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View Full Version : The 61-yd. MJD run


eriadoc
09-28-2009, 04:23 PM
Maybe someone that has it recorded can answer this question:

I keep hearing how Busing did a terrible job on that play, and he did, but what if he had filled the gap he was supposed to fill? He'd be there one on one vs. MJD in an alley big enough to drive a truck through. OK, so it probably wouldn't have been a TD, as Busing would most likely be a decent speed bump anyway, but why is no one talking about the other ten players on that play? If the design of that play is to put Busing in position to make a solo tackle, then that's a crappy defensive alignment anyway.

TheRealJoker
09-28-2009, 04:28 PM
Its just an example of our coaches outsmarting the other team. Put our worst starters in a position to make plays! Use Mario, DeMeco, and Cushing to block the OL and let our DTs and Safeties go nuts!!!

silvrhand
09-28-2009, 04:38 PM
Maybe someone that has it recorded can answer this question:

I keep hearing how Busing did a terrible job on that play, and he did, but what if he had filled the gap he was supposed to fill? He'd be there one on one vs. MJD in an alley big enough to drive a truck through. OK, so it probably wouldn't have been a TD, as Busing would most likely be a decent speed bump anyway, but why is no one talking about the other ten players on that play? If the design of that play is to put Busing in position to make a solo tackle, then that's a crappy defensive alignment anyway.

A good safety makes that play but also our corner jumped way outside and upfield which was a bit suprising, he should of followed the TE blocking down and given himself a chance to make the tackle.

#93 got sealed off by the TE, #66 got blasted as well, they are at least 3 yards downfield when MJD hits the LOS.

#56 fills what I believe is the original gap, and tries to circle around behind him, but can't quite get there, not going to happen often if at all on good backs.

#40 starts to fill in about 7 yards behind #56 but doesnt' see MJD on the cutback, which ultimately is the last chance at making the tackle.

IMHO, #93, and the CB made bad moves, and Busing didn't see the cutback which is score 6 for the jaguars.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d812faa57/NFL-GameDay-Jaguars-vs-Texans-highlights

silvrhand
09-28-2009, 04:41 PM
Double post fail..

76Texan
09-28-2009, 05:08 PM
A good safety makes that play but also our corner jumped way outside and upfield which was a bit suprising, he should of followed the TE blocking down and given himself a chance to make the tackle.

#93 got sealed off by the TE, #66 got blasted as well, they are at least 3 yards downfield when MJD hits the LOS.

#56 fills what I believe is the original gap, and tries to circle around behind him, but can't quite get there, not going to happen often if at all on good backs.

#40 starts to fill in about 7 yards behind #56 but doesnt' see MJD on the cutback, which ultimately is the last chance at making the tackle.

IMHO, #93, and the CB made bad moves, and Busing didn't see the cutback which is score 6 for the jaguars.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/houston-texans/09000d5d812faa57/NFL-GameDay-Jaguars-vs-Texans-highlights
I would say it's on Bulman and Busing.
Bennett had to watch for the reverse.

silvrhand
09-28-2009, 05:43 PM
I would say it's on Bulman and Busing.
Bennett had to watch for the reverse.

The reverse is pretty obvious when it's coming from that side of the view, You can see it coming a mile away from the position he was in. The CB is just way out of position to make a play on anything but the reverse which makes it one less person for anyone to attack, and makes the cutback much easier for MJD.

If he slides down at the TE blocks down he's in a better position to force a decision for MJD, do I cut up, or do I try to bounce it outside, and with this the CB has a chance to make a tackle.

Either way it's a pretty good cutback by MJD, and he's hard to spot, but ultimately 2 and IMHO 3 players were at fault.

Goldensilence
09-28-2009, 05:44 PM
Quite frankly if the entire Texans defense didn't start out with the entire game plan to stop MJD and make Garrard try and win the game. They rightfully lost.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2009, 05:51 PM
You know the thing that pisses me off most? A majority of these long runs have come off of zone blocking. I mean, WTF? Does our D not see the ZBS every darn day at practice?! Crazy, I tell ya

dalemurphy
09-28-2009, 05:58 PM
Quite frankly if the entire Texans defense didn't start out with the entire game plan to stop MJD and make Garrard try and win the game. They rightfully lost.

He had 58 rushing yards on 22 carries if you take away the 61 yd TD. I mention that not to excuse the run defense but to point out that the yards weren't a result of not focusing on him. They certainly did... that's why the QB run and reverse was so effective off the fake to MJD.

76Texan
09-28-2009, 06:00 PM
The reverse is pretty obvious when it's coming from that side of the view, You can see it coming a mile away from the position he was in. The CB is just way out of position to make a play on anything but the reverse which makes it one less person for anyone to attack, and makes the cutback much easier for MJD.

If he slides down at the TE blocks down he's in a better position to force a decision for MJD, do I cut up, or do I try to bounce it outside, and with this the CB has a chance to make a tackle.

Either way it's a pretty good cutback by MJD, and he's hard to spot, but ultimately 2 and IMHO 3 players were at fault.
We're talking about game speed here, come on!

When Bennett saw the receiver coming from the other side, he still has to watch for it. That fake is good enough to freeze the best CB in the league, IMO.

Goldensilence
09-28-2009, 06:04 PM
He had 58 rushing yards on 22 carries if you take away the 61 yd TD. I mention that not to excuse the run defense but to point out that the yards weren't a result of not focusing on him. They certainly did... that's why the QB run and reverse was so effective off the fake to MJD.

Yeah you left out two touchdowns as well when you didn't include the 61 yarder.

Same thing I've heard two weeks prior, well if you don't count X big play the defense did fine. Problem is in reality the big gains DO count.

silvrhand
09-28-2009, 06:08 PM
We're talking about game speed here, come on!

When Bennett saw the receiver coming from the other side, he still has to watch for it. That fake is good enough to freeze the best CB in the league, IMO.

We played a horrible 4-2-5 SAM defense in high school I got stuck almost in the same position that this guy was. &ou can easily see the receiver swinging around. You can easily slide down on the line while keeping your eyes in the backfield to look what's coming and clearly cover the reverse.

You DE getting blown down the field by the TE doesn't help, god he got pushed 3-4 yards off the line.

76Texan
09-28-2009, 06:13 PM
We're talking about game speed here, come on!

When Bennett saw the receiver coming from the other side, he still has to watch for it. That fake is good enough to freeze the best CB in the league, IMO.
And remember, it was a well-design play by the Jags.
Garrard made his turn to the other side to hide the ball from the defenders.

Furthermore, I have to wonder about communications in the defense back end.

Even if Busing can't see the receiver clearly, either Wilson or Dunta should have signaled to him in some form.
I think Wilson should also take a step further inside as the receiver went into motion to the slot.
Both he and Dunta did not react very well to the play either.

There are too many signs of a poorly coached football team.
Not just in this particular play.
The players are not prepared for all the different things the opponent may do in certain situation.

Shaft75
09-28-2009, 06:15 PM
Well, I told him what I thought about it...

http://www.texansbullpen.com/09photogallery/Season/2009-09-27-Jaguars-Texans/4thQuarter/DSC_1020.JPG

thunderkyss
09-28-2009, 06:18 PM
Quite frankly if the entire Texans defense didn't start out with the entire game plan to stop MJD and make Garrard try and win the game. They rightfully lost.

I think that was the plan. Mario is usually pretty good about his responsiblity, but he ran afte MJD, and Garard ran for 30 because Mario didn't do his job.

We play with Blinders on.

Just like 2006, when everybody was talking about Mario not getting sacks & the pressure was on him to get sacks, and he seemingly didn't care about anything other than getting a sack.... screens, reverses, bootlegs...... all went right by him. Up until yesterday, that hadn't happened since his rookie season. Well, not as often. Last year, it didn't happen.

Texan_Bill
09-28-2009, 06:18 PM
Well, I told him what I thought about it...

http://www.texansbullpen.com/09photogallery/Season/2009-09-27-Jaguars-Texans/4thQuarter/DSC_1020.JPG

LMAO!!! Shaft, I didn't catch the finger gesture until now.. Good stuff!!!

76Texan
09-28-2009, 06:19 PM
LMAO!!! Shaft, I didn't catch the finger gesture until now.. Good stuff!!!
You still not quite sober, TB? LOL!

Wolf
09-28-2009, 06:21 PM
I have had deja vu 4 times now with basically that play and the defense getting blown apart... I imagine all offensive coordinators are making sure a run play like that is added to the audibles when a team plays us :gun:

Texan_Bill
09-28-2009, 06:22 PM
You still not quite sober, TB? LOL!

The vision is still a little blury....... or was that MJD flashing by??

thunderkyss
09-28-2009, 06:37 PM
I would say it's on Bulman and Busing.
Bennett had to watch for the reverse.

I agree. Bennett had to watch the reverse. Not that he would have done anything anyway, but that was definitely his responsibility.

I'm not blaming Busing.. he probably couldn't see MJD (all 5' 6" of him). Bullman's job is to force the run in.... he didn't do it, against a Tight end at that..... shouldn't happen.

The rookie also hesitated. He should have been, and he's often been in the backfield on that play.

That's not a Zone play, but the job the LT & guard did on DelJuan is text book double team. The guard takes him straight on, and the LT pops him for 3 yards. There's nothing DelJuan can do there.

But being that Cush got through that gap clean, in actuallity, DelJuan did "good enough" If Bullman holds his end, MJD would be running right at Busing.

As it is, Busing is too far inside to be effective if MJD takes it outside, which he did.

Shaft75
09-28-2009, 07:36 PM
The vision is still a little blury....... or was that MJD flashing by??

What sucks is after a home loss I tend to drink waaaaayyyyy more. I only pull out the number 1 on those rare occasions...

Norg
09-29-2009, 12:01 AM
What i wanna know is was Jones drew blowing kisses to the crowd how Lame

leebigeztx
09-29-2009, 01:38 AM
There is a reason why the call him a safety. He is the last line of defense. There is also a reason why troy p,sanders, nor reed started or played alot as safeties. Thatsis probably the hardest position to play when everything happens in front of you. Busing did a terrible job in gap control, didn't read his keys and the player got out the gate. The left side of the d line is killing the texans. All the big runs on cut back are coming opposite of mario.

silvrhand
09-29-2009, 08:42 AM
There is a reason why the call him a safety. He is the last line of defense. There is also a reason why troy p,sanders, nor reed started or played alot as safeties. Thatsis probably the hardest position to play when everything happens in front of you. Busing did a terrible job in gap control, didn't read his keys and the player got out the gate. The left side of the d line is killing the texans. All the big runs on cut back are coming opposite of mario.

He did read his keys, if you watch him flow to the hole that was originally there that Cushing fills, there was just a huge cutback lane cause the DE got crushed and the CB flowed way too far upfield which gave MJD a truck size hole to burn through.

The safety is the last line of defense no doubt, but that is a tough one to completely lay on the safety.

Blake
09-29-2009, 08:57 AM
Not to pile on the guys, but Tim Bullman getting pushed back and twisted to the inside, and Busing not being aware of where the runner is and running into a pile while MJD scampers around the side, are the reasons the play happened. I am really disapointed in Bullman. That was horrible to watch.

Mr teX
09-29-2009, 09:31 AM
As i've been saying all along...8 in the box is 8 in the box & if you can't stop the run with that, then you're losing battles and/or guys are not taking care of their responsibilities.

reading through this thread pretty much confirmed what i already observed.

Bullman/Deljaun getting blasted out of the play...

Busing caught looking inside & not taking care of his running lane...

Bennett coming too far up field trying to set the edge...


We just don't have the personnel to overcome mistakes like that. Some of it's coaching, but the overwhelming majority of it is our guys getting their asses kicked at the LOS & having mental lapses.

Blake
09-29-2009, 09:48 AM
Bennett coming too far up field trying to set the edge...

Personally I think Bennett was doing a good job attacking the QB and RB or WR that was running to the sideline with Garrard.

It is always better to force the run inside than give them the edge.

Mr teX
09-29-2009, 10:01 AM
Personally I think Bennett was doing a good job attacking the QB and RB or WR that was running to the sideline with Garrard.

It is always better to force the run inside than give them the edge.

no i'm not saying he did a terrible job at forcing the run inside, he ultimately did what he was supposed to do in that regard, but he put himself out of the play essentially by coming too far up field.

silvrhand
09-29-2009, 10:25 AM
Personally I think Bennett was doing a good job attacking the QB and RB or WR that was running to the sideline with Garrard.

It is always better to force the run inside than give them the edge.

He put himself completely out of play for anything other than a reverse, what's he going to do blitz the QB on a bootleg while they dump it on the TE in the flat?

The DE getting blown up is the main issue, the corner coming upfield entirely too far is another, and the Busing not see'ing the cutback is the final blow to this run. 3 players, 3 mistakes, game over.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Bennett had to watch for the reverse.

We're talking about game speed here!

When Bennett saw the receiver coming from the other side, he has to watch for it.
That fake is good enough to freeze the best CB in the league.

And remember, it was a well-design play by the Jags.
Garrard made his turn to the other side to hide the ball from the defenders.

Bennett was only about a yard to a yard and a half in the backfield
when he saw the receiver coming for the fake reverse.
The only logical thing for him to do is to take a couple more steps toward the mesh point.
He was less than 3 yds behind the LOS.
His pivot foot was only 2 yd from the LOS.
He didn't go too far, IMO.

In fact, the way he shuffled his feet before making the move further downfield, it sure looks like his main assignment is just that.

bigbrewster2000
09-29-2009, 10:36 AM
Yeah you left out two touchdowns as well when you didn't include the 61 yarder.

Same thing I've heard two weeks prior, well if you don't count X big play the defense did fine. Problem is in reality the big gains DO count.

Actually what he said was he wasnt excusing the 61 yard run but showed the stats without the run to state that they were paying attention to him the entire game. What that does is make it worse. We keyed in on the guy and he still torched us for 100 yards and 3 scores. Man our defense is sooooo bad.:gun:

76Texan
09-29-2009, 11:04 AM
Bennett had to watch for the reverse.

We're talking about game speed here!

When Bennett saw the receiver coming from the other side, he has to watch for it.
That fake is good enough to freeze the best CB in the league.

And remember, it was a well-design play by the Jags.
Garrard made his turn to the other side to hide the ball from the defenders.

Bennett was only about a yard to a yard and a half in the backfield
when he saw the receiver coming for the fake reverse.
The only logical thing for him to do is to take a couple more steps toward the mesh point.
He was less than 3 yds behind the LOS.
His pivot foot was only 2 yd from the LOS.
He didn't go too far, IMO.

In fact, the way he shuffled his feet before making the move further downfield, it sure looks like his main assignment is just that.

In fact, if Bulman was able just to hold off the TE, Bennett still could have come back and make the tackle (or at least attempting the tackle) on MJD.

And if Bulman was able to win the battle over the TE (which he should have), Bennett would most surely make that tackle.

Mr teX
09-29-2009, 12:18 PM
Bennett had to watch for the reverse.

We're talking about game speed here!

When Bennett saw the receiver coming from the other side, he has to watch for it.
That fake is good enough to freeze the best CB in the league.

And remember, it was a well-design play by the Jags.
Garrard made his turn to the other side to hide the ball from the defenders.

Bennett was only about a yard to a yard and a half in the backfield
when he saw the receiver coming for the fake reverse.
The only logical thing for him to do is to take a couple more steps toward the mesh point.
He was less than 3 yds behind the LOS.
His pivot foot was only 2 yd from the LOS.
He didn't go too far, IMO.

In fact, the way he shuffled his feet before making the move further downfield, it sure looks like his main assignment is just that.

Yeah but a yard & a half is all it takes to be out of position in the NFL, you know that. A cb beaten by a yard and a half is WIDE open; especially if you're like him & don't have the make up speed. Yeah, you're right we're talking about game speed, & Busing just taking a step over inside put him out of position. All he really had to do to protect against the reverse is basically just look out for it for a split second while he was coming up to set the edge against the run. Even if they wound up giving it to the WR, he would've been able to recover in time to stop it for a minimal gain (assuming he makes the tackle) b/c reverses happen well behind the LOS.

But his situation was made worse & he was put in a bad situation b/c Busing got sucked in & Bulman got beat.

Vinny
09-29-2009, 12:21 PM
In the preseason I said that we would see more big plays against this style of defense with our personnel. I'm not even sleeping at a Holiday Inn.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 02:07 PM
Yeah but a yard & a half is all it takes to be out of position in the NFL, you know that. A cb beaten by a yard and a half is WIDE open; especially if you're like him & don't have the make up speed. Yeah, you're right we're talking about game speed, & Busing just taking a step over inside put him out of position. All he really had to do to protect against the reverse is basically just look out for it for a split second while he was coming up to set the edge against the run. Even if they wound up giving it to the WR, he would've been able to recover in time to stop it for a minimal gain (assuming he makes the tackle) b/c reverses happen well behind the LOS.

But his situation was made worse & he was put in a bad situation b/c Busing got sucked in & Bulman got beat.

But he's not beaten by a yard and a half.
Bulman allowed that gap.

If you draw a straight line between him and MJD at the start of the play, the mid-point would be on the 36 yd line, between the numbers and the hash marks. He did not go beyond that.

I do not agree with the notion that he overran the play.
He was right where he's supposed to be as long as Bulman can maintain his gap assignment.

nunusguy
09-29-2009, 02:19 PM
I dunno how come the Denver Broncos, with all of their problems they had with the transition to a new HC and all which included the loss of the best and MVP on their team, are now 3-0 and they are in the transition of a 4-3 D to a 3-4 D, something that's much more involved and complicated than what we are doing with our D ?

Battle Red Flash
09-29-2009, 02:57 PM
As i've been saying all along...8 in the box is 8 in the box & if you can't stop the run with that, then you're losing battles and/or guys are not taking care of their responsibilities.


True.

Thorn
09-29-2009, 02:58 PM
I dunno how come the Denver Broncos, with all of their problems they had with the transition to a new HC and all which included the loss of the best and MVP on their team, are now 3-0 and they are in the transition of a 4-3 D to a 3-4 D, something that's much more involved and complicated than what we are doing with our D ?


Because we're Houston and we suck at pro football. After following the Oilers since the early 70s all the way up to now, all I've known is disappointment. But yet I keep coming back.

Makes you wonder who's the more stupid, fans like me, or the coachs, GMs and players?

Runner
09-29-2009, 03:01 PM
I dunno how come the Denver Broncos, with all of their problems they had with the transition to a new HC and all which included the loss of the best and MVP on their team, are now 3-0 and they are in the transition of a 4-3 D to a 3-4 D, something that's much more involved and complicated than what we are doing with our D ?

The sarcastic answer is because Denver isn't doing it "the right way".

It's becoming more clear every year that the Texans are doing some things "the wrong way".

=========

The normal "reasons" can be applied, although they seem stale this year:

Denver has had success the previous decade and the Texans (pick one: were an expansion team; had Casserly and Capers). I think it's been long enough; the US entered and helped end WWII in less time, albeit before the salary cap era.

The schedule is too hard, the Texans are in a tough division, etc. I agree with this - the NFL has been too hard for the Texans to post a winning record.

(insert one: Fisher; Pittsburgh) had slow builds to success. While that may be true, it doesn't say anything about the Texans future.

In the end, every year teams jump from average or below to the playoffs. Some are one year wonders; some build on the success. Either way, the teams had some real success. The Texans haven't been able to do that and don't appear to be on their way this year. Something isn't working as well for the Texans as it is for other teams. Every year.

Dan B.
09-29-2009, 03:11 PM
I'm not by any means saying things are perfect in Houston, but Denver has BARELY beaten a decent Cincinnatti team and then danced a jig on the still fresh corpses of Cleveland and Oakland. They are about to play Dallas, New England, @ San Diego, @ Baltimore, and Pittsburgh. Let's give them another month to see who they really are.

We'll have a much better idea of where we stand wrt Denver after this weekend when we have an opponent in common.

badboy
09-29-2009, 03:19 PM
In yesterday's show on sport show 610, Kube's said it was player execution. Well to me that is on the defensive C. If a player is beat such as a CB being in correct position but WR still makes the catch that is one thing. However, if it is poor execution maybe the D coach needs to sit that player for a series and put someone else out there. Something needs to change with this defense NOW. Prior to season most agreed that the D only had to become just a bit better to make Texans a better team. That "bit" hasn't happened.

Mr teX
09-29-2009, 03:19 PM
I dunno how come the Denver Broncos, with all of their problems they had with the transition to a new HC and all which included the loss of the best and MVP on their team, are now 3-0 and they are in the transition of a 4-3 D to a 3-4 D, something that's much more involved and complicated than what we are doing with our D ?

I'm tired of all this sudden love for Denver's Defense & their "improbable" turnaround....

Denver's schedule up to this point:

Bengals - lucky play puts them past the surprising bengals
Browns - might be the worst team in the NFL
Raiders - Have the worst Qb in the NFL.

Denver's up coming schedule:

Dallas
NE
San Diego
Baltimore
Pittsburgh
Washington
San Diego
NY Giants

Yikes!

In other words, they might very well real off 8 straight losses..we'll see how Denver & Nolan's defense look then.

swtbound07
09-29-2009, 03:25 PM
Its a good thing the Defense held up this week, otherwise i would have had to open this thread and ask "which one?"

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:26 PM
I would say it's on Bulman and Busing.
Bennett had to watch for the reverse.

Bennett was 3 yards too far to the outside to have any shot at the RB. We had that side of the line stacked, and they ran straight into it. Bulman and Cody get manhandled, and then Busing jumps to the middle when MJD is already running to Busing's left. Busing and Bennett were both out of position, and Cody and Bulman couldn't bust the wall.

DT and secondary (CB's are only SLIGHTLY better than our safeties) are still our weakest positions, and until they get fixed, we're going to see some points rolled up on us. I had hope going into this season that we could get some players to overachieve, or that Frank Bush would devise some creative schemes to allow his best guys to make plays, but so far, that hasn't happened.


http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/DerekLee1/cap003.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/DerekLee1/cap004.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/DerekLee1/cap005.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/DerekLee1/cap006.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/DerekLee1/cap007.jpg

http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d49/DerekLee1/cap008.jpg

Mr teX
09-29-2009, 03:28 PM
Good post DL. Bennett was just way out of position period.

Runner
09-29-2009, 03:49 PM
We'll have a much better idea of where we stand wrt Denver after this weekend when we have an opponent in common.

Be careful what you ask for.

Texans defenses used to be get well pills for quarterbacks.* This year the defense is a tonic for running backs. If there was ever a back who needed an elixir, McFadden is the one.



*I can understand that; as a QB guru Kubiak is supposed to make QBs look good. :sarcasm:

Vinny
09-29-2009, 03:55 PM
Bennett was 3 yards too far to the outside to have any shot at the RB. We had that side of the line stacked, and they ran straight into it. Bulman and Cody get manhandled, and then Busing jumps to the middle when MJD is already running to Busing's left. Busing and Bennett were both out of position, and Cody and Bulman couldn't bust the wall.

DT and secondary (CB's are only SLIGHTLY better than our safeties) are still our weakest positions, and until they get fixed, we're going to see some points rolled up on us. I had hope going into this season that we could get some players to overachieve, or that Frank Bush would devise some creative schemes to allow his best guys to make plays, but so far, that hasn't happened.


my first reaction is where the hell is the OLB? Cushing is in a gap anticipating an inside run. This is a good example of why running so much run blizing, gap control defense doesn't work unless you have a secondary that is instinctive and can make tackles. Cushing didn't look all that great here and he didn't look all that great when he took on Garrard one on one at the goal line (Garrard scored easily on that one).

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:58 PM
Good post DL. Bennett was just way out of position period.

Thanks. You have to also credit MJD on that play for having great vision. Great back spot the holes and the defensive players out of position. He hit that edge quick and then took off like a lightning bolt. Too bad Slaton doesn't.

And I have no idea what Bennett thought he was going to accomplish from 3 yards to the outside and behind the offensive line. But had he been in position, like Kubiak said, MJD would have been stopped for a loss. Had Busing been in position and had better vision, he would have stopped him for a yard or two gain. Players will make mistakes occasionally, but when two or more guys make mistakes, it's disaster. There's no one there to get your back.

Vinny
09-29-2009, 03:59 PM
Thanks. You have to also credit MJD on that play for having great vision. Great back spot the holes and the defensive players out of position. He hit that edge quick and then took off like a lightning bolt. Too bad Slaton doesn't.

And I have no idea what Bennett thought he was going to accomplish from 3 yards to the outside and behind the offensive line. But had he been in position, like Kubiak said, MJD would have been stopped for a loss. Had Busing been in position and had better vision, he would have stopped him for a yard or two gain. Players will make mistakes occasionally, but when two or more guys make mistakes, it's disaster. There's no one there to get your back.

He thought the end around was the play. You can tell he took a wide step as the WR came across the back of Garrard. The biggest problems on this play are the front 7 defenders imo. The DE and the OLB are supposed to be the front line defenders on this weak side blast.

Dan B.
09-29-2009, 03:59 PM
Be careful what you ask for.

Texans defenses used to be get well pills for quarterbacks.* This year the defense is a tonic for running backs. If there was ever a back who needed an elixir, McFadden is the one.



*I can understand that; as a QB guru Kubiak is supposed to make QBs look goo). :sarcasm:

Believe me I'm not predicting that we will shut down Russell. I have no idea what will happen. Jamarcus can certainly be forced into making mistakes. Can we force them?

I think you are correct that Darren might have a few nice runs.

I kind of think Denver has a chance to show who they are in their next two games. Romo is vulnerable, and depending on which Orton we see Denver might have a chance in that one. New England hasn't looked unbeatable either. And the Broncs have the luxury of both games at Invesco.

Once we've seen that, we'll have a better chance to compare Denver and Houston. Both will have played some good teams (although IMO the Jets are the best opponent either will face until Denver goes to San Diego). Both will have had some bad opponents. And for all we know both will be 3-2.

leebigeztx
09-29-2009, 04:05 PM
He did read his keys, if you watch him flow to the hole that was originally there that Cushing fills, there was just a huge cutback lane cause the DE got crushed and the CB flowed way too far upfield which gave MJD a truck size hole to burn through.

The safety is the last line of defense no doubt, but that is a tough one to completely lay on the safety.


He didn't read his keys because if he did he wouldn't been inside. He was out of position and his angle and help were dead. If he reads his keys, he's in the hole, not sucked into the line and now all a 4.3 mjd has to do is run a staright line. I didn't say he was the only reason, i'm just saying we don't need matt stevens angles again.

leebigeztx
09-29-2009, 04:16 PM
DL, I am glad you posted those pics. Its even more clear that busing was way out of position and lost his gap control. If the middle is clogged up and bennett is upfield, he shouldve filled that gap in between the tackle and te. He didn't and mjd had a easy run. He was so inside and if you look at how the other safety was already trying to get the angle. If bussing fill that gap and the other safety is rolling over the top, that's not a 61 yrd run.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 04:23 PM
DL, I am glad you posted those pics. Its even more clear that busing was way out of position and lost his gap control. If the middle is clogged up and bennett is upfield, he shouldve filled that gap in between the tackle and te. He didn't and mjd had a easy run. He was so inside and if you look at how the other safety was already trying to get the angle. If bussing fill that gap and the other safety is rolling over the top, that's not a 61 yrd run.

Exactly. And if Cushing is filling the gap in the middle, why is Busing ALSO jumping to the middle? Two guys caused that: Busing and Bennett (who bit for the end around instead of following the ball).

silvrhand
09-29-2009, 04:50 PM
Exactly. And if Cushing is filling the gap in the middle, why is Busing ALSO jumping to the middle? Two guys caused that: Busing and Bennett (who bit for the end around instead of following the ball).

Ok you guys do realize that the cutback by MJD was not by design? watch the linemen blockdown towards the right they are pushing for a hole that opens where Cushing fills. The SS will flow to the direction of the play which he did, you follow the direction of the blocks towards the play, flowing with everyone and watching the RB. The only play that should have came that way was the end around which would have probably just been as effective.

The problem came where the DE got blocked down so badly by the TE, the CB came up for the end around, and MJD saw a great big huge cutback lane. The safety unable to see that MJD cutback cause he's like 5'5" and simply flowed to where the play was supposed to be, but unfortunately MJD cutback and was going almost full speed when he popped out the other side.


Noone was going to see MJD behind the line no matter who you put back there, but if MJD somehow squirts through the designed hole, and Busing isn't there he's in trouble cause he won't catch on the off guard dive busting through at full speed either.

thunderkyss
09-29-2009, 05:52 PM
He did read his keys, if you watch him flow to the hole that was originally there that Cushing fills, there was just a huge cutback lane cause the DE got crushed and the CB flowed way too far upfield which gave MJD a truck size hole to burn through.

The safety is the last line of defense no doubt, but that is a tough one to completely lay on the safety.

Bullman had a good game this past Sunday, & I'm a big fan of his motor, so I really don't like to criticize him too much. I also think he's a diamond in the rough, probably won't ever be a star, but he earned a spot on the field, & I think he'd earn a spot on any roster in the league.

He totally messed up on that play, but watching him it looks like he was playing as a DT, and not concerned about sealing that end, like an end or SAM would.

Maybe he just didn't know?

Like I said, I'm a fan & I may be giving him a flat out pass. From what I've seen, he's not the kind of guy that makes mistakes, so again, I blame this on the coaches, more than I do the players.

silvrhand
09-29-2009, 06:01 PM
Like I said, I'm a fan & I may be giving him a flat out pass. From what I've seen, he's not the kind of guy that makes mistakes, so again, I blame this on the coaches, more than I do the players.

I didn't get a chance to watch him too much from where I sit at the games it's quite hard unless they are down by me (section 136). I do know that he is new, so ultimately he'll hopefully get better.

As for the coaching comment, you have have the best swim coach in the world, but if you are trying to teach a rock how to swim, there is going to be a lot of sinking going on no matter what you do.

The same goes for NFL players.

ObsiWan
09-29-2009, 07:05 PM
Bullman had a good game this past Sunday, & I'm a big fan of his motor, so I really don't like to criticize him too much. I also think he's a diamond in the rough, probably won't ever be a star, but he earned a spot on the field, & I think he'd earn a spot on any roster in the league.

He totally messed up on that play, but watching him it looks like he was playing as a DT, and not concerned about sealing that end, like an end or SAM would.

Maybe he just didn't know?

Like I said, I'm a fan & I may be giving him a flat out pass. From what I've seen, he's not the kind of guy that makes mistakes, so again, I blame this on the coaches, more than I do the players.

Go back to the Titans game and look who's in the hole with an opportunity to take down CJ before he goes on the 90+ yd scamper. It's Bulman whiffing on the tackle.

Like most of our defense, they have their good moments and their bad ones. ...and their bad ones can be reeeeally embarrassing.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 07:13 PM
Good post DL. Bennett was just way out of position period.

If you're gonna trust still pictures, look at # 3 and #4

In fact, review the whole sequence from start to finish.
Who's gonna be responsible for the reverse?

The other thing is, still pictures don't tell the whole story.

Without the receiver coming over, Bennett was ready to clamp in on MJD.

Put the main problem where it is instead of trying to side track from it.
If you're the coach, you're not gonna solve the D-problem by doing that! PERIOD.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 07:55 PM
And whoever put up these freeze frames is not doing a very good service to the game.

Vertically, the first frame should show the TE with his head around the 38 yd line and his butt around the 37 yd line.

Horizontally, he lined up somewhere close to the middle between the numbers and the hash marks.

Then you can put the X-marks as to where Bulman was and the TE was in each frame.
And you tell me what the heck is going on!

leebigeztx
09-30-2009, 01:16 AM
MJD was on nfl radio and said the texans were doing a good job filling the holes, so they did a sight adjust at the line. All the slow developing run plays were getting stopped so they decided on more quickhitters. Since they had some success with the reverses earlier, the texans had to honor it. He know they cut back would be in between the rt and te. If bennett came up to spill it inside and bulman got turned inside,busing was suppose to fill tha void in that gap,but he was caught stepping inside.

Goldensilence
09-30-2009, 01:45 AM
I didn't get a chance to watch him too much from where I sit at the games it's quite hard unless they are down by me (section 136). I do know that he is new, so ultimately he'll hopefully get better.

As for the coaching comment, you have have the best swim coach in the world, but if you are trying to teach a rock how to swim, there is going to be a lot of sinking going on no matter what you do.

The same goes for NFL players.

Why am I getting Deja Vu all over again? Same argument for keeping Richard Smith around. Something to the effect of:

"Man even (Insert successful defensive coach) could come with these guys and still not have a decent defense."

Sorry guys. Guess what? This is Frank Bush's defense. If he felt like there were glaring problems in the defense like half this board is aware of, the staff failed to address it. Instead they hoped that some slapping some band aid players together would cut it.

These are the players Bush and Kubiak, somehow, felt comfortable rolling into the season with. In my opinion, the problem with this defense is the mix of players. Too many lunch pail guys and too much hope for guys they drafted with potential.

JB
09-30-2009, 08:39 AM
Why am I getting Deja Vu all over again? Same argument for keeping Richard Smith around. Something to the effect of:

"Man even (Insert successful defensive coach) could come with these guys and still not have a decent defense."

Sorry guys. Guess what? This is Frank Bush's defense. If he felt like there were glaring problems in the defense like half this board is aware of, the staff failed to address it. Instead they hoped that some slapping some band aid players together would cut it.

These are the players Bush and Kubiak, somehow, felt comfortable rolling into the season with. In my opinion, the problem with this defense is the mix of players. Not Enough lunch pail guys and too much hope for guys they drafted with little potential.

Fixed it for ya!

HOU-TEX
09-30-2009, 10:01 AM
How do we know Bennett's assignment wasn't to contain the outside? I might be off base here, but to me, it looks like Bennett did his job. It looks like Bulman was responsible for the first layer and Busing was to fill in. Who the hell knows what Busing read to pull him that far inside.

Bennett has been pathetic so far this season, but I think he might've been in the right spot. Now, he could've given better effort after MJD made his move up field.

Mr teX
09-30-2009, 10:19 AM
If you're gonna trust still pictures, look at # 3 and #4

In fact, review the whole sequence from start to finish.
Who's gonna be responsible for the reverse?

The other thing is, still pictures don't tell the whole story.

Without the receiver coming over, Bennett was ready to clamp in on MJD.

Put the main problem where it is instead of trying to side track from it.
If you're the coach, you're not gonna solve the D-problem by doing that! PERIOD.


I'm not saying Busing & Bulman are not at fault here....but Bennett didn't help himself out either.

Look at how far back from the line of scrimmage that reverse fake happens. Even if they would've given the ball to the WR on the reverse, he still would've had time to chase the WR down backside for a minimal gain. The reason for this is because the WR was coming to the short side of the field & Bennett would've been able to use the sideline as an extra defender. Yeah, they'd had success with it earlier, but if i'm not mistaken, they ran those other reverses to the wide side; considerably much more space to work in & more of an opportunity to turn the corner.

Because the reverse fake comes after the ball is handed to MJD If bennett just comes right at the LOS, checks for MJD on the run 1st (b/c it's clear through the pictures he didn't, he jumped the reverse) he would've been in better position to attack the reverse & possibly make a little bit better play against MJD instead of just running up to the LOS & guessing.

silvrhand
09-30-2009, 11:42 AM
I'm not saying Busing & Bulman are not at fault here....but Bennett didn't help himself out either.

Look at how far back from the line of scrimmage that reverse fake happens. Even if they would've given the ball to the WR on the reverse, he still would've had time to chase the WR down backside for a minimal gain. The reason for this is because the WR was coming to the short side of the field & Bennett would've been able to use the sideline as an extra defender. Yeah, they'd had success with it earlier, but if i'm not mistaken, they ran those other reverses to the wide side; considerably much more space to work in & more of an opportunity to turn the corner.

Because the reverse fake comes after the ball is handed to MJD If bennett just comes right at the LOS, checks for MJD on the run 1st (b/c it's clear through the pictures he didn't, he jumped the reverse) he would've been in better position to attack the reverse & possibly make a little bit better play against MJD instead of just running up to the LOS & guessing.

100% right, he could have slid down when the TE blocked down, check the inside handoff and made the tackle or at least closed the gap. If the reverse comes he doesn't have to attack it directly, all he has to do is run flat towards the sideline which he has the angle on and string it out or force him to stop, which by then the inside pursuit is coming hard.

The DE was ultimately the issue but the two other players, Busing and Bennet didn't make a good play either. Busing had 0 chance of actually getting to see MJD, and he just read his keys and flowed towards what looked like the original gap for the play.

Cushing filled the original gap, and tried to get MJD from behind, but wasn't quick enough.

The cutback by MJD was a very good cutback, and he's quick so unfortunately we keep making mistakes against very good RB's. You have to admit we have faced 3 of the top RB's in the league right now in our opening 3 games.

Mr teX
09-30-2009, 12:07 PM
100% right, he could have slid down when the TE blocked down, check the inside handoff and made the tackle or at least closed the gap. If the reverse comes he doesn't have to attack it directly, all he has to do is run flat towards the sideline which he has the angle on and string it out or force him to stop, which by then the inside pursuit is coming hard.

The DE was ultimately the issue but the two other players, Busing and Bennet didn't make a good play either. Busing had 0 chance of actually getting to see MJD, and he just read his keys and flowed towards what looked like the original gap for the play.

Cushing filled the original gap, and tried to get MJD from behind, but wasn't quick enough.

The cutback by MJD was a very good cutback, and he's quick so unfortunately we keep making mistakes against very good RB's. You have to admit we have faced 3 of the top RB's in the league right now in our opening 3 games.

I'll give you 2.....jones isn't really that great although leon washington is really elusive and helped in drawing our attention away from jones. Can you imagine what sproles would've done to us if SD had played us any of these weeks? :eek:

76Texan
09-30-2009, 12:28 PM
100% right, he could have slid down when the TE blocked down, check the inside handoff and made the tackle or at least closed the gap. If the reverse comes he doesn't have to attack it directly, all he has to do is run flat towards the sideline which he has the angle on and string it out or force him to stop, which by then the inside pursuit is coming hard.

The DE was ultimately the issue but the two other players, Busing and Bennet didn't make a good play either. Busing had 0 chance of actually getting to see MJD, and he just read his keys and flowed towards what looked like the original gap for the play.

Cushing filled the original gap, and tried to get MJD from behind, but wasn't quick enough.

The cutback by MJD was a very good cutback, and he's quick so unfortunately we keep making mistakes against very good RB's. You have to admit we have faced 3 of the top RB's in the league right now in our opening 3 games.
Alright, so Kubiak called this one on Busing.

That led me to believe the D call was a gap 8 attacking play.
We had 4 D-linemen, 2 LBs and the SS to attack 8 gaps
(Weakside C, B, A; strong side A,B,C,D, and the alley).

Diles (the third LB) took on the slot receiver and was not involved in this play.

Bulman was weak in his C gap assignment.
Bennett did his part controlling the alley, since the receiver was coming over to that side.

Busing was supposed to come up and fill the D gap (outside the TE), but he never did.

Even if we were playing cover 3, Busing should read the WR that ran the reverse route and keep containment on that side.

Either way, it's only logical for Bennett to assume that Busing would follow his assignment; therefore Bennett attacked the alley.
You can only have one defense at a time; it was go-and-read, attacking mode and not the old "read-and-react" stuff.

Mr teX
09-30-2009, 12:52 PM
Alright, so Kubiak called this one on Busing.

That led me to believe the D call was a gap 8 attacking play.
We had 4 D-linemen, 2 LBs and the SS to attack 8 gaps
(Weakside C, B, A; strong side A,B,C,D, and the alley).

Diles (the third LB) took on the slot receiver and was not involved in this play.

Bulman was weak in his C gap assignment.
Bennett did his part controlling the alley, since the receiver was coming over to that side.

Busing was supposed to come up and fill the D gap (outside the TE), but he never did.

Even if we were playing cover 3, Busing should read the WR that ran the reverse route and keep containment on that side.

Either way, it's only logical for Bennett to assume that Busing would follow his assignment; therefore Bennett attacked the alley.
You can only have one defense at a time; it was go-and-read, attacking mode and not the old "read-and-react" stuff.


doesn't really matter what D was called at the time. The point is bennett jumped the reverse without checking the inside handoff 1st & consequently took himself out of position that would've put him in the best place to make a play on both the actual run & the reverse; Like i said, that much is evident in the pictures.

Contrary to popular belief, you can "read and react" and attack at the same time. In this play in particular, he obviously "read" run correctly. He also wasn't really holding any WR b/c he had Busing over the top if the TE released. He just overpursued and helped Bulman & Busing open up a huge lane. Yeah, if they'd given the ball to the WR he makes a huge negative play assuming he makes the tackle. but i think all Silvr and i are saying is that the play on the reverse could've still been made (allbeit maybe not for negative yards) even if he doesn't take a b-line straight to the WR & pays more attention to who actually has the ball instead of guessing.

silvrhand
09-30-2009, 01:23 PM
Alright, so Kubiak called this one on Busing.

That led me to believe the D call was a gap 8 attacking play.
We had 4 D-linemen, 2 LBs and the SS to attack 8 gaps
(Weakside C, B, A; strong side A,B,C,D, and the alley).

Diles (the third LB) took on the slot receiver and was not involved in this play.

Bulman was weak in his C gap assignment.
Bennett did his part controlling the alley, since the receiver was coming over to that side.

Busing was supposed to come up and fill the D gap (outside the TE), but he never did.



Hmm, my point is that why would you have a gap assignment and play 10 yards off the ball, there is no way you'll hit that gap if it's open before the running back who is 5 yards deep.

That just doesn't seem logical. To me it would seem the inside Gap of the TE should have belonged to Bulman, who got pushed about 3 yards inside, losing his gap control. If bulman is there there really isn't no cutback lane for MJD to hit?

Maybe I'm just missing the fact we are expecting a safety to play 10 yards deep and still have gap assignments on the front line? Honestly can we be succcesful like this?

Mr teX
09-30-2009, 01:35 PM
Hmm, my point is that why would you have a gap assignment and play 10 yards off the ball, there is no way you'll hit that gap if it's open before the running back who is 5 yards deep.

That just doesn't seem logical. To me it would seem the inside Gap of the TE should have belonged to Bulman, who got pushed about 3 yards inside, losing his gap control. If bulman is there there really isn't no cutback lane for MJD to hit?

Maybe I'm just missing the fact we are expecting a safety to play 10 yards deep and still have gap assignments on the front line? Honestly can we be succcesful like this?

That's not uncommon, in fact i'll go so far as to say that it's expected these days in the NFL. If everyone takes care of their assignments & is where they are supposed to be, plays like this either get stretched or take so much time developing that, the safety has enough time to get down there.........that is, a starting caliber, ball hawk safety; something we've never had!

DerekLee1
09-30-2009, 01:37 PM
How do we know Bennett's assignment wasn't to contain the outside? I might be off base here, but to me, it looks like Bennett did his job. It looks like Bulman was responsible for the first layer and Busing was to fill in. Who the hell knows what Busing read to pull him that far inside.

Bennett has been pathetic so far this season, but I think he might've been in the right spot. Now, he could've given better effort after MJD made his move up field.

Bennett sold himself on the reverse, hoping he guessed right and could drop them for a loss, and it put himself out of position to make a play. If he just stands pat and waits half a second for it to develop, he's got MJD for no gain. Likewise, if Busing watches the play, he should know it's moving to his left and get to the outside. MJD gets a one-yard gain.

DerekLee1
09-30-2009, 01:42 PM
doesn't really matter what D was called at the time. The point is bennett jumped the reverse without checking the inside handoff 1st & consequently took himself out of position that would've put him in the best place to make a play on both the actual run & the reverse; Like i said, that much is evident in the pictures.

Contrary to popular belief, you can "read and react" and attack at the same time. In this play in particular, he obviously "read" run correctly. He also wasn't really holding any WR b/c he had Busing over the top if the TE released. He just overpursued and helped Bulman & Busing open up a huge lane. Yeah, if they'd given the ball to the WR he makes a huge negative play assuming he makes the tackle. but i think all Silvr and i are saying is that the play on the reverse could've still been made (allbeit maybe not for negative yards) even if he doesn't take a b-line straight to the WR & pays more attention to who actually has the ball instead of guessing.

lol: Oops. Your post hadn't shown up before my previous post. We basically said the same thing. So - yeah - what you said.

silvrhand
09-30-2009, 03:10 PM
That's not uncommon, in fact i'll go so far as to say that it's expected these days in the NFL. If everyone takes care of their assignments & is where they are supposed to be, plays like this either get stretched or take so much time developing that, the safety has enough time to get down there.........that is, a starting caliber, ball hawk safety; something we've never had!

There aren't too many of those around in the league, namely Troy Palamalu's hanging around.

I agree that definitely need a safety upgrade, but like the TN game the two big runs blaming it on the safety is a bit much when there is a linement downfield blocking him as in the TN game. This play was very much the same, backside huge gap left open, and people putting themselves out of position.

IMHO, we have a bit high expectations IMHO for what a safety can can't do when the front 7 doesn't do their job.

76Texan
09-30-2009, 03:36 PM
doesn't really matter what D was called at the time. The point is bennett jumped the reverse without checking the inside handoff 1st & consequently took himself out of position that would've put him in the best place to make a play on both the actual run & the reverse; Like i said, that much is evident in the pictures.

Contrary to popular belief, you can "read and react" and attack at the same time. In this play in particular, he obviously "read" run correctly. He also wasn't really holding any WR b/c he had Busing over the top if the TE released. He just overpursued and helped Bulman & Busing open up a huge lane. Yeah, if they'd given the ball to the WR he makes a huge negative play assuming he makes the tackle. but i think all Silvr and i are saying is that the play on the reverse could've still been made (allbeit maybe not for negative yards) even if he doesn't take a b-line straight to the WR & pays more attention to who actually has the ball instead of guessing.

Don't trust a still picture too much.
I said when Bennett came up, he did check on MJD, but then he saw the receiver and continued on to "attack" the reverse route.

And as Kubiak did not put this one on Bennett, I can only think that his assignment was to jump on the receiver on such a route; ie., his assignment now has changed.

It does not make sense that he paused (very briefly) to take a peek on MJD and did not stay to be sure that MJD did not have the ball.

I understand that in a normal situation, that would be the case.
But if we are talking about an attacking defense, everybody has to stay disciplined.

Just like when you defend the triple option; if a guy was to take on the pitch man, he is to stay with the pitch man no matter what!

DerekLee1
09-30-2009, 03:45 PM
Don't trust a still picture too much.
I said when Bennett came up, he did check on MJD, but then he saw the receiver and continued on to "attack" the reverse route.

No. I've watched this replay dozens of times. Bennett jumps 3 yards into the backfield and stares at Garrard, waiting for him to hand off and never makes a play toward the ball. By the time he reacts, MJD is 2 yards past him, and Busing is still trying to recover from jumping toward the middle.

It's a lot like Garrard's TD run where Cushing kept floating back into the end zone waiting for Garrard to throw it and was three yards deep before he could react to Garrard running - ERRRRR...walking - into the end zone.

Attacking, my arse. They're still reading and reacting.

Vinny
09-30-2009, 03:47 PM
No. I've watched this replay dozens of times. Bennett jumps 3 yards into the backfield and stares at Garrard, waiting for him to hand off and never makes a play toward the ball. By the time he reacts, MJD is 2 yards past him, and Busing is still trying to recover from jumping toward the middle.

It's a lot like Garrard's TD run where Cushing kept floating back into the end zone waiting for Garrard to throw it and was three yards deep before he could react to Garrard running - ERRRRR...walking - into the end zone.

Attacking, my arse. They're still reading and reacting.
actually he takes a wide step as he sees the WR coming around the bend and he isn't supposed to let the ball get outside of him. I think the OLB and the DE should have been there myself.

Mr teX
09-30-2009, 03:48 PM
There aren't too many of those around in the league, namely Troy Palamalu's hanging around.

I agree that definitely need a safety upgrade, but like the TN game the two big runs blaming it on the safety is a bit much when there is a linement downfield blocking him as in the TN game. This play was very much the same, backside huge gap left open, and people putting themselves out of position.

IMHO, we have a bit high expectations IMHO for what a safety can can't do when the front 7 doesn't do their job.

I agree about the front 7. But i disagree about finding a starting caliber, ball hawk safety as not that many around. Sure, there's these guys who make plays, in addition to being solid in run support.....

Reed
Polamalu
Wilson


but here are the 2nd tier guys:
Merriweather
Landry
Whitner
Dawkins
Rhodes
Sanders - if he could stay healthy
Griffin
Phillips
Lewis

There's a mix of FS & SS in this group but nevertheless all the 2nd tier guys are SIGNIFICANTLY better than anything we've ever had. Good starting caliber safeties aren't that hard to come by imo if you commit to finding a solution at that position, we just haven't committed like we have to the D-line.

Cjeremy635
09-30-2009, 04:00 PM
No. I've watched this replay dozens of times. Bennett jumps 3 yards into the backfield and stares at Garrard, waiting for him to hand off and never makes a play toward the ball. By the time he reacts, MJD is 2 yards past him, and Busing is still trying to recover from jumping toward the middle.

It's a lot like Garrard's TD run where Cushing kept floating back into the end zone waiting for Garrard to throw it and was three yards deep before he could react to Garrard running - ERRRRR...walking - into the end zone.

Attacking, my arse. They're still reading and reacting.

What was he supposed to do there? There wasn't anyone behind him covering up the receivers. If he would have persued him, he would have just thrown it. It was a damned if you do, damned if you don't situation. He should have had help. Where was the DE on that play to keep containment?

76Texan
09-30-2009, 04:00 PM
No. I've watched this replay dozens of times. Bennett jumps 3 yards into the backfield and stares at Garrard, waiting for him to hand off and never makes a play toward the ball. By the time he reacts, MJD is 2 yards past him, and Busing is still trying to recover from jumping toward the middle.

It's a lot like Garrard's TD run where Cushing kept floating back into the end zone waiting for Garrard to throw it and was three yards deep before he could react to Garrard running - ERRRRR...walking - into the end zone.

Attacking, my arse. They're still reading and reacting.

I would expect some courtesy in language if we are to discuss football; otherwise, please don't bother with my post.

Bennett started inside; he did not jump immediately after the wide receiver.
I don't know if you have the replay on HD and a big screen TV or not.
If you only have an NFL.com video, you don't have the frontal view.
Actually it's a view from behind our defense.

As the ball was snapped, Bennett pivot on his right foot, took a first step putting his left foot ahead of his right foot (that can only mean that he's going inside, not forward, not to the outside).

His second step with the right foot was also to the inside.

He was going after MJD at the beginning!

Then he saw the receiver, so he took a step with his left foot to the left.
Then he went into a shuffle to get ready for the receiver.

DerekLee1
09-30-2009, 04:07 PM
I agree about the front 7. But i disagree about finding a starting caliber, ball hawk safety as not that many around. Sure, there's these guys who make plays, in addition to being solid in run support.....

Reed
Polamalu
Wilson


but here are the 2nd tier guys:
Merriweather
Landry
Whitner
Dawkins
Rhodes
Sanders - if he could stay healthy
Griffin
Phillips
Lewis

There's a mix of FS & SS in this group but nevertheless all the 2nd tier guys are SIGNIFICANTLY better than anything we've ever had. Good starting caliber safeties aren't that hard to come by imo if you commit to finding a solution at that position, we just haven't committed like we have to the D-line.

There are 32 teams. You just named 12, and only 3 were "elite". That leaves 20 other teams with "3rd tier" safeties. You have 32 teams vying for 10-12 guys. I think Smith has probably done everything he could up to this point. We absolutely MUST look to the draft for safety help. It ain't coming in free agency.

76Texan
09-30-2009, 04:11 PM
When I put a marker on the positions of the players.

Where Bennett was at his furthermost outside and deep position into the backfield, he would be standing right behind the TE (where he originally lined up).

His right hand could be touching the TE's behind!

76Texan
09-30-2009, 04:21 PM
There are quite a few different versions of the game.
This particular one with the backend view has Steve Beuerlein as the commentator.

His call was simple and straight to the point: "overpursue by the safety"!

DerekLee1
09-30-2009, 04:32 PM
There are quite a few different versions of the game.
This particular one with the backend view has Steve Beuerlein as the commentator.

His call was simple and straight to the point: "overpursue by the safety"!

Bottom line, he's reading and reacting. And he's too slow for that. If he was attacking, he should have been going after the ball and he never would have been caught outside like that.

Mr teX
09-30-2009, 07:32 PM
There are 32 teams. You just named 12, and only 3 were "elite". That leaves 20 other teams with "3rd tier" safeties. You have 32 teams vying for 10-12 guys. I think Smith has probably done everything he could up to this point. We absolutely MUST look to the draft for safety help. It ain't coming in free agency.


Those were just the ones i could name off the top of my head..there are a few more & I didn't say they had to be "elite". Hell even if you go into 3rd tier we're still below that. i agree however that we've got to get this player in the draft.

leebigeztx
09-30-2009, 07:41 PM
I'm not a huge pollard fan because he can get exposed in coverage, but he's very good in angles and key and diagnos in the run game. The average vet safety fills that hole and stops that play. Busing and barber is killing the backend. On that passs play to sims walker when bennett was squatting,where was busing? Watching a teaser route while the cb released the wr in a flag route in which he was late.

silvrhand
09-30-2009, 10:39 PM
I'm not a huge pollard fan because he can get exposed in coverage, but he's very good in angles and key and diagnos in the run game. The average vet safety fills that hole and stops that play. Busing and barber is killing the backend. On that passs play to sims walker when bennett was squatting,where was busing? Watching a teaser route while the cb released the wr in a flag route in which he was late.

I remember that play as well it looked really odd cause the CB seemed to just drop the receivers route and he was only like on a 10 yard out route, which ended up like a 20 yard play for a first down of course..

there was noone else in the CB zone, I can't find the play cause I wanted to take a second look at it. Anyone have a link to it.

silvrhand
09-30-2009, 10:43 PM
There are quite a few different versions of the game.
This particular one with the backend view has Steve Beuerlein as the commentator.

His call was simple and straight to the point: "overpursue by the safety"!

I totally agree that the safety overpursued cause he was following his keys and MJD went against the grain, which he should be looking in the backfield at this point once he gets his initial read to look for the back.

Like I said I don't think many safeties are going to make this play cause they aren't going to see MJD in the backfield to see that he's made the cut, they'll follow the reads which from the film is a left HB off tackle zone blocking play, so he flowed right like expected and all of a sudden MJD see's a great cutback and then he's shot out of a cannon.

Do you really think 90% of the safeties in the NFL are going to make this play? I don't.

76Texan
10-01-2009, 01:03 AM
I totally agree that the safety overpursued cause he was following his keys and MJD went against the grain, which he should be looking in the backfield at this point once he gets his initial read to look for the back.

Like I said I don't think many safeties are going to make this play cause they aren't going to see MJD in the backfield to see that he's made the cut, they'll follow the reads which from the film is a left HB off tackle zone blocking play, so he flowed right like expected and all of a sudden MJD see's a great cutback and then he's shot out of a cannon.

Do you really think 90% of the safeties in the NFL are going to make this play? I don't.

Seems like leebigeztx agree with me, Kubiak, and Beuerlein.
I expect the safety to fill that gap.

He can see the lead blocker clearly as per the run you described.
But there would be Wilson and Dunta to take on the FB.
Either Demeco and/or Diles (especially Diles who was on the WR) may be able to shed off their block.

The other hole in the middle was filled by Cushing, unblocked.
No running back would go there.

Furthermore, the receiver in motion did not stay to help block on the weak side. This, the safety can also see clearly.
The only logical read for Busing is a mis-direction play by the opponent or a reverse.

76Texan
10-01-2009, 01:06 AM
Bottom line, he's reading and reacting. And he's too slow for that. If he was attacking, he should have been going after the ball and he never would have been caught outside like that.

Let's try to look at it from a different perspective.
Take Bulman and Deljuan into considerations.
Where do you think they should be along the line if they had been able to fight their men to a stand-still?

leebigeztx
10-01-2009, 03:26 AM
I totally agree that the safety overpursued cause he was following his keys and MJD went against the grain, which he should be looking in the backfield at this point once he gets his initial read to look for the back.

Like I said I don't think many safeties are going to make this play cause they aren't going to see MJD in the backfield to see that he's made the cut, they'll follow the reads which from the film is a left HB off tackle zone blocking play, so he flowed right like expected and all of a sudden MJD see's a great cutback and then he's shot out of a cannon.

Do you really think 90% of the safeties in the NFL are going to make this play? I don't.

I don't know how this is coming off, but you don't read keys from the safety spot and give up outside leverage on a hole you're suppose to fill. Because he's a young guy seeing all this action develop in front of him, he's not picking up his keys. His keys shouldve have told him that i'm suppose to be in the gap between the te and tackle because the middle was clooged up and every gap was closed.

silvrhand
10-01-2009, 10:40 AM
Seems like leebigeztx agree with me, Kubiak, and Beuerlein.
I expect the safety to fill that gap.

He can see the lead blocker clearly as per the run you described.
But there would be Wilson and Dunta to take on the FB.
Either Demeco and/or Diles (especially Diles who was on the WR) may be able to shed off their block.

The other hole in the middle was filled by Cushing, unblocked.
No running back would go there.

Furthermore, the receiver in motion did not stay to help block on the weak side. This, the safety can also see clearly.
The only logical read for Busing is a mis-direction play by the opponent or a reverse.

I can't find the video online anymore it's been taken off do you have a link to it? I want to rewatch the run, before answering some of your points.

Redtexan#34
10-01-2009, 12:39 PM
Using my Direct TV HD DVR I am in the process of watching the Jags game again but only the Texans defense. Jacksonville was moving there WR in motion and in reverses the whole game. The second offensive play of the game for the jags was almost exactly like the one MJD broke except they were in single back formation. Garrard held the ball faked it to MJD and the WR and ran for a 20+yard gain. At about the 8:30 min mark of the 2nd qrt They run the play again except the WR stops from coming in motion and lines up by the RT and Garrard hands off to MJD. Bennet comes in and slows up MJD before he is tackled by Diles. In the same play play Busing is in the middle covering the inside. On the 61 yrd run its the same play ecept they are in a I-formation. Now i watched it in slow motion several times and it is laughable how out of position Bennett and Busing are because of bad discipline. On the play Bennett is not watching the ball he is anticipating where the WR is going to go. He starts to move inside and at the same time Garrard is handing the ball off to MJD, Bennett is staring at the WR. Its like he doesnt even see the ball he then immediately breaks off to the left in route to the WR. If Bennett would have just headed for the ball this play could have easily been a loss. Busing on the other hand appears to be the main culprit because he is the last line of defense he was so inside he was almost directly in line with the fullback. if he would have ran into the correct gap he could have forced MJD inside where the rest of the defense was waiting for him. He didnt need to go inside Wilson was there. These players were doing a lot of guessing and the jags capitalized on it. After just watching the first half I can see how the coaches are saying that every player has to be on the same page. It appears to me that this defensive scheme aims to create layers of defense. But if one players is out of position the whole play is busted up. It is clear to me that the deficiency are to be blamed on the talent just as much as the coaching. Oh and Busing was also the guy who had busted coverage on Wilford the TE and did a piss poor job of tackling him. If he had not ran out of bounds it would have been a TD. Oh yeah it was a TD on the next play when Cushing made a rookie mistake and let Garrad score.

76Texan
10-01-2009, 02:05 PM
I can't find the video online anymore it's been taken off do you have a link to it? I want to rewatch the run, before answering some of your points.

It's still there, but if you don't have a DVR copy or a torrent file, it's not quite easy to see.

Let me go back to the original position of the players, especially the linemen.
That will give a different perspective.

The ball was on the hash marks of the 49yd line.
The Center's feet were on the 48yd line.
He was between the hash marks, but very slightly to the outside;
his behind protrudind back close to the 47yd line.

On his right were the RG, the RT, and the TE, naturally.

Now go back to the still frames on page 3 of this thread at look at the third picture.
MJD ran up to the line and would have bumped into the Center b.u.t.t (had he stayed still) before he made the cut to the outside.

Where there were 3 Jags on the outside of the Center now is a huge hole.
Deljuan was pushed back and cleared to the inside by the double team of the RT & RG.
That wasn't so strange.
But Bulman suffered the same fate (only worse) at the hand of the TE.
He ended up 3 yards behind the LOS, just inside the hash marks.

If both of these guys can do a better job; especially Bulman, just holding off the TE at the LOS; MJD would have no room to run.
If he goes to the inside, he would be blasted by Cushing.
If he cuts outside, it would be right ino the waiting arms of Bennett.
I had mentioned that Bennett (at his deepest and most outside position) was right behind the original position of the TE.

Either way, it would have been a loss of yardage.

76Texan
10-01-2009, 02:16 PM
Jacksonville was moving there WR in motion and in reverses the whole game. The second offensive play of the game for the jags was almost exactly like the one MJD broke except they were in single back formation. After just watching the first half I can see how the coaches are saying that every player has to be on the same page. It appears to me that this defensive scheme aims to create layers of defense. But if one players is out of position the whole play is busted up. It is clear to me that the deficiency are to be blamed on the talent just as much as the coaching. Oh and Busing was also the guy who had busted coverage on Wilford the TE and did a piss poor job of tackling him. If he had not ran out of bounds it would have been a TD. Oh yeah it was a TD on the next play when Cushing made a rookie mistake and let Garrad score.The Jags ran this play about a dozen times in the game; guess why?
Because they continued to have success with it, who would have thunk!?!

That and the slant-and-go in the passing game to take advantage of our CBs' happy shuffle dance.

It was one of the worse coaching jobs I've seen; and of course, the excecution was pathetic.
When you have separate instances of mistakes by the players, it's on them.
But when there's widespread problems with execution, it has to be the coaching, PERIOD.
Especially when we see the same mistake by different players game after game (since the pre-season).

leebigeztx
10-01-2009, 02:38 PM
RedTexan- good deal

What happens with young players,especially at safety is the try to do someone else job. In the case of busing, safety is probably the hardest because qbs move you with their eyes and offenses run routes in front of you as bait to throw a route over your head. 3 of the best safeties in football in reed,troy,and sanders didn't even play as rookies,yet we expect a undrafted guy to make a impact? I am not laying all the blame og busing,but safety means last line of defense. Why would the safety come and try to tackle the fullback when mjd is the best player on the team and most dangerous?

76Texan
10-01-2009, 06:46 PM
It's obnoxious to watch us got beat by only two plays the whole game.
The run off the reverse/fake and the slant-and-go route in the passing game.

The scheme up front/the technique in the backend and how the LBs play in the middle simply don't mess together. (without even addressing the personnel groupings they have on certain distance and down situation.)

At best they are disjointed units, at worst they are a bunch of individuals who have no idea what the neigbor do.