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View Full Version : Texan (’02-‘04 + Vinny) Terrific 12 v. C’boys (’01-04) Terrific 12


Mistril48
02-13-2005, 04:56 PM
Old Posting (new posting below)

In a salary cap regime like the NFL, the value of a player is a function of his performance measured against his cap value. A non-expansion NFL team typically drafts 12 players (the “T12” if you will) in the first 3 rounds over a 4 year period. These 12 players are particularly valuable to a franchise in a salary cap regime, because they typically have much lower cap values than players signed through free agency. For example, Chester Pitts has a 2004 cap value of $705,000, but Steve McKinney has a 2004 cap value of $3,050,000.

Typically, an impact player becomes a free agent after four accrued years and either leaves, or receives his first big free agency contract. Each year, a franchise typically loses 3 first day drafted players to free agency (unless they re-sign the players) and get three replacements through the draft, thereby maintaining their T12 (in some cases, of course, a player drafted to be a T12 player won’t work out and a team may end up with less than 12, or a second day drafted player may excel, like Domanick Davis, thereby creating more than 12). McKinney, Bradford, Wong, Smith and Wade are all examples of four year players who got big raises to come to the Texans for their 5th year.

In the 2002 season, the Texans first year, they only had 5 T12 (1 first, 2 second and 2 third), while all the other teams had 12. Bummer. Unlike the Panthers and the Jaguars, the Texans weren’t given any extra first round picks. Hard to compete.

The good news is the Texans have now caught up, thanks to expansion picks and Charlie Casserly’s astute trades. They now have 12 players who they drafted on the first day. The Texans now have a T12 like other NFL teams. Good.

New Posting

Thanks to the first mock draft and Vinny’s selections, we now have a chance to compare a 4 year Texan (+Vinny) draft versus the last 4 year draft of the other team in Texas?

. . YR . . Texans (4 yrs) . . . . . .. . . YR . C’boys (4 yrs)

F . ’02 . QB David Carr . . . . . . . . . . .’02 DB Roy Williams
I . ’03 . WR Andre Johnson . . . . . . . .’03 CB Terence Newman
R . ’04 . CB Dunta Robinson
S . ’04 . LB Jason Babin
T . ’05 . OL David Baas

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .'01 QB Quincy Carter (released)
S . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ‘01 DB Tony Dixon
E . ’02 . WR Jabar Gaffney . . . . . . . . .‘02 OL Andre Gurode
C . ’02 . OL Chester Pitts . . . . . . . . . ‘02 WR Antonio Bryant (traded)
O . ’03 . TE Benny Joppru . . . . . . . . . ‘03 OL Al Johnson
N . ’04 . RB Tony Hollings . . . . . . . . . ‘04 RB Julius Jones
D . ’05 . DL Chris Canty . . . . . . . . . . .‘04 OL Jacob Rogers
. . .’05 . LB DeMarcus Ware

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ‘01 DT Willie Blade (released)
T . ’02 . OL Fred Weary
H . ’02 . OL Charles Hill (released) . . .‘ 02 DB Derek Ross (released)
I . ’03. . LB Antwan Peek . . . . . . . . . ‘03 TE Jason Witten
R . ’03 . OL Seth Wand
D . ’03 . QB Dave Ragone
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ‘04 OL Stephen Peterson
. . . ’05 . DT Luis Castillo



. . . . . . Texans (only 4 yrs) . . . . . . . . . . C’boys (4 yrs)

. . . . . . QB David Carr . . . . . . . . . . . . . QB Quincy Carter (released)
. . . . . . QB Dave Ragone

. . . . . . RB Tony Hollings . . . . . . . . . . . RB Julius Jones

. . . . . .WR Andre Johnson . . . . . . . . . . WR Antonio Bryant (traded)
. . . . . .WR Jabar Gaffney

. . . . . . TE Benny Joppru . . . . . . . . . . . TE Jason Witten

. . . . . .OL Davis Baas . . . . . . . . . . . . . OL Andre Gurode
. . . . . .OL Chester Pitts . . . . . . . . . . . . OL Al Johnson
. . . . . .OL Seth Wand . . . . . . . . . . . . . OL Stephen Peterson
. . . . . .OL Fred Weary. . . . . . . . . . . . . OL Jacob Rogers


. . . . . .DL Chris Canty. . . . . . . . . . . . . DT Willie Blade (released)
. . . . . .DT Luis Castillo
. . . . . .DL Charles Hill (released)

. . . . . .LB Jason Babin
. . . . . .LB Antwan Peek
. . . . . .LB DeMarcus Ware

. . . . . .CB Dunta Robinson . . . . . . . . . . .DB Roy Williams
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . CB Terence Newman
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DB Tony Dixon
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . DB Derek Ross (released)

Would you trade our players, above, for their players, above?

Vinny
02-13-2005, 05:08 PM
For this you would have to add the Cowboys picks as well...Justin Miller CB, Clemson, Shawne Merriman, DE Maryland, Odell Thurman, LB, Georgia.

Also, my draft is probably a poor reflection of what we will do since I didn't select a QB [/sarcasm]. :heh:

ArlingtonTexan
02-13-2005, 05:24 PM
This is from normhitzges.com..the cowboys have about as bad a 2nd day draft history as one could get

"A study of the last 11 years of Cowboy drafts suggest one could easily make the case for the Pokes being the very worst Day Two drafting team in the entire NFL during this period.

Consider the following table:

Year # of Picks Rounds of Picks Two-year starters
1994 5 4-4-5-6-7 0
1995 6 4-4-4-5-5-7 1
1996 4 5-5-6-7 0
1997 5 4-4-4-6-7 0
1998 7 4-5-5-6-7-7-7 1
1999 5 4-4-6-7-7 1
2000 4 4-5-6-7 1
2001 6 4-5-6-7-7-7 0
2002 5 4-5-6-6-6 0
2003 4 4-6-6-7 0
2004 5 4-5-7-7-7 incomplete

Total Picks: 56
Total #4: 16
Total #5: 11
Total #6: 12
Total #7: 17
Total # who started for at least 2 years here: 4
Total # now starting in the NFL: One
Total # of Pro Bowl appearances: Zero

During this same 11-year period the Cowboys made tons of deals involving Day Two selections. As part of these trades Dallas acquired 11 veteran players:

Elvis Patterson Jim Price
Hugh Millen Kelly Blackwell
John Roper Markus Paul
Roger Harper Jim Schwantz
OJ Santiago Kenyon Coleman
Darian Barnes


Incredible! Part-time starter Barnes now contributes. Schwantz helped on special teams. But again, no solid starters.

Looking over all second day draft choices the last 11 years our list of the five BEST picks is:

CB Mario Edwards
TE Eric Bjornson
LB Darren Hambrick
DT Michael Myers
DE Peppi Zelner

Those are the BEST!!!!

A few others went on to be OK players in other places:

OT Oliver Ross--S Omar Stoutmire--OG Kelvin Garmon

Look back over all this research Day Two for the Cowboys has been nothing short of a disaster. No other NFL team has posted this kind of second day futility. If the Pokes are to climb back up the NFL ladder they must begin producing results in rounds 4-7.

Of the many negatives that have combined to drag the Cowboys down from their pedestal over the last decade the very worst is their dreadful performance on Day Two."

Grid
02-13-2005, 06:38 PM
by comparison

Jonathen Wells
Jarrod Baxter
DeMarcus Faggins
Domanick Davis
Drew Henson
Glen Earl


all 2nd day picks for us. Sloan Thomas, Charlie Anderson, and B.J. Symons are all second day picks as well.. though we dont know how they are going to turn out yet.

Mistril48
02-14-2005, 04:44 PM
For this you would have to add the Cowboys picks as well...Actually, no. I used actual C'boy picks for the last 4 year period, versus the Texans actual 3 years, plus your picks. If you added the C'boys, they would have 5 years.

I guess you feel that the C'boys 4 year draft feels like they missed a year.

Vinny
02-14-2005, 05:45 PM
I just figured if you were going to use my imaginary picks you would use the Cowboys imaginary picks and drop off the 5th year back to be fair. That's all.

beerlover
02-14-2005, 06:03 PM
I just figured if you were going to use my imaginary picks you would use the Cowboys imaginary picks and drop off the 5th year back to be fair. That's all.

I agree with Vinny, to be fair use this years HoustonTexans.Com Mock draft for both teams, remove that 01 season instead for those boyz, lets be fair. Also would like to commend both Vinny & Hoth-boy for better picking than their professional counterparts. for the most part the particpants in our little Mock exercise rocked, both the Texans and Cowboys drafts are excellent. :howdy:

Mistril48
02-16-2005, 12:17 AM
I just figured if you were going to use my imaginary picks you would use the Cowboys imaginary picks and drop off the 5th year back to be fair. That's all.... I find it is interesting that you feel it is fairer to hold the C'boys accountable to the imaginary picks this year of Hothboy (please, I'm not passing any disparaging remarks on his draft effort) rather than their actual picks in 2001. I know why we don't use the Texans 2001 picks .... they didn't make any.

What's unfair about using the C'boys last four actual years of picks to evaluate how they are doing on the first day of the draft? It actually happened.

In regards to the Texans, I acknowledge that it would be unfair to hold them accountable for Vinny's picks, but I just thought including them gave us a little more information about what the Texans first day haul will look like over a four year period.