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rmartin65
11-25-2009, 10:42 AM
LMAO! Rather be a rep whore than a Vince Young nut hanger..... I mean, Jon Gruden... I used to like him, and thought he would be a good fit for us. After Monday might, NO WAY. I think he was auditioning for the Titans job should Jeff Fisher part ways with Bud.

And for that post, you receive rep. Nicely done!

Pollardized
11-25-2009, 10:55 AM
Thanks rmartin! By the way I have some serious man love for Toby Gerhart. That dude can run the ball. There was a good article on why he can't win the Heisman because he's white, and why black QBs can't win because they are playing a white position. Really was something to think about.

I can only imagine what we would look like with Toby running the ball, Matt at QB, our receivers and OD back, behind a solid, big OL. I don't think Kubiak would draft him though. Maybe if we had a new coach though......

mussop
11-25-2009, 11:23 AM
LMAO! Rather be a rep whore than a Vince Young nut hanger..... I mean, Jon Gruden... I used to like him, and thought he would be a good fit for us. After Monday might, NO WAY. I think he was auditioning for the Titans job should Jeff Fisher part ways with Bud.

Rep for not being a Young nutt hugger and dissing Gruden! :)

Mr. White
11-25-2009, 11:37 AM
Texans D as a 34?

Smith-Okoye-Mario
Barwin-Cushing-Ryans-Diles
1st round pick-Pollard-Quin-Reeves

That's kind of ugly. No, that's awful. Some interesting shuffling would have to take place and the mythical "space eating" DT would definitely be a priority. Casey Hampton following Cowher? What?! As long as were going down hypothetical situations.....maybe like:

Smith-Hampton-Okoye
Barwin-Cushing-Ryans-Williams
Quin-Pollard-Taylor Mays-Reeves

That would be fun.

My biggest concern is that our DT's are too small to fit into a 3-4. They'd either need to put on weight or they'd need to get replaced.

JB
11-25-2009, 11:46 AM
As an aside the Kubiak hot seat talk has officially gone national with Clayton yesterday and Mortensen today, which makes me happy. Now we will see if these players want to play for Kubiak.

Link?

Kaiser Toro
11-25-2009, 11:47 AM
Link?

Do not have one. Clayton yesterday and Mort today, both being interviewed on the Mike & Mike Show.

Cannot find the Clayton one, but here is the podcast for Mort.

http://espn.go.com/blog/afceast/post/_/id/6919/podcast-mort-on-mike-shanahan

ESPN senior NFL analyst Chris Mortensen doubts Mike Shanahan will go to Buffalo but also says that Bills owner Ralph Wilson has never gone after big-name coaches like this. Plus, Mortensen talks about concussions in the NFL and says Gary Kubiak may be on the hot seat in Houston.

eriadoc
11-25-2009, 12:16 PM
I'm not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon yet, but if he doesn't pull out a winning season, I want him gone. As I pointed out in the Kris Brown thread, there's a standard for the job. Anything but a winning season this year doesn't get the job done, and after four years, he should be gone. I like Kubiak, but there's a job to be done.

As I said in some other thread (maybe this one, now that they've all merged), Holmgren interests me more than Cowher. He's the only guy to coach two different SB teams, and he built them both.

Cowher wouldn't suck, though.

michaelm
11-25-2009, 12:37 PM
I don't like the 3/4. Capers ruined it for me. It's kind of like cherry tomatoes. I got a really rotten cherry tomato one time and I haven't touched one since. It left such a bad taste in my mouth that I never want to take that chance again. Dom Capers 3/4 is that cherry tomato and I never want that taste in my mouth again.

I love Cohwer, but leave the 4/3 intact and continue to build out our D as it is currently structured. There is no need whatsoever to blow up the building when all it needs is a fresh coat of paint. :chef:


Based on your logic, Richard Smith should've ruined the 4-3 for you to the same extent or more.

Pantherstang84
11-25-2009, 01:10 PM
I don't know if Kubiak has officially been placed on the hot seat, but I'm telling you that look on McNair's face after the game was priceless. He looked like he was ready to rip someone's head off. Good on him.

Personally, I was on the Gruden train until Monday night. That dude with VY's nuts on his chin wanted me to just hurl.

mussop
11-25-2009, 01:24 PM
My biggest concern is that our DT's are too small to fit into a 3-4. They'd either need to put on weight or they'd need to get replaced.



Here are five key ingredients that will make or break the transition to the 3-4:

1. Football IQ: The 3-4 requires players to have a reasonable football IQ, and it can’t be mastered overnight, even if the defensive coordinator knows the scheme like the back of his hand. The Tampa 2 was the last trendy defense to take the NFL by storm, but for all its wonderment, the byproduct was turning players into robots.

Cushing, Ryans, Mario, Dyles CHECK!

2. Elephant: This is the NFL’s equivalent of a hybrid. He is part defensive end, part linebacker, and is athletic enough to have limited coverage skills and physical enough to dominate an offensive tackle. DeMarcus Ware, Adalius Thomas, Terrell Suggs, Shawne Merriman and LaMarr Woodley are examples.

Barwin. CHECK!

3. Sidekick: This is another outside linebacker (like Greg Ellis, Mike Vrabel, Shaun Phillips and James Harrison) who has coverage skills but also can dominate a running back and occasionally beat an offensive tackle.

Cushing. CHECK!

4. Power pig: A 3-4 defense must have a nose guard who commands a double team on run plays. He has to be the master between the guards.

Okam, Frank DT 6-5 338 Texas
Cody, Shaun DT 6-4 310 Southern California
Robinson, DelJuan DT 6-3 320 Mississippi State
They have the size but do they have the skill?

5. The 5 Techniques: You need two defensive ends who can control the line of scrimmage. They need to be able to beat one-on-one matchups on pass plays but must be dominant in stopping the run.

Mario & Smith CHECK.


Mario, D Robinson?, Smith
Cushing, Ryans, Dyles, Barwin

Thats not a bad front 7. Lots of speed, smarts and talent in that group. Draft Rolando McLain LB Alabama, pick up a safety, big DT, guard and a Big RB in the rest of the draft and free agency and shazam we have a new team in the mold of Cowhers Pittburg teams. That would be the best LB in the NFL. Probably as good as any group Cowher ever coached.

SouthSideTexan
11-25-2009, 03:07 PM
Rumor on 790 is that Cowher is interested in the Texans if the opprotunity came along.... What do you all think now.....Wait and give Kubiak another year and miss out on Cowher or can Gary on Jan 4th and go after him? :beerfunnel:

GuerillaBlack
11-25-2009, 03:31 PM
Rumor on 790 is that Cowher is interested in the Texans if the opprotunity came along.... What do you all think now.....Wait and give Kubiak another year and miss out on Cowher or can Gary on Jan 4th and go after him? :beerfunnel:

McNair talks behind the scene to Cowher after the season is over. If Cowher really wants to sign, you fire Kubiak and hire Cowher.

nunusguy
11-25-2009, 03:37 PM
McNair talks behind the scene to Cowher after the season is over. If Cowher really wants to sign, you fire Kubiak and hire Cowher.

I dunno but seriously doubt if just firing Kubiak would bring Cower, however there might be some chance if McNair was willing to fire both Kubiak and Smith and hand Cower a blank check.

HOU-TEX
11-25-2009, 03:40 PM
McNair talks behind the scene to Cowher after the season is over. If Cowher really wants to sign, you fire Kubiak and hire Cowher.

Agreed! Unless we spank our opponent in all 6 games left. Which is not very likely

PHAROAH
11-25-2009, 03:40 PM
I think that Tony Dungy would be a perfect fit for the texans not sure if he is ready to come back but he would be my choice as he know this division inside out and he knows the colts weaknesses. My 2nd choice would be Mike Holmgren this guy knows how to run an organization and he would get the defense in order and he is very good with QB's.

Mr. White
11-25-2009, 03:43 PM
McNair talks behind the scene to Cowher after the season is over. If Cowher really wants to sign, you fire Kubiak and hire Cowher.

IIRC, that's what happened with Jimmy Johnson in 2005. Seems like it was during the season.

Dan B.
11-25-2009, 03:55 PM
Never wanted Gruden. He sounds like Tweety Bird.

Pollardized
11-25-2009, 03:57 PM
Never wanted Gruden. He sounds like Tweety Bird.

.... with Vince Young's nuts on his tonsils...

Shaft75
11-25-2009, 11:55 PM
Does anyone else think that cowher may be posturing and ultimately wants to force Carolinas hand?

rollinstone18
11-26-2009, 12:11 AM
Does anyone else think that cowher may be posturing and ultimately wants to force Carolinas hand?

maybe. but if cowher coaches any nfl team in texas i'll make a wager that it'll be the cowboys. jerry jones won't keep wade phillips if cowher makes himself available. and we all know who would win a bidding war between jerry and mcnair.

El Tejano
11-26-2009, 12:24 AM
maybe. but if cowher coaches any nfl team in texas i'll make a wager that it'll be the cowboys. jerry jones won't keep wade phillips if cowher makes himself available. and we all know who would win a bidding war between jerry and mcnair.

Jerry will do what it takes to pull Cowher away from us.

mussop
11-26-2009, 12:26 AM
maybe. but if cowher coaches any nfl team in texas i'll make a wager that it'll be the cowboys. jerry jones won't keep wade phillips if cowher makes himself available. and we all know who would win a bidding war between jerry and mcnair.



No way Cowher would work for Jones. NO WAY! Jones is a younger version of Al Davis.

GuerillaBlack
11-26-2009, 12:38 AM
No way Cowher would work for Jones. NO WAY! Jones is a younger version of Al Davis.

I always thought that Jones was a robot.

rollinstone18
11-26-2009, 12:44 AM
No way Cowher would work for Jones. NO WAY! Jones is a younger version of Al Davis.

jones ain't no rooney, but it's all about the benjamins. besides, the cowboys already have a 3-4 defense and decent pieces on offense. and realistically, who would turn down the opportunity to coach the cowboys?

Silver Oak
11-26-2009, 12:44 AM
and we all know who would win a bidding war between jerry and mcnair.

I would think Cowher would be the winner. :)

mussop
11-26-2009, 02:07 AM
jones ain't no rooney, but it's all about the benjamins. besides, the cowboys already have a 3-4 defense and decent pieces on offense. and realistically, who would turn down the opportunity to coach the cowboys?

Are you kidding? I dont understand where this McNair wont pay like Jones theory came from. When has he ever been cheap? And I bet if you asked any quality head coaching candidate who he would rather work for the majority would say McNair. Jones demands certain control that a coach like Cowher is not going to relinquish. I cannot imagine Cowher, Holgram, Shanny SR types who want total control wanting to put up with a medling owner like Jones. He is an Al Davis clone and look at the Raiders coaching candidates.

Think about it, look at all the coaches Dallas has had since Jimmy Johnson left. Tuna was the only top notch coach and look how that turned out. Yeh I know they got a big new fancy stadium and lots of money to throw around but coaches that have EARNED real respect arent going to want to have some no-itall owner that never coached a game, try and tell them how to do their thing. I beleive Tuna will be the last really good head coach Dallas will have had untill Jones is gone as Dallas's owner

houstonspartan
11-26-2009, 05:20 AM
jones ain't no rooney, but it's all about the benjamins. besides, the cowboys already have a 3-4 defense and decent pieces on offense. and realistically, who would turn down the opportunity to coach the cowboys?

I think we sometimes forget how R-I-C-H Bob McNair is. He's got the bennies, and then some. We just don't THINK he's as rich as Jerry because Jerry is one of those pompous-ass rich people that likes to flaunt it.

McNair is one of those people who you see driving a used car, but has a gazillion dollars in the bank. It wouldn't surprise me if he goes out of his way to buy gas at Kroger so he can get a discount using his Kroger Plus Card.

But, he's not cheap. McNair has the cash and will spend it if necessary.

houstonspartan
11-26-2009, 05:31 AM
jones ain't no rooney, but it's all about the benjamins. besides, the cowboys already have a 3-4 defense and decent pieces on offense. and realistically, who would turn down the opportunity to coach the cowboys?

Also a lot of this depends on price. Shanahan is apparently seeking $10 million per year. Would Cowher want that much?

Jerry is the only owner dumb enough to shell out $10 mil a year for a coach.

I like Cowher, but $10 million a year for any coach is just insane.

McNair could easily afford that, but he didn't become rich by making bad business deals. If a coach comes asking for that much, he should pass.

GuerillaBlack
11-26-2009, 06:07 AM
And that's how much it has been reported that Cowher wants....

$10M per year.

BattleRedToro
11-26-2009, 10:14 AM
Also a lot of this depends on price. Shanahan is apparently seeking $10 million per year. Would Cowher want that much?

Jerry is the only owner dumb enough to shell out $10 mil a year for a coach.

I like Cowher, but $10 million a year for any coach is just insane.

McNair could easily afford that, but he didn't become rich by making bad business deals. If a coach comes asking for that much, he should pass.

I don't think McNair bought the Texans for a business investment. He bought the team because he loves sports. Sure, he isn't going to forget all of the knowledge that made him a success at business, but that doesn't mean that he will run the Texans like his past businesses.

It also should be noted that you assume that paying any coach $10 Million a year is a bad business decision when that may be incorrect. If the Texans win more games as a direct result of the hiring of a new more expensive coach, then the increased revenue from the likely increased merchandise sales could potentially more than make up for the cost.

TexanBacker93
11-26-2009, 10:42 AM
Does anyone else think that cowher may be posturing and ultimately wants to force Carolinas hand?

How's Carolina's financial situation, though? Is that market strong enough and do they get enough extra revenue to pay for Cowher? From a financial standpoint I would think McNair is in a better spot to afford him.

TexanBacker93
11-26-2009, 10:44 AM
I don't think McNair bought the Texans for a business investment. He bought the team because he loves sports. Sure, he isn't going to forget all of the knowledge that made him a success at business, but that doesn't mean that he will run the Texans like his past businesses.

It also should be noted that you assume that paying any coach $10 Million a year is a bad business decision when that may be incorrect. If the Texans win more games as a direct result of the hiring of a new more expensive coach, then the increased revenue from the likely increased merchandise sales could potentially more than make up for the cost.

They could sell Cowher jerseys and probably get $10 million just off those sales.

WWJD
11-26-2009, 10:48 AM
Daniel Snyder will spend MEGA bucks to get a big name coach in there after Coach Zorn is gone.

Pantherstang84
11-26-2009, 10:48 AM
Does anyone else think that cowher may be posturing and ultimately wants to force Carolinas hand?

Yep. I think he wants the Carolina job. Houston is just a bargaining chip.

WWJD
11-26-2009, 10:53 AM
He'll be asked about all this on the CBS pre-game show today. Don't know if he's a question dodger or if he'll give a truthful answer but it will be interesting viewing I'm sure.

houstonspartan
11-26-2009, 12:04 PM
I don't think McNair bought the Texans for a business investment. He bought the team because he loves sports. Sure, he isn't going to forget all of the knowledge that made him a success at business, but that doesn't mean that he will run the Texans like his past businesses.

It also should be noted that you assume that paying any coach $10 Million a year is a bad business decision when that may be incorrect. If the Texans win more games as a direct result of the hiring of a new more expensive coach, then the increased revenue from the likely increased merchandise sales could potentially more than make up for the cost.

No, I'm sure he didn't put the team together for a business investment. But he's no fool. He knows this is a business. The man has spent well over a billion dollars. He knows he must maintain that investment somehow.

Hey, I'm a season ticket holder, and I would give my right arm for Cowher. But, it just seems like $10 million is a lot of money for a coach.

GuerillaBlack
11-26-2009, 12:32 PM
Daniel Snyder will spend MEGA bucks to get a big name coach in there after Coach Zorn is gone.

Probably will, but most likely wouldn't be Cowher. He would have much more to fix in Washington than with the Bears and especially us.

TheRealJoker
11-27-2009, 03:32 PM
And that's how much it has been reported that Cowher wants....

$10M per year.

I'd say the best coach is worth as much as the best player. $10M per year is worth it if we can get someone in here that can put this team in position to compete for the Lombardi trophy every year and rid the losing culture that has been here since the team's inception.

Then, when he does decide to retire, hopefully he can set us up with a nice replacement from within the organization like Dungy did for the Colts.

I'd rather try something new (pay a HC $10M per year) than continue with the status-quo which has resulted in a pathetic excuse for a trophy case for Houston football teams.

FirstTexansFan
11-27-2009, 03:45 PM
May have already been said, but I say give him Dunta's money :)

Texans_Chick
11-27-2009, 09:08 PM
I just have a hard time seeing this.

The Texans would have to blow up the team again. Both lines aren't Cowher lines, Cowher does the 3-4, there's not enough smashmouthy stuff going on. Plus some of Cowhers best assistants are either fixed with the Steelers or have gone on to greener pastures.

I really think the Texans are just being mentioned to drive the price up.

houstonspartan
11-28-2009, 12:49 AM
I just have a hard time seeing this.

The Texans would have to blow up the team again. Both lines aren't Cowher lines, Cowher does the 3-4, there's not enough smashmouthy stuff going on. Plus some of Cowhers best assistants are either fixed with the Steelers or have gone on to greener pastures.

I really think the Texans are just being mentioned to drive the price up.

A friend of mine in another state who is knowledgeable about sports put it all in perspective a couple of hours ago.

Her comment: "You guys have a QB that is good enough to take you to the Super Bowl. And, he's not even 30 yet."

She's right. And that is what makes this franchise more attractive this year as opposed to last year. If he wanted to raise his price, Cowher could have easily randomly picked another team to mention. Instead, he specifically said the Texans.

I'm not saying he isn't using us to drive the price up. It's possible.

But we can't overlook the fact that Matt Schaub makes this franchise look very, very good to a lot of coaches.

RagingBull
11-28-2009, 02:28 AM
If Cowher wants to come here, then you have to do the deal. Not doing so would be like passing on Tom Brady as a free agent because you already have Matt Shaub.

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 04:17 PM
I am tired of this shit. I do not know what Houston sports did to receive this cruel joke year after year and game after game but I am tired of it!!! I want the owner Bob Mcnair to bring in a proven winner at HC and change the culture of this team. Make them winners, I don't care how much it would cost to bring him in, just give him a blank check and let him make this team a winner dammit!!!

I can use this thread to go over the mistakes today and the pathetic meltdown that I have come to expect from the Texans when the pressure is on but that's an exercise in futility. Get rid of the nice guy players-coach who is probably giving his team sliced oranges and capri-sun after another loss...

Bring in the chin!!!

http://media.scout.com/Media/NHL/61569_BillCowher-.JPG

valleytexfan
11-29-2009, 04:18 PM
ditto.

bah007
11-29-2009, 04:20 PM
I don't know why Cowher would give up his nice gig to come and coach here but I would welcome it.

Kubiak has had enough time. It's not happening. It's time for him to go. At the very least, Shanahan should be out of a job.

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 04:21 PM
I don't know why Cowher would give up his nice gig to come and coach here but I would welcome it.

Kubiak has had enough time. It's not happening. It's time for him to go. At the very least, Shanahan should be out of a job.

Give the winner a blank check and he'll come back to coaching.

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 04:23 PM
I'll take Cowher.

If not Cowher I'll take Darrell Bevell, Gregg Williams or Mike Nolan

Maddict5
11-29-2009, 04:23 PM
couldnt this have gone in either the hire cowher or fire kubiak thread? not sure we needed to mix the two! ;)

MannyFresh
11-29-2009, 04:24 PM
I'll take Cowher.

If not Cowher I'll take Darrell Bevell, Gregg Williams or Mike Nolan

...and if not them, what would it take to convince Marty to come back?

LonerATO
11-29-2009, 04:24 PM
Give the winner a blank check and he'll come back to coaching.

He wants 10 mill a season and Im not sure if McNair wants to pay that

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 04:25 PM
...and if not them, what would it take to convince Marty to come back?

I'll take Marty. His baggage is that he can't win playoff games. I'd LOVE to have that baggage right now. Kubiak is like a lamer Marty, he can't get off 8-8.

drewmar74
11-29-2009, 04:27 PM
I'll send in a couple of bucks a month to help bring in Cowher.

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 04:27 PM
He wants 10 mill a season and Im not sure if McNair wants to pay that

He'll gladly pay Cowher 10 mill a season if enough PSL holders write him saying they will give up their seats if Cowher doesn't come to Houston.

False Start
11-29-2009, 04:27 PM
Kubiak just dropped a "its my fault" in the presser, he even thinks he sucks, lol.

FirstTexansFan
11-29-2009, 04:28 PM
I'm on the fire Kubiak bandwagon, and I hope we have a shot at a guy like Cowher, I just have this sneaky feeling he's using us as a way to a better paycheck.

checo446
11-29-2009, 04:29 PM
I'll take Cowher.

If not Cowher I'll take Darrell Bevell, Gregg Williams or Mike Nolan

Seriously? You miss how pathetic the 49ers were under Mike Nolan's tenure?

LonerATO
11-29-2009, 04:29 PM
He'll gladly pay Cowher 10 mill a season if enough PSL holders write him saying they will give up their seats if Cowher doesn't come to Houston.

Not to be an ass, but if those people dropped their PSL's I would swoop in on it. Im not saying he doesnt have the money, but it comes down to if McNair wants to pull the trigger.

MannyFresh
11-29-2009, 04:30 PM
He'll gladly pay Cowher 10 mill a season if enough PSL holders write him saying they will give up their seats if Cowher doesn't come to Houston.

I think your on to something there.

Imatexanfan
11-29-2009, 04:31 PM
I'll send in a couple of bucks a month to help bring in Cowher.

I'm game:breakdance:

Leahmic223
11-29-2009, 04:32 PM
All I know is whoever it is, it needs to be a proven guy.

Not some hotshot DC or OC....You think Andre would be happy about that? Happy about having another experimental HC?

m5kwatts
11-29-2009, 04:34 PM
Seriously? You miss how pathetic the 49ers were under Mike Nolan's tenure?

He had awful personnel. The Texans personnel is a tremendous upgrade to what he had when he was there. He deserves a look considering how he's morphed Denver's defense from awful to a top 10 unit this year.

drewmar74
11-29-2009, 04:36 PM
Proven guys out there are Cowher, Shanahan, and Holmgren.

I'm not sold on Holmgren.

I'm not feeling real good about bringing in Shanahan - little else from Denver has worked here.

I'm just praying that a) McNair fires Kubes (hate to say that but something's gotta give) and b) that Cowher isn't just using a feigned interest in Houston as a way to drive up his price.

*sigh*

THIS SUCKS.

MannyFresh
11-29-2009, 04:37 PM
Cowher or Billick....one of those two and thats it!

LonerATO
11-29-2009, 04:38 PM
Proven guys out there are Cowher, Shanahan, and Holmgren.

I'm not sold on Holmgren.

I'm not feeling real good about bringing in Shanahan - little else from Denver has worked here.

I'm just praying that a) McNair fires Kubes (hate to say that but something's gotta give) and b) that Cowher isn't just using a feigned interest in Houston as a way to drive up his price.

*sigh*

THIS SUCKS.

There is talk brewing in Seattle that Ruskell is going to be gone and Holmgren is going to be in a Parcells role.

TexansFanatic
11-29-2009, 04:40 PM
Bring in the chin!!! Pay the mofo whatever the hell he wants!

drewmar74
11-29-2009, 04:40 PM
There is talking brewing in Seattle that Ruskell is going to be gone and Holmgren is going to be in a Parcells role.

Heard that.

And that's fine. I never saw the Walrus get a team fired up like a Schottenheimer or Cowher.

And I feel very strongly that we need someone with some fire in the HC role.

LonerATO
11-29-2009, 04:41 PM
Heard that.

And that's fine. I never saw the Walrus get a team fired up like a Schottenheimer or Cowher.

And I feel very strongly that we need someone with some fire in the HC role.

I always liked what Schottenheimer did with other teams.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 04:48 PM
How long was cowher in pitt before he won that superbowl? How long was tomlin in pitt before he won that superbowl? Cowher wants to be gm also. Does he know how to draft or did it take him a long time to win with someone elses players? How long has tomlin been a coach and how many rings does have to cowher. Cowher is fools gold. They beat seattle in the worst officiated superbowl of all time. You guys need to wait till tomorrow to post

Goatcheese
11-29-2009, 04:48 PM
Bill Cowher has a losing record against the Titans and Jaguars.

11-12 vs Tacks
8-10 against the Jags

Something to think about while riding his chin.

LonerATO
11-29-2009, 04:56 PM
I wonder how Bears fans feel now?

HJam72
11-29-2009, 04:57 PM
I'd sure like to have won nearly half our games against the Tacks over the years. I'd also love to see Cowher coaching the Texans against Manning and the Indianapolis Referees.

Spled
11-29-2009, 04:57 PM
Leslie Frazier anyone?

Big Lou
11-29-2009, 04:59 PM
So what are the odds Rick Smith stays on. I think he has done a good job, but I wonder if he can find the talent a Non-Broncos scheme warrants. Also I wonder if he goes where Shan 1&2, and Kubiak go.

I think that although many fans don't see a top notch coach coming here I think that the huge amount of talent on this team would be a huge draw for any coach with a decent resume. This team is one draft away from having elite talent if we can keep the core and resign them.

Imatexanfan
11-29-2009, 04:59 PM
Cowher or Billick....one of those two and thats it!

Holy shit I forgot about Billick thats good too. You know what fire him now and promote whomever, we at the Texanstalk.com MB's are done, Bob do the dirty work or I'll be happy to do it for free.:mail:

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 05:00 PM
How long was cowher in pitt before he won that superbowl? How long was tomlin in pitt before he won that superbowl? Cowher wants to be gm also. Does he know how to draft or did it take him a long time to win with someone elses players? How long has tomlin been a coach and how many rings does have to cowher. Cowher is fools gold. They beat seattle in the worst officiated superbowl of all time. You guys need to wait till tomorrow to post

How long was Cowher in Pitt before they were making the playoffs year in and year out? That's the goal here...Superbowls aren't even on the radar yet for the Texans. We need to get invited to the dance first and foremost.

Goatcheese
11-29-2009, 05:04 PM
How long was Cowher in Pitt before they were making the playoffs year in and year out? That's the goal here...Superbowls aren't even on the radar yet for the Texans. We need to get invited to the dance first and foremost.

They made the playoffs his first 6 years, '92-'97, and 10 out of his 15 years total.

That's something else to consider. He's made the playoffs just 4 of his last 9 seasons.

BattleRedToro
11-29-2009, 05:08 PM
Give me Schottenheimer. He has proven he can take multiple franchises with no direction to the playoffs.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 05:11 PM
How long was Cowher in Pitt before they were making the playoffs year in and year out? That's the goal here...Superbowls aren't even on the radar yet for the Texans. We need to get invited to the dance first and foremost.
So if kubiak could win a superbowl in 2 years you would sell that out for cowher making the playoffs for how many years without winning a superbowl? Love your comments joker but cowher isn't the answer. We are all mad but we'd have to take 2 steps back before moving forward with cowher. How long you give cowher before you fire him?

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 05:13 PM
Give me Schottenheimer. He has proven he can take multiple franchises with no direction to the playoffs.

Cowher is the first name that comes to mind but I wouldn't mind Marty-ball either. Anybody who is a proven winner that gets his team to the playoffs. I cant even consider the Texans performance in the playoffs because I was a child when the Oilers were playing playoff games (and squandering 35-3 leads...).

Dan B.
11-29-2009, 05:15 PM
Give me Schottenheimer. He has proven he can take multiple franchises with no direction to the playoffs.

You know his average season is 11-5? Sounds better than what we've had so far to me.

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 05:17 PM
Leslie Frazier anyone?

He will get a job for someone and be a real solid HC but this team probably needs a proven winner with HC experience. Who knows though, Cowher is certainly the dream but no telling how it will unfold.

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 05:25 PM
So if kubiak could win a superbowl in 2 years you would sell that out for cowher making the playoffs for how many years without winning a superbowl? Love your comments joker but cowher isn't the answer. We are all mad but we'd have to take 2 steps back before moving forward with cowher. How long you give cowher before you fire him?

Its not so easy for me to claim that an HC who hasn't ever made the playoff or had a winning record would be more likely to win a Superbowl than a coach who has actually won a ring and been to the playoffs multiple times.

The first step to winning Superbowls is making the playoffs. I think Cowher gives us a beter chance of completing the most crucial step than Kubiak.

Ryan
11-29-2009, 05:36 PM
We better start having private meetings with him starting this week. Call the man up.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 05:37 PM
Its not so easy for me to claim that an HC who hasn't ever made the playoff or had a winning record would be more likely to win a Superbowl than a coach who has actually won a ring and been to the playoffs multiple times.

The first step to winning Superbowls is making the playoffs. I think Cowher gives us a beter chance of completing the most crucial step than Kubiak.

You still haven't answered my question. How long was cowher a steeler coach before he won one and how long was tomlin a steeler coach before he won one? Why not throw money at tomlin if you want instant returns??? O wait all you want is playoffs. Not rings. Selling your team short are you?

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 05:39 PM
You still haven't answered my question. How long was cowher a steeler coach before he won one and how long was tomlin a steeler coach before he won one? Why not throw money at tomlin if you want instant returns??? O wait all you want is playoffs. Not rings. Selling your team short are you?

Your whole argument is based on some ridiculous assumption that Kubiak will win a SB in the next two years. I also have no idea how making the playoffs is selling this team short. Have you been watching the Texans from year one? This just in, we haven't made the playoffs once. The SB, don't make me laugh.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 05:45 PM
Your whole argument is based on some ridiculous assumption that Kubiak will win a SB in the next two years. I also have no idea how making the playoffs is selling this team short. Have you been watching the Texans from year one? This just in, we haven't made the playoffs once. The SB, don't make me laugh.
No, my arguement is against cowher being the answer. People are calling for marty ball, why was he fired? How has the most talented team in football done without him?
By the way would you want tomlin or cowher based on track record?

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 05:50 PM
He won a superbowl in his second year, what is he up to? Surely he can take this team to next level.

Ryan
11-29-2009, 05:51 PM
Cowher.

fikster
11-29-2009, 05:52 PM
i'm down for cowher please

FirstTexansFan
11-29-2009, 05:53 PM
No, my arguement is against cowher being the answer. People are calling for marty ball, why was he fired? How has the most talented team in football done without him?
By the way would you want tomlin or cowher based on track record?

I just want anyone other than what we have.... you can do the hiring, I'll cheer for your team :)

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 05:54 PM
No, my arguement is against cowher being the answer. People are calling for marty ball, why was he fired? How has the most talented team in football done without him?
By the way would you want tomlin or cowher based on track record?

I guess I missed the part where Tomlin doesn't have a job. Hey, why don't we just get Belicheck as a coordinator while we're at it. The only way you are going to get Tomlin as a HC is if you decide to become a Steelers fan so I have no idea why he is even in the conversation.

houstonhurricane
11-29-2009, 05:56 PM
This could be one of the worst posts...ever.

TheCD
11-29-2009, 05:57 PM
You still haven't answered my question. How long was cowher a steeler coach before he won one and how long was tomlin a steeler coach before he won one? Why not throw money at tomlin if you want instant returns??? O wait all you want is playoffs. Not rings. Selling your team short are you?

I don't understand your argument here. Both Cowher and Tomlin are good coaches, but Tomlin stepped into a coaches dream in taking over a team that had just recently won the Super Bowl, had all the core elements to go back, and had no upheaval at all. Tomlin's situation is entirely different from that of say Tampa, Seattle, etc. because these teams absolutely fell off of the radar and had very little talent left when the new coach arrived.

Tomlin was in a unique situation where his coaching style meshed perfectly with the team's personnel, and that personnel was already among the elites in the league. All Tomlin had to do was continue to place talent on the team, rather than build it from scratch.

It's easily arguable (though I'm not making that argument) that Tomlin won with Cowher's players. Look at where Raheem Morris is right now. He's looking to be a great coach, but are those the guys he personally hand-picked to play on that Colts team? Hardly. Let's wait until these teams are filled with nothing but the new coaches players before we compare the coaches records with those teams.

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 05:57 PM
He won a superbowl in his second year, what is he up to? Surely he can take this team to next level.

You're trying to be funny aren't you? I get it.

FirstTexansFan
11-29-2009, 05:57 PM
I detect sarcasm myself :)

Mailman
11-29-2009, 05:58 PM
I hear Coach Taylor is interested if we can pry him from Dillon East.

Mr. White
11-29-2009, 05:59 PM
This could be one of the worst posts...ever.

If he were serious. The logic still doesn't work either way.

Spled
11-29-2009, 05:59 PM
Say what you will, he would improve our defense.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 05:59 PM
I guess I missed the part where Tomlin doesn't have a job. Hey, why don't we just get Belicheck as a coordinator while we're at it. The only way you are going to get Tomlin as a HC is if you decide to become a Steelers fan so I have no idea why he is even in the conversation.
Amount of money cowher wants plus power might be enticing to tomlin? Why not shoot for the moon? Try jimmy johnson? Maybe parcells wants to stick it to jerry? Anyone other then to good to be true cowher.

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 06:05 PM
You still haven't answered my question. How long was cowher a steeler coach before he won one and how long was tomlin a steeler coach before he won one? Why not throw money at tomlin if you want instant returns??? O wait all you want is playoffs. Not rings. Selling your team short are you?

Until this team makes the playoffs there's no point even talking about Superbowls.

Once again...Cowher gives us a better chance of completing the most important step (get the team to the playoffs) than Kubiak.

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 06:06 PM
Amount of money cowher wants plus power might be enticing to tomlin? Why not shoot for the moon? Try jimmy johnson? Maybe parcells wants to stick it to jerry? Anyone other then to good to be true cowher.

This isn't college though, head coaches don't jump between teams if they get offered more money. They change jobs when they retire or get fired. We offer 10 mil to Tomlin and we will likely lose our first round pick next season due to tampering. Parcells also has a job in the NFL. JJ has been out of football for far longer than Cowher. What do you care what kind of cash it could take to get the chin here? Not our cash and it doesn't even count against the salary cap.

Your entire argument seems to hinge on the proclamation that Cowher will not deliver a SB victory and a SB victory is all that matters. Winning a SB is extremely difficult thing to do. I just want a coach that I can trust to make our team play hard and smart. Let the chips fall where they may after that, no coach and no player can guarantee a SB victory.

triplethreat
11-29-2009, 06:06 PM
Keep Kubiak please, I really don't want to turn into the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, firing a head coach every year. Give the guy a chance, it is completely obvious that his offensive schemes would be working to PERFECTION if we had a good run-blocking offensive line. WE NEED a running game to win in this league, plain and simple, we feast off of play action and not having a run game is not helping at all. We need to get more secondary help, its clear the only one that is actually playing hard for us is Pollard. Kubiak has a strong system in place, it's just that we have some major weaknesses in positions that playoff contenders CANNOT have.

Mr. White
11-29-2009, 06:08 PM
Amount of money cowher wants plus power might be enticing to tomlin? Why not shoot for the moon? Try jimmy johnson? Maybe parcells wants to stick it to jerry? Anyone other then to good to be true cowher.

One important point you seem to be missing is that Cowher has actually expressed interest in the Texans job.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 06:09 PM
I don't understand your argument here. Both Cowher and Tomlin are good coaches, but Tomlin stepped into a coaches dream in taking over a team that had just recently won the Super Bowl, had all the core elements to go back, and had no upheaval at all. Tomlin's situation is entirely different from that of say Tampa, Seattle, etc. because these teams absolutely fell off of the radar and had very little talent left when the new coach arrived.

Tomlin was in a unique situation where his coaching style meshed perfectly with the team's personnel, and that personnel was already among the elites in the league. All Tomlin had to do was continue to place talent on the team, rather than build it from scratch.

It's easily arguable (though I'm not making that argument) that Tomlin won with Cowher's players. Look at where Raheem Morris is right now. He's looking to be a great coach, but are those the guys he personally hand-picked to play on that Colts team? Hardly. Let's wait until these teams are filled with nothing but the new coaches players before we compare the coaches records with those teams.

So your saying tomlin was a round peg in the round pitt hole? I buy that. Cowher is a square peg in the houston hole. All I'm saying. No instant success when overhauling both sides of the ball. One superbowl makes him a god in houston. Like VY and that national title.

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 06:09 PM
This isn't college though, head coaches don't jump between teams if they get offered more money. They change jobs when they retire or get fired. We offer 10 mil to Tomlin and we will likely lose our first round pick next season due to tampering. Parcells is also has a job in the NFL. JJ has been out of football for far longer than Cowher. What do you care what kind of cash it could take to get the chin here? Not our cash and it doesn't even count against the salary cap.

Your entire argument seems to hinge on the proclamation that Cowher will not deliver a SB victory and a SB victory is all that matters. Winning a SB is extremely difficult thing to do. I just want a coach that I can trust to make our team play hard and smart. Let the chips fall where they may after that, no coach and no player can guarantee a SB victory.

:bravo:

OzzO
11-29-2009, 06:11 PM
You still haven't answered my question. How long was cowher a steeler coach before he won one ...


Not sure what "won one" refers to as the "one"... but

4 years to AFC champion
7 years after a losing season to become superbowl champ
3 out of 15 years for a "winning" season. (one was 8-8)

TheRealJoker
11-29-2009, 06:13 PM
Keep Kubiak please, I really don't want to turn into the Notre Dame Fighting Irish, firing a head coach every year. Give the guy a chance, it is completely obvious that his offensive schemes would be working to PERFECTION if we had a good run-blocking offensive line. WE NEED a running game to win in this league, plain and simple, we feast off of play action and not having a run game is not helping at all. We need to get more secondary help, its clear the only one that is actually playing hard for us is Pollard. Kubiak has a strong system in place, it's just that we have some major weaknesses in positions that playoff contenders CANNOT have.

I too hate that our OL cant get a consistent push in the running game and we decided not to get a power back that would complement Slaton. The depth on the OL is pathetic, did the coaches really think we could go 16 games with the same startin OL two years in a row? I am also disgusted that we still need more secondary help after Kubiak has had 4 years on the job. Even more so that we still have major weaknesses (again after Kubiak has had 4 years here) that playoff contenders cannot have.

This is why we need to make a change in leadership. This team has problems that playoff contenders cannot have (like you mentioned) yet we're on year 4 with the same coach and we have said problems.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 06:13 PM
Just a little comic relief on a terrible day? Forgive me

OzzO
11-29-2009, 06:14 PM
only if we were to get JJ in first to build up the team so Barry can ride the coattails.

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 06:15 PM
Just a little comic relief on a terrible day? Forgive me

I'm not downing ya man. If I don't laugh, I'll cry.

Goatcheese
11-29-2009, 06:16 PM
We better start having private meetings with him starting this week. Call the man up.

Cowher says he won't talk to any teams that still have a coach.

False Start
11-29-2009, 06:16 PM
Just a little comic relief on a terrible day? Forgive me

I laughed when I first saw it, I knew you had to be joking. :cool:

HJam72
11-29-2009, 06:17 PM
Dom Capers. :tomato:

Yes, I said it. :mcnugget:

Mr. White
11-29-2009, 06:18 PM
Not sure what "won one" refers to as the "one"... but

4 years to AFC champion
7 years after a losing season to become superbowl champ
3 out of 15 years for a "winning" season. (one was 8-8)

More importantly, he took a team to the playoffs his first season.

Txn_in_FL
11-29-2009, 06:20 PM
How long was cowher in pitt before he won that superbowl? How long was tomlin in pitt before he won that superbowl? Cowher wants to be gm also. Does he know how to draft or did it take him a long time to win with someone elses players? How long has tomlin been a coach and how many rings does have to cowher. Cowher is fools gold. They beat seattle in the worst officiated superbowl of all time. You guys need to wait till tomorrow to post


How many losing seasons did Cowher have in Pitt? 2? 3 maybe? It's not just a Superbowl issue here it's a winning issue. I'll take playoffs all freaking day long over 8-8 and less.

Isn't that what we're talking about here? Super Bowl to me is a non freaking issue. Start bringing in 10-6, 12-4, 11-5 records and then we'll start talking SB. You need someone in here to bring a mentality of winning.

Are you happy with Par for the course? Well lay it the hell up tin cup.

Texan4Ever
11-29-2009, 06:20 PM
I'm not sure if he is a possibility but how about Leslie Frazier, Assistant HC and DC for the Vikes? Or how about Assistant HC and offensive line coach Dante Scarnecchia?

I think Leslie Frazier would be a good choice if we can't grab the "top guys" like Cowher or Jon Gruden.


:clown:

kastofsna
11-29-2009, 06:21 PM
Dick Jauron is out there, guys

nut
11-29-2009, 06:21 PM
Wade might be available at the end of the year.

triplethreat
11-29-2009, 06:21 PM
I too hate that our OL cant get a consistent push in the running game and we decided not to get a power back that would complement Slaton. The depth on the OL is pathetic, did the coaches really think we could go 16 games with the same startin OL two years in a row? I am also disgusted that we still need more secondary help after Kubiak has had 4 years on the job. Even more so that we still have major weaknesses (again after Kubiak has had 4 years here) that playoff contenders cannot have.

This is why we need to make a change in leadership. This team has problems that playoff contenders cannot have (like you mentioned) yet we're on year 4 with the same coach and we have said problems.

Listen, the thing is Kubiak is slowly building this team into contenders, Our Line Backers are maybe one of the best in the league with Cushing and Ryans. We have a great back in Slaton if we just beef up on the line. Our QB is one of the best at play action fakes which would fit our system with perfection if we had our running game. Great reciever/tight end talents, I say give him at LEAST 1 more year and see what he can do.

ATXtexanfan
11-29-2009, 06:22 PM
One important point you seem to be missing is that Cowher has actually expressed interest in the Texans job.
Mr white, has he told you that? Or is he parlaying kubes into extra cash? Those kind of rumors got ND into trouble with mr weiss? I've expressed my disinterest into cowher. If he arrives I'll blindly support him like carr. Adios mofos.

HJam72
11-29-2009, 06:30 PM
Kubiak is building this team into a contender for what? Third in our division?

The most glaring thing to me is that we are 1-4 in or division so far this year, and we got the 1 win against a team that was starting an 0-6 run. Kubiak has built a team whose achilles heel is the teams in its own division.

I say in order to keep his job for one more year he needs to beat Jax AND win 3 other games this year, getting him a minimum of 9 wins. Good luck with that... Regardless, I would be trying to start talks with Cowher immediately.

MannyFresh
11-29-2009, 06:31 PM
This is an EPIC FAIL thread...moderator please delete.

HJam72
11-29-2009, 06:34 PM
I would also inform Kubiak that he better allow his QB to audible to both run AND pass plays or he will NEVER be successful. Every D in the league knows Schaub can only audible to run plays....so he doesn't audible. He might as well just take the snap and spike the ball on first down. At least it would keep one of our RBs from fumbling. Idiotic...

DerekLee1
11-29-2009, 06:43 PM
Kubiak is building this team into a contender for what? Third in our division?

The most glaring thing to me is that we are 1-4 in or division so far this year, and we got the 1 win against a team that was starting an 0-6 run. Kubiak has built a team whose achilles heel is the teams in its own division.

I say in order to keep his job for one more year he needs to beat Jax AND win 3 other games this year, getting him a minimum of 9 wins. Good luck with that... Regardless, I would be trying to start talks with Cowher immediately.

And this is doable. At Jax, Seattle at home, then St. Louis on the road? That SHOULD be 3 wins alone. That puts us at 8-6. Win one of the last 2 and Kubiak stays in place.

gwallaia
11-29-2009, 08:26 PM
I cannot logically see any reason to keep Kubiak.

He is not a good coach. How could any reasonable organization keep a proven loser like Kubiak?

False Start
11-29-2009, 08:32 PM
I cannot logically see any reason to keep Kubiak.

He is not a good coach. How could any reasonable organization keep a proven loser like Kubiak?

Because hes a good guy.... :)

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 08:47 PM
Because hes a good guy.... :)

Actually, he is a good guy. I like him so much I occassionally see stories about his kids, and root for them (his three kids are all football players). Gary is a stand up guy.

But...it's not working.

False Start
11-29-2009, 08:54 PM
Actually, he is a good guy. I like him so much I occassionally see stories about his kids, and root for them (his three kids are all football players). Gary is a stand up guy.

But...it's not working.

Yeah I know, my Aunt's husband is good friends with the Kubiak family, and hes told me he and his family are great people. I just think its time for him to make like a tree, and get outta here.

Vinny
11-29-2009, 09:12 PM
SI's Don Banks is on the Fire Kubiak wagon as well...

McNair gave Dom Capers the boot as his head coach after four playoff-less seasons, and Kubiak now deserves the exact same treatment. Despite having some of the most gifted players in the league at several positions, the Texans lack heart, killer instinct and the know-how to win. If that's not a reflection on a head coach's leadership, what pray tell is?

As December dawns, the Texans are again toast. They should be in the market for a new face of the franchise in the coming weeks, and it's obvious they're in desperate need of a heart transplant, as well. Four years is an eminently fair shot in today's NFL. Kubiak got his chance to make the Texans a winner, and he failed. Better than most, he knows he and his football team have wound up on the wrong side of the bottom line.

Read more: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/don_banks/11/29/week12.snaps/#ixzz0YIx86EOk

FirstTexansFan
11-29-2009, 09:15 PM
SI's Don Banks is on the Fire Kubiak wagon as well...


So does that put me in good company, or is Don Banks a mullet? :)

GP
11-29-2009, 09:34 PM
Notice what happened to Minnesota when they made the move for Favre.

They got someone who had prior experience in the area of HEART. They paired him up with Adrian Peterson. They hit a huge home-run by drafting Percy Harvin. Things work when you get the right guys at the right spots.

I think firing Kubiak after next week's loss to the Jaguars, and then the ensuing media circus that could occur with TV shots of Cowher being flown into Houston to meet with McNair, as well as getting the deal done ASAP, could be a great leap into starting the new era before this one really ends.

Why wait until the end of the season? Getting the new guy, now, can get his feet onto the ground and with the players before the season is done. Retain all the current staff through the end of the season. Allow your o-coord and d-coord to continue calling the rest of the season here. The new HC can roam the sideline and mix and mingle in the locker room and in the meetings, using his fresh eyes to actively SEE and witness what things were wrong.

He'd have a tremendous leap if he gets to see the players NOW when they are still going through the motions and showing signs/signals of how the Kubiak regime handled things.

Use the first few weeks of the off-season to evaluate the coordinators, then start making your moves.

And, obviously, Joe Marciano remains on the team because he's the only friggin' coach who has consistently produced for this team no matter who has been the coach and no matter what situation we've been in.

Count me as being a fan who says it's OK to break with tradition, here, and go ahead and get started on identifying the next head coach of this team.

eriadoc
11-29-2009, 09:34 PM
From Vinny's link:

Four years is an eminently fair shot in today's NFL. Kubiak got his chance to make the Texans a winner, and he failed.

That's really the bottom line. I'm not sure who could have done a better job than Kubiak, given the situation, but four years without one winning season is failure.

And I state again, put me in the Holmgren camp. I'd be happy enough with Cowher, but if I had to bet money on one or the other, I'd take Holmgren. He has a better track record.

GP
11-29-2009, 09:40 PM
The new HC can roam the sideline and mix and mingle in the locker room and in the meetings, using his fresh eyes to actively SEE and witness what things were wrong.

He'd have a tremendous leap if he gets to see the players NOW when they are still going through the motions and showing signs/signals of how the Kubiak regime handled things.

Because let's be big boys and girls here, for a moment:

This set of players, collectively, sees the writing on the wall with Kubiak.

So why wait? Why put on the fake smile, and the "Gary's our guy" shenanigans?

Make the move, throw the whole bank at Cowher. Give him what he wants. Hell, move the team to his backyard and build a stadium in it for all I care. But this team has enough good players to make a move. They just need someone who's been there and done that. Period.

They need that guy who can look at them and say "You can do this. I know you can do this because I have been there. I can get you there. You've never been there, and that's not all your fault. So let's go there. Let's DO this. The next level begins right now."

If you were one of those Texans players, and you heard Cowher say that to you, in the midst of all these games where we should have won but couldn't pull it off, don't you think that would inspire this so-called "confidence" that everyone says the Texans NEED but don't have yet?

BattleRedToro
11-29-2009, 09:41 PM
You know his average season is 11-5? Sounds better than what we've had so far to me.

I should have been clearer in my previous post. I meant that the teams that Marty took to the playoffs had no direction prior to him becoming their head coach.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 09:48 PM
Because let's be big boys and girls here, for a moment:

This set of players, collectively, sees the writing on the wall with Kubiak.

So why wait? Why put on the fake smile, and the "Gary's our guy" shenanigans?

Make the move, throw the whole bank at Cowher. Give him what he wants. Hell, move the team to his backyard and build a stadium in it for all I care. But this team has enough good players to make a move. They just someone who's been there and done that. Period.

They need that guy who can look at them and say "You can do this. I know you can do this because I have been there. I can get you there. You've never been there, and that's not all your fault. So let's go there. Let's DO this. The next level begins right now."


I see your point, but we can't do that.

Yes, these players may see the writing on the wall, but it's important that they keep playing for him. If McNair comes in and tosses Kubiak out now, it will give the players a VERY BAD impression of the franchise. They will see it as being disrespectful and offensive towards their coach.

We need Matt, Demeco and Andre to still want to play for Bob McNair.

Again, in theory, I see your point. And, based on the nasty looks I saw McNair give after the game, he's probably tempted to fire Kubiak tonight. But it's a lot more complicated than that.

Texan4Ever
11-29-2009, 09:51 PM
If we do get Cowher as a HC, does this mean we switch to a 3-4 defense or do we stay in a 4-3?

Bill Cowher would be nice but I doubt he wants to coach again. I remember him mentioning he wants to be with his family and daughter (who is going off to college as far as I know).

Kimmy
11-29-2009, 09:53 PM
If we do get Cowher as a HC, does this mean we switch to a 3-4 defense or do we stay in a 4-3?

Bill Cowher would be nice but I doubt he wants to coach again. I remember him mentioning he wants to be with his family and daughter (who is going off to college as far as I know).

He would probably switch, gradually. Which buys him at LEAST a year 'pass' with no playoffs. As much as I hate it ... a change in coaching means no playoffs anytime soon :(

GP
11-29-2009, 09:57 PM
I see your point, but we can't do that.

Yes, these players may see the writing on the wall, but it's important that they keep playing for him. If McNair comes in and tosses Kubiak out now, it will give the players a VERY BAD impression of the franchise. They will see it as being disrespectful and offensive towards their coach.

We need Matt, Demeco and Andre to still want to play for Bob McNair.

Again, in theory, I see your point. And, based on the nasty looks I saw McNair give after the game, he's probably tempted to fire Kubiak tonight. But it's a lot more complicated than that.

I seriously don't think any of those players you mentioned would begin looking at the franchise in a negative manner if Kubiak were fired at midnight tonight.

In fact, I think they would be glad. Because the guys you listed, IMO, are guys who handle their business. And they, too, should know that they, too, could also be let go if they aren't producing.

This franchise moves at a glacial pace when it comes to making big moves. I think the Carr-Schaub situation is the only exception. Which is weird, because it was done so quickly when compared to how moves are normally made. I've stated that this glacial pace mentality is good in some ways, but bad in others. It's bad right now, because Cowher says he won't deal with any team who still has a coach.

Cowher would probably love to coach a defense that has Mario, DeMeco, and Cushing. That's three guys, up-front and in the trenches, whom Cowher can scheme his defense around. He can work with that. I know he can. He buttered his bread off of in-the-trenches defense.

He's going to have Andre Johnson. He has a highly-rated NFL passer who currently isn't allowed to audible to anything but a run. He has workable talent in the area of running backs, and I bet he loves Vonta Leach and would use him more than Leach is being used right now.

McNair won't do it, though. He goes the route of safety and security. Steady wins the race. Just be patient and it all works out.

LOL....

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 09:57 PM
He would probably switch, gradually. Which buys him at LEAST a year 'pass' with no playoffs. As much as I hate it ... a change in coaching means no playoffs anytime soon :(

Yep. That's what we have to get ready for. Whenever we do bring in a new coach, that's going to set us back at least two years. So, the question is, do we bring in a new coach now, or do we hope Kubiak pulls it together next season and give him another year? And, if we do give him another year and he doesn't pull it off, we'll fire him, but that would put us a year behind where we COULD HAVE BEEN had we fired him THIS year.

We, the fans are angry right now, but I would hate to be Bob McNair. He has a tough call.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 10:01 PM
I seriously don't think any of those players you mentioned would begin looking at the franchise in a negative manner if Kubiak were fired at midnight tonight.

In fact, I think they would be glad. Because the guys you listed, IMO, are guys who handle their business. And they, too, should know that they, too, could also be let go if they aren't producing.

This franchise moves at a glacial pace when it comes to making big moves. I think the Carr-Schaub situation is the only exception. Which is weird, because it was done so quickly when compared to how moves are normally made. I've stated that this glacial pace mentality is good in some ways, but bad in others. It's bad right now, because Cowher says he won't deal with any team who still has a coach.

Cowher would probably love to coach a defense that has Mario, DeMeco, and Cushing. That's three guys, up-front and in the trenches, whom Cowher can scheme his defense around. He can work with that. I know he can. He buttered his bread off of in-the-trenches defense.

He's going to have Andre Johnson. He has a highly-rated NFL passer who currently isn't allowed to audible to anything but a run. He has workable talent in the area of running backs, and I bet he loves Vonta Leach and would use him more than Leach is being used right now.

McNair won't do it, though. He goes the route of safety and security. Steady wins the race. Just be patient and it all works out.

LOL....


I don't know, man, the nasty look McNair had after the game was pretty telling. I think he has had enough.

LonerATO
11-29-2009, 10:01 PM
I still think the first year doesn't count due to the players on the team and coaching staff.

Wolf
11-29-2009, 10:03 PM
I don't see it bad as all. If McNair has a coach in mind that is available. I see nothing wrong with going after it now..get a head start on next season. It sure would be better now than a couple of weels before all the college offseason hoopla .

maybe McNair is checking with Dan Reeves right now :thinking: (that is a joke)

but what will be will be

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 10:04 PM
Yep. That's what we have to get ready for. Whenever we do bring in a new coach, that's going to set us back at least two years. So, the question is, do we bring in a new coach now, or do we hope Kubiak pulls it together next season and give him another year? And, if we do give him another year and he doesn't pull it off, we'll fire him, but that would put us a year behind where we COULD HAVE BEEN had we fired him THIS year.

We, the fans are angry right now, but I would hate to be Bob McNair. He has a tough call.

Miami, Atlanta, Denver, New Orleans, I could go on. Teams can switch coaches and immediately make the playoffs.

Kimmy
11-29-2009, 10:06 PM
Miami, Atlanta, Denver, New Orleans, I could go on. Teams can switch coaches and immediately make the playoffs.

Did they change schemes? (asking because I really don't know) I think that is the biggest question. If we get a 4/3 coach, then hells yeah. If we get a 3/4, then no.

OzzO
11-29-2009, 10:08 PM
I don't know, man, the nasty look McNair had after the game was pretty telling. I think he has had enough.

I'd love to see a pic of this "nasty look" McNair apparently had these past 2 games. I missed it and besides, it'd make a good avatar. :)

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 10:09 PM
Did they change schemes? (asking because I really don't know) I think that is the biggest question. If we get a 4/3 coach, then hells yeah. If we get a 3/4, then no.

Out of those teams that I mentioned I believe Miami did and I know Denver has this season. If we get a 3-4 DC that knows his stuff and gets our guys to be in the right place we will be just fine.

GP
11-29-2009, 10:14 PM
I don't know, man, the nasty look McNair had after the game was pretty telling. I think he has had enough.

Oh, I think you might have misunderstood.

I meant that McNair will do the predictable, which is to play "nice" and wait until Kubiak has finished the season.

McNair is predictable. And this team plays the same way. This team has HIS fingerprints and DNA all over it.

Bob McNair is the guy who plays blackjack one time, hits 21, and makes $20 bucks, and then walks away...never playing another single hand all night. He goes to bed later that night, and lays there with a huge a grin on his face, thinking that he really nailed the casino. LOL.

He's the guy who checks the air pressure in all four tires, every time before getting into the car. Adjusts the mirrors. Toots the horn. Like he's an airline pilot or something.

He's the guy who never strays from ordering the same old thing at the same old places he eats out at. He doesn't need a menu.

He's the guy who is a hitman's dream-come-true, never straying from his daily routine and always doing the same things at the same times. He's the guard in the video game who walks the same pattern, and you can count out how long it takes him to return to his post.

I can see why there have been a lot of fans coming here and saying that they are "done" with this team. With an owner like this, you know you have to basically LUCK your way into a good year.

houstonspartan
11-29-2009, 10:29 PM
Oh, I think you might have misunderstood.

I meant that McNair will do the predictable, which is to play "nice" and wait until Kubiak has finished the season.

McNair is predictable. And this team plays the same way. This team has HIS fingerprints and DNA all over it.

Bob McNair is the guy who plays blackjack one time, hits 21, and makes $20 bucks, and then walks away...never playing another single hand all night. He goes to bed later that night, and lays there with a huge a grin on his face, thinking that he really nailed the casino. LOL.

He's the guy who checks the air pressure in all four tires, every time before getting into the car. Adjusts the mirrors. Toots the horn. Like he's an airline pilot or something.

He's the guy who never strays from ordering the same old thing at the same old places he eats out at. He doesn't need a menu.

He's the guy who is a hitman's dream-come-true, never straying from his daily routine and always doing the same things at the same times. He's the guard in the video game who walks the same pattern, and you can count out how long it takes him to return to his post.

I can see why there have been a lot of fans coming here and saying that they are "done" with this team. With an owner like this, you know you have to basically LUCK your way into a good year.

LOL!! No, I understood you the first time.

I just think this may have been McNair's breaking point. He was humilated in his own house twice now, both on the national stage. Enough.

And, let's not forget that this man is a billionaire, so, I'm guessing he knows how to place a bet every now and then.

GP
11-29-2009, 10:37 PM
LOL!! No, I understood you the first time.

I just think this may have been McNair's breaking point. He was humilated in his own house twice now, both on the national stage. Enough.

And, let's not forget that this man is a billionaire, so, I'm guessing he knows how to place a bet every now and then.

Not sure how McNair got to where he's at.

But he does a great job with marketing the team. And this team is very squeeky clean in its player image off AND on the field, except for TJ doing a WWE taunt over Trent Green's limp body. LOL. Ah, memories....

Anyway, I think McNair handles BUSINESS very well. But the FOOTBALL side of it sure seems to lack in overall effectiveness in terms of producing a team who can compete on the field.

I wonder what would happen if we had (and good grief, I really do not "want" this guy) Tm Tebow? What if we had a squeeky clean white guy, a good Christian boy, with a strong jaw and poster-boy attributes, who could use his mobility to throw defenses off?

What if we didn't have the human sloth at QB?

Do we have Drew Bledsoe at QB? I am beginning to see the similarities a little bit. Oh well, if he got hurt...Orlovsky or Grossman could come in and pull a Tom Brady. Oh wait, but we're not going to the playoffs. And those two guys are not Tom Brady.

I get more depressed the more I type.

The Third Man
11-30-2009, 12:50 AM
Oh, I think you might have misunderstood.

I meant that McNair will do the predictable, which is to play "nice" and wait until Kubiak has finished the season.

McNair is predictable. And this team plays the same way. This team has HIS fingerprints and DNA all over it.

Bob McNair is the guy who plays blackjack one time, hits 21, and makes $20 bucks, and then walks away...never playing another single hand all night. He goes to bed later that night, and lays there with a huge a grin on his face, thinking that he really nailed the casino. LOL.

He's the guy who checks the air pressure in all four tires, every time before getting into the car. Adjusts the mirrors. Toots the horn. Like he's an airline pilot or something.

He's the guy who never strays from ordering the same old thing at the same old places he eats out at. He doesn't need a menu.

He's the guy who is a hitman's dream-come-true, never straying from his daily routine and always doing the same things at the same times. He's the guard in the video game who walks the same pattern, and you can count out how long it takes him to return to his post.

I can see why there have been a lot of fans coming here and saying that they are "done" with this team. With an owner like this, you know you have to basically LUCK your way into a good year.

I hate to jump into your little soliloquy here, but Bob McNair is not the problem. He brought football back to Houston at some considerable expense, hired established football people, gave them money and got out of their way. When that didn't work, he cleaned house and hired young and upcoming football people, left a blank checkbook and got out of their way. You know what owner makes a big splash and gets name coaches all of the time? Daniel Snyder. Just about every year. His teams suck, too.

houstonspartan
11-30-2009, 01:48 AM
I hate to jump into your little soliloquy here, but Bob McNair is not the problem. He brought football back to Houston at some considerable expense, hired established football people, gave them money and got out of their way. When that didn't work, he cleaned house and hired young and upcoming football people, left a blank checkbook and got out of their way. You know what owner makes a big splash and gets name coaches all of the time? Daniel Snyder. Just about every year. His teams suck, too.

Exactly. McNair is not cheap, nor does he micromanage.

And, he has said, several times, that 8-8 is not good enough.


He isn't the problem.

LonerATO
11-30-2009, 02:24 AM
Can we get some Fire McNair pink soap going? :splits:

Thorn
11-30-2009, 07:49 AM
I think there's a strong possibility Kubiak will not be back next year. That's too bad. I really wanted the home town boy to do good and turn this team around, but I'm afraid that isn't going to happen. And it would be for the best. Kubiak has shown he doesn't have what it takes to get the Texans to play consistent football from one half to the next, let alone from game to game. We have far to much talent on this team to be where we are.

I wonder what this means for Rick Smith? We he be around when Kubiak is gone? I guess it kind of depends on who they bring in.

Malloy
11-30-2009, 07:52 AM
I think there's a strong possibility Kubiak will not be back next year. That's too bad. I really wanted the home town boy to do good and turn this team around, but I'm afraid that isn't going to happen. And it would be for the best. Kubiak has shown he doesn't have what it takes to get the Texans to play consistent football from one half to the next, let alone from game to game. We have far to much talent on this team to be where we are.

I wonder what this means for Rick Smith? We he be around when Kubiak is gone? I guess it kind of depends on who they bring in.

I thought about that too, hopefully Rick Smith will be allowed to stay on and hire the new coach. These things are tough though, and it seems as if more often than not, some GMs and coaches stick together.

We'll see how it all works out in the end, as long as I have a Houston Texans team to cheer for next season, it ain't all bad :)

GP
11-30-2009, 09:19 AM
I hate to jump into your little soliloquy here, but Bob McNair is not the problem. He brought football back to Houston at some considerable expense, hired established football people, gave them money and got out of their way. When that didn't work, he cleaned house and hired young and upcoming football people, left a blank checkbook and got out of their way. You know what owner makes a big splash and gets name coaches all of the time? Daniel Snyder. Just about every year. His teams suck, too.

Here comes the obligatory "McNair brought football back to Houston" excuse again.

LOL.

At this rate, I think there are some who are wishing he had NOT brought football back to Houston.

Who cares if he doesn't micro-manage? I don't. This is about his selection of coaches, and his inability to cut them loose until after the 4th year.

Maybe the third time is a charm for Bob. Maybe we are going to see the playoffs by year 12 of this franchise.

Just because he bought the groceries doesn't mean I have to praise his lousy job of cooking the meal. The two are very different.

nero THE zero
11-30-2009, 09:31 AM
Who cares if he doesn't micro-manage? I don't. This is about his selection of coaches, and his inability to cut them loose until after the 4th year.


Where does the fault lie there?

Capers had the team steadily improve through the third season, when they went 7-9, the franchise's best record. He went 2-14 in his fourth season and was subsequently fired.

Kubiak successfully rebuilt that team and, while going 8-8 for two seasons in a row, has steadily improved the talent on the team. He also hasn't finished his fourth season.

I find no fault in holding onto Kubiak or Capers for a fourth season and, to the contrary, think McNair would be jumping the gun by letting either go prematurely. Obviously, it's playoffs or bust this year for Kubiak, and if McNair doesn't feel the same way then there's blame to be had. But, there's no reason, no indicators, and no track record to make any assumptions here.

I think you're either faulting McNair on faulty premises and/or on what you think he's going to do (i.e. not fire Kubiak after this season) rather than anything he's actually done.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 09:49 AM
Where does the fault lie there?

Capers had the team steadily improve through the third season, when they went 7-9, the franchise's best record. He went 2-14 in his fourth season and was subsequently fired.

Kubiak successfully rebuilt that team and, while going 8-8 for two seasons in a row, has steadily improved the talent on the team. He also hasn't finished his fourth season.

I find no fault in holding onto Kubiak or Capers for a fourth season and, to the contrary, think McNair would be jumping the gun by letting either go prematurely.

I think you're either faulting McNair on faulty premises and/or on what you think he's going to do (i.e. not fire Kubiak after this season) rather than anything he's actually done.

But we ARE NOT going ANYWHERE. What does a couple of 8-8 seasons do? Nothing. We want improvement to a winning record, not staying average. Yes, Kubiak improved this team talent wise, but his coaching still sucks. We have yet to really play a complete game. We need him gone for a new HC.

nero THE zero
11-30-2009, 09:55 AM
But we ARE NOT going ANYWHERE. What does a couple of 8-8 seasons do? Nothing. We want improvement to a winning record, not staying average. Yes, Kubiak improved this team talent wise, but his coaching still sucks. We have yet to really play a complete game. We need him gone for a new HC.

Agreed.

But, given the improvement on talent and the improvement of play (even though the record didn't necessarily reflect it), I think it was only fair to Kubiak, the players, and the fans to give him his fourth season to prove whether he was capable of taking this team over the hump or not.

We've obviously seen that he's not capable of such and changes need to be made accordingly. But, a change prior to this season would have been premature, IMO.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 09:58 AM
As someone who always thought Kubiak sucked, let me say 'i told you so'

He was hired as some sort of hometown hero and wouldn't have gotten a sniff with any other franchise. There is a reason for that. He isn't wired to be a head coach. He can't motivate. He sucks at clock and game management. He can't make adjustments in game.

He just sucks.

GO AWAY KUBIAK. YOU FREAKING SUCK DONKEY BALLS!!

GP
11-30-2009, 10:04 AM
Where does the fault lie there?

Capers had the team steadily improve through the third season, when they went 7-9, the franchise's best record. He went 2-14 in his fourth season and was subsequently fired.

Kubiak successfully rebuilt that team and, while going 8-8 for two seasons in a row, has steadily improved the talent on the team. He also hasn't finished his fourth season.

I find no fault in holding onto Kubiak or Capers for a fourth season and, to the contrary, think McNair would be jumping the gun by letting either go prematurely. Obviously, it's playoffs or bust this year for Kubiak, and if McNair doesn't feel the same way then there's blame to be had. But, there's no reason, no indicators, and no track record to make any assumptions here.

I think you're either faulting McNair on faulty premises and/or on what you think he's going to do (i.e. not fire Kubiak after this season) rather than anything he's actually done.

I don't think NFL teams win with the type of people-handling mentality that Bob McNair has displayed.

Holding onto David Carr, via the $8 million extension for his last year with us, was very telling. Bob basically showed that he will go above and beyond the normal call of duty when it comes to trying to rescue a favored person's career with the Texans. He wanted to see Carr make it through the storm.

He wanted to see Capers make it through the storm.

He wants to see Kubiak make it through the storm.

I keep saying it, just so that people hear me clearly: There is SOME good that comes with this sort of mentality (guys know they can get a second chance). And there is some BAD with this mentality (you prolong the suffering of LOTS of people).

I try to boil things down to their lowest base. And in my opinion, our owner is a guy who thinks he can win with his way of doing things. Want to know why we just can't seem to get over the hump and put games away? Maybe it's because we have an owner who likes to give people lots and lots of second and third and fourth chances on a regular, habitual basis.

This team, IMO, plays like its owner. It's soft, clean, and likes to be nice to others.

Bill Cowher just might be THE only guy who is big enough to snap this team out of that mindset and to play cut-throat football that intends to do violence to the other teams' psyche on a consistent basis.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 10:12 AM
And we'd be an absolute scary team if we played the Cowher way on a consistent basis. We have the talent...easily. Just the coaching is ass.

nero THE zero
11-30-2009, 10:18 AM
He wanted to see Capers make it through the storm.

He wants to see Kubiak make it through the storm.


You keep repeating this as if it makes it fact.

McNair was certainly at fault for extending Carr and making Caper's replacement contingent on their willingness to work with him. But, citing his handling of Capers and Kubiak is pretty baseless.

At what point before Capers' 2-14 season would you fire him? He went from four, to five, to seven wins. He had a history of being successful with expansion franchises and was trending in the right direction.

On what grounds would you fire Kubiak prior to this season? Obviously he's had issues with game management, but he's rebuilt this team very successfully, he's implemented one of the best passing schemes in the league, he has gathered premium talent, and, while not posting a good number of wins, he has won enough to show potential. I don't think it's off base to say prior to this season we'd be better off with a different coach, but I do think it's off base to hold it against anyone for giving him a fourth season to prove his worth.

You might ultimately be right about McNair, but your arguments based off one bad decision and a bunch of assumptions right now.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 10:21 AM
In my opinion, Kubiak has done pretty much all he can do. I don't think he'll be able to push this team forward. He compiled the talent, but can't work with it. Bring in someone new.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 10:24 AM
I'm not goignt to say cohwer is not a upgrade as a coach, i'm just going to say i think it would be a mistake if the fire kubiak if he finishes 8-8 or with a winning record. When you make a move like that and have that type of transition, it may take some time. Cowher did well with the steelers, but tomlin came in and won a bowl after 2 yrs. Is that to say tomlin was a better coach? The steelers organization could be the trump card and not cowher. Not to mention the transition from 4-3 to 3-4 which would basically scrap okoye,ryans,adibi,diles,cody, just to name a few. I think he has done a good job and its easy because the team is in a litle slump. Its not out of the question for this team to win 9 or 10 games this yr.

Pantherstang84
11-30-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm not goignt to say cohwer is not a upgrade as a coach, i'm just going to say i think it would be a mistake if the fire kubiak if he finishes 8-8 or with a winning record. When you make a move like that and have that type of transition, it may take some time. Cowher did well with the steelers, but tomlin came in and won a bowl after 2 yrs. Is that to say tomlin was a better coach? The steelers organization could be the trump card and not cowher. Not to mention the transition from 4-3 to 3-4 which would basically scrap okoye,ryans,adibi,diles,cody, just to name a few. I think he has done a good job and its easy because the team is in a litle slump. Its not out of the question for this team to win 9 or 10 games this yr.

:clown:

GP
11-30-2009, 10:41 AM
You keep repeating this as if it makes it fact.

McNair was certainly at fault for extending Carr and making Caper's replacement contingent on their willingness to work with him. But, citing his handling of Capers and Kubiak is pretty baseless.

At what point before Capers' 2-14 season would you fire him? He went from four, to five, to seven wins. He had a history of being successful with expansion franchises and was trending in the right direction.

On what grounds would you fire Kubiak prior to this season? Obviously he's had issues with game management, but he's rebuilt this team very successfully, he's implemented one of the best passing schemes in the league, he has gathered premium talent, and, while not posting a good number of wins, he has won enough to show potential. I don't think it's off base to say prior to this season we'd be better off with a different coach, but I do think it's off base to hold it against anyone for giving him a fourth season to prove his worth.

You might ultimately be right about McNair, but your arguments based off one bad decision and a bunch of assumptions right now.

So if I go and buy some groceries, and you come to my house for a meal, and you eat the meal and it tastes like poop...but I repeat this process and for the next 8 visits to my house you continue to eat poopy meals that I created...then I can say "but I bought the groceries" and it makes it all better?

Some people throw out the "He brought football back to Houston" ploy, which is saying "Don't complain, because you wouldn't even be suffering through 8 years of mediocre football had it not been for McNair."

In the end, I think organizations take on the persona of their ultimate leader (the guy at the top).

I dare to make the assumption, and thus far the glove seems to fit.

Mr. White
11-30-2009, 10:51 AM
Hire Mike Leach ftw

GP
11-30-2009, 10:58 AM
Hire Mike Leach ftw

I used to be a Mike Leach guy. But man, the guy is weird.

He played Sheffield (hurt) when he should have played Potts.

Sometimes I think he out-thinks himself. Very fun to watch, don't get me wrong, but I think he has maybe one or two more seasons left at Tech before that town grows tired of him.

Redtexan#34
11-30-2009, 11:03 AM
I was listening this morning to the local talk radio here in Beaumont. The guy that does the 5 min sport recap said he was at the colts game yesterday and said in the 4th qrt that fans were chanting "COWHER". I didnt here this on the tv i was wondering if anyone could verify this and if so did it take place when McNair was on the sideline.

TD
11-30-2009, 11:33 AM
These threads always make me think of a certain Texas head coach who in his first five years went 0-11-1, 4-9-1, 5-8-1, 4-10, and 5-8-1.....went on to do pretty well for himself.

I know this is a "win now" league, but I refuse to believe that coaching turnover is the solution. If you're not going to give a coach five years to do his job, don't sign him to a five year contract.

That said...if an elite coach (like Cowher) would take the job...bye bye Kubes....I ain't that dumb. But at the same time, don't fire Kubiak for another run of the mill recycled or rookie coach.

ObsiWan
11-30-2009, 11:35 AM
I'm not goignt to say cohwer is not a upgrade as a coach, i'm just going to say i think it would be a mistake if the fire kubiak if he finishes 8-8 or with a winning record. When you make a move like that and have that type of transition, it may take some time. Cowher did well with the steelers, but tomlin came in and won a bowl after 2 yrs. Is that to say tomlin was a better coach? The steelers organization could be the trump card and not cowher. Not to mention the transition from 4-3 to 3-4 which would basically scrap okoye,ryans,adibi,diles,cody, just to name a few. I think he has done a good job and its easy because the team is in a litle slump. Its not out of the question for this team to win 9 or 10 games this yr.

Ding!
Ding!
Ding!
Ding!
We have a winner. Think about it folks. It took Cowher, what 14-15 yrs to win a Super Bowl with the remnants of a Chuck Knoll team. It only took Tomlin two years to win a Super Bowl with, basically, the same team Cowher left behind - did I mention he went 8-8 with that team?
It wasn't Cowher, it was the Steeler org. which included Dick LeBeau running that defense.

kastofsna
11-30-2009, 11:47 AM
that doesn't mean Cowher isn't a good coach. first of all, he has a great record as a coach. yes, it took him a while to win a Super Bowl, but um...winning a Super Bowl isn't easy, and to take that away from him is silly. the team has been in place to win won multiple times during his tenure, but he lost to better teams. that's the way it works. there are very few coaches who are "the greatest of all time," and then there are a bunch of really, really good ones. Cowher is one of the really, really good ones. if you have a chance at him, you'd be dumb to turn him down.

GP
11-30-2009, 11:58 AM
Ding!
Ding!
Ding!
Ding!
We have a winner. Think about it folks. It took Cowher, what 14-15 yrs to win a Super Bowl with the remnants of a Chuck Knoll team. It only took Tomlin two years to win a Super Bowl with, basically, the same team Cowher left behind - did I mention he went 8-8 with that team?
It wasn't Cowher, it was the Steeler org. which included Dick LeBeau running that defense.

Or it took Cowher 14-15 years of rebuilding the leftovers of Knoll's team.

And then, Tomlin is enjoying the fruits of Cowher's labor.

The Steelers team could not have achieved what it achieved IN SPITE OF Bill Cowher. He was very much a reason as to why they became who they are today.

My only concern with Cowher is the Jimmy Johnson-Dolphins scenario: Does Cowher have enough in the tank that he REALLY REALLY wants to help Houston take it to the next level, or has he achieved what he set out to achieve...and he doesn't have the stamina to go through it again?

In the end, he might very well decide that what he did was enough. He probably doesn't want to risk tarnishing his legacy by coming to Houston. There are certainly many, many reasons as to why the Great Bill Cowher Experiment is (a) not going to happen, or (b) not going to work out even if it's attempted.

ObsiWan
11-30-2009, 12:16 PM
that doesn't mean Cowher isn't a good coach. first of all, he has a great record as a coach. yes, it took him a while to win a Super Bowl, but um...winning a Super Bowl isn't easy, and to take that away from him is silly. the team has been in place to win won multiple times during his tenure, but he lost to better teams. that's the way it works. there are very few coaches who are "the greatest of all time," and then there are a bunch of really, really good ones. Cowher is one of the really, really good ones. if you have a chance at him, you'd be dumb to turn him down.

I'm just not impressed with him.
Wonder what he would have done with the cast of misfits Kubiak inherited. Cowher (and to be fair Tomlin too) had multiple pro bowlers on their team when they stepped in.

Let's count shall we...
Dermonti Dawson - C
Carlton Haselrig - RG
Neil O'Donnell - QB
Barry Foster - RB (1690 yds that year)
Greg Lloyd - OLB
Rod Woodson - CB
That's six; add to these guys like Hardy Nickerson and Carnell Lake, who are near pro-bowl quality, and you've got a pretty good squad. I doubt if the present-day Texans could beat them.

And they were only two years removed from winning the division under Chuck Knoll.

Did Kubiak inherit anything like that?

I guess my beef is that I hate to see a guy plow the ground, till the soil, pull all the weeds, plant and fertilize the crops only to fire the farmer and then let someone else come in and harvest the fruits of all that work. When the new farmer didn't so squat but drive the combine.

That's no where close to fair IMHO. See the Dungy/Gruden Buccaneers.

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 12:22 PM
You keep repeating this as if it makes it fact.

McNair was certainly at fault for extending Carr and making Caper's replacement contingent on their willingness to work with him. But, citing his handling of Capers and Kubiak is pretty baseless.

At what point before Capers' 2-14 season would you fire him? He went from four, to five, to seven wins. He had a history of being successful with expansion franchises and was trending in the right direction.

On what grounds would you fire Kubiak prior to this season? Obviously he's had issues with game management, but he's rebuilt this team very successfully, he's implemented one of the best passing schemes in the league, he has gathered premium talent, and, while not posting a good number of wins, he has won enough to show potential. I don't think it's off base to say prior to this season we'd be better off with a different coach, but I do think it's off base to hold it against anyone for giving him a fourth season to prove his worth.

You might ultimately be right about McNair, but your arguments based off one bad decision and a bunch of assumptions right now.

This IS his fourth year....so we were patient. time to go, Kubiak

mussop
11-30-2009, 12:28 PM
I'm just not impressed with him.
Wonder what he would have done with the cast of misfits Kubiak inherited. Cowher (and to be fair Tomlin too) had multiple pro bowlers on their team when they stepped in.

Let's count shall we...
Dermonti Dawson - C
Carlton Haselrig - RG
Neil O'Donnell - QB
Barry Foster - RB (1690 yds that year)
Greg Lloyd - OLB
Rod Woodson - CB
That's six; add to these guys like Hardy Nickerson and Carnell Lake, who are near pro-bowl quality, and you've got a pretty good squad. I doubt if the present-day Texans could beat them.



Which is why I want Cowher as coach and the guy responsible for drafting all that talent to come with him. The guy im talking about wasnt Pitts GM, I think he was the director of scouting. Anyone know who im talking about? Wanna say TOM something. Ill have to look it up.

kastofsna
11-30-2009, 12:30 PM
I'm just not impressed with him.
Wonder what he would have done with the cast of misfits Kubiak inherited. Cowher (and to be fair Tomlin too) had multiple pro bowlers on their team when they stepped in.

Let's count shall we...
Dermonti Dawson - C
Carlton Haselrig - RG
Neil O'Donnell - QB
Barry Foster - RB (1690 yds that year)
Greg Lloyd - OLB
Rod Woodson - CB
That's six; add to these guys like Hardy Nickerson and Carnell Lake, who are near pro-bowl quality, and you've got a pretty good squad. I doubt if the present-day Texans could beat them.

And they were only two years removed from winning the division under Chuck Knoll.

Did Kubiak inherit anything like that?

I guess my beef is that I hate to see a guy plow the ground, till the soil, pull all the weeds, plant and fertilize the crops only to fire the farmer and then let someone else come in and harvest the fruits of all that work. When the new farmer didn't so squat but drive the combine.

That's no where close to fair IMHO. See the Dungy/Gruden Buccaneers.

Cowher inherited good players, went to the Super Bowl, then all of those players left and he replaced them with even better players and won the Super Bowl years later, following several conference championship game appearances. then Mike Tomlin won the Super Bowl with the players drafted, coached, and already won a Super Bowl with. there's no comparison to Gruden here. Gruden won with Dungy's players, then promptly destroyed the team with his own drafting and awful free agency signings. Cowher went to the Super Bowl with a lot of Knoll's players, then rebuilt the team and still managed to stay consistently good for over a decade and a half, winning a Super Bowl as well.

throughout his 15 years as coach, the Steelers ranked, on average, 7th in the NFL in total defense. you would turn that down because of his success very early in his career with someone else's players, and completely ignoring the rest of his career, where he was great with HIS players? silly.

GP
11-30-2009, 12:33 PM
I'm just not impressed with him.
Wonder what he would have done with the cast of misfits Kubiak inherited. Cowher (and to be fair Tomlin too) had multiple pro bowlers on their team when they stepped in.

Let's count shall we...
Dermonti Dawson - C
Carlton Haselrig - RG
Neil O'Donnell - QB
Barry Foster - RB (1690 yds that year)
Greg Lloyd - OLB
Rod Woodson - CB
That's six; add to these guys like Hardy Nickerson and Carnell Lake, who are near pro-bowl quality, and you've got a pretty good squad. I doubt if the present-day Texans could beat them.

And they were only two years removed from winning the division under Chuck Knoll.

Did Kubiak inherit anything like that?

I guess my beef is that I hate to see a guy plow the ground, till the soil, pull all the weeds, plant and fertilize the crops only to fire the farmer and then let someone else come in and harvest the fruits of all that work. When the new farmer didn't so squat but drive the combine.

That's no where close to fair IMHO. See the Dungy/Gruden Buccaneers.

It's not fair?

Fairness doesn't exist.

GP
11-30-2009, 12:34 PM
Cowher inherited good players, went to the Super Bowl, then all of those players left and he replaced them with even better players and won the Super Bowl years later, following several conference championship game appearances. then Mike Tomlin won the Super Bowl with the players drafted, coached, and already won a Super Bowl with. there's no comparison to Gruden here. Gruden won with Dungy's players, then promptly destroyed the team with his own drafting and awful free agency signings. Cowher went to the Super Bowl with a lot of Knoll's players, then rebuilt the team and still managed to stay consistently good for over a decade and a half, winning a Super Bowl as well.

throughout his 15 years as coach, the Steelers ranked, on average, 7th in the NFL in total defense. you would turn that down because of his success very early in his career with someone else's players, and completely ignoring the rest of his career, where he was great with HIS players? silly.

This.

:clap:

ObsiWan
11-30-2009, 12:35 PM
Or it took Cowher 14-15 years of rebuilding the leftovers of Knoll's team.
See my previous post; Cowher inherited 6 pro bowlers and one Hall of Famer. Now granted, he took Chuck's leftovers to the playoffs his first year there. And for the next 3-4 seasons thereafter. But then, how hard was it to win your division when it's the Bengals, Browns, and Oilers (yeah, the 90s Oilers that butthead Bud dismantled).

And then, Tomlin is enjoying the fruits of Cowher's labor.
Agreed.

The Steelers team could not have achieved what it achieved IN SPITE OF Bill Cowher. He was very much a reason as to why they became who they are today.
I'm thinking he carried the torch that Chuck Knoll lit in the 70s.

My only concern with Cowher is the Jimmy Johnson-Dolphins scenario: Does Cowher have enough in the tank that he REALLY REALLY wants to help Houston take it to the next level, or has he achieved what he set out to achieve...and he doesn't have the stamina to go through it again?

In the end, he might very well decide that what he did was enough. He probably doesn't want to risk tarnishing his legacy by coming to Houston. There are certainly many, many reasons as to why the Great Bill Cowher Experiment is (a) not going to happen, or (b) not going to work out even if it's attempted.
Those are excellent questions. He took over the Steelers at 35. What is he now, 50-something? Can he bring the same fire he did then? Especially after muggin in front of the cameras and chilling out with the fam for the past two years.

What you're kinda asking is, "Is he still the hungry young man that ran the Steelers for 14-15 years until he finally won the 'Big One'?" or would he just be coming back for that mega-paycheck that is sure to be offered up to him??
That's a VERY interesting question...

Second Honeymoon
11-30-2009, 12:35 PM
These threads always make me think of a certain Texas head coach who in his first five years went 0-11-1, 4-9-1, 5-8-1, 4-10, and 5-8-1.....went on to do pretty well for himself.

I know this is a "win now" league, but I refuse to believe that coaching turnover is the solution. If you're not going to give a coach five years to do his job, don't sign him to a five year contract.

That said...if an elite coach (like Cowher) would take the job...bye bye Kubes....I ain't that dumb. But at the same time, don't fire Kubiak for another run of the mill recycled or rookie coach.

exactly TD. great post.

i am not for firing Kubiak just to fire him. it has to be an upgrade and this is the year for hiring a top head coach.

another thing, people need to stop freaking out about the 4-3 to 3-4. that is just an excuse used by teams that are losing or people who are too scared to make a change. I can't think of any player outside of our DTs (which pretty much suck anyway) that would be adversely affected. It's not like it takes a year to go into effect or that its some long arduous rebuilding project. Look at what Gregg Williams did in New Orleans in one season. he comes in, puts the system in, adds a few players, guys starting making plays and the Saints D is no longer a joke.

i want someone i can believe in and someone that i know can get the job done. are you really going to bring Kubiak back as a lame duck coach without a contract or God forbid, re-sign him to an extension?

are you kidding me? we can't sit around and wait for Gary to figure out how to be an NFL head coach. he is just in over his head right now and rookie head coaches are coming in and making better half time adjustments and inspiring the troops more. What did Kubiak say at halftime? They came out listless and uninspired.

The thing that sucked the most about the game other than losing again, was Andre's face. With the whole Uncle Agent thing and the talk of him possibly demanding a trade if things don't improve, it just scares me. I know he came out and denied and distanced himself from his Uncle, but I am sure the frustration is there. AJ looked pissed.

Pantherstang84
11-30-2009, 12:42 PM
exactly TD. great post.

i am not for firing Kubiak just to fire him. it has to be an upgrade and this is the year for hiring a top head coach.

another thing, people need to stop freaking out about the 4-3 to 3-4. that is just an excuse used by teams that are losing or people who are too scared to make a change. I can't think of any player outside of our DTs (which pretty much suck anyway) that would be adversely affected. It's not like it takes a year to go into effect or that its some long arduous rebuilding project. Look at what Gregg Williams did in New Orleans in one season. he comes in, puts the system in, adds a few players, guys starting making plays and the Saints D is no longer a joke.

i want someone i can believe in and someone that i know can get the job done. are you really going to bring Kubiak back as a lame duck coach without a contract or God forbid, re-sign him to an extension?

are you kidding me? we can't sit around and wait for Gary to figure out how to be an NFL head coach. he is just in over his head right now and rookie head coaches are coming in and making better half time adjustments and inspiring the troops more. What did Kubiak say at halftime? They came out listless and uninspired.

The thing that sucked the most about the game other than losing again, was Andre's face. With the whole Uncle Agent thing and the talk of him possibly demanding a trade if things don't improve, it just scares me. I know he came out and denied and distanced himself from his Uncle, but I am sure the frustration is there. AJ looked pissed.

Good. He should be pissed but he is not pissed enough to get into someone's grill when they are screwing up. Players like AJ cannot just sit there anymore. Some players need to take charge. If he is unwilling to do it, he is part of the problem of the organization. Great players take on the leadership role. Name me one who hasn't.

How many drops did AJ have yesterday?

CloakNNNdagger
11-30-2009, 12:52 PM
This may not be the most appropriate place to post this, but it sure gives you a contrast between the philosophy of a successful franchise and one that thinks they are trying to be successful. It's all about core values..........correct core values.

Jim Caldwell fits perfectly in the Indianapolis template.LINK (Jim Caldwell fits perfectly in the Indianapolis template.)

The rookie Colts coach is 11-0, and he had the same reaction about his wonderful start as his predecessor would have had. "I understand the gravity of it, because so many great men have coached in this league,'' Caldwell said after becoming the first NFL coach to win the first 11 games of his pro career. "I am humbled. I am honored. I am fortunate to be in this position. I'm a traditionalist. I admired Vince Lombardi a lot growing up. On the den in my basement is a picture of George Halas, Dick Butkus and Gale Sayers. Being one of the 32 men to be a head coach in this league means a great deal to me.''

So far, the new Caldwell is much like the old Tony Dungy. He's plain-spoken. Players thought he might be a little more fiery, but they've found him to be as thoughtful as Dungy and maybe slightly louder. But not much. When he spoke at halftime in Houston, his team down 20-7, all he talked about was an old football bromide: "We have to take back both lines of scrimmage.'' No screaming. Just a statement of fact. The Colts proceeded to reel off the next 28 points.

It always helps to have Peyton Manning on your side. The Colts have started 13-0 (2005), 9-0 (2006), 7-0 (2007) and now 11-0, and it's clear that he's the greatest asset to the winningest regular-season team of the decade. But what the Colts have done is put a system in place, from the front office on down, that ensures a smooth passage from one year to the next. That's the reason the Colts will prosper for as long as Manning is playing. Check your ego at the door and do what's best for the team.

That's one reason owner Jim Irsay signed Bill Polian's son Chris to be the long-term general manager the other day while Bill was still in place as franchise architect. Irsay didn't want the younger Polian to leave the Colts without a logical successor when Bill Polian steps away from the team in two or three or four years. "We'll continue to build the team with the same kind of philosophy and core values,'' Chris Polian told me. "With fast players who play 60 minutes and who play smart. At the same time, we'll look for new ideas to make sure we don't get stale. We have a great situation here. We've always talked about the Rooneys and the Maras as the role models for how an organizations should be built.''

I asked Caldwell if the Colts would handle the last two or three games of the year differently than they did under Dungy. You're familiar with the national debate about going for the undefeated season. The Patriots went for it in 2007 and got to 16-0, only to lose in the Super Bowl. The Colts have thumbed their noses at it, preferring to be in the best possible physical condition entering the playoffs. That's how Dungy and Bill Polian believed the season should be -- once you've earned home-field advantage, rest your players and be in good position for the second season. Caldwell sounded no different Sunday afternoon when we spoke.

"It'll be somewhat similar to what we've done,'' he said. "Going undefeated was always a secondary goal. I don't think we'll put too much emphasis on that.''

The Colts won't be known as the team of the decade because of their middling playoff success. Eight times since 2000 they've made the playoffs; five times they've lost their first game. Probably the biggest criticism of Dungy as a coach was his practice of resting players for the playoffs each year once there was nothing to play for but the final record. Get ready for more of the same debate this year. Knowing Caldwell, he'll be like Dungy was. It won't faze him.

nero THE zero
11-30-2009, 01:06 PM
This IS his fourth year....so we were patient. time to go, Kubiak

Yep.

utahmark
11-30-2009, 03:29 PM
charlie wies just became available, not that we should hire him.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 03:31 PM
Maybe as a OC or something.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 03:33 PM
that doesn't mean Cowher isn't a good coach. first of all, he has a great record as a coach. yes, it took him a while to win a Super Bowl, but um...winning a Super Bowl isn't easy, and to take that away from him is silly. the team has been in place to win won multiple times during his tenure, but he lost to better teams. that's the way it works. there are very few coaches who are "the greatest of all time," and then there are a bunch of really, really good ones. Cowher is one of the really, really good ones. if you have a chance at him, you'd be dumb to turn him down.

Cowher made it to the Super Bowl like ten years earlier, too. Just ran into the Cowboys dynasty.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 03:37 PM
Cowher inherited good players, went to the Super Bowl, then all of those players left and he replaced them with even better players and won the Super Bowl years later, following several conference championship game appearances. then Mike Tomlin won the Super Bowl with the players drafted, coached, and already won a Super Bowl with. there's no comparison to Gruden here. Gruden won with Dungy's players, then promptly destroyed the team with his own drafting and awful free agency signings. Cowher went to the Super Bowl with a lot of Knoll's players, then rebuilt the team and still managed to stay consistently good for over a decade and a half, winning a Super Bowl as well.

throughout his 15 years as coach, the Steelers ranked, on average, 7th in the NFL in total defense. you would turn that down because of his success very early in his career with someone else's players, and completely ignoring the rest of his career, where he was great with HIS players? silly.

From what pat kirwin says on nfl radio, cowher aint going anywhere unless he's given total control. Now we've seen the steelers infastructure to be the best in football for a long time and if cowher cant get some of those scouts and other guys here, what makes the texans fan think they will all of a sudden elevate above what they're doing now? I will say for arguments sake, i think cowher gets the most from his talent, but its not like those steeler teams didn't have talent. I'm all for upgrading any position and any coach, but just like the steelers have shown, there is something good about patience also. With the language in the offense and the defense seems settled, i would rather go with holmgren. I think the only change offensively would be bigger lineman inside and truthfully, i think the defense is fine. He has a ring and was a winner also, plus he has some experience in personel side. he would be the playcaller over shanny jr. Bring in cowher and you will turn the roster upside down and i don't think thats what you want to do.

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 03:38 PM
Didn't Mike Holmgren already say he isn't looking for a coaching job, and instead a front office job? I'm pretty sure he said that. And I HIGHLY doubt our roster would be turned "upside-down" with Cowher. There isn't much that needs too much change, even if our defense switches to 3-4.

nero THE zero
11-30-2009, 03:44 PM
i would rather go with holmgren. I think the only change offensively would be bigger lineman inside and truthfully, i think the defense is fine. He has a ring and was a winner also, plus he has some experience in personel side. he would be the playcaller over shanny jr. Bring in cowher and you will turn the roster upside down and i don't think thats what you want to do.

Yea, he has experience at the personnel side; experience in being so bad at it that he had his personnel duties stripped from him.

I know some people are opposed to Cowher getting personnel control, and that's fine. Coaches working in dual capacity usually don't work out. Personally, I don't mind it because he hasn't given me any reason to think he wouldn't be good at it, and I'm willing to take that risk if I get the benefit of him being my HC.

What I find funny here is that you advocate against giving Cowher personnel control, though he's never proven such ability either way, and for Holmgren, who's proven incapable of such. Seems backwards to me.

leebigeztx
11-30-2009, 06:51 PM
Yea, he has experience at the personnel side; experience in being so bad at it that he had his personnel duties stripped from him.

I know some people are opposed to Cowher getting personnel control, and that's fine. Coaches working in dual capacity usually don't work out. Personally, I don't mind it because he hasn't given me any reason to think he wouldn't be good at it, and I'm willing to take that risk if I get the benefit of him being my HC.

What I find funny here is that you advocate against giving Cowher personnel control, though he's never proven such ability either way, and for Holmgren, who's proven incapable of such. Seems backwards to me.

I personally don't think holmgren or cowher should be given total control and despite holmgren's perceived failures, he did draft some pretty good players while in charge. Not to mention, he turned around 2 pathetic franchises while in charge. Holmgren would be better suited to me because the offense and defense are kinda in place now. He does prefer bigger interior lineman and run more power zone and g power stuff, but the language is pretty similar. Cowher would turn that defense of front 7 upside down. The only guys that fit the 3-4 are williams and cushing. I guess since smith played in the hybrid last yr in arizona, you could say him, but i'm not so sure. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but ryans,and every other lb is gone also.

I think they should stay the course unless they go into the tank. I never said cowher wasnt a great coach, i just wonder how much of it was the steelers organization vs cowher himself. At least holmgren has shown he can win in 2 different places.

False Start
11-30-2009, 09:06 PM
Just thought I would try and raise awareness to the illness that has infected our head coach, Gary Kubiak.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/capers_syndromejpg444-4.jpg
:(

jjjezebel
11-30-2009, 10:24 PM
Just thought I would try and raise awareness to the illness that has infected our head coach, Gary Kubiak.


http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii202/J4103V/capers_syndrome3-1.jpg

:(

Hehe...mind if I swipe this pic to use on my blog? It illustrates perfectly the post I wrote last night after the game.

Nawzer
11-30-2009, 11:03 PM
Unless Bill Cowher can kick field goals, convert 3rd & inches from the goal line, pass rush, and protect the QB it won't matter who the head coach is. I'm a fan of Cowher and I think he would be an upgrade over Kubiak, but I just don't see it happening at this point. The games we've lost this season imho are all the players fault. Kris Brown potentially cost us 2 games. The way we lost the Arizona and Jacksonville game is directly because of the players. I feel bad for Kubiak because I think he's a good coach but when players don't execute there's nothing you can do no matter who the coach is.

Carr Bombed
11-30-2009, 11:49 PM
Unless Bill Cowher can kick field goals, convert 3rd & inches from the goal line, pass rush, and protect the QB it won't matter who the head coach is. I'm a fan of Cowher and I think he would be an upgrade over Kubiak, but I just don't see it happening at this point. The games we've lost this season imho are all the players fault. Kris Brown potentially cost us 2 games. The way we lost the Arizona and Jacksonville game is directly because of the players. I feel bad for Kubiak because I think he's a good coach but when players don't execute there's nothing you can do no matter who the coach is.

Bill Cowher is a former special teams coach, that's where he made his name coming up and even when he was a head coach he still was heavily involved with the special teams and was notorious for riding his kickers. If Cowher was here, Kris Brown wouldn't be......after all Cowher was the guy who originally sent his ass packing.

Also Kubiak is responsible for our short yardage failures, because he coaches a pansy ass finesse scheme centered around light weight lineman who can't move people around or simply get blown the hell off the ball. Cowher would never stand for that and I guarantee you we wouldn't be having the same reoccurring problems for 4 damn years with him at the helm.

You create your own luck in this league.....Kubiak has created alot of his bad luck. He never gave his QB any running game to speak of (A QB I think we can win with, if we had a power running game...which Cowher would bring) and he never really held players accountable (the "chin" would be ripping ass on the sideline if one of his teams came out flat for a entire half). Cowher wouldn't put up with Dunta's crap either.

Kubiak's teams when you get down to it are coached to be a bunch of softies mentally and physically, which is why we can't put teams away or can't even pick up a damn yard to put them away. The saddest thing is that the rest of the league knows this is one of the "softest" teams in the entire league.....it's probably a running joke around NFL circles. Jeff Fisher and the Titans sure as hell get a big laugh out of it. :rolleyes: His teams are also undisciplined and unprepared, which is the reason why we have so many costly damn turnovers every freaking year, start the season slow, or simply get outsmarted on the field all the damn time. See Peyton's 30 yard pass in this past game.......see JDR abusing our punt coverage team last year....see the 49ers ripping off three straight second half TDs with the same ****ing play over and over. This team just doesn't "get it" and neither does the coaching staff.

It's all about discipline and professionalism, Kubiak acts like he's coaching a pop warner team with "the kids" :rolleyes:

GuerillaBlack
11-30-2009, 11:52 PM
^^Hopefully if we get Cowher, we don't start seeing players bust out in tears during practice.

MannyFresh
11-30-2009, 11:54 PM
Imagine the players who will want to come play for him....players love and respect this guy.

nero THE zero
12-01-2009, 09:36 AM
I personally don't think holmgren or cowher should be given total control and despite holmgren's perceived failures, he did draft some pretty good players while in charge. Not to mention, he turned around 2 pathetic franchises while in charge. Holmgren would be better suited to me because the offense and defense are kinda in place now. He does prefer bigger interior lineman and run more power zone and g power stuff, but the language is pretty similar. Cowher would turn that defense of front 7 upside down. The only guys that fit the 3-4 are williams and cushing. I guess since smith played in the hybrid last yr in arizona, you could say him, but i'm not so sure. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but ryans,and every other lb is gone also.

I think they should stay the course unless they go into the tank. I never said cowher wasnt a great coach, i just wonder how much of it was the steelers organization vs cowher himself. At least holmgren has shown he can win in 2 different places.
You make a good case for Holmgren over Cowher. To take your point on the 3-4 a bit further, one of the reasons Antonio Smith signed here over, say, re-signing with the Cardinals is that he prefers playing in the 4-3 over the 3-4. So, your point is certainly valid there.

I just think you're going to have to grant any of these big name HC personnel control if you want them here. I'd rather someone who has a blank slate in that regard rather than someone who has proven inept at it.

And, to clarify, Holmgren was unable to coach and run personnel, he might be great at doing either, just not good at both.

Dread-Head
12-01-2009, 10:03 AM
I'm not in the group that wants Kubiak out, but if the season spirals downward from yesterday, then I will be in that group soon.

That said, I thought we could throw some names out that could be available at seasons end.

Jon Gruden

Sure...if we can remove Vince Young's genitalia from his mouth he might make a GREAT coach again. No wait. That one title he got in Tampa Bay was on a team BUILT by Tony Dungee. Sorry No dice, let Chucky stick to being a biased color commentary guy. He seems to be good at it.

GP
12-01-2009, 10:41 AM
Holmgren does nothing for me. Since the glory days at Green Bay, what has he done...other than stand on the sideline and get red-faced mad and stare hatefully at his own players. He's a Denny's menu guy, too, IMO.

Gruden does even less for me. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. That's Gruden, IMO. Tom Coughlin (and I know he's not available) does more for me than Gruden, and I'm not a big fan of Coughlin's coaching. So that tells you how much I think of Gruden.

I would be happier with Cowher, and to a lesser extent I would be OK with Mike Shanahan (though his rapid decline in Denver makes me nervous about his ability to be connected to today's NFL level/standard of play).

Folks, we need a coach who can wade through all the junk and make this team hold itself to a higher standard.

One of the reasons I like Mike Shanahan is because he knows the Denver system already, and so there wouuld be less drastic change and PERHAPS a better chance at staying competitive in the first season of rebuilding.

To me, Mike Shanahan and Bill Cowher are the best available in terms of who could likely take what we have and make it better.

Dread-Head
12-01-2009, 10:51 AM
Cowher said he's interested in either Houston or Chicago...I say the Texans make a play for the guy.

Dread-Head
12-01-2009, 10:52 AM
Holmgren does nothing for me. Since the glory days at Green Bay, what has he done...other than stand on the sideline and get red-faced mad and stare hatefully at his own players. He's a Denny's menu guy, too, IMO.

Gruden does even less for me. Talk about being in the right place at the right time. That's Gruden, IMO. Tom Coughlin (and I know he's not available) does more for me than Gruden, and I'm not a big fan of Coughlin's coaching. So that tells you how much I think of Gruden.

I would be happier with Cowher, and to a lesser extent I would be OK with Mike Shanahan (though his rapid decline in Denver makes me nervous about his ability to be connected to today's NFL level/standard of play).

Folks, we need a coach who can wade through all the junk and make this team hold itself to a higher standard.

One of the reasons I like Mike Shanahan is because he knows the Denver system already, and so there wouuld be less drastic change and PERHAPS a better chance at staying competitive in the first season of rebuilding.

To me, Mike Shanahan and Bill Cowher are the best available in terms of who could likely take what we have and make it better.


Kubiack is a STUDENT of Shanahan...don't know how much running the same system and expecting different results will help.

GP
12-01-2009, 11:08 AM
Kubiack is a STUDENT of Shanahan...don't know how much running the same system and expecting different results will help.

I think a lot of people on here have stated their opinion that Kubiak is great at focusing on the offensive play-calling and not-so-good at being a head coach.

When things get rough, people always gravitate to what's easy (or "known") to them. They find what's comfortable. Kubiak, IMO, is now delving deeper into trying to call the plays because his overall leadership as a head coach is severely lacking. he doesn't know HOW to stop the bleeding, except via what he knows: Calling plays, and trying to call every play perfectly.

This results in the whole team getting depressed. Depressed because he gives authority to people, then takes it way from them. Because Kubiak is exhibiting dimentia out there. And the troops sense it, and they act accordingly.

Mike Shanahan is a better head coach than Kubiak right now. He has been up and down the hill. He's had a year off. He's away from Denver and what had to be just a very stale and routine environment for him. He could be working with his son, which might give him an extra boost of energy and zeal for the game again.

But I want to be clear that I have Mike Shanahan far down the list after Cowher, who is at the top. Heck, Mike not even allow himself to be considered for the Texans position due to the relationship with Kubiak. There's not telling what Kubiak has told him (about how things are ran by upper management, etc.).

Second Honeymoon
12-01-2009, 11:19 AM
Sure...if we can remove Vince Young's genitalia from his mouth he might make a GREAT coach again. No wait. That one title he got in Tampa Bay was on a team BUILT by Tony Dungee. Sorry No dice, let Chucky stick to being a biased color commentary guy. He seems to be good at it.

Gruden built Oakland into a Super Bowl contender. Once he left Oakland, Oakland stunk. Advantage: Gruden. Dungy didn't win squat in Tampa and was fired. Gruden won his first shot with the Bucs. Advantage: Gruden. He also had some of the best coaching jobs in the NFL in years to follow. His problem was not being able to find a QB because they never sucked bad enough to get an early enough pick. You can only do so much with the Chris Simms and Brian Griese's of the world. The one year he had a decent QB (Jeff Garcia) they were looking like Super Bowl contenders until Jeff got hurt.

People have this disdain for Gruden and discounting his ability. Ask the real players on Tampa what they think about him. Ask Hall Of Famers like Sapp and Derrick Brooks and Barber what they think of the guy. Also look at what has happened to the Bucs since he left. They went from playoff contender to total scrub team.

But whatever, hate on Gruden and say a bunch of unsubstantiated hyperbole...par for the course.

Mr. White
12-01-2009, 11:22 AM
I think a lot of people on here have stated their opinion that Kubiak is great at focusing on the offensive play-calling

I'm not even so sure about that. No one really knows how much influence he had over the play-calling at Denver.

I'm guessing not much. Mike Shanahan has a rep for being a notorious micro-manager.

Judging from the results on the field, I don't think Kubiak is much of a play-caller either. His first half script is great, but he has no idea how to overcome defensive adjustments.

mussop
12-01-2009, 02:36 PM
Gruden built Oakland into a Super Bowl contender. Once he left Oakland, Oakland stunk. Advantage: Gruden. Dungy didn't win squat in Tampa and was fired. Gruden won his first shot with the Bucs. Advantage: Gruden. He also had some of the best coaching jobs in the NFL in years to follow. His problem was not being able to find a QB because they never sucked bad enough to get an early enough pick. You can only do so much with the Chris Simms and Brian Griese's of the world. The one year he had a decent QB (Jeff Garcia) they were looking like Super Bowl contenders until Jeff got hurt.

People have this disdain for Gruden and discounting his ability. Ask the real players on Tampa what they think about him. Ask Hall Of Famers like Sapp and Derrick Brooks and Barber what they think of the guy. Also look at what has happened to the Bucs since he left. They went from playoff contender to total scrub team.

But whatever, hate on Gruden and say a bunch of unsubstantiated hyperbole...par for the course.

Im too tired but will someone please tear this to shreds? It shouldnt be hard. Gruden? What a joke!

HTown2ATX
12-01-2009, 03:02 PM
Sure...if we can remove Vince Young's genitalia from his mouth he might make a GREAT coach again. No wait. That one title he got in Tampa Bay was on a team BUILT by Tony Dungee. Sorry No dice, let Chucky stick to being a biased color commentary guy. He seems to be good at it.

:lol:

:spit:

I prefer Cowher, Holmgren, Chucky in that order of availability.

Thorn
12-01-2009, 04:18 PM
I don't like Gruden. Most especially as an announcer on Monday night football.

Pantherstang84
12-01-2009, 04:48 PM
:lol:

:spit:

I prefer Cowher, Holmgren, Chucky in that order of availability.

I'll take Chucky. He wins and runs a similar offense to what is in place.

nero THE zero
12-02-2009, 01:12 PM
FWIW, Pittsburgh's DC's were:

Dom Capers ('92 - '94)
Dick LeBeau ('95 - '96)
Jim Haslett ('97 - '99)
Tim Lewis ('00-'03)
Dick LeBeau ('04 - Present)

Capers is currently DC in GB and obviously wouldn't likely be an option here. Lewis was fired by Cowher, has supposedly converted to a soft scheme, is immensely disliked by his former players, and is coaching DBs in Seattle. Haslett is coaching in the UFL and might be a good candidate to bring back to a coordinator position in the NFL.

BigBull17
12-02-2009, 01:27 PM
Im too tired but will someone please tear this to shreds? It shouldnt be hard. Gruden? What a joke!

Whats there to really tear apart? Gruden did make Oakland relevent and won in Tampa. He wins. He isn't an awful canidate.

Porky
12-02-2009, 01:35 PM
Out of the "proven" former NFL HC's on the market, my order is (off the top of my head)

Cowher
Gruden
Holmgren

Others need not apply and a big no to Shanny Sr. If I don't get one of the 3 above, I look for an assistant on the rise. Last on the list would be a college HC.

BigBull17
12-02-2009, 01:49 PM
Out of the "proven" former NFL HC's on the market, my order is (off the top of my head)

Cowher
Gruden
Holmgren

Others need not apply and a big no to Shanny Sr. If I don't get one of the 3 above, I look for an assistant on the rise. Last on the list would be a college HC.

What do people think of Greg Willaims?

JB
12-02-2009, 01:52 PM
What do people think of Greg Willaims?

Very good DC...
sucked as HC

BigBull17
12-02-2009, 02:04 PM
Very good DC...
sucked as HC

The way he turned the Saint's D around, wish we had actually interviewed him...

WWJD
12-02-2009, 03:23 PM
One thing about hiring Cowher is the Texans would immediately acquire a personality..an identity.

For a team that appears to need that he would be a great hire just based on the impact he would bring to the team from an NFL perspective.

People would want to see them on TV...the national media would be interested...

HJam72
12-02-2009, 03:27 PM
One thing about hiring Cowher is the Texans would immediately acquire a personality..an identity.

For a team that appears to need that he would be a great hire just based on the impact he would bring to the team from an NFL perspective.

People would want to see them on TV...the national media would be interested...

....we'd get more attention when we bungle a lead to the Colts or Titans. :jk:

TexCanada
12-02-2009, 04:18 PM
....we'd get more attention when we bungle a lead to the Colts or Titans. :jk:

Very true since the national media has a huge boner for Peyton and VY.

treduke
12-02-2009, 04:42 PM
anybody willing to take a flyer on leslie frazier? my thinking is he has been in the league for awhile,could really help develop our young secondary,he would be a heck of alot cheaper than cowher or gruden!

Brisco_County
12-04-2009, 03:54 PM
I personally don't think holmgren or cowher should be given total control and despite holmgren's perceived failures, he did draft some pretty good players while in charge. Not to mention, he turned around 2 pathetic franchises while in charge. Holmgren would be better suited to me because the offense and defense are kinda in place now. He does prefer bigger interior lineman and run more power zone and g power stuff, but the language is pretty similar. Cowher would turn that defense of front 7 upside down. The only guys that fit the 3-4 are williams and cushing. I guess since smith played in the hybrid last yr in arizona, you could say him, but i'm not so sure. I'm not saying its a bad thing, but ryans,and every other lb is gone also.

I think they should stay the course unless they go into the tank. I never said cowher wasnt a great coach, i just wonder how much of it was the steelers organization vs cowher himself. At least holmgren has shown he can win in 2 different places.

What about Barwin as a 3-4 OLB? And why wouldn't DeMeco work as a 3-4 ILB?

The Third Man
12-04-2009, 08:56 PM
I don't think NFL teams win with the type of people-handling mentality that Bob McNair has displayed.



This team, IMO, plays like its owner. It's soft, clean, and likes to be nice to others.



Sorry to pick this thread up days later, but, Jesus, McNair's a f-ing billionaire. His daddy didn't give him the money. He didn't win the lottery. By any measure of success, he's doing something right. With all due respect, you act like you have some sort of great insight into how things are done in the NFL when you are just another guy whining on the internet and farting into a couch on Sundays.

Your premise is flat wrong, by the way. The Rooney's in Pittsburgh treat people the right way ("they are nice to others") and value stability. They have won five rings that way. The San Francisco 49'ers and New York Giants have been classy organizations and have a whole heap of titles. By your logic, Daniel Snyder should be the king of the NFL.

Brisco_County
12-04-2009, 10:31 PM
Sorry to pick this thread up days later, but, Jesus, McNair's a f-ing billionaire. His daddy didn't give him the money. He didn't win the lottery. By any measure of success, he's doing something right. With all due respect, you act like you have some sort of great insight into how things are done in the NFL when you are just another guy whining on the internet and farting into a couch on Sundays.

That was refreshing to read.

awtysst
12-04-2009, 10:41 PM
What about Barwin as a 3-4 OLB? And why wouldn't DeMeco work as a 3-4 ILB?

I have written two separate threads in which I showed that we are not from from converting to a 3-4 if we wanted to. We should not eliminate a possible head coach just because he favors a different defensive or offensive scheme. Thats what bad franchises do...

Jackie Chiles
12-05-2009, 02:43 PM
anybody willing to take a flyer on leslie frazier? my thinking is he has been in the league for awhile,could really help develop our young secondary,he would be a heck of alot cheaper than cowher or gruden!

If we don't go after Cowher and we still wind up changing coaches that is probably the guy I want. I've mentioned somewhere on here before but his son goes to Rice and plays football so we got that going for us.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=schefter_adam&id=4704338

"Vikings defensive coordinator Leslie Frazier: Had Denver not hired Josh McDaniels as its head coach, Frazier probably would have been its next choice. He is a mix of the men he has worked for, Mike Ditka and Tony Dungy, not to mention the man who succeeded Mike Tomlin as the Vikings' defensive coordinator."

DerekLee1
12-06-2009, 04:11 PM
I think Bob McNair needs to go up to Andre Johnson and ask, "Mr. Johnson, who do YOU want to be your head coach?" AJ isn't going to go all Kobe Bryant on us and demand a particular coach, but I think he should be asked.

Blake
12-06-2009, 04:13 PM
I am not sure what the problem with this team is. But the HC is gonna take the blame. And should.

Kubiak should be fired, and McNair should open his pocket book up and get a proven winner if he can.

awtysst
12-06-2009, 04:38 PM
I think Bob McNair needs to go up to Andre Johnson and ask, "Mr. Johnson, who do YOU want to be your head coach?" AJ isn't going to go all Kobe Bryant on us and demand a particular coach, but I think he should be asked.

Maybe ask AJ, OD, Demeco, and Mario. Get our 2 O and 2 Def studs in on the convo. I would include Cush, but he is a rook.

Txn_in_FL
12-06-2009, 06:16 PM
The way ESPiN is talking, Carolina is getting set up to shoot the moon for Cowher. The VP or GM or someone up top is from the same college that Cowher's daughter is going to and they go on and on about how it's such a great fit. Have even said that "sources" are saying Cowher is working on his staff already.

:(

Thorn
12-06-2009, 06:22 PM
I never really thought Cowher was coming here anyway, and still don't despite what EShitPN says about Carolina or us.

I guess I just don't like ESPN's announcers or their analysts. I always watch the talking heads on NFLN instead.

TexCanada
12-07-2009, 02:09 PM
Maybe Frank Bush will be our best option with some of these other coaches seemingly committed to other teams already.

Texecutioner
12-07-2009, 02:12 PM
Maybe Frank Bush will be our best option with some of these other coaches seemingly committed to other teams already.

Are you serious? Frank Bush wasn't even an experienced DC and has done a decent job from turning around a defense that looked awful early on in the season, but it's not like he's changed this entire defense. The last thing this regime needs is any of the same. Even Mcnair wouldn't be dumb enough to do that. No way, Bush would get the HC gig here.

TexCanada
12-07-2009, 02:16 PM
Are you serious? Frank Bush wasn't even an experienced DC and has done a decent job from turning around a defense that looked awful early on in the season, but it's not like he's changed this entire defense. The last thing this regime needs is any of the same. Even Mcnair wouldn't be dumb enough to do that. No way, Bush would get the HC gig here.

I think I did a poor job of wording what I meant. I don't mean that I want to see that happen, but if Cowher is going to Carolina and Holmgren is going to Seattle and taking Gruden as his coach (I don't know if there is any truth to that rumour), then I think McNair might see Bush as one of his top few choices.

texanskan
12-07-2009, 04:16 PM
I am making one, I'm so sick this crap. I'm not saying Cowher is going to be the next coach but Kubiaggy is gone.

NO first time coaches I want a proven winner who will command respect from these players.

All of the stupid mistakes are on those coaches as much as the players.

So any sign ideas?

nero THE zero
12-07-2009, 04:18 PM
Bad fellowship.

JWarren14
12-07-2009, 04:19 PM
If we really wanted to make a splash we could gather donations and buy a billboard like some of the Raiders and Bills fans have done this year.

I work in Advertising so I could find a cheap board. And I am sure that someone could design one pretty quickly.

Might be going to far, but it could be interesting.

mussop
12-07-2009, 04:21 PM
I am making one, I'm so sick this crap. I'm not saying Cowher is going to be the next coach but Kubiaggy is gone.

NO first time coaches I want a proven winner who will command respect from these players.

All of the stupid mistakes are on those coaches as much as the players.

So any sign ideas?

HORRIBLE THREAD TITLE! First thing that crossed my mind is that Cowher signed on as head coach somewhere else.

texanskan
12-07-2009, 04:21 PM
If we really wanted to make a splash we could gather donations and buy a billboard like some of the Raiders and Bills fans have done this year.

I work in Advertising so I could find a cheap board. And I am sure that someone could design one pretty quickly.

Might be going to far, but it could be interesting.

I'll donate

I am sure if most of the posters who check this board on a daily basis would be willing it would be cheap

We can also post on clutchfans and the HT boards

texanskan
12-07-2009, 04:23 PM
HORRIBLE THREAD TITLE! First thing that crossed my mind is that Cowher signed on as head coach somewhere else.

lol, yeah did not catch that

JWarren14
12-07-2009, 04:28 PM
If we are serious I can see what boards are available in the area around Reliant, maybe not even Cowher related just a general message to Mr. McNair and the rest of the organization.

JWarren14
12-07-2009, 04:34 PM
Bills Board Article (http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-bills-fanbillboard&prov=ap&type=lgns)
Raiders Board:
http://messagetoal.com/images/img_billboard_photo.jpg

Texecutioner
12-07-2009, 04:49 PM
If we are serious I can see what boards are available in the area around Reliant, maybe not even Cowher related just a general message to Mr. McNair and the rest of the organization.

It wouldn't hurt to try. I'd have no problem if it had something involving Cowher either. If Cowher saw that, he might be more inclined to wanting to come here and Mcnair might be more willing to try and get him here. You never know.

dalemurphy
12-07-2009, 07:19 PM
What about Jim Harbaugh? We could keep Rick Smith and Frank Bush, probably. thoughts?

Mr. White
12-07-2009, 10:23 PM
What about Jim Harbaugh? We could keep Rick Smith and Frank Bush, probably. thoughts?

I like Harbaugh.

Lucky
12-07-2009, 11:04 PM
The way ESPiN is talking, Carolina is getting set up to shoot the moon for Cowher.
That very well could be true. Cowher has been rumored to Carolina since he resigned in Pittsburgh. Cowher to the Panthers makes a lot of sense.

LA getting the 32nd NFL franchise made a lot of sense in 1999. The NFL owners yearned to get back into LA. There were multiple ownership groups competing for the opportunity to give the NFL hundreds of $millions. Actually, the NFL did award the expansion franchise to LA. They just didn't identify an ownership group.

That didn't stop Bob McNair. Against all odds, McNair never wavered in his quest to bring the NFL back to H-town. Whenever LA showed a weakness, Bob was always in the NFL's collective ear, offering a bigger, better deal. McNair played to win. And win he did, when he offered everything the NFL could hope for.

We need the Bob McNair of 10 years past to step up. It's time to play to win. And that means acquiring the best coaching talent that has been on the market in years. This is a golden opportunity to change the culture and mindset of this organization.

Mr. McNair, sign Bill Cowher as the next Houston Texans head coach. It's time to win.

mussop
12-08-2009, 12:22 AM
That very well could be true. Cowher has been rumored to Carolina since he resigned in Pittsburgh. Cowher to the Panthers makes a lot of sense.

LA getting the 32nd NFL franchise made a lot of sense in 1999. The NFL owners yearned to get back into LA. There were multiple ownership groups competing for the opportunity to give the NFL hundreds of $millions. Actually, the NFL did award the expansion franchise to LA. They just didn't identify an ownership group.

That didn't stop Bob McNair. Against all odds, McNair never wavered in his quest to bring the NFL back to H-town. Whenever LA showed a weakness, Bob was always in the NFL's collective ear, offering a bigger, better deal. McNair played to win. And win he did, when he offered everything the NFL could hope for.

We need the Bob McNair of 10 years past to step up. It's time to play to win. And that means acquiring the best coaching talent that has been on the market in years. This is a golden opportunity to change the culture and mindset of this organization.

Mr. McNair, sign Bill Cowher as the next Houston Texans head coach. It's time to win.

Thanks for making me think there is hope again Lucky.

LonerATO
12-08-2009, 05:01 AM
That very well could be true. Cowher has been rumored to Carolina since he resigned in Pittsburgh. Cowher to the Panthers makes a lot of sense.

LA getting the 32nd NFL franchise made a lot of sense in 1999. The NFL owners yearned to get back into LA. There were multiple ownership groups competing for the opportunity to give the NFL hundreds of $millions. Actually, the NFL did award the expansion franchise to LA. They just didn't identify an ownership group.

That didn't stop Bob McNair. Against all odds, McNair never wavered in his quest to bring the NFL back to H-town. Whenever LA showed a weakness, Bob was always in the NFL's collective ear, offering a bigger, better deal. McNair played to win. And win he did, when he offered everything the NFL could hope for.

We need the Bob McNair of 10 years past to step up. It's time to play to win. And that means acquiring the best coaching talent that has been on the market in years. This is a golden opportunity to change the culture and mindset of this organization.

Mr. McNair, sign Bill Cowher as the next Houston Texans head coach. It's time to win.

Cowher is not coming here and its not about the money for him. Cowher is naming dropping certain teams so it forces Jerry Richardson to fire John Fox at the end of the season or risk losing Cowher. Cowher is asking 10 million a year and no coach is worth that, hell Dungy and the Hoodie dont even make that kind of money and they are better coaches then Cowher.

Mike Kerns
12-08-2009, 07:42 AM
http://twitter.com/LanceZierlein

A little birdie says tells me bob mcnair not too interested in cowher and that massive contract that he will be asking for.


Take it for what its worth...

Mr. White
12-08-2009, 08:13 AM
http://twitter.com/LanceZierlein

A little birdie says tells me bob mcnair not too interested in cowher and that massive contract that he will be asking for.

Take it for what its worth...

From the radio show...no link.....

That same little birdie also told him that we could expect Kubiak to stay even if he only wins 2 more games and goes 7-9. McNair thinks that the losses are really on the players.

He also said that McNair is one of the owners that wants to get player compensation under control. Couple that with his aversion to pay a big name coach....

Are we really sure that McNair isn't cheap?

drewmar74
12-08-2009, 09:30 AM
That same little birdie also told him that we could expect Kubiak to stay even if he only wins 2 more games and goes 7-9. McNair thinks that the losses are really on the players.

Oh man.

That makes my stomach turn.

GuerillaBlack
12-08-2009, 10:50 AM
I'm starting to really despise Bob McNair. Thanks for bringing a team to Houston, but you're a crappy owner if you would keep this coach again. Seriously. We don't even have to get Cowher, but we need a new direction.