PDA

View Full Version : Personnel or coaching? Chicken or the egg?


TheRealJoker
09-27-2009, 10:27 PM
What's the problem with this team? Is it the lack of a DT who can hold the LOS or a SS that can tackle? Or is it poor coaching decisions? Why does Steve Slaton only get 12 carries in a close game when he averages 6 yards a carry. You go into pass mode like the run wasn't going anywhere and let Schaub take unnecessary punishment.

It seems like the lack of a DT/SS personnel wise is holding the defense back. If Kubiak wants to save his job he's gonna have to trade a high draft choice to get an NFL starter to take over one of those positions or else its gonna mean we need to score 30+ points to win a game this year which is a recipe for yet another mediocre season.

Coaching wise we still have inconsistency across the board and head scratching play calls throughout. We had absolutely no answer for Del Rio's misdirection WR reverse/RB handoff/QB keeper plays they ran repeatedly and did I mention we unnecessarily let our QB take too much punishment when we could've ran the ball with success in a close game?

This team is the Jekyll and Hyde of the NFL, that mainly falls on the coaching staff. But they also dont have NFL talent at DT or SS which is why teams can notch 200+ rushing yards on us routinely and that falls at Rick Smith's feet for not supplying us with the proper talent at those positions. You tried to hit on Amobi and thus far have failed but at SS and with the rest of the DTs you rely on either street FAs or late round picks. That tells me we severely undervalue two positions that have proven to be extremely important to winning championships.

This aint late 90s Denver and we dont have an Alex Gibbs equivalent coaching defense. You cant take anyone and put them in at DT or SS and expect them to be studs like you could with RBs back in your heyday Houston Broncos coaches and FO!!!

TexanBacker93
09-27-2009, 10:30 PM
I think it is a combination of both. I know that's the easy way out, but I don't think a coaching change by itself would make the ultimate difference and I don't think replacing a couple of weak links would push us over the top.

TexansFanatic
09-27-2009, 10:34 PM
The answer, of course, is it's both. The problem is both coaching and personnel.

Having said that, I think a really solid defensive coordinator could make something respectable of the talent the Texans already have.

TheRealJoker
09-27-2009, 10:37 PM
The answer, of course, is it's both. The problem is both coaching and personnel.

Having said that, I think a really solid defensive coordinator could make something respectable of the talent the Texans already have.

So you mean if we actually hired a bonafide NFL DC and paid him top dollar we'd see a real defense? That sounds very similar to what a similar style team did in the offseason...they're 3-0

For those who dont get the reference i'm talking about last year's all offense no defense 8-8 team the New Orleans Saints who are now 3-0 and look great.

texanhead08
09-27-2009, 10:39 PM
This defense needs talent. The Texans knew this defense needed a lot and in the draft they draft 2 TE's. I still don't understand that and I never will either.

TexansFanatic
09-27-2009, 10:44 PM
So you mean if we actually hired a bonafide NFL DC and paid him top dollar we'd see a real defense? That sounds very similar to what a similar style team did in the offseason...they're 3-0

For those who dont get the reference i'm talking about last year's all offense no defense 8-8 team the New Orleans Saints who are now 3-0 and look great.

I hear you. I got the reference. And it sort of makes me sick that Gregg Williams was there for the taking and the Texans promoted an assistant from their own crappy defensive staff.

TexanBacker93
09-27-2009, 10:48 PM
I hear you. I got the reference. And it sort of makes me sick that Gregg Williams was there for the taking and the Texans promoted an assistant from their own crappy defensive staff.

Kubiak doesn't seem to be willing to go off his myspace friends list for a coach. I guess Koller would count, but all the others seem to be guys he played with or coached with or coached.

Mr teX
09-27-2009, 10:51 PM
So you mean if we actually hired a bonafide NFL DC and paid him top dollar we'd see a real defense? That sounds very similar to what a similar style team did in the offseason...they're 3-0

For those who dont get the reference i'm talking about last year's all offense no defense 8-8 team the New Orleans Saints who are now 3-0 and look great.

Kinda helps when your offense drops damn near 50 every game. Besides, Greg Williams was Jax's D-coordinator last year & jax on defense was garbage. Having said that, i guess you know what side i fall on. It's personnel, it just has to be. The signs are obvious.

you're expecting run so you call a play that packs the box with 8-10 guys and you still can't stop it....

Guys missing tackles left and right....

Blitzing all kind of ways..........and still not getting good pressure....

Do i even have to mention the musical chairs in the secondary?

guys who would be special teamers elsewhere are getting signifcant time playing with us.

This has been the case through 2 defensive coordinators so far and 1 guy who, league wide is thought to be one of the better defensive minds in the game (Capers) & we still can't get it right. We've drafted horribly on that side of the ball with the exception of a couple of guys and every FA we've brought in hasn't worked out.

LonerATO
09-27-2009, 10:59 PM
So you mean if we actually hired a bonafide NFL DC and paid him top dollar we'd see a real defense? That sounds very similar to what a similar style team did in the offseason...they're 3-0

For those who dont get the reference i'm talking about last year's all offense no defense 8-8 team the New Orleans Saints who are now 3-0 and look great.

Saints D looks great with pretty much Jenkins as their best player in the secondary and the Saints LB's aren't as good as the Texans. The Saints have a good front four.

Runner
09-27-2009, 10:59 PM
This defense needs talent. The Texans knew this defense needed a lot and in the draft they draft 2 TE's. I still don't understand that and I never will either.

Talent and coaching, IMO.

I think the term Smithiak is turning from an "in Kubes we trust" euphemism to a one word sarcastic summary.

Carr Bombed
09-27-2009, 11:00 PM
Kinda helps when your offense drops damn near 50 every game. Besides, Greg Williams was Jax's D-coordinator last year & jax on defense was garbage.

The Saints have the 11th ranked defense (which would've been more than enough here) and they've been making plays all season so far...(they pretty much shut down Buffalo and TO today).....it's not just the high powered offense. Our offense might drop damn near 50 points a game if they got the ball back more often.

Also Gregg Williams gets a pass in Jax. He was only there for 1 season, the team's chemistry was in the dumpster, and since they have a defensive head coach, I question how much of the defense JDR actually let Williams control.

Williams is a PROVEN defensive coach, who has had great defensive success elsewhere....to not even give a guy like that a interview (or interview ANYBODY) was completely stupid by Kubiak and the FO.

LonerATO
09-27-2009, 11:00 PM
This defense needs talent. The Texans knew this defense needed a lot and in the draft they draft 2 TE's. I still don't understand that and I never will either.

I can only assume that the FO expects Daniels to walk and not pay him, so they drafted Casey to take his place. Hill was drafted to block in the RZ since the Texans sucked so bad in the RZ last year in rushing TD's

Goldensilence
09-27-2009, 11:02 PM
Answer. A coaching staff that doesn't know how to get proper personnel.

LonerATO
09-27-2009, 11:05 PM
Answer. A coaching staff that doesn't know how to get proper personnel.

Since Smith was a DB and a DB coach he seems to think that he can find those amazing gems for the secondary in the later rounds.

Marcus
09-27-2009, 11:24 PM
Blaming the problems on defense on the fact that we didn't hire a "a bonafide NFL DC" is not only the easy way out, it is the cheap 'looking for the quick-fix way' out.

I know there is a strong group here that is collectively pissed off that they hired Frank Bush, so I realize that anytime that they lose a game, the same song with the "they didn't hire an experienced DC, so that's why they lost" lyrics will played over and over like a record with a scratch in it.

Yes, it's up to the coaches to get the players ready to play, and it's up to the coaches to select the right players.

But once that is done, it's up to the players to perform. Yes, there is talent on the team. But those players who do have the talent are young, raw, and inexperienced. Missed tackles combined with missed assignments?

Anyone who wants to lay this all on coaching, and not hold players accountable, is of the mindset of "well, you can't fire the players, and coaches are the only ones that can be fired, so let's fire them, so we can all feel better".

That's just the way I see it.

Norg
09-27-2009, 11:29 PM
hmmm

- we are still soft in the middle IMO in the D line Amobi & cody are just not getting it done

- Antinto Smith is SLighty Better then Weaver :P Mario cant do it by himself Casey is still just a rookie and Bullman is up and down

-Our secondary Vets and rookies are not getting it done i can name off the list Mcain Quinn Bushing WIlson Barber BENNENT and even Dunta are all playing ZONE and leaving a cushion and not playing smart football

Our linebackers are FINE IMO ... and thats pretty much sums up our D talnted on paper not getting it done on the field

Mr teX
09-27-2009, 11:30 PM
To put it in another perspective about personnel, we're only considered strong in one area on defense which is at Lb. we absolutely stink as far as talent everywhere else.. 1.5 of our guys on the d-line are considered good & .5 in the secondary. That's pathetic.

TexansSeminole
09-27-2009, 11:35 PM
It's both.

What I keep coming back to is that the coaches had enough time to improve the personnel. Not addressing DT and the two safety spots this past offseason is the latest example. So, even though some of it is personnel it still reflects poorly on the coaches/GM. People may say that the GM is the one that makes all those decisions but I don't see it that way. If your a coach and you need a position or two or three upgraded to be successful you need to make yourself heard.

Carr Bombed
09-27-2009, 11:37 PM
It's also on the coaches to develop talent........something we've done a HORRIBLE job at over the years. Not every team spends 1st rounders every single year on defense. Good defensive teams develop talent......when's the last time you heard of a player that we drafted late who actually turned into something? (we have plenty on the offensive side of the ball)....there's Diles annnnd that's about it. That's the reason why you can't just give the coaches a pass and say "well the talent wasn't very good" yada yada yada.

The correct answer is both, but I'm leaning more towards coaching at the moment. When you're making the same stupid mistakes week after week after week and you just look flat out unprepared........that's coaching.

Norg
09-27-2009, 11:39 PM
and u would think our O would stink since we rarely ad anything to it



Capers era our O sucked and D was average

Kubes era our O is Great and our D right now is Below Average


What cant we have both :(

GNTLEWOLF
09-27-2009, 11:43 PM
If we don't want to blame the coaches and we want to say we have no talent...then that goes back to the coaches as well since they have input into who the GM picks in the draft and what Fa's are pursued as well.

Carr Bombed
09-27-2009, 11:45 PM
and our D right now is Below Average

Sad thing is, I'd take a below average defense over the one we have now :)

TexansFanatic
09-28-2009, 12:24 AM
Sad thing is, I'd take a below average defense over the one we have now :)

True. I'd take a D ranked 20th right now. That's below average. The Texans are MUCH worse than that.

4Texans
09-28-2009, 07:36 AM
Also Gregg Williams gets a pass in Jax. He was only there for 1 season, the team's chemistry was in the dumpster, and since they have a defensive head coach, I question how much of the defense JDR actually let Williams control.



Williams had let it be known that was the reason that he was gone. JDR and Williams couldn't come to an ageement on how to run the defence. It wasn't Williams D, and he wasn't going to run pure JDR's D.

4Texans
09-28-2009, 07:39 AM
I have to believe it's more personnel and Talent. Guys just seem to be way out of position on the big plays. D Rob was quoted on 610 this morning as saying it's not the coaching, it's guy's having mental lapses and not being where they're supposed to be......

OzzO
09-28-2009, 07:45 AM
4Tex - I heard that as well and was gonna mention it. Two things off that - then if the assist. coach isn't up their nether region enough to perfrom on Sundays - that's an issue. Secondly if the coach is doing his part and the players aren't on Sundays - that's an issue.

Kubiak - better figure out which one it is and take approprate action soon. Time to beat "the kids" and make em grow up.

J. Sean Wonton
09-28-2009, 08:04 AM
It seems like we have a lot of guys on our roster defensively that are not starter quality, but they're getting a lot of playing time with us. That's an FO/coaching issue.

Those players seem to make a lot of mistakes. Sure, it's the players responsibility to play well and do what they're told, but when they don't, consistently, it's a coaching issue.

But, it's not all coaching. You have guys like David Gibbs coming in and starting from scratch to teach guys the fundamentals, and they still can't tackle. Okay, that's a player issue, but it's mainly a FO issue that we have this bunch to work with. You can't bench one guy for not being able to tackle or for missing assignments because the guys behind him suck even worse.

It's both, but you can't solve the problem by picking less than stellar DC candidates AND throwing your most worthless draft choices at positions of GLARING need. I feel like it's a GM issue, but in some ways he's really hit home runs. Plus, we tried to blame the GM/coach last time around. Maybe it's the owner! Maybe the city is cursed! Did Babe Ruth ever come to Houston? I give up! :headhurts:

HoustonFrog
09-28-2009, 08:25 AM
Coaches and GMs that come in together form a plan as to what type of players they want and how they should be coached up. Going off of that talent evaluation and signings you have to say it is a fail for the coaching. Obviously the personnel is bad but the repsonsibility of bringing them in and putting them in the scheme is the coach and GM. Also, when you put your career on the line by again hiring a "friend" to coordinate the D then you are making a dumb move.

Hervoyel
09-28-2009, 10:15 AM
Talent or coaching? No, not this time. This time I am absolutely certain that we're looking at a product of our coaching staff. When we were dealing with Ocho Stinko and trying to figure out if the problem was the QB, the surrounding cast, the coaching (Palmer), or the other coaching (Pendry) I had trouble identifying the problem. This time I feel sure it's the coaches.

Where's the problem exactly? It's the defense correct?

What do we have on that side of the ball?

DL: We've got Mario Williams at DE. He's a future HOF DE. How many teams have more than one of those on their entire DL? We have Antoine Smith on the other side. Now he's no Mario Williams but the man started on a Super Bowl team and he was far from the weakest link on that line. Antoine Smith can play football. In the tackles we have a bunch of guy who are at best lunch-pail types and at worst overhyped marshmallows (looking at you Okoye). Nobody on this earth can tell me that a good defensive coach couldn't look at this whole bunch and find two at least average starters in the group. Are we top 10? Hell no. We'd need one more genuinely dominant DT to be that but we're definitely not below average in terms of talent. I'm telling you guys that Greg Williams comes in here with the same players and finds two guys who will do anything he asks. He isn't going to start Amobi because he's making "x" number of dollars or because he was taken 10th overall. He plays the guys who can do the job.

LB: We've got above average talent at LB. DeMeco is, well "DeMeco" again and Cush looks like he's definitely working out. Diles is our lunch-pail guy in this group and he's steady. There's not a DC worth his salt in the NFL who couldn't do something with this bunch to wreak some havoc on opposing offenses.

DB: Problems but not hopeless. Dunta is the best we have until Reeves gets back and when he does they're still playing next to a pair of safeties that have no business starting in the NFL. This is literally the only group on the team that's consistently ignored and it shows. A bunch of day two picks doesn't count. I don't know why the Texans place no value on good safety play but it's going to get a bunch of people fired eventually. If Pollard works out then maybe we'll have a decent overall defensive backfield in run support but we need help at safety.

Given that don't you think somebody getting everything possible out of our DL and LB would be able to find a way to minimize the damage done here? There's not a unit in the NFL that doesn't have a weakness of some sort. Good DC's work with that, swap out completely useless pieces for players who can do what they need done and then run their scheme.

Frank & Co. clearly didn't feel they needed any help in their defensive backfield to do what he wanted to do. They didn't bother to draft one until the 7th round. The free agent they brought in was a special teams guy and plays better (backhanded compliment, he still sucks) than our already on the roster starters.

There wasn't one guy out there that might have been able to help us out? Not one free agent who could have upgraded our safeties? Frank & Gary get what they deserve when this season is over and I imagine that will be the chance to go back to being a position coach somewhere and for Gary an OC on Shannahan's next gig.

chicagotexan2
09-28-2009, 10:17 AM
It looks more and more like we just don't have the talent to be good on D. TO that I add that Rick Smith should be just as much to blame as Kubiak. I don't know if they both fit in one hot seat, but when the music finally stops playing they should both be out of the game.

dickieb
09-28-2009, 10:47 AM
They suffer from what is called blind faith. You hear it all the time when discussing coaches or players - "No, I think we have the right personnel in place we just need to execute better."

Hervoyel
09-28-2009, 10:53 AM
It looks more and more like we just don't have the talent to be good on D. TO that I add that Rick Smith should be just as much to blame as Kubiak. I don't know if they both fit in one hot seat, but when the music finally stops playing they should both be out of the game.

I disagree with that. I think we do have the talent to be good. I'd quantify that with "average to good" but I know damned well we have better talent than 32 out of 32.

We don't need to be top 10. All we need is to be somewhere in the 13-15 range to show enough improvement to make a difference. We have supposedly added to our defense and yet we regress badly.

Vinny
09-28-2009, 11:00 AM
I disagree with that. I think we do have the talent to be good. I'd quantify that with "average to good" but I know damned well we have better talent than 32 out of 32.

We don't need to be top 10. All we need is to be somewhere in the 13-15 range to show enough improvement to make a difference. We have supposedly added to our defense and yet we regress badly.
we have crap DT's and nothing in SS that is 'NFL starter' material and everyone knows that FS is a need position. No proven weak side edge rusher either. That's a lot of holes.

Honoring Earl 34
09-28-2009, 11:17 AM
we have crap DT's and nothing in SS that is 'NFL starter' material and everyone knows that FS is a need position. No proven weak side edge rusher either. That's a lot of holes.

We look like the Colts when Bob Sanders was hurt a couple of years ago .

Hervoyel
09-28-2009, 11:19 AM
we have crap DT's and nothing in SS that is 'NFL starter' material and everyone knows that FS is a need position. No proven weak side edge rusher either. That's a lot of holes.

Where did Deljuan Robinson go? This guy made a difference every time he was put in there last year. What happened to this guy? We spoke a few times about what he seemed to add to our DL so how did the Texans manage to turn him into a big pile of useless in one off-season?

I guess I'm mostly confused by the fact that if we indeed do have as many holes as it appears then why wasn't more of an effort made to actually fill those holes? Year after year we watch the team suffer without any legitimate DT threat and yet they do nothing to get that guy. Okam in the 5th? A 19 year old two years ago with the 10th pick of the draft? Meanwhile every season we see some big old giant DT looking for a team and eventually signing with somebody and helping them.

We take all of our safeties in the later rounds and yet every year the safety positions are a huge problem for us. If these people think that they're "set" at safety then they're nuts. If they know they need help but don't make any effort to go get it then what does that mean?

I can't help but think that any coach who thinks Cody is going to come in and solve his problems or Okoye is going to suddenly get it in his third season is out of touch with reality.

Vinny
09-28-2009, 11:25 AM
we have crap DT's and nothing in SS that is 'NFL starter' material and everyone knows that FS is a need position. No proven weak side edge rusher either. That's a lot of holes.

Where did Deljuan Robinson go? This guy made a difference every time he was put in there last year. What happened to this guy? We spoke a few times about what he seemed to add to our DL so how did the Texans manage to turn him into a big pile of useless in one off-season?

I guess I'm mostly confused by the fact that if we indeed do have as many holes as it appears then why wasn't more of an effort made to actually fill those holes? Year after year we watch the team suffer without any legitimate DT threat and yet they do nothing to get that guy. Okam in the 5th? A 19 year old two years ago with the 10th pick of the draft? Meanwhile every season we see some big old giant DT looking for a team and eventually signing with somebody and helping them.

We take all of our safeties in the later rounds and yet every year the safety positions are a huge problem for us. If these people think that they're "set" at safety then they're nuts. If they know they need help but don't make any effort to go get it then what does that mean?

I can't help but think that any coach who thinks Cody is going to come in and solve his problems or Okoye is going to suddenly get it in his third season is out of touch with reality.
Ok0ye and C0dy couldn't start anywhere in the NFL outside of here, hell, the Lions didn't want C0dy back. Robinson is a good back up but he looks too inconsistent. 0kam gets pushed around like Ok0ye and that's a friggin mystery. The team looked at us with a straight face and thought that Brandon Harrison was going to be our SS this year...lol, yeah right. Hell, even Diles is 'plan c" at the WLB. It was a showdown between Cato June and Adibi. Looks like both lost. Time for plan "C". Anthony Weaver-Smith is getting paid like Antonio Smith-Weaver, but without the tremendous backpedal. I want know how Bobby Grier keeps his job? He's the one Director of "Pro Scouting" that has stuck from Casserly to Smith and he consistently pulls in gems like Chucky Clemons, Keith Mitchell, Tod Wade, Anthony Weaver, RoBaire Smith and Stacey Mack year after year after year. Why is this man still employed?

TheRealJoker
09-28-2009, 03:14 PM
I think it would've helped our team to grab a vet safety like Dawkins (who 3-0 Denver picked up) that could at least be a bandaid if the Texans are content to draft late round DBs or pick them off on the street and throw them into the starting lineup. Hell, the DBs on the roster just may learn something from a veteran pro bowler who was the leader on one of the best defenses in the last decade...

But no, we resign Wilson who is a bandaid with less pro bowls and leadership skills :(

DerekLee1
09-28-2009, 03:32 PM
Can we coax Jerry Glanville back to the NFL? Or lure Buddy Ryan out of retirement?

DerekLee1
09-28-2009, 03:49 PM
The biggest problem is in the secondary. Dunta Robinson is a 2nd corner on any other decent team. Reeves would be the nickel. Our safeties would be special teams guys. We have no legitimate safety, no legitimate corners. Our d-line is actually getting pressure on the quarterbacks, but the secondary is allowing the qb's to make plays and complete passes on 3rd and long. The d-line is also stuffing MOST runs. But on the occasions where they're able to double-or triple-team one of our tackles and create a hole, the secondary is unable to stop the runner. Hence the long runs in each of the first three games.

How do you fix this, or at least bandage it for now? With schemes that blitz and put constant pressure and fear into the quarterback. Like Richard Smith before him, Frank Bush rarely calls all-out blitz packages and relies on his front four. Regardless of what a lot of you say here, our defensive line IS talented. But everyone knows - double Mario and leave a RB behind to find the guy that gets through, and you have all day to pass. There's no 5th guy rushing in, so they have all four of our guys tied up, and the qb just waits for the inevitable breakdown in our crappy secondary to nail a receiver.

WHY NO BLITZING? I'd be happy to give up the occasional "big play" to see a qb harassed all day long. Hell, we give that up anyway in the running game. At least running a linebacker or safety through some gaps will also stuff a run if they hand off.

These schemes suck. Too bad Ray Rhodes' health is poor. I wouldn't mind that guy taking over the defense either.

Mr. White
09-28-2009, 03:58 PM
It's year 5. It's safe to assume that the coach has his guys by now.

If he can't win with them, then that's his problem.

DerekLee1
09-28-2009, 04:26 PM
Anyone else notice the "5 yard cushion" seems to have returned?

ATXtexanfan
09-28-2009, 04:37 PM
I'm convinced its coaching. Some teams mold their draft picks into the kinds of players they need to be. Fred bennett was solid is rookie year and has regressed. Cushing looks solid for now, does he fall off next year? Coaches have to put what they have in a position to succeed. If the guy fails you hold him accountable and bring in the next guy. We need talent at some positions but what is going on here is inexcusable. The worst D in the league is a coaching issue.

TexansFanatic
09-28-2009, 05:46 PM
It's year 5. It's safe to assume that the coach has his guys by now.

If he can't win with them, then that's his problem.

It's year 4 for Kubiak.

Dom had 4 and was out.

Looks like a similar fate awaits Kubiak.

Please Bob, hire the right guy next time.

Silver Oak
09-28-2009, 06:06 PM
I'm convinced its coaching. Some teams mold their draft picks into the kinds of players they need to be. Fred bennett was solid is rookie year and has regressed. Cushing looks solid for now, does he fall off next year? Coaches have to put what they have in a position to succeed. If the guy fails you hold him accountable and bring in the next guy. We need talent at some positions but what is going on here is inexcusable. The worst D in the league is a coaching issue.

Bennett was better than Faggins (or much of what we had), but still never above average IMO.

ATXtexanfan
09-28-2009, 06:16 PM
Bennett was better than Faggins (or much of what we had), but still never above average IMO.
How does he go from being solid to garbage? Shouldn't guys get better with experience? Worry about cushing being destroyed, the staff sucks. I know our D isn't the most talented but how does indi do it?

Mr teX
09-28-2009, 07:03 PM
The biggest problem is in the secondary. Dunta Robinson is a 2nd corner on any other decent team. Reeves would be the nickel. Our safeties would be special teams guys. We have no legitimate safety, no legitimate corners. Our d-line is actually getting pressure on the quarterbacks, but the secondary is allowing the qb's to make plays and complete passes on 3rd and long. The d-line is also stuffing MOST runs. But on the occasions where they're able to double-or triple-team one of our tackles and create a hole, the secondary is unable to stop the runner. Hence the long runs in each of the first three games.

How do you fix this, or at least bandage it for now? With schemes that blitz and put constant pressure and fear into the quarterback. Like Richard Smith before him, Frank Bush rarely calls all-out blitz packages and relies on his front four. Regardless of what a lot of you say here, our defensive line IS talented. But everyone knows - double Mario and leave a RB behind to find the guy that gets through, and you have all day to pass. There's no 5th guy rushing in, so they have all four of our guys tied up, and the qb just waits for the inevitable breakdown in our crappy secondary to nail a receiver.

WHY NO BLITZING? I'd be happy to give up the occasional "big play" to see a qb harassed all day long. Hell, we give that up anyway in the running game. At least running a linebacker or safety through some gaps will also stuff a run if they hand off.

These schemes suck. Too bad Ray Rhodes' health is poor. I wouldn't mind that guy taking over the defense either.

We blitzed Sanchez all day & he beat us. we also blitzed Collins & Gerrard a pretty good amount too. In all of these situations, we still got gashed with the run.

Mr. White
09-29-2009, 07:24 AM
It's year 4 for Kubiak.

Dom had 4 and was out.

Looks like a similar fate awaits Kubiak.

Please Bob, hire the right guy next time.

I guess I go back to the 07 season when they got lucky on some street free agents. They got lucky on guys like Will Demps, Anthony Maddox, and Cedric Killings.

The patchwork philosophy worked for a couple of years, but at some point, you actually need to draft some early round guys. It's a joke to expect anything out of McCain and Quin at this point.

We've relied too heavily on UDFA's and guys off the street for too long and now it's biting us in the @$$.

I guess my point is that it doesn't matter if it's the coaches or the players because Gary Kubiak signed off on everyone on the roster.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 10:26 AM
We blitzed Sanchez all day & he beat us. we also blitzed Collins & Gerrard a pretty good amount too. In all of these situations, we still got gashed with the run.

Not on obvious passing situations we didn't. They relied on their front 4 in all of the 3rd and longs. The Jets have one of the best o-lines (4 first-round draft picks) in the NFL. You'll have a hard time getting to their qb with only 4 people trying to get to him. Garrard had 5-7 seconds on all of his 3rd and longs Sunday. The 5- and 6-man rushes were few and far between.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 10:32 AM
I guess I go back to the 07 season when they got lucky on some street free agents. They got lucky on guys like Will Demps, Anthony Maddox, and Cedric Killings.

The patchwork philosophy worked for a couple of years, but at some point, you actually need to draft some early round guys. It's a joke to expect anything out of McCain and Quin at this point.

We've relied too heavily on UDFA's and guys off the street for too long and now it's biting us in the @$$.

I guess my point is that it doesn't matter if it's the coaches or the players because Gary Kubiak signed off on everyone on the roster.

You only have a pick a round. Every year since Andre Johnson they've drafted for defense first. The problem is during the Casserly years, they built a HORRIBLE defense, and we're still trying to recover. I'm not trying to make excuses but it's fact. My God, everyone (me included) wanted Bush or Young in '06. Can you IMAGINE how bad we'd be if we didn't at LEAST have Mario? If you draft for the secondary, you don't have Mario. You don't have Demeco. You don't have Okoye. You don't have Cushing. The defense was/is so God-awful personnel-wise, it truly will take a couple more years still to right it. Yes, we are pathetic in the secondary, but this isn't fantasy football. You don't get to draft Top-10 talent at skill positions for 4 rounds in a row. It's a damn good thing we have Kubiak and Lil' Shanny running the offense they do so we can at least stay competitive for most games.

swtbound07
09-29-2009, 10:40 AM
new rule. Everytime we give up a touchdown of over 50 yards, I'm blaming the safeties.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 10:49 AM
Too bad the cowgirls actually look decent. I'd love to get Wade Phillips here as a d-coordinator.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 10:52 AM
:thinking:

Fred Bennett
Dunta Robinson
John Busing
Eugene Wilson
Amobi Okoye

From another thread.

Runner
09-29-2009, 11:16 AM
.
You only have a pick a round. Every year since Andre Johnson they've drafted for defense first. The problem is during the Casserly years, they built a HORRIBLE defense, and we're still trying to recover. I'm not trying to make excuses but it's fact. My God, everyone (me included) wanted Bush or Young in '06. Can you IMAGINE how bad we'd be if we didn't at LEAST have Mario?

1) It's well past time to blame Casserly for current problems. The new staff has been here long enough to take responsibility for the team. I'm not sure why Rick Smith enjoys such a great reputation as a discoverer of talent.

2) Beyond point one, the defenses in the Capers/Casserly years were better than what they have now.

3) Not everyone wanted Bush or Young. Apparently not even your whipping boy Casserly.

swtbound07
09-29-2009, 11:19 AM
You only have a pick a round. Every year since Andre Johnson they've drafted for defense first. The problem is during the Casserly years, they built a HORRIBLE defense, and we're still trying to recover. I'm not trying to make excuses but it's fact. My God, everyone (me included) wanted Bush or Young in '06. Can you IMAGINE how bad we'd be if we didn't at LEAST have Mario? If you draft for the secondary, you don't have Mario. You don't have Demeco. You don't have Okoye. You don't have Cushing. The defense was/is so God-awful personnel-wise, it truly will take a couple more years still to right it. Yes, we are pathetic in the secondary, but this isn't fantasy football. You don't get to draft Top-10 talent at skill positions for 4 rounds in a row. It's a damn good thing we have Kubiak and Lil' Shanny running the offense they do so we can at least stay competitive for most games.

Yeah, and I'd trade Antwaun Molden for a decent free safety. I'd trade Connor Barwin for a decent free safety. I'd trade Most of our first four round picks of the past couple of years for a decent safety. Its a joke to think you can ignore the most important stopgap in your defense for your entire franchise history and think that you'll be okay.

If I hear one more person tell me that we have to draft more D-Line and that it will make our secondary look good then I am going to scream. Our safeties suck. They have always sucked. I'd bet we've given up more big plays then any other franchise in the nfl over the past 3 years. Anybody remember the lee evans game? What about Calvin Johnson last year on the sucktastic lions? Chris johnson's field day? MJD busting off another one? The incomparably uncovered Chansi Stuckey? Any of this making you people want another DT? My God i'm so sick of the same shit.

Mr teX
09-29-2009, 11:26 AM
It's not a coincidence that the best defenses last year & even this year have had great safety play. Polamalu, Reed, Griffin.....:thinking:...of course some semblance of a pass rush goes a long way too.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 11:34 AM
Yeah, and I'd trade Antwaun Molden for a decent free safety. I'd trade Connor Barwin for a decent free safety. I'd trade Most of our first four round picks of the past couple of years for a decent safety. Its a joke to think you can ignore the most important stopgap in your defense for your entire franchise history and think that you'll be okay.

So would all of us. But what "decent" safeties were available when those guys were taken? We need to be able to use a first-round pick on a good safety because there ain't no good ones being let go by any teams. There were so many gigantic holes on this pathetic defense, it will take half a generation to fill them all. Frankly, Eugene Wilson was the best FA safety to come available in the last few years, and we got him. And he's not all that good either.

Mr. White
09-29-2009, 11:50 AM
So would all of us. But what "decent" safeties were available when those guys were taken? We need to be able to use a first-round pick on a good safety because there ain't no good ones being let go by any teams. There were so many gigantic holes on this pathetic defense, it will take half a generation to fill them all. Frankly, Eugene Wilson was the best FA safety to come available in the last few years, and we got him. And he's not all that good either.

Darelle Revis was still on the board when we drafted Okoye. How about all the big name free agent DB's that were on the market the past 3 years that we passed on or never considered?

I haven't seen anything in "Smithiak's" history that shows me that they're willing to pay for decent DB's. They might be overpriced, but "the going rate's the going rate." Any team that wants good DB's pays the premium.

If the personnel is the problem, then the GM is the problem which means that the coach is the problem because they're all his guys.

swtbound07
09-29-2009, 12:06 PM
So would all of us. But what "decent" safeties were available when those guys were taken? We need to be able to use a first-round pick on a good safety because there ain't no good ones being let go by any teams. There were so many gigantic holes on this pathetic defense, it will take half a generation to fill them all. Frankly, Eugene Wilson was the best FA safety to come available in the last few years, and we got him. And he's not all that good either.

We could have william moore, Sherrod Martin, or Mike Mitchell right now instead of a situational edge rusher.

Instead of Antoine "I can't see the field" Caldwell, we could have Rashad Johnson playing safety for us. I can do this to most of our draft picks.

Its one thing to draft the wrong guy. Its another to ignore the position forever.

TheRealJoker
09-29-2009, 12:10 PM
If we wanted veteran leadership and a bandaid at safety we could've signed Brian Dawkins instead of resigning Eugene Wilson. Dawkins was the leader on one of the best defenses in the last decade. Eugene got cut from Tampa Bay before he got here.

TexansFanatic
09-29-2009, 12:18 PM
I guess my point is that it doesn't matter if it's the coaches or the players because Gary Kubiak signed off on everyone on the roster.

And that's an excellent point.

You can say it's not the coach's fault that the players suck. But then who picked the players?

Answer: the coach.

Ruh-roh.

Scooter
09-29-2009, 12:22 PM
edit.

Porky
09-29-2009, 01:13 PM
If I had a dollar for every time a safety made a bad play in this franchise's history, I would make Bill Gates look like Mother Teresa. We have not had one single freaking decent safety in the entire 8 years of this franchise. The only servicable one we ever had was Marlon Mcree and it isn't like he is Ed Reed. And they tossed him anyway. I think Wilson can be serviable in coverage but he isn't all that and a bag of chips. He isn't a "plus" player.

It's been consistent across various coaches, schemes, GM's, and personel. In fact, If one was a conspiracy buff he might stop and think who is the only person consistently there the whole time, and wonders if said person doesn't want to pay big bucks to such a non glamour position. :thinking:

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 01:38 PM
If I had a dollar for every time a safety made a bad play in this franchise's history, I would make Bill Gates look like Mother Teresa. We have not had one single freaking decent safety in the entire 8 years of this franchise. The only servicable one we ever had was Marlon Mcree and it isn't like he is Ed Reed. And they tossed him anyway. I think Wilson can be serviable in coverage but he isn't all that and a bag of chips. He isn't a "plus" player.

It's been consistent across various coaches, schemes, GM's, and personel. In fact, If one was a conspiracy buff he might stop and think who is the only person consistently there the whole time, and wonders if said person doesn't want to pay big bucks to such a non glamour position. :thinking:

Again, if you go after a safety, you don't get Cushing, Okoye, Mario, Dunta, or Duane Brown (who has been superb). The big misses were Travis Johnson and Jason Babin. It comes down to having too many needs and not enough first round draft picks. Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact is, Casserly's misses are STILL killing us. Sure, I think the jury's still out on Okoye, but I don't think in drafting him he was considered a "project". MOST boards had him in the top 10, and many had him as high as 5. It was not a reach, and at the time, everyone here thought he was a great pick.

It's easy to look back and say, "Oh, why did we take this guy when we could've had that guy?" Don't you think San Diego would love to throw back the Ryan Leaf pick? Or Tennessee Vince Young? Hindsight is 20/20, and all in all, the Smithiak team has been all "hits" on their drafting. The fact is, there STILL isn't enough talent on our defense.

Battle Red Flash
09-29-2009, 01:46 PM
I believe it's coaching and personnel decisions, both.

If Dungy was head coach, and Rex Ryan was D Coordinator, would we be this bad with these players?
Answer: No Freaking Way.

Saying that, our DT's and Safeties blow chunks. That's Smith's fault.

swtbound07
09-29-2009, 01:53 PM
Again, if you go after a safety, you don't get Cushing, Okoye, Mario, Dunta, or Duane Brown (who has been superb). The big misses were Travis Johnson and Jason Babin. It comes down to having too many needs and not enough first round draft picks. Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact is, Casserly's misses are STILL killing us. Sure, I think the jury's still out on Okoye, but I don't think in drafting him he was considered a "project". MOST boards had him in the top 10, and many had him as high as 5. It was not a reach, and at the time, everyone here thought he was a great pick.

It's easy to look back and say, "Oh, why did we take this guy when we could've had that guy?" Don't you think San Diego would love to throw back the Ryan Leaf pick? Or Tennessee Vince Young? Hindsight is 20/20, and all in all, the Smithiak team has been all "hits" on their drafting. The fact is, there STILL isn't enough talent on our defense.

A first round pick isn't necessary to improve the position. A pick before the 7th probably is. Stop blaming casserly for a problem this regime has had ample time to address

Porky
09-29-2009, 02:13 PM
Again, if you go after a safety, you don't get Cushing, Okoye, Mario, Dunta, or Duane Brown (who has been superb). The big misses were Travis Johnson and Jason Babin. It comes down to having too many needs and not enough first round draft picks. Not to beat a dead horse, but the fact is, Casserly's misses are STILL killing us. Sure, I think the jury's still out on Okoye, but I don't think in drafting him he was considered a "project". MOST boards had him in the top 10, and many had him as high as 5. It was not a reach, and at the time, everyone here thought he was a great pick.

It's easy to look back and say, "Oh, why did we take this guy when we could've had that guy?" Don't you think San Diego would love to throw back the Ryan Leaf pick? Or Tennessee Vince Young? Hindsight is 20/20, and all in all, the Smithiak team has been all "hits" on their drafting. The fact is, there STILL isn't enough talent on our defense.

I know what you are saying but man I have to disagree. Whole teams are assembled and rebuilt in 4 years in this league. If you are still blaming Asserly for this team, that dog won't hunt. How many players still exist from the Casserly regime? It's very few. Nope, the lack of a decent safety or decent tackles falls squarley at the feet of Gary Smithiak. Rick and Gary have assembled this squad. If they don't have enough talent, that is their fault, and I'm about ready to show both of them the door and get someone in here who knows what the hell a safety is.

Runner
09-29-2009, 02:13 PM
A first round pick isn't necessary to improve the position. A pick before the 7th probably is. Stop blaming casserly for a problem this regime has had ample time to address

I predict the Casserly excuse will die only if Detroit shrugs off the Matt Millen legacy and beats the Texans to the playoffs.

swtbound07
09-29-2009, 02:16 PM
I predict the Casserly excuse will die only if Detroit shrugs off the Matt Millen legacy and beats the Texans to the playoffs.

sadly you are probably correct

Double Barrel
09-29-2009, 02:23 PM
I predict the Casserly excuse will die only if Detroit shrugs off the Matt Millen legacy and beats the Texans to the playoffs.

Houston is the city with the longest drought of no playoffs, ties with Detroit (last appearance 1999) and that does not count the few years we had without a team. We are basically looking at a 9 year drought, not including this season ['94-'96 + '02-'07]. Such great company...sarcastically speaking, of course.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 02:35 PM
A first round pick isn't necessary to improve the position. A pick before the 7th probably is. Stop blaming casserly for a problem this regime has had ample time to address

This team had way more than one bad position when Smithiak took over. DE, DT, QB, LB, TE, OL, RB, and S were all terrible. Beyond Dunta and AJ, our CB's and WR's were also awful. In our 4th year now, we have a very good QB, receiving corps, LB corps, RB, TE, at least one great DE, and a solid OL. That's a hell of a lot to fix in 3 years.

I'm frustrated as hell, too at how long this has taken to fix. But in reading my own posts and thinking things through, I think I'll give this regime a bit of a break if they've fixed all but two positions in 3 years.

Porky
09-29-2009, 02:39 PM
This team had way more than one bad position when Smithiak took over. DE, DT, QB, LB, TE, OL, RB, and S were all terrible. Beyond Dunta and AJ, our CB's and WR's were also awful. In our 4th year now, we have a very good QB, receiving corps, LB corps, RB, TE, at least one great DE, and a solid OL. That's a hell of a lot to fix in 3 years.

I'm frustrated as hell, too at how long this has taken to fix. But in reading my own posts and thinking things through, I think I'll give this regime a bit of a break if they've fixed all but two positions in 3 years.

It's 4 years. :pirate:

swtbound07
09-29-2009, 02:40 PM
This team had way more than one bad position when Smithiak took over. DE, DT, QB, LB, TE, OL, RB, and S were all terrible. Beyond Dunta and AJ, our CB's and WR's were also awful. In our 4th year now, we have a very good QB, receiving corps, LB corps, RB, TE, at least one great DE, and a solid OL. That's a hell of a lot to fix in 3 years.

I'm frustrated as hell, too at how long this has taken to fix. But in reading my own posts and thinking things through, I think I'll give this regime a bit of a break if they've fixed all but two positions in 3 years.

I won't. S was and has been the worst. You can disagree if you like, but I've been screaming for a FS since sean taylor was in college.

Mr. White
09-29-2009, 02:45 PM
I'll go out on a limb here and say that the DB's that we have on the roster now are worse than the ones we had in 06 when Kubiak took over.

But then again, I'm not sure that the coaching is better. Giving up 400 yards a game was a common occurrence back then too.

Mr teX
09-29-2009, 02:55 PM
I'll go out on a limb here and say that the DB's that we have on the roster now are worse than the ones we had in 06 when Kubiak took over.

But then again, I'm not sure that the coaching is better. Giving up 400 yards a game was a common occurrence back then too.

i'd say its about a draw...we had more experience back then, but the talent was still dookie..

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:05 PM
It's 4 years. :pirate:

We're IN their fourth year. You can't say you've been through a year until it's been a year. You don't turn a year older the day after your birthday!

Porky
09-29-2009, 03:05 PM
Bottom line it's personnel and coaching, but since the coaches dictate to the front office what they want, it's really coaching more than anything.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:07 PM
I won't. S was and has been the worst. You can disagree if you like, but I've been screaming for a FS since sean taylor was in college.

Sure, and I've been screaming for a RB since 2002. We still haven't landed a top-tier one, because there are STILL too many holes to fill.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 03:10 PM
Sure, and I've been screaming for a RB since 2002. We still haven't landed a top-tier one, because there are STILL too many holes to fill.

LMAO. I've been screaming defense ever since we actually had some pretty good guys on that side of the ball. The problem was that they were all on the downside of their careers and their shelf life was short. Sharper, Glenn, Coleman, Wong, Payne, Walker were all like 67 years old when they came here.

Porky
09-29-2009, 03:10 PM
We're IN their fourth year. You can't say you've been through a year until it's been a year. You don't turn a year older the day after your birthday!

Well, Boob Mcsquare isn't going to fire anyone in mid year. It's not his style. So, we'll be served a big pile of warmed over dog crap for the rest of the year making it four solid years of incompentent defense. So, there you go. Four years.

Porky
09-29-2009, 03:12 PM
Sure, and I've been screaming for a RB since 2002. We still haven't landed a top-tier one, because there are STILL too many holes to fill.

Still too many holes to fill? Hell the Great Wall of China and the Pyramids were built in less time than this team needs to fill holes. :gun:

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 03:12 PM
This team had way more than one bad position when Smithiak took over. DE, DT, QB, LB, TE, OL, RB, and S were all terrible. Beyond Dunta and AJ, our CB's and WR's were also awful. In our 4th year now, we have a very good QB, receiving corps, LB corps, RB, TE, at least one great DE, and a solid OL. That's a hell of a lot to fix in 3 years.

I'm frustrated as hell, too at how long this has taken to fix. But in reading my own posts and thinking things through, I think I'll give this regime a bit of a break if they've fixed all but two positions in 3 years.

Rick Smith had nothing to do with Mario Williams, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston or David Anderson.

He's just now addressed the DE position with Smith and Barwin, both of whom haven't produced a whole lot. Its still early there though.

He hasn't addressed safety at all. A bunch of special teamers, that's it.

He botched the DT position with Okam and Okoye, so far anyway.

Myers has been less than average. He did pick up Studdard but the jury is still out on him. I like Caldwell, props there although he hasn't seen the field. Love Duane Brown.

Our CBs are just as bad as before he came around. Actually Reeves is an upgrade, but he missed on Bennett. Small school players like Molden (can't stay healthy or get on the field), Quin, and McCain have been non factors. It's still early on those guys but we needed immediate help.

He brought in one good RB in Slaton, who's struggling. Other than Slaton he has done little to upgrade that.

He's done well with linebackers. Ill give him that. Diles, Cushing, and Adibi are significant upgrades.

He picked up Casey, who I guess could replace Daniels but why replace him? He is a probowler. Casey can't see the field with Owen, Dreesen, and Hill on the roster.

I think Smith hasn't done nearly enough. Sure he upgraded LB, picked up one good RB in 3 years, got a couple OL that Alex Gibbs can work with, but that's really all I am seeing.

Drafted 4 corners in his time, no upgrade so far. Drafted 3 safeties, no upgrade. 2 DTs, no upgrade.

Tedc
09-29-2009, 03:16 PM
I haven't read this whole thing so, excuse me if I repeat something but I feel that a coach has to use the scemes/plans that fit the personnel best. Doing ANYTHING else is suicide for the coach.


A new coach has what he inherits and needs to do what is needed to win with what he has. If a coach has four years and he STILL doesn't have the right personnel, see ya!

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:20 PM
Rick Smith had nothing to do with Mario Williams, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston or David Anderson.

As far as we know, anyway. But those were still Kubiak's guys. You can't tell me Casserly got 4 hits in one draft after 5 YEARS of misses (save AJ).

Mr. White
09-29-2009, 03:27 PM
As far as we know, anyway. But those were still Kubiak's guys. You can't tell me Casserly got 4 hits in one draft after 5 YEARS of misses (save AJ).

You are aware that there's other ways to build a team besides the draft, right?

Lots of free agents have come and gone in the time since "Smithiak" took over. Plenty of them were DB's.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 03:36 PM
You are aware that there's other ways to build a team besides the draft, right?

Lots of free agents have come and gone in the time since "Smithiak" took over. Plenty of them were DB's.

Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Brian Dawkins, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Dawan Landry, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Oshiomogho Atogwe, UFA, St Louis Rams
Tyron Brackenridge, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Phillip Buchanon, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jabari Greer, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Rodney Harrison, UFA, New England Patriots
Kelvin Hayden, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Renaldo Hill, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Daven Holly, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Sean Jones, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Bryant McFadden, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
R.W. McQuarters, UFA, New York Giants
Lawyer Milloy, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
Deltha O'Neal, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Jarrad Page, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Bucs
Allen Rossum, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Darren Sharper, UFA, Darren Sharper


:foottap:

Texaninlild
09-29-2009, 03:53 PM
You know I actually think we are flying around the ball better and hitting harder, but many times we are no where near the ball. So is the hitting harder from better players. Probably, yes. Who is responsible for the mental breakdowns? Probably coaching first and then players. Right now they remind of the kid from Father of the Bride who had the bucket on his head and kept running into walls.:brickwall:

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 04:10 PM
Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Brian Dawkins, UFA, Philadelphia Eagles
Dawan Landry, RFA, Baltimore Ravens
Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Oshiomogho Atogwe, UFA, St Louis Rams
Tyron Brackenridge, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Mike Brown, UFA, Chicago Bears
Phillip Buchanon, UFA, Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jabari Greer, UFA, Buffalo Bills
Rodney Harrison, UFA, New England Patriots
Kelvin Hayden, UFA, Indianapolis Colts
Renaldo Hill, UFA, Miami Dolphins
Daven Holly, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Sean Jones, UFA, Cleveland Browns
Bryant McFadden, UFA, Pittsburgh Steelers
R.W. McQuarters, UFA, New York Giants
Lawyer Milloy, UFA, Atlanta Falcons
Deltha O'Neal, UFA, Cincinnati Bengals
Jarrad Page, UFA, Kansas City Chiefs
Jermaine Phillips, UFA, Tampa Bay Bucs
Allen Rossum, UFA, San Francisco 49ers
Darren Sharper, UFA, Darren Sharper


:foottap:

And how many of those are worth a damn? And of THOSE, how many were interested in coming to this team? Just because you pursue a FA doesn't mean they're interested. And that's not always about money. It could be about location, family, coaches, business ventures. To lure a player away from those intangibles requires overpaying. Who on that list is worth overpaying?

swtbound07
09-30-2009, 10:50 AM
Sure, and I've been screaming for a RB since 2002. We still haven't landed a top-tier one, because there are STILL too many holes to fill.

steve slaton and dom davis were both top tier backs. We've rostered 2. 0 starting caliber safeties. Your screaming for the wrong thing.

Mr teX
09-30-2009, 11:27 AM
Rick Smith had nothing to do with Mario Williams, Owen Daniels, Eric Winston or David Anderson.

He's just now addressed the DE position with Smith and Barwin, both of whom haven't produced a whole lot. Its still early there though.

He hasn't addressed safety at all. A bunch of special teamers, that's it.

He botched the DT position with Okam and Okoye, so far anyway.

Myers has been less than average. He did pick up Studdard but the jury is still out on him. I like Caldwell, props there although he hasn't seen the field. Love Duane Brown.

Our CBs are just as bad as before he came around. Actually Reeves is an upgrade, but he missed on Bennett. Small school players like Molden (can't stay healthy or get on the field), Quin, and McCain have been non factors. It's still early on those guys but we needed immediate help.

He brought in one good RB in Slaton, who's struggling. Other than Slaton he has done little to upgrade that.

He's done well with linebackers. Ill give him that. Diles, Cushing, and Adibi are significant upgrades.

He picked up Casey, who I guess could replace Daniels but why replace him? He is a probowler. Casey can't see the field with Owen, Dreesen, and Hill on the roster.

I think Smith hasn't done nearly enough. Sure he upgraded LB, picked up one good RB in 3 years, got a couple OL that Alex Gibbs can work with, but that's really all I am seeing.

Drafted 4 corners in his time, no upgrade so far. Drafted 3 safeties, no upgrade. 2 DTs, no upgrade.

He works closely with Kubiak on who he selects via the draft & FA. If he's at fault then kubiak is at fault as well & both need to go.

Marcus
09-30-2009, 11:32 AM
Correct me if I'm wrong here, but I seem to recall at one time that Richard Smith remarked that there was not enough talent to play anything other than a read and react scheme. Or maybe it was something like we didn't have the talent to cover the blitzing schemes because there was not enough pressure on the QB.

Maybe he was on to something. :shrug:

playa465
10-02-2009, 12:32 AM
I have to believe it's more personnel and Talent. Guys just seem to be way out of position on the big plays. D Rob was quoted on 610 this morning as saying it's not the coaching, it's guy's having mental lapses and not being where they're supposed to be......

People out of position to start a play is unacceptable...DeMeco has to realize his role is also to ensure everyone is good to go before every play he is on the field...once the the formation is set, he has to be the lead eyes on the defensive side. Back to the thread, I think its 70% coaching and 20% players. The coaches must instill discipline and mental toughness in the players, this will allow them to be better prepared. The players must own up and perform the basics (tackling and keeping assignments). These guys are making alot of money and I would hope have some sort of pride in their profession, with that talk is cheap and they HAVE to step their game up. The last 10% is management, if we have the coaching and the schemes but if the players are not right for what they were brought in to do then that's a boo boo on management. The question is which do you do, bring in a supposedly better coach for your talented underachieving players or do you get better players to fit what your current coach wants to do.

Runner
10-02-2009, 12:43 AM
Since the same people are responsible for the coaching and talent, the question is somewhat moot.

Texecutioner
10-02-2009, 12:46 AM
Since the same people are responsible for the coaching and talent, the question is somewhat moot.

Runner, what the hell is up with that avatar? A picture of someone's feet?

Runner
10-02-2009, 12:49 AM
Runner, what the hell is up with that avatar? A picture of someone's feet?

That's not just someone - that's ME!

Goldensilence
10-02-2009, 02:28 AM
And how many of those are worth a damn? And of THOSE, how many were interested in coming to this team? Just because you pursue a FA doesn't mean they're interested. And that's not always about money. It could be about location, family, coaches, business ventures. To lure a player away from those intangibles requires overpaying. Who on that list is worth overpaying?

way to throw the baby out with the bath water. Did Bill ever suggest over paying any of them?

How many are worth a damn? If you don't at least think the defense gets a significant upgrade by picking up Brian Dawkins... then you're either really chugging the kool aide on Don. Barber(or related) or just brain dead.

Atgotwe was tagged by St. Louis fwiw worth. Mike Brown...signed by KC...of course. Landry is a RFA but, I would've liked to see an offer at least made. Perhaps if we make that offer Ravens opt to say ok..and keep Leonhard instead because he'd be cheaper. Hell why not make Leonhard an offer?

Shoot me Lawyer Milloy signed by the Seahawks Sept 5th.