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TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 03:22 PM
Do you think Rick Smith has done a good job upgrading the talent of the team, and more importantly plugging in the holes we had before he came.

Before he got here, and after the Schaub trade, the most pressing needs were both safety spots, defensive line, corner, offensive line, and linebacker

I'd like to give him credit for Schaub but from what I understood Kubiak wanted Schaub and told Rick to do what it takes to get him.

Here are the drafts;

2007

1/10 DT Amobi Okoye

3/73 WR Jacoby Jones

4/123 CB Fred Bennett

5/144 S Brandon Harrison

5/163 G Brandon Frye

6/183 G Kasey Studdard

7/218 LB Zac Diles


2008

1/26 LT Duane Brown

3/79 CB Antwaun Molden

3/89 RB Steve Slaton

4/118 LB Xavier Adibi

5/151 DT Frank Okam

6/173 S Dominique Barber

7/223 QB Alex Brink


2009

1/15 LB Brian Cushing

2/46 DE Connor Barwin

3/77 C Antoine Caldwell

4/112 CB Glover Quin

4/122 TE Anthony Hill

5/152 TE James Casey

6/188 CB Brice McCain

7/223 S Troy Nolan

If someone else would list the free agents that would be nice.

I am not overly impressed.

He's just now addressed the DE position with Smith and Barwin, both of whom haven't produced a whole lot. Its still early there though.

He hasn't addressed safety at all. A bunch of special teamers, that's it.

He botched the DT position with Okam and Okoye, so far anyway.

Myers has been less than average. He did pick up Studdard but the jury is still out on him. I like Caldwell, props there although he hasn't seen the field. Love Duane Brown.

Our CBs are just as bad as before he came around. Actually Reeves is an upgrade, but he missed on Bennett. Small school players like Molden (can't stay healthy or get on the field), Quin, and McCain have been non factors. It's still early on those guys but we needed immediate help.

He brought in one good RB in Slaton, who's struggling. Other than Slaton he has done little to upgrade that.

He's done well with linebackers. Ill give him that. Diles, Cushing, and Adibi are significant upgrades.

He picked up Casey, who I guess could replace Daniels, if we are lucky, but why replace him? He is a probowler. Casey can't see the field with Owen, Dreesen, and Hill on the roster.

I think Smith hasn't done nearly enough. Sure he upgraded LB, picked up one good RB in 3 years, got a couple OL that Alex Gibbs can work with, but that's really all I am seeing.

Drafted 4 corners in his time, no upgrade so far. Drafted 3 safeties, no upgrade. 2 DTs, no upgrade.

How do yall feel about Smith, independent of Kubiak, moving forward?

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:43 PM
Don't forget trading for Schaub, who is pretty damned important to this offense. Also, even though he wasn't officially announced until June of 2006, I have a suspicion he had a lot to do with that draft, either as a confidant to Kubiak, or a special adviser to Casserly. That being said, we'll pretend he had nothing to do with it.

There are too many free agents to list (there are a ton of under-the-radar transactions every year), but I'll give some highlights.

2007: Ahman Green, Andre Davis, Jordan Black

2008: Bentley, Chris Brown, Ferguson, Reeves, Chaun Thompson

2009: Cody, Orlovsky, Grossman, June, Pollard.

Also, it's ALWAYS been this regime's policy to build and replinish through the draft, NOT in free agency.

Second Honeymoon
09-29-2009, 03:48 PM
Don't forget trading for Schaub, who is pretty damned important to this offense. Also, even though he wasn't officially announced until June of 2006, I have a suspicion he had a lot to do with that draft, either as a confidant to Kubiak, or a special adviser to Casserly. That being said, we'll pretend he had nothing to do with it.

There are too many free agents to list (there are a ton of under-the-radar transactions every year), but I'll give some highlights.

2007: Ahman Green, Andre Davis, Jordan Black

2008: Bentley, Chris Brown, Ferguson, Reeves, Chaun Thompson

2009: Cody, Orlovsky, Grossman, June, Pollard.

Also, it's ALWAYS been this regime's policy to build and replinish through the draft, NOT in free agency.

yup and that policy sure has done wonders addressing our deficiencies?

once again, what has Bush done to show anyone anything?

he has done jack squat.

we are currently on pace to be THE WORST DEFENSE IN NFL HISTORY!!

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 03:49 PM
Don't forget trading for Schaub, who is pretty damned important to this offense. Also, even though he wasn't officially announced until June of 2006, I have a suspicion he had a lot to do with that draft, either as a confidant to Kubiak, or a special adviser to Casserly. That being said, we'll pretend he had nothing to do with it.

There are too many free agents to list (there are a ton of under-the-radar transactions every year), but I'll give some highlights.

2007: Ahman Green, Andre Davis, Jordan Black

2008: Bentley, Chris Brown, Ferguson, Reeves, Chaun Thompson

2009: Cody, Orlovsky, Grossman, June, Pollard.

Also, it's ALWAYS been this regime's policy to build and replinish through the draft, NOT in free agency.

Out of those FAs, I like Bentley, Andre Davis (good for only one year), Reeves, and Pollard (I haven't seen him play for the team).

I was thinking about the "we build through the draft" approach as I was making this thread, and it had me even less impressed.

Texecutioner
09-29-2009, 03:53 PM
Do you think Rick Smith has done a good job upgrading the talent of the team, and more importantly plugging in the holes we had before he came.

Before he got here, and after the Schaub trade, the most pressing needs were both safety spots, defensive line, corner, offensive line, and linebacker

I'd like to give him credit for Schaub but from what I understood Kubiak wanted Schaub and told Rick to do what it takes to get him.

Here are the drafts;

2007

1/10 DT Amobi Okoye

3/73 WR Jacoby Jones

4/123 CB Fred Bennett

5/144 S Brandon Harrison

5/163 G Brandon Frye

6/183 G Kasey Studdard

7/218 LB Zac Diles


2008

1/26 LT Duane Brown

3/79 CB Antwaun Molden

3/89 RB Steve Slaton

4/118 LB Xavier Adibi

5/151 DT Frank Okam

6/173 S Dominique Barber

7/223 QB Alex Brink


2009

1/15 LB Brian Cushing

2/46 DE Connor Barwin

3/77 C Antoine Caldwell

4/112 CB Glover Quin

4/122 TE Anthony Hill

5/152 TE James Casey

6/188 CB Brice McCain

7/223 S Troy Nolan

If someone else would list the free agents that would be nice.

I am not overly impressed.

He's just now addressed the DE position with Smith and Barwin, both of whom haven't produced a whole lot. Its still early there though.

He hasn't addressed safety at all. A bunch of special teamers, that's it.

He botched the DT position with Okam and Okoye, so far anyway.

Myers has been less than average. He did pick up Studdard but the jury is still out on him. I like Caldwell, props there although he hasn't seen the field. Love Duane Brown.

Our CBs are just as bad as before he came around. Actually Reeves is an upgrade, but he missed on Bennett. Small school players like Molden (can't stay healthy or get on the field), Quin, and McCain have been non factors. It's still early on those guys but we needed immediate help.

He brought in one good RB in Slaton, who's struggling. Other than Slaton he has done little to upgrade that.

He's done well with linebackers. Ill give him that. Diles, Cushing, and Adibi are significant upgrades.

He picked up Casey, who I guess could replace Daniels, if we are lucky, but why replace him? He is a probowler. Casey can't see the field with Owen, Dreesen, and Hill on the roster.

I think Smith hasn't done nearly enough. Sure he upgraded LB, picked up one good RB in 3 years, got a couple OL that Alex Gibbs can work with, but that's really all I am seeing.

Drafted 4 corners in his time, no upgrade so far. Drafted 3 safeties, no upgrade. 2 DTs, no upgrade.

How do yall feel about Smith, independent of Kubiak, moving forward?

At the end of the day you have to look at results. The Texans aren't going to the playoffs this year and that will be 4 straight years without any playoff appearances.

He's been awful at acquiring talent in free agency.

He's not the worst GM in the league by any means, but he isn't a good one either. He is just an average one, and I'd like the Texans to have a guy that is better than average.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:59 PM
Now, considering it typically takes about 3 years to see if a pick truly pans out, it's still just a tad early to start evaluating Smith as a GM. Now, any skill position you get past the 3rd round is just a bonus. The true grading should come on the first 3 rounds.

2007 and 2008 2nd round picks were traded for Schaub. WIN!

2007: Okoye and Jacoby Jones. DRAW (Jacoby is above average, Okoye has yet to prove he's anything more than "ok") Bonus points: Studdard and Diles

2008: Brown, Slaton, and Molden. WIN! (Brown is very good and still improving; Molden is even odds on becoming better than average, but he's hurt right now; Slaton is above average) Bonus points: Adibi

2009: Cushing, Barwin, Caldwell. ??? They've played 3 games. Who knows? Cushing looks to be very good. Barwin has great potential, and Caldwell hasn't been given much opportunity. Bonus points? Potentially James Casey, although we haven't seen anything of him other than ST.

I have to give Rick Smith an A- for drafts, and a D for free agent signings. He finds some good raw talent that fill needs on this football team. However, his free agent signings have contributed nothing, and he has yet to "happily" retain a key member of our team when they're up for free agency. He's lived up to his and Kubiak's promise to build through drafting and not through dropping big money on players from other teams.

ATXtexanfan
09-29-2009, 04:06 PM
He's upgraded the talent, how much say does he have in the staff? Defensive coaching is the problem right now.

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 04:12 PM
Now, considering it typically takes about 3 years to see if a pick truly pans out, it's still just a tad early to start evaluating Smith as a GM. Now, any skill position you get past the 3rd round is just a bonus. The true grading should come on the first 3 rounds.

2007 and 2008 2nd round picks were traded for Schaub. WIN!

2007: Okoye and Jacoby Jones. DRAW (Jacoby is above average, Okoye has yet to prove he's anything more than "ok") Bonus points: Studdard and Diles

2008: Brown, Slaton, and Molden. WIN! (Brown is very good and still improving; Molden is even odds on becoming better than average, but he's hurt right now; Slaton is above average) Bonus points: Adibi

2009: Cushing, Barwin, Caldwell. ??? They've played 3 games. Who knows? Cushing looks to be very good. Barwin has great potential, and Caldwell hasn't been given much opportunity. Bonus points? Potentially James Casey, although we haven't seen anything of him other than ST.

I have to give Rick Smith an A- for drafts, and a D for free agent signings. He finds some good raw talent that fill needs on this football team. However, his free agent signings have contributed nothing, and he has yet to "happily" retain a key member of our team when they're up for free agency. He's lived up to his and Kubiak's promise to build through drafting and not through dropping big money on players from other teams.

I disagree. If I had to grade him based on filling needs I would give him a C-. He gets a C for upgrading talent from me.

I don't agree about the idea that anything after the 3rd round is a bonus. Completely don't understand that line of thought. I'd say if a player drafted in the 6th or 7th round pans out, it's a bonus.

What makes you think Okoye is "ok". I'd say he is bad, going on awful.

Molden has a good chance to be above average? Based onnnnn...what? He was a good special teams player. Has done nothing on defense.

I'd say before this year, for every good play Jacoby has made he's made a bad play. He has shown up thus far as a reciever this year, so I would say he was an decent pick if you consider he was a 3rd rounder and the 73rd player drafted in his class.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 04:15 PM
I evaluate him this way:

How many players on the roster are holdovers from the C & C Factory??

GP
09-29-2009, 04:17 PM
It's really too bad that all of your grades mean absolutely nothing in terms of the LARGER picture here: He is saving McNair a ton of money in how he's doing contracts.

Rick Smith is like Geico for McNair.

Continue on with your lives in fantasy land.

(sorry, I'm just having a hard time giving a serious sh!t about solving this team's problems right now)

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 04:17 PM
I disagree. If I had to grade him based on filling needs I would give him a C-. He gets a C for upgrading talent from me.

I don't agree about the idea that anything after the 3rd round is a bonus. Completely don't understand that line of thought. I'd say if a player drafted in the 6th or 7th round pans out, it's a bonus.

Then go and show me any GM in the league that has had more than one year of "hits" in rounds 1-5.

You can't evaluate talent after one season, or even two, especially when you're changing coordinators. Mario looked terrible in year one. Bennett looked good. Look where we are now.

GP
09-29-2009, 04:20 PM
I evaluate him this way:

How many players on the roster are holdovers from the C & C Factory??

Kris Brown.

And the guy who ran out to grab the kickoff tee, then did a front roll when he reached the sideline.

Oh, wait. That was the other sucky team we had before this sucky team.

My bad.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EvxoYuwNZMI/SZk5gFYV3tI/AAAAAAAAEmE/bkB61g6CCsQ/s400/Kevin-office.jpg

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 04:20 PM
It's really too bad that all of your grades mean absolutely nothing in terms of the LARGER picture here: He is saving McNair a ton of money in how he's doing contracts.

Rick Smith is like Geico for McNair.

Continue on with your lives in fantasy land.

(sorry, I'm just having a hard time giving a serious sh!t about solving this team's problems right now)

How do you figure? We were in salary cap hell the first two years Smith was here. He had no breathing room because of contracts like Carr and Babin had. He's not trying to save anyone money.

People that say that owners like Bob McNair are copping out and don't want to spend money just piss me off. You really think he cares how much it costs? Even as a business decision, do you REALLY think that he's going to make money by cheaping out on players and staring at empty seats? Nobody wants to win more than our owner, and that dude is NOT cheaping out by any means.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 04:29 PM
Kris Brown.

And the guy who ran out to grab the kickoff tee, then did a front roll when he reached the sideline.

Oh, wait. That was the other sucky team we had before this sucky team.

My bad.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_EvxoYuwNZMI/SZk5gFYV3tI/AAAAAAAAEmE/bkB61g6CCsQ/s400/Kevin-office.jpg

Kris
Andre
Dunta
Chester that come to mind.

So in my minds eye, they've turned over 49 roster spots (including PS) heading into his 4th season. With that much turn-over, are you going to "miss" on some picks and / or trades?? Yes. OTOH, he's done a lot of things right, too, while clearing out C & C's mess.

Grade: B-

The minus is because of Amobi. I really thought he would be much further along by now.

Silver Oak
09-29-2009, 04:29 PM
It's really too bad that all of your grades mean absolutely nothing in terms of the LARGER picture here: He is saving McNair a ton of money in how he's doing contracts.


Rick Smith is like Geico for McNair.

Continue on with your lives in fantasy land.

(sorry, I'm just having a hard time giving a serious sh!t about solving this team's problems right now)

How do you figure? We were in salary cap hell the first two years Smith was here. He had no breathing room because of contracts like Carr and Babin had. He's not trying to save anyone money.

People that say that owners like Bob McNair are copping out and don't want to spend money just piss me off. You really think he cares how much it costs? Even as a business decision, do you REALLY think that he's going to make money by cheaping out on players and staring at empty seats? Nobody wants to win more than our owner, and that dude is NOT cheaping out by any means.

Logical thoughts have no place here.

Texans_Chick
09-29-2009, 04:29 PM
Do you think Rick Smith has done a good job upgrading the talent of the team, and more importantly plugging in the holes we had before he came.

Before he got here, and after the Schaub trade, the most pressing needs were both safety spots, defensive line, corner, offensive line, and linebacker

I'd like to give him credit for Schaub but from what I understood Kubiak wanted Schaub and told Rick to do what it takes to get him.

Here are the drafts;

2007

1/10 DT Amobi Okoye

3/73 WR Jacoby Jones

4/123 CB Fred Bennett

5/144 S Brandon Harrison

5/163 G Brandon Frye

6/183 G Kasey Studdard

7/218 LB Zac Diles


2008

1/26 LT Duane Brown

3/79 CB Antwaun Molden

3/89 RB Steve Slaton

4/118 LB Xavier Adibi

5/151 DT Frank Okam

6/173 S Dominique Barber

7/223 QB Alex Brink


2009

1/15 LB Brian Cushing

2/46 DE Connor Barwin

3/77 C Antoine Caldwell

4/112 CB Glover Quin

4/122 TE Anthony Hill

5/152 TE James Casey

6/188 CB Brice McCain

7/223 S Troy Nolan

If someone else would list the free agents that would be nice.

I am not overly impressed.

He's just now addressed the DE position with Smith and Barwin, both of whom haven't produced a whole lot. Its still early there though.

He hasn't addressed safety at all. A bunch of special teamers, that's it.

He botched the DT position with Okam and Okoye, so far anyway.

Myers has been less than average. He did pick up Studdard but the jury is still out on him. I like Caldwell, props there although he hasn't seen the field. Love Duane Brown.

Our CBs are just as bad as before he came around. Actually Reeves is an upgrade, but he missed on Bennett. Small school players like Molden (can't stay healthy or get on the field), Quin, and McCain have been non factors. It's still early on those guys but we needed immediate help.

He brought in one good RB in Slaton, who's struggling. Other than Slaton he has done little to upgrade that.

He's done well with linebackers. Ill give him that. Diles, Cushing, and Adibi are significant upgrades.

He picked up Casey, who I guess could replace Daniels, if we are lucky, but why replace him? He is a probowler. Casey can't see the field with Owen, Dreesen, and Hill on the roster.

I think Smith hasn't done nearly enough. Sure he upgraded LB, picked up one good RB in 3 years, got a couple OL that Alex Gibbs can work with, but that's really all I am seeing.

Drafted 4 corners in his time, no upgrade so far. Drafted 3 safeties, no upgrade. 2 DTs, no upgrade.

How do yall feel about Smith, independent of Kubiak, moving forward?


You don't botch 5th round picks. That the Texans have to rely on lower round picks for significant playing time demonstrates that the team is very thin. Part of them getting playing time or being relied on is because a number of 1-3 round picks who should be in the primes of their career with the Texans were busts under CC. And some of those top round picks were traded away for Phillip Buchanon or magic beans or whatever.

Key players who should be in NFL prime are missing from the team. We should have more guys like Andre Johnson or just plain old solid players who have stayed with the team for years. Texan fans have eaten their brussel sprouts with first round d-line picks like Travis Johnson and Jason Babin not continuing with the team and the dline still a mess.

It is too early to judge a lot of Smith's picks, and every team has some misses. The Texans just couldn't afford all the misses that happened under Casserly-Capers.

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 04:30 PM
Then go and show me any GM in the league that has had more than one year of "hits" in rounds 1-5.

You can't evaluate talent after one season, or even two, especially when you're changing coordinators. Mario looked terrible in year one. Bennett looked good. Look where we are now.

Mario didn't look terrible he was just struggling. Big difference. Plus he was injured AND played through the injury the whole year.

I'm not evaluating any of the picks this year on how they play anyway, just on addressing needs.

I think its fair to grade the 2007 draft based on performance.

The 2008 draft falls somewhere in between.

I also expect 1st and 2nd rounders to produce in year one. Maybe not week one but somewhere in that year they need to start producing. Cushing is doing very well, we'll see if Barwin can pick it up sometime in year one.

Honoring Earl 34
09-29-2009, 04:41 PM
You don't botch 5th round picks. That the Texans have to rely on lower round picks for significant playing time demonstrates that the team is very thin. Part of them getting playing time or being relied on is because a number of 1-3 round picks who should be in the primes of their career with the Texans were busts under CC. And some of those top round picks were traded away for Phillip Buchanon or magic beans or whatever.

Key players who should be in NFL prime are missing from the team. We should have more guys like Andre Johnson or just plain old solid players who have stayed with the team for years. Texan fans have eaten their brussel sprouts with first round d-line picks like Travis Johnson and Jason Babin not continuing with the team and the dline still a mess.

It is too early to judge a lot of Smith's picks, and every team has some misses. The Texans just couldn't afford all the misses that happened under Casserly-Capers.

That's true .

2002
2nd rd. Gaffney ... gone .
3rd rd. Hill , Weary ... gone .

2003
2nd rd. Jopru ... gone
3rd rd. Wand ... ... Peek ... Ragone , gone .

2004
1st rd. Babin ... gone ... plus picks to get him .

2005
1st rd. Johnson ... gone .
PBuch ... ouchy .
3rd rd. .. Morency

2006
3rd rd. Spencer ... gone

2007
2nd rd ... trade

2008
2nd trade .

Hervoyel
09-29-2009, 04:42 PM
Borrowing your text as I'm not of a mind to type it all again.

Here are the drafts;

2007

1/10 DT Amobi Okoye: Daring pick that hasn't paid off yet. May never payoff.

3/73 WR Jacoby Jones: Just now seeing any real production as a WR. PR duties remain "scary".

4/123 CB Fred Bennett: Our new "Petey Buchannon". All the skills of both but only takes up one roster spot!

5/144 S Brandon Harrison: Who?

5/163 G Brandon Frye: Who?

6/183 G Kasey Studdard: Kubiak: "Note to self: Debt paid".

7/218 LB Zac Diles: The acorn this pig found in 2007.


2008

1/26 LT Duane Brown: Gibbs pick. Nobody can convince me otherwise.

3/79 CB Antwaun Molden: Next year's Fred Bennett? Who knows.

3/89 RB Steve Slaton: The acorn this pig found in 2008.

4/118 LB Xavier Adibi: Beaten out of a job by last years acorn.

5/151 DT Frank Okam: At least he waited till the 5th round to find the new Travis Johnson.

6/173 S Dominique Barber: Who?

7/223 QB Alex Brink: Who? Not really. Just a camp arm.


2009

1/15 LB Brian Cushing: Looks good so far. This year's acorn?

2/46 DE Connor Barwin: Disappeared once the games started to matter. Actually being a rookie that's not surprising. It's way too soon to rate most of these guys.

3/77 C Antoine Caldwell: potential but not ready yet.

4/112 CB Glover Quin: potential but not ready yet.

4/122 TE Anthony Hill: Ok, so we need someone to compliment Daniels & Dreeson.

5/152 TE James Casey: Ok.... so we need someone else to compliment Daniels, Dreeson, and Hill?

6/188 CB Brice McCain: Potential but not ready yet.

7/223 S Troy Nolan: Who?

I totally disagree with the idea that Rick Smith had anything to do with the 2006 draft. Charlie Casserly was still employed, Gary Kubiak was the coach, Dan Reeves was putting his 2 cents in maybe but Rick Smith? No, I don't buy it. I'm sure he'd like to be thought of when that draft was spoken of but he didn't do that.

So really the man is batting no better than the old riverboat gambler himself Charlie Casserly. Granted Rick doesn't trade away a lot of picks like Charlie but his hit/miss ratio isn't far off the mark Charlie set. The 2007 draft is looking more and more like a disaster every year. If Jacoby pulls it out and becomes AJ's perfect compliment then things look better but right now I see a DT that can't make plays, a CB that can't make plays, and a LG who spends way too much time on the ground looking up. Jacoby Jones and Zac Diles appear right now to be the only two hits in the bunch

2008 was all Alex Gibbs getting his LT. That's worked out rather well but otherwise this was another no-impact draft IF the Texans don't get lucky with Slaton. Just like Domanick Davis before him Slaton was picked to be a role player and played his way into a starring role. To say that Smith or Kubiak expected this however would be a mistake. They knew exactly what they wanted out of Slaton so I don't give them any credit for what he could do beyond their intended role for him.

So one lucky pick and Alex Gibbs getting himself a lineman stand between this draft being another train wreck and Rick Smith pretending to be genius. Molden may still come around and hopefully will.

2009 is just too soon. There's no point in even looking at those guys yet.

On to free agents (more cut and paste stealing for me)

2007: Ahman Green, Andre Davis, Jordan Black

Ahman Green was a mistake and I was sure of that the day I heard about the signing. It was a classic Texans move. Ahman is a good citizen, a standup guy, and he robbed the Texans while he was here. Andre Davis was and remains depth at WR and nothing more. He had a great game when AJ was out, got paid for it, and ever since he's been the same receiver that didn't make much of an impact in Cleveland. Jordan Black was a joke of a signing. We could have kept Seth Wand or Todd Wade and had the same player for less money.

2008: Bentley, Chris Brown, Ferguson, Reeves, Chaun Thompson

Bentley has been good depth. Chris Brown has been an excellent presence in the training room rehabbing. Ferguson had his last good season last year. This year he's frankly not much help. Reeves will hopefully be our best corner when he returns and hopefully that should be soon. Thompson I fail to see the reason to get excited about

2009: Cody, Orlovsky, Grossman, June, Pollard.

Cody and Orlovsky are guys who didn't stick with the only team to ever lose 16 regular season games. If free agency was a shopping trip these are the two guys we picked up at the Salvation Army thrift store. Grossman frankly fell into our laps. Cato June had some potential but we'll never know. Pollard hasn't done anything yet. Hopefully that changes this week.

Our GM is highly overrated by the fanbase. At least he has been. I've been guilty of it too. It seemed like he was finding all these guys and filling holes but once it's all together who are they (or we) better than? These are guys that anybody could have picked and assembled.

Double Barrel
09-29-2009, 04:48 PM
Well...I can now see the excuse for the next head coach of the Houston Texans! It was Rick Smith's fault and will take us 3-4 years to dig out that hole yada yada yada!

Hervoyel
09-29-2009, 04:51 PM
Well...I can now see the excuse for the next head coach of the Houston Texans! It was Rick Smith's fault and will take us 3-4 years to dig out that hole yada yada yada!


Yep. I can hear it already. "The cubbard is BARE!"

New_Texans
09-29-2009, 04:54 PM
This isn't basketball, you can't build your franchise out of Free agents (i.e: Current Bostin Celtics)

If you are going to evaluate a GM you should mainly focus on the drafts imo unless there is a big checked free agency signing ala an Hanyesworth type deal that impacts the teams future endeavors cap wise. Also, we should pay close attention to what happens to Ryans, Daniels, and even Robinson when it comes to Smith's ability to maintain the talent we already have and not lose these guys to free agency. Now, Im only assuming this but I think one of the issues that is kinda putting a snag on our resigning of players is the fact that there is the labor issue on the horizon with the non capped year coming up soon but that was off season talk.

Anyway, grading Smith: B - Hes given this team capable talent, more than what we have had in the past but this talent has not congealed into a cohesive consistent group.

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 05:06 PM
I decided to look at two other teams Giants and Eagles. Let's look at the difference.

Now look at the Giants last 3 years.

2009 Rnd Name College Note
1 Hakeem Nicks North Carolina

2 Clint Sintim Virginia

2 William Beatty Connecticut

3 Travis Beckum Wisconsin

4 Andre Brown North Carolina State

5 Rhett Bomar Sam Houston State

6 DeAndre Wright New Mexico

7 Stoney Woodson South Carolina

2008 Rnd Name College Note
1 Kenny Phillips Miami (Fla.)

2 Terrell Thomas USC

3 Mario Manningham Michigan

4 Bryan Kehl BYU

5 Jonathan Goff Vanderbilt

6 Andre Woodson Kentucky

6 Robert Henderson Southern Miss *

2007 Rnd Name College Note
1 Aaron Ross Texas

2 Steve Smith USC

3 Jay Alford Penn State

4 Zak DeOssie Brown

5 Kevin Boss Western Oregon

6 Adam Koets Oregon State

7 Michael Johnson Arizona

7 Ahmad Bradshaw Marshall

Now almost all these guys have contributed, and most of the ones that have the contrinution has been significant. Some of them have been plug-ins and the GM has brought in better players, such as some of the linebackers.

You look at the way they draft RB. Derrick Ward left for a big contract, they plug in 7th rounder Ahmad Bradshaw. If Jacobs or Bradshaw want to leave or get injured, they have Andre Brown.

They needed receiver right? Manningham, Smith and even Nicks have contributed significantly.

keyser
09-29-2009, 05:11 PM
2007
4/123 CB Fred Bennett

5/144 S Brandon Harrison


2008

3/79 CB Antwaun Molden

6/173 S Dominique Barber


2009

4/112 CB Glover Quin

6/188 CB Brice McCain

7/223 S Troy Nolan



The thing that really surprised me looking at this is how much they've tried (and failed...) to address the secondary. Almost 1/3 of the draft picks in the last three years have been in the secondary! Yet, in the end, we seem to have very little to show for it (yet...). It would be a mistake to say that they haven't tried to address the secondary. It seems, though, that they're not able to get good production out of the lower-round players they are choosing to address this need with.

I was someone on the Antoine Cason bandwagon last year, and was pretty upset that we went for Brown over him. I think Duane Brown is turning out quite well (I admit that I was wrong about him - he's much better than I expected), but I still wonder if we wouldn't have been better off with Cason, who I think has been playing well (though I haven't followed him closely). It seems we are getting decent production from not-quite-as-great talent on the OL, but not so in the secondary.

Goldensilence
09-29-2009, 05:14 PM
Here are the drafts;

2007

1/10 DT Amobi Okoye

3/73 WR Jacoby Jones

4/123 CB Fred Bennett

5/144 S Brandon Harrison

5/163 G Brandon Frye

6/183 G Kasey Studdard

7/218 LB Zac Diles


2008

1/26 LT Duane Brown

3/79 CB Antwaun Molden

3/89 RB Steve Slaton

4/118 LB Xavier Adibi

5/151 DT Frank Okam

6/173 S Dominique Barber

7/223 QB Alex Brink


2009

1/15 LB Brian Cushing

2/46 DE Connor Barwin

3/77 C Antoine Caldwell

4/112 CB Glover Quin

4/122 TE Anthony Hill

5/152 TE James Casey

6/188 CB Brice McCain

7/223 S Troy Nolan



2007 - Pretty sad that your most effective player from the draft is a 7th round guy. Amobi showed early flashes but has done next to nothing since. Jacoby is hit or miss. He's made some big plays but he's also put the ball on the ground too. I thought Frye should've been kept as opposed to Studdard. I like the guy's fire but he's just not an NFL caliber guard IMO. Bennett did good in his first year but, for some reason or another has totally regressed. I'm still wondering what happened. 7 rounds...one regularly productive player.

2008 - Slaton was explosive last year and a steal in the third. I think the weight gain has affected his play. Duane Brown has coming along steadily and is possibly the best LT the franchise has fielded, FWIW. I think Adibi still has a higher ceiling then Diles but again weight gain might have affected how he plays. Highlights of the draft. However, Molden is still a big question mark. Day one I was hesitant on the pick, sure has great measurables, but I thought we couldn't afford another third round pick on project player. There were 3 capable players available at safety Tom Z, DaJuan Morgan, and Thomas DeCoud. not saying atm they are pro bowlers. Thomas DeCoud is starting for the Falcons, Tom Z is backing up Ed Reed in Baltimore, DaJuan Morgan just got supplanted by FA Mike Brown(Who i was hoping we'd sign). Barber sucks. Brink wasn't worth the 7th we spent. We're all hoping for Okam to show up.

2009. Thankfully Rick didn't get cute and went after a guy that can start from day one in Cushing. Impressive so far. Barwin, yet another project player we'll be saying " Well when Barwin develops at DE we'll be solid", Guy I wanted Unger is starting in Seattle. Levitre is starting in Buffalo and there's some other DBs that could easily be starting and cotributing as opposed to the next camp sensation Connor Barwin. I like the Caldwell pick. I think he has the chance to really contribute soon if the staff lets him. Only other player I would've liked is Rashad Johnson.Quiin shows some promise and if Hill gets healthy he might be able to contribute in blocking. Maybe Gartrell here or DJ Moore. The ONLY problem I have with the Casey pick is that we had drafted Hill already and havea good backup in Dressen. Would've liked to see Duke Robinson here, Victor "Macho" Harris,Maybe Chris Clemons. Not a big quarrel with McCain in the sixth James Davis might've been a better value though. A.Q Shipley, Trevor Canfield, and Rashad Jennings were all there in the and could've given us much needed depth on the OL.

If I was grading at this moment a C. He's made some value picks but at the same time some big ones have busted. Also been less then stellar in his high end FA additions.

Goldensilence
09-29-2009, 05:17 PM
The thing that really surprised me looking at this is how much they've tried (and failed...) to address the secondary. Almost 1/3 of the draft picks in the last three years have been in the secondary! Yet, in the end, we seem to have very little to show for it (yet...). It would be a mistake to say that they haven't tried to address the secondary. It seems, though, that they're not able to get good production out of the lower-round players they are choosing to address this need with.

I was someone on the Antoine Cason bandwagon last year, and was pretty upset that we went for Brown over him. I think Duane Brown is turning out quite well (I admit that I was wrong about him - he's much better than I expected), but I still wonder if we wouldn't have been better off with Cason, who I think has been playing well (though I haven't followed him closely). It seems we are getting decent production from not-quite-as-great talent on the OL, but not so in the secondary.

Shouldn't have to point this out but when you wait so late in the draft to take care of a big need like our secondary(That is when you pass up on legit FA players) it's no wonder they've missed. Molden was and still is a project they picked in the third.

Mr. White
09-29-2009, 05:19 PM
I don't think you can really evaluate Rick Smith without evaluating Gary Kubiak.

Assuming that we're running off the Shanahan model, Rick Smith answers to the HC.

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 05:20 PM
Now the Eagles

2009 Rnd Name College Note

1 Jeremy Maclin Missouri

2 LeSean McCoy Pittsburgh

5 Cornelius Ingram Florida

5 Victor Harris Virginia Tech

5 Fenuki Tupou Oregon

6 Brandon Gibson Washington State

7 Paul Fanaika Arizona State

7 Moise Fokou Maryland *

2008 Rnd Name College Note

2 Trevor Laws Notre Dame

2 DeSean Jackson California

3 Bryan Smith McNeese State

4 Mike McGlynn Pittsburgh

4 Quintin Demps Texas-El Paso

4 Jack Ikegwuonu Wisconsin

6 Mike Gibson California

6 Joe Mays North Dakota State

6 Andy Studebaker Wheaton

7 King Dunlap Auburn *

2007 Rnd Name College Note

2 Kevin Kolb Houston

2 Victor Abiamiri Notre Dame

3 Stewart Bradley Nebraska

3 Tony Hunt Penn State

5 C.J. Gaddis Clemson

5 Brent Celek Cincinnati

6 Rashad Barksdale Albany State (NY)

7 Nate Ilaoa Hawaii

Again, a lot of these guys have contributed significantly. Even some of the rookies. 5th rounder Victor Harris is already playing well.


To respond to TexansChick about 5th rounders, just take a look at these drafts. The Eagles don't seem to mind trading down and grabbing late round draft picks. Why? Because they have confidence that their scouting team has done a good job of identifying players that can contribute and still be taken late.

I picked two winning teams to show that players picked low and recently can be significant contributions on teams loaded with talent. We've only been looking at the players that have contributed on our team that has average talent.

New_Texans
09-29-2009, 05:38 PM
Now the Eagles

2009 Rnd Name College Note

1 Jeremy Maclin Missouri

2 LeSean McCoy Pittsburgh

5 Cornelius Ingram Florida

5 Victor Harris Virginia Tech

5 Fenuki Tupou Oregon

6 Brandon Gibson Washington State

7 Paul Fanaika Arizona State

7 Moise Fokou Maryland *

2008 Rnd Name College Note

2 Trevor Laws Notre Dame

2 DeSean Jackson California

3 Bryan Smith McNeese State

4 Mike McGlynn Pittsburgh

4 Quintin Demps Texas-El Paso

4 Jack Ikegwuonu Wisconsin

6 Mike Gibson California

6 Joe Mays North Dakota State

6 Andy Studebaker Wheaton

7 King Dunlap Auburn *

2007 Rnd Name College Note

2 Kevin Kolb Houston

2 Victor Abiamiri Notre Dame

3 Stewart Bradley Nebraska

3 Tony Hunt Penn State

5 C.J. Gaddis Clemson

5 Brent Celek Cincinnati

6 Rashad Barksdale Albany State (NY)

7 Nate Ilaoa Hawaii

Again, a lot of these guys have contributed significantly. Even some of the rookies. 5th rounder Victor Harris is already playing well.


To respond to TexansChick about 5th rounders, just take a look at these drafts. The Eagles don't seem to mind trading down and grabbing late round draft picks. Why? Because they have confidence that their scouting team has done a good job of identifying players that can contribute and still be taken late.

I picked two winning teams to show that players picked low and recently can be significant contributions on teams loaded with talent. We've only been looking at the players that have contributed on our team that has average talent.

Consider those two teams coaches...Andy Reid and Tom Coughlin.

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 05:53 PM
Consider those two teams coaches...Andy Reid and Tom Coughlin.

It's a good point because it takes good coaching to get talent to develop.

I think its a compound problem that we have on this team on defense. We don't draft wisely on defense and the players don't develop much.

Our offense could be a lot better too, believe it or not. Imagine what Kubiak's offense could be doing with 3 capable RBs. Why Smith hasn't made moves for another 1 or 2 young, talented RBs I can't figure out.

JB
09-30-2009, 08:36 AM
The thing that really surprised me looking at this is how much they've tried (and failed...) to address the secondary. Almost 1/3 of the draft picks in the last three years have been in the secondary! Yet, in the end, we seem to have very little to show for it (yet...). It would be a mistake to say that they haven't tried to address the secondary. It seems, though, that they're not able to get good production out of the lower-round players they are choosing to address this need with.

I was someone on the Antoine Cason bandwagon last year, and was pretty upset that we went for Brown over him. I think Duane Brown is turning out quite well (I admit that I was wrong about him - he's much better than I expected), but I still wonder if we wouldn't have been better off with Cason, who I think has been playing well (though I haven't followed him closely). It seems we are getting decent production from not-quite-as-great talent on the OL, but not so in the secondary.


I think this points to the woeful job our scouting department has done. The only tie ( other than McNair) between the Capers & Kubiak regimes?

leebigeztx
09-30-2009, 09:00 AM
I used to think there was overreaction on the rockets board,but its even worse here. Smith has done a good job rebuilding this team. Look at the talent prior to the kubes/smith era till now. What is not happening fast enough is young guys getting better fast enough. Unless they collapse, I wouldn't make any moves because then you're having too much changeover.

DerekLee1
09-30-2009, 10:56 AM
Consider those two teams coaches...Andy Reid and Tom Coughlin.

Consider what both of those coaches started with when they took over. Good teams with a few missing pieces. After 4 years, the Texans were as bad (or worse) than what we started with in the expansion draft. There were holes and needs at every position on this teams except for the #1 WR slot and the #1 CB slot.

New_Texans
09-30-2009, 12:57 PM
Consider what both of those coaches started with when they took over. Good teams with a few missing pieces. After 4 years, the Texans were as bad (or worse) than what we started with in the expansion draft. There were holes and needs at every position on this teams except for the #1 WR slot and the #1 CB slot.

Andy Reid and Tom Coughlin are far greater than Gary Kubiak is at this moment. You can even look at their coaching tree and shake your head at the guys who have come from their staff to become NFL head coaches. So, the point im making is that Kubiak may not be the guy to take us over the hump...hes the guy to leave the pieces for another (hopefully better) coach can lift us over that wall of mediocrity.

Kyle Shanahan stays though...

TexansSeminole
11-08-2010, 03:54 PM
Over a year later, I still feel the same way I did when I initially started this thread. How do yall feel? Alot of people last year were saying it's too early to grade Rick Smith. How do you feel now?

My take on the 2009 draft:

2009

1/15 LB Brian Cushing (I like him, even though he has been less than stellar this year. Let's just hope he starts to play like he did last year again. Starter.)

2/46 DE Connor Barwin (Has contributed but we won't know how much he has improved or if he could have turned into a every down type of player this year. So far he seems to be simply a situational pass-rusher. A 2nd round situational player.)

3/77 C Antoine Caldwell (I like him, but he hasn't won the starting job yet over Brisiel. Maybe he will replace Myers at C, or take over one of the guard positions after Kubiak is gone.)

4/112 CB Glover Quin (I have no idea. He shows flashes but, like all of our corners, gets beat regularly. My question is how much of this is on the safeties and/or scheme, not the corners.)

4/122 TE Anthony Hill (??? Injured/No impact)

5/152 TE James Casey (Shown flashes, but as was expected he can't see the field often due to the amount of TEs we have on this roster.)

6/188 CB Brice McCain (Terrible football player. Reeves should have his roster spot right now.)

7/223 S Troy Nolan (Shown flashes, but overall inconsistent. May be the best FS we have though, which is really really sad.)

2010 draft

Rd 1, Pick 20 (20) Jackson, Kareem CB
Rd 2, Pick 26 (58) Tate, Ben RB
Rd 3, Pick 17 (81) Mitchell, Earl DT
Rd 4, Pick 4 (102) Sharpton, Darryl LB
Rd 4, Pick 20 (118) Graham, Garrett TE
Rd 5, Pick 13 (144) McManis, Sherrick CB
Rd 6, Pick 18 (187) Smith, Shelley OG
Rd 6, Pick 28 (197) Holliday, Trindon KR
Rd 7, Pick 20 (227) Dickerson, Dorin TE

Hervoyel
11-08-2010, 04:46 PM
At the end of the day you have to look at results. The Texans aren't going to the playoffs this year and that will be 4 straight years without any playoff appearances.

He's been awful at acquiring talent in free agency.

He's not the worst GM in the league by any means, but he isn't a good one either. He is just an average one, and I'd like the Texans to have a guy that is better than average.


I don't think that tells the whole story. He's had mixed results in free agency. In the big moves like signing Ahman Green for example he's done poorly. When it came to finding players to fill holes in season he's done very well. Demps was a guy we were all excited about when he came here. DelJuan Robinson was a very disruptive force on the line before he got enough Richard Smith coaching to shut him down so he'd sit quietly behind Amobi like a good little street free agent.

It's hard to tell whether Smtih gets the players Kubiak wants or Kubiak has to work with the players Smith gives him. We all know that they do it collaboratively but as things turn sour you watch and see how they each kind of push the responsibility for the bad picks and decisions towards each other.

It's going to be very hard trying to figure out who the problem is from where we are sitting. McNair and a handful of others inside the organization are probably the only people who know for certain and even most of them probably have an allegience towards one or the other.

That's assuming the problem isn't both of them. :mariopalm:

Norg
11-08-2010, 04:55 PM
our draft picking is middle of the road no doubt but surely not the best