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View Full Version : Is Amobi a bust?


blitz90
08-29-2009, 09:23 AM
From what your un-trained eyes have seen, is Amobi-Wan a bust?

False Start
08-29-2009, 09:40 AM
I'll give him one more chance this season. If he doesn't step it up this year he will be on the verge of bust.

TexanBacker93
08-29-2009, 09:40 AM
From what your un-trained eyes have seen, is Amobi-Wan a bust?

I think it is still too early. It was one of the problems with taking such a young player. I'd like to see more out of him, but I hesitate to call him a bust. I thought he had some flashes in his first season so the talent is there.

eriadoc
08-29-2009, 09:46 AM
This is his 3rd season. If he doesn't produce this year, he's a bust as a first round pick, regardless of what he ends up doing the rest of his career.

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2009, 09:47 AM
The signs are concerning. But I'll wait to see how things settle out with a more stable supporting cast and more time to develop and season the "new attitude" and proposed "new D scheme."

Thorn
08-29-2009, 09:58 AM
the signs are concerning. But i'll wait to see how things settle out with a more stable supporting cast and more time to develop and season the "new attitude" and proposed "new d scheme."

qft

GP
08-29-2009, 09:58 AM
After reading this board for the past few months, and seeing him play in the preseason games thus far, I voted that he IS a bust.

And now we see why teams passed on him (such as Miami).

He's just not going to play "up" to an NFL level for a DT.

We need to hire a specialist who can help us with drafting defensive tackles in the first round. We're about to be 0-2.

b0ng
08-29-2009, 10:04 AM
Showed too much flash out of the gate for me to call him a bust.

Also, if he turns a corner and breaks out during his career nobody is going to call him a bust. Haynesworth didn't show his talent until it was a contract year, but once he did nobody (media, forums, or otherwise) has uttered the word "bust" when speaking of him.

I have a feelin Okoye will be here at least until his contract expires, like TJ.

Vinny
08-29-2009, 10:38 AM
I'm very critical of his play but I'd say it's too early in lieu of his age. It's not his fault the Texans made him a 10th overall pick. He gets a pretty nice apprentice wage though...must be nice. Now, I'm very concerned with his inability to anchor and sustain his gap integrity. That's a huge problem with a DT. It's like saying our QB is coming along but the only problem he has is he can't throw. I thought he shot gaps better as a rookie but I think the NFL Guards have figured out that he can't bull rush so it makes him too one-dimensional as a DT. Frankly, if I have a one dimensional DT, I'd rather him be a run stopper than a gap shooter.

Not to totally dog on Ak0ye so I'll say something positive about his play....His one consistent strength is that he is an asset when the play is away from him because he has the foot speed to be an above average player laterally. That's a big part of having lighter, quicker linemen. If you can seal off all your cut back lanes then your linebackers can tee off more recklessly and be more decisive about the direction they are headed when they know the DT's are right on their heels cleaning up the cut backs.

Buffi2
08-29-2009, 10:39 AM
Third year - time to see what Amobi can do when he puts his mind to it. Give him this year before we start screaming for heads to roll. I'm willing to be patient - you never know when the light will go off in his young brain. If that light is going to shine, it should be this year.

rollinstone18
08-29-2009, 11:10 AM
Okoye was great for the first half of his rookie year so it's not like he doesn't have the talent or ability. But considering we could have drafted Willis or Revis (guy I wanted) instead of Okoye, I'd say the Texans FO are more to blame. I'm pulling for Okoye, but this year he has no choice but produce. Next year's DT draft class is going to be sick.

The Pencil Neck
08-29-2009, 12:13 PM
I've got to see what he does this year.

This year, the scheme is supposed to be geared toward his strengths.

GP
08-29-2009, 01:20 PM
I'm very critical of his play but I'd say it's too early in lieu of his age. It's not his fault the Texans made him a 10th overall pick. He gets a pretty nice apprentice wage though...must be nice. Now, I'm very concerned with his inability to anchor and sustain his gap integrity. That's a huge problem with a DT. It's like saying our QB is coming along but the only problem he has is he can't throw. I thought he shot gaps better as a rookie but I think the NFL Guards have figured out that he can't bull rush so it makes him too one-dimensional as a DT. Frankly, if I have a one dimensional DT, I'd rather him be a run stopper than a gap shooter.

Not to totally dog on Ak0ye so I'll say something positive about his play....His one consistent strength is that he is an asset when the play is away from him because he has the foot speed to be an above average player laterally. That's a big part of having lighter, quicker linemen. If you can seal off all your cut back lanes then your linebackers can tee off more recklessly and be more decisive about the direction they are headed when they know the DT's are right on their heels cleaning up the cut backs.

So our first rounder is a role player. Not an impact player.

That's how Amobi strikes me: A guy who can contribute, but he's never going to get his name in the papers on Monday.

m5kwatts
08-29-2009, 01:26 PM
Bust is way too harsh...people forget that he really produced his rookie season and last year was the big disappontment, despite him having nagging injuries all year

barrett
08-29-2009, 01:34 PM
Yeah, he's not a bust but he has been disappointing. There wasn't a vote option for that. I still argue that he can be a very good pass rusher.

Lucky
08-29-2009, 01:49 PM
Frankly, if I have a one dimensional DT, I'd rather him be a run stopper than a gap shooter.
A one dimensional DT can be effective, if he's exceptional in that dimension. John Randle was an exceptional 3 technique DT, because he had exceptional quickness. I thought the Texans were getting that type of DT in 0-koye. Other than a handful of games at the beginning of his career, I haven't seen a glimpse of that Randle type ability.

Maybe he's been miscast as an everydown player. Has Amobi bulked up too much to rush the passer, but still not enough to anchor versus the run? I don't have the answer. I just know that what's been tried thus far isn't working.

One of the biggest problems when building almost strictly through the draft is that you have little room for error in your draft selections. Kubiak & Smith spent a very valuable resource on 0-koye. I don't think they can afford to see him bust.

barrett
08-29-2009, 02:01 PM
A one dimensional DT can be effective, if he's exceptional in that dimension. John Randle was an exceptional 3 technique DT, because he had exceptional quickness. I thought the Texans were getting that type of DT in 0-koye. Other than a handful of games at the beginning of his career, I haven't seen a glimpse of that Randle type ability.

I think he's looked very good shooting gaps in preseason. He wasn't asked to do that last year. He's getting good penetration and doing it quickly. But it's in passing situations only.

Marcus
08-29-2009, 02:38 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1235180&postcount=9

And BTW, purposely butchering a player's name in order to make some kind of statement is lame, classless, and disrespectful, in my opinion.

:soapbox:

m5kwatts
08-29-2009, 02:45 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1235180&postcount=9

And BTW, purposely butchering a player's name in order to make some kind of statement is lame, classless, and disrespectful, in my opinion.

:soapbox:

I'm not even sure I get the pun....0-koye?

eriadoc
08-29-2009, 04:18 PM
I'm not even sure I get the pun....0-koye?

I believe it was supposed to be Ok0ye - zero in the middle. And meh ... it happens to every player that fans talk about. I guess the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

eriadoc
08-29-2009, 04:21 PM
I'm very critical of his play but I'd say it's too early in lieu of his age. It's not his fault the Texans made him a 10th overall pick.

I don't disagree with anything you posted, and I usually feel kind of bad for players who are put in that position (Babin, anyone?), but the thing is, if Okoye had been a 7th round poick, no one would be using the bust word at all in conversations about him. If he was a 3rd round pick, people would be saying it's about time he showed something, anything, but still not bust.

The word "bust" is kind of wrapped up in the expenditure. You don't usually hear of late-round guys as busts. So like it or not, I think he's a bust after this season if he doesn't prove he can be an every-down player. He may go on to do something later on, especially given his age, but it will be like when Mandarich went on to have a few productive years after he was labeled. JMO.

brakos82
08-29-2009, 04:23 PM
For a split second, I thought the title read "Is Amobi a robot?". :user:

m5kwatts
08-29-2009, 04:23 PM
I believe it was supposed to be Ok0ye - zero in the middle. And meh ... it happens to every player that fans talk about. I guess the only thing worse than being talked about is not being talked about.

Thats not clever at all why not Immobile Okoye lol jk

Texan JBZ
08-29-2009, 04:34 PM
These were my feelings on Amobi after last year's Saints preseason game:


I just got finished watching the replay of the game on NFL Network. I focused primarily on the o-line and d-line to see what kind of problems the team was having stopping the run and running the ball. The one thing that stood out to me was how bad Amobi Okoye played. I mean, he flat out stunk. He had no burst off the ball, wasn't strong at the point of attack, was blown off the line of scrimmage several times, played too high, and showed absolutely no penetration. No motor at all!
...
But, I also watched his pad level, his burst off the line, his strength at the point of attack when the Saints ran the ball at him. It was not good. He was consistently pushed off the ball and was a non-factor. I saw at least three times when they weren't running a stunt and Amobi had one man blocking him on pass protection. His man wore him out every time.


Sounds familiar, eh? Amobi has had plenty of time too at least flash some potential. I don't see anything positive coming from him right now, and haven't seen anything for a long time. He's a bust in my book.

edo783
08-29-2009, 05:04 PM
Not yet, but he is on the precipice of being one.

Hervoyel
08-29-2009, 05:26 PM
Amobi is not a bust in my opinion. He is dangerously close to being a bust however and to be honest the only thing that prevents him from being a bust at this point (Because Travis Johnson sure as hell had hit bust status by this time) is his age.

Keep in mind something though. Even if he suddenly becomes what the Texans imagined he would be this year or next year he's still a bad pick. When you're as bad as the Texans have been you have no damned business taking wild shots at guys who are entering the NFL at 19 and who won't be able to help you until they grow up in 3-4 years. What kind of dumbass GM spends a first round draft pick on a guy who can't help you until he's one step from being written off entirely?

Smith has gotten lots of kudos for the good things he's done but seriously, this wasn't a good move for this team, at that time, and with those needs. I don't think anybody can truly refute that.

Hervoyel
08-29-2009, 05:29 PM
For a split second, I thought the title read "Is Amobi a robot?". :user:

A robot would have made some noise by now or, if he proved incapable of doing so he'd have upgraded himself to get the job done.

Amobi has done neither of these things so far and therefore I conclude he is not a robot or even a cyborg sent from the future to sack Peyton Manning into oblivion. He's just a very physically gifted young man who was taken far too soon in the draft.

Marcus
08-29-2009, 06:20 PM
Smith has gotten lots of kudos for the good things he's done but seriously, this wasn't a good move for this team, at that time, and with those needs. I don't think anybody can truly refute that.

A robot would have made some noise by now or, if he proved incapable of doing so he'd have upgraded himself to get the job done.

Amobi has done neither of these things so far and therefore I conclude he is not a robot or even a cyborg sent from the future to sack Peyton Manning into oblivion. He's just a very physically gifted young man who was taken far too soon in the draft.

Sorry Herv, I can refute it. To say this wasn't a good move for the team in hindsight two years after the draft is a no brainer. But I was here, and so were you on that draft day, and #10 on the board was not considered a reach by anyone.

If all the GMs had crystal balls in their pockets that day, Amobi wouldn't have been drafted in the 3rd round, much less than the first.

But no one did have a crystal ball that day. All they had to go on was potential. That's why first round picks are crap shoots. But to say that Smith didn't make a good move for this team, at that time . . . yup, I gotta refute that.

CloakNNNdagger
08-29-2009, 06:44 PM
Too young, too immature, too high, too soon, too little.......too late?

forcefollow
08-29-2009, 06:44 PM
In a word...... Yes.

mussop
08-29-2009, 07:28 PM
Sorry Herv, I can refute it. To say this wasn't a good move for the team in hindsight two years after the draft is a no brainer. But I was here, and so were you on that draft day, and #10 on the board was not considered a reach by anyone.

If all the GMs had crystal balls in their pockets that day, Amobi wouldn't have been drafted in the 3rd round, much less than the first.

But no one did have a crystal ball that day. All they had to go on was potential. That's why first round picks are crap shoots. But to say that Smith didn't make a good move for this team, at that time . . . yup, I gotta refute that.

Im refuting youre rufute. There where just as many people (fans and pros) that thought it was a bad move. Most here (including myself) wanted Willis. Go back and reread the draft threads about him and you will find many who thought his age was a concern. Remember the guy on ESPN licking his hand and saying OL are going to be licking there chops when they line up across from a 19 year old. At the time and still to this day this team needs high draft picks to contribute quickly. Its not like we have the luxury of abundance quality depth where we can draft guys and wait for them to grow into roles.

GNTLEWOLF
08-29-2009, 07:53 PM
As it stands right now.....bust

Hervoyel
08-29-2009, 07:59 PM
Sorry Herv, I can refute it. To say this wasn't a good move for the team in hindsight two years after the draft is a no brainer. But I was here, and so were you on that draft day, and #10 on the board was not considered a reach by anyone.

If all the GMs had crystal balls in their pockets that day, Amobi wouldn't have been drafted in the 3rd round, much less than the first.

But no one did have a crystal ball that day. All they had to go on was potential. That's why first round picks are crap shoots. But to say that Smith didn't make a good move for this team, at that time . . . yup, I gotta refute that.


I don't see how. I mean, sure it is no doubt hindsight to say it was a bad move but at the moment he was picked I was sitting in a room full of Texans fans including Vinny and there was a definite "WTF?" moment there. Nobody freaked out over it or leaped directly into denial but the "I hope the Texans know what they're doing" vibe was very much present that afternoon. Vinny was there and I know he recalls the 15-20 minutes of light hearted joking about taking Okoye. There was lots of joking about what his nickname would be but there was clear concern about picking a guy that young that high.

You didn't need a crystal ball to know that grabbing a 19 year old with the 10th pick was a bit of a leap of faith. We had just taken Mario Williams in 2006, Travis "The Slug" Johnson in 2005, and the unforgettable force that was Jason Babin in 2004. Three first round picks on the DL in three years and Smith opts to make it four in a row with Okoye? We didn't need linebackers? Patrick Willis went right after Okoye. We didn't need cornerbacks? Darrell Revis went four picks after that. Our running backs were set? We didn't need Marshawn Lynch who went at the 12th spot?

I knew all of those guys names on draft day in 2007. I'm sure you did too. It was a big reach and arguably less of a need than any of those other positions I just named. Lack of a credible running back, secondary, or linebacker beyond DeMeco Ryans are all perfectly valid needs that could have been addressed with safer choices than a 19 year old "Phenom" like Amobi who built his legend at Louisville in the Big East.

Once the team has picked it's not like they can throw him back in and pick again. Once the team has picked we all get on board and hope for the best. Hindsight is 20/20. The first round is full of gambles. Knowing when the Texans should gamble and when they should play it safe and make the obvious selection has been a problem from day one here through two GM's and a pair of coaches. This was another case of that happening. It made no sense for a number of reasons.

Water under the bridge though. He's here now and I sure hope this is the year we see the Amobi Okoye that we hoped to see.

Marcus
08-29-2009, 08:19 PM
Im refuting youre rufute. There where just as many people (fans and pros) that thought it was a bad move. Most here (including myself) wanted Willis. Go back and reread the draft threads about him and you will find many who thought his age was a concern. Remember the guy on ESPN licking his hand and saying OL are going to be licking there chops when they line up across from a 19 year old. At the time and still to this day this team needs high draft picks to contribute quickly. Its not like we have the luxury of abundance quality depth where we can draft guys and wait for them to grow into roles.

They DID NOT draft Amobi Akoye with the 10th pick to wait for him to grow into a role. Where are you guys getting this stuff? How do you know they didn't draft him thinking he could be an impact player immediately?

Just because you wanted Willis means didley squat. Hell, even I wanted Willis at the time. And no, I don't need to go back and read those threads. YOU do if you think it that most people thought it was a bad move. Revisionist history once again.

DocBar
08-29-2009, 08:45 PM
Reading this kinda makes me think of Detroit picking WR in the 1st for 2 or 3 yrs. in a row, and we haven't done much better. We got MW, they got CJ. A couple of busts for both teams, but as inept as the Lions are, they managed to somehow dupe Dallas into a 1st rounder for Roy Williams.We laways seem to let our guys just cash their checks and walk. The draft day adage of judging a draft in 3 years is applicable in this situation, so I'm not going to call AO a bust just yet. He DOES need to put it together quickly, though. I was all for picking him, but hindsight is showing me that I was looking through Battle Red colored glasses. It seems obvious now that he would be a bit of a project and that maybe he's just too damned smart to be a good interior defensive lineman. He's graduated everything with honors and in much less time than your normal player. Seriously, you have to be a bit off to play the line on either side of the ball. The stuff that goes on in the trenches will make a sane person weak in the knees. Maybe all those smarts makes him think too much instead of playing with instinct. All in all, I hope TJ goes all Haynesworth on the NFL in his contract year and Okoye brings what we thought he could bring when we drafted him.

mussop
08-29-2009, 08:46 PM
They DID NOT draft Amobi Akoye with the 10th pick to wait for him to grow into a role. Where are you guys getting this stuff? How do you know they didn't draft him thinking he could be an impact player immediately?

Just because you wanted Willis means didley squat. Hell, even I wanted Willis at the time. And no, I don't need to go back and read those threads. YOU do if you think it that most people thought it was a bad move. Revisionist history once again.

Do you really beleive they drafted a 19 year old and thought he would come in and be an impact player immediately? :barman: Have another one!

And most people didnt outright cry "bad move" but there was definatly an air of uncertainty about taking a player that young at a position that wasnt considered as big a priority as several other positions of extreme weakness. You can word it anyway you want but MOST people were SURPRISED by the pick at the very least.

steelbtexan
08-29-2009, 09:03 PM
The worst kind of bust. The one that you let go of and he gets a real S&C coach and gains 30 lbs of muscle at 23 years old and you look like a fool.

That is why I believe in getting dev. guys in the 4th rd. or later.

THink we could have had Darrell Revis.

I hope AO has a good work ethic.

I believe Smithiak's job depends on it.

If the DT's cant stop the run it's going to be a long season. IMO

I hate that the CC regime left Smithiak so little room for error that missing on AO could cost them their jobs.

Oh well I guess that's just the way it is.

SteveSlaton20
08-30-2009, 02:09 AM
he's young guys, younger than most rookies right now, chillax.

i wouldnt be surprise if he have another disappointing season this year, and if he does, i still wouldnt call him a bust. give him another year or two and he'll shine.

barrett
08-30-2009, 02:45 AM
then his contract is up and what did he accomplish for the Texans?

steelbtexan
08-30-2009, 10:47 AM
then his contract is up and what did he accomplish for the Texans?

Good ?

This is my point on why Smithiak shouldn't have drafted AO.

Especially when they passed on pro-bowl talent to draft AO.

Marcus
08-30-2009, 01:31 PM
Knowing when the Texans should gamble and when they should play it safe and make the obvious selection has been a problem from day one here through two GM's and a pair of coaches. This was another case of that happening. It made no sense for a number of reasons.

There is still a problem here with the hindsight prospective. At that time . . at that time . . at that time, without the benefit of hindsight, there was, there is, and there never will be, a "safe and obvious 1st rounder".

If that were the case, no team would ever, EVER bust out on a first round pick.

barrett
08-30-2009, 01:35 PM
great point. Some players are better evaluated by some teams than others though. I wouldn't have touched Andre Smith with a 10 ft twinkie. But Cincy has never learned. Crabtree.... same deal. And both those guys are superbly talented but they are high risks. Then you have a machine like NE who drafts a QB who never played a down in college and were able to start him for a year and go 11-5. Some teams are smarter than others. I think we're somewhere in the middle and hopefully on the way up.

thunderkyss
08-30-2009, 03:06 PM
I have nothing to add to this thread. Just playing with my WAcom tablet

This is pretty cool.

brakos82
08-30-2009, 03:15 PM
I have nothing to add to this thread. Just playing with my WAcom tablet

This is pretty cool.
That thing's awesome.

Lucky
08-30-2009, 05:34 PM
There is still a problem here with the hindsight prospective.
What problem? We're fans. What we say and when we say it has no bearing. What Kubiak and Smith do, and the results they get, is the only thing that counts. If Ok0ye (I prefer eriadoc's wordplay) busts, that's on Kubiak & Smith. Not the fans. No matter what their 2007 prognostication's were.

Marcus
08-30-2009, 06:04 PM
What problem? We're fans. What we say and when we say it has no bearing. What Kubiak and Smith do, and the results they get, is the only thing that counts. If Ok0ye (I prefer eriadoc's wordplay) busts, that's on Kubiak & Smith. Not the fans. No matter what their 2007 prognostication's were.

You want Kubiak and Smith fired, Lucky. We all get that. Unlike you, I'm not out looking to conjure up a some reason to play some kind of blame game.

Specnatz
08-30-2009, 06:52 PM
What problem? We're fans. What we say and when we say it has no bearing. What Kubiak and Smith do, and the results they get, is the only thing that counts. If Ok0ye (I prefer eriadoc's wordplay) busts, that's on Kubiak & Smith. Not the fans. No matter what their 2007 prognostication's were.

You are right it is on the Coach and the GM because they are the one getting paid and us fans are not. Fans get to have it both ways, love the pick the day it happens and expound upon how right it is. The a few years later we get to say how stupid the pick was and why it was stupid at the time. In other words we get to have our cake and it to.

Lucky
08-30-2009, 10:33 PM
You want Kubiak and Smith fired, Lucky.
I want the Texans to win, Marcus. Unlike the Sunshine Club, I couldn't care less who the head coach and GM are that makes that happen.

Vinny
08-30-2009, 10:45 PM
Sorry Herv, I can refute it. To say this wasn't a good move for the team in hindsight two years after the draft is a no brainer. But I was here, and so were you on that draft day, and #10 on the board was not considered a reach by anyone.

If all the GMs had crystal balls in their pockets that day, Amobi wouldn't have been drafted in the 3rd round, much less than the first.

But no one did have a crystal ball that day. All they had to go on was potential. That's why first round picks are crap shoots. But to say that Smith didn't make a good move for this team, at that time . . . yup, I gotta refute that.

I don't see how. I mean, sure it is no doubt hindsight to say it was a bad move but at the moment he was picked I was sitting in a room full of Texans fans including Vinny and there was a definite "WTF?" moment there. Nobody freaked out over it or leaped directly into denial but the "I hope the Texans know what they're doing" vibe was very much present that afternoon. Vinny was there and I know he recalls the 15-20 minutes of light hearted joking about taking Okoye. There was lots of joking about what his nickname would be but there was clear concern about picking a guy that young that high.

You didn't need a crystal ball to know that grabbing a 19 year old with the 10th pick was a bit of a leap of faith. We had just taken Mario Williams in 2006, Travis "The Slug" Johnson in 2005, and the unforgettable force that was Jason Babin in 2004. Three first round picks on the DL in three years and Smith opts to make it four in a row with Okoye? We didn't need linebackers? Patrick Willis went right after Okoye. We didn't need cornerbacks? Darrell Revis went four picks after that. Our running backs were set? We didn't need Marshawn Lynch who went at the 12th spot?

I knew all of those guys names on draft day in 2007. I'm sure you did too. It was a big reach and arguably less of a need than any of those other positions I just named. Lack of a credible running back, secondary, or linebacker beyond DeMeco Ryans are all perfectly valid needs that could have been addressed with safer choices than a 19 year old "Phenom" like Amobi who built his legend at Louisville in the Big East.

Once the team has picked it's not like they can throw him back in and pick again. Once the team has picked we all get on board and hope for the best. Hindsight is 20/20. The first round is full of gambles. Knowing when the Texans should gamble and when they should play it safe and make the obvious selection has been a problem from day one here through two GM's and a pair of coaches. This was another case of that happening. It made no sense for a number of reasons.

Water under the bridge though. He's here now and I sure hope this is the year we see the Amobi Okoye that we hoped to see.

I remember and can confirm this story. Keith from houstonprofootball.com/inthebullseye.com was in that same "fan war room' (it was more like a loft with a big screen, but hey we were comfy - nice house btw), and we were all talking about how this was a risky move. Most of us agreed that there is a very real chance that Ok0ye would not live up to his first contract and how this was a risky move for a team that could have used a player who was ready to step in immediately, like Darrelle Revis. I don't remember who Keith was hoping for but I was disappointed we didn't take Darrelle Revis. I guess I still am. :gun:

GuerillaBlack
08-30-2009, 10:52 PM
I think the Vikings should have taken Okoye. That way, we would have had a better chance at AP. ;)

TexansSeminole
08-30-2009, 10:55 PM
I remember and can confirm this story. Keith from houstonprofootball.com/inthebullseye.com was in that same "fan war room' (it was more like a loft with a big screen, but hey we were comfy - nice house btw), and we were all talking about how this was a risky move. Most of us agreed that there is a very real chance that Ok0ye would not live up to his first contract and how this was a risky move for a team that could have used a player who was ready to step in immediately, like Darrelle Revis. I don't remember who Keith was hoping for but I was disappointed we didn't take Darrelle Revis. I guess I still am. :gun:

I remember right before that draft I was hoping for Patrick Willis, Lawrence Timmons, or Reggie Nelson. The problem was that Willis was probably the only guy I wanted that was realistic, the other two were projected to go late first.

I'm not ready to give up on Amobi, but if he doesn't show up as a force this year I am ready to call him Rick Smith's first huge mistake.

GuerillaBlack
08-30-2009, 11:08 PM
Amobi did good his rookie season. He had injuries last season, did he not? I'll wait until after this season. I think he'll be fine, honestly.

ArlingtonTexan
08-30-2009, 11:18 PM
I remember and can confirm this story. Keith from houstonprofootball.com/inthebullseye.com was in that same room and we were all talking about how this was a risky move. Most of us agreed that there is a very real chance that Ok0ye would not live up to his first contract and how this was a risky move for a team that could have used a player who was ready to step in immediately, like Darrelle Revis. I don't remember who Keith was hoping for but I was disappointed we didn't take Darrelle Revis. I guess I still am. :gun:

I know in terms of perception, AO was not expected to reach Houston, so the pick while it had questions was not crazy. One thing I did was look up the 2007 DLmen and it is not that impressive of a bunch two years out. I will let people do their own research on the specific players, but 2007 was not the year to be draft DLmen. (BTW, this is why team should NOT just blindly draft for need, so times the best of a class at a position is not a quality prospect in terms of the NFL).

1 4 Gaines Adams DE Clemson Tampa Bay Buccaneers
1 8 Jamaal Anderson DE Arkansas Atlanta Falcons
1 10 Amobi Okoye DT Louisville Houston Texans
1 13 Adam Carriker NT Nebraska St. Louis Rams
1 16 Justin Harrell DT Tennessee Green Bay Packers
1 17 Jarvis Moss DE Florida Denver Broncos
2 33 Alan Branch DT Michigan Arizona Cardinals
2 54 Turk McBride DE Tennessee Kansas City Chiefs
2 56 Tim Crowder DE Texas Denver Broncos
2 57 Victor Abiamiri DE Notre Dame Philadelphia Eagles
2 58 Ikaika Alama-Francis DE Hawaii Detroit Lions
2 62 Dan Bazuin DE Central Michigan Chicago Bears
3 65 Quentin Moses DE Georgia Oakland Raiders
3 81 Jay Alford NT Penn State New York Giants
3 82 Tank Tyler DT North Carolina State Kansas City Chiefs
3 83 Charles Johnson DE Georgia Carolina Panthers
3 85 Brandon Mebane DT California Seattle Seahawks
3 97 Ray McDonald DE Florida San Francisco 49ers
3 98 Quinn Pitcock DT Ohio State Indianapolis Colts
4 102 Brian Robison DE Texas Minnesota Vikings
4 108 Paul Soliai DT Utah Miami Dolphins
4 113 Brian Smith DE Missouri Jacksonville Jaguars
4 120 Baraka Atkins DE Miami (Fla.) Seattle Seahawks
4 121 Marcus Thomas DT Florida Denver Broncos
4 127 Kareem Brown DT Miami (Fla.) New England Patriots
4 132 Ryan McBean DE Oklahoma State Pittsburgh Steelers
4 135 Joe Cohen DT Florida San Francisco 49ers
5 138 Jay Richardson DE Ohio State Oakland Raiders
5 141 Greg Peterson DT North Carolina Central Tampa Bay Buccaneers
5 152 Antonio Johnson DT Mississippi State Tennessee Titans
5 154 Clifton Ryan DT Michigan State St. Louis Rams
5 166 Derek Landri DT Notre Dame Jacksonville Jaguars
6 185 Trey Lewis DT Washburn Atlanta Falcons
6 187 Matt Toeaina DT Oregon Cincinnati Bengals
6 200 Melila Purcell DE Hawaii Cleveland Browns
6 204 Jacob Ford DE Central Arkansas Tennessee Titans
7 213 Chase Pittman DE Louisiana State Cleveland Browns
7 239 C.J. Ah You DE Oklahoma Buffalo Bills
7 242 Keyunta Dawson DT Texas Tech Indianapolis Colts
7 248 Keith Jackson DT Arkansas St. Louis Rams

Texecutioner
08-31-2009, 12:32 AM
I think this is a really really silly question to ask about a guy who has only played two seasons in which in his first season he was a ROTY candidate and the next year he played poorly. HOw could he be called a bust already??

beerlover
08-31-2009, 01:08 AM
Remember this was the swap with Atlanta for Schaub draft where the Texans originally picked 8th, Adrain Peterson went 7th to Minnesota. Atlanta took Jamaal Anderson, Ted Ginn went to Miami then the Texans selected Amobi Okoye. This reflects dissapointment in Travis Johnson more than anything & as we've seen this past draft a need to improve the defense. Of course Willis & Revis are clearly more impact players but the Texans are hoping Amobi develops into a premier DT which are rare to find indeed.

I think Amobi is a gamer. Excellent quickness. High motor. Penetrates the pocket, can be disruptive just needs to bring it consistantly. His main problem is he is outweighed significantly by oppossing guards. Does not mean he needs to add on a bunch of weight himself, just means he needs space to create seperation so he can attack the QB unabatted. Bottom line is if he continues to show improvement & doesn't get frustrated or discouraged he can still be a DL force, worth every bit of that 10th pick.

barrett
08-31-2009, 03:29 AM
His issues aren't "getting to the quarterback". He was very good at that in college and showed he's capable of it early in his rookie year. The DT's were not asked to shoot the gaps in Richard Smith's defensive scheme. In Okoye's 2nd season he played injured in a read-react defense. It didn't suit him on top of his injury. This season he is being asked to shoot the gaps again and he's doing it well. Watch him in passing situations tonight. I watched him specifically in the last two games and he's getting good penetration. He's being disruptive. That's what you want out of him. It's his issues against the run that are a problem.

That doesn't make him a "bust" per say. It makes him a situational player... that we drafted 10th.

"Can he became a good DT against the run? We're going to find out." (Kubi-voice)

Vinny
08-31-2009, 07:20 AM
His issues aren't "getting to the quarterback". He was very good at that in college and showed he's capable of it early in his rookie year. The DT's were not asked to shoot the gaps in Richard Smith's defensive scheme. In Okoye's 2nd season he played injured in a read-react defense. It didn't suit him on top of his injury. This season he is being asked to shoot the gaps again and he's doing it well. Watch him in passing situations tonight. I watched him specifically in the last two games and he's getting good penetration. He's being disruptive. That's what you want out of him. It's his issues against the run that are a problem.

That doesn't make him a "bust" per say. It makes him a situational player... that we drafted 10th.

"Can he became a good DT against the run? We're going to find out." (Kubi-voice) If you notice, he hasn't been getting to the QB much either, so he needs to pick up both parts of his game. You don't draft situational players in the top ten either. You pay top ten picks way too much money to be situational. That was one of the arguments about not taking Reggie Bush with a top pick. If Ok0ye keeps playing this way he is well on his way to becoming a bust. If he was a 5th round pick with a 5th round salary we say that "situational" isn't a bust. For a top ten pick? yeah

Honoring Earl 34
08-31-2009, 07:45 AM
Too young, too immature, too high, too soon, too little.......too late?

I'm not going to read all post so if someone's mentioned this , sorry .

Amobi , after his rookie season arranged that trip to Nigeria , which was a great humanitarian effort and you can't fault him for using his new found fame and fortune but maybe you leave that to a veteran . In the big picture his work in that area is much bigger than football but in our discussion it may mean that he's got to many irons on the fire . It's the same thing as tho old QB not being totally dedicated to football .

At the end of the day Amobi was an undersized DT that could have gone to Harvard . For this to work the guy has to play with the intensity of John Randle , a guy from Hearne Texas , then Texas A&I , who had to play 90 to nothing to make it .

steelbtexan
08-31-2009, 09:16 AM
I'm not going to read all post so if someone's mentioned this , sorry .

Amobi , after his rookie season arranged that trip to Nigeria , which was a great humanitarian effort and you can't fault him for using his new found fame and fortune but maybe you leave that to a veteran . In the big picture his work in that area is much bigger than football but in our discussion it may mean that he's got to many irons on the fire . It's the same thing as tho old QB not being totally dedicated to football .

At the end of the day Amobi was an undersized DT that could have gone to Harvard . For this to work the guy has to play with the intensity of John Randle , a guy from Hearne Texas , then Texas A&I , who had to play 90 to nothing to make it .

This explains why he didn't add weight in between his rookie/2nd year. Nor did he show any improvement in his game during this same time frame.

While his humanitarian efforts in his home country are to be applauded. I would not spend a top 10 pick on a young guy that football doesn't come 2nd in his life (his religion should come first IMO).

A top 10 pick should have a single mindesness that his main focus is on improving his craft. (MW, D.Brown, Cushing)

Then you have the other kind of top 10 pick (HWNSNBM) A guy who has all of the talent in the world but had had more important things in his life than his profession. So he didn't put the time in that was needed to reach his potential.

It remains to be seen if AO is a MW type guy or a HWNSNBM type guy.

Right now it looks like he may be the HWNSNBM type guy.

I hope I'm wrong but it's on AO to step up and prove me wrong.

Mr. White
08-31-2009, 09:53 AM
I voted "bust" because that's exactly what he's shown to this point. If he played for another team, there's no doubt that everyone would be piling on.

BTW, Haloti Ngata was drafted at 12 in 2006. Just sayin'.

Texan_Bill
08-31-2009, 09:57 AM
I voted to "wait". This is his 3rd season and we'll see if he "gets it". OTOH if there is a poll like this next off-season - he's a bust.



PS.... I don't want to hear anything about his age anymore.

4Texans
08-31-2009, 12:41 PM
I wouldn't call him a bust and we need to wait another year, but he never should have been drafted that high. Anyone drafted that high better be making an impact starting the first year. He did show signs of being very good that first year, but he wasn't consistent and he certainly hasn't shown us anything lately.

Chance_C
08-31-2009, 01:55 PM
5.5 sacks first nine games.....1 since or something like that per 610 this morning. That's damn close to busting.

HOU-TEX
08-31-2009, 02:04 PM
He might not be considered a bust at this point, but he sure does suck.

Runner
08-31-2009, 02:07 PM
In his first two years he has certainly not performed to near the level of his draft slot. If this trend continues and he is a bust, this Smithiak pick is every bit as bad as the previous regime's TJ pick.

blitz90
09-10-2009, 06:23 PM
From HT.com (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=5556)- "Sense of Urgency"

Amobi Okoye intends to have more surprises for Texans fans this season.

Two years ago, he surprisingly wasn't intimidated at being the youngest player in the NFL at 19. He grabbed 5.5 sacks and was considered in some voting for rookie of the year at defensive tackle.

Another surprise came last season when ankle and knee injuries helped to bring on a rather ordinary season, especially when set alongside his first-year statistics.

So, is he at the crossroads already in only his third NFL season? He's heard criticism that maybe the Texans made a mistake in drafting him No. 1. He's heard that he isn't helping the Texans get a better rush.

Is there another surprising turnaround?

"He looks better physically and he's in a better place mentally, so I think he'll come back stronger," defensive coordinator Frank Bush said. "He set the bar kind of high his rookie year. He was a young kid, came into the league at 19. He made some plays and we felt the sky was the limit.

"I think what happened last year, he was trying very hard to make things happen and things didn't work out. He got nicked up a little. But that's the league. That's what happens."

Okoye made the Texans look smart his rookie season. He had 32 tackles and a forced fumble. And what a first month of pro ball he had. Okoye had four sacks in three consecutive games and earned rookie of the month honors.

Then, gravity set in. The weight of his first pro season, much longer than he was accustomed to in college, took its toll. Okoye had 1.5 sacks the rest of the season. He was gassed.

He took three months off to recover and what followed in his second season was an unpleasant surprise for the Texans and for Okoye.

"Coming out of that rookie year, it's such a long year," Okoye said. "I'm sure Brian Cushing (current No. 1 pick) will tell you the same thing. It's already a long year for him. The whole year was long for me.

"After the season, you kind of want to take a break. So I took three months off and didn't do anything until I was forced to do something.

"I came to realize that wasn't a good idea."

Okoye decided for sure that he'd made a bad decision when he attended the Pro Bowl in February, as a spectator. He saw the work that had gone into the players making the honorary game. He wanted to be more than an observer.

"He's taken heed to the coaching," Bush said. "He's ambitious again. He did go to the Pro Bowl. I was there with him. He saw some guys and thought if he could compete at a certain level, he could be recognized with these guys.

"He got hungry. He got ambitious again. He's working his butt off. We'll see."

Okoye doesn't pretend he hasn't heard the criticism.

"I'd be lying if I said none of it bothers me," he said. "That would be a straight up lie. Regardless, they are talking about you and you know. Even though you avoid it, it's going to come to you some way or somehow. My way of dealing with it, I don't listen too much to it.

"What I care about is the criticism my coaches give me and the ones from my family and high school coaches. Those mean a lot to me. What they say is what I believe.

"The way I criticize myself, that's also a big deal to me. Those are the ones that go deep into the heart."

The Texans are pulling for Okoye to increase the learning curve.

"I just think we need to continue to see him be active," coach Gary Kubiak said. "Obviously, we would like to get more pass rush out of him than we got last year. I think he's much healthier than he was last year and he's got more help across the front than he's had.

"I just want to see him step up and make some plays. That's his game: quickness and coming off the ball."

Defensive line coach Bill Kollar wants to see that quickness work in the Texans' favor.

"He's got quickness, no doubt about it, but you've got to use it to your advantage, getting off and getting into the blocker before the guy has a chance to get you," Kollar said.

Are we there yet?

"We're not there at this time," Kollar said. "He needs to keep getting better and play full speed on every snap. We're working at it. It's not one of those things that's easy to end up doing. We're just hoping that he keeps getting better and gets to that point."

Okoye is hoping his body responds to the added workout load.

"I don't like to talk about injuries and make excuses," he said. "I'm still battling some of them, which are my knees. Some days they feel good and some days they are aching and you can't roll the way you want to roll."

Despite the drop off in sacks, Okoye doesn't see last season as a total loss.

"I had one sack, so statistically last year was a bad year, but play-wise I felt I did get better at recognition and knowing what to expect," he said. "Sometimes I probably analyzed too much and it slowed me down. Some of those habits are still lingering but with time those are going to go."

Bush expects it to be soon.

"More than anything this year, we are looking for consistency," Bush said. "We're expecting the guy to show up every Sunday and make the plays he's supposed to make. His special plays will come, but more than anything, we're looking for consistency.

"We don't want him to have an up-and-down game or an up-and-down season."

Bush, starting his first year as defensive coordinator, hopes to help Okoye use his quickness.

"We're going to do some things similar, but we're going to allow him to get off the ball and try to create some havoc," Bush said. "We want to do some things in the sense that not just allow him to have to hunker down inside all the time but allow him to get off and give him some movement."

Okoye needs to have a good season for himself and for the team.

"My expectations are that I need to have a good year for me to be happy," Okoye said. "Happiness for me is football. I'm married to the pigskin. When it's not going the way I want it to be, I won't be happy."

Kollar has the secret to a happy pigskin marriage.

"I tell him, 'The only way you can get people off of you is by doing it on the field. That's what it comes down to. As soon as you start playing like everyone expects you to play, they are going to stop getting on you and start saying what a good player you are.'

"Right now it's a work in progress and we're just trying to get better."


Not sure how i feel about some of the things I bolded in the article. His play has been obviously inconsistent, but his motivation and passion for the game has been inconsistent as well. Thats not good.
We'll see once the season starts but he's definitely on the hot seat.

Lucky
09-10-2009, 06:44 PM
He took three months off to recover and what followed in his second season was an unpleasant surprise for the Texans and for Okoye.

"Coming out of that rookie year, it's such a long year," Okoye said. "I'm sure Brian Cushing (current No. 1 pick) will tell you the same thing. It's already a long year for him. The whole year was long for me.

"After the season, you kind of want to take a break. So I took three months off and didn't do anything until I was forced to do something.

"I came to realize that wasn't a good idea."How did a guy who took 3 months off earn Gary Kubiak's "most improved player (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4374)" praise during the 2008 OTAs?

Okoye wins most improved. Defensive tackle Amobi Okoyehttp://assets.houstontexans.com/images/relatedicon.gif (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4374#) is the first to say that he hit the rookie wall last season. He recorded four sacks in the first five games and finished the season with 5.5 sacks and 23 tackles.

During OTAs, Okoye played like he could run through walls. The second-year pro worked on his speed and strength during the offseason and proved to be much faster off the ball at the line of scrimmage.

The Texans will call on Okoye next season to be a run stopper and pass rusher, and the defensive tackle looked more comfortable in both roles.

"I want to knock on wood, but in all honesty, this camp, I think he's the most improved player," Kubiak said. "He's a pretty dang good player to begin with, but what you saw take place here over the course of the last three weeks, you saw a guy go from still having some of his rookie habits, they went away in one week and we haven't noticed them in the last two.

"It tells me he's growing up. He's becoming better. He's becoming a pro. And if that happens, we're going to be a better football team. I've been very impressed with the player he's become through OTAs."

Kubiak said Okoye's progress between year one and year two of his NFL career was similar to that of Williams.

"But the thing that is very comparable right away is the maturity, I guess I should say, and how he's handling himself right now," Kubiak said. "There's not a lot of distractions going on. He's just playing ball and he's got his mind in the right place, and I think that those are good things."
Last year, the Texans told us that Okoye had worked on his speed and strength in the offseason, when in fact he had done zilch. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing what the guy has or hasn't done. Just show up on Sunday and every week after that. Until that happens, Amobi gets to wear the bust label.

Thorn
09-10-2009, 06:49 PM
How did a guy who took 3 months off earn Gary Kubiak's "most improved player (http://www.houstontexans.com/news/Story.asp?story_id=4374)" praise during the 2008 OTAs?

Last year, the Texans told us that Okoye had worked on his speed and strength in the offseason, when in fact he had done zilch. Frankly, I'm tired of hearing what the guy has or hasn't done. Just show up on Sunday and every week after that. Until that happens, Amobi gets to wear the bust label.

Because he was so young coming in, I'll give him one more year before I label him a bust. That doesn't excuse his poor play as a 1st round pick, it's just I'm going to cut him some slack for this one more season. If he doesn't pick up his game this year, he could end up like TJ and get traded for peanuts. I guess we'll find out a lot this coming Sunday.

Lucky
09-10-2009, 06:57 PM
Because he was so young coming in, I'll give him one more year before I label him a bust.
Why? Okoye was sold as a hard worker who was very mature for his age. The truth has been the opposite. And Okoye isn't the only one to get the bust label. It was Smith and Kubiak who busted the pick. Okoye is their responsibility. As great as the Texans 2006 draft was, the 2007 draft looks very poor to this point.

TexansFanatic
09-10-2009, 07:25 PM
As great as the Texans 2006 draft was, the 2007 draft looks very poor to this point.

Funny, I was just thinking that same thing.

A friend of mine was trying to defend Charley Casserly recently (for some unknown reason) and I told him to go back and look at those first four drafts and tell me what was good about them.

Well, I ended up looking back at all our drafts myself and I was saddened to see how poor the 2007 draft is beginning to look from today's perspective.

Thorn
09-10-2009, 07:29 PM
Why? Okoye was sold as a hard worker who was very mature for his age. The truth has been the opposite. And Okoye isn't the only one to get the bust label. It was Smith and Kubiak who busted the pick. Okoye is their responsibility. As great as the Texans 2006 draft was, the 2007 draft looks very poor to this point.


I donít think anyone would argue that he hasnít been a disappointment, because he has. Iím just not willing to give up on him quite yet.

CloakNNNdagger
09-10-2009, 07:39 PM
When you stop and think about it, how many of our picks that didn't didn't develop by the end of the 2nd year, ever developed to their expected potential?

D-Frank
09-10-2009, 07:41 PM
I will wait till after the season

ObsiWan
09-10-2009, 07:43 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1235180&postcount=9

And BTW, purposely butchering a player's name in order to make some kind of statement is lame, classless, and disrespectful, in my opinion.

:soapbox:

well... unless it's an opposing player
:D

steelbtexan
09-10-2009, 08:18 PM
Why? Okoye was sold as a hard worker who was very mature for his age. The truth has been the opposite. And Okoye isn't the only one to get the bust label. It was Smith and Kubiak who busted the pick. Okoye is their responsibility. As great as the Texans 2006 draft was, the 2007 draft looks very poor to this point.

Agreed

It's good to see AO is better mentally.

He's ambitious now?

As if millions of dollars and the rest of his teammates depending on him wasn't enough to make him ambitious.

To make matters worse a 22 year old is already saying his knees wont let him go all out all of the time. GREAT

Sounds like it's going to be another season of excuses from AO.

Like Kollar said all AO has to do is prove me wrong.

Until he proves me wrong color me jaded.

thunderkyss
09-10-2009, 08:21 PM
...the 2007 draft looks very poor to this point.

Ouch......

Okoye
Jacoby
Bennett
Harrison
Frye
Studdard
Diles

steelbtexan
09-10-2009, 08:27 PM
When you stop and think about it, how many of our picks that didn't didn't develop by the end of the 2nd year, ever developed to their expected potential?

But I thought Smithiak could do no wrong in the war room.

LOL

After the CC regime Smithiak just had to be average in the war room to look like geniuses.

Overall I believe Smithiak have done a good job with the draft but 2007 was very poor. Okoye is exhibit no.1

If Smithiak had done a good job in 2007 this team would be a force to be reckoned with this year instead of hoping to make the playoffs.

Runner
09-10-2009, 09:44 PM
But I thought Smithiak could do no wrong in the war room.

LOL



That's kind of an "emperor has no clothes" kind of statement.

There are reasons they are stuck on 8-8. The Texans aren't "great" at everything.

DocBar
09-10-2009, 10:42 PM
I guess '07 looks bad, especially in light of a couple of exceptional ones, but it's a little early to say the whole draft class is a bust. Unfortunately, the Texans have been short on talent and even shorter in depth and that means even average drafts are unaffordable. We need impact players able to contribute as rookies or 2nd year players more than most teams. That really sux for team with as knowledgeable fans as the Texans have, cuz we can spot it quickly and hold the FO accountable in the court of public opinion..

RipTraxx
09-10-2009, 10:45 PM
Someone had mentioned in reference to TJ that 1st rd DTs bust more then any other position.....

steelbtexan
09-10-2009, 11:16 PM
I guess '07 looks bad, especially in light of a couple of exceptional ones, but it's a little early to say the whole draft class is a bust. Unfortunately, the Texans have been short on talent and even shorter in depth and that means even average drafts are unaffordable. We need impact players able to contribute as rookies or 2nd year players more than most teams. That really sux for team with as knowledgeable fans as the Texans have, cuz we can spot it quickly and hold the FO accountable in the court of public opinion..

Spot On

Smithiak couldn't afford to take chances on project players like Okoye and Jones because of the lack of talent on the team when Kubes was hired.

They took the gamble on project players and it's starting to look like those project players may cause Smithiak their jobs unless a winning/playoff season happens this year. IMO

Lucky
09-10-2009, 11:34 PM
Ouch......

Okoye
Jacoby
Bennett
Harrison
Frye
Studdard
Diles
I may have overstated my point. There are some serviceable players here. And it's not as if 2007 was a deep draft class.

I'm mainly bothered by the organization's characterization as Okoye being a young overachiever, when he has in fact been immature and lazy. We saw enough of these misleading portrayals with the previous administration.

And Thorn and others are right in that Okoye could turn his career around. He has talent. But, Travis Johnson could also become a good player. He just won't be a Texan if that happens. I just can't help but feel that if Okoye had played for Jeff Fisher or Tony Dungy, he would be a better player.

steelbtexan
09-10-2009, 11:56 PM
(Quoted) truth

eriadoc
09-11-2009, 12:02 AM
Ouch......

Okoye
Jacoby
Bennett
Harrison
Frye
Studdard
Diles

You forgot the second half of Matt Schaub, which makes it even worse or better, depending.

If Bennett has a good year again this year, that will make us forget his sophomore slump. If Jacoby has a good year finally, we'll all figure he's finally developing. Diles has outperformed his draft spot, and Studdard has performed up to his draft spot. Those + Schaub make the draft pretty good, not great. Okoye has to do something to make that draft very good/great.

eriadoc
09-11-2009, 12:05 AM
I may have overstated my point. There are some serviceable players here. And it's not as if 2007 was a deep draft class.

I'm mainly bothered by the organization's characterization as Okoye being a young overachiever, when he has in fact been immature and lazy. We saw enough of these misleading portrayals with the previous administration.

And Thorn and others are right in that Okoye could turn his career around. He has talent. But, Travis Johnson could also become a good player. He just won't be a Texan if that happens. I just can't help but feel that if Okoye had played for Jeff Fisher or Tony Dungy, he would be a better player.

Maybe, but it's doubtful that guys like Schaub would be as good as he is (when healthy). Guys like David Anderson wouldn't be key contributors. Some coaches are better on defense, some are better on offense. To his credit (and to this point, demise), Kubiak has just tried to hire defensive minds to take that part of the job.

Runner
09-11-2009, 12:08 AM
I just can't help but feel that if Okoye had played for Jeff Fisher or Tony Dungy, he would be a better player.

I've always thought that the team that selects an average and lower quality NFL player has as much impact on that player's career as the player himself. Not always, but in many cases. The better players would be good anywhere in most cases.

steelbtexan
09-11-2009, 12:18 AM
Kubes has hired 2 DC's with little to no experience.

Lets hope Bushes hiring works better than the Dick Smith hiring.

Kubes downfall will be that he chose to hirie from within instead of stepping outside his comfort zone and hiring an experienced DC that he didn't have a past with.

Lets hope the Texans make the playoffs and all of this is a moot point.

DocBar
09-11-2009, 01:19 AM
I may have overstated my point. There are some serviceable players here. And it's not as if 2007 was a deep draft class.

I'm mainly bothered by the organization's characterization as Okoye being a young overachiever, when he has in fact been immature and lazy. We saw enough of these misleading portrayals with the previous administration.

And Thorn and others are right in that Okoye could turn his career around. He has talent. But, Travis Johnson could also become a good player. He just won't be a Texan if that happens. I just can't help but feel that if Okoye had played for Jeff Fisher or Tony Dungy, he would be a better player.

I see your point on this and have wondered what goes on in coaches meetings and unit meetings. Does Kubes have much to say in D meetings or does he let his D coaches run their own little fiefdom? If it's the latter, he would be better served with a strong DC with a proven track record. I would say he's job scared, but he did hire Rhodes, who has HC experience. It's telling that teams like NE and Steelers go through little, if any, rebuilding while others are in a constant state of rebuilding. Similarly, those teams seldom find theirselves in cap hell, let big names go and still have good to great teams. Common themes appear to be excellent owners, talented GMs and strong HC's with solid backing from the FO. We have most of those criteria in place with my biggest question at strong HC. Kubes is growing into the job nicely, but he seems loyal to a fault and worried he might step on someones toes or something.

eriadoc
09-11-2009, 05:49 AM
Kubes has hired 2 DC's with little to no experience.

True, but he's also hired defensive coaches around those DCs that have experience. Ray Rhodes has been here for a few years now, for instance.

Besides, there have been enough late round defensive picks that have done pretty well for themselves here (Diles, Bennett, Deljuan, Bulman ... ). I don't get the impression that coaching these guys up is the problem .... yet.

Blake
09-11-2009, 10:07 AM
I think Amobi will be head and shoulders above his play from last season. His offseason conditioning should get him back on track. I think he is still learning how to carrie himself year round as an NFL player. I will see what happens this year before I label the lad.

Maddict5
09-11-2009, 10:34 AM
id be alot more confident about amobi this year if those stories about his knee still not being right werent swirling around

Goatcheese
09-11-2009, 10:36 AM
My concern with Okoye is his knees. The boy is too young to have these kind of lasting problems with his joints. Some people, even athletes, just weren't meant to carry around that kind of weight on their legs. I'm starting to worry that Okoye is one of those guys.

CloakNNNdagger
09-11-2009, 11:56 AM
My concern with Okoye is his knees. The boy is too young to have these kind of lasting problems with his joints. Some people, even athletes, just weren't meant to carry around that kind of weight on their legs. I'm starting to worry that Okoye is one of those guys.

Predictable, without feeling the need to maintain proper conditioning, which can be the best prophylaxis (note: not prophyllactic) to avoid disease (note: arthritis, not STD) and injury.

Mr. White
09-11-2009, 12:13 PM
To his credit (and to this point, demise), Kubiak has just tried to hire defensive minds to take that part of the job.

There's really not any evidence of that.

If that were his philosophy, he would have hired Jim Bates his first year on the job...maybe would have interviewed Gregg Williams or any other qualified DC candidate last offseason.

I'm of the mind that he wants somebody with no DC experience so he can exert more control over the defense.

The Pencil Neck
09-11-2009, 12:17 PM
There's really not any evidence of that.

If that were his philosophy, he would have hired Jim Bates his first year on the job...maybe would have interviewed Gregg Williams or any other qualified DC candidate last offseason.

I'm of the mind that he wants somebody with no DC experience so he can exert more control over the defense.

I don't know if it's about control. It could be.

I just read it as Kubiak wants guys he knows and feels comfortable with, guys he feels he can work with. I think he also wants to give some guys a shot at the big time.

Goldensilence
09-11-2009, 01:55 PM
I voted one more year before I call him a real bust. I'm hoping with the more aggressive defense Bush has shown and with a guy who has the ability to get the most out of his DL, we'll see something.

I'm just really amazed looking at our 2007 draft, the lack of consistency overall. The top 3 picks for the draft showed flashes their first year and have kind of dropped off the map since. I'm still a bit puzzled by the release of Brandon Frye vs keeping Studdard.

Marcus
09-11-2009, 02:47 PM
I just read it as Kubiak wants guys he knows and feels comfortable with, guys he feels he can work with.

I don't think it's anything other than just that.

steelbtexan
09-11-2009, 03:53 PM
I don't think it's anything other than just that.

Agreed

But sometimes you have got to step outside your comfort level hiring people to get the best results.

Maddict5
09-11-2009, 03:57 PM
If that were his philosophy, he would have hired Jim Bates his first year on the job...maybe would have interviewed Gregg Williams or any other qualified DC candidate last offseason.


what exactly was it about gregg williams work with last yrs jags D that shouldve had us rushing out to sign him up?

Mr. White
09-11-2009, 05:07 PM
what exactly was it about gregg williams work with last yrs jags D that shouldve had us rushing out to sign him up?

What his work taking a team to the Super Bowl and numerous others to the playoffs shouldn't have had us rushing out to sign him up?

Does one crappy season with weak personnel make for a career nowadays?

BTW, Gregg Williams wasn't the only DC out there last off-season that didn't even get an interview here. Jerry Gray, Bob Slowik, Sean McDermott and Mike Nolan and a bunch of 3-4 coaches also never even got an interview.

Double Barrel
09-11-2009, 05:44 PM
Then, gravity set in. The weight of his first pro season, much longer than he was accustomed to in college, took its toll. Okoye had 1.5 sacks the rest of the season. He was gassed.

He took three months off to recover and what followed in his second season was an unpleasant surprise for the Texans and for Okoye.

That's pathetic. After watching a lot of NFL Films about the great players all off-season, there is one thing that they undoubtedly ALL have in common: PASSION.

I'm not a Michael Irvin fan, but I have tremendous respect for the guy after seeing the documentary "Road to Canton" on him. Nobody had to motivate that guy because he has an inner flame that refuses to quit and a drive that pushes him beyond imagined limits.

And then we see paycheck-suckers like our boy Okoye here, who takes three months off because he was gassed?! How the eff does he think he'll be better conditioned for his second season by sitting on his ass?!!

To be taken so high, this guy should have a chip on his shoulder and something to prove. The above article reveals to me that he's just not that kind of player, and as far as I'm concerned, as a first round pick he's a bust until proven otherwise, IMHO.

Spot On

Smithiak couldn't afford to take chances on project players like Okoye and Jones because of the lack of talent on the team when Kubes was hired.

They took the gamble on project players and it's starting to look like those project players may cause Smithiak their jobs unless a winning/playoff season happens this year. IMO

No doubt. Established teams like the Steelers and Patriots have the depth and success to pick 'project players' and give them a few years to develop.

We are obviously not one of those teams. Picking a 19 year old kid to play in this league is about as project as you can get, regardless of what the team's almighty and self-righteous defenders have to say about it.

I may have overstated my point. There are some serviceable players here. And it's not as if 2007 was a deep draft class.

I'm mainly bothered by the organization's characterization as Okoye being a young overachiever, when he has in fact been immature and lazy. We saw enough of these misleading portrayals with the previous administration.

And Thorn and others are right in that Okoye could turn his career around. He has talent. But, Travis Johnson could also become a good player. He just won't be a Texan if that happens. I just can't help but feel that if Okoye had played for Jeff Fisher or Tony Dungy, he would be a better player.

And obviously the big difference is that they would not have wasted a first round pick on the guy. They pick project players in the later rounds and develop up, not the other way around.

The jury might still be out, but this jurist has already made up his mind unless new evidence is submitted to prove otherwise. I'll be glad to say that I was wrong, because that means he made an impact for our team.

edo783
09-11-2009, 09:37 PM
(note: arthritis, not STD) and injury.

Are we talking Mike Vick here?:texflag:

notafaker
09-12-2009, 06:24 AM
We expect too much from a kid that we drafted at 19 years old. He's only 21 now still developing his body you still have to be patient.

Lucky
09-12-2009, 06:44 AM
We expect too much from a kid that we drafted at 19 years old. He's only 21 now...
Okoye actually turned 22 in June. And expectations for players selected 10th overall are always high. Going into his 3rd season, results should be expected, if not demanded.

Double Barrel
09-12-2009, 01:12 PM
We expect too much from a kid that we drafted at 19 years old. He's only 21 now still developing his body you still have to be patient.

No offense, but this ain't Pop Warner. He's a professional football player making multi-millions. Expectations should be...well, expected.

GuerillaBlack
09-12-2009, 01:16 PM
I may have overstated my point. There are some serviceable players here. And it's not as if 2007 was a deep draft class.

I'm mainly bothered by the organization's characterization as Okoye being a young overachiever, when he has in fact been immature and lazy. We saw enough of these misleading portrayals with the previous administration.

And Thorn and others are right in that Okoye could turn his career around. He has talent. But, Travis Johnson could also become a good player. He just won't be a Texan if that happens. I just can't help but feel that if Okoye had played for Jeff Fisher or Tony Dungy, he would be a better player.

Agreed. I like Kubiak, but he just doesn't have "it", whatever it is, that brings out the absolute best in players (like those coaches do). At least in my opinion.

TheRealJoker
09-12-2009, 01:21 PM
The problem with Amobi is that we passed on two premier players at their respective positions (Patrick Willis and Darelle Revis) to take a project player who might never become a premier player at DT and if he does it will likely be after he plays through his rookie contract.

beerlover
09-12-2009, 02:05 PM
The problem with Amobi is that we passed on two premier players at their respective positions (Patrick Willis and Darelle Revis) to take a project player who might never become a premier player at DT and if he does it will likely be after he plays through his rookie contract.

that's a scouting issue not Amobi Okoye's :barman:

Texans rarely seem to take bpa instead draft for need.

breaking down his development or lack there of so far he's behind on creating any type of signature pass rush move, once shedding blocker his burst or angle still seems a bit off. if he does possess the natural instincts expected both his footwork & use of hands needs to get better, just check out Connor Barwin attacking linemen :kingkong: he needs to impress with more sense of urgency.

my hope is - he cuts off angles for Sanchez who likes to throw on the run outside pocket & makes a couple big plays early to jump start his season :whip:

Vinny
09-12-2009, 05:18 PM
that's a scouting issue not Amobi Okoye's :barman:

Texans rarely seem to take bpa instead draft for need.

breaking down his development or lack there of so far he's behind on creating any type of signature pass rush move, once shedding blocker his burst or angle still seems a bit off. if he does possess the natural instincts expected both his footwork & use of hands needs to get better, just check out Connor Barwin attacking linemen :kingkong: he needs to impress with more sense of urgency.

my hope is - he cuts off angles for Sanchez who likes to throw on the run outside pocket & makes a couple big plays early to jump start his season :whip:I have a shorter assessment...he gets pushed around alot.

On a related note, any of you guys watch AFC Matchup on the NFL network? The Jets have top caliber Guard play with All everything Fanica and friggin' Brandon Moore is just a beast. They had a segment of film where he just tosses Haloti Ngata to the turf like old underwear. Stopping the run and keeping Sanchez in third and longs will be the key to this game.

Silver Oak
09-12-2009, 05:24 PM
both Fisher and Dungy have not always been winners. both experienced terrible seasons, whereas Kubiak has not as HC...as long as we're comparing Kubes to those two I thought I would throw that in there.

Lucky
09-12-2009, 07:09 PM
both Fisher and Dungy have not always been winners. both experienced terrible seasons, whereas Kubiak has not as HC...as long as we're comparing Kubes to those two I thought I would throw that in there.
Dungy had one losing season (6-10 in his 1st season), one 8-8 season (his 3rd), and 11 winning seasons as a head coach. 11 of 13 with a career winning % of 66.8%.

Fisher has had 4 losing records in 14 full seasons as a head coach. He also had 4 seasons with a breakeven record of 8-8. But, Fisher has coached 6 teams to a winning record and playoff berths.

Dungy vs Kubiak? 5-1
Fisher vs Kubiak? 5-1

Thought I'd throw that out there.

Vinny
09-12-2009, 09:34 PM
I have a shorter assessment...he gets pushed around alot.

On a related note, any of you guys watch AFC Matchup on the NFL network? The Jets have top caliber Guard play with All everything Fanica and friggin' Brandon Moore is just a beast. They had a segment of film where he just tosses Haloti Ngata to the turf like old underwear. Stopping the run and keeping Sanchez in third and longs will be the key to this game.
found the clip with Moore destroying Ngata.

http://www.nfl.com/videos/nfl-kickoff/09000d5d81287cca/WK-1-Playbook-Jets-vs-Texans

eriadoc
09-12-2009, 09:43 PM
Agreed. I like Kubiak, but he just doesn't have "it", whatever it is, that brings out the absolute best in players (like those coaches do). At least in my opinion.

Who on offense would you say fits that bill? I think he brings out the best in offensive players. So he has "it", just on offense.

The truth is, "it" is one thing - player performance. That can be determined by game planning and preparation, but there's an awful lot up to the player as well.

Something else to think about - Tony Dungy had "it" in TB, at least on defense. Then he went to IND and had no defense. Eventually, he won a SB with the worst run defense in recent memory (at least for the regular season). So did/does Dungy have "it"? Does/did Jon Gruden? He had a hell of an offense in Oakland, but won in TB with defense. Hmmm ....

TexansFanatic
09-12-2009, 09:47 PM
Dungy had one losing season (6-10 in his 1st season), one 8-8 season (his 3rd), and 11 winning seasons as a head coach. 11 of 13 with a career winning % of 66.8%.

Fisher has had 4 losing records in 14 full seasons as a head coach. He also had 4 seasons with a breakeven record of 8-8. But, Fisher has coached 6 teams to a winning record and playoff berths.

Dungy vs Kubiak? 5-1
Fisher vs Kubiak? 5-1

Thought I'd throw that out there.

I'm not going to compare Kubiak to Dungy, but Fisher was nothing special his first 4.375 seasons.

1994: 1 and 5
1995: 7 and 9
1996: 8 and 8
1997: 8 and 8
1998: 8 and 8

It really is a miracle Bud let Fisher continue after all that. Completely against type.

Vinny
09-12-2009, 09:58 PM
I'm not going to compare Kubiak to Dungy, but Fisher was nothing special his first 4.375 seasons.

1994: 1 and 5
1995: 7 and 9
1996: 8 and 8
1997: 8 and 8
1998: 8 and 8

It really is a miracle Bud let Fisher continue after all that. Completely against type.
those were the transition to Nashville years. They played at 3 "home" stadiums in 3 years in that stretch. If you count the last year in Houston they played in 4 home stadiums in 4 consecutive years. It's kinda amazing he held it together that well imo.

TexansFanatic
09-12-2009, 10:20 PM
those were the transition to Nashville years. They played at 3 "home" stadiums in 3 years in that stretch. If you count the last year in Houston they played in 4 home stadiums in 4 consecutive years. It's kinda amazing he held it together that well imo.

Fair enough. (I was hoping nobody would remember that.) :shades:

But let's not forget Kubiak had to deal with Ike last year.....right?

GNTLEWOLF
09-12-2009, 10:58 PM
The real question, whether it is Okoye or Kubiak, is how many more years do we find excuses to give mediocrity a pass, and when do we start making them accountable?

eriadoc
09-12-2009, 11:03 PM
The real question, whether it is Okoye or Kubiak, is how many more years do we find excuses to give mediocrity a pass, and when do we start making them accountable?

Kubiak will be accountable before Ok0ye will be.

beerlover
09-12-2009, 11:06 PM
The real question, whether it is Okoye or Kubiak, is how many more years do we find excuses to give mediocrity a pass, and when do we start making them accountable?

accountability is exercised with a contract extension, trade or flat out cut/firing. no player or coach is immune from mediocrity time line vaires but usually by end of first contract (except in David Carr's situation) so Okoye has this year, maybe next to exhibit favorable results.

steelbtexan
09-12-2009, 11:17 PM
The real question, whether it is Okoye or Kubiak, is how many more years do we find excuses to give mediocrity a pass, and when do we start making them accountable?

You are correct sir.