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badboy
10-09-2009, 02:31 PM
Posting on another thread about my prediction of a win Sunday, I found myself gushing about Cushing. Soon, I think we will be refering to the Texans as BC (Before Cushing). Most of you know I was not interested in drafting a linebacker in the first. Nothing against Cush or Matthews for that matter. I wanted a DT or Malcom Jenkins. It was great to see Cush play so well especially after the oh oh here we go injury. Yet that is just one side. I am even more interested in the fiery leader that he can become and that we do not have. Sure one can point to only four games but is there any indicator he is going to do anything but get better skill wise?

Dunta? He can lay the wood, sometimes, but really needs to get back into the groove. He also has to win back many fans. I think DR and the others especially Okoye and Diles will benefit from Brian's play and his take no prisoner mentality. He is the type player that motivate the offense. AJ could be the vocal point but it will be interesting to see how he expresses himself during this game. Will he just be a good receiver or will he continue with his recent "I'm going to beat you and there is nothing you can do" attitude we recently marveled at.

I think if Cushing continues and remains healthy, it will be like getting two players with one pick. Now if we could just get Taylor Mays ...

m5kwatts
10-09-2009, 02:58 PM
I posted last week that right now Cushing is playing the best on the defense. I actually hone in on watching just him when our defense is on the field because I know he'll be around the ball to make the tackle. He's playing a lot better than Aaron Curry, drafted 4th by the Seahawks. Actually, if you think about it he's playing better than any of the defensive players picked before him right now.

As for next year's draft, I hope we trade up and make it a point to get Berry or Mays. I would give up our 1st and 3rd to swap with a team to get higher to draft one of those two. Mays will go in the top 10 and I can't imagine Berry lasting much longer after.

Here's a question... whats the most you'd give up to draft Berry/Mays? If it came down to it would you give up a 2nd (and obviously swapping 1sts to trade up)?

nunusguy
10-09-2009, 03:12 PM
As for next year's draft, I hope we trade up and make it a point to get Berry or Mays. I would give up our 1st and 3rd to swap with a team to get higher to draft one of those two. Mays will go in the top 10 and I can't imagine Berry lasting much longer after.

I continue to place a higher value on an outstanding corner than an outstanding safety. We need both but I've told you where my priority is.

gtexan02
10-09-2009, 03:16 PM
IF the scouting determines that Mays or Berry are substationally better than the safeties that will be available mid 1st round (where we will undoubtedly be picking) then I have no problem trading up with something valuable. We've been pretty poor historically in the 2nd round, so why not

m5kwatts
10-09-2009, 03:21 PM
I continue to place a higher value on an outstanding corner than an outstanding safety. We need both but I've told you where my priority is.

I know, I don't see corner as big of a need as a safety though. Besides I think GQ can be a starting corner on a good defense and BM has a lot of upside. And were paying Reeves and Dunta starters money. I don't think giving a first round corner starters money when at best they'll be a nickel or dime CB makes sense. Especially with the huge hole at safety.

Berry and Mays are in a class of their own as far as safetys for next year's draft. The debate will be who comes in as the 3rd guy. And whoever it is, they won't be the impact Berry or Mays is.

will742
10-09-2009, 03:23 PM
Here's a question... whats the most you'd give up to draft Berry/Mays? If it came down to it would you give up a 2nd (and obviously swapping 1sts to trade up)?

I'm not very familiar with trade value as far as draft picks go, but say (hypothetically) that we are picking at #19, would a second rounder alone allow us to move that far?

m5kwatts
10-09-2009, 03:27 PM
I'm not very familiar with trade value as far as draft picks go, but say (hypothetically) that we are picking at #19, would a second rounder alone allow us to move that far?

So if we were picking at 19, say Mays is there at #8 and the #8 team wants to trade out. What that team would want is our #19 pick and another pick or two and we trade up and pick at #8. My question is, is giving up a 2nd round pick along with our 19th worth it for one of those safetys? This draft is LOADED with talent, its gonna be one of the best drafts in a long time. So trading into the top 10 will be expensive, and I would guess that the team picking in the top 10 trading out would want a 2nd (and possibly more picks, 4th, 5th rounder or whatever) to go along with swapping 1sts.

Goldensilence
10-09-2009, 03:31 PM
I posted last week that right now Cushing is playing the best on the defense. I actually hone in on watching just him when our defense is on the field because I know he'll be around the ball to make the tackle. He's playing a lot better than Aaron Curry, drafted 4th by the Seahawks. Actually, if you think about it he's playing better than any of the defensive players picked before him right now.

As for next year's draft, I hope we trade up and make it a point to get Berry or Mays. I would give up our 1st and 3rd to swap with a team to get higher to draft one of those two. Mays will go in the top 10 and I can't imagine Berry lasting much longer after.

Here's a question... whats the most you'd give up to draft Berry/Mays? If it came down to it would you give up a 2nd (and obviously swapping 1sts to trade up)?

I still have questions about our CBs, DTs, and interior of the line. Only way I'd make a big move for Mays or Berry is if I really felt like either one of those guys elevates the defense enough to be a playoff contender. Berry perhaps, Mays I'm still not sold on being worth it. I can't also help but wonder if both of those guys really are off the board after the top 10-15.

badboy
10-09-2009, 03:52 PM
I posted last week that right now Cushing is playing the best on the defense. I actually hone in on watching just him when our defense is on the field because I know he'll be around the ball to make the tackle. He's playing a lot better than Aaron Curry, drafted 4th by the Seahawks. Actually, if you think about it he's playing better than any of the defensive players picked before him right now.

As for next year's draft, I hope we trade up and make it a point to get Berry or Mays. I would give up our 1st and 3rd to swap with a team to get higher to draft one of those two. Mays will go in the top 10 and I can't imagine Berry lasting much longer after.

Here's a question... whats the most you'd give up to draft Berry/Mays? If it came down to it would you give up a 2nd (and obviously swapping 1sts to trade up)?I have to say no to most trade ups. I don't know as much about Berry. We can get by at SS with what we have, especially if Pollard plays well. We got to have a FS, a guard, a power back and probably a CB and DT. I do not see a DT with what I am looking for, a big run stopping dude similar to Terrence Cody; but I'm unsure he will translate to NFL. Maybe one or two FA but not really sure about that availability and Hampton will be 33. So, free safety, RB, corner and guard= 4 picks. If my board says Gerhart the 3rd best RB 6'1"235 4.55 in 2nd, no way do I give a #2 for a FS, especially if I think Mays will slide a bit like Jenkins last draft. We have 13 weeks to develop the corners. Maybe it's Reeves and DR, maybe Quinn and/or McCain are players and we do not have to use a higher selection (my board has Murphy from S. Florida in 3rd and no slip later). In 4th & 5th I can get my center and center/guard combo. Draft looks like this

1. Mays FS on a trade up giving a 3
2. Gerhart PWR RB
3. trade up?
4. Austin OG/C/T is my center
5a TJ trade Eric Olsen N.D. C/LG/T is my LG
5b Best CB

Free agency? Hope I can land an Anthony Montgomery 6'6" 330 Redskin DT 2 sacks in 2008 23 tackles. Not much playing time but should get him cheap.

badboy
10-09-2009, 03:56 PM
I know, I don't see corner as big of a need as a safety though. Besides I think GQ can be a starting corner on a good defense and BM has a lot of upside. And were paying Reeves and Dunta starters money. I don't think giving a first round corner starters money when at best they'll be a nickel or dime CB makes sense. Especially with the huge hole at safety.

Berry and Mays are in a class of their own as far as safetys for next year's draft. The debate will be who comes in as the 3rd guy. And whoever it is, they won't be the impact Berry or Mays is.I agree and in this draft, I think a very good corner can be selected round 3, not so for FS unless it is a CB convert to FS.

badboy
10-09-2009, 03:58 PM
So if we were picking at 19, say Mays is there at #8 and the #8 team wants to trade out. What that team would want is our #19 pick and another pick or two and we trade up and pick at #8. My question is, is giving up a 2nd round pick along with our 19th worth it for one of those safetys? This draft is LOADED with talent, its gonna be one of the best drafts in a long time. So trading into the top 10 will be expensive, and I would guess that the team picking in the top 10 trading out would want a 2nd (and possibly more picks, 4th, 5th rounder or whatever) to go along with swapping 1sts.In this scenario, absolutely no trade! As you point out too much available at what we need to give up that much.

Wolf
10-09-2009, 04:05 PM
Posting on another thread about my prediction of a win Sunday, I found myself gushing about Cushing. Soon, I think we will be refering to the Texans as BC (Before Cushing). Most of you know I was not interested in drafting a linebacker in the first. Nothing against Cush or Matthews for that matter. I wanted a DT or Malcom Jenkins. It was great to see Cush play so well especially after the oh oh here we go injury. Yet that is just one side. I am even more interested in the fiery leader that he can become and that we do not have. Sure one can point to only four games but is there any indicator he is going to do anything but get better skill wise?

Dunta? He can lay the wood, sometimes, but really needs to get back into the groove. He also has to win back many fans. I think DR and the others especially Okoye and Diles will benefit from Brian's play and his take no prisoner mentality. He is the type player that motivate the offense. AJ could be the vocal point but it will be interesting to see how he expresses himself during this game. Will he just be a good receiver or will he continue with his recent "I'm going to beat you and there is nothing you can do" attitude we recently marveled at.

I think if Cushing continues and remains healthy, it will be like getting two players with one pick. Now if we could just get Taylor Mays ...

yep, I used to refer to the Texans as A.D (After David)

Hooston Texan
10-09-2009, 04:12 PM
IF the scouting determines that Mays or Berry are substationally better than the safeties that will be available mid 1st round (where we will undoubtedly be picking) then I have no problem trading up with something valuable. We've been pretty poor historically in the 2nd round, so why not

Have to take issue with that statement. Even taking into account the Casserly years, our second round picks have been pretty good when we've deigned to use them at the draft podium. These are all the second-round picks of the Texans, in order: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Bennie Joppru, DeMeco Ryans, Connor Barwin. Pitts and Ryans were excellent picks. Gaffney was an OK one, and Joppru busted because of injuries. Jury is still obviously out on Barwin; heck, we're barely into the trial for him.

It's been when we've tried to get tricky with our second rounders that we ran into serious trouble. Burning one to take Tony Hollings in the supplemental draft. Trading another (and a slew of later picks) to Bud Adams in order to draft Jason Babin. Trading yet another for Philip Buchanon. The only trade we made involving second-rounders that wasn't a complete disaster was the Schaub deal, and we're still debating whether two seconds was too steep a price (my take: we got a steal, but I'm biased).

As for the question about trading up from a theoretical draft slot of 19 to get pick #8, we'd be giving up 1265 points (#19 is 875 and the second rounder is 390) to get a 1400 point pick. Going strictly on the point chart, that's a bit unbalanced. However, top 10 picks are financial albatrosses these days, and teams may be chomping at the bit to trade out of the top ten, so #8 could go for that deal.

I still doubt I'd do that deal, though. I've heard there are as many as four projected first round safeties. If so, then we should get one of them so long as we aren't picking at the very end of draft. And if we do end up with such a late pick, maybe our need at safety isn't so urgent after all.

m5kwatts
10-09-2009, 04:18 PM
I have to say no to most trade ups. I don't know as much about Berry. We can get by at SS with what we have, especially if Pollard plays well. We got to have a FS, a guard, a power back and probably a CB and DT. I do not see a DT with what I am looking for, a big run stopping dude similar to Terrence Cody; but I'm unsure he will translate to NFL. Maybe one or two FA but not really sure about that availability and Hampton will be 33. So, free safety, RB, corner and guard= 4 picks. If my board says Gerhart the 3rd best RB 6'1"235 4.55 in 2nd, no way do I give a #2 for a FS, especially if I think Mays will slide a bit like Jenkins last draft. We have 13 weeks to develop the corners. Maybe it's Reeves and DR, maybe Quinn and/or McCain are players and we do not have to use a higher selection (my board has Murphy from S. Florida in 3rd and no slip later). In 4th & 5th I can get my center and center/guard combo. Draft looks like this

1. Mays FS on a trade up giving a 3
2. Gerhart PWR RB
3. trade up?
4. Austin OG/C/T is my center
5a TJ trade Eric Olsen N.D. C/LG/T is my LG
5b Best CB

Free agency? Hope I can land an Anthony Montgomery 6'6" 330 Redskin DT 2 sacks in 2008 23 tackles. Not much playing time but should get him cheap.


This draft has a lot of good DTs actually... ESPN the Mag did a piece on the best DTs coming out... Suh and McCoy obviously were on there, they're both probably top 5-7 picks... two interesting under-the-radar DTs mentioned were Marvin Austin UNC (6'3" 305) and Arthur Jones (6'2" 293)... and before someone says "no more smallish DTs!" the article says both guys play way stronger than their weight, they have NFL DT bodies and push the pocket. More importantly they could be there in the 2nd/3rd round... Terrence Cody was mentioned but I didn't like that they mentioned he takes WAY too many plays off including in big games. But he has the body (6'5" 365)

I don't think we'll be looking at RB or G/C/T in the first 2 rounds because of philosophy and the fact that we have just added Duane Brown and Caldwell with high picks....

My point is our other main positions of need DT, RB, G can be addressed later. This draft is stacked with talent and its deep.

badboy
10-09-2009, 04:21 PM
This draft has a lot of good DTs actually... ESPN the Mag did a piece on the best DTs coming out... Suh and McCoy obviously were on there, they're both probably top 5-7 picks... two interesting under-the-radar DTs mentioned were Marvin Austin UNC (6'3" 305) and Arthur Jones (6'2" 293)... and before someone says "no more smallish DTs!" the article says both guys play way stronger than their weight, they have NFL DT bodies and push the pocket. More importantly they could be there in the 2nd/3rd round... Terrence Cody was mentioned but I didn't like that they mentioned he takes WAY too many plays off including in big games. But he has the body (6'5" 365)

I don't think we'll be looking at RB or G/C/T in the first 2 rounds because of philosophy and the fact that we have just added Duane Brown and Caldwell with high picks....

My point is our other main positions of need DT, RB, G can be addressed later. This draft is stacked with talent and its deep.Despite your comment, a lighter weight DT better be superman based on what I've seen.

gary
10-09-2009, 04:22 PM
Any chance that Cush makes the Probowl if he were to continue to play at this level or get even better?

m5kwatts
10-09-2009, 04:27 PM
Despite your comment, a lighter weight DT better be superman based on what I've seen.

Haha, hey I thought the same thing, I looked at those guys' size before even reading the paragraph about them and thought "same old story"

Heres Arthur Jones' piece:

"Might be the next: Kevin Williams. Already is: Way stronger than a typical 293 pounder. Just watch a few minutes of Jones latching onto, then chucking opposing lineman with his powerful mitts and dominating upper-body strength. Sure, he's better at stuffing the run than collapsing the pocket, but thats still worth 2 mil a year in the NFL."

And Marvin Austin:
"Might be the next: Sedrick Ellis. Already is: As physically talented as anyone in the college game. At 6'3 305 Austin is almost impossible to push off the line, so he's constantly creating clogs. He needs to learn to use his hands better to chuck blockers better. Still he has the size and speed to rack up plenty of tackles for loss in the NFL."

As for Cody, it mentions he has big time bust factor and that he could go anywhere from 10th overall to 50th overall.

texasguy346
10-09-2009, 04:31 PM
Any chance that Cush makes the Probowl if he were to continue to play at this level or get even better?

As a rookie OLB he'll have a tough time making the Pro Bowl. Remember Ryans didn't make the Pro Bowl his rookie year even though he was named the DROY. Cushing would have to have a phenomenal year to oust players like Suggs, Dumervil, Harrison, etc. for a Pro Bowl spot. With the high number of teams playing the 3-4 defense he'd be competing against OLBs with higher sack totals and better name recognition. I'd love to see him get that kind of honor though, but he may end up making the trip in his second year like Demeco did.

gary
10-09-2009, 04:40 PM
As a rookie OLB he'll have a tough time making the Pro Bowl. Remember Ryans didn't make the Pro Bowl his rookie year even though he was named the DROY. Cushing would have to have a phenomenal year to oust players like Suggs, Dumervil, Harrison, etc. for a Pro Bowl spot. With the high number of teams playing the 3-4 defense he'd be competing against OLBs with higher sack totals and better name recognition. I'd love to see him get that kind of honor though, but he may end up making the trip in his second year like Demeco did.I'd have to look at his stats and how they compare with other OLB's up till this point.

texasguy346
10-09-2009, 04:43 PM
I'd have to look at his stats and how they compare with other OLB's up till this point.

So far Dumervil is having a fantastic season. He's tied for the league lead with 8 sacks. It will be interesting to see how things shake out during the rest of the season.

gary
10-09-2009, 05:15 PM
Cush has been doing everything else but sacks those will come though.

davemundy
10-09-2009, 06:35 PM
Posting on another thread about my prediction of a win Sunday, I found myself gushing about Cushing. Soon, I think we will be refering to the Texans as BC (Before Cushing). Most of you know I was not interested in drafting a linebacker in the first. Nothing against Cush or Matthews for that matter. I wanted a DT or Malcom Jenkins. It was great to see Cush play so well especially after the oh oh here we go injury. Yet that is just one side. I am even more interested in the fiery leader that he can become and that we do not have. Sure one can point to only four games but is there any indicator he is going to do anything but get better skill wise?

Dunta? He can lay the wood, sometimes, but really needs to get back into the groove. He also has to win back many fans. I think DR and the others especially Okoye and Diles will benefit from Brian's play and his take no prisoner mentality. He is the type player that motivate the offense. AJ could be the vocal point but it will be interesting to see how he expresses himself during this game. Will he just be a good receiver or will he continue with his recent "I'm going to beat you and there is nothing you can do" attitude we recently marveled at.

I think if Cushing continues and remains healthy, it will be like getting two players with one pick. Now if we could just get Taylor Mays ...

I temnd to agree with you here. I honestly believe that Cushing may have been the steal of this draft. For all that we've grumbled nad griped about Houston's past draft choices, they have two who are proving us all wrong.

b0ng
10-09-2009, 07:07 PM
Here's a question... whats the most you'd give up to draft Berry/Mays? If it came down to it would you give up a 2nd (and obviously swapping 1sts to trade up)?

Honestly, I think Berry is going in the top 5 and Mays is going to end up getting picked apart by draftniks and scouts.

We've been pretty poor historically in the 2nd round, so why not

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_-tVns8qr0Uw/SIhwDy51kYI/AAAAAAAACmc/Guph34GjBNg/s400/ryan.jpg

EDIT: About Cushing going to the PB, it's probably not going to happen. OLB's in the 3-4 end up getting selected to those spots because people refuse to put them in as DE's for whatever reason. 4-3 OLB's just do not rack up the stats like those guys, and it's quite a shame. As long as there's guys getting huge sack numbers playing OLB, guys who beat down running games and can cover just get the shaft.

gary
10-09-2009, 07:16 PM
I bet he'd be in the mix if he had some sacks to add to his stats.

m5kwatts
10-09-2009, 07:36 PM
Honestly, I think Berry is going in the top 5 and Mays is going to end up getting picked apart by draftniks and scouts.

Mays has 4.2.-4.3 speed, hits like a train, has above average NFL safety size and could get picked before Berry.

b0ng
10-09-2009, 07:52 PM
Mays has 4.2.-4.3 speed, hits like a train, has above average NFL safety size and could get picked before Berry.

Teams are going to question why Taylor Mays only has 5 interceptions in 4 years (well he has 5 right now). Eric Berry has 13 interceptions in 3 years (well he has 13 right now) and has run 3 of them back for TD's. No TD's for Mays.

Yes Mays can hit and is big as hell for a safety (I question whether he'll run a 4.2 - 4.3 but that's what the combine/pro days are for) but there are inherent flaws in his game. Eric Berry looks like Ed Reed reincarnated right now and he has a lot less help in his defense than Mays has had over his college career.

EDIT: As far as the "hits like a champ" aspect of Berry's game I submit this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXbGA-d_6Rs). Yes I know the music sucks but oh wells.

m5kwatts
10-09-2009, 09:36 PM
Teams are going to question why Taylor Mays only has 5 interceptions in 4 years (well he has 5 right now). Eric Berry has 13 interceptions in 3 years (well he has 13 right now) and has run 3 of them back for TD's. No TD's for Mays.

Yes Mays can hit and is big as hell for a safety (I question whether he'll run a 4.2 - 4.3 but that's what the combine/pro days are for) but there are inherent flaws in his game. Eric Berry looks like Ed Reed reincarnated right now and he has a lot less help in his defense than Mays has had over his college career.

EDIT: As far as the "hits like a champ" aspect of Berry's game I submit this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXbGA-d_6Rs). Yes I know the music sucks but oh wells.

Mays will blow up the combine and his pro day.. he's a charasmatic kid too and will have great interviews... he's a top 10 lock I think, but I hope you're right and he falls all the way to the Texans.

As for Eric Berry, I'd trade my future first born child AND our 1st rounder for him :joker:

b0ng
10-09-2009, 09:57 PM
Mays will blow up the combine and his pro day.. he's a charasmatic kid too and will have great interviews... he's a top 10 lock I think, but I hope you're right and he falls all the way to the Texans.

As for Eric Berry, I'd trade my future first born child AND our 1st rounder for him :joker:

Yeah. Honestly the whole safety class for this year could be one of the best ever. I could live with Taylor Mays (Hell I didn't like Cushing that much coming out of college, mostly based around injury history and roid accusations) I suppose but he seems more of a "hitter" and less of a coverage threat than what our poor secondary needs. However if he does run a ridiculous 40 when he works out for the pro's I can see Al Davis rearing his crypt keeper head and drafting him really high.

I'm hoping that Berry comes out and says he smokes weed every day and only likes to hang out in Amsterdam and California. Even then he'd probably still go entirely too high for us. Time to start practicing my child sacrifice rituals!

JMacaroni
10-10-2009, 01:20 AM
You're spot on b0ng. Berry is a smaller Ed Reed while Mays is more of an Atwater type. At FS I want a ballhawk, not someone that will knock down a pass instead of intercepting one to win a game. And if Mays runs a 4.2.....well he won't so it doesn't matter. Of course a big hitter back there will make the corners better as well, I'd rather have range with ball skills. It's nice to think of Cushing with Mays though since they both have that headhunter mentality.

texasguy346
10-10-2009, 12:39 PM
I bet he'd be in the mix if he had some sacks to add to his stats.

I agree that if Cushing starts to produce some sacks he could potentially earn a spot on the Pro Bowl or at least as an alternate. Maybe he'll see more chances to rush the QB as the season progresses.

gary
10-10-2009, 01:02 PM
I agree that if Cushing starts to produce some sacks he could potentially earn a spot on the Pro Bowl or at least as an alternate. Maybe he'll see more chances to rush the QB as the season progresses.Right, I love talking football with you Gary some rep headed your way.

TimeKiller
10-10-2009, 01:21 PM
the Cush was in JaRussell's facemask like 4 or 5 times last week. I'll side with the "the sacks will come" people.

I'd trade everything it took to get both of 'em.

Carr Bombed
10-10-2009, 01:22 PM
You're spot on b0ng. Berry is a smaller Ed Reed while Mays is more of an Atwater type. At FS I want a ballhawk, not someone that will knock down a pass instead of intercepting one to win a game. And if Mays runs a 4.2.....well he won't so it doesn't matter. Of course a big hitter back there will make the corners better as well, I'd rather have range with ball skills. It's nice to think of Cushing with Mays though since they both have that headhunter mentality.

Mays doesn't run a 4.2........I highly doubt he'll even turn out a 4.3 at the combine.

b0ng
10-10-2009, 01:45 PM
Mays doesn't run a 4.2........I highly doubt he'll even turn out a 4.3 at the combine.

I think there's a chance he doesn't run the 40 at the combine and elects to wait till USC's pro-day to run on their track due to the lower times. Mays was a sprinting champion in HS so there's always the possibility, but watching him play he's fast but I don't think he's Chris Johnson or DHB fast.

Statis22
10-10-2009, 02:50 PM
Cush is a beast.

Eric Berry will almost be a top 5 pick, we'd have to give up a significant part to get within that range. Mays is top 15. Maybe a 2nd rounder would do it.

Statis22
10-10-2009, 02:57 PM
More of a comparison of Mays would be a Adrian Wilson. He beat a speed guy to the corner last week going for a 1st down on a gimpy knee.

I don't know about the 4.2 speed but the speed whatever it is, is legit.

El Tejano
10-10-2009, 10:23 PM
Teams are going to question why Taylor Mays only has 5 interceptions in 4 years (well he has 5 right now). Eric Berry has 13 interceptions in 3 years (well he has 13 right now) and has run 3 of them back for TD's. No TD's for Mays.

Yes Mays can hit and is big as hell for a safety (I question whether he'll run a 4.2 - 4.3 but that's what the combine/pro days are for) but there are inherent flaws in his game. Eric Berry looks like Ed Reed reincarnated right now and he has a lot less help in his defense than Mays has had over his college career.

EDIT: As far as the "hits like a champ" aspect of Berry's game I submit this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXbGA-d_6Rs). Yes I know the music sucks but oh wells.

That's it, I'm sold.

jppaul
10-10-2009, 11:37 PM
You know, I think that if Cushing reads these threads his head might actually become as big as his neck, but certainly he deserves all the compliments he is receiving.

The sacks will come.

As far as Taylor Mays v. Eric Berry goes, I don't even think it is close. Berry is very talented but Mays is just a freak. I remember a commentator in a late season USC game last year, saying that:

USC has not given up a single deep ball (over 30 yards or something) to this point.

Mays has range that Berry could only dream of, he has size, speed and the instincts to play FS and excel at the NFL level. He is that rangy centerfielder, think a bigger more physical and better Reggie Nelson

jppaul
10-10-2009, 11:39 PM
Cush is a beast.

Eric Berry will almost be a top 5 pick, we'd have to give up a significant part to get within that range. Mays is top 15. Maybe a 2nd rounder would do it.

After all is said and done Taylor Mays will be a top 8 pick and Berry will go right about 15 to 20 range.

jppaul
10-10-2009, 11:55 PM
Next year's draft I would be pretty happy with this:

1) Eric Berry - I suspect we will pick in the low 20s, might want to move up to 15ish using a third round pick and snag Eric Berry, though I would prefer Taylor Mays but he won't be available.

2) Jordan Shipley - KW 2.0 or Wes Welker you choice either way I think he could play the number 2 or kick inside and play the slot. Kid has skills and versatility.

4) Kyle Wilson - Man cover corner added versatility in the PR game.

Later rounds, my sleeper is Clint McPeek WLB who played the same position as Urlacher for the past three seasons. 6'1 230 but this kid can flat out fly, I would suspect 4.4ish.

Most impressive is his top end speed he regularly chases down fast WRs and punt returners with a 10 yard head start, the only other LB I have seen with this kind of makeup speed is Patrick Willis.

JMacaroni
10-11-2009, 01:17 AM
Mays doesn't run a 4.2........I highly doubt he'll even turn out a 4.3 at the combine.

Somebody missed the pre-draft hype before he decided to stay another year. I say 4.43...who cares? He's a big badass safety better than anybody that we currently have, he just has hands like stonewall jackson.

JMacaroni
10-11-2009, 01:29 AM
6'4 guy running a 4.2 would scare me a little, didn't say that he actually did. The rumor was that he did at USC at some point. Not sure the date, time, wind conditions or attendance, but it might not be 100% accurate.

whiskeyrbl
10-11-2009, 01:39 AM
Teams are going to question why Taylor Mays only has 5 interceptions in 4 years (well he has 5 right now). Eric Berry has 13 interceptions in 3 years (well he has 13 right now) and has run 3 of them back for TD's. No TD's for Mays.

Yes Mays can hit and is big as hell for a safety (I question whether he'll run a 4.2 - 4.3 but that's what the combine/pro days are for) but there are inherent flaws in his game. Eric Berry looks like Ed Reed reincarnated right now and he has a lot less help in his defense than Mays has had over his college career.

EDIT: As far as the "hits like a champ" aspect of Berry's game I submit this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DXbGA-d_6Rs). Yes I know the music sucks but oh wells.

WOW! Hadn't seen any of this guy. Thanks for the video. I heard the guy say he avg.'s 34 yrds. per return. Looks like he hits pretty good too. I doubt we have a shot without trading waaaaaaaaaaay up. Atleast I hope that is what we would have to do to get into the top 5-10. And on the subject I think Cush has a great shot a DROY if he stays healthy.

JMacaroni
10-11-2009, 01:47 AM
Berry would be an upgrade to any D in the league, especially ours. He's top notch, once in a decade. But "settling" for Mays? Sounds like Atwater...and you know how we like the old Broncos..

whiskeyrbl
10-11-2009, 02:14 AM
What about Reshad Jones from Georgia? Looks like a top tier Safety also.

JMacaroni
10-11-2009, 03:20 AM
:aggressive:you're right, I just think Mays has that Cushing mentality with that hit he put on that Penn State receiver last year. We're likely to get neither Berry or Mays so we'll see.....but Cushing at LB and Mays hitting like that at safety.....just makes me smile :aggressive:

DavidC
10-11-2009, 06:48 AM
Have to take issue with that statement. Even taking into account the Casserly years, our second round picks have been pretty good when we've deigned to use them at the draft podium. These are all the second-round picks of the Texans, in order: Jabar Gaffney, Chester Pitts, Bennie Joppru, DeMeco Ryans, Connor Barwin. Pitts and Ryans were excellent picks. Gaffney was an OK one, and Joppru busted because of injuries. Jury is still obviously out on Barwin; heck, we're barely into the trial for him.

It's been when we've tried to get tricky with our second rounders that we ran into serious trouble. Burning one to take Tony Hollings in the supplemental draft. Trading another (and a slew of later picks) to Bud Adams in order to draft Jason Babin. Trading yet another for Philip Buchanon. The only trade we made involving second-rounders that wasn't a complete disaster was the Schaub deal, and we're still debating whether two seconds was too steep a price (my take: we got a steal, but I'm biased).

As for the question about trading up from a theoretical draft slot of 19 to get pick #8, we'd be giving up 1265 points (#19 is 875 and the second rounder is 390) to get a 1400 point pick. Going strictly on the point chart, that's a bit unbalanced. However, top 10 picks are financial albatrosses these days, and teams may be chomping at the bit to trade out of the top ten, so #8 could go for that deal.

I still doubt I'd do that deal, though. I've heard there are as many as four projected first round safeties. If so, then we should get one of them so long as we aren't picking at the very end of draft. And if we do end up with such a late pick, maybe our need at safety isn't so urgent after all.

I agree completely with you about Texans not blowing second round picks, but giving them away too often. The 2nd round is full of great role players for football teams, and usually they get signed for 4-5 years at a very low price.

The Texans have been part of 8 drafts so far, but only have 5 2nd round picks (2 in the inaugural season). Pitts was entrenched on the line since day one, and Ryans has been to the pro-bowl. Gaffney would have been better in Houston, if he had someone better to throw to him, just look at what he did for the Patriots for a couple of years; he was a role player, but with drafting AJ the next year did we need more than that out of him? He is still in the league, playing for a team with a 4-0 record.

My point is that you cannot give away second round picks, and hope to hit later in the draft. I have felt for years that the problem we have had with depth on this team is due to a lack of 2nd round picks. I would rather see the Texans trade down next year, and take someone's 1st and 2nd round pick than see them trade up for a higher 1st. I would rather see us draft 3 players in the top 2 rounds than only 1 that we really like who may turn out to be a bust; at least with three players your odds go down dramatically on bust potential.