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View Full Version : A look at Texans "46" defensive front.


LZ
09-03-2009, 05:00 PM
Here is a link to my football newsletter which has a "film session" section towards the bottom where I take a look at the Texans use of the "46 defense".

One of the reasons that they utilize it, according to a team insider I spoke with, is because Gary Kubiak has had the Texans practice against that front since it is the hardest defense for zone teams to run against. I guess the Texans have decided to incorporate it more often now since more and more teams are including zone packages into their running game.

There is a TON of college football in the newsletter this week but obviously I'll have more pro football info once next week starts. I hope you enjoy the look at the 46.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19407504/2009-View-Week-One

TexansFanatic
09-03-2009, 05:08 PM
Man, I'd love to see more of that. I really miss the 46 defense the Oilers played under Buddy.

76Texan
09-03-2009, 05:14 PM
Here is a link to my football newsletter which has a "film session" section towards the bottom where I take a look at the Texans use of the "46 defense".

One of the reasons that they utilize it, according to a team insider I spoke with, is because Gary Kubiak has had the Texans practice against that front since it is the hardest defense for zone teams to run against. I guess the Texans have decided to incorporate it more often now since more and more teams are including zone packages into their running game.

There is a TON of college football in the newsletter this week but obviously I'll have more pro football info once next week starts. I hope you enjoy the look at the 46.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/19407504/2009-View-Week-One

What are we supposed to do here LZ?

Double Barrel
09-03-2009, 05:17 PM
Nice analysis, LZ. I dig the 46 when you have the players to pull it off successfully, but like you mentioned, it is risky against the pass. And considering the state of our CBs and safeties, it might even be riskier. But I like the aggressive play calling that Bush is putting out there, so hopefully we'll see some major run-stuffing by this defense.

rmartin65
09-03-2009, 05:25 PM
I love the 46. I always choose it in the NFL head Coach games.

pbat488
09-03-2009, 05:28 PM
Good read, thanks Lance.

mussop
09-03-2009, 05:36 PM
I was starting to wonder if anyone else noticed how poor our secondary is at run support. Are we ever going to get a safety that can defend the pass and is aggressive in run support? In eight years we have never had one that could do both equally as well. Sad!

Someone needs to plant some drugs in Taylor Mays gym bag before next years draft.

Brisco_County
09-03-2009, 05:38 PM
The 46 can be high risk against the pass, but it is one of the toughest defenses to face for teams who like to run zone plays.

I imagine that if you have a fast DE like Mario or Barwin then there's not much risk of a downfield pass, but TE screens or slot receivers are going to be a problem.

That said, I still like this formation for our front seven.

whiskeyrbl
09-03-2009, 06:26 PM
Nice info LZ.

thunderkyss
09-03-2009, 07:32 PM
Doesn't the 46 defense incorporate a "Jack" LB who replaces the SAM? & I thought what made the 46 distinguishable, was that the Jack & the Will played on the strong side?

I know it's only wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/46_defense), but their description sounds more like what I remembered.

Mario should be where Adibi is. Ready to rush from the weakside. Amobi & Antonio should switch places, with your strondside DE lined up over the Strongside Guard. Adibi should be where Diles is, and Diles should be where Mario is.

...........TE... OT..OG..C..OG..OT.........
.....54......52.....94....95..91.........90......
....................59..................34.....
..................................26.............. .


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/46_green.svg/800px-46_green.svg.png

thunderkyss
09-03-2009, 07:44 PM
From Scout.com (http://chi.scout.com/2/646395.html)

Two outside linebackers act as the fifth and sixth down linemen. They line up side by side on the opposite end of the field from the rush end. The middle linebacker and strong safety round out the eight players in the box, beginning each play 4-5 yards off the line of scrimmage. The strong safety, in essence, becomes the fourth linebacker.

V3rm0nt3r
09-03-2009, 07:56 PM
eh, i like the way Bush used it more. it spreads out the lb's more so that they can't just run the ball toward them. if i'm reading into this right (and please correct me if i am) the point of this D is to free up DeMeco and allow him to make the play on the ball. i like the idea of it but i'd rather have our big guys anchoring the line at different points and not just used as block-takers.

thunderkyss
09-03-2009, 08:00 PM
eh, i like the way Bush used it more. it spreads out the lb's more so that they can't just run the ball toward them. if i'm reading into this right (and please correct me if i am) the point of this D is to free up DeMeco and allow him to make the play on the ball. i like the idea of it but i'd rather have our big guys anchoring the line at different points and not just used as block-takers.

With 6 men on the LOS.... and Demeco bust'n a$$ all over the field, you may be right. With our personel, this formation may be the way to go. With Mario out there, outside the strongside.... that may change the TEs responsibilty, and keep him from releasing......

You're right, maybe this is an evolution of the 46.

LZ
09-03-2009, 08:13 PM
Nice analysis, LZ. I dig the 46 when you have the players to pull it off successfully, but like you mentioned, it is risky against the pass. And considering the state of our CBs and safeties, it might even be riskier. But I like the aggressive play calling that Bush is putting out there, so hopefully we'll see some major run-stuffing by this defense.

I think the 46 could be a nod to the fact that the Texans realize they might not be able to sit in their base defense and stop the run and they will probably have to scheme it up a little more than they did last year.

LZ
09-03-2009, 08:16 PM
From Scout.com (http://chi.scout.com/2/646395.html)


It's just a different alignment. It basically involves covering up the offensive linemen and getting your MLB running free while dropping a safety in the box as well. Don't get too worked up over the Wiki page.

LZ
09-03-2009, 08:18 PM
eh, i like the way Bush used it more. it spreads out the lb's more so that they can't just run the ball toward them. if i'm reading into this right (and please correct me if i am) the point of this D is to free up DeMeco and allow him to make the play on the ball. i like the idea of it but i'd rather have our big guys anchoring the line at different points and not just used as block-takers.


It isn't about just occupying blockers just to free up one LB, it is also about making it tough to get to the second level for offensive linemen which is the key to blocking 8 in the box. In fact, it is the only way to block 8 in the box and when you take the 2nd level blocking away from the offensive line, it makes it VERY tought to run. Down side is obviously the big plays through the passing game since many teams will check to something else if they see you in the 46.

RipTraxx
09-03-2009, 08:21 PM
While i like the aggresiveness. This is putting a LOT of stress on an average FS (Wilson)

b0ng
09-03-2009, 08:40 PM
Someone needs to plant some drugs in Eric Berry's gym bag before next years draft.

Fixed that for ya.

dtran04
09-03-2009, 09:09 PM
Kinda explains why Demeco was making all the tackles while the other LBs were tied up.

Vinny
09-03-2009, 10:25 PM
very nice stuff Lance....You better have good tacklers and good safety play if you are going to run 46 looks. There isn't much margin for error if a lineman breaks into the second level. Fisher has always put a premium on quality S play.

Tailgate
09-03-2009, 11:08 PM
Didn't Minny run some of this? I remember the safety coming up and making a couple of big tackles when we ran wide. Wonder if this is part of the reason we struggled to get the running game going on Monday? Memory could be off.

mussop
09-04-2009, 03:25 AM
Didn't Minny run some of this? I remember the safety coming up and making a couple of big tackles when we ran wide. Wonder if this is part of the reason we struggled to get the running game going on Monday? Memory could be off.

Yeh their safeties were coming up strong. I dont think people realize how much of a impact safety play like that can have on a D. In fact this defense wont be anything but average until we do IMO.

leebigeztx
09-04-2009, 05:12 AM
I've always thought teams prematurely stop using the 46. It has flaw just like any other defense. Sure the pass in the flats backside to the rb is open, but that guy is almost always open. Just like with any defense, its about the players. I like the flexibility of it and the chaos it causes. One things for sure,the cb's can't give up inside leverage.

thunderkyss
09-04-2009, 08:09 AM
So if the safety makes the play, it's the 46 defense????????????????????

Tailgate
09-04-2009, 10:52 AM
So if the safety makes the play, it's the 46 defense????????????????????

What??

LZ: It's just a different alignment. It basically involves covering up the offensive linemen and getting your MLB running free while dropping a safety in the box as well. Don't get too worked up over the Wiki page.

I was referencing that I thought I remembered Minny having LBs come up and freeing the MLB and yes, the SAFETY coming in hard and quick as if he was up in the box pre-snap.

TimeKiller
09-04-2009, 11:41 AM
I think our safety's just won't be able to hack it if they start using the 46 too much. Nice to see that they can throw more pitches but a big helping of changeups is going to end in a big helping of homeruns given up.

Right now I can't think of a reason to keep Barber on the field except his age. Ferguson might not be all that but he sure as hell will be in on a few run stops.

thunderkyss
09-04-2009, 12:02 PM
Didn't Minny run some of this? I remember the safety coming up and making a couple of big tackles when we ran wide. Wonder if this is part of the reason we struggled to get the running game going on Monday? Memory could be off.

So if the safety makes the play, it's the 46 defense????????????????????



What??



I was referencing that I thought I remembered Minny having LBs come up and freeing the MLB and yes, the SAFETY coming in hard and quick as if he was up in the box pre-snap.

I'm just asking a question. Do you think it's a 46 defense if the safety is in the box?

Yankee_In_TX
09-04-2009, 12:24 PM
Cool, learned something new today.

Tailgate
09-04-2009, 12:25 PM
I'm just asking a question. Do you think it's a 46 defense if the safety is in the box?

Here is the quote again. The LB part was already assumed. And I was the one asking the question.

Quote:
LZ: It's just a different alignment. It basically involves covering up the offensive linemen and getting your MLB running free while dropping a safety in the box as well. Don't get too worked up over the Wiki page.

TheRealJoker
09-04-2009, 01:09 PM
I think with this setup we're gonna see DeMeco return to his all pro form.

thunderkyss
09-04-2009, 01:14 PM
Didn't Minny run some of this?

No.

I remember the safety coming up and making a couple of big tackles when we ran wide.

Is this why you think they were running the 46?

Wonder if this is part of the reason we struggled to get the running game going on Monday?

Good tackling from the Safety? Yeah, that was part of it.

badboy
09-04-2009, 01:44 PM
Great defense until you run into a passing Qb with a solid Oline. With our CBs a QB should be slobbering all over himself. I'd send a running play a couple times then pass for a TD. Run a few plays to keep the safeties up in the box and throw another TD. Score would be about 45 to whatever Texans could score.

76Texan
09-04-2009, 02:17 PM
We use this same fomrmation in the 2nd qtr of the Saints game once.
The weakside guard went up the second level and cleared out Barber.
Mike Bell shot through that gap for 12 yards before Wilson can get there to help.

badboy
09-04-2009, 02:21 PM
I think my favorite D is the 3-4 if you have the right players, especially at NT. Oh, well.

LZ
09-04-2009, 03:14 PM
Kinda explains why Demeco was making all the tackles while the other LBs were tied up.

They weren't in the 46 front that often on Monday. They just "dabbled". Ryans was just a beast Monday.

76Texan
09-04-2009, 03:40 PM
Doesn't the 46 defense incorporate a "Jack" LB who replaces the SAM? & I thought what made the 46 distinguishable, was that the Jack & the Will played on the strong side?

I know it's only wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/46_defense), but their description sounds more like what I remembered.

Mario should be where Adibi is. Ready to rush from the weakside. Amobi & Antonio should switch places, with your strondside DE lined up over the Strongside Guard. Adibi should be where Diles is, and Diles should be where Mario is.

...........TE... OT..OG..C..OG..OT.........
.....54......52.....94....95..91.........90......
....................59..................34.....
..................................26.............. .


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/07/46_green.svg/800px-46_green.svg.pngThe TD run by Peterson also saw us in a six-man front.

Diles was on the outside and Wilson next to him on the inside (across the TE).

Tailgate
09-04-2009, 10:35 PM
No.

Is this why you think they were running the 46?


Good tackling from the Safety? Yeah, that was part of it.

Geese. Took you like 3 posts to answer the actual question. And you keep repeating the safety part like u are actually proving something. Learn to read. Let me break it down for you. If you go with the flow of the thread it was already pointed out that the 46 was a combination of the LBs up on the line and sometimes the safety up in the box. And my question was trying to clarify if I remembered correctly seeing that in the Minny game. Noticing the Safety coming in quick and possibly because he was already playing tight due to the 46 discussion. Which is why I posted LZs quote TWICE. Thats what I thought I saw. Hence you simply could have addressed that part... AS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION. NO, I dont think that the effing 46 D is solely from the Safety coming up in the box. Wow.

Vinny
09-05-2009, 01:41 PM
Geese. Took you like 3 posts to answer the actual question. And you keep repeating the safety part like u are actually proving something. Learn to read. Let me break it down for you. If you go with the flow of the thread it was already pointed out that the 46 was a combination of the LBs up on the line and sometimes the safety up in the box. And my question was trying to clarify if I remembered correctly seeing that in the Minny game. Noticing the Safety coming in quick and possibly because he was already playing tight due to the 46 discussion. Which is why I posted LZs quote TWICE. Thats what I thought I saw. Hence you simply could have addressed that part... AS MY ORIGINAL QUESTION. NO, I dont think that the effing 46 D is solely from the Safety coming up in the box. Wow. yeah...TK is, well....unique. You fill all the gaps and bring in a S to play up close like a linebacker. The very reason the defense is called the "46" is because of Doug Plank and his ability to play at a high level. Plank was a starting safety for the Bears when Ryan developed this package. To me, the Texans are really going to give up lots of big plays if they use this defense very often unless their Safety play really cranks it up a notch. You need stellar play back there or you just give up lots of big plays.