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View Full Version : League defends JJ's TD catch.


4Texans
09-22-2009, 10:51 AM
PFT has an issue with the rule......

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/09/22/league-defends-touchdown-calls-for-texans-panthers/

Specifically, in similar situations during Week Two, the Texans and the Panthers each got to keep a touchdown when, based on the letter of the rule that robbed the Raiders, it looked to us like they shouldn't.

"On Jacoby Jones, he caught the ball, his knee hit the ground, and he maintained possession," Aiello added. "Then the Titans player flipped him over the top and [Jones] hit the ground a second time and lost the ball. But it was already a touchdown by virtue of maintaining possession the first time he hit the ground."

As to Jones, the only difference was that, before Jones could naturally land on the ground, he was flipped and tossed to the ground by the Tennessee defender. But, in our view, Jones was still in the act of going to the ground. So he needed to keep possession until he landed on the ground. Clearly, he didn't.

Bottom line? This gap in the rule and the interpretation of it needs to be addressed and resolved, quickly. In the perception of this neutral third party who if anything is naturally inclined to support the league's position on things of this nature, either the Murphy call was wrong, or the calls from Sunday were wrong.

nero THE zero
09-22-2009, 10:53 AM
I need to see the Murphy play.

DerekLee1
09-22-2009, 10:59 AM
He had possession and his knee hit the ground. Then he got flipped over. Then his ELBOW hit the ground. THEN the ball fell loose. Not once, but twice he had possession in the end zone with a body part on the ground (remember Reggie Wayne's calf-on-the-ground catch?) before the ball fell loose. Easy call. That's a completion. Twice.

HoustonFrog
09-22-2009, 11:01 AM
Well with their explanation he was down at the 2 or 1 then.

BigBull17
09-22-2009, 11:01 AM
He had possession and his knee hit the ground. Then he got flipped over. Then his ELBOW hit the ground. THEN the ball fell loose. Not once, but twice he had possession in the end zone with a body part on the ground (remember Reggie Wayne's calf-on-the-ground catch?) before the ball fell loose. Easy call. That's a completion. Twice.

I agree. That was a great catch.

DexmanC
09-22-2009, 11:06 AM
Well with their explanation he was down at the 2 or 1 then.

The ball broke the plane when his knee was on the ground. Touchdown.

GuerillaBlack
09-22-2009, 11:07 AM
Well with their explanation he was down at the 2 or 1 then.

But the ball was over the goalline.

Blake
09-22-2009, 11:08 AM
Well with their explanation he was down at the 2 or 1 then.

You have a twisted way of interpreting information. Why would he be down at the 2 or the 1? The ball crossed the goal line when his knee touched the ground.

RTP2110
09-22-2009, 11:09 AM
That's a completion. Twice.

I was posting on another forum when that TD happened. I told them that JJ was down about 4 times before the ball came loose.

DerekLee1
09-22-2009, 11:11 AM
I'm not saying this is HoustonFrog or not, but this rule confuses a lot of people. The spot goes where the BALL is when the player is down, not WHERE THE PLAYER'S BODY TOUCHES THE GROUND.

I didn't understand that rule for years, and I still know a lot of people that think the opposite is true.

TEXANS84
09-22-2009, 11:17 AM
I need to see the Murphy play.

The Murphy touchdown was insane to overturn. His catch looked more of a TD than Jacoby's.

The league seriously messed up on the Raiders game.

DocBar
09-22-2009, 11:28 AM
I was pleasantly surprised when the review stood as a TD. IMO, it was dicey as to JJ having "possession" of the ball. I've seen calls overturned in similar situations.

Double Barrel
09-22-2009, 11:30 AM
Once the ball breaks the plane, it is a TD and what happens after that is irrelevant.

I'd like to see the Raiders play for comparison, though. It sounds like the league screwed the pooch with that call, but I don't know until I see it.

4Texans
09-22-2009, 11:33 AM
I was pleasantly surprised when the review stood as a TD. IMO, it was dicey as to JJ having "possession" of the ball. I've seen calls overturned in similar situations.

I was the same way. After seeing the first replay, I told my wife the TD would be over-ruled. Thankfully it went our way.

HoustonFrog
09-22-2009, 11:34 AM
You have a twisted way of interpreting information. Why would he be down at the 2 or the 1? The ball crossed the goal line when his knee touched the ground.

How am I twisted? Breaking the plane before you are down equals TD. We all know that. From the replays I kept seeing the other day he didn't look like he had yet. Announcers said the same. Just my interpretation. Lose the attitude.

DocBar
09-22-2009, 11:35 AM
Once the ball breaks the plane, it is a TD and what happens after that is irrelevant.

I'd like to see the Raiders play for comparison, though. It sounds like the league screwed the pooch with that call, but I don't know until I see it.
I don't believe that is the case on a catch IN the endzone. The receiver should have to maintain control until ruled down by contact. What saved JJ is the fact that he had possession when his knee hit the 1st time and was considered down by contact. The whole play looked iffy to me and I feel fortunate that it was ruled in our favor.

nero THE zero
09-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Once the ball breaks the plane, it is a TD and what happens after that is irrelevant.

I'd like to see the Raiders play for comparison, though. It sounds like the league screwed the pooch with that call, but I don't know until I see it.

I found it on You Tube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7QwZCIwMyc)

Double Barrel
09-22-2009, 11:41 AM
I don't believe that is the case on a catch IN the endzone. The receiver should have to maintain control until ruled down by contact. What saved JJ is the fact that he had possession when his knee hit the 1st time and was considered down by contact. The whole play looked iffy to me and I feel fortunate that it was ruled in our favor.

Exactly. The ball broke the plane and his knee made him officially down, so after that point it did not matter what happened.

I found it on You Tube. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7QwZCIwMyc)

Thanks for the link.

O.k., I remember that play live, and I do not see it as the same as the JJ catch, because he was never down. I don't see the comparisons that people are making. He never maintained possession, where JJ did maintain it with his knee touching the ground.

I think the league was right on both calls. Good job refs.

infantrycak
09-22-2009, 11:42 AM
PFT has an issue with the rule......

Seems to me Aeillo is spot on and the PFT guy isn't listening. Yes he had to maintain possession to the ground. He did once. The rule doesn't say he had to do it again.

The Murphy touchdown was insane to overturn. His catch looked more of a TD than Jacoby's.

The league seriously messed up on the Raiders game.

After watching that youtube video, that looks like the right call.

Once the ball breaks the plane, it is a TD and what happens after that is irrelevant.

No, he did have to maintain possession to the ground once, just not twice.

Double Barrel
09-22-2009, 11:46 AM
No, he did have to maintain possession to the ground once, just not twice.

yeah, I should have said that once the ball breaks the plane and possession is established, it is a TD and what happens after that is irrelevant.

infantrycak
09-22-2009, 11:53 AM
yeah, I should have said that once the ball breaks the plane and possession is established, it is a TD and what happens after that is irrelevant.

The youtube video was a good explanation but it raises other questions for me. In that Steve Smith example first off that looked an awful lot like a late hit by the second guy, but say that play is not taking place on the sideline, can you late hit a guy who is in the process of establishing possession? I wouldn't think so. But that seems to mean DB's should pummel any WR until he comes to a dead stop.

bigbrewster2000
09-22-2009, 12:13 PM
The youtube video was a good explanation but it raises other questions for me. In that Steve Smith example first off that looked an awful lot like a late hit by the second guy, but say that play is not taking place on the sideline, can you late hit a guy who is in the process of establishing possession? I wouldn't think so. But that seems to mean DB's should pummel any WR until he comes to a dead stop.

I watched that closely since you made that comment but the second guy was already in the air moving his body toward Smith well before he was out of bounds. That really just looked like tackle progression.

Hooston Texan
09-22-2009, 12:14 PM
Seems to me Aeillo is spot on and the PFT guy isn't listening.

Mike Florio refusing to listen when overwhelming facts cut his ridiculous opinions off at the knees? Shocking!!

HJam72
09-22-2009, 12:24 PM
Simple. We get the TD AND it's a fumble. If the defender picked the ball up after JJ dropped it, that's a safety against Tenn. and we get 2 more points and the ball back. :fans: If the ref. picks it up, JJ should nail him. :)

Gotta interject some reality here. :thinking:

Blake
09-22-2009, 01:39 PM
How am I twisted? Breaking the plane before you are down equals TD. We all know that. From the replays I kept seeing the other day he didn't look like he had yet. Announcers said the same. Just my interpretation. Lose the attitude.

The NFL spokesman, Greg Aiello, explains exactly why it was a catch and TD, and your response is "Well with their explanation he was down at the 2 or 1 then." How the hell from the NFL's explanation do you think JJ is down at the 2? Explain that to me? You dont make any sense on this one and that is why your interpretation is twisted.

And my last post wasnt attitude. Get over yourself.