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dalemurphy
10-26-2009, 11:47 PM
I don't know if it was cause he was the first one that was really that tall and lanky as cunningham was, the difference was that he could get out of the pocket to really heave those big down the field throws.

Unfortunately Schaub doesn't have the mobility and again sucked it up the second half.. But of course people will point to his stats as if it's he's won the superbowl already..

Well, I don't know what it says about Cunningham that he had that great defense around him and only won one? playoff game in his career in Philadelphia. I'd much rather have Schaub as my QB. I like QBs that are accurate passers... that's just me, I'm crrraaazy!

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 11:48 PM
Yeah, and the fact is that large segments of the Colt fanbase and the NFL as a whole constantly criticized and complained about him until they won the Superbowl.

Yeah (and I am agreeing I think) folks were talking about possibly the best QB to ever play the game (Staubach is still my choice) not being a good QB. I'm not putting Schaub in that league, I am just irritated with the over analysis on him. Every hall of fame QB has made bad decisions, bad throws, whatever. Not calling him a hall of famer. He most likely won't be. But let's not set the bar at something even HOF'er QB's don't meet. He is playing very well. There are 10 other spots that can be pointed to before his performance.

silvrhand
10-26-2009, 11:48 PM
Well, I don't know what it says about Cunningham that he had that great defense around him and only won one? playoff game in his career in Philadelphia. I'd much rather have Schaub as my QB. I like QBs that are accurate passers... that's just me, I'm crrraaazy!

I was not saying that he was a great QB, I was agree'ing with you that I remember him with that big windup as well. As for Schaub being accurate well I'm not sure I agree with that aspect. :)

Lucky
10-26-2009, 11:49 PM
It goes back to the quote in " White Men Can't Jump " about winning ugly . Some folks would rather lose pretty than win ugly and there's not much pretty about Matt Schaub's game .
Picking up an occasional 1st down on a scramble extends drives and helps win games. And that's missing from Schaub's repertoire.

And whether it's ugly or pretty, it's all about winning. And while I'm not a big fan of attributing wins and losses directly to a QB, Schaub is 14-15 as a starter here in Houston. It's premature to crown him, just yet.

dalemurphy
10-26-2009, 11:55 PM
Why they had a right to complain for as super as Peyton was he choked in the big game, and everyone knew it. They built their offense on him, and he fell apart when it counted, he has gotten that off his back now and this year I think he'll prove it again, cause right now they look pretty unbeatable. It's like saying the FG kicker for the buffalo bills was a great kicker, but we all know him for wide right how many times?

Even as great as Dan Marino was, he had the same issues as well.



Evidence at hand. Fans are very critical!

And, I'm pretty sure I've never said, "man, scott norwood was a great (anything)" But, for the sake of this argument, let's say that he made every kick in his career but he missed that one in the Superbowl. Regardless of how or why he missed it, yes he would still be a great kicker.

infantrycak
10-26-2009, 11:57 PM
Picking up an occasional 1st down on a scramble extends drives and helps win games. And that's missing from Schaub's repertoire.

Finally a legitimate criticism. Schaub is far far too hesitant on running. No he isn't Vick but there are plays he could make with his feet and just doesn't. He is going to make a throw or throw it away and forgets about just keeping it.

Goatcheese
10-26-2009, 11:59 PM
Cotton Schwab is a dangerous man. (http://msn.foxsports.com/video?vid=335c7f42-4709-4557-9cb6-b52f3e2c7d9c) Interview on the after party.

NitroGSXR
10-27-2009, 12:03 AM
Kris Brown only missed one 50+ yard field goal when he was with the steelers.

Pittsburgh:
4-5 50+ (80%)

Houston:
13-25 50+ (52%)

4-5 at Pittsburg is not accurate. He was only 3 of 4 but why so few attempts in three years? I think it's got something to do with him being 4 of 11 between 40-50 yards at Heinz field.

Also your 13-25 at Reliant is not accurate either. He was 8 of 15 with all seven misses occuring in 2002 and 2003 behind quite possibly the worst line in the history of the NFL.

I'm just saying that it was tougher to kick in Pittsburg and it's a lot easier for him to kick here in Houston.

Either way, I'll concede the argument to you because I can see there's no changing your mind. Not that there's anything wrong with it. I just don't think you're being open-minded with the numbers and you're letting them skew your argument.

silvrhand
10-27-2009, 12:29 AM
4-5 at Pittsburg is not accurate. He was only 3 of 4 but why so few attempts in three years? I think it's got something to do with him being 4 of 11 between 40-50 yards at Heinz field.

Also your 13-25 at Reliant is not accurate either. He was 8 of 15 with all seven misses occuring in 2002 and 2003 behind quite possibly the worst line in the history of the NFL.

I'm just saying that it was tougher to kick in Pittsburg and it's a lot easier for him to kick here in Houston.

Either way, I'll concede the argument to you because I can see there's no changing your mind. Not that there's anything wrong with it. I just don't think you're being open-minded with the numbers and you're letting them skew your argument.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/brownkri01.htm

Unless those #'s are wrong? I'm very familiar with the field with Pittsburgh, been to about 10 games in that stadium, it's a great stadium with horrible winds coming through the open side of the field off the river. My wife is still a steeler hard core fan :)

If it's up to me, yes I punt the ball and put my defense on the field against an offense that isn't a comeback from behind offense. Kicking the field goal and missing just adds to their momentum, and a lot less field to go.

NitroGSXR
10-27-2009, 12:56 AM
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/B/brownkri01.htm

Unless those #'s are wrong? I'm very familiar with the field with Pittsburgh, been to about 10 games in that stadium, it's a great stadium with horrible winds coming through the open side of the field off the river. My wife is still a steeler hard core fan :)

If it's up to me, yes I punt the ball and put my defense on the field against an offense that isn't a comeback from behind offense. Kicking the field goal and missing just adds to their momentum, and a lot less field to go.

I went by NFL.com and pulled up the game splits. It looks like you're looking at his total numbers. Not for when he kicked on the road of either team. I was going by his kicks inside Reliant and Three Rivers/Heinz only. It looks like we both were looking at two totally different stats. Kris was in Reliant on Sunday and 52 yards is easily within his reach inside Reliant. He's had high success there beyond the forgettable 2002 and 2003 seasons.

Given the success of our defense over the last few years and compare that to the success of Kris Brown over that same period. I would have felt comfortable giving Kris Brown the opportunity to force the 49ers to score a TD as opposed to putting it on our defense's shoulders. Especially since they were having a terrible time finding a solution to Alex Smith. In this scenario, Kris Brown's numbers are not as bad as you made them out to be.

I'm not saying that we made the wrong decision. Not at all. It worked out great for us!

ObsiWan
10-27-2009, 01:10 AM
Schaub is the leader of the offense. The offense scored 3 points in the second half. We only got close enough to attempt a field goal once in the second half...


Think back... We had two other possessions were we were moving the ball into SF territory and shot ourselves in the foot.

Drive started with 5:43 left in 3rd Qtr:
1st-10, SF47 5:28 M. Schaub rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain
2nd-8, SF45 4:52 S. Slaton rushed to the right for 7 yard gain
3rd-1, SF38 4:15 M. Schaub rushed up the middle for 2 yard gain
1st-10, SF36 3:24 S. Slaton rushed to the left for 2 yard gain. S. Slaton fumbled. D. Goldson recovered fumble
Slaton's fumble led to SF's 2nd TD.

Then, on our next possession, we were moving the ball successfully again
Houston - 12:35
1st-10, HOU15 12:35 M. Schaub passed to A. Johnson down the middle for 44 yard gain
1st-10, SF41 11:50 M. Schaub passed to C. Brown to the left for 4 yard gain
2nd-6, SF37 11:12 M. Schaub incomplete pass to the right
3rd-6, SF37 11:05 M. Schaub passed to O. Daniels to the right for 8 yard gain
1st-10, SF29 10:25 C. Brown rushed up the middle for 3 yard gain
2nd-7, SF26 9:46 M. Schaub passed to O. Daniels down the middle for 15 yard gain
1st-10, SF11 9:04 C. Brown rushed to the left for no gain
2nd-10, SF11 8:21 M. Schaub sacked by A. Brooks
3rd-19, SF20 7:45 S. Slaton rushed to the left for 3 yard gain. HOU committed 15 yard penalty
3rd-31, SF32 7:16 K. Brown kicked a 50-yard field goal
when, on successive plays, Schaub took a sack instead of getting rid of the ball (he definitely held the ball too long this time, so this one's on him); and that moved us from the SF 11 back to their 20.

Next play Duane Brown got called for an 15-yd unneccessary roughness penalty (which I still don't understand). This moved us back to about the 35.

Before those two plays we were in the redzone in position to get six.

My point is we actually moved the ball in the 2nd half. We had the beginnings of one good drive and another pretty solid drive going in the 2nd half and we shot ourselves in the foot both times. So except for that sack, Schaub did his job yesterday. You can't put Slaton's drive-ending fumble or that funny-bunny 15-yd penalty on Schaub.

76Texan
10-27-2009, 08:20 AM
3. Actually I think Schaub does "have it", he's not the best, but I've seen him avoid rushes...especially this year. If we had a better center, he'd have more pockets to "step up in" and avoid the pass rush coming off the edge on a more consistent basis... A center that can give you a couple of extra feet up front can make a HUGE difference.

How many times?
Cites some examples please!

HoustonFrog
10-27-2009, 08:28 AM
All this Schaub talk begs the question...if the guy went down and the team went into a tailspin, would they just bring everyone back next year because of his success up until this point? Knock on wood and I'm not trying to jinx anything, but it just occurred to me this morning how well he has played while staying upright.

Texan_Bill
10-27-2009, 08:29 AM
All this Schaub talk begs the question...if the guy went down and the team went into a tailspin, would they just bring everyone back next year because of his success up until this point? Knock on wood and I'm not trying to jinx anything, but it just occurred to me this morning how well he has played while staying upright.

:voodoo:

76Texan
10-27-2009, 08:30 AM
Now we are bitching about throwing motion that doesn't put him below league leader.



.That throwing motion has led to INTs, near INTs, batted balls that were near INT.

If you don't think it's important, well, power to ya'!

HoustonFrog
10-27-2009, 08:33 AM
:voodoo:

Sorry, it's in my head now because it used to be the elephant in the room and this year it hasn't been. So this morning when I thought about it I was kind of struck by how that would affect things...obviously....I'll say a rosary TB. :)

76Texan
10-27-2009, 08:36 AM
All this Schaub talk begs the question...if the guy went down and the team went into a tailspin, would they just bring everyone back next year because of his success up until this point? Knock on wood and I'm not trying to jinx anything, but it just occurred to me this morning how well he has played while staying upright.

He's playing well overall, and that is why I put him in considerations for top 10 QBs in the league.

Texan_Bill
10-27-2009, 09:12 AM
Sorry, it's in my head now because it used to be the elephant in the room and this year it hasn't been. So this morning when I thought about it I was kind of struck by how that would affect things...obviously....I'll say a rosary TB. :)

http://www.stmichaelshoughton.net/images/pray_uplifted_hands_hg_clr.gif

infantrycak
10-27-2009, 09:42 AM
That throwing motion has led to INTs, near INTs, batted balls that were near INT.

If you don't think it's important, well, power to ya'!

You can say the throwing motion has led to those things. I can say future hall of fame QB's have similar or higher stats so your causation argument is FOS. I like my argument better. This is like observing a QB has a side arm motion and then trying to attribute every ill result to that. It is simply nonsensical. His delivery could be contributing to all those things, but if the net result is excellent results compared to the competition then it is silly to complain about it. Peyton Manning throws an ugly but accurate ball. I'm not going to complain about how much the ball wobbles for him either.

HoustonFrog
10-27-2009, 09:55 AM
You can say the throwing motion has led to those things. I can say future hall of fame QB's have similar or higher stats so your causation argument is FOS. I like my argument better. This is like observing a QB has a side arm motion and then trying to attribute every ill result to that. It is simply nonsensical. His delivery could be contributing to all those things, but if the net result is excellent results compared to the competition then it is silly to complain about it. Peyton Manning throws an ugly but accurate ball. I'm not going to complain about how much the ball wobbles for him either.

Billy Kilmer threw the ugliest ball I've ever seen and he won some games.

76Texan
10-27-2009, 09:56 AM
You can say the throwing motion has led to those things. I can say future hall of fame QB's have similar or higher stats so your causation argument is FOS. I like my argument better. This is like observing a QB has a side arm motion and then trying to attribute every ill result to that. It is simply nonsensical. His delivery could be contributing to all those things, but if the net result is excellent results compared to the competition then it is silly to complain about it. Peyton Manning throws an ugly but accurate ball. I'm not going to complain about how much the ball wobbles for him either.

Fact:
The longer it takes for a QB to deliver the ball, the more time a defender has to read his motion and react to the throw.

Probability and statistics:
When all other variables are held constant, the logical deduction is that the defender has a better chance at making a play on the ball.

It's that simple! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

NOTE: I never attribute all the ill results purely on this point!

infantrycak
10-27-2009, 10:03 AM
Fact:
The longer it takes for a QB to deliver the ball, the more time a defender has to read his motion and react to the throw.

Probability and statistics:
When all other variables are held constant, the logical deduction is that the defender has a better chance at making a play on the ball.

It's that simple! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

NOTE: I never attribute all the ill results purely on this point!

And the net result is? - leader in yards and TD's.

It's that simple! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

Runner
10-27-2009, 10:08 AM
I'm happy with Schaub's results so far. If his good health continues, I foresee being satisfied with his results for the year.

sbalderrama
10-27-2009, 10:31 AM
Every hall of fame QB has made bad decisions, bad throws, whatever.

I watched Elway his entire career. The number of WTF moments was huge, especially early on. But you also saw the "OMG did you see that" moments to counterbalance it. Elway was probably his best when age and injury to his bicep basically forced him to become more of a "game manager", albeit one who could still bring on a miracle when needed. Basically, there is no such thing as a QB without bad decisions or interceptions. Defenses get paid too, and their job is to create confusion that leads to that stuff. The real minor miracle is when Kubiak somehow managed to get Jake Plummer to go 200something attempts without an interception back in Denver. Plummer was helped out by some stone-handed defenders though.

silvrhand
10-27-2009, 10:44 AM
And the net result is? - leader in yards and TD's.

It's that simple! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

You guys crack me up, you point to the stats like he's already won the superbowl..

Goatcheese
10-27-2009, 10:50 AM
You guys crack me up, you point to the stats like he's already won the superbowl..

Winning the Super bowl is a team effort, or Manning would win it every year, 20 years in a row.

When you are top 5 in almost every statistical category, and top 10 in the handful that you're not, then you're an elite QB in the NFL. You don't trip and fall into 16 TDs in 7 games. You get there because you are really, really good.

BigBull17
10-27-2009, 10:50 AM
You guys crack me up, you point to the stats like he's already won the superbowl..

The funny part is people who think he's a dog who needs to be put down, or that he's having an "ok" year.

76Texan
10-27-2009, 11:23 AM
And the net result is? - leader in yards and TD's.

It's that simple! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

I honestly do not understand this line of reasoning.
You are saying that Schaub is the leader in yards and TD because of that long wind-up? http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon12.gif

BTW, that statement of yours contains suppressed evidents (directly) as well as selective observations (inderectly).

Manning had only played 6 games; so did Drew Brees.
Manning is the YPG leader as well as TDPG leader (Brees is second).

And who knows the actual YAC each QB has benefited so far, as well as the numbers of TDs due to the extra efforts of the receivers/RBs.

Stats are for fantasy players! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

silvrhand
10-27-2009, 11:48 AM
The funny part is people who think he's a dog who needs to be put down, or that he's having an "ok" year.

I've never said he's a dog, I just don't think he's good enough to get us deep into the playoffs..

NitroGSXR
10-27-2009, 11:52 AM
I've never said he's a dog, I just don't think he's good enough to get us deep into the playoffs..

Oh he is too! It's our run game that's going to hamper us. That's sort of out of Schaub's control.

silvrhand
10-27-2009, 11:59 AM
Oh he is too! It's our run game that's going to hamper us. That's sort of out of Schaub's control.

To get into the playoffs we are going to face defenses that are going to pressure and send the blitz at schaub.

- pittsburgh
- ravens
- jets
- new england
- colts

Our keys to winning these games are simply in Schaub. Until we can prove that he can throw and beat these teams, and carry the offense on his shoulders then we'll never make it deep into the playoffs. I don't like our chances offensively against those teams until he improves.

We'll see soon enough and hopefully I'll be proven wrong, then I'll gladly pull up and eat my piece of humble pie.

P.S. What's with all the personal attacks... Seriously they are getting old calling people stupid, put down with the dogs just cause they don't agree with you doesn't mean you get to attack them. What's wrong with having a difference in opinion?

NitroGSXR
10-27-2009, 12:22 PM
To get into the playoffs we are going to face defenses that are going to pressure and send the blitz at schaub.

- pittsburgh
- ravens
- jets
- new england
- colts

Our keys to winning these games are simply in Schaub. Until we can prove that he can throw and beat these teams, and carry the offense on his shoulders then we'll never make it deep into the playoffs. I don't like our chances offensively against those teams until he improves.

We'll see soon enough and hopefully I'll be proven wrong, then I'll gladly pull up and eat my piece of humble pie.

P.S. What's with all the personal attacks... Seriously they are getting old calling people stupid, put down with the dogs just cause they don't agree with you doesn't mean you get to attack them. What's wrong with having a difference in opinion?

Pittsburg and Baltimore are NFC teams. We won't face them in the playoffs.

No way the Jets make the playoffs. They miss Kris Jenkins too much. Sanchez now is getting some gametape out there and teams are gameplanning for him a little better. If they DO go in, I think we'll be able to counter better than we did for the season opener.

New England and the Colts are a little funny. I really don't want to face either one but that's more of a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning factor. That's a significant factor which generally results in the opponents' demise.

I don't think Schaub has shown any signs of slowing down this season and he's lost his run game. Until the Colts game... we'll have something a bit more tangible to go with.

Say what? I never attacked you personally? I thought we were having a really good discussion? I'm very confused by your statement here. Did I offend you somewhere? I really hope not. I just want to talk football. I like hearing your (others) thoughts and I like throwing mine out there as well.

JB
10-27-2009, 12:28 PM
Pittsburg and Baltimore are NFC teams. We won't face them in the playoffs.


What?:confused:

NitroGSXR
10-27-2009, 12:30 PM
What?:confused:

Uh? Did I blunder? LMAO. I sure did.

My apologies. Wow. That was a bad one by me.

silvrhand
10-27-2009, 12:44 PM
Say what? I never attacked you personally? I thought we were having a really good discussion? I'm very confused by your statement here. Did I offend you somewhere? I really hope not. I just want to talk football. I like hearing your (others) thoughts and I like throwing mine out there as well.

No, not you sorry I was trying to not be specific to avoid starting a war, just a few posts that seem to go to personal name calling attacks cause I don't start carving the bust of Schaub for the Hall of Fame already. :)

HOU-TEX
10-27-2009, 01:39 PM
Oh he is too! It's our run game that's going to hamper us. That's sort of out of Schaub's control.

^^This^^

Our running game, secondary and pass rush are the areas we need to be nitpicking. Our passing game is the primary reason we've been able to win the games we've won.

:shrug:

BigBull17
10-27-2009, 01:45 PM
Oh he is too! It's our run game that's going to hamper us. That's sort of out of Schaub's control.

This

BigBull17
10-27-2009, 01:47 PM
Pittsburg and Baltimore are NFC teams. We won't face them in the playoffs.

No way the Jets make the playoffs. They miss Kris Jenkins too much. Sanchez now is getting some gametape out there and teams are gameplanning for him a little better. If they DO go in, I think we'll be able to counter better than we did for the season opener.

New England and the Colts are a little funny. I really don't want to face either one but that's more of a Tom Brady/Peyton Manning factor. That's a significant factor which generally results in the opponents' demise.

I don't think Schaub has shown any signs of slowing down this season and he's lost his run game. Until the Colts game... we'll have something a bit more tangible to go with.

Say what? I never attacked you personally? I thought we were having a really good discussion? I'm very confused by your statement here. Did I offend you somewhere? I really hope not. I just want to talk football. I like hearing your (others) thoughts and I like throwing mine out there as well.

Yeah, I think the 1st game was just a complete cluster **** . If we played again, it would be a totally different game, IMO.

disaacks3
10-27-2009, 02:15 PM
Disagree here. I think he is pretty good but (a) isn't the most athletic person and (b) is willing to stand in and take the hit.



Don't agree with this one at all. Maybe you can cite some examples but my general impression is he is doing very well with his progressions and doesn't force to AJ or OD at all. Now I have said to Vinny on several occasions that I believe Schaub is the exact opposite of HWWNBN because he loves the middle of the field while the former occupant on the depth chart had reverse blinders on and couldn't see inside the hash marks.

My take on watching Schaub over the course of his Texans career is that when the pocket "shifts", rather than breaks down entirely, he doesn't necessarily step into the center of the new pocket. Standing your ground is good as long as it won't impede the throwing motion...when it will, it's time to scoot, rather than force a bad throw.

He looks strangely more comfortable moving and throwing when the pocket shifts to his left, rather than his right (this is a**-backwards for most right-handed throwers). This also applies when rolling out - In this particular case, I think it's because throwing to his left doesn't require that he square his shoulders to the line before releasing the ball. When Schaub misses on a Right rollout, it's almost always to the right (were not talking OOB throwaways here)...and I can't easily attribute it to anything more than squaring the shoulders.

On the progressions - He's GREAT without pocket breakdown or without an impending rush, but he seems to look for the slant to AJ as a hot read even when the ubiquitous RB (or TE) in the flat for a screen may be wide open. In those cases, I've seen his head in the "locked forward" mode and no looks left OR right.

I'm not knocking how well he's doing this year in the least, but let's be honest in that his stats are due (at least in part) to a near complete lack of an effective running game. That he's good enough to overcome that and make us an EFFECTIVE pass-first offense puts him in the "very good" category this year. When he can be effective "creating plays" and / or scrambling, then he's added the tool(s) that will make him Elite IMHO.

76Texan
10-27-2009, 02:15 PM
^^This^^

Our running game, secondary and pass rush are the areas we need to be nitpicking. Our passing game is the primary reason we've been able to win the games we've won.

:shrug:

There's no nitpicking here.
It's a discussion to see whether Schaub deserves to be in the top ten.

You guys are being too defensive! http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/icons/icon7.gif

DexmanC
10-27-2009, 02:24 PM
The loss to the Jets was overrated in its magnitude. If you remember, we
couldn't move the ball on them early in the game. Our defense held the
game close for over 3 quarters. The ONE drive we were moving the ball
towards a touchdown to get us in the game, there was a HUGE f-up that
KILLED ALL MOMENTUM for the Texans. Do you remember what the f-up
was?

I'll allow someone to answer.

Hint: The defense saved our asses in two consecutive games, although the f-up DID happen
in our last two games.

DexmanC
10-27-2009, 02:35 PM
My take on watching Schaub over the course of his Texans career is that when the pocket "shifts", rather than breaks down entirely, he doesn't necessarily step into the center of the new pocket. Standing your ground is good as long as it won't impede the throwing motion...when it will, it's time to scoot, rather than force a bad throw.

He looks strangely more comfortable moving and throwing when the pocket shifts to his left, rather than his right (this is a**-backwards for most right-handed throwers). This also applies when rolling out - In this particular case, I think it's because throwing to his left doesn't require that he square his shoulders to the line before releasing the ball. When Schaub misses on a Right rollout, it's almost always to the right (were not talking OOB throwaways here)...and I can't easily attribute it to anything more than squaring the shoulders.

On the progressions - He's GREAT without pocket breakdown or without an impending rush, but he seems to look for the slant to AJ as a hot read even when the ubiquitous RB (or TE) in the flat for a screen may be wide open. In those cases, I've seen his head in the "locked forward" mode and no looks left OR right.

I'm not knocking how well he's doing this year in the least, but let's be honest in that his stats are due (at least in part) to a near complete lack of an effective running game. That he's good enough to overcome that and make us an EFFECTIVE pass-first offense puts him in the "very good" category this year. When he can be effective "creating plays" and / or scrambling, then he's added the tool(s) that will make him Elite IMHO.

I bolded that one word, because it explains EXACTLY why Schaub does
not step up. It's so RARE for Myers not be pushed into the backfield, that
Schaub has grown accustomed to moving LATERALLY to avoid a rush. Get
him a center that doesn't move BACKWARD on 3/4's of his snaps, then
you'll see Schaub start stepping UP. Watch the games, bro. Pay attention
to the pocket before you criticize Schaub's presence therein.

76Texan
10-27-2009, 02:39 PM
I bolded that one word, because it explains EXACTLY why Schaub does
not step up. It's so RARE for Myers not be pushed into the backfield, that
Schaub has grown accustomed to moving LATERALLY to avoid a rush. Get
him a center that doesn't move BACKWARD on 3/4's of his snaps, then
you'll see Schaub start stepping UP. Watch the games, bro. Pay attention
to the pocket before you criticize Schaub's presence therein.

Bring the references! The plays and the times!

Better yet, I will start a thread!

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2009, 03:01 PM
All this ugly pass stuff made me thing of this video and it's kicking Dallas .

http://www.bangcartoon.com/2008/ifsandbutts.htm

disaacks3
10-27-2009, 08:51 PM
I bolded that one word, because it explains EXACTLY why Schaub does
not step up. It's so RARE for Myers not be pushed into the backfield, that
Schaub has grown accustomed to moving LATERALLY to avoid a rush. Get
him a center that doesn't move BACKWARD on 3/4's of his snaps, then
you'll see Schaub start stepping UP. Watch the games, bro. Pay attention
to the pocket before you criticize Schaub's presence therein. If there's a game in Texans history that you think I haven't seen, please enlighten me. Your response indicates that Myers is almost always pushed back into Schaub (see word: Rare). While it happens more frequently than I'd like, it isn't 90+% of the time.

If you disagree with my evaluation - all fine & good, but please save me from another "watch the games before you criticize" B.S.

Honoring Earl 34
10-27-2009, 08:56 PM
If there's a game in Texans history that you think I haven't seen, please enlighten me. Your response indicates that Myers is almost always pushed back into Schaub (see word: Rare). While it happens more frequently than I'd like, it isn't 90+% of the time.

If you disagree with my evaluation - all fine & good, but please save me from another "watch the games before you criticize" B.S.

I think Schaub went from forcing something to holding the ball to long waiting for someone to come open . I guess the next step is taking what you can get .

drunkcookie
10-27-2009, 09:01 PM
While it happens more frequently than I'd like, it isn't 90+% of the time.
[/I]

would you say 75%?

I would say 75%, and that would be 3/4 of the snaps as Dexman said...

Shaub isn't perfect but he's done a really good job this year and I'm quite impressed... some may say it's because of the lack of a good running game that he's done so well, but I'd argue his lack of a good running game makes his performance thus far even more impressive...

infantrycak
10-27-2009, 11:27 PM
If there's a game in Texans history that you think I haven't seen, please enlighten me. Your response indicates that Myers is almost always pushed back into Schaub (see word: Rare). While it happens more frequently than I'd like, it isn't 90+% of the time.

If you disagree with my evaluation - all fine & good, but please save me from another "watch the games before you criticize" B.S.

I know darn well you watch every game. That said, I disagree and think Schaub is better than average with small area mobility and is very good with his awareness of when to dump the ball to avoid the sack. Nope he isn't and will never be the most athletic and won't be breaking off any 20 yard runs anytime soon but neither will Peyton (not an analogy folks).

One of the worst holding the ball offenders in the league is Big Ben but he gets saway with it because of his escapability.

jppaul
10-28-2009, 12:26 AM
I think Schaub went from forcing something to holding the ball to long waiting for someone to come open . I guess the next step is taking what you can get .

He did a very good job of that in the Cincinnati game, dumping to Slaton frequently and to great effect. Maybe contingent upon the game plan, I haven't seen a whole lot of underneath recievers on those sacks, seems like they were running games on the the deep secondary when there were sacks.

So his next step is to get rid of it.

DerekLee1
10-28-2009, 12:35 AM
I wish he'd go to Don Beebe's House of Speed school in the offseason and learn how to run just a LITTLE. Damn if it doesn't drive me nuts when he has a wide open field and nobody open and clogs his way forward for two yards before sliding down in the fetal. He's a tremendous pocket passer, but man I wish he had a little run in him occasionally.

m5kwatts
11-01-2009, 11:55 PM
It needs to be noted:

Schaub won this game without Owen Daniels and with Buffalo's coverage taking Andre out of the game

He didn't throw a touchdown but by no means did he have a poor game. He was terrific in the second half and continued his MVP pace.

Jackie Chiles
11-01-2009, 11:58 PM
It needs to be noted:

Schaub won this game without Owen Daniels and with Buffalo's coverage taking Andre out of the game

He didn't throw a touchdown but by no means did he have a poor game. He was terrific in the second half and continued his MVP pace.

Agreed. Moats was the story of the game offensively but Matt was almost automatic in the 2nd half on third down conversions. We aren't in position to score the ball on the ground without his arm.

infantrycak
11-02-2009, 08:28 AM
Schaub won this game without Owen Daniels and with Buffalo's coverage taking Andre out of the game

My how high our standards have become when 6 receptions for 63 yards is being taken out of the game (and he was hit for another 25 yd strike and didn't make the reception).

GlassHalfFull
11-02-2009, 08:45 AM
It needs to be noted:

Schaub won this game without Owen Daniels and with Buffalo's coverage taking Andre out of the game

He didn't throw a touchdown but by no means did he have a poor game. He was terrific in the second half and continued his MVP pace.

I have a feeling Schaub himself would take exception to this post.

m5kwatts
11-02-2009, 11:39 AM
My how high our standards have become when 6 receptions for 63 yards is being taken out of the game (and he was hit for another 25 yd strike and didn't make the reception).

Most teams would take "limiting" Andre to those numbers if you asked them before the game

But its true the standards with him are higher than any receiver in the NFL, with Andre the expectation is 100 yards and atleast a touchdown if not you've done a pretty good job on defense.

BigBull17
11-02-2009, 12:20 PM
My how high our standards have become when 6 receptions for 63 yards is being taken out of the game (and he was hit for another 25 yd strike and didn't make the reception).

He also didn't make the catch that turned into the 2nd pic. Schaub put it on his back shoulder, and he's too good not to make that catch.

76Texan
11-02-2009, 01:08 PM
He also didn't make the catch that turned into the 2nd pic. Schaub put it on his back shoulder, and he's too good not to make that catch.

Sorry, but that one is on Schaub!
There's no need for excuse, please!

HOU-TEX
11-02-2009, 01:10 PM
Sorry, but that one is on Schaub!
There's no need for excuse, please!

I agree that it was a misplaced ball by Schaub, but AJ makes that catch 8 of 10 times, at least. IMO, it's on the both of them.