PDA

View Full Version : After further review...


DerekLee1
09-14-2009, 01:08 PM
I've now seen the game live, and watched the DVR replay, and here are my comments on what I saw. Would love to hear other comments after many of you others have also had a chance to watch the tape.

1. Our secondary is awful, awful, awful. The safeties in particular, but our cornerbacks made mistake after mistake after mistake. They're never around the ball, and they can't tackle when the ball runs to THEM. Dunta Robinson flew all over the field, but he flew PAST plays and was on the ground when anything that mattered happened. An unacceptable performance from someone who wants Rick to pay him.

2. Steve Slaton may be a talented player, but he still doesn't seem to have learned the ZBS. He still follows blockers rather than splits the blockers. He dances around instead of making his one cut. He's great on screens and sweeps, though. Maybe Dominique Barber could switch to RB. He made a nice one-cut on his fumble recovery run.

3. Chris Brown is still a very good running back. Personally, I think HE should start and Slaton should be the 3rd down back unless Brown gets hurt and forces Slaton back into the starting role.

4. Shanahan and the offense need to figure out new ways to get Andre Johnson involved. Without Kevin Walter, AJ is the only receiver that can make plays. OD has reliable hands, but if you're having to rely on your tight end to carry your offense, then you're not going to rack up many yards.

5. Kubiak HAS to figure out ways to protect his quarterbacks, especially early on. Teams are blitzing early and often, and yet he insists on sticking to "the plan". Screen plays and short passes - especially slants over the middle, which I don't think are included in our arsenal - keep blitzing defenses honest. Yet the offensive plan still seems to always be run up the gut and then try a 15+ yard pass play. Repeat until you score or punt.

6. DeMeco Ryans is a stellar middle linebacker. Brian Cushing had a very good first game. Mario Williams is an absolute beast. Our front 4 did their jobs. Everyone else on the defense needs to learn how to tackle.

7. Kyle Shanahan forgot that we had Owen Daniels and Andre Johnson on our team.

8. Kubiak needs to allow his quarterbacks more flexibility. Allow them to read defenses and audible in reaction. I don't think I've ever seen a Texans quarterback make an audible in the Kubiak era. If they can't hear the play in the headset, they call timeouts. This IS a West Coast style offense, after all. Call a double slant or a crossing route when you see the blitz coming. Same with the receivers. When a play gets busted or covered well, nobody seems to be able to improvise and make something happen. Instead, the quarterback gets sacked. Don't these guys work on this in practice?

9. Frank Bush promised to get aggressive, but he got almost no pressure on Sanchez up the middle. At the game, it felt like they never even got close to him. Watching the replay, we actually got a LOT of pressure on him, but all of that pressure came from the outside. Flushing a mobile quarterback out of the pocket makes them dangerous. This strategy may work against, say Collins or Favre, but not against strong mobile guys like Flacco or McNabb. Or Sanchez. Our defense is good for two downs, and terrible on third downs.

10. The Jets defense is good. Very good.

Goldensilence
09-14-2009, 01:18 PM
Agree on a lot of the points.

4,7, and 8 stuck out though.

We were totally uncreative in trying to find way to get our best play (AJ) the ball.

We were toally unpreapred or didn't seem to know how the handle blitz packages. Which is sad considering we've had all off-season to figure that out at least to an acceptable point.

Was disheartening to see to a rookie out there making hot reads on our team's blitzes and our QB unable to do so. Can't figure out for the life of me as well when you've got big bodies on the defensive front and you have a smaller atheltic line, go the the no huddle and make them big boys run. Again this staff still seems unable to make in game adjustments.

Vinny
09-14-2009, 01:23 PM
Two things really stuck out to me. One blitz that Ryan used over and over was that blitz where Jenkins backed up like a Mike backer, and the buc and mac linebackers shot in and took on the Guards while Jenkins sprinted up behind them like a run away freight train. That blitz was designed to get Jenkins one on one with Myers or whomever didn't absorb the inside linebackers. You usually see teams run something like that once or twice and then the team they are using it against finds a way to stop it. The Texans never seemed to figure out how to stop it, and the Jets kept using it over and over. This blitz and a few other blitz packages pretty much told me that the Texans were thoroughly out coached yesterday.

The other thing that really, really stuck out to me was the fact that if you are going to blitz like crazy, you better have superior S play. We may have the worst tandem of starting S's in the NFL and there were times when a more experienced QB would have pressed downfield a bit more. I can see us giving up even more big plays going forward if we stay with our "more aggressive" blitz packages since we really don't have quality S play to clean up. One reason we didn't stop the Jets on 3rd down was the fact that we had to send an extra man, but when we did this, we not only didn't get to Sanchez then we couldn't cover well with the extra man blitzing. I like a more aggressive defense but if you don't get good S play then we better be prepared to give up tons of 3rd down conversions and many more long plays this season.

DerekLee1
09-14-2009, 01:24 PM
Oh, and also on Schaub. I don't put this on his head at all. At the game, I thought he just looked "off". On watching the replay, he was just pummeled all day long, with pressure in his face on practically every single play. He had no TIME to get the ball anywhere. On most run plays, the Jets defense damn near could have taken the handoffs.

By the way, I FINALLY saw the kind of defense I wanted to see in Reliant Stadium. Only it was from the guys in green. Frank Bush, go to school. If you're going to promise pressure, bring the pressure like the Jets did. You could learn a lot from Buddy and Rex Ryan. Best pressure defenses in the history of the NFL.

Vinny
09-14-2009, 01:26 PM
Oh, and also on Schaub. I don't put this on his head at all. At the game, I thought he just looked "off". On watching the replay, he was just pummeled all day long, with pressure in his face on practically every single play. He had no TIME to get the ball anywhere. On most run plays, the Jets defense damn near could have taken the handoffs.

By the way, I FINALLY saw the kind of defense I wanted to see in Reliant Stadium. Only it was from the guys in green. Frank Bush, go to school. If you're going to promise pressure, bring the pressure like the Jets did. You could learn a lot from Buddy and Rex Ryan. Best pressure defenses in the history of the NFL.see my post above. Schaub was "off" because the Texans weren't prepared to handle what was thrown at them. Since Schaub got hurt by sideline chalk in the preseason he wasn't real mobile and the Texans never found a way to double Jenkins with Ryans blitz wrinkle designed to get him one on one with Meyers. I never saw an adjustment that forced them to stop doing this.

Yankee_In_TX
09-14-2009, 01:28 PM
I've
5. Kubiak HAS to figure out ways to protect his quarterbacks, especially early on. Teams are blitzing early and often, and yet he insists on sticking to "the plan". Screen plays and short passes - especially slants over the middle, which I don't think are included in our arsenal - keep blitzing defenses honest. Yet the offensive plan still seems to always be run up the gut and then try a 15+ yard pass play. Repeat until you score or punt.


QFT. "Running to set up the pass" is the most made up concept EVER. What worked last year? Over the middle to OD, opening up Slaton to the run and AJ to the long bomb.

WTF are we back to run, run, run (-3 net) then throw?

DerekLee1
09-14-2009, 01:29 PM
The other thing that really, really stuck out to me was the fact that if you are going to blitz like crazy, you better have superior S play. We may have the worst tandem of starting S's in the NFL and there were times when a more experienced QB would have pressed downfield a bit more. I can see us giving up even more big plays going forward if we stay with our "more aggressive" blitz packages since we really don't have quality S play to clean up. One reason we didn't stop the Jets on 3rd down was the fact that we had to send an extra man, but when we did this, we not only didn't get to Sanchez then we couldn't cover well with the extra man blitzing. I like a more aggressive defense but if you don't get good S play then we better be prepared to give up tons of 3rd down conversions and many more long plays this season.

This sounds SO much like Richard Smith's philosophies. Many of us fans have been saying for 8 seasons now how desperately we need a good safety. Good pressure on a QB, though, especially from the middle, can make even a weak secondary look very, very good.

DerekLee1
09-14-2009, 01:34 PM
WTF are we back to run, run, run (-3 net) then throw?

It's like the Capers years all over again, eh Yankee? Run, run, run. Pass when 3rd and 10 or more.

Cjeremy635
09-14-2009, 01:36 PM
see my post above. Schaub was "off" because the Texans weren't prepared to handle what was thrown at them. Since Schaub got hurt by sideline chalk in the preseason he wasn't real mobile and the Texans never found a way to double Jenkins with Ryans blitz wrinkle designed to get him one on one with Meyers. I never saw an adjustment that forced them to stop doing this.

I never saw an adjustment period! Hell, I never do. IIRC, that was one of the faults of the other regime as well. Other teams make sideline adjustments, or at halftime if nothing else.....us, not so much. Our coaching staff seems to not have answers for a lot of stuff.

Goldensilence
09-14-2009, 01:38 PM
This sounds SO much like Richard Smith's philosophies. Many of us fans have been saying for 8 seasons now how desperately we need a good safety. Good pressure on a QB, though, especially from the middle, can make even a weak secondary look very, very good.

Disagree completely. I think pressure up the middle can help a secondary look better, but it's not going to make them look good.

I think a good secondary however, can give the front seven time to get to the CB which makes them look better. That extra second in coverage could mean the difference between a completion and a sack.

Overall the current staff has gotten this team to the point where they look like for the most part an NFL team with promising talent. However, their inability to utilize it or fill holes quickly is sinking the team as a whole.

I'm at a crossroads right now. Part of me hopes this team limps through the season so maybe we can get a new coach. Though and Herv points out I'm not suer so McNair will go for a proven guy, and we might see the same thing. The other part of me wants to just win badly, but again that means this staff sticks around. Damned if you do and damned if you don't.

nunusguy
09-14-2009, 01:41 PM
By the way, I FINALLY saw the kind of defense I wanted to see in Reliant Stadium. Only it was from the guys in green. Frank Bush, go to school. If you're going to promise pressure, bring the pressure like the Jets did. You could learn a lot from Buddy and Rex Ryan. Best pressure defenses in the history of the NFL.
I honestly don't think you can get that same kind of pressure from a 4-3 ?
I can't recall seeing a 4-3 generate the kind of pressure I've seen from the Steelers defense, or the Ravens, and yesterdays Jets 3-4 ?
BTW, if you saw the game last night Capers had the GB D all over Cutler. I dunno, why didn't our 3-4 look like that when Capers was here ?

Vinny
09-14-2009, 01:44 PM
I honestly don't think you can get that same kind of pressure from a 4-3 ?

The Buddy Ryan Bears and the Steel Curtain would like to argue that point. There have been tons of dominant 4-3 defenses in the NFL...probably many more than 3-4 teams.

Goldensilence
09-14-2009, 01:48 PM
I honestly don't think you can get that same kind of pressure from a 4-3 ?
I can't recall seeing a 4-3 generate the kind of pressure I've seen from the Steelers defense, or the Ravens, and yesterdays Jets 3-4 ?
BTW, if you saw the game last night Capers had the GB D all over Cutler. I dunno, why didn't our 3-4 look like that when Capers was here ?

Must've never seen a Giants or Eagles game. Even the Bears and Bucs a few years ago. Titans have a stout 4-3 as well (god it hurts saying that).

Said it last night Packers had a decent 4-3 before switching. What's key is they had a solid LBing corps to start with and a guy that was capable of playing NT, also got the gift of the draft's best NT in Raji.

Capers has been good at working with what he's got, long as he wasn't selecting talent for it.

badboy
09-14-2009, 01:50 PM
1st round: best free safety
2nd round: best Defensive tackle
3rd round: best power back. No we ain't waiting for later round.
4th round: best corner back.
5th round: best offensive guard.
6th round: trade for a stronger, bigger center just in case Caldwell ain't the guy.
7th round: another linebacker to start

Free agency: Do NOT sign a defensive tackle!

TexansSeminole
09-14-2009, 01:55 PM
Two things really stuck out to me. One blitz that Ryan used over and over was that blitz where Jenkins backed up like a Mike backer, and the buc and mac linebackers shot in and took on the Guards while Jenkins sprinted up behind them like a run away freight train. That blitz was designed to get Jenkins one on one with Myers or whomever didn't absorb the inside linebackers. You usually see teams run something like that once or twice and then the team they are using it against finds a way to stop it. The Texans never seemed to figure out how to stop it, and the Jets kept using it over and over. This blitz and a few other blitz packages pretty much told me that the Texans were thoroughly out coached yesterday.

The other thing that really, really stuck out to me was the fact that if you are going to blitz like crazy, you better have superior S play. We may have the worst tandem of starting S's in the NFL and there were times when a more experienced QB would have pressed downfield a bit more. I can see us giving up even more big plays going forward if we stay with our "more aggressive" blitz packages since we really don't have quality S play to clean up. One reason we didn't stop the Jets on 3rd down was the fact that we had to send an extra man, but when we did this, we not only didn't get to Sanchez then we couldn't cover well with the extra man blitzing. I like a more aggressive defense but if you don't get good S play then we better be prepared to give up tons of 3rd down conversions and many more long plays this season.

And our safety play has always been a problem. Why we don't go after one I have no idea. We have had years to do it.

HOU-TEX
09-14-2009, 01:56 PM
This is kind of random and off-topic, but did anyone notice if Casey was even active?

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 01:58 PM
Two things really stuck out to me. One blitz that Ryan used over and over was that blitz where Jenkins backed up like a Mike backer, and the buc and mac linebackers shot in and took on the Guards while Jenkins sprinted up behind them like a run away freight train. That blitz was designed to get Jenkins one on one with Myers or whomever didn't absorb the inside linebackers. You usually see teams run something like that once or twice and then the team they are using it against finds a way to stop it. The Texans never seemed to figure out how to stop it, and the Jets kept using it over and over. This blitz and a few other blitz packages pretty much told me that the Texans were thoroughly out coached yesterday.

The other thing that really, really stuck out to me was the fact that if you are going to blitz like crazy, you better have superior S play. We may have the worst tandem of starting S's in the NFL and there were times when a more experienced QB would have pressed downfield a bit more. I can see us giving up even more big plays going forward if we stay with our "more aggressive" blitz packages since we really don't have quality S play to clean up. One reason we didn't stop the Jets on 3rd down was the fact that we had to send an extra man, but when we did this, we not only didn't get to Sanchez then we couldn't cover well with the extra man blitzing. I like a more aggressive defense but if you don't get good S play then we better be prepared to give up tons of 3rd down conversions and many more long plays this season.

They wouldn't win a relay race either . Barber ran a 4.7 out of college ( Cushing ran a 4.67 ) and while speed isn't everything , it will make up for mistakes .

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 02:02 PM
And our safety play has always been a problem. Why we don't go after one I have no idea. We have had years to do it.

I don't know being the Broncos had safety's like Dennis Smith and Steve Atwater .

Trivia time ... who were the other DB's who started in college with Smith and at what shool .

ATXtexanfan
09-14-2009, 02:02 PM
Nice to see a quality thread fellas. So much to fix with this team.

BSofA04
09-14-2009, 02:03 PM
This is kind of random and off-topic, but did anyone notice if Casey was even active?

He was on the kickoff return. At least that's when I noticed him. I'm sure he was on the other special teams.

HoustonFrog
09-14-2009, 02:09 PM
He was on the kickoff return. At least that's when I noticed him. I'm sure he was on the other special teams.

5 plays overall..all special teams

Spled
09-14-2009, 02:16 PM
The secondary looking clueless on third downs was the worst, but the second worse was our OL looking like kids playing against men. Maybe we need to put Sexy Rexy in if he's a better scrambler.

Stemp
09-14-2009, 02:20 PM
The center (Myers?) need to learn how to block. I can't count the number of times he was slapped the turf and basically let the NT have a free shot at Schaub.

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 02:22 PM
The center (Myers?) need to learn how to block. I can't count the number of times he was slapped the turf and basically let the NT have a free shot at Schaub.

Pitts too, Chester was tossed around by Jenkins a few times and he's our heaviest lineman.

Vinny
09-14-2009, 02:27 PM
The center (Myers?) need to learn how to block. I can't count the number of times he was slapped the turf and basically let the NT have a free shot at Schaub.

Pitts too, Chester was tossed around by Jenkins a few times and he's our heaviest lineman.
Jenkins demands a double team and most of the league knows it. What just blew my mind is that RRyan kept creating single team blocks by throwing exotic packages (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1249142&postcount=3) at the Texans and the Texans were not able to get a double on him....mainly because they weren't prepared for what they were looking at.

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 02:30 PM
Jenkins demands a double team and most of the league knows it. What just blew my mind is that RRyan kept creating single team blocks by throwing exotic packages (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1249142&postcount=3) at the Texans and the Texans were not able to get a double on him....mainly because they weren't prepared for what they were looking at.

You're not alone. I'm stunned at our lack of preparation. I could take losing that game if we looked competent in losing it. We looked like a Lions coached team yesterday.

Fox
09-14-2009, 02:36 PM
Jenkins demands a double team and most of the league knows it. What just blew my mind is that RRyan kept creating single team blocks by throwing exotic packages (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1249142&postcount=3) at the Texans and the Texans were not able to get a double on him....mainly because they weren't prepared for what they were looking at.

Exactly. This was the most frustrating thing for me because as I've mentioned in other threads I do think we have the talent to compete, I just thought RR thoroughly out game planned and confused our offense. It was obvious to me that he out-coached our offensive guru, and Kubiak and Shanahan Jr. were absolutely clueless in how to counter it. It's especially depressing considering they knew the defense and the problems it posed to us from our experience vs. the Ravens last year and weren't able to do anything with an entire off-season to counter it.

Oh and by the by I just want to add to the review that Fred Bennett is horrible. Horrible. He constantly bites fakes and double moves, and he is the weakest tackler I've seen since Buchanon. Seriously. Pretty obvious why he's spent so much time on the bench the last couple years. I'd much prefer he rode it again this year and let the rookies go through their growing pains now.

badboy
09-14-2009, 02:40 PM
Mark Vandermeer said this morning that one of the Jet coaches told Mark prior to the game that the Jets felt very sure that they would control this game in every aspect. Mark thought he was crazy but remembered the comment as the game progressed.

Vinny
09-14-2009, 02:41 PM
Mark Vandermeer said this morning that one of the Jet coaches told Mark prior to the game that the Jets felt very sure that they would control this game in every aspect. Mark thought he was crazy but remembered the comment as the game progressed.
Vandermeer sips so much Kool Aide, he really doesn't have an honest opinion. He's their Corporate spin guy.

badboy
09-14-2009, 02:48 PM
Vandermeer sips so much Kool Aide, he really doesn't have an honest opinion. He's their Corporate spin guy.Agreed but at least he gets paid to be hopeful. That's more than I get. I actually thought we would win in a close game.

TimeKiller
09-14-2009, 03:07 PM
I only watched at the game...I agree with everything you said but this is what I had a response to:

2. When blockers are split with defenders instead of having holes to run through then I'll start the Slaton criticisms. As for CBrown, maybe not starting but dude should definitely be getting a taste of the rock. 1/3 of the carries at least.

6. Agreed with everything except the line, they played awful defense from Mario to yes, Jeff "freaking" Zgonina.

8. Definitely. Schaub still hasn't had his brain beaten in so we may as well let him use it.

10. The Jets defense is good. Very good. Gods almost...

Kyle Shanahan needs to play some more Madden.

bckey
09-14-2009, 03:37 PM
Jenkins demands a double team and most of the league knows it. What just blew my mind is that RRyan kept creating single team blocks by throwing exotic packages (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1249142&postcount=3) at the Texans and the Texans were not able to get a double on him....mainly because they weren't prepared for what they were looking at.

Little Shanny

DerekLee1
09-14-2009, 05:24 PM
8. Kubiak needs to allow his quarterbacks more flexibility. Allow them to read defenses and audible in reaction. I don't think I've ever seen a Texans quarterback make an audible in the Kubiak era. If they can't hear the play in the headset, they call timeouts. This IS a West Coast style offense, after all. Call a double slant or a crossing route when you see the blitz coming. Same with the receivers. When a play gets busted or covered well, nobody seems to be able to improvise and make something happen. Instead, the quarterback gets sacked. Don't these guys work on this in practice?

Kubiak addressed exactly this point in the presser, and again on The Gary Kubiak Show. As I suspected, the quarterbacks are NOT allowed to freely change the play that is called. Instead, they have what he called "double plays" where if the original play isn't there, they go to the second option. The designed plays also allow for checkdowns. These are STANDARD though for ALL teams and virtually every play. I've coached flag leagues and designed plays that allow for options and checkdowns. But once that headset shuts off and the defense changes its look, the QB MUST be allowed to change things based on what he sees if it's obvious the called play will break down. I'd be insulted as a QB if my OC or HC didn't trust me to make adjustments.

Kubiak's justification for this, btw, was "we have confidence that we can execute what's called". That's just great. I've been a big Kubes supporter, but I'm starting to second-guess myself...

El Tejano
09-14-2009, 07:08 PM
Can't figure out for the life of me as well when you've got big bodies on the defensive front and you have a smaller atheltic line, go the the no huddle and make them big boys run.

That's what Buffalo just did to New England and Wilfork. They scored a TD on their first possession.

LonerATO
09-14-2009, 07:12 PM
That's what Buffalo just did to New England and Wilfork. They scored a TD on their first possession.

LOL was going to say the same thing and the fact that NE does a ton of blitzing

thunderkyss
09-14-2009, 07:41 PM
QFT. "Running to set up the pass" is the most made up concept EVER. What worked last year? Over the middle to OD, opening up Slaton to the run and AJ to the long bomb.

WTF are we back to run, run, run (-3 net) then throw?

The Jets play calling on both sides of the ball was what won the game. They had us off balance from the opening kick-off.

I heard Kubiak on the 610 post game show, and he said Cotton's ankle didn't negate any kind of bootleg or moving pockets. Kubiak said we didn't boot because we couldn't run.

But for some reason that didn't stop the Jets from run faking the heck out of us. Thomas Jones had 13 carries for 14 yards going into the 4th Qtr. Washington had pretty much the same. But every time they faked the run, Recievers were wide open down field.

The Jets played the run almost as well as we did, except Chris Brown was actually making headway on third downs. They were just as aggressive as we were, but we didn't try to fake them. When we showed run, we ran. When we didn't show run, we didn't run.

They were throwing screens to every other person on their offense, They put Leon Washington in the Wildcat (Minnesota also has a rookie in their Wildcat). They faked the toss to one side, then toss it to the other. They ran the end around.

We didn't.

& defensively.... they kept overloading with LBs again, and again, and again. Sending them up the middle, attacking the weakside... But for some reason, none of our guys were ever open enough for Schaub.. he didn't see many of them coming.. Matt Schaub didn't beat one blitz yesterday. You would think a franchise QB could beat a blitz every once & a while. At least I do.

Surely we have some mechanism to identify blitzers & hot routes. I know we can't audible, but surely we work on hot routes... I mean it's apparent that we don't, but surely we do..... right?

thunderkyss
09-14-2009, 07:49 PM
Kubiak's justification for this, btw, was "we have confidence that we can execute what's called". That's just great. I've been a big Kubes supporter, but I'm starting to second-guess myself...

I wish someone had the balls to ask him where in the heck is this confidence coming from.

DocBar
09-14-2009, 08:03 PM
Th big things I noticed were coaching, OL play, secondary and LB play. Enough has been said about coaching.
The interior OL is just flat out incapable of stopping big DT's. Pitts, Meyers and Brisiel were so overmatched, it was disgusting. On one play in the 2nd, Jenkins head swatted Pitts INTO Brown and took them both out of the play then went on to make Schaub throw the ball away. We can't win in this league with an OL like that.
The Lbs were horrible in coverage and missing tackles. Same goes for the secondary. Sorry for the post being cut short. Have to tend to my daughter.

thunderkyss
09-14-2009, 08:28 PM
On one play in the 2nd, Jenkins head swatted Pitts INTO Brown and took them both out of the play then went on to make Schaub throw the ball away.

I'm glad someone other than me said this.

Pitts is a fan favorite, and for the longest time he's been considered our best. Problem is, just like Dunta... our best wasn't very good.

It's time to move on from Pitts. Put Caldwell in there. He can't be any worse, and if we can get away with starting Brown as a rookie, we should be fine starting Caldwell.

I understand Myers isn't huge (like Saturday & Mawae), but IMHO, we need more of our OL playing Kubiak's way before we can replace him or Briesel.

Pitts isn't playing Kubiak ball anyway, go ahead and get him out of there. Then we'd have three guys who know how to block downfield. Replace Myers or Briesel, and you're still at two.

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 08:39 PM
The Jets play calling on both sides of the ball was what won the game. They had us off balance from the opening kick-off.

I heard Kubiak on the 610 post game show, and he said Cotton's ankle didn't negate any kind of bootleg or moving pockets. Kubiak said we didn't boot because we couldn't run.

But for some reason that didn't stop the Jets from run faking the heck out of us. Thomas Jones had 13 carries for 14 yards going into the 4th Qtr. Washington had pretty much the same. But every time they faked the run, Recievers were wide open down field.

The Jets played the run almost as well as we did, except Chris Brown was actually making headway on third downs. They were just as aggressive as we were, but we didn't try to fake them. When we showed run, we ran. When we didn't show run, we didn't run.

They were throwing screens to every other person on their offense, They put Leon Washington in the Wildcat (Minnesota also has a rookie in their Wildcat). They faked the toss to one side, then toss it to the other. They ran the end around.

We didn't.

& defensively.... they kept overloading with LBs again, and again, and again. Sending them up the middle, attacking the weakside... But for some reason, none of our guys were ever open enough for Schaub.. he didn't see many of them coming.. Matt Schaub didn't beat one blitz yesterday. You would think a franchise QB could beat a blitz every once & a while. At least I do.

Surely we have some mechanism to identify blitzers & hot routes. I know we can't audible, but surely we work on hot routes... I mean it's apparent that we don't, but surely we do..... right?

Early in the game , on 3rd and long , you just knew they weren't going to put Sanchez in a position to make a mistake . You knew they were going to play it safe and go for field position but they kept converting on screens and such . I think it surprised them to be honest .

TexanBacker93
09-14-2009, 10:10 PM
One area where I think this team gets hurt on both sides of the ball is pressure from the middle. The Jets did it very well and we couldn't. The Texans rely upon their edge rushers and Sanchez had the presence to step into the pocket and make throws. The more physical defenses push our weak interior line back giving Schaub nowhere to go.

jppaul
09-15-2009, 12:09 AM
1st round: best free safety
2nd round: best Defensive tackle
3rd round: best power back. No we ain't waiting for later round.
4th round: best corner back.
5th round: best offensive guard.
6th round: trade for a stronger, bigger center just in case Caldwell ain't the guy.
7th round: another linebacker to start

Free agency: Do NOT sign a defensive tackle!

I would sell out my first three picks to get Taylor Mays if we weren't (at this rate anyway) going to end up in the top 5 anyway.

New_Texans
09-15-2009, 01:42 AM
The Jets play calling on both sides of the ball was what won the game. They had us off balance from the opening kick-off.

I heard Kubiak on the 610 post game show, and he said Cotton's ankle didn't negate any kind of bootleg or moving pockets. Kubiak said we didn't boot because we couldn't run.

But for some reason that didn't stop the Jets from run faking the heck out of us. Thomas Jones had 13 carries for 14 yards going into the 4th Qtr. Washington had pretty much the same. But every time they faked the run, Recievers were wide open down field.

The Jets played the run almost as well as we did, except Chris Brown was actually making headway on third downs. They were just as aggressive as we were, but we didn't try to fake them. When we showed run, we ran. When we didn't show run, we didn't run.

They were throwing screens to every other person on their offense, They put Leon Washington in the Wildcat (Minnesota also has a rookie in their Wildcat). They faked the toss to one side, then toss it to the other. They ran the end around.

We didn't.

& defensively.... they kept overloading with LBs again, and again, and again. Sending them up the middle, attacking the weakside... But for some reason, none of our guys were ever open enough for Schaub.. he didn't see many of them coming.. Matt Schaub didn't beat one blitz yesterday. You would think a franchise QB could beat a blitz every once & a while. At least I do.

Surely we have some mechanism to identify blitzers & hot routes. I know we can't audible, but surely we work on hot routes... I mean it's apparent that we don't, but surely we do..... right?

He did, Slaton just happened to fumble the ball and there went that kind of play for the rest of the game. Kubiak and Kyle completely abandoned one of the things that was actually working for the offense in throwing to the backs...Leech had a good gain along with Slaton until the fumble.

Norg
09-15-2009, 02:03 AM
More passes to leech that seemed to work LOL

i also think we should of gave chris brown more touches

FR0497
09-15-2009, 02:06 AM
I've been thinking about point #5 since halftime Sunday. We were very predictable the whole game. Here's to hoping the coaches get their head out of their *** this coming Sunday.

And Kubiak needs to let Schaub audible and put long snap counts in to see where the blitz is coming from. These idiots are constantly putting in plays that are taking way too long to develop when the defense is blitzing more than we can block. And what's even more ridiculous is the coaches did this the WHOLE game.

Carr Bombed
09-15-2009, 02:47 AM
I've been thinking about point #5 since halftime Sunday. We were very predictable the whole game. Here's to hoping the coaches get their head out of their *** this coming Sunday.

And Kubiak needs to let Schaub audible and put long snap counts in to see where the blitz is coming from. These idiots are constantly putting in plays that are taking way too long to develop when the defense is blitzing more than we can block. And what's even more ridiculous is the coaches did this the WHOLE game.


Wrong...

The reason why the Jets were blitzing was because we never established a running game....it had nothing to do with the play call. If Houston can run the ball (If Slaton can lose 20 pounds) you'll see the passing game open up.

DerekLee1
09-15-2009, 07:13 AM
I would sell out my first three picks to get Taylor Mays if we weren't (at this rate anyway) going to end up in the top 5 anyway.

You could trade your first and 3rd to move up high enough to get him. Then try something fancy packaged with your 2nd to move back into the 1st and get a real ZBS running back.

DerekLee1
09-15-2009, 07:20 AM
One more thing that makes me question Kubiak. When we had the Jets at 4th and 2 with 23 seconds to go in the half, WHY would you not call a time out? That forces them to punt the ball. Instead, he lets the clock wind down, the Jets call time out with 2 seconds left, and know they can try a hail mary pass because time will have run out. You can't do that with 23 seconds because an incomplete pass allows the Texans to take over with good enough field position to take a couple of shots downfield, or to try to get into field goal range.

Kubes was asked about this on his afternoon show yesterday, and his response was, "I just didn't see a reason to call a timeout there". ??????????

TheCD
09-15-2009, 07:32 AM
I'm starting to come around to us eventually changing back to a 3-4 at some point (even though our previous efforts make me nervous to do so), but my main concern is...

How would Mario fit into and be used in a 3-4 defense? I'm not sure he would fit a typical 3-4 DE, and I don't know how he'd fit into a LB.

FR0497
09-15-2009, 10:12 AM
Wrong...

The reason why the Jets were blitzing was because we never established a running game....it had nothing to do with the play call. If Houston can run the ball (If Slaton can lose 20 pounds) you'll see the passing game open up.

I never blamed our play calling as to why the Jets were blitzing. I was simply stating that WHEN the Jets were blitzing over and over and over, we didn't run any quick passing routes or screens. The Jets also had no running game going at all but their passing game was open all day.

silvrhand
09-15-2009, 10:28 AM
Pitts too, Chester was tossed around by Jenkins a few times and he's our heaviest lineman.

Size matters but so does balance and footwork, no matter how big you are if you put yourself out of balance even the smaller defensive linemen can toss you like a rag doll. Most of these guys bench well over 400lbs, you just have to put yourself in a position to where you aren't overextending. When you overextend, all someone has to do is get up under your pads and push, the pads come up into your face, you can't see and the next thing you know you are getting pushed over. It's what happens.

Reggie white used to be the master at getting even some of the best OL out of position and using his right arm to throw them 3-4 yards and just run down the QB.

silvrhand
09-15-2009, 10:29 AM
I never blamed our play calling as to why the Jets were blitzing. I was simply stating that WHEN the Jets were blitzing over and over and over, we didn't run any quick passing routes or screens. The Jets also had no running game going at all but their passing game was open all day.

Instead of throwing the quick short routes, apparently we decided running screens like crazy was a great alternative, I'm guessing they knew ahead of time Schaub couldn't throw worth a crap after the sideline chalk ankle incident, and wanted to make it easier on him.

silvrhand
09-15-2009, 10:30 AM
One more thing that makes me question Kubiak. When we had the Jets at 4th and 2 with 23 seconds to go in the half, WHY would you not call a time out? That forces them to punt the ball. Instead, he lets the clock wind down, the Jets call time out with 2 seconds left, and know they can try a hail mary pass because time will have run out. You can't do that with 23 seconds because an incomplete pass allows the Texans to take over with good enough field position to take a couple of shots downfield, or to try to get into field goal range.

Kubes was asked about this on his afternoon show yesterday, and his response was, "I just didn't see a reason to call a timeout there". ??????????

If you remember right they had the ball with a little over 2 minutes to go in the half and were happy with just wrapping up the half and going in. We weren't even in 2 minute mode.. It was pretty bad.

leebigeztx
09-15-2009, 10:40 AM
I think what was disturbed me some was they brought good pressure, but they did close down the hot routes which is what the jets were doing. Sanchez never made it to his 2nd or even 3rd read. If they brought pressure, he was staring down washington or keller. If the staff was watching any preseason, they would know that sanchez wants to get out the pocket to his right. So if they bring pressure from his right and close up leon the safety valve, then they couldve done better.

Another thing is against a blitzing overaggressive defense, they ran 1 screen. I think a small athletic line like the texans should run 5 screen passes a game. It was obvious schaub was hurt. No rollout, no boots, no nothing. When you play against a guy like jenkins, you want to get him moving from side to side and get him tired. In fact, a no huddle wouldve been a good adjustment.

Vinny
09-15-2009, 10:40 AM
I'm glad someone other than me said this.

Pitts is a fan favorite, and for the longest time he's been considered our best. Problem is, just like Dunta... our best wasn't very good.

It's time to move on from Pitts. Put Caldwell in there. He can't be any worse, and if we can get away with starting Brown as a rookie, we should be fine starting Caldwell.

Pitts was a pro bowl alternate last year Einstein. If you had a clue to what you were talking about I'd give you more cred, but I can't. Guys get pushed around on a given snap here and there...even Jenkins. You are just going to lose some battles out there. All those guys are pros.

Credibility is hard to attain...but easy to lose.

HOU-TEX
09-15-2009, 10:43 AM
I think what was disturbed me some was they brought good pressure, but they did close down the hot routes which is what the jets were doing. Sanchez never made it to his 2nd or even 3rd read. If they brought pressure, he was staring down washington or keller. If the staff was watching any preseason, they would know that sanchez wants to get out the pocket to his right. So if they bring pressure from his right and close up leon the safety valve, then they couldve done better.

Another thing is against a blitzing overaggressive defense, they ran 1 screen. I think a small athletic line like the texans should run 5 screen passes a game. It was obvious schaub was hurt. No rollout, no boots, no nothing. When you play against a guy like jenkins, you want to get him moving from side to side and get him tired. In fact, a no huddle wouldve been a good adjustment.

Boots and rollouts work off play action. We weren't running the ball and when we did it was stuffed. Boots probably wouldn't have worked and Schaub would've been met in the backfield.

But, I think we should've tried it, at least.

Vinny
09-15-2009, 10:46 AM
Boots and rollouts work off play action. We weren't running the ball and when we did it was stuffed. Boots probably wouldn't have worked and Schaub would've been met in the backfield.

But, I think we should've tried it, at least.
he would have been destroyed with naked boots vs that defensive scheme....they were gap controlling and looking for it. What is mind boggling to me is that when you cover all the gaps and send extra men you have to take someone out of coverage. Supposedly Kubiak said that Andre had an extra man on him all day. My question is how come the Jets D controlled ALL the gaps, put an extra man on AJ and nobody else got open? The Jets weren't allowed to play 14 men. Scheme and playcalling, is the reason the team floundered. The team was totally outcoached Sunday.

gtexan02
09-15-2009, 10:50 AM
3 downlineman + 4 linebackers + at least one extra blitzer + 2 defensive backs on AJ = 2 remaining defenders for all our receivers.

dalemurphy
09-15-2009, 10:59 AM
I'm glad someone other than me said this.

Pitts is a fan favorite, and for the longest time he's been considered our best. Problem is, just like Dunta... our best wasn't very good.

It's time to move on from Pitts. Put Caldwell in there. He can't be any worse, and if we can get away with starting Brown as a rookie, we should be fine starting Caldwell.

I understand Myers isn't huge (like Saturday & Mawae), but IMHO, we need more of our OL playing Kubiak's way before we can replace him or Briesel.

Pitts isn't playing Kubiak ball anyway, go ahead and get him out of there. Then we'd have three guys who know how to block downfield. Replace Myers or Briesel, and you're still at two.


First of all, I agree that Pitts has extended periods of the season in the past where he seems inconsistent... and, I get frustrated too. However, as high as I am on Caldwell that would be a definite worse. Pitts is easily our strongest interior lineman. With the issues we are having up the middle, the last thing I would want to do is replace him.

HOU-TEX
09-15-2009, 11:17 AM
he would have been destroyed with naked boots vs that defensive scheme....they were gap controlling and looking for it. What is mind boggling to me is that when you cover all the gaps and send extra men you have to take someone out of coverage. Supposedly Kubiak said that Andre had an extra man on him all day. My question is how come the Jets D controlled ALL the gaps, put an extra man on AJ and nobody else got open? The Jets weren't allowed to play 14 men. Scheme and playcalling, is the reason the team floundered. The team was totally outcoached Sunday.

I agree on all accounts. Plus, it might not say much for our WR's behind AJ and KW. IMO, Davis doesn't belong in the middle of the field for obvious reasons.

eriadoc
09-15-2009, 11:30 AM
I agree on all accounts. Plus, it might not say much for our WR's behind AJ and KW. IMO, Davis doesn't belong in the middle of the field for obvious reasons.

I never understand the way they use AD. He needs to come in and run streaks. Keep the secondary honest and wear 'em out a little. He's fast as hell. The only other play I see him running would be a slant with some rubbing going on inside. That might free him up to take one a long way. He should be our Bernard Berrian.

leebigeztx
09-15-2009, 11:34 AM
Hou-Tex, I never said playaction boots and rolls. A lot of times moving the pocket using sprint rollouts which gets the defense moving from side to side is what i'm talking about. Sprint the qb out and set outside of the rt and read dragging routes. Then you can come back with some of that same action and throw backside screens. Guys like jenkins,haynesworth, and rogers who carry 330 plus don't like moving side to side and most times give up because they're pentrating to a point, but the point is no longer there. That's what the criticism was on how badly brady was hurt during the sb. Normally they would move the pockets with semi rolls or full rolls away from pressure, but since his ankle was in bad shape, they left him at the midline all game. Schaub was in the same situation. No half rolls or full spprint rolls to get away from pressure. AJ on the opposite field dragging all the way across with a high low makes for easy completions against a ultra aggressive defense. It didn't happen because schaub is hurt.

HOU-TEX
09-15-2009, 11:47 AM
Hou-Tex, I never said playaction boots and rolls. A lot of times moving the pocket using sprint rollouts which gets the defense moving from side to side is what i'm talking about. Sprint the qb out and set outside of the rt and read dragging routes. Then you can come back with some of that same action and throw backside screens. Guys like jenkins,haynesworth, and rogers who carry 330 plus don't like moving side to side and most times give up because they're pentrating to a point, but the point is no longer there. That's what the criticism was on how badly brady was hurt during the sb. Normally they would move the pockets with semi rolls or full rolls away from pressure, but since his ankle was in bad shape, they left him at the midline all game. Schaub was in the same situation. No half rolls or full spprint rolls to get away from pressure. AJ on the opposite field dragging all the way across with a high low makes for easy completions against a ultra aggressive defense. It didn't happen because schaub is hurt.

Ah, gotcha. Kinda like the QB taking it upon himself to move the pocket, so to speak. Hell, I think I would've been trying everything in order to get Schaub some extra time.

76Texan
09-15-2009, 12:18 PM
Hou-Tex, I never said playaction boots and rolls. A lot of times moving the pocket using sprint rollouts which gets the defense moving from side to side is what i'm talking about. Sprint the qb out and set outside of the rt and read dragging routes. Then you can come back with some of that same action and throw backside screens. Guys like jenkins,haynesworth, and rogers who carry 330 plus don't like moving side to side and most times give up because they're pentrating to a point, but the point is no longer there. That's what the criticism was on how badly brady was hurt during the sb. Normally they would move the pockets with semi rolls or full rolls away from pressure, but since his ankle was in bad shape, they left him at the midline all game. Schaub was in the same situation. No half rolls or full spprint rolls to get away from pressure. AJ on the opposite field dragging all the way across with a high low makes for easy completions against a ultra aggressive defense. It didn't happen because schaub is hurt.
Agree, I was just talking about moving the pocket in another thread.

You want these big guys to run all day so they would get tired.

Another thing is they need to learn Schaub the art of the quick pump fake.

FR0497
09-15-2009, 12:27 PM
Hou-Tex, I never said playaction boots and rolls. A lot of times moving the pocket using sprint rollouts which gets the defense moving from side to side is what i'm talking about. Sprint the qb out and set outside of the rt and read dragging routes. Then you can come back with some of that same action and throw backside screens. Guys like jenkins,haynesworth, and rogers who carry 330 plus don't like moving side to side and most times give up because they're pentrating to a point, but the point is no longer there. That's what the criticism was on how badly brady was hurt during the sb. Normally they would move the pockets with semi rolls or full rolls away from pressure, but since his ankle was in bad shape, they left him at the midline all game. Schaub was in the same situation. No half rolls or full spprint rolls to get away from pressure. AJ on the opposite field dragging all the way across with a high low makes for easy completions against a ultra aggressive defense. It didn't happen because schaub is hurt.

Would love to see that. Patriots ran that for Moss quite a few times last night with very good results. I dont recall Brady moving much at all for that play either.

76Texan
09-15-2009, 12:40 PM
Another thing they can mix in is to put 2 TEs on the same side (or employ a 3-TE set).

This way, all the linemen don't have to guess which blitzer they have to take on.

Then move the QB slightly to that side.

badboy
09-15-2009, 12:47 PM
I would sell out my first three picks to get Taylor Mays if we weren't (at this rate anyway) going to end up in the top 5 anyway.As we did not trade up to get Raji, I would not anticipate one for a free safety, especially as Smith seems ok with what we have.

leebigeztx
09-15-2009, 12:50 PM
Ah, gotcha. Kinda like the QB taking it upon himself to move the pocket, so to speak. Hell, I think I would've been trying everything in order to get Schaub some extra time.

Those big nt guys don't like getting cut,wham blocked,or moving side to side. I watched him handle mawae last yr, but I also saw him wear down in their losing streak.

I don't know if you watched jerry rhome when the oilers were here and he had chandler. They had a play when chandler would sprint roll to the right and setup while the backside reciever would run either a streak or deep post. Chandler wasn't the most agile guy, but that was a great play for them. Getting away from jenkins and making revis cover aj on deep digs.

badboy
09-15-2009, 12:55 PM
he would have been destroyed with naked boots vs that defensive scheme....they were gap controlling and looking for it. What is mind boggling to me is that when you cover all the gaps and send extra men you have to take someone out of coverage. Supposedly Kubiak said that Andre had an extra man on him all day. My question is how come the Jets D controlled ALL the gaps, put an extra man on AJ and nobody else got open? The Jets weren't allowed to play 14 men. Scheme and playcalling, is the reason the team floundered. The team was totally outcoached Sunday.Exactly! I kept hearing that AJ was double covered & no one else was open?

leebigeztx
09-15-2009, 01:05 PM
Another thing they can mix in is to put 2 TEs on the same side (or employ a 3-TE set).

This way, all the linemen don't have to guess which blitzer they have to take on.

Then move the QB slightly to that side.

Yeah, 2 tights to balance the def formation and a check with me release worked well with the titans vs pitts thursday. Or a unbalance line with a extra tackle on the los. If the have 7 in the box,run to unbanced side, if have 8, that means 1 on 1 with aj,davis,od, with slaton releasing late in the flat. Since the unbalance is to the right and od is on the left, if they overload blitz, they would have 2 tackles and a back on that side.

TimeKiller
09-15-2009, 05:38 PM
I never understand the way they use AD. He needs to come in and run streaks. Keep the secondary honest and wear 'em out a little. He's fast as hell. The only other play I see him running would be a slant with some rubbing going on inside. That might free him up to take one a long way. He should be our Bernard Berrian.

What you mean like using the fastest guy on the team to run routes that not only are an advantage to him but might open up other opportunities because of the stretch in coverages?

Whatever holmes. What's next, using James Casey in places where you need a big guy who can catch and run? Using David Anderson in anything besides blocking? Going with the runner that is consistently gaining yards even if he's not the listed #1? Oh maybe you would like to throw the ball to your two probowl receivers too?

Derpa derpity dooooo

TheRealJoker
09-15-2009, 05:44 PM
I was surprised we had Hill deactivated when the reason we drafted him was to give the OL help against 3-4 defenses. Especially since Schaub's ankle wasn't at 100% and we know he's gonna be a sitting duck against a Rex Ryan defense.

It looked liked the OL could've used all the help it could get!

ObsiWan
09-15-2009, 06:15 PM
Wrong...

The reason why the Jets were blitzing was because we never established a running game....it had nothing to do with the play call. If Houston can run the ball (If Slaton can lose 20 pounds) you'll see the passing game open up.

How you gonna run the ball when your starter looks like he auditioning for Dancing with the Stars. Slaton tip-toed and danced all day long. You can't do that against a smash-mouth defense. You have to bring it. Slaton looked like an over-weight Reggie Bush. Go back and watch the "tape". Slaton never once ran hard. And the one time he actually took a decent hit, he upchucked the ball.

Chris Brown ran hard - the three times he got to carry the ball - and got benched for his trouble.

thunderkyss
09-15-2009, 06:19 PM
I never understand the way they use AD. He needs to come in and run streaks. Keep the secondary honest and wear 'em out a little. He's fast as hell. The only other play I see him running would be a slant with some rubbing going on inside. That might free him up to take one a long way. He should be our Bernard Berrian.

Do we have a QB on the roster with enough arm to get it out to our "Berrian"?

TexansSeminole
09-15-2009, 06:28 PM
How you gonna run the ball when your starter looks like he auditioning for Dancing with the Stars. Slaton tip-toed and danced all day long. You can't do that against a smash-mouth defense. You have to bring it. Slaton looked like an over-weight Reggie Bush. Go back and watch the "tape". Slaton never once ran hard. And the one time he actually took a decent hit, he upchucked the ball.

Chris Brown ran hard - the three times he got to carry the ball - and got benched for his trouble.

I noticed Slaton's poor vision in the preseason. I don't know what happened to him. He is dancing and just not running through the proper holes. There haven't been a lot of holes to begin with but he isn't maximizing or even coming close to maximizing what is there.

Everything looks bad this year guys. Poor run defense, limited pass rush from front four and poor safety play = terrible defense. Ineffective run game, a quarterback who can't read blitzes and change protection, and a fragile quarterback = limited points.

Looks like we are back to the bottom.

ObsiWan
09-15-2009, 06:32 PM
Do we have a QB on the roster with enough arm to get it out to our "Berrian"?

Both the subs have more arm strength than Schaub.
But Kubiak won't make the change until we've lost 3-4 in a row.
Orlovsky has the strongest arm of the three but he's Orlovsky. He's already lost the faith of the coaches. You won't see him anytime soon either.
Kubiak hasn't seen enough of Rex to yank his "Chosen One", Schaub, in favor of Rex.

I would.
Next week, Rex would start. And so would Chris Brown.

TimeKiller
09-15-2009, 07:19 PM
Both the subs have more arm strength than Schaub.
But Kubiak won't make the change until we've lost 3-4 in a row.
Orlovsky has the strongest arm of the three but he's Orlovsky. He's already lost the faith of the coaches. You won't see him anytime soon either.
Kubiak hasn't seen enough of Rex to yank his "Chosen One", Schaub, in favor of Rex.

I would.
Next week, Rex would start. And so would Chris Brown.

I would start Brown but not Rex. Too early for my blood to gamble with the leadership of the team. Maybe you tell Schaub he's on a short leash but starting Rex would send a message either sky high if they won or to the bottom of bottoms if they lose...and since their playing an "angry" Titans team I've got my doubts about winning.

thunderkyss
09-15-2009, 09:02 PM
I noticed Slaton's poor vision in the preseason.

I mentioned the same thing and got slamed. granted I "noticed" a tendency to break the ball to the left every time, then in Minnesota it looked like right was the way he was going to go, if he decided to cut.

Last year, he showed good vision. This year, I haven't seen it. But he's lacking his burst right now, more than anything.

Honoring Earl 34
09-15-2009, 09:51 PM
Alright , I've watched some film and it's not so bad .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWypzt6kBjg

texanhead08
09-15-2009, 10:21 PM
QFT. "Running to set up the pass" is the most made up concept EVER. What worked last year? Over the middle to OD, opening up Slaton to the run and AJ to the long bomb.

WTF are we back to run, run, run (-3 net) then throw?



Sid Gillman the late ex Chargers/Oilers coach said that running to set up the pass is horse****. He always said you pass to set up the run.

New_Texans
09-15-2009, 10:26 PM
Rex Grossman over Schaub...lol, oh really?

We may be in the running for drafting a legit QB this coming draft, yes. However, I'm thinking it will be one of those groom and school types not a start you first day...aka a second or third rounder unless we absolutely suck and are drafting in the top five.

Btw, Sanchez is kinda the real deal; he was impressive...even against our horrid D he didn't walk around like a rookie. The guy has swagger and an obvious love for the game...im not gonna deny that.

cuppacoffee
09-15-2009, 10:51 PM
I would start Brown but not Rex. Too early for my blood to gamble with the leadership of the team. Maybe you tell Schaub he's on a short leash but starting Rex would send a message either sky high if they won or to the bottom of bottoms if they lose...and since their playing an "angry" Titans team I've got my doubts about winning.


I think this says it all.

Texan fans expect the Titans to be angry and come out with fire in their bellies, our Texans...not so much.

This team does not inspire confidence, but it's their own doing.

Like many others here I am also losing confidence in this staff.

Schaub injuring himself on the chalk line :foottap:, that experiment should be dead in the water.


:coffee:

76Texan
09-17-2009, 01:34 AM
Hou-Tex, I never said playaction boots and rolls. A lot of times moving the pocket using sprint rollouts which gets the defense moving from side to side is what i'm talking about. Sprint the qb out and set outside of the rt and read dragging routes. Then you can come back with some of that same action and throw backside screens. Guys like jenkins,haynesworth, and rogers who carry 330 plus don't like moving side to side and most times give up because they're pentrating to a point, but the point is no longer there. That's what the criticism was on how badly brady was hurt during the sb. Normally they would move the pockets with semi rolls or full rolls away from pressure, but since his ankle was in bad shape, they left him at the midline all game. Schaub was in the same situation. No half rolls or full spprint rolls to get away from pressure. AJ on the opposite field dragging all the way across with a high low makes for easy completions against a ultra aggressive defense. It didn't happen because schaub is hurt.From the Anthony Alridge's thread, this play is actually one of the examples of actually moving the pocket that I was thinking of.
It fits right into our scheme on the O-line.

The QB is in shotgun, he doesn't need the extra movement of taking the snap from center, drop back and/or turn to roll out.
Less footwork = easier on the ankle.
He's ready to strike from the get-go if needed.

Any blitzer would find it not an easy task.

In this case, the D is in an OVER front, with the NT to the weakside.

But the Jets can be in their prevalent UNDER front with the NT on the strong side and the SAM outside (or on) the TE, and MS would be OK just the same.

Or they can be in a 5-man front, it doesn't matter all that much.

They can even line up Jenkins on top of Myers, and at best (if he can time the snap perfectly) he will find himself shooting straigth through the gap untouched, surprised, trying to regain balance and veer left toward the QB.

At the very worst, the QB can easily throw the ball away.

A 6-man front here would be very dangerous for the Defense.
There will be somebody in one-and-one, and/or either the slot receiver or the RB can easily become the hot receiver in the soft zone.
Either wide-out can run a home-run fly route if the CB play press-man coverage.
Or he can run a comebacker quickly if the DB play off-man.

The 3-3 with Jenkins playing like MLB will take forever to get there.

The nickel back would also find it difficult to blitz whether he lines up outside the slot receiver or inside.

There are so many things I like about this play.

Another one is that the QB can survey the whole field with ease.
His viewing angle might be the same (I'd say it's a little smaller) but his peripheral vision should improve.
He can survey the receivers on his right hand side on the roll out to see whether there's a situation he likes.
Before he plants his foot he would have already seen the receivers on his left as well.

Yet another one is that he can see his backside clearly as the other.
There should be no QB hit on this play.

leebigeztx
09-17-2009, 03:33 PM
After watching it again, let me add something else. Our safeties/secondary take a lot of flack for coverage, but diles and ryans are terrible in coverage. You can't really blame the rookie Cushing, but when I watched it again, the route recognition and the ability to squeeze windows is not there. Most people think its just the back 4, but the backs and te's working against the lbs is a advantage for the opposition.

What really makes a solid defense is not only the pressure from the front 7, but lb's closing the mezzanine area between them and the backend. Go watch Minny and their 3 lb's and you will see 3 guys that really make those windows tight. The bucs with brooks and crew were also great at this. The texans lbs need to get better at understanding those inside angles to the qb.

JB
09-17-2009, 04:03 PM
After watching it again, let me add something else. Our safeties/secondary take a lot of flack for coverage, but diles and ryans are terrible in coverage. You can't really blame the rookie Cushing, but when I watched it again, the route recognition and the ability to squeeze windows is not there. Most people think its just the back 4, but the backs and te's working against the lbs is a advantage for the opposition.

What really makes a solid defense is not only the pressure from the front 7, but lb's closing the mezzanine area between them and the backend. Go watch Minny and their 3 lb's and you will see 3 guys that really make those windows tight. The bucs with brooks and crew were also great at this. The texans lbs need to get better at understanding those inside angles to the qb.

This is a very good point that is overlooked by many....

Most of the time it seems that the linebacker is just a step or two away from stopping that 3rd down conversion.

Part of that may be due to the inexperience of our LB group. Would be nice to see Cato in there at Will in passing situations.

That said, I think a very good safety tandem would greatly improve our 3rd down defense.

thunderkyss
09-17-2009, 06:02 PM
After watching it again, let me add something else. Our safeties/secondary take a lot of flack for coverage, but diles and ryans are terrible in coverage. You can't really blame the rookie Cushing, but when I watched it again, the route recognition and the ability to squeeze windows is not there. Most people think its just the back 4, but the backs and te's working against the lbs is a advantage for the opposition.

What really makes a solid defense is not only the pressure from the front 7, but lb's closing the mezzanine area between them and the backend. Go watch Minny and their 3 lb's and you will see 3 guys that really make those windows tight. The bucs with brooks and crew were also great at this. The texans lbs need to get better at understanding those inside angles to the qb.

I completely agree. However, I will say that the Texans Linebackers did perform better in coverage last season, than they did in '06 & '07, & I was hoping they would continue their development this year. I think the LBs in that middle level have to make it difficult for the QB to find throwing lanes. Instead, they can usually put the ball on a rope to just about any place on the field.

Yesterday, I think we focused on shutting down the run so much, that we didn't even have people in that mid level. We played man coverage so much, with our LBs trying to get into the backfield, it wasn't difficult for their receivers to get open once Sanchez started to scramble.

Which is another thing. To see someone come out of college, and move like that, and be as accurate as he was... I mean I wish it was against someone else... Actually I wish it was our QB making someone else's defense look stupid.

Dream'n right?

leebigeztx
09-17-2009, 08:34 PM
Thunderkyss, what bothers me is the disconnect between levels and the inability to adjust. Anyone watching any lick of football will know sanchez never flushes left and in the game never made it to his 2nd read. He basically went to his initial read all day and under pressure since they treated washington like a slug back, the dumpoffs in space were easy.

Look, i'm not saying sanchez isn't going to be good, i'm saying the defensive staff made it way too easy on a rookie on the road. They shouldve been robbing routes and pressure taking away his 1st and 2nd reads early to put doubt in his mind.

thunderkyss
09-18-2009, 02:05 PM
Thunderkyss, what bothers me is the disconnect between levels and the inability to adjust. Anyone watching any lick of football will know sanchez never flushes left and in the game never made it to his 2nd read. He basically went to his initial read all day and under pressure since they treated washington like a slug back, the dumpoffs in space were easy.

Look, i'm not saying sanchez isn't going to be good, i'm saying the defensive staff made it way too easy on a rookie on the road. They shouldve been robbing routes and pressure taking away his 1st and 2nd reads early to put doubt in his mind.

I've only recently started "breaking" down games. I wanted to know if we were just bad, untalented, or if we just didn't know what we were doing. I got hooked, on watching how our team play. But I had blinders on, and I would only look at our offense, or our defense.

I started watching, and "breaking" down other teams, & the difference is amazing. What other teams do as a unit that is. I mean if you watch Mario, Demeco, or Diles, you'll see how fast, strong, intuitive they are. But when you watch the Jets Defense, you can see how creative & frankly ruthless Rex Ryan is. If you watch any defensive play, you can break it down so far as to say, this is the area he was attacking. These are the things he did to draw attention over here. You can even see how he would set us up, from one play to the next.

When our team was on defense, we've got anywhere from 4 to 7 guys on the LOS each trying to do something else. Each guy has to try to beat the man in front of him, anticipate the play, and adjust as the play unfolds.

I've noticed the same thing on offense. When you watch the Colts, or the Pats play against zone coverage, you can see how their routes create a situation where a LB, Safety, or CB has to make a decision. It doesn't matter what decision he makes because the ball will go to whatever option he didn't take.

On our pass plays, if our guy isn't open at the LOS, he's not going to get open unless he's faster, or fools the CB, LB, Safety himself.

Vinny
09-18-2009, 02:58 PM
It helps to know what one is looking at whilst "breaking down" games or it is a lesson in futility.

76Texan
09-21-2009, 01:28 PM
Those big nt guys don't like getting cut,wham blocked,or moving side to side. I watched him handle mawae last yr, but I also saw him wear down in their losing streak.

I don't know if you watched jerry rhome when the oilers were here and he had chandler. They had a play when chandler would sprint roll to the right and setup while the backside reciever would run either a streak or deep post. Chandler wasn't the most agile guy, but that was a great play for them. Getting away from jenkins and making revis cover aj on deep digs.

I just finished watching the first half of the Pats/Jets game.

The Pats did a lot of things our posters mentioned.

They started with the no huddle and stayed with it throughout.
They ran away from Jenkins a lot, making him move sideways.
They double team him more, especially on long pass.
(There were even two triple-team.)
They went with the empty backfield & 5 receivers, throwing quick short pass.
They employed a lot of shotgun formation, making it harder for Jenkins and the Jets' D to get to the QB (farther to go).
They would trap-blocked him.
They even cut block him, who would have thunk!

We're known for cut-blocking, and I don't think we ever tried one on Jenkins, what a shame!

The Pats had good chances to score more than just those 3 FGs in the first half.