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TexansFight
09-16-2009, 12:15 AM
While we are in year 8 of our never-ending journey to a winning season and the playoffs, the Atlanta Falcons have gone from sucking while breaking in a rookie Vick, a playoff team with Vick to being horrible after the Vick debacle to being reborn to a playoff team AGAIN by hiring Thomas Dimitroff who is extremely talented and up and coming personnel guy from a championship program in the Patriots.

They then hire a hard nosed no-nonsense defensive coordinator in Mike Smith. Most NFL fans hadn't heard of him but he has been perfect. He instilled an attitude from the beginning. I remember teams complaining last preseason that his teams were being too aggressive and having some cheap shots.

That is exactly what Jerry Glanville did with the Oilers. It's unfortunate that most remember him for being a buffoon but I will always be grateful for him in turning the Oilers around. The Oilers of the mid 80's were an even more of a laughing stock than the Texans. He realized that when you have a losing program you have to shake everything up. He instilled pride and toughness with shit like the special teams army helmet and it worked. He got his players to believe and excited the fan base.

Back to the Falcons, they then make the coup of the free agent season and snag Michael Turner and base their offense on a strong running game in order to protect their franchise QB. Oh, they then draft a franchise QB who is wise and mature beyond his years.

The Falcons are light years ahead of us and let me repeat since our inception they have gone from sucking before Vick to playoffs to sucking without Vick to becoming a playoff team again.

What we need to do first is identify the best and most successful organizations in the NFL. In my opinion the best comprise of the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, Colts, Ravens and now Atlanta. See who is the brains and is on the rise and whom we can snag. Alternatively, we can grab Floyd Reese who did great things with the Oilers/Titans and have him come here with a clean slate and hire a coach and develop a player acquisition strategy.

We have done it all wrong with Kubiak. We let an inexperienced head coach basically hire who we have as the GM. We have the blind leading the blind.

m5kwatts
09-16-2009, 12:23 AM
0-1 does not mean 0-16, lets see how this season plays out.

TexansFight
09-16-2009, 12:27 AM
0-1 does not mean 0-16, lets see how this season plays out.

Look at our pattern. It sucks and we go to Tennessee this week and they lost in a slugfest to Pittsburgh and were impressive and how physical they were on both sides of the ball. Compared to Pittsburgh, they view us like an off week because of how soft we are.

Atlanta has had FIVE COACHES since 2003 and they STILL have made the playoffs THREE TIMES since our inception in 2002, 2004 and 2008. Staying the course when you have a loser program is not something to crow about.

TexansFanatic
09-16-2009, 12:31 AM
Remember how we all thought we'd ruined Atlanta's next decade by taking Schaub from them just prior to the news breaking about Vick's criminal dark side?

We don't laugh at them so much any more...

m5kwatts
09-16-2009, 12:36 AM
Look at our pattern. It sucks and we go to Tennessee this week and they lost in a slugfest to Pittsburgh and were impressive and how physical they were on both sides of the ball. Compared to Pittsburgh, they view us like an off week because of how soft we are.

Atlanta has had FIVE COACHES since 2003 and they STILL have made the playoffs THREE TIMES since our inception in 2002, 2004 and 2008. Staying the course when you have a loser program is not something to crow about.

Hope so and catch them off guard next week. I fully expect us to look like a new team next week, better prepared at the very least.

And I think its too early for the "here we go again" posts is all.

m5kwatts
09-16-2009, 12:37 AM
Also, the Falcons have never had back-to-back winning seasons, just like the Texans.

I don't see a Lombardi Trophy to their name though, isn't that all thats really important here?

beerlover
09-16-2009, 12:40 AM
More than anything - Atlanta nailed the QB thing. Then followed that up by nailing the QB's best friend a big hard nosed RB. Those two things together via draft & free agency is how you build or rebuild a franchise.

I still have confidence in Gary & Rick to get the job done. Reasons could be ownership is holding them back from being more aggressive in free agency? the failed Carr experiment (still be having repurcusions, so they go another route, trading for a more established talent like Schaub instead of risking a 1st rd. pick again)? Remember the Texans traded the 18th pick to the Ravens so they could select Joe Flacco, guess that turned out ok for them too :polevault:

dc_txtech
09-16-2009, 12:44 AM
Chill out dude, it's a 5 year plan.

:sarcasm:


Honestly I'm not in the group of guys that has totally written off the season. I don't even want to see this place if we lose again next week.

Wolf6151
09-16-2009, 12:50 AM
Miami did the same thing, went from 1-15 to the playoffs in one year. The Texans on the other hand keep saying they want to build through the draft. Building through the draft is a good thing but it takes forever. By the time your ready to be a contender your original draft picks are gone due to FA, injury, or retirement so your stuck in a constant rebuilding mode.

TexansFight
09-16-2009, 01:00 AM
Chill out dude, it's a 5 year plan.

:sarcasm:


Honestly I'm not in the group of guys that has totally written off the season. I don't even want to see this place if we lose again next week.

I am a Texans diehard and am dying for just a sliver of hope that we are ready to kick ass and be a playoff team. I have always thought we have a chance to win. This week not so much. I always watch our games. For the first time, I am debating whether to do so.

LonerATO
09-16-2009, 01:04 AM
More than anything - Atlanta nailed the QB thing. Then followed that up by nailing the QB's best friend a big hard nosed RB. Those two things together via draft & free agency is how you build or rebuild a franchise.

I still have confidence in Gary & Rick to get the job done. Reasons could be ownership is holding them back from being more aggressive in free agency? the failed Carr experiment (still be having repurcusions, so they go another route, trading for a more established talent like Schaub instead of risking a 1st rd. pick again)? Remember the Texans traded the 18th pick to the Ravens so they could select Joe Flacco, guess that turned out ok for them too :polevault:

Problem is Gary doesnt like to draft a top runningback since he has had such good luck with late round gems. Rick also likes to get cheap free agents. i would add the Fins to that list since they have a good HC and you cant go wrong with the Big Tuna

GP
09-16-2009, 01:06 AM
I'm going to say something drastic:

There is way too many good games that will be on this weekend for me to watch the Texans unless the Texans are doing well.

If we float that annual turd out there, against Tenn like we always do, I won't hesitate to switch over and watch other games. And enjoy it.

This will mark the first time in 7 years that I can say this. I normally watch every Texans game no matter what happens. But this year, I'm going to enjoy myself and not risk getting depressed. If we get down by a couple of TDs in the first quarter, and it's "same crap, different Sunday" then I'm off to watch other games.

I think I have missed seeing a lot of good, competitive football for the past 7 years. Which is what makes it even more heart-breaking when we start off like we have for the past four years...I'm depriving myself of fun that I used to have a long time ago--Enjoying watching a good game.

And it makes the off-season even more difficult because I'm going on four years of not seeing good football (by solely watching the Texans).

I watched the Steelers/Titans game and watched every snap, and loved it.

I watched the Chargers/Raiders game and watched every snap, and loved it.

That's what made me snap back to reality: There's FUN out there if you'll take a chance and leave the Texans if they're sliding out crap burgers on Sunday to us.

LonerATO
09-16-2009, 01:06 AM
Miami did the same thing, went from 1-15 to the playoffs in one year. The Texans on the other hand keep saying they want to build through the draft. Building through the draft is a good thing but it takes forever. By the time your ready to be a contender your original draft picks are gone due to FA, injury, or retirement so your stuck in a constant rebuilding mode.

The fins basically got a good QB for nothing and also ran a college scheme all year long. I will say this Bill basically went nuts and got a bunch of "his guys" cheap as hell from the Cowboys since those where his players.

TexansFight
09-16-2009, 01:10 AM
The fins basically got a good QB for nothing and also ran a college scheme all year long. I will say this Bill basically went nuts and got a bunch of "his guys" cheap as hell from the Cowboys since those where his players.

Good coaches put their players in the best position to win. They craft schemes that best utilize the talent they have and not make the players adapt to schemes they are not equipped for. I have a lot of admiration for Sparano and his coaching staff for doing something unique with the Wildcat which is often not done in the copy cat and conservative NFL. Do you think Kubiak would have the balls and brains to come up with something like that. I sure as hell don't.

GP
09-16-2009, 01:11 AM
I am a Texans diehard and am dying for just a sliver of hope that we are ready to kick ass and be a playoff team. I have always thought we have a chance to win. This week not so much. I always watch our games. For the first time, I am debating whether to do so.

Read my previous post!

If you don't want to sit through the crap we're going to see from Houston on Sunday, then do what I will do: Switch over and watch another game.

Watching two teams battle it out, switching leads all game long, and coming down to the last few minutes to decide the victor is 100% what I need right now.

If (and that's a big, Kirstie Alley "IF" by the way) we end up playing well and keeping it a good game vs. Titans, then I will stay and watch it.

But if Matt starts hitting the deck, throws picks, we can't run the ball, AJ gets in his zombie funk'd out mood, and Kubiak stares at his laminated Denny's menu all day...well, I'm bolting.

I can't even say for certain that I'd even come back to the game if we happened to mount a comeback of some sorts. It's THAT bad for me right now, to be quite honest.

GP
09-16-2009, 01:13 AM
Good coaches put their players in the best position to win. They craft schemes that best utilize the talent they have and not make the players adapt to schemes they are not equipped for. I have a lot of admiration for Sparano and his coaching staff for doing something unique with the Wildcat which is often not done in the copy cat and conservative NFL. Do you think Kubiak would have the balls and brains to come up with something like that. I sure as hell don't.

Because a coach in his situation becomes a limiter of risk.

They become a maintenance guy who can't imagine taking a risk or doing something that might fail. He wouldn't want to be seen as having grasped at straws with a Wildcat play or two every game.

He'd rather fail HIS way, saying "Gee, I just set out to do what I know to do. I tried it my way. I gave it all I had."

I think the guy is locked away in his own private world. A thinner version of Eric Mangini, IMO.

TexansFight
09-16-2009, 01:15 AM
Read my previous post!

If you don't want to sit through the crap we're going to see from Houston on Sunday, then do what I will do: Switch over and watch another game.

Watching two teams battle it out, switching leads all game long, and coming down to the last few minutes to decide the victor is 100% what I need right now.

If (and that's a big, Kirstie Alley "IF" by the way) we end up playing well and keeping it a good game vs. Titans, then I will stay and watch it.

But if Matt starts hitting the deck, throws picks, we can't run the ball, AJ gets in his zombie funk'd out mood, and Kubiak stares at his laminated Denny's menu all day...well, I'm bolting.

I can't even say for certain that I'd even come back to the game if we happened to mount a comeback of some sorts. It's THAT bad for me right now, to be quite honest.

I have the NFL Sunday Ticket. I might as well use it to the fullest and not sully my Sunday NFL time with the Texans. :wild:

dc_txtech
09-16-2009, 01:16 AM
Read my previous post!

If you don't want to sit through the crap we're going to see from Houston on Sunday, then do what I will do: Switch over and watch another game.

Watching two teams battle it out, switching leads all game long, and coming down to the last few minutes to decide the victor is 100% what I need right now.

If (and that's a big, Kirstie Alley "IF" by the way) we end up playing well and keeping it a good game vs. Titans, then I will stay and watch it.

But if Matt starts hitting the deck, throws picks, we can't run the ball, AJ gets in his zombie funk'd out mood, and Kubiak stares at his laminated Denny's menu all day...well, I'm bolting.

I can't even say for certain that I'd even come back to the game if we happened to mount a comeback of some sorts. It's THAT bad for me right now, to be quite honest.

I had two games on at noon on Sunday, the Texans and the Cowboys. If you would rather watch the Cowboys than the Texans then be my guest but I will continue to support my team.

Goldensilence
09-16-2009, 01:22 AM
I think one thing lost in the Atl talk is being able to unload Mike Vick's contract and playing status.

There was no way the team was going to go anywhere with him at the helm.

GP
09-16-2009, 01:24 AM
I think one thing lost in the Atl talk is being able to unload Mike Vick's contract and playing status.

There was no way the team was going to go anywhere with him at the helm.

That, and getting Michael EFFIN Turner.

And Tony Gonzalez.

Other than that, there's not much to be jealous of. (sounds of weeping)...

Texanmike02
09-16-2009, 01:42 AM
OK try this for size. The two teams that we've mentioned in this, Miam and ESPECIALLY Atlanta play in TERRIBLE divisions. In Atlant's case, they have played in a terrible division for mot of our existence. If we didn't have to play INDY TENN and Jacksonville 2x every year we would have had a winning season by now. In fact if we were in the NFC south, we would have most likely been to the playoffs by now. I'm not excusing the past play, but lets be honest here.. there has not been one team other than the Patriots in EITHER of those divisions that has been consistantly good. Take either of the last two years, replace the TITANS/COLTS losses with say saints/TB/car games... yeah we prob win two or three more games a year. I've kept my mouth shut to this point, but ya'll are gonna go crazy.

Mike

Hookem Horns
09-16-2009, 02:27 AM
In my opinion the best comprise of the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, Colts, Ravens and now Atlanta.

As a Giants fan I am offended by the above. I can see the Steelers, maybe the Pats of late, OK maybe not the Pats since the Giants took them out in the SB. The Colts are a carpet bagging team with no tradition that got lucky in snagging both Peyton and Dungy, before that they were pretty much a joke of a franchise run by Bud Adamslike ownership. Same goes for the Ravens. The Eagles are the Titans/Oilers of the NFC (always manage to choke in the postseason despite a lot of regular season success). The Falcons have fielded some decent teams recently however do you REALLY consider the Falcons an elite NFL franchise? I wouldn't even put them in the top 16.

Man, you know it's REAL bad being a Texans fan when you are looking up to franchises like the Falcons.

I do get the gist of your post though. The Texans did not even resemble a real NFL team on Sunday. I drove the 2 1/2 hours down to Houston to the Texans game on Sunday (a total of about 12 hours wasted of my life including tailgating and the drive back). I DVRed the Giants/Redskins game to watch when I got back into Austin. After that debaucle from noon to 3 it was such a relief to me seeing real NFL football as I watched the Giants slobberknocking the Redskins around. The quality and class of the Giants organization is in another galaxy compared to the Texans. That is VERY frustrating especially 7 or 8 years into this.

TD
09-16-2009, 02:36 AM
The Falcons have fielded some decent teams recently however do you REALLY consider the Falcons an elite NFL franchise? I wouldn't even put them in the top 16.

Man, you know it's REAL bad being a Texans fan when you are looking up to franchises like the Falcons.

QFT, but new ownership has done a LOT for the Falcons in recent years and the franchise is on the rise. I don't see how you don't have them in the top 50% of the league...although probably not by a lot.

LonerATO
09-16-2009, 03:45 AM
As a Giants fan I am offended by the above. I can see the Steelers, maybe the Pats of late, OK maybe not the Pats since the Giants took them out in the SB. The Colts are a carpet bagging team with no tradition that got lucky in snagging both Peyton and Dungy, before that they were pretty much a joke of a franchise run by Bud Adamslike ownership. Same goes for the Ravens. The Eagles are the Titans/Oilers of the NFC (always manage to choke in the postseason despite a lot of regular season success). The Falcons have fielded some decent teams recently however do you REALLY consider the Falcons an elite NFL franchise? I wouldn't even put them in the top 16.

Man, you know it's REAL bad being a Texans fan when you are looking up to franchises like the Falcons.

I do get the gist of your post though. The Texans did not even resemble a real NFL team on Sunday. I drove the 2 1/2 hours down to Houston to the Texans game on Sunday (a total of about 12 hours wasted of my life including tailgating and the drive back). I DVRed the Giants/Redskins game to watch when I got back into Austin. After that debaucle from noon to 3 it was such a relief to me seeing real NFL football as I watched the Giants slobberknocking the Redskins around. The quality and class of the Giants organization is in another galaxy compared to the Texans. That is VERY frustrating especially 7 or 8 years into this.

The Giants have only been relevant as a elite team the last few years. Look before 2007 the Giants went 25-23 and The last time they made it to the SB before 2007 was 2000 and got blown out. The reason people call the Colts an elite team is they prove it every year by their record. I don't mean to trash your favorite team, but trying to say the Pats aren't the same since that SB lost is bs. The Giants are now set to always be in the playoff picture along with the Pats, Eagles, Colts and Steelers due to their great drafts and good coaching.

ObsiWan
09-16-2009, 05:29 AM
Look at our pattern. It sucks and we go to Tennessee this week and they lost in a slugfest to Pittsburgh and were impressive and how physical they were on both sides of the ball. Compared to Pittsburgh, they view us like an off week because of how soft we are.

Atlanta has had FIVE COACHES since 2003 and they STILL have made the playoffs THREE TIMES since our inception in 2002, 2004 and 2008. Staying the course when you have a loser program is not something to crow about.

If we played in the NFC South we'd have made the playoffs by now too.
If Atlanta was in the AFC South - say we swapped conferences - they'd be the cellar-dwellers that you perceive us to be.

And did you look at WHY they changed coaches?

Dan Reeves was burnt out. Remember, during their Super Bowl run (1998) he got pulled from the sidelines for medical reasons - I think he had to have quadruple bypass surgery. He was never quite the same after that. He took them to the playoffs one more time (2002) then had to give it up.

Wade Phillips was never gonna be "the man" in Atlanta. He was interim HC for 3 games when Reeves stepped down. You really gonna count this one?

Jim L. Mora (Jim Jr.) was coach for three seasons and probably would still be there if he hadn't mouthed off about Seattle being his "dream job". Well, his owner effectively said, "Okay, let me help you with that." He was let go at the end of that year (2006).

Bobby (the weasel) Petrino - do I reeeally have to explain this one?

Mike Smith. Let's see how this season unfolds for them. I have my doubts that they can make a repeat trip to the playoffs.

Like mk5watts said, they've never, EVER had back-to-back winning seasons. And they've been in the league 43 years only had 8 winning seasons - half of those were 9-7.

I understand your frustration.
We all feel it.
There just isn't any franchise you can point to that hasn't had an extended period of suckage.
None.
Pittsburgh sucked for 40-odd years until Chuck Knoll showed up. Same with the Packers before Vince. The Patriots sucked until the Kraft family took them over. The Raiders were once a stellar team, now they suck.
Even the Lions made the playoffs in the 80s (when Billy Sims was there) and the 90s (when Barry Sanders was there) the Lions made the playoffs six times. No one remembers that. Yeah, the suckatude Lions made the playoffs SIX TIMES in the 90s. ...then they hired Matt Millen...

My message:
Every team's fortunes run in cycles. don't be jealous of some other team's upturn. Our turn will come.
Everyone here is just reeeally ******in' ready for it to be OUR turn.
Like yesterday.
Me too.

thunderkyss
09-16-2009, 06:04 AM
While we are in year 8 of our never-ending journey to a winning season and the playoffs, the Atlanta Falcons have gone from sucking while breaking in a rookie Vick, a playoff team with Vick to being horrible after the Vick debacle to being reborn to a playoff team AGAIN by hiring Thomas Dimitroff who is extremely talented and up and coming personnel guy from a championship program in the Patriots.

Great post, but I think you're wearing Rose colored glasses or something. No doubt we are in year 8 of our journey, but we have no idea how it's going to turn out. If you were ever on the Smithiak bandwagon, Last Sunday is no reason to jump. He/they are due their criticism, but this season isn't over yet, and it's only year 4 for Kubiak. You can't lump the first 4 years of failure on him.

They then hire a hard nosed no-nonsense defensive coordinator in Mike Smith.


Dom Capers. He's got a good looking bunch up in Green Bay, Had a stout group of guys in Carolina.

Most NFL fans hadn't heard of him but he has been perfect. He instilled an attitude from the beginning. I remember teams complaining last preseason that his teams were being too aggressive and having some cheap shots.

& could be a one year wonder for all we know.

Back to the Falcons, they then make the coup of the free agent season and snag Michael Turner

I don't see much difference between grabbing Turner, or grabing Schuab. Schaub had the same buzz, when the Falcons franchised him.

and base their offense on a strong running game in order to protect their franchise QB.


Did he base his offense on a strong running game to protect his QB, or did he just happen to have a team that basically led the league in rushing 2 years prior?

Oh, they then draft a franchise QB who is wise and mature beyond his years.

David Carr, Matt Schaub.... what's your point? We missed. In year two, it looks like they didn't, but we'll see.

The Falcons are light years ahead of us and let me repeat since our inception they have gone from sucking before Vick to playoffs to sucking without Vick to becoming a playoff team again.


& that's the point. They were already an established organization with a history, and we weren't. They've gone through at least four head coaches in that time. I'd much rather be where we are now. I understand how that doesn't make sense, because of the results they've got, & the results we've had. But if there is three more head coaching changes in their future, with only one trip to the play-offs in the next 8 years, or one more head coaching change for us, and 6 years of play-off caliber football in those same ten years, I'm going with the 6 years of dominance. Which is where I think we're headed, and where I think they are headed. It took Cowher a while to build the Steelers. Bill Parcells started that thing up in New England. Jim Mora is on his second team, Mangenius is on his second team. Sean Peyton has had one year of good football, What was that guys name that took over for the Rams the year Kubiak took over here?

What we need to do first is identify the best and most successful organizations in the NFL. In my opinion the best comprise of the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, Colts, Ravens and now Atlanta. See who is the brains and is on the rise and whom we can snag.


At the time, Denver was in that group. We took their offensive Coordinator, and their up & coming personnel guy.

We have done it all wrong with Kubiak. We let an inexperienced head coach basically hire who we have as the GM. We have the blind leading the blind.

I think there's been more good than bad with Kubiak. The team needs work, but so does he. I think in the long run, he'll get it, and we'll reap the benefits.

Are we getting more talented or not? Are we playing better football or not? I think the answer is yes to both of those questions.

I don't look at the W-L record, because there are so many things outside of the coaches control that affects W-L. Shit happens, bottom line. But is the team playing good football? 4 years into this, no we are not, but we're playing better football than we used to....... that's just how bad things were.

Runner
09-16-2009, 07:35 AM
Honestly I'm not in the group of guys that has totally written off the season. I don't even want to see this place if we lose again next week.


Don't worry, tomorrow is Thursday. That is the day that posters will have cooled down, watched the game again, and discovered that of all the teams that lost, the Texans looked the best. Much better than last year.

Thorn
09-16-2009, 08:58 AM
Don't worry, tomorrow is Thursday. That is the day that posters will have cooled down, watched the game again, and discovered that of all the teams that lost, the Texans looked the best. Much better than last year.

Do not underestimate the depth of our depression and impatience with fate. After all, we are Houston fans.

drewmar74
09-16-2009, 09:21 AM
Don't worry, tomorrow is Thursday. That is the day that posters will have cooled down, watched the game again, and discovered that of all the teams that lost, the Texans looked the best. Much better than last year.

Do not underestimate the depth of our depression and impatience with fate. After all, we are Houston fans.

Gotta go with Thorn on this one. Last Sunday was awful and just like most others in here, I'm really sick of it.

When are we going to be in the "worst to first" category? When is "our time?"

rollinstone18
09-16-2009, 09:30 AM
if we played in the nfc south...

Mr. White
09-16-2009, 09:35 AM
if we played in the nfc south...

Signed,

the Miami Dolphins

Runner
09-16-2009, 09:36 AM
I don't know. Texans fans have just as long of a history as the team. The board is usually consistent. There really isn't anything being discussed now that wasn't discussed last summer, although there is more anger now. It was explained away then; one game shouldn't make much difference now...

Hervoyel
09-16-2009, 10:11 AM
Hope so and catch them off guard next week. I fully expect us to look like a new team next week, better prepared at the very least.

And I think its too early for the "here we go again" posts is all.


Fair enough. I believe that the Texans will prove definitively this weekend that we are indeed going again down the same old path but I'll wait until Sunday to say anymore about it.

To me Sunday really is the season in a nutshell. If they show up Sunday then there's hope in my mind. Even if they don't necessarily win there's hope. If they get the snot pounded out of them however then I think they're broken and can't be fixed in their current incarnation. To look as bad as they did Sunday and then go out next Sunday and not try to reclaim some of their dignity with a strong performance. That would be just disgusting to see.

I'm placing a lot of significance on next Sunday. I hope the Texans are as well.

Thorn
09-16-2009, 10:15 AM
I'm placing a lot of significance on next Sunday. I hope the Texans are as well.

If they don't show up again, I think that will say it all. What that means is, Kubiac coached teams are slow out of the gate and have to make up for it in the last part of the season. The Texans are not strong enough yet to make it to the playoffs in that scenerio.

Runner
09-16-2009, 10:36 AM
I think the Texans will play a lot better than last week in many games this year. I think the offense will step back up, and I think the defense will be better than last year.

I dont think it will be this week though. I think the Texans will look more like an NFL team and appear fired up and competing, but the Titans will be too good and yes, too tough.

Hooston Texan
09-16-2009, 11:00 AM
These were the Falcons records during the period of our existence:
2002: 9-6-1, won a playoff game in Lambeau
2003: 5-11, Vick missed first 12 games of the season
2004: 11-5, NFC championship game
2005: 8-8
2006: 7-9
2007: 4-12
2008: 11-5, playoffs

This wasn't a team that, in the last decade, consistently stunk it up. They had a couple of isolated terrible years that were linked to an unsettled situation at QB, but they were otherwise a pretty solid team. The 2007 season was a freak series of debacles that laid to waste an otherwise decent team. The Falcons were hardly starting from scratch when Smith took over (but no doubt knocking the ball out of the park at QB and RB helped).

Contrast: Houston. The Texans basically had a second expansion-team season in 2006. Only four players are still here who were on the team in 2005, and do we really miss anyone (other than perhaps DDW) from that 2005 team? For all intents and purposes, Kubiak inherited a great WR, an enigmatic CB, a solid OG and a good kicker along with a bunch of signed-off-the-street-level players. Before Carolina and Jacksonville ruined the expansion process for future new teams, most expansion drafts provided new teams with far more talent than what was on our shelf in January 2006.

Smith inherited an OK team with some history of recent success but with a couple of easily-identifiable holes. He didn't have to make over an entire roster on the fly. What we had was a couple of good players surrounded by guys that would struggle to make the rosters of other teams. Because Atlanta hit homeruns on their efforts to repair QB and RB, their improvement is dramatic. The task that we're still facing is creating an entirely new team from scratch. They'll be bumps, but we're getting there. Whether it we get "there" with our current coach/GM/QB or the next set is an open question, but it will get done.

GP
09-16-2009, 11:27 AM
If they don't show up again, I think that will say it all. What that means is, Kubiac coached teams are slow out of the gate and have to make up for it in the last part of the season. The Texans are not strong enough yet to make it to the playoffs in that scenerio.

Exactly.

My hopes for Kubiak were hinged upon the first 3 or 4 games of THIS season.

Just like David Carr had that extra year, so has Kubiak. And both guys are showing that they are not capable at their respective positions.

We can't do this every year in the AFC South, as well as in the AFC itself.

Making up ground every year is a joke. I am seriously bummed about it.

ObsiWan
09-16-2009, 12:23 PM
These were the Falcons records during the period of our existence:
2002: 9-6-1, won a playoff game in Lambeau
2003: 5-11, Vick missed first 12 games of the season
2004: 11-5, AFC championship game
2005: 8-8
2006: 7-9
2007: 4-12
2008: 11-5, playoffs

This wasn't a team that, in the last decade, consistently stunk it up. They had a couple of isolated terrible years that were linked to an unsettled situation at QB, but they were otherwise a pretty solid team. The 2007 season was a freak series of debacles that laid to waste an otherwise decent team. The Falcons were hardly starting from scratch when Smith took over (but no doubt knocking the ball out of the park at QB and RB helped).

Contrast: Houston. The Texans basically had a second expansion-team season in 2006. Only four players are still here who were on the team in 2005, and do we really miss anyone (other than perhaps DDW) from that 2005 team? For all intents and purposes, Kubiak inherited a great WR, an enigmatic CB, a solid OG and a good kicker along with a bunch of signed-off-the-street-level players. Before Carolina and Jacksonville ruined the expansion process for future new teams, most expansion drafts provided new teams with far more talent than what was on our shelf in January 2006.

Smith inherited an OK team with some history of recent success but with a couple of easily-identifiable holes. He didn't have to make over an entire roster on the fly. What we had was a couple of good players surrounded by guys that would struggle to make the rosters of other teams. Because Atlanta hit homeruns on their efforts to repair QB and RB, their improvement is dramatic. The task that we're still facing is creating an entirely new team from scratch. They'll be bumps, but we're getting there. Whether it we get "there" with our current coach/GM/QB or the next set is an open question, but it will get done.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Anyone looking for proof of how bad off we were just needs to take a close look who is still here from the 2005 roster. Let's seeee... Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Dunta Robinson, Kris Brown.... help me out here, I'm running out of names.

Mr. White
09-16-2009, 01:13 PM
The "Kubiak started out with less" argument doesn't really work for me.

Sean Payton had the same kind of turnover in 2006 at New Orleans and Tony Sparano had the same kind of turnover last year.

Both guys made the playoffs their first year.

Good coaches get it done.

Runner
09-16-2009, 01:20 PM
Anyone looking for proof of how bad off we were just needs to take a close look who is still here from the 2005 roster. Let's seeee... Andre Johnson, Chester Pitts, Dunta Robinson, Kris Brown.... help me out here, I'm running out of names.

That's one way to look at it. On the other hand, they could have kept some more of the players from the Texans 7-9 (oops, forgot to say 2-14) season. Instead they got rid of some middling younger talent to give "happy retirement" bonuses in the form of roster spots and money to players like Mike Flanagan and Brad Bedell, seemingly for services rendered elsewhere.

When old warhorses of this type left after a year or so, a huge void was left behind. This caused depth issues the team is still struggling with today. Even the marginal players the Texans alteady had on the roster could have performed as well as those duds, and still would have had some upside potential. They would also have provided serviceable depth and allowed the team to expend resources at other need positions (safety?) instead of requiring immediate replacement.

Other players for whom they wasted money and roster spots that come to mind are Eric Moulds and Ahman Green. I'm sure there are more I could remember if I went back and looked at rosters.

Kubiak and to a lesser extent Smith were given lots of leeway by the fans when they were pouring resources into some of these players. In my opinion they've done their share of damage to the team's roster when comparing where it is to where it could be.

Goldensilence
09-16-2009, 01:21 PM
The "Kubiak started out with less" argument doesn't really work for me.

Sean Payton had the same kind of turnover in 2006 at New Orleans and Tony Sparano had the same kind of turnover last year.

Both guys made the playoffs their first year.

Good coaches get it done.

Still think both of those guys had more talent to start with. That said I think both are head and shoulder above Kubiak in coaching, I mean look at who they learned the ropes from.

Texecutioner
09-16-2009, 01:35 PM
But what happened to all of the fans that said that Kubes and Smith was building this team the right way by doing it slowly???? Lol!

Hooston Texan
09-16-2009, 02:11 PM
That's one way to look at it. On the other hand, they could have kept some more of the players from the Texans 7-9 (oops, forgot to say 2-14) season. Instead they got rid of some middling younger talent to give "happy retirement" bonuses in the form of roster spots and money to players like Mike Flanagan and Brad Bedell, seemingly for services rendered elsewhere.

When old warhorses of this type left after a year or so, a huge void was left behind. This caused depth issues the team is still struggling with today. Even the marginal players the Texans alteady had on the roster could have performed as well as those duds, and still would have had some upside potential. They would also have provided serviceable depth and allowed the team to expend resources at other need positions (safety?) instead of requiring immediate replacement.

Other players for whom they wasted money and roster spots that come to mind are Eric Moulds and Ahman Green. I'm sure there are more I could remember if I went back and looked at rosters.

Kubiak and to a lesser extent Smith were given lots of leeway by the fans when they were pouring resources into some of these players. In my opinion they've done their share of damage to the team's roster when comparing where it is to where it could be.

Has anyone from the 2005 team that was let go by Kubiak gone on to become a starter or significant contributor to another NFL team? The only ones who appear to have done anything after 2005 were Robaire Smith, Antwawn Peek and Jabbar Gaffney. Smith and Peek were 3-4 guys who didn't really translate, and neither did all that much after leaving. Gaffney got to catch passes from Tom Brady, so he might be the only one to leave any kind of mark.

As to the comparisons to the Dolphins and Falcons (not in your post, Runner, but in another one), these were some of the players Sparano and Smith inherited:

Sparano: Ronnie Brown, Ricky Williams, Patrick Cobbs, Greg Camarillo, Vernon Carey, Ted Ginn, Samson Satele, Joey Porter, Matt Roth, Channing Crowder, their entire secondary, etc. Parcells did bring in some of his ex-Cowboys and then it all came together when Chad Pennington practically fell out of the sky.

Smith: his entire starting OL plus 1st round pick Sam Baker, Roddy White, Michael Jenkins, Ovie Mugheli, his starting DL (though I think he had to reacquire Grady Jackson), Keith Brooking, Michael Boley, Chris Houston, Lawyer Milloy among others.

So I re-ask, has anyone from the 2005 team gone on to become a useful player anywhere besides the ones we've already mentioned (Pitts/AJ/Dunta/Kr.Brown plus marginal guys like Robaire Smith, Peek and Gaffney)? There may be, but I am not aware of any.

Double Barrel
09-16-2009, 02:34 PM
lol @ Texans fans doggin' another team's history. Are you being serious?

We've never even had a winning record and can 'be proud' that we finally had a winning streak by year 7.

I think it's bad mojo to laugh at any other team's plight, all things considered.

ObsiWan
09-16-2009, 03:10 PM
The "Kubiak started out with less" argument doesn't really work for me.

Sean Payton had the same kind of turnover in 2006 at New Orleans and Tony Sparano had the same kind of turnover last year.

Both guys made the playoffs their first year.

Good coaches get it done.

B/S! neither had to rebuild from the ground up like we had to.
Both of those teams were 2-3 years removed from winning seasons. Have we EVER had one of those?

Runner
09-16-2009, 03:15 PM
Has anyone from the 2005 team that was let go by Kubiak gone on to become a starter or significant contributor to another NFL team?

The answer to this question is far more complex than checking the rosters of other teams. Areas to consider:

a) if a player gets cut early (for example after two years) and gets invited to a camp, is he at a disadvantage competing with players that this new team drafted two years ago? I think so, because the team already has famiarity and investment. For a marginal player, getting cut by the team that drafted you is very career limiting.

b) why do high draft picks get years to develop, but later picks get a much shorter time? It's about money, but it's backwards. Players that a team picks later to develop could be valuable to that team if they invest the time rather than cut and run. Time spent doing that development is better invested than paying off hobbled old men. The team picked the young player for a reason - I think some might be contributors to the Texans by now. Again, a marginal young player is better depth than the hole left by a retired vet.

c) are all the best players in the league? If for example there are 64* QBs on rosters, are those the best 64 QBs available? I'd say no. One example is that not so long ago Kurt Warner was sacking groceries when he should have been playing.

*I know 64 is not the exact number.

etc.

jlam
09-16-2009, 03:26 PM
Still think both of those guys had more talent to start with. That said I think both are head and shoulder above Kubiak in coaching, I mean look at who they learned the ropes from.

This got me wondering. Guys who were contributors in 2006 who were on the Saints' roster in 2005:

1) Jamaal Brown (obviously a big one, although this was his 1st season at LT)
2) Joe Horn (declining big time, but still made some plays)
3) Deuce McAllister (also declining, but had a good year)
4) Will Smith and Charles Grant (meh, they were average)
5) Mike McKenzie (best CB by far, but not enough by himself)
6) Devery Henderson (soley a deep threat, especially then)
7) John Carney (kicker)

Everyone else was either mediocre (guys like Jamar Nesbit, Jon Stinchcomb, John Karney, Brian Young) or awful (Fred Thomas, Josh Bullocks).

Guys who were brought in that offseason:

Drew Brees (:worthy:), Marques Colston, Reggie Bush, Jeff Faine (C), Hollis Thomas (DT), Roman Harper, Jahri Evans, Scott Shanle, Scott Fujita, Mark Simoneau, and a littany of non-starters and special teamers.

So I guess you're left with comparing 1 - 7 above with guys on the Texans like Andre Johnson (better than any player from any group above other than Drew Brees), Dunte Robinson, David Carr (:facepalm:), Chester Pitts, Greenwood, and Babin. I'll admit that, for 2006 at least, the leftover talent was better for NO than for HOU. But there was still a ton of turnover in both cases.

The second group (offseason after 2005) is more comparable. Compare that group with Mario Williams, Kevin Walter, DeMeco Ryans, Owen Daniels, Anthony Weaver, Ron Dayne, Eric Moulds, and others I'm surely forgetting, and it's a good bit closer. The kicker is really Brees. That was the QB Powerball Jackpot.

I really didn't have much of a point with any of this, just expelling some wondering thoughts.

jlam
09-16-2009, 03:29 PM
B/S! neither had to rebuild from the ground up like we had to.
Both of those teams were 2-3 years removed from winning seasons. Have we EVER had one of those?

We were 6 years removed from a winning season, just for the record. Any contributors from that winning season besides Joe Horn (names like Aaron Brooks, Boo Williams, Ricky Williams, Laroi Glover, Jeff Blake, Joe Johnson, Sammy Knight) were long-ass gone.

Norg
09-16-2009, 03:41 PM
They play in the NFC

we play in the guntlet know has the AFC South and AFC

toronto
09-16-2009, 04:12 PM
I'm going to say something drastic:

There is way too many good games that will be on this weekend for me to watch the Texans unless the Texans are doing well.

If we float that annual turd out there, against Tenn like we always do, I won't hesitate to switch over and watch other games. And enjoy it.

This will mark the first time in 7 years that I can say this. I normally watch every Texans game no matter what happens. But this year, I'm going to enjoy myself and not risk getting depressed. If we get down by a couple of TDs in the first quarter, and it's "same crap, different Sunday" then I'm off to watch other games.

I think I have missed seeing a lot of good, competitive football for the past 7 years. Which is what makes it even more heart-breaking when we start off like we have for the past four years...I'm depriving myself of fun that I used to have a long time ago--Enjoying watching a good game.

And it makes the off-season even more difficult because I'm going on four years of not seeing good football (by solely watching the Texans).

I watched the Steelers/Titans game and watched every snap, and loved it.

I watched the Chargers/Raiders game and watched every snap, and loved it.

That's what made me snap back to reality: There's FUN out there if you'll take a chance and leave the Texans if they're sliding out crap burgers on Sunday to us.

Loved this post. After watching my Titans on Thursday nite, had the joy of really enjoying the Sunday/Monday, especially the two great games on Monday nite.

BigBull17
09-16-2009, 04:14 PM
They play in the NFC

we play in the guntlet know has the AFC South and AFC

And we would get rolled in the NFC as well. N.O and Minnisota curb stomped us in Pre season

DexmanC
09-16-2009, 04:16 PM
They play in the NFC

we play in the guntlet know has the AFC South and AFC

I think that's the point my fellow jaded Texans fans keep glossing over. The division we are in DEMANDS that any team in it, must
win 10 games to sniff the playoffs. None of our division champions
have EVER won a division title without winning at least 12 games.

When you add to the crap players we had, PLUS being in salary
cap hell (which we finally got out of LAST season), I'd cut Gary
some slack. To a man, the players were pissed about that
bullshit performance, and I expect them to show better on Sunday.

Let's not forget what Tony Dungy said about this team before the
season: "I believe the Texans are a confidence piece away from
becoming an elite team." The "bounce-back" game has been
something the Kubiak-era Texans have been known for.

LonerATO
09-16-2009, 04:23 PM
I just want to win the division while Manning is here.

thunderkyss
09-16-2009, 05:14 PM
The "Kubiak started out with less" argument doesn't really work for me.

Sean Payton had the same kind of turnover in 2006 at New Orleans and Tony Sparano had the same kind of turnover last year.

Both guys made the playoffs their first year.

Good coaches get it done.

Sean Peyton plays in the NFC, and the NFC South at that. He got a team with Duece McAllister, Jamal Brown, Joe Horn, Devery Henderson, Mike McKenzie, Mike Karney, Jeff Faine, Will Smith, Charles Grant, & Willie Whitehead.

The only reason the Saints went 3-13, or whatever, was because of Katrina.

Sparano, is a freakin genius with huge balls. I may be alone, but I bet the gimmicks don't work as well this year, & for one reason or another, they won't win more than 9 games. 1 hit wonder. That's all they are. He more than likely will be looking for another job3 years from now, without ever going to the play-ofs again.

HTown2ATX
09-16-2009, 05:36 PM
While we are in year 8 of our never-ending journey to a winning season and the playoffs....


LMAO...when I read this it made me come up with a new movie.

"The Never Ending Story 3: Texans"

It's a heart warming tale of a young boy (starring Gary Kubiak) who gets sucked into a world of small hearted men fighting massive giants everyday and finds a way to help them overcome their lack in talent and win.

LMAO....It may just be me that thinks that's funny I dunno...


And GP..
I just noticed your sig...hilarious!:stooges:

Goldensilence
09-16-2009, 05:55 PM
Sean Peyton plays in the NFC, and the NFC South at that. He got a team with Duece McAllister, Jamal Brown, Joe Horn, Devery Henderson, Mike McKenzie, Mike Karney, Jeff Faine, Will Smith, Charles Grant, & Willie Whitehead.

The only reason the Saints went 3-13, or whatever, was because of Katrina.

Sparano, is a freakin genius with huge balls. I may be alone, but I bet the gimmicks don't work as well this year, & for one reason or another, they won't win more than 9 games. 1 hit wonder. That's all they are. He more than likely will be looking for another job3 years from now, without ever going to the play-ofs again.

I think Sparano will be there a while with Parcells at calling the shots. I do agree on the gimmicks probably not being about to work so well this year. People will be much more prepared(Biting my tongue here). I do think they'll struggle in the division. Pats with a healthy Tom Brady, Jets, and Bill didn't look too bad vs the Pats. Going to be a tough division.

Though they helped themselves in the draft grabbing Vontae Davis and Sean Smith. I thought Pat White was one of the biggest draft gambles but, I guess we'll see if it pays off. They selected Patrick Turner in the 3rd round as well. With the emergence of Bess might not be a bad trio at WR in the next year or two. Definitely speed there.

Texan JBZ
09-16-2009, 05:58 PM
I have to admit it and come clean. The Falcons are my second favorite team and used to be my favorite team. I've followed them since Deion and Andre Rison, Ironhead, Pegram, Jamal Anderson, Glanville, the great Jessie Tuggle, etc. Two words why they are so successful right now: Thomas Dimitroff. He's young, ambitious, and has that NE Patriots front office pedigree. Plus, they've brought in and drafted some key players. Dahl is what the doctor ordered for our Texans. He's tough and nasty as hell. Baker and Clabo are solid as heck too. Dimitroff is proactive in free agency and wasn't afraid to pull the trigger on moves like Turner and Gonzalez. He also hit home runs with Ryan and Lofton. He's that good.