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Vinny
02-14-2005, 01:14 PM
-- Kevin Johnson to Opt Out & Become Free Agent --
Sun Feb 13, 2005 --from www.FFMastermind.com

The Trenton Times reports the Baltimore Ravens will need a wide receiver to replace WR Kevin Johnson. He plans to opt out of his contract and give up a $1 million bonus he's due. Johnson wants a chance to test the market and play for a winning team with an experienced quarterback. "I've never had my choice," Johnson, who was drafted by Cleveland, claimed on waivers by Jacksonville and traded to Baltimore, said. "Let me go on the record and say I would love to play for the Eagles. I think I'd be perfect with Donovan, T.O. and (Brian) Westbrook. But I just want to play on a good team." That rules out the Giants, who supposedly have interest in him. Tampa Bay is a possibility, but don't be surprised if he goes to Houston and reunites with OC Chris Palmer, who drafted him out of Syracuse in 1999.

LikeABoss
02-14-2005, 01:30 PM
I think the guy is kinda overrated IMO idonno:

F-minus67
02-14-2005, 01:36 PM
he has not really done anything in his career. plus, he isn't the kind of speedster to replace bradford if he is not retained.

Vinny
02-14-2005, 01:42 PM
I think it makes a bit of sense. He is a solid WR2 and already knows Palmers run and shoot style pass route progressions and keys (we run pretty sophisticated pass routes and it is hard for a WR to step right in to our system), and will not command top dollar money. Thomas and Starling likely need another year or so to mature.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 02:00 PM
Gaffney and Armstrong are better than Kevin Johnson. If he wants to come cheap and accept a lesser role then so be it.

Vinny
02-14-2005, 02:09 PM
Gaffney and Armstrong are slot guys.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 02:10 PM
Gaffney and Armstrong are slot guys.


So is Kevin Johnson.

Honoring Earl 34
02-14-2005, 02:12 PM
:howdy: Ok what makes a slot guy different from a WR. I bet Kevin Johnsons not any faster than Gaffney .

Vinny
02-14-2005, 02:12 PM
KJ is a legit WR2 in the NFL, but I won't argue the fact since you don't think he is. He was very productive as a WR1 in Cleveland.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133324

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 02:15 PM
Have you seen Kevin Johnson play. He can not get any separation and is afraid of taking a hit. Ravens fans thought he would help their passing game but instead lost his job to a 6th round rookie.

wags
02-14-2005, 02:15 PM
Gaffney and Armstrong are slot guys.

Wouldn't you like to see more speed in the slot? We could get a linebacker or safety matchup and just burn right by them.

TEXANS84
02-14-2005, 02:16 PM
KJ is a legit WR2 in the NFL, but I won't argue the fact since you don't think he is. He was very productive as a WR1 in Cleveland.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/133324

I agree. Over 1000 yards and 9 touchdowns isn't slot reciever #'s, except for Stokley.

Vinny
02-14-2005, 02:16 PM
Have you seen Kevin Johnson play. This may come as a shock to you but I watch quite a bit of football.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 02:17 PM
It is kind of shocking since you think KJ would be a legit #2 WR for us.

Vinny
02-14-2005, 02:18 PM
Wouldn't you like to see more speed in the slot? We could get a linebacker or safety matchup and just burn right by them. Gaffney and Armstrong's strengths are exploiting linebacker zones, curls and come back patterns, and working in the middle of the field. More speed would be great but it isn't an absolute must in the slot.

Vinny
02-14-2005, 02:19 PM
It is kind of shocking since you think KJ would be a legit #2 WR for us.
I don't think I need to apologize for my football insight. Iím comfortable with it. Besides, all I did was bring this to the forum and say it makes a bit of sense. I'm just sharing what I found.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 02:24 PM
For a team desperately seeking anything that resembles a decent WR, most Ravens fans sure are glad to see him gone.

TEXANS84
02-14-2005, 02:26 PM
For a team desperately seeking anything that resembles a decent WR, most Ravens fans sure are glad to see him gone.
One man's trash is another man's treasure.

Just ask San Diego about Steve Foley.

wags
02-14-2005, 02:27 PM
More speed would be great but it isn't an absolute must in the slot.

I would really like to see us get someone in the slot who can burn. I remember Gaff getting chased down in the Chicago game and thinking "was he jogging?" I think we would see a lot more big plays if we got some speed in the slot. Lots of YAC, sorta like what Stokley does to us.

wags
02-14-2005, 02:28 PM
For a team desperately seeking anything that resembles a decent WR, most Ravens fans sure are glad to see him gone.

Insert QB in WR's place.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 02:30 PM
Hell, I would take Travis Taylor before Kevin Johnson.

Vinny
02-14-2005, 02:31 PM
I would really like to see us get someone in the slot who can burn. I remember Gaff getting chased down in the Chicago game and thinking "was he jogging?" I think we would see a lot more big plays if we got some speed in the slot. Lots of YAC, sorta like what Stokley does to us.
Here is some good stuff from Lucky...

Some interest stats regarding Gaffney in '04:

5.3 Yards After Catch average (YAC) - 8th among WRs with 40+ catches
21 1st down receptions on 3rd down - 7th in NFL (21 3rd down catches/21 1st downs)
82.9 1st down/catch % ( 34/41 ) - 6th in the NFL

Honoring Earl 34
02-14-2005, 02:31 PM
:howdy: A slot reciever can be dangerous . Its about match ups . I think Gaffney is more quick than fast . I quess WRs have to have straight ahead speed . Yo Vinny when are ya'll going to have the message board trivia tournement ? You can settle this knowledge thing once and for all . I'm betting the farm a 21 yr. can't beat me .

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 02:33 PM
Insert QB in WR's place.



Boller isn't as bad as most would think.

texasguy346
02-14-2005, 02:38 PM
I don't blame Johnson for wanting to leave. He had Boller tossing him the ball. I think he could do well in Houston if only because of his familiarity with Palmer's offense. If he could be had for a reasonable salary then I'd be all for it, but something about his history makes me think he'll be wanting more around the lines of #1 WR money. Guess we'll have to see what happens to Joey Porter first since he's likely to set the market for WR. Hopefully we don't have a run like last year when CBs were in high demand, and garnered more money than they likely should have gotten from teams desperate for decent CBs.

jagfan29
02-14-2005, 02:38 PM
KJ is a solid WR,he is not a burner but why do you need a burner when you have Andre Johnson.KJ is a good possesion WR that would complement AJ nicely.

wags
02-14-2005, 02:40 PM
Those stats are pretty good. Did Gaff play more #2 or slot this past season?

TEXANS84
02-14-2005, 02:50 PM
Those stats are pretty good. Did Gaff play more #2 or slot this past season?

Slot. Bradford was at the #2.

wags
02-14-2005, 02:52 PM
Slot. Bradford was at the #2.

I thought Gaff played #2 alot this year, at least when Bradford was injured. Gaff is listed as #2 on the final depth chart.

texasguy346
02-14-2005, 03:02 PM
I thought Gaff played #2 alot this year, at least when Bradford was injured. Gaff is listed as #2 on the final depth chart.

It was off and on. I remember some instances where Armstrong was lined up as the #2. The only set WR was AJ at #1.

rittenhouserobz
02-14-2005, 03:32 PM
Somebody correct me if I am wrong as I know someone will. :)
I thought the slot recievers needed to be able to read the defense and run fluid routes to the open areas. Speed is overrated for this particular role.

BTW. I think the best WR who could have played the slot position may have been Steve Largent.

Lucky
02-14-2005, 03:50 PM
Another guy who was great in the slot was the Oilers' Drew Hill. He would always find the open crease for Moon on 3rd down. I would love for Carr to have a guy like that. Gaffney & Armstrong have that type of potential, it just takes time.

Regarding KJ, he & McNabb were college roomies at Syracuse and have been crying about getting together for years. Don't know what Andy Reid thinks of Johnson, but the Eagles will have an opening soon when they release Fred-Ex. My guess is that Kevin ends up in Philly.

LikeABoss
02-14-2005, 04:10 PM
Regarding KJ, he & McNabb were college roomies at Syracuse and have been crying about getting together for years. Don't know what Andy Reid thinks of Johnson, but the Eagles will have an opening soon when they release Fred-Ex. My guess is that Kevin ends up in Philly.

I'm pretty sure he will take less money to play with the Eagles too :hmmm:

keyfro
02-14-2005, 06:36 PM
well let me put it this way...would you turn away a talented reciever who wants to come and play...no...if he wants to come here and play for the vet. minimum then i say let him

aj.
02-14-2005, 08:37 PM
Clarence Moore was getting most of the starts at #2 the second half of the season so I'm not sure if that's a function of KJ's skills eroding, his attitude (due to Billick's system), his work ethic or what. All of the above would be red flags to me.

His next team will be his 4th in 3 seasons so that's not a good sign. If he's willing to give up $$$ to get on a winner immediately, he may be feeling that he's on the downside and wants to go somewhere (like Philly) where he has a legit shot at a ring. If that's the case it doesn't seem likely that he would want to come here, even with the Palmer factor.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-14-2005, 08:43 PM
Kevin Johnson suffers from a severe case of Pinkston-itis. He would rather fall 1 yard short of the first down marker than take a hit and fight for that extra yard. Plus he is a terrible run blocker. Gaffney and Armstrong are better than him IMO.

astrofan
02-14-2005, 09:25 PM
I would rather have BigPlayTrey Haverty for a slot receiver

Youngstown Colt
02-14-2005, 10:47 PM
KJ has a very nice set of hands, and I can't say that I see any problem with him being your slot guy or maybe a #2. True he won't block, thats why he was cut from cleveland. But I never saw this pinkston problem, and I seriously think you are blowing it out of proportion

ArlingtonTexan
02-14-2005, 11:29 PM
Clarence Moore was getting most of the starts at #2 the second half of the season so I'm not sure if that's a function of KJ's skills eroding, his attitude (due to Billick's system), his work ethic or what. All of the above would be red flags to me.

His next team will be his 4th in 3 seasons so that's not a good sign. If he's willing to give up $$$ to get on a winner immediately, he may be feeling that he's on the downside and wants to go somewhere (like Philly) where he has a legit shot at a ring. If that's the case it doesn't seem likely that he would want to come here, even with the Palmer factor.

May have more to do with Moore. while not consistent he was a tough red-zone match up and score at least 4 TDS in a relative small amount of playing time.

texanfan2002114
02-14-2005, 11:57 PM
KJ numbers have started to go down after his 1000 yard season and on top of that he is injury prone!! I would rather draft Mike Williams from USC or Edwards from Mich. before I would sign Ravens leftovers!!

Vinny
02-15-2005, 12:12 AM
I'd say the odds are slim and none that we take a WR with our first pick.

bckey
02-15-2005, 01:33 AM
I'd say the odds are slim and none that we take a WR with our first pick.


Totally agree. I believe it will be a defensive player in round 1 (bpa).

Ibar_Harry
02-15-2005, 02:57 AM
Everyone says he knows Palmer's offense and my retort to that is WHAT OFFENSE? What good is a receiver with no O-line. That sounds like the cart before the horse to me. Yes, I remain critical of the whole process, because without improvement in the O-line you can kiss the whole season good bye. I've seen nothing yet which tells me that problem is fixed. I just don't believe the offseason with no pickups will somehow yield an O-line. I would hope the focus would be on that as the 1st priority. Yes, AJ caught as many passes for us as he did in the ProBowl, but I would say if there is a portion of this team where we have depth is at the receiver positions, but not at TE. BJ might come through, but only the good lord knows the answer to that one. Sounds to me like everyone is fishing including Vinny. Don't get me wrong he wants the best for the ball club, but I'm not certain even management knows what's best for this ball club.

infantrycak
02-15-2005, 09:38 AM
Yes, I remain critical of the whole process, because without improvement in the O-line you can kiss the whole season good bye. I've seen nothing yet which tells me that problem is fixed.

Wow, you mean before the start of free agency and before the draft the Texans haven't done anything to address fixing the OL? Shocking--fire them all.

TheOgre
02-15-2005, 09:57 AM
KJ was Cleveland's most productive receiver his first 4 years. He had an attitude problem that got him chased out.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-15-2005, 10:12 AM
Of all the teams in the league to look at for a #2 receiver, you guys choose the Ravens. lol

TheTim5125
02-15-2005, 12:49 PM
I don't like the idea of him becominga Texan as stated before he is pretty overated... i could probably haul in 40-60 catches which i guess is okay but not for a number 2 guy....

aj.
02-15-2005, 01:02 PM
KJ was Cleveland's most productive receiver his first 4 years. He had an attitude problem that got him chased out.

An attitude problem per Butch Davis who said KJ wasn't willing to put in the work he felt was neccesary to become a better receiver. Maybe you take that with a grain of salt because KJ wasn't one of Butch's guys and other forces may have been at work. But when you add in his less than stellar season last year and his inability to hold down the #2 slot at Baltimore (which he should have easily done if he was the sh*t that he thinks he is), plus his request to give up whatever $$$ to play for a winner and you start to wonder what's going on between the ears. First it was Butch accusing him of work ethic issues, now he's in a system that doesn't suit him for whatever reason. His next team will be his 4th in 3 years and the common denominator all along has been KJ. Maybe it hasn't hit him yet that he's never going to be the man again like he was at Cleveland for two or three seasons.

Vinny
02-15-2005, 01:55 PM
The Browns fans are discussing (http://dawgtalk.clevelandbrowns.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=959054&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1) a possible return of KJ if any of you are interested. The new Browns GM, Phil Savage was the guy to bring KJ into the Ravens organization so the rumors are hopping in Cleveland. This is probably a more likely scenario...at least a more likely rumor than to Houston.

edo783
02-15-2005, 06:25 PM
I think this is another instance of "Just say No". To much risk and not enough upside.

TexansTrueFan
02-15-2005, 07:40 PM
This may come as a shock to you but I watch quite a bit of football.
haha sorry just had to say that was funny, wow vinny ya have a lil since of humor, very impressive :shocked

Vinny
02-15-2005, 07:44 PM
I'm pretty sarcastic and dry by nature...and it doesn't come across well on message boards. I'm working on it. :thud:

Ranger
02-15-2005, 10:59 PM
How are you going to critize a guy for not being productive in the Raven's passing game? I mean I didn't even know they had a passing game. Thats like critizing a RB for not being productive in Texas Tech's running game.

I think this guy could do the job.....I mean his numbers have gone done, but for good reasons. He is not a big name WR, and we probably won't bring in a big name WR into this offense anyway. He's been in this offense before, and been productive in it, and that was with Tim Couch throwing him the ball. Where is he now?

Can't take a WR with the #1? I think its a good possibilty. I mean, heck wouldn't you love to see Mike Williams and AJ on two sides of the feild? Yeah Mike Williams doesn't have the speed, but AJ can make up for what Mike doesn't have. Mike is a big target to be used in Red Zone and short yardage plays, and wouldn't you love to see him run that play were the WR just turns at the snap without going anywhere and catching the ball and running because the corner is off of him? I bet he would run over some CBs easily.

If you don't like the OLine as it is now.......well thats to bad because thats the way it will be next year. The only "improving" it will be doing is another NFL offseason under its belt and another year in the system.

Andre Carr
02-16-2005, 01:33 AM
I've never been impressed by the guy myself .

M@DD Mike
02-17-2005, 12:38 PM
Kevin Johnson sucks. He should play for Dallas

Blake
02-17-2005, 12:52 PM
There is always David Patten, or Joey Galloway.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
02-17-2005, 12:58 PM
David Givens or TJ Houshmanzadeh are much better options than Kevin Johnson

TexansTrueFan
02-17-2005, 12:59 PM
we all remember the last ravens reciever we got J. Lewis,,,so no i dont want him.

DoCt3rJ
02-18-2005, 08:10 PM
I think alot of you are under-estimating him. He could come here and be a good #2 for us, ofcourse, I'd pick TJ and Givens over him.