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View Full Version : Texans' Offense and Schaub, Poor Match


gafftop
09-18-2009, 07:07 PM
I heard on the radio MS can be successful only if all the planets align. Well the planets aren't aligned in the Texans offense. Let's look more closely. Even when 110% MS is not the most mobile QB. MS is not the most durable QB. MS not great arm stength. The Texans' line is not the most dominant line. The lack of mobility (especially last week against the Jets, ankle) of MS means that he can't buy any time and make something happen unlike some other QB's that are able to scramble and allow the receivers to create. Therefore we can't utilize AJ physical talents on a busted play. This is even made worse because MS can't affford to take a hit, unlike some QB's that can stay in the pocket until the last second and let the play develope. If we had a QB that could take a hit we would gain some time, or if we had a QB that could scramble and buy some time we could maybe make some conpletions and maybe come up with the big play. We have the receivers to do this but due to the above factors we were unable to do this last week against the Jets. That is why the offense was so pitiful. I understand the PROBLEM is our offensive line. But our offensive line may be just what is was last week for the entire season. The more i write the more depressed I become. The defense only needs to shut down AJ with double coverage and get after MS and we have last week's outcome again this week. I guess what I am getting at is if MS is not healthy and mobile and Kubiak is determined to play MS no matter what like last week, we will have a repeat of last week. I was a Kubiak fan until last week. His inability to get the team up and prepared along with the POOR judgement in playing MS really makes me wonder. I guess getting back to the title, with our Oline we would be better off with a very mobile QB or a QB that can take a hit every once in a while. We have neither in MS. Would appreciate comment that give me some hope. thanks

barrett
09-18-2009, 08:36 PM
Meh,

Schaub is extremely accurate and makes good reads for the most part. I think he's very good for this system.

I'm going to see your pessimism and raise you optimism.

gafftop
09-18-2009, 08:43 PM
I agree behind an average to above average line Schaub would be above average to good. I hope his ankle injury was the main reason for the poor performance week 1. But if this is true WHY DID HE PLAY SO LONG or play at all. Can't the coaches vsiualize what is going to happen or a least see it. I know off subject.

TheRealJoker
09-18-2009, 08:48 PM
So you're saying because the OL is bad we need to find a replacement for Schaub? I think it would be a lot easier to upgrade the OL's weaknesses than it would be to find a QB who could outperform Schaub behind the same OL.

ObsiWan
09-18-2009, 09:15 PM
I heard on the radio MS can be successful only if all the planets align. Well the planets aren't aligned in the Texans offense. Let's look more closely. Even when 110% MS is not the most mobile QB. MS is not the most durable QB. MS not great arm stength. The Texans' line is not the most dominant line. The lack of mobility (especially last week against the Jets, ankle) of MS means that he can't buy any time and make something happen unlike some other QB's that are able to scramble and allow the receivers to create. Therefore we can't utilize AJ physical talents on a busted play. This is even made worse because MS can't affford to take a hit, unlike some QB's that can stay in the pocket until the last second and let the play develope. If we had a QB that could take a hit we would gain some time, or if we had a QB that could scramble and buy some time we could maybe make some conpletions and maybe come up with the big play. We have the receivers to do this but due to the above factors we were unable to do this last week against the Jets. That is why the offense was so pitiful. I understand the PROBLEM is our offensive line. But our offensive line may be just what is was last week for the entire season. The more i write the more depressed I become. The defense only needs to shut down AJ with double coverage and get after MS and we have last week's outcome again this week. I guess what I am getting at is if MS is not healthy and mobile and Kubiak is determined to play MS no matter what like last week, we will have a repeat of last week. I was a Kubiak fan until last week. His inability to get the team up and prepared along with the POOR judgement in playing MS really makes me wonder. I guess getting back to the title, with our Oline we would be better off with a very mobile QB or a QB that can take a hit every once in a while. We have neither in MS. Would appreciate comment that give me some hope. thanks

There's no excuse for a QB not to make himself a moving target. We used to get on HWWNBN for not moving around or stepping up in the pocket. Schaub makes much better decisions and makes his reads better than HWWNBN but he's not any better at doing the little dance in the pocket to make himself a moving target and thereby help his line protect him.

Neither Brady nor Big Ben nor Peyton are running QBs - or even all that "mobile" - but they move around enough to buy that extra half second that's the difference between a completion and a sack.

The more I watch Schaub, the more I'm reminded of Drew Bledsoe. If you give him time, he'll kill you. But he cannot reliably create that extra second or so on his own.

Either Kubiak needs to teach Schaub that skill or we need a stouter O-line.

TimeKiller
09-18-2009, 09:30 PM
I recognize that he's got very medium speed but if the OL isn't providing a pocket to dance in that leaves a plodder in space making plays with an average arm. I also think it's weak that Schaub isn't given leeway with the offense when his strength is decision making. If this offense needed a John Elway level QB to force it down defenses throats why did we trade through the draft for his opposite?

CloakNNNdagger
09-18-2009, 09:31 PM
Big Ben last week it was written that he "bought" time with a little step here and there.......giving him an average of 4 seconds.

It'll be interesting to see if MS buys himself anymore than last week's 2 seconds............or if he buys himself a trip to the hospital.

eriadoc
09-18-2009, 09:34 PM
Would Ben Roethlisberger be better or worse behind this offensive line?

Corrosion
09-18-2009, 09:36 PM
Would Ben Roethlisberger be better or worse behind this offensive line?

Worse , this team doesnt have the threat of pounding the ball with the running game that the Steelers do.

dalemurphy
09-18-2009, 09:42 PM
Worse , this team doesnt have the threat of pounding the ball with the running game that the Steelers do.

This isn't 2005. We actually have a much better running game than the Steelers. Their rushing attack is atrocious. Jeff Fisher actually guaranteed that the Texans would be in the Top 5 in the NFL running the ball this year. He told Tim and Pat on Sirius to file that away.

eriadoc
09-18-2009, 09:46 PM
My point is that Big Ben holds the ball too long at times - a lot of the time, in fact. As a result, he takes too many sacks, but he also makes plays for his team. He makes those plays because his line does hold up more often than not. When a QB here holds the ball too long, he just gets creamed and it's looked at as a bad thing by the QB (which it is, but everything's relative).

What we need here in Houston is a QB that can make a mediocre pass blocking line look better than they are. When the running game is clicking, Matt's that guy. But Schaub is not the guy that is going to be able to play at an elevated level when the pass rush is coming relentlessly, IMO. Our line doesn't hold up long enough, often enough, and he doesn't have the pre-snap recognition and playcall control that someone like Manning has.

gafftop
09-18-2009, 10:16 PM
I guess I am trying to figure out if we can salvage THIS season. Again I agree a better offensive line is the answer and very possibly that is the ONLY answer.Nothing else may make a substantial difference in the overall outcome. I do think Ben would do better than MS did against the Jets only because he could have bought some time and probably had some success. Would it have made a difference in the overall outcome? Maybe, maybe not. Little things can make differences. If Slaton had not fumbled that might have changed the course of the game.The question is would Ben have survived, I think so. If MS did the same thing and took the same hits would he have survived? I think the Texans/MS by design or by instinct have decided that MS can not afford to get hit and take a chance of injury. AGAIN I hope the ankle was the reason for the poor showing. And again I think MS is just barely mobile enoughwhen healthy to be effective against a good pass rushing defense with our offensive line. Do I think Gross/Orv would be better, I am not sure but I am afraid we will find out. Let's just hope that NY Jets have a GREAT defense and from here on it will get easier.Again all above my opinion only.

gafftop
09-18-2009, 10:22 PM
I have heard it a couple of different times that MS is limited by the coaching staff as to making changes. If this is true I think it is wrong unless I am missing something. When do they turn the speakers off? Well a lot of things change after those speakers go out. Unless MS is Carrlike I think he needs the opportunity to make changes. If he is that Carrlike ...........

GuerillaBlack
09-18-2009, 10:30 PM
There's no excuse for a QB not to make himself a moving target. We used to get on HWWNBN for not moving around or stepping up in the pocket. Schaub makes much better decisions and makes his reads better than HWWNBN but he's not any better at doing the little dance in the pocket to make himself a moving target and thereby help his line protect him.

Neither Brady nor Big Ben nor Peyton are running QBs - or even all that "mobile" - but they move around enough to buy that extra half second that's the difference between a completion and a sack.

The more I watch Schaub, the more I'm reminded of Drew Bledsoe. If you give him time, he'll kill you. But he cannot reliably create that extra second or so on his own.

Either Kubiak needs to teach Schaub that skill or we need a stouter O-line.

I wish Schaub was as durable as David Carr though.

This isn't 2005. We actually have a much better running game than the Steelers. Their rushing attack is atrocious. Jeff Fisher actually guaranteed that the Texans would be in the Top 5 in the NFL running the ball this year. He told Tim and Pat on Sirius to file that away.

This is true. The Steelers running game has dropped, significantly I think. Willie Parker has dropped off and Mendenhall isn't look too hot.

Speedy
09-18-2009, 10:31 PM
Looking for any "it ain't a bad as we think" point I grab on to after the turd they layed last week, I come up with this;

last year in game one against the Steelers, they layed a turd in that one too. Slaton had just 43 yards (3.3) and the Texans had 243 yards of offense. Most of that was garbage time yardage in the 2nd half.

Granted, they showed a little more life against the Steelers than they did last Sunday, but still, it was a pretty bad day offensively, especially in the 1st half.

In the 2nd game last year, against the Titans, Slaton rolled up 116 yards (6.4), and they had 317 yards of offense. Now they turned the ball over 3 times in that game, but my point is, after a bad outing offensively in the 1st game, they came out in the 2nd game, against the Titans and their tough as nails defense, and moved the ball, RAN the ball.

This year game one was a stinker offensively like last year. Now here comes the Titans again in game 2. Maybe they get it going again like last year. Just don't have the turnovers and win the game this time.

As horrible as last week was, it didn't end the season. I expect a much better game this week.

ObsiWan
09-18-2009, 10:32 PM
The Texans are tied in with Methodist Hospital right? Why can't they have the doctors transplant Matt Schaub's brain into Orlovsky's body?
:thinking:

Orlovsky has the stronger arm and is younger and faster and less fragile (he survived a whole year behind a Lions' O-line that gave up 52 sacks didn't he). With Matt's brain, maybe he would know where the end line is and learn not to lock onto one guy.

:backsout:

TheRealJoker
09-18-2009, 10:40 PM
Big Ben holds the ball longer than the average QB to give his WRs time to get open. He's unique in that he's a big tough mobile QB who can shake off tacklers to buy extra time in the pocket and can take the hits NFL DL dish out. He doesn't have the same ability as a Manning/Brady to make the OL look better, in fact he actually makes the OL look worse. Manning/Brady will get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds and find an open target. I dont think Big Ben's vision is as good as those two so he needs to wait for the WRs to get open a bit more before delivering the football.

With him on our team the pass blocking OL would look even worse. Although I think he would be able to connect on far more big plays than we've seen given the talent we have in the skill positions (Stud WR/posession WR/2 deep threats WRs/slot WR/ pro bowl TE/homerun threat RB) and his ability to shake off tacklers to buy time in the pocket.

ObsiWan
09-18-2009, 10:47 PM
Big Ben holds the ball longer than the average QB to give his WRs time to get open. He's unique in that he's a big tough mobile QB who can shake off tacklers to buy extra time in the pocket and can take the hits NFL DL dish out. He doesn't have the same ability as a Manning/Brady to make the OL look better, in fact he actually makes the OL look worse. Manning/Brady will get rid of the ball in under 3 seconds and find an open target. I dont think Big Ben's vision is as good as those two so he needs to wait for the WRs to get open a bit more before delivering the football.

With him on our team the pass blocking OL would look even worse. Although I think he would be able to connect on far more big plays than we've seen given the talent we have in the skill positions (Stud WR/posession WR/2 deep threats WRs/slot WR/ pro bowl TE/homerun threat RB) and his ability to shake off tacklers to buy time in the pocket.

So what you're saying is, behind our line, Big Ben would take more sacks than Schaub but get better results; i.e., more big plays/TD passes...?

gafftop
09-18-2009, 11:37 PM
I would agree with that. Ben would get the sacks but he would not be bailing all the time. He would make some plays with AJ that Schaub will not. Ben is stlill looking to make a play while Schaub is just looking to throw the ball away. Just the way it is not good , not bad, just different mindset. If Schaub played like Ben he wouldn't last very long and I think he knows that and the coaches know that and coach him accordingly.

Scooter
09-18-2009, 11:42 PM
schaub's perfect for our offense. smart, extremely accurate, makes quick reads, and has arguably the best play fake in football. arent we a run first team, basically west coast in the passing game, and rely on play action to get seperation deep and move out of the pocket? those are schaub's strengths. big ben's an oddity and it's hard to even guess at how he'd perform here. he's often got 3-4 seconds or more before he starts running around - having less than 3 seconds to plant and throw could end up being complete futility to have him. dante culpepper and jamarcus russell are the only comperable quarterbacks as "defensive ends playing qb" that i can think of, and i for one think that'd be a disaster in houston.

our offense is so contingent on rushing well that it takes a good portion of the passing game away when we're being stuffed. we cant roll out, cant play fake, and an added safety is in coverage. this is where i dont like shanahan calling the plays. shanny obviously doesnt have near the experience of kubiak, and he looks like he's out there simply guessing at what to do next (our run game isnt working so we motion a tightend behind the guard and bring the WR's closer ... wtf all that does is allow the defense to stack the box further). there were several times over the last couple of years where kubiak went almost entirely 3 or 4 receivers (emptying the backfield with slaton motioning to outside receiver), especially later in games or to attempt to jump start the offense. if the rest of this season is anything like the jets game we're going to be in trouble if we're losing the line of scrimmage.

CloakNNNdagger
09-18-2009, 11:46 PM
I would agree with that. Ben would get the sacks but he would not be bailing all the time. He would make some plays with AJ that Schaub will not. Ben is stlill looking to make a play while Schaub is just looking to throw the ball away. Just the way it is not good , not bad, just different mindset. If Schaub played like Ben he wouldn't last very long and I think he knows that and the coaches know that and coach him accordingly.

The Sex Cannon and Orlovsky both have bought themselves time with better poise in the pocket than Schaub. With both of them having "big arms," they are more likely to make something out of nothing with just a small amount of the "good judgement" factor. Let's face it, under pressure, Schaub did not show any better judgement than Orlovosky........and maybe worse.........especially for a "seasoned veteran." JMHO

Norg
09-18-2009, 11:58 PM
Umm i dont about yall but latley MS man he took some hits and got back up so

Matty can take some hits

He got hit in the raiders game last year and the jets game

TheRealJoker
09-19-2009, 12:19 AM
So what you're saying is, behind our line, Big Ben would take more sacks than Schaub but get better results; i.e., more big plays/TD passes...?

Bingo. He's a special player in that regard and is the only QB that can get away with holding the ball like he does because he can take the punishment and he's big enough to shake off tacklers. The problem is, I do not think he'd be all that consistent if we cant get a running game going over the course of a game. Same problem we currently have with Schaub and whoever else we line up under center because the coaches cannot adjust when there isn't a running game because the scheme's success lives and dies off the success of our running game.

For example: The Steelers running game got shut down, the coaches adjusted and decided to air it out the rest of the game with winning results.

Have we ever adjusted like that? I know the whole, "But they'll blitz us like crazy" line, but that's all part of the adjustment. You gotta give your QB some hot reads to beat the blitz, maybe even let him call some AUDIBLES based on what the defense is showing him!!!

Andrew6
09-19-2009, 04:16 AM
Have we ever adjusted like that? I know the whole, "But they'll blitz us like crazy" line, but that's all part of the adjustment. You gotta give your QB some hot reads to beat the blitz, maybe even let him call some AUDIBLES based on what the defense is showing him!!!


What is the AUDIBLE you speak of?

CloakNNNdagger
09-19-2009, 08:57 AM
what is the audible you speak of?

heeeeeeeellllppppppp!:)

hradhak
09-19-2009, 10:11 AM
I'm hoping the reason Schaub didn't play well was because of his ankle. But even if his ankle were fine, we couldn't run the ball at all against the Jets. At the end of it all our running game dictates our offense more so than our passing game.

Schaub is fine for our system. I don't see a reason to change that, but if we can't get the running game working, we're going to have a really long season.

bckey
09-19-2009, 10:26 AM
My only concern this year on offense is Steve Slaton. I'm worried that the added weight may have slowed him down. The Texans offense is the same as last year when they were #3. This was basically the ravens part two. The ravens had a rookie qb and rookie head coach last year just like the jets did this year. The only thing that remained the same was Rex Ryan. He knows how to shut this offense down. Kubiak needs to study the game film from those 2 games and come up with a gameplan exclusively for that defense.

Was I pissed about the game last week? You bet I was. I vented on here and other boards. But it is week 2 and we are headed off to tackville. This should be a much better game. I don't think we will see the lame duck Texans this week. I think we will see the real Texans that score points and a defense that plays better this week. Go Texans! :aggressive:

JDizzle
09-19-2009, 10:39 AM
Schaub did not show any better judgement than Orlovosky........and maybe worse.........especially for a "seasoned veteran." JMHO

The big 360lb gorilla in the room (not named Kris Jenkins) is that there's a fair chance that Schaub may not be the guy we had hoped he would be. Nobody seems to be talking about that, though, I guess because he's someone who puts the effort and time in as well as commanding the respect of his team mates, so it's not like his predecessor who was easy to run out of town.

My only concern this year on offense is Steve Slaton. I'm worried that the added weight may have slowed him down.

I guess if we say this enough it will become truth ... or not. He told 610 that he's back at his 2008 weight so we can throw this right out the window where it was supposed to be in the first place.

krocket
09-19-2009, 10:56 AM
Let's face it, Schaub is who we thought he was. He has assets and liabilities. He is not very good after the play breaks down. Most of his injuries have come after a play broke down and he failed to throw the ball away while he trying to make a play happen. It is not only that he isn't fast but also that he is not evasive. He doesn't seem to have that magic that makes an NFL QB great. He doesn't today and he won't tomorrow.

If Grossman is not the man and the other guy isn't either then we need to take a QB in the draft that has those abilities whether he is 1st round or 6th round I can't say.

HJam72
09-19-2009, 12:18 PM
If Grossman is not the man and the other guy isn't either then we need to take a QB in the draft that has those abilities whether he is 1st round or 6th round I can't say.

Maybe. A lot of that depends on what else we could get for what we spend. I wouldn't pass on another Palomalu next draft to get a rookie QB that will have to sit on the bench for a couple of years.

CloakNNNdagger
09-19-2009, 12:33 PM
Maybe. A lot of that depends on what else we could get for what we spend. I wouldn't pass on another Palomalu next draft to get a rookie QB that will have to sit on the bench for a couple of years.

Would settle then for a veteran QB who should be sitting on the bench?

HJam72
09-19-2009, 12:40 PM
Would settle then for a veteran QB who should be sitting on the bench?

Meh, it's a tough choice. I just think Schaub is going to look a lot better most of this year....if he stays healthy--and he did takes some serious hits and keep getting up last Sunday.

ObsiWan
09-19-2009, 12:43 PM
The Sex Cannon and Orlovsky both have bought themselves time with better poise in the pocket than Schaub. With both of them having "big arms," they are more likely to make something out of nothing with just a small amount of the "good judgement" factor. Let's face it, under pressure, Schaub did not show any better judgement than Orlovosky........and maybe worse.........especially for a "seasoned veteran." JMHO

Must spread rep... yada, yada, yada...

On point, my man, on point.

ObsiWan
09-19-2009, 12:45 PM
Meh, it's a tough choice. I just think Schaub is going to look a lot better most of this year....if he stays healthy--and he did takes some serious hits and keep getting up last Sunday.

Question:
Is it Matt "if he stays healthy" Schaub
or
If he stays healthy, Matt Schaub.

I'm just wondering if that phrase has become Schaub's first name or middle name
:D

HJam72
09-19-2009, 12:49 PM
Question:
Is it Matt "if he stays healthy" Schaub
or
If he stays healthy, Matt Schaub.

I'm just wondering if that phrase has become Schaub's first name or middle name
:D

I thought it was Matt "Ben Taub" Schaub.

HJam72
09-19-2009, 12:49 PM
Some of you guys are starting to want him benched...., so you can rest assured he will finally stay healthy, lol.

JDizzle
09-19-2009, 12:58 PM
Some of you guys are starting to want him benched...., so you can rest assured he will finally stay healthy, lol.

Right now I think he's our best guy and don't want him benched. What I'm concerned about is longevity and is he a true franchise quarterback?

HJam72
09-19-2009, 01:06 PM
Right now I think he's our best guy and don't want him benched. What I'm concerned about is longevity and is he a true franchise quarterback?

Honestly, I doubt it; but, our coaches and/or O-line made him look much worse than he is last Sunday. He's good enough that I might even say he is a franchise QB, but not for this system.

JDizzle
09-19-2009, 01:15 PM
Honestly, I doubt it; but, our coaches and/or O-line made him look much worse than he is last Sunday. He's good enough that I might even say he is a franchise QB, but not for this system.

This system relies heavily on an effective running game and whenever that gets neutralized it seems the team and Schaub play poorly. Perhaps this is just a downside to our offense but Schaub hasn't struck me as the type of QB who can overcome that. To be fair though, Kubiak hasn't been able to overcome it either, so I get what you're saying.

DocBar
09-19-2009, 03:15 PM
Last weeks game was not Scaubs fault. He didn't look good, but he really had no chance to. The coaching staff did a horrible job of gameplanning, making in-game adjustments and calling the game. As fans, we went from playoff bound if Schaub stays healthy to we can't win if Schaub is our QB, based on one game? That's ridiculous. He is a good QB. Maybe he isn't a HOFer, but he's certainly better than anyone else on the team. Put your panick buttons away and let's see what happens tomorrow.

CloakNNNdagger
09-19-2009, 03:50 PM
Last weeks game was not Scaubs fault. He didn't look good, but he really had no chance to. The coaching staff did a horrible job of gameplanning, making in-game adjustments and calling the game. As fans, we went from playoff bound if Schaub stays healthy to we can't win if Schaub is our QB, based on one game? That's ridiculous. He is a good QB. Maybe he isn't a HOFer, but he's certainly better than anyone else on the team. Put your panick buttons away and let's see what happens tomorrow.

The problem is that this has been a repeated problem from day 1. The players have had to play at least somewhat decently in order to overcome this perennial coaching problem...........most of the time, they haven't.

DocBar
09-19-2009, 06:04 PM
The problem is that this has been a repeated problem from day 1. The players have had to play at least somewhat decently in order to overcome this perennial coaching problem...........most of the time, they haven't.I don't really have an answer for that. After last season, it seemed like we had turned the corner on offense and with a few tweaks, we would improve on redzone O and turnovers. Defense was where the biggest questions were. The D played a very good half on run D and had breakdowns on 3rd & long. In a word, fixable. We missed several turnovers by inches last week. We get those, and who knows how the game turns out? The offense not being able to sustain drives wore the D out and turned a close contest into a blowout. Did Kubes take the Jets too lightly? I don't understand why Kubes and Co. can't make in-game adjustments. He wouldn't even give CB more carries when it was obvious he was more effective. I hate to think of changing coaching staffs, but that's looking more and more like the best route. We have the talent, on both sides of the ball, to be a competitive team, but we never seem to get the most out of that talent. That's a coaching problem, pure and simple.

ObsiWan
09-19-2009, 07:39 PM
Last weeks game was not Scaubs fault. He didn't look good, but he really had no chance to. The coaching staff did a horrible job of gameplanning, making in-game adjustments and calling the game. As fans, we went from playoff bound if Schaub stays healthy to we can't win if Schaub is our QB, based on one game? That's ridiculous. He is a good QB. Maybe he isn't a HOFer, but he's certainly better than anyone else on the team. Put your panick buttons away and let's see what happens tomorrow.

I just had a "if HWWNBN had a better O-line and more receivers..." flashback when I read that first sentence.
I don't mean any harm, but that sounds an awful lot like excusing Schaub from blame.

The way I understand it, and you guys who might know better correct me if this is wrong, but the QB sits in on the game-planning too. So if a faulty game plan was the issue, then he's part of the problem.
So no. Schaub cannot be absolved from blame.
No way.

CloakNNNdagger
09-19-2009, 07:44 PM
I just had a "if HWWNBN had a better O-line and more receivers..." flashback when I read that first sentence.
I don't mean any harm, but that sounds an awful lot like excusing Schaub from blame.

The way I understand it, and you guys who might know better correct me if this is wrong, but the QB sits in on the game-planning too. So if a faulty game plan was the issue, then he's part of the problem.
So no. Schaub cannot be absolved from blame.
No way.

In no way can you absolve Schaub for a lot of things. But, if Schaub is not allowed to audible, I logically have to question how much input he is truly allowed when it comes to final game planning?

ObsiWan
09-19-2009, 07:50 PM
In no way can you absolve Schaub for a lot of things. But, if Schaub is not allowed to audible, I logically have to question how much input he is truly allowed when it comes to final game planning?

Both of those things, not letting your QB audible and having minimal input in game plan formation, are very disturbing.
Maybe it's a control freak thing on the part of Kubiak. And strangely enough, that would be good news. Because the alternative explanation is that he has little faith in his QB's football smarts.
The latter is kinda hard to believe because Schaub seems to make good reads and goes thru his progressions properly.
...so maybe it's a control freak thing on Kubiak's part.

DocBar
09-19-2009, 10:41 PM
I just had a "if HWWNBN had a better O-line and more receivers..." flashback when I read that first sentence.
I don't mean any harm, but that sounds an awful lot like excusing Schaub from blame.

The way I understand it, and you guys who might know better correct me if this is wrong, but the QB sits in on the game-planning too. So if a faulty game plan was the issue, then he's part of the problem.
So no. Schaub cannot be absolved from blame.
No way.I can see where you would think that, but it isn't the case. Schaub isn't above reproach by any means, but Sunday wasn't his loss. It was Kubiaks. If Kubiak suddenly doesn't trust the QB, who he gave 2 2nd round picks for, to make the right read and audible us out of a bad play, then then Kubes needs to join the ranks of the unemployed. Schaub has proven he can throw the ball well. He's no Steve Young scrambling, but he's not Dan Marino or Bernie Kosar, either. Given reasonable protection, he makes the right throw...most of the time. The offense we saw last Sunday was offensive in all phases, so we can't just say it was Schaub's fault and put in O or G, expecting better results. BTW, I have no idea how much input players
have on game planning.

MEGA SWATT
09-20-2009, 11:48 AM
David Carr was durable as heck, had a strong azz arm, was mobile and had a sick crossover move that he used to get into the endzone on a busted play doing his best runningback impersonation.........then we get rid of him for David Carr-light.:user::voodoo::bat::goodpost::shades:

DocBar
09-20-2009, 12:39 PM
How have we gone from the 3rd ranked offense in total yds during '08 and everyone, rightfully so, questioning ONLY Schaubs durability to Schaub being compared to David Carr? One game, against a defense that completely overwhelmed our entire offensive effort, is justification for this? I think we, as fans, are being a little overcritical of the situation and are getting panicky.

DocBar
09-20-2009, 03:40 PM
Where is everyone? I hope you're watching Schaub having a pretty good day in Nashville. Can we drop these kind of threads for a while?

Goatcheese
09-20-2009, 04:45 PM
Where is everyone? I hope you're watching Schaub having a pretty good day in Nashville. Can we drop these kind of threads for a while?

No, because Schaub didn't break any league records.

That means he's terribad.

infantrycak
09-20-2009, 04:46 PM
Yeah Schaub sucks in this offense. 158.333 QB rating.

Thorn
09-20-2009, 04:49 PM
Schaub, like the Texans, is hot and cold. Last week cold, today hot as hell. When he starts showing consistency for an entire season instead of individual games, then the critics will be silent.

And he was damn good today.

gafftop
09-20-2009, 04:56 PM
Please read original post. Matt was much more mobile today.

infantrycak
09-20-2009, 05:05 PM
Please read original post. Matt was much more mobile today.

Sorry, but I read the original post. It contained this:

Even when 110% MS is not the most mobile QB.

So the assertion wasn't just when Schaub had a bum ankle. Schaub fits our system well, more than well. This system doesn't need a Michael Vick. In fact Vick sucked in this system.

gafftop
09-20-2009, 05:15 PM
I will stand behind that. He will never be the most mobile. i agree he does not need to be though. The O line gave him a chance today, plus he was healthier.

TimeKiller
09-20-2009, 05:17 PM
How 'bout them apples? 4 TDs was it?

IN THE SAME GAME?!?

Was that the Houston Texans?

gafftop
10-16-2011, 07:37 PM
I heard on the radio MS can be successful only if all the planets align. Well the planets aren't aligned in the Texans offense. Let's look more closely. Even when 110% MS is not the most mobile QB. MS is not the most durable QB. MS not great arm stength. The Texans' line is not the most dominant line. The lack of mobility (especially last week against the Jets, ankle) of MS means that he can't buy any time and make something happen unlike some other QB's that are able to scramble and allow the receivers to create. Therefore we can't utilize AJ physical talents on a busted play. This is even made worse because MS can't affford to take a hit, unlike some QB's that can stay in the pocket until the last second and let the play develope. If we had a QB that could take a hit we would gain some time, or if we had a QB that could scramble and buy some time we could maybe make some conpletions and maybe come up with the big play. We have the receivers to do this but due to the above factors we were unable to do this last week against the Jets. That is why the offense was so pitiful. I understand the PROBLEM is our offensive line. But our offensive line may be just what is was last week for the entire season. The more i write the more depressed I become. The defense only needs to shut down AJ with double coverage and get after MS and we have last week's outcome again this week. I guess what I am getting at is if MS is not healthy and mobile and Kubiak is determined to play MS no matter what like last week, we will have a repeat of last week. I was a Kubiak fan until last week. His inability to get the team up and prepared along with the POOR judgement in playing MS really makes me wonder. I guess getting back to the title, with our Oline we would be better off with a very mobile QB or a QB that can take a hit every once in a while. We have neither in MS. Would appreciate comment that give me some hope. thanks

2009 posted

gafftop
12-30-2012, 07:48 PM
I heard on the radio MS can be successful only if all the planets align. Well the planets aren't aligned in the Texans offense. Let's look more closely. Even when 110% MS is not the most mobile QB. MS is not the most durable QB. MS not great arm stength. The Texans' line is not the most dominant line. The lack of mobility (especially last week against the Jets, ankle) of MS means that he can't buy any time and make something happen unlike some other QB's that are able to scramble and allow the receivers to create. Therefore we can't utilize AJ physical talents on a busted play. This is even made worse because MS can't affford to take a hit, unlike some QB's that can stay in the pocket until the last second and let the play develope. If we had a QB that could take a hit we would gain some time, or if we had a QB that could scramble and buy some time we could maybe make some conpletions and maybe come up with the big play. We have the receivers to do this but due to the above factors we were unable to do this last week against the Jets. That is why the offense was so pitiful. I understand the PROBLEM is our offensive line. But our offensive line may be just what is was last week for the entire season. The more i write the more depressed I become. The defense only needs to shut down AJ with double coverage and get after MS and we have last week's outcome again this week. I guess what I am getting at is if MS is not healthy and mobile and Kubiak is determined to play MS no matter what like last week, we will have a repeat of last week. I was a Kubiak fan until last week. His inability to get the team up and prepared along with the POOR judgement in playing MS really makes me wonder. I guess getting back to the title, with our Oline we would be better off with a very mobile QB or a QB that can take a hit every once in a while. We have neither in MS. Would appreciate comment that give me some hope. thanks

I guess I am trying to figure out if we can salvage THIS season. Again I agree a better offensive line is the answer and very possibly that is the ONLY answer.Nothing else may make a substantial difference in the overall outcome. I do think Ben would do better than MS did against the Jets only because he could have bought some time and probably had some success. Would it have made a difference in the overall outcome? Maybe, maybe not. Little things can make differences. If Slaton had not fumbled that might have changed the course of the game.The question is would Ben have survived, I think so. If MS did the same thing and took the same hits would he have survived? I think the Texans/MS by design or by instinct have decided that MS can not afford to get hit and take a chance of injury. AGAIN I hope the ankle was the reason for the poor showing. And again I think MS is just barely mobile enoughwhen healthy to be effective against a good pass rushing defense with our offensive line. Do I think Gross/Orv would be better, I am not sure but I am afraid we will find out. Let's just hope that NY Jets have a GREAT defense and from here on it will get easier.Again all above my opinion only.

I have heard it a couple of different times that MS is limited by the coaching staff as to making changes. If this is true I think it is wrong unless I am missing something. When do they turn the speakers off? Well a lot of things change after those speakers go out. Unless MS is Carrlike I think he needs the opportunity to make changes. If he is that Carrlike ...........

This is Post started 9/2009 over 3 years ago
Schaub has lost what little mobility he had and i think arm strength has gotten worse or he needs wind up now to throw the ball.

Just posted to remind some of you in case you think something may change in the future.

Matt is Matt period. Not his fault he is what he is. I think the FO/coaching staff needs to be more objective and realistic and realize what they have.

Maybe they know and are in a wait and hold pattern but then why resign him before this season.

Hervoyel
12-30-2012, 07:49 PM
Didn't see the zombie thread until it was too late. Disregard