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MannyFresh
09-22-2009, 09:18 AM
NFL has no business being in Jacksonville - Yahoo Sports Dan Wetzel

It was a fine afternoon for football Sunday in Jacksonville and 46,520 fans (actually, probably less) showed up to rattle around the city’s Municipal Stadium for the Jaguars’ home opener. The stadium, which hasn’t had a name-rights deal in two years, can seat over 76,000. The Jags long ago gave up on that number, and in an effort to avoid television blackouts they covered up sections to cut capacity to 66,066.

They still didn’t come close to selling out.

They’ve publicly stated there is no hope for filling the joint for a single game the entire season. They aren’t even blaming the fact they’re coming off a 5-11 campaign.

“Even if we made the playoffs last year, we’d still be in this situation,” Bill Prescott, the team’s CFO, told the Florida Times-Union. He went on to claim that based on playoff appearances in two of the last four years, the postseason is worth only a 5 percent bump in sales.

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This is all the economy’s fault, Prescott maintained.

If that’s true, then the NFL’s grand small-market experiment hatched in 1995 is all but over. Jacksonville as a viable professional sports market isn’t going to end well. Eventually everyone will have to admit it.

No one is blaming fans for staying home. Even with discounted tickets and generous package rates, attending a pro sports event is an expensive and time-consuming proposition. You can be the most loyal fan in the world and never go to a game. Jaguar fans shouldn’t apologize for saving money for something more important than football.

Still, a market that can truly support professional sports has enough people who either can afford it or simply won’t live without it. Every town will support a new team or a big winner. The truth comes not in good times but, like now, bad.

Jacksonville is struggling. The unemployment rate is 10.5 percent, according to the U.S. Department of Labor, and like much of Florida foreclosures are high.

Yet by any known economic metric, what Jacksonville calls a disaster would be considered a renaissance in Detroit. The City of Detroit’s unemployment rate is nearly 27 percent; the metro area checks in at 17.7.

While the Jaguars weren’t good last year and dropped to 0-2 with a listless 31-17 loss to Arizona, the Lions are in the middle of a 19-game losing streak and have won just a single playoff game in 51 seasons.

And still Detroit sold out its opener at Ford Field, capacity 65,000.

It’s a numbers game. Metro Detroit has a population of nearly five million; Jacksonville just 1.3 million. Metro Detroit has 17 Fortune 500 companies that can buy luxury suites and bulk tickets. Jacksonville has just two and none in the top 200.

So even though the Jaguars have no other major pro teams to compete against, it struggles. The Lions go against franchises – successful ones – in MLB, the NBA and the NHL, plus, like Jacksonville, two nearby major college programs. Even in a crippling economy, though, there’s enough money to go around.

Jacksonville was a bold gamble that didn’t make sense in the best of times. Green Bay is the only NFL market that’s smaller, but with its history and public ownership, it’s really the team of the entire state of Wisconsin (population 5.3 million).


Florida already had two long-established NFL franchises, though, when the Jaguars were created in 1995. There never seemed to be a big enough base to make this work.

Television blackouts caused by non-capacity stadiums are going to be an issue across the country this year. Only 20 of 32 teams have presently sold out the season. Still, everyone else filled the stands for their home opener.

Jacksonville barely got to 70 percent of its rigged lower “capacity.”

The franchise, the NFL and the city have all poured tremendous resources into making this work. The stadium is fresh, modern and located conveniently downtown. The team has been a success, with six playoff appearances in 14 seasons. In an effort to help boost the league’s appeal in the region, the NFL even staged a Super Bowl there in the face of loud criticism for putting the big game in a small city.

None of it has worked, at least not enough.

The Jaguars have dropped ticket prices, marketed relentlessly and tried to create value at concession stands. The city’s mayor has called on area businesses to help. The players have even made appeals.

And still there were officially 20,000 empty seats, although independent media accounts estimated that number at closer to 30,000.

In a sign of desperation, team owner Wayne Weaver even told the Associated Press that he’d consider drafting University of Florida quarterback Tim Tebow next year to help with ticket sales.

“Star power is incredible, and Tebow is an iconic figure,” Weaver said.

That’s a gimmick that’s rarely worked for pro teams and speaks to a backward way of running a franchise. You draft (and play) Tebow if your football people think he can win games, period.

There was a time in the 1980s and ’90s when the profession of sports marketing was new and hot. It created a false sense a team could offset basic business realities. Anything was deemed possible, everything saleable.

So the NFL set up shop in a small, sleepy city and let Los Angeles go without a team. In hockey, the NHL pulled teams out of Canada and expanded across the Sun Belt, only to now find at least a half-dozen franchises in serious trouble.

It turns out sometimes you can’t market the impossible. Not enough people in the South want to watch a hockey game. Not enough people live in Jacksonville to support a big NFL franchise through thick and thin.

No one wants to see the franchise fail and no one is publicly saying it has or will. Weaver hasn’t expressed plans to sell.

However, while there’s a loyal fan base of Jaguar fans, what’s the attendance going to be by season’s end, especially if the 0-2 team continues to sink?

And how do you increase interest for next year if half the games aren’t on television?

If the only thing that can fill the seats in Jacksonville is a roaring economy and a Super Bowl-contending team, then how long into the inevitable economic downturns will it take before everyone admits the obvious?

GP
09-22-2009, 09:47 AM
There was some pre-season hype for MJD, and how this was going to be his breakout year now that Fred Taylor was gone. MJD himself said it would be.

I steered waaayyyy clear of MJD in my FFL draft.

Rule one of FFL: Do NOT draft a good player on a bad team. Sure, Calvin Johnson is good. But what's around him, and what's the best that the team could hope to accomplish coming of an 0-16 year?

I stick with guys who are on productive teams. Even Andre Johnson can find 50 or 60 yards on a bad day. With teams like Detroit and Jax, you're asking for headaches when you grab their players.

That Jax team would be selling lots more tickets if they were good. If they were on fire, or if they suddenly rattle off 9-straight wins and look like contenders, then people will return.

Seems like the people of Jacksonville are smart consumers: If they don't like the product, they won't buy it. And this forces the owner to take a long hard look at possibly shaking up his team's coaching staff. I have a feeling that the Jags will do the following: Fire Del Rio by end of season, have the first or second pick in the draft (maybe 3rd or 4th, depending on their finish), and draft the local hero Tim Tebow and pair him up with a head coach who can utilize Tebow's strengths as a running QB.

There would have to be a replacement team to put in the AFC South if the Jags ceased to exist. I bet L.A. will be that team.

GuerillaBlack
09-22-2009, 10:47 AM
Maaaaaan, Calvin Johnson was money last year on an 0-16 team, lol. Kevin Smith wasn't bad either. You can find productive players on bad teams. I'm sure back in the day, Dominic Davis and the young AJ were hot commodities in fantasy football.

And I don't think the Jags would cease to exist. Just be moved to Los Angeles under the same name and still be in our division. Technically, LA is in the South (if you draw a straight line or something). Just flights out that way would be brutal. Though, Houston to Indy and Houston to LA may not be that big of a difference....flight wise.

Blazing Arrow
09-22-2009, 10:57 AM
Calvin Johnson just got a DUI ... I guess 18 losses in a row will do that.

GuerillaBlack
09-22-2009, 11:19 AM
I don't blame Calvin Johnson for that DUI. He plays for the Detroit Lions.

Hervoyel
09-22-2009, 11:54 AM
There was some pre-season hype for MJD, and how this was going to be his breakout year now that Fred Taylor was gone. MJD himself said it would be.

I steered waaayyyy clear of MJD in my FFL draft.

Rule one of FFL: Do NOT draft a good player on a bad team. Sure, Calvin Johnson is good. But what's around him, and what's the best that the team could hope to accomplish coming of an 0-16 year?

I stick with guys who are on productive teams. Even Andre Johnson can find 50 or 60 yards on a bad day. With teams like Detroit and Jax, you're asking for headaches when you grab their players.

That Jax team would be selling lots more tickets if they were good. If they were on fire, or if they suddenly rattle off 9-straight wins and look like contenders, then people will return.

Seems like the people of Jacksonville are smart consumers: If they don't like the product, they won't buy it. And this forces the owner to take a long hard look at possibly shaking up his team's coaching staff. I have a feeling that the Jags will do the following: Fire Del Rio by end of season, have the first or second pick in the draft (maybe 3rd or 4th, depending on their finish), and draft the local hero Tim Tebow and pair him up with a head coach who can utilize Tebow's strengths as a running QB.

There would have to be a replacement team to put in the AFC South if the Jags ceased to exist. I bet L.A. will be that team.

I wonder if the NFL has considered a franchise "shuffle". St. Louis is I think dealing with the Rams possibly taking flight. They're gone in 2011 I bet and when they do St. Louis will have a nice empty stadium sitting there and a market that's clearly big enough to support an NFL team (unlike Jacksonville). The Jags were originally expected to be awarded to St. Louis and it came as a bit of a surprise when Jacksonville won the team.

I think it would be perfect if they finally ended up where they probably should have gone to begin with while the Rams return to the city they never should have left in the first place. I would really enjoy seeing the return of the Los Angelas Rams. It would offset having to get used to the St. Louis Jaguars.

Hookem Horns
09-22-2009, 12:29 PM
Too bad Bud didn't make that deal and move the Oilers to Jacksonville in the late 80's. Though, if the Titans really start to struggle and tear off a bunch a losing seasons in a row I think you will have the same issue in Nashville since it is a small market also.

I also wonder about the Cowboys. Since Jerrah made such a large stadium with a huge capacity he is going to have a lot of seats to fill. When the Cowboys are losing the fans up there tend to start disappearing. I wonder just how many seats he has to fill before it is considered a sell out? I know they had over 105K at the Giants game. Obviously some of that were those standing room only seats.

LonerATO
09-22-2009, 02:19 PM
There was some pre-season hype for MJD, and how this was going to be his breakout year now that Fred Taylor was gone. MJD himself said it would be.

I steered waaayyyy clear of MJD in my FFL draft.

Rule one of FFL: Do NOT draft a good player on a bad team. Sure, Calvin Johnson is good. But what's around him, and what's the best that the team could hope to accomplish coming of an 0-16 year?

I stick with guys who are on productive teams. Even Andre Johnson can find 50 or 60 yards on a bad day. With teams like Detroit and Jax, you're asking for headaches when you grab their players.

That Jax team would be selling lots more tickets if they were good. If they were on fire, or if they suddenly rattle off 9-straight wins and look like contenders, then people will return.

Seems like the people of Jacksonville are smart consumers: If they don't like the product, they won't buy it. And this forces the owner to take a long hard look at possibly shaking up his team's coaching staff. I have a feeling that the Jags will do the following: Fire Del Rio by end of season, have the first or second pick in the draft (maybe 3rd or 4th, depending on their finish), and draft the local hero Tim Tebow and pair him up with a head coach who can utilize Tebow's strengths as a running QB.

There would have to be a replacement team to put in the AFC South if the Jags ceased to exist. I bet L.A. will be that team.

I dont see how a team in L.A. could be in the AFC South, but hey Indy is here and they are not a southern team. I would love for the NFL to move teams around to make it seem geographically logical

mootini
09-22-2009, 03:09 PM
Yes, It's that bad in J'ville!!! I'll support to the bitter end....If the Jags leave Jax, do you guys still wear the battle red uni's?

JCTexan
09-22-2009, 03:20 PM
Yes, It's that bad in J'ville!!! I'll support to the bitter end....If the Jags leave Jax, do you guys still wear the battle red uni's?

I know the Texans are going to wear the battle red uni's against the Titans on MNF. They will probably just find a different team to wear them against if jville left town, or if the Jaguars stay in the division they could just keep it against them.

Double Barrel
09-22-2009, 03:48 PM
Yes, It's that bad in J'ville!!! I'll support to the bitter end....If the Jags leave Jax, do you guys still wear the battle red uni's?


You'll see the battle red unis this week against your team. The Texans wear them twice a year now.:texflag:

gtexan02
09-22-2009, 04:10 PM
Its kind of sad :(

Kulluminatii
09-22-2009, 11:57 PM
I would love for a team to move back to L.A. Although not sure I'd like the sound of "LA Jags", or even "LA Rams" if they were to move back.

Not sure if any of you guys have seen this, but plans are in place to build a stadium and bring a team back to L.A.

http://www.losangelesfootballstadium.com/

So, I'd say within the next 5 years or so, expect a team to be moving soon:doot:.

The Stadium would take 2 years to complete and the first season in the Stadium could be 2011.

euro-Texan
09-23-2009, 03:53 PM
I just happen to live an hour outside of Jacksonville, so I have a little knowledge of the situation. First and foremost, I feel sorry for the Jag die-hards. Unfortunatly they make up about 1/3 of the stadium seating.

They support their team, thick and thin. The rest of the town is more focused on Florida Gator football and the left turn club (nascar). While I still have not been able to make it through a nascar race withough falling alseep, I enjoy college football as well as the NFL. Right now, The Gators are putting a better product on the table than the Jags are, but these tides will turn. This is why I feel sorry for the Jag's fanbase. Once this team leave there is a ZERO percent chance that another will come back to this city. This is there one shot and they are letting it slip through their hands.

The team has has reduced it''s stadium seating and prices yet less and less people show up. As far as saying the fans are smart because they should only show up for a quality product, well that will backfire on them once the team packs up the bus and leaves town.

It is nice to know I can catch one Texans game a year without having to buy plane tickets, but if the JAX mindset doesn't change very soon the Jags will be playing their home games in LA, Vegas, Mexico City, or San Antonio. although

Texaninlild
09-23-2009, 04:05 PM
I am trying to figure out why the state of Florida has 3 teams and Texas 2? The geriatrics have a hard time making it out. The parking lot must consist of half handicapped parking. I can say this because I have a placard....damned if I could find parking there. Must be like Cracker Barrel 24/7, no handicap spots left.

Kulluminatii
09-23-2009, 04:12 PM
Its obvious that Florida is not big enough to support three NFL teams, plus a very popular college team. If they were to move, which is almost inevitable at this point, I would guess that L.A. and possibly San Antonio would be the most obvious choices. I've been hearing about a NFL team in London...but that has failure written all over it, so I'm hoping its just a rumor.

texanmojo
09-23-2009, 04:14 PM
I would love for a team to move back to L.A. Although not sure I'd like the sound of "LA Jags", or even "LA Rams" if they were to move back.

Not sure if any of you guys have seen this, but plans are in place to build a stadium and bring a team back to L.A.

http://www.losangelesfootballstadium.com/

So, I'd say within the next 5 years or so, expect a team to be moving soon:doot:.

That's a good looking facilty. I hope that the LA area can get it together as I really would like to see a team back there. I hope the build it and they get a team.

texanmojo
09-23-2009, 04:19 PM
I've been hearing about a NFL team in London...but that has failure written all over it, so I'm hoping its just a rumor.

A team in London is not likely to materialize as it would be a scheduling nightmare. Not to mention an overseas flight for each away game for a London team would be absolutely BRUTAL.

I know SA would love to have a team...but I can promise that Jerry and Bob would likely veto any expansion there as it would dilute the fan bases of the teams we have now.

LA is the most logical spot as there aren't enough big cities left available that can support an NFL franchise.

gwallaia
09-23-2009, 04:21 PM
I am trying to figure out why the state of Florida has 3 teams and Texas 2?

I am trying to figure out why the state of Tennessee has 1 team.

Texecutioner
09-23-2009, 04:21 PM
There was some pre-season hype for MJD, and how this was going to be his breakout year now that Fred Taylor was gone. MJD himself said it would be.

I steered waaayyyy clear of MJD in my FFL draft.

Rule one of FFL: Do NOT draft a good player on a bad team. Sure, Calvin Johnson is good. But what's around him, and what's the best that the team could hope to accomplish coming of an 0-16 year?

I stick with guys who are on productive teams. Even Andre Johnson can find 50 or 60 yards on a bad day. With teams like Detroit and Jax, you're asking for headaches when you grab their players.

That Jax team would be selling lots more tickets if they were good. If they were on fire, or if they suddenly rattle off 9-straight wins and look like contenders, then people will return.

Seems like the people of Jacksonville are smart consumers: If they don't like the product, they won't buy it. And this forces the owner to take a long hard look at possibly shaking up his team's coaching staff. I have a feeling that the Jags will do the following: Fire Del Rio by end of season, have the first or second pick in the draft (maybe 3rd or 4th, depending on their finish), and draft the local hero Tim Tebow and pair him up with a head coach who can utilize Tebow's strengths as a running QB.

There would have to be a replacement team to put in the AFC South if the Jags ceased to exist. I bet L.A. will be that team.

A lot of what you're saying is true, but that is pretty much everyone's theory in fantasy football, and everyone simply isn't going to get the studs on great offenses. At some point in the draft you're going to have to choose guys that aren't in what seems like a great offense, but there are always quite a few players that are the Gems of an awful team.

Like GB mentioned CJ was great last season on an 0-16 team.

Fitzgerald has been great every year and so has Bolden and they've only had one winning season since both of them have been there, but they've still produced.

Certain RB's on poor teams can still put up the points as well.

MJD will be a stud this year at RB for sure. It's inevitable. He gets to many touches in the passing game as well and he's to much of a HR threat.

brakos82
09-23-2009, 04:26 PM
I am trying to figure out why the state of Tennessee has 1 team.

Rumor has it Ohio has 2 teams. But nobody's heard from any of them in 15 years. :thinking:

Kulluminatii
09-23-2009, 04:28 PM
That's a good looking facilty. I hope that the LA area can get it together as I really would like to see a team back there. I hope the build it and they get a team.

To be honest, I would love for the Raiders to move back to L.A. Their stadium in Oakland has to be one of the worst if not the worst stadium in the league. Their contract with Oakland does expire soon(I believe by the end of this year), so the chances of them going back to L.A. are looking pretty good.

gwallaia
09-23-2009, 04:28 PM
Rumor has it Ohio has 2 teams. But nobody's heard from any of them in 15 years. :thinking:

You must not have heard, the Browns moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens.

Hervoyel
09-23-2009, 04:33 PM
Rumor has it Ohio has 2 teams. But nobody's heard from any of them in 15 years. :thinking:


YOU LIE!

No, seriously I'm sure you said that with the best of intentions. A lot of people believe there are two teams in Ohio but that's just a myth.

I bet if you look up "Cincinnati Bengals" or "Cleveland Browns" on Snopes they'll have an article about it. Urban Legend all the way.

brakos82
09-23-2009, 04:36 PM
You must not have heard, the Browns moved to Baltimore and became the Ravens.

Maybe that's why nobody's heard from them. :cowboy1:

barrett
09-23-2009, 04:59 PM
I thought the Bengals played in Kentucky.

I don't see them re aligning the league again for many years. I think the geography of the league is hardly relevant anymore other than crossing the country (or planet). We're in the middle of the US (left to right).

Texecutioner
09-23-2009, 05:21 PM
LA Jags coming soon.........

Kulluminatii
09-23-2009, 05:42 PM
LA Jags coming soon.........

No one would support a team called the Los Angeles Jaguars...I doubt they'd keep the same name. If they did...oh boy....

infantrycak
09-23-2009, 06:55 PM
No one would support a team called the Los Angeles Jaguars...I doubt they'd keep the same name. If they did...oh boy....

Folks in LA are that shallow? Never mind, silly question.

And by the way, where are Jaguars and half of LA's population from?

LonerATO
09-23-2009, 07:11 PM
Its obvious that Florida is not big enough to support three NFL teams, plus a very popular college team. If they were to move, which is almost inevitable at this point, I would guess that L.A. and possibly San Antonio would be the most obvious choices. I've been hearing about a NFL team in London...but that has failure written all over it, so I'm hoping its just a rumor.

San Antonio would love to have a team, but the city is actually a poor city that would be able to afford having a franchise here. One other reason it would be hard to have a team here in SA is mainly due to Jerry and the Cowboys. i can tell you this about SA, this town is a freaking Cowboys stronghold and I would also say more fanatic about the Cowboys then even Arlington... cough .... cough I mean Dallas.

Kulluminatii
09-23-2009, 08:48 PM
Folks in LA are that shallow? Never mind, silly question.

And by the way, where are Jaguars and half of LA's population from?

Well...yes and no. The way I see, Rams and Raiders are the only teams that would probably keep the same name *if* one of them came back to LA..since...they've both been there before.

Jaguars isnt really a name that can be placed at any city and it will "click". Kind of like if the Texans moved to LA....:spit: Or when the Tenn. Titans were still the Oilers.


And I don't quite understand your second question that I bolded. A large minority of people in LA are hispanic...if thats what your asking for? Don't see what race has to do with anything :mcnugget:.

infantrycak
09-24-2009, 10:39 AM
Jaguars isnt really a name that can be placed at any city and it will "click". Kind of like if the Texans moved to LA....:spit: Or when the Tenn. Titans were still the Oilers.

That makes no sense. Jaguars and other large animals are used all over the country as mascots even where they aren't found - Eagles, Bears, Lions, Tigers, etc. Texans and Oilers both obviously have a specific local where they make sense.

And I don't quite understand your second question that I bolded. A large minority of people in LA are hispanic...if thats what your asking for? Don't see what race has to do with anything :mcnugget:.

Please, race. I asked where are they from because Jaguars are indigenous to Mexico down through Central America and then about the top half of South America. For half the population of LA Jaguars are a common and familiar image.

euro-Texan
09-24-2009, 11:55 AM
Well...yes and no. The way I see, Rams and Raiders are the only teams that would probably keep the same name *if* one of them came back to LA..since...they've both been there before.

Jaguars isnt really a name that can be placed at any city and it will "click". Kind of like if the Texans moved to LA....:spit: Or when the Tenn. Titans were still the Oilers.


And I don't quite understand your second question that I bolded. A large minority of people in LA are hispanic...if thats what your asking for? Don't see what race has to do with anything :mcnugget:.

LA Lakers, rams ???? I don't see the folks in LA giving a damn what their team is named. Although Mexico City Jaguars has a ring to it and I beleive the sold out a preseason game two or three years ago to the tune of 115k seats in just a few hours. It's been awhile since it was reported, but I remember being blown away at how much support that game got. I doubt a team would actually move their players and such down there, but I could see them playing eight games a year there. It's all about the $ after all.

Hookem Horns
09-24-2009, 11:57 AM
No one would support a team called the Los Angeles Jaguars...I doubt they'd keep the same name. If they did...oh boy....

True, the same thing happened when the Minneapolis Lakers (named after the Great Lakes of that region) moved to LA. Who would support a team called the Los Angeles Lakers? That is just silly.

The Pencil Neck
09-24-2009, 03:11 PM
True, the same thing happened when the Minneapolis Lakers (named after the Great Lakes of that region) moved to LA. Who would support a team called the Los Angeles Lakers? That is just silly.

Utah.

Jazz.

Say no more.

barrett
09-24-2009, 03:20 PM
The Steelers were originally located in Des Moines Iowa. But Pittsburgh has such a killer fan base that the city actually shifted it's booming textile industry to a Steel manufacturing mecca in order to better support their new team. Oddly enough, as it turns out, all they really had to do was flip the bearings on the pin shafts and use larger press rings and the manufacturing plants were transformed overnight.

I'm sure you guys remember reading about this...

Kulluminatii
09-24-2009, 04:55 PM
True, the same thing happened when the Minneapolis Lakers (named after the Great Lakes of that region) moved to LA. Who would support a team called the Los Angeles Lakers? That is just silly.

Haha, you got a point there, can't say much against that. LA Lakers does roll off the tongue quite nicely though, maybe thats why they kept the name?:cool:

Still, I doubt the Jags would retain their name *if* they moved. I would guess that LA would like a team with something that symbolized what LA is all about. LA GangBangers anyone?:sarcasm:

Also, infantrycak, I didn't mean to offend. Just was confused at what you were asking, and the first thing that popped up into my head was what I stated.

MeLoveTexans
09-24-2009, 05:14 PM
I am trying to figure out why the state of Tennessee has 1 team.

Because that's as high as they can count!:whip:

Hookem Horns
09-24-2009, 11:42 PM
Haha, you got a point there, can't say much against that. LA Lakers does roll off the tongue quite nicely though, maybe thats why they kept the name?:cool:

Still, I doubt the Jags would retain their name *if* they moved. I would guess that LA would like a team with something that symbolized what LA is all about. LA GangBangers anyone?:sarcasm:

Also, infantrycak, I didn't mean to offend. Just was confused at what you were asking, and the first thing that popped up into my head was what I stated.

How bout the LA Cougars? Aren't there a lot of cougars walking around LA?

TexansSeminole
09-24-2009, 11:58 PM
I doubt a team moves to Mexico City. They may have had a lot of people for that one game, but what about a whole season? Ten whole seasons? Sure there are 20 million people there but I would be skeptical of the demand sustaining. Just a hunch. Plus the air quality there is just plain terrible. I don't know how many players are going to want to live in Mexico City, and play in terrible breathing conditions all the time.

I can see the Jags moving to LA, or St Louis if the Rams move out to LA.

What other cities do yall think can handle a team? San Antonio? Maybe Alabama as a state?

mexican_texan
09-24-2009, 11:59 PM
I'd say the Vikings are more likely to go to LA, which is unfortunate since they actually have a good team and a good fanbase.

MannyFresh
09-25-2009, 08:56 AM
LA Lakers, rams ???? I don't see the folks in LA giving a damn what their team is named. Although Mexico City Jaguars has a ring to it and I beleive the sold out a preseason game two or three years ago to the tune of 115k seats in just a few hours. It's been awhile since it was reported, but I remember being blown away at how much support that game got. I doubt a team would actually move their players and such down there, but I could see them playing eight games a year there. It's all about the $ after all.


Yeah the NFL isn't moving to Mexico anytime soon...I don't think the NFL wants to deal with the cartel kidnapping, extorting and gunning down its players.

GuerillaBlack
09-25-2009, 09:31 AM
Well...yes and no. The way I see, Rams and Raiders are the only teams that would probably keep the same name *if* one of them came back to LA..since...they've both been there before.

Jaguars isnt really a name that can be placed at any city and it will "click". Kind of like if the Texans moved to LA....:spit: Or when the Tenn. Titans were still the Oilers.


And I don't quite understand your second question that I bolded. A large minority of people in LA are hispanic...if thats what your asking for? Don't see what race has to do with anything :mcnugget:.

Not true. Jaguars would work. Seriously, if Los Angeles has a team called the Lakers (with no lakes), the Jaguars would work.

GuerillaBlack
09-25-2009, 09:37 AM
I doubt a team moves to Mexico City. They may have had a lot of people for that one game, but what about a whole season? Ten whole seasons? Sure there are 20 million people there but I would be skeptical of the demand sustaining. Just a hunch. Plus the air quality there is just plain terrible. I don't know how many players are going to want to live in Mexico City, and play in terrible breathing conditions all the time.

I can see the Jags moving to LA, or St Louis if the Rams move out to LA.

What other cities do yall think can handle a team? San Antonio? Maybe Alabama as a state?

Alabama??? Hell no! lol.

The only cities that could support a team are Los Angeles, Portland, and San Antonio. Portland is actually larger than SA. The thing that's knocking SA is that it's a nice sized metro, but the disposable income is low.

El Tejano
09-25-2009, 09:52 AM
If you watch Apacalypto there is a message in there about a man with a Jaguar coming to Mexico that starts the beginning of the end of the world (or something like that). That alone would be one reason to not have The Jaguars move to Mexico City.

MannyFresh
09-25-2009, 10:16 AM
If you watch Apacalypto there is a message in there about a man with a Jaguar coming to Mexico that starts the beginning of the end of the world (or something like that). That alone would be one reason to not have The Jaguars move to Mexico City.

No that would be the man with the bad toupee named Bud Adams, and he sidekick Jerry Jones.

WWJD
09-25-2009, 11:36 AM
I'd say the Vikings are more likely to go to LA, which is unfortunate since they actually have a good team and a good fanbase.

I'm curious as to why you think this...

they have a good fanbase you say..ok fine. The Jags don't right?

Why would you move a team with fans that actually show up for games as opposed to a team that can't sell out tickets? That doesn't make sense to me.

Is it a stadium issue?

I heard the Vikings mentioned as moving possibly but that was some years ago and now I don't hear that at all about them.

It's always the Jags and now our Raider friend on the board says the Raiders may move back to LA.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2009, 11:40 AM
I'm curious as to why you think this...

they have a good fanbase you say..ok fine. The Jags don't right?

Why would you move a team with fans that actually show up for games as opposed to a team that can't sell out tickets? That doesn't make sense to me.

Is it a stadium issue?

I heard the Vikings mentioned as moving possibly but that was some years ago and now I don't hear that at all about them.

It's always the Jags and now our Raider friend on the board says the Raiders may move back to LA.


Yup, to the bolded. They still have been unable to get a deal done.

Even your guy, Jerrah is trying to help:

Jones tries to help Vikings get stadium
September 4, 2009 - 8:35pm

By JON KRAWCZYNSKI
AP Sports Writer

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Jerry Jones has something Minnesota Vikings owner Zygi Wilf wants, and it's not just the Super Bowl rings on Jones' fingers.

The Dallas Cowboys owner has opened his brand new, $1.2 billion Cowboys Stadium to rave reviews from everyone but punters this preseason.

Wilf is trying to get public financing help for a new stadium on the site of the current Metrodome, where the Vikings lease is set to expire in 2011. He has had little to no luck so far getting momentum generated from lawmakers, and Jones said the situation is growing more urgent.

"Right now we are subsidizing this market," said Jones, one of the most influential owners in the league. "It's unthinkable to think that you've got the market you've got here, with 3.5 million people, and have teams like Kansas City and Green Bay subsidizing this market. That will stop. That's going to stop. That's called revenue sharing. That's on its way out."

The outdated Metrodome is the biggest reason the Vikings are near the bottom of the league in revenue. That hasn't stopped Wilf from pouring millions into the team on the field, including signing quarterback Brett Favre on Aug. 18 and making Jared Allen the highest-paid defensive player in history.

Wilf is hoping that considerable investment pays off, both with a Super Bowl and a new, retractable roof Metrodome. He's pledged millions to the project, but so far has been unable to come up with public money to help finance it.

"I realize it's a difficult and complex problem," Wilf said before his Vikings faced the Cowboys in the preseason finale on Friday night. "The most important thing is we bring everyone together to try to find a solution."

Jones got public help to build his football palace, and he said a public-private partnership is essential to make it work.

"The leadership have got to recognize that you cannot build one unless you have contributions. You've got to have some help from the public," Jones said. "You've got to have some help from your fans. And you've got to be willing to make a big commitment financially. The Wilfs are doing that."

Zygi Wilf has never threatened to move the team, but Jones said revenue sharing will likely decrease significantly, if not disappear altogether, when the collective bargaining agreement expires after next season.

That means the Vikings would be at a huge financial disadvantage unless they can get a new, revenue-producing stadium built; one that would likely, Jones said, bring a Super Bowl and other major events to the Twin Cities, just as Cowboys Stadium has done for Dallas.

"It doesn't need to happen here in Minnesota," Jones said. "It's too important here for the Minnesota Vikings to just fade away."


(Copyright 2009 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.)
By JON KRAWCZYNSKI
AP Sports Writer

MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Jerry Jones has something Minnesota Vikings owner Zygi Wilf wants, and it's not just the Super Bowl rings on Jones' fingers.

The Dallas Cowboys owner has opened his brand new, $1.2 billion Cowboys Stadium to rave reviews from everyone but punters this preseason.

Wilf is trying to get public financing help for a new stadium on the site of the current Metrodome, where the Vikings lease is set to expire in 2011. He has had little to no luck so far getting momentum generated from lawmakers, and Jones said the situation is growing more urgent.

"Right now we are subsidizing this market," said Jones, one of the most influential owners in the league. "It's unthinkable to think that you've got the market you've got here, with 3.5 million people, and have teams like Kansas City and Green Bay subsidizing this market. That will stop. That's going to stop. That's called revenue sharing. That's on its way out."



Link: Jone tries to help Vikings get stadium (http://www.wtop.com/?nid=119&sid=1755871)

WWJD
09-25-2009, 11:42 AM
Yup, to the bolded. They still have been unable to get a deal done.

Even your guy, Jerrah is trying to help:

OK..that answers that. I thought they were one of the teams that had a new stadium coming up. Thanks.

Strangest name for an owner I've heard...Zygi Wilf?

Texan_Bill
09-25-2009, 11:44 AM
OK..that answers that. I thought they were one of the teams that had a new stadium coming up. Thanks.

I had thought they finally got it done a while back, but I was wrong. They have the design work done, but no funding.

WWJD
09-25-2009, 11:49 AM
I had thought they finally got it done a while back, but I was wrong. They have the design work done, but no funding.

I thought one of those northern teams had a new stadium being built...surely it can't be the Lions?!

There use to be a thread on here ages ago with all the designs for new stadiums in the NFL.

I like the design for the one in LA and I see on MSN's homepage "hurdle cleared for new LA NFL stadium"

Somebody's moving it seems!

mexican_texan
09-25-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm curious as to why you think this...

they have a good fanbase you say..ok fine. The Jags don't right?

Why would you move a team with fans that actually show up for games as opposed to a team that can't sell out tickets? That doesn't make sense to me.

Is it a stadium issue?

I heard the Vikings mentioned as moving possibly but that was some years ago and now I don't hear that at all about them.

It's always the Jags and now our Raider friend on the board says the Raiders may move back to LA.

As Bill said, there's a stadium issue, and quite frankly, the Vikings would do far better in LA than the Jaguars with Adrian Peterson on the team.

About San Antonio: while the city itself isn't huge, Texas is, and it's full of football fans.

WWJD
09-25-2009, 01:05 PM
As Bill said, there's a stadium issue, and quite frankly, the Vikings would do far better in LA than the Jaguars with Adrian Peterson on the team.

About San Antonio: while the city itself isn't huge, Texas is, and it's full of football fans.

Yep. Makes sense with the stadium up in the air. Thanks for answering. I thought they had a new stadium in place.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2009, 01:14 PM
I thought one of those northern teams had a new stadium being built...surely it can't be the Lions?!

There use to be a thread on here ages ago with all the designs for new stadiums in the NFL.

I like the design for the one in LA and I see on MSN's homepage "hurdle cleared for new LA NFL stadium"

Somebody's moving it seems!

I think the Twins have a new baseball only stadium being built. (Could be wrong).

drewmar74
09-25-2009, 01:15 PM
http://www.metlin.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/its-a-tarp.jpg

Couldn't help myself.....

Blake
09-25-2009, 01:45 PM
Poor Walnut.

WWJD
09-25-2009, 01:45 PM
I think the Twins have a new baseball only stadium being built. (Could be wrong).

You're correct. The stadium will be called Target Field..it's very lavish...$500 million plus.

I guess I was just flat out wrong about a new NFL stadium going up in the north....

Thanks to Google.

GuerillaBlack
09-25-2009, 01:56 PM
^^Maybe you were thinking about the University of Minnesota's new football stadium, which was completed not too long ago. It's near Downtown Minneapolis actually.

As Bill said, there's a stadium issue, and quite frankly, the Vikings would do far better in LA than the Jaguars with Adrian Peterson on the team.

About San Antonio: while the city itself isn't huge, Texas is, and it's full of football fans.

I know what should happen.

The Vikings move to LA with Adrian Peterson. The NFL is happy to have the best player in the game in the second largest market. Hurray. Then, the Twin Cities get their crap together and build a new stadium, where the current Jacksonville team moves to.

But divisions would be messed up. lol.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2009, 02:07 PM
You're correct. The stadium will be called Target Field..it's very lavish...$500 million plus.

I guess I was just flat out wrong about a new NFL stadium going up in the north....

Thanks to Google.

An open air stadium in Minneapolis?? *shivers*


^^Maybe you were thinking about the University of Minnesota's new football stadium, which was completed not too long ago. It's near Downtown Minneapolis actually.



Channel surfing last Saturday, I caught part of the Cal v. Minnesota game. I saw the new digs.

El Tejano
09-25-2009, 02:09 PM
^^Maybe you were thinking about the University of Minnesota's new football stadium, which was completed not too long ago. It's near Downtown Minneapolis actually.



I know what should happen.

The Vikings move to LA with Adrian Peterson. The NFL is happy to have the best player in the game in the second largest market. Hurray. Then, the Twin Cities get their crap together and build a new stadium, where the current Jacksonville team moves to.

But divisions would be messed up. lol.

The they would probably put LA in our division and we have to play Adrian Peterson twice.

Blake
09-25-2009, 02:23 PM
The they would probably put LA in our division and we have to play Adrian Peterson twice.

Everyone knows AD is going to break down in 3 years anyways. :P A single player should not be the reason you want an ORGANIZATION.

GuerillaBlack
09-25-2009, 04:47 PM
So, they'd move the Vikings to the AFC El Tejano?

Dan B.
09-25-2009, 06:11 PM
Unless something really off the wall happens, The Bills are gone as soon as Wilson dies. I think they are the first to move.

I think San Antonio + Austin is more than enough fanbase and high income companies to support a team. Whether Jerry and Bob let it happen is something else entirely.

I could also see Portland, OKC (again if Jerry lets it happen), or Toronto. Birmingham isn't completely off the wall (IIRC they were in the running during the last expansion), except for those Sunday blue laws that would cripple an NFL team financially. Also, is there any chance Orlando takes the Jags?

Texan_Bill
09-25-2009, 06:30 PM
Unless something really off the wall happens, The Bills are gone as soon as Wilson dies. I think they are the first to move.

I think San Antonio + Austin is more than enough fanbase and high income companies to support a team. Whether Jerry and Bob let it happen is something else entirely.

I could also see Portland, OKC (again if Jerry lets it happen), or Toronto. Birmingham isn't completely off the wall (IIRC they were in the running during the last expansion), except for those Sunday blue laws that would cripple an NFL team financially. Also, is there any chance Orlando takes the Jags?

I would be concerned with Birmingham:

Birmingham Metro population: 1,198,00
Jacksonville Metro population: 1,313,00

If it's said that San Antonio could not support an NFL team because of lack of Corporate dollars, I would figure about the same thing for Birmingham. I donno though.

FWIW San Antonio's Metro population: 2,031,000

Dan B.
09-25-2009, 06:43 PM
I would be concerned with Birmingham:

Birmingham Metro population: 1,198,00
Jacksonville Metro population: 1,313,00

If it's said that San Antonio could not support an NFL team because of lack of Corporate dollars, I would figure about the same thing for Birmingham. I donno though.

FWIW San Antonio's Metro population: 2,031,000

Well, like I said I think San Antonio is more than large enough. What's going to hold them back isn't the lack of corporate bucks (I think you have to consider Austin and it's high income companies in that calculation) as much as resistance from the Texas owners IMO.

I wouldn't put Birmingham at the top of the list either, just saying it isn't completely unheard of. I could see them getting more support and pulling from a larger area (Mobile, Huntsville) as the only team there rather than Jacksonville's perennial stepchild status. Plus they'd hang onto their "LA" (Lower Alabama) fans in the panhandle (assuming there are any). They would have to do the same thing any city has to, though -- shovel money at the league and rewrite your city's tax code based on vague assurances of consideration as a Super Bowl host one day. On top of that they may have to redo their liquor laws, although they may already have done so.

Los Angeles is the obvious choice. I'd honestly put San Antonio (or rather anywhere on I35 between SA and Austin) right behind them as a viable location. If I could buy a team and put them anywhere I'd pick Honolulu. Yeah it would screw with start times, but they could play late Sundays (which would still be something like 10-11 Hawaii time) or get a lot of night games. I don't think the networks would mind.

If the League would ever man up and admit that gambling is a massive part of football's popularity they'd move to Vegas. It'll never happen though.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2009, 06:51 PM
Well, like I said I think San Antonio is more than large enough. What's going to hold them back isn't the lack of corporate bucks (I think you have to consider Austin and it's high income companies in that calculation) as much as resistance from the Texas owners IMO.

I wouldn't put Birmingham at the top of the list either, just saying it isn't completely unheard of. I could see them getting more support and pulling from a larger area (Mobile, Huntsville) as the only team there rather than Jacksonville's perennial stepchild status. Plus they'd hang onto their "LA" (Lower Alabama) fans in the panhandle (assuming there are any). They would have to do the same thing any city has to, though -- shovel money at the league and rewrite your city's tax code based on vague assurances of consideration as a Super Bowl host one day. On top of that they may have to redo their liquor laws, although they may already have done so.

Los Angeles is the obvious choice. I'd honestly put San Antonio (or rather anywhere on I35 between SA and Austin) right behind them as a viable location. If I could buy a team and put them anywhere I'd pick Honolulu. Yeah it would screw with start times, but they could play late Sundays (which would still be something like 10-11 Hawaii time) or get a lot of night games. I don't think the networks would mind.

If the League would ever man up and admit that gambling is a massive part of football's popularity they'd move to Vegas. It'll never happen though.

I agree with you about a San Antonio / Austin kind of deal.

Also agree about Birmingham in that Mobile and Huntsville would be a source to draw in fans as where Jacksonville is on an island (so to speak). That's what's really killing them. Central and South Florida already have their teams.

I know LA is the more viable situation and the NFL really wants a team there coupled with the fact that they got their stadium deal done. I would just be leary because of their failures in the past. They've lost the Chargers, Raiders and Rams. OUCH!!

LOL about Vegas.

I was just thinking out loud!

Kulluminatii
09-25-2009, 07:06 PM
I know LA is the more viable situation and the NFL really wants a team there coupled with the fact that they got their stadium deal done. I would just be leary because of their failures in the past. They've lost the Chargers, Raiders and Rams. OUCH!!

Well, Chargers only spent their first season in LA. Rams moved due to the enticement of a new stadium, plus then-owner Georgia Frontiere's hometown was St. Louis. And I guess the same could be said for the Raiders, the Coliseum wasn't cutting it.

However, now that the plans have basically been finalized, its almost a given that a team will be in LA. Its kind of ironic, but I've heard that all 3 of the teams listed above may be interested.

Also, for some crazy reason...If the Raiders did not move to LA, I would love the Lions to. Yeah, I know they are owned by Ford, but you never know, in the situation Ford is in, they might sell the team. Los Angeles Lions...that just has a nice ring to it:shades:.

Dan B.
09-25-2009, 07:10 PM
I agree with you about a San Antonio / Austin kind of deal.

Also agree about Birmingham in that Mobile and Huntsville would be a source to draw in fans as where Jacksonville is on an island (so to speak). That's what's really killing them. Central and South Florida already have their teams.

I know LA is the more viable situation and the NFL really wants a team there coupled with the fact that they got their stadium deal done. I would just be leary because of their failures in the past. They've lost the Chargers, Raiders and Rams. OUCH!!

LOL about Vegas.

I was just thinking out loud!

Yeah it just seems like Jacksonville is hemmed in with Atlanta and Tennessee to the North and Tampa/Miami in their own state.

WRT Birmingham pulling from a larger region, I'm not really sure if marketing attempts to pull from a region are effective or not to be honest. Has it really helped in Tennessee or Carolina? It's been my impression that there are Carolina fans in SC and even south Virginia (although that tends to get into Skins Country), but I'm not sure that Tennessee really pulls from much farther than the Nashville region. I could be way off base, but I seem to remember a lot of animosity, mainly from Memphis, at the time. Nowadays it seems like the state's team is still the Vols. Which, let's face it, is the same problem Jacksonville faces and Birmingham is certain to have to wrestle with (even San Antonio/Austin to some extent). A good college football program is basically a professional team in their region. A large enough region can support both, but I'm not so sure that Birmingham or Jacksonville can.

Texan_Bill
09-25-2009, 07:13 PM
Well, Chargers only spent their first season in LA. Rams moved due to the enticement of a new stadium, plus then-owner Georgia Frontiere's hometown was St. Louis. And I guess the same could be said for the Raiders, the Coliseum wasn't cutting it.

However, now that the plans have basically been finalized, its almost a given that a team will be in LA. Its kind of ironic, but I've heard that all 3 of the teams listed above may be interested.

Also, for some crazy reason...If the Raiders did not move to LA, I would love the Lions to. Yeah, I know they are owned by Ford, but you never know, in the situation Ford is in, they might sell the team. Los Angeles Lions...that just has a nice ring to it:shades:.

I threw the Chargers in there for effect ;)

GuerillaBlack
09-28-2009, 03:11 PM
The problem with Birmingham and pretty much all of Alabama is that there is no growth. I think nowadays, the NFL is trying to place teams in growing markets. Not stagnant, or declining ones (like Birmingham is).