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m5kwatts
09-22-2009, 01:07 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6630410.html

Defensive end Antonio Smith didn't start the Tennessee game as punishment for being late to meetings. Tim Bulman took his place.

“Antonio had a couple of issues with responsibil-ities as far as the team, and so I started Tim,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “Antonio played extremely well.”

Asked about the issues, Kubiak said, “Being on time. They all have to follow the team rules.”

mussop
09-22-2009, 01:20 AM
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/6630410.html

I have a feeling this is going to be another one of those signings we regret.

m5kwatts
09-22-2009, 01:22 AM
I have a feeling this is going to be another one of those signings we regret.

Kubiak said he played extremely well?

YellerLotYeller
09-22-2009, 01:27 AM
That sounds about right, another fantastic free agent signing courtesy of the three blind mice. I had high hopes for this pick up in the off season, but there is no room for insubordination on this team. I hate to be quick to judge so harshly, but a "couple" of issues means multiple. Last I checked there are only 2-3 guys on defense that shouldn't be worried about losing their starting jobs on this team. Smith almost lost his cool Sunday against the Titans during a critical series that had me yelling at my TV for him to get back to the huddle. Should have know right there he must be an immature 27 year old.

I say start Barwin now and let him absorb some valuable experience....what's the worst that could happen.

imatexan
09-22-2009, 03:07 AM
Come on guys.

He has played pretty good so far and all he did was miss a few downs, not a big deal!

Brisco_County
09-22-2009, 04:22 AM
Seems like a totally rational criticism, since no one here has probably ever been late to work.

Frank Bush used to work with Smith in Arizona. We would already be aware of any serious character issues.

Silver Oak
09-22-2009, 07:08 AM
non-event. we can beat to death later if it becomes habitual, but I'm still going to enjoy Sunday's win for now.

TimeKiller
09-22-2009, 07:16 AM
I say start Barwin now and let him absorb some valuable experience....what's the worst that could happen.
A 3rd down draw play.

Antonio Smith seems to be earning his :money: from where I sit. I constantly see him in the backfield or making a tackle so I thank the 3 blind mice for making a huge upgrade over one of the biggest problems on :d:

Porky
09-22-2009, 08:03 AM
Barwin is major suckitude right now. He is getting completely washed out of most plays. The tackle just uses his own speed against him by simply riding him far into the backfield. I have yet to see him make a good stop on a running play, at least that I have noticed. I haven't watched closely on every single down, but he seems to have one pass rush move which is just to try and out quick and then outrun the tackle. If that doesn't work, it's over. He has potential, but he is very raw right now.

A Smith looked pretty good at times Sunday. He was better than Weaver for sure. He still needs to be better, but he is an improvement.

buddyboy
09-22-2009, 08:17 AM
That sounds about right, another fantastic free agent signing courtesy of the three blind mice. I had high hopes for this pick up in the off season, but there is no room for insubordination on this team. I hate to be quick to judge so harshly, but a "couple" of issues means multiple. Last I checked there are only 2-3 guys on defense that shouldn't be worried about losing their starting jobs on this team. Smith almost lost his cool Sunday against the Titans during a critical series that had me yelling at my TV for him to get back to the huddle. Should have know right there he must be an immature 27 year old.

I say start Barwin now and let him absorb some valuable experience....what's the worst that could happen.

Says the guy with a Dunta avatar. I'm not saying...I'm just saying...

dalemurphy
09-22-2009, 08:19 AM
A. Smith contributed to that win in Tennessee. He made a really nice inside move and came free on Collins on the 4th and 6 play when Collins threw it to Gage out of bounds. If not for Smith, the Titans probably are in position to score the go ahead TD/FG. He had a few other pressures as well.

HoustonFrog
09-22-2009, 08:28 AM
Isn't this the same guy who was yelling down coaches in camp? He seems to have a little authority problem.

Second Honeymoon
09-22-2009, 08:34 AM
so far he is a JAG. Just Another Guy. hopefully he shows some of the talent that made us sign him to a fat Free Agent deal.

TEXANS84
09-22-2009, 08:35 AM
Well, I know that Anthony Weaver....I'm sorry, Antonio Smith was sick last week so maybe he had some issues getting out of bed.

Kaiser Toro
09-22-2009, 08:40 AM
Frank Bush's boy. Cronyism is a festering disease in the Kubiak regime.

DBCooper
09-22-2009, 08:49 AM
Frank Bush's boy. Cronyism is a festering disease in the Kubiak regime.

awww, c'mon Toro.

Smith is a solid player, not a superstar, but he definitely helps us.

GP
09-22-2009, 08:49 AM
I was in the "Let's wait and see" camp on this signing.

So far, he has made a lot of noise with his words and off-field actions.

Not liking the waves this guy is making.

Mr. White
09-22-2009, 08:49 AM
Says the guy with a Dunta avatar. I'm not saying...I'm just saying...

What did Dunta do that was insubordinate? Not show up to camp when he didn't have a contract?

If it's the shoes, then I'll know for sure that you're joking .

Kaiser Toro
09-22-2009, 08:55 AM
awww, c'mon Toro.

Smith is a solid player, not a superstar, but he definitely helps us.

I want to win, and if Smith can help us that is terrific, but right now we need playoff type play from him or for him to be a workman like professional. Not too much to ask given his salary and "relationship" with the new DC.

Honoring Earl 34
09-22-2009, 08:59 AM
Frank Bush's boy. Cronyism is a festering disease in the Kubiak regime.

No kidding ... they've got more Gibbs than the BeeGees .

Maddict5
09-22-2009, 09:11 AM
can we stop with the 'Antonio Weaver' stuff already? its cute and all but smith has produced more pressure & stops in the run game in two games than weaver did his whole 3 years here

as somebody else said, hes no superstar but hes a good player on our D-line who'll make a couple plays a game

Texan JBZ
09-22-2009, 09:26 AM
Antonio Smith has been pretty solid for the Texans in the run game. I saw him applying pressure a couple of times last game too. He's not played spectacular, but he has been solid and I'll take that any day over what the Texans had last season.

HoustonFrog
09-22-2009, 09:29 AM
can we stop with the 'Antonio Weaver' stuff already? its cute and all but smith has produced more pressure & stops in the run game in two games than weaver did his whole 3 years here

as somebody else said, hes no superstar but hes a good player on our D-line who'll make a couple plays a game

Doesn't sound like a five-year, $35.5 million guy

Maddict5
09-22-2009, 09:34 AM
Doesn't sound like a five-year, $35.5 million guy

thats the nfl for you. weaver was making nearly that much too & he was awful. you have to overpay in FA & we badly needed an upgrade

bigbrewster2000
09-22-2009, 10:07 AM
Doesn't sound like a five-year, $35.5 million guyUnfortunately 35 mil doesnt buy all that much these days. Look at all the other contracts. A 7 mil a year DE is not a highly paid one thats for sure. Middle of the road to higher end. His contract is half the size of Mario's contract and its 3 years newer. Some of you guys really need to get with the times here on contracts.

And you guys can say what you want but he is clearly an upgrade over big Weave any way you slice it.

ChampionTexan
09-22-2009, 10:21 AM
thats the nfl for you. weaver was making nearly that much too & he was awful. you have to overpay in FA & we badly needed an upgrade

According to ITBZ, Smith's 2009 cap number is approx. $800,000 less than Weaver's 2008 cap number (and that doesn't count the $5.4 Million they list as dead money in 2009 for Weaver).

If two games can tell you much (which it can't), Smith will be better than Weaver (although that's not necessarily saying much). It would be nice if those bashing him already would have learned that making judgements on someone based on one game (or even two) demonstrates a lack of understanding about how this game works.

And yeah, I know it's a message board, but if after the first two weeks, the most interesting thing you can find to talk about is A. Smith's relatively average performances, you're just not trying very hard.

HoustonFrog
09-22-2009, 10:24 AM
Unfortunately 35 mil doesnt buy all that much these days. Look at all the other contracts. A 7 mil a year DE is not a highly paid one thats for sure. Middle of the road to higher end. His contract is half the size of Mario's contract and its 3 years newer. Some of you guys really need to get with the times here on contracts.

And you guys can say what you want but he is clearly an upgrade over big Weave any way you slice it.

I understand contracts just fine, thanks! I understand that in NFL money it really might not equate to that much compared to top guys....but overall you are getting the guy to be more than just an average guy on the line. That is why you targeted him after his play in the playoffs. To me that is cash that could be used elsewhere if he is going to be pedestrian and a head case. It seems overpaying in FA is a disease. But its been 2 games..he turned it on last last year.

Marcus
09-22-2009, 10:32 AM
thats the nfl for you. weaver was making nearly that much too & he was awful. you have to overpay in FA & we badly needed an upgrade

Which is the reason why I'm against FA signings, period. You're always going to have to overpay, and the result is always going to be same. A player that's never going to measure up to the contract.

I don't know why more people don't get that.

76Texan
09-22-2009, 10:52 AM
Unfortunately 35 mil doesnt buy all that much these days. Look at all the other contracts. A 7 mil a year DE is not a highly paid one thats for sure. Middle of the road to higher end. His contract is half the size of Mario's contract and its 3 years newer. Some of you guys really need to get with the times here on contracts.

And you guys can say what you want but he is clearly an upgrade over big Weave any way you slice it.

Here's a look at the money:

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/playersbyposition.aspx?pos=136

I'm not ready to bash Antonio Smith yet.
But as I've said since the signing, I will be on his case.

His contract is more than half the size of Mario's, future value accounted for and all. What he got paid for is really good, and so far he's been playing OK, but not worth it.

Bringing up Weaver's dead money doesn't make sense.
It only makes sense to compare when Smith either played out his contract or get traded or cut.

The results of their plays, however, can be compare, even though they are different styles of players, and are used differently.
The ongoing results can be looked at and scrutinized.
He's a vet, he's paid to perform on day one, and so far his performance is a little below the curve.

He's a penetrating guy, and is used as such.
He provides some pressure (could be better), but has been lacking in the running game.

DocBar
09-22-2009, 11:16 AM
As I've said before, it's sooo much more fun to ***** about players after a win.

bigbrewster2000
09-22-2009, 11:50 AM
As I've said before, it's sooo much more fun to ***** about players after a win.

I think bitching about players after a win is stupid. Having concerns about the way someone has been playing when its legitimate is totally fine. And I know its a fine line between what i just said but there is a difference. Either way its really annoying that we have people that cant seem to enjoy a team win for 2 days before the bashing begins and in some instances guys couldnt wait 5 minutes.

m5kwatts
09-22-2009, 12:09 PM
I had a feeling that unless the guy had 4-5 sacks after 2 games, there would be big-time backlash over the signing, although with this teams FA history I don't blame anyone.

imatexan
09-22-2009, 01:14 PM
Which is the reason why I'm against FA signings, period. You're always going to have to overpay, and the result is always going to be same. A player that's never going to measure up to the contract.

I don't know why more people don't get that.

Haha so you never want to sign free agents!?

How are we supposed to create a team?

You cant just draft everyone and have a complete team and trades do not work out often in the NFL.

nero THE zero
09-22-2009, 01:26 PM
He provides some pressure (could be better), but has been lacking in the running game.

That's pretty much his M.O.

It's been said by LZ from day 1 that his run defense isn't as good as you'd think it'd be, but that he's very effective moving inside on passing downs.

Goldensilence
09-22-2009, 05:16 PM
Freaking fantastic.

I love how this organization operates. Late to meetings. Miss starting.

Write on your shoe pay me Rick and put your ego over the team. Handled behind closed doors until Rick Smith jumped over Kubiak with a fine.

Texans obviously have their priorities.

:gun:

ObsiWan
09-22-2009, 05:23 PM
I say start Barwin now and let him absorb some valuable experience....what's the worst that could happen.
Go back and look at the Vid from the Titans' game; you'll see that it was Barwin at DE when Chris Johnson busted that first run. He ran himself out of the play.

m5kwatts
09-22-2009, 05:35 PM
Freaking fantastic.

I love how this organization operates. Late to meetings. Miss starting.

Write on your shoe pay me Rick and put your ego over the team. Handled behind closed doors until Rick Smith jumped over Kubiak with a fine.

Texans obviously have their priorities.

:gun:

I don't see what you're getting at? I think Kubiak has control over this team and its players?

YellerLotYeller
09-22-2009, 05:36 PM
Go back and look at the Vid from the Titans' game; you'll see that it was Barwin at DE when Chris Johnson busted that first run. He ran himself out of the play.


Yea I saw that the OT just slapped him on the back and his own momentum took him out of the play. Even after seeing that his upside has so much more to offer this team.

The adjustments Barwin needs to make will come with experience on the field. I mean what's the worst that could happen.....we become last in league in defense? oh wait....

Goldensilence
09-22-2009, 05:50 PM
I don't see what you're getting at? I think Kubiak has control over this team and its players?

I'm saying Antonio Smith is late and gets to sit for a few snaps.

Meanwhile Dunta Robinson's shoe shenanigans earn him a "we'll handle it in the locker room" attitude until Smith puts down a fine several days later after a league uproar.

It's not that I don't think Kubiak has control of the locker room, I just can't help but wonder about the priorities of this staff when it comes to disciplining players.

Re: Barwin.

Remember those of us who said we didn't want to crown him the next big thing during TC? I think some of our doubts are surfacing.

I was so glad when Unger managed to drop to us in the second then was upset when we chose Barwin. Unger btw is now starting at RG in Seattle.

m5kwatts
09-22-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm saying Antonio Smith is late and gets to sit for a few snaps.

Meanwhile Dunta Robinson's shoe shenanigans earn him a "we'll handle it in the locker room" attitude until Smith puts down a fine several days later after a league uproar.

It's not that I don't think Kubiak has control of the locker room, I just can't help but wonder about the priorities of this staff when it comes to disciplining players.



Dunta's situation was less football-related and not irresponsible. Beyond that it had nothing to do with Kubiak or the football team, he was being a smart alec and directed it towards management. Antonio was late to a football-related meeting, thats a slight against Kubiak and the team, thats the point there.

buddyboy
09-22-2009, 06:12 PM
What did Dunta do that was insubordinate? Not show up to camp when he didn't have a contract?

If it's the shoes, then I'll know for sure that you're joking .

Freaking fantastic.

I love how this organization operates. Late to meetings. Miss starting.

Write on your shoe pay me Rick and put your ego over the team. Handled behind closed doors until Rick Smith jumped over Kubiak with a fine.

Texans obviously have their priorities.

:gun:

The original poster mentioned something about Smith being an immature 27 year old, and I can't really think of another player who has exhibited a greater immature stunt than Dunta. Custom making a pair of shoes to passive-aggressively attack your boss for not caving into your demands that he had no reason to give you? Just because your ego demanded that you not only get paid to be a top 10 CB (which you AREN'T, before OR after the injury) but also that you be allowed to go to another team next year (even though you spout how much you love the Texans and the game)

disaacks3
09-22-2009, 06:26 PM
What did Dunta do that was insubordinate? Not show up to camp when he didn't have a contract?

If it's the shoes, then I'll know for sure that you're joking . I guess you missed the (at least) two plays that Dunta could EASILY have been called for a 15-yarder on Sunday? He was by no means ALONE in that stupidity (Leach, A. Smith & others as well), but it still shouldn't have happened.

Which is the reason why I'm against FA signings, period. You're always going to have to overpay, and the result is always going to be same. A player that's never going to measure up to the contract.

I don't know why more people don't get that. We've had MORE than a few busts, but we've had successes TOO. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Go back and look at the Vid from the Titans' game; you'll see that it was Barwin at DE when Chris Johnson busted that first run. He ran himself out of the play. Yep, re-watched it earlier. We did what I've always wanted this team to do when blitzing - we pressed at the line. When we did, it was Barwin's play to make and he whiffed. The downfield blocking was superb and the rest is history. I think Barwin definitely has upside, but it's going to take some time to mold that RAW talent.

FWIW - Cushing looked like he belonged as an NFL starter on almost any team in the NFL. If he keeps improving, he'll look like a pro-bowl starter.

HoustonFrog
09-22-2009, 09:18 PM
I guess you missed the (at least) two plays that Dunta could EASILY have been called for a 15-yarder on Sunday? He was by no means ALONE in that stupidity (Leach, A. Smith & others as well), but it still shouldn't have happened.

We've had MORE than a few busts, but we've had successes TOO. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

Yep, re-watched it earlier. We did what I've always wanted this team to do when blitzing - we pressed at the line. When we did, it was Barwin's play to make and he whiffed. The downfield blocking was superb and the rest is history. I think Barwin definitely has upside, but it's going to take some time to mold that RAW talent.

FWIW - Cushing looked like he belonged as an NFL starter on almost any team in the NFL. If he keeps improving, he'll look like a pro-bowl starter.


Glad you notcied 2. I mentioned this is another thread and someone asked what I was talking about. Both were when the Titans were near midfield and would have put them in at least close to FG range. They were lucky they weren't called.