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View Full Version : ShoeGate reflects Richard Justice taking AJ's writing without attribution


CloakNNNdagger
09-19-2009, 11:10 PM
I don't usually agree with Justice's writings but this piece, written around Robinson's actions and their reflection of the whole team culture, has summarized much of what has been discussed here on the MB.


A sample of the article (the end). You can read the rest from the Link:


Winning culture missing

Instead, his shoes made him a center of attention, and then to have the Texans do nothing more than fine him a token amount of money, to basically tell him it was no big deal, opens the discussion to larger issues about the franchise.

It's that uncertain intangible thing the Texans have never had. It's not about berating people. It's about developing a culture of winning and accepting nothing less. The Texans never have played like it was the most important thing in the world.

That mentality can come from the coaches or the players or from the owner. But it has to come from somewhere. Right now, the Texans don't have it.

The Chronicle Link (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/texans/6626422.html)

steelbtexan
09-19-2009, 11:37 PM
Richard Justice is a know it all, vindictive a**

Who happens to be spot on with this analysis.

I guess it's true a blind squirrell finds a nut every now and then.

IlliniJen
09-19-2009, 11:59 PM
Yup...Justice actually got one right. But this culture of losing and softness has been around for awhile. This is no new revelation...it's just glaringly obvious now more than ever.

Here's hoping someone's balls drop on this team and starts busting heads.

Wolf
09-20-2009, 12:04 AM
yeah I read that and had to go outside to check the thermometer , I might need to get another thermometer to make sure the first one is accurate.. I surely thought Hell was freezing over when I read that, I actually agreed with him

Lucky
09-20-2009, 01:40 AM
Had he not called attention to himself, had he not talked about “what I'm really playing for,” they might have been right. Dunta wouldn't have been a topic of conversation after the latest embarrassing loss.



Instead, his shoes made him a center of attention, and then to have the Texans do nothing more than fine him a token amount of money, to basically tell him it was no big deal, opens the discussion to larger issues about the franchise.

Dunta's shoes did the Texans a favor. It took some of the focus off of the horrific performance by the players and the coaches. The shoes didn't get blown off the line by the Jets defensive front. The shoes didn't drop passes or fumble in the red zone. The shoes didn't give up 3rd down conversions. The shoes didn't blow coverages or miss tackles. Or fail to adjust to anything the Jets showed.

But what are we talking about? The shoes. The Texans shouldn't have fined Dunta for wearing those shoes. They should have given him a bonus.

m5kwatts
09-20-2009, 01:52 AM
Can someone fart on a piece of paper and mail it to the chronicle? Same as anything written by Justice.

ObsiWan
09-20-2009, 05:08 AM
Dunta's shoes did the Texans a favor. It took some of the focus off of the horrific performance by the players and the coaches. The shoes didn't get blown off the line by the Jets defensive front. The shoes didn't drop passes or fumble in the red zone. The shoes didn't give up 3rd down conversions. The shoes didn't blow coverages or miss tackles. Or fail to adjust to anything the Jets showed.

But what are we talking about? The shoes. The Texans shouldn't have fined Dunta for wearing those shoes. They should have given him a bonus.

Excellent post!!
I'd quadruple rep you if it was possible!

ALL WEEK, in the paper, on the radio, whereever you look or listen, it's been what's was written on Dunta's damned shoes.
- What about the fact that we knew Rex Ryan's M.O. and still came out with a predictable game plan?
- What about, as you said, the failure to adjust to what they were doing?
- What about the fact that Slaton wasn't producing and Brown was - but who did they sit? Brown! Where was the logic in that? And while some folks did mention it, there was not the outrage over the lack of what could have been a game-changing move that there was over those stupid shoes.

Yep, those shoes did Kubiak a biiig favor. He should pay Dunta's fine.

Showtime100
09-20-2009, 06:29 AM
Dunta's shoes did the Texans a favor. It took some of the focus off of the horrific performance by the players and the coaches. The shoes didn't get blown off the line by the Jets defensive front. The shoes didn't drop passes or fumble in the red zone. The shoes didn't give up 3rd down conversions. The shoes didn't blow coverages or miss tackles. Or fail to adjust to anything the Jets showed.

But what are we talking about? The shoes. The Texans shouldn't have fined Dunta for wearing those shoes. They should have given him a bonus.

I don't know about that. I think it would be a good thing for the Texans organization to see the press and fans come down on their on-field product with an undivided attention. I don't believe the Texans somehow catching a break from the press or the fans after last week will do this situation or any of us any favors.

aj.
09-20-2009, 07:59 AM
Read the fourth paragraph in that Justice column and compare it to the last paragraph in this article (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m9d16-Quick-six-a-curious-signing-by-Texans) that was published two days earlier.


Coincidence? Maybe, but the fact he pulled unusual numbers like $75k and $188 out of thin air is a bit too unbelievable.

Lucky
09-20-2009, 08:07 AM
Read the fourth paragraph in that Justice column and compare it to the last paragraph in this article (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner%7Ey2009m9d16-Quick-six-a-curious-signing-by-Texans) that was written two days earlier.


Coincidence? Maybe, but the fact he pulled unusual numbers like $75k and $188 out of thin air is a bit too unbelievable.

aj's column (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner%7Ey2009m9d16-Quick-six-a-curious-signing-by-Texans) (9/16)
Let's see ... doing the math to put it into a monetary perspective that most of us can understand, a $25,000 fine for someone making $9.96 million per year is the equivalent of $188 bucks for those who make $75,000 per year. Feel better now?Justice's plagiarism (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/justice/texans/6626422.html) (9/18)
If you're out there doing the 9-to-5 thing, fighting traffic, trying to make ends meet and proud to be pulling down $75,000, that fine would be the equivalent of your boss docking you $188. That's not even enough money to take your family to a game at Reliant Stadium.What a scumbag Justice is. What did we do to deserve such a f'ed up newspaper?

NitroGSXR
09-20-2009, 08:59 AM
Read the fourth paragraph in that Justice column and compare it to the last paragraph in this article (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m9d16-Quick-six-a-curious-signing-by-Texans) that was published two days earlier.


Coincidence? Maybe, but the fact he pulled unusual numbers like $75k and $188 out of thin air is a bit too unbelievable.

Wow. I didn't know people still did that. Especially journalists. You deserve better than that crap, aj.

Wow.

ArlingtonTexan
09-20-2009, 09:34 AM
Wow. I didn't know people still did that. Especially journalists. You deserve better than that crap, aj.

Wow.

Trust me, the internet because of the mass amount blogs, message borads and other unsigned opinions makes plagerism easier and more prevelant. This one from Justice is poor, because the article is signed, local, and directly covers the same set of events. If he wanted to steal the idea, but not make it so obvious he should have made it another number like $50,000 which is around the average household income in america.

Overall, I get the comparison thing, but I know that while it does not break me, I hate losing $200 for something avoidable.

infantrycak
09-20-2009, 09:38 AM
Wow. I didn't know people still did that. Especially journalists. You deserve better than that crap, aj.

Wow.

What's really sad is Justice once accused aj of being a pretend journalist who was just out on the internet copying what other people said. Seems like Justice confused the conversation for a therapy session confessing his own shortcomings.

False Start
09-20-2009, 09:43 AM
What a scumbag Justice is. What did we do to deserve such a f'ed up newspaper?

Yeah, shes a faker.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/dick.jpg

IlliniJen
09-20-2009, 09:49 AM
Read the fourth paragraph in that Justice column and compare it to the last paragraph in this article (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m9d16-Quick-six-a-curious-signing-by-Texans) that was published two days earlier.


Coincidence? Maybe, but the fact he pulled unusual numbers like $75k and $188 out of thin air is a bit too unbelievable.

Holy crap. Did you email the Chron's editor on this?

Justice is a worthless pile of crap, we all knew that, but he's a scumbag plagiarist now too.

NitroGSXR
09-20-2009, 09:57 AM
What's really sad is Justice once accused aj of being a pretend journalist who was just out on the internet copying what other people said. Seems like Justice confused the conversation for a therapy session confessing his own shortcomings.

Wow. I'll be sending a complaint to the editor. Plagiarism is so wrong. I can understand piggybacking on someone but at least make it into your own words. Basically every word that comes out of my mouth is information that I picked up somewhere. I'll make it into my own thoughts but jeez... he got paid for that.

I'm truly appalled. I generally like to consider myself a happy-go-lucky sort of guy but I'm really appalled here.

Texans_Chick
09-20-2009, 11:58 AM
What's really sad is Justice once accused aj of being a pretend journalist who was just out on the internet copying what other people said. Seems like Justice confused the conversation for a therapy session confessing his own shortcomings.

Yup, here's that a blog post that talks about what happened (http://blog.kir.com/archives/2009/04/is_this_really.asp) and contains the conversation that RJ later deleted.

Which suggests that RJ knows that AJ is a blogger.

One he suggested lives in his mom's basement.

He didn't just accuse AJ of copying what other people said. He accused him directly of stealing.

At any rate, after Burge commented (he goes by "AJ" in the comments) on Justice's blog post, Justice responded by belittling Burge's comment. Burge responded by again challenging Justice's statements regarding NFL contract provisions. Justice responded by continuing to belittle Burge and concluded by accusing Burge of stealing "from others and calling it research."

Or the direct quote:

"You steal from others and call it research."

So basically, AJ volunteers a great deal of his own time to write intelligent stuff about the Texans, and RJ gets paid to suggest that the Texans should trade away their best corner (akin to tallest midget) a week before the season for a bucket of dirty tube socks. A guy that everyone in the organization says publicly makes the defense better. And then uses AJ's math to justify it without attribution.

AJ also mentioned that math in a twitter post a day before the RJ article.

Shameless.

NitroGSXR
09-20-2009, 12:03 PM
Yup, here's that a blog post that talks about what happened (http://blog.kir.com/archives/2009/04/is_this_really.asp) and contains the conversation that RJ later deleted.

Which suggests that RJ knows that AJ is a blogger.

One he suggested lives in his mom's basement.

He didn't just accuse AJ of copying what other people said. He accused him directly of stealing.



Or the direct quote:

"You steal from others and call it research."

So basically, AJ volunteers a great deal of his own time to write intelligent stuff about the Texans, and RJ gets paid to suggest that the Texans should trade away their best corner (akin to tallest midget) a week before the season for a bucket of dirty tube socks. A guy that everyone in the organization says publicly makes the defense better. And then uses AJ's math to justify it without attribution.

AJ also mentioned that math in a twitter post a day before the RJ article.

Shameless.

What about the clickable link that said he accused you of it? Nothing came up when I clicked it.

Car wreck. I gotta slow down and watch. Sooo... What happened?

ObsiWan
09-20-2009, 12:06 PM
What about the clickable link that said he accused you of it? Nothing came up when I clicked it.

Car wreck. I gotta slow down and watch. Sooo... What happened?

The link worked for me.
:confused:

NitroGSXR
09-20-2009, 12:09 PM
The link worked for me.
:confused:

It's working for me now. I think it was the new Chrome browswer that was interfering.

Oh my gosh! WOW!

Texans_Chick
09-20-2009, 12:18 PM
What about the clickable link that said he accused you of it? Nothing came up when I clicked it.

Car wreck. I gotta slow down and watch. Sooo... What happened?

Hmmm, all the links work for me.

He didn't accuse me of stealing. Or being a journalist based on the work of others.

Basically, I asked some questions about a blog post of his I didn't understand. He was trashing Alex Gibbs for being a yeller and freaking out about the running game after the third game of the preseason. I asked whether the Oline was actually tuning Alex Gibbs out or if he was just making the broader statement that football players tune out yelling and cussing coaches.

At first he suggested that I was naive to think that players like yelling, and then later started accusing me by name in both his blog and the radio of stalking him. You see, in his world, if you are a dude that questions his writing, you are a basement blogger, but if you are female that questions his writing, then you are stalking him.

He eventually stopped. Some of the defamatory comments are still on his blog though the reasoned comments I made, nothing ugly at all, were deleted. And the funny thing is that he had INVITED me at one time to participate on his blog and forget that he did.

ObsiWan
09-20-2009, 12:41 PM
Okay we've established that Justice is a worm.
No argument.

My question is, Do you have to be hardnosed to build a winning football team? Or is it more about assembling the right personnel?

It's been made very plain by some folks that Kubiak and McNair aren't hardnosed enough. Hell, I even said so myself. But I thought the fine should have come from McNair himself to send the message that "we're paying to play winning football not to put cute sayings on your damned shoes".

Some folks say Dungy is a "nice guy" and I agree. But I don't think he's soft. That defense he built in Tampa sure as hell wasn't soft. That team he left behind in Indy might be called "precision" but it's not soft. And they do win.

So is our problem a "soft" coaching staff (or higher) that translates into a "soft" team or do we just not quite yet have all the pieces to be a winner?

infantrycak
09-20-2009, 01:08 PM
At first he suggested that I was naive to think that players like yelling, and then later started accusing me by name in both his blog and the radio of stalking him. You see, in his world, if you are a dude that questions his writing, you are a basement blogger, but if you are female that questions his writing, then you are stalking him.

For those that don't know, Richard Injustice took his little rant against TC on the radio and it floored the 1560 guys who immediately were like "umm Richard TC is a steadfast and very knowledgeable fan." He backed away at least temporarily.

Texans_Chick
09-20-2009, 05:24 PM
Lots of views of ShoeGate:

McClain says: Texans need to fine DR and make a big deal of that fine. And move on.

Solomon says: Texans should have just dealt with it and kept quiet. Because they made a big deal of the fine, their front office is messed up.

Justice says: Texans should have traded Dunta Robinson for whatever they could get right after he signed the tender because I'm not sure why, some sort of I'm mad a the Texans for losing thing, bad lockerroom thingy.

Ultimately, DR's comments about the shoes don't mean crap. The writing on the shoes was very tiny. Nobody woulda noticed them except that the radio guy did. DR's comments when he was asked about them were a mistake and he said so later. He paid the fine and just wanted to move on to focus on football.

We can talk about all the soft issues (heart, physical play, blah blah blah) and all those things certainly matter. But sometimes things are just matchups. Jets had physical matchups on both lines that presented problems--you could construct a legit argument that they have the best offense/defense line combo in the league. Texans-Titans always end up having weird ugly games, including today's. The Texans defense has a bunch of young players and a new DC and they are gonna have some sorryass games until or if they can figure it out. Somedays the Texans offense will be able to overcome and sometimes not. Somedays they will have breaks work their way, sometimes not.

Personally, I look at matchups on the field before I am jumping to the heart, try hard, locker room blahdeedee stuff You play a game, you play to win the game. Somedays the other team is better, somedays not.

In other words, I want to see a left brain analysis of a team before a right brain analysis. Today's game was a study of resilience. They've been on the bad side of these weirdo-defense games before, and like the Miami game last year, they got on the non-heartbreaking side this year.

Lucky
09-20-2009, 05:36 PM
In other words, I want to see a left brain analysis of a team before a right brain analysis. Today's game was a study of resilience.
I love reading your analysis. But, I have to disagree with your take on the past two games. The difference has little to do with X's & O's and matchups, and everything to do with desire and will.

I saw the same left brain mistakes from the players and coaches, today, that I witnessed in game 1. Right brain, was a complete turnaround. This is the type of effort that has to be displayed every week.

I can live with the mental errors. That can be corrected (I hope). I just can't stomach a team that doesn't play with max effort. Right now, I feel good about this team. For the first time in a very long time.

Texans_Chick
09-20-2009, 08:54 PM
I love reading your analysis. But, I have to disagree with your take on the past two games. The difference has little to do with X's & O's and matchups, and everything to do with desire and will.

I saw the same left brain mistakes from the players and coaches, today, that I witnessed in game 1. Right brain, was a complete turnaround. This is the type of effort that has to be displayed every week.

I can live with the mental errors. That can be corrected (I hope). I just can't stomach a team that doesn't play with max effort. Right now, I feel good about this team. For the first time in a very long time.

We can attribute it to heart, and certainly being mentally tough enough to overcome the defensive goonage made a difference.

But the Texans caught some breaks. They made their own breaks and then they just got unbelieveably freaking lucky on some of the ways that the ball bounced (or how Kerry Collins just dropped it). Last week, they had no breaks at all

I don't question the effort of this team. Ever. I don't see slacking. It is the most despicable thing you can say about an athlete, and shouldn't be said without specific evidence. What I do see is a bunch of young players that make mistakes and some questionable playing calling on defense at times. I also see bad matchups at times.

In some ways that it is easier to contemplate "Try harder" versus "This team isn't that good" or "The other team is better." There's potential there, but that defense is putrid.

Jackie Chiles
09-20-2009, 08:57 PM
the Texans caught some breaks. They made their own breaks and then they just got unbelieveably freaking lucky on some of the ways that the ball bounced (or how Kerry Collins just dropped it). Last week, they had no breaks at all

That was the biggest break of a call/play that I can remember ever seeing us get. Those type of plays have happened against us in the past but it is a bizarre feeling being on the other end of it.

steelbtexan
09-20-2009, 09:26 PM
Okay we've established that Justice is a worm.
No argument.

My question is, Do you have to be hardnosed to build a winning football team? Or is it more about assembling the right personnel?

It's been made very plain by some folks that Kubiak and McNair aren't hardnosed enough. Hell, I even said so myself. But I thought the fine should have come from McNair himself to send the message that "we're paying to play winning football not to put cute sayings on your damned shoes".

Some folks say Dungy is a "nice guy" and I agree. But I don't think he's soft. That defense he built in Tampa sure as hell wasn't soft. That team he left behind in Indy might be called "precision" but it's not soft. And they do win.

So is our problem a "soft" coaching staff (or higher) that translates into a "soft" team or do we just not quite yet have all the pieces to be a winner?

I think it's a little bit of both.

When the same mistakes are made repeatedly (Jacobys fumbles for instance) he should be replaced. That shows a lack of management leadership. IMO

As far as talent goes there is a severe lack of talent in the secondary. Smithiak need to sign a run stuffing DT in FA (Casy Hampton) and get at least one OG preferably two. IMO

The team has to figure out how to fill these holes before they can be considered a complete team.

They could make the playoffs if they're lucky but a few injuries mean we (fans) will be getting to see more of the Studdards and Fergusons of the world. UGGH

Heath Shuler
09-20-2009, 10:02 PM
Read the fourth paragraph in that Justice column and compare it to the last paragraph in this article (http://www.examiner.com/examiner/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m9d16-Quick-six-a-curious-signing-by-Texans) that was published two days earlier.


Coincidence? Maybe, but the fact he pulled unusual numbers like $75k and $188 out of thin air is a bit too unbelievable.

How does dickie get away with this crap?

Texans_Chick
09-22-2009, 06:09 PM
Justice says he got the $188 figure from Lance Zierlein. I'm guessing LZ got it from Alan. RJ says he has never read anything that AJ has written (though certainly knows that he is a blogger because he accused AJ at one time of living in his mom's basement)

There's an article about this in the Houston Press online:

http://blogs.houstonpress.com/hairballs/2009/09/richard_justics_blogger.php

Happens all the time. People get information from all sorts of places and don't know the original source. Or maybe steal from others and call it research."

I will take issue with the intro of the HP article. I don't think most sports bloggers care what RJ thinks of our opinions or professionalism though we would prefer for him not to use his media platforms to state defamatory things. I think some sports bloggers take issue with him because they think that he should use his access as a sports writer to say rational, logically supportable things about sporting events and teams.

JDizzle
09-22-2009, 06:28 PM
Justice says he got the $188 figure from Lance Zierlein. I'm guessing LZ got it from Alan. RJ says he has never read anything that AJ has written (though certainly knows that he is a blogger because he accused AJ at one time of living in his mom's basement)


Lance mentioned aj's blog and also that little tidbit about the fine from his blog post on the air last week. Funny thing is Richard Justice was sitting in the studio with them when he brought it up.