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Yankee_In_TX
10-14-2009, 09:46 AM
Maybe someone smarter than me can explain this:

The coaching staff believes that the goal line/short yard package is our best bet to get 1 yard (stated by them numerous times).

AND

Coach Matthews says yes Myers may get pushed around by 300 lbs. nose tackles, but he's not supposed to stop them, he is supposed to hit/chip and get to the second level. Our linemen aren't big, they're finnesse players.


???? :spin:

Yankee_In_TX
10-14-2009, 09:49 AM
Sorry, that may be a paradox not an oxymoron...

Blake
10-14-2009, 09:54 AM
I guess they are saying that Chris is not going to blow his player back, but should be able to hold his ground so that a fullback and big runningback can punch it in.

I dont know... I got nothing...

badboy
10-14-2009, 09:58 AM
It is the Jedi mind trick thingy and it is now turned on you. Don't believe what you see but what the coaches tell you you see. Hey my dad told me this years ago.

BrandonLwowski
10-14-2009, 10:10 AM
I played o-line than ran the one cut and go so here is the defintion of a chip block:

When the o-line is small they run a block called a chip block. Lets say we are running a zone to the right, and there is a d-linemen on the centers left. The centers job is to hit the dlineman until his leftguard comes and takes over. the leftguard "bumps" the center off where he climbs to the next level and blocks a linebacker. This block is good for smaller linemen cause you get help for that split second stopping the bullrush giving you time to get your head across and run. The problem is this doesnt work on the goalline. On the goalline you just duck your head and drive...if you try to chip block the linebacker will be in the runningbacks lap.

CloakNNNdagger
10-14-2009, 10:10 AM
Maybe someone smarter than me can explain this:

The coaching staff believes that the goal line/short yard package is our best bet to get 1 yard (stated by them numerous times).

AND

Coach Matthews says yes Myers may get pushed around by 300 lbs. nose tackles, but he's not supposed to stop them, he is supposed to hit/chip and get to the second level. Our linemen aren't big, they're finnesse players.


???? :spin:

What's the second level in the end zone?:spin:

michaelm
10-14-2009, 10:15 AM
What's the second level in the end zone?:spin:

That's where you'll find Chris Brown's fumble...

76Texan
10-14-2009, 10:32 AM
Our short yardage run is not supposed to be behind a lineman; it's supposed to be between two linemen.

Case in point: The Chris Brown's run earlier in the game.
He followed Leach who got upfield between Myers and Studdard.
Studdard was blown back by a mile, but it did not matter!

The problem with the second run was that Studdard allowed his man to slant inside and cut off the running lane for Leach and the RB.

dskillz
10-14-2009, 10:36 AM
I played o-line than ran the one cut and go so here is the defintion of a chip block:

When the o-line is small they run a block called a chip block. Lets say we are running a zone to the right, and there is a d-linemen on the centers left. The centers job is to hit the dlineman until his leftguard comes and takes over. the leftguard "bumps" the center off where he climbs to the next level and blocks a linebacker. This block is good for smaller linemen cause you get help for that split second stopping the bullrush giving you time to get your head across and run. The problem is this doesnt work on the goalline. On the goalline you just duck your head and drive...if you try to chip block the linebacker will be in the runningbacks lap.

Very good explanation. Unfortunately, it shows that the call at the goalline was not the smartest they could have made. The scenario you described is exactly what happened.

Yankee_In_TX
10-14-2009, 10:36 AM
Our short yardage run is not supposed to be behind a lineman; it's supposed to be between two linemen.


So in theory our smallish linemen are craftily going to use their specially taught skills to open up a run lane with about 16 guys crammed into a 2 yard by 4 yard box?

BrandonLwowski
10-14-2009, 10:38 AM
Very good explanation. Unfortunately, it shows that the call at the goalline was not the smartest they could have made. The scenario you described is exactly what happened.

i wasn't disagreeing just explaining what a chipblock was

HoustonFrog
10-14-2009, 10:45 AM
It really is a double problem...the line and RBs who can't run in tight spaces. Guys like Emmitt and others who were TD machines could find the creases and get the push even in a pile. These RBs hot the pile and stop. So the line isn't getting it done but you need a back that can make something out of it too.

Yankee_In_TX
10-14-2009, 10:48 AM
It really is a double problem...the line and RBs who can't run in tight spaces. Guys like Emmitt and others who were TD machines could find the creases and get the push even in a pile. These RBs hot the pile and stop. So the line isn't getting it done but you need a back that can make something out of it too.

Soooooo, it should feel like kissing your sister every time a coach says that's their best goal line/1 yard play?

76Texan
10-14-2009, 10:53 AM
So in theory our smallish linemen are craftily going to use their specially taught skills to open up a run lane with about 16 guys crammed into a 2 yard by 4 yard box?

Each play will require different blocking techniques; I have no idea why Kubiak and/or Shannahan likes this play so much they ran it at least 3 times, successfully only once.
Personally, I don't prefer this call, but what can I do?

I also agree with Frog that we're better off with a back that can find the crease; and that would be either Slaton or Moats.

Yankee_In_TX
10-14-2009, 10:55 AM
Each play will require different blocking techniques; I have no idea why Kubiak and/or Shannahan likes this play so much they ran it at least 3 times, successfully only once.
Personally, I don't prefer this call, but what can I do?

I also agree with Frog that we're better off with a back that can find the crease; and that would be either Slaton or Moats.

Oh, I wasn't mocking you, sorry if it sounded that way.

76Texan
10-14-2009, 11:08 AM
Oh, I wasn't mocking you, sorry if it sounded that way.

It's alright even if you did! :smiliedance:

I like to mock my friends; and I enjoy them return the favor! :turtle:

Runner
10-14-2009, 11:29 AM
Our short yardage run is not supposed to be behind a lineman; it's supposed to be between two linemen.


So in theory our smallish linemen are craftily going to use their specially taught skills to open up a run lane with about 16 guys crammed into a 2 yard by 4 yard box?

Maybe the Texans should just trot out their regular offense every time and make the defense cover different options rather than announce to the world Chris Brown is going to run up the middle.

Yankee_In_TX
10-14-2009, 11:31 AM
Maybe the Texans should just trot out their regular offense every time and make the defense cover different options rather than announce to the world Chris Brown is going to run up the middle.

I cried when someone (you?) posted the quote from the AZ D Lineman something like "We saw that play previously, so we knew exactly what was coming."

badboy
10-14-2009, 11:49 AM
What's the second level in the end zone?:spin:The cheerleaders' lap and it is a very good level to strive for.

Texan_Bill
10-14-2009, 11:52 AM
What's the second level in the end zone?:spin:

Exactly.

OTOH, when they are playing in your backfield, I guess the second level would actually be the line of scrimmage. :thinking:

CloakNNNdagger
10-14-2009, 11:58 AM
It really is a double problem...the line and RBs who can't run in tight spaces. Guys like Emmitt and others who were TD machines could find the creases and get the push even in a pile. These RBs hot the pile and stop. So the line isn't getting it done but you need a back that can make something out of it too.

We need to make a "Fridge" out of our own Okam.:tiphat:

76Texan
10-14-2009, 12:01 PM
We need to make a "Fridge" out of our own Okam.:tiphat:

That is worth a try also!

badboy
10-14-2009, 12:06 PM
Very good explanation. Unfortunately, it shows that the call at the goalline was not the smartest they could have made. The scenario you described is exactly what happened.So maybe this why Kubes is sticking with the play. It was Studdard fault.

Goldensilence
10-14-2009, 01:19 PM
The problem isn't just the linemen not being able to get a push. The answer isn't let's put Okam, Leach, or insert big body player's name here. It's trying to run a different play.

I equate it to rearranging furniture on a sinking ship when instead you should try to fix the hole.

76Texan
10-14-2009, 02:22 PM
The problem isn't just the linemen not being able to get a push. The answer isn't let's put Okam, Leach, or insert big body player's name here. It's trying to run a different play.

I equate it to rearranging furniture on a sinking ship when instead you should try to fix the hole.

It has been suggested that it was a combination of various things.

Wolf6151
10-14-2009, 02:28 PM
Maybe someone smarter than me can explain this:

The coaching staff believes that the goal line/short yard package is our best bet to get 1 yard (stated by them numerous times).

AND

Coach Matthews says yes Myers may get pushed around by 300 lbs. nose tackles, but he's not supposed to stop them, he is supposed to hit/chip and get to the second level. Our linemen aren't big, they're finnesse players.


???? :spin:

So if I understand this correctly Myers is only supposed to chip the NT and then get to the second level, thus letting the NT into the backfield to blow up the play. If that's the case then he's doing a great job.

Big Lou
10-14-2009, 02:42 PM
Maybe someone smarter than me can explain this:

The coaching staff believes that the goal line/short yard package is our best bet to get 1 yard (stated by them numerous times).

AND

Coach Matthews says yes Myers may get pushed around by 300 lbs. nose tackles, but he's not supposed to stop them, he is supposed to hit/chip and get to the second level. Our linemen aren't big, they're finnesse players.


???? :spin:

New Goal Line Tactic:
If the offense gets within the 5 yard line from now on, they will purposely cause a false start, because 2nd and goal at the 1 is not an option.

Vinny
10-14-2009, 03:00 PM
In the RZ you have to put your compact case up and stop brushing your hair....'cause its time to hit someone in the mouth and drive them out of your space. Did we really expect a trio of Studdard, Myers and White/Briesel to blow a legit defensive interior off the ball? I guess so, but that doesn't make me feel that Kubiak is very smart. Keeping AJ on the sideline was a brilliant move too. That guy doesn't attract any attention.

Goldensilence
10-14-2009, 03:04 PM
It has been suggested that it was a combination of various things.

I'm not suggesting it's not either. But, I keep hearing these let's put x big player in there using the same sort of formation.

Why not just change your goal line approach? We have speed why not use it? Fade pass to AJ anyone?

Boy genius Shannhan should get it if Kubiak doesn't. But it looks like neither the guru or kid whiz do.

Vinny
10-14-2009, 03:06 PM
I'm not suggesting it's not either. But, I keep hearing these let's put x big player in there using the same sort of formation.

Why not just change your goal line approach? We have speed why not use it? Fade pass to AJ anyone?

Boy genius Shannhan should get it if Kubiak doesn't. But it looks like neither the guru or kid whiz do.Go 5 wide and spread them out. Sneak it in or do what you do best (throw it)...just don't force it up there because you are honoring some bullshit football cliché despite evidence that you are weak from Guard to Guard.

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2009, 03:07 PM
Maybe someone smarter than me can explain this:

The coaching staff believes that the goal line/short yard package is our best bet to get 1 yard (stated by them numerous times).

AND

Coach Matthews says yes Myers may get pushed around by 300 lbs. nose tackles, but he's not supposed to stop them, he is supposed to hit/chip and get to the second level. Our linemen aren't big, they're finnesse players.


???? :spin:

I think it was Lance Z who stated that ZBS around the goal line takes awhile to develop and isn't so hot .

I'm thinking also the old Broncos that we were modeled after had one HOF player in Gary Zimmerman . It had one borderline HOF player in Tom Nalen . It had one player Mark Schlereth , who was on multiple SB winning teams (started with the Redskins ) . A HOF QB and a RB who was well on his way to the HOF . What's this mean , they would have been good no matter what they ran . :thinking:

Double Barrel
10-14-2009, 03:09 PM
In the RZ you have to put your compact case up and stop brushing your hair....'cause its time to hit someone in the mouth and drive them out of your space. Did we really expect a trio of Studdard, Myers and White/Briesel to blow a legit defensive interior off the ball? I guess so, but that doesn't make me feel that Kubiak is very smart. Keeping AJ on the sideline was a brilliant move too. That guy doesn't attract any attention.

I yelled at the tv when they did that, and it made my baby girl cry. Thanks for being stupid, Gary Kubiak and lil' Shanny! My baby sheds tears for your stupid mistakes! :mad:

BrandonLwowski
10-14-2009, 03:18 PM
The play we shouldve ran is in the same formation but a playaction to casey!!!! who wouldve thought him...noone

Vinny
10-14-2009, 03:18 PM
I think it was Lance Z who stated that ZBS around the goal line takes awhile to develop and isn't so hot .

I'm thinking also the old Broncos that we were modeled after had one HOF player in Gary Zimmerman . It had one borderline HOF player in Tom Nalen . It had one player Mark Schlereth , who was on multiple SB winning teams (started with the Redskins ) . A HOF QB and a RB who was well on his way to the HOF . What's this mean , they would have been good no matter what they ran . :thinking:
3 years ago I was discussing how we would likely struggle around the goal line and in short yardage (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=404309&postcount=505) as a ZBS team too. Too bad we didn't have Pitts nor Spencer in there last Sunday.

Goldensilence
10-14-2009, 03:19 PM
The play we shouldve ran is in the same formation but a playaction to casey!!!! who wouldve thought him...noone

I'm still puzzled as to why people are calling for Casey. You know we sorta have a pro-bowl TE in front of him. I dunno...why not utilize him?

Shaft75
10-14-2009, 03:20 PM
3 years ago I was discussing how we would likely struggle around the goal line and in short yardage (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=404309&postcount=505) as a ZBS team too. Too bad we didn't have Pitts nor Spencer in there last Sunday.

I was thinking the same thing. Although, I absolutely HATED that play call. I was also thinking if Slaton was in there he could have bounced around for that extra yard. The Cardinals were in full force up the middle mode.

Vinny
10-14-2009, 03:21 PM
I yelled at the tv when they did that, and it made my baby girl cry. Thanks for being stupid, Gary Kubiak and lil' Shanny! My baby sheds tears for your stupid mistakes! :mad:
I thought it was a brilliant move to keep your best player and most physical skill guy on the sideline during the most pivotal play of the game. It's really a great snapshot at how our braintrust thinks.

Honoring Earl 34
10-14-2009, 03:22 PM
3 years ago I was discussing how we would likely struggle around the goal line and in short yardage (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=404309&postcount=505) as a ZBS team too. Too bad we didn't have Pitts nor Spencer in there last Sunday.

Before before the draft , Okam was thought of as a good guard prospect because he has some athletisism to go with good strength . He's also very smart .

RTP2110
10-14-2009, 03:27 PM
I thought it was a brilliant move to keep your best player and most physical skill guy on the sideline during the most pivotal play of the game. It's really a great snapshot at how our braintrust thinks.

Yeah, with the game on the line you usually go to your best players. Who do we go to? Chris Brown, Chris Meyers, & Mike Briesel. Ugh

infantrycak
10-14-2009, 04:11 PM
3 years ago I was discussing how we would likely struggle around the goal line and in short yardage (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=404309&postcount=505) as a ZBS team too. Too bad we didn't have Pitts nor Spencer in there last Sunday.

And just for the record, brilliant 17 year player in the NFL, Rich Gannon all game long if there was a 1 yard or under situation was crying for them to plunge ahead. So much for NFL experience meaning anything. Anyone want to guess what play Kurt Warner would have called? - heck on just a pass v. run basis?

Vinny
10-14-2009, 04:15 PM
And just for the record, brilliant 17 year player in the NFL, Rich Gannon all game long if there was a 1 yard or under situation was crying for them to plunge ahead. So much for NFL experience meaning anything. Anyone want to guess what play Kurt Warner would have called? - heck on just a pass v. run basis?hind sight is 20/20 but I can't figure out why we din't we put in multiple WRs, spread out the defense and let tall, lanky (and Sad) Schaub just sneak it in if the defense doesn't spread out with the multiple wrs? Seems like it has worked in the past around here, and AJ by himself always draws 2 players out of the box.

infantrycak
10-14-2009, 04:27 PM
hind sight is 20/20 but I can't figure out why we din't we put in multiple WRs, spread out the defense and let tall, lanky (and Sad) Schaub just sneak it in if the defense doesn't spread out with the multiple wrs? Seems like it has worked in the past around here, and AJ by himself always draws 2 players out of the box.

Normally I am one to discount "the coaches sucked" comments unless there is a specific reason given, but that was a play I just didn't get. Line it up tight and pitch to see if Slaton can hit the corner. Line it up wide and let Schaub make the call on pass v. run after the set. Line it up just like on the play before and have Leach lead block for Schaub. I saw them line up for an 11 on 11 match-up and went oh sh!t.

On Gannon though, he believed exactly like so many coaches say - running with one yard is logical, just keep doing it no matter the prior results.

b0ng
10-14-2009, 05:05 PM
The answer to "what to do in the redzone" is always jumpball to AJ

MightyTExan
10-14-2009, 07:04 PM
In crunch time you put the ball in the hands of your best playmakers. Does Chris Brown fall in that ccategory?