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Apoc6
02-10-2005, 02:26 AM
our OL definitely needs help(via FA or the draft). I dont think we should look past any stud OT unless there is a stud Offensive player or even a shut down corner available.

dalemurphy
02-10-2005, 09:01 AM
We don't need tackles!! we need help on the interior line! Wade and Wand were not the problem last year, and, they aren't going anywhere for a long time.

F-minus67
02-10-2005, 11:55 AM
We already have our two towers on the outside. Pitts is going to be the starter for years to come, Wiegert is a solid player when he is healthy and thats not often I'm sad to say. So the only position that needs an upgrade this offseason would be center since McKinney gets wipped by big DTs.

Blake
02-10-2005, 12:19 PM
Can anyone say Ben Wilkerson in the 3rd? Just hope he is there.

Lucky
02-10-2005, 12:19 PM
...So the only position that needs an upgrade this offseason would be center...
I'm no fan of Steve "some guys were getting beat, but itís going to happen like that" McKinney. But to lay ALL of the blame on him for the O-line's problems is unfair. Each of the team's offensive linemen (including reserves) underachieved. Sure, injuries played a part. As did the new blocking scheme. But, each and every one of the linemen must play better or risk losing their job. Other than Wade & his $30 million contract, there are no sacred cows on the Texans O-line.

Number19
02-10-2005, 12:37 PM
Can anyone say Ben Wilkerson in the 3rd? Just hope he is there.
IMO, a better plan of action would be to trade down and target David Baas as our first selection. He could understudy both McKinney and Weigert in the short run and eventually settle in where he's most effective.

Nawzer
02-10-2005, 12:56 PM
I also think blaming McKinney for all our o-line problems is unfair. I think everyone had problems last year but I thought Weigert didn't play as well. Wand definitely had his problems but that's to be expected of a young guy like him. As for drafting an o-linesman, it isn't going to solve our problems immediately. No matter how talented he is, he's still going to be a rookie and he will struggle. As far as I know there are talented offensive line players in this draft but no can't miss talents yet. If we do draft a guy at that position we should not expect him to pay dividends for a few years atleast. That's why I think we should look to develop the players we have currently and sign veteran FAs. We are supposed to make the playoffs next year so we have to make sure that our o-line can protect David Carr consistently and not get dominated for parts of the game. So if we do draft a o-line guy early I don't expect him to start this season. So I think we should concentrate on defense and improve our pass rush attack in this year's draft.

keyfro
02-10-2005, 01:29 PM
you know what i don't think mckinney is out biggest problem on the o-line i think wand isn't as good as many of ya'll give him credit for...pitts is solid...weigert is way too injury-prone to be counted on...i think drafting barron might be the way to go if spears isn't there...as for the interior line...i think getting someone who can fill in for weigert when he's hurt and he will be hurt is a smart idea...elton brown in the second or marcus johnson would be excellent picks

Grid
02-10-2005, 01:31 PM
Wiegert was great but seemed to be struggling with zone defense. Wade, Wand and Pitts all seem solid to me. I think.. unless it is absolute BPA.. we should NOT grab a stud olineman in the first, or the second for that matter. in the 3rd or 4th we should be able to pick up a quality Guard/Center that could be groomed to replace McKinney in the future, or Wiegert if he continues to struggle with the zone blocking.

The oline is of great importance.. but we were experimenting last year and you dont just scrap the oline cause they didnt perform like gods during it. THey need a bit more time.. hopefully another offseason learning zone blocking will get them where they need to be.


but.. to play devils advocate to myself. If we could pick up a fast and skilled LT.. someone who could handle dwight freeney twice a season.. that could be a good thing too. Even if it is in the first or second round.

Vinny
02-10-2005, 01:42 PM
I'm not sold on any of the Tackle prospects in this draft. I bet that after the combine we will find that the top guys are rated below guys like Shawn Andrews and Vernon Carey last year (they were the two first rd line picks last year). This is a miserable year to find a Tackle because there are no elite Tackles in this draft and only a couple of guys who can project fairly well.

astrofan
02-10-2005, 02:47 PM
why does everyone want a tackle with a reconstructed shoulder? haven't we had enough of that song and dance?

out of our interior lineman we have two good backups in Pitts and McKinney and the rest just don't cut it

If our linebacker squad had more than two starters (Babin and Sharper), then I wouldn't object to at least two first day interior lineman

I understand the Spears/Wilkerson craziness coming from the Tiger fans, but let's be serious: Wilkerson has too much trouble with the injuries and we have many greater needs than a backup defensive end with the first pick

as far as a freeney-specific tackle how about the big guy from Washington State, Calvin Armstrong. If Suggs hadn't of played against him in Armstrong's sophomore season, who knows how many sacks he could have had for the year. If Wand can't stop freeney with two arms, then I shudder to think what Barron could (or could not) do with one...

Honoring Earl 34
02-10-2005, 03:02 PM
:howdy: Who said Spears would be a back up ? Its always amazing how so many people can watch the same team and come up with so many different views . I think linebacking is one of the deeper units . Wade is the best on the OL . If we had time to throw our recievers would look better . If we had a better DL our LBs and DBs would look better . Robaire Smith is the only DL that you can count on . Walker could bounce back , Paine could heal , Deloach is OK so drafting Spears is a need .

texasguy346
02-10-2005, 04:31 PM
I tend to be of the mindset that you have to have a stable of good DLinemen in the NFL so that you can rotate them in to keep them fresh. I would love to have Spears, and I'm sure he'd get plenty of PT once he gets a grasp on the playbook. We have a young and talented LB corp, and I imagine will get pick up another LB or two in this upcoming draft. I second Honoring Earl as far as DLinemen making your LBs look better, and the pressure the LBs apply is more effective making your DBs not have to cover as long. I am not a Tiger fan, but I'd be happy to see Spears and/or Wilkerson in a Texans uniform. Granted there are other G/C that I'd like to see us get ahead of Wilkerson like Baas or E. Brown or J. Brown. Texansfan88 has mentioned Jelanin Clement of Hampton in the past as well, and I really haven't seen anything of him to say whether I'd like him taken over Wilkerson.

Lucky
02-10-2005, 05:03 PM
...I bet that after the combine we will find that the top guys are rated below guys like Shawn Andrews and Vernon Carey last year...
So is the bet that 2 O-linemen won't go in the top 19? Sounds interesting. :)

Number19
02-10-2005, 06:02 PM
The problem with trying to upgrade your offensive line through FA is that the talent available is going to be third, forth, fifth round talent about mid-way through their playing career. These players were dominated by the better college defensive talents - the players eventually taken in the first and second rounds - and for the most part will continue to be dominated by this same level of talent. If your current talent level is really pathetic, you can upgrade through FA. But you reach a point where if you want to reach a higher level, you have to have two or three of the more elite players. Occassionally, there may be exceptions to this general rule when coaching is able to produce exceptional results. IMO, the Texans need the talent upgrade represented by Baas.

Number19
02-10-2005, 06:06 PM
I'm not sold on any of the Tackle prospects in this draft. I bet that after the combine we will find that the top guys are rated below guys like Shawn Andrews and Vernon Carey last year (they were the two first rd line picks last year). This is a miserable year to find a Tackle because there are no elite Tackles in this draft and only a couple of guys who can project fairly well.
Thinking ahead, the 2006 draft is going to be exceptionally strong at the OT position, with 9 or 10 guys already on the radar.

Grid
02-10-2005, 06:45 PM
Chiefs

LT Willie Roaf - 1st Rnd
LG Brian Waters - Rookie Free Agent
C Casey Weigmann - Rookie Free Agent
RG Will Shields - 3rd Rnd (74th)
RT Jordan Black - 5th Rnd (153rd)

Broncos

LT Matt Lepsis - Rookie Free Agent
LG Ben Hamilton - 4th (113)
C Tom Nalen - 7th (218)
RG Dan Neil - 3rd (67th)
RT George Foster - 1st (20th)


See.. you do not need a 1st or 2nd round player to build a good line. Each of these lines have ONE 1st round choice.

We have three 2nd rounders (Wade & Pitts & Wiegert) one 3rd rounder (Wand) and one 4th (McKinney).



just to show that 1st round linemen dont mean success. The Chicago Bears.. worst Oline in the league.. had three 1st round Olinemen on their roster.

the oline is all about teamwork. a good oline isnt made up of first round picks.. its a bunch of guys that are used to playing next to each other and know the system. Any guy who is big, athletic, and smart, could be a possible star olineman.

Number19
02-10-2005, 07:31 PM
Chiefs

LT Willie Roaf - 1st Rnd
LG Brian Waters - Rookie Free Agent
C Casey Weigmann - Rookie Free Agent
RG Will Shields - 3rd Rnd (74th)
RT Jordan Black - 5th Rnd (153rd)

Broncos

LT Matt Lepsis - Rookie Free Agent
LG Ben Hamilton - 4th (113)
C Tom Nalen - 7th (218)
RG Dan Neil - 3rd (67th)
RT George Foster - 1st (20th)


See.. you do not need a 1st or 2nd round player to build a good line. Each of these lines have ONE 1st round choice.

We have three 2nd rounders (Wade & Pitts & Wiegert) one 3rd rounder (Wand) and one 4th (McKinney).



just to show that 1st round linemen dont mean success. The Chicago Bears.. worst Oline in the league.. had three 1st round Olinemen on their roster.

the oline is all about teamwork. a good oline isnt made up of first round picks.. its a bunch of guys that are used to playing next to each other and know the system. Any guy who is big, athletic, and smart, could be a possible star olineman.

What you write has merit, but I also said there are exceptions. Denver has really good line coaching; KC I'm not familiar with.

But I'm also more interested in the level of talent, not so much where players are actually taken in the draft. Although we took Pitts at 2C, he was generally rated as a 4th round talent. Wand was completely off the board. Chicago - don't know what to say about them other than they really screwed the pooch.

What you say about teamwork - I agree, but still, superior talent will dominate lesser talent. What we need is an upgrade in talent level, not just exchanging one mediocre talent for another mediochre talent. As an example, based on past performance and a little guesswork, I'd say our current starting five may be capable of a season where they give up only 25 to 30 sacks. I'm expecting something around 30 next season. I don't think they are capable of a superior performance where they give up only 10 to 15 sacks.

Grid
02-10-2005, 07:49 PM
And I dont think you can base Oline talent on where they should be drafted or who they played against in college. Give me an Olineman that is smart.. 6'5" 300 pounds or so.. long arms.. quick feet.. I dont care what college he plays for.. he could play for the university of spokan.. if he has the physical gifts, and can learn the position.. then he has a chance to be as good as any other lineman in the league.

on the line.. you are only as strong as your weakest link.. so go ahead and throw some platinum links on there if ya want.. but it doesnt make any difference if you are connecting them to copper and brass.

ya get what im saying?

Our line we currently have is as capable as any other line in the league.. they just need to learn to play together, and use the zone blocking to their advantage.

As for the result of denver being the product of good coaching... well.. maybe we should think about a new coach before we start dishing out multimillion dollar contracts then.