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YoungTexanFan
02-16-2005, 04:51 PM
Who would you take with the texans pick at #13?



Marcus Spears

Adam Jones

Alex Barron

Shawne Marrion

those are the only guys i think would merrit our pick of the guys that will be left. dj will not be there. i think barron and marrion MAY be gone to ten. and dallas in that order. jones and spears should be available at our pick, but assuming that all four guys are there, who do you take? i take in this order:
1.Marcus Spears
2.Adam Jones
3.shawne Marrion
4.Alex Barron

astrofan
02-16-2005, 05:05 PM
1 Dan Cody
2 Heath Miller
3 Ronnie Brown
4 Mike Williams

I think that he pronounces his name "Merriman"

YoungTexanFan
02-16-2005, 05:45 PM
why is everyone so high on cody? he is not worth a top half of the first round. maybe mid 20's.
why is everyone high on mike williams? he ran a 4.6! highschool kids can cover him...ya hes tall and has hands...he is not a solid #2. he is a big slow wr who can catch...we have a big fast one who can catch. we dont need him.
why is everyone high on ronnie brown? we have a rb who proved he could do things with an offensive line that blocked. the line only started blocking later in season when he started haveing good games. rb is only as good as the ol.

when i say everyone i mean texan fans. some of these players may be great fits for other teams, but why the texans?

astrofan
02-16-2005, 06:15 PM
I think it has something to do with DD and nagging injury problems.
It comes down to either a big bruiser or a DD clone.
If DD is down, will a big bruiser be able to carry us on his shoulders the way a DD clone could.

My HelmetBreakers:
1 Kyle Eckel
2 Brandon Jacobs
3 Eric Shelton

My DD clones:
1 Ciatrick Fason
2 Ronnie Brown

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-16-2005, 07:32 PM
Ronnie Brown a DD clone? lol

Grid
02-16-2005, 07:42 PM
Ronnie Brown is huge (pronounced hue-ga). ok maybe not.. but he aint no DD clone. If he can do what DD does.. but with his size.. then not only do I want him.. I want to have his children.

Mike Williams I agree is not someone we need.


in no particular order:

Marcus Spears
Justin Miller
Antajj Hawthorne
Adam Jones
Shawne Merriman
Ronnie Brown


these are the guys that "could possibly be available" at #13 that I would be happy to get.

I really want Derrick Johnson though.

astrofan
02-16-2005, 10:01 PM
DD 216 vs RB 224
eight pounds difference?
does anyone have a more current official weight for Ronnie Brown?

Kyle Eckel@240 is hue-ga
Brad Hoover@245 is hue-ga
Ron Dayne@245 is hue-ga
Mike Alstott@248 is hue-ga
Sione Havili@250+ is hue-ga
T.J. Duckett@254 is hue-ga
Jerome Bettis@255 is hue-ga
Brandon Jacobs@260 is hue-ga

he falls under the heading of a DD clone because he is an allaround versatile back as opposed to a one trick bruiser. He can catch, runs outside and inside, and blocks reasonably well... I refer to those guys as DD clones for their skill sets more than their stature.

Astrofan Dictionary
DD Clone = allarounder
HelmetBreaker = bruiser

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-16-2005, 10:37 PM
Ronnie Brown runs with more power and has breakaway speed. That is the difference between Brown and DD.

infantrycak
02-16-2005, 10:47 PM
DD 216 vs RB 224
eight pounds difference?
does anyone have a more current official weight for Ronnie Brown?

DD has been listed at 216 lbs to 221 lbs while with the Texans. Brown is listed around the web at 224 lbs to 230 lbs. So at most Brown is 14 lbs heavier and at least 3 lbs. Keep in mind though that Davis is 3-4 inches shorter as well so Brown needs 10+ lbs on DD to be keep at least as good a height/weight ratio. Silly weight arguments aside, Brown looks looks like he would be the best fit for the Texans of the top three RB's IMO.

Honoring Earl 34
02-16-2005, 10:54 PM
:howdy: If we could pick any RB I'd go with Benson . I believe he sees the holes the best . That would help with the zone blocking . Benson is most like Emmitt Smith not overly big ,not overly fast , he just gains yards . This has been going on since his days at Midland Lee .

Wolf
02-16-2005, 10:58 PM
:howdy: If we could pick any RB I'd go with Benson . I believe he sees the holes the best . That would help with the zone blocking . Benson is most like Emmitt Smith not overly big ,not overly fast , he just gains yards . This has been going on since his days at Midland Lee .


off the subject a bit.. but oh I loved it when he basically singlehandedly kicked Westlake.

BuffSoldier
02-16-2005, 11:25 PM
I really feel that Ronnie would be the best fit for us of the top 3, but we wont draft him and I dont want us to ,no need to use our 1st pick on a RB, but of those top 4 to choose from, Ide have to go with Pac-Man. He may me a D-Rob Clone. :banana:

Grid
02-17-2005, 01:05 AM
I wonder if Justin Miller wouldnt be a better choice. He is bigger, and is also a physical kind of CB.

Yah the big difference with Brown isnt necessarily his weight.. its his height and the way he runs. Plus, get him on our weight training program and I bet we can add another 5 pounds of muscle or so. 6'1" 230 pounds is a good sized RB.

As for quicker backs being better behind zone blocking.. look at how well Wells did. We also have a much LARGER Oline than the broncos.. I think our line is a little slower, so a big guy who can do some power running would probably be more effective for us in the long run. not to mention we need someone who can take a beating with the way we like to run the ball.

beerlover
02-17-2005, 03:25 AM
I wonder if Justin Miller wouldnt be a better choice. He is bigger, and is also a physical kind of CB.

I'm glad someone else is thinking about Miller instead of Adam Jones. Despite some senior moments posters who don't give a hoot about the combines, after you've broken their respective skills down, all your left with are physical laws of nature, ie. size (matter) speed (velocity) intelligence (wonderlick scores) and personel make-up (character traits).

I think that Glenn has also proven to be an excellent teacher of the game & has a future in coaching if he wants to when he decides to hang em up, point being this would be an excellent opportunity to set the CB's of the Texans for the next ten years. Justin Miller for those who do not know is favorably compared to Deion Sanders, plus he led the nation in Kick-off returns. I know everyone here loves JJ Moses and he could still return punts because he's good at it, but how many of you would like to see a true game breaker for the Texans on Kick-offs? I know I would.

Don't get me wrong that Adam is not a good corner, he is, its just that for those who haven't followed Clemson football Justin Miller is a very good football talent worthy of consideration with the 13th pick, but he is rarely mentioned in the same breath as Pac-Man, and in my non-professional scouting opinion an injustice. time for more beer :party:

Drew Boylhart, The Huddle-

Justin is just a great athlete and reminds me a lot of Deion Sanders. He has the same gait when he runs and is always looking around for a big play. In fact, he gets frustrated if he doesnít make a big play. He can learn nothing more at the college level and is smart to come out now. No one throws to his side anymore, so as far as learning better techniques, fugetaboutit! He is not being challenged right now and the only place that he will be challenged is in the NFL going up against WRís like T. Owens and R. Moss. He looks to be a sure shutdown cover corner, but as long as he was in college, no one knew for certain. At this stage of the draft, you have to consider him a top ten pick and I think he just might be as good as DeionÖbut time will tell.

infantrycak
02-17-2005, 10:16 AM
I wonder if Justin Miller wouldnt be a better choice. He is bigger, and is also a physical kind of CB.

Justin Miller has the look of the early overlooked prospect who moves up the board and gets taken by the Texans like Dunta last year.

Don't know about Miller being significantly bigger. Some sites have him listed at 5' 11" and 200 lbs but there seems to be some doubt about both and his is listed as low as 180 lbs. The combine will clear that up. Either way he is certainly not too small IMO. Pac Man Jones is listed at 5' 11" 185 lbs, so about the same size.

Both are physical--actually a lot of the descriptions are the same--physical, will take risks to make big plays and great returners:

Jones:

Excellent pure athletic ability...Great speed...Physical and likes to hit...Does a nice job in run support and is a solid tackler...A ballhawk who is fluid and agile in coverage...A playmaker who is always around the action...Also a dangerous return man.

Link (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/cb/pacmanjones.html)

Miller:

Playmaker in the secondary...Has great ball skills and a knack for making the big play...Very good speed and quickness...Fluid hips in coverage...Excellent athletic ability...Has a lot of experience despite being just a true junior...A threat to score every time he touches the ball...Physical and likes to hit...Also a dynamic return man.
Link (http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/playerprofiles/cb/justinmiller.html)

Just looking at the #13 spot and the players semi-likely to be available, CB is looking like a very real possibility IMO--best bpa/need combination.

Lucky
02-17-2005, 10:50 AM
Drew Boylhart, The Huddle-

This may be just a pet peeve of mine, but I'd rather read about what you think about a prospect than what an internet scout has to say. These guys have their own web sites, and they're certainly opinionated & prolific in their opinions. But I don't gain any additional insight from reading their scouting reports. And after reading this scout's take on Dunta (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2004DRAFT/profiles/DuntaRobinson.htm) last year, I have to question his ability to scout corners.
Bottom Line

Dunta has a tough time being knocked off stride a lot by college WRís when he is running stride for stride with them. This could be a big problem in the NFL. He is a bit of a long strider and although he has excellent speed, he has trouble changing direction. I noticed this especially when the WR runs hard in a deep pattern and makes Dunta flip his hips, then breaks back to the ball in a curl or stop route. Now this could just be a technique problem, but I think he will always have this problem because of his legs and his speed. Most long-legged corners do not have the burst that Dunta has, so they do not panic on the deep pass. They just try to stay with the receiver and use their size to defend. Dunta panics, outruns the WR and is then in a bad position to defend the stop route. Now most coaches will say this is technique and we can straighten that out. That is a mistake. Ring the bell, the dog salivates, run a deep route and Dunta will go like the wind. He canít help himself. Itís a reaction for him that will be very hard to break. Dunta will be an excellent nickel/dime corner. If you try to put him on the field for every down, he will make mistakes in technique that he will have no control over and break your heart because of his talent. He is a hard worker and a good kid and can help a lot in special teams, but if you are looking for a starting CB, look to someone else. He reminds me of a 1st round draft pick a few years back, J.D. Williams- Buffalo Bills.

Drew Boylhart

infantrycak
02-17-2005, 11:11 AM
This may be just a pet peeve of mine, but I'd rather read about what you think about a prospect than what an internet scout has to say. These guys have their own web sites, and they're certainly opinionated & prolific in their opinions. But I don't gain any additional insight from reading their scouting reports. And after reading this scout's take on Dunta (http://www.thehuddlereport.com/archive/2004DRAFT/profiles/DuntaRobinson.htm) last year, I have to question his ability to scout corners.

It is certainly great when someone can provide their opinion based on actually having viewed the players. Having said that, not many people have really watched much more than highlight film segments on many draft prospects, if that. Let's face it those usually give the good, but not the bad. For example in another thread someone pointed to DJ's highlight reel to say he didn't have a hard time getting off blocks--well of course not in the highlight reel. IMO internet scouts just need to be viewed for what they are--people who may or may not have watched a significant amount of tape and have the interest and time to put it up on the web, i.e. a source that needs to be judged highly critically but may be useful. Boylhart for example has always struck me as blowing very hot and cold on players--they are either already about to be inducted into the hall of fame even though they grade to the 7th round or are going to be a bust even though they are the 2nd best CB in the draft--to much hyperbole. A lot of these guys have three major fallacies (1) copying what the other scouts are saying in order to have lots of reviews even where they haven't independently judged the player (2) a lack of consistancy in analysis (for example saying DD is too small at 215 lbs but another back has great size at 205 lbs) and (2) having little knowledge of the NFL teams and so misanalyzing NFL team needs (for example three quarters of the sites right now have SS as the Texans greatest need). OK four actually--they get caught up in the hype and have to project all the 1st day picks as better than last year, better than the current NFL players, future perenial pro-bowlers. If you can clear the wheat from the chaff though they can provide useful information.

Honoring Earl 34
02-17-2005, 11:58 AM
I think if the Texans want a corner at 13 they'll get their chance . Last I'd bet they wanted Dunta more than Hall . Dunta just seems like their kinda guy . Who are the 4 best corners Miller , Rogers , Rolle , and Jones ? What this could also create is a run on players . If Jones and Rolle go in the top seven then rumors fly and teams panic somebody may try to move up .

Wild Bill
02-17-2005, 01:58 PM
OLINE any of thoose guys are better the Wand!
Barron, Brown, Gaurd from Virginia........the only 2 guys I would take if we dont go line is Derrick Johnson or Mike Williams. We need a line I dont care who it just needs to be an improvement.



First off, the Texans invested a lot of money in Wand and Wade. Those guys are going anywhere and aren't the problem with the offensive line. Also, E. Brown from Virginia is not a tackle, he's a guard. Alex Barron is not rated in the same class as Orlando Pace and Walter Jones and is not very consistant. He's rated high only because he has potential.

I would like to see E. Brown or D. Baas drafted to eventually replace McKinney and Wiegart. Those guys are the biggest reason for the offensive line woes.

Wild Bill
02-17-2005, 02:03 PM
I think if the Texans want a corner at 13 they'll get their chance . Last I'd bet they wanted Dunta more than Hall . Dunta just seems like their kinda guy . Who are the 4 best corners Miller , Rogers , Rolle , and Jones ? What this could also create is a run on players . If Jones and Rolle go in the top seven then rumors fly and teams panic somebody may try to move up .


I don't know what the scouting report is on Carlos Rogers, but he reminded me a lot of Dunte with his performance in their bowl game against Virginia Tech. I know that he's not rated as high as Rolle and Jones, but from what I saw, based only on the bowl game, he's going to be a very good, hard nose player

edo783
02-17-2005, 02:51 PM
OK, are all of these CBs worth the 13th if they are there:

Carlos Rogers
Pac Man Jones
Anton Rolle
Justin Miller

I am pretty sure about Pac Man. Rolle seems to me to be destined for safety, so maybe the 13th isn't a good spot for him with us. Some one else probably. I am not sure about the other two, but have seen and heard pretty good things about both. If they are all worthy of the 13th pick and could be expected to compare reasonbly favorably to DRob, and we are looking for a CB, I suspect one of these guys will be playing for us come fall. The only way I see that changing is if SOME HOW, SOME WAY DJ falls there, then we snatch him in a heart beat.

TexansTrueFan
02-17-2005, 03:09 PM
some DL guys would be nice, i dont care who but i figure any can be better than what we have !

texasguy346
02-17-2005, 03:12 PM
I'd say that both Pac Man Jones and Justin Miller are worthy of the #13 pick, but Carlos Rogers seems to be more of a later 1st Round pick IMO. Rolle is an interesting prospect. He's got an added versatility that the other three are lacking. Depending on a particular teams needs he could go early on in the draft. If alot of teams are leaning towards a prototypical cornerback then he could fall as far as the 4th or 5th CB taken depending upon how high Browner's stock rises or falls after the combine. That was off topic, but basically I'd be alright taking Jones or Miller at #13, but if we take Rogers I'd rather see us trade down and get him around the mid 20's or so.

wags
02-17-2005, 04:17 PM
It is certainly great when someone can provide their opinion based on actually having viewed the players.

True dat. That's why I only talk about Georgia players. :slap:

threetoedpete
02-18-2005, 03:21 PM
why is everyone so high on cody? he is not worth a top half of the first round. maybe mid 20's.
why is everyone high on mike williams? he ran a 4.6! highschool kids can cover him...ya hes tall and has hands...he is not a solid #2. he is a big slow wr who can catch...we have a big fast one who can catch. we dont need him.
why is everyone high on ronnie brown? we have a rb who proved he could do things with an offensive line that blocked. the line only started blocking later in season when he started haveing good games. rb is only as good as the ol.

when i say everyone i mean texan fans. some of these players may be great fits for other teams, but why the texans?

Well I stand to be corrected, but JR was a 4.6 guy. He turned out pretty good. Won't argue Edwards maybe the better college tallent. If the Line had played better last season or the brain trust believes there will be vast improvement next year with this group, I would have no problems with the MW selection.

Scary but I agree on the running backs this year. There are none I would pay first round money to. And yes that includes Cedric. No offense indended Horns fans. JMHO.

Honoring Earl 34
02-19-2005, 12:38 PM
:howdy: What is the best net sight on prospects ? GBNDR just list them they really don't analize . You'd have to do a 24/7 in the film room to see everybody .

D-ReK
02-19-2005, 12:45 PM
:howdy: What is the best net sight on prospects ? GBNDR just list them they really don't analize . You'd have to do a 24/7 in the film room to see everybody .

www.nfldraftcountdown.com is a pretty good one...

They also have a links page to a few other good ones, such as NFLDraftBlitz and NFLDraftShowcase...

LikeABoss
02-19-2005, 02:09 PM
I think these are our best choices @ 13 and my reasons why.

1. Justin Miller CB - He could be the best value pick @13 depending on who has been drafted ahead of him, he returns kickoffs, we play the Colts twice a year, we were ranked 24th in passing defense, having a great secondary would allow us to blitz more, and Aaron Glenn is 33 years old plus he got beat a few times this year so finding his replacement will be a need soon because DeMarcus Faggins is more of a nickel back instead of a regular full-time starter.

2-A. Shawn Merriman - We need all the pass rushing ability we can find, and if we are not gonna start Peek while moving Wong inside then we are in definite trouble at this position. Most scouts feels that he is an OLB in a 3-4 scheme and that he also has some experience with dropping into coverage, which shouldn't be too much of a concern if we bring him in unlike the concerns we had with Babin when we drafted him.

2-B. Marcus Spears - He would bring much needed youth, athleticism, and help to our D-line while providing us the oppourtunity to move Smith inside to NT while he and Walker hold down the end positions. Most scouts feels that he is better suited at DE in the 3-4 defensive scheme.

3. Heath Miller - Look at the production at our TE position. Need I say more about this position.

Number19
02-19-2005, 03:16 PM
:howdy: What is the best net sight on prospects ? GBNDR just list them they really don't analize . You'd have to do a 24/7 in the film room to see everybody .
Gil Brandt over at NFL.com is arguably the best. His skill is recognised league wide. However, he doesn't start posting his analysis until after the Combine.

Honoring Earl 34
02-19-2005, 03:27 PM
:howdy: 19 thats saying something if the one guy who actually did this job waits until after the combine . I like waiting til after the draft then I'm always right .