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TimeKiller
09-28-2009, 12:51 PM
Well...I'm not on this bandwagon yet but....


4th and 1 staring the goalline down late in the game and you kick a field goal for a tie instead of an attempt at a go-ahead TD? Was it a lack of faith in the offense (unwarranted) or a plethora of faith in the defense (also extremely unwarranted)? Did you not want the momentum of converting a 4th down and probably a TD after that? Did you not want to eat up some clock against a team that relies on the ground game?

That's playing to "not lose", not playing to "win". YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAMES!!!!!

Vinny
09-28-2009, 12:53 PM
Well...I'm not on this bandwagon yet but....


4th and 1 staring the goalline down late in the game and you kick a field goal for a tie instead of an attempt at a go-ahead TD? Was it a lack of faith in the offense (unwarranted) or a plethora of faith in the defense (also extremely unwarranted)? Did you not want the momentum of converting a 4th down and probably a TD after that? Did you not want to eat up some clock against a team that relies on the ground game?

That's playing to "not lose", not playing to "win". YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAMES!!!!!you gotta take the points there.

eriadoc
09-28-2009, 12:57 PM
Well...I'm not on this bandwagon yet but....


4th and 1 staring the goalline down late in the game and you kick a field goal for a tie instead of an attempt at a go-ahead TD? Was it a lack of faith in the offense (unwarranted) or a plethora of faith in the defense (also extremely unwarranted)? Did you not want the momentum of converting a 4th down and probably a TD after that? Did you not want to eat up some clock against a team that relies on the ground game?

That's playing to "not lose", not playing to "win". YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAMES!!!!!

you gotta take the points there.

Yeah, there are a lot of things that you can fault Kubiak for, but being too conservative on offense is not one of them. He goes for it on 4th a lot more than most other coaches, and he does it from more than just 4th and 1, as well.

Chance_C
09-28-2009, 01:27 PM
Well...I'm not on this bandwagon yet but....


4th and 1 staring the goalline down late in the game and you kick a field goal for a tie instead of an attempt at a go-ahead TD? Was it a lack of faith in the offense (unwarranted) or a plethora of faith in the defense (also extremely unwarranted)? Did you not want the momentum of converting a 4th down and probably a TD after that? Did you not want to eat up some clock against a team that relies on the ground game?

That's playing to "not lose", not playing to "win". YOU PLAY TO WIN THE GAMES!!!!!

Well it wasn't like he was just out of field goal range, that would be the only time I go for it right there. If we would have went for it and not made it it would have been bad. Put those 3 on the board, and hope you can get the ball back to your offense, like we did.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2009, 01:34 PM
I'm not looking forward to going through another regime overhaul. :gun:

HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking."

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HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking."

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HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue."

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HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines"

nero THE zero
09-28-2009, 01:54 PM
I'm not looking forward to going through another regime overhaul. :gun:

HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit drinking."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit smoking."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit sniffing glue."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOU-TEX: "Looks like I picked the wrong week to quit amphetamines"
The talent level's there, there'd be no excuse to not contend immediately under a different coach.

Hell, I think it's still possible for us to content with this coach, I just don't think it's prudent to wait around for him to figure it out.

MannyFresh
09-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Well he has a press conference at 3:30 today so we'll see what smoke he blows today... can already feel the smoke tingling my ass.

Chance_C
09-28-2009, 02:14 PM
Well he has a press conference at 3:30 today so we'll see what smoke he blows today... can already feel the smoke tingling my ass.

It's all my fault......I have to do a better job...blah blah blah. Please Lord, even if we all agree with Kubiak, please let him light a fire under someone's ass

TimeKiller
09-28-2009, 02:36 PM
you gotta take the points there.

I respectfully disagree. Well sort of. They should've taken points there but they should've taken a 7 instead of a 3. If you're playing to win the game you go after the 7. What about the D inspired Kubiak to think it could handle holding a tie? He had his better unit sitting in prime position to put the pressure on the opponents and he left the game in the D's hands. Bad decision to me.

Well it wasn't like he was just out of field goal range, that would be the only time I go for it right there. If we would have went for it and not made it it would have been bad. Put those 3 on the board, and hope you can get the ball back to your offense, like we did.

If I'm not mistaken, the Jags got the ball back and scored 7? Made it 31-24?

Field Goal was the safe choice. Hindsight is always 20/20 but that turned out to be the wrong choice IMO.

bckey
09-28-2009, 02:39 PM
Well he has a press conference at 3:30 today so we'll see what smoke he blows today... can already feel the smoke tingling my ass.

I saw it listed on the front page earlier today on the official website but it has been removed or least I can't find it anywhere.


found it

Second Honeymoon
09-28-2009, 02:53 PM
It's all my fault......I have to do a better job...blah blah blah. Please Lord, even if we all agree with Kubiak, please let him light a fire under someone's ass

wishful thinking, chance.

he can't light a fire under his own flatlining ass much less someone else's.

this dude's act is tired, lame, and chock full of losing. he is what he is. a losing Head Coach.

FIRE BUSH NOW!! if Gary and Rick won't fire him, then FIRE THEM!!

another year going right down the crapper....

BigBull17
09-28-2009, 02:59 PM
Yeah I figured that - but i just wanted to gauge the H-town feel for him see if there was something to him. I hope he can run the table for the Cougars - at least most of you guys could find happiness with them. I want a proven NFL guy - not a college coach, hometown boy, or a relative of someone in the organization.

The only guy from college I would be OK with is Urban Meyer. That said, his system doesn't translate. He just was able to handle the jump from Utah to Florida, a huge upgrade in competition. Maybe he could make the jump up. That being said, I want a guy who has won, like Cowwer(he wont come) or Vermele(he wont either). Blah, life sucks.

MannyFresh
09-28-2009, 03:03 PM
The only guy from college I would be OK with is Urban Meyer. That said, his system doesn't translate. He just was able to handle the jump from Utah to Florida, a huge upgrade in competition. Maybe he could make the jump up. That being said, I want a guy who has won, like Cowwer(he wont come) or Vermele(he wont either). Blah, life sucks.

Everyone has a price...

BigBull17
09-28-2009, 03:09 PM
Everyone has a price...

We're gonna end up with a guy like Mooch.

MannyFresh
09-28-2009, 03:21 PM
We're gonna end up with a guy like Mooch.

Lord I hope not, he can stay on the NFL Network where he belongs....

MannyFresh
09-28-2009, 03:27 PM
Few more minutes to see what Kubes has to say...

brakos82
09-28-2009, 03:28 PM
Few more minutes to see what Kubes has to say...
I dunno, but some guy had this to say:


"Test. Test."


I think it was Kubiak's minions. LOL

bckey
09-28-2009, 03:38 PM
Well it sounds like Frank Bush's job is more than safe with Kubiak at the Helm.
He put it all on the players. He said Frank called a good game. Same old crap. He did say that some players are going to get a chance to play in place of some that are hurting the team. For sure he mentioned Jamison and Nading from the practice squad. Maybe Okoye will get benched.

eriadoc
09-28-2009, 03:52 PM
Well it sounds like Frank Bush's job is more than safe with Kubiak at the Helm.
He put it all on the players. He said Frank called a good game. Same old crap. He did say that some players are going to get a chance to play in place of some that are hurting the team. For sure he mentioned Jamison and Nading. Maybe Okoye will get benched.

Not to exonerate any coaches, but I'm not inclined to disagree with him, really. The players missed assignments left and right. Fire the coaches if you want, but the new coaches will still have crap to work with. Of course, the current coaches are no great shakes, either, so this team is just screwed.

TexansSeminole
09-28-2009, 03:58 PM
Not to exonerate any coaches, but I'm not inclined to disagree with him, really. The players missed assignments left and right. Fire the coaches if you want, but the new coaches will still have crap to work with. Of course, the current coaches are no great shakes, either, so this team is just screwed.

Well hopefully we can get someone that makes smart defensive personnel decisions. It won't take a long time to make this defense respectable, judging by what other organizations have done. This is their team, and their guys. Its not like this is Kubiak's first year.

What I think we all didn't see or understand when we hired Kubiak is that he doesn't understand defense at all. He pretty much leaves it to someone he wrongfully trusts and they fail. He doesn't have answers, all he can do is trust the guy he hired.

dalemurphy
09-28-2009, 04:02 PM
Do you realize that we still control our own destiny? Also, we have the same record as the Pittsburgh Steelers, Arizona Cardinals and a better record than Tennessee. We are tied for 2nd in the division.

Believe me, I'm disgusted with the blown opportunity yesterday and the poor defense. But, I also watched Pittsburgh Steelers blow a 2 score lead to Cincinnati after losing to the Bears last week. Those things happen and I'm not going to write the season off after a 1-2 start. Frustrating as this is, we need a little patience to see how the season develops.

If I see Amobi riding the bench, Pollard playing safety and Reeves getting reps at CB, I may dance a jig and then post my expectations for a 13 win season and a Superbowl run...

on the other hand, if I see the same starting 11 again this week, I may just throw myself off a cliff.

bckey
09-28-2009, 04:10 PM
What I think we all didn't see or understand when we hired Kubiak is that he doesn't understand defense at all. He pretty much leaves it to someone he wrongfully trusts and they fail. He doesn't have answers, all he can do is trust the guy he hired.

I think that pretty much sums it up.

bckey
09-28-2009, 04:13 PM
Do you realize that we still control our own destiny? Also, we have the same record as the Pittsburgh Steelers, Arizona Cardinals and a better record than Tennessee. We are tied for 2nd in the division.

I see what you are saying here Dale but I don't think anyone actually believes we are as good as any of those teams. Some may think we are better than the Titans but I don't. They could just as easily be 3-0. Fisher will get them out of the hole they are in.

dalemurphy
09-28-2009, 04:23 PM
I see what you are saying here Dale but I don't think anyone actually believes we are as good as any of those teams. Some may think we are better than the Titans but I don't. They could just as easily be 3-0. Fisher will get them out of the hole they are in.

fans of teams that suffer disappointing losses always have a very gray picture of the team while mired in the losing, particularly when they don't have a winning history. My point is that a 1-2 start doesn't disqualify this team from winning 10 games. That kind of thing happens in the NFL all the time. A lot of us believed this was a 10 win team going into the season and the fact that we are one game off pace of that shouldn't send us into outright despair.

When the NYGiants won the Superbowl, they struggled early.. and were BRUTAL on defense, adjusting to a new scheme but they got their 9 wins, made it to the playoffs and won the freakin' Superbowl. I'd love to read some of the posts and hear the thoughts of Giant fans after that early season loss to Dallas (45-35, I think).

DerekLee1
09-28-2009, 04:24 PM
The only AVAILABLE head coach I'd rather have here than Kubiak is Bill Cowher. Everyone else would be just as much a crapshoot as Kubiak. Gruden might be the best of the rest of the pack. And if either of those guys were hired, I'd want to keep Lil' Shanny here.

Otherwise, I say ride it out with Kubiak. He has this offense firing. If he could JUST get the defense to come around...

Texecutioner
09-28-2009, 04:27 PM
fans of teams that suffer disappointing losses always have a very gray picture of the team while mired in the losing, particularly when they don't have a winning history. My point is that a 1-2 start doesn't disqualify this team from winning 10 games. That kind of thing happens in the NFL all the time. A lot of us believed this was a 10 win team going into the season and the fact that we are one game off pace of that shouldn't send us into outright despair.

Yes it does, when you've got a defense that can't even hold two of the worst teams in the league to under 30 points. We are dreadful on defense and that's all there is to it. Hell we barely got by against that Titans team and could have almost been 0-3. This isn't a good football team. This is a football team with a great offense and ZERO leadership. A team with zero leadership doesn't go anywhere in the NFL.

When the NYGiants won the Superbowl, they struggled early.. and were BRUTAL on defense, adjusting to a new scheme but they got their 9 wins, made it to the playoffs and won the freakin' Superbowl. I'd love to read some of the posts and hear the thoughts of Giant fans after that early season loss to Dallas (45-35, I think).

Did you really just compare this defense to the one that the Giants had when they won the SB? I don't care how inconsistent they may have been at the beginning of the season. They were nowhere near as bad as this team's defense is.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2009, 04:28 PM
Do you realize that we still control our own destiny? Also, we have the same record as the Pittsburgh Steelers, Arizona Cardinals and a better record than Tennessee. We are tied for 2nd in the division.

Believe me, I'm disgusted with the blown opportunity yesterday and the poor defense. But, I also watched Pittsburgh Steelers blow a 2 score lead to Cincinnati after losing to the Bears last week. Those things happen and I'm not going to write the season off after a 1-2 start. Frustrating as this is, we need a little patience to see how the season develops.

If I see Amobi riding the bench, Pollard playing safety and Reeves getting reps at CB, I may dance a jig and then post my expectations for a 13 win season and a Superbowl run...

on the other hand, if I see the same starting 11 again this week, I may just throw myself off a cliff.

We also have the same record as the Lions and Raiders, but our defense is the worst of all of them.

If you believe any of that, I might have a bridge to sell ya.

bckey
09-28-2009, 04:30 PM
I can't find 9 wins in our remaining schedule no matter how hard I try. It is really brutal up to the bye. And to top it off we are starting out 0-2 at home. There will not be a wildcard team from the AFC south. I posted in another thread where I believe the AFC north and AFC east will produce the wildcard teams. And that means we would have to win our division. Not gonna happen. Check it out.

Sun. 4 RAIDERS
Sun. 11 @ Cardinals
Sun. 18 @ Bengals
Sun. 25 49ERS
Sun. 1 @ Bills
Sun. 8 @ Colts
BYE 15
Mon. 23 TITANS
Sun. 29 COLTS
Sun. 6 @ Jaguars
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS
Sun. 20 @ Rams
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins
Sun. 3 PATRIOTS

buddyboy
09-28-2009, 04:34 PM
I can't find 9 wins in our remaining schedule no matter how hard I try. It is really brutal up to the bye. And to top it off we are starting out 0-2 at home. There will not be a wildcard team from the AFC south. I posted in another thread where I believe the AFC north and AFC east will produce the wildcard teams. And that means we would have to win our division. Not gonna happen. Check it out.

Sun. 4 RAIDERS
Sun. 11 @ Cardinals
Sun. 18 @ Bengals
Sun. 25 49ERS
Sun. 1 @ Bills
Sun. 8 @ Colts
BYE 15
Mon. 23 TITANS
Sun. 29 COLTS
Sun. 6 @ Jaguars
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS
Sun. 20 @ Rams
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins
Sun. 3 PATRIOTS

I think the bolded ones we have a decent chance of winning. Hopefully the pats aren't playing for anything in the last week. Haha, we'd really get in a groove if we won our last 6 games. And then we'd still have to win one of those games after the Raiders game to have a chance at the playoffs.

DerekLee1
09-28-2009, 04:36 PM
This is a football team with a great offense and ZERO leadership. A team with zero leadership doesn't go anywhere in the NFL.

I disagree that this team has "zero leadership". Matt Schaub leads by example and makes sure everyone on his offense is on the same page. Andre Johnson plays with more grit than anyone else I've ever seen. Demeco Ryans has more fire than anyone else on this team and plays with the energy and passion of Troy Polamalu.

Just because Kubiak doesn't spit on his players or tongue kiss them on the sidelines doesn't make him a poor leader. It makes him stoic. Bear Bryant was stoic. Tom Landry was stoic. Mike Holmgren was stoic. I'm not saying Kubiak is one of those guys, but don't mistake his lack of screaming for lack of passion or ability.

bckey
09-28-2009, 04:37 PM
I think the bolded ones we have a decent chance of winning. Hopefully the pats aren't playing for anything in the last week. Haha, we'd really get in a groove if we won our last 6 games. And then we'd still have to win one of those games after the Raiders game to have a chance at the playoffs.

That would only put us at 8-8 or 9-7 if we get a win somewhere else like you said. That won't win the division.

DerekLee1
09-28-2009, 04:41 PM
I can't find 9 wins in our remaining schedule no matter how hard I try. It is really brutal up to the bye. And to top it off we are starting out 0-2 at home. There will not be a wildcard team from the AFC south. I posted in another thread where I believe the AFC north and AFC east will produce the wildcard teams. And that means we would have to win our division. Not gonna happen. Check it out.

Sun. 4 RAIDERS
Sun. 11 @ Cardinals
Sun. 18 @ Bengals
Sun. 25 49ERS
Sun. 1 @ Bills
Sun. 8 @ Colts
BYE 15
Mon. 23 TITANS
Sun. 29 COLTS
Sun. 6 @ Jaguars
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS
Sun. 20 @ Rams
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins
Sun. 3 PATRIOTS

Bullhockey. I see 13 potential wins. If we beat the Titans in their house, what makes you think we couldn't beat them in our OWN house on MNF? The Bengals and Bills? They're decent, but beatable. The Colts are tough, but also beatable.

Come on, now. It just depends on WHICH Texans team shows up. It's like Jekyll and Hyde every week. A week ago everyone was shouting the praises of these guys, now it's all doom and gloom. I know our defense sucks, but a play or two goes our way, we win yesterday's game. Our offense is good enough to keep us in ANY game. We just need our defense to come around.

HOU-TEX
09-28-2009, 04:47 PM
Bullhockey. I see 13 potential wins. If we beat the Titans in their house, what makes you think we couldn't beat them in our OWN house on MNF? The Bengals and Bills? They're decent, but beatable. The Colts are tough, but also beatable.

Come on, now. It just depends on WHICH Texans team shows up. It's like Jekyll and Hyde every week. A week ago everyone was shouting the praises of these guys, now it's all doom and gloom. I know our defense sucks, but a play or two goes our way, we win yesterday's game. Our offense is good enough to keep us in ANY game. We just need our defense to come around.

I wouldn't paint with such broad strokes. While happy with the W, there were some of us that knew better.

Easier said than done

Kulluminatii
09-28-2009, 04:51 PM
Saw this on the Raiders forums...couldn't resist not posting it here...

Maybe you guys should look into getting this guy as your new HC :shades:.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6s23JTmfJOY&feature=player_embedded

*EDIT* Forgot to mention, IM JOKING, just thought I'd say that before I get flamed off of this forum :heart:. But it does make you wonder, having a guy like him wouldn't be THAT bad (I'm talking about the Raiders as well as the Texans).

dalemurphy
09-28-2009, 04:53 PM
Yes it does, when you've got a defense that can't even hold two of the worst teams in the league to under 30 points. We are dreadful on defense and that's all there is to it. Hell we barely got by against that Titans team and could have almost been 0-3. This isn't a good football team. This is a football team with a great offense and ZERO leadership. A team with zero leadership doesn't go anywhere in the NFL.



Did you really just compare this defense to the one that the Giants had when they won the SB? I don't care how inconsistent they may have been at the beginning of the season. They were nowhere near as bad as this team's defense is.


week one versus Dallas
45 points
345 passing yards on 15 completions!
135 rushing yards

week two versus GB
35 points
375 total yards


they got things straightened out after that.. but, for a team with as many veterans and as much talent, it was a pretty rough start. And, I remember a lot of panic from the fanbase and media those first two weeks.

I'm not saying we are the '07 Giants, but I am saying that 2 very poor efforts on defense doesn't mean this team can't get a lot better... and quickly.

Goldensilence
09-28-2009, 04:59 PM
week one versus Dallas
45 points
345 passing yards on 15 completions!
135 rushing yards

week two versus GB
35 points
375 total yards


they got things straightened out after that.. but, for a team with as many veterans and as much talent, it was a pretty rough start. And, I remember a lot of panic from the fanbase and media those first two weeks.

I'm not saying we are the '07 Giants, but I am saying that 2 very poor efforts on defense doesn't mean this team can't get a lot better... and quickly.

Dale,

I usually agree with what you've got to say. I guess you're still holding out hope for the season and a possible turn around on defense.

Based on the history of this team the play will turn around when they hit about 2-6 and the playoffs will be out of the question. They have sufficiently worked out enough kinks on the defense to make a late season run to finish at....8-8.

I'm somewhere in between wanting to see a turnaround for my temporary sanity with this team, and my long term sanity of them spiraling completely and getting Kubiak fired. At least then I might have a glimmer of hope McNair will be forced to bring in a winning coach.

silvrhand
09-28-2009, 05:57 PM
Just because Kubiak doesn't spit on his players or tongue kiss them on the sidelines doesn't make him a poor leader. It makes him stoic. Bear Bryant was stoic. Tom Landry was stoic. Mike Holmgren was stoic. I'm not saying Kubiak is one of those guys, but don't mistake his lack of screaming for lack of passion or ability.

Bryant, a stoic coach? Not sure where you got that from.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Junction_Boys

Holmgren has had his share of meltdowns on the sideline, the red face syndrome was quite obvious.

toronto
09-28-2009, 10:32 PM
I said earlier in this thread that if I was Bob McNair after the Jets game I would be thinking to myself that Gary needs 10 wins to keep his job. That is still the number but I would like to throw out another name that I don't believe has been mentioned in this thread. Leslie Frazier, DC Minnesota.

He has been a pretty hot candidate the last couple of years and he just missed out on getting one of the jobs last year. I think it is almost a guarantee that he will be a head coach for someone next year. This is a guy that, while he can't bring his defensive line with him, knows what it takes to win in the trenches on defense. I would trust him to drop the dead weight on our line and start finding some real players to put around Mario. He doesn't need to shake up the offense a great deal either. As a side note, he is likely to be choice numero uno for at least a couple teams so the fact that his son is a WR at Rice might help make us more attractive.

I strongly disagree. You went the OC/new coach route on Kubiak, and before that the DC route on Capers, right?

From someone that isn't emotionally invested in your club (as a Tack fan, lord knows I have my own issues right now) I can tell you that what I've seen so far suggests your teams needs a fiery leader that can kick this team in the ass. Right now there are two Super Bowl champion coaches in the booth, and I'm convinced either Gruden or Cowher are the necessary guys that need to be brought in for the Texans to truly get to the next level.

Just my .02.

Goldensilence
09-29-2009, 12:17 AM
I strongly disagree. You went the OC/new coach route on Kubiak, and before that the DC route on Capers, right?

From someone that isn't emotionally invested in your club (as a Tack fan, lord knows I have my own issues right now) I can tell you that what I've seen so far suggests your teams needs a fiery leader that can kick this team in the ass. Right now there are two Super Bowl champion coaches in the booth, and I'm convinced either Gruden or Cowher are the necessary guys that need to be brought in for the Texans to truly get to the next level.

Just my .02.


While I'd love to get Bill Cowher here, I can pretty much leave that to a wish list.

Don't get why people like Gruden as a coach for here. Other then winning the SB with Dungy's team he didn't do a whole lot there. His had lost his team way before he was let before this year.

ChampionTexan
09-29-2009, 12:33 AM
Don't get why people like Gruden as a coach for here. Other then winning the SB with Dungy's team he didn't do a whole lot there. His had lost his team way before he was let before this year.

I'm no huge Gruden fan, and would be less than thrilled if he ever became the coach of the Texans, but I believe he showed far more as the coach of the Raiders than he ever did in Tampa. His four years there were a pretty impressive deviation in an otherwise incredible trend downward. I think when he got to Tampa, he won a Super Bowl, and then started believing all the good things everyone was saying about him.

Jackie Chiles
09-29-2009, 12:57 AM
I strongly disagree. You went the OC/new coach route on Kubiak, and before that the DC route on Capers, right?

From someone that isn't emotionally invested in your club (as a Tack fan, lord knows I have my own issues right now) I can tell you that what I've seen so far suggests your teams needs a fiery leader that can kick this team in the ass. Right now there are two Super Bowl champion coaches in the booth, and I'm convinced either Gruden or Cowher are the necessary guys that need to be brought in for the Texans to truly get to the next level.

Just my .02.

Capers was a HC before we made him ours. What you say about needing a fiery guy could very well be true but Frazier has the potential to be the next Mike Smith imo. Or maybe we come after Fisher if you guys don't get it turned around :)

DexmanC
09-29-2009, 01:38 AM
I disagree that this team has "zero leadership". Matt Schaub leads by example and makes sure everyone on his offense is on the same page. Andre Johnson plays with more grit than anyone else I've ever seen. Demeco Ryans has more fire than anyone else on this team and plays with the energy and passion of Troy Polamalu.

Just because Kubiak doesn't spit on his players or tongue kiss them on the sidelines doesn't make him a poor leader. It makes him stoic. Bear Bryant was stoic. Tom Landry was stoic. Mike Holmgren was stoic. I'm not saying Kubiak is one of those guys, but don't mistake his lack of screaming for lack of passion or ability.

Nice blast at the Bill Cowher/Joey Porter slobdown.
:smooch:

toronto
09-29-2009, 01:59 AM
Capers was a HC before we made him ours. What you say about needing a fiery guy could very well be true but Frazier has the potential to be the next Mike Smith imo. Or maybe we come after Fisher if you guys don't get it turned around :)

Not hijacking the thread, but I'm of the mindset that Fisher may need to go. Not that I don't love the guy, but 15 years, no ring. When does his **** start to stink?

toronto
09-29-2009, 02:08 AM
I'm no huge Gruden fan, and would be less than thrilled if he ever became the coach of the Texans, but I believe he showed far more as the coach of the Raiders than he ever did in Tampa. His four years there were a pretty impressive deviation in an otherwise incredible trend downward. I think when he got to Tampa, he won a Super Bowl, and then started believing all the good things everyone was saying about him.

Very accurate points - I happen to think that being on the sidelines and press box will make him a better coach now, just can't have him part of the personnel decision team IMO.

If you want an assistant IMO that is ready for a gig and has a good personality for HC, Ron Rivera is due.

Dan B.
09-29-2009, 02:11 AM
Not hijacking the thread, but I'm of the mindset that Fisher may need to go. Not that I don't love the guy, but 15 years, no ring. When does his **** start to stink?

I cannot begin to tell you how quickly I would jump on Fisher if I were McNair and he were available. I'd hire Schottenheimer in a heartbeat as well, with the same (lack of) hesitation. I understand your frustration, but rings are fickle, unpredictable things. I don't fault Fisher for having come as close as he has so many times. Cowher was no less of a coach before 2006.

Dan B.
09-29-2009, 02:12 AM
Very accurate points - I happen to think that being on the sidelines and press box will make him a better coach now, just can't have him part of the personnel decision team IMO.

If you want an assistant IMO that is ready for a gig and has a good personality for HC, Ron Rivera is due.

I like Ron Rivera a lot. Haven't been a big Gruden fan for the last several years. I don't want him.

toronto
09-29-2009, 02:40 AM
I cannot begin to tell you how quickly I would jump on Fisher if I were McNair and he were available. I'd hire Schottenheimer in a heartbeat as well, with the same (lack of) hesitation. I understand your frustration, but rings are fickle, unpredictable things. I don't fault Fisher for having come as close as he has so many times. Cowher was no less of a coach before 2006.

I'd hire Fisher a hell of a lot quicker than I'd hire Schottenheimer. Fisher doesn't screw up that loaded team that choked at home to NE. Of course I type that knowing what happened to the Titans last year versus BAL.

And to me, rings are fickle, but at the end of the day, that is ultimately what you should be judged on. Fish had a loaded team in 2000 with homefield and another loaded team last year with homefield, and both times the team completely choked. Playoff losses to STL, NE, SD and OAK don't help either. The man can coach, but can he finish? I'm running out of hope that he can do that.

UK_Texan
09-29-2009, 03:25 AM
Pink soap anyone?

CoastalTexan
09-29-2009, 07:42 AM
Ron Rivera looks like Samurai Mikes puerto rican brother.

Ron
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2007/writers/jeffri_chadiha/02/01/rivera/t1_rivera.jpg

Mike
http://cdn0.sbnation.com/entry_photo_images/83039/45210_49ers_draft_football.jpg

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 10:44 AM
Cowher is the only coach AVAILABLE (<---- key word) that would be worth firing Kubiak for. And unless he's already called Bob McNair and said, "Hey, Bob - if you decide to make a change, I'm available", then it's not worth the risk. You may end up with some other castoff like Big Shanny, Dick Jauron, or Herm Edwards if you do and Cowher says no. I'd rather ride the storm with Kubiak as long as he has the offensive side of the ball working. He'll eventually get the defense turned around.

And don't even think about Fisher. He's done enough in Tennessee to earn at least 3 consecutive bad seasons before being fired. He's not going anywhere.

Second Honeymoon
09-29-2009, 10:47 AM
Cowher is the only coach AVAILABLE (<---- key word) that would be worth firing Kubiak for. And unless he's already called Bob McNair and said, "Hey, Bob - if you decide to make a change, I'm available", then it's not worth the risk. You may end up with some other castoff like Big Shanny, Dick Jauron, or Herm Edwards if you do and Cowher says no. I'd rather ride the storm with Kubiak as long as he has the offensive side of the ball working. He'll eventually get the defense turned around.

what makes you think he will get the defense turned around? this is year 4 and its still not turned around...are we supposed to just sit around and be a losing franchise until Gary finally hires someone worth a crap.

As for Dick Jauron and Herm Edwards, both of those coaches are better than Kubiak and so is Gruden, Cowher, Schotty, Shanahan, and just about anyone.

Gary has done a great job with the offense but has been a disaster with defense.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 10:51 AM
:thinking:

Fred Bennett
Dunta Robinson
John Busing
Eugene Wilson
Amobi Okoye

HOU-TEX
09-29-2009, 10:53 AM
:thinking:

Fred Bennett
Dunta Robinson
John Busing
Eugene Wilson
Amobi Okoye

:confused:

Where you going with this, TB?

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 10:54 AM
what makes you think he will get the defense turned around? this is year 4 and its still not turned around...are we supposed to just sit around and be a losing franchise until Gary finally hires someone worth a crap.

As for Dick Jauron and Herm Edwards, both of those coaches are better than Kubiak and so is Gruden, Cowher, Schotty, Shanahan, and just about anyone.

Gary has done a great job with the offense but has been a disaster with defense.

He's still a first-time head coach. He had an absolute mess on both sides of the ball. He focused on his forte - the offense - for four years and trusted Dick Smith to take care of the defense. Smith was a failure, and you can tell just from his press conferences and talk shows that his focus is for the first time 100% on defense. Yeah, he might have taken a year too long to turn to the defense, but again - it's a mistake I think a first-timer could make. I'm still on the side of keeping him through his contract, no matter how this season turns out, as long as the offense is still a top producer. If one side of the ball is firing and you can put it on auto-pilot, everyone in the organization can crack the whip on the other side.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 10:58 AM
:confused:

Where you going with this, TB?

Yeah, I was wondering that too. Okoye had a strong game this week (probably the only guy on defense that did) and if he continues, looks like he may finally be developing into a worthy first-round pick. We didn't draft Busing or Wilson, Bennett was a 4th round pick...and Dunta had a career-hindering injury. They're TRYING to fix the defense, but there's only so many early picks and so much money to go around.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 11:02 AM
:confused:

Where you going with this, TB?

They all suck. I don't care who is coaching them up.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 11:03 AM
Yeah, I was wondering that too. Okoye had a strong game this week (probably the only guy on defense that did) and if he continues, looks like he may finally be developing into a worthy first-round pick. We didn't draft Busing or Wilson, Bennett was a 4th round pick...and Dunta had a career-hindering injury. They're TRYING to fix the defense, but there's only so many early picks and so much money to go around.

1 game in 3 seasons?

***************************

/End rant. I just didn't get my frustrations out yesterday. Those guys are great.

drewmar74
09-29-2009, 11:12 AM
I'd hire Schottenheimer in a heartbeat as well, with the same (lack of) hesitation.

I'd hire Fisher a hell of a lot quicker than I'd hire Schottenheimer. Fisher doesn't screw up that loaded team that choked at home to NE. Of course I type that knowing what happened to the Titans last year versus BAL.

I'd go for some Martyball at this point. I'm beginning to have my doubts about Kubiak's ability to get this ship completely righted. Maybe I'm jumping the gun, but that D just hasn't gotten any better. The team is really inconsistent, IMO, and I keep thinking that it has to go back to the coach. Period. Other teams are doing more with less - why isn't Gary?

I know Marty is a choker, but his teams are at least relevant in December which is a damn sight more than I can say for Kubiak so far. If Marty were to come in (which I doubt and all of this is strictly waaaay out in left field pie in the sky conjecture) and get this team on the right track, then we might have an easier time getting a big name coach to come in. Not many coaches want to come in and take over a turd.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 11:13 AM
1 game in 3 seasons?

***************************

/End rant. I just didn't get my frustrations out yesterday. Those guys are great.

He was 19. I'll cut him some slack.

*one of these days my optimism will be the death of me.

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 11:16 AM
He was 19. I'll cut him some slack.

*one of these days my optimism will be the death of me.


LOL... Your optimism is probably a good thing. I go from optimism to doom and gloom in a 3 hour period on any given Sunday.

Honoring Earl 34
09-29-2009, 11:20 AM
1 game in 3 seasons?

***************************

/End rant. I just didn't get my frustrations out yesterday. Those guys are great.

I think I'm tired of slow SS/FS , bad CBs , shopping cart DTs , 1 DE , but hey the LBs are looking better .

Their on their 3rd DL coach in 4 years ... hmmm .... maybe it's not the coach . We're on the 2nd DB coach ... hmmm ... maybe it's not the coach .

I'm tired of a small OL to . How I yearn for a big physical OL who can dominate a game . The good news is we may already have some pieces .

Having said all the above , if we lose the next 2/3 ... I'm firing folks . If we are not in the playoff race come December ... firing . That's not just Kubiak , it's Smith also , who's forte is supposed to be scouting DB's .

Second Honeymoon
09-29-2009, 11:47 AM
it's not hte coaches fault, its the fault of the guys who are hiring such bad and unqualified coaches.

when you nickel and dime on coaches, this is what you get. Kollar is the first coach who actually was coveted by other teams that we convinced to come here to help our defense.

i am just sick of excuses. this is year 4 and Kubiak still doesnt have a decent defense. THAT IS ON HIM. No excuses. He hired Smith. He hired Bush.

Both guys suck. There is no debate. There is enough talent to win if the scheme is run competently. The coaching staff on defense is incompetent.

It really is that easy. Ray Rhodes is way past his prime. Kollar is good but everyone else sucks and that includes Bush.

Do we have to sit through another 2-14 season before we can actually get some change in this organization? I am sick of this pathetic coaching staff.

It's a nickel and dime staff comprised of losers and cronies and Kollar.

dalemurphy
09-29-2009, 12:00 PM
it's not hte coaches fault, its the fault of the guys who are hiring such bad and unqualified coaches.

when you nickel and dime on coaches, this is what you get. Kollar is the first coach who actually was coveted by other teams that we convinced to come here to help our defense.

i am just sick of excuses. this is year 4 and Kubiak still doesnt have a decent defense. THAT IS ON HIM. No excuses. He hired Smith. He hired Bush.

Both guys suck. There is no debate. There is enough talent to win if the scheme is run competently. The coaching staff on defense is incompetent.

It really is that easy. Ray Rhodes is way past his prime. Kollar is good but everyone else sucks and that includes Bush.

Do we have to sit through another 2-14 season before we can actually get some change in this organization? I am sick of this pathetic coaching staff.

It's a nickel and dime staff comprised of losers and cronies and Kollar.


SH, It's a valid point to want a more experienced staff. However, the constant insinuation you make that McNair hires the men he does in order to save a buck is baseless. There is no evidence to suggest that is the case. McNair's original hires at GM, head coach, and OC were all men with a lot of experience.

I'm still expecting 10 wins this year, so I'm not ready to jump off the cliff. In 2005, I was already rooting against the team by week 3 because I wanted a bad enough season to clean house. I don't see anything resembling that situation happening this season.

If Kubiak fails, I would love to see Schottenheimer come in here. I think he's a great coach and find the "choker" label to be quite silly.

Second Honeymoon
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
SH, It's a valid point to want a more experienced staff. However, the constant insinuation you make that McNair hires the men he does in order to save a buck is baseless. There is no evidence to suggest that is the case. McNair's original hires at GM, head coach, and OC were all men with a lot of experience.

I'm still expecting 10 wins this year, so I'm not ready to jump off the cliff. In 2005, I was already rooting against the team by week 3 because I wanted a bad enough season to clean house. I don't see anything resembling that situation happening this season.

If Kubiak fails, I would love to see Schottenheimer come in here. I think he's a great coach and find the "choker" label to be quite silly.

so he didn't hire them to save money? why else did he hire them? it sure wasn't their experience or qualifications.

I am just trying to find a reason that Bush was hired/promoted. The only reason i can come up with is that he is Kubiaks friend and I am sure it didn't hurt that he was dirt cheap and already on the payroll.

just sayin...

dalemurphy
09-29-2009, 12:09 PM
so he didn't hire them to save money? why else did he hire them? it sure wasn't their experience or qualifications.

I am just trying to find a reason that Bush was hired/promoted. The only reason i can come up with is that he is Kubiaks friend and I am sure it didn't hurt that he was dirt cheap and already on the payroll.

just sayin...

There are reasons to hire a guy other than experience. McNair was impressed with Kubiak. You know, the NFL has a high opinion of the guy and he would've been a head coach somewhere. Regarding Bush, I think McNair had absolutely nothing to do with that hire. And, he is right to not dictate hirings to Kubiak. Kubiak believed in Bush and wanted him as his DC back in 2006. I'm not sure his exact reasonings but I'm sure it wasn't to save Bob McNair a few $100,000.

Personally, I kind of like the Bush hire and am optimistic about him. I think this season's problems go directly to how Kubiak, Smith, and Bush assessed the talent on the team. For reasons I don't understand, they decided to stand pat at Safety... As a result, we are in a world of trouble back there.

nero THE zero
09-29-2009, 12:15 PM
It's not even like Kubiak lacked qualifications, either.

He has a handful of SB rings, have coached under one of the best offensive systems in the league, played next to one of the best QB in the history of the league, and had extensive experience calling plays in the NFL. He was entirely qualified to take a head coaching position.

And, to top that off, he is pretty much a polar opposite of Capers.

I don't know if McNair would be unwilling to spend the money on a great head coach, but he's never given me a reason to think he wouldn't and, to the contrary, has done everything to make me think he would

TheRealJoker
09-29-2009, 12:17 PM
He's still a first-time head coach.

No he's not, this is his 4th year as a head coach. Eventually that excuse has to go. Especially after 3 teams including the 1-15 Dolphins made the playoffs with real first time head coaches last season.

He's had 4 years and aside from the offense we still have the same terrible defense (although now at least we have Mario, Meco, and Cushing), the same inconsistent performances, and the same terrible game management. Not to mention there is no team in the NFL who undervalues the safety and DT positions like we do! Only time Smithiak took a real shot at either of them they draft a project DT ahead of NFL ready players like SEC DPOY Patrick Willis and CB Darelle Revis.

Kubiak's inability to hire out of his comfort zone will prove to be the nail in the coffin for his Head Coaching run in Houston.

drewmar74
09-29-2009, 12:19 PM
If Kubiak fails, I would love to see Schottenheimer come in here. I think he's a great coach and find the "choker" label to be quite silly.

I won't argue that he's a great coach. I wholeheartedly support that notion. You can't deny the 200-126-1 coaching record.... He's 5-13 in the postseason, though, and SD getting "debacled" by NE back in 07 still jumps out at me.

All that said, I'm all for some martyball.

Battle Red Flash
09-29-2009, 01:53 PM
Can we blame the players? Yes, but it ain't all their fault.

If Dungy was head coach, and Rex Ryan was D-Coordinator, would the Texans D be this bad with the exact same players?

NO FREAKING WAY.

Marcus
09-29-2009, 02:53 PM
:thinking:

Fred Bennett
Dunta Robinson
John Busing
Eugene Wilson
Amobi Okoye

Can we blame the players? Yes, but it ain't all their fault.

If Dungy was head coach, and Rex Ryan was D-Coordinator, would the Texans D be this bad with the exact same players?

NO FREAKING WAY.

Umm . . YES, THEY WOULD.

You can get any spoon out of the drawer, but the pot of soup will still have those same players in it.

(There is no debate. End of story) LOL!

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 03:25 PM
Umm . . YES, THEY WOULD.

You can get any spoon out of the drawer, but the pot of soup will still have those same players in it.

(There is no debate. End of story) LOL!

Well said! And to add to that, any team would LOVE to have that combo of coaches. That's like saying, "if our defense had Darelle Rivas and Troy Polamalu, we could be the best defense ever". It ain't gonna happen, so stop with the hypotheticals.

drewmar74
09-29-2009, 03:43 PM
Well said! And to add to that, any team would LOVE to have that combo of coaches. That's like saying, "if our defense had Darelle Rivas and Troy Polamalu, we could be the best defense ever". It ain't gonna happen, so stop with the hypotheticals.

Good coaches can scheme to hide weaknesses and play to strengths. Do ours do that?

ummmmm.......

Unless we're running some kind of bizarro scheme that hides strengths and emphasizes weaknesses but I doubt that.... sort of.

Our defense = http://www.quickstopentertainment.com/comics101/images/2005/oct19/bizarro.jpg

Second Honeymoon
09-29-2009, 03:44 PM
There are reasons to hire a guy other than experience. McNair was impressed with Kubiak. You know, the NFL has a high opinion of the guy and he would've been a head coach somewhere. Regarding Bush, I think McNair had absolutely nothing to do with that hire. And, he is right to not dictate hirings to Kubiak. Kubiak believed in Bush and wanted him as his DC back in 2006. I'm not sure his exact reasonings but I'm sure it wasn't to save Bob McNair a few $100,000.

Personally, I kind of like the Bush hire and am optimistic about him. I think this season's problems go directly to how Kubiak, Smith, and Bush assessed the talent on the team. For reasons I don't understand, they decided to stand pat at Safety... As a result, we are in a world of trouble back there.

what? you kind of like the Bush hire? you do realize we are on pace to give up more yards than any team in NFL HISTORY!! you do realize he was partially responsible for the horrible defense we have had here the last 2 years, right?

what do you like about the Bush hire? honestly, bro. what has bush done that has made you 'like' the hire? I don't get it.

once again, we are on pace to give up more yards than anyone in NFL history..2 of those games were home games and all 3 were against teams that aren't exactly offensive juggernauts....

i understand that you go down with the ship, dale. that is fine, but you have to at least acknowledge that the defensive ship is sinking and Bush is ultimately responsible for that.

so you release Bush of any blame but you are OK with blaming Kubiak and Smith for the personnel moves....you know what personnel move I think was their worst move. Hiring Bush! (other than resigning Carr to max extension of course..but that was probably Bumbling Bob's fault)

nero THE zero
09-29-2009, 03:52 PM
Umm . . YES, THEY WOULD.

You can get any spoon out of the drawer, but the pot of soup will still have those same players in it.

(There is no debate. End of story) LOL!

I disgaree wholeheartedly. The Texans' defense is entirely more talented than they are playing. Obviously there are holes, but a defense featuring guys like Dunta, DeMeco, and Mario are not 32nd in the league bad no matter how you try and spin it.

AJ had a great article (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m9d28-Texans-defensive-woes-personnel-scheme-or-learning-curve?cid=examiner-email) on that very topic last night:
Some of you may have heard a local radio talk show host rant for the past 24-36 hours about how the Texans defensive woes are due to 'no talent' and as a result he's giving Texans defensive coordinator Frank Bush 'a pass' for the Texans putrid performance over the first three games.

...

The first thing that struck me after hearing that comment was that the Texans had the 22nd ranked defense (in yards per game) last season with no better personnel, and after three games this season, the Texans will most likely be dead last in the league (that would be 32nd) after the completion of tonight's Dallas - Carolina game.

So if the Texans have 'no talent' on defense, is the radio host suggesting the Texans fall from 22 to 32 is due to the loss of Anthony Weaver, Travis Johnson, Morlon Greenwood, Will Demps and C.C. Brown?

AJ plays it safe with his argument and posits that the Texans' personnel is no worse than last season's. I'd comfortably venture that the Texans' personnel is better than last season's. Either way, it'd be pretty hard to argue that we're worse, and if we're not worse personnel-wise, we have to be worse coaching-wise.

Second Honeymoon
09-29-2009, 04:17 PM
FIRE FRANK BUSH..do we have to wait for 3 years like we did with Dick Smith?

Kubiak sucks so bad to hire this guy. Kubiak make some new friends. Your friends suck at coaching.

Silver Oak
09-29-2009, 04:34 PM
Umm . . YES, THEY WOULD.

You can get any spoon out of the drawer, but the pot of soup will still have those same players in it.

(There is no debate. End of story) LOL!

I disgaree wholeheartedly. The Texans' defense is entirely more talented than they are playing. Obviously there are holes, but a defense featuring guys like Dunta, DeMeco, and Mario are not 32nd in the league bad no matter how you try and spin it.

AJ had a great article (http://www.examiner.com/x-778-Houston-Texans-Examiner~y2009m9d28-Texans-defensive-woes-personnel-scheme-or-learning-curve?cid=examiner-email) on that very topic last night:
Some of you may have heard a local radio talk show host rant for the past 24-36 hours about how the Texans defensive woes are due to 'no talent' and as a result he's giving Texans defensive coordinator Frank Bush 'a pass' for the Texans putrid performance over the first three games.

...

The first thing that struck me after hearing that comment was that the Texans had the 22nd ranked defense (in yards per game) last season with no better personnel, and after three games this season, the Texans will most likely be dead last in the league (that would be 32nd) after the completion of tonight's Dallas - Carolina game.

So if the Texans have 'no talent' on defense, is the radio host suggesting the Texans fall from 22 to 32 is due to the loss of Anthony Weaver, Travis Johnson, Morlon Greenwood, Will Demps and C.C. Brown?

AJ plays it safe with his argument and posits that the Texans' personnel is no worse than last season's. I'd comfortably venture that the Texans' personnel is better than last season's. Either way, it'd be pretty hard to argue that we're worse, and if we're not worse personnel-wise, we have to be worse coaching-wise.

We would have been wise to factor in a learning curve with whatever Bush wants to do differently. Especially with Cushing and Dunta missing camp.

Double Barrel
09-29-2009, 04:40 PM
We would have been wise to factor in a learning curve with whatever Bush wants to do differently. Especially with Cushing and Dunta missing camp.

I think this is key. We honestly can't expect a new DC and new scheme to be effective immediately, especially with two big starters out in TC.

Only time will tell if the defense is going to gel into a cohesive unit. I tend to think we'll see some improvements as time goes on, especially around the halfway mark. Our offense is set to compete with just about anybody, so any improvement on D will most likely result in another 8-8 season (or maybe 9-7 / 7-9, lots of close games ahead).

As far as firing Kubiak or anyone else right now, I am not a fan of mid-season coaching changes. The Palmer situation during 2-14 was a clear indication that the season was essentially over, and without trying to be optimistic, I still think there is a possibility of this season changing course for a more positive destination. Firing coaches is a one way ticket to rebuilding hell. (Don't bank on new HCs turning it around in a year, in spite of what has happened with other teams. This is HOUSTON, after all....)

Texan_Bill
09-29-2009, 04:42 PM
Is Vic Fangio available?? *ducks punches from every direction*

:hides:

Mr. White
09-29-2009, 05:08 PM
We would have been wise to factor in a learning curve with whatever Bush wants to do differently. Especially with Cushing and Dunta missing camp.

Maybe if it were his first year on the job, but not a team that's trying to get over the hump. That's why they should have hired a guy that's held the position before.

Kubiak knew what he was getting into when he went with Bush. He had ZERO margin for error.

drewmar74
09-29-2009, 05:08 PM
Is Vic Fangio available?? *ducks punches from every direction*

:hides:

:dontknowa

Kubiak knew what he was getting into when he went with Bush. He had ZERO margin for error.

The same person that advises Kubiak on when to challenge a play must have advised him on the defensive coordinator position.....

Goldensilence
09-29-2009, 05:32 PM
Maybe if it were his first year on the job, but not a team that's trying to get over the hump. That's why they should have hired a guy that's held the position before.

Kubiak knew what he was getting into when he went with Bush. He had ZERO margin for error.

Great post. Kubiak should've known that his job and a chance at the playoffs was on the line.

I guess the other thing I have to ask is that Bush knew what he had to work with regardless of not having Reeves and Cushing during TC. I don't get how it didn't occur to him at some point during OTAs, TC and Preseason we had crap at safety and didn't make a move to address it.

I guess he was waiting for a patented Texans wait until a few weeks into the season to make a move at safety.

TexansSeminole
09-29-2009, 05:43 PM
I think this is key. We honestly can't expect a new DC and new scheme to be effective immediately, especially with two big starters out in TC.

Only time will tell if the defense is going to gel into a cohesive unit. I tend to think we'll see some improvements as time goes on, especially around the halfway mark. Our offense is set to compete with just about anybody, so any improvement on D will most likely result in another 8-8 season (or maybe 9-7 / 7-9, lots of close games ahead).

As far as firing Kubiak or anyone else right now, I am not a fan of mid-season coaching changes. The Palmer situation during 2-14 was a clear indication that the season was essentially over, and without trying to be optimistic, I still think there is a possibility of this season changing course for a more positive destination. Firing coaches is a one way ticket to rebuilding hell. (Don't bank on new HCs turning it around in a year, in spite of what has happened with other teams. This is HOUSTON, after all....)

First, let me say that I am not for firing Kubiak in the middle of the season. I do think he is pretty close to earning the "will be fired" title, if he isn't already there.

About the D scheme, I thought it was the same scheme only different playcalling. Seems that we were pretty much told that before the season and its pretty much what I have seen. It looks the same, but more aggressive therefore resulting in bigger plays (mostly bad, but some good). Am I wrong to think that?

New_Texans
09-29-2009, 05:45 PM
Im not against getting rid of Kubiak.

Double Barrel
09-29-2009, 06:19 PM
First, let me say that I am not for firing Kubiak in the middle of the season. I do think he is pretty close to earning the "will be fired" title, if he isn't already there.

About the D scheme, I thought it was the same scheme only different playcalling. Seems that we were pretty much told that before the season and its pretty much what I have seen. It looks the same, but more aggressive therefore resulting in bigger plays (mostly bad, but some good). Am I wrong to think that?

I definitely agree with your first statement. If Kubiak wasn't on the "hot seat" prior to this season, I can't believe that he's not on it now.

The defensive scheme seems to be shrouded in mystery, simply because we have little to go on with regards to a Frank Bush resume, and everything else we have is sugar-coated sound bites from the coaching staff. I think it is borderline stupid to take a bad defense from last season and just do the same thing again but simpler. My previous post was giving them more latitude that something had to be different in the scheme, but that is just speculation on my part. Right now, though, it does look like Richard.Smith.v2 + extra suckiness.

bckey
09-29-2009, 11:03 PM
I think this is key. We honestly can't expect a new DC and new scheme to be effective immediately, especially with two big starters out in TC.

Tell that to Rex Ryan.

Grams
09-30-2009, 05:59 AM
These threads are getting old.

All firing any coach mid season is saying is that you have given up on the team for the year. It is not even halfway through the seson yet.

A new coach coming in will change half of the players. (Of course half of the players on defense probably deserve to be changed.) But probably the zone blocking scheme so there goes a bunch of the oline, the one-cut and run RB's as well - which is all of them? The offense will change. So there goes half the fun of watching. Probably a new QB as all these coaches like "their own" QB. Not many coaches are going to get a Flacco or Ryan to play QB. Besides they more or less had decent defenses to start off with. Then back to the wait 3-4 years again. The fire this person or that will start after year 1 again. Or the why did they hire this coach over that coach threads because some of the posters here know so much more that anyone in the NFL.

We are stuck in a time loop - over and over and over again. You don't have to be Harry/Mary Sunshine, but can't we all just lay off the "FIRE" threads till at least halfway through a season?

Lucky
09-30-2009, 06:04 AM
...but can't we all just lay off the "FIRE" threads till at least halfway through a season?
Can't we lay off the "just lay off the _____" posts? Post what you want. If you don't like a thread's content, don't post in it. Or just say why you don't like it and be done with it.

Grams
09-30-2009, 06:07 AM
Well OK the, I will just avoid them all as they are all just about the same here lately.

CoastalTexan
09-30-2009, 07:10 AM
If Kubiak has a losing record through the first 8 games of the season, I think we should can him at the end of the year. My reasoning is that we always seem to play better the last couple games when it's not possible to make the playoffs. I don't know if it's because the other teams are working towards draft picks or are already a lock for the playoffs but it gets us optimistic for next season when all we do is suck again and again.

Double Barrel
09-30-2009, 11:17 AM
Tell that to Rex Ryan.

I did not say that it couldn't happen, I just said that we can't expect it to happen.

Texans Pride
10-11-2009, 05:21 PM
I am in line, and waiting for the pink soap avatar. Please sign me up.

DerekLee1
10-11-2009, 06:27 PM
I call bull****. This team made ALL the right adjustments in the 2nd half, which is what good coaches do. That Arizona offense was completely shut down in the 2nd half. Schaub made one bad decision, and THAT was the difference in this game. And Kubiak reamed him for it. Sorry, this game was NOT on Kubiak. It was on a poor offensive performance in the first half.

Lucky
10-11-2009, 06:37 PM
Sorry, this game was NOT on Kubiak. It was on a poor offensive performance in the first half.
And that's not Coach Teflon's fault. Right?

Carr Bombed
10-11-2009, 06:39 PM
I call bull****. This team made ALL the right adjustments in the 2nd half, which is what good coaches do.

Do you know something else good coaches do?.......Good coaches get their teams ready to play a football game from the opening snap. Good coaches don't get in a 21 point hole that they have to spend the rest of the game trying to battle back from... If our boys were ready to play, we win that game, but once again when expectations are put on them they come out flat.

Good news though.....all expectations are now off of this team so now they can play good football........like they usually do after they dig themselves into a hole that they have to try to climb out of. :rolleyes:

Texans Pride
10-11-2009, 06:39 PM
I call bull****. This team made ALL the right adjustments in the 2nd half, which is what good coaches do. That Arizona offense was completely shut down in the 2nd half. Schaub made one bad decision, and THAT was the difference in this game. And Kubiak reamed him for it. Sorry, this game was NOT on Kubiak. It was on a poor offensive performance in the first half.

No no, this is a 16 game, four quarters each, season. This team doesn't show up for an entire game. They have to be punched in the mouth, have their backs against the wall, or whatever cliche you want to use, before they can wake up. More often times than not, they wake up too late.

The offense didn't show up, the defense didn't show up, and the coaching didn't show up. The one thing about this team that is consistent, is their inability to be consistent.

This start with Kubiak, and using his words, "Just didn't have these guys ready to go, and that's my fault."

awtysst
10-11-2009, 06:42 PM
I call bull****. This team made ALL the right adjustments in the 2nd half, which is what good coaches do. That Arizona offense was completely shut down in the 2nd half. Schaub made one bad decision, and THAT was the difference in this game. And Kubiak reamed him for it. Sorry, this game was NOT on Kubiak. It was on a poor offensive performance in the first half.

Yep we made good adjustments. Yes, good coaches do that. But did you see the way we started the game? Did it look familiar? It should because for just about all the games this season and several games last season, the offense looked flat in the first quarter. Good coaches make adjustments, but they also make sure the team is ready to go from the first play. For whatever reason the team looks lethargic coming out of the gate and needs until the second quarter to wakeup.

Texans Pride
10-11-2009, 06:46 PM
For whatever reason the team looks lethargic coming out of the gate and needs until the second quarter to wakeup.

I think it's all a ploy to make sure they are on NFL Replay each week.

Runner
10-11-2009, 07:16 PM
I think a lot of people need to put their fire Kubiak pistols back in their holsters. There was a long discussion about this in the off season, and many vocal posters, and I believe the majority of the board, were very clear that Kubiak deserved another year, that he was building the Texans "the right way" i.e. slowly, and that those that didn't agree with this were pessimists and worse. Those that liked the way Kubiak did things then should be happy now. Nothing has changed.

As it turns out, this is just the type of performance we pessimists (known to outside observers as "realists") expected. I'm not that disappointed in this season because the team is meeting my expectations.

I'm sure that soon I'll be reading how the next game will prove what the Texans are made of. I think this Cardinals game has already showed us that - again. However, the next game will be a crucial step in the slow building of a better 8-8 team.

LonerATO
10-11-2009, 07:45 PM
Im just worried about who McNair would hire if they fire Kubes and crew. Say that happens then what kind of D would the team run + the new staff has to move away from the ZBS and into something else. Im not saying keep Kubes, Im just worried about how this team will look and play each week.

Thorn
10-11-2009, 07:48 PM
I think if we are 7-9 or better at the end of the season, Kubiac and company have one more year. I was really hoping for the home town boy to take this team to the promised land, but it's not looking good right now.

Second Honeymoon
10-11-2009, 08:09 PM
I think if we are 7-9 or better at the end of the season, Kubiac and company have one more year. I was really hoping for the home town boy to take this team to the promised land, but it's not looking good right now.

I don't give a rat's tail about him being a hometown boy. Does he gets his team prepared to play?

No. Time to move on.

bckey
10-12-2009, 11:48 AM
I think if we are 7-9 or better at the end of the season, Kubiac and company have one more year. I was really hoping for the home town boy to take this team to the promised land, but it's not looking good right now.


I hope you are wrong Thorn because 8-8 is about the best I think Kubiak can do as head coach. I don't want another year of mediocre football. I want a winner on the field. Is that too much to ask for in Houston? I see 5 or 6 wins looking at our remaining schedule. That would put us right in the area where you are saying Kubiak will get another year. Please Texans. Either win more than 8 games or lose enough to see a new coaching staff here. Please don't leave us dog paddling in this cesspool of mediocrity.


Sun. 18 @ Bengals (good team)
Sun. 25 49ERS (will be coming off a bye after a disasterous loss. Singletary will have his team motivated)
Sun. 1 @ Bills (terrible team with a bad qb)
Sun. 8 @ Colts (yikes)
BYE 15
Mon. 23 TITANS (Vince Young returns but we should beat em)
Sun. 29 COLTS (yikes again)
Sun. 6 @ Jaguars (not very good but capable of beating us)
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS (beat the crap out of the Jags)
Sun. 20 @ Rams (bad team)
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins (bad team but dangerous)
Sun. 3 PATRIOTS (it depends on if the Patriots need this game for the playoffs because I'm sure we won't)

Thorn
10-12-2009, 11:55 AM
Don't take my post the wrong way guys. Do I want Kubiak to win and take us to the Super Bowl and we all live happily everyafter with our hometown coach? You bet I do. However, if Kubiak can't win, then he's gotta go, simple as that.

Vinny
10-12-2009, 11:57 AM
I think a lot of people need to put their fire Kubiak pistols back in their holsters. There was a long discussion about this in the off season, and many vocal posters, and I believe the majority of the board, were very clear that Kubiak deserved another year, that he was building the Texans "the right way" i.e. slowly, and that those that didn't agree with this were pessimists and worse. Those that liked the way Kubiak did things then should be happy now. Nothing has changed.

As it turns out, this is just the type of performance we pessimists (known to outside observers as "realists") expected. I'm not that disappointed in this season because the team is meeting my expectations.

I'm sure that soon I'll be reading how the next game will prove what the Texans are made of. I think this Cardinals game has already showed us that - again. However, the next game will be a crucial step in the slow building of a better 8-8 team.I think he did deserve to show he could do it another year, but he has just shown us he can only make the team mediocre in just short of half a decade. McNair re-upped David Carr and extended his contract to ensure the team paid him 60 million dollars when it was pretty obvious he had a dog on his hands.....so I see Kubiak here next season aw-shucking his way to another 8-8 season. At the end of next year Andre Johnson will be in his 9th season and at the end of his career...ready for the next 6 year plan to bring this town a winner. What a waste.

brakos82
10-12-2009, 11:57 AM
Don't take my post the wrong way guys. Do I want Kubiak to win and take us to the Super Bowl and we all live happily everyafter with our hometown coach? You bet I do. However, if Kubiak can't win, then he's gotta go, simple as that.

Why do I always feel the need to rep you? :thinking:

bckey
10-12-2009, 12:07 PM
Don't take my post the wrong way guys. Do I want Kubiak to win and take us to the Super Bowl and we all live happily everyafter with our hometown coach? You bet I do. However, if Kubiak can't win, then he's gotta go, simple as that.

My post wasn't directed at you but at the idea of Kubiak getting another year if he goes at least 7-9. It would be an extremely long offseason, season and then another offseason just to see a coaching change. I asked McClain on his blog if he thought Kubiak would get another year if we 8-8 or less again and he said yes. He thought it would take a disaster like 5-11 or 4-12 to see him runoff.

Vinny
10-12-2009, 12:11 PM
My post wasn't directed at you but at the idea of Kubiak getting another year if he goes at least 7-9. It would be an extremely long offseason, season and then another offseason just to see a coaching change. I asked McClain on his blog if he thought Kubiak would get another year if we 8-8 or less again and he said yes. He thought it would take a disaster like 5-11 or 4-12 to see him runoff.
what the hell is the difference in 5-11 and 7-9? I mean really. Either record is the same net result.

bckey
10-12-2009, 12:14 PM
what the hell is the difference in 5-11 and 7-9? I mean really. Either record is the same net result.

I agree Vinny. I was as stunned at the answer he gave as you. I just hope he is wrong.

Thorn
10-12-2009, 12:15 PM
My post wasn't directed at you but at the idea of Kubiak getting another year if he goes at least 7-9. It would be an extremely long offseason, season and then another offseason just to see a coaching change. I asked McClain on his blog if he thought Kubiak would get another year if we 8-8 or less again and he said yes. He thought it would take a disaster like 5-11 or 4-12 to see him runoff.

I hate to say this (for several reasons), but i agree with McClain.

If we miss the playoffs, and win less than 7 games, I would hope enough is enough and we get another HC. If we have another 8-8 season, and Kubes is still here next year, it'll be his last if we aren't in the playoffs for the 2010 season.

God, I hate saying I agree with McClain.

Vinny
10-12-2009, 12:19 PM
My post wasn't directed at you but at the idea of Kubiak getting another year if he goes at least 7-9. It would be an extremely long offseason, season and then another offseason just to see a coaching change. I asked McClain on his blog if he thought Kubiak would get another year if we 8-8 or less again and he said yes. He thought it would take a disaster like 5-11 or 4-12 to see him runoff.

what the hell is the difference in 5-11 and 7-9? I mean really. Either record is the same net result.

I agree Vinny. I was as stunned at the answer he gave as you. I just hope he is wrong. The Texans are on the NFL feeder road while everyone is in the fast lane trying to pass the slower vehicles. This organization hasn't figured out that the NFL moves faster than a marketing campaign. We'll be consistent and do the same thing we did with David Carr. Unable to figure out what we have, we burn a few years for no good reason.

Kaiser Toro
10-12-2009, 12:31 PM
Either Smith needs to start bringing in men, or Kubiak needs to do a better job of coaching up the kids. The kids just can't get it done in the red zone.

Double Barrel
10-12-2009, 03:10 PM
As long as ReliantWorld can boast of XX consecutive sellouts, the marketing company known as the Houston Texans stays profitable. Winning, of course, would be a bonus (more potential games at ReliantWorld), but, in the end they provide a great gameday experience that is fun for the whole family.

Oh yeah, about that football coach, Mr. McNair thinks he's neat-O, so you can expect another year if the losses don't get too bad and threaten the precious ticket sales. H-town has proven time and time again that we'll support a .500/mediocre product as long as it provides great entertainment value. Aren't our jerseys nice? :gun:

utahmark
10-12-2009, 03:30 PM
That time out with about a min left inside the Arizona 10 was ludacris. We wanted them to have time left if we scored.

Runner
10-12-2009, 03:39 PM
Either Smith needs to start bringing in men, or Kubiak needs to do a better job of coaching up the kids. The kids just can't get it done in the red zone.

I wouldnt hold my breath waiting for the former. I think Smith proved his chops as a great finder of talent when he picked up those two defensive lineman (Maddox and someone?) his first season here. When they helped the D, that gave him an instant reputation as a smart guy who really new what he was doing. I think that rep lingers to this day, even though he's about an average GM. If he's as great and error free as he's made out to be, this team wouldn't still have so many holes.

I guess I won't hold my breath for the latter either. I'm not a daredevil.

ChampionTexan
10-12-2009, 04:23 PM
That time out with about a min left inside the Arizona 10 was ludacris. We wanted them to have time left if we scored.

It was taken after the incomplete pass to Dreesen on 3rd down. The clock wasn't going to start before the next snap anyway. In the end it served no purpose since the strategy session they used the time out to have was obviously a failure, but not taking it wouldn't have used one second more of the clock.

spurstexanstros
10-12-2009, 05:50 PM
I think the Texans played well and the coaching staff did a good job. Bottom line its up to the players to excecute. Did Kubiak throw the GW pick? Did Kubiak fail to get the one yard...did Kubiak Overthrow receiver in endzone..no.

Sure I would have liked to have seen a boot leg or a fake FB hand off and a toss but that didnt happen.

Also dont forget the cards d-line made plays..they arent playing solitaire out there you know.

I am proud of my team...sure they lost but they played well and looked like the better team. fire Kubiak....no.

Cmon calm down....dont get trigger happy with the coaches..what team do you want to look like the Rockettes....how is the multiple coaching changes working out there.

Marcus
11-08-2009, 01:57 PM
Fire away. Just keep it on one thread please.

Ryan
11-08-2009, 02:00 PM
Dude, game's not over.

Dan B.
11-08-2009, 02:03 PM
Dude, game's not over.

I believe Marcus is preemptively warning people who start "Fire Gary" threads that they will be moved here. He is bumping the thread in anticipation of the many posts that are being written as we speak.

Lucky
11-08-2009, 02:04 PM
I believe Marcus is preemptively warning people who start "Fire Gary" threads that they will be moved here.
Mainly, he's just starting crap. SOS.

BSofA04
11-08-2009, 02:06 PM
WTF? It's Kubiak's fault fro the bonehead penalties? Maybe so if this was a common occurrence....but this game is very much an anomaly.

Dan B.
11-08-2009, 02:07 PM
Mainly, he's just starting crap. SOS.

Hey, I could easily be wrong.

Marcus
11-08-2009, 02:12 PM
Mainly, he's just starting crap. SOS.

:rolleyes: Jesus Christ!

:potkettle:

wagonhed
11-23-2009, 11:18 PM
bump, we might need this thread too

wagonhed
11-23-2009, 11:46 PM
seriously.. noone?

GuerillaBlack
11-23-2009, 11:48 PM
Not ready for the fire Kubiak yet. If we end up 8-8 again, then kick his ass out onto Kirby.

Goatcheese
11-23-2009, 11:50 PM
I'm almost certain that wasn't Kubiak out there missing kicks, dropping passes, missing tackles, and getting beat up in the trenches.

I could be wrong.

silvrhand
11-24-2009, 12:15 AM
I'm almost certain that wasn't Kubiak out there missing kicks, dropping passes, missing tackles, and getting beat up in the trenches.

I could be wrong.

- how about starting your 3rd string RB over the other two?
- how about piss poor clock management
- how about piss poor playcalling in the ENTIRE first half.
- how about piss poor defense scheme against a guy that can't throw the ball to beat you.. he RUNS the ball to beat you.. where is our QB spy.. )(@*$)(*@$(@*

New_Texans
11-24-2009, 12:19 AM
- how about starting your 3rd string RB over the other two?
- how about piss poor clock management
- how about piss poor playcalling in the ENTIRE first half.
- how about piss poor defense scheme against a guy that can't throw the ball to beat you.. he RUNS the ball to beat you.. where is our QB spy.. )(@*$)(*@$(@*

QB spy was stopping Chris Johnson from breaking off TD runs...that combination is dangerous however, it wont last because VY is going to end up being constantly injured.

first half play calling was stellar in comparison to the second half (that RB screen play near the GL)

Goatcheese
11-24-2009, 12:34 AM
- how about starting your 3rd string RB over the other two?

He didn't fumble. It doesn't matter if you run up and down the field if you put the rock on the ground.

- how about piss poor clock management

I don't follow. The last drive of the game was as close to perfect as it gets, minus KB missing the kick.

We drove down the field into field goal range, and even had time to center the ball for the easy kick.

What more do you want?

- how about piss poor playcalling in the ENTIRE first half.

You mean when we scored 14 points in the ENTIRE first half?

- how about piss poor defense scheme against a guy that can't throw the ball to beat you.. he RUNS the ball to beat you.. where is our QB spy.. )(@*$)(*@$(@*

Who is the defensive coordinator?

Hint: It's not Kubiak.

silvrhand
11-24-2009, 09:00 AM
QB spy was stopping Chris Johnson from breaking off TD runs...that combination is dangerous however, it wont last because VY is going to end up being constantly injured.

first half play calling was stellar in comparison to the second half (that RB screen play near the GL)

Here's a clue, when it's 3rd and > 5 yards and they spread the field.. PUT SOMEONE ON VINCE... Rushing 4 and going man under he's going to run the ball, he's not going to throw, he threw for 100 yards, who cares about that.. Stop him on 3rd > 5 for the 3-4 times he ran for the first downs and you WIN the game.

Mr. White
11-24-2009, 09:16 AM
bump, we might need this thread too

I'll post here again when we're mathematically eliminated from the playoffs.

Should be pretty soon.

Imatexanfan
11-24-2009, 09:28 AM
He should have taken a shot down field at the end of the game and still would've had time to kick a FG if not...nevermind about the FG part

IlliniJen
11-24-2009, 09:42 AM
Another year, same ol' Gary "It's on me guys" Kubiak.

I'm getting my "fire Kubiak" bandwagon gassed up. I drove it around after last season, but put it in the garage to give him one more chance at the beginning of this season. The same issues I had with him last year still exist. We need a change. We need a winning attitude, and that's not going to come from Kubiak.

silvrhand
11-24-2009, 10:14 AM
Another year, same ol' Gary "It's on me guys" Kubiak.

I'm getting my "fire Kubiak" bandwagon gassed up. I drove it around after last season, but put it in the garage to give him one more chance at the beginning of this season. The same issues I had with him last year still exist. We need a change. We need a winning attitude, and that's not going to come from Kubiak.

Let me know when you gas it up, I'll chip in..

Kaiser Toro
11-24-2009, 10:22 AM
FWIW, John Clayton was discussing Shanahan this morning, and stated that Shanahan might wait for the end of year to make a decision as better jobs open up like Dallas and Houston.

Nothing earth shattering on Shanahan, but was interested how Houston came into his thought process. Perhaps, back room talk is starting to come to the fore front.

wagonhed
11-29-2009, 02:51 PM
timely bump

Goatcheese
11-29-2009, 02:53 PM
I'm starting to edge that way again.

Every time we get a decent lead Kubes reigns in the offense. He just doesn't have a killer instinct. Everything else is there.

Porky
11-29-2009, 02:58 PM
Stick a fork in Kubes. He's done.

And if I am Mcnair, I'm already dialing CBS and asking to speak to Cowher.

TexansSeminole
11-29-2009, 02:59 PM
We finally get the running game going and we decide to just quit running in the 4th quarter. This happens far too often. I'm sure tomorrow Kubiak will say that they "got away from it a little bit".

Same **** every year.

STEEL BLUE TEXANS
11-29-2009, 03:00 PM
Can we please get a coach that will get this team to play 2 halves of football?

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 03:02 PM
Can I get a what what?

TexansSeminole
11-29-2009, 03:02 PM
You can't throw the ball on every down late in games and expect to not turn the ball over.

Dread-Head
11-29-2009, 03:02 PM
Stick a fork in Kubes. He's done.

And if I am Mcnair, I'm already dialing CBS and asking to speak to Cowher.


Coming soon Sundays to Reliant Stadium. The Bill Cowher Power Hour!

Let Kubiack Stay and serve as CO-offensive Co-ordiator. He's done.

FirstTexansFan
11-29-2009, 03:03 PM
Coming soon Sundays to Reliant Stadium. The Bill Cowher Power Hour!

Hope you're correct on this. It's time, someone make some Pink Soap please, I'm ready to wear it.

checo446
11-29-2009, 03:05 PM
I'm starting to edge that way again.

Every time we get a decent lead Kubes reigns in the offense. He just doesn't have a killer instinct. Everything else is there.

Pretty much. Team plays an awful first half of football. Followed by flatness by the entire team. It is pathetic how flat we came out in the 2nd half.

On another note, does anyone else notice how pathetically bad Dunta Robinson was/is game after game? they could definitely make a highlight reel for opposing WRs making plays against him this year...

TexCanada
11-29-2009, 03:05 PM
I have always backed Kubiak...until now. This is too much to take week in and week out.

valleytexfan
11-29-2009, 03:06 PM
Sign me up. This has happened to many fu$%@# times...

TheIronDuke
11-29-2009, 03:07 PM
I'm in now. Kubes took us from a bad team to a consistently mediocre team and will not take us over the hump.

Esoom
11-29-2009, 03:08 PM
I have always backed Kubiak...until now. This is too much to take week in and week out.

I agree. As a former Kubiak defender, I am hereby converting. I can't take these kind of games anymore.

Wolf
11-29-2009, 03:09 PM
I like Kubiak but... the team needs some established blood in the coaching ranks, someone that knows how to get this team to believe in themselves. close out games get a killer instinct

Mr. White
11-29-2009, 03:15 PM
It's not his fault.

The refs don't want us to win.

:sarcasm:

Wolf
11-29-2009, 03:16 PM
sad part is that I have been trained by this team to expect the worst, I expect stupid crap like today and makes it hard for me to get happy until the game is over

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 03:17 PM
Somebody with paint shop skills.......

BREAK OUT THE PINK SOAP!


Seriously...do it, it's time.

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 03:18 PM
sad part is that I have been trained by this team to expect the worst, I expect stupid crap like today and makes it hard for me to get happy until the game is over

And if we're feeling like that you can bet the team is also....we need somebody who can lead from the HC spot and instill confidence throughout the team. We need a coach who's been and won in these late season battles before.

Bring in the chin.

Pantherstang84
11-29-2009, 03:20 PM
I think Kubiak has lost the locker room. It's time.

Spled
11-29-2009, 03:38 PM
How about Leslie Frazier?

TexCanada
11-29-2009, 03:42 PM
I really don't want to see a revolving door at the HC position. I would love to see Cowher on the Texans sidelines, but only if he is actually committed to this franchise. The last thing we need is a new HC every year or two.

JDizzle
11-29-2009, 03:45 PM
I don't see how anyone can defend his ineptitude at this point.

Wolf
11-29-2009, 08:25 PM
Kubiak takes blame: Aside from the Week 6 victory at Cincinnati, the Texans have struggled to put together a consistent 60 minutes of football this season. That was true again on Sunday, when they gained 242 yards in the first half. They had 154 yards in the second half, but they picked up only three first downs and 52 yards before the Colts rallied to take a 21-20 lead midway through the fourth quarter.

The Texans also turned the ball over three times in the second half, resulting in 14 points for the Colts.

After the game, Kubiak took the blame for the Texans' inconsistency. Quarterback Matt Schaub chalked those words up to a coach trying to protect his players.

"That's just the type of coach he is, and he takes a lot of heat when he shouldn't," Schaub said. "That's on us as players. That game out there, we were set up to win that game and play well and we just didn't do it. We hurt ourselves all day, especially in the second half."



http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5863

as I said earlier, I liked early on that Kubiak took responsibility for issues, but this is year 4 with his own players and his own system.. that time is over. just makes me wonder how the players feel when during the game, when an important call from the sidelines come in.. I just feel that they don't trust the calls at times
and hence they play timid like the coach

Vinny
11-29-2009, 08:31 PM
Did you guys catch Manning in the presser saying that they got in that long pass to Austin Collie because the Texans were all celebrating the big hit on the play before?

MannyFresh
11-29-2009, 08:34 PM
Did you guys catch Manning in the presser saying that they got in that long pass to Austin Collie because the Texans were all celebrating the big hit on the play before?

That's because even down 17 Manning was a professional and didn't high five and hoop and hollar... that hurry up offense again bit our guys...

Imatexanfan
11-29-2009, 08:35 PM
Did you guys catch Manning in the presser saying that they got in that long pass to Austin Collie because the Texans were all celebrating the big hit on the play before?

Nah but I believe it just because the fact he said that he "spotted" us points in the first half...class act I'd say the samething though.
:polevault:

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 08:35 PM
Did you guys catch Manning in the presser saying that they got in that long pass to Austin Collie because the Texans were all celebrating the big hit on the play before?

The second that play was made I turned to my friend and said it was likely because we were all celebrating after that hit. Pathetic, they should all be fined for that crap.

False Start
11-29-2009, 08:40 PM
Did you guys catch Manning in the presser saying that they got in that long pass to Austin Collie because the Texans were all celebrating the big hit on the play before?

Yeah, I had a feeling something was going to happen, when they realized what was going on they went to the WTF defense, and just stood there looking.

dtran04
11-29-2009, 08:48 PM
Blame it on Dunta running around in the Colts backfield.

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 08:51 PM
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5863

as I said earlier, I liked early on that Kubiak took responsibility for issues, but this is year 4 with his own players and his own system.. that time is over. just makes me wonder how the players feel when during the game, when an important call from the sidelines come in.. I just feel that they don't trust the calls at times
and hence they play timid like the coach

When you constantly say it's "your fault" people will start to believing it's "your fault". Kubiak isn't doing himself any favors with that old tiresome act.

TexansFanatic
11-29-2009, 08:53 PM
I'm in.

It's been almost four years and we're no better off now than we were in year one.

In today's NFL, a coach can take a team to the playoffs the year after finishing last.

Kubiak has had more than enough time.

He's got to go.

Sorry, Gary. I really wanted it to work out for you.

gwallaia
11-29-2009, 08:53 PM
Did you guys catch Manning in the presser saying that they got in that long pass to Austin Collie because the Texans were all celebrating the big hit on the play before?

The replay was still being shown on the big screen when the Colts snapped the ball.

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 08:56 PM
How about our last offensive play of the half? We are inside the red zone with 3rd and 1, about a minute left, Colts still have a couple of TOs left and we have been running it down their throats but we decide to pass. Not only do we pass but instead of trying some high percentage short pass we go for the gold on a fade to Andre only Andre didn't get that memo and ran a different route. Even if Dre runs the right route that has got to be one of the lowest percentage plays we could have possibly drawn up in that situation, I was livid with that call. I think we were very fortunate that Manning didn't lead the Colts to a FG or worse following that.

Blake
11-29-2009, 08:59 PM
I'm in. We need an upgrade at head coach. Kubiak can stay as OC, which he wont.

Runner
11-29-2009, 09:01 PM
With each loss I'm more firmly convinced that Kubiak is the next Belichick/Cowher/Fisher. They had losses too as beginning head coaches. This is fantastic!

:rolleyes:

hookinreds
11-29-2009, 09:06 PM
The replay was still being shown on the big screen when the Colts snapped the ball.

I was looking over and talking to my son about the hit and looked back and they were running the ball out at midfield before I figured out they had already run another play.

Jackie Chiles
11-29-2009, 09:15 PM
Did you guys catch Manning in the presser saying that they got in that long pass to Austin Collie because the Texans were all celebrating the big hit on the play before?

http://blogs.chron.com/fantasyfootball/2009/11/this_will_probably_be_the_game.html

I look forward to hearing some explanation of this during the Monday presser. For crying out loud, he didn't even drop the ball, it was a solid 5 yard gain.

Carr Bombed
11-29-2009, 09:15 PM
With each loss I'm more firmly convinced that Kubiak is the next Belichick/Cowher/Fisher. They had losses too as beginning head coaches. This is fantastic!

:rolleyes:

I think Kubiak is MUCH closer to being the next Norv Turner than any of those high caliber coaches. Those guys coach smash mouth football, Kubiak's whole philosophy is soft as hell.

Dwade
10-10-2010, 03:14 PM
I think it's time for this thread...any objections? :thinking:

OzzO
10-10-2010, 03:15 PM
Meh - you coulda bumped an old one from last year and save all the re-typing.

FirstTexansFan
10-10-2010, 03:16 PM
Neg rep for not using the existing one :)

JamesBill
10-10-2010, 03:16 PM
the offense will rebound, we need to shave the (F.) Bush.

Big Lou
10-10-2010, 03:16 PM
Lets start with Frank "I can't find my ass" Bush...........

Then we can work our way up from there.

Bearkat Texan
10-10-2010, 03:17 PM
i'd start with bush and then go from there...

Dwade
10-10-2010, 03:17 PM
Meh - you coulda bumped an old one from last year and save all the re-typing.

Yeah...this team doesn't really deserve the extra typing after taking a dump all over Reliant.

TexCanada
10-10-2010, 03:18 PM
Yeah...this team doesn't really deserve the extra typing after taking a dump all over Reliant.

Taking a second dump, actually.

Mr. White
10-10-2010, 03:21 PM
I kept my mouth shut the whole offseason and decided to give the guy a chance again. Even after the Cowboys debacle.

Now I'm back on the bandwagon.

Porky
10-10-2010, 03:27 PM
I think George Bush might be the better Bush for the job. Hell, I'll take Barbara Bush, or the burning bush. Just give me any Bush that can draw up a game plan that accentuates the effect of the good talent, and limits the effect of the bad/young talent. Right now, he gets a big Giant F on both counts.

That's two Giant (puns intended) eggs laid at home out of 3 played. Great teams never lay an egg at home, good teams lay one or two MAX. Great teams go undefeated at home. Good teams win 6-7. They basically cannot lose again at home if they expect to be that good team we all thought they were.

Mr. White
10-10-2010, 03:28 PM
Here's (http://www.facebook.com/search/?init=quick&q=fire%20gary%20kubiak&tas=0.6815635018118356#!/group.php?gid=212173251647&v=info) the Facebook group. I'm in.

TexCanada
10-10-2010, 03:28 PM
I think George Bush might be the better Bush for the job. Hell, I'll take Barbara Bush, or the burning bush. Just give me any Bush that can draw up a game plan that accentuates the effect of the good talent, and limits the effect of the bad/young talent. Right now, he gets a big Giant F on both counts.

That's two Giant (puns intended) eggs laid at home out of 3 played. Great teams never lay an egg at home, good teams lay one or two MAX. Great teams go undefeated at home. Good teams win 6-7. They basically cannot lose again at home if they expect to be that good team we all thought they were.

And we know Bush would invest heavily into the defense!

TheCD
10-10-2010, 03:30 PM
Yes, this is a thread in favor of dumping Kubiak. No, I don't have nor want any pink soap. This is not a reactionary thread to today's loss but a cumulative evaluation due to his time here. I have been a proponent of Kubiak's for a long time now. I felt he was the right man for the job. It looks like I was wrong.

Frankly, most of you are going to roast me on this, but I think that outside of perhaps 12 players, our roster is void of real talent, and that they are merely overachieving within the scheme. Today was a great case in point. Yes, we were definitely outmanned, but the Giants today showed us that if you obliterate that scheme, Matt can't throw worth crap, our line can't block worth a darn, and our receivers' route running abilities are negated.

Our defense has always tried to be a scheme that doesn't work. With the exception of much better coaching than the last regime (which isn't saying much), I feel like we are still in the same position we have always been...we need a DT, FS, CB, and coverage LB. On offense we need a QB who doesn't throw funky balls for the whole first quarter and can make tough throws in good coverage without the receiver having to make an amazing play. I'm not saying Matt can't be that guy, but I hate that I have no faith in him winning us hames on his own like the elite QBs in the NFL can. It drives me nuts that he constantly underthrows receivers on passes that would be easy TDs all the time.

I know I'm going to get flack for this, but I really feel its time for a change. We have a horrid defense that can barely hold on to blowouts against bad teams, and a flashy offense that can only put up points when there is no expectations on them. The truly elite offenses don't get stonewalled as often as we do. And unless we have a defense that can score points and win games for us when they don't show up, we are still looking from the outside of the playoff race.

I love watching defense...the Texans constantly make me sick and livid with their play. I think it's time for a defensive guru.

burro
10-10-2010, 03:33 PM
Kubiak isn't the problem any more than Capers was. This is a defensive/QB issue...as its always been with this team. We should definitely give Frank Bush a week or twelve off.

Brandon420tx
10-10-2010, 03:35 PM
I certainly do feel we took the first step towards the division cellar today. Colts won, Jags won, and *gag* the Titans got an early lead against the Cowboys

Porky
10-10-2010, 03:44 PM
If I am Bob Mcnair, I'm checking the long distance rates to North Carolina about right now.

awtysst
10-10-2010, 04:00 PM
Here is the problem. You cannot fire coaches in the middle of the season. There is simply nobody better out there who can come in and do anything. Who could come in right now and do better?

Cowher? Nah. He likes a 3-4 D and a smash mouth power offense. We have neither. How would Cowher do any better running something he is unfamiliar?

Jon Gruden? Nah. He made his name off a studly Defense and one good year powered by a studly Oakland D. He is overated,

Jim Fassell: Pass.

Simply put there are no options for Head Coach right now. If you want to fire Kubiak after the season then wait to make this thread until after they have lost more games than they have won.

TexansBlood
10-10-2010, 04:01 PM
Im so thinking about the pink soap!

Pondering.....


Nobody showed up today....


:kitten:

Brisco_County
10-10-2010, 04:07 PM
This was an offensive coordinator and DB coaching problem.

I think the phrase "Fire Kubiak" should be synonymous with "I can't put things in perspective so I'm going to assert an uninformed opinion."

Marcus
10-10-2010, 04:12 PM
Why do you guys always blame the coaches when they lose?

Or is this just a way to "vent"?

Thorn
10-10-2010, 04:13 PM
Why do you guys always blame the coaches when they lose?

Or is this just a way to "vent"?

If the whole team plays poorly, then blame the coachs. If it's one or two players, then blame those few players. That's how I see it at least.

Dwade
10-10-2010, 04:18 PM
If the whole team plays poorly, then blame the coachs. If it's one or two players, then blame those few players. That's how I see it at least.

I agree. The whole team looks like crap the last 2 weeks.

Either it's a coaching problem, or Schaub is actually that bad. :rake:

And don't get me started on the defense.

GNTLEWOLF
10-10-2010, 05:03 PM
Why do you guys always blame the coaches when they lose?

Or is this just a way to "vent"?

If the players suck, the coaches had a hand in choosing the players and preparing them for the game.
If the game planning sucks, ....well that is entirely on the coaches.
having said that, I'm not quite ready ,yet, to become a pink soaper

eriadoc
10-10-2010, 05:06 PM
It's the players. There is only one player in our secondary who ought to be starting for another team ,and he's a one-dimensional player that fits a certain style of defense. Our CBs do not win their individual matchups, and our safeties do not provide adequate help. That's not scheme, that's ability (or lack thereof).

Our LBs are good, but they do nothing to stop the underneath routes or stop the TEs. This team has been routinely tortured by TEs, except for when the other team is too busy throwing for even longer gains to their WRs.

We have two DEs, but no DTs. We have no one at DT worth starting on very many football teams. We're only two-deep at DE, now that Barwin is out. Our DTs just flat out do not win their individual battles. You can't pin that on coaching scheme.

However, every one of these players except AJ has been selected by Kubiak. Where you can further look at coaching is the fact that our corners almost never look back for the ball.

DerekLee1
10-10-2010, 05:11 PM
I feel bad for Kubes. He's a really good coach and his players love playing for him. The lack of talent in the secondary is not his fault, and he's only able to play the cards he's dealt. He gets his team to 3-1, is unbeaten in the AFC, still on top of the division, and has you armchair journalists whining about firing him.

He's a good coach. Just be patient.

eriadoc
10-10-2010, 05:18 PM
I feel bad for Kubes. He's a really good coach and his players love playing for him. The lack of talent in the secondary is not his fault, and he's only able to play the cards he's dealt. He gets his team to 3-1, is unbeaten in the AFC, still on top of the division, and has you armchair journalists whining about firing him.

He's a good coach. Just be patient.

He gets to play the cards he's chosen. Every player on this team except AJ is hand picked by Kubiak. When people have widely felt that the Texans needed more help in the secondary, he's drafted differently. Kubiak has drafted three DBs in the first three rounds in the time he's been here: Bennett (bust), Molden (bust), and Kareem Jackson (more NFL ready than other DBs available, right?). He's hand-picked the cards he's playing.

People felt that the team needed a safety, and he picked other positions. People felt that they needed a space eating DT, and he picked other positions. So I recognize that the players are not getting the job done - but these players are not inherited guys. They're his guys.

DerekLee1
10-10-2010, 05:41 PM
He gets to play the cards he's chosen. Every player on this team except AJ is hand picked by Kubiak. When people have widely felt that the Texans needed more help in the secondary, he's drafted differently. Kubiak has drafted three DBs in the first three rounds in the time he's been here: Bennett (bust), Molden (bust), and Kareem Jackson (more NFL ready than other DBs available, right?). He's hand-picked the cards he's playing.

People felt that the team needed a safety, and he picked other positions. People felt that they needed a space eating DT, and he picked other positions. So I recognize that the players are not getting the job done - but these players are not inherited guys. They're his guys.

HE doesn't pick them; Rick Smith does, although ALL the coaches weigh in on their recommendations. They don't get to pick first-round talent every round. This team has had so many holes to fill, they take what they can. You telling me you'd take a safety over every other 1st and 2nd round pick we've had in Kubiak's years here? Give back Mario, Cushing, Ryans, D-Brown, Ben Tate, Kareem Jackson? Be realistic. If we had 5 first round picks every year, we'd have the best damn team in NFL history now, wouldn't we?

DexmanC
10-10-2010, 05:46 PM
HE doesn't pick them; Rick Smith does, although ALL the coaches weigh in on their recommendations. They don't get to pick first-round talent every round. This team has had so many holes to fill, they take what they can. You telling me you'd take a safety over every other 1st and 2nd round pick we've had in Kubiak's years here? Give back Mario, Cushing, Ryans, D-Brown, Ben Tate, Kareem Jackson? Be realistic. If we had 5 first round picks every year, we'd have the best damn team in NFL history now, wouldn't we?

That's not entirely true. The Texans are on record as emulating organizations
such as the Steelers and Patriots. However, the Texans are not as good
at talent evaluation as either of those other two teams. The Texans make
picks as a committee, not as one guy screaming at the other. Demeco
Ryans was a Johnny Holland pick. Cushing was a Frank Bush pick, Trindon
Holliday was a Marciano pick, etc.

By the way... After the Patriots made the Randy Moss trade, they ended
up with 2 picks per the first FOUR rounds of the 2011 draft. THAT is a
smart organization. They can build up to championship contender, and
rebuild while winning division championships. I like Kubiak, but it's just
about time to admit he ain't cuttin' the mustard.

Ryan
10-10-2010, 05:50 PM
The problem with this team is part Kubiak, and the other part is that there are too many Amobi Okoye's and not enough Cushing's.

Mr. White
10-10-2010, 05:50 PM
I don't even care what the excuse is

...the players
....the assistants
....the GM

I've heard it all the past 3 years and it sounds like a broken record. The excuses don't wash anymore.

gwallaia
10-10-2010, 05:51 PM
If the Texans do not make the playoffs this season. Kubiak and the entire coaching staff will simply have to go.

Wolf
10-10-2010, 05:54 PM
I like Kubiak but this is his group, his players and HIS COACHES he picked. I am not calling for his head right now, but I have never seen a team take so long to build.


Rate they are going ,by the time the defense gets in line, AJ will be nearing retirement.


very frustrating seeing the steelers,Patriots,Titans, etc etc.. plug and play players and coaches and they seem to not miss too much of a beat and here we sit 8 years later and we are still trying to get it going on both sides of the ball

My love for the Texans is like an abusive relationship. I try to love unconditionally but keep getting abused.

Wolf
10-10-2010, 05:56 PM
If the Texans do not make the playoffs this season. Kubiak and the entire coaching staff will simply have to go.

I agree and if they are gone, Bob needs to pony up some cash and go try and get a big name coach in here..

PockyAF
10-10-2010, 05:59 PM
I posted this in a thread in the NFL section. I think it's better suited in a thread on the main section. Since the 'Cowher the current flavor' thread is close, this thread will have to do.

-----------------------------------------------------
Latest update on Cowher returning to coaching:

Cowher inches closer to returning to coaching

Posted by Mike Florio on September 26, 2010 8:18 AM ET

It's his fourth year out of coaching. And it could be his last year out of coaching.

Former Steelers coach Bill Cowher, who led the team to two Super Bowls and one championship in 15 seasons, recently spoke about his future at the campus of Penn State-Behrend.

"With every year, there becomes a little bit more of a void because you do miss it," Cowher said, per Jerry DiPaola of the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review.

"I had a chance these last few years to spend some very special time with the women in my life," Cowher added. "For that, I have absolutely no regrets whatsoever for walking away."

His wife, Kaye, passed away in July. Her battle with skin cancer was not publicly known, and Bill Cowher has not spoken (to our knowledge) regarding the duration of her illness. [R.I.P Kaye Cowher]

"I am not going to go back into coaching, just to go back into coaching," Cowher said. "It has to be the right situation. And I don't know what the right situation consists of."

Here's a possibility. Giants coach Tom Coughlin landed at No. 3 in the first installment of our video hot seat feature, and Mike Lupica of the New York Daily News has now broached the subject of Coughlin being in danger of termination if the Giants fail to qualify for the playoffs.

Cowher, who draws interest every year, has insisted on being respectful to the men who currently are employed, and he refuses to talk to teams who have head coaches in place. With a daughter now living in New York City and with the Giants becoming the ultimate meat-and-potato foil to the Hard Knocks Jets, Cowher surely could deem the Giants to be the "right situation" for him.

If Cowher ever ends up coaching the Giants, no one will have to worry about the team becoming the Hard Knocks Giants.

"I couldn't say no fast enough," Cowher said.

And that attitude will make him only more attractive to the Giants.


We all know Cowher is a closet Texans homer, evidently shown on NFL Today each week. Why wouldn't he want to come down here and coach his #1 rated NFL player, a very good RB, a franchise QB, and a potentially amazing front 7 D?

We have talents in every skill position, minus the CBs as of now, and are primed to breakout and become an elite team in the NFL. We have a set up of good D just need a coach that can set them right and bring out the beast in them. Cowher can do that. His staff that he would bring in can do that.

We're already good at offense, probably need to upgrade our O-Line a bit. I think Cowher prefers big guys up front, so we would have fix that if he comes on board. Not gonna lie, I won't shed any tears getting rid of these finesse linemen and getting some real maulers.


There, of course, has been rumors last season of him having strong interest in us. Now all we need is McNair to reciprocate those feelings. I don't care about the showing respect to the current HC crap. Send the guy an email/voice message, w/e and let him know that if Kubiak can't do it this year than we want him to come in and take over next season.

I know I was singing Kubiak's praise after the first two games. I was backing him every seasons, even in the dimmest of days, specifically after the Cowboys game, but enough is enough. Getting blown the **** out back-to-back home games is ridiculous, embarrassing, and unacceptable. He put himself in this situation by going with two young, and for the most part, inexperienced starters.

I have a feeling he's going to stick with them the rest of the season. That's fine though, if he wants to sink with his ship, like he did last season with the Brown's sisters, than so be it. Hopefully McNair has the nuts to pull the trigger this year if it bust in Kubiak's face again.

I feel for him though. I still remember him saying in his first ever press conference as our HC, emotional and choked up, that he 'wanted to bring a championship home to Houston'.

I wanted him to be the guy to do it. I wanted him to have a coaching tenure like Cowher did with the Steelers. But it just seems like this guy is in over head as a HC.

DerekLee1
10-10-2010, 06:20 PM
I agree and if they are gone, Bob needs to pony up some cash and go try and get a big name coach in here..

"Big name" coaches rarely work out. See: Jon Gruden in Tampa, Bill Parcells in Dallas, George Seifert in Carolina, Herm Edwards in Kansas City. I think paying Bill Cowher an absurd amount of money would likely be a mistake. Look at the coaches of your last few Super Bowl teams, and there are no "big names" except for Belichick. The only guy I'd rather have here than Kubiak right now is Tony Dungy, and I don't think he'll ever return to football.

Mr. White
10-10-2010, 06:25 PM
"Big name" coaches rarely work out. See: Jon Gruden in Tampa, Bill Parcells in Dallas, George Seifert in Carolina, Herm Edwards in Kansas City. I think paying Bill Cowher an absurd amount of money would likely be a mistake. Look at the coaches of your last few Super Bowl teams, and there are no "big names" except for Belichick. The only guy I'd rather have here than Kubiak right now is Tony Dungy, and I don't think he'll ever return to football.

Gruden only won a Super Bowl in Tampa.

Bill Parcells didn't work in Dallas? Did you see what he started with?

They're still living off of what he built there.

Brisco_County
10-10-2010, 06:38 PM
I'm just starting to believe that the Denver offense of "smaller and faster" O-linemen is no longer an every-situation solution, i.e. large, fast NFC East linemen. It works beautifully against most teams, but it's completely flattened against some elite teams. That's why it hasn't won a Superbowl since John Elway, and why Denver finally fired Shanahan after so many years.

BullNation4Life
10-10-2010, 06:43 PM
I'm just starting to believe that the Denver offense of "smaller and faster" O-linemen is no longer an every-situation solution, i.e. large, fast NFC East linemen. It works beautifully against most teams, but it's completely flattened against some elite teams. That's why it hasn't won a Superbowl since John Elway, and why Denver finally fired Shanahan after so many years.

I think that offense is more played out than the "WildCat"...

Lucky
10-10-2010, 07:13 PM
The Texans are 3-2 and tied for the lead in the AFC South. Kubiak is not getting fired anytime soon.

Having said that, I'm still bothered by Kubiak's gameday coaching approach. He is constantly standing alone, 40 to 50 yards from the LOS, and only speaking to whoever is on the other end of the headset. He never comes over to talk to the players when they come off the field. He never coaches or motivates the players during dead times, like TV timeouts. I find myself just watching Kubiak on the sideline, rather than the game. He seems dispassionate and removed during the game.

I just can't fathom how a coach can lead his team, when he is standing 50 yards away at all times. My bottom line is wins. 3-2 is better than 1-4 or 2-3. The Texans are still on course for reaching their goals. But in my heart, I just don't believe in Kubiak's coaching style. A head coach should lead on the field. And the Texans don't get that from Kubiak.

Hervoyel
10-10-2010, 07:15 PM
I'm absolutely terrified that we might have seen the very best we're going to get from this incarnation of the team. That's the elephant in the room as far as I'm concerned. Seeing this team just flop out of their locker room and then roll over to get their tummy scratched by the Giants, after previously seeing that very same act out of them against the Cowboys really calls into question the idea that we're on the right track. That's what causes all the fan infighting we have and all the "You're not a REAL fan" bull****. Nobody wants to believe that we are on the wrong road, doing the wrong things, or signing the wrong players but this core is in its 5th year and saying that it feels like we may have hit a plateau doesn't sound unreasonable.

That's what I'm most concerned about. The idea of starting another rebuilding cycle fills me with despair at this point. I need Kubiak to be the right guy and I haven't seen a lot on the field the past three weeks to make me believe he is. I want to believe this group of players and coaches has what it takes.

Texan_Bill
10-10-2010, 07:18 PM
http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthi********again.jpg


******** people!!!

Texan4Ever
10-10-2010, 07:18 PM
I would be suprised if we brought Cowher in as HC. Would he overhaul our defense in favor of a 3-4 or will he keep our current 2-3-1 alignment (we have no DBs and DTs to speak of with the exception of Pollard)?

As long as we make it to the playoffs, we're going to keep Kubiak. If not, well Shanny got the axe after an 8-8 season so I have no doubt Kubiak might be on the way out.

If we DO look for a HC and Cowher is not one of em', how about bringing in Jon gruden so he can yell at our guys and light the fire we need or Marty Schotenhemier and play some MARTY BALL!

DexmanC
10-10-2010, 07:20 PM
The Texans are 3-2 and tied for the lead in the AFC South.

Eventually, Kubiak supporters are gonna have to come off that line, and
address the truth. Clinging on to that for dear life isn't correct, especially
when the league now has three solid weeks worth of film on Texans'
weaknesses on both sides of the ball. The Giants perfectly schemed
the Texans out of Zone Blocking. I couldn't believe my eyes. They
took the hammer the Texans had been beating teams with, and schemed
them out of using it.

The one-trick of the Texans offense was completely taken away by the
Giants. On defense, they simply abused the corners in the same manner
the Cowboys did. The Texans had to respect the Giants' run game, and
when he LB's had to help out against Bradshaw and Jacobs, those
corners got WORKED.

The test for the Texans now, is finding a way to be effective, now that
the good coaching staffs now have good tape on how to take your best
weapon out of your hands.

eriadoc
10-10-2010, 07:20 PM
Fact: Kubiak and Co. have had FIVE drafts.

Fact: Every player on this team has been chosen by Kubiak and Co.

How many NFL coaches out there have had five drafts with their current team without making the playoffs? What's the average duration of an NFL career?

Texan_Bill
10-10-2010, 07:24 PM
Just as I suspected!! Retarded ass, know it alls!!! I only wish y'all were as brilliant as you think y'all are.....

Lucky
10-10-2010, 07:26 PM
http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthi********again.jpg


******** people!!!
http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthi********again.jpg


Fact: Every player on this team has been chosen by Kubiak and Co.

Other than the best player, Andre Johnson.

houstonspartan
10-10-2010, 07:27 PM
"Big name" coaches rarely work out. See: Jon Gruden in Tampa, Bill Parcells in Dallas, George Seifert in Carolina, Herm Edwards in Kansas City. I think paying Bill Cowher an absurd amount of money would likely be a mistake. Look at the coaches of your last few Super Bowl teams, and there are no "big names" except for Belichick. The only guy I'd rather have here than Kubiak right now is Tony Dungy, and I don't think he'll ever return to football.

Dude, re-read your own post. Using your logic, we should give Kubiak a 100-year contract, correct?

Give me a ****ing break.

Norg
10-10-2010, 07:34 PM
O snap this thread is back again

Guyz kubes aint getting fired anytime soon me thinks

eriadoc
10-10-2010, 07:37 PM
O snap this thread is back again

Guyz kubes aint getting fired anytime soon me thinks

Definitely not during the season. I want him to stick around for a long while, but as I pointed out above, this is his team. He's had five drafts, and there are precious few coaches in today's NFL that get that long to make the playoffs.

This is his team. If he can't make the playoffs with them this year, then he needs to go.

Norg
10-10-2010, 07:43 PM
i agree if he losses bad this season he should go

i dont think if we dont make the PS then he should go i think its how we lose and win and what not

awtysst
10-10-2010, 07:43 PM
Just as I suspected!! Retarded ass, know it alls!!! I only wish y'all were as brilliant as you think y'all are.....

I hate to break it to you, but I am EVEN MORE brilliant than I think I am!!!

That, and I am also MUCH more humble than I think i am!!!

PockyAF
10-10-2010, 07:46 PM
i agree if he losses bad this season he should go

i dont think if we dont make the PS then he should go i think its how we lose and win and what not

Does getting our ass stomped at home and scaring away the fans with their
horrid pass defense, and non-existent offense not do it for you?

thunderkyss
10-10-2010, 07:47 PM
The Texans are 3-2 and tied for the lead in the AFC South. Kubiak is not getting fired anytime soon.

Having said that, I'm still bothered by Kubiak's gameday coaching approach. He is constantly standing alone, 40 to 50 yards from the LOS, and only speaking to whoever is on the other end of the headset. He never comes over to talk to the players when they come off the field. He never coaches or motivates the players during dead times, like TV timeouts. I find myself just watching Kubiak on the sideline, rather than the game. He seems dispassionate and removed during the game.

I just can't fathom how a coach can lead his team, when he is standing 50 yards away at all times. My bottom line is wins. 3-2 is better than 1-4 or 2-3. The Texans are still on course for reaching their goals. But in my heart, I just don't believe in Kubiak's coaching style. A head coach should lead on the field. And the Texans don't get that from Kubiak.

Kubiak spoke to several players today. I know it's out of the norm, but I saw him speak to Kareem, Bernard, Schaub & AJ... some of them more than once.

Mr. White
10-10-2010, 07:51 PM
This thread sure brings back memories from when it first got posted last year.

Man, I was so worked up that I didn't even sleep that night. It's not looking good for tonight either.

Ckw
10-10-2010, 07:58 PM
http://jasonjeffrey.files.wordpress.com/2009/05/awjeeznotthi********again.jpg


******** people!!!

Bill, come on man. You're awesome dude and one of my favorite posters, but when is enough enough for you? I mean the way this team week in and week out can only perform well enough to get the job done when their backs are against the wall points to one thing: poor coaching and poor game planning.

Every year it is the same thing and I feel like I am freaking bipolar with this team. Every year I start out believing Kubiak is the man for the job and he will be the guy to get us to the promised land. Actually, what else am I supposed to think? If I just think we are going to suck and the coach is a failure, why go through the pain, misery, and depression I feel on days like this?!?

But the man continues to do the same things and this organization continues to do the same damn things. We won't spend the money when it counts (Schobel, Rolle, etc.), and Kubiak continues to be on one week, off the next, on one half, and off the the next. It is ridiculous man, and I am just getting tired of seeing it.

I am sick and tired of the excuses!!!! Oh, we just don't have the personnel, our defensive backs just aren't good enough, our defensive tackles just aren't good enough, our running backs just aren't good enough, and the excuses go on and on and on!

Every team has weaknesses. Every freaking team in the NFL! But every year we continue to use our one or two weaknesses as our excuses for why we can never get over the damn hump. So when for you guys do the excuses stop? As I said man, I mean no disrespect in what I am saying. I honestly would like to know how you continue to be okay defending this organization. I mean sometimes I feel like the ardent defenders of the McNair organization are just like the homers defending the Obama administration constantly making excuses for why things aren't getting better.

:rake:

Lucky
10-10-2010, 08:05 PM
Kubiak spoke to several players today. I know it's out of the norm, but I saw him speak to Kareem, Bernard, Schaub & AJ... some of them more than once.
I saw what I saw. And that was a coach on an island.

houstonspartan
10-10-2010, 08:06 PM
Bill, come on man. You're awesome dude and one of my favorite posters, but when is enough enough for you? I mean the way this team week in and week out can only perform well enough to get the job done when their backs are against the wall points to one thing: poor coaching and poor game planning.

Every year it is the same thing and I feel like I am freaking bipolar with this team. Every year I start out believing Kubiak is the man for the job and he will be the guy to get us to the promised land. Actually, what else am I supposed to think? If I just think we are going to suck and the coach is a failure, why go through the pain, misery, and depression I feel on days like this?!?

But the man continues to do the same things and this organization continues to do the same damn things. We won't spend the money when it counts (Schobel, Rolle, etc.), and Kubiak continues to be on one week, off the next, on one half, and off the the next. It is ridiculous man, and I am just getting tired of seeing it.

I am sick and tired of the excuses!!!! Oh, we just don't have the personnel, our defensive backs just aren't good enough, our defensive tackles just aren't good enough, our running backs just aren't good enough, and the excuses go on and on and on!

Every team has weaknesses. Every freaking team in the NFL! But every year we continue to use our one or two weaknesses as our excuses for why we can never get over the damn hump. So when for you guys do the excuses stop? As I said man, I mean no disrespect in what I am saying. I honestly would like to know how you continue to be okay defending this organization. I mean sometimes I feel like the ardent defenders of the McNair organization are just like the homers defending the Obama administration constantly making excuses for why things aren't getting better.

:rake:

You had me up until your last sentence. And we just know Bush did a fantastic job as President, yes? That doucebag damn near ruined this freaking country.

I suggest you leave politics out of the discussion about football.

thunderkyss
10-10-2010, 08:06 PM
Fact: Kubiak and Co. have had FIVE drafts.

Fact: Every player on this team has been chosen by Kubiak and Co.

How many NFL coaches out there have had five drafts with their current team without making the playoffs? What's the average duration of an NFL career?

You're speaking as if we aren't going to make the play-offs this year. If that were the case, you're right, we need a change...... But to this point, Kubiak & crew has only had 4 shots at making the play-offs, they are on their fifth try now.

Personally, I'm devastated by what I saw today, what I saw vs the Cowboys, what I saw against the 'Skins, & even what I saw against the Colts. The one thing we thought we had, the passing game really isn't were it needs to be.

I believe that starts with our QB. He doesn't beat the blitz with any regularity. He doesn't extend plays. & he's throwing an awful lot of ducks, five games into the season.

I never thought we were supposed to be the Baltimore Ravens, or the NYJets. I understand we have problems on defense, but we knew that going in. I knew the defense was going to have to get better as the season went on.

Today's fiasco, in my mind, is hard to pin on the defense.... 33 points.. 400 yards of offense. I mean we got two turnovers & the offense did squat with them. In Dallas, we scored 6 points outside of garbage time. I believe we ran the ball so much against Indy, because we couldn't throw it.

If we can control the game on the offensive side of the ball, we can turn this thing around. With Kubiak as our HC, I feel comfortable that we can do that.

Why he hasn't grabbed the offense by the neck yet, I don't know.

But it's time.

Lucky
10-10-2010, 08:12 PM
I suggest you leave politics out of the discussion about football.
Yes. There's a place for political discussion. This is not that place.

Ckw
10-10-2010, 08:34 PM
You had me up until your last sentence. And we just know Bush did a fantastic job as President, yes? That doucebag damn near ruined this freaking country.

I suggest you leave politics out of the discussion about football.

Actually, you fell right into my trap and did exactly what I wanted you to do and made my argument for me. It's all deflection. My point wasn't about politics or Obama or Bush. My post was about Gary Kubiak, and the Kubiak's band of merry men and their ability to constantly find every reason why it isn't his fault.

Obama & Bush = Kubiak & our secondary/DTs/RBs/etc.

Ckw
10-10-2010, 08:37 PM
Yes. There's a place for political discussion. This is not that place.

And just to clarify, my comment wasn't intended to bring about political discussion. It was simply the best analogy I could think of, and spartan did exactly what I wanted him or someone else to do: mention Bush when I was talking about Obama just as people mention our weaknesses when we bring up Kubiak's failures.

Texan4Ever
10-10-2010, 08:43 PM
Its probably been mentioned before but taking a franchise to its first ever playoff is the not the easiest thing in the world to do. Heck, even in the playoffs its hard to get a playoff team to the divisional championship game!

As long as we don't go 3-13 and improve upon our 9-7 record or make it to the playoffs we should be good. I know I'm bitter after a game but we have to realize that this is football and this is why teams play. Look at the Rams, they took down the Skins' but were humbled by the Lions who lost four straight game before winning one.

We still have a long way to go so lets see what happens...:worldpeace:



GO TEXANS! :texflag:

PockyAF
10-10-2010, 08:43 PM
Actually, you fell right into my trap and did exactly what I wanted you to do and made my argument for me. It's all deflection. My point wasn't about politics or Obama or Bush. My post was about Gary Kubiak, and the Kubiak's band of merry men and their ability to constantly find every reason why it isn't his fault.

Obama & Bush = Kubiak & our secondary/DTs/RBs/etc.

http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k478/daniel78753/DrEvilLaugh.gif

Ckw
10-10-2010, 09:00 PM
http://i327.photobucket.com/albums/k478/daniel78753/DrEvilLaugh.gif

:spit:

Hilarious dude!!! Rep!

houstonspartan
10-10-2010, 09:10 PM
And just to clarify, my comment wasn't intended to bring about political discussion. It was simply the best analogy I could think of, and spartan did exactly what I wanted him or someone else to do: mention Bush when I was talking about Obama just as people mention our weaknesses when we bring up Kubiak's failures.

Bull****.

You know what? I happent to be watching W. on cable right now. Great film. You are doing exactly what Bush and his clowns did: Make it up as you go along, then change things later to save face.

Just for the record, I have been calling for Kubiak's head for a long time now. As I said originally, I agreed with you. Until you brought up politics. You could have easily made your point w/out getting political.

Ckw
10-10-2010, 09:15 PM
Bull****.

You know what? I happent to be watching W. on cable right now. Great film. You are doing exactly what Bush and his clowns did: Make it up as you go along, then change things later to save face.

Just for the record, I have been calling for Kubiak's head for a long time now. As I said originally, I agreed with you. Until you brought up politics. You could have easily made your point w/out getting political.

Dude, chill out. You are a bit too wound up. For the record, and then I want to stop with the political discussions period, I think Bush was a TERRIBLE president. I just don't think Obama has been any better, and this isn't the NSZ so I'm not going to go into the reasons why I don't think he has been any better.

Read my post again. I wasn't saying EVERYONE that supports Obama also supports Kubiak. That has nothing to do with it. I just find it uncanny how people continue to be able to make excuses for these two guys. It was an ANALOGY. That's it. No more, no less. And for the record, please don't tell me you are basing your opinions of Bush on the movie W, a good movie yes, but not exactly a historical documentary.

Now, go smoke a joint and chill the f out.

HTown2ATX
10-10-2010, 09:24 PM
Dude, WTF? Obama = moron and W = moron....they were both effing epic morons. You don't see that = blindness... :gun:

Back to football..... :gun:

I'm not at the point of firing Kubes, I can't lay it all at his feet. This team has always done the ole win one, lose one routine with an occasional winning streak (2005 being the exception as we only lost).

Really you could see this loss coming a mile away. Think about it...

Win big game in Washington....check
Lose big game to Dallas..........check
Win "bouncback" game in OAK..check
Lose follwoing game epically....check

So expect a win next week and the old "all is well" feeling from the FO to the coaches.

Inconsistency is the only thing consistent at reliant (with the exception of horrible secondary) :choke:

houstonspartan
10-10-2010, 09:24 PM
Dude, chill out. You are a bit too wound up. For the record, and then I want to stop with the political discussions period, I think Bush was a TERRIBLE president. I just don't think Obama has been any better, and this isn't the NSZ so I'm not going to go into the reasons why I don't think he has been any better.

Read my post again. I wasn't saying EVERYONE that supports Obama also supports Kubiak. That has nothing to do with it. I just find it uncanny how people continue to be able to make excuses for these two guys. It was an ANALOGY. That's it. No more, no less. And for the record, please don't tell me you are basing your opinions of Bush on the movie W, a good movie yes, but not exactly a historical documentary.

Now, go smoke a joint and chill the f out.

You started this. Not me. And, no, I am not basing my opinions about The Frat Boy on the movie W.

History is what it is.

eriadoc
10-10-2010, 09:26 PM
You're speaking as if we aren't going to make the play-offs this year. If that were the case, you're right, we need a change...... But to this point, Kubiak & crew has only had 4 shots at making the play-offs, they are on their fifth try now.

As I clarified in a subsequent post, that is exactly my premise. If the team makes the playoffs this year, then I'm not on the Fire Kubiak bandwagon. And as I also clarified, I want him to be around for a long while. I like the man. But this is the year - playoffs or bust.

After the Colts game, I thought privately to myself that I'd get excited when they played well offensively against a 3-4 defense. If this is the sometimes-on, mostly-off offense we'll see for the rest of the year, then we're done. If the defense continues at its current pace (and I see no real reason to suspect it won't), we're screwed.

So I guess my optimism has gone from cautiously optimistic to mostly pessimistic. I fully recognize that a good deal of that attitude is formed as a result of being a Texans fan for all this time. I mean, I'm somewhat intelligent. I can detect trends.

houstonspartan
10-10-2010, 09:26 PM
Dude, WTF? Obama = moron and W = moron....they were both effing epic morons. You don't see that = blindness... :gun:

Back to football..... :gun:

I'm not at the point of firing Kubes, I can't lay it all at his feet. This team has always done the ole win one, lose one routine with an occasional winning streak (2005 being the exception as we only lost).

Really you could see this loss coming a mile away. Think about it...

Win big game in Washington....check
Lose big game to Dallas..........check
Win "bouncback" game in OAK..check
Lose follwoing game epically....check

So expect a win next week and the old "all is well" feeling from the FO to the coaches.

Inconsistency is the only thing consistent at reliant (with the exception of horrible secondary) :choke:

Amen. Both presidents have major issues.

Moving on, I agree with you. I had a really bad feeling the last couple of days about this game. We were a bit too fired up after Oakland. And, of course, we will now probably beat the hell out of KC.

Thorn
10-10-2010, 09:28 PM
Inconsistency is the only thing consistent at reliant (with the exception of horrible secondary) :choke:


That pretty much sums up the Texans in my opinion. Up, down, up, down, and here we go again. LOL

Pollardized
10-10-2010, 09:37 PM
Bull****.

You know what? I happent to be watching W. on cable right now. Great film. You are doing exactly what Bush and his clowns did: Make it up as you go along, then change things later to save face.

Just for the record, I have been calling for Kubiak's head for a long time now. As I said originally, I agreed with you. Until you brought up politics. You could have easily made your point w/out getting political.

What channel is W. on?

Ckw
10-10-2010, 09:40 PM
You started this. Not me. And, no, I am not basing my opinions about The Frat Boy on the movie W.

History is what it is.

Amen. Both presidents have major issues.

Moving on, I agree with you. I had a really bad feeling the last couple of days about this game. We were a bit too fired up after Oakland. And, of course, we will now probably beat the hell out of KC.

Did you not read when I said the following:

For the record, and then I want to stop with the political discussions period, I think Bush was a TERRIBLE president.

The point was it isn't about Bush or Obama or Clinton or Lincoln or Jefferson or your great grandma. My only purpose in even mentioning Obama was to state that it is amazing how people when they want to can make excuses for anything they want. Maybe a better analogy for you would have been that people are so good at making excuses for Kubiak they would probably be successful at convincing the world that their **** doesn't stink.

:facepalm: We certainly do live in an overly sensitive society...

Hervoyel
10-10-2010, 09:44 PM
I've been watching Houston NFL teams take the field since roughly 1976 now that I think about it. I was 11 then and when I look back my memories are kind of fuzzy and a little biased from general nostalgia and fondness for the time. One thing remains true without any exception and that's the fact that every team I ever watched play football was a direct reflection, for better or worse of it's coach.

Bum Phillips teams weren't sophisticated or exceptionally talented but they never quit and they left everything they had out on the field. Ed Biles teams appeared to lack direction as his tenure went on. Initially they were the same bunch of moderately talented overachievers that Bum Phillips had coached but as the games went by you could tell they lacked a motivator. Hugh Campbell's Oilers were low on both talent and experience and reflected his finesse approach to the game. They were soft and more often than not pushed around all over the field. Jerry Glanville's Oilers were angry, aggressive, and stupid and played dirty football with a chip on their shoulder just like the pompous little midget who led them wanted them to. Jack Pardee took that team and taught them a better version of their offense but never could teach them discipline. In fact I don't think he even tried. His team had the same disoriented look on their faces he had when things didn't go well. Jeff Fisher's Oilers I didn't pay attention to because they were a lame duck and I wasn't putting any money in Bud Adams pocket if I could help it.

Dom Capers Texans were a lot like Hugh Campbell's Oilers. Lacking in talent (on the field and on the sideline) they played simple, boring, unimaginative football that their "mimbo" rookie QB could understand. The first incarnation of the Texans was too stupid to do much of anything without shooting itself in the foot. In one word they looked lost much like a man with more than he can handle on his plate. I think that's an apt description of Dom Capers the Head Coach.

Gary Kubiak's Texans are.... frustrating and hard to figure out. There's something wrong with them on both sides of the ball and they are to a man Gary's guys. Make no mistake, if the team looks good it's on Gary and if the team looks like they did today then that's on Gary too. This is his mess. He picked them, he coaches them, and he tells them what to do. OK, so his coordinators do that last one but he picked those men as well. What you see on the field is a direct reflection of Gary Kubiak and what he's capable of doing. 5 drafts, 5 training camps, 5 shots at free agency are on display this season and there is no single factor that can possibly outweigh the imprint of Gary Kubiak and the job he's done.

We are 3-2 and tied for first place in our division. We went 3-1 in the first quarter of the season. We're 0-1 to start the second. If we enter the bye week at 4-2 and still holding on to a piece of the division lead then much of this will die down. If we slide into our bye week at 3-3 then the two weeks prior to the Colts on Monday Night Football will be filled with howls for Kubiak's head by fans who will have paid to see a 1-3 team at home.

I'm waiting until the Monday night game against the Colts to decide what I think about this bunch.

FirstTexansFan
10-10-2010, 09:45 PM
:facepalm: We certainly do live in an overly sensitive society...

Watch it, you may hurt my feewings :)