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Vinny
09-14-2009, 11:41 AM
So, apparently the book on the Texans around the league is we are soft....no real news to some of us unfortunately.

There is no greater insult than to call an NFL team soft.

Rex RyanAPJets coach Rex Ryan's team out-toughed the Houston Texans.

Well, that's how the Houston Texans are being labeled around the league following their 24-7 loss to the New York Jets.

“What we want to do is get hands on them and be physical,” Jets linebacker Bart Scott said in remarks distributed by the team. “That's how you beat a finesse team. ..

"We got to set the tone, we’re a physical defense. We dare you to come up and butt heads with us and that’s what you have to do. You got to come up, make guys know it’s not going to be a comfortable pocket."

Jets coach Rex Ryan reportedly questioned the Texans' toughness in a pregame speech.

"When Rex came here, he pretty much brought that old-school, nasty mentality with him," linebacker David Harris said. "I think it trickled down through all the players today. We out-toughed them."

Both Scott and Harris delivered some big hits, including Scott's shot on quarterback Matt Schaub and a Harris hit on a receiver.

"The great boxers go to the body first and go to the head later," Scott said. "You have to hit 'em in the mouth and tell them it isn't going to be easy: 'If you want to go through the road, you have to pay the toll.'"

Ouch.“What we want to do is get hands on them and be physical,” linebacker Bart Scott said. “That's how you beat a finesse team.” - from RJ chronhttp://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wilson-Texans-toughness-questioned.html

Posted by ESPN.com's Paul Kuharsky

What I think they are thinking in the headquarters of the four AFC South teams Monday morning:

Houston Texans

The Jets called us a finesse team after they whooped us, and what sort of believable denial can we issue in response based on what happened? We need to prove we’re tough, and Sunday’s game in Tennessee won’t be an easy place to do it. Message No. 1 Monday for players has to be about how we need to work and fight our way out of this, not spend any further time feeling sorry for ourselves. We don’t need to send messages with words written on our shoes, we need to send them with our play. Drop another game and a slow start is an issue yet again. In Tennessee, our big-name guys need big game performances. http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post?id=3278

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 11:47 AM
of course he did, Vinny. We are soft. We play to our coaches personality. Carebear attitude and a bunch of lame coachspeak. Ryan doesn't buy into this BS gentleman's sport chivalry attitude that Kubiak is so fond of. Ryan calls a spade a spade and needless to say if Ryan's team played like Gary's did, Ryan would have lit them up like a christmas tree. Instead, Gary goes to his team and says it was 'on me'. Gary, you really suck.

Kubiak is part of that lame 50's era football mentality that never wins squat but they play 'the right way'. give me a break. Football is a violent sport that requires toughness and attitude not chivalry and being 'the good guy'. This isn't UIL football Gary. This is the NFL. You have proven you can do well when you have Steve Young or John Elway but with anyone else you are pants.

Kubiak has done a decent job with the offense since YKW's departure, but he was hired to be a head coach, and the guy just sucks as a HC.

Gary better get this turned around real fast or this season is gonna go into the crapper and Gary's head coaching future with it.

Hardcore Texan
09-14-2009, 11:47 AM
There is no greater insult than to call an NFL team soft.

Rex RyanAPJets coach Rex Ryan's team out-toughed the Houston Texans.

Well, that's how the Houston Texans are being labeled around the league following their 24-7 loss to the New York Jets.

“What we want to do is get hands on them and be physical,” Jets linebacker Bart Scott said in remarks distributed by the team. “That's how you beat a finesse team. ..

"We got to set the tone, we’re a physical defense. We dare you to come up and butt heads with us and that’s what you have to do. You got to come up, make guys know it’s not going to be a comfortable pocket."

Jets coach Rex Ryan reportedly questioned the Texans' toughness in a pregame speech.

"When Rex came here, he pretty much brought that old-school, nasty mentality with him," linebacker David Harris said. "I think it trickled down through all the players today. We out-toughed them."

Both Scott and Harris delivered some big hits, including Scott's shot on quarterback Matt Schaub and a Harris hit on a receiver.

"The great boxers go to the body first and go to the head later," Scott said. "You have to hit 'em in the mouth and tell them it isn't going to be easy: 'If you want to go through the road, you have to pay the toll.'"

Ouch.




Hard to argue any of that, we got man-handled and I don't see it getting better anytime soon.

I am sure we can muster some meaningless W's in Decemeber and just finish 500 again though, yay.

gtexan02
09-14-2009, 11:49 AM
of course he did, Vinny. We are soft. We play to our coaches personality. Carebear attitude and a bunch of lame coachspeak. Ryan doesn't buy into this BS gentleman's sport chivalry attitude that Kubiak is so fond of. Ryan calls a spade a spade and needless to say if Ryan's team played like Gary's did, Ryan would have lit them up like a christmas tree. Instead, Gary goes to his team and says it was 'on me'.

Kubiak is part of that lame 50's era football mentality that never wins squat but they play 'the right way'. give me a break. Football is a violent sport that requires toughness and attitude not chivalry and being 'the good guy'.

Kubiak has done a decent job with the offense since YKW's departure, but he was hired to be a head coach, and the guy just sucks as a HC.

Gary better get this turned around real fast or this season is gonna go into the crapper and Gary's head coaching future with it.

What are you even talking about? Where does Gary ever say they play with chivalry and the "right way"

Just this past weekend people were all upset because one of the defensive players said they were looking to play aggressive and "get flags"

Its one thing to go off the deep end after 1 loss (it happens every week here), but to just make up random stuff? This is exhausting

DiehardChris
09-14-2009, 11:49 AM
Well, that's how the Houston Texans are being labeled around the league following their 24-7 loss to the New York Jets.

Er, the Texans have had that label for three seasons now.

Texan_Bill
09-14-2009, 11:50 AM
Soft would be an upgrade. We're more like invisible.

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 11:52 AM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Wilson-Texans-toughness-questioned.html

I think Richard Simmons called the Texans soft yesterday . The ZBS used to be deemed dirty , which made you a feared team . I've read where they changed rules so it's not nearly as feared .

You just can't beat my guys will bust your guys in the chops , drive it down your throat , and make you like it .

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 11:55 AM
What are you even talking about? Where does Gary ever say they play with chivalry and the "right way"

Just this past weekend people were all upset because one of the defensive players said they were looking to play aggressive and "get flags"

Its one thing to go off the deep end after 1 loss (it happens every week here), but to just make up random stuff? This is exhausting

If you don't see it, you dont see it. Gary's style of coaching is very carebear and niiiiiiice. He doesn't show emotion and rarely criticizes anyone with anything other than coachspeak or the good ole 'you know, we just didn't get the job done' BS. he is a flatliner and his team takes on a coaches personality. Bring us a guy in here who will rip someone a new ahole and tell it like it is....maybe then we will get some accountability and some passion in this squad. I don't need a bunch of choirboys...I want a bunch of winners.

I dont care about flags and getting penalties. penalties are bad. pushing the envelope and being aggressive and punishing on the football field is how you win games. the Texans come out flat just like Kubiak coaches.

Vinny
09-14-2009, 11:56 AM
Here is another piece along the same lines from the New York Times. Can anyone see Kubiak make this kind of a speech where his players want to run through a wall for him?

By GREG BISHOP
Published: September 13, 2009

HOUSTON — The seeds for the Jets’ season-opening trouncing of the Houston Texans were planted Saturday night at the team hotel. There, on the eve of his first game as a head coach, Rex Ryan delivered a speech his players described as fiery and passionate.

When Ryan finished, fullback Tony Richardson said, every person in the room, including General Manager Mike Tannenbaum, wanted to grab shoulder pads and head straight for Reliant Stadium. Ryan had given the Jets more than a blueprint with his speech. He had delivered genuine, powerful inspiration.

It showed Sunday against the favored Houston Texans, the hometown team the Jets defeated, 24-7, behind a destructive defense and in front of 70,118 fans. Ryan and the rookie quarterback Mark Sanchez secured their first N.F.L. victory together. Ryan did not coach like a rookie; Sanchez did not play like one.

“We needed to call the N.F.L.P.A. and put him on the banned substances list,” nose tackle Kris Jenkins said, referring to the players union. “Because whatever he said was performance enhancing.”

Cornerback Darrelle Revis watched the way Ryan’s eyes watered with emotion as he spoke, noting how much this meant to him. Linebacker Bart Scott, who followed Ryan north from Baltimore in the off-season, watched the way the body language of his teammates changed when they were infused with Ryan’s passion. In his speech, Ryan reminded his players that he believed in them, reminded them to play the physical brand of football he installed and told them they would put the Texans “to sleep” by the end of the fourth quarter.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/sports/football/14jets.html?_r=1&ref=football

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 11:57 AM
Er, the Texans have had that label for three seasons now.

Capers at least had the team play hard..at least until the DC experiment was a blatant failure and the locker room was lost.

Kubiak's friends at DC have done nothing but field soft and uninspired teams year after year.

Double Barrel
09-14-2009, 11:57 AM
Is this like Stay Puff marshmallow soft or Charmin toilet paper soft? Either way, you get roasted or someone wipes their butt with you. Soft is the last label you want attached to your football team. Maybe we can get Mr. Whipple out of retirement to coach this team.

gtexan02
09-14-2009, 11:58 AM
If you don't see it, you dont see it. Gary's style of coaching is very carebear and niiiiiiice. He doesn't show emotion and rarely criticizes anyone with anything other than coachspeak or the good ole 'you know, we just didn't get the job done' BS. he is a flatliner and his team takes on a coaches personality. Bring us a guy in here who will rip someone a new ahole and tell it like it is....maybe then we will get some accountability and some passion in this squad. I don't need a bunch of choirboys...I want a bunch of winners.

I dont care about flags and getting penalties. penalties are bad. pushing the envelope and being aggressive and punishing on the football field is how you win games. the Texans come out flat just like Kubiak coaches.

All of that is worthless garbage in my opinion. You can yell and cuss and pep talk your team all you want, but in the end, the actual coaching is what wins games. We tried the yeller and the cusser and it didn't work. We tried the intelectual coach and it didn't work.

You can either coach or you can't. Yelling at the team and giving them pep talks is just a bunch of fluff. Of course the winning team is going to say they were super pumped before the game. im sure our guys were as well. They just got outplayed and outcoached. I doubt the yelling had anything to do with it

Vinny
09-14-2009, 11:59 AM
All of that is worthless garbage in my opinion. You can yell and cuss and pep talk your team all you want, but in the end, the actual coaching is what wins games. We tried the yeller and the cusser and it didn't work. We tried the intelectual coach and it didn't work.

You can either coach or you can't. Yelling at the team and giving them pep talks is just a bunch of fluff. Of course the winning team is going to say they were super pumped before the game. im sure our guys were as well. They just got outplayed and outcoached. I doubt the yelling had anything to do with it

http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1248904&postcount=9

gtexan02
09-14-2009, 12:00 PM
Capers at least had the team play hard..at least until the DC experiment was a blatant failure and the locker room was lost.

Kubiak's friends at DC have done nothing but field soft and uninspired teams year after year.

But Richard Smith was a fiery guy who yelled a lot? He criticized the players. Especially Jethro Franklin. Why didn't that work?

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 12:01 PM
exactly, Vinny. Ryan is a leader and can inspire teams. He proved it his first Sunday as HC. Gary just doesn't have that in his DNA. He hasn't showed it in going on 4 years.

How many times do we have to be behind 17-0 or start the season with a whimper before people get it?

Based on the change in this forum's tone, it takes 3 years and one game of witnessing it. I am proud of this forum for not sugarcoating this loss. There are a few trying to do it, but it looks like people are finally seeing Gary for what he is. A woefully unqualified, unprepared, and incapable head coach.

glad I am not alone in this sentiment.

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 12:02 PM
But Richard Smith was a fiery guy who yelled a lot? He criticized the players. Especially Jethro Franklin. Why didn't that work?

just yelling isn't going to get the job done. no one is saying that. you gotta have inspirational ability and have true leadership AND the ability to X and O. Gary has some of the latter traits but very little of the former.

HOU-TEX
09-14-2009, 12:03 PM
First off, I definitely think we're a soft finesse team. But I think it has more to do with being consistant, which this team has yet to create since their inception. For instance, we fought the titans last season with toughness and grit, yet turned around and laid an egg the following week.

NitroGSXR
09-14-2009, 12:03 PM
I love my team but they're all a bunch of pansies. I think Bill Kollar has more intensity than any other member of the entire Houston Texans organization. Let's suit him up!

TheRealJoker
09-14-2009, 12:06 PM
We are the NFL version of the Tin man from Wizard of Oz :-(

Marcus
09-14-2009, 12:09 PM
Just to say that they are "soft" is masking what the real problem is.

If you lose the battle on the line, is that what "soft" means? Take Chris Meyers vs. Brian Jenkins for example. Was Myers "soft"?

Or was it that he got physically beaten by player much bigger and stronger than him?

Or take the line play in general. Where do you draw the line between attitude and physical ability?

nero THE zero
09-14-2009, 12:16 PM
I love my team but they're all a bunch of pansies. I think Bill Kollar has more intensity than any other member of the entire Houston Texans organization. Let's suit him up!

Alex Gibbs will fight you.

TexansSeminole
09-14-2009, 12:16 PM
Well the softness of this team starts with the offensive and defensive line. We've got Myers and Brisiel in there who get bulldozed consistently. Even Winston gets blown up pretty regularly. Winston is a below average right tackle IMO. I've seen him get blown up a little too often for my liking. He has his games when he plays really well, but most of the time he's playing below average, especially in the run game.

Our defensive tackles are completely soft. Amobi Okoye and Shaun Cody aren't going to push anybody's offensive line around except maybe ours in practice.

Our attitude is completely soft. Our head coach shows no passion, unless his QB f's up and then he has a confused pissed off look, but still doesn't use it to be constructive.

We need someone that inspires as a head coach, not a friend or a daddy figure that's slow to hold his 'kids' accountable.

HoustonFrog
09-14-2009, 12:17 PM
It's a Texans trademark...soft. I said this in a thread Friday...when you watched Pitt and Tenn did you see 2 defenses or teams that represented any of the hard nosed play you see here?No, not even close. Teams know they are soft and that is how they attack them. the toughest D they had was the first year and it was because they had some ass kickers.

eriadoc
09-14-2009, 12:18 PM
As I said in another thread, the team has all gelled now - right into Jello. And what's softer than Jello?

Mr. White
09-14-2009, 12:18 PM
The Texans just don't have a pair and they don't have a coach that'll make them grow a pair.

The team is fundamentally flawed.

TheRealJoker
09-14-2009, 12:19 PM
Just to say that they are "soft" is masking what the real problem is.

If you lose the battle on the line, is that what "soft" means? Take Chris Meyers vs. Brian Jenkins for example. Was Myers "soft"?

Or was it that he got physically beaten by player much bigger and stronger than him?

Or take the line play in general. Where do you draw the line between attitude and physical ability?

The main idea is that we are a "finesse" team. We cant compete with physical defenses unless we just get really lucky and catch one of them sleeping. We dont have the power or the attitude to really match their aggression and raw physicality.

When the other team hits your QB every play regardless of if there's a sack he's gonna get happy feet, especially when he knows he cant step up in the pocket. That's what these defenses do, go out there and hit our QB in the mouth. Schaub has skills, but no QB can perform that well when he's getting hit repeatedly and cant step up in the pocket. Not even King Manning.

Double Barrel
09-14-2009, 12:21 PM
Well, the great thing is that next year's season tickets gift will be a customized Snuggie™ Blanket, because they're soft, too.

Blazin' Toro
09-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Here's to hoping they get their ****ing acts together next week...Regardless if its the Titans we're playing, does anyone remember who we defeated to ruin their undefeated season?

Texans Pride
09-14-2009, 12:22 PM
Here is another piece along the same lines from the New York Times. Can anyone see Kubiak make this kind of a speech where his players want to run through a wall for him?



http://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/14/sports/football/14jets.html?_r=1&ref=football


Nope, can't see it at all. In fact, last Monday, I heard Kubiak,during his radio show, say that he hopes that he doesn't have to give too many speeches. That if you have to give too many speeches to a team, that probably means there's a problem.

Way to lead the team into battle coach!

TheRealJoker
09-14-2009, 12:24 PM
Nope, can't see it at all. In fact, last Monday, I heard Kubiak,during his radio show, say that he hopes that he doesn't have to give too many speeches. That if you have to give too many speeches to a team, that probably means there's a problem.

Way to lead the team into battle coach!

I swear, my head is gonna explode if Kubiak answers a reporter who asks him if next week is a must win game with, "Well I dont think its a must win game. I think its a must play well game."

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!

HoustonFrog
09-14-2009, 12:34 PM
Does this start at the top? I mean the kid gloves with which McNair treated Carr and does the coaches...do people think their is accountability?If not then this breeds doughy softness because who really cares if you can be the semi-best player or a decent coach and get second chances because you are good people.

Redtexan#34
09-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Kubiak has made mistake after mistake the lack of a proper game plan and ability to adapt to the Jets Defense speaks volumes of his coaching ability. I agree with you second honeymoon Kubiak always has this "ah shucks guys will get them next week" persona anytime he is on camera. Think about the times in the past when we have went for it on 4th down and Kubiak turns his head and looks the other way. It has always seemed to me that Kubiak is way to conservative and that is surprising because in Denver they were always trying trick plays or giving unproven players a chance(Terrel Davis). It has become clear to me that all of that risk taking was all Mike Shannahan. Someone should tell him(John Elway maybe Mike schelrith), "Gary Kubiak, Mike Shannahan was a friend of mine, you sir are no Mike Shannahan".

Texan Asylum
09-14-2009, 01:06 PM
Is this like Stay Puff marshmallow soft or Charmin toilet paper soft? Either way, you get roasted or someone wipes their butt with you. Soft is the last label you want attached to your football team. Maybe we can get Mr. Whipple out of retirement to coach this team.

Got our new center right here...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/3095728606_dbe8e1769f.jpg

Ryan
09-14-2009, 01:29 PM
Got our new center right here...

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3009/3095728606_dbe8e1769f.jpg

he looks alot tougher than any of our guys.

TexansBlood
09-14-2009, 01:35 PM
Our softness is a reflection of our coach. Kubiak probably went into the locker room and told the guys they did a good job and atleast tried, pure BS!

Goldensilence
09-14-2009, 01:35 PM
As I said in another thread, the team has all gelled now - right into Jello. And what's softer than Jello?

Whipped cream?

TimeKiller
09-14-2009, 01:39 PM
Questioned?

More like...answered, with a big sparkling HELL NO surrounded in flowers, bunny rabbits, prancing about and a rainbow in the background for good measure.

Vinny
09-14-2009, 02:48 PM
The Jets got an inspirational pre-game speech from their head coach. He had his team prepared to play, then got it emotionally ready as well.

"Honestly it is hard to kind of put it into words but we have come to the conclusion that we need to call the NFLPA and put him on the banned substances list because whatever he said was performing enhancing, definitely," Jets lineman Kris Jenkins said.

I asked a Texans about Kubiak's pre-game speech, and the player shook his head and laughed.

Inexcusable. And unacceptable. http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2009/09/texans_performance_inexcusable.html

Kaiser Toro
09-14-2009, 02:52 PM
http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2009/09/texans_performance_inexcusable.html

Yeah, I saw that this morning. I am not a fan of Solomon's takes/pieces, but I have a feeling this one is true - if it is made up, there would be some serious hell to pay.

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 03:09 PM
Yeah, I saw that this morning. I am not a fan of Solomon's takes/pieces, but I have a feeling this one is true - if it is made up, there would be some serious hell to pay.

Help is on it's way .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H_YK9wVK6IQ&feature=related

Ckw
09-14-2009, 03:12 PM
Wow. I am speechless. That article really nailed things. I usually don't like his stuff, but this was a great article. Pathetic.

If things don't change big time next week, I will officially be on the Fire Kubiak Bandwagon. Two things stood out to me big time: Kubiak/Shanny being so arrogant that they thought they could run run run on the Jets and not utilizing James Casey. The guy is a giant mismatch and not getting him involved in the game is enough for me to say Kubiak does not deserve to be the HC of this football team. Absolutely pathetic!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Man, I am pissed off. Is this guy the most arrogant coach in football?

Norg
09-14-2009, 03:26 PM
well the colts are a finesse Team and they seem 2 do pretty well

The way to beat a physical team on Offensive is to spread them out get them moving around and out smart them

u seen on that last 4th quarter drive we where driving on them Hard

Let the pasing game open up your running game and tire them out

If one seen our middle get eaten up by jenkins alot i know its not safe but play to our strengths Scahub should have denver rolled out right or left he does it all the time

i dont know if is ankle was still hurt but scahub was not mobile at all

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 03:31 PM
Winning makes you tough. Losing makes you weak. There's no extra credit looking "tough" and losing.

Jackie Chiles
09-14-2009, 03:33 PM
Winning makes you tough. Losing makes you weak. There's no extra credit looking "tough" and losing.

I would have absolutely given them extra credit for looking tough and losing yesterday.

HoustonFrog
09-14-2009, 03:33 PM
well the colts are a finesse Team and they seem 2 do pretty well
The way to beat a physical team on Offensive is to spread them out get them moving around and out smart them

u seen on that last 4th quarter drive we where driving on them Hard

Let the pasing game open up your running game and tire them out

If one seen our middle get eaten up by jenkins alot i know its not safe but play to our strengths Scahub should have denver rolled out right or left he does it all the time

i dont know if is ankle was still hurt but scahub was not mobile at all

Actually they didn't win crap until Bob Sanders and the defense started smacking people in the mouth...to go along with their offense. Plus their O-line does pretty well creating holes and protecting.

Texan_Bill
09-14-2009, 03:34 PM
I disagree with that. You can get punched in the mouth and lose a fight, but by the same token it can make you tougher in the long run. As long as you keep getting back up and fighting.

Problem yesterday was that the Texans got punched in the mouth, & couldn't fight back. Then they took one to the gut, kidneys, and the junk.... The Texans never fought back. They did their team wide impression of HWSNBN and went fetal.

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 03:34 PM
I would have absolutely given them extra credit for looking tough and losing yesterday.

My point is toughness is overrated and all that matters is W/L

Vinny
09-14-2009, 03:37 PM
My point is toughness is overrated and all that matters is W/L
toughness is never overrated in football. This is a game about strategy, assertiveness, toughness and desire. Most of the athletes are equal when you take their measurables. Things like toughness and desire separate the "kids" from the "Men".

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 03:38 PM
toughness is never overrated in football. This is a game about strategy, assertiveness, toughness and desire. Most of the athletes are equal when you take their measurables. Things like toughness and desire separate the "kids" from the "Men".

Disagree. The difference between the Patriots and the Lions is WAY MORE than toughness.

Porky
09-14-2009, 03:39 PM
This team is softer than a baby's bottom and has the same stuff coming out of it. :spit:

Vinny
09-14-2009, 03:40 PM
Disagree. The difference between the Patriots and the Lions is WAY MORE than toughness.
I thought I used other words along with toughness? Perhaps I posted them in invisofont.

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 03:47 PM
Disagree. The difference between the Patriots and the Lions is WAY MORE than toughness, desire, & strategy.

FIFY Vinny

Vinny
09-14-2009, 03:51 PM
FIFY Vinny
Ok, so I guess you know what you are talking about then. I probably overrate strategy in a strategy game, toughness in a hitting game and assertiveness in a game that rewards suddenness and imposing your will on people. Silly me.

eriadoc
09-14-2009, 03:53 PM
Ok, so I guess you know what you are talking about then. I probably overrate strategy in a strategy game, toughness in a hitting game and assertiveness in a game that rewards suddenness and imposing your will on people. Silly me.

Seriously, I don't even know why you watch this game.

:D

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 03:56 PM
Ok, so I guess you know what you are talking about then. I probably overrate strategy in a strategy game, toughness in a hitting game and assertiveness in a game that rewards suddenness and imposing your will on people. Silly me.

Yeah you are, the Patriots win because they're super talented the Lions lose because they are not its pretty simple.

Vinny
09-14-2009, 03:58 PM
Yeah you are, the Patriots win because they're super talented the Lions lose because they are not its pretty simple.

boy I bet I could learn a lot from you. I gotta pay closer attention to your posts.

HoustonFrog
09-14-2009, 04:03 PM
I disagree with that. You can get punched in the mouth and lose a fight, but by the same token it can make you tougher in the long run. As long as you keep getting back up and fighting.

Problem yesterday was that the Texans got punched in the mouth, & couldn't fight back. Then they took one to the gut, kidneys, and the junk.... The Texans never fought back. They did their team wide impression of HWSNBN and went fetal.

With what?The Colts assertion I made that they got better when their defense started knocking people around and the oline controlled games better?

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 04:16 PM
My point is toughness is overrated and all that matters is W/L

you couldn't be more wrong. you can't win without being tough in this league. people point to successful 'finesse' teams but forget that they showed toughness by taking another team's best shot and still competing or showing their teeth on defense.

The Texans are soft, their coach is soft, and we will never win squat until that changes. Look at the Titans. They play tough because their coach demands it. You don't see Fisher being Billy Bad A$$ but you know that he demands toughness and uber competitiveness just to even start for his teams. All it takes to start on our teams is to be drafted early.

Texan_Bill
09-14-2009, 04:16 PM
Winning makes you tough. Losing makes you weak. There's no extra credit looking "tough" and losing.

I disagree with that. You can get punched in the mouth and lose a fight, but by the same token it can make you tougher in the long run. As long as you keep getting back up and fighting.

Problem yesterday was that the Texans got punched in the mouth, & couldn't fight back. Then they took one to the gut, kidneys, and the junk.... The Texans never fought back. They did their team wide impression of HWSNBN and went fetal.

With what?The Colts assertion I made that they got better when their defense started knocking people around and the oline controlled games better?

With the bolded.... The late '70's Oilers were not that talented (save Earl and a couple of others), but they were tough sumbitches and eventually won.

dalemurphy
09-14-2009, 04:23 PM
Disagree. The difference between the Patriots and the Lions is WAY MORE than toughness.

What do you think is the difference between Tennessee, Pittsburgh, NYJets, Baltimore, Philadelphia... and teams like Houston. It's not talent!

HoustonFrog
09-14-2009, 04:26 PM
With the bolded.... The late '70's Oilers were not that talented (save Earl and a couple of others), but they were tough sumbitches and eventually won.

Gotcha...I just saw it after mine and wondered!:foottap:

mussop
09-14-2009, 04:29 PM
I would have absolutely given them extra credit for looking tough and losing yesterday.

I agree. Loosing is one thing, getting youre ass stomped into the ground is another thing all together. Good teams loose soemtimes it just happens but its not very often a GOOD team gets road graded.

My point is toughness is overrated and all that matters is W/L

Toughnes is important in all physical sports no matter how talented or good you are. Thats just the reality of it. You dont have to be a team of total baddasses but youre not going to win many games if you get pushed around like we did yesterday.

Hervoyel
09-14-2009, 04:38 PM
With the bolded.... The late '70's Oilers were not that talented (save Earl and a couple of others), but they were tough sumbitches and eventually won.


There's something to that whole "Will not be denied" approach where football is concerned. Really sports in general. Those Oiler teams didn't know they couldn't do something. It just never seemed to enter their minds that they didn't even come close to matching up with the Steelers of that era and so they were some of the toughest games Pittsburgh had back then. Many people said that at that time for a couple of years the best two teams in the NFL played in the AFC Central. Pittsburgh was extremely talented and the Oilers were extremely tough and determined.

And they had Earl Who was talented AND tough AND determined.

Grid
09-14-2009, 04:44 PM
So Rex Ryan huh? I havent seen so many people on these forums with a man crush of this magnitude since Vince Young entered the draft.

Double Barrel
09-14-2009, 05:26 PM
My point is toughness is overrated and all that matters is W/L

Alright, name the last soft team that won a Super Bowl.

TheRealJoker
09-14-2009, 05:28 PM
Alright, name the last soft team that won a Super Bowl.

St. Louis Rams and to a lesser extent but more recent on the finesse scale Indianapolis Colts.

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 05:32 PM
St. Louis Rams and to a lesser extent but more recent on the finesse scale Indianapolis Colts.

I guess it helps when you have 3 maybe 4 HOF players on one side of the ball .

Texan_Bill
09-14-2009, 05:35 PM
There's something to that whole "Will not be denied" approach where football is concerned. Really sports in general. Those Oiler teams didn't know they couldn't do something. It just never seemed to enter their minds that they didn't even come close to matching up with the Steelers of that era and so they were some of the toughest games Pittsburgh had back then. Many people said that at that time for a couple of years the best two teams in the NFL played in the AFC Central. Pittsburgh was extremely talented and the Oilers were extremely tough and determined.

And they had Earl Who was talented AND tough AND determined.

Yup!

Re: the 1979 Divisional Playoffs without Earl or Pastorini. Enter Giff, Rob Carpenter, Tim Wilson, Boobie Clark and the real hero, Vernon Perry. No one gave the Oilers a chance to go into San Diego and win.

The Oilers simply refused to lose that game.


During a game with the Steelers, I remember Mean Joe Green saying after Earl left hurt, [paraphrasing] "we never wished for players to get hurt, but we were glad to see Earl leave the game" (or something to that effect).

ArlingtonTexan
09-14-2009, 05:36 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Sunday-at-the-Post-4962.html

“Attitude is the whole thing in football. Every team has the talent and the coaching. Motivation makes the difference. The teams that win stay healthy and interested.” -- Sid Gillman, Hall of Fame coach with the San Diego Chargers, Los Angeles Rams and Houston Oilers

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 05:40 PM
http://www.nationalfootballpost.com/Sunday-at-the-Post-4962.html

“Attitude is the whole thing in football. Every team has the talent and the coaching. Motivation makes the difference. The teams that win stay healthy and interested.” -- Sid Gillman, Hall of Fame coach with the San Diego Chargers, Los Angeles Rams and Houston Oilers

I see your Gillman and raise you a Vince .

The difference between a successful person and others is not a lack of strength, not a lack of knowledge, but rather a lack of will.
Vince Lombardi

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 06:02 PM
What do you think is the difference between Tennessee, Pittsburgh, NYJets, Baltimore, Philadelphia... and teams like Houston. It's not talent!

Um, they all have great defenses, we don't?

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 06:13 PM
you couldn't be more wrong. you can't win without being tough in this league. people point to successful 'finesse' teams but forget that they showed toughness by taking another team's best shot and still competing or showing their teeth on defense.

The Texans are soft, their coach is soft, and we will never win squat until that changes. Look at the Titans. They play tough because their coach demands it. You don't see Fisher being Billy Bad A$$ but you know that he demands toughness and uber competitiveness just to even start for his teams. All it takes to start on our teams is to be drafted early.

I agree you can't win without being tough, but this idea that toughness translates directly to winning football games is ridiculous. Plenty of tough division 1-AA college teams get steam rolled by the likes of Florida and Texas every year in college because they aren't as good of a football team and on Sunday the Texans weren't as good as the Jets. Decorate the loss with adjectives all you want, they weren't tough they weren't this and that, the point is we weren't as good.

Double Barrel
09-14-2009, 06:14 PM
St. Louis Rams and to a lesser extent but more recent on the finesse scale Indianapolis Colts.

The Rams' defense led the league in fewest rushing yards allowed (1,189) and fewest rushing touchdowns allowed (4), while giving up just 242 points. Overall, the defense ranked 4th in the league in fewest total yards allowed (5,056).

----------------

Indianapolis' defense ranked second in the NFL in fewest passing yards allowed. Dwight Freeney and Robert Mathis (who recorded 9.5 sacks and forced 4 fumbles) were widely considered to be among the best pass-rushing defensive ends in the NFL. Behind them, linebacker Cato June led the team in tackles (92) and interceptions (3).

----------------

These teams were not soft. "Finesse" offenses - yes. But overall, they were not SOFT.

Wolf
09-14-2009, 06:25 PM
I am thinking Tracy McGrady could fit in running the wildcat

hell he might add some toughness, after seeing our offense yesterday

:cow:

TexansSeminole
09-14-2009, 07:46 PM
I agree you can't win without being tough, but this idea that toughness translates directly to winning football games is ridiculous. Plenty of tough division 1-AA college teams get steam rolled by the likes of Florida and Texas every year in college because they aren't as good of a football team and on Sunday the Texans weren't as good as the Jets. Decorate the loss with adjectives all you want, they weren't tough they weren't this and that, the point is we weren't as good.

Because using college football really helps your argument. College football is completely different. Your talking about a huge difference in speed and overall athletic ability. Every NFL team has major athletes, div I-AA teams do not. If you cannot understand that it is no wonder you can't understand the importance of toughness in football.

m5kwatts
09-14-2009, 07:59 PM
Because using college football really helps your argument. College football is completely different. Your talking about a huge difference in speed and overall athletic ability. Every NFL team has major athletes, div I-AA teams do not. If you cannot understand that it is no wonder you can't understand the importance of toughness in football.

I think there's a HUGE difference between Tom Brady or Peyton Manning being your quarterback as opposed to a Byron Leftwich or Jake Delhomme. There's a HUGE difference between James Harrison, Haloti Ngata, Trent Cole, and Ed Reed as opposed to bad teams who rely on bad secondarys (like us) or bad pass rushers. Talent wins in this league, not being able to beat someone up. The difference between bad organizations like the Rams Lions and Chiefs etc. and the winning orgs. like the Patriots Steelers and so on isn't "toughness" or "meanness" or whatever adjective, its TALENT. TALENT wins on Sundays period.

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 08:01 PM
Because using college football really helps your argument. College football is completely different. Your talking about a huge difference in speed and overall athletic ability. Every NFL team has major athletes, div I-AA teams do not. If you cannot understand that it is no wonder you can't understand the importance of toughness in football.

Maybe defining toughness is the key .

Honoring Earl 34
09-14-2009, 08:10 PM
I think there's a HUGE difference between Tom Brady or Peyton Manning being your quarterback as opposed to a Byron Leftwich or Jake Delhomme. There's a HUGE difference between James Harrison, Haloti Ngata, Trent Cole, and Ed Reed as opposed to bad teams who rely on bad secondarys (like us) or bad pass rushers. Talent wins in this league, not being able to beat someone up. The difference between bad organizations like the Rams Lions and Chiefs etc. isn't "toughness" or "meanness" or whatever adjective, its TALENT. TALENT wins on Sundays period.

You ever notice how bad coaches always seem to have bad talent ? What if you applied a Bumism here and say he can take your team and beat his or he can take his team and beat yourens .

As much as I hate to say it , the Titans do a great job of finding guys from all over and get them to buy into the system . Look at their roster and see how many guys are from small schools .

Wolf
09-14-2009, 08:13 PM
Hell there was a C.C Brown sighting in the Giants game


just saying
:bender:

Double Barrel
09-14-2009, 09:42 PM
Nobody is going to argue that talent isn't important. That would be a foolish take. But it's just as foolish to think that intangibles such as heart, will, and attitude are not important, as well. 'Toughness' falls under this category.

The run & shoot Oilers used to be the best team in the league as far as talent was concerned, but they lacked the mental fortitude to consistently instill their will on their opponents. That's why they never accomplished much of anything.

Wolf
09-14-2009, 09:44 PM
new mascot for this week
http://www.hi-net.zaq.ne.jp/foliage/antiques/img/snuggle.jpg

Find the FREAKING Bull this week guys