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View Full Version : were the Oilers REALLY that good?


buckaroo_banzai
09-16-2009, 12:45 PM
look, i know i'm going to upset some fans and that's not my intention.
it's just that as i'm doing a little research, i find that the Oilers had numerous stretches of losing seasons in a row (some lasting 6-7 years at a time) throughout the decades from 1960 on. :headhurts:
did fans go bonkers during the down times then too? did people want Pastorini or Moon gone (like Schaub), or Earl Campbell to go to a real playoff contender before his career was wasted in Houston to get a SB ring (like A. Johnson), did they say "fire Bum Phillips" or "fire Jack Pardee" (like they do Kubiak)?
why don't the Texans get the same amount of patience as the Oilers? i realize the Texans haven't even had a winning season or even sniffed the playoffs, but there were long streaks of bad years with the Oilers too.
is it just hindsight being 20/20 that the Oilers had some great players and games, and that's why they are remembered so fondly?
i'm just curious....i grew up in cowboy country and those fans are insane to begin with, but incredibly loyal.

neither the Texans or the Oilers have won a Superbowl and i'm just a little bewildered about the fans reactions toward the current team. i thought that being a fan was to stick with them through thick and thin.

i get frustrated too, but i do enjoy watching the current team and i'm glad that i get to see players like AJ and Mario and Demeco. this team is by and large more entertaining to watch than some of Capers and Co. teams.
in the end i'd rather be a fan of a bad Houston team than be a fan of the cowbags....i just wish some of these fans were as loyal as dallas fans, or steelers fans, or packers fans...i guess winning will fix all.:fans:

i guess it could be worse, we could be lions fans and have 150 losing seasons...

let the flaming begin......:crazy:

gwallaia
09-16-2009, 12:47 PM
Thank God there were no message boards back in the days of the Oilers losing. I can't even imagine what it would have been like after the Buffalo game.

Damn Al Gore and his internet!

Vinny
09-16-2009, 12:49 PM
Yeah, the Oilers were a great product and outside of a few rebuilding years they were always in the playoff hunt. The team drafted as well as any team in the league with Mike Holovak running the war room (amazing Ladd Herzog didn't destroy the franchise single handedly, but I would like to thank him for his moon shot - best thing he ever did for his career here). There was never a feeling that the team didn't draft well or couldn't get back on track when they hit their down years since they weren't afraid to get rid of what doesn't work as soon as they spotted it...unlike the Texans. The Texans are doing 35mph in the 70mph NFL speed zones during their first decade.

Silver Oak
09-16-2009, 12:50 PM
I suffered through the worst years Bud could throw at me, and still remained a fan. Just my opinion, but like many have said the past few days, this team lacks an identity, whereas many of the worst Oiler teams had interesting characters, this team (perhaps because they are new?) reeks of vanilla.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Texan_Bill
09-16-2009, 12:54 PM
look, i know i'm going to upset some fans and that's not my intention.
it's just that as i'm doing a little research, i find that the Oilers had numerous stretches of losing seasons in a row (some lasting 6-7 years at a time) throughout the decades from 1960 on. :headhurts:
did fans go bonkers during the down times then too? did people want Pastorini or Moon gone (like Schaub), or Earl Campbell to go to a real playoff contender before his career was wasted in Houston to get a SB ring (like A. Johnson), did they say "fire Bum Phillips" or "fire Jack Pardee" (like they do Kubiak)?
why don't the Texans get the same amount of patience as the Oilers? i realize the Texans haven't even had a winning season or even sniffed the playoffs, but there were long streaks of bad years with the Oilers too.
is it just hindsight being 20/20 that the Oilers had some great players and games, and that's why they are remembered so fondly?
i'm just curious....i grew up in cowboy country and those fans are insane to begin with, but incredibly loyal.

neither the Texans or the Oilers have won a Superbowl and i'm just a little bewildered about the fans reactions toward the current team. i thought that being a fan was to stick with them through thick and thin.

i get frustrated too, but i do enjoy watching the current team and i'm glad that i get to see players like AJ and Mario and Demeco. this team is by and large more entertaining to watch than some of Capers and Co. teams.
in the end i'd rather be a fan of a bad Houston team than be a fan of the cowbags....i just wish some of these fans were as loyal as dallas fans, or steelers fans, or packers fans...i guess winning will fix all.:fans:

i guess it could be worse, we could be lions fans and have 150 losing seasons...

let the flaming begin......:crazy:

Actually many did say "Fire Jack Pardee". Warren Moon was damn near run out of town. There are still some people that don't think the Oilers would have ever won anything with Moon at the helm because he wasn't a leader (myself included).

With that said and as Gwallaia mentioned, it's the age of the internet. It's the age of facebook and twittering. None of these were prevelant during the Oilers days. The only source of sports communication was television and the newspapers (Chronicle and Post).

Brando
09-16-2009, 01:03 PM
Yeah, the Oilers were a great product and outside of a few rebuilding years they were always in the playoff hunt. The team drafted as well as any team in the league with Mike Holovak running the war room (amazing Ladd Herzog didn't destroy the franchise single handedly, but I would like to thank him for his moon shot - best thing he ever did for his career here). There was never a feeling that the team didn't draft well or couldn't get back on track when they hit their down years since they weren't afraid to get rid of what doesn't work as soon as they spotted it...unlike the Texans. The Texans are doing 35mph in the 70mph NFL speed zones during their first decade.

What moon shot are you talking about? His "wedding moon shot" or signing Warren Moon? :)

:barman:

Vinny
09-16-2009, 01:07 PM
What moon shot are you talking about? His "wedding moon shot" or signing Warren Moon? :)

:barman:the wedding....Didn't he disappear shortly after he mooned those folks?

Hervoyel
09-16-2009, 01:12 PM
I moved this thread out of the Texans Talk forum. This is about the Oilers so it's NFL history in my eyes, not "Texans Talk". If I'm mistaken the Vinny or Hook'em please feel free to reverse the move.

badboy
09-16-2009, 01:12 PM
look, i know i'm going to upset some fans and that's not my intention.
it's just that as i'm doing a little research, i find that the Oilers had numerous stretches of losing seasons in a row (some lasting 6-7 years at a time) throughout the decades from 1960 on. :headhurts:
did fans go bonkers during the down times then too? did people want Pastorini or Moon gone (like Schaub), or Earl Campbell to go to a real playoff contender before his career was wasted in Houston to get a SB ring (like A. Johnson), did they say "fire Bum Phillips" or "fire Jack Pardee" (like they do Kubiak)?
why don't the Texans get the same amount of patience as the Oilers? i realize the Texans haven't even had a winning season or even sniffed the playoffs, but there were long streaks of bad years with the Oilers too.
is it just hindsight being 20/20 that the Oilers had some great players and games, and that's why they are remembered so fondly?
i'm just curious....i grew up in cowboy country and those fans are insane to begin with, but incredibly loyal.

neither the Texans or the Oilers have won a Superbowl and i'm just a little bewildered about the fans reactions toward the current team. i thought that being a fan was to stick with them through thick and thin.

i get frustrated too, but i do enjoy watching the current team and i'm glad that i get to see players like AJ and Mario and Demeco. this team is by and large more entertaining to watch than some of Capers and Co. teams.
in the end i'd rather be a fan of a bad Houston team than be a fan of the cowbags....i just wish some of these fans were as loyal as dallas fans, or steelers fans, or packers fans...i guess winning will fix all.:fans:

i guess it could be worse, we could be lions fans and have 150 losing seasons...

let the flaming begin......:crazy:If you enjoy football, not only the game but the things behind the scenes, research the Oilers. There is tons of info especially about the early days when Adams and the owner of the now named Chiefs started the AFL that eventually merged with NFL. The Houston Chronicle recently did articles on that and it is quite interesting. John McClain, like him or not is a very good historian of characters and funny stories. He has talked on the radio about getting called into Jerry Glanvilles office and having the coach lock the door and threaten to whip the writer's butt. Yes, the Oilers had very bad years & I struggled through each but the team also had seven consecutive years of going to the playoffs. Dan Pastorini was reviled and one memorial review said the night before a game, the players were partying and Dante stood outside and threw a football at a team mate on a balcony two or three floors up (I forget the number) and a sportswriter wrote the next day "and Pastorini over threw that receiver too."
Dante had his California looks going on way before Carr and then he was traded for Ken "the Snake" Stabler who had a few articles written about his boozing and then starting next day with a hangover. Pastorini now is talked about as if he was a "god". He did have a flak jacket created so he could play with broken ribs. He definitely was not soft. The speed boat he raced crashed on to shore, hurting some and killing one, I think. I still think there were not too many better rivalries and games than between Oilers and Steelers.

Our Texans have a little ways to go yet.

Texan_Bill
09-16-2009, 01:12 PM
I suffered through the worst years Bud could throw at me, and still remained a fan. Just my opinion, but like many have said the past few days, this team lacks an identity, whereas many of the worst Oiler teams had interesting characters, this team (perhaps because they are new?) reeks of vanilla.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


I.E. 1983 season 2-14, but Earl rushed for 1,300 yards. Archie Manning started 3 games. Robert Brazile. Greg Bingham.... etc. etc.

Vinny
09-16-2009, 01:13 PM
I moved this thread out of the Texans Talk forum. This is about the Oilers so it's NFL history in my eyes, not "Texans Talk". If I'm mistaken the Vinny or Hook'em please feel free to reverse the move.

you're good.

badboy
09-16-2009, 01:19 PM
the wedding....Didn't he disappear shortly after he mooned those folks?Yeah, there was another issue about him owing thousands of dollars in child support also. No one knew why he disappeared, but he did show up much later in Galveston.

As a side note and I wished my memory was better, I recently watched part of an interview on channel 55 and the reporter was talking with a former Oiler CB. He asked the player what do you think about all today's players being so big and so fast not like in your day. The Oiler said something like "well I am 6 foot and ran a 4.4 40 I don't know what you are talking about." The reporter looked surprised and tried to cover up. Not much research done on his guest.

ObsiWan
09-16-2009, 01:24 PM
Actually many did say "Fire Jack Pardee". Warren Moon was damn near run out of town. There are still some people that don't think the Oilers would have ever won anything with Moon at the helm because he wasn't a leader (myself included).

With that said and as Gwallaia mentioned, it's the age of the internet. It's the age of facebook and twittering. None of these were prevelant during the Oilers days. The only source of sports communication was television and the newspapers (Chronicle and Post).

I'll never understand that thinking (or actually LACK of thinking). With Moon as QB we went to the playoffs 5 years in a row. We sunk to 2-14 the year after Moon was "run out of town". The year before Moon led us to a 12-4 record - at the time, the best in franchise history.

ObsiWan
09-16-2009, 01:36 PM
look, i know i'm going to upset some fans and that's not my intention.
it's just that as i'm doing a little research, i find that the Oilers had numerous stretches of losing seasons in a row (some lasting 6-7 years at a time) throughout the decades from 1960 on. :headhurts:
did fans go bonkers during the down times then too? did people want Pastorini or Moon gone (like Schaub), or Earl Campbell to go to a real playoff contender before his career was wasted in Houston to get a SB ring (like A. Johnson), did they say "fire Bum Phillips" or "fire Jack Pardee" (like they do Kubiak)?
why don't the Texans get the same amount of patience as the Oilers? i realize the Texans haven't even had a winning season or even sniffed the playoffs, but there were long streaks of bad years with the Oilers too.
is it just hindsight being 20/20 that the Oilers had some great players and games, and that's why they are remembered so fondly?
i'm just curious....i grew up in cowboy country and those fans are insane to begin with, but incredibly loyal.

neither the Texans or the Oilers have won a Superbowl and i'm just a little bewildered about the fans reactions toward the current team. i thought that being a fan was to stick with them through thick and thin.

i get frustrated too, but i do enjoy watching the current team and i'm glad that i get to see players like AJ and Mario and Demeco. this team is by and large more entertaining to watch than some of Capers and Co. teams.
in the end i'd rather be a fan of a bad Houston team than be a fan of the cowbags....i just wish some of these fans were as loyal as dallas fans, or steelers fans, or packers fans...i guess winning will fix all.:fans:

i guess it could be worse, we could be lions fans and have 150 losing seasons...

let the flaming begin......:crazy:

You're right. It is. I'm still a Texan fan. I'm just not happy with them right now.

And if you check the records, the Lions were competitive in the 80s and 90s. As I mentioned in another thread, they went to the playoffs six times in the 90s. Of course, they had a pretty decent defense, a stud WR in Herman Moore, and stud RB ...some dude named Barry Sanders...

I found this Lion tidbit very interesting:
in 1991, they lost to their first game (on national TV) 45-0 to the Redskins. They finished that season 12-4, won their division, and beat the Cowboys for their first playoff win since the 50s.

Maybe a wake-up call is a good thing.

Vinny
09-16-2009, 01:38 PM
Maybe a wake-up call is a good thing.NFL's Week 1 is in the books, so move on already
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-09-16/nfls-week-1-books-so-move-on-already

Texan_Bill
09-16-2009, 01:46 PM
I'll never understand that thinking (or actually LACK of thinking). With Moon as QB we went to the playoffs 5 years in a row. We sunk to 2-14 the year after Moon was "run out of town". The year before Moon led us to a 12-4 record - at the time, the best in franchise history.

Stop and think about your own post for a minute.... What happened in all 5 of those seasons? Losses (and some very poor losses at that). Is that all on Moon? Certainly not, but to steal a line from "Any Given Sunday": You're a goddamn quarterback! You know what that means? It's the top spot, kid. It's the guy who takes the fall. It's the guy everybody's looking at first - the leader of a team - who will support you when they understand you. Who will break their ribs and their noses and their necks for you, because they believe. 'Cause you make them believe. That's a quarterback.


You should go back and listen to some comments made by his teammates like Bruce Mathews and Haywood Jeffries. They've both commented about Moon's leadership skillz or lack thereof.

And for the record, it was 7 consecutive seasons. :)

ObsiWan
09-16-2009, 01:54 PM
NFL's Week 1 is in the books, so move on already
http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2009-09-16/nfls-week-1-books-so-move-on-already

Hey, I'm good.

My special meds
:shots:
have kicked in.

I've stepped away from the
:panic:

I'm cool.
:thumbup:
...really.

chicagotexan2
09-16-2009, 02:02 PM
I started watching them from the mid 80's until the day they left. It seemed like they were a top tier team most that time. They were a very consistent team, but they inept in the playoffs. I loved that team, but once they left my city they left me. I hope the Texans bring that feeling back to Houston. And of course I hope they win the big one, but look at my avater to tell you how I feel.

Brando
09-16-2009, 03:45 PM
the wedding....Didn't he disappear shortly after he mooned those folks?


Yes he was gone shortly after that. That was a good thing, so was signing Warren Moon.

Vinny
09-16-2009, 04:37 PM
I started watching them from the mid 80's until the day they left. It seemed like they were a top tier team most that time. They were a very consistent team, but they inept in the playoffs. I loved that team, but once they left my city they left me. I hope the Texans bring that feeling back to Houston. And of course I hope they win the big one, but look at my avater to tell you how I feel.
That's why I hated the RnS. Kubiak's offense is a kissing cousin. It's generally great between the 20's and destroys bad teams but once you play top defenses you may move the ball but it takes physical play to punch it in when the field shrinks and defenses no longer have to defend the field vertically. A few finesse offenses have done well in the playoffs but they are the exception, not the norm. Another factor is that finesse offenses do not tend to do well when the winter sets in and the field conditions degrade. Unless you win home field you are almost certain to play at least one game in the North Eastern USA.

76Texan
09-16-2009, 08:10 PM
That's why I hated the RnS. Kubiak's offense is a kissing cousin. It's generally great between the 20's and destroys bad teams but once you play top defenses you may move the ball but it takes physical play to punch it in when the field shrinks and defenses no longer have to defend the field vertically. A few finesse offenses have done well in the playoffs but they are the exception, not the norm. Another factor is that finesse offenses do not tend to do well when the winter sets in and the field conditions degrade. Unless you win home field you are almost certain to play at least one game in the North Eastern USA.

Another factor is that finesse offenses need to be consistent in execution to be good. The Texans constantly have breakdowns.

On any given play, if it's not the QB, then it's the blocking of the C, the G, the T, the TE, the FB, the RB, the receiver.

To be beaten physically is one thing.
To be slow to an assignment, or to miss an assignment is another thing.

brakos82
09-16-2009, 08:16 PM
if it's not the QB, then it's the blocking of the C, the G, the T, the TE, the FB, the RB, the receiver.

Thanks Madden. LOL

76Texan
09-17-2009, 10:06 AM
Madden had said "you got to beat 'em to the punch".
All there is to it; especially when you're supposed to be lighter on your feet, quicker, faster, more athletic, etc...

texanhead08
09-18-2009, 11:40 PM
The oilers are look at with rose colored glasses since they are gone. They had a lot of crap football for stretches that was some of the worst football the NFL has ever seen.

60-63 they were really good won first 2 AFL titles

64-66 they were terrible a couple of 4-10 finishes during those years

67-68 they were very average much like the texans and in a weak division they made the playoffs those years but in 67 they were crushed in the most lopsided championship game of AFL history 45-7

69-73 these are probably the worst years in the franchise has ever seen a couple of 1-13 yrs and a 17 game losing streak during these years.

74-80 these were some of the greatest years this city has ever seen from a fans perspective and older NFL fans always talk about this when they remember the Oilers.

78- 10-6 record and a loss in the AFC champsionship game
79- 11-5 record and the same
80- 11-5 record and a terrible showing in the playoffs against the raiders which was the end of the luv ya blue era.

81-86 another of the dark days although they were drafting some future stars its been pointed out they passed up on some future hall of famers. The 18 losing streak during this period was torture to watch. The best part about these years is most of the home games were blacked out so you didnt have to suffer watching this crap unless you actually went to the game.

87-93 These were some fun years but these teams were viewed as underachievers. This team had a number of pro bowl appearences by a number of players but they were usually one and done in the playoffs. The chokes against Denver, Buffalo, and Kansas City were what turned the city on Bud when he asked for a stadium.

94-96 The foundation was being laid for the Titans late 90's good teams but its a shame Houston as a lame duck city didn't get to enjoy what was being started.