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76Texan
12-11-2012, 03:38 PM
That thing is not accurate. I just started looking at game logs to post here, and then I realized I don't give a damn enough to bother going through 13 games worth of game logs to prove something that's evident to even a casual fan. Nonetheless, the second game log I looked at had the exact situation I talk about. The team was up, but the game was far from over, and it was 3rd and long inside the 10. Draw play to the right for 6 yards, then punt. Then gave up a TD to make it interesting. That wasn't listed at your link.

I'm not even going over that crap. It's not worth my time. But if you want to use your link for stats, you need to cross reference it with some game logs on NFL.com. Your link is incomplete.

Trust me, I store the game book of each game on my PC.

I also has Game Rewind which also has a play list that you can put right next to the video window.

I know each play exactly with just a click of the mouse.

eriadoc
12-11-2012, 03:58 PM
But if you truly don't think Kubiak will take us there, and you've said the goal is the Superbowl, why wouldn't you be calling for his firing? Otherwise, you're changing public opinion to...what?

Oh, I do want a different coach, just not tomorrow. I'm not a fan of mid-season firings unless it's a total meltdown.

hollywood_texan
12-11-2012, 04:01 PM
I have not posted on here for some time. Therefore, I need to provide some background. In the past, I have been very critical of Kubiak.

Having said that, we are sitting at 11-2. The two losses this team have suffered this season are very similar. Both teams that beat the Texans this year have elite QBs and they jumped on the Texans defense early. Meanwhile, the Texans offense was ineffective early against a middle of the pack defense.

I am by no means a fan of Kubiak, and I will not say I am wrong about him until the Texans bring home the Lombardi Trophy.

Kubiak is a good coach, but has areas of improvement that I believe he can resolve. The key is the Texans organization recognizing that and making sure Kubiak improves his coaching where it is needed.

We have gone too far and improved too much to act rash at this point.

Marcus
12-11-2012, 04:23 PM
To be fair to everyone, even to Kubiak's harshest critics, I don't see anywhere in this 'current' discussion, that anyone wants Kubiak fired at this point. I recognize that.

Yes, with Kubiak, it all starts at the top, and if this season crashes and burns in the end, he deserves as much criticism as everyone else. But if that happens, injuries will be the biggest reason. Nobody wants to talk about injuries, but they play a great deal in the outcome, and is the biggest reason why the defense is not as good as it was earlier. And the injuries will play a big part in the reevaluation after the season is over.

Double Barrel
12-11-2012, 04:30 PM
I can understand believing that Kubiak will not ever bring us to a Superbowl. I can see the deficiencies, but I think every coach has deficiencies and that these flaws that people see in Kubiak aren't so severe that a superbowl is impossible. I'd say we have just as much of a chance with any other coach out there outside of Belichick class coaches.

But if you truly don't think Kubiak will take us there, and you've said the goal is the Superbowl, why wouldn't you be calling for his firing? Otherwise, you're changing public opinion to...what?

Speaking for myself, I'm hoping Kubiak is the blind squirel that lucks into finding a nut one of these days. I'd be happy with a single acorn right now.

I think it's his job to lose. And there is no chance in hell that he's even on hot seat when we are going to the playoffs.

To be fair to everyone, even to Kubiak's harshest critics, I don't see anywhere in this 'current' discussion, that anyone wants Kubiak fired at this point. I recognize that.

Yes, with Kubiak, it all starts at the top, and if this season crashes and burns in the end, he deserves as much criticism as everyone else. But if that happens, injuries will be the biggest reason. Nobody wants to talk about injuries, but they play a great deal in the outcome, and is the biggest reason why the defense is not as good as it was earlier. And the injuries will play a big part in the reevaluation after the season is over.

yep. I think Graham being gone last night really hurt. However, "next man up" only works when you actually have another player to step up.

But every team suffers from injuries. And that's right were better coaching and depth on the bench have a direct impact on games.

76Texan
12-11-2012, 04:33 PM
Speaking for myself, I'm hoping Kubiak is the blind squirel that lucks into finding a nut one of these days. I'd be happy with a single acorn right now.

I think it's his job to lose. And there is no chance in hell that he's even on hot seat when we are going to the playoffs.



yep. I think Graham being gone last night really hurt. However, "next man up" only works when you actually have another player to step up.

But every team suffers from injuries. And that's right were better coaching and depth on the bench have a direct impact on games.
Complaining is always fun :) :mariopalm:

Double Barrel
12-11-2012, 04:35 PM
Complaining is always fun :) :mariopalm:

Fans need to vent as a way to avoid psychopathic behavior.

We get so emotionally invested in something that we have absolutely no control over the outcome.

It's mental and without a way to vent that negative energy, the violent crime rates would probably spike after losses like last night.

:pirate:

p.s. criticism =/= complaining

Hervoyel
12-11-2012, 04:36 PM
Kubiak gets fired when he loses the team and so far I have no choice but to admit that he's never really lost the team. I wish McNair had gone in another direction but I can't deny that the Texans are relatively successful under Kubiak in that Marv Lewis/Norv Turner kind of way that nobody in their right mind really wants to see their team stuck in.

I tend to not hold 2006 against Kubiak. He was having to give David Carr one last shot just to make McNair happy and for all the bitching I've done about Gary being a .500 coach if you discount 2006 he is actually 52-41 which makes him Vince Lombardi compared to Dom Capers.

buddyboy
12-11-2012, 04:47 PM
Oh, I do want a different coach, just not tomorrow. I'm not a fan of mid-season firings unless it's a total meltdown.

Right, I didn't mean mid-season firing, more just a general "we want a new coach" mentality.

Surprised that a coach can go 11-2 and still have his job in question for the next year.

76Texan
12-11-2012, 04:58 PM
Kubiak gets fired when he loses the team and so far I have no choice but to admit that he's never really lost the team. I wish McNair had gone in another direction but I can't deny that the Texans are relatively successful under Kubiak in that Marv Lewis/Norv Turner kind of way that nobody in their right mind really wants to see their team stuck in.

I tend to not hold 2006 against Kubiak. He was having to give David Carr one last shot just to make McNair happy and for all the bitching I've done about Gary being a .500 coach if you discount 2006 he is actually 52-41 which makes him Vince Lombardi compared to Dom Capers.

Even if we count the 2006 season, Kubiak is still 7 games over 500.

Capers is 32 games under the dirt.

Bum Phillips is only 5 over.

76Texan
12-11-2012, 05:01 PM
Right, I didn't mean mid-season firing, more just a general "we want a new coach" mentality.

Surprised that a coach can go 11-2 and still have his job in question for the next year.

Especially when those who don't trust him probably predicted a 9-7 season, maybe a game lower or higher.

eriadoc
12-11-2012, 05:08 PM
Especially when those who don't trust him probably predicted a 9-7 season, maybe a game lower or higher.

I predicted 15-1 (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1938141&postcount=15). :)

76Texan
12-11-2012, 05:17 PM
I predicted 15-1 (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1938141&postcount=15). :)

How did you predict 15-1 knowing from previous years that Kubiak will use the draw play you hate, LOL

thunderkyss
12-11-2012, 08:21 PM
we beat the afc west winner, the afc north winner, beat the bengals twice last year, the steelers last year, the jets, and are about to put 2 beatdowns on the colts. so, outside of the patriots we've beaten all of the playoff teams. kinda paints a picture doesnt it.

Those don't count.

Texan_Bill
12-11-2012, 08:37 PM
How did you predict 15-1 knowing from previous years that Kubiak will use the draw play you hate, LOL

Dunno! I had them 13-3. One of those losses was against the Bears (so I think they're ahead of schedule). I had us winning the last three games, but had ? marks behind them only because I wasn't sure how things would play out with "locking things up" and with regards to playing second stringers and such...

I don't have a problem with the Texans losing last night. I had a problem with how they lost. Dropped passes, Schaub's (and for the record I think he is fine as our a QB) decisions, the defense, Kareem Jackson (who I admittedly said is having a much better season and looks like he's starting to "get it") not fall on a crucial fumble...

Bottom line.... This is still a pretty good team. 11-2 is not shoddy! They just don't know, nay, don't have the experience in big games yet. The only regret I have so far this season? Losing Cushing.

EllisUnit
12-11-2012, 08:44 PM
Dunno! I had them 13-3. One of those losses was against the Bears (so I think they're ahead of schedule). I had us winning the last three games, but had ? marks behind them only because I wasn't sure how things would play out with "locking things up" and with regards to playing second stringers and such...

I don't have a problem with the Texans losing last night. I had a problem with how they lost. Dropped passes, Schaub's (and for the record I think he is fine as our a QB) decisions, the defense, Kareem Jackson (who I admittedly said is having a much better season and looks like he's starting to "get it") not fall on a crucial fumble...

Bottom line.... This is still a pretty good team. 11-2 is not shoddy! They just don't know, nay, don't have the experience in big games yet. The only regret I have so far this season? Losing Cushing.

IF KJ had fallen on the ball instead of trying to scoop it up that would of saved a TD or delayed one atleast.

Texan_Bill
12-11-2012, 08:45 PM
IF KJ had fallen on the ball instead of trying to scoop it up that would of saved a TD or delayed one atleast.

As poorly as the entire effort was... Your statement is more than true.

76Texan
12-11-2012, 08:52 PM
IF KJ had fallen on the ball instead of trying to scoop it up that would of saved a TD or delayed one atleast.

Or he could have gone all the way for a score; that would have been a 14-pt turn-around, wouldn't it?

thunderkyss
12-11-2012, 08:55 PM
You forgot to consider the situations a I had mentioned in an earlier post.

There are only but a few times that are true situations when we need to convert using the run (you can count it with one hand).

One out of five, for example, is 20%.


...

I realized a few hours ago, the people we are arguing with are the people who criticized Kubiak for running & punting the ball away in the games we won. I stopped arguing.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but you can't argue with that.

I didn't turn the TV off last night. I watched Riddley run, run & punt. The only difference is that they were able to pick up first downs before having to punt.

76Texan
12-11-2012, 08:55 PM
Dunno! I had them 13-3. One of those losses was against the Bears (so I think they're ahead of schedule). I had us winning the last three games, but had ? marks behind them only because I wasn't sure how things would play out with "locking things up" and with regards to playing second stringers and such...

I don't have a problem with the Texans losing last night. I had a problem with how they lost. Dropped passes, Schaub's (and for the record I think he is fine as our a QB) decisions, the defense, Kareem Jackson (who I admittedly said is having a much better season and looks like he's starting to "get it") not fall on a crucial fumble...

Bottom line.... This is still a pretty good team. 11-2 is not shoddy! They just don't know, nay, don't have the experience in big games yet. The only regret I have so far this season? Losing Cushing.

I saw your "score card"; it was pretty good.

I had them between 12-4 and 14-2, depending on health issues.

With the injuries that we've had, I think 12-4 would still be a very good season.
Right now it's look more like 14-2 or 13-3

76Texan
12-11-2012, 09:02 PM
I realized a few hours ago, the people we are arguing with are the people who criticized Kubiak for running & punting the ball away in the games we won. I stopped arguing.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but you can't argue with that.

I didn't turn the TV off last night. I watched Riddley run, run & punt. The only difference is that they were able to pick up first downs before having to punt.

It gives me something to do when I'm bored, LOL

thunderkyss
12-11-2012, 09:12 PM
I've got a bad memory, but I think several years ago most people just wanted a coach who could bring multiple play-off seasons to Houston. The Super Bowl was the ultimate goal of course, always.

However, I think most people understood there are 31 losers every year.

Now, it looks like we are on the verge of that very thing. Consistent play-off appearances. We're about to win the AFCS for the second consecutive season.

Some people, all they wanted was a winning division record, we may very well sweep the division.

But they can't enjoy it because they know we won't win the Super Bowl.

Texan_Bill
12-11-2012, 10:22 PM
I saw your "score card"; it was pretty good.

I had them between 12-4 and 14-2, depending on health issues.

With the injuries that we've had, I think 12-4 would still be a very good season.
Right now it's look more like 14-2 or 13-3

yessir... My one outsight on injuries was Cushing. Other than that, this season has been pretty much on track with what I had predicted.

Unfortunately, the last three games I had a ? mark behind it turns out that we need to (at minimum win two out at of the last three) and we'll still be in the AFC conference game.

76Texan
12-11-2012, 10:33 PM
I realized a few hours ago, the people we are arguing with are the people who criticized Kubiak for running & punting the ball away in the games we won. I stopped arguing.

I'm not a Kubiak fan, but you can't argue with that.

I didn't turn the TV off last night. I watched Riddley run, run & punt. The only difference is that they were able to pick up first downs before having to punt.

yessir... My one outsight on injuries was Cushing. Other than that, this season has been pretty much on track with what I had predicted.

Unfortunately, the last three games I had a ? mark behind it turns out that we need to (at minimum win two out at of the last three) and we'll still be in the AFC conference game.

We'd better win at least one, preferrably two.

If they don't win two I think this MB will be overloaded with Fire Kubiak Posts, even from people who predicted a 9-7 or 10-6 or 11-5 season.

It won't matter that the Texans finish better than their prediction, LOL!

eriadoc
12-16-2012, 02:58 PM
Just a halftime update. I have interjected none of my own thoughts here; just pointing out what others think.

A long pass by Luck should have been anticipated with little time on the clock and being far behind. Kubiak won't follow suit though.

Seriously, our hurry up offense consists of throwing short passes over the middle?

Why not go for a TD?

fcuk this underneath scared shiit,,,, take a shot...

Wow. A full compliment of time outs and all this short pass (now that we don't want the short pass) up the middle crap is killing us.

I have never seen Kubes call this bad a game. And that's saying a lot.

fcuk this underneath scared shiit,,,, take a shot...

why dont we take a few shots ? i hate this conservative ass play calling. And BTW besides AJ our offense has looked horrible, Foster is no where to be seen.

76 shine some light on how this is fosters best season ever again please :wadepalm:

LOL.. this is kubiaks MO. scared pusssy football. no risk, no reward.

Not surprised. Whole entire drive was a waste of time.

As I expected, Kubiak didn't make a legit attempt to score.

What a surprise, poor clock management again.

As I expected, Kubiak didn't make a legit attempt to score.

What a surprise, poor clock management again.

He settled for a 49 yard field goal with a kicker that is just not that reliable.

Three timeouts. Why not go for the TD or...I don't know....a shorter fuccin field goal.

Where do I get in line for soap?
**** kubiak! ou have dennys menu with plays and you settle for a fg try with a crappy kicker.

Yeah last week was pretty bad. He is trying hard to duplicate it yet he is going to chew the players out after the game. Kubiak needs to take a hard look in the mirror. I am starting to sour on him.

Poor clock management.

And I still get grief for my sig every so often...

People are pointing out problems that have been around for years. Scroll back to the beginning of the thread.

NitroGSXR
12-16-2012, 03:04 PM
I have not posted on here for some time. Therefore, I need to provide some background. In the past, I have been very critical of Kubiak.

Having said that, we are sitting at 11-2. The two losses this team have suffered this season are very similar. Both teams that beat the Texans this year have elite QBs and they jumped on the Texans defense early. Meanwhile, the Texans offense was ineffective early against a middle of the pack defense.

I am by no means a fan of Kubiak, and I will not say I am wrong about him until the Texans bring home the Lombardi Trophy.

Kubiak is a good coach, but has areas of improvement that I believe he can resolve. The key is the Texans organization recognizing that and making sure Kubiak improves his coaching where it is needed.

We have gone too far and improved too much to act rash at this point.

Nice to see you are still around!

AMartin56
12-16-2012, 03:14 PM
Kubiak is the original gutless wonder. His lack of aggression is going to cost us. Third and goal from what...the 13? And we run a draw play? You're already in FG range..why not take a shot? Can't you trust your veteran QB to NOT throw a pick or take a sack in that situation?

The Colts are starting to gash our D...we'll need to score more than 23 to win. Hell their offense has more points than ours does at this point !

thunderkyss
12-16-2012, 03:17 PM
Just a halftime update. I have interjected none of my own thoughts here; just pointing out what others think.


People are pointing out problems that have been around for years. Scroll back to the beginning of the thread.

I don't know what your point is. It's the same people that have always said the same thing.

& there's nothing like a game day thread to bring out the knee jerk reactions of some of the most negative fans. Not one of those guys has expressed any real joy in this team being 11-2 & leading the race for HFThroughout.

ObsiWan
12-21-2012, 09:37 PM
That is absolutely no reason to be excusing player performance. I've seen that response come up every single time we have this never ending proverbial players vs. coaches debate, and I think it's weak. The players need to be held just as accountable as the coaches. To only point a finger at the coaches, screams "quick fix". And quick fixes do not exist.

And that falls flat when you consider what choices he had at that particular time. When Ben Jones, the rookie, wasn't getting the job done, who did he have an an alternative at the time. When he using Jacoby Jones at the time, what was his alternative, at the time? Just a little bit too much second guessing born out of hindsight, but I realize by now, this is the way it works. Monday morning quarterbacking reigning supreme.

Couldn't have said it better myself.
Thank you.

ObsiWan
12-21-2012, 09:41 PM
I don't know what your point is. It's the same people that have always said the same thing.

& there's nothing like a game day thread to bring out the knee jerk reactions of some of the most negative fans. Not one of those guys has expressed any real joy in this team being 11-2 & leading the race for HFThroughout.

:clap:

Thorn
12-21-2012, 10:49 PM
No matter what the Texans do this year, even if they win the Super Bowl, there is always that great big shadow that Wade casts over Kubiak as to the over all performance of the team.

But no matter. As has been said a thousand times here, we have the best offensive and defense coordinators in the league. Just so happens our offensive coordinator also sits in the head coaches seat.

Corrosion
12-22-2012, 07:05 AM
No matter what the Texans do this year, even if they win the Super Bowl, there is always that great big shadow that Wade casts over Kubiak as to the over all performance of the team.

But no matter. As has been said a thousand times here, we have the best offensive and defense coordinators in the league. Just so happens our offensive coordinator also sits in the head coaches seat.

Either one or both of Wade's defense and Kubiak's offense have looked average ... since they beat the Ravens. To be honest , I think thats the only complete game they have played all season.


We can use injuries as an excuse , but Im just callin it how I see it. They have generally done just enough to win the rest of those in the W column and got b!tchslapped by the Packers and Patriots.

Im begining to think that the offenses problems are QB related .... They may be 3rd in the entire league in ppg scored , but I think they have left a multitude of points on the field , case in point 5 field goals in six attempts against the Dolts who are 9th worst in points allowed.

Thorn
12-22-2012, 08:03 AM
Either one or both of Wade's defense and Kubiak's offense have looked average ... since they beat the Ravens. To be honest , I think thats the only complete game they have played all season.


We can use injuries as an excuse , but Im just callin it how I see it. They have generally done just enough to win the rest of those in the W column and got b!tchslapped by the Packers and Patriots.

Im begining to think that the offenses problems are QB related .... They may be 3rd in the entire league in ppg scored , but I think they have left a multitude of points on the field , case in point 5 field goals in six attempts against the Dolts who are 9th worst in points allowed.

Agreed in that they haven't looked as good lately as they did earlier in the season. But except for those two eggs they laid, they do keep winning. And in the end, that's all that counts. Let's see what AP does to us on Sunday, that'll tell us a lot if they can hold him to under 150 yards and win the game.

76Texan
12-22-2012, 08:19 AM
Let's fire Kubiak.
Let's rebuild.
Let's make this thread 100 page long before the game starts.
Let's build up some momentum here so that it will reach 200 pages by the end of the game.

:fans::chili:

OK, I'm going to catch a little more sleep now.

:ahhaha::hides:

thunderkyss
12-22-2012, 10:24 AM
No matter what the Texans do this year, even if they win the Super Bowl, there is always that great big shadow that Wade casts over Kubiak as to the over all performance of the team.


If you go back & look at Wade's history & the basis of his sophomore "curse" I think the argument could be made that Kubiak has made him better as well. & if Wade has come to the point where he would not seek another HC gig, then Kubiak as a HC, a team builder, a bringer togetherer, takes another step in the right direction and Wade's shadow only looms ominous in the minds of those that hate Kubiak.


We can use injuries as an excuse , but Im just callin it how I see it. They have generally done just enough to win the rest of those in the W column and got b!tchslapped by the Packers and Patriots.


I don't even think about the Packers game. I know the similarity between it & the Patriots game makes it difficult to ignore, but it happened so early in the season I don't believe it is relevant to "who" this team is.

As far as "doing just enough to win" I don't know if that's a bad thing. From a fan's pov, I would like to see us blow out inferior teams, but does that really make us a better team?

I still think it is silly to think we can get into a shootout with New England, Denver, Green Bay, or New Orleans & expect to win. At best, our odds are less than 50/50. Controlling the ball, metriculating down the field & capping drives with scores is the only way to get the odds in our favor. That's what we have to do, I think. That's what we need to be working on & get proficient at before we get to the post season.

That game plan got us 43 points against the Ravens, had us at 21-9 against the Broncos, got us to 12-2 more or less. Sometimes it looked ugly & against the elite, inept. But changing who we are won't make us better at what we want to do.

Yes, we should have scored more against the 21st ranked scoring defense. Yes 1 for 6 is a problem. Now is the time to address those problems. Not try to hide them. Hopefully our redzone success will improve versus Minnesota. Hopefully our starters will play two series against the Colts & score TDs on both drives (that's the only way I think we can call it improvement against the Colts).

If we can't do it in the regular season, chances aren't good for us to get it done in the post season.

ChampionTexan
12-22-2012, 11:27 AM
No matter what the Texans do this year, even if they win the Super Bowl, there is always that great big shadow that Wade casts over Kubiak as to the over all performance of the team.

But no matter. As has been said a thousand times here, we have the best offensive and defense coordinators in the league. Just so happens our offensive coordinator also sits in the head coaches seat.

Bill Parcells regular season record as HC was 117-73-1 when Bill Belicheck was on his staff (Giants, Patriots, Jets). His playoff record was 11-5. He won two Super Bowls, and went to a third.

Bill Parcells regular season record as HC was 55-57 when Bill Belicheck wasn't on his staff (Patriots, Cowboys). He went to the playoffs twice in seven seasons, and went 0-2 in those two appearances.

If it takes Wade to get Gary over the hump, I can live with that. I'm guessing Gary will be able to also.

coltfan123
12-22-2012, 11:40 AM
If you go back & look at Wade's history & the basis of his sophomore "curse" I think the argument could be made that Kubiak has made him better as well. & if Wade has come to the point where he would not seek another HC gig, then Kubiak as a HC, a team builder, a bringer togetherer, takes another step in the right direction and Wade's shadow only looms ominous in the minds of those that hate Kubiak.



I don't even think about the Packers game. I know the similarity between it & the Patriots game makes it difficult to ignore, but it happened so early in the season I don't believe it is relevant to "who" this team is.

As far as "doing just enough to win" I don't know if that's a bad thing. From a fan's pov, I would like to see us blow out inferior teams, but does that really make us a better team?

I still think it is silly to think we can get into a shootout with New England, Denver, Green Bay, or New Orleans & expect to win. At best, our odds are less than 50/50. Controlling the ball, metriculating down the field & capping drives with scores is the only way to get the odds in our favor. That's what we have to do, I think. That's what we need to be working on & get proficient at before we get to the post season.

That game plan got us 43 points against the Ravens, had us at 21-9 against the Broncos, got us to 12-2 more or less. Sometimes it looked ugly & against the elite, inept. But changing who we are won't make us better at what we want to do.

Yes, we should have scored more against the 21st ranked scoring defense. Yes 1 for 6 is a problem. Now is the time to address those problems. Not try to hide them. Hopefully our redzone success will improve versus Minnesota. Hopefully our starters will play two series against the Colts & score TDs on both drives (that's the only way I think we can call it improvement against the Colts).

If we can't do it in the regular season, chances aren't good for us to get it done in the post season.

LAst year texans self imploded and noone thought texans would beat bengals..they gave the first win to my winless colts...but moment playoff starts **** got real lol...i dont expect texans to lay over and die and i do beleive they are holding back some plays as far as coaching goes

thunderkyss
12-22-2012, 11:52 AM
LAst year texans self imploded and noone thought texans would beat bengals..they gave the first win to my winless colts...but moment playoff starts **** got real lol...i dont expect texans to lay over and die and i do beleive they are holding back some plays as far as coaching goes

I don't know that we're holding anything back, I think they are being extremely particular about what they want to do. Things we need to be really good at to go where we want to go.

But like you said, scit gets real in the play-offs & we'll do what we need to do to win.

The Pencil Neck
12-22-2012, 06:12 PM
Either one or both of Wade's defense and Kubiak's offense have looked average ... since they beat the Ravens. To be honest , I think thats the only complete game they have played all season.


We can use injuries as an excuse , but Im just callin it how I see it. They have generally done just enough to win the rest of those in the W column and got b!tchslapped by the Packers and Patriots.

Im begining to think that the offenses problems are QB related .... They may be 3rd in the entire league in ppg scored , but I think they have left a multitude of points on the field , case in point 5 field goals in six attempts against the Dolts who are 9th worst in points allowed.

If you're doing "just enough to win", you don't win by 12 points. Five of our 12 wins have been by 1 score. That means 7 of them are by 2 scores.

Have we left a multitude of points on the field? Well, we did in the Colts game and we still won by 2 scores.

When you suck, you can't win by kicking field goals. It's not a winning strategy. You've got to take more risks to convert those field goals to TDs. You can't afford to leave those points on the field. When you take those risks, they can backfire on you.

But if you have a good defense, you CAN win by kicking field goals. If your offense is scoring on most of its possessions, you can afford for some of those possessions to be field goals especially if your defense is getting stops on the other team. Most of the teams in the top 10 of field goal attempts are winning teams and most of the teams in the bottom 10 of field goal attempts are cellar dwellers.

The main thing is to get points when you can and trust your defense to stop the other team. That might sound conservative but conservative wins if you've got a good team.

EllisUnit
12-22-2012, 07:19 PM
TBH i just want to see some creativeness sometimes. Fake put, hand it to foster, where he pitches to schaub and jits AJ deep. Something anything out of Kubes comfort zone.

The Pencil Neck
12-22-2012, 07:41 PM
TBH i just want to see some creativeness sometimes. Fake put, hand it to foster, where he pitches to schaub and jits AJ deep. Something anything out of Kubes comfort zone.

Like a half-back pass?

Texan_Bill
12-22-2012, 07:45 PM
My obligatory:


http://bfolder.ru/_ph/17/2/291516146.jpg

False Start
12-22-2012, 07:49 PM
My obligatory:


http://bfolder.ru/_ph/17/2/291516146.jpg

Beat me to it. :littlelol:

ChampionTexan
12-22-2012, 07:49 PM
TBH i just want to see some creativeness sometimes. Fake put, hand it to foster, where he pitches to schaub and jits AJ deep. Something anything out of Kubes comfort zone.

Like a half-back pass?

Nice point. Seems to me, creative is when you need it. We won 12 games so far without needing to be particularly creative (Sounds like something Vince Lombardi would approve of - doesn't it), and we lost two games where all the creativity in the world wouldn't have changed squat.

The first thing I think of these days when I hear the word creative is the Saints on-sides kick to start the second half of their Super Bowl. It very very well could have been the difference between them winning and losing that game. We have yet to be in an even remotely similar situation this season.

Texan_Bill
12-22-2012, 07:52 PM
Beat me to it. :littlelol:

Same 'ol, same 'ol, Bro!!!

AggiebyMarriage
12-22-2012, 07:56 PM
I agree, Kubiak should call Something Wild and Crazy Plays! Some plays that catches the other team by surprise. I love it!!

Do you know what would be even better, Kubiak should call a a play like that when they least expect it. Like when the Texans are backed up on their goal line. That's what that Dunderhead Kubiak should do.

WOW, wouldn't it be great if he just had a little imagination like that great offensive play caller Jerry Glanville showed with his STAGGER LEE call in 1987. :wadepalm:

Ya, that is how you win Playoff Games, call some plays like the Stagger Lee!

Come on Kubiak, get out of your comfort zone. WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG!!!

EllisUnit
12-23-2012, 10:10 AM
Nice point. Seems to me, creative is when you need it. We won 12 games so far without needing to be particularly creative (Sounds like something Vince Lombardi would approve of - doesn't it), and we lost two games where all the creativity in the world wouldn't have changed squat.

The first thing I think of these days when I hear the word creative is the Saints on-sides kick to start the second half of their Super Bowl. It very very well could have been the difference between them winning and losing that game. We have yet to be in an even remotely similar situation this season.

Even when we had our 6-10 season did we do anything out of the norm ??? Just saying stuff like that makes it exciting sometimes and pretty much every other NFL team has done some kind of trick play this season, we havent done one in god knows how long.

Yes i know we are winning and love it, just think that sometimes we need to spice it up. If anything make it more for the players, cause you know they have fun doing that stuff.

76Texan
12-23-2012, 10:41 AM
Does Kubiak get fired by halftime or by game end?
Any prediction?:kitten::koolaid:

EllisUnit
12-23-2012, 10:43 AM
Does Kubiak get fired by halftime or by game end?
Any prediction?:kitten::koolaid:

when he dies, I like Kubiak in all honesty. Just wish he would stray from his comfort zone for even 1 play per season haha

76Texan
12-23-2012, 10:51 AM
when he dies, I like Kubiak in all honesty. Just wish he would stray from his comfort zone for even 1 play per season haha

He gave Holliday a conditional green light. :overreact:

EllisUnit
12-23-2012, 11:24 AM
He gave Holliday a conditional green light. :overreact:

Haha well thats def not what i mean. He also gave Carr 1 season to long.

qqert
12-23-2012, 04:08 PM
Wonderful game planning by Kubiak today.
Absolutely dominant offense, spectacular coaching!

76Texan
12-23-2012, 04:37 PM
Wonderful game planning by Kubiak today.
Absolutely dominant offense, spectacular coaching!

Where have you been?

I've been waiting for you all day. :good:

qqert
12-23-2012, 04:40 PM
Where have you been?

I've been waiting for you all day. :good:

im heading down to galveston, gonna look for another turtle!
gonna need it if we are going to the supabowl!
two turtle heads better than one!

or better yet a two headed turtle!

http://oddanimals.com/images/Two-Headed-Turtle1.jpg

EllisUnit
12-23-2012, 04:42 PM
Wonderful game planning by Kubiak today.
Absolutely dominant offense, spectacular coaching!

Agree man, noone could of called a better game than Kubiak did today. What an offensive genius............. :kitten:

Textan
12-23-2012, 04:45 PM
Seriously, Kubiak could have winning season from here until eternity "never obtaining an AFC championship title or Super Bowl win" and he'll never get the boot. Many fans would kill just to have a winning team. Of course to me this isn't enough, but it's the truth.

76Texan
12-23-2012, 04:49 PM
im heading down to galveston, gonna look for another turtle!
gonna need it if we are going to the supabowl!
two turtle heads better than one!

or better yet a two headed turtle!

http://oddanimals.com/images/Two-Headed-Turtle1.jpg

I don't know how you can say that the play calling was turtle.
We look to go downfield and we mix up our blitzing and coverage.

Now I can understand blaming the result, but to say the play calling was turtle?
Come on dawg!

TexCanada
12-23-2012, 04:51 PM
Seriously, Kubiak could have winning season from here until eternity "never obtaining an AFC championship title or Super Bowl win" and he'll never get the boot. Many fans would kill just to have a winning team. Of course to me this isn't enough, but it's the truth.

That's a ridiculous statement. Nobody is on here saying that Kubiak should have an unlimited leash.

IlliniJen
12-23-2012, 04:53 PM
Today's Kubiak play-calling Denny's menu contained two things: run up the gut for no gain and Moons Over My Hammy.

Say Watt
12-23-2012, 04:53 PM
Our offensive guru of a head coach has like 3 offensive TDs in the last 4 weeks or something like that.

Needless to say, I am off the Kubiak bandwagon. I jumped back on to be a good little Texan and support our whole team, but no longer.

Kubiak needs to go.

We have 1st and goal on the 1 and he passes twice, doesn't utilize the best goal line back in the NFL this year, refuses to run any no huddle even though it has been extremely effective the few times we have run it, runs the ball on 1st down with about 5 minutes left in the game, poor clock management, etc.

Gary Kubiak is NOT an NFL head coach. We don't show up for big games

76Texan
12-23-2012, 05:02 PM
Our offensive guru of a head coach has like 3 offensive TDs in the last 4 weeks or something like that.

Needless to say, I am off the Kubiak bandwagon. I jumped back on to be a good little Texan and support our whole team, but no longer.

Kubiak needs to go.

We have 1st and goal on the 1 and he passes twice, doesn't utilize the best goal line back in the NFL this year, refuses to run any no huddle even though it has been extremely effective the few times we have run it, runs the ball on 1st down with about 5 minutes left in the game, poor clock management, etc.

Gary Kubiak is NOT an NFL head coach. We don't show up for big gamesBut a lot of people want him to call pass plays near the goal line.

mariowillshine15
12-23-2012, 05:04 PM
I guess he's saving all the good plays for the playoffs.

Say Watt
12-23-2012, 05:50 PM
But a lot of people want him to call pass plays near the goal line.

Could you direct me to those people so I can punch them in the face?

thunderkyss
12-23-2012, 07:43 PM
I can't put this on Kubiak. The plays were there.

Something is wrong with his offense no doubt about that & as HC/OC, it falls on him to figure it out & fix it. 4 games now.... should have been fixed by now.

However, he wasn't fired after going 9-7. He tried his damdest but didn't get fired after 6-10. He's not going to get fired after going 12-4

Say Watt
12-23-2012, 07:56 PM
I can't put this on Kubiak. The plays were there.

Something is wrong with his offense no doubt about that & as HC/OC, it falls on him to figure it out & fix it. 4 games now.... should have been fixed by now.

However, he wasn't fired after going 9-7. He tried his damdest but didn't get fired after 6-10. He's not going to get fired after going 12-4

This was where I was... 1-2 games ago. But after today, I can't just continue saying, "Oh the offense was just out of sync." Look, the defense struggling I understand. Losing Cushing is a huge blow as it effects our pass rush, coverage, and run D as Cush is good to great in all those areas for his position. But what the offense is doing (or not doing) is inexcusable. Week after week they just look out of sync and that falls on the head coach.

The fact is our D is not where it was at the beginning of the year. So if this team is a Super Bowl team, then this offense needs to start carrying the team. And that falls on our offensive guru Gary Kubiak. He also just so happens to be the head coach.

A team with Arian Foster, Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, James Casey, Duane Brown, and Chris Myers (all considered to be Pro Bowl capable players at their positions) should not be struggling like this! The play calling is predictable. The blocking is not getting it done. And our passing game has got to get it together. Why do we only throw to James Casey once a game? Where was Graham? Did Jean make Kubiak's **** list?

Something is going on with this team, and the first place to look is at the top.

thunderkyss
12-23-2012, 08:02 PM
This was where I was... 1-2 games ago. But after today, I can't just continue saying, "Oh the offense was just out of sync." Look, the defense struggling I understand. Losing Cushing is a huge blow as it effects our pass rush, coverage, and run D as Cush is good to great in all those areas for his position. But what the offense is doing (or not doing) is inexcusable. Week after week they just look out of sync and that falls on the head coach.


I think I said it wrong. I do blame Kubiak for not fixing this funk. I'm just not blaming the play-calls. The plays were there, they just didn't get it done.

Say Watt
12-23-2012, 08:14 PM
I think I said it wrong. I do blame Kubiak for not fixing this funk. I'm just not blaming the play-calls. The plays were there, they just didn't get it done.

1st and goal at the 1. You have to have a TD. It keeps you in the game. You have 4 downs to punch it in. K.I.S.S.

Run The Football. All four downs. If you can't get 1 yard in 4 downs, you don't deserve to be on the football field with your opponent.

Hervoyel
12-23-2012, 08:41 PM
1st and goal at the 1. You have to have a TD. It keeps you in the game. You have 4 downs to punch it in. K.I.S.S.

Run The Football. All four downs. If you can't get 1 yard in 4 downs, you don't deserve to be on the football field with your opponent.

This. The moment the game did not become 16-10 at the conclusion of that series the game was over.

Ryan
12-23-2012, 08:49 PM
This just in...Kubiak played some Madden after the game and punted on 4th and 1.

Nawzer
12-23-2012, 08:54 PM
As good as the Texans offense can be, I sometimes feel like it's kind of like a slow plodding and old fashioned offense. No doubt, when its working it's darn near unstoppable but a lot of things have to go right before it hits full speed. In today's NFL you see a lot of fast offenses that go out there and score quickly or move the chains easily when needed. All the great offenses like the Packers and Patriots have this capability to move the ball fast without having to set things up and waiting for that exact right moment to get the big plays. Part of the problem is Matt Schaub who's not fleet of foot and seems to have developed a fear of getting hit (who can really blame him after losing part of his ear???). The offense as it is right now is in trouble if the running game isn't going. It's not flexible enough to adjust on the fly imo. You can cite the Lions or Jags game as proof that we can air it out, but that's just no our thing and we cannot sustain that kind of offense for an extended period of time and expect to win games. One of things Kubiak, Dennision, and Rick Smith have to work on this offseason is to change the offense up a bit and add some new wrinkles to it. I don't know why we moved away from giving Keyshawn Martin the ball because he's the kind of guy who can move the chains and give the offense a dynamism it's sorely lacking. I thought David Anderson was a valuable guy on this offense and we're missing out on the types of plays those smaller receivers can make. Also, a bigger tight end would be nice to give Schaub a bigger target and even though OD is great, he's more a middle of the field receiver. Kubiak will not be fired so the best we can hope for as fans is that the offense will evolve and not be so one dimensional.

coltfan123
12-23-2012, 08:55 PM
I guess he's saving all the good plays for the playoffs.

hope thats sarcasm lol

Corrosion
12-24-2012, 04:23 AM
I can't put this on Kubiak. The plays were there.

Something is wrong with his offense no doubt about that & as HC/OC, it falls on him to figure it out & fix it. 4 games now.... should have been fixed by now.

However, he wasn't fired after going 9-7. He tried his damdest but didn't get fired after 6-10. He's not going to get fired after going 12-4

The OL got their asses handed to them all game long and the Vikings did it with their front four for the most part.


Schaub .... 18/32 , he just didnt look right at all. He looks like he's playing scared of getting hurt and scared to make a mistake. Just too damn conservative .... Has been that way pretty much all season. He also left a few plays on the field with poor reads.
His lack of mobility (elusiveness) just doesnt allow him to extend plays when protection breaks down.

If you told me AP would only gain 86 yards , I'd have thought the Texans won going away.

Looked like only one guy showed up to play on offense today .... #80.

Ive been a defender of Schaub for a while , but that support is begining to fade ..... He better get his sh!t together or else that deep playoff run we all expected might turn into one and done , homefield or not.

otisbean
12-24-2012, 07:26 AM
I would agree, horrible job by the OL today and Schaub hasn't looked like himself lately at all.

MasterCush
12-24-2012, 07:39 AM
The OL got their asses handed to them all game long and the Vikings did it with their front four for the most part.


Schaub .... 18/32 , he just didnt look right at all. He looks like he's playing scared of getting hurt and scared to make a mistake. Just too damn conservative .... Has been that way pretty much all season. He also left a few plays on the field with poor reads.
His lack of mobility (elusiveness) just doesnt allow him to extend plays when protection breaks down.

If you told me AP would only gain 86 yards , I'd have thought the Texans won going away.

Looked like only one guy showed up to play on offense today .... #80.

Ive been a defender of Schaub for a while , but that support is begining to fade ..... He better get his sh!t together or else that deep playoff run we all expected might turn into one and done , homefield or not.

Thank you for summarizing all my thoughts for me exactly. I thought Schaub could be the one, but now I have serious doubts. Everything you said, I agree with whole-heartely.

Bulls on Parade
12-24-2012, 07:41 AM
Matt Schaub looks slower than ever in the pocket. Do you guys think a more mobile quarterback would better utilize our offense like Robert Griffin III does in Washington or Russell Wilson does in Seattle?

T.J. Yates immediately came into the game and made a nice pass on the run that Schaub would have otherwise been sacked on. Unfortunately Yates is not a very good passer, in terms of accuracy, and threw an interception not long after. The Texans future quarterback is playing at Texas A&M right now. I want some Johnny Football in a few years.

I still want to see Matt Schaub win a Super Bowl this year. He better elevate his game and not look so damn slow in the pocket. At least move around and avoid the pressure like Tony Romo does in Dallas. I don't even think Romo is that great but he somehow is able to avoid the pass rush with a worse offensive line than what the Texans have.

It's all on number 8 right now, IMO... If he keeps playing like crap we have zero chance to win.

Trail.Blazr
12-24-2012, 08:09 AM
That's a ridiculous statement. Nobody is on here saying that Kubiak should have an unlimited leash.

Nobody on here holds the leash. I wouldn't say it's too ridiculous. While we can elect to disagree with the notion, there's some foundation that would support the opinion that Kubiak has the benefit of time on his side.

thunderkyss
12-24-2012, 11:09 AM
The OL got their asses handed to them all game long and the Vikings did it with their front four for the most part.


Schaub .... 18/32 , he just didnt look right at all. He looks like he's playing scared of getting hurt and scared to make a mistake. Just too damn conservative .... Has been that way pretty much all season. He also left a few plays on the field with poor reads.
His lack of mobility (elusiveness) just doesnt allow him to extend plays when protection breaks down.


I agree with everything you're saying here. My response was really a "I don't blame the play-calling" reply. He could have called a perfect game & the issues you mentioned would have still been there.

Porky
12-24-2012, 11:44 AM
Should have run 4 straight times inside the one. Schaub isn't Tom Brady and as other have said if you can't punch it in with 4 tries from 2 ft out, then you might as well just pack it up and go home.

When the offense is clicking, it's because the running game is clicking and the play action keeps the D honest, so Schaub (aka Statue) can operate. Once he is pushed off his mark with any consistency and he becomes the focal point of the offense, he sucks. In short, he is a complimentary player who is pretty good under ideal circumstances, but he isn't and never will be a guy who takes the other 10 guys on his shoulder and will his team to a win.

And while we are on the subject, let's put part of the blame on the inept offense at the feet of Rick Smith. The genius that blew up the right side of the line. Ryan Harris is a joke. He shouldn't be on an NFL team. I haven't seen that poor of RT play since our inaugural season or two. Newton is barely passable and MIGHT be a good tackle some day, but not yet. At least he has some tools to work with and is adequate. The RG guard play has been uninspiring and inconsistent. Again, some youngsters with tools there but this should be a learning year for them.

All you people bitching about the Caveman. I have news for you. We went from the Caveman to the Geico caveman. You got your wish, so a pox on all your houses.

Lastly, outside of Andre, we have nobody on offense that the D truly fears. Foster? Nope, not this year. He is very average at best this year. OD is a good pass catching TE but he isn't dynamic. They've spent years using high draft picks and FA signings to bolster the D. Addition by subtraction on the right side of the line? Nope.

We need a dynamic player somewhere else on offense. We need help on the right side of the line. These need to be high priorities this coming off-season.

Lastly, do we need to consider taking a QB high or trading for a up and comer we can groom? Schaub was already a statue and now post injury he looks like he is literally buried in concrete. I wonder what this offense could do with a John Elway "style" athlete back there. Not a running QB per se, but someone mobile that can move around, avoid the rush, make plays with his feet etc.

El Tejano
12-24-2012, 04:38 PM
Can we also bring up the fact that none of our receivers tend to get away from a team that's got decent DBs. Everyone save for Daniels and AJ can't get open enough and Schaub has to hold on to the ball.

Corrosion
12-24-2012, 10:00 PM
I agree with everything you're saying here. My response was really a "I don't blame the play-calling" reply. He could have called a perfect game & the issues you mentioned would have still been there.

I was more or less agreeing with you .... Just went into detail on why and that the playcalling is limited because of the QB's limitations.

Think about when the last time you saw a seam route ~30 yards downfield (that doesnt have a lot of air under it), the type of pass that has to have some real zip on it.

If Schaub is throwing more than 25 yards down field , more than likely the ball has a lot of air under it. He really cant take advantage of recievers creating seperation on those longer routes but rather tends to throw to a spot that only the reciever can make a play. Not that this is a bad thing , just that he doesnt have the arm to take advantage of some situations.

Corrosion
12-24-2012, 10:02 PM
Should have run 4 straight times inside the one. Schaub isn't Tom Brady and as other have said if you can't punch it in with 4 tries from 2 ft out, then you might as well just pack it up and go home.



Hell Like Tom Landry said , If we cant get one yard (on one play), we dont deserve to be called contenders.

Mr. Texan
12-30-2012, 03:49 PM
kubiak brought in frank bush

kubiak brought in joe marciano

kubiak stuck with schaub (for you schaub haters)

hmm...

eriadoc
12-30-2012, 03:56 PM
This team was 11-1. 12-4 feels good, huh?

CretorFrigg
12-30-2012, 04:04 PM
Pathetic.

RTP2110
12-30-2012, 04:27 PM
I realized something just now.

There's a common complaint about Matt Schaub that goes something like this: He's a really good QB if everything around him is perfect. If things break down and it is up to him to make the difference he can't do it, and that's what holds him back from being elite.

Today I realized that Gary Kubiak is the exact same guy! It hit me when someone was defending Kubiak with a bunch of excuses. We lost Cushing, traded Demeco, lost our RG & RT, the new O-line played crappy, Schaub is off. What do you expect Kubiak to do when everyone else is not doing their jobs? Kubiak and Schaub are the same guy. If Kubiak has a team full of stars, great coordinators, and everything is clicking then he's an elite head coach. (Who wouldn't be?) But when things start breaking down and it up to him and his coaching to compensate...it ain't gonna happen.

GP
12-30-2012, 04:37 PM
We're doomed.

Kubiak: long term deal.

Schaub: long term deal.

Bad, BAD decisions.

Both these guys are going to lead us into mediocrity for the next 2 to 4 years.

RCPM
12-30-2012, 04:47 PM
No leadership on offense. I have NO faith in kubes.

Vinny
12-30-2012, 04:49 PM
This team was 11-1. 12-4 feels good, huh?

nothing like a total late season collapse to sooth the savage beast of an NFL fan.

Goatcheese
12-30-2012, 04:57 PM
This team was 11-1. 12-4 feels good, huh?

It's pretty sickening to be honest. There's no excuse for the total collapse at this point in the season.

I'm not going to give up. The playoffs are a whole new season and anything can happen, but I'm not optimistic.

I don't like what I'm looking at.

thunderkyss
12-30-2012, 05:02 PM
We're doomed.

Kubiak: long term deal.

Schaub: long term deal.

Bad, BAD decisions.

Both these guys are going to lead us into mediocrity for the next 2 to 4 years.

Not necessarily. Coaches get fired all the time, regardless of their contract length. The thing hurting us, is that he got this team to the play offs two years in a row. Firing him now would be like firing Dungy from Tampa, or Schotenheimer (sp) from the Chargers. One of those worked out, they replaced Dungy with the guy they needed for that season, but it crashed & burned soon after.

Schaub. Long contract, but only next year is guaranteed. There is nothing stopping us from getting a franchise guy next season, other than a poor QB draft.

If the Texans feel good about Keenum, it wouldn't be a bad idea to throw him out there & see where he takes us. Other than that, they'll have to pick off the FA wire. Kolb? Maybe try to trade. If the Vikings win today, the Bears may want to blow that thing up, could we get Cutler? Or do we can target one of these young back ups.... Cousins.....

I wouldn't necessarily say bad decisions.

eriadoc
12-30-2012, 05:03 PM
This year's (2012) 3rd round in the draft, excerpt:

3 5 68 Devier Posey Texans WR Ohio State
3 6 69 T.J. Graham Bills WR North Carolina State
3 7 70 Bryan Anger Jaguars P California
3 8 71 Josh Leribeus Redskins G Southern Methodist
3 9 72 Olivier Vernon Dolphins DE Miami (FL)
3 10 73 Brandon Taylor Chargers DB Louisiana State
3 11 74 Donald Stephenson Chiefs T Oklahoma
3 12 75 Russell Wilson Seahawks QB Wisconsin
3 13 76 Brandon Brooks Texans G Miami (OH)

Yeah, I know hindsight is 20/20, but most of us hated the Posey pick when it happened and then tried to convince ourselves that Kubiak knew what he was doing. I think it's pretty clear by now that Kubiak wastes either a 2nd or 3rd round pick every year, and sometimes both.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 05:20 PM
This year's (2012) 3rd round in the draft, excerpt:

3 5 68 Devier Posey Texans WR Ohio State
3 6 69 T.J. Graham Bills WR North Carolina State
3 7 70 Bryan Anger Jaguars P California
3 8 71 Josh Leribeus Redskins G Southern Methodist
3 9 72 Olivier Vernon Dolphins DE Miami (FL)
3 10 73 Brandon Taylor Chargers DB Louisiana State
3 11 74 Donald Stephenson Chiefs T Oklahoma
3 12 75 Russell Wilson Seahawks QB Wisconsin
3 13 76 Brandon Brooks Texans G Miami (OH)

Yeah, I know hindsight is 20/20, but most of us hated the Posey pick when it happened and then tried to convince ourselves that Kubiak knew what he was doing. I think it's pretty clear by now that Kubiak wastes either a 2nd or 3rd round pick every year, and sometimes both.

If you want to blame Kubiak for a lot of stuff then fine, but using a "Russell Wilson? reference is not legit. No one knew that Wilson would be as good as he was this season. I'll bag on Kubiak for a lot of things, but I sure as hell won't bag on him or any coach for not picking up Wilson. He was just a nobody QB for the most part where Carroll saw some potential and Carroll capitalized on him.

It was no different then when Kubiak got Foster outside of the draft when no one else saw anything.

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 05:23 PM
Well im officially in....too many issues not addressed that have been going for weeks....

qqert
12-30-2012, 05:27 PM
its a mystery why the offense is full of suck.

http://funny-pictures-blog.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/LOLCats_3.jpg

TEXANRED
12-30-2012, 05:31 PM
Its hard to ignore a Kubiak decision of a QB sneak on 3rd and 2 inside your own 20. That pretty much sums up Kubiaks coaching in a nutshell.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 05:32 PM
Well im officially in....too many issues not addressed that have been going for weeks....

You serious?? Someone steal your account?? Are you willing to agree now that Kubiak has never been the coach that you've believed him to be all these years??

Not trying to be an ass, but I'm shocked.

Tailgate
12-30-2012, 05:33 PM
This is heading towards and quickly turning into a BOB MCNAIR PROBLEM.

Showtime100
12-30-2012, 05:34 PM
For the fifth straight year I say.....fire his ass!

Each year I want this fool gone in the ffseason, each year I'm disappointed and then some. This year is the year!! Eat whatever is on the contract and off this fool.

fiasco west
12-30-2012, 05:35 PM
This year's (2012) 3rd round in the draft, excerpt:

3 5 68 Devier Posey Texans WR Ohio State
3 6 69 T.J. Graham Bills WR North Carolina State
3 7 70 Bryan Anger Jaguars P California
3 8 71 Josh Leribeus Redskins G Southern Methodist
3 9 72 Olivier Vernon Dolphins DE Miami (FL)
3 10 73 Brandon Taylor Chargers DB Louisiana State
3 11 74 Donald Stephenson Chiefs T Oklahoma
3 12 75 Russell Wilson Seahawks QB Wisconsin
3 13 76 Brandon Brooks Texans G Miami (OH)

Yeah, I know hindsight is 20/20, but most of us hated the Posey pick when it happened and then tried to convince ourselves that Kubiak knew what he was doing. I think it's pretty clear by now that Kubiak wastes either a 2nd or 3rd round pick every year, and sometimes both.

I think this team is past hoping some 3rd round pick pans out for them any ways.

Brooks and Posey were always project guys. Who knows what they can become.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 05:35 PM
As I said in the other thread, I wonder why Texans fans aren't calling for Andy Reid. That would definitely seem like something they'd wish for.

fiasco west
12-30-2012, 05:38 PM
As I said in the other thread, I wonder why Texans fans aren't calling for Andy Reid. That would definitely seem like something they'd wish for.

Heh.

I actually wonder how they would feel. Most people here just seem to want to fire someone just to fire them and prove some point. Whose replacing Kubiak? If it's not a guy who has won a superbowl already then no thanks.

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 05:39 PM
You serious?? Someone steal your account?? Are you willing to agree now that Kubiak has never been the coach that you've believed him to be all these years??

Not trying to be an ass, but I'm shocked.

Lol, i wanted to see what he'd look like with a competent defense behind him.....which he now has...and the results as of late tell me that he's not going to be much better.

Why is he still throwing fly routes up to slow as Lestar Jean...

Why are teams still having a field day blitzing us through the A gap after 7 weeks..

Why is our playcalling so predictable...

Why does he continue to trot shayne graham out there for 50 yarders when he knows that this guy is about as reliable from there as the right side of the o-line

Why why why..

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 05:51 PM
Lol, i wanted to see what he'd look like with a competent defense behind him.....which he now has...and the results as of late tell me that he's not going to be much better.

Why is he still throwing fly routes up to slow as Lestar Jean...

Why are teams still having a field day blitzing us through the A gap after 7 weeks..

Why is our playcalling so predictable...

Why does he continue to trot shayne graham out there for 50 yarders when he knows that this guy is about as reliable from there as the right side of the o-line

Why why why..

Problem is that I don't see Kubes going anywhere for at least two years and that's assuming that the Texans have disappointing seasons. I think it would take at least two more for Bob to find someone new.

My worst fear now is that all blame goes on schaub and Bob feels that Gary needs to necessary time to find a young new QB where he latches on all these extra seasons so Gary can acclimate them.

Lucky
12-30-2012, 05:58 PM
My worst fear now is that all blame goes on schaub and Bob feels that Gary needs to necessary time to find a young new QB where he latches on all these extra seasons so Gary can acclimate them.
Well, the Texans do need a young new QB. I don't know about "necessary time"? The QBs coming into the league now are plug and play.

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 06:02 PM
Problem is that I don't see Kubes going anywhere for at least two years and that's assuming that the Texans have disappointing seasons. I think it would take at least two more for Bob to find someone new.

My worst fear now is that all blame goes on schaub and Bob feels that Gary needs to necessary time to find a young new QB where he latches on all these extra seasons so Gary can acclimate them.

Yep......schaub does deserve some of the blame...but this collapse is more on kubiak than anyone else imo....

We've just dropped the ball too many times in big games and in too many areas for him not to be held accountable...

utahmark
12-30-2012, 06:04 PM
Sounds like Andy Reid is available.

Dishman
12-30-2012, 06:05 PM
This is heading towards and quickly turning into a BOB MCNAIR PROBLEM.
We bypassing Rick Smith on the way?

MEGA SWATT
12-30-2012, 06:07 PM
kubes, marciano, and MS need a one way ticket out of Houston. Would be nice if bob mcnair would sell the team to an owner that wants to actually win and not just turn a profit...........

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 06:08 PM
Sounds like Andy Reid is available.

Do not want....id like to see us not pick up a retread....

LonerATO
12-30-2012, 06:08 PM
kubes, marciano, and MS need a one way ticket out of Houston. Would be nice if bob mcnair would sell the team to an owner that wants to actually win and not just turn a profit...........

They are owed a good amount of money.

midway
12-30-2012, 06:10 PM
They are owed a good amount of money.

Sure glad we gave them those extensions. Kubes probably gets a mandatory 2 year extension for getting 2 more regular season wins. Teams can't have confidence in a coach with only 3 years left on his contract he'd practically be a lame duck!

LonerATO
12-30-2012, 06:11 PM
Do not want....id like to see us not pick up a retread....

Have you seen this guys record? I am not advocating hiring the guy, but rest assured that he will be a head coach next year if he wants to be.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

ATXtexanfan
12-30-2012, 06:12 PM
schaubs extension the biggest problem

LonerATO
12-30-2012, 06:12 PM
Sure glad we gave them those extensions. Kubes probably gets a mandatory 2 year extension for getting 2 more regular season wins. Teams can't have confidence in a coach with only 3 years left on his contract he'd practically be a lame duck!

Blame the owner for that one and at the same time McNair could can the whole coaching staff, but he won't.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 06:13 PM
Have you seen this guys record? I am not advocating hiring the guy, but rest assured that he will be a head coach next year if he wants to be.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

Andy Reid is one of the worst gameday coaches of all-time. Yes, worse than Kubiak. He's notorious for it.

Rock N Randy
12-30-2012, 06:14 PM
I'm disappointed and annoyed as well

Coaching is evidently a problem because the whole team is unprepared and out played, coached and out executed.

If we did fire Kubiak... Who would fill his spot and do better?

Honestly the way the team is right now... Prolly better to stick with Kubiak.

Unless there is a younger guy who is willing too gamble and be more of a modern coach unlike Kubiak who is more old fashioned and tranditional.

I do wish we had Chip Kelly and a QB like RG3, Luck, Wilson, or Newton. But...

Outside of Chip Kelly... That's all I can think of.

bckey
12-30-2012, 06:15 PM
Andy Reid is one of the worst gameday coaches of all-time. Yes, worse than Kubiak. He's notorious for it.


Kind of like you are one of the worst gameday posters. You are notorious for it.

Nawzer
12-30-2012, 06:16 PM
Bob McNair won't fire Kubiak. Just accept it. He's going to be here for another 2 years at the very least. I would've given Bruce Arians a look because of the job he did with the Colts this year.

Texecutioner
12-30-2012, 06:17 PM
Andy Reid is one of the worst gameday coaches of all-time. Yes, worse than Kubiak. He's notorious for it.

Sorry, but facts and history proves you to be completely wrong.


Reid may have some things that can be criticized I'll admit, but he's been to 3 straight NFC championships and a SB and barely lost to the dynasty Patriots.

Him and Kubiak aren't even comparable by any stretch. Reid is light years better.

ATXtexanfan
12-30-2012, 06:19 PM
Sorry, but facts and history proves you to be completely wrong.


Reid may have some things that can be criticized I'll admit, but he's been to 3 straight NFC championships and a SB and barely lost to the dynasty Patriots.

Him and Kubiak aren't even comparable by any stretch. Reid is light years better.

umm reid made a bad decision at qb, remind you of anyone? reid won as much as kubiak, nothing

Mr teX
12-30-2012, 06:19 PM
Have you seen this guys record? I am not advocating hiring the guy, but rest assured that he will be a head coach next year if he wants to be.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/coaches/ReidAn0.htm

That record is mostly when he had mcnabb at qb and johnson at d-coordinator....both of whom were elites at their respective jobs for a time

As soon as those guys left..(R.I.P. jim johnson)...andy reid looked like crap....and was fired...the mere fact that he tried to pass off his o-line coach as a d-coordinator should be enough to disqualify him all together

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 06:20 PM
Kind of like you are one of the worst gameday posters. You are notorious for it.

Exactly!

Sorry, but facts and history proves you to be completely wrong.


Reid may have some things that can be criticized I'll admit, but he's been to 3 straight NFC championships and a SB and barely lost to the dynasty Patriots.

Him and Kubiak aren't even comparable by any stretch. Reid is light years better.

Indeed he's been to many NFC Championship Games. But talk to Eagles fans. They'll explain how much of a disaster Andy Reid is on gameday. His game management is beyond atrocious. They're dancing in the streets today that he's been fired.

utahmark
12-30-2012, 06:21 PM
Andy Reid is one of the worst gameday coaches of all-time. Yes, worse than Kubiak. He's notorious for it.

I'm not sure how you can say that. I wouldn't want to get rid of Kubiak unless we had a "sure fire" better option. If we lose in the first round and Reid was available I would consider that as an upgrade.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 06:22 PM
I'm not sure how you can say that.

Then you should learn about why I say that. Go talk to Eagles fans.

LonerATO
12-30-2012, 06:22 PM
Bob McNair won't fire Kubiak. Just accept it. He's going to be here for another 2 years at the very least. I would've given Bruce Arians a look because of the job he did with the Colts this year.

I could see him getting serious consideration for a head coaching spot.

houstonspartan
12-30-2012, 06:23 PM
This team needs to get it together BEFORE JJ Watt's next contract is up for renewal. It's a couple of years away, but, it's hanging over this team like the sword of Damocles.

Bob McNair is going to toss open the bank vault for JJ Watt, and the coaches are going to have to adjust with the cap space, etc. This is going to make the next two drafts - and coaching - CRUCIAL.

The truth is, a lot of our talented players will have to go to make room for JJ.

Mr. Texan
12-30-2012, 06:24 PM
Exactly!



Indeed he's been to many NFC Championship Games. But talk to Eagles fans. They'll explain how much of a disaster Andy Reid is on gameday. His game management is beyond atrocious. They're dancing in the streets today that he's been fired.

tbh eagles fans are ungrateful pieces of **** who won't like anyone that doesn't get them that championship they desperately want.

utahmark
12-30-2012, 06:25 PM
Then you should learn about why I say that. Go talk to Eagles fans.

No thanks. I think I trust myself more.

fiasco west
12-30-2012, 06:28 PM
I'm not sure how you can say that. I wouldn't want to get rid of Kubiak unless we had a "sure fire" better option. If we lose in the first round and Reid was available I would consider that as an upgrade.

I'm not sure about upgrade. Side-grade at best. Going by the past few years Kubiak has been the better HC if you ask me.

That Eagles team was supposed to be the 'Dream Team' and more than a few folks thought that. On paper they are supposed to be a team competing for HFA but in reality they are far far from that and have been under performing.

I'm all for getting rid of Kubiak if you can bring in a proven coach that has won championship/s sure.

TheMatrix31
12-30-2012, 06:28 PM
No thanks. I think I trust myself more.

Well okay then. It's no wonder why you think Andy Reid is an upgrade, then.

Nawzer
12-30-2012, 06:32 PM
I could see him getting serious consideration for a head coaching spot.

The sad thing is we are a good team with some problems and not a bad teams with really big problems. I feel like our offensive woes are mainly due to how inflexible we are on offense and that falls squarely on Kubiak's shoulders. Having a QB who's clearly on the downslide of his career doesn't help either. If Kubiak has any intelligence he has to realize that his offense needs tweaking to make it more fast. He needs put players into better positions to make plays for us. Right now it's AJ and that's it. If AJ is not making plays we would be a terrible passing offense. Unfortunately, I think Kubiak is too hard headed to make any sort of change and he's probably afraid of making any changes at this point.

utahmark
12-30-2012, 06:37 PM
Well okay then. It's no wonder why you think Andy Reid is an upgrade, then.

Or maybe I know some Eagles fans? Does not matter, we just finished with a 12 and 4 record. That's the best record for a Houston pro team since I was born. Kubiak will be here and it's hard to argue with his recent success. The end of this season has left a bad taste in everybody's mouth. I'm feed up with it and I have more patience than most of you guys.

Lucky
12-30-2012, 06:41 PM
Kubiak will be here...
Yes he will. This just a place for some to vent.

thunderkyss
12-30-2012, 09:31 PM
You serious?? Someone steal your account?? Are you willing to agree now that Kubiak has never been the coach that you've believed him to be all these years??



Well, who did we think he could be?

I think he was probably the best coach we could have hoped for, for this organization, when we got him. We had Bob McNair & all he knew about football was what Dan Reeves & Charlie Casserly was telling him.

This organization was a joke when he got here & now, it is what McNair set out to create. I think mostly because of Gary Kubiak. Can he win a Super Bowl? I don't know.

But, do you think Tom Coughlin can win a Super Bowl?

I know most people will say, "You can't compare Coughlin to Kubiak, Coughlin has won two Super Bowls & Kubiak has won nothing."

But my point, is that guy is the same guy he was before he won two Super Bowls. There is no question about it, that guy has a Super Bowl caliber team. But he couldn't get that Super Bowl team into the play offs in 2012. If you believe in being flat, or un-motivated, or un-inspired..... they got whupped in 2 of his last three. They got shut out three weeks ago.

If that guy can win two Super Bowls, I haven't seen anything to make me believe Gary Kubiak can't.

Thorn
01-13-2013, 08:10 PM
I'm back!

FIRE KUBIAK!

I'm sure he'll be back next year, but I just had to dredge this thread up anyway.

utahmark
01-13-2013, 08:25 PM
Don't know if I want to join the club or not. Two straight trips to the second round of the playoff's but no realistic chance at a superbowl vs the crapshoot of getting a new head coach? Whats worse is that before the end of this season I thought we might of been real close to a superbowl last year but even if we would of got past the Ravens, Belichick would of used our coaching staff the same way he did this year. Hard to ever win a Superbowl when there is a certain type of team that you have no chance of beating. Have to go through the playoff's without facing the Packers, Saints or Patriots.

ATXtexanfan
01-13-2013, 08:32 PM
fire kubiak and he will find a job. fire schaub............

Textan
01-13-2013, 08:34 PM
I'm back!

FIRE KUBIAK!

I'm sure he'll be back next year, but I just had to dredge this thread up anyway.
Amen Thorn, Amen, and throw in Schaub to seal the deal.

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 08:36 PM
fire kubiak and he will find a job. fire schaub............

i think one of the lesser teams would go after him.

schaub isn't a great qb but there would be some interest especially since he doesn't come with a high price tag.

Hervoyel
01-13-2013, 08:38 PM
Fire Kubiak, Make him take Schaub with him. I'll be back next year same time, same message. Rinse and repeat.

ObsiWan
01-13-2013, 08:39 PM
I'm back!

FIRE KUBIAK!

I'm sure he'll be back next year, but I just had to dredge this thread up anyway.

Justifiable venting and b!tching can be had in the All-Incompassing Dump Matt Schaub thread.

Kubiak didn't do a bad job today. Had them within 4 at the half - should have been tied if Casey could catch.

I'm afraid this loss is on Schaub.

MEGA SWATT
01-13-2013, 08:54 PM
Kubiak and Schaub need to go.

Nice guys, but they are not great leaders and are NOT able to do any better than 2 and threw.

Textan
01-13-2013, 08:56 PM
Justifiable venting and b!tching can be had in the All-Incompassing Dump Matt Schaub thread.

Kubiak didn't do a bad job today. Had them within 4 at the half - should have been tied if Casey could catch.

I'm afraid this loss is on Schaub.
And this last month is on who? This monumental collapse is all on Sloth Schaubs shoulders?

fiasco west
01-13-2013, 08:56 PM
Don't know if I want to join the club or not. Two straight trips to the second round of the playoff's but no realistic chance at a superbowl vs the crapshoot of getting a new head coach? Whats worse is that before the end of this season I thought we might of been real close to a superbowl last year but even if we would of got past the Ravens, Belichick would of used our coaching staff the same way he did this year. Hard to ever win a Superbowl when there is a certain type of team that you have no chance of beating. Have to go through the playoff's without facing the Packers, Saints or Patriots.

Pretty much.

The idea to hire some college coach is silly. You pretty much risk it all then.

If you want to get rid of Kubiak then bring in a proven coach that has won it before.

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:11 PM
i think one of the lesser teams would go after him.

schaub isn't a great qb but there would be some interest especially since he doesn't come with a high price tag.

Given his age and the fact that he's not once played big time in a meaningful game i think you might be surprised.

I think more likely would be a team with an already established qb that needs a good back up.

If I'm a young team and I'm starting fresh why would I bring schaub in? Teams are drafting young qb's these days and playing them early...I don't want to stifle the process of finding a true franchise qb by putting schaub out there whom I don't think is good enough to take me to my ultimate goal and therefore isn't a long term solution.

I think an established team with a good qb already in place would be a good spot for schaub. If the starter went down schaub could come in and baby sit the offense and do some good things.

But I need more playmaking ability from a starting qb in today's NFL.

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 09:15 PM
Given his age and the fact that he's not once played big time in a meaningful game i think you might be surprised.

I think more likely would be a team with an already established qb that needs a good back up.

If I'm a young team and I'm starting fresh why would I bring schaub in? Teams are drafting young qb's these days and playing them early...I don't want to stifle the process of finding a true franchise qb by putting schaub out there whom I don't think is good enough to take me to my ultimate goal and therefore isn't a long term solution.

I think an established team with a good qb already in place would be a good spot for schaub. If the starter went down schaub could come in and baby sit the offense and do some good things.

But I need more playmaking ability from a starting qb in today's NFL.

you would be surprised.

raiders went with a washed up carson palmer.

2x pro bowler
pro bowl mvp
lead the league in passing yards

we forget how desperate teams are.

use schaub as a place holder while you build the rest of your team.

Vinny
01-13-2013, 09:23 PM
we forget how desperate teams are.

use schaub as a place holder while you build the rest of your team.
just like Alex Smith was. Houston just needs to find their Kapernick.

Rey
01-13-2013, 09:31 PM
you would be surprised.

raiders went with a washed up carson palmer.

2x pro bowler
pro bowl mvp
lead the league in passing yards

we forget how desperate teams are.

use schaub as a place holder while you build the rest of your team.

Not going to happen and a completely ridiculous comparison.

First off, Palmer has tools schaub doesn't. Palmer was a #1 overall. As much as you might want to believe otherwise teams probably felt like Palmer had more upside than schaub. They felt he could be a true franchise qb with a change of scenery. They felt like Palmer coulb be their franchise player.

LoL @ trading all those picks for a placeholder at qb.

No one is trading that haul for schaub because like I said (and you seem to agree with) he'd be a ace holder.

And lastly, the raiders had just been burned on a young qb they took at the top if the draft.

Their situation was completely different and what we gave with schaub is not remotely close.

No one is looking at schaub and thinking...I think there's something I can work with there...I want him to qb my team to a superbowl....no one but us at least...

AJ-80
01-13-2013, 09:34 PM
I would be fine with Kubiak getting the boot, but the question is, what are the options here? The last thing we need is McNair making a spur-of-the-moment decision and firing him without a better option to replace him with. As far as Shaub goes, he's average. Never going to win the super bowl, but will consistently get you in the playoffs. What are the chances we trade for Alex Smith?

Mr. Texan
01-13-2013, 09:36 PM
No one is looking at schaub and thinking...I think there's something I can work with there...I want him to qb my team to a superbowl....no one but us at least...

the last thing a lesser team is looking for in the present is a superbowl qb.

you would be amazed at how many fanbases just want to be in the position the texans are in with schaub or even just win games.

schaub can win games, he's just not a qb to carry a team at that next level.

contrary to popular belief here some people still consider schaub a decent qb.

eriadoc
01-13-2013, 11:18 PM
But, do you think Tom Coughlin can win a Super Bowl?

I know most people will say, "You can't compare Coughlin to Kubiak, Coughlin has won two Super Bowls & Kubiak has won nothing."

But my point, is that guy is the same guy he was before he won two Super Bowls.

Not true. There's an NFL Films special on Coughlin and the NYG the year that they won their first SB with him. A significant part of time was spent talking about what a different coach he had become. He changed.

Not getting into how that pertains to Kubiak, but your point is fundamentally flawed.

thunderkyss
01-13-2013, 11:29 PM
Not true. There's an NFL Films special on Coughlin and the NYG the year that they won their first SB with him. A significant part of time was spent talking about what a different coach he had become. He changed.

Not getting into how that pertains to Kubiak, but your point is fundamentally flawed.

I'm sure there would be a lot of people waxing about the changes Kubiak has undergone his last few years here if anyone wanted to do a documentary on Kubiak.

But that Coughlin that was fired by the Jags, was the same Coughlin that coached a three game losing streak that ended his defending super Bowl champs play off hopes.

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 01:26 AM
I'm sure there would be a lot of people waxing about the changes Kubiak has undergone his last few years here if anyone wanted to do a documentary on Kubiak.

But that Coughlin that was fired by the Jags, was the same Coughlin that coached a three game losing streak that ended his defending super Bowl champs play off hopes.

Sure, but the Coughlin that people think of, the guy that laid into is players for not being early enough, didn't win a Super Bowl. He had to change to adjust to his players.

Vinny
01-14-2013, 01:28 AM
I'm sure there would be a lot of people waxing about the changes Kubiak has undergone his last few years here if anyone wanted to do a documentary on Kubiak.

But that Coughlin that was fired by the Jags, was the same Coughlin that coached a three game losing streak that ended his defending super Bowl champs play off hopes.Coughlin also took an expansion team (those Jags you mention) to the AFC Championship if you want to do your homework.

mussop
01-14-2013, 08:18 AM
I foresee cowher in our future. Maybe it's just me but after watching him interview Watt yesterday, I believe he wants this job. He is in love with Watt. Couldn't say enough good things about him.

Before the game he was saying how Kubiak needs to think outside the box for this game. Can't stay with his normal play calling. I don't know why but it just seems like everything is falling in place for us to get him.

Obviously Kubes is going to get another year most likely 2 no matter what. Cowher announced that he wanted another couple years off before he returned to coaching. Bet he would change his mind real fast if Kubiak got canned.

Foxboro Steve
01-14-2013, 08:35 AM
I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak... :dontknowa

thunderkyss
01-14-2013, 10:48 AM
I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak... :dontknowa

I agree with this. Schaub isn't Brady or Rogers, but Schaub has played much better in the past. If there is something concrete that would lead me to believe Schaub can't be that guy, then I'd be onboard with moving on.

Kubiak on the other hand... I could understand if more people were looking at him as they criticize this game. I don't understand the focus on Schaub, other than seeing all these young'ns run around & make this QB thing look easy.

Schaub has a list of strengths & a list of weaknesses. I don't think Kubiak has done a good job of putting his QB in a position to succeed. Everyone told us what the Patriots weakness was. TEs over the middle, their secondary...

At the end of the half, we attacked that weakness & we were able to move the ball much better in that 4 minute period than we had the entire half. I thought Gary "saw" that. I thought Gary "woke up"

But after the half, we put that approach on the back burners & went right back to what did not work. I saw Matt Schaub escape the pocket by throwing a stiff arm at a DE/LB... he got out clean to the flat. Did not set his feet, did not locate a receiver, did not deliver the ball down field. Did not "make a play" I'm watching that & with everything else I saw, I'm left with the idea that Kubiak was looking at that & said,"That's it Matt, next time we'll make that throw."

& that's just absurd.

Double Barrel
01-14-2013, 11:02 AM
If you want to fire a coach, look at Wade. His defense gives up points.

I don't think anyone not named Coach Joe should be fired, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this loss.

But this is a pointless thread, because McNair is not Bud Adams and he will not fire his HC after a playoff loss.

And Kubiak loves him some Schaub, so expect status quo in 2013 with some draft additions that may or may not contribute on the field next season.

What is obvious is that the Houston Texas are a second tier team, one that can look good against regular season opponents and earn a playoff spot, but they are far from a team that can or will assert their will on opponents in the post-season. The best we can hope for at this point is that the other team makes mistakes that we can capitalize on, which they cannot even consistently do that right now.

Honoring Earl 34
01-14-2013, 11:17 AM
If you want to fire a coach, look at Wade. His defense gives up points.

I don't think anyone not named Coach Joe should be fired, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this loss.

But this is a pointless thread, because McNair is not Bud Adams and he will not fire his HC after a playoff loss.

And Kubiak loves him some Schaub, so expect status quo in 2013 with some draft additions that may or may not contribute on the field next season.

What is obvious is that the Houston Texas are a second tier team, one that can look good against regular season opponents and earn a playoff spot, but they are far from a team that can or will assert their will on opponents in the post-season. The best we can hope for at this point is that the other team makes mistakes that we can capitalize on, which they cannot even consistently do that right now.

The Texans are like a mom and pop marketing shop who will not get rid of their cousin , nephew , or son unless they really really screw up . In fact they'll give them an extension even when they don't deserve it . :boogereater:

Vinny
01-14-2013, 11:32 AM
If you want to fire a coach, look at Wade. His defense gives up points.

I don't think anyone not named Coach Joe should be fired, but there is plenty of blame to go around on this loss.

But this is a pointless thread, because McNair is not Bud Adams and he will not fire his HC after a playoff loss.

And Kubiak loves him some Schaub, so expect status quo in 2013 with some draft additions that may or may not contribute on the field next season.

What is obvious is that the Houston Texas are a second tier team, one that can look good against regular season opponents and earn a playoff spot, but they are far from a team that can or will assert their will on opponents in the post-season. The best we can hope for at this point is that the other team makes mistakes that we can capitalize on, which they cannot even consistently do that right now.
I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

Thorn
01-14-2013, 11:36 AM
I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

Exactly. As long as the Texans are within 7 points, they have a chance. Once they are down by 20 or more, it's all over. This team just simply isn't built for quick points. That either changes, or we'll just keep getting these nice AFCS hats and dropping out of the playoffs early. Indy, I think, has farther to go than most believe.

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 11:46 AM
I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak... :dontknowa

This thread is three years old. If you check the complaints people have had about Kubiak throughout the thread, they haven't changed. And people didn't start the thread until Kubiak had been around for a few years.

At this point in time, there's no chance Kubiak gets fired. But this thread is an interesting trip through time.

eriadoc
01-14-2013, 11:47 AM
I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

Couldn't agree with this post more.

Double Barrel
01-14-2013, 11:56 AM
I see really good teams giving up big points but I don't see really good teams with horse and buggy offenses while everyone else is buzzing around in them newfangled horseless carriages. Of all the teams that played yesterday, we were the only team that was done...I mean done, once down by 18. You didn't get that feeling when the Seahawks fell behind the Falcons and you know the 9ers, Packers or Pats all have the same ability. The Texans? done. All we could muster up was the holy mosey offense once down by 18 with a quarter left to play. Dinkin' and dunkin' at it's finest level.

I'll be honest with you, I had that gut feeling when they could not score a TD after being gifted with a 94 yard kickoff return.

SETTLING for field goals is this team's mantra.

I was a little surprised that we were within 4 at halftime, but I told my buddy that the Patriots will come out ready to play and the Texans will act like they are sleepy after taking a nap. The 3rd quarter played out exactly as I expected, and according to Kubiak, this quarter is when "they lost the game" (a defeatist attitude, IMO).

I'm sure Schaub fans will use his stats to support him, but I'm not buying it. I saw it with my own eyes. Dude is just not prime time in any sort of way. And this offense runs through him. It is his to succeed or fail.

Vinny
01-14-2013, 12:04 PM
rewatch the game on NFL rewind later and see how slow they huddle once they got behind, how many times they throw short of the yardsticks, how casual the offense was...it was maddening to me. It was like it was too much trouble to ramp it up and take some shots. It felt like hey, lets pad the stat line and make it look good on paper.

HOU-TEX
01-14-2013, 12:10 PM
I'll be honest with you, I had that gut feeling when they could not score a TD after being gifted with a 94 yard kickoff return.

SETTLING for field goals is this team's mantra.

I was a little surprised that we were within 4 at halftime, but I told my buddy that the Patriots will come out ready to play and the Texans will act like they are sleepy after taking a nap. The 3rd quarter played out exactly as I expected, and according to Kubiak, this quarter is when "they lost the game" (a defeatist attitude, IMO).

I'm sure Schaub fans will use his stats to support him, but I'm not buying it. I saw it with my own eyes. Dude is just not prime time in any sort of way. And this offense runs through him. It is his to succeed or fail.

And it's quite unfortunate we're stuck like chuck for at least another 3 years years. It saddens me that we've basically peaked with this regime and QB. I just can't come up with a scenerio where we can push the door in with this bunch. I'm happy we got to the point of being somewhat of a consistent playoff team, but what's the point if we can't beat the "elite"? It's like the 90's Oilers all over again.

Double Barrel
01-14-2013, 12:12 PM
rewatch the game on NFL rewind later and see how slow they huddle once they got behind, how many times they throw short of the yardsticks, how casual the offense was...it was maddening to me. It was like it was too much trouble to ramp it up and take some shots. It felt like hey, lets pad the stat line and make it look good on paper.

I was wondering if a "hurry up" offense is even an option with this team.

It seems like they are built, both in terms of personnel and mentality, to get a lead and hold it with a run game and aggressive defense.

But once they get down two scores or more, they just seem lost and unable to amp up the intensity to catch up. They used to have the ability to catch up a couple of years ago when the defense sucked, but they have lost that ability and flounder around these days when they get behind.

Vinny
01-14-2013, 12:16 PM
I was wondering if a "hurry up" offense is even an option with this team.

It seems like they are buit, both in terms of personnel and mentality, to get a lead and hold it with a run game and aggressive defense.

But once they get down two scores or more, they just seem lost and unable to amp up the intensity to catch up. They used to have the ability to catch up a couple of years ago with the defense sucked, but they have lost that ability and flounder around these days when they get behind.
That was when Andre could take over a game. He's still a hell of a receiver but he doesn't destroy coverages anymore and he is more of a possession guy who can pick up big first downs here and there instead of a take the top off the defense kind of a threat. That's one reason I think this team needs an injection of speed and quickness. Both outside and in the slot. If we do that we still need to overcome this horse and buggy offense and be flexible like other elite teams...but Kubiak's offense seems stuck in the past.

welsh texan
01-14-2013, 12:27 PM
Interesting reading this thread. Perhaps the main knock I have on Kubiak right now is that I don't believe he has it in him to part ways with Schaub at this juncture.

And in terms of Kubes' near term job security, that is probably the best decision for him, I mean, what are the chances that a rookie QB comes in and is an immediate upgrade? What are the chances that we can cut Schaub and then still be able to afford to get a vet who's an upgrade, and then even if we do, the chance that they don't take to the system.

For Kubes, it makes perfect sense to stick with Schaub and keep on beating everyone you're supposed to beat and failing against the elite tier QB's who given the current NFL rules will shred any D you put in front of them.

Take the Welker bomb on KJax, Welker pushed off on Kareem, if Kareem pushed back it would have been PI on D.

As for the Offensive scheme, I really don't know. We talk about our 'young' team, but our O is starting to get old now. AJ getting up there, OD too, Walter, Schaub, Thats 4 of your top 5 skill position players beyond their prime now. They haven't drafted/traded for an upgrade at any of those positions for years either. They bring on their draftees extremely slowly and then bleed them in in a way that puts plenty of tape on to scheme against before they've ever had chance to do any real damage. Just look at the Casey FB switch, I get the feeling Bill would have exploited that mismatch until teams simply had to sell out against it. What does Gary use it for?

A little wrinkle here and there, maybe let him rack up 100 yards receiving in a game once every 18 months or so. Whats the point of that when you could have a full on blocking FB roadgrading for our excellent RB group?

I have no expectations that we'll move on from either Schaub or Kubiak this offseason, and I don't see us winning fewer than 10 games with the status quo either. But we're going to be praying for favourable playoff seedings and more in January 2014 again unless something changes in philosophy. Which, again it won't.

Worst thing about last night? Lots of people were worried that the refs would screw us, yet the calls almost all went our way, there were awful ball spots that moved the chains for us, Fosters TD that could easily have been called short, video evidence was inconclusive at best. Injuries, not something you wish for but the Pats lost some important pieces during the game. What more could you ask for, and the scoreline reads far, far more respectably than it could have done.

This entire Smithiak era is beginning to look to me the way the Chargers looked a few years ago, racking up loads of stats in the regular season and failing in the playoffs. They had a lot of similar tools to what we have in terms of personnel too. Just never managed to get it done.

ObsiWan
01-14-2013, 12:43 PM
I see what you guys have been talking about. Didn't like the play calling, thought the gameplan was conservative. I don't know how you fire a guy that is in the playoffs two years in a row, even if Houston squandered a 1 seed.

Shaub is good enough in my opinion, but Kubiak... :dontknowa

Without seeing the gameplan or looking at the All-22 viewpoint to see what routes were available, how do you know the fail wasn't execution by Schaub?

ObsiWan
01-14-2013, 12:55 PM
Interesting reading this thread. Perhaps the main knock I have on Kubiak right now is that I don't believe he has it in him to part ways with Schaub at this juncture.

And in terms of Kubes' near term job security, that is probably the best decision for him, I mean, what are the chances that a rookie QB comes in and is an immediate upgrade? What are the chances that we can cut Schaub and then still be able to afford to get a vet who's an upgrade, and then even if we do, the chance that they don't take to the system.

For Kubes, it makes perfect sense to stick with Schaub and keep on beating everyone you're supposed to beat and failing against the elite tier QB's who given the current NFL rules will shred any D you put in front of them.

Take the Welker bomb on KJax, Welker pushed off on Kareem, if Kareem pushed back it would have been PI on D.

As for the Offensive scheme, I really don't know. We talk about our 'young' team, but our O is starting to get old now. AJ getting up there, OD too, Walter, Schaub, Thats 4 of your top 5 skill position players beyond their prime now. They haven't drafted/traded for an upgrade at any of those positions for years either. They bring on their draftees extremely slowly and then bleed them in in a way that puts plenty of tape on to scheme against before they've ever had chance to do any real damage. Just look at the Casey FB switch, I get the feeling Bill would have exploited that mismatch until teams simply had to sell out against it. What does Gary use it for?

A little wrinkle here and there, maybe let him rack up 100 yards receiving in a game once every 18 months or so. Whats the point of that when you could have a full on blocking FB roadgrading for our excellent RB group?

I have no expectations that we'll move on from either Schaub or Kubiak this offseason, and I don't see us winning fewer than 10 games with the status quo either. But we're going to be praying for favourable playoff seedings and more in January 2014 again unless something changes in philosophy. Which, again it won't.

Worst thing about last night? Lots of people were worried that the refs would screw us, yet the calls almost all went our way, there were awful ball spots that moved the chains for us, Fosters TD that could easily have been called short, video evidence was inconclusive at best. Injuries, not something you wish for but the Pats lost some important pieces during the game. What more could you ask for, and the scoreline reads far, far more respectably than it could have done.

This entire Smithiak era is beginning to look to me the way the Chargers looked a few years ago, racking up loads of stats in the regular season and failing in the playoffs. They had a lot of similar tools to what we have in terms of personnel too. Just never managed to get it done.

Good points all, repped.

I guess I'd sum it up this way... We managed to climb out of the cellar and not be perpetual whipping boys any more under Schaub and Kubiak, Yaaay us.

....but is this as good as it gets? How long before Uncle Bob figures out there's more work to be done and he needs new pieces and/or upgrades to existing pieces to go the rest of the way? Because Schaub and/or Kubiak aren't enough.

WolverineFan
09-29-2013, 04:37 PM
How is this still happening in year 8?

Corrosion
09-29-2013, 04:38 PM
Kubiak hasn't thrown a TD pass to the opponent three straight weeks .... :swatter:

TheIronDuke
09-29-2013, 04:39 PM
After 8-8 this year I'd think McNair might finally rid ourselves of him.

ljhog
09-29-2013, 04:40 PM
2 years ago as far as I'm concerned. But, he doesn't have a QB worth a damn, A Johnson is past his prime, and the secondary is depending on a washed up Ed Reed to make it better. Texans aren't very good.

Corrosion
09-29-2013, 04:43 PM
2 years ago as far as I'm concerned. But, he doesn't have a QB worth a damn, A Johnson is past his prime, and the secondary is depending on a washed up Ed Reed to make it better. Texans aren't very good.

They were good enough to have the game in the bag until Schaub threw a TD pass to the wrong guy .... again.

Nawzer
09-29-2013, 04:44 PM
It ran out a few years ago. I've never been a big fan of his and I've always stated that I thought of him as someone who righted the ship, but not someone who is going to lead us deep into the playoffs. Should've gone after Peyton when he was available but they were too arrogant.

htownfan32
09-29-2013, 04:45 PM
Kubiak's offensive philosophy and calling is okay. We're saddled with a liability at QB, though, and that QB is regressing.

2010 Matt Schaub with our current defense could have won a Super Bowl. 2013 Matt Schaub has fallen so far off the tracks that we're not going to win the division.

eriadoc
09-29-2013, 04:46 PM
Kubiak hasn't thrown a TD pass to the opponent three straight weeks .... :swatter:

Nor has he benched the guy who has.

stonewhite
09-29-2013, 04:46 PM
Kubiak hasn't thrown a TD pass to the opponent three straight weeks .... :swatter:

But the guy he rolls with has

cstyle42
09-29-2013, 04:49 PM
Kubiak's offensive philosophy and calling is okay. We're saddled with a liability at QB, though, and that QB is regressing.

2010 Matt Schaub with our current defense could have won a Super Bowl. 2013 Matt Schaub has fallen so far off the tracks that we're not going to win the division.

2010 Matt Schaub chokes under pressure just like 2013 one.

Pantherstang84
09-29-2013, 04:49 PM
Kubiak's offensive philosophy and calling is okay. We're saddled with a liability at QB, though, and that QB is regressing.

2010 Matt Schaub with our current defense could have won a Super Bowl. 2013 Matt Schaub has fallen so far off the tracks that we're not going to win the division.

For the first time today, I agree with you.

utahmark
09-29-2013, 04:49 PM
2 years ago as far as I'm concerned. But, he doesn't have a QB worth a damn, A Johnson is past his prime, and the secondary is depending on a washed up Ed Reed to make it better. Texans aren't very good.

One guy doesn't make one mistake and cost us 6 points with three minutes left and we probably win the game against what most consider the best team in the league. Everyone would be talking about Superbowl. Now we are no better than 8 and 8. Gotta Love it:wadepalm:

Pantherstang84
09-29-2013, 04:50 PM
I'm ready to scrap this season and see what Yates or Keenum can do so we know whether we need to draft a new QB high next year.

Corrosion
09-29-2013, 04:51 PM
Nor has he benched the guy who has.


Hard to bench a starting QB .... but damn , if ever one deserved it , Schaub is that guy.


Im absolutely disgusted with his play over the last ~8 games.

MEGA SWATT
09-29-2013, 04:52 PM
Fire Kubes fire MS

Mr teX
09-29-2013, 04:53 PM
Kubiak....kinda lost faith in him last year in the playoffs....he's taken is as far as he can....I think this game kinda sealed my belief in Schaub....can kubes and you'll get your qb of the future.....I'd hate to let him be apart of choosing that qb and then be fired the next year... The new coach may not want that guy.

eriadoc
09-29-2013, 04:53 PM
Hard to bench a starting QB .... but damn , if ever one deserved it , Schaub is that guy.

Im absolutely disgusted with his play over the last ~8 games.

There have been HOF QBs that have been benched for poor play. There have been Super Bowl winning QBs that have been benched for poor play. Schaub doesn't have anything close to that pedigree, and he's not going to bench himself.

RCPM
09-29-2013, 04:55 PM
kubiak's offensive philosophy and calling is okay. We're saddled with a liability at qb, though, and that qb is regressing.

2010 matt schaub with our current defense could have won a super bowl. 2013 matt schaub has fallen so far off the tracks that we're not going to win the division.

this!!!!!!

welsh texan
09-29-2013, 05:07 PM
Fire Kubes fire MS

I can't help but feel like we should start case/tj, if either of them fails we have a nice draft pick to plug the hole at QB with and the money we save on having a rookie contract QB can be used to resign the quality young team we have to put around them.

Today is the first time I've come to the conclusion that Schaub can't get it done anymore. He's knackered and it upsets me to see it because I give him a lot of credit for pulling our team to respectability.

Kubiak gets the opportunity to sort this out for me if, and only if, he's willing to face up to the fact that he no longer has a QB.

The rest of this team is good, some issues on the back end of D that I believe will even themselves out, plenty of potential on the oline and I do trust the coaching staff to make the most of that talent, eventually. I see a lot of positives apart from the most important position on the team.

Thorn
09-29-2013, 05:09 PM
Fire Kubes fire MS

I'll second that emotion.

PapaL
09-29-2013, 05:10 PM
Kubes won't run out of leash, he'll hang himself with it before he yanks MS.

Hervoyel
09-29-2013, 05:10 PM
2 years ago as far as I'm concerned. But, he doesn't have a QB worth a damn, A Johnson is past his prime, and the secondary is depending on a washed up Ed Reed to make it better. Texans aren't very good.


Sure they are. The defense played a great game as did the offense until the second half. Then the offense just stopped showing up, Matt went "full retard" and the defense finally wore down. They can't stop them every single time and no one expects them to be able to do that.

The offense lost this game and specifically they lost it because of Matt Schaub. Not because the running game wasn't there. Not because the offensive line isn't good enough. They lost it because Matt Schaub can't deal with any pressure at all and Matt Schaub can't make good decisions under any kind of pressure.

Those are primary attributes required to play QB in the NFL at a high level. No amount of smoke and/or mirrors will cover up the fact that those are missing forever.

PapaL
09-29-2013, 05:22 PM
Sure they are. The defense played a great game as did the offense until the second half. Then the offense just stopped showing up, Matt went "full retard" and the defense finally wore down. They can't stop them every single time and no one expects them to be able to do that.

The offense lost this game and specifically they lost it because of Matt Schaub. Not because the running game wasn't there. Not because the offensive line isn't good enough. They lost it because Matt Schaub can't deal with any pressure at all and Matt Schaub can't make good decisions under any kind of pressure.

Those are primary attributes required to play QB in the NFL at a high level. No amount of smoke and/or mirrors will cover up the fact that those are missing forever.


http://www.troll.me/images/full-retard/you-went-full-retard-never-go-full-retard.jpg

Porky
09-29-2013, 05:25 PM
Kubes is falling on the sword in the presser. I made a bad call there, blah blah blah. He's never going to yank MS until or unless he is either injured or they fall out of the playoff picture imo. I would start Yates next week. He has playoff experience. If nothing else, it sends a message that nobody is safe if you suck eggs.

We should have gotten rid of Kubes after 2010. He sucks as a HC, his offense is very modern....if it's 1976... and he again tucked his tail, and hid under his turtle shell.

Marcus
09-29-2013, 05:44 PM
Jeez Porky! Is this "turtle shell" nonsense the best you can do? Really?

Seegara
09-29-2013, 05:58 PM
After 8-8 this year I'd think McNair might finally rid ourselves of him.
I'm thinking more like 7-9.

Hervoyel
09-29-2013, 06:05 PM
"At what point does Kubiak run out of leash?"

About three years ago but I'm not holding the leash. I'd have fired him after the 6-10 season that brought us Wade Phillips and the sudden realization that no, we don't have a talent issue on that side of the ball. Just a brain issue with the HC and DC.

Naiirb
09-29-2013, 06:16 PM
Just to think about it. If Russel Wilson or Colin Kaepernick were sitting behind Schaub at this point, Schaub would still remain the starter.

Vinny
09-29-2013, 06:35 PM
Just to think about it. If Russel Wilson or Colin Kaepernick were sitting behind Schaub at this point, Schaub would still remain the starter.the other day I raised the point about how Harbaugh had the nuts to draft Kapernick and then play him when Alex Smith was productive and efficient. If Kubiak were the 9ers coach I'm not sure Kubiak even drafts a guy like Kapernick because he would have been OK with Smith's play.

Corrosion
09-29-2013, 06:51 PM
There have been HOF QBs that have been benched for poor play. There have been Super Bowl winning QBs that have been benched for poor play. Schaub doesn't have anything close to that pedigree, and he's not going to bench himself.

You have to ask yourself the fatal question here "Do either Yates or Keenum give us a better chance to win"?? (I think that's a question worthy of a poll).

I think the case for keeping Kubiak beyond Schaub is a strong one when you consider that despite the obvious limitations at the QB position , this team has been at the top of the league in total yards , scoring and time of possession over the last three seasons ....


Schaub's two picks today account for a 13 point swing. Anything was better than throwing that pass ... throw it away or just fall down , take a sack and punt.

Naiirb
09-29-2013, 07:03 PM
Also just like Wade, Kubiak is much more suited to being a coordinator rather than a head coach and a leader of men

welsh texan
09-29-2013, 07:03 PM
You have to ask yourself the fatal question here "Do either Yates or Keenum give us a better chance to win"?? (I think that's a question worthy of a poll).

I think the case for keeping Kubiak beyond Schaub is a strong one when you consider that despite the obvious limitations at the QB position , this team has been at the top of the league in total yards , scoring and time of possession over the last three seasons ....


Schaub's two picks today account for a 13 point swing. Anything was better than throwing that pass ... throw it away or just fall down , take a sack and punt.
I think that if Yates or Keemun start today we have just as good a chance of winning this game as we did with Schaub, I think of Yates or Keenum start for the rest of the season we see what we have in them, if we reach the playoffs with them then great, if they stink it up then we have ourselves a draft spot to go get a decent QB to place into an excellent position to succeed and have a better chance to win the Super Bowl next season, and the season after that.

I don't see the point on sticking with a guy who has clearly lost his way. I think you put pre-injury Schaub into this team we are a contender. But that isn't an option. Cheers for dragging us to respectability Matt, sorry your body gave up on you before you got to reap the rewards, lets move on though.

Schaubs rare meltdowns used to be the final straw once in a while when the team wasn't as good, between the way the meltdowns happen most weeks now, his good play not having the same ceiling it once did, and the fact that the team is good enough apart from him now (not the final straw in an all around bad performance) we just cannot waste any more time.

If Kubiak is taking the blame in the presses though, I just don't see what's needed happenning unfortunately. And you know what? If someone needs firing, and the HC wants to take the blame, then ill struggle to get too upset. I believe in Kubiak to be successful if he makes the bold decision and fixes the QB position. If he's not willing, see ya.

eriadoc
09-29-2013, 07:15 PM
You have to ask yourself the fatal question here "Do either Yates or Keenum give us a better chance to win"?? (I think that's a question worthy of a poll).

As I answered in your poll thread, if we're going to continue to see rookie mistakes from our QB, then I want to see the rookie upside. Schaub is very good as long as those mean old pass rushers leave him alone. If defenses insist upon rushing Schaub, then we're screwed.

Oz Texan
09-29-2013, 07:16 PM
Kubiak's offensive philosophy and calling is okay. We're saddled with a liability at QB, though, and that QB is regressing.

2010 Matt Schaub with our current defense could have won a Super Bowl. 2013 Matt Schaub has fallen so far off the tracks that we're not going to win the division.


I'm sorry but imho anyone who thinks that Kubs offensive philosophy and play calling ok is diluding themselves. Every Texans fan knew what was going to happen in the second half, the same thing that always happens when we go into the half with a lead. Try not to lose. You know what philosophy and play calling works? John Fox in Denver, Bill Belliceck in New England why because they dont give other teams the opportunity to come back. Every drive they want to and are trying to score a TD. We do not.

Now for Schaub. I personally have been a proponent of his even comming into this year. Even after I watch Case and TJ light up preseason ( i give the edge to Case imo) Schaub lost me this game though. And it was comming before hand. I don't think I have ever seen so many pick6s ever. And the one today is the reason we lost. For anyone saying the defense gave up points they gave up a total of 13 points which combined with our 20 equals a Texans win agains the "best" team in the NFL. Too many times does Schaub go fetal when on of our other QBs would have escaped the situation. Now im just venting but you get the idea. They both need to go. They have had their chance it's someone elses turn. With the next person be better who knows.

Giant Tiger
09-29-2013, 07:20 PM
I can't help but feel like we should start case/tj, if either of them fails we have a nice draft pick to plug the hole at QB with and the money we save on having a rookie contract QB can be used to resign the quality young team we have to put around them.

Today is the first time I've come to the conclusion that Schaub can't get it done anymore. He's knackered and it upsets me to see it because I give him a lot of credit for pulling our team to respectability.

Kubiak gets the opportunity to sort this out for me if, and only if, he's willing to face up to the fact that he no longer has a QB.

The rest of this team is good, some issues on the back end of D that I believe will even themselves out, plenty of potential on the oline and I do trust the coaching staff to make the most of that talent, eventually. I see a lot of positives apart from the most important position on the team.

This is where I'm at, too. That 1 on 4 sack sealed it for me :facepalm:

Norg
09-29-2013, 08:22 PM
I wonder if Mcnair will allow Kubes to stay and get a new QB...????


that usually never works out tho for change u got to get a hole new coach and QB and that means Bye bye Andre OD and new center has well this Offesnive will have to be torn apart and re built

Corrosion
09-29-2013, 08:35 PM
As I answered in your poll thread, if we're going to continue to see rookie mistakes from our QB, then I want to see the rookie upside. Schaub is very good as long as those mean old pass rushers leave him alone. If defenses insist upon rushing Schaub, then we're screwed.

We're on the same page ... I'd rather see Keenum making rookie mistakes with some hope of upside than Schaub who's a known product.


I wonder if Mcnair will allow Kubes to stay and get a new QB...????


that usually never works out tho for change u got to get a hole new coach and QB and that means Bye bye Andre OD and new center has well this Offesnive will have to be torn apart and re built

That's a really good question .... Other than rookies available in the draft ... who's out there to be had via FA / trade ?!

The Third Man
09-29-2013, 09:24 PM
The Texans will still win the division, get in the playoffs and we'll see what happens. The defense is playing at a high level. If the Texans just stop gifting pick sixes to the other team, they will win 10 games. I am not giving up on the season at 2-2.

midway
09-30-2013, 12:46 AM
The Texans will still win the division, get in the playoffs and we'll see what happens. The defense is playing at a high level. If the Texans just stop gifting pick sixes to the other team, they will win 10 games. I am not giving up on the season at 2-2.

This team isn't winning the division. They likely go 0-2 against the colts, and drop their next game against the titans. Also likely lose to the Broncos and the niners. That right there is 7 losses, assuming Schaub doesn't Schaub it up in any other game this year, which is so unlikely that it's just absurd to even consider.

steelbtexan
09-30-2013, 02:19 AM
When somebody spanks Gary's butt with that leash. LOL

mridge01
09-30-2013, 08:13 AM
Kubiak hasn't thrown a TD pass to the opponent three straight weeks .... :swatter:

Yeah, but he called the horrible play yesterday. Driving for the 2 possession lead when Foster is running strong, and you call that play into the huddle. Bad, bad Kubiak.
:kubepalm:

Pantherstang84
09-30-2013, 09:03 AM
Yeah, but he called the horrible play yesterday. Driving for the 2 possession lead when Foster is running strong, and you call that play into the huddle. Bad, bad Kubiak.
:kubepalm:

An NFL coach should be able to trust his NFL QB to do the right thing no matter what play is called. He shouldn't have to dumb down the offense for a 7 year starter in his system.

Mr teX
09-30-2013, 09:19 AM
Yeah, but he called the horrible play yesterday. Driving for the 2 possession lead when Foster is running strong, and you call that play into the huddle. Bad, bad Kubiak.
:kubepalm:

Don't necessarily have a problem with passing in that situation, would've preferred to run it. the choice of pass play however....big problem. The play action wasn't working at all yesterday...just about every single time they called it, Schaub had someone in his face....Even with that, Schaub has to be cognizant of the situation there & not throw that ball....

thunderkyss
09-30-2013, 09:49 AM
The play action wasn't working at all yesterday...

The play action was fine. The bootleg wasn't.

silvrhand
09-30-2013, 09:55 AM
Don't necessarily have a problem with passing in that situation, would've preferred to run it. the choice of pass play however....big problem. The play action wasn't working at all yesterday...just about every single time they called it, Schaub had someone in his face....Even with that, Schaub has to be cognizant of the situation there & not throw that ball....

I'm sorry but Kubiak has to go now, his post game interview just sealed the deal for me. We all wondered if Kubiak trusted Matt, we know the answer now, he definitely doesn't trust his starting QB. Kubiak went Consveriak to start the 3rd quarter instead of just putting his foot on their throat, he tried to run the ball, then went all air Kubiak at the worst spot. Sherman was playing the right side of the field the entire game, way to go Kubiak attack their best CB, and one of the best in the NFL right now. Oh yah isolate Daniels on him, great idea.. not..

He's put Matt in that position, Matt made a HORRIBLE play, but if you have to tell a 8 year starter to throw the ball in the dirt on that play in that situation then you need a new starter.

Yesterday
09-30-2013, 10:01 AM
Honestly, I'd like Kubes as an offensive coordinator. He just lacks the charisma and situational awareness of a head coach. Can't complain with his offense over the last few years (considering the QB)

Yesterday
09-30-2013, 10:03 AM
We did move the ball well against arguably the leagues best Defense without our best offensive lineman...like I say, Kubiak is a good Offensive coordinator but not a good head coach (A head coach would have told Gary what to run on that critical play)

Mr teX
09-30-2013, 10:19 AM
I'm sorry but Kubiak has to go now, his post game interview just sealed the deal for me. We all wondered if Kubiak trusted Matt, we know the answer now, he definitely doesn't trust his starting QB. Kubiak went Consveriak to start the 3rd quarter instead of just putting his foot on their throat, he tried to run the ball, then went all air Kubiak at the worst spot. Sherman was playing the right side of the field the entire game, way to go Kubiak attack their best CB, and one of the best in the NFL right now. Oh yah isolate Daniels on him, great idea.. not..

He's put Matt in that position, Matt made a HORRIBLE play, but if you have to tell a 8 year starter to throw the ball in the dirt on that play in that situation then you need a new starter.

right, but see this is where i disagree with you. Josh Innes (as horrible as he is) was saying all last week that he doesn't think Kubiak trusts schaub...I find that hard to believe honestly. i think he trust Schaub just fine...maybe more than he should to be honest.

I mean we came out slinging it all over the place on the best secondary in the league....a number of those passes went towards the best cb in the league....the play call on the pick 6 also doesn't strike me as him not trusting his qb...b/c if that was the case he would've just ran it there. You don't do those things if you don't trust your qb to make plays for you.

Kubiak needs to go imo largely b/c of his misplaced loyalties with Marciano & Schaub and other coaches (Smith & Bush as DC's anyone?). but also b/c this team has continued to not play a full 60 minutes over the years. We're simply Jeckyl & Hyde with him. That's all on the HC & is inexcusable. How can we look like the best team in the league for a half & then completely wet the bed the next? Reminds me of the Norv Turner led Chargers.

TexanBacker93
09-30-2013, 10:48 AM
I liken Kubiak to a basketball coach that hasn't adapted to the fact that the 3 point shot has changed the game and made quick comebacks easier. You can't just run a 4 corners offense once you have a lead and expect to win every game.

I looked back over last season's games and saw that only 3 times in games that we won did we put up over 20 points in a 2nd half. 2 of those were the OT games where we had to come from behind to win and the 3rd was against the Titans and 14 of those points were because of INT returns for TDs. In the majority of the other games we had a good halftime lead and then went conservative to hold on to the win. In some (Miami, Jags, Balt, 2nd Ten game) that worked well and we won comfortably. Most of the rest were close games that we held on to win.

The NFL is a passing league now. Leads are as comfortable as they used to be. Atlanta was down 17 halfway through the 4th against NE and made it close and had a chance to tie. The hurry-up passing offense can be brutal on defenses. In theory the run the ball and use up valuable clock approach is great. When the offense executes correctly or the defense isn't geared up to stop it. It's a bigger strain on your own D if you can't keep a drive sustained and you force them to keep going out there against a hurry up.

Kubiak goes conservative at the wrong times. Usually too early. Yeah, we got a field goal at the end the 1st half, but it was because Carroll called the TOs and we had more time. If Carroll hadn't called the timeouts Kubiak would have let the half run out as is. It didn't matter that we had 3 of our own. At the end of the game when we should have been running the ball he calls for a play that everyone in the league knows to watch for. I realize Tate fumbled, but if you let him run the ball in that situation I think he gets a first down and we win the game.

We will win more games than we lose because we play some bad teams and we will win those. We also will beat a good team because everything goes our way. It should have happened yesterday, but we Kubiaked ourselves. In the long run, this team led by Gary Kubiak isn't a Super Bowl caliber team. We have the horses to get it done, but not the right guy leading the charge.

BullNation4Life
09-30-2013, 11:26 AM
Kubiak's leash should have ran out the year the Texans went 6-10 after a 9-7 season.

yet 2nd year coaches are going to the Super Bowl and our 8 year coach is still "learning" how to be a HC....

Corrosion
09-30-2013, 03:28 PM
.

yet 2nd year coaches are going to the Super Bowl and our 8 year coach is still looking for a QB....



:kitten:

cstyle42
09-30-2013, 05:55 PM
After hearing Kubiak's comments today I know he needs to fired. He's not changing anything at all just practice and do the same crap hoping the mistakes aren't made. Schaub will choke and we will continue to lose and it doesn't matter if we had 20 more pro bowlers on this team.

eriadoc
09-30-2013, 07:53 PM
So Kubiak doesn't trust Schaub to make decisions like that and/or he is arrogant enough to believe his system can overcome anything.

Think we need to dredge up the Fire Kubiak thread. Jeez.

PockyAF
09-30-2013, 08:45 PM
http://www.sports790.com/media/podcast-proper-gentlemen-podcast-propergentlemen/monday-september-30th-hour-2-23774901/

At 7:40min mark, Lance Z gives us a glimmer of hope on what could be (or probably is) happening behind the scene

GoCoogs
09-30-2013, 09:13 PM
Regardless of whether or not Kubiak's system allows Matt to audible out of the play, Matt made the worst decision possible. Take the Sack or throw the ball away. What is the point of having a "Game manager QB" if the QB doesn't know how to manage correctly?

Trail.Blazr
09-30-2013, 09:28 PM
One guy doesn't make one mistake and cost us 6 points with three minutes left and we probably win the game against what most consider the best team in the league. Everyone would be talking about Superbowl. Now we are no better than 8 and 8. Gotta Love it:wadepalm:

You "HAVE" been watching Houston Texans football, haven't you? How about you take the blinders off and try to look past a single game history. Go backwards 10 games. what do you see? 4 and 6 still feel like dancing? :bender:

You have to go back to the Thanksgiving Day game when the TExans were "Gifted" a win to be able to claim .500

Talking about Superbowl? I think some are well justified to talk Toiletbowl. The season has to play out, but recent history would indicate Superbowl is a laughable expectation.

Trail.Blazr
09-30-2013, 09:43 PM
Honestly, I'd like Kubes as an offensive coordinator. He just lacks the charisma and situational awareness of a head coach. Can't complain with his offense over the last few years (considering the QB)

The last few years have somewhat of a consistent picture. Great opening drives, making opposing teams look almost outclassed, only to then struggle for a large chunk of the rest of the game and have to figure out how to make a game of it in the final minutes. Plenty of exceptions to this picture over a long stretch of games, but in general terms, the body of work rules in support of this observation. Now, is this a product of ineffective in-game adjustments? Poor conditioning? Playing not to lose play calling?

Mostly though, Kubiak FAILS to acknowledge the need for improvement at the most critical position on the team. It's been SO long since I've compared the statistics between Sage Rosenfels as a Texan and Matt Schaub, I forget the numbers, but they were WAY TOO SIMILAR.

If we were so quick to run Sage out of town over 1 play, I'm astounded by how many plays Schaub gets to stockpile.

Get rid of the gimp GARY!

thunderkyss
09-30-2013, 10:13 PM
Great opening drives, making opposing teams look almost outclassed, only to then struggle for a large chunk of the rest of the game and have to figure out how to make a game of it in the final minutes. Plenty of exceptions to this picture over a long stretch of games, but in general terms, the body of work rules in support of this observation. Now, is this a product of ineffective in-game adjustments? Poor conditioning? Playing not to lose play calling?



& that's what we're waiting for. Them to put it all together at the right time for an extended period of time.

Trail.Blazr
09-30-2013, 10:14 PM
& that's what we're waiting for. Them to put it all together at the right time for an extended period of time.

DITTO... for 10 years and counting.

thunderkyss
09-30-2013, 10:22 PM
DITTO... for 10 years and counting.

& I'll wait another 10 years if I have to.

Hervoyel
09-30-2013, 10:38 PM
I wonder if Mcnair will allow Kubes to stay and get a new QB...????


that usually never works out tho for change u got to get a hole new coach and QB and that means Bye bye Andre OD and new center has well this Offesnive will have to be torn apart and re built

A new QB and HC would not mean that Andre Johnson, Owen Daniels, or any of the real "stars" on our offense would have to go. That's just crazy talk right there. The WR's are fine and AJ and Nuk start in just about any system you care to implement. Foster is a franchise back and will produce in just about any system you care to implement. Duane Brown, arguably the sole "gem" on our OL is a franchise LT and he's going to play in whatever we do. Our OL is young but we've got some talent in there. OD, Graham, and Griffin are not tied to this system either. If it's just a new HC then Schaub will suck just as much in any other coaches system so no need to go looking for a QB to suck in the new offense. Matt got that covered.

HJam72
10-01-2013, 04:39 PM
Marciano is a problem & needs to go.

I do not think Kubiak is the problem. He makes mistakes, but they all do.

Schaub I'm on the fence about, although there's no doubt he's been boneheaded lately, & I think it's time to start looking elsewhere: Keenum (next year....or MAYBE sooner...), draft, FA, whatever.

Kubiak might not want to let Schaub go or bench him (understatement of the week), & some may think that's reason to let HIM go, but he didn't want to let DC Richard Smith go either, & that worked out fine. McNair just has to put his foot down at some point.

I wonder if Kubiak needs to, ironically, say something to McNair about Marciano???

thunderkyss
10-01-2013, 05:30 PM
Marciano is a problem & needs to go.

I wonder if Kubiak needs to, ironically, say something to McNair about Marciano???

Personally, I don't believe that firing a person is or should be the only recourse when someone isn't performing to standards. As a head coach my job is to make sure my coordinators are getting the most out of their position coaches who in turn should be getting the most out of their players.

I would think Marciano would be more like a coordinator as he most likely reports directly to the head coach. Like the Tandon doss return. When Kubiak was asked about the breakdown in coverage he replied there was no breakdown in coverage. We had 4 unblocked players there to make the play. They didn't, Tandon Doss did & you know the rest.

Still Marciano's fault, not saying any different, but the problem (in that instance) is different from the perceived problem. Last year, in addition to poor play, there was also a lot of penalties so even if we did cover a kick well, or get a decent return, the penalty negated it. This year I'm seeing a lot less penalties. Different penalties if nothing else.

Having said that, I also think the Texans are slow to remove a person that needs to be removed. This isn't a new problem. Last year wasn't the first year this was a problem.

Just like our defense, Kubiak had his guy & he did not deliver the product we needed. Instead of firing him, he brought in Frank Bush. Performance didn't improve he ended up firing Smith anyway. If he thought replacing Smith was the best thing for the team, he should have done it when he brought Bush in. All he did was prolonged the inevitable.

Joe's assistant is probably Joe's replacement. He probably should have been brought in last year, they're probably prolonging the inevitable.

gafftop
10-06-2013, 06:44 PM
Whatever the point is it will be longer than any other team in the NFL would give.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 06:48 PM
Whatever the point is it will be longer than any other team in the NFL would give.

Marvin Lewis may have a thing or two to say about that.

thunderkyss
10-06-2013, 06:54 PM
To expand on this, I think there are two very definite time periods that we are talking about here, intertwined so as to look like one long time period.

How long should it take to turn around a losing club? 4 years? 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009.. only one losing season.

How long should it take to turn a winning club into a Super Bowl contender? 4 years? 3 years? 2010, 2011 <--contender-->, 2012 <--paper tiger-->, 2013 <--not looking good so far-->

I don't know if you can say we should win a super bowl within a certain time period. It's such a long shot to begin with. At the same time, if we don't get to the AFC Championship game this year, I won't argue that we were never a Super Bowl contender to begin with.

hradhak
10-06-2013, 07:03 PM
I think the only way Kubiak gets yanked is if the team misses the playoffs. McNair said as much 2 seasons ago when we signed Joseph and Manning.

I wonder if that does happen if Rick Smith would be a casualty of that as well. Overall I think he has done a good job of getting players into our system.

Pantherstang84
10-06-2013, 07:15 PM
I think the only way Kubiak gets yanked is if the team misses the playoffs. McNair said as much 2 seasons ago when we signed Joseph and Manning.

I wonder if that does happen if Rick Smith would be a casualty of that as well. Overall I think he has done a good job of getting players into our system.

If 6-10 was not enough to get fired, what makes you think missing the playoffs is?

hradhak
10-06-2013, 08:06 PM
If 6-10 was not enough to get fired, what makes you think missing the playoffs is?

Only that McNair said he would fire Kubes if they didn't go "deep in the playoffs". Not sure that he will follow through on that promise, but he has said it on tape now, so we have something to hold him on.

thetexanator
10-07-2013, 12:00 AM
i predict the team goes 9-7, misses the playoffs and he gets canned at the end of the season.

Texecutioner
10-07-2013, 12:02 AM
Well unfortunately you are way off if you think Kubiak is getting canned.

midway
10-07-2013, 12:03 AM
Well unfortunately you are way off if you think Kubiak is getting canned.

I think if we got 8-8 this year he'll be gone. Simply because McNair came out and made "Super Bowl or Bust" type predictions before the year.

fiasco west
10-07-2013, 12:04 AM
No way he goes in the middle of the season, I do think this is looking like his last year.

Texans can come back, it's only three games. Take it one game at a time and maybe they can hit a 6 game win streak or something but they need to finish the seasons strong for him to keep his job.

Otherwise they won't even make it to the playoffs, and I'd be surprised if even Bob keeps Kubiak after that.

cameronkrazie86
10-07-2013, 12:04 AM
Never.

thetexanator
10-07-2013, 12:05 AM
Well unfortunately you are way off if you think Kubiak is getting canned.

i think there will be enough of an uproar this time. Seems like 70 percent of people already want some change

WolverineFan
10-07-2013, 12:06 AM
We go 7-9 this year. McNair stands behind Kubes yet again.

Those 2 division titles that we won by default have given him a ton of equity that he doesn't deserve.

thetexanator
10-07-2013, 12:06 AM
No way he goes in the middle of the season, I do think this is looking like his last year.

Texans can come back, it's only three games. Take it one game at a time and maybe they can hit a 6 game win streak or something but they need to finish the seasons strong for him to keep his job.

Otherwise they won't even make it to the playoffs, and I'd be surprised if even Bob keeps Kubiak after that.yep, only possibly at end of season. and even then its a big if.

JCTexan
10-07-2013, 12:07 AM
Even during the 2-14 season Bob Mcnair didn't fire Capers until the season was over. So if the Texans don't make the playoffs... Monday, December 30th would be a good bet.

kiwitexansfan
10-07-2013, 12:07 AM
January 23rd















2018