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View Full Version : Front Office/HC/OC/DC who do you want?


painekiller
10-11-2009, 08:07 PM
For the exercise of it. This is if things continue on the current path.

GM - Floyd Reese - currently with the Pats
HC - HC - Marty Mornhinweg Currently Assistent HC/Offensive OC w/Eagles
OC - Andy Heck Currently with Jags OL

DC - Wade Phillips current HC of the Cowboys.

It just a thought. Give your reasons for your choices.

Lucky
10-11-2009, 08:14 PM
Marty Mornhinweg? Really?

texanhead08
10-11-2009, 08:17 PM
We want a coach capable of losing every game, and we thought Kubes was bad.

mariowillshine15
10-11-2009, 08:18 PM
For the exercise of it. This is if things continue on the current path.

GM - Floyd Reese - currently with the Pats
HC - HC - Marty Mornhinweg Currently Assistent HC/Offensive OC w/Eagles
OC - Andy Heck Currently with Jags OL

DC - Wade Phillips current HC of the Cowboys.

It just a thought. Give your reasons for your choices.

Mods- I'm sorry I put this in the wrong spot, could you move it for me?

The guy who won the coin toss in overtime and deferred? really? Im glad you dont have pull with the Texans.

painekiller
10-11-2009, 08:29 PM
Marty Mornhinweg? Really?

And you think Cowher is coming here? How about Jimmy Johnson? Be realistic. The Texans are not going to get Parchells, Shanahan, Cowher, or Mike Holmgren. You can have Jon Gruden.

We have gone the new HC route and it takes to long to learn, so give me the recycled guy everyone wrote off. The Tom Coughlin's of the world.

Add a top DC who is on the rebound from a bad HC job.

And let's evaluate our players on a real level, could they start for any of the playoff teams?

texanhead08
10-11-2009, 08:31 PM
I would take a recycled guy who has had success like Coughlin but Morningwig hasn't done shit ever. The Lions got worse when he was coach and thats saying something.

painekiller
10-11-2009, 08:38 PM
Let's go Dan Reeves as HC

He and Wade have worked together a bunch of times. And they seem to always get to the playoffs.

mariowillshine15
10-11-2009, 08:39 PM
Bring in Marty Schottenheimer. He may have problems in the playoffs but at least he GETS THERE.

painekiller
10-11-2009, 08:40 PM
I would take a recycled guy who has had success like Coughlin but Mornhinweg hasn't done shit ever. The Lions got worse when he was coach and thats saying something.

And where did Coughlin have success before he was recycled? I never saw Jacksonville in the the big game.

Hookem Horns
10-11-2009, 08:40 PM
Wade Phillips are you serious?? You think the Texans would do better sleep walking?

painekiller
10-11-2009, 08:44 PM
Wade Phillips are you serious?? You think the Texans would do better sleep walking?

He is an excellent DC. He sucks as a HC.

painekiller
10-11-2009, 08:45 PM
Bring in Marty Schottenheimer. He may have problems in the playoffs but at least he GETS THERE.

Not a bad choice, especially if he brings his son as OC.

Wolf
10-11-2009, 09:08 PM
Jeff Fisher if he became available if i had to pick a HC ..

he could scare that defense up .

and probably keep the offense coaches in tack, except for the offensive line

awtysst
10-11-2009, 09:10 PM
He is an excellent DC. He sucks as a HC.

Um, have you seen the "excellent" job he has done with the COwboys D this season. His D allowed mighty Matt Cassel and the KC chiefs to drive down the field and get a tying TD to send the game to OT!

awtysst
10-11-2009, 09:12 PM
If we are thinking outside of the box lets go with Dick Vermeil. I mean we all know we can't run the ball and all Vermeil did was have Warner sling the ball all over the place. Greatest show on Turf you know!

Second Honeymoon
10-11-2009, 09:21 PM
Holmgren and Cowher would be longshots. That's a given. Shanahan wont happen for obvious reasons.

Of the other proven winning candidates, that leaves Schotty and Gruden. Schotty would bring some quality coaches with him but is a little long in the tooth for me. Ask Bucs fan if they want Gruden back?

For some reason there seems to be this Gruden hatred but what has the guy done besides win? He took BRAD JOHNSON!! to the Super Bowl and WON IT!! Dungy couldn't do it and Gruden did. He also helped build and mold a Raiders team into a Super Bowl contender and once he left.....they went to hell. He leaves the Bucs this year, and they go from playoff contender to #1 overall pick contender.

Gruden would bring proven coaching staff that has already worked under him and he would bring some of the fire and passion and intensity that this current team so sorely lacks.

We would be lucky to have Jon Gruden as our coach. He is the best guy that we would have a realistic chance at grabbing.

Bring Bruce Allen as his GM partner, and fill in OC and DC with some good coaching.

And while you are at it, try luring a real difference maker to our team in Free Agency.

Carr Bombed
10-11-2009, 09:22 PM
I know some people here don't like him, but the guy I really like and the guy I think would be perfect here is....

Jon Gruden. I'm tired of people saying "he only won with Dungy's players". The guy coached a team to a winning season and playoff apearence after the Bucs were "Dungy's team". He also was the last head coach that really won in Oakland. (which isn't easy to do). He's a good coach and he'll be a head coach for someone next season (hopefully here). He's only had 3 losing seasons in his 11 year head coaching career.

With him as coach you're getting a guy who has won at every spot he's ever been at......he's a experienced head coach (and still young), and you don't have to completely rebuild the offensive scheme with him (the only positive our team has consistently had over the years)...you'll just have to tweek it.

He's also the fire and brimstone coach everybody has been asking for, he practically sleeps in his office, and he doesn't except losing, inconsistency, or subpar play from anybody....in other words he doesn't put up with mediocrity, which is actually what we've been under Kubiak. He's the kind of coach who'll probably wear out the team he's coaching after 5-6 years...but his style will sure as hell kick a team in the pants when he first comes in (which is the reason he took Dungy's team further than Dungy ever could).

I don't care what anybody says......I'm firmly planted in the Gruden camp, because he makes sense, and unlike Cowher and Holmgrem....we can actually get him to coach here. I don't want to try out another hotshot coordinator, we can't afford to miss on another "experiment". I want a guy who's proven he can win in this league...the safe pick.

Carr Bombed
10-11-2009, 09:26 PM
Holmgren and Cowher would be longshots. That's a given. Shanahan wont happen for obvious reasons.

Of the other proven winning candidates, that leaves Schotty and Gruden. Schotty would bring some quality coaches with him but is a little long in the tooth for me. Ask Bucs fan if they want Gruden back?

For some reason there seems to be this Gruden hatred but what has the guy done besides win? He took BRAD JOHNSON!! to the Super Bowl and WON IT!! Dungy couldn't do it and Gruden did. He also helped build and mold a Raiders team into a Super Bowl contender and once he left.....they went to hell. He leaves the Bucs this year, and they go from playoff contender to #1 overall pick contender.

Gruden would bring proven coaching staff that has already worked under him and he would bring some of the fire and passion and intensity that this current team so sorely lacks.

We would be lucky to have Jon Gruden as our coach. He is the best guy that we would have a realistic chance at grabbing.

Bring Bruce Allen as his GM partner, and fill in OC and DC with some good coaching.

And while you are at it, try luring a real difference maker to our team in Free Agency.

Hmm.....great minds think alike :cool:

Gruden is the guy I've wanted for awhile now.

Pantherstang84
10-11-2009, 09:37 PM
Hmm.....great minds think alike :cool:

Gruden is the guy I've wanted for awhile now.

I like Chucky always have. I love the intensity he brings. Runs a similar offense to what we have now. If he can find the right DC, I'm on board.

mussop
10-11-2009, 09:59 PM
Holmgren and Cowher would be longshots. That's a given. Shanahan wont happen for obvious reasons.

Of the other proven winning candidates, that leaves Schotty and Gruden. Schotty would bring some quality coaches with him but is a little long in the tooth for me. Ask Bucs fan if they want Gruden back?

For some reason there seems to be this Gruden hatred but what has the guy done besides win? He took BRAD JOHNSON!! to the Super Bowl and WON IT!! Dungy couldn't do it and Gruden did. He also helped build and mold a Raiders team into a Super Bowl contender and once he left.....they went to hell. He leaves the Bucs this year, and they go from playoff contender to #1 overall pick contender.

Gruden would bring proven coaching staff that has already worked under him and he would bring some of the fire and passion and intensity that this current team so sorely lacks.

We would be lucky to have Jon Gruden as our coach. He is the best guy that we would have a realistic chance at grabbing.
Bring Bruce Allen as his GM partner, and fill in OC and DC with some good coaching.

And while you are at it, try luring a real difference maker to our team in Free Agency.

John Gruden sucks. His players didnt even like him. Hes nothing but an attention whore. Look at me, look at me I make stupid faces to get attention. Barf!!!!! If we hired him I would never watch another Texans game again.

BattleRedToro
10-11-2009, 10:08 PM
Bring in Marty Schottenheimer. He may have problems in the playoffs but at least he GETS THERE.

If Kubiak were to be fired, then I would definitely approve of hiring Marty Schottenheimer. Sure, he has a reputation regarding his teams' bad record in the playoffs, but those losses were against some great teams with great QB's.

MannyFresh
10-11-2009, 10:13 PM
We can be the squeaky wheel....

Carr Bombed
10-11-2009, 10:14 PM
If Kubiak were to be fired, then I would definitely approve of hiring Marty Schottenheimer. Sure, he has a reputation regarding his teams' bad record in the playoffs, but those losses were against some great teams with great QB's.

Marty Schottenheimer is 66 years old.....I doubt he wants to even coach again and if he did, he's too old.

LonerATO
10-11-2009, 10:16 PM
If Kubiak were to be fired, then I would definitely approve of hiring Marty Schottenheimer. Sure, he has a reputation regarding his teams' bad record in the playoffs, but those losses were against some great teams with great QB's.

I would ok with this as long as the Texans kept the 4-3

Carr Bombed
10-11-2009, 10:19 PM
John Gruden sucks. His players didnt even like him. Hes nothing but an attention whore. Look at me, look at me I make stupid faces to get attention. Barf!!!!! If we hired him I would never watch another Texans game again.

LMAO.....give me a break.

"Gruden sucks", the guy only has 3 losing seasons in his career and last year he got fired after a 9-7 season......a season that would be a all time high for Kubiak. BTW, that same team that was 9-7 with him is now 0-5 without him and they aren't even competing :rolleyes:

Also his players don't "hate him". That was just a select few, for the most part his players loved him.....the vets like Lynch, Sapp, and Brooks really liked him.

But none of that matters one bit, because if I'm holding a interview for a head coaching spot, the LAST thing I would care about is whether or not "he was the players' friend", really....I wouldn't give a crap about that. Results is ALL I care about......Kubiak's players "LOVE" him and where the hell has that got us?

mussop
10-11-2009, 10:21 PM
I would ok with this as long as the Texans kept the 4-3

WHY?????? Who cares what we run so long as were better. I know Marios talents would be wasted bla bla bla. You mean like when he runs that huge loop and is basically run out ot he play when the QB steps up in the pocket? Or when teams jsut run away from him? Put him in the middle (DE) and make teams run outside and let our LB's chase them down if that makes us a better D.

TheIronDuke
10-11-2009, 10:26 PM
I'm thinking Joe Paterno is primed and ready for the NFL. We should bring him in and see what he can do with this team.

painekiller
10-11-2009, 10:33 PM
I am not a Gruden fan. The man has killed more QBs than any other HC in football. You will be paying top FA $ every year for a new QB. The reason his team has won the last few years is that Monty Kiffen is one hell of a defensive coach, and when Monty left so did the wins.

I say the Buc's won despite Gruden not because of him.

Carr Bombed
10-11-2009, 10:40 PM
I am not a Gruden fan. The man has killed more QBs than any other HC in football. You will be paying top FA $ every year for a new QB. The reason his team has won the last few years is that Monty Kiffen is one hell of a defensive coach, and when Monty left so did the wins.

I say the Buc's won despite Gruden not because of him.

Did his team win in Oakland because of Kiffin also?

He also became a collector of QBs when he knew he didn't have one....when he did have QBs he stuck with them. The sad thing is, even when he was searching for QBs he still was winning games.

Why is it that people spend all of their time trying to find excuses for Gruden's success, instead of just giving the man credit.

painekiller
10-12-2009, 08:12 AM
Some names I want to hear some input on .

Jim Harbaugh, former QB coach of the Raiders, current HC of Stanford.

An old name not mentioned recently, Steve Mariucci. I know he was another Lions bust, but was it the coaches or the GM and lack of talent?

Mike Heimerdinger is another WCO general who has had mixed success. A former roommate of Shanahan's.

Brian Schottenheimer, Marty's son, is the current Jets OC. He is having some success.

Old School, Dan Henning currently the OC with the Dolphins.
__________________

ChampionTexan
10-12-2009, 09:40 AM
I honestly think the HC choice is (or at least should be) the second most important decision going into next year.

What I don't believe we've ever had here is a GM who has both the autonomy and the stones to shape the roster the way it should be shaped. Casserly had the authority, but all too often acquiesced to the coaching staff with horrible results (see Patrick Buchanon, and Jason Babin). Rick Smith appears to be little more than a yes-man for Kubiak.

The teams everyone points to as the immediate turnarounds (Falcons, Ravens, last years Dolphins, this year's Broncos) are all coached by first-time Head Coaches, but also have GM's/FO's that are well managed, and autonomous of the HC. Denver may be the exception to this (I'm not sure), but even with them, they have a GM who has a background that doesn't suggest he is there simply to agree with everything McDaniel says.

I honestly still believe there's a lot to like about Kubiak as a HC, but it appears his job goes well beyond HC, and what I don't think ever happens is a challenge to his opinion. While it's apples/oranges in terms of achievements and success, I think the same thing happened to Rudy T with the Rockets. Nobody ever thought to challenge his decisions, they just carried them out (can you say Kelvin Cato). It's been very rare in the NFL that somebody with both HC and GM responsibilities succeeded. Mike Holmgren couldn't, Bill Parcells has had his greatest success wearing just one hat, and most of the NFL's model franchises have strong and autonomous front offices.

Go out and find the best GM you can get. Doesn't matter whether it's a proven commodity, or a star on the rise, but get somebody good, give him the authority he needs, and work on who the coach is after that.

Texans_Chick
10-12-2009, 10:43 AM
Is it just me or is it every time there is a thread that actually names names of who they want to coach the future Texans, the names make you nauseated.

noxiousdog
10-12-2009, 10:51 AM
Is it just me or is it every time there is a thread that actually names names of who they want to coach the future Texans, the names make you nauseated.

That's because the number of truly great coaches is extremely limited.

I'm really beginning to think there's bad coaches, mostly average coaches, and a tiny few of great coaches. Even Belichick has only won 62% of his games. That's an average of 9.7 wins a season.

Texan_Bill
10-12-2009, 10:52 AM
Is it just me or is it every time there is a thread that actually names names of who they want to coach the future Texans, the names make you nauseated.

It's not just you. http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-31.gif

mussop
10-12-2009, 10:52 AM
Some names I want to hear some input on .

Jim Harbaugh, former QB coach of the Raiders, current HC of Stanford.

An old name not mentioned recently, Steve Mariucci. I know he was another Lions bust, but was it the coaches or the GM and lack of talent?

Mike Heimerdinger is another WCO general who has had mixed success. A former roommate of Shanahan's.

Brian Schottenheimer, Marty's son, is the current Jets OC. He is having some success.

Old School, Dan Henning currently the OC with the Dolphins.
__________________


Mike Pettine is a name yo will be hearing about before long also. And what about Bill Callahan? Just throwing names out.

painekiller
10-12-2009, 08:45 PM
Mike Pettine is a name yo will be hearing about before long also. And what about Bill Callahan? Just throwing names out.

Pettine is on the radar, being that Ryan was my favorite asst coach last year. So i have followed his guys.

As for Callahan, he has a lot more bad stuff to shack off before I consider him a viable option again. Could see him going to the team that hires Gruden as the OC.

You are aware that Callahan is the OL coach and Brian Schottenheimer is running the offense for the Jets right?

TexansFanatic
10-12-2009, 09:09 PM
Is it just me or is it every time there is a thread that actually names names of who they want to coach the future Texans, the names make you nauseated.

Makes the fact that I hate to see Kubiak fail doubly frustrating.

I really wanted him to be the guy.

Damn!

DerekLee1
10-13-2009, 01:04 AM
HC: Kubiak or Cowher
OC: Lil' Shanny
DC: ???

I have a feeling that Lil' Shanny goes nowhere next season, regardless of the head coach. He has a good thing rolling here. Methinks McNair is looking at one of three coaches for 2010: Kubiak (if he goes better than 8-8 this year), Cowher (long shot), or Big Shanny (for obvious reasons). I'd give Kubiak 1-1 odds, Cowher 15-1, and Big Shanahan 2-1.

painekiller
10-13-2009, 02:47 AM
How about HC Bruce Coslet
OC Ken Anderson
QB coach Turk Schonert
OL Bruce Matthews

Defense
DC Pepper Johnson Currently with NE, has 10 years of coaching experience with Belichick.


I want the offense to attach attach attach, and I want the defense to confuse confuse confuse

Malloy
10-13-2009, 04:26 AM
Jeff Fisher if he became available if i had to pick a HC ..

he could scare that defense up .

and probably keep the offense coaches in tack, except for the offensive line

If Fisher continues turning out Ls in Nashville he may be on the market. I'm thinking D-coordinator, but chances are he would be offered a HC job somewhere.

Personally I think that we'll have RS and Kubiak next year too, and in a way I kinda want that too. Sure they make mistakes, but getting a new coach equals uncertainty due to philosophy and players targeted. I'll rather have some consistancy at FO, and hopefully we'll continue to progress.

Marcus
10-13-2009, 04:40 AM
Is it just me or is it every time there is a thread that actually names names of who they want to coach the future Texans, the names make you nauseated.

No, it's not just you, TC.

Let me ask a question to all you coach-changers? Of the 1st year coaches that have their teams on a winning record, did you ever hear of them before?

Thought so.

painekiller
10-13-2009, 05:05 PM
No, it's not just you, TC.

Let me ask a question to all you coach-changers? Of the 1st year coaches that have their teams on a winning record, did you ever hear of them before?

Thought so.

Been following Rex Ryan for over 10years. Was mad when we over looked him to hire Kubiak.

Carr Bombed
10-13-2009, 05:07 PM
No, it's not just you, TC.

Let me ask a question to all you coach-changers? Of the 1st year coaches that have their teams on a winning record, did you ever hear of them before?

Thought so.

Yeah I heard about Rex Ryan plenty of times and McDaniels is winning with defense....Mike Nolan was a huge pick up.

Wolf6151
10-13-2009, 05:30 PM
Just throwing some other names out there:

Ron Rivera-San Diego
Sean McDermott-Philadelphia
Greg Williams-New Orleans

Opinions?

nero THE zero
10-13-2009, 05:35 PM
Anyone know why the other HC thread was deleted?

Double Barrel
10-13-2009, 05:43 PM
Anyone know why the other HC thread was deleted?

It's right here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64514).

nero THE zero
10-13-2009, 05:47 PM
It's right here (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64514).

No, it is one that was several pages long that I was posting in earlier today that disappeared this afternoon.

Second Honeymoon
10-13-2009, 06:02 PM
John Gruden sucks. His players didnt even like him. Hes nothing but an attention whore. Look at me, look at me I make stupid faces to get attention. Barf!!!!! If we hired him I would never watch another Texans game again.

so if the Texans hired a Super Bowl winning coach, you would be so angry that you would no longer be a fan because 'John Gruden Sucks'....Such loyalty is to be truly admired. gg

You are basically parroting what ESPN said about the reason he was fired when it was first reported. It caught people by surprise and no one knew the real reason so people built up the fact that he had problems with his players such as Keyshawn and he had an injury/surgery beef with Simeon Rice. Both guys not exactly team oriented. ESPN had to come up with a reason other than 'He ticked off the Glazers (owners) by asking to improve the team and coaching staff and the Glazers couldn't really afford to because they were so leveraged with buying Manchester United, the #1 sports franchise in the world.'

Gruden is an excellent coach with a proven track record and contrary to sheeple opinion, he gets along with his players very well. The players he ever had a problem with were locker room cancers like Keyshawn Johnson. Ask true gamers like Sapp and Brooks and Lynch and Barber and Alstott what they thought of Gruden.

You bring Gruden in and ask him to keep Bruce Matthews, Marciano, and Kollar (who looks to have found even a little something with Okoye). Let Gruden decide the rest of the staff's fate.

Second Honeymoon
10-13-2009, 06:09 PM
Just throwing some other names out there:

Ron Rivera-San Diego
Sean McDermott-Philadelphia
Greg Williams-New Orleans

Opinions?

Other than Williams, no HC experience. I will take someone who has done the job and has assembled a staff over guys that are new to the position. We have already tried that with Kubiak and it hasn't exactly worked out.

Goldensilence
10-13-2009, 06:19 PM
GM - I know he's a bit old but the man can identify good talent. Why not Dick Vermeil? Floyd Reese wouldn't be a bad hire. He might like the idea of sticking it to Bud twice a year. Too bad Ron Wolf is unlikely to come out of retirement. Either way I agree that we need an autonomous GM.

HC - I like Schott and I think he's great at identifying talent and working towards team strengths. I'm not the biggest Gruden fan, but I think he'd be an upgrade over Kubiak. I just don't think he upgraded the talent in Tampa consistently. The 0-5 Tampa team is a partial by product of Gruden and the players he brought in. I think Holmgren is looking at the East coast, and will likely take over in DC if you ask me.

OC- hahaha lil Shanny. Man Dereklee you are on something. If we brought in Schott I think there'd be a chance we could land his son. Personally if the HC could get along with him, Mike Martz would have a field day working with the WR corps. I wouldn't mind seeing if Steve Mariuchi (Sp) is interested as well.

DC - Let's see is we could pry Ron Rivera away from the Chargers. Other then that I'd look at the staff of Baltimore, Jets, Eagles, and Giants.

DerekLee1
10-14-2009, 10:14 AM
Been following Rex Ryan for over 10years. Was mad when we over looked him to hire Kubiak.

Likewise!!!

BigBull17
10-14-2009, 12:02 PM
Holmgren and Cowher would be longshots. That's a given. Shanahan wont happen for obvious reasons.

Of the other proven winning candidates, that leaves Schotty and Gruden. Schotty would bring some quality coaches with him but is a little long in the tooth for me. Ask Bucs fan if they want Gruden back?

For some reason there seems to be this Gruden hatred but what has the guy done besides win? He took BRAD JOHNSON!! to the Super Bowl and WON IT!! Dungy couldn't do it and Gruden did. He also helped build and mold a Raiders team into a Super Bowl contender and once he left.....they went to hell. He leaves the Bucs this year, and they go from playoff contender to #1 overall pick contender.

Gruden would bring proven coaching staff that has already worked under him and he would bring some of the fire and passion and intensity that this current team so sorely lacks.

We would be lucky to have Jon Gruden as our coach. He is the best guy that we would have a realistic chance at grabbing.

Bring Bruce Allen as his GM partner, and fill in OC and DC with some good coaching.

And while you are at it, try luring a real difference maker to our team in Free Agency.

I agree 100% on Gruden. People say he won with Dungy's team, but I didn't see Dungy win with that team. Dungy won with Peyton vs Grossman. I'll take Gruden. I wouldn't mind Schotty's son if Marty is on staff.

BigBull17
10-14-2009, 12:06 PM
Not a bad choice, especially if he brings his son as OC.

Maybe to groom for HC in the future.

mussop
10-14-2009, 12:55 PM
so if the Texans hired a Super Bowl winning coach, you would be so angry that you would no longer be a fan because 'John Gruden Sucks'....Such loyalty is to be truly admired. gg

You are basically parroting what ESPN said about the reason he was fired when it was first reported. It caught people by surprise and no one knew the real reason so people built up the fact that he had problems with his players such as Keyshawn and he had an injury/surgery beef with Simeon Rice. Both guys not exactly team oriented. ESPN had to come up with a reason other than 'He ticked off the Glazers (owners) by asking to improve the team and coaching staff and the Glazers couldn't really afford to because they were so leveraged with buying Manchester United, the #1 sports franchise in the world.'

Gruden is an excellent coach with a proven track record and contrary to sheeple opinion, he gets along with his players very well. The players he ever had a problem with were locker room cancers like Keyshawn Johnson. Ask true gamers like Sapp and Brooks and Lynch and Barber and Alstott what they thought of Gruden.

You bring Gruden in and ask him to keep Bruce Matthews, Marciano, and Kollar (who looks to have found even a little something with Okoye). Let Gruden decide the rest of the staff's fate.

Oh Vomit!!!!!! Gruden is a POS and there were plenty of other players than the ones you mentioned that had a beef with him. Like michael clayton and Chris Simms and Jeff Garcia to name a few. Also youre right he does have a proven track record, of mediocrity.

Hers a few tidbits about youre boy wonder coach to chew on.

“Well, Gruden has never groomed a young quarterback,” Sapp acknowledged. “He’s turned some into head cases.”
Exactly. The former Buccaneer QB I talked to on Saturday made the same point. His contention was that Gruden is a perfect fit for a veteran team, not a young rebuilding club.

Gruden, who was 39 when the Bucs beat Oakland in the Super Bowl, went 60-57 in seven seasons, including a 3-2 mark in the playoffs.

Gruden was a rising star when he was hired seven years ago to take over a team built by Tony Dungy, and led it to the Super Bowl win. But Gruden guided the Bucs to the postseason only two more times after becoming the youngest coach to win the NFL title in January 2003.
That wasn't nearly enough for the sons of owner Malcolm Glazer, who took their time before deciding they had seen enough of aging quarterbacks, mediocre drafts and a coach and general manager who often pinned the blame for poor finishes on injuries.

The 9-7 record this season gave Gruden consecutive winning records for the first time since arriving in Tampa Bay, yet still left the Bucs out of the playoffs for the fourth time in six years and prompted the Glazer family to reevaluate the direction of the franchise.
But since going 15-4, including the Super Bowl, in his first season with the Bucs, Gruden went 45-53 and made quick exits from the playoffs at home after winning division titles in 2005 and 2007.
This season's collapse continued a trend of playing poorly late in the year. Since winning the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay is 9-17 in the month of December.

For all the talk of Gruden being an offensive genius, the best finished the Bucs had in his tenure was 18th in scoring offense (three times). The average finish was 21st. Under conservative, play-it-safe Tony Dungy? 20th. Aside from one season, Gruden brought nothing of value to the Buccaneers franchise.

Gruden won a Superbowl with the Bucs in 2003 beating the Raiders (remember them?), but has since had a string of relatively mediocre seasons, including a collapse this year after starting 9-3. Nonetheless, his 9-7 record this year made for his first stretch of consecutive winning seasons since arriving in Tampa Bay.

Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl in his first season in Tampa Bay. In the next six seasons the Buccaneers went 0-2 in playoff games, missed the postseason four times and lost their final four games this season — including a loss at home to the Raiders in the season finale — to miss the playoffs after starting 9-3.

Gruden was 57-55 and was a favorite of television cameras, who captured his outsize facial expressions and made him a star with the nickname Chucky after the horror movie doll. But his recent playoff failures almost certainly figured heavily in the decision by the Glazer family, who famously fired Tony Dungy even though he took the Bucs to the playoffs four out of his last five seasons in Tampa.
When Dungy failed to win a Super Bowl, Gruden was brought in and promptly won with a team that was largely Dungy’s creation. Gruden was a disciple of Mike Holmgren, and his tenure was marked by a nearly constant obsession with the quarterback position. The Bucs won the 2002 Super Bowl with Brad Johnson, a journeyman who did not delight Gruden and sent him on a quest for a quarterback more like the ones he worked with as an assistant earlier in his career: Steve Young and Brett Favre.

Gruden cycled through, among others, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Bruce Gradkowski and Jeff Garcia, annoying all of them at some point with his wandering eye. Despite Gruden’s reputation as an offensive guru — and particularly as a developer of quarterbacks — the Bucs never found consistency in the offense, relying almost exclusively on the defense for success.

In the wake of Jon Gruden's somewhat surprising exit from Tampa Bay, there have been quite a few reactions from players and analysts across the league. Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk cites a league source that claims several veteran players were fed up with Gruden being somewhat of a "turncoat," and telling guys one thing, and then going and doing the opposite.

Wide receiver Michael Clayton, for example, offered up this comment, courtesy of the St. Petersburg Times:
"How do you build a championship team with all the inconsistency? You have to do it the right way. I've always been a person who feels like you reap what you sow. You have to treat people fairly.'' When asked what he wished Gruden would've done differently, Clayton said, "It's about showing more confidence in your players. He was kind of a turncoat. He'd tell you one thing and then do something else.''

Some of the harshest criticism came from analysts Pete Prisco and Shaun King. Prisco offered up some scathing criticism of Gruden's revolving door at the quarterback position, which never really seemed to be settled this season.

"Jon Gruden never understood that it's the quarterbacks that drive NFL teams. And it cost him his job. Gruden was arrogant enough as a coach to think his schemes could overcome the lack of a quality quarterback."

Ouch. Tampa Bay entered the season with Jeff Garcia as its starting quarterback, and after he struggled in the season opener -- and also suffered an injury, which seemed to be open to debate as to how serious it really was -- Gruden turned the job over to Brian Griese for four weeks. After Griese struggled in his four starts -- and also suffered an injury -- the job became Garcia's again as the Buccaneers roared out to a 9-3 start, entering a Monday night contest in Carolina in control of their own destiny for a division title.

And that's where things started to go wrong.

From that point on, the Buccaneers' rock-solid defense turned into a gaping hole of futility, as they dropped their final four games of the regular season, including a Week 17 game, at home, against Gruden's former team, the Oakland Raiders.

Shaun King, currently an analyst with ESPN and a former Tampa Bay quarterback, said he wasn't surprised by Gruden's firing, and that it may have come a year or two too late.

I dont know why people like this guy. Hes a jerk and other than winning a Superbowl with someone elses team has done nothing but make stupid faces to make sure he got air time on T.V.. If we hire him it will be obvious that McNair isnt intelligent enough to ever make us a winner.

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2009, 01:47 PM
No, it's not just you, TC.

Let me ask a question to all you coach-changers? Of the 1st year coaches that have their teams on a winning record, did you ever hear of them before?

Thought so.

marcus, the fact that you are calling for more Kubiak means that Kubiak needs to go. this wont be the first time you have been wrong and it surely wont be the last. if it were up to you, we would probably still have Carr as QB and still blaming the OL, so excuse me if your opinion is worth doo-doo re: Texans.

as for the first year coaches, people had heard of Ryan, Spagnulo, Sporano, and McDaniel. Coach Smith in Atlanta was a guy that came out of nowhere and thats about it.

if you want to keep championing losers like Kubiak and Carr, feel free to do so, but to act like everything is fine and people who want a change are off-base is just ignorant and outs you as a homer and a Kubiak fanboy.

Second Honeymoon
10-14-2009, 01:55 PM
Oh Vomit!!!!!! Gruden is a POS and there were plenty of other players than the ones you mentioned that had a beef with him. Like michael clayton and Chris Simms and Jeff Garcia to name a few. Also youre right he does have a proven track record, of mediocrity.

Hers a few tidbits about youre boy wonder coach to chew on.

“Well, Gruden has never groomed a young quarterback,” Sapp acknowledged. “He’s turned some into head cases.”
Exactly. The former Buccaneer QB I talked to on Saturday made the same point. His contention was that Gruden is a perfect fit for a veteran team, not a young rebuilding club.

Gruden, who was 39 when the Bucs beat Oakland in the Super Bowl, went 60-57 in seven seasons, including a 3-2 mark in the playoffs.

Gruden was a rising star when he was hired seven years ago to take over a team built by Tony Dungy, and led it to the Super Bowl win. But Gruden guided the Bucs to the postseason only two more times after becoming the youngest coach to win the NFL title in January 2003.
That wasn't nearly enough for the sons of owner Malcolm Glazer, who took their time before deciding they had seen enough of aging quarterbacks, mediocre drafts and a coach and general manager who often pinned the blame for poor finishes on injuries.

The 9-7 record this season gave Gruden consecutive winning records for the first time since arriving in Tampa Bay, yet still left the Bucs out of the playoffs for the fourth time in six years and prompted the Glazer family to reevaluate the direction of the franchise.
But since going 15-4, including the Super Bowl, in his first season with the Bucs, Gruden went 45-53 and made quick exits from the playoffs at home after winning division titles in 2005 and 2007.
This season's collapse continued a trend of playing poorly late in the year. Since winning the Super Bowl, Tampa Bay is 9-17 in the month of December.

For all the talk of Gruden being an offensive genius, the best finished the Bucs had in his tenure was 18th in scoring offense (three times). The average finish was 21st. Under conservative, play-it-safe Tony Dungy? 20th. Aside from one season, Gruden brought nothing of value to the Buccaneers franchise.

Gruden won a Superbowl with the Bucs in 2003 beating the Raiders (remember them?), but has since had a string of relatively mediocre seasons, including a collapse this year after starting 9-3. Nonetheless, his 9-7 record this year made for his first stretch of consecutive winning seasons since arriving in Tampa Bay.

Jon Gruden won a Super Bowl in his first season in Tampa Bay. In the next six seasons the Buccaneers went 0-2 in playoff games, missed the postseason four times and lost their final four games this season — including a loss at home to the Raiders in the season finale — to miss the playoffs after starting 9-3.

Gruden was 57-55 and was a favorite of television cameras, who captured his outsize facial expressions and made him a star with the nickname Chucky after the horror movie doll. But his recent playoff failures almost certainly figured heavily in the decision by the Glazer family, who famously fired Tony Dungy even though he took the Bucs to the playoffs four out of his last five seasons in Tampa.
When Dungy failed to win a Super Bowl, Gruden was brought in and promptly won with a team that was largely Dungy’s creation. Gruden was a disciple of Mike Holmgren, and his tenure was marked by a nearly constant obsession with the quarterback position. The Bucs won the 2002 Super Bowl with Brad Johnson, a journeyman who did not delight Gruden and sent him on a quest for a quarterback more like the ones he worked with as an assistant earlier in his career: Steve Young and Brett Favre.

Gruden cycled through, among others, Brian Griese, Chris Simms, Bruce Gradkowski and Jeff Garcia, annoying all of them at some point with his wandering eye. Despite Gruden’s reputation as an offensive guru — and particularly as a developer of quarterbacks — the Bucs never found consistency in the offense, relying almost exclusively on the defense for success.

In the wake of Jon Gruden's somewhat surprising exit from Tampa Bay, there have been quite a few reactions from players and analysts across the league. Mike Florio of Pro Football Talk cites a league source that claims several veteran players were fed up with Gruden being somewhat of a "turncoat," and telling guys one thing, and then going and doing the opposite.

Wide receiver Michael Clayton, for example, offered up this comment, courtesy of the St. Petersburg Times:
"How do you build a championship team with all the inconsistency? You have to do it the right way. I've always been a person who feels like you reap what you sow. You have to treat people fairly.'' When asked what he wished Gruden would've done differently, Clayton said, "It's about showing more confidence in your players. He was kind of a turncoat. He'd tell you one thing and then do something else.''

Some of the harshest criticism came from analysts Pete Prisco and Shaun King. Prisco offered up some scathing criticism of Gruden's revolving door at the quarterback position, which never really seemed to be settled this season.

"Jon Gruden never understood that it's the quarterbacks that drive NFL teams. And it cost him his job. Gruden was arrogant enough as a coach to think his schemes could overcome the lack of a quality quarterback."

Ouch. Tampa Bay entered the season with Jeff Garcia as its starting quarterback, and after he struggled in the season opener -- and also suffered an injury, which seemed to be open to debate as to how serious it really was -- Gruden turned the job over to Brian Griese for four weeks. After Griese struggled in his four starts -- and also suffered an injury -- the job became Garcia's again as the Buccaneers roared out to a 9-3 start, entering a Monday night contest in Carolina in control of their own destiny for a division title.

And that's where things started to go wrong.

From that point on, the Buccaneers' rock-solid defense turned into a gaping hole of futility, as they dropped their final four games of the regular season, including a Week 17 game, at home, against Gruden's former team, the Oakland Raiders.

Shaun King, currently an analyst with ESPN and a former Tampa Bay quarterback, said he wasn't surprised by Gruden's firing, and that it may have come a year or two too late.

I dont know why people like this guy. Hes a jerk and other than winning a Superbowl with someone elses team has done nothing but make stupid faces to make sure he got air time on T.V.. If we hire him it will be obvious that McNair isnt intelligent enough to ever make us a winner.

so because Chris Simms and Jeff Garcia were upset about playing time and because a loser like Clayton didn't like Gruden we are supposed to discount all the good word from REAL players like Sapp, Brooks, Barber, and the rest?

whatever, its sounds like Gruden stole your girlfriend or something else.

But at least you were able to cut and paste someone else's opinion. very impressive skills there. its obvious to anyone with a pulse that King has an axe to grind and is obviously bitter over not being named the starter.

This article slams Gruden for not having a good QB but the guy writing the article was one of the bad QBs that Gruden had. Gruden can be blamed for trying to go on the cheap with QBs but that is because he rarely drafted early enough to get a decent QB and anytime he did have decent QB play, his teams would do well.

you sure have a lot of negative things to say about other peoples ideas and opinions yet are woefully short of your own ideas. you probably want them to keep Kubiak and re-sign him to a new contract.

Double Barrel
10-14-2009, 03:18 PM
Jon Gruden > Gary Kubiak > Dom Capers :worm:

LonerATO
10-14-2009, 05:06 PM
On that JRIB today they were talking about Synder hiring Gruden at the end of the year.

mussop
10-14-2009, 07:37 PM
so because Chris Simms and Jeff Garcia were upset about playing time and because a loser like Clayton didn't like Gruden we are supposed to discount all the good word from REAL players like Sapp, Brooks, Barber, and the rest?

whatever, its sounds like Gruden stole your girlfriend or something else.

But at least you were able to cut and paste someone else's opinion. very impressive skills there. its obvious to anyone with a pulse that King has an axe to grind and is obviously bitter over not being named the starter.

This article slams Gruden for not having a good QB but the guy writing the article was one of the bad QBs that Gruden had. Gruden can be blamed for trying to go on the cheap with QBs but that is because he rarely drafted early enough to get a decent QB and anytime he did have decent QB play, his teams would do well.

you sure have a lot of negative things to say about other peoples ideas and opinions yet are woefully short of your own ideas. you probably want them to keep Kubiak and re-sign him to a new contract.

So youre stooping to personal attacts? I guess you are backed into a corner intellectually.

Chriss Simms was jerked around by Gruden and it was well documented. There were many telling facts in my skillfull cut and paste job. To bad youre man crush on Chucky wont allow to acknowlege them.

Also love the word play like when you say "because a loser like Clayton didn't like Gruden we are supposed to discount all the good word from REAL players like Sapp, Brooks, Barber, and the rest?". Thats a real talent you have there adding words real and rest to make youre stance sound better, even though it really makes youre argument look weak to intelligent posters. Rest? Care to elaborate? Im sure you wont because there are just as many players that had bad things to say about him as there were players that had good things to say.

Show me another coach that had as many players dis him after he was let go than Gruden. Bet you cant.


Here is some facts for you.

After going 15-4, including the Super Bowl with the team Dungy built, in his first season with the Bucs, Gruden went 45-53 and made quick exits from the playoffs at home. The best finish the Bucs had in his tenure was 18th in scoring offense (three times). The average finish was 21st. Under conservative, play-it-safe Tony Dungy? And this is from the offensive master mind you think is so great? You consider that an excellent coach resume? THANK GOD youre not the Owner.

Another thing, you say I have a lot of negative things to say about other peoples ideas? Look at you!

marcus, the fact that you are calling for more Kubiak means that Kubiak needs to go. this wont be the first time you have been wrong and it surely wont be the last. if it were up to you, we would probably still have Carr as QB and still blaming the OL, so excuse me if your opinion is worth doo-doo re: Texans.

if you want to keep championing losers like Kubiak and Carr, feel free to do so, but to act like everything is fine and people who want a change are off-base is just ignorant and outs you as a homer and a Kubiak fanboy.


Mm mm mm, obviously you get backed into that corner alot. If you want to keep champoining a loser like Gruden, feel free to do so, but to act like everything is fine and people who dont want that loser are off-base is just ignorant and outs you as a Chuky lover and fanboy. :clap: :clap:

Youre move!:good:

mussop
10-14-2009, 07:49 PM
Jon Gruden > Gary Kubiak > Dom Capers :worm:

:thinking: Thats not saying much. :shades: