slaton X

Wow, he lacked a weapon.

The Indy game.... whatever I'm not the one that decided the QB's should be attributed W-L. Just pointing out something Carr was a part of that Schaub hasn't been. A victory over the Colts. Hoping he does it this yr. but until it happens this argument stays true.

:mcnugget:

Last year he played in 6 games. Threw for 1431 yds. You also fail to mention that in those games he threw 21 tds. As a backup. Almost a 1/1 td/int ratio. Coincidentially Schaub's ratio his first yr. here. Point is in this system even a backup can put up yds.

He threw for 21 TDs in 15 games, and put up a ton of yards in garbage time of blowouts against prevent defense. Against normal schemes he threw more INTs than TDs.

Manning won the SB the yr. he had what? A running game.

A defense.

Brady, yeah running up the score with a dominant team.

They were dominant because he slung the ball around. Their defense was getting old and slow, and they weren't effective running the ball.

Marino.... wait he didn't win a SB ..... I'd rather have a dominant team than a QB who gets pretty stats any day of the week. No team dominates without balance. JMO.

Good thing there's nothing keeping the Texans from having both.

Last thing, just to be clear, I was commenting on the fact that you said Schaub wasn't a system's QB. I was just pointing out he hasn't done enough or have anyone to compare to that shows he is more than just a system QB. I'm not a Schaub hater, I just call it like I see it.

Kubes runs the same offense in Houston that he did in Denver. There's over a decade of evidence that you can't put a bad QB in the system and make him a star.

ReliantTexan
10-23-2009, 10:43 PM
The Indy game.... whatever I'm not the one that decided the QB's should be attributed W-L. Just pointing out something Carr was a part of that Schaub hasn't been. A victory over the Colts. Hoping he does it this yr. but until it happens this argument stays true. Carr has also been apart of something else Schaub hasn't, 5 losing seasons. :barman:


Last year he played in 6 games. Threw for 1431 yds. You also fail to mention that in those games he threw 21 tds. As a backup. Almost a 1/1 td/int ratio. Coincidentially Schaub's ratio his first yr. here. Point is in this system even a backup can put up yds. In Sage's 15 starts he put up 3,115 yds, I haven't looked but I'd guess that's just above average for an NFL QB with that many starts, it's certaintly nothing special . And if you want we can compare Sage's six games last year to Schaub's six games this year.

Sage six starts 2008, 1431 yds, 6 tds, 10 ints

Matt six starts 2009, 1810 yds, 14 tds, 5 ints

datchapin
10-24-2009, 04:46 PM
He was a terrible QB who put up terrible numbers. I don't see why you're arguing.

2006:

Andre Johnson Check
Kevin Walter Check
Owen Daniels Check
Steve Slaton X

Wow, he lacked a weapon.

Walter played behind an agin receiver in Eric Moulds.
OD played behind Putzier.
They hardly played.

I dunno what your arguing now when I called him garbage in my previous post. You argue Carr was garbage yet he put up a 68.3 completion percentage his only yr. under Kubes. You called Schaub accurate, yet his highest completion percentage here has been 66.4. Whatever, I'll read whatever response you post, but this is the last time I'm comparing Carr and Schaub.


He threw for 21 TDs in 15 games, and put up a ton of yards in garbage time of blowouts against prevent defense. Against normal schemes he threw more INTs than TDs.

Is that all he did? I remember alot of ppl wanted to see him start before last seasons implosion. Can you explain that with your logic?

Kubes runs the same offense in Houston that he did in Denver. There's over a decade of evidence that you can't put a bad QB in the system and make him a star.

Really, I remember Denver consistently had a good running game. We've only had that once his time here. Is that really the same?

What do you want from me. You want me to say Schaub is a great QB based on what? 6 games? 5 really, cuz he played like garbage against the Jets. I'm not a Schaub hater, I don't want to dig into him. You keep pushing me I might. I want to see Schaub do well, but as of yet he hasn't shown he's more than a systems QB, much less elite. I read Texan Chicks article about blocking...

http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/10/texans_offensive_line_49er_preview.html

What do you think? Is that the mark of a great QB?

datchapin
10-24-2009, 04:55 PM
Carr has also been apart of something else Schaub hasn't, 5 losing seasons. :barman:


In Sage's 15 starts he put up 3,115 yds, I haven't looked but I'd guess that's just above average for an NFL QB with that many starts, it's certaintly nothing special . And if you want we can compare Sage's six games last year to Schaub's six games this year.

Sage six starts 2008, 1431 yds, 6 tds, 10 ints

Matt six starts 2009, 1810 yds, 14 tds, 5 ints

I hope Schaub is part of alot of new things this yr. ...... like a winning season.

Sage didn't have 6 starts last yr. He played in six games, true. However he came in with less than a half after Schaub got hurt in Minn.

Anyways, I know I'm nitpicking. Sorry.

ObsiWan
10-24-2009, 08:53 PM
Instead of trading Schaub to the Saints, trade him to SF please.

Have them offer up Patrick Willis and we'll get back to you.
:o)

...before the rest of you start screaming, remember, first we're both just kidding.

but also we still have Good Rex waiting in the wings. SF losing Willis would put a bigger dent in their offense than the damage losing Schaub would cause to our offense.

and did I mention we were both just kidding

ObsiWan
10-24-2009, 08:59 PM
We need to find a way to get Matt Schaub's brain into David Carr's body. Carr almost never got injured. Plus, he could run and has a stronger arm than Schaub. ;)

please don't mistake the last sentence as me wanting Carr over Schaub.

Actually, I've had the same thought many times myself. And he has to keep the Schaub mug so the female quasi-fans will have to go to watch him play rather than being fans because "he's just sooo cute". ugh!

thunderwolf
10-25-2009, 02:10 AM
Walter played behind an agin receiver in Eric Moulds.
OD played behind Putzier.
They hardly played.

I dunno what your arguing now when I called him garbage in my previous post. You argue Carr was garbage yet he put up a 68.3 completion percentage his only yr. under Kubes. You called Schaub accurate, yet his highest completion percentage here has been 66.4. Whatever, I'll read whatever response you post, but this is the last time I'm comparing Carr and Schaub.





alright, I'll bite. I don't know what you're thinking. First of all 2% points aren't a big enough difference to really prove anything, they're close enough to be the same. Second of all, I'd like to know a stat like yards per pass or something else because there is no way Carr did as well as Schaub in moving a team down the field. I was at the game you credit Carr for, beating the Colts, and in no way did he win that game for the Texans. I would say the Texans won in spite of Carr, or atleast Carr didn't screw it up. They ran with Ron Dayne, or had dump offs to Ron Dayne or someone else. Carr probably completed more dump off and screen passes then anyone else, that is why his completion percentage looks so amazing but he couldn't do anything else.

Imatexanfan
10-25-2009, 07:53 AM
Can we still get Vince? :mcnugget:

Thats what I'm talkin about, I've been wantin that for years now....:turtle:

Vinny
10-25-2009, 07:54 AM
Thats what I'm talkin about, I've been wantin that for years now....:turtle:
ask Doc to change yer meds please :spin:

kcdoubleeagle
10-25-2009, 04:13 PM
We do not win that game without Schaub's stellar performance.

m5kwatts
10-25-2009, 04:14 PM
Schaub was terrific despite poor blocking, and poor is being generous

76Texan
10-26-2009, 04:43 PM
I think Warner and Manning both operate within the pocket on a lot of 3 step drops. That would be my guess why they have more batted balls... Plus, Warner has a bit of a 3/4 arm delivery.

Schaub's elongated delivery is a weakness. That's fine. Every QB has something imperfect. It doesn't mean he's not good and can't be great. It's just an issue for him/team to overcome. It's not like he's Randall Cunningham or Leftwich... it's just a little longer than ideal.

I don't recall Cunningham with a long wind-up.
I hate to dig through all the game films again, LOL!
Can you recall something; a hint , just to revive my bad memory.

I will continue to disect Schaub's game tomorrow.
Today is enjoying-the-win day for me! :turtle:

dalemurphy
10-26-2009, 04:59 PM
I don't recall Cunningham with a long wind-up.
I hate to dig through all the game films again, LOL!
Can you recall something; a hint , just to revive my bad memory.

I will continue to disect Schaub's game tomorrow.
Today is enjoying-the-win day for me! :turtle:

I'm mentally referencing when he was with Philadelphia. I don't know that he had the big wind up when he was with Minnesota late in his career. But, yeah, he started it low by his hips and wound it way behind his back and then threw it with a very long step. At least, that is my memory and I'm too lazy to find footage.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 05:29 PM
I'm mentally referencing when he was with Philadelphia. I don't know that he had the big wind up when he was with Minnesota late in his career. But, yeah, he started it low by his hips and wound it way behind his back and then threw it with a very long step. At least, that is my memory and I'm too lazy to find footage.

That seems correct without having tried to find film. Opinion on McNabb's motion? It hasn't seemed long to me at least not to notice - in fact I might have called it compact if asked.

Wolf
10-26-2009, 05:30 PM
Byron Leftwich cartoon windup makes Randle's windup look like a marino pass

76Texan
10-26-2009, 05:55 PM
I'm mentally referencing when he was with Philadelphia. I don't know that he had the big wind up when he was with Minnesota late in his career. But, yeah, he started it low by his hips and wound it way behind his back and then threw it with a very long step. At least, that is my memory and I'm too lazy to find footage.

You made me dig out some tapes, LOL!

I have The Body Bag game, remember that one?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Body_Bag_Game

That was in 1990, and Cunningham started out in 1985.
So maybe it was during his early years?

But in this game, on his 40-yd+ pass and a 7-step drop, his wind-up is quite shorter than Schaub's wind-up on a 20-yd pass.

And on a 20-yd pass (counting from the LOS and on a 5-step drop), he didn't need a wind-up.
He simply threw the ball from above his ears with a compact delivery and a quick swing of the forearm.

davemundy
10-26-2009, 05:58 PM
My latest at FanHuddle.com, comments appreciated:

Schaub's critics need to let it go (http://fanhuddle.com/houstontexans/2009/10/26/schaubs-critics-need-to-let-it-go/)

76Texan
10-26-2009, 06:02 PM
Every player can use some criticism so that his head doesn't get too big! :shades: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

disaacks3
10-26-2009, 06:03 PM
Byron Leftwich cartoon windup makes Randle's windup look like a marino pass
That reminds me of feelings regardings Schaub's "mobility". He makes Dan Marino look fleet-footed at times.

The things I see keeping schaub from reaching an "Elite" QB status:

1. Mobility - Until Schaub can show me a consistent ability to deliver the ball to open receivers when rolling out, he's not in that grouping.

2. Pre-reads of the Defense - Needs to see the obvious rush coming and either audible at the line (if he's permitted) and/or know the hot read for each configuration.

3. The rush-avoidance gene - You either have it or you don't...he doesn't. It isn't as glaring as HWSNBN, but it's there nonetheless.

4. Progressions - He's getting better, but he still tends to stare-down OD & AJ and get locked-on to his primary option.

He's in the "Good" grouping now, and when given all day and a solid pocket, he's PHENOMENAL..it's how you perform those times when it breaks down that (for me) defines "greatness".

Carr Bombed
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
Every player can use some criticism so that his head doesn't get too big! :shades: http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

So that's what happened to Peyton Manning...

Gee imagine what he would look like if he wasn't dropping those playoff games early on.

Goatcheese
10-26-2009, 06:11 PM
http://forums.49ers.com/messageboard/images/smilies/facepalm.png

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 06:17 PM
1. Mobility - Until Schaub can show me a consistent ability to deliver the ball to open receivers when rolling out, he's not in that grouping.

Agreed. He needs to work on mobility throwing.

2. Pre-reads of the Defense - Needs to see the obvious rush coming and either audible at the line (if he's permitted) and/or know the hot read for each configuration.

This one is interesting. Shanahan and Kubiak are known for not allowing a lot of QB audibles. Don't know how that plays into the equation.

3. The rush-avoidance gene - You either have it or you don't...he doesn't. It isn't as glaring as HWSNBN, but it's there nonetheless.

Disagree here. I think he is pretty good but (a) isn't the most athletic person and (b) is willing to stand in and take the hit.

4. Progressions - He's getting better, but he still tends to stare-down OD & AJ and get locked-on to his primary option.

Don't agree with this one at all. Maybe you can cite some examples but my general impression is he is doing very well with his progressions and doesn't force to AJ or OD at all. Now I have said to Vinny on several occasions that I believe Schaub is the exact opposite of HWWNBN because he loves the middle of the field while the former occupant on the depth chart had reverse blinders on and couldn't see inside the hash marks.

Carr Bombed
10-26-2009, 06:38 PM
That reminds me of feelings regardings Schaub's "mobility". He makes Dan Marino look fleet-footed at times.

The things I see keeping schaub from reaching an "Elite" QB status:

1. Mobility - Until Schaub can show me a consistent ability to deliver the ball to open receivers when rolling out, he's not in that grouping.

2. Pre-reads of the Defense - Needs to see the obvious rush coming and either audible at the line (if he's permitted) and/or know the hot read for each configuration.

3. The rush-avoidance gene - You either have it or you don't...he doesn't. It isn't as glaring as HWSNBN, but it's there nonetheless.

4. Progressions - He's getting better, but he still tends to stare-down OD & AJ and get locked-on to his primary option.

He's in the "Good" grouping now, and when given all day and a solid pocket, he's PHENOMENAL..it's how you perform those times when it breaks down that (for me) defines "greatness".



1. Schaub most likely is NEVER going to be a great passer on the run....that's not his game, he's a pocket QB. Even on bootlegs he has to stop, reset, and square his shoulders to get a nice accurate ball with zip on it. It's not really a knock on him, he just doesn't have the arm strength to ge a "on the run" thrower....Schaub needs to set his feet.

2. I would like to see if he could be a good audibling QB, He's a smart guy and he's enough of a film rat, so I'm sure he could handle it if Kubiak would let him and give him the freedom. The only time we ever had a QB who was allowed to audible was when we had Carr and Capers only let him audible to running plays.

3. Actually I think Schaub does "have it", he's not the best, but I've seen him avoid rushes...especially this year. If we had a better center, he'd have more pockets to "step up in" and avoid the pass rush coming off the edge on a more consistent basis... That's about the only way "immobile QBs" can avoid the pass rush. That's how Dan Marino did it, that's how Peyton Manning does it, and that's how Tom Brady does it. Chris Myers isn't just hurting the running game. While he's solid in pass protection (much better at that than run blocking), he does get worked back towards Schaub from time to time... and the rest of the interior line isn't exactly helping either. A center that can give you a couple of extra feet up front can make a HUGE difference.

4. I don't get your knock on Schuab's progressions at all......if anything, that's his biggest strength. (that and his accuracy) The guy was been spreading the ball all over the field this year. He does a great job working through his progressions. Honestly I don't see how somebody could watch him play every week, then list that as a weakness or something he needs to improve on.


I'd put Schaub in the "very good" catagory... Right there with the top of the second tier. There's nothing wrong with that type of QB.....teams have won Superbowls with far less talent at that position. (and I'm not talking about a Dilfer type QB). If we want Schaub to take another step in his development, physically wise there isn't too much more that what we can ask him to do.....if we want him to get better the line needs to get better. (especially the interior). Imagine how great he'd be this year if he had a running game that teams feared and a running game that could bring a safety into the box from time to time.

DocBar
10-26-2009, 07:44 PM
alright, I'll bite. I don't know what you're thinking. First of all 2% points aren't a big enough difference to really prove anything, they're close enough to be the same. Second of all, I'd like to know a stat like yards per pass or something else because there is no way Carr did as well as Schaub in moving a team down the field. I was at the game you credit Carr for, beating the Colts, and in no way did he win that game for the Texans. I would say the Texans won in spite of Carr, or atleast Carr didn't screw it up. They ran with Ron Dayne, or had dump offs to Ron Dayne or someone else. Carr probably completed more dump off and screen passes then anyone else, that is why his completion percentage looks so amazing but he couldn't do anything else.YPA, TD's and INT's make my big list of QB stats. On wins and losses, they usually get too much credit and too much blame. Having said that, comparing Schaub to Carr in a less than favorable light is ludicrous. I know you didn't say that, TW. Just saying..

thunderkyss
10-26-2009, 08:56 PM
We do not win that game without Schaub's stellar performance.


Schaub is the leader of the offense. The offense scored 3 points in the second half. We only got close enough to attempt a field goal once in the second half...

Schaub was terrific despite poor blocking, and poor is being generous

I'll have to watch the game again. From memory, it looked like he played better early in the game, when the pressure was high. Second half... if I remember right... they didn't get as much pressure, and covered more.

He did get a little "play-maker" look to him early yesterday. That strike to OD, after dodging a defender... he put it on a rope. Then there was his little scramble to almost get that first down.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 09:10 PM
Schaub is the leader of the offense. The offense scored 3 points in the second half. We only got close enough to attempt a field goal once in the second half...

Not true. At the end of the game the Texans were in position for a 52 yard field goal attempt and for some reason punted to set up their last possession which ended in the INT.

CTWade
10-26-2009, 09:23 PM
A QB leading the league in TDs and yards might be good enough for some fan bases but not for us.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 09:32 PM
A QB leading the league in TDs and yards might be good enough for some fan bases but not for us.

That's misleading. He is only leading the league in yards and TD's because he has to, not because he is actually capable of doing so.

Please someone tell me they see the absurdity of that statement.

utahmark
10-26-2009, 09:33 PM
Not true. At the end of the game the Texans were in position for a 52 yard field goal attempt and for some reason punted to set up their last possession which ended in the INT.

we punted because a missed field goal gives them great field position to either tie or win the game. it was the right call.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 09:39 PM
we punted because a missed field goal gives them great field position to either tie or win the game. it was the right call.

That's fine but there isn't any argument we weren't within field goal range. Whether that was the right call is another discussion. Look at the statement I was responding to - it is irrefutable we were in field goal range at that point.

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 10:54 PM
That's fine but there isn't any argument we were within field goal range. Whether that was the right call is another discussion. Look at the statement I was responding to - it is irrefutable we were in field goal range at that point.

I guess you can say that it's in "field goal" range, but it's not a sure thing and IMHO punting was the right call.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 11:01 PM
I guess you can say that it's in "field goal" range, but it's not a sure thing and IMHO punting was the right call.

"I can say that is within field goal range." Yeah OK, pure conjecture on my part. Go look up who has the NFL record for 50+ yard field goals in a game and then come back and tell me about guessing.

Honoring Earl 34
10-26-2009, 11:09 PM
That's misleading. He is only leading the league in yards and TD's because he has to, not because he is actually capable of doing so.

Please someone tell me they see the absurdity of that statement.

It goes back to the quote in " White Men Can't Jump " about winning ugly . Some folks would rather lose pretty than win ugly and there's not much pretty about Matt Schaub's game . He makes scrambling look painful and he's not graceful but it still counts in the win column .

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 11:11 PM
"I can say that is within field goal range." Yeah OK, pure conjecture on my part. Go look up who has the NFL record for 50+ yard field goals in a game and then come back and tell me about guessing.

He's 17-30 over 50+ yard field goals as a kicker, who cares if he did it one time in a game. 56% isn't a great % to go on, so you punt it and put your defense on the field against an offense that is not known for it's great offense.

He was right, we punted, picked off alex smith trying to force a ball and we win.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 11:23 PM
It goes back to the quote in " White Men Can't Jump " about winning ugly . Some folks would rather lose pretty than win ugly and there's not much pretty about Matt Schaub's game . He makes scrambling look painful and he's not graceful but it still counts in the win column .

Fact is Manning throws an ugly ball. It usually isn't a tight spiral. He doesn't have a big arm. He'll never be considered a mobility threat. But damn at then end of the day he is accurate. And yet he will on anyone's scale be a top 5 of all time QB. That isn't to say Schaub is Manning. Point merely being strengths in one part of a game can overcome weaknesses in another.

I doubt the Texans intentionally did it but they ended up going 180 degrees. Athletic QB who couldn't avoid pressure, couldn't toss the ball to avoid a sack, couldn't see the middle of the field, couldn't make progressions. .. Nevermind that could go on for a long time. Now we are bitching about throwing motion that doesn't put him below league leader.

That is 180 degrees.

He's 17-30 over 50+ yard field goals as a kicker, who cares if he did it one time in a game. 56% isn't a great % to go on, so you punt it and put your defense on the field against an offense that is not known for it's great offense.

He was right, we punted, picked off alex smith trying to force a ball and we win.

Lifetime? Last year?, i.e. recently? Bottom line I'm betting on Kris Brown at that range. I think that was a mistake. Fair to disagree. That is my opinion.

dalemurphy
10-26-2009, 11:33 PM
Fact is Manning throws an ugly ball. It usually isn't a tight spiral. He doesn't have a big arm. He'll never be considered a mobility threat. But damn at then end of the day he is accurate. And yet he will on anyone's scale be a top 5 of all time QB. That isn't to say Schaub is Manning. Point merely being strengths in one part of a game can overcome weaknesses in another.

.

Yeah, and the fact is that large segments of the Colt fanbase and the NFL as a whole constantly criticized and complained about him until they won the Superbowl.

Most fans tend to be very critical and pessimistic. I'll never forget the first Texan game ever. We had a 19-10 lead on Dallas with less than 3 minutes left and the offense was running out the clock. Texan fans all around me were booing because we weren't throwing the ball on 3rd down... At least the pessimism on this board is combined with ignorance.

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 11:34 PM
I'm mentally referencing when he was with Philadelphia. I don't know that he had the big wind up when he was with Minnesota late in his career. But, yeah, he started it low by his hips and wound it way behind his back and then threw it with a very long step. At least, that is my memory and I'm too lazy to find footage.

I don't know if it was cause he was the first one that was really that tall and lanky as cunningham was, the difference was that he could get out of the pocket to really heave those big down the field throws.

Unfortunately Schaub doesn't have the mobility and again sucked it up the second half.. But of course people will point to his stats as if it's he's won the superbowl already..

NitroGSXR
10-26-2009, 11:36 PM
He's 17-30 over 50+ yard field goals as a kicker, who cares if he did it one time in a game. 56% isn't a great % to go on, so you punt it and put your defense on the field against an offense that is not known for it's great offense.

He was right, we punted, picked off alex smith trying to force a ball and we win.

He struggled in Pittsburg where pretty much most kicker struggle. Three Rivers (Heinz Stadium?) was on the water and water makes wind go. It's a tough place to kick.

Since coming to the comforts of Reliant, he's been pretty much money from 50+. He did struggle back in 2002 and 2003 from 50+ but is that on him or the offensive line? At Reliant, he hadn't missed from 50+ in 9 straight tries dating back to 2004.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have punted or anything. Just saying that your numbers are a little skewed there. Kris Brown is one of the best in the NFL at kicking the football in the comforts of Reliant Stadium.

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 11:36 PM
Yeah, and the fact is that large segments of the Colt fanbase and the NFL as a whole constantly criticized and complained about him until they won the Superbowl.



Why they had a right to complain for as super as Peyton was he choked in the big game, and everyone knew it. They built their offense on him, and he fell apart when it counted, he has gotten that off his back now and this year I think he'll prove it again, cause right now they look pretty unbeatable. It's like saying the FG kicker for the buffalo bills was a great kicker, but we all know him for wide right how many times?

Even as great as Dan Marino was, he had the same issues as well.

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 11:38 PM
He struggled in Pittsburg where pretty much most kicker struggle. Three Rivers (Heinz Stadium?) was on the water and water makes wind go. Since coming to the comforts of Reliant, he's been pretty much money from 50+. He did struggle back in 2002 and 2003 from 50+ but is that on him or the offensive line? At Reliant, he hadn't missed from 50+ in 9 straight tries dating back to 2004.

I'm not arguing that we shouldn't have punted or anything. Just saying that your numbers are a little skewed there. Kris Brown is one of the best in the NFL at kicking the football in the comforts of Reliant Stadium.

You guys act like I'm calling Kris Brown out or something, he's a great kicker but coaches have and play the statistics, the statistics say kick the ball and put your defense on the field.

NitroGSXR
10-26-2009, 11:39 PM
You guys act like I'm calling Kris Brown out or something, he's a great kicker but coaches have and play the statistics, the statistics say kick the ball and put your defense on the field.
Using your logic...

Inside Reliant Stadium... the statistics say that Kris Brown should be kicking the football.

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 11:44 PM
Using your logic...

Inside Reliant Stadium... the statistics say that Kris Brown should be kicking the football.

Kris Brown only missed one 50+ yard field goal when he was with the steelers.

Pittsburgh:
4-5 50+ (80%)

Houston:
13-25 50+ (52%)