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View Full Version : Holy Cr*p... Refs screwed us!


dalemurphy
10-12-2009, 04:02 AM
Okay, so I'm not exactly going to blame this loss on the Refs. But, after rewatching the end of the game, I have less of a beef with the playcall... because...

On 3rd and goal, the ball was well inside the one yard line. We needed about 1ft for a TD. When the refs replaced the ball for 4th down the ball was outside the 1 yard line. The respot cost us an entire yard. When you're inches away, that playcall makes more sense. And, there's no way a coach on the sideline, stuck between the 20s, can see the poor spot.

that was a pretty big gaffe by the Refs. Though, I still dislike the call and I really dislike Schaub's errant throw on the play before.

Scooter
10-12-2009, 04:11 AM
i actually have a couple questions about the rules in this one. how much pushing is allowed from a receiver? i hadnt noticed before, but fitz runs his routes with a series of stiffarms. i'm getting a bit fuzzy but one of his touchdowns was a good example of that pushoff, and he had a couple others in the first half. the other is removing your helmet on the field ... i thought that was illegal, but warner when frustrasted had the helmet off between the hash marks several times.

i'm not really concerned about their game impact, just looking for some clarification.

utahmark
10-12-2009, 04:21 AM
i couldnt figure out why that 4th down play was from the 1. i was going to rewatch it tomorrow. arizona got the ball back on about the 3 inch line, so we made nine inches. if the ball was marked correctly we win.:texflag: i'm just going to pretend like we won. it will be a nicer week and i wont owe anyone a diet coke.

TexanBacker93
10-12-2009, 06:54 AM
i couldnt figure out why that 4th down play was from the 1. i was going to rewatch it tomorrow. arizona got the ball back on about the 3 inch line, so we made nine inches. if the ball was marked correctly we win.:texflag: i'm just going to pretend like we won. it will be a nicer week and i wont owe anyone a diet coke.

If the ball was spotted correctly we would have gone in for the tie. We'd still have to win in OT.

BattleRedToro
10-12-2009, 08:13 AM
If the ball was spotted correctly we would have gone in for the tie. We'd still have to win in OT.

Not necessarily. After scoring a TD on 4th Down the Texans could have decided to attempt a 2 point conversion, and if succesful they would have won in regulation time.

Fred
10-12-2009, 08:17 AM
Not necessarily. After scoring a TD on 4th Down the Texans could have decided to attempt a 2 point conversion, and if succesful they would have won in regulation time.
Except a 2 point conversion is from the 2 or 3 yardline, not the 6 inch line. So how would we go for 2? A pass out the back of the end zone, or 12 running plays?

BattleRedToro
10-12-2009, 08:22 AM
Except a 2 point conversion is from the 2 or 3 yardline, not the 6 inch line. So how would we go for 2? A pass out the back of the end zone, or 12 running plays?

Yes, I know the spot for a 2 point conversion attempt is not the 6 inch mark. I would guess that the Texans would run a play-action pass to a TE or something like that for the 2 point conversion. My point was it was possible to go for the win there in regulation time, and not play for OT.

GuerillaBlack
10-12-2009, 09:08 AM
We still would have had to stop Arizona from going down the field...

HoustonFrog
10-12-2009, 09:11 AM
Another refs thread. (shaking head)

davemundy
10-12-2009, 09:15 AM
Okay, so I'm not exactly going to blame this loss on the Refs. But, after rewatching the end of the game, I have less of a beef with the playcall... because...

On 3rd and goal, the ball was well inside the one yard line. We needed about 1ft for a TD. When the refs replaced the ball for 4th down the ball was outside the 1 yard line. The respot cost us an entire yard. When you're inches away, that playcall makes more sense. And, there's no way a coach on the sideline, stuck between the 20s, can see the poor spot.

that was a pretty big gaffe by the Refs. Though, I still dislike the call and I really dislike Schaub's errant throw on the play before.

Spots always change like that, and I'm sure if we hear from a ref we'll find out. Nine inches or one yard, though, the point was, Houston didn't get into the end zone, period.

gtexan02
10-12-2009, 09:19 AM
We still would have had to stop Arizona from going down the field...

They scored 0 points in the 3rd/4th quarters offesively

GuerillaBlack
10-12-2009, 09:20 AM
They scored 0 points in the 3rd/4th quarters offesively

What does that matter? We still would have had to stop then regardless though right?

HoustonFrog
10-12-2009, 09:37 AM
Spots always change like that, and I'm sure if we hear from a ref we'll find out. Nine inches or one yard, though, the point was, Houston didn't get into the end zone, period.

And you also never know where the knee hit before the ball was extended, etc. I've thought spots were wrong before depending on the ball and then I see where the ball was when the knee actually hit and they are pretty close.

hookinreds
10-12-2009, 09:46 AM
i actually have a couple questions about the rules in this one. how much pushing is allowed from a receiver? i hadnt noticed before, but fitz runs his routes with a series of stiffarms. i'm getting a bit fuzzy but one of his touchdowns was a good example of that pushoff, and he had a couple others in the first half. the other is removing your helmet on the field ... i thought that was illegal, but warner when frustrasted had the helmet off between the hash marks several times.

i'm not really concerned about their game impact, just looking for some clarification.

I was thinking the same thing during the game and will rewatch it again tonight or tomorrow. I could have sworn the Fitz stiffarmed Dunta in the face and pushed off on the TD and on an earlier play that the did a replay on and couldn't believe it wasn't called back. I was at a bar so couldn't hear the sound so not sure if they talked about it or not, but it was an obvious push off to me....(oh...it was on a comback route that Dunta was pushed off on and where he slipped leaving the WR wide open) and looking like Dunta blew the coverage.

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2009, 09:56 AM
I was thinking the same thing during the game and will rewatch it again tonight or tomorrow. I could have sworn the Fitz stiffarmed Dunta in the face and pushed off on the TD and on an earlier play that the did a replay on and couldn't believe it wasn't called back. I was at a bar so couldn't hear the sound so not sure if they talked about it or not, but it was an obvious push off to me....(oh...it was on a comback route that Dunta was pushed off on and where he slipped leaving the WR wide open) and looking like Dunta blew the coverage.

They didn't talk about it about it all, but Fitz pushed off of Dunta bigtime, then crossed the back of the endzone with Dunta trailing and trying to catch back up. There was a good few seconds from the push off until the pass, he covered a lot of ground so I guess the refs missed it somehow, it looked obvious to me, he extended his arm and that is what the refs are supposed to look for, that easily should have came back.

Okay, so I'm not exactly going to blame this loss on the Refs. But, after rewatching the end of the game, I have less of a beef with the playcall... because...

On 3rd and goal, the ball was well inside the one yard line. We needed about 1ft for a TD. When the refs replaced the ball for 4th down the ball was outside the 1 yard line. The respot cost us an entire yard. When you're inches away, that playcall makes more sense. And, there's no way a coach on the sideline, stuck between the 20s, can see the poor spot.

that was a pretty big gaffe by the Refs. Though, I still dislike the call and I really dislike Schaub's errant throw on the play before.

I haven't rewatched it yet, and don't know if I will this week, but didn't we get pushed back about a 1/2 yard on 3rd down, and that's why we had further to go on 4th down.

That's how I remember it just watching it once.

infantrycak
10-12-2009, 09:57 AM
And you also never know where the knee hit before the ball was extended, etc. I've thought spots were wrong before depending on the ball and then I see where the ball was when the knee actually hit and they are pretty close.

I thought the spots were conservative to put it kindly all day by this particular reffing crew. Will not say it affected the game although obviously things like that can.

i actually have a couple questions about the rules in this one. how much pushing is allowed from a receiver? i hadnt noticed before, but fitz runs his routes with a series of stiffarms. i'm getting a bit fuzzy but one of his touchdowns was a good example of that pushoff, and he had a couple others in the first half. the other is removing your helmet on the field ... i thought that was illegal, but warner when frustrasted had the helmet off between the hash marks several times.

i'm not really concerned about their game impact, just looking for some clarification.

If you are referring to Fitz' 2nd TD what it looked like to me was Dunta pushed himself backwards off Fitz in the endzone.

You are right on the helmet rule but they are going to let vets get away with that most of the time if they do not do it to yell at someone else.

HoustonFrog
10-12-2009, 10:12 AM
I thought the spots were conservative to put it kindly all day by this particular reffing crew. Will not say it affected the game although obviously things like that can.


If you are referring to Fitz' 2nd TD what it looked like to me was Dunta pushed himself backwards off Fitz in the endzone.

You are right on the helmet rule but they are going to let vets get away with that most of the time if they do not do it to yell at someone else.

Could have been. I didn't see the replay of that particular play. I just see the guys run in sometimes and I'm incredulous until I see it in slo-mo.

ChampionTexan
10-12-2009, 10:24 AM
What does that matter? We still would have had to stop then regardless though right?

You're correct, but given the way our defense played in the second half, and the fact that there would have been about 40 seconds left in regulation when we kicked off, I would have kind of liked our chances of sending it into overtime.

infantrycak
10-12-2009, 10:29 AM
Could have been. I didn't see the replay of that particular play. I just see the guys run in sometimes and I'm incredulous until I see it in slo-mo.

I wasn't really referring to the goal line plays. Throughout the game I was seeing balls placed at the knees or hips instead of where the ball had advanced to when the knee touched. I saw it for both teams although it felt like it was more to the Texans, but that may be because OD, SS, Walter and AJ are all good at trying to extend for the last possible yard.

utahmark
10-12-2009, 10:48 AM
They didn't talk about it about it all, but Fitz pushed off of Dunta bigtime, then crossed the back of the endzone with Dunta trailing and trying to catch back up. There was a good few seconds from the push off until the pass, he covered a lot of ground so I guess the refs missed it somehow, it looked obvious to me, he extended his arm and that is what the refs are supposed to look for, that easily should have came back.



I haven't rewatched it yet, and don't know if I will this week, but didn't we get pushed back about a 1/2 yard on 3rd down, and that's why we had further to go on 4th down.

That's how I remember it just watching it once.

3rd down was a incomplete pass. i havent watched it again yet. i just remember thinking it was weird then i saw this post.

mussop
10-12-2009, 11:47 AM
Head coach Ken Whisenhunt

(on if he the goal line stand was reminiscent of the Monday Night 49ers game last season) "I'll tell you what, you talk about karma. You may think I'm crazy, but the Monday Night game last year on that fourth down, we had the same officiating crew this year. One of the officials came up to me and said ‘We had your game last year against San Francisco,' so I wish he would have told me that before they ran the fourth down play, [laughing] then I would have known they were going to stop them."

Interesting. :thinking:

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2009, 12:09 PM
3rd down was a incomplete pass. i havent watched it again yet. i just remember thinking it was weird then i saw this post.

I must be confused then, I thought we threw it on 2nd down, I will have to re-watch it.

HOU-TEX
10-12-2009, 12:13 PM
I must be confused then, I thought we threw it on 2nd down, I will have to re-watch it.

We ran the shovel to Slaton on 1st and goal at the 6.

Brown for no gain on 2nd and 1

Pass to Dreessen incomplete on 3rd

Brown for no gain on 4th

Hardcore Texan
10-12-2009, 12:14 PM
We ran the shovel to Slaton on 1st and goal at the 6.

Brown for no gain on 2nd and 1

Pass to Dreessen incomplete on 3rd

Brown for no gain on 4th

Thanks, I had second and third down backwards in my recollection.

TimeKiller
10-12-2009, 01:08 PM
I thought the Cardinal DL was lining up over the ball. I didn't think you were allowed to do that, I didnt have the broadcast on but I'm pretty sure that's like a neutral zone infraction right? Defense lines up on the defensive side of the ball.

Big Lou
10-12-2009, 03:55 PM
i actually have a couple questions about the rules in this one. how much pushing is allowed from a receiver? i hadnt noticed before, but fitz runs his routes with a series of stiffarms. i'm getting a bit fuzzy but one of his touchdowns was a good example of that pushoff, and he had a couple others in the first half. the other is removing your helmet on the field ... i thought that was illegal, but warner when frustrasted had the helmet off between the hash marks several times.

i'm not really concerned about their game impact, just looking for some clarification.

I was at the game, and there was a couple of blantant push offs by the Cards WR's. I almost got in a fight with a Arizona fan over yelling it. Also I was watching one of the Jumbtrons and saw Slaton get horse collared, so is this something they don't call on teams playing the Texans.

Big Lou
10-12-2009, 03:57 PM
I thought the Cardinal DL was lining up over the ball. I didn't think you were allowed to do that, I didnt have the broadcast on but I'm pretty sure that's like a neutral zone infraction right? Defense lines up on the defensive side of the ball.

The Titans did that last year in the first game, and it gave them a huge advantage. They were blowing up our line, but hell they were in the back field before the snap. There heads were almost between the O-line a couple of times....

Fred
10-12-2009, 08:10 PM
We ran the shovel to Slaton on 1st and goal at the 6.

Brown for no gain on 2nd and 1

Pass to Dreessen incomplete on 3rd

Brown for no gain on 4th

2nd down was Brown for 30 inch gain to 6 inch line.

Pass out the back of the endzone to Dressen on 3rd.

Brown for 30 inch gain to 6 inch line on 4th. If the refs move the ball back 30 inches on an incompletion, then yeah, I guess 30 inch gains are no gain.

Battle Red Toro: I know you know the 2 point conversions aren't from the 6 inch line - I was just poking fun at our ridiculous goal line play calling.

TexanBacker93
10-12-2009, 11:49 PM
Not necessarily. After scoring a TD on 4th Down the Texans could have decided to attempt a 2 point conversion, and if succesful they would have won in regulation time.

I thought about that, but the way the defense had been playing in the 2nd half I think the smart play would be kick the extra point and go to overtime.

After watching it again just a bit ago, it didn't look like the 3rd down spot and the 4th down spots were different. I thought maybe the spot should have been closer after Chris Brown's 2nd down run, but it didn't look like it moved back to me.

Speedy
10-13-2009, 12:11 AM
I thought about that, but the way the defense had been playing in the 2nd half I think the smart play would be kick the extra point and go to overtime.

After watching it again just a bit ago, it didn't look like the 3rd down spot and the 4th down spots were different. I thought maybe the spot should have been closer after Chris Brown's 2nd down run, but it didn't look like it moved back to me.

Agreed. There wasn't really a good shot at where the ball was on the 4th down play as the center was already covering the ball, but it looked about the same.