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Marcus
10-12-2009, 10:16 AM
Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6663011.html)

“When you can’t make a half-yard to win in this league, something’s wrong,” Kubiak said. “We couldn’t run the ball again. I know you guys are tired of hearing it, and I’m tired of saying it.”

Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6663213.html)

“We've got to be good enough to make a yard in the National Football League when it counts,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “If you can't, with your best (running play) and the game on the line, then something's wrong.”

Kubiak laid most of the blame at the feet of the running game, which averaged less than 3 yards per carry for the fourth time in five starts.

“The O-line has got to take the (blame) for that,” left tackle Duane Brown said. “We're not getting enough of a push. It really (hurts) right now.”

Kubiak hinted he might be ready to stop trying to force the issue with the running game.

“We've got to move the football,” he said. “If we've got to go out there and throw it all the time, that's what we'll do.”

Dang Gary, I could have told you it's the offensive line. And no, Gibbs didn't become a bad coach overnight.

Texans_Chick
10-12-2009, 10:21 AM
I think that quote is reading too much into things:

Presser (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5679)

The whole quote:

(on the struggles running the ball) "It's tough. We're not running the ball. I've said that every week and I'll start that off by saying it again. But we gotta do what we gotta do. If we gotta go out there and throw it, then we're going to throw it. We're going to move the football and we did in the second half. We moved it extremely well. The one big turnover is the difference in winning and losing, but we still had a chance there at the end to tie the football game."

Mr. White
10-12-2009, 10:25 AM
Hey Gary....

There's this new-fangled thing called a screen pass that I heard does wonders for opening up a running game.

Marcus
10-12-2009, 10:29 AM
I've seen the screen used quite a bit.

What I do want to see more of is . . . Ryan Moats.

El Tejano
10-12-2009, 10:30 AM
Hey Gary....

There's this new-fangled thing called a screen pass that I heard does wonders for opening up a running game.

And we did okay with that.

mussop
10-12-2009, 10:34 AM
Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/6663011.html)


Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6663213.html)





Dang Gary, I could have told you it's the offensive line. And no, Gibbs didn't become a bad coach overnight.

I think Cushing is going to be a very good player but I still think you dont pass up quality OL early in the draft until you have five guys that can start and compete on an very high level. Oher and Mack could of made a huge difference for the next decade.

I will never agree with the Denver idea of drafting OL late and trying to sculp them into something. That worked fine when cut blocking was legal but just dont cut it anymore. :) You have to have the horses up front or you will fail when it really matters if you are going to insist on being a run first offense.

Kubiack giving up on the run could be the best thing that has happened to this team. Take a look at Indy or NO for example. Both have such explosive passing games it makes their runnig game go. This offense has the skill players to be on that level. Hopefully this will be a evoloutionary revalation for this offense and we will become the next elite passing team.

nero THE zero
10-12-2009, 10:35 AM
Hey Gary....

There's this new-fangled thing called a screen pass that I heard does wonders for opening up a running game.

We ran an inordinate amount of screens yesterday.

Mr. White
10-12-2009, 10:41 AM
We ran an inordinate amount of screens yesterday.

I guess I'm talking generally. It doesn't seem like we've been running the screen pass much to establish the run this season. Especially early in the games.

SheTexan
10-12-2009, 10:42 AM
DUH!! Payton Manning and the Colts don't depend on their running game, and look where they are! Five games with over 300 passing yds!! I wonder if MS has that in him! We have the receivers, we have the TE! Why not give it a try! JMO!

thunderkyss
10-12-2009, 10:48 AM
Am I wrong in thinking that when we decided to be a pass oriented team last year, that the running game opened up?

My memory is really screwy, but I could have sworn that was the biggest difference between the beginning of the year, and the way we finished (top three in total offense). We were known for being explosive on 1st & 2nd down, and that's what teams prepared for, which backed the LBs up, backed the safeties up, and we were able to play one on one on the line, and create some space for Ryan Moats & Steve Slaton.

& if we've decided to go with a RBBC, which I thought we did 4 years ago, why in the heck do we not see Ryan Moats other than on special teams? We can rotate guards, but we can't rotate RBs? I think it's playing with the devil, tempting fate, when you keep sticking Slaton out there for 20+ carries.

Don't make no sense.

Ben Frank
10-12-2009, 10:48 AM
I've seen the screen used quite a bit.

What I do want to see more of is . . . Ryan Moats.

U make a good point.. IMO Brown's been pretty much giving the same as slaton.. In last weeks game.. Moat's came in and gave a spark to the running game, reminding me of sproles.. and when Slaton became threatened.. he stepped his game up and got some TD's for us.. Moats seems faster than slaton at the moment.. and he compliment him better imo

Yankee_In_TX
10-12-2009, 11:13 AM
Am I wrong in thinking that when we decided to be a pass oriented team last year, that the running game opened up?

If Kubiak thought about using the pass to open up a run game, his head would expload.

badboy
10-12-2009, 11:13 AM
[QUOTE=Ben Frank;1273740]U make a good point.. IMO Brown's been pretty much giving the same as slaton.. In last weeks game.. Moat's came in and gave a spark to the running game, reminding me of sproles.. and when Slaton became threatened.. he stepped his game up and got some TD's for us.. Moats seems faster than slaton at the moment.. and he compliment him better imo[/QUOTE It was confirmed to me on another thread that Moats has turf toe. We do not have the Oline to power in from the five or less. Myers got shoved back on last play but that could happen to a stronger center. Where is Caldwell in that situation? Anyone remember the overwhelming review from this MB on how he was the starter game 1?

Goldensilence
10-12-2009, 11:14 AM
U make a good point.. IMO Brown's been pretty much giving the same as slaton.. In last weeks game.. Moat's came in and gave a spark to the running game, reminding me of sproles.. and when Slaton became threatened.. he stepped his game up and got some TD's for us.. Moats seems faster than slaton at the moment.. and he compliment him better imo

Moats did seem to give some sort of spark, but gauging anything from the Raider's game IMO is tough. I mean lil Davie Carr pump faked his way into the end zone against them.

What I'd rather see is them get creative in the running game. We obviously can't get push up the middle consistently. So use plays that try to get the running backs to the edge of the field. Let Moats and Slaton use their quickness to their advantage for once. Run some stretch plays behind Brown and Daniels. Try some tosses to the outside.

Why do I get the sick feeling that the game has passed Gary up? He seems stuck on the late 90's Denver Broncos.

HoustonFrog
10-12-2009, 11:14 AM
I'm stunned that he considers that their best run play.

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2009, 11:18 AM
Do we not have a running back that can leap over the mass of humanity that is our flatened O-Line?

Yankee_In_TX
10-12-2009, 11:20 AM
Do we not have a running back that can leap over the mass of humanity that is our flatened O-Line?

Schaub said you don't do that any more in the NFL.

TimeKiller
10-12-2009, 12:32 PM
I'm stunned that he considers that their best run play.

Why, haven't you seen it before?

I have on more than one occasion. And one occasion I had front row seats to the goalline disaster vs. the Jags where he called this exact same play 3 times in a row and failed. To be honest, i've not seen it successfully work yet.

I'm just sayin'...I don't get paid to study them and I know exactly what unfolds out of that lineup in that situation. I'll bet the Cardinals DL did too.

OzzO
10-12-2009, 12:38 PM
Do we not have a running back that can leap over the mass of humanity that is our flatened O-Line?

I was thinking the same thing when reading the first post. If that's the best running play - I think there's more issues.

Schaub said you don't do that any more in the NFL.

True - only QB's are allowed to leave their feet. (either when making a pass or trying to gain that extra yard)

Porky
10-12-2009, 12:39 PM
The middle of our line is getting no push way to often, and the epicenter of this crisis is the C. Myers is undersized and under-strenghted for the position in this day and age. Until we get a real C, this is going to be a problem. Maybe if the guards were excellent we could cover for him, but it ain't like they are all that and a bag of chips themselves. We need interior line help bigtime.

This is a finessse line, built on quickness and athletism. So, quit pretending to be a smash mouth team up front. This group couldn't move a deck of cards an inch and I'm telling you Myers is the biggest issue. On the 4th down play he was totally outmanned and outgunned and that penetration ruined the play.

And WTH is the matter with Chris Brown. You either have to jump the pile in that situation, or get yourself low and drive those legs to try and sneak that ball in under the pile. One or the other. Instead he just ran with his normal upright style. That won't get it done unless the line opens a really nice hole.

buddyboy
10-12-2009, 12:55 PM
DUH!! Payton Manning and the Colts don't depend on their running game, and look where they are! Five games with over 300 passing yds!! I wonder if MS has that in him! We have the receivers, we have the TE! Why not give it a try! JMO!

We DO have 3 games over 300 passing yards. Then one with 200 against the Raiders, but that was a blowout.

Second Honeymoon
10-12-2009, 12:55 PM
Gary, please just stfu. I don't give a crap what you say anymore and I have given up any hope of you being anything more than a big loser.

Your inability to realize that Myers is one of the worst Centers in football only outs you as a horrible and ineffective head coach. Oh, and feel free to find someone other than Chris 'soft as Charmin' Brown to run the ball at goal line.

The only time we have run the ball well is when you benched Slaton for Moats because of the fumble, and then it lit a fire under Slaton. Myers and Brown need to be cut yesterday and Gary needs to stop being such a loser.

I can't stand this guy's act. It is really old and really tired. You suck Gary. Get out of town and take the crappy coaching staff you have assembled with you but leave Matthews and Kollar behind as they are the only hires that aren't cronies or BFFs.

buddyboy
10-12-2009, 12:58 PM
The middle of our line is getting no push way to often, and the epicenter of this crisis is the C. Myers is undersized and under-strenghted for the position in this day and age. Until we get a real C, this is going to be a problem. Maybe if the guards were excellent we could cover for him, but it ain't like they are all that and a bag of chips themselves. We need interior line help bigtime.

This is a finessse line, built on quickness and athletism. So, quit pretending to be a smash mouth team up front. This group couldn't move a deck of cards an inch and I'm telling you Myers is the biggest issue. On the 4th down play he was totally outmanned and outgunned and that penetration ruined the play.

And WTH is the matter with Chris Brown. You either have to jump the pile in that situation, or get yourself low and drive those legs to try and sneak that ball in under the pile. One or the other. Instead he just ran with his normal upright style. That won't get it done unless the line opens a really nice hole.

I think we can succeed with Meyers. You're right on the money: we have to quit pretending to be a smash mouth team up front. We aren't. Once you accept that, you realize that Meyers brings things that a bigger, stronger Center doesn't We might not notice it now, but if and when we get a Center that starts whiffing on blocks out in space in the second level, we'll start complaining about needing a quicker, more athletic center.

Porky
10-12-2009, 01:09 PM
I think we can succeed with Meyers. You're right on the money: we have to quit pretending to be a smash mouth team up front. We aren't. Once you accept that, you realize that Meyers brings things that a bigger, stronger Center doesn't We might not notice it now, but if and when we get a Center that starts whiffing on blocks out in space in the second level, we'll start complaining about needing a quicker, more athletic center.

I don't know about that. Granted, sometimes it's hard to see all the chess pieces moving, but I don't see Myers downfield at the 2nd level too often. I see number 76 more than anyone, and he is having a very fine 2nd year, but Myers? Not so much. And you can be strong and stout and still be quick and athletic. I realize those guys don't grow on trees, but they are out there.

mattieuk
10-12-2009, 01:32 PM
DUH!! Payton Manning and the Colts don't depend on their running game, and look where they are! Five games with over 300 passing yds!! I wonder if MS has that in him! We have the receivers, we have the TE! Why not give it a try! JMO!

Indy had 23 rushing attempts yesterday.

In their last game NO had 32 rushing attempts.

Yesterday we had 21 rushing attempts. We're rushing less that those two pass heavy teams already?

silvrhand
10-12-2009, 01:33 PM
Indy had 23 rushing attempts yesterday.

In their last game NO had 32 rushing attempts.

Yesterday we had 21 rushing attempts. We're rushing less that those two pass heavy teams already?

Two weeks ago when we lost to hte jags, someone busted out that anytime the texans have run the ball under Kubiak less than 25 time a game, we have not won a single game. It was one of the guys on sports 610, so I have a tendency to believe the source, and no it wasn't John Mcclain.

That's a pretty disturbing stat...

nero THE zero
10-12-2009, 01:51 PM
Schaub said you don't do that any more in the NFL.

Yea, tell that to Jospeh Addai.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/81355628.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CCEE0D59DFCB5F53F2 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

silvrhand
10-12-2009, 01:55 PM
Yea, tell that to Jospeh Addai.
http://cache1.asset-cache.net/xc/81355628.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF1934B869679A269F9CCEE0D59DFCB5F53F2 26FD13ED7B73D4BC

Who I didn't start this week in my fantasy league cause he's MR INJURY LIST!!.. So I start Garcon in his place in my flex position..

Garcon 1.4 points
Addai 19 points..

)(*@)$*($@)(*$@)*$ :bat:

buddyboy
10-12-2009, 02:22 PM
I don't know about that. Granted, sometimes it's hard to see all the chess pieces moving, but I don't see Myers downfield at the 2nd level too often. I see number 76 more than anyone, and he is having a very fine 2nd year, but Myers? Not so much. And you can be strong and stout and still be quick and athletic. I realize those guys don't grow on trees, but they are out there.

Yeah, if you can find one of those guys out there...you had better hold on to him. But those guys aren't cheap. I doubt we can find one in free agency, so I guess we gotta keep taking stabs in the dark in the draft (Caldwell).

Texecutioner
10-12-2009, 02:30 PM
I just don't see how our O line could have gotten that bad in run blocking over one season, especially when teams have to watch out for our passing game so much this year. It just doesn't make sense. We've ran this same scheme for 3 years now and we haven't lost any significant lineman other than Pitts who wasn't our LT any way. Slaton had nowhere to run yesterday. He played a pretty good game I thought considering the situations that he was in.

blitz90
10-12-2009, 02:46 PM
"If we gotta go out there and throw it, then we're going to throw it. We're going to move the football and we did in the second half. We moved it extremely well. " - Kubiak

I surely hope he just now isn't realizing this. Coaches are paid the big money to win games and whether its your personal formula or not, you play to your teams strengths. This team's strength is going out there and slingin it! Sure your making your QB susceptible to a host of different things including Kubiak's most hated thing, turnovers, but you gotta make some adjustments!

thunderkyss
10-12-2009, 04:23 PM
I just don't see how our O line could have gotten that bad in run blocking over one season, especially when teams have to watch out for our passing game so much this year. It just doesn't make sense. We've ran this same scheme for 3 years now and we haven't lost any significant lineman other than Pitts who wasn't our LT any way. Slaton had nowhere to run yesterday. He played a pretty good game I thought considering the situations that he was in.

I think.. Last year, we decided to be a pass oriented team. Just like someone mentioned above, that doesn't mean you won't run the ball. But we were a big play, stretch the field offense over the last 9 or 10 games last year, and that's when our running game opened up.

This year, instead of going with that, to me, it seems that Kubiak is bound & determined to establish this as a running team. Which we aren't. Atlanta is a running team. You can expect them to run the ball, and you can game plan against them running the ball, & at the end of the day, they still put 110 yards on you.

Another thing.... I don't understand why we don't see Ryan Moats until SS is in the dog house.... he's a talented RB who brings something different to our game. If we mix it up with Slaton/Moats/Brown.... we'll have something.

I think.

& that goes for our WR's as well. Andre Davis, Jacoby Jones & David Anderson all bring something unique to our offense, and we're shooting ourselves in the foot to not take advantage of that.

& If we're going to line up with our fullback on the wings... put James Casey in there. No one is ever going to believe we want to match up Vonta Leach on a CB.

To sum up this long-winded post.... I think our coach is hung up on what he wants this team to be, and can't for the life of him see what this team is.

TheRealJoker
10-12-2009, 04:31 PM
DUH!! Payton Manning and the Colts don't depend on their running game, and look where they are! Five games with over 300 passing yds!! I wonder if MS has that in him! We have the receivers, we have the TE! Why not give it a try! JMO!

We have tried that. Schaub has had 2 games of over 300 yards where we end up losing because we came a yard short including yesterday's league leading 371 yard effort.

Spled
10-12-2009, 04:34 PM
Moats should be the sort yardage guy. Casey should be used because defenses won't know if he's going to run or catch.