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Blake
09-20-2009, 05:18 PM
Can we discuss the defenses inability to make the opponent drive down the field and earn the points?

I know that is a priority each week, and we seem to still have a problem giving up big plays. Mostly on run plays up the gut. What is the problem here?

wagonhed
09-20-2009, 05:21 PM
safeties

ChrisG
09-20-2009, 05:27 PM
the problem was the DBs were out of position or sleeping on almost every big play

Marcus
09-20-2009, 06:10 PM
Can we discuss the defenses inability to make the opponent drive down the field and earn the points?

I know that is a priority each week, and we seem to still have a problem giving up big plays. Mostly on run plays up the gut. What is the problem here?

You wanted Frank Bush to have a more aggressive scheme, this is what you get with a more aggressive scheme. Take the good with the bad. The guys on defense are very talented, but also very young and inexperienced. Break down each individual players experience at the pro level, and it's easy to see.

And I'm sick to death of watching a team methodically drive down the field on a read and react defense. Yeah, now they a giving up BIG PLAYs. But that is to be expected. They are also flying to the ball, and producing more 3 and outs.

This defense is going to do nothing but get better.

jaayteetx
09-20-2009, 06:13 PM
not covering players really bugs me, that needs to never happen again!

False Start
09-20-2009, 06:20 PM
I told my brother when we pinned them that deep, that I had a feeling the Tacks were going to score a TD......then it happened. I was so p!$$ed! :headhurts:


On the Chris Johnson TD pass, I just shook my head.


Its definitely something the Texans need to address, and quick.

ATXtexanfan
09-20-2009, 06:21 PM
I think we were trying to wear out chris johnson early, did he have big play in the 4th?

Tailgate
09-20-2009, 06:24 PM
I need to rewatch the game.... But how many times has it been on B. McCains side of the field on those big plays? I remember thinking to myself on a couple different occasions that he is always out of position and being manhandled as the RB shoots right by him.

BattleRedRaider
09-20-2009, 06:25 PM
I think we were trying to wear out chris johnson early, did he have big play in the 4th?

Yes, the Rocky technique. Tire them out early, win in the final round.

Then Schaub takes the microphone and says "IF I CAN CHANGE, AND YOU CAN CHANGE, EVERYBODY CAN CHANGE!"

Marcus
09-20-2009, 06:25 PM
Young, inexperienced, aggressive defenses will give up big plays.

Jackie Chiles
09-20-2009, 06:29 PM
I saw Reeves was inactive today, hopefully he gets in the mix next week. I still think we have the potential to be a few points per game better on D than last year, just have to cut out the mental lapses.

Thorn
09-20-2009, 06:30 PM
We're 1-1, which is more than I thought we'd be before today's game. Our defense gave up some big plays, but so did the Titans defense, which is supposed be much better than ours. That kind of stuff goes both ways.

thunderkyss
09-20-2009, 06:30 PM
How many big plays did we give up?

How many negative plays did we force?

I know it doesn't equal out on the score board, but we'll get better forcing those negative plays, and give up less big plays.

But the Texans are not the only team that gave up big plays today, or last week.

thunderkyss
09-20-2009, 06:31 PM
Our defense gave up some big plays, but so did the Titans defense, which is supposed be much better than ours.

Truth.........

:goodpost:

The Pencil Neck
09-21-2009, 01:48 AM
I told my brother when we pinned them that deep, that I had a feeling the Tacks were going to score a TD......then it happened. I was so p!$$ed! :headhurts:


On the Chris Johnson TD pass, I just shook my head.


Its definitely something the Texans need to address, and quick.


They did.

They took Barber out and put Busing in. Barber busted his assignment on that play. If Johnson had lined up as a RB, Barber was supposed to Blitz. He got so blitz happy that he never checked where Johnson was. He just assumed he was in the backfield.

At least, that's what I take away from Kubiak's comments along with what I saw in the game.

TimeKiller
09-21-2009, 07:39 AM
I guess I'd rather have a combo of big plays given up and big plays made than a :d: that sits back and makes an offense take the 7 yard dink-n-dunk all the way down the field. I like what I see when they make plays, if they can get the unit gelled and not missing assignments (or you know....WHERE a guy is lined up) then I think we'll see the big plays dissappear. If they rachet up the long bombs this :d: is going to get scary!!!!

Texanmike02
09-21-2009, 08:07 AM
I'll give up 2 (I'm willing to bet that no coverage play doesn't happen again) plays a game instead of 5 agonizingly long drives every game. This defense so far has done MORE than its fair share to keep us in the game. If we get our hands on the ball while its in the air, and force bad throws I'm good with it. The difference between this years defense and those in the past is this year's defense gives up one or two long (and I mean long) runs a game, last years defense gave up 9-10 10 yard runs a game. We don't let them hold onto the ball this way and that is an improvement. Do we need to work on a few things, sure. Gap responsibility is a little bit of a problem but when was the last time we saw a team have 15 negative plays?

When Tenn had the ball at the end of the game I was confident we COULD stop them. In the past, if we gave the other team the ball with more than 30 seconds left, I never had confidence that we would stop them.

This team is a work in progress, but at least there is something to progress to. Last year it was just "well we need to figure out a way not to give up 6 yards per play every single play". Now we're worrying about fixing two or three big mental errors in a game. MUCH better.

Mike

silvrhand
09-21-2009, 08:15 AM
They did.

They took Barber out and put Busing in. Barber busted his assignment on that play. If Johnson had lined up as a RB, Barber was supposed to Blitz. He got so blitz happy that he never checked where Johnson was. He just assumed he was in the backfield.

At least, that's what I take away from Kubiak's comments along with what I saw in the game.

Did anyone see ho well Busing did the rest of the game? I'm curious is he made more mistakes, I know he had a dropped interception, but wasn't sure how he played the rest of the game.

thunderkyss
09-21-2009, 09:00 AM
I guess I'd rather have a combo of big plays given up and big plays made than a :d: that sits back and makes an offense take the 7 yard dink-n-dunk all the way down the field. I like what I see when they make plays, if they can get the unit gelled and not missing assignments (or you know....WHERE a guy is lined up) then I think we'll see the big plays dissappear. If they rachet up the long bombs this :d: is going to get scary!!!!

I agree. IT's not like we've been playing like this for 4 years or anything. This is new to the 11 guys on the field, just like it's new for us. in between the big plays, we should all be able to see that we've got what it takes to play this game, at this level.

I don't know that it will take the entire season before the big plays go away. I hope not, but if it does, it does.

This is one of the reasons we show up strong at the end of the season, and play big boi football to finish 8-8. I think this is proof that the heat is on in Houston, and 8-8 isn't enough.


& I like it.

New England gave up big plays, Tennessee gave up big plays, Indianapolis will give up big plays tonight, Pittsburgh gave up big plays.... that's what happens, when you play to win the game. HELLO!!!

http://thm-a04.yimg.com/image/3584674af339e494

cuppacoffee
09-21-2009, 09:09 AM
You wanted Frank Bush to have a more aggressive scheme, this is what you get with a more aggressive scheme. Take the good with the bad. The guys on defense are very talented, but also very young and inexperienced. Break down each individual players experience at the pro level, and it's easy to see.

And I'm sick to death of watching a team methodically drive down the field on a read and react defense. Yeah, now they a giving up BIG PLAYs. But that is to be expected. They are also flying to the ball, and producing more 3 and outs.

This defense is going to do nothing but get better.


My thoughts exactly.

Give em false hope, then take the W home with you.

The guys were flying to the ball and punching back :bat: for a change.

No softness from our guys in this game.




:coffee:

HOU-TEX
09-21-2009, 09:14 AM
Cushing was out of position on the draw play that went for a TD. He had a good game yesterday. If it weren't for that one play, he would've had an awesome game.

Barber was clueless on the non-coverage of CJ. Good grief.

I didn't notice who might've been at fault on the other TD run. I'm going to have to watch it again, but Kubiak mentioned Barber, Cush and McCain all having busted plays so I'll assume it was McCain.

Runner
09-21-2009, 09:30 AM
I'd like to know why the coaches didn't call time out when Chris Johnson was left uncovered.

HOU-TEX
09-21-2009, 09:37 AM
I'd like to know why the coaches didn't call time out when Chris Johnson was left uncovered.

They probably didn't see it either. It was like CJ was the Predator or something. He just kinda blended in with the environment. Inexcusable mistakes by the defense......again.

Blake
09-21-2009, 09:50 AM
They probably didn't see it either. It was like CJ was the Predator or something. He just kinda blended in with the environment. Inexcusable mistakes by the defense......again.

That is a hoot. I saw Titans fans stand up when they saw CJ not covered at the WO spot. Yet our 53 man roster, and 53 man coaching staff didnt see it.

Personally I agree with others that the responsible parties for giving up big plays is bad safety play. Poor angles, and bad recognition. That is definitly our biggest need, even above NT.

Runner
09-21-2009, 09:51 AM
I'd like to know why the coaches didn't call time out when Chris Johnson was left uncovered.

They probably didn't see it either. It was like CJ was the Predator or something. He just kinda blended in with the environment. Inexcusable mistakes by the defense......again.

That's what I figured; it bodes well they didn't, "think they had it covered". However, it was a pretty good game - I hope the coaches got to see most of it. :)

Cjeremy635
09-21-2009, 09:53 AM
They probably didn't see it either. It was like CJ was the Predator or something. He just kinda blended in with the environment. Inexcusable mistakes by the defense......again.

I saw it at home. I was yelling at my wife, "they're not even covering the guy at the bottom of the screen!" Then BAM.....TD. I was pissed and wondering why the staff didn't call a T.O., all I could figure was that they didn't see it either. IIRC, it was on the other side of the field.

HOU-TEX
09-21-2009, 10:00 AM
That's what I figured; it bodes well they didn't, "think they had it covered". However, it was a pretty good game - I hope the coaches got to see most of it. :)

Eh, it was a good game because we got the W. The boneheaded mistakes on defense kinda extinguish the giddiness feelings.

I will say this, it's nice to hear Kubiak finally own up to the inconsistencies of the team. It kinda makes me believe the ship might eventually be righted.

hookinreds
09-21-2009, 10:09 AM
Cushing was out of position on the draw play that went for a TD. He had a good game yesterday. If it weren't for that one play, he would've had an awesome game.


I'd have to see it again, but I thought I remember seeing Cushing get held on that play bigtime and the DB (think it was Quin) was pinned to the outside keeping him completely out of the play.

76Texan
09-21-2009, 10:13 AM
With less than 9 mins to go in the first, we sent the linemen into the gaps;

The Titans ran a draw play to C.J. for a 57yd TD.

The Center got to the next level and took out Cushing. (And NO, Cushing was not held).
The LT (after allowing Barwin to go wide on the weakside) released and took on Barber.

McCain was taken out of commission by the receiver Kenny Britt.

They had 2 reveivers and the TE on the strong side;
we had to leave 2 DBs and Wilson over there.
Demeco also had to make sure everything was OK on that side before he turned his attention over to this side.
By then it was too late!

One of the difference with this PENETRATING defense vs the "suckiness" of Richard Smith's D is right there.
Your D-linemen can penetrate their gaps all day long.
The RB can just go through another gap... good-bye-Columbus, Sayonara, see ya'!

Runner
09-21-2009, 10:16 AM
Eh, it was a good game because we got the W. The boneheaded mistakes on defense kinda extinguish the giddiness feelings.


The offense was a lot of fun to watch.

HOU-TEX
09-21-2009, 10:19 AM
The offense was a lot of fun to watch.

Yes, it was great. Couple that with a decent running game and it'd be darn near impossible to stop.

swtbound07
09-21-2009, 10:25 AM
How many 50+ yard plays do we give up before we draft a safety to be the last line of defense?

76Texan
09-21-2009, 10:31 AM
And don't put the 91-yd draw play on Okoye.
The outside gap was Bulman's responsibility!
The TE brushed across his face and slowed him down, preventing him to get there.

Another great result of this penetrating Defense.
One guy fails to maintain his gap, and it's gone!

You have no LB at the mid level to stop these draw plays.

C.J. used the LG as a shield against Wilson on the next level.

Hooston Texan
09-21-2009, 10:35 AM
On the first TD run, the Titans abused Barwin's pass-rushing aggressiveness as he took himself way out of the play and then McCain let himself get sealed off by Britt. BUT: if your scheme is counting on a very small rookie CB to defeat a block from a big WR in order to prevent a 60-yard TD on 3rd and 19, you need a different scheme. We need to get Jacque Reeves back ASAP.

On the busted coverage, Johnson was lined up next to the Tennessee sideline. Would have been darned near impossible for anyone on our sideline to recognize that. My guess is the coaches' box was screaming for a timeout but we didn't get word in time. You could hear the crowd get excited before the snap. But this play worries me the least--just a freak mental mistake by one player.

On the 91-yard run (I texted a friend after the punt that I was afraid we were about to give up a 99-yard TD; I was off by eight yards), we lost gap control again--but that's why God made safeties: to clean up those kinds of messes.

The concern is not that we surrendered big plays, it was that we surrendered easy big plays. Two draw plays that weren't particularly deceptive and the easiest 70-yard pitch and catch for a TD in the history of professional football.

What does this mean? 1. Chris Johnson is freaking fast. The worst player in the entire league to have these kinds of issues against because he's gone before you know it. 2. We really need help at safety. Still.

Yankee_In_TX
09-21-2009, 10:40 AM
That is a hoot. I saw Titans fans stand up when they saw CJ not covered at the WO spot. Yet our 53 man roster, and 53 man coaching staff didnt see it.

Personally I agree with others that the responsible parties for giving up big plays is bad safety play. Poor angles, and bad recognition. That is definitly our biggest need, even above NT.

Right after that play, I imagined banging my head against the wall, and said 'Taylor Mays, 2010 draft.'

76Texan
09-21-2009, 10:41 AM
You can not blame either safety on these draw plays.
You are asking them to avoid the block to make play on a very elusive runner.
It's a bad strategy!

I don't care if you Eric Berry or Taylor Mays or anybody else back there.
That guy will have to make a great play to prevent those big plays.
It's a recipe for disaster!

Yankee_In_TX
09-21-2009, 10:56 AM
You can not blame either safety on these draw plays.
You are asking them to avoid the block to make play on a very elusive runner.
It's a bad strategy!

I don't care if you Eric Berry or Taylor Mays or anybody else back there.
That guy will have to make a great play to prevent those big plays.
It's a recipe for disaster!

I would hope a top 10 draft pick safety would NOTICE the wide open wide out RB.

Not asking to chase him down, just notice he's there! Which we had 11+42+20sih fail to do :(

76Texan
09-21-2009, 10:57 AM
I would hope a top 10 draft pick safety would NOTICE the wide open wide out RB.

Not asking to chase him down, just notice he's there! Which we had 11+42+20sih fail to do :(

The whole Defense was busy chatting there! :voodoo:

And I was only talking about those draw plays :)=P

hookinreds
09-21-2009, 10:58 AM
Here's a link to the plays in the CJ highlights...I thought Cushing and Quin were held on that 57 yarder in the 1st.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Titans+Texans&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#q=chris+johnson+highlights&hl=en&emb=0

Playoffs
09-21-2009, 11:12 AM
I'd like to hear from (a very ticked-off) Frank Bush regarding those plays.....and how he plans to fix it?

76Texan
09-21-2009, 11:27 AM
Here's a link to the plays in the CJ highlights...I thought Cushing and Quin were held on that 57 yarder in the 1st.

http://video.google.com/videosearch?q=Titans+Texans&hl=en&emb=0&aq=f#q=chris+johnson+highlights&hl=en&emb=0

You might be right. I will have to rewatch the game on the big screen to be sure though!

swtbound07
09-21-2009, 11:49 AM
yes, I expect my safeties to make 90+ yard touchdown saving tackles.
Thats kind of what the word means..at least in my world.

Porky
09-21-2009, 12:24 PM
Why this team continually overlooks the safety position is the most maddening thing I have ever seen. Year after year after year, and the best we can ever come up with is rejects off of other teams with lots of tattos, UDFA's, or 6th rd draft picks. It's right up there with Stonehenge and crop circles. It's like the 3rd biggest mystery of our universe.

And for the love of God, will someone cut Dominque Barber. That guy has no business playing professional football. I thought he was sorry last year when everyone saw some kind of potential in him. I never have seen one thing that leads me to believe he would ever be worthy of even being a decent backup much less a starter. He needs to be sent packing and go sell insurance or something because he SUCKS bigtime.

silvrhand
09-21-2009, 12:24 PM
yes, I expect my safeties to make 90+ yard touchdown saving tackles.
Thats kind of what the word means..at least in my world.

Well to be honest, there are very few safeties in the game that's going to catch Chris Johnson, he's stupid fast. He ran a 4.25 or something in the combine, not many players are that kind of fast. He did this in college and in the NFL, he just flat outruns people.

swtbound07
09-21-2009, 12:26 PM
Well to be honest, there are very few safeties in the game that's going to catch Chris Johnson, he's stupid fast. He ran a 4.25 or something in the combine, not many players are that kind of fast. He did this in college and in the NFL, he just flat outruns people.

in a footrace no, but Taking the proper angles with a 15 yard head start yes. Its not like safeties line up man to man with people.

swtbound07
09-21-2009, 12:27 PM
Why this team continually overlooks the safety position is the most maddening thing I have ever seen. Year after year after year, and the best we can ever come up with is rejects off of other teams with lots of tattos, UDFA's, or 6th rd draft picks. It's right up there with Stonehenge and crop circles. It's like the 3rd biggest mystery of our universe.

And for the love of God, will someone cut Dominque Barber. That guy has no business playing professional football. I thought he was sorry last year when everyone saw some kind of potential in him. I never have seen one thing that leads me to believe he would ever be worthy of even being a decent backup much less a starter. He needs to be sent packing and go sell insurance or something because he SUCKS bigtime.

How do you think I feel? I've been banging the FS drum since the sean taylor draft.

silvrhand
09-21-2009, 01:26 PM
in a footrace no, but Taking the proper angles with a 15 yard head start yes. Its not like safeties line up man to man with people.

Ok.. on the two long runs I just rechecked the video to make sure I was remembering correctly.

1st long draw: (nickel package in)
- #98 Barwin ran himself out the play completely leaving a free OL.
- #56 Cushing got sealed off by the center (WTF?)
- #41 CB lost outside contain on receiver (bad)
- #34 Barber was sealed off by OL that was there to block Barwin
- #59 Ryans coming from the backside was looking for the cutback and took bad angle.

Ultimately this one is just a rash of mistakes that need to be fixed, we should have never been caught with our pants down in nickel coverage to let a guy go 50+ yards. Barwin single handedly took himself out of the play and allowed his OL to get down field and block the safety. Cushing got blocked by the center cause he had a bad read and stepped inside first then outside which the block is close to holding, but not an excuse, he should of never allowed a center to get outside position on him to not allow him to flow to the ball. The CB got sealed off when it's his job to be outside containment, which is bad. Barber the safety dives at the OL feet looks like he's trying to tackle him? I'm not sure what his goal was, but it wasn't to tackle the RB it looked really bad. Demeco was the opposite side of the field and took inside/out flow but decided to head him off too late as he broke outside, he was gone.

The last chance was Eugene Wilson which was getting blocked and probably even if he had the right angle CJ would have scored.

2nd long run: (nickel/man coverage?)
- #93 ran upfield again bit on the draw
- #91 Amobi gets blown out but looks like they were stunting?
- #59 Ryans was blitzing, got sealed off
- #25 Robinson blocked by downfield linemen, CJ makes great move
- #56 Cushing sealed off be center, backside this time so expected.

I'm about half and half on this one did we have a stun/blitz in that basically made this play worse than it looks? Amobie just got blown out of his gap like he was trying to make an inside move on the guard, and then the tackle blocked down on him, which is basically no chance. The DE just ran upfield again leaving a lot of room, and allowing the right guard to pull and turn upfield and block the safety. Cushing got sealed off by the Center which is to be expected.

After that it was a footrace in the middle of the field which noone is going to catch him on our team.

I don't see how a stud safety is going to fix either of those runs cause when you have linemen running free in the secondary, you've got some serious issues.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/tennessee-titans/09000d5d812c389a/WK-2-Chris-Johnson-highlights

76Texan
09-21-2009, 01:45 PM
We sent the D-linemen into the gaps; Barwin did not overrun the play.
It was his assignment to go wide.

The Titans ran a draw play to C.J. for a 57yd TD.

The Center got to the next level and took out Cushing. (And NO, Cushing was not held).
The LT (after allowing Barwin to go wide on the weakside) released and took on Barber.

McCain was taken out of commission by the receiver Kenny Britt.

They had 2 reveivers and the TE on the strong side;
we had to leave 2 DBs and Wilson over there.
Demeco also had to make sure everything was OK on that side before he turned his attention over to this side.
By then it was too late!

One of the difference with this PENETRATING defense vs the "suckiness" of Richard Smith's D is right there.
Your D-linemen can penetrate their gaps all day long.
The RB can just go through another gap... good-bye-Columbus, Sayonara, see ya'!

............

A poster mentioned that Cushing and McCain both were held.

............

And don't put the 91-yd draw play on Okoye.
The outside gap was Bulman's responsibility!
The TE brushed across his face and slowed him down, preventing him to get there.

Another great result of this penetrating Defense.
One guy fails to maintain his gap, and it's gone!

You have no LB at the mid level to stop these draw plays.

C.J. used the LG as a shield against Wilson on the next level.
I don't care if you have Mays or Berry here. They can only go to either side of the LG. Then C.J. can just go to the other side. Unless we expect the safety to bowl over the LG to get to C.J.

silvrhand
09-21-2009, 03:18 PM
We sent the D-linemen into the gaps; Barwin did not overrun the play.
It was his assignment to go wide.

The Titans ran a draw play to C.J. for a 57yd TD.

The Center got to the next level and took out Cushing. (And NO, Cushing was not held).
The LT (after allowing Barwin to go wide on the weakside) released and took on Barber.

McCain was taken out of commission by the receiver Kenny Britt.

They had 2 reveivers and the TE on the strong side;
we had to leave 2 DBs and Wilson over there.
Demeco also had to make sure everything was OK on that side before he turned his attention over to this side.
By then it was too late!

One of the difference with this PENETRATING defense vs the "suckiness" of Richard Smith's D is right there.
Your D-linemen can penetrate their gaps all day long.
The RB can just go through another gap... good-bye-Columbus, Sayonara, see ya'!



Something tells me you aren't a fan of penetrating defenses? I'll agree to disagree on the following points:

- Barwin should have seen the draw earlier, and not been 7 yards upfield before he tried to stop, this WAY out of position even if it was a pass.
- Center should have never been able to get his head across and impede Cushing on progress to the carrier. He misread the play then allowed the center to get across his body.
- CB got sealed off badly, by a rookie on the titans.

That's ultimately it, if Barwin at least makes the Tackle take an extra second, then we probably get the play down, if Cushing would have not allowed the center to get on him, the Tackle would have released to him instead of the safety. If that all happenned and still the CB would not have gotten sealed off hopefully inside out pursuit would have slowed up CJ enough to not blow around the corner at full speed.

The safety, while I agree that if OL are running free in the secondary it's bad news, but his tactic of dealing with the OL was a bit interesting it's like he tried to tackle him or something, I dunno it looked weird.



And don't put the 91-yd draw play on Okoye.
The outside gap was Bulman's responsibility!
The TE brushed across his face and slowed him down, preventing him to get there.

You have no LB at the mid level to stop these draw plays.[/B]



Uh he didn't run the outside gap, it just looked like the outside gap cause Okoye got blown 5 yards to the left leaving a HUGE hole, I don't know now if he was stunting but I doubt he would stunt the same gap as what they are blitzing Ryans up. The guard pulled around and looking for someone to seal off the inside, but noone was there so he releases downfield and as you mentioned picks off the safety, which I agree the safety has no chance in hell here, if he makes the tackle it's cause the RB sucks or he just gets stupid lucky.

Again it just doesn't seem like you are a very big fan of our defensive scheme that we are currently running, but ultimately I think we have seen more negative stops this year than I remember all of the second half of last year.

76Texan
09-21-2009, 03:33 PM
Something tells me you aren't a fan of penetrating defenses? I'll agree to disagree on the following points:

- Barwin should have seen the draw earlier, and not been 7 yards upfield before he tried to stop, this WAY out of position even if it was a pass.
- Center should have never been able to get his head across and impede Cushing on progress to the carrier. He misread the play then allowed the center to get across his body.
- CB got sealed off badly, by a rookie on the titans.

That's ultimately it, if Barwin at least makes the Tackle take an extra second, then we probably get the play down, if Cushing would have not allowed the center to get on him, the Tackle would have released to him instead of the safety. If that all happenned and still the CB would not have gotten sealed off hopefully inside out pursuit would have slowed up CJ enough to not blow around the corner at full speed.

The safety, while I agree that if OL are running free in the secondary it's bad news, but his tactic of dealing with the OL was a bit interesting it's like he tried to tackle him or something, I dunno it looked weird.



All the D-linemen were penetrating the gaps.
Barwin was slapped out of the way by the LT.
But at any rate, I don't see how you can ask a guy to "GO" and also ask him to "READ-and-REACT" at the same time.

Cushing had to decide on which side to go.
I agree with Vinny that his best course of action would have been to turn the runner inside, which was what looks like he started to, but then hesitated.
(It sure looks like he was held and so was McCain.)

We can also say that Demeco's responsibility is the strong side A gap, and therefore, the C.
He was looking at the TE and didn't come up quickly enough to take on the C or at least make the C having to choose on which LB to block.

76Texan
09-21-2009, 03:51 PM
Uh he didn't run the outside gap, it just looked like the outside gap cause Okoye got blown 5 yards to the left leaving a HUGE hole, I don't know now if he was stunting but I doubt he would stunt the same gap as what they are blitzing Ryans up. The guard pulled around and looking for someone to seal off the inside, but noone was there so he releases downfield and as you mentioned picks off the safety, which I agree the safety has no chance in hell here, if he makes the tackle it's cause the RB sucks or he just gets stupid lucky.

Again it just doesn't seem like you are a very big fan of our defensive scheme that we are currently running, but ultimately I think we have seen more negative stops this year than I remember all of the second half of last year.Okoye's responsibility was the strong side B gap, and that's where he went.

Agree that he can be more stout while penetrating.
I don't know if he was stunting, I don't think it was the call.
If we were to clog the middle to force the runner outside, we would have somebody out there to make a play.

But Bulman have got to see that the TE was there.
If he went wide around the TE (which he did), the C gap is wide open.
Again, it was because of the penetrating philosophy.
It would have been better for him to go behind Busing instead.

That run was outside tackle.

silvrhand
09-21-2009, 04:00 PM
Wait wait wait, just cause we are playing a penetrating defense doesn't mean that we don't have a brain. When something is too good to be true that means it is, which means woah hold up maybe something isn't right here. Going 6 yards before you realize that is probably not the best, and ultimately this is what set up the big run allowing the LT to release down the field without having to make a block at all on Barwin.

Sometimes you just gotta know and that second hand nature is what makes a good DL a great one. I think Barwin has all the tools, now to just train his mind and become a great DE.

All the D-linemen were penetrating the gaps.
Barwin was slapped out of the way by the LT.
But at any rate, I don't see how you can ask a guy to "GO" and also ask him to "READ-and-REACT" at the same time.

76Texan
09-21-2009, 04:04 PM
Wait wait wait, just cause we are playing a penetrating defense doesn't mean that we don't have a brain. When something is too good to be true that means it is, which means woah hold up maybe something isn't right here. Going 6 yards before you realize that is probably not the best, and ultimately this is what set up the big run allowing the LT to release down the field without having to make a block at all on Barwin.

Sometimes you just gotta know and that second hand nature is what makes a good DL a great one. I think Barwin has all the tools, now to just train his mind and become a great DE.

The LT slapped him into the backfield.

But I understand your point.
If Barwin was able to get back (and the other players still the same), he migth have a chance to catch CJ from behind???
Maybe limiting him to a 7-10 yd gain? Possibly!
But then again, with that speed, maybe not.

silvrhand
09-21-2009, 04:32 PM
Okoye's responsibility was the strong side B gap, and that's where he went.

Agree that he can be more stout while penetrating.
I don't know if he was stunting, I don't think it was the call.
If we were to clog the middle to force the runner outside, we would have somebody out there to make a play.

But Bulman have got to see that the TE was there.
If he went wide around the TE (which he did), the C gap is wide open.
Again, it was because of the penetrating philosophy.
It would have been better for him to go behind Busing instead.

That run was outside tackle.

I think Amobi got confused and thought they meant the weak B gap? Cause he ended up covering the weak outside gap by the time the right tackle was done shoving him that way. Then the guard was able to swing around with noone to even seal off.. In a perfect world Amoybi gets B gap penetration which stuffs up the left guard pulling and the guard never gets around which helps but not sure how thing fall after that it still leaves CJ one on one with the safety and well I'm not sure our safety is going to make that tackle, but maybe he's got more of a chance than when a guard is out there in front of CJ. I'm not throwing Amobi completely under the bus as you mentioned the DE has a lot of issues here too he should have blasted the TE and run through him instead of around him, it's not Crumpler there.

We also blitzed Demco as well on this which didn't help at all.. :( Also is is me or is our DE split way too far out on that play, he seems about 2 yards split out further than Mario.

76Texan
09-21-2009, 04:40 PM
I think Amobi got confused and thought they meant the weak B gap? Cause he ended up covering the weak outside gap by the time the right tackle was done shoving him that way. Then the guard was able to swing around with noone to even seal off.. In a perfect world Amoybi gets B gap penetration which stuffs up the left guard pulling and the guard never gets around which helps but not sure how thing fall after that it still leaves CJ one on one with the safety and well I'm not sure our safety is going to make that tackle, but maybe he's got more of a chance than when a guard is out there in front of CJ. I'm not throwing Amobi completely under the bus as you mentioned the DE has a lot of issues here too he should have blasted the TE and run through him instead of around him, it's not Crumpler there.

We also blitzed Demco as well on this which didn't help at all.. :( Also is is me or is our DE split way too far out on that play, he seems about 2 yards split out further than Mario.LOL on the bold part!

Agree, Bulman should have bull over the TE.
Usually, Bullman is the bull, but I don't know why he didn't choose to be one!?!

Sometimes we lined up our DE(s) very wide.
I think they do that to assure one-on-one situation(s) for them.

thunderkyss
09-21-2009, 06:15 PM
Ok.. on the two long runs I just rechecked the video to make sure I was remembering correctly.

1st long draw: (nickel package in)

2nd long run: (nickel/man coverage?)
- #93 ran upfield again bit on the draw
- #91 Amobi gets blown out but looks like they were stunting?
- #59 Ryans was blitzing, got sealed off
- #25 Robinson blocked by downfield linemen, CJ makes great move
- #56 Cushing sealed off be center, backside this time so expected.

I'm about half and half on this one did we have a stun/blitz in that basically made this play worse than it looks? Amobie just got blown out of his gap like he was trying to make an inside move on the guard, and then the tackle blocked down on him, which is basically no chance. The DE just ran upfield again leaving a lot of room, and allowing the right guard to pull and turn upfield and block the safety. Cushing got sealed off by the Center which is to be expected.


Great post. Kinda reminds me of Mario's rookie season. There was so much pressure for Mario to get a sack, that all he did, was pin his ears back, and get beat on the reverse, or beat on the PA, or over ran the RB.. because all he thought about, on everyplay.... was get the QB.

When he was at NC State, he wasn't the sack guy, he was the get in the backfield and cause havoc drop the RB for a loss guy. The sacks came late in the year, when the other DLmen & LBs warranted attention, because they were causing so much Havoc.

Mario eventually let it all go, and started to play his game, and the sacks & Tackles for a loss started piling up. IMHO, the best play of the preaseason was a play Mario got into the backfield before the ball did. He went for the QB, only to realize the QB didn't have the ball anymore. The RB ran up the middle, and picked up 6 or 7 yards. Mario looked to the sideline, pointed to his chest, and said "My Fault, I know. My Fault" (reading his lips). Then he went to his crew, and you could see him explaining to his team what he had done.

I said to myself..... "He gets it"

Soon as the rest of the team gets it, we are going to be a Power House in this league......

But if I recall correctly, both were passing downs, hence we were in the Nickel. We went after the QB & got bit. Same thing with Barber on leaving CJ wide open.

I really think we're turning the corner guys.

silvrhand
09-21-2009, 09:52 PM
I said to myself..... "He gets it"

Soon as the rest of the team gets it, we are going to be a Power House in this league......

But if I recall correctly, both were passing downs, hence we were in the Nickel. We went after the QB & got bit. Same thing with Barber on leaving CJ wide open.

I really think we're turning the corner guys.

I'm hoping that in the next two games we get more experience before having to line up with the cardinals, cause that's going to be a rough game for us I have a feeling. I'm optimistic that we should win against the Jags, while the raiders are better than they were last year and we lost to them, so we should not come into that game underestimating them.

That should give us two good games of getting some more mistakes fixed, before we get into the meat of our season. The Dec schedule is really forgiving as well. If we start 3-1 we are going to be in good shape I think, trying to temper expectations but man it's hard after a game like last week where we played with serious heart.

76Texan
09-22-2009, 01:26 PM
Then the guard was able to swing around with noone to even seal off.. In a perfect world Amoybi gets B gap penetration which stuffs up the left guard pullingWe also blitzed Demco as well on this which didn't help at all.. :(

A few more notes:
We had Demeco working to shoot the gap, that was the D-call, I imagine.
The LG pulled to help trap Demeco.
Smith and Cushing were both in position to see this.
There wasn't a whole lot Smith can do here except doing what he did,
which is to get into the gap and push the LT, who shifted and took him on.
Or should he disengage and spun around, knowing that the play will be to the strong side?!? That would be best, IMO.
Cushing should also know this and flow to the outside, instead of going up the middle.
At the least, Cushing needs to work harder to disengage quickly and move to the outside when he saw the middle clamped up and the weakside secured by Mario.
He's the SLB, he needs to flow to that side more readily.

(Like I've said before, sometimes we don't know the intention of our D-play call
and where a guy is supposed to do on a certain play, it can be guesswork.
And also, it can be a good Offensive play call that hit us where it hurts.
Or, it can be an individual effort by a guy like CJ that makes some guys on the D look bad.)

I will put this one equally on Bulman, Okoye. And some, if not as much on Cushing.
Bulman for going too wide on the play and therefore did not contain the outside.
Okoye for letting the LT push him away from play side.
And Cushing for not being able to fulfill his secondary assignment,
which is to flow to the outside when a run is toward his side.