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barrett
09-10-2009, 01:31 PM
http://espn.go.com/blog/afcsouth/post/_/id/3078/for-texans-cbs-out-with-backpedal-in-with-shuffle

New defensive backs coach David Gibbs has altered the style of his group. Watch them shuffle three times instead of employing a backpedal.

“We don’t backpedal here at all,” said Quin, a rookie in line to work as the nickelback. “You shuffle, shuffle, run. We didn’t do that in college, it was three steps backpedal, then break. This technique we’re using now I think is a lot easier, I think it gives you a better opportunity to make plays. You’ve got your hips open, you can run or break.

“Champ Bailey uses it a lot and Coach Gibbs coached Champ in Denver. That’s where the technique came from, and Champ let it be known that it can be played and it’s skyrocketed from there. It’s more natural. It’s pretty simple. If you do everything right it can be the best technique. It’s like a backpedal except you’re already open. You’re really doing the same thing but you’re ready to run. You slow your shuffle down, you can break either way.”

I'll be looking for this on Sunday for sure.

Vinny
09-10-2009, 01:37 PM
your hips are open but it seems to me that it would be easier for a wr to get you turned around with crossing patterns or out patterns.

Kaiser Toro
09-10-2009, 02:41 PM
There is more than one way to skin a cat, and our cat skinning the last seven years in the secondary didn't get it done.

I like the buy-in from Quin, but this fan base is beyond buy-in, we need results.

HOU-TEX
09-10-2009, 02:59 PM
"Super Awesome Technique...."? Did I venture off to a Star Wars message board or something?

"Hey Poindexter, take a look at my new super awesome technique with my lightsaber".

JK, dude. Just sounded kinda nerdy

Porky
09-10-2009, 03:03 PM
I've heard the term "open hips" used many times, but I'm not sure I totally understand the concept. Can Vinny or one of the real football gurus explain what is meant by open hips?

Vinny
09-10-2009, 03:17 PM
I've heard the term "open hips" used many times, but I'm not sure I totally understand the concept. Can Vinny or one of the real football gurus explain what is meant by open hips?when your knees are in front of you, your hips are closed. You backpedal with closed hips. When you turn and run you open your hips by getting your knees outside of your body. Coaches say that the hips don't lie and your feet always follow your hips so you concentrate on rotating your hips moreso than moving your feet. Some guys can't open up and turn and run as fast as others

Porky
09-10-2009, 03:21 PM
when your knees are in front of you, your hips are closed. You backpedal with closed hips. When you turn and run you open your hips by getting your knees outside of your body. Coaches say that the hips don't lie and your feet always follow your hips so you concentrate on rotating your hips moreso than moving your feet. Some guys can't open up and turn and run as fast as others

Ahhh. Ok makes total sense. Thanks for the education Vincent! :devilpig:

eriadoc
09-10-2009, 03:24 PM
your hips are open but it seems to me that it would be easier for a wr to get you turned around with crossing patterns or out patterns.

I don't see that at all. With this method, you can easily move left or right. So out patterns have no special advantage against this at all, and the crossing pattern is likely only going to mess up the guy that doesn't have his assignment correct in his head.

If I'm understanding what they're saying correctly, then this method will keep the players on the balls of their feet the same, but with minimal separation from the ground. That results in less body rise/body fall, which makes it easier to move laterally, keeps your balance better, and makes it easier to turn and move your center.

Vinny
09-10-2009, 03:26 PM
I don't see that at all. With this method, you can easily move left or right. So out patterns have no special advantage against this at all, and the crossing pattern is likely only going to mess up the guy that doesn't have his assignment correct in his head.

If I'm understanding what they're saying correctly, then this method will keep the players on the balls of their feet the same, but with minimal separation from the ground. That results in less body rise/body fall, which makes it easier to move laterally, keeps your balance better, and makes it easier to turn and move your center.if you are not backpeddling you are turned one way or another. On choice routes a wr is always going to choose to run to the side of the field the cb isn't facing. It only takes a second to create space in this league.

76Texan
09-10-2009, 03:26 PM
when your knees are in front of you, your hips are closed. You backpedal with closed hips. When you turn and run you open your hips by getting your knees outside of your body. Coaches say that the hips don't lie and your feet always follow your hips so you concentrate on rotating your hips moreso than moving your feet. Some guys can't open up and turn and run as fast as others

I have an example, but I don't think it's suitable for this forum, LOL!

Anyway, I remember reading about Sean Smith (Utah)... why his stiff hips do not allow him to open up to turn/change direction. Why he reverts to the shuffle and bail technique. But that allows the receiver to get separation as Vinny had mentioned.

And why some thought he would do better at safety.

Porky
09-10-2009, 03:29 PM
if you are not backpeddling you are turned one way or another. On choice routes a wr is always going to choose to run to the side of the field the cb isn't facing. It only takes a second to create space in this league.

Again excuse my ignorance here, but on the outside receivers, what if the DB played more to the outside shoulder of the receiver so that it almost forces the WR to take the inside position?

76Texan
09-10-2009, 03:35 PM
Again excuse my ignorance here, but on the outside receivers, what if the DB played more to the outside shoulder of the receiver so that it almost forces the WR to take the inside position?

Then you give up the quick slant route easily, for one!

HOU-TEX
09-10-2009, 03:36 PM
I have an example, but I don't think it's suitable for this forum, LOL!

Anyway, I remember reading about Sean Smith (Utah)... why his stiff hips do not allow him to open up to turn/change direction. Why he reverts to the shuffle and bail technique. But that allows the receiver to get separation as Vinny had mentioned.

And why some thought he would do better at safety.

FWIW, Sean Smith has beaten 1st rounder Vontae Davis out for the starting CB spot opposite Will Allen.

Just thought I'd throw a little meaningless info out there.:)

eriadoc
09-10-2009, 03:36 PM
if you are not backpeddling you are turned one way or another. On choice routes a wr is always going to choose to run to the side of the field the cb isn't facing. It only takes a second to create space in this league.

I see the difference in what was in my head and what they're saying. They are turned sideways - I remember seeing this now. Of course, that raises a couple questions for me, but I'll work those out on the mat.

76Texan
09-10-2009, 03:37 PM
FWIW, Sean Smith has beaten 1st rounder Vontae Davis out for the starting CB spot opposite Will Allen.

Just thought I'd throw a little meaningless info out there.:)

I read that one awhile ago!
Just thought I throw out the same! :ant:

Runner
09-10-2009, 03:54 PM
There is more than one way to skin a cat, and our cat skinning the last seven years in the secondary didn't get it done.

I like the buy-in from Quin, but this fan base is beyond buy-in, we need results.

I'm in!

Porky
09-10-2009, 04:02 PM
Then you give up the quick slant route easily, for one!


What if you have safety or LB help inside? :headhurts:

76Texan
09-10-2009, 04:15 PM
What if you have safety or LB help inside? :headhurts:

That can be good, for example, when I watched Patrick Chung play the rover for the Ducks last year. He would hover close to the LOS and switched quickly to the outside receiver (and more often than not, he will make a good tackle for a very short gain).

However, that would be double team.
And a proficient passing attack won't go into the double team.
It will go elsewhere, looking for a one-on-one situation surely! :shades:

Porky
09-10-2009, 04:25 PM
That can be good, for example, when I watched Patrick Chung play the rover for the Ducks last year. He would hover close to the LOS and switched quickly to the outside receiver (and more often than not, he will make a good tackle for a very short gain).

However, that would be double team.
And a proficient passing attack won't go into the double team.
It will go elsewhere, looking for a one-on-one situation surely! :shades:


Ok then we're doomed! :gun:

76Texan
09-10-2009, 04:37 PM
Ok then we're doomed! :gun:

It's not nearly as bad as that!
The rover still has an eye on the RB, so if you play it this way, you don't necessarily have to commit to a double team.
Just that your rover needs to be fast in case the RB go the other way.

Ehhr, we don't have a super fast safety either, LOL! :headhurts:

AnthonyE
09-10-2009, 04:42 PM
"Super Awesome Technique...."? Did I venture off to a Star Wars message board or something?

"Hey Poindexter, take a look at my new super awesome technique with my lightsaber".

JK, dude. Just sounded kinda nerdy

Haha! The second I read "Poindexter", I busted out laughing.

Must spread rep.

dtran04
09-10-2009, 08:39 PM
So maybe Reeves will know the ball is coming now? :)

El Tejano
09-11-2009, 12:00 AM
if you are not backpeddling you are turned one way or another. On choice routes a wr is always going to choose to run to the side of the field the cb isn't facing. It only takes a second to create space in this league.

Drew Hill used to eat up CBs with this. He would take one step inside and then break outside and next thing you know....1st Down!!

Specnatz
09-11-2009, 12:18 AM
What ever technique the Texans use it sucks and they will get torched.

michaelm
09-11-2009, 12:48 AM
What ever technique the Texans use it sucks and they will get torched.

LOL, you're a few months early, Mr. Grinch!!!

barrett
09-11-2009, 02:00 AM
"Super Awesome Technique...."? Did I venture off to a Star Wars message board or something?

"Hey Poindexter, take a look at my new super awesome technique with my lightsaber".

JK, dude. Just sounded kinda nerdy

You have pinpointed me actually. When it comes to the nitty gritty of what the coaches are actually asking the players to do my little football light saber (go ahead guys, run with it if you'd like) gets glowing something fierce!

I'm so hungry for this kind of stuff. The more I learn about what the team is trying to accomplish the more I enjoy the games and rooting for the team. (and the more accurate my analysis becomes.)

michaelm
09-11-2009, 02:21 AM
"Super Awesome Technique...."? Did I venture off to a Star Wars message board or something?

"Hey Poindexter, take a look at my new super awesome technique with my lightsaber".

JK, dude. Just sounded kinda nerdy

You have pinpointed me actually. When it comes to the nitty gritty of what the coaches are actually asking the players to do my little football light saber (go ahead guys, run with it if you'd like) gets glowing something fierce!

I'm so hungry for this kind of stuff. The more I learn about what the team is trying to accomplish the more I enjoy the games and rooting for the team. (and the more accurate my analysis becomes.)

That's cool and all, but couldn't you do it without ever mentioning your "light saber" again? Ever.


Really.

Ever.

DocBar
09-11-2009, 02:29 AM
That's cool and all, but couldn't you do it without ever mentioning your "light saber" again? Ever.


Really.

Ever.

it may not be long but it sure is skinny

Thorn
09-11-2009, 06:52 AM
Some folks light sabers are bigger than others.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6hDZt1e0ofY/SUHItRZgzYI/AAAAAAAACmA/U-ZoR6wmiRQ/s400/star+trek+stalagtite.jpg

Malloy
09-11-2009, 07:09 AM
Some folks light sabers are bigger than others.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6hDZt1e0ofY/SUHItRZgzYI/AAAAAAAACmA/U-ZoR6wmiRQ/s400/star+trek+stalagtite.jpg

And the 'Coffee on the screen' award goes to... :)

HOU-TEX
09-11-2009, 10:12 AM
Some folks light sabers are bigger than others.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_6hDZt1e0ofY/SUHItRZgzYI/AAAAAAAACmA/U-ZoR6wmiRQ/s400/star+trek+stalagtite.jpg

Yeah, mine's in the background to the right.

whiskeyrbl
09-11-2009, 10:45 AM
Again excuse my ignorance here, but on the outside receivers, what if the DB played more to the outside shoulder of the receiver so that it almost forces the WR to take the inside position?
I think you would ultimately try to stay on the inside shoulder forcing the reciever towards the sideline so there is less field of play for the reciever to be in. However I guess it all depends on the defensive coverage assignments at any given time ( zone... cover two... mike blitz and so on). just my .02

Texans_Chick
09-11-2009, 01:26 PM
I talked to a player some about this subject. His version of it was more like what Bush was talking about.

In the past, they were taught, right away, to immediately go into their backpeddle. From a mechanical standpoint, it isn't very fluid, and it gets players very defensive right away, and for some types of plays puts them in an immediate disadvantage for some routes when you are facing a WR.

The shuffle technique, as taught, allows the DBs to more fluidly follow the WR--the DBs have to be disciplined in using it, but the theory is that it allows the corners to use the athleticism that they already have.

TheRealJoker
09-11-2009, 02:10 PM
I talked to a player some about this subject. His version of it was more like what Bush was talking about.

In the past, they were taught, right away, to immediately go into their backpeddle. From a mechanical standpoint, it isn't very fluid, and it gets players very defensive right away, and for some types of plays puts them in an immediate disadvantage for some routes when you are facing a WR.

The shuffle technique, as taught, allows the DBs to more fluidly follow the WR--the DBs have to be disciplined in using it, but the theory is that it allows the corners to use the athleticism that they already have.

That's something that I like to hear. Something I never saw with Richard Smith's "push the square peg into the round hole" approach to coaching defense. Our CBs for the most part are young, but their biggest strength is that all of them have very good athleticism. Bennett, Reeves, and Molden in particuar are 3 tall guys who can run which is a much coveted quality in CBs. Now hopefully Gibbs can make these boys play over their heads!!!

76Texan
09-11-2009, 02:37 PM
I talked to a player some about this subject. His version of it was more like what Bush was talking about.

In the past, they were taught, right away, to immediately go into their backpeddle. From a mechanical standpoint, it isn't very fluid, and it gets players very defensive right away, and for some types of plays puts them in an immediate disadvantage for some routes when you are facing a WR.

The shuffle technique, as taught, allows the DBs to more fluidly follow the WR--the DBs have to be disciplined in using it, but the theory is that it allows the corners to use the athleticism that they already have.

The shuffle technique was popular for quite awhile. It helps the DBs who don't have flex hips to turn. But it also has its own disadvantages. It's not like we hadn't use it last year. We did.

I pulled up the Dolphins game tape. And there was Reeves in the shuffle, on the outside shoulder of the receiver.
They use that technique to help Reeves locate the ball better.
On that certain play, it helped take away the outside route (supposedly).
But clearly, it gave up the inside easily.

Specnatz
09-11-2009, 04:27 PM
LOL, you're a few months early, Mr. Grinch!!!

My comment was in regards to others, nothing positive can be written about our D ever without someone going all Moriarty on the negativity.

76Texan
09-21-2009, 03:27 PM
Again excuse my ignorance here, but on the outside receivers, what if the DB played more to the outside shoulder of the receiver so that it almost forces the WR to take the inside position?

There were a couple of examples of a different way the offense can beat the shuffle easily in the Jets game.

I saw it but then forgot about it; now I don't remember the specific!
Both time our CB stayed on the inside shoulder of the WR.

The receiver would put a little move, faking to the inside, then they would turn to the outside and were wide open.

It took too long for our CBs to turn around to cover their men.

Vinny
09-29-2009, 11:26 AM
Ok, saw this play as I was rewatching the game and remembered this thread.

Cue up the DVR and go to 10:45 mark of the 3rd quarter with the score Jacksonville 17, Houston 21. Watch the play and then watch the replay isolation. It is 2nd and 5 on our 14 yard line and we can clearly see this new technique being used at the top of the screen. Instead of a backpedal where you can face the QB and drive on the ball or wr cut, we have Bennett using this turn and run technique. The WR makes a simple out move and Bennett is instantly facing the wrong direction. By the time he recovers the pass is complete and it's 1st and Goal from the 1.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 11:45 AM
Ok, saw this play as I was rewatching the game and remembered this thread.

Cue up the DVR and go to 10:45 mark of the 3rd quarter with the score Jacksonville 17, Houston 21. Watch the play and then watch the replay isolation. It is 2nd and 5 on our 14 yard line and we can clearly see this new technique being used at the top of the screen. Instead of a backpedal where you can face the QB and drive on the ball or wr cut, we have Bennett using this turn and run technique. The WR makes a simple out move and Bennett is instantly facing the wrong direction. By the time he recovers the pass is complete and it's 1st and Goal from the 1.

That's not the first time I saw those pathetic shuffles.
In all 3 games we played this season, the DBs were constantly had.
They need to scratch this shuffle dance unless they can somehow coach them up to play beyond their talent level, which is a very LOOOOOOOOONG stretch of imagination! :scarygirl:

Vinny
09-29-2009, 11:54 AM
That's not the first time I saw those pathetic shuffles.
In all 3 games we played this season, the DBs were constantly had.
They need to scratch this shuffle dance unless they can somehow coach them up to play beyond their talent level, which is a very LOOOOOOOOONG stretch of imagination! :scarygirl:since they played the replay and isolated the coverage this is a great capture if you want to see a fatal flaw in this style/technique. Frankly I haven't been impressed with the secondary as a whole since Gibbs has taken over, but no DL (outside of Mario) makes it tough to come to hard conclusions.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 11:57 AM
Two more examples in the 1st Qtr.

17 yd pass to Simms-Walker - Bennett
14 yd to Holt - Dunta

76Texan
09-29-2009, 12:02 PM
since they played the replay and isolated the coverage this is a great capture if you want to see a fatal flaw in this style/technique. Frankly I haven't been impressed with the secondary as a whole since Gibbs has taken over, but no DL (outside of Mario) makes it tough to come to hard conclusions.

I guess one of the positives is that they can be in position for an INT if the DL can generate pressure and force a mistake by the QB.
But that has not materialized!

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 12:11 PM
This technique is something that will take some time for the players to learn and get used to. Right now they're still thinking about it because it's not natural to them. For their entire careers they've been taught to backpeddle, then break or run, so that's what they do instinctively. Give them at least a little time to get used to it. Once it becomes natural to them, I think we may see some improvement.

You saw this last year with Slaton and the ZBS. He initially kept following his blockers rather than splitting them with the one cut. Once he started figuring it out, he looked like a star. In his first 3 games this season, he's again following blockers instead of splitting them, and is hesitant to make that one cut. I'm not sure what happened, but he looks indecisive all of a sudden.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 12:17 PM
This technique is something that will take some time for the players to learn and get used to. Right now they're still thinking about it because it's not natural to them. For their entire careers they've been taught to backpeddle, then break or run, so that's what they do instinctively. Give them at least a little time to get used to it. Once it becomes natural to them, I think we may see some improvement.

You saw this last year with Slaton and the ZBS. He initially kept following his blockers rather than splitting them with the one cut. Once he started figuring it out, he looked like a star. In his first 3 games this season, he's again following blockers instead of splitting them, and is hesitant to make that one cut. I'm not sure what happened, but he looks indecisive all of a sudden.
NO! We used it last year already; there's nothing new about this technique!

Vinny
09-29-2009, 12:26 PM
This technique is something that will take some time for the players to learn and get used to. Right now they're still thinking about it because it's not natural to them. For their entire careers they've been taught to backpeddle, then break or run, so that's what they do instinctively. Give them at least a little time to get used to it. Once it becomes natural to them, I think we may see some improvement.

You saw this last year with Slaton and the ZBS. He initially kept following his blockers rather than splitting them with the one cut. Once he started figuring it out, he looked like a star. In his first 3 games this season, he's again following blockers instead of splitting them, and is hesitant to make that one cut. I'm not sure what happened, but he looks indecisive all of a sudden.By the time the team is out of the playoffs we will be ready to start our winning streak. It's just how we roll.

DerekLee1
09-29-2009, 12:29 PM
NO! We used it last year already; there's nothing new about this technique!

I thought this was Gibbs' technique that he's teaching them? He wasn't hired until this season.

Hervoyel
09-29-2009, 12:29 PM
By the time the team is out of the playoffs we will be ready to start our winning streak. It's just how we roll.


Come on man, what kind of fan are you? We just need a couple more years to get to the playoffs is all. Charlie Casserly is responsible for everything you see out there and most of what you'll see in the next year and a half. He's still phoning in picks that hurt us!

Or maybe we just replaced "sucks" with "Doesn't suck as much but still sucks".

It's one of those I'm sure.

76Texan
09-29-2009, 12:57 PM
I thought this was Gibbs' technique that he's teaching them? He wasn't hired until this season.

No, this technique is as old as dirt!
But given that we only have half a real CB, it will have to do, I guess.
It does help the CB to see the QB and the ball better than they would otherwise.
The outside CB could release off his man to help out the nickel back and vice versa.

On the other hand, it is quite similar to the 7-10 yd cushion a lot of folks on here loath to death!

silvrhand
09-29-2009, 01:40 PM
I talked to a player some about this subject. His version of it was more like what Bush was talking about.

In the past, they were taught, right away, to immediately go into their backpeddle. From a mechanical standpoint, it isn't very fluid, and it gets players very defensive right away, and for some types of plays puts them in an immediate disadvantage for some routes when you are facing a WR.

The shuffle technique, as taught, allows the DBs to more fluidly follow the WR--the DBs have to be disciplined in using it, but the theory is that it allows the corners to use the athleticism that they already have.

I guess it all depends on how comfortable the player is, and what works for each individual. I could see on inside routes how this makes you more likely to get a jump on the ball, but on outs, and outs and up I would think you are really in a bad position as you are shuffling you can't really just stop your motion turn outside with the receiver. Seess like to me you'd have to spin around and how that you can get to him quickly, and then if he cuts on the up, out of the route I would think you are really behind then.

Shuffling would definitely put you in a better power position, but I suspect once receivers start to see this and learn where to get you to turn before they break it'll start eating you up. From my experience it's all about how well the receiver can tell when you are making your transition so he can set you up to make his break when you are out of position.

Deon never seemed to have a problem with backpedalling?

TimeKiller
09-29-2009, 03:05 PM
Deon never seemed to have a problem with backpedalling?


OH I guess we should just watch film of Deion Sanders then and try to emulate what he was....


....that's not a bad idea....:thinking:

bah007
09-29-2009, 04:23 PM
We played this technique all four years in high school. The quicker your hips are the better it will work for you.

Guys with good instincts and quick hips can make it work. But if you are slow on route recognition or if you can't get turned quickly you can get killed on the out, the out and up, the stop and go, and the fade.

Personally, I don't think we have the talent at corner to use it. You have to be able to read the WR and adjust quickly.

silvrhand
09-29-2009, 04:54 PM
We played this technique all four years in high school. The quicker your hips are the better it will work for you.

Guys with good instincts and quick hips can make it work. But if you are slow on route recognition or if you can't get turned quickly you can get killed on the out, the out and up, the stop and go, and the fade.

Personally, I don't think we have the talent at corner to use it. You have to be able to read the WR and adjust quickly.

I never played this technique in hs/college typically backpedal or press only. Quick question when the receiver pushes you to start your transition and he makes his out break do you have to do a full 180 and come back around and swing your head back around, I would think you wouldn't be able to just stop and swing back inside with the receiver due to your momentum.

This seems like it would be brutal to defend against a good out route, or do you just plant your leading foot and try to come back hard? Seems akward?

Wolf
09-29-2009, 05:22 PM
"Super Awesome Technique...."? Did I venture off to a Star Wars message board or something?

"Hey Poindexter, take a look at my new super awesome technique with my lightsaber".

JK, dude. Just sounded kinda nerdy

so "you have a bad feeling about this" ?

:whip:

GP
09-29-2009, 05:25 PM
Screw David Gibbs and the familial pony he rode in on.

LonerATO
09-29-2009, 05:38 PM
FWIW, Sean Smith has beaten 1st rounder Vontae Davis out for the starting CB spot opposite Will Allen.

Just thought I'd throw a little meaningless info out there.:)

I thought Sean Smith was one of the best CB's coming into last years draft. The kid has a good work ethic and he could also play Safety also.

Mr. White
09-29-2009, 06:00 PM
Screw David Gibbs and the familial pony he rode in on.

I thnk Terri Gibbs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kEDU7m2z14) is also from the Shanahan tree.

CloakNNNdagger
09-29-2009, 10:57 PM
your hips are open but it seems to me that it would be easier for a wr to get you turned around with crossing patterns or out patterns.

The shuffle was popularized in the early 90's, but the pendulum has definitely swung back to classic back pedal technique. It was basically developed because many of the DBs were showing poor technique in the "high step" back pedal.........they were actually not lifting their legs and shuffling backwards with closed hips. This led to unintentional slowing backward progress and an awkward "moonwalk" motion. And just maintaining balance was a trick since hips were closed. Breaking out of this pattern and changing direction was also slowed as compared to out of a crisply properly performed back pedal. Crossing patterns can definitely trip up the DB when he needs an immediate change of direction using the shuffle. You still see the shuffle thrown into the mix, but successful DBs like Champ Bailey all have the ole "high step" down perfectly.

GP
09-29-2009, 11:16 PM
I thnk Terri Gibbs (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-kEDU7m2z14) is also from the Shanahan tree.

Yeah, I'd say she has a future as a Texans coach.

Rep your way.

76Texan
10-01-2009, 05:18 PM
I never played this technique in hs/college typically backpedal or press only. Quick question when the receiver pushes you to start your transition and he makes his out break do you have to do a full 180 and come back around and swing your head back around, I would think you wouldn't be able to just stop and swing back inside with the receiver due to your momentum.

This seems like it would be brutal to defend against a good out route, or do you just plant your leading foot and try to come back hard? Seems akward?
The Jags ran at least a couple more slant-and-go routes similar to the three already mentioned in this thread.

I'd like to try to describe the one MJD ran at Wilson in the second half around the 12:30 mark from our 47yd line.
(That was a couple of plays before the one Vinny mentioned where they ran for Holt over Bennett on the other side of the field to inside our red zone.)

......

They put MJD as the wide out on the left side.
We had Wilson in coverage.

MJD started the slant route as he crossed the LOS, with a right step to the inside, then left, then another right. But he was only 20-30% off-vertical at the most.
Now he took a left step to the outside and he was ready for the go.

In summary, MJD, as he crossed the LOS, MJD went R-L-R.
Then L-R and go.

Wilson, on the other hand, was at an 80% angle (looking at the QB, but his number would be almost directly facing the Jags' sideline.)
In summary, he would do the opposite of MJD; L-R-L in the shuffle.
Then a big RIGHT step to the inside to turn, then L-R to gather momentum and catch up. A wasted step at the very least.

By now it's too late, MJD was gone.
Due to some pressure, Garrard's throw was off and behind.
It could have been a quick six; Wilson never had a chance to see the ball.
And he was doing a good job executing the shuffle and turn move.

(The idea of this technique is to help the CB to locate the ball, but in this instance, he was not helped; in fact, he was hurt by the technique!)

Corrosion
10-01-2009, 06:19 PM
Ok then we're doomed! :gun:

Almost makes you miss Petey Faggins and Jon Hoke ..... :shots:

Honoring Earl 34
10-01-2009, 06:32 PM
Almost makes you miss Petey Faggins and Jon Hoke ..... :shots:

The names change but the characters are the same . :foottap:

Vinny
10-02-2009, 04:52 PM
This is the time for Russell to shine: I spoke to KC Joyner, the Football Scientist, this week. Joyner, a number cruncher supreme, said he believes Oakland quarterback JaMarcus Russell could have a decent game against Houston. If not, Joyner surmised, Russell really may be on his way to becoming a bust. Joyner thinks Houston has one of the worst defensive backfields in the league based on his computing. Houston’s cornerbacks are allowing big plays at an alarming rate. http://espn.go.com/blog/AFCWest/post/_/id/4596/afc-west-final-word-3

spurstexanstros
10-02-2009, 06:48 PM
Almost makes you miss Petey Faggins and Jon Hoke ..... :shots:

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo


sound of me if they came back

76Texan
10-03-2009, 11:40 AM
They can still use the technique, but they would have to be very careful.
Let's say if they intend to take away the out route completely, then they know they will have to give up the inside routes.
The safeties and LBs will have to be aware of the situations and they need to play together as a unit.

At this moment, there were just too many holes in the zones because guys haven't been stretching their area correctly.

76Texan
10-03-2009, 03:00 PM
In other instances where they have the CB concentrating on the in-route, then the safety over the top needs to be ready to help on the outside route.

The OLB or DE needs to make the drop/jump sooner toward the outside in looking for the INT.
They have to be decisive and cannot be in between places, ending up not helping either route.

After studying those plays more closely, there are still hopes; but you're asking guys like Barwin, Cushing, Diles, Ryans to be better at defending the pass. The two young guys might have the best shot to improve in this area, but in the last 3 games, we just didn't have it!

Wolf
11-14-2010, 06:05 PM
bumping this being I didn't want to start a new thread


with the secondary so bad a (I know inexperience is killing them), I don't see him coming back after this season(or I should say I will be surprised if he stays)

I thought about Gibbs while watching the game and they had a slow motion replay of one of our CB's backpedaling

Rey
11-14-2010, 06:07 PM
bumping this being I didn't want to start a new thread


with the secondary so bad a (I know inexperience is killing them), I don't see him coming back after this season(or I should say I will be surprised if he stays)

I thought about Gibbs while watching the game and they had a slow motion replay of one of our CB's backpedaling

At this rate, I will be surprised if any of the coaching staff is back.

This just isn't on Gibbs...They all suck.

Mr. White
11-14-2010, 06:11 PM
At this rate, I will be surprised if any of the coaching staff is back.

This just isn't on Gibbs...They all suck.

Nothing to base it on, but I bet "going young" was a Gibbs call. The older guys probably weren't "Gibbs guys."

Now I know why.

Rey
11-14-2010, 06:17 PM
Nothing to base it on, but I bet "going young" was a Gibbs call. The older guys probably weren't "Gibbs guys."

Now I know why.

I am sure he had his input, but lets examine this a bit more.

Had they kept Reeves and Bennett who would have most likely been the odd men out?

McMannis and Paymah/Molden????

The players who would be getting a majority of the time are the players that are out there now. They were hell bent on starting Kareem...They were sold on Quinn as a starter...They obviously like McCain for some reason (I don't know why)....

Maybe they would have been more comfortable with rotating in Quinn and Reeves when these guys struggled a bit, but I'm not so sure they would do much better...They were pretty bad as well....

I don't think those guys would have made us a whole lot better any ways...What do you think??????

Jackie Chiles
11-14-2010, 06:25 PM
I wish they would just "shuffle, shuffle, run" the heck out town. I remember reading this article when it came out. Didn't think much of it at the time. Now its obvious we are outsmarting ourselves.

Mr. White
11-14-2010, 06:36 PM
I am sure he had his input, but lets examine this a bit more.

Had they kept Reeves and Bennett who would have most likely been the odd men out?

McMannis and Paymah/Molden????

The players who would be getting a majority of the time are the players that are out there now. They were hell bent on starting Kareem...They were sold on Quinn as a starter...They obviously like McCain for some reason (I don't know why)....

Maybe they would have been more comfortable with rotating in Quinn and Reeves when these guys struggled a bit, but I'm not so sure they would do much better...They were pretty bad as well....

I don't think those guys would have made us a whole lot better any ways...What do you think??????

In hindsight, going younger was a huge mistake.

They thought it was a good idea to go younger in 2005 too.

I could go through every DB that got replaced on the roster and come up with a reason why they should have stayed so we'd have some experience on the roster. The big mistake was letting both Robinson and Reeves walk IMO.

You can't really assign blame for it either without talking out of your ass. Might have been Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak, Frank Bush, David Gibbs, or any combination of them.

I'm sure Gary Kubiak said "it's on me" at some point since the decision was made.

Rey
11-14-2010, 07:11 PM
In hindsight, going younger was a huge mistake.

They thought it was a good idea to go younger in 2005 too.

I could go through every DB that got replaced on the roster and come up with a reason why they should have stayed so we'd have some experience on the roster. The big mistake was letting both Robinson and Reeves walk IMO.

You can't really assign blame for it either without talking out of your ass. Might have been Rick Smith, Gary Kubiak, Frank Bush, David Gibbs, or any combination of them.

I'm sure Gary Kubiak said "it's on me" at some point since the decision was made.


I agree with that part. As much as I disliked Reeves, I think he would have been better than McCain.

Also, I thought we should have franchised Robinson and still brought in a corner in the first two rounds or in FA.

But I knew they weren't gonna franchise him again because that'd make them look stupid.

Mr. White
11-14-2010, 07:19 PM
I agree with that part. As much as I disliked Reeves, I think he would have been better than McCain.

Also, I thought we should have franchised Robinson and still brought in a corner in the first two rounds or in FA.

But I knew they weren't gonna franchise him again because that'd make them look stupid.

I think the reason they didn't franchise Dunta is because he would have made Rick Smith's life miserable this season.