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Second Honeymoon
08-23-2009, 06:18 PM
Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)

Texecutioner
08-23-2009, 06:23 PM
I never liked the hiring myself, but come on HOneymoon, we still have to wait until the season. This thread really is meaningless, because you know good and well that he isn't going to be fired in pre season and even if they're terrible all season he probably still won't be fired in the middle of the season either. If our defense doesn't do anything this season and isn't improved or gets worse, to me it will be more on Kubiak than it will be on Bush since it was Kubiak's hiring knowing what was at stake here.

Lets wait until the season though man.

ArlingtonTexan
08-23-2009, 06:23 PM
I wish this thread was actually tongue in cheek.

Wolf
08-23-2009, 06:29 PM
I think that is a record on the fire XXXXX thread

Brisco_County
08-23-2009, 06:32 PM
I think we've found this week's pessimism boundary.

Specnatz
08-23-2009, 06:33 PM
Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)

How is your boy VY doing?

MojoMan
08-23-2009, 06:34 PM
Oh, brother.

It is two games into the preseason, and already the numskullery has begun.

Fire the coach! Fire the coach!

You have got to be kidding me.

Hervoyel
08-23-2009, 06:35 PM
I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving a noob a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.

Texecutioner
08-23-2009, 06:35 PM
I think that is a record on the fire XXXXX thread

Are you surprised at who started the thread about it??

alphajoker
08-23-2009, 06:36 PM
:spit: at this thread - it's too early man, come on.

PapaL
08-23-2009, 06:38 PM
No soap, no care.

Until I see a Fire "X" soap, the thread has no merit.

eriadoc
08-23-2009, 06:39 PM
OK, I'll try to take this thread in a serious direction.

IF the defense performs like it did (specifically, the individual players, not the scheme), who do you blame? The scheme is not to blame (yet), since there really was nothing shown last night. Kubiak doesn't really touch the defense, near as we can tell. Instead, he hires as many competent minds as he can find. I believe we probably have more defensive coaches than most teams, yet they can't seem to put this thing together. Is it the players? Are the coaches not getting the best out of them? It's easy to say Kubiak is responsible, because as the head coach he is, but that doesn't mean the defensive problems are his doing. He may go down for them, but seriously, someone has to be able to figure something out with this group, don't they?

All this hinges upon an "if", but it's something to think about.

Wolf
08-23-2009, 06:40 PM
I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving him a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.

true, on the poll thread, I put a vote for "kinda" mainly because of what you are stating.. I think we have some of the horses needed to become a very good defense but we have that unknown variable with the coaching .. we don't know how the system was going to work (like you said)

If our offense got shut out against the saints , we wouldn't worry , because we have seen what it can do (at least I wouldn't worry ) (red zone offense is still scaring me though as far as FG's instead of TD's)

Texecutioner
08-23-2009, 06:41 PM
I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving him a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.

Yes, I agree with most of this and people will not be wrong for going nuts either.

I never liked the Bush hiring in the first place at all. But many people said at the time that if it doesn't work out and things don't turn around it will be a huge dent on Kubiak's resume, since Kubes hired his boy instead of going out and getting a guy with a much better proven track record at running a defense. Kubes knew that improving the defense was going to be a major importance at making that next step this season, and if he hired a guy that doesn't have a much better and improved defense with all of the players we've brought in as well, then that's going to be a lot of criticism on Kubiak even more than it will be on Bush.

Wolf
08-23-2009, 06:41 PM
No soap, no care.

Until I see a Fire "X" soap, the thread has no merit.

I figure SH is lathering up the soap right now
:shower:

Texecutioner
08-23-2009, 06:42 PM
I figure SH is lathering up the soap right now
:shower:

:doot: Funny, funny, funny.

Hervoyel
08-23-2009, 06:50 PM
It will be Kubiak's neck if this flops and the fallout will define Kubiak for years if this doesn't work out. See, I feel like if Frank Bush fails then ultimately it means the Kubiak has failed and that it won't be a case of "Well, we need a new DC because Frank didn't cut it". It will be a case of "Well, Gary has our offense working great but he doesn't know squat about defenses and we aren't going anywhere without one".

At that point Bob McNair has a choice and that choice is either push a "name" DC on Kubiak whether he agrees or not or replace Kubiak entirely. I really think that's a slim possibility post 2009 (if things go that way with no improvement) and a strong probability post 2010 (again if nothing changes).

Frank Bush is all Gary Kubiak's hire. I want our defense to work more than I want anything else as far as the Texans are concerned right now. That's issue #1 for me.

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 06:55 PM
I figure SH is lathering up the soap right now
:shower:

Hey Wolf, its only one preseason game and your already having to bust out the Sunny happy avatar? Its going to be a long week isn't it.

And on a side note (and not toward you Wolf) the Colts look bad every preseason and look like they lose something yet come back when the games count and dominate. Just sayin.

eriadoc
08-23-2009, 06:56 PM
Yes, I agree with most of this and people will not be wrong for going nuts either.

....

Kubes knew that improving the defense was going to be a major importance at making that next step this season, and if he hired a guy that doesn't have a much better and improved defense with all of the players we've brought in as well, then that's going to be a lot of criticism on Kubiak even more than it will be on Bush.

It will be Kubiak's neck if this flops and the fallout will define Kubiak for years if this doesn't work out. See, I feel like if Frank Bush fails then ultimately it means the Kubiak has failed and that it won't be a case of "Well, we need a new DC because Frank didn't cut it". It will be a case of "Well, Gary has our offense working great but he doesn't know squat about defenses and we aren't going anywhere without one".

I agree with these takes. Kubiak's ass is on the line for this, and it should be. However, that really doesn't answer the question of why none of these coaches can get anything from these guys. We have Ray Rhodes, Frank Bush, Bill Kollar, etc., etc ..... someone ought to be able to get something out of these guys. I don't really have a problem with Kubiak turning the defense over to the DC, with the understanding that the buck stops at him whether he likes it or not, but at some point, I have to ask how a collection of coaches can be so bad, especially when I just see payers failing at the individual level.

If we don't control the LOS, we won't win consistently. On defense, who do we have that can control his part of the LOS? Mario. That's it. So why are all these other scrubs not doing well? Is it mental, as in coaching? Is it physical (Okoye)? Are they just not good enough? WTH?

Wolf
08-23-2009, 06:56 PM
I hope the defense kicks butt this season and maybe I can get someone to make a avatar ...one that would show Mario holding up the sky instead of Atlas

maybe that will give some comfort to the sky is falling crowd

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/atlas.jpg


http://assets.houstontexans.com/assets/gameday/SD-Williams-800.jpg

forcefollow
08-23-2009, 06:56 PM
Wow preseason game two and already this thread.

Well while your at it here are some other threads that are in order.

Fire Barak Obama
Fire Hillary Clinton
Fire Rick Perry
Fire Bill Gates (Vista is really bad)
Fire the chairman of the joint chiefs.

LOL.... Come on guys its way too soon to call for the mans head.

Wolf
08-23-2009, 06:57 PM
Hey Wolf, its only one preseason game and your already having to bust out the Sunny happy avatar? Its going to be a long week isn't it.

And on a side note (and not toward you Wolf) the Colts look bad every preseason and look like they lose something yet come back when the games count and dominate. Just sayin.

a lot of doom and gloom posts the past day and a half and so I had to make adjustments LOL

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 07:01 PM
a lot of doom and gloom posts the past day and a half and so I had to make adjustments LOL

Well, it may be preseason for the players but its nice to see the Texan fans in mid season form.

SteveSlaton20
08-23-2009, 07:01 PM
jesus, ready?

Wolf
08-23-2009, 07:02 PM
Well, it may be preseason for the players but its nice to see the Texan fans in mid season form.

very true!

Ckw
08-23-2009, 07:04 PM
Typical SH post. Nothing to see here.:panic:

Now you see me.

:backsout:

Now you don't.

GP
08-23-2009, 07:25 PM
LOL.

Wow.

:fortune:

Norg
08-23-2009, 07:27 PM
http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/images/smilies/backout.gif

False Start
08-23-2009, 07:38 PM
I was expecting a punchline.........

Specnatz
08-23-2009, 07:45 PM
I was expecting a punchline.........

The punchline is the thread starter.

Honoring Earl 34
08-23-2009, 07:57 PM
Just wait till TJ gets back .... problem solved . :sumo:

NitroGSXR
08-23-2009, 08:06 PM
Wow preseason game two and already this thread.

Well while your at it here are some other threads that are in order.

Fire Barak Obama
Fire Hillary Clinton
Fire Rick Perry
Fire Bill Gates (Vista is really bad)
Fire the chairman of the joint chiefs.

LOL.... Come on guys its way too soon to call for the mans head.
Bill Gates no longer works for Microsoft. He's been retired for about a year now. He now devotes all of his time to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation.

TexanSam
08-23-2009, 08:09 PM
This is what I call an overreaction.

For now.

gary
08-23-2009, 08:10 PM
If the D doesn't make any improvements this season then it's time to look at some of the players. The lackluster attiude is on them as well. Players who have the talent but don't care like Okam and a couple of others must get hungry and make up for their sloppy play at DT or be told to get out. The CB's Fred does not look like he is going to be the player that he was all hyped up to be with his poor coverage and getting beaten one on one but I hope I am proven wrong. Why blame Frank when this team is as thin as they are in the backfield? It's all on the players to want to win as well as the coaching staff. Last night the team looked very lazy and they were just going through the motions of playing football. Lets just wait and see how it goes before we all jump on the fire Frank Bush bandwagon after just one preseason game. I will say if Bush gets the pink slip then count on him and Gary getting one together because Gary is one that promoted him when there were better options out there to start with. Come on already, give the man a break.

Marcus
08-23-2009, 08:11 PM
Sometimes I really hate this message board.

I'm not naming any names, but there's is one poster on here that truly disgusts me to no end.

Specnatz
08-23-2009, 08:21 PM
Sometimes I really hate this message board.

I'm not naming any names, but there's is one poster on here that truly disgusts me to no end.

I apologize for Thorn, I will see if I can get him to post more while drinking and Angry.

Honoring Earl 34
08-23-2009, 08:22 PM
I do think Kubiak bet his job on Bush . I think if the Texans regress , we'll have a new DC .

NitroGSXR
08-23-2009, 08:24 PM
I apologize for Thorn, I will see if I can get him to post more while drinking and Angry.
Marcus... I'd really like to apologize for my fellow Austinite. I'll see if I can get him straightened out at our first away game. I'm sure I'll be seeing him then.

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 08:24 PM
Sometimes I really hate this message board.

I'm not naming any names, but there's is one poster on here that truly disgusts me to no end.

And who would that be? :foottap:

Honoring Earl 34
08-23-2009, 08:25 PM
And who would that be? :foottap:

I think it's displaced anger from the foot injury .

Marcus
08-23-2009, 08:45 PM
And who would that be? :foottap:

I'm surprised anyone actually needs a hint, but do the initials 'SH' ring any bells? He's like a belligerent drunk.

NitroGSXR
08-23-2009, 09:06 PM
I'm surprised anyone actually needs a hint, but do the initials 'SH' ring any bells? He's like a belligerent drunk.
SHhhhhhhh.....

b0ng
08-23-2009, 09:08 PM
And I was hoping it'd be foul-mouthed over optimist me.

BOLD PREDICTION: this thread will go to 2 pages, the Texans D will be good for a couple weeks. Then when they suck again, a new shiny sparkly thread for firing Bush will apear and this one will be forgotten.

Specnatz
08-23-2009, 09:14 PM
And I was hoping it'd be foul-mouthed over optimist me.

BOLD PREDICTION: this thread will go to 4 pages, the Texans D will be good for a couple weeks. Then when they suck again, a new shiny sparkly thread for firing Bush will apear and this one will be forgotten.

fixed, hey got to have a few pages bitching about the thread

ChrisG
08-23-2009, 09:46 PM
Oh, brother.

It is two games into the preseason, and already the numskullery has begun.

Fire the coach! Fire the coach!

You have got to be kidding me.

ik u would think this its HT.com ...we actually have standards here, i hate this crap especially this early

Silver Oak
08-23-2009, 10:00 PM
on a positive note, the Miss Universe pageant just had the swimsuit competition.

I love Miss Australia, Rachel Finch.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/images/uploadedfiles/editorial/pictures/2009/03/23/finch.gif

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 10:25 PM
on a positive note, the Miss Universe pageant just had the swimsuit competition.

I love Miss Australia, Rachel Finch.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/images/uploadedfiles/editorial/pictures/2009/03/23/finch.gif

WOW!!!!!!!!!!

She needs to be in the Babe of the day thread!

valleytexfan
08-23-2009, 10:28 PM
on a positive note, the Miss Universe pageant just had the swimsuit competition.

I love Miss Australia, Rachel Finch.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au/images/uploadedfiles/editorial/pictures/2009/03/23/finch.gif

agree 100%

Specnatz
08-23-2009, 10:29 PM
what is babe of day thread? LOL

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 10:33 PM
what is babe of day thread? LOL

a well kept secret amungst the posters on this board. :cow: <-------- by the way, I love this new guy.

Specnatz
08-23-2009, 10:34 PM
a well kept secret amungst the posters on this board. :cow: <-------- by the way, I love this new guy.

Have you ever been to a chili cookoff?

:chili:

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 10:51 PM
Have you ever been to a chili cookoff?

:chili:

No. And its odd cus I love chili.

LORK 88
08-23-2009, 10:57 PM
We gave Richard Smith 3 seasons to prove himself (or in his case fail). The least we could do is give Frank Bush 3 pre-season games, especially considering that defenses never blitz or show anything during the pre-season. What's next, saying Kyle Shanahan should be fired because we only scored 14 points in the pre-season?

Brando
08-23-2009, 11:01 PM
Could we have at least waited until after a few games in the regular season to start a fire (insert name) thread? I was disappointed as anyone Saturday night but c'mon!

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 11:17 PM
Could we have at least waited until after a few games in the regular season to start a fire (insert name) thread? I was disappointed as anyone Saturday night but c'mon!

Dont try to unhijack a Highjacked thread by sticking to the topic.

We are talking about Babes, chili, new smilies, and people we dont like. :ant:

Lucky
08-23-2009, 11:28 PM
What's next, saying Kyle Shanahan should be fired because we only scored 14 points in the pre-season?
I thought Baby Shanny made some sorry calls last night. But hey, this is Frank's thread.:texflag:

Specnatz
08-23-2009, 11:29 PM
Dont try to unhijack a Highjacked thread by sticking to the topic.

We are talking about Babes, chili, new smilies, and people we dont like. :ant:

:goodluck: With that, seriously.

thunderkyss
08-23-2009, 11:35 PM
First off, if you've been listening to Texans Chick, the players, and myself, it should be no surprise, that we're not going to have a new intricate system. For those of you waiting for the regular season, hoping to see some "scheme"..... get it out now. It ain't going to happen. We may blitz a little more than we did last year, but that's about it.


What's really going to be interesting to see, is how quick so many of the guys in this thread is going to flip, when the regular season starts, and we look decent to good on defense. When our stats has us in the top 20, or the 15...

Truth be told, we really won't be much better than we are now. The level of competition will. Yesterday, we got beyotch slapped by the Saints. Next week the Vikings will give us the Pimp hand. Then our second/third/fourth string guys will play the bucks.....

Then we'll play the Jets, the Titans, Jacksonville, and Oakland. Decent running games all of them, but questionable passing games. We'll stack the box, and keep them contained.

But everybody is going to think we've gotten a lot better all of a sudden.

Arizona can't run the ball. Cincinnatti can't run the ball... San Fran?? One sided now, but by that time in the season, who knows who they'll be?

NYJ, Tennessee Titans, & New England Patriots are the only top 10 running teams we'll face this year. Only New England is balanced enough to present a real problem. But by the time we face them, hopefully we'll have our stuff together.

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 11:54 PM
:goodluck: With that, seriously.

Damn, looks like it just got unhijacked.

Speaking of which, we need a hijacker smiley.

Second Honeymoon
08-24-2009, 12:08 AM
I hear you Arlington but let me pose a question to everyone and forgive me for borrowing trouble before it gets here.

Hypothetical situation: We play this season and our defense is in every way, shape, and form exactly like the one we've been watching for the last 4 years. Say we end up in the mid to high twenties on that side of the ball and all year long we hear about progress being made and how sometimes we (the fans) can't see the good things that are taking place or how particular plays aren't exactly failures but instead are the result of just one man being out of position. You know all the spin moves from the last four years.

Now, I don't think that will happen and I don't want that to happen. I want Frank Bush to succeed in every way possible and I want to see the Texans defense finish somewhere in the low teens if they can. I think that can be done with these players if the coaching is there, the system is sound, and the effort shows up.

But what if they don't change? I think people are going to completely wig out over this and I think that if that happens they'll be right to do so. From day one it's been so scary thinking that the Texans essentially did nothing but fire a bad coach and replace him with someone no more likely to succeed. Nobody wants this but the suspicion is difficult to shake and having players like DeMeco say "It's the same system, just more aggressive" in interviews just keeps that feeling at the pit of my stomach.

If we get everyone back and can't stop the run at all this season just like we've been unable to stop the run pretty much "forever" then I'm going to be sick because we could have hired a real defensive coordinator this time around and instead we'll end up giving a noob a couple of seasons of our players careers to go be "aggressive".

I swear I do not have my mind made up about Frank. I'm desperate for him to show progress and to somehow bring the missing ingredient to the table that makes us at least moderately effective. I'm just terrified that nothing has changed. I think that's where this stuff comes from and I feel it too. I need to see some evidence that we're not the Richard Smith defense anymore.

Thanks, Herv. You know where I am coming from and are wise enough to see how this could possibly play out moving forward....I can already hear the coachspeak if this 'experiment' fails. I just don't know what Frank Bush has done to show he was the most qualified candidate other than the fact that he is friends with Kubes and coached for the Broncos. THe franchise owed it to itself to look outside for a DC.

It looked like the same ole same ole out there in their pace and their energy. I know its just preseason but that is the same garbage we have heard every preseason when our defense looks flat and the scheme sucks. We hear 'Wer'e not running all our packages' or even the dreaded 'We just have to get our players to EXECUTE'.

And the title of the thread could have been 'Is Richard Smith still our DC?' but thats not as provocative and fun as 'Fire Frank Bush'...and its like buying a domain name or something. Maybe I should godaddy.com and buy up www.firefrankbush.com

Specnatz
08-24-2009, 12:15 AM
Thanks, Herv. You know where I am coming from and are wise enough to see how this could possibly play out moving forward....I can already hear the coachspeak if this 'experiment' fails. I just don't know what Frank Bush has done to show he was the most qualified candidate other than the fact that he is friends with Kubes and coached for the Broncos. THe franchise owed it to itself to look outside for a DC.

It looked like the same ole same ole out there in their pace and their energy. I know its just preseason but that is the same garbage we have heard every preseason when our defense looks flat and the scheme sucks. We hear 'Wer'e not running all our packages' or even the dreaded 'We just have to get our players to EXECUTE'.

And the title of the thread could have been 'Is Richard Smith still our DC?' but thats not as provocative and fun as 'Fire Frank Bush'...and its like buying a domain name or something. Maybe I should godaddy.com and buy up www.firefrankbush.com

Hey the offense sucked in game one after Schaub left and sucked in this game as well. You failed to mention that. Also vy looked great in preseason game number 2 but sucked in game 2. Not to mention their D sucked really bad against the cowgirls. It is preseason ... I know you like pointing fingers early but can we wait until after two reg season games?

Second Honeymoon
08-24-2009, 12:16 AM
I'm surprised anyone actually needs a hint, but do the initials 'SH' ring any bells? He's like a belligerent drunk.

i wont stoop down to your kindergarten level out of respect to the mods on this board.

gtexan02
08-24-2009, 12:28 AM
2008 Preseason:

Week 1, the VIkings give up 34 points to the Seahawks.
Minnesota finished with the 6th best defense that season.

Week 2, the Steelers give up 24 to the Bills. Edwards goes 9/11 with 2 TDs against Pitts 1s.
Pittsburg ends up with the #1 ranked defense.

Week 2, Giants give up 34 to the Browns.
Giants end up with 5th ranked defense.

Week 3, the Redskins give up 47 to the Panthers. 3rd preseason game is mostly starters.
Redskins end up with 4th ranked d unit that year.


Its preseason. Its one game. If this turns into a trend, then we can start worrying.

Second Honeymoon
08-24-2009, 12:34 AM
Hey the offense sucked in game one after Schaub left and sucked in this game as well. You failed to mention that. Also vy looked great in preseason game number 2 but sucked in game 2. Not to mention their D sucked really bad against the cowgirls. It is preseason ... I know you like pointing fingers early but can we wait until after two reg season games?

point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak. The 1st Team has done a good job eliminating turnovers and other than Duane Brown, the 1st Team has looked pretty good as a whole. I mean it sounds so bad to say 'fire' but the guy shouldn't have even been hired in the first place. UNHIRE FRANK BUSH is better, eh? Like a quickie Vegas marriage, couldn't we just get an annullment and have a mulligan.

like tkyss mentioned, it has been confirmed by players that the scheme is the same scheme just 'more aggressive'....nice. a scheme doesn't work for 3 years and you fire a coach just so you can bring one of the coach's assistants to run the same scheme? a coach with no DC experience and a very spotty track record?

Really?

As for how Bush's hiring will effect Kubiak if things go bad moving forward, who knows? But the defense has needed to be fixed since Kubiak got here and Year 4 is looking like same ole same ole.

I did see 'some good things from the defense'. DeMeco showed some fire and looked healthy. Mario's sack was a lame rule away from being a forced fumble. Barwin made some plays. I haven't gone back and watched the game on the DVR and from the endzone its tough to really see how good the DL were getting off the snap.

eriadoc
08-24-2009, 12:39 AM
2008 Preseason:

Week 1, the VIkings give up 34 points to the Seahawks.
Minnesota finished with the 6th best defense that season.

Week 2, the Steelers give up 24 to the Bills. Edwards goes 9/11 with 2 TDs against Pitts 1s.
Pittsburg ends up with the #1 ranked defense.

Week 2, Giants give up 34 to the Browns.
Giants end up with 5th ranked defense.

Week 3, the Redskins give up 47 to the Panthers. 3rd preseason game is mostly starters.
Redskins end up with 4th ranked d unit that year.


Its preseason. Its one game. If this turns into a trend, then we can start worrying.

Those were all aberrations that were easily identifiable at the time. The Texans defense's performance already is a trend. What people want to see is an aberration - one where they stop the other team.

Specnatz
08-24-2009, 12:42 AM
point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak. The 1st Team has done a good job eliminating turnovers and other than Duane Brown, the 1st Team has looked pretty good as a whole. I mean it sounds so bad to say 'fire' but the guy shouldn't have even been hired in the first place. UNHIRE FRANK BUSH is better, eh? Like a quickie Vegas marriage, couldn't we just get an annullment and have a mulligan.

like tkyss mentioned, it has been confirmed by players that the scheme is the same scheme just 'more aggressive'....nice. a scheme doesn't work for 3 years and you fire a coach just so you can bring one of the coach's assistants to run the same scheme? a coach with no DC experience and a very spotty track record?

Really?

As for how Bush's hiring will effect Kubiak if things go bad moving forward, who knows? But the defense has needed to be fixed since Kubiak got here and Year 4 is looking like same ole same ole.

I did see 'some good things from the defense'. DeMeco showed some fire and looked healthy. Mario's sack was a lame rule away from being a forced fumble. Barwin made some plays. I haven't gone back and watched the game on the DVR and from the endzone its tough to really see how good the DL were getting off the snap.

In other words you went off. You put your mouth in motion before you put your brain in gear? Does that about cover it?

Jackie Chiles
08-24-2009, 12:43 AM
point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak. The 1st Team has done a good job eliminating turnovers and other than Duane Brown, the 1st Team has looked pretty good as a whole. I mean it sounds so bad to say 'fire' but the guy shouldn't have even been hired in the first place. UNHIRE FRANK BUSH is better, eh? Like a quickie Vegas marriage, couldn't we just get an annullment and have a mulligan.

A bit off topic but Duane has looked improved in pass protection to me. By a good bit actually. He has been pretty much mirroring his guy and forcing him around Schaub. I haven't paid much attention to him in the running game but the line as a whole hasn't been good there and I'm not worried about his run blocking as much as his pass protection. A couple penalties but, eh, I can chalk that up to preseason more easily than the entire collapse of the defense. He hasn't faced a good rusher yet though so this week against Minny will tell me more but I can't fault him for the competition he has had to face.

DutchTexan
08-24-2009, 12:53 AM
Come on guys, it's just preseason. Don't be frustrated, better times are coming. I'm sure of that! :texflag:

ReliantTexan
08-24-2009, 01:23 AM
point taken, but this thread is about Fire Frank Bush. The offense has shown that it can put points on the board under Kubiak. The offense showed that it could put points on the board because it was actually given a CHANCE to. Something your not willing to give Bush's defense. How can Bush prove anything if you're wanting him fired before his defense even takes the field for a real NFL game.

Shaft75
08-24-2009, 02:14 AM
Before you talk about firing a coach, I really think you should watch some tape of Okoye, Bennett and Smith. They all looked pretty suspect last night.

thunderkyss
08-24-2009, 10:34 AM
Its preseason. Its one game. If this turns into a trend, then we can start worrying.

I don't know about that. We saw what I think the coaches saw Saturday night. The coaches should be concerned now. I think. Next week, if we see the same thing, I think we should start worrying.

It's just a preseason game, I don't want anyone to get hurt, but they can get hurt just as bad by not trying.

I'll get to watch the game for the first time tonight. I'll try to identify what I think the problems are. Playing too high.... too slow off the ball.... awareness..... just getting out-muscled....

In my mind, there will be things I want to see against the Vikings. If I see the same issues Monday, that I'll see tonight, then IMHO, we all have reason to worry.

thunderkyss
08-24-2009, 10:44 AM
These are Kubiak's words on Sunday.


"Bottom line, we weren't physical enough," Kubiak said. "We were very, very poor against the run. There were some missed assignments that also led to that. It's not the group that I've seen practice the last two weeks, so it's disappointing as we try to move forward here and move onto this week. We took a step backward last night."

Aside from the play of linebacker DeMeco Ryans, Kubiak said it was hard to find any positives from the defense's performance. The Texans will have a chance to rebound on Monday Night Football against the Vikings, who had the No. 5 rushing offense and No. 1 rushing defense in the league last season.

Not exactly fire Frank Bush..... he seems to blame the players more than anything. Which may very well be the case.

HOU-TEX
08-24-2009, 10:51 AM
Before you talk about firing a coach, I really think you should watch some tape of Okoye, Bennett and Smith. They all looked pretty suspect last night.

True, and there were more than just those 3.

Our D works against the ZBS on a daily basis. There were several ZBS stretch plays run by NO that completely destroyed our D. Players getting schooled by your own offensive scheme = Priceless!

Wolf6151
08-24-2009, 12:24 PM
I don't think we shoud fire Frank Bush yet, but I do think that SH and others have legitimate reason for concern. I also don't like the promotion of Frank Bush from within instead of going outside and getting someone with a fresh perspective and ideas who's not tied to Kubiak because of the job. We don't need a yes man for a D-coordinator. Only time will tell if Frank Bush can bring something fresh to this defense and improve our defensive ranking but if we continue to see the same old thing and there's no marked improvement by the 5th or 6th game of the year then there needs to be some a$$ chewing going on and possibly a midseason D-coordinator change made. Also McNair needs to hold Kubiak and Smith responsible for these failures in coaching. I also can't help but wonder if the promotion of Bush from within wasn't a money saving move by McNair instead of paying a high priced proven D-coordinator.

Thorn
08-24-2009, 12:30 PM
As has been pointed out many times, this is the guy Kubiac wanted to run his defense all along. Well, Kubiac's got his wish. I'm with yall on the defense stinking up the place Saturday, but let's wait and see what this guy has. Kubiac likes him for some reason, so for the time being that's good enough for me.

Mr. White
08-24-2009, 12:39 PM
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.

I'm willing to give Bush a chance, but the fact that Gregg Williams never got an interview over here is a joke.

GP
08-24-2009, 12:42 PM
I don't think we shoud fire Frank Bush yet, but I do think that SH and others have legitimate reason for concern. I also don't like the promotion of Frank Bush from within instead of going outside and getting someone with a fresh perspective and ideas who's not tied to Kubiak because of the job. We don't need a yes man for a D-coordinator. Only time will tell if Frank Bush can bring something fresh to this defense and improve our defensive ranking but if we continue to see the same old thing and there's no marked improvement by the 5th or 6th game of the year then there needs to be some a$$ chewing going on and possibly a midseason D-coordinator change made. Also McNair needs to hold Kubiak and Smith responsible for these failures in coaching. I also can't help but wonder if the promotion of Bush from within wasn't a money saving move by McNair instead of paying a high priced proven D-coordinator.

Nobody wants to blame the owner because that's admitting that we're likely to grow 30 years older and continue to see the same story play itself out every four years.

So the natural conclusion is that it's either the players, or the coaching, or the GM, or a combination of all three. It can never be the owner.

If it's the owner, then there's no hope.

Jerry Jones hasn't looked so brilliant since he hired Jimmy Johnson. Of course, there was the Herschel Walker-to-Minnesota trade that netted the Cowboys a huuuuuuuge amount of player talent. And Jimmy was surrounded by very competitive coordinators at all the positions. When Barry Switzer can come in and win a SB right off the bat, you know your team was stacked!

But since then? The 'Boys have been rocky, at best. So how good is Jerry Jones as an owner? He inherited a franchise that had a huuuuge cult-like following to begin with. He happened upon Jimmy Johnson, and they engineered some trades, and hit on some draft picks at the same time.

Point blank: Things came together into the perfect storm for them.

I think we're near. The offense looks good. It'll be the defense that needs a big push.

J. Sean Wonton
08-24-2009, 12:44 PM
Damn, give the guy a break.

I didn't like that we hired from within because I feel like he should have been able to make some difference while he was here before if he's great, but I understand that the DC makes the calls, so Bush couldn't be held responsible for the past. I also know that Kubiak wanted him in the first place, so the hire is so so to me.

But we gave Smith an extra year longer than we should have, so let's give Bush at least another game. lol Damn, you guys are hard.

thunderkyss
08-24-2009, 01:10 PM
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.


We're playing without our starting center, starting left guard, starting right guard(did Briesel play?) and a second year Left Tackle......

Are you sure what he's doing is working????

TEXANRED
08-24-2009, 01:34 PM
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.

I'm willing to give Bush a chance, but the fact that Gregg Williams never got an interview over here is a joke.

The Aint's defense sucked. We went right down the field and scored. We would of continued to score if out ones were left in. Instead Dan Ono! was thrown in.

Its just a preseason game people, relax. Not even the Colts have looked good.

Vinny
08-24-2009, 01:37 PM
Looks like the Aints went out and got what they needed...a guy that knows defense to coach up their weak defenders. A proven commodity.

I know it's early, but it looks like what he's doing is working.

I'm willing to give Bush a chance, but the fact that Gregg Williams never got an interview over here is a joke.
yep, The league operates at 55 mph but the Texans operate at 35 mph on the feeder road of the NFL. This team is slow to make decisions and they tend to take chances with too many unproven commodities in experiments that take years to unwind. It's like extending Carr when you had an escape clause. You built that in to protect yourself....but when it comes time to dump damaged goods, you extend it because he's such a nice guy and you set your franchise back for a couple of more years.

Blake
08-24-2009, 01:42 PM
Personally I feel pretty crappy about our defense for this year. Besides getting Cushing and Dunta, both of whom we haven't seen on the field yet, what have we done? We took our senior defensive assistant from the defense that ranked 24th and 22nd and prompted him to Defensive Coordinator. We hired Bill Kollar from the Bills which was a good move IMO. I have a feeling that our front 4 will be better as a unit. Here is our regular season rankings for Defense for the existence of the Texans.

2008 Rank# 22
2007 Rank# 24
2006 Rank# 24
2005 Rank# 31
2004 Rank# 23
2003 Rank# 31
2002 Rank# 16

Not very impressive. Our best defensive season came when we had mostly transplants from teams with seasoned NFL defensive coaches. Besides our inaugural season when we were ranked #16, in 7 complete NFL seasons we have yet to put together a top 20 defense.

The final point I want to make is that if you are good on defense, or good on offense, it tends to show at least a little in the pre-season whether or not they are playing vanilla schemes. If you are good, you are good. And until the Texans go into Heinz field, or Gillette Stadium and lay the smack down on a very good offensive team, I will feel no differently about our ability to scheme and gameplan.

Silver Oak
08-24-2009, 02:23 PM
with the same, or worse personnel, we were able to beat some pretty good rushing teams last season in the Jags, Titans, and Packers, and also came very close against the Vikings.


bit too early for this...

http://newsbusters.org/static/2007/03/2007-03-19PanicButton.jpg

eriadoc
08-24-2009, 02:55 PM
Nobody wants to blame the owner because that's admitting that we're likely to grow 30 years older and continue to see the same story play itself out every four years.

So the natural conclusion is that it's either the players, or the coaching, or the GM, or a combination of all three. It can never be the owner.

I call BS. There are plenty of folks on this board that call it like it is, and if McNair was the problem, he'd be called out on this board (like that would matter). The owner of a franchise has to walk a fine line between too much and too little involvement. McNair made rookie mistakes with C&C, to be sure, but he's shown the willingness to correct those problems. I sure as hell don't want an owner who changes coaches every three years. If you give a guy a chance, give him a real chance. Then if he fails, you can move on with a clear conscience. I think Kubiak is entering his deal-breaker year, personally. If he still doesn't get it done, move on. If he comes close to getting ti done (better than 8-8, but no playoffs), then maybe you evaluate that and add one more year, maybe not.

I absolutely do not think McNair has done anything wrong in the Kubiak era, and I rather like having an owner who hires the experts and lets them do their jobs. I like that he hasn't been too quick with the hook, just like I won't like it if he keeps Kubiak on in a stagnant or declining role.

Marcus
08-24-2009, 05:22 PM
I absolutely do not think McNair has done anything wrong in the Kubiak era, and I rather like having an owner who hires the experts and lets them do their jobs. I like that he hasn't been too quick with the hook, just like I won't like it if he keeps Kubiak on in a stagnant or declining role.

The problem doc, is that there will never be agreement on what's a stagnant or declining role.

Texecutioner
08-24-2009, 05:49 PM
Why is this thread still going?

ObsiWan
08-24-2009, 06:24 PM
I thought Baby Shanny made some sorry calls last night. But hey, this is Frank's thread.:texflag:

I'm with you. Our three fumbles and two INTs worry me as much as the defense's "showing". Three turnovers (could have been 5) does not inspire confidence in the offense. Even A.J. put one on the ground.

Vinny
08-24-2009, 06:25 PM
Why is this thread still going?
rich traditions die hard.

C Madd
08-25-2009, 12:19 AM
Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)

http://img156.imageshack.us/img156/9417/fuknoqw0.gif

The Pencil Neck
08-25-2009, 01:20 AM
Sometimes I really hate this message board.

I'm not naming any names, but there's is one poster on here that truly disgusts me to no end.

Sorry.

I'll try to do better in the future.

TimeKiller
08-25-2009, 08:18 AM
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO for this thread. What crap.

Kaiser Toro
08-25-2009, 09:17 AM
It is never too early for a Fire thread, that is what we do as fans. I am more interested to see what adjustments Bush makes week over week.

drewmar74
08-25-2009, 09:52 AM
It is never too early for a Fire thread, that is what we do as fans. I am more interested to see what adjustments Bush makes week over week.

And that may be the real test here.

Richard Smith showed zero ability to evolve as a coordinator. Frank's ability (or inability) to grow and scheme quickly and effectively could be the number one storyline for us this season.

Vinny
08-25-2009, 09:55 AM
It is never too early for a Fire thread, that is what we do as fans. I am more interested to see what adjustments Bush makes week over week.

And that may be the real test here.

Richard Smith showed zero ability to evolve as a coordinator. Frank's ability (or inability) to grow and scheme quickly and effectively could be the number one storyline for us this season.
buying our DT's a ship anchor is against the rules.

Honoring Earl 34
08-25-2009, 09:59 AM
buying our DT's a ship anchor is against the rules.

What about hiring Brian McNamee as their trainer .

Austrian
08-25-2009, 09:59 AM
buying our DT's a ship anchor is against the rules.

Is it?:user:

GP
08-25-2009, 10:09 AM
Sorry.

I'll try to do better in the future.

Whew! I thought it was me. :bender:

Everyone on here has at least one person they don't click with.

I suspect I'm on that list for about 90% of the posters here.

Vinny
08-25-2009, 10:10 AM
Whew! I thought it was me. :bender:

Everyone on here has at least one person they don't click with.

I suspect I'm on that list for about 90% of the posters here.
I think we put that number at 83.25 last week, but you have stayed out of the nsz so expect that number to drop.

Runner
08-25-2009, 10:33 AM
Whew! I thought it was me. :bender:

Everyone on here has at least one person they don't click with.

I suspect I'm on that list for about 90% of the posters here.
I think we put that number at 83.25 last week, but you have stayed out of the nsz so expect that number to drop.

Good one.

Second Honeymoon
08-25-2009, 03:27 PM
Coaching is important and crucial to success. Then why do we insist on hiring guys like Bush with no track record or experience as DC? Oh yeah, he coached at Denver and is friends with Kubes. After all, that is all it takes to work for Gary.

God forbid we hire the most qualified candidate. Things better change and they better change fast or we are looking at 2005 all over again...and don't act like it can't happen.

I drank the KoolAid thinking that Bush was going to change things, but it looks like its status quo on the defense. After all, the scheme has worked so well for us the past 3 years...why not give it another 3 years to blossom.

After all that is the Texans way.

fwiw - thanks for all the support, I don't worry about the opinion of the homers around here because well they are homers, but I do appreciate the support I have gotten for being honest, objective, and non-homering.

Texan_Bill
08-25-2009, 03:44 PM
Meh, I'm not willing to say "Fire Him" after two games, but I hope the leash is short.

I also hope he can get the guys to play the way he, Johnny Meads, Robert Lyles, Robert Abraham, Keith Bostic and Childress, etc. played (albeit in a 3-4).

Second Honeymoon
08-25-2009, 04:00 PM
Meh, I'm not willing to say "Fire Him" after two games, but I hope the leash is short.

I also hope he can get the guys to play the way he, Johnny Meads, Robert Lyles, Robert Abraham, Keith Bostic and Childress, etc. played (albeit in a 3-4).

that's what i am saying, TB. fire him is just to get the conversation going and to light a fire...no coach deserves to be fired after 2 preseason games...but if one deserved to not be hired it would be FB.

i just didnt and still don't think he should have been hired to begin with and I challenge anyone to give me one truly valid reason that he should have been hired other than 1) coached with Denver 2) friends with Gary.

Texan_Bill
08-25-2009, 04:12 PM
that's what i am saying, TB. fire him is just to get the conversation going and to light a fire...no coach deserves to be fired after 2 preseason games...but if one deserved to not be hired it would be FB.

i just didnt and still don't think he should have been hired to begin with and I challenge anyone to give me one truly valid reason that he should have been hired other than 1) coached with Denver 2) friends with Gary.

As for opening up the conversation, I'm all for that. It (or his hiring and/or performance) should be discussed.

As far as the hiring, I have mixed emotions. One hand, I think the Texans jumped the gun and could've interviewed a couple other guys. OTOH, every defensive coordinator in the league, had to have his first shot, somewhere. If he coaches like he played and was coached, this defensive will be a secondary short of being good.

I say give him his shot, but keep tight reigns on him - because we can not afford a nother Dick Smith type of performance from this defense. Saturday night was inexusable. With regard to coaching nepitism, meh that happens everywhere.

Wolf
08-25-2009, 05:30 PM
Texans Kubiak demands defensive upgrade
HOUSTON — It is a good thing the first roster reduction to 75 is not until next week, or the Texans might consider cutting the defense after its performance in Saturday night's 38-14 loss to New Orleans.

Fortunately for the players, especially those competing for starting jobs as well as places on the roster, they have a chance to redeem themselves on Monday Night Football next week against the Minnesota Vikings.

One day later, the abysmal performance against the Saints didn't look any better to the coaches.

“I was disappointed in our overall effort,” coach Gary Kubiak said. “New Orleans was much more physical than we were in all three phases. That was disappointing for me.”

The Saints were first in offense last season, but they were a passing team that relied heavily on quarterback Drew Brees. If the Saints could run for 173 yards and a 6.4-yard average per carry behind Mike Bell (10 carries, 100 yards), imagine what Minnesota is capable of doing.

The Vikings have been a run-oriented team featuring running backs Adrian Peterson and Chester Taylor combining with a run defense that has ranked first in each of the last two seasons.

Now the Vikings have new quarterbacks in Brett Favre and Sage Rosenfels, the former Texan who was traded to Minnesota for a fourth-round draft choice in March.

“We took a step back,” Kubiak said. “I hate to say that because preseason is about stepping forward. Now we've got to rebound against, to me, one of the best teams in the league. I'm looking forward to getting back on the field and seeing how our players respond.”


http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/nfl/Kubiak_demands_defensive_upgrade.html

Joe Texan
08-25-2009, 06:41 PM
Move to Dallas we don't need you any more


Just thought I would go ahead and get this thread started. The defense was the same ole same ole, no heart, and no deception or aggressiveness.

If our defense plays even half as bad as they did last night, we will be lucky to win 6 games. Very lucky.

And don't give me that BS that its only preseason. Last time I heard that garbage, we were pathetic in preseason and we carried that into the season going a miserable 2-14. Last night was a bad omen.

Everyone had to realize that hiring from within was a stupid and ignorant move. The fact that they didn't even interview anyone worth a crap, tells you all you need to know. Bush is Kubiak's friend and Kubes wants to hire his friends or Denver cronies...and we know how good that Denver defense has been....

FIRE FRANK BUSH (yes I am the first and I wont be the last)

TEXANRED
08-25-2009, 06:53 PM
And in further news TXDOT has stated they will issue an Amber alert for the Houston Texans defense. Mr. McNair has issued a $500.00 reward for any information that leads to there whereabouts.





http://chron.com/sports/richard-justice/blog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI)

Wolf
08-25-2009, 06:56 PM
http://chron.com/sports/richard-justice/blog (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI)

must.....resist....link... must ...resi.......



sadly my first thought is that Justice probably loved what happened .. He seems to bash no matter what and this gives him some fuel for the fire.


I have nothing more to add except I will use the smiliey to pole vault over the link :polevault: :whip:

TEXANRED
08-25-2009, 07:05 PM
must.....resist....link... must ...resi.......



sadly my first thought is that Justice probably loved what happened .. He seems to bash no matter what and this gives him some fuel for the fire.


I have nothing more to add except I will use the smiliey to pole vault over the link :polevault: :whip:

................................what? :um:idonno:

Wolf
08-25-2009, 07:09 PM
it was a bad joke

I saw it was a justice link.. and I told myself I would skip his blogs.. he comes up with some wild stuff in the comments that almost ....ALMOST... makes me want to reply to him .


(his comments are just head shaking to me )

TEXANRED
08-25-2009, 07:12 PM
it was a bad joke

I saw it was a justice link.. and I told myself I would skip his blogs.. he comes up with some wild stuff in the comments that almost ....ALMOST... makes me want to reply to him .


(his comments are just head shaking to me )

Well you know there is no new like bad news

Tailgate
08-25-2009, 07:23 PM
I just dont really understand why there is this level of fuss over FB right now. From what I saw on Sat, it was more we were getting beaten straight up...man to man. That is more personnel and position coaches. Is anyone not confident in Kollar? You are not going to see much of anything other than a base D right now. So the real concern will come for me if at all after I have at least had the chance to see his real playbook open up.

Second Honeymoon
08-25-2009, 08:46 PM
I just dont really understand why there is this level of fuss over FB right now. From what I saw on Sat, it was more we were getting beaten straight up...man to man. That is more personnel and position coaches. Is anyone not confident in Kollar? You are not going to see much of anything other than a base D right now. So the real concern will come for me if at all after I have at least had the chance to see his real playbook open up.

you forgot 'we didn't show all our blitz packages' and 'we played it pretty close to the vest'

Kaiser Toro
08-25-2009, 08:49 PM
you forgot 'we didn't show all our blitz packages' and 'we played it pretty close to the vest'

Come on, this time of year is about the kids. :specnatz:

Tailgate
08-25-2009, 08:52 PM
you forgot 'we didn't show all our blitz packages' and 'we played it pretty close to the vest'

Sounds like a better option than.... Oh geese..2-14 here we come! Its over!

dalemurphy
08-25-2009, 09:05 PM
you forgot 'we didn't show all our blitz packages' and 'we played it pretty close to the vest'

I'm somewhat comforted by the level of surprise and disappointment coming from the players and coaches. 2005, if you recall, it was as if the organization was willing to lose royally. I don't see that kind of quit, lack of talent, attitude, or anything else from this group.

That being said, I'm very concerned about our DTs, particularly Okoye, and I will throw a gasket if he looks outmatched again on Monday but remains in the starting lineup on week one.

Statis22
08-25-2009, 10:42 PM
Lol after 2 preseason game.

Wow

Vinny
08-25-2009, 10:58 PM
I just dont really understand why there is this level of fuss over FB right now. From what I saw on Sat, it was more we were getting beaten straight up...man to man. That is more personnel and position coaches. Is anyone not confident in Kollar? You are not going to see much of anything other than a base D right now. So the real concern will come for me if at all after I have at least had the chance to see his real playbook open up. what level of fuss is there really? A few folks posting a few critical comments? This thread title is tongue in cheek, the team played horribly Saturday and we are here to react to the game...good games, bad games, it doesn't matter - NFL fans are gonna be emotional and reactionary about their franchises. It's the same way all across the NFL.

DocBar
08-25-2009, 11:00 PM
Since all decisions ultimately boil down to the owner, let's fire McNair. Maybe Bud Adams can afford 2 NFL teams. Remember those days? Houston has the craziest fans. I'm proud to be one of them.

BorrowMe
08-25-2009, 11:03 PM
It's just preseason...we didn't even show that much blitzes, it was mostly base defense...Even Captain 'Meco said it at the launcheon. Just wait 'till Game 1 against the Jets, we're going to MURDER them with our true defensive plays.

DocBar
08-25-2009, 11:18 PM
It's just preseason...we didn't even show that much blitzes, it was mostly base defense...Even Captain 'Meco said it at the launcheon. Just wait 'till Game 1 against the Jets, we're going to MURDER them with our true defensive plays. Who spiked the kool-ade?

Specnatz
08-25-2009, 11:20 PM
what level of fuss is there really? A few folks posting a few critical comments? This thread title is tongue in cheek, the team played horribly Saturday and we are here to react to the game...good games, bad games, it doesn't matter - NFL fans are gonna be emotional and reactionary about their franchises. It's the same way all across the NFL.

The thread title maybe tongue-n-cheek now but knowing the started all to well and his ability to go off the deep easily it was not intended like that when it was started.

Their was already 3 threads in which the game could be discussed. So why another worded as such? Reactionary? Don't you mean over-reaction?

steelbtexan
08-25-2009, 11:25 PM
Since all decisions ultimately boil down to the owner, let's fire McNair. Maybe Bud Adams can afford 2 NFL teams. Remember those days? Houston has the craziest fans. I'm proud to be one of them.

Count me in this group

I'm proud to be one of the crazies too

Vinny
08-25-2009, 11:30 PM
The thread title maybe tongue-n-cheek now but knowing the started all to well and his ability to go off the deep easily it was not intended like that when it was started.

Their was already 3 threads in which the game could be discussed. So why another worded as such? Reactionary? Don't you mean over-reaction? I think the server can handle three negative threads, there are a lot of good conversations in other threads. It's not the end of the world and it's just what you find on most football forums....a few guys taking a cartoon stance. It's just part of the program if you are gonna play on a mb methinks. Nobody makes us clicky the crazy overemotional threads, but we do...it's like rubbernecking - everyone beaches about it, but everyone does it.

Tailgate
08-26-2009, 12:37 AM
I think the server can handle three negative threads, there are a lot of good conversations in other threads. It's not the end of the world and it's just what you find on most football forums....a few guys taking a cartoon stance. It's just part of the program if you are gonna play on a mb methinks. Nobody makes us clicky the crazy overemotional threads, but we do...it's like rubbernecking - everyone beaches about it, but everyone does it.

Just hard to keep my football buzz going around here...and the season hasnt even started yet. But yes, I click it to myself.

TexansFight
08-26-2009, 02:08 AM
yep, The league operates at 55 mph but the Texans operate at 35 mph on the feeder road of the NFL. This team is slow to make decisions and they tend to take chances with too many unproven commodities in experiments that take years to unwind. It's like extending Carr when you had an escape clause. You built that in to protect yourself....but when it comes time to dump damaged goods, you extend it because he's such a nice guy and you set your franchise back for a couple of more years.

Nail meet hammer. Once again Vinny you hit a bullseye. The Texans are WAY too slow in making changes. Richard Smith should have been fired after his FIRST YEAR. That joker would not have lasted more than 1 year much less the 3 years with his pathetic defense if he worked for one of the top organizations in the NFL such as the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, Giants, Colts, etc.

Don't get me started on picking up David Carr's option. He would have been ridden out on a rail mercilessly in any other NFL city YEARS before we finally got rid of him.

My mindset this year is Playoffs or Bust. The Texans better share that same mindset because it is close to TWENTY YEARS now that this city has had an NFL team play a frigging PLAYOFF GAME! I don't know if I can take another year of mediocrity.

I am trying to stay positive because I believe this team can make some noise but Saturday was bitterly disappointing. Amobi and our defensive line whom we have invested more money and top picks than virtually any other team getting carved up like Swiss cheese is a huge downer and is deflating.

If we see the same crap Monday, then I'll press the panic button. All I know is I want to see some nastiness out of our D against the Vikings in order to restore some pride and for payback for that SOB Jared Allen cheapshotting and kneecapping Schaub. That team is physical on both lines and will be a very good test.

What kills me is that the Texans defense looks like pure amateur hour when I watch teams like the Ravens, Steelers and Eagles drive offenses crazy with all the pressure they bring from every angle. Our defensive scheme looks like a middle school scheme compared to these guys. I would have killed for a Jim Johnson protege coach up our soft defense.

PHAROAH
08-26-2009, 02:24 AM
The defense had a horrible game the secondary stinks and we need daunte if he is going to be here now and If not let's some real cornerbacks on the roster.

beerlover
08-26-2009, 04:32 AM
This is not Frank Bush first season with the Texans but its his first in charge defensively. The 09 draft was dedicated to players he signed off on & so far its very promising.

I beleive its all about personel. You need players to either elevate, develop or transcend the speed of the NFL as Vinny alludes to, so its talent stupid, Texans being short of quality & depth. Injurys early on & counting on rookies costs you early season losses, as they return to health & younger players develop everthing seems alright again.

This is why pre-season is important, you practice like you play. You watch players compete individual battles, see if they get the scheme & can execute the game plan, constant improvement & effort. Lets wait to see if Bush can push the right buttons while talent level increases before we just sign off "Fire Frank Bush".

no thanks, count me out of that one :ant:

Marcus
08-26-2009, 03:23 PM
If it's the "same old scheme" again, then why are we calling out players names? :thinking:

Second Honeymoon
08-26-2009, 04:19 PM
The thread title maybe tongue-n-cheek now but knowing the started all to well and his ability to go off the deep easily it was not intended like that when it was started.

Their was already 3 threads in which the game could be discussed. So why another worded as such? Reactionary? Don't you mean over-reaction?

it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.

PHAROAH
08-26-2009, 04:25 PM
it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire. I agree with you this was a poor hire but let's give him time to see how the defense will turn out.

Silver Oak
08-26-2009, 05:01 PM
it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.

correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you sporting a "FIRE KUBIAK" line in your sig after season 1? I guess that was just stirring the pot too?

ReliantTexan
08-26-2009, 05:37 PM
this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.I'm sure Giants fans were saying the same thing after they hired Steve Spagnuolo(who had no experience as a DC either), that was until his defense shut down the pats in the SB . Every great DC had to start somewhere, and obviously Kubiak thought Bush was qualified and the best guy available, or else he wouldn't have hired him. Do you really think Kubiak doesn't know that his job most likely hinges on this descision?

dalemurphy
08-26-2009, 06:11 PM
it was tongue in cheek from teh beginning and anyone with a pulse knows that. its called stirring the pot.

would i be happy if we had a new DC tomorrow? yes, but i am not advocating firing a guy after 2 preseason games....

this thread will probably balloon to epic proportions later this year and some of the haters will be singing the same tune as I am....frank bush is unqualified and was not the best guy available...period. end of story...thus not a good hire.

So, if the defense plays well, then it's just a joke. But, if they struggle, then you were the first to predict it and will flood the board with "I told you so".

Classic!

Wolf
08-26-2009, 06:13 PM
So, if the defense plays well, then it's just a joke. But, if they struggle, then you were the first to predict it and will flood the board with "I told you so".

Classic!

coaches are hired to be fired.. the prediction will come , in time
:pirate::splits:

Second Honeymoon
08-26-2009, 06:39 PM
correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you sporting a "FIRE KUBIAK" line in your sig after season 1? I guess that was just stirring the pot too?

i have never had a FIRE KUBIAK sig but did rock a FIRE RICHARD SMITH sig for almost a year.

Silver Oak
08-26-2009, 06:40 PM
i have never had a FIRE KUBIAK sig but did rock a FIRE RICHARD SMITH sig for almost a year.

then I have you confused with someone else. sorry.

I know there was someone who popped up with a fire kubiak sig though...

Runner
08-26-2009, 06:43 PM
a lot of doom and gloom posts the past day and a half and so I had to make adjustments LOL

Well, it may be preseason for the players but its nice to see the Texan fans in mid season form.

I disagree that the fans are in midseason form. If they were, when the Texans look so bad I'd be reading posts spun that it's gut check time. That gut check would result in upping the season prediction from 10-6 to 12-4.

:)

Second Honeymoon
08-26-2009, 06:47 PM
So, if the defense plays well, then it's just a joke. But, if they struggle, then you were the first to predict it and will flood the board with "I told you so".

Classic!

its not a joke. would you have preferred 'Frank Bush was a bad hire' or 'Kubiak hires another unqualified Broncos coach' or 'Frank Bush = Richard Smith' as for me saying 'i told you so', i stated that Bush was a bad hire the day he was hired and I stand by that.

Does that mean he was a bad hire? we won't know until we see actual meaningful games but the fact that he was assistant to the pisspoor defenses we have had the last few years doesnt make me feel good and the fact the he is running the same scheme doesnt make me feel good either. honestly, the fact that some of you disagree with me makes me feel pretty secure because its hard for some of you to be even marginally objective.

some of you guys are such homers that any criticism of the team and its coaches gets your panties all in a wad

its kinda funny. i hope i am wrong about Bush but he smells like a cheap hire of another Broncos coach who hasn't done squat

oh, and Spags hiring as a DC came after he had actual success as an assistant. Bush has not. The guy was partially responsible for the last few years defense and if you say he is not, then you are kidding yourself. He had done nothing to merit and the fact that no one else wanted to even interview him for a job should tell you all you need to know....but some will be ignorant and act like the guy is somehow destined for greatness.

i think the guy is destined for the unemployment line because he is not qualified...and Gary might be right behind him due to his inability to attract even a halfway qualified defensive coordinator...but whatever, Gary is beyond reproach and Bush is a god amongst DCs.

just try and mix in some objectivity and lose the homering if you are going to actually try and formulate a honest opinion

Second Honeymoon
08-26-2009, 06:51 PM
I'm sure Giants fans were saying the same thing after they hired Steve Spagnuolo(who had no experience as a DC either), that was until his defense shut down the pats in the SB . Every great DC had to start somewhere, and obviously Kubiak thought Bush was qualified and the best guy available, or else he wouldn't have hired him. Do you really think Kubiak doesn't know that his job most likely hinges on this descision?

great opinion and a good angle. however for every Spag success story there are a myriad of failures.

i do appreciate the objectivity and reason you displayed though. Kubiak could very well get some criticism for the hiring. i think if he keeps the offense progressing he may get a mulligan on this one though. Kubiak has done a good job with the offense he just might be forced to look outside hte Denver circle for the next DC.

Thorn
08-26-2009, 06:56 PM
Fire Bush!

Oh wait, he's not in office anymore. Nevermind.

thunderkyss
08-26-2009, 07:15 PM
Nail meet hammer. Once again Vinny you hit a bullseye. The Texans are WAY too slow in making changes. Richard Smith should have been fired after his FIRST YEAR. That joker would not have lasted more than 1 year much less the 3 years with his pathetic defense if he worked for one of the top organizations in the NFL such as the Steelers, Patriots, Eagles, Giants, Colts, etc.

Even if you gave him Jason Babin, Travis Johnson, Seth Payne, Morlon Greenwood, Shantee Orr Glen Earl, CC Brown & Phillip Buchanon as your starters?

Only one name from that group is still on the team.

Brisco_County
08-26-2009, 07:19 PM
oh, and Spags hiring as a DC came after he had actual success as an assistant. Bush has not. The guy was partially responsible for the last few years defense and if you say he is not, then you are kidding yourself. He had done nothing to merit and the fact that no one else wanted to even interview him for a job should tell you all you need to know....but some will be ignorant and act like the guy is somehow destined for greatness.

Bush joined the Texans at the end of 2007. Kubiak initially wanted Bush to be DC, but he couldn't get out of his contract with Arizona, so Richard Smith was the next choice.

thunderkyss
08-26-2009, 07:31 PM
....but the fact that he was assistant to the pisspoor defenses we have had the last few years doesnt make me feel good and the fact the he is running the same scheme doesnt make me feel good either. honestly, the fact that some of you disagree with me makes me feel pretty secure because its hard for some of you to be even marginally objective.


If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you. Not the firing Frank Bush, but the hiring didn't make sense, when there were "beter" qualified people out there.

Maybe Kubiak knows he can't work with Greg Williams? Maybe he doesn't want another "former head coach" second guessing him? Maybe he doesn't agree with Greg Williams' ethics, or the way he treats the players.. I don't know, & I'll never know. But knowing what I do know, it doesn't make sense he wasn't brought in for a look-see.

Hiring Frank Bush... IMHO, the decision to fire Richard Smith should have been made mid November. From then on, Bush should have been "trying out" for the job. Richard Smith should have been DC in name only, and FB should have been running the show. Did Kubiak see something in those last 4 games to confirm Bush was the man for the job? Did the player morale take a huge jump up? Did he see progress? I can't imagine. It's possible, but I just don't know.

I like the Kollar & Gibbs hire. I've always liked the Ray Rhodes hire.... would have liked to have seen him as the DC. But I think we're putting together a nice coaching staff....

But still I question the Frank Bush "promotion"

ObsiWan
08-26-2009, 07:44 PM
If it makes you feel any better, I agree with you. Not the firing Frank Bush, but the hiring didn't make sense, when there were "beter" qualified people out there.

Maybe Kubiak knows he can't work with Greg Williams? Maybe he doesn't want another "former head coach" second guessing him? Maybe he doesn't agree with Greg Williams' ethics, or the way he treats the players.. I don't know, & I'll never know. But knowing what I do know, it doesn't make sense he wasn't brought in for a look-see.

Hiring Frank Bush... IMHO, the decision to fire Richard Smith should have been made mid November. From then on, Bush should have been "trying out" for the job. Richard Smith should have been DC in name only, and FB should have been running the show. Did Kubiak see something in those last 4 games to confirm Bush was the man for the job? Did the player morale take a huge jump up? Did he see progress? I can't imagine. It's possible, but I just don't know.

I like the Kollar & Gibbs hire. I've always liked the Ray Rhodes hire.... would have liked to have seen him as the DC. But I think we're putting together a nice coaching staff....

But still I question the Frank Bush "promotion"

I have a question:
If we got dogged at the DL level and the DB level, why isn't some of this "disappointment" aimed at Coaches Kollar and Little Gibbs?? I understand the "buck stops at the top" mindset, but why not start at the places where the problem seems to be. Isn't that like cursing the whole car because you have a flat tire? Shouldn't we be cursing the tire?

thunderkyss
08-26-2009, 07:48 PM
I have a question:
If we got dogged at the DL level and the DB level, why isn't some of this "disappointment" aimed at Coaches Kollar and Little Gibbs?? I understand the "buck stops at the top" mindset, but why not start at the places where the problem seems to be. Isn't that like cursing the whole car because you have a flat tire? Shouldn't we be cursing the tire?

I'm not cursing anybody.... not even Frank Bush. I'm just saying I can understand the "confusion" around the Frank Bush promotion.

Second Honeymoon
08-26-2009, 08:02 PM
Coaching is just so important, you really should spare no expense and leave no stone unturned when assembling a coaching staff. I am all for giving guys chances but wasn't his chance the last two years as a top defensive coach? What did he show during that time to merit a promotion? *crickets*

I know that some of our personnel is questionable as starters but thats how it is for 75% of the league. You have weaknesses in today's salary cap era. It's how your coaches hide your weaknesses and how your coaches exploit the other team's weaknesses. If your secondary sucks, you have to blitz and disguise coverages. You don't sit back in a zone and send 4 against the QB. Not in this league. If you still can't get pressure with the blitz then its time to find another scheme that works, and possibly another coach to run it.

Maybe the team can rally around the horrible embarassing performance. I would love to see it. These players aren't that bad. They just don't seem to be that fired up and focused on dominating the line of scrimmage. Where is the hunger and the heart? People can say the money they make should be enough motivation but its not that simple. You have to challenge players. You have to understand what they do will and exploit that. If a player isn't getting the job done, you have to have the balls to bench him (Okoye comes to mind) You can't worry about how much they are making or where they were drafted. We need players with heart and passion.

The best thing the Texans could have done this offseason was to back up the Brinks truck to Ray Lewis' miami estate and hand him a blank check to come bring some heart, passion, and dedication to this defense of ours. It probably wouldn't have worked but that is the type of player we need. I am not sure if Mario is wired that way but I think DeMeco and/or Cushing could help bring more of that desire. I sure hope Cushing can stay healthy, the kid plays and trains hard..thats for sure.

ObsiWan
08-26-2009, 08:14 PM
Personally, I would have rather had Gregg Williams. But I'm not sure he was available when we were shopping around. In fact, I don't recall who at other guys even got an interview; some of you guys with better memories probably recall the timeline and applicants.

I'm not totally sure that Kubiak ever gave anyone besides Frank a real shot at that job.

Specnatz
08-26-2009, 08:18 PM
correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't you sporting a "FIRE KUBIAK" line in your sig after season 1? I guess that was just stirring the pot too?

i have never had a FIRE KUBIAK sig but did rock a FIRE RICHARD SMITH sig for almost a year.

Actually he was starting threads of fire Kubiak 4 games into his second season.

gary
08-26-2009, 08:25 PM
We are a very stressful bunch about our football team just fire everyone and let the players play.

Silver Oak
08-26-2009, 08:25 PM
some of you guys are such homers that any criticism of the team and its coaches gets your panties all in a wad



I don't mind being labeled a homer. It's part of the experience to me of being a fan, much like chasing a love interest....the pursuit, the falling in love, the heartaches...to me, it's all part of it.

To support a team without putting your whole heart into it just seems kind of pointless to me. That's not to say I can't objectively look at a problem and agree that a change needs to be made, it's just that I would be slower to do it than a non-fan would.

To be frank though SH, I do appreciate having your type around that is quicker to point out what you perceive to be shortcomings. It brings a sort of balance to the whole thing.

dalemurphy
08-26-2009, 08:43 PM
its not a joke. would you have preferred 'Frank Bush was a bad hire' or 'Kubiak hires another unqualified Broncos coach' or 'Frank Bush = Richard Smith' as for me saying 'i told you so', i stated that Bush was a bad hire the day he was hired and I stand by that.
Does that mean he was a bad hire? we won't know until we see actual meaningful games but the fact that he was assistant to the pisspoor defenses we have had the last few years doesnt make me feel good and the fact the he is running the same scheme doesnt make me feel good either. honestly, the fact that some of you disagree with me makes me feel pretty secure because its hard for some of you to be even marginally objective.

some of you guys are such homers that any criticism of the team and its coaches gets your panties all in a wad

its kinda funny. i hope i am wrong about Bush but he smells like a cheap hire of another Broncos coach who hasn't done squat

oh, and Spags hiring as a DC came after he had actual success as an assistant. Bush has not. The guy was partially responsible for the last few years defense and if you say he is not, then you are kidding yourself. He had done nothing to merit and the fact that no one else wanted to even interview him for a job should tell you all you need to know....but some will be ignorant and act like the guy is somehow destined for greatness.

i think the guy is destined for the unemployment line because he is not qualified...and Gary might be right behind him due to his inability to attract even a halfway qualified defensive coordinator...but whatever, Gary is beyond reproach and Bush is a god amongst DCs.

just try and mix in some objectivity and lose the homering if you are going to actually try and formulate a honest opinion


a few things:

1. You were the thread-starter and after being criticized for it you called thread an obvious attempt to be "tongue and cheek".

2. Your complaint that you regularly make about the ownership being "cheap" and that this is an example of it is baseless. Perhaps it will be a bad hire (i don't know), but I'm confident the decision wasn't a financial one.

3. Why isn't Bush qualified? There were better resumes out there but he clearly has enough experience and knowledge to potentially be a good DC. It's not like he's been selling insurance the past 10 years.

4. Being a pessimist and an alarmist doesn't make you "objective"... Instead, it's the farthest thing from it. You are actually no different than a homer, except you replace hope with gloom. Congratulations!

thunderkyss
08-26-2009, 08:53 PM
4. Being a pessimist and an alarmist doesn't make you "objective"... Instead, it's the farthest thing from it. You are actually no different than a homer, except you replace hope with gloom. Congratulations!

QFT...... & I can't repp you.

ChampionTexan
08-26-2009, 09:09 PM
QFT...... & I can't repp you.

Got him for you.

Second Honeymoon
08-26-2009, 10:59 PM
a few things:

1. You were the thread-starter and after being criticized for it you called thread an obvious attempt to be "tongue and cheek".

2. Your complaint that you regularly make about the ownership being "cheap" and that this is an example of it is baseless. Perhaps it will be a bad hire (i don't know), but I'm confident the decision wasn't a financial one.

3. Why isn't Bush qualified? There were better resumes out there but he clearly has enough experience and knowledge to potentially be a good DC. It's not like he's been selling insurance the past 10 years.

4. Being a pessimist and an alarmist doesn't make you "objective"... Instead, it's the farthest thing from it. You are actually no different than a homer, except you replace hope with gloom. Congratulations!

i have been very optimistic at times but there hasn't been a lot to be optimistic about re:defense.

being pessimistic and alarmist? you mean being observant and honest? oh ok.

Kaiser Toro
08-26-2009, 11:16 PM
I love lamp

Specnatz
08-26-2009, 11:42 PM
I love lamp

Lisa Lampanelli?

Ryan
08-26-2009, 11:43 PM
this is the dumbest thread we've had on here in a while.:turtle:

GP
08-26-2009, 11:48 PM
I love lamp

Bears.

Brisco_County
08-27-2009, 04:06 AM
this is the dumbest thread we've had on here in a while.:turtle:

Agreed.

Now let's start a "Fire Glover Quinn" thread instead.:voodoo:

Runner
08-27-2009, 09:19 AM
On one side of me I see shiny-faced optimists. On the other side I see saturnine pessimists. Precisely, absolutely, unambiguously, and indubitably in the middle is me.

Weird.

ChampionTexan
08-27-2009, 10:25 AM
On one side of me I see shiny-faced optimists. On the other side I see saturnine pessimists. Precisely, absolutely, unambiguously, and indubitably in the middle is me.

Weird.

Clowns to the left of me, jokers to the right, here I am stuck in the middle with you...

-Stealers Wheel

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2009, 11:11 AM
i have been very optimistic at times but there hasn't been a lot to be optimistic about re:defense.

being pessimistic and alarmist? you mean being observant and honest? oh ok.

No one thinks they're being unobservant or dishonest. Everyone thinks they're being realistic. At least, I don't think you think that you fly off the handle at the slightest sneeze like an alley cat in a pack of dogs. I'm sure you're being totaly honest and giving what you think is a realistic assessment of the team. But everyone is*. Even the people you think are letting their homerism cloud their judgment.

* Excepting some people who are obviously joking with things like 16-0 comments.

Texan_Bill
08-27-2009, 11:22 AM
* Excepting some people who are obviously joking with things like 16-0 comments.

I said 19-0 damnit!!

The Pencil Neck
08-27-2009, 11:26 AM
I said 19-0 damnit!!

Yeah, but I wasn't referring to that. I was pointing to the obviously unrealistic 16-0 comments.

19-0 is obviously within reach and realistic.

dalemurphy
08-27-2009, 11:27 AM
i have been very optimistic at times but there hasn't been a lot to be optimistic about re:defense.

being pessimistic and alarmist? you mean being observant and honest? oh ok.

SH, I kind of owe you an apology. I went back to some old threads last preseason to quote some more of your overly pessimistic Threads. I certainly found some.

However, after the 1st Jaguar game, I found a thread that I started entitled: Kubiak is an Idi*t. I guess even the optimists, such as myself, are prone to the occasional loss of hope and venture into cynicism and frustration. I did rebound a few days later.

I disagree with a lot of your conclusions but I do get why you're frustrated about that performance last weekend. I'd rather the thread been titled, "Shoot Amobi in the head and end all of our misery":gun:... or something more appropriate like that. But, you went a different direction.

Vinny
08-27-2009, 11:34 AM
SH, I kind of owe you an apology. I went back to some old threads last preseason to quote some more of your overly pessimistic Threads. I certainly found some.

However, after the 1st Jaguar game, I found a thread that I started entitled: Kubiak is an Idi*t. I guess even the optimists, such as myself, are prone to the occasional loss of hope and venture into cynicism and frustration. I did rebound a few days later.

I disagree with a lot of your conclusions but I do get why you're frustrated about that performance last weekend. I'd rather the thread been titled, "Shoot Amobi in the head and end all of our misery":gun:... or something more appropriate like that. But, you went a different direction.

combine this post with Ben's "I'm all growed up" moment (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1234793&postcount=84) and the synergy is making me want to burst out in a lively version of Kumbaya. Excuse me, I'm a little choked up right now.

Second Honeymoon
08-27-2009, 11:37 AM
SH, I kind of owe you an apology. I went back to some old threads last preseason to quote some more of your overly pessimistic Threads. I certainly found some.

However, after the 1st Jaguar game, I found a thread that I started entitled: Kubiak is an Idi*t. I guess even the optimists, such as myself, are prone to the occasional loss of hope and venture into cynicism and frustration. I did rebound a few days later.

I disagree with a lot of your conclusions but I do get why you're frustrated about that performance last weekend. I'd rather the thread been titled, "Shoot Amobi in the head and end all of our misery":gun:... or something more appropriate like that. But, you went a different direction.

you don't owe me an apology, nor does anyone. we are all fans and we all have our own ways of venting and praising. i sometimes bang the homer drum a bit loudly, and I'll try and refrain from that moving forward.

everyone here is a good fan, or we wouldn't be here.

i'm just sick and tired of poor defensive schemes and poor defensive performance. i think we all are and I just don't think promoting from within was the right move to change the mindset, scheme, and utlimately the performance of the team.

Texan_Bill
08-27-2009, 11:50 AM
Question here:

What NFL Defensive Coordinator got his first Defensive Coordinator position - already having Defensive Coordinator experience? :specnatz:

:mcnugget:

Specnatz
08-27-2009, 12:56 PM
Question here:

What NFL Defensive Coordinator got his first Defensive Coordinator position - already having Defensive Coordinator experience? :specnatz:

:mcnugget:

Is this like a Chuck Norris type of question? :jogger:

Tailgate
08-27-2009, 01:06 PM
Maybe after Monday night, we will be able to edit the title of this thread to say.... Fired Up About Frank Bush!

Second Honeymoon
08-27-2009, 01:08 PM
Question here:

What NFL Defensive Coordinator got his first Defensive Coordinator position - already having Defensive Coordinator experience? :specnatz:

:mcnugget:

yeah, thats true. but ask yourself how many assistants got a defensive coordinator position after helping run the defense that was so bad that the defensive coordinator got fired?

in most cases, an assistant has to be a part of a good and effective defense before he gets promoted or hired as a DC. our assistant-turned-DC has been a big part of a bad and ineffective defense the entire time he has been here. Someone mentioned Spagnulo the other day, Spags was a part of good defenses and had worked under top defensive coaches. I am all for giving guys a chance, but only if they show promise. Please tell me what Bush had shown amongst 2 years of almost total ineptitude on the defensive side of the ball.

Same scheme, no more Weaver but mostly same personnel. Why should we expect different results?

Second Honeymoon
08-27-2009, 01:15 PM
Maybe after Monday night, we will be able to edit the title of this thread to say.... Fired Up About Frank Bush!

being that its Week 3 of preseason on MNF, I am thinking the Texans may come to play this week. They have played pretty well at home at primetime lately.

It's going to be interesting to see how the Vikings and Favre react after some of these reports about locker room 'schisms'. I have no beef with Favre but he better watch out. The Texans could come in really ticked off after last Saturday's shelacking at the hands of the Saints. Can't wait to go.

fwiw - i have 2 tickets for sale to the MNF game v. the Vikings. $100 OBO gets you 2 field level (sec 134 row r) seats in corner of endzone and a orange parking pass.

*blatant plug*

Brisco_County
08-27-2009, 01:52 PM
Agreed.

Now let's start a "Fire Glover Quinn" thread instead.:voodoo:

Joke, BTW. I love Quinn.

Maybe after Monday night, we will be able to edit the title of this thread to say.... Fired Up About Frank Bush!

This wouldn't surprise me at all.

The odds are heavily in our favor that we'll look much better against the Vikings.

FirstTexansFan
08-27-2009, 02:03 PM
combine this post with Ben's "I'm all growed up" moment (http://www.texanstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1234793&postcount=84) and the synergy is making me want to burst out in a lively version of Kumbaya. Excuse me, I'm a little choked up right now.

Enough of all this getting along crap...I've put everyone on ignore.....AGAIN! :)

dalemurphy
08-27-2009, 03:26 PM
Please tell me what Bush had shown amongst 2 years of almost total ineptitude on the defensive side of the ball.

Same scheme, no more Weaver but mostly same personnel. Why should we expect different results?


Perhaps Bush was a descenting voice. Perhaps he was the driving force behind the few things that did work late in the season. We don't know.

"same scheme", I believe, simply means we are still running out of a 4-3 with similar alignments. Philosophically it is different- much more one gap, more Under defensive alignment. Probably (please God!) more disguise of blitz and also coverage. All of those things can change but players would still say "it's pretty much the same scheme".

HOU-TEX
08-27-2009, 03:36 PM
yeah, thats true. but ask yourself how many assistants got a defensive coordinator position after helping run the defense that was so bad that the defensive coordinator got fired?

in most cases, an assistant has to be a part of a good and effective defense before he gets promoted or hired as a DC. our assistant-turned-DC has been a big part of a bad and ineffective defense the entire time he has been here. Someone mentioned Spagnulo the other day, Spags was a part of good defenses and had worked under top defensive coaches. I am all for giving guys a chance, but only if they show promise. Please tell me what Bush had shown amongst 2 years of almost total ineptitude on the defensive side of the ball.

Same scheme, no more Weaver but mostly same personnel. Why should we expect different results?

So the couple seasons under Buddy Ryan, 4-5 seasons under Greg Robinson, 2-3 under Pendergast mean nothing now that Bush has spent time under Smith? Bush had spent 12+ seasons under those 3 and their defenses ranked below 10th maybe 4 seasons, 2 being in Arizona.

He was brought in after SmithDC was hired so Smith's scheme has jack to do with Bush. I don't have a clue how Bush does as a DC, but I'm not going to sit here and say he ain't worth diddly because he spent a couple seasons under Smith. His defense had a shitty outting last weekend and I voiced my concern but I'm not knee-jerkin to the extent of saying it was a bad hire, yet.

Thorn
08-27-2009, 04:28 PM
There is enough talent on this team to do better than 8-8 this year. If we don't, and you can't explain it away by injuries, then let's all agree to dog pile on the coaches. Until then, I'm giving them benefit of the doubt.

Again. * heavy sigh *

Hervoyel
08-27-2009, 06:08 PM
Is this like a Chuck Norris type of question? :jogger:

Chuck Norris could coordinate all 32 defenses in the NFL at the same time and it would result in a week where not one single offense was able to score a point. All of the games would be decided on a mix of interception returns for TD's, fumble returns for TD's and safeties.

The following weeks games would all be cancelled because no team could field an intact offense.

Texan_Bill
08-27-2009, 06:12 PM
Chuck Norris could coordinate all 32 defenses in the NFL at the same time and it would result in a week where not one single offense was able to score a point. All of the games would be decided on a mix of interception returns for TD's, fumble returns for TD's and safeties.

The following weeks games would all be cancelled because no team could field an intact offense.

lol: Nice Herv!!!

Second Honeymoon
09-13-2009, 05:33 PM
Since I already started this thread, I may as well bump it.

Bush is what we thought he was....and Gary could not have coached a worse game.

Flatlining Gary's act is getting old. The only good thing I saw is that Cushing and Barwin got some playing time.

Kubiak and all his Denver scrub coaches can all get the hell out of here.

HIRE COWHER

Silver Oak
09-13-2009, 05:38 PM
Since I already started this thread, I may as well bump it.

Bush is what we thought he was....and Gary could not have coached a worse game.

Flatlining Gary's act is getting old. The only good thing I saw is that Cushing and Barwin got some playing time.

Kubiak and all his Denver scrub coaches can all get the hell out of here.

HIRE COWHER

(A)-he is still retired
(B)-would be hard to assemble a staff in the second week of the season
(C)-we need realistic answers, not pie-in-the-sky crap

Second Honeymoon
09-13-2009, 05:43 PM
(A)-he is still retired
(B)-would be hard to assemble a staff in the second week of the season
(C)-we need realistic answers, not pie-in-the-sky crap

HIRE COWHER is not unrealistic. I am not talking about hiring him to coach next week, but Kubiak sucks and its now even plainly clear to even the biggest Texans homers.

sorry that me wanting improvement and the best available candidates is pie-in-the-sky

i dont care who we get but this good ole boy act by Kubiak is making me sick

he is a flatliner and he always will be

LonerATO
09-13-2009, 05:44 PM
Say we get Cowher then what? We have to sit through a few more years as we would have to retool a bunch of the roster, which means old vets and fa's. Im not trying to defend Kubes here, but I just dont know if I can sit through his horrible coaching or another few retooling years. I will say this KC's D looked like crap in the preseason and looked good today against the Raven's. I know KC picked up a ton of fa's and vets to fill its switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

Silver Oak
09-13-2009, 05:56 PM
sorry that me wanting improvement and the best available candidates is pie-in-the-sky



well, we both want improvement then, but who out there is a better coach that's available? our only difference is that you have had a hardon for firing Kubiak for awhile now, and I have seen improvement each season.

DexmanC
09-13-2009, 06:02 PM
I've seen this team bounce back after playing like bullshit.
Last year, they started 3-7, and went 5-1 to finish 8-8.
This year, if they want to make the playoffs, they'd BETTER
start no WORSE than 6-4.

awtysst
09-13-2009, 06:23 PM
I've seen this team bounce back after playing like bullshit.
Last year, they started 3-7, and went 5-1 to finish 8-8.
This year, if they want to make the playoffs, they'd BETTER
start no WORSE than 6-4.

"Let me start out saying this: Do NOT blame that game on the defense...That was a disgraceful performance. ... We gave it away. We gave them the frigging game. In my opinion, that sucked...

...Horrible. Just horrible. Horrible...

Playoffs? Don't talk about playoffs. Are you kidding me? Playoffs? I'm just hoping we can win a game!"

http://msp73.photobucket.com/albums/i201/aykis16/playoffs.jpg

Specnatz
09-13-2009, 07:06 PM
Since I already started this thread, I may as well bump it.

Bush is what we thought he was....and Gary could not have coached a worse game.

Flatlining Gary's act is getting old. The only good thing I saw is that Cushing and Barwin got some playing time.

Kubiak and all his Denver scrub coaches can all get the hell out of here.

HIRE COWHER

You have zero F'n football IQ, never have and never will.

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 10:36 AM
You have zero F'n football IQ, never have and never will.

go kiss your plastic blow up Kubiak doll, spec. i have forgotten more about football than you will ever know.

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 10:38 AM
well, we both want improvement then, but who out there is a better coach that's available? our only difference is that you have had a hardon for firing Kubiak for awhile now, and I have seen improvement each season.

how about this year, Silver Oak. you seen improvement...is going from 8-8 to 8-8 improvement...

some guys like Spec, just hate it when they are proven to be clueless and others with far more insight and objectivity are proven time and time again to be correct in their thinking. You aren't like spec, SO. Kubiak is what he is....a flatlining head coach who is outcoached almost weekly.

steelbtexan
09-14-2009, 11:26 AM
Frank Bush shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Bush was an asst. coach on some of the worst defenses I've ever seen.

Instead of firing Bush they promoted him to DC. Great move Kubes.

You 've got the same people running the defense as last year minus Dick Smith and people are expecting this defense to improve. It's not going to happen.

Second Honeymoon
09-14-2009, 11:33 AM
Frank Bush shouldn't have been hired in the first place.

Bush was an asst. coach on some of the worst defenses I've ever seen.

Instead of firing Bush they promoted him to DC. Great move Kubes.

You 've got the same people running the defense as last year minus Dick Smith and people are expecting this defense to improve. It's not going to happen.

exactly. what made anyone think any of this would change? Antonio Smith's hiring? That guy was inviso ala Weaver for a lot of the game. Is it his fault or the schemes? I don't know but the defense was horrible on 3rd down....yet again.

BigBull17
09-14-2009, 12:02 PM
Say we get Cowher then what? We have to sit through a few more years as we would have to retool a bunch of the roster, which means old vets and fa's. Im not trying to defend Kubes here, but I just dont know if I can sit through his horrible coaching or another few retooling years. I will say this KC's D looked like crap in the preseason and looked good today against the Raven's. I know KC picked up a ton of fa's and vets to fill its switch from a 4-3 to a 3-4.

Or sit here for three more years watching a bad team be built? Teams have shown you can do some things in a year, just not us.

Ryan
09-20-2009, 01:58 PM
Where's the pink soap?

Second Honeymoon
09-20-2009, 02:04 PM
Where's the pink soap?

Bush sucks so bad, I can't even believe it. That play where no one covered Johnson made me embarassed to be a Texans fan. After such brilliance by Andre, the defense follows that up with an utterly stupid and moronic move.

And memo to Kubiak, God gave you 3 timeouts a half and it doesn't cost you any points to call a timeout. I am convinced that Kubiak must go and sooner rather than later. This team lacks any direction and oversight. Just basic fundamentals...

We have a few nice assistants but as a whole our coaching staff is pathetic

Specnatz
09-20-2009, 02:14 PM
Bush sucks so bad, I can't even believe it. That play where no one covered Johnson made me embarassed to be a Texans fan. After such brilliance by Andre, the defense follows that up with an utterly stupid and moronic move.

And memo to Kubiak, God gave you 3 timeouts a half and it doesn't cost you any points to call a timeout. I am convinced that Kubiak must go and sooner rather than later. This team lacks any direction and oversight. Just basic fundamentals...

We have a few nice assistants but as a whole our coaching staff is pathetic

The players, not bush were responsible for that blown coverage. DeMecco, the defensive leader should have recognized it and called timeout. As far as Kubiak calling or not calling a timeout we don't know if he tried the camera never showed him, you are making an assumption. This must be the football knowledge you said you have forgotten about. I would love to know if he saw it or not so I can make my comments based off of that.

Are you going to post about the Int by Wilson because that was a good play by the D so I doubt you will talk about it.

Mr teX
09-20-2009, 04:42 PM
The players, not bush were responsible for that blown coverage. DeMecco, the defensive leader should have recognized it and called timeout. As far as Kubiak calling or not calling a timeout we don't know if he tried the camera never showed him, you are making an assumption. This must be the football knowledge you said you have forgotten about. I would love to know if he saw it or not so I can make my comments based off of that.

Are you going to post about the Int by Wilson because that was a good play by the D so I doubt you will talk about it.

Don't waste your time Spec...every TD we gave up today was on the people on the field...n not the D-coordinator.

Ckw
09-20-2009, 04:48 PM
All I can say is I am much happier with the way we ran our defense today than I ever was under Dick Smith. Yes, we gave up some big plays and definitely have got to work on that. But it was enjoyable watching the way the guys attacked the ball, blitzed quite a bit, and just seemed to play balls to the wall. We'll see next week if this was a fluke or not.

Wolf
09-20-2009, 04:51 PM
our defense needs to play with some "controlled chaos" .. this team played a lot better in the 2nd half of the game and recognizing the screens but seems like last year, four man rush, we still don't get any pressure

Carr Bombed
09-27-2009, 03:31 PM
I'm sorry, but this guy is got to go......he doesn't know what the **** he's doing out there.

And Kubiak, you're dumbass decision to hold promote a guy who was part of the staff that gave you one of the league's worst defenses over the past 3 years is going to get your ass fired as well.

Who the hell promotes a assistant off of the worst defense in the league???? Seriously

TheIronDuke
09-27-2009, 03:50 PM
Who the hell promotes a assistant off of the worst defense in the league???? Seriously

Hey, they weren't the worst in the league.

WesmanTexanfan
09-27-2009, 03:52 PM
see FIRE kubiak thread....

Hervoyel
09-27-2009, 03:55 PM
The Texans chose to hire him (Bush). When they were absolutely and without any semblance of a doubt in dire need of correcting their defensive problems they did not go seek out the services of an accomplished defensive mind with an established identity and a demonstrably effective scheme. Instead they* chose to hire a friend. They hired a guy they knew and thought was ready to step up to the next level. They then went out and got him some more help in the form of Antoine Smith, Cushing and Barwin.

Frank Bush's defense is shit. It sucks as much as Richard Smith's defense sucked. It can't get off the field. It can't stop anybody. They can't tackle, they don't communicate, and they can't focus. Mental mistakes rule the day and we have done what I literally did not think was possible with these players. We've regressed from the stooges that Richard Smith coached into the coma patients that Frank Bush coaches. The only thing about last weeks game in Tennessee that meant anything was the obscene yardage and point production of the Titans. That was real. Everything else about this team turning a corner and finally reaching some new level of play was all bullshit. They played tough because they were humiliated by the Jets.

If you have to get humiliated the week before to play like you're capable then you're a perennial 8-8 team. If the only time you step up and act like you got a pair is right after someone kicks you in them then you might as well not have any at all.

Actually I am not displeased at all with the offense today. With Studdard taking Pitts place and this being the Jaguars who always play us tough I'm happy with 24 points so far. I understand the problems we're dealing with on that side of the ball. The defense though, those guys are worthless with a handful of exceptions and those exceptions would be good players no matter where they played. Fred Bennett is easily one of the most worthless football players I've ever watched pretend to play the game. He can't cover anybody and he can't tackle anybody. That limp attempt at bring down Jones-Drew during the screen to the right side in the third quarter sent me away from my television in disgust.

Frank Bush is the hire that's going to send Gary Kubiak back to his first, best career as somebody else's offensive coordinator. I can't believe that with his head coaching career on the line that ****ing Butthead impersonator hired Frank Bush to save his butt. What a joke. Pity it's on US again.

*By "they" I mean primarily Gary Kubiak but I concede that his decisions receive the blessings of Rick Smith and Bob McNair.

Carr Bombed
09-27-2009, 04:09 PM
Hey, they weren't the worst in the league.

Over the last 3 seasons........yes they were. They were consistently at the bottom

mussop
09-27-2009, 04:10 PM
Bring back Richard Smith!

SteveSlaton20
09-27-2009, 04:14 PM
fire frank bush?

we played against the best rb's in the league...
thomas jones, leon washington
chris johnson
mjd

yeah they do give up too many yards, big plays, and 3rd downs, but 3 weeks of football doesnt mean shit.

TheIronDuke
09-27-2009, 04:15 PM
Over the last 3 seasons........yes they were. They were consistently at the bottom

I was just jokin' with you. Yes, they were in the bottom and now we're in dead last rock bottom.

swtbound07
09-27-2009, 04:16 PM
fire frank bush?

we played against the best rb's in the league...
thomas jones, leon washington
chris johnson
mjd

yeah they do give up too many yards, big plays, and 3rd downs, but 3 weeks of football doesnt mean shit.

go away.

How many 60+ yard tds do you want to waqtch on defense?

Yeah, they give up 30 points a game and 500 yards of offense, and yeah they suck at every facet of defense, and yeah they cost us games but lets not hold that against them. Lets pretend like everythings rosy and that our defense doesn't suck.

Wolf
09-27-2009, 04:21 PM
to me 3 weeks do mean something.. it is one game less than a 1/4 of a season.. this defense has no pass rush still and give up at least 1 or 2 20+ yards on a rush.

I am not big on "firing" threads early in the season, but I have not seen any overall improvement on this defense.. no way this team is a playoff team and really not sure if this team is 8-8 team..

Offensively.. this team is good ... Defensively.. not being able to make stops, no pass rush, (esp up the middle) ,blitzing is predictable

we have given up 24,31,31 points in three games so far.. yikes

ChrisG
09-27-2009, 04:23 PM
i dont kno if i blame bush this week...bennett was the major problem he was HORRIBLE at tackling...every play he was near the player literally slipped through his tackle...we would have had sum major stops if not for fred

Thorn
09-27-2009, 04:23 PM
The defense has more talent, but yet is worse than last year. How in the hell does that happen?

TheIronDuke
09-27-2009, 04:23 PM
Is it really possible that we have one pick and one sack in three freaking games? That's just godawful.

rollinstone18
09-27-2009, 04:23 PM
i can't call for bush to be fired yet. i thought our players were in positiion to make plays and necessary stops (for the jags game). they whiffed tackles, missed assignments and over pursued. Bennett is pretty awful and our interchangeable SS is slow and does not have the smarts to start.

Wolf
09-27-2009, 04:26 PM
The defense has more talent, but yet is worse than last year. How in the hell does that happen?

and we were supposed to simplify things :gun:
(I think that was said at the beginning of the year)

Wolf
09-27-2009, 04:36 PM
I don't want Kubiak at the podium today.. I want to see Frank Bush up there answering some damn questions

bckey
09-27-2009, 04:44 PM
The Texans chose to hire him (Bush). When they were absolutely and without any semblance of a doubt in dire need of correcting their defensive problems they did not go seek out the services of an accomplished defensive mind with an established identity and a demonstrably effective scheme. Instead they* chose to hire a friend. They hired a guy they knew and thought was ready to step up to the next level. They then went out and got him some more help in the form of Antoine Smith, Cushing and Barwin.

Frank Bush's defense is shit. It sucks as much as Richard Smith's defense sucked. It can't get off the field. It can't stop anybody. They can't tackle, they don't communicate, and they can't focus. Mental mistakes rule the day and we have done what I literally did not think was possible with these players. We've regressed from the stooges that Richard Smith coached into the coma patients that Frank Bush coaches. The only thing about last weeks game in Tennessee that meant anything was the obscene yardage and point production of the Titans. That was real. Everything else about this team turning a corner and finally reaching some new level of play was all bullshit. They played tough because they were humiliated by the Jets.

If you have to get humiliated the week before to play like you're capable then you're a perennial 8-8 team. If the only time you step up and act like you got a pair is right after someone kicks you in them then you might as well not have any at all.

Actually I am not displeased at all with the offense today. With Studdard taking Pitts place and this being the Jaguars who always play us tough I'm happy with 24 points so far. I understand the problems we're dealing with on that side of the ball. The defense though, those guys are worthless with a handful of exceptions and those exceptions would be good players no matter where they played. Fred Bennett is easily one of the most worthless football players I've ever watched pretend to play the game. He can't cover anybody and he can't tackle anybody. That limp attempt at bring down Jones-Drew during the screen to the right side in the third quarter sent me away from my television in disgust.

Frank Bush is the hire that's going to send Gary Kubiak back to his first, best career as somebody else's offensive coordinator. I can't believe that with his head coaching career on the line that ****ing Butthead impersonator hired Frank Bush to save his butt. What a joke. Pity it's on US again.

*By "they" I mean primarily Gary Kubiak but I concede that his decisions receive the blessings of Rick Smith and Bob McNair.

Great post Herv and I feel the same. I'm just so tired of losing.

bckey
09-27-2009, 04:45 PM
i can't call for bush to be fired yet. i thought our players were in positiion to make plays and necessary stops (for the jags game). they whiffed tackles, missed assignments and over pursued. Bennett is pretty awful and our interchangeable SS is slow and does not have the smarts to start.

I'm sorry but that is still on Bush. And I didn't think anyone could do a worse job than Richard Smith.

Mr teX
09-27-2009, 04:46 PM
i can't call for bush to be fired yet. i thought our players were in positiion to make plays and necessary stops (for the jags game). they whiffed tackles, missed assignments and over pursued. Bennett is pretty awful and our interchangeable SS is slow and does not have the smarts to start.

Yep...

People can say what they want about Dunta & his tackling, but it's pretty clear who offenses are targeting when they throw the ball & it ain't Dunta. Nearly every completion gerrard had today came against Bennett.

l

Hervoyel
09-27-2009, 04:56 PM
i can't call for bush to be fired yet. i thought our players were in positiion to make plays and necessary stops (for the jags game). they whiffed tackles, missed assignments and over pursued. Bennett is pretty awful and our interchangeable SS is slow and does not have the smarts to start.


The DC puts in the "system", "scheme", whatever and teaches it to the players. Now you say that the players are in a position to make plays and just somehow don't make them and so that's on them but that's not the whole story.

The DC and all his coaches (don't they outnumber the players by now?) are responsible for making sure these guys know how to tackle. This is basic stuff here. They don't practice tackling? They don't practice their assignments?

Honestly our secondary is worthless. Not one of those guys back there is worth what we're paying them and Dunta is just as much a piece of shit as the rest of them. He's a tackle missing, pass interfering, overpaid stooge who I can't wait to see off this team. All he does is make a couple of hits every game, blow a lot of tackles, give up a few big plays, and then talk a lot of crap after it's over. That he's our best DB at the moment isn't a credit to Dunta. It's an indictment of everyone else associated with drafting, signing, coaching, or playing in our secondary.

That they suck doesn't get Bush off of the hook. It just means he doesn't belong on there by himself. We don't address the problem and when we do we are apparently back to our old drafting ways. Since 2006 we've drafted 3 safeties and 4 cornerbacks and to a man they all suck. The myth of our new regime drafting well is starting to unravel a bit don't you guys think?

I digress though. Having that unit ready to play is Frank Bush's responsibility and they're not failing to grasp the complex nuances of a complicated defense. They're forgetting how to tackle. If Frank Bush can't take average to below average NFL players and instill in them a desire and focus on something as basic as tackling then I want him gone because he's a lousy defensive coach.

ChrisG
09-27-2009, 07:22 PM
most of the time a players were in the right position or should have been (on that big run), its our crappy defensive players playing like sh*t

bennett played horrible, missed almost every tackle he attempted (not an exaggeration) and busing missed alot to/was out of position. Bush had them in the right spot but OUR PLAYERS CRAPPED OUT

utahmark
09-27-2009, 07:27 PM
has anyone ever been fired after 3 games? not saying he shouldn't, just that he won't. we have 13 more games of this.

Honoring Earl 34
09-27-2009, 07:28 PM
The Texans chose to hire him (Bush). When they were absolutely and without any semblance of a doubt in dire need of correcting their defensive problems they did not go seek out the services of an accomplished defensive mind with an established identity and a demonstrably effective scheme. Instead they* chose to hire a friend. They hired a guy they knew and thought was ready to step up to the next level. They then went out and got him some more help in the form of Antoine Smith, Cushing and Barwin.

Frank Bush's defense is shit. It sucks as much as Richard Smith's defense sucked. It can't get off the field. It can't stop anybody. They can't tackle, they don't communicate, and they can't focus. Mental mistakes rule the day and we have done what I literally did not think was possible with these players. We've regressed from the stooges that Richard Smith coached into the coma patients that Frank Bush coaches. The only thing about last weeks game in Tennessee that meant anything was the obscene yardage and point production of the Titans. That was real. Everything else about this team turning a corner and finally reaching some new level of play was all bullshit. They played tough because they were humiliated by the Jets.

If you have to get humiliated the week before to play like you're capable then you're a perennial 8-8 team. If the only time you step up and act like you got a pair is right after someone kicks you in them then you might as well not have any at all.

Actually I am not displeased at all with the offense today. With Studdard taking Pitts place and this being the Jaguars who always play us tough I'm happy with 24 points so far. I understand the problems we're dealing with on that side of the ball. The defense though, those guys are worthless with a handful of exceptions and those exceptions would be good players no matter where they played. Fred Bennett is easily one of the most worthless football players I've ever watched pretend to play the game. He can't cover anybody and he can't tackle anybody. That limp attempt at bring down Jones-Drew during the screen to the right side in the third quarter sent me away from my television in disgust.

Frank Bush is the hire that's going to send Gary Kubiak back to his first, best career as somebody else's offensive coordinator. I can't believe that with his head coaching career on the line that ****ing Butthead impersonator hired Frank Bush to save his butt. What a joke. Pity it's on US again.

*By "they" I mean primarily Gary Kubiak but I concede that his decisions receive the blessings of Rick Smith and Bob McNair.

I agree , you hire OC/DC with no experience , you put your head on the chopping block . In layman's terms ... it all rolls down hill .

thunderkyss
09-27-2009, 07:42 PM
go away.

How many 60+ yard tds do you want to waqtch on defense?

Yeah, they give up 30 points a game and 500 yards of offense, and yeah they suck at every facet of defense, and yeah they cost us games but lets not hold that against them. Lets pretend like everythings rosy and that our defense doesn't suck.

You know.. I sat in the stands for 180 minutes today. I cheered... I booed... I jumped up & down.... overall, I had a good time. There were some things I saw on the field that I liked. Lots of things that I didn't.

But what upsets me most right now, is not that we lost the game. But the reaction from the fans & the media.

Last week, everybody was on the bandwagon, talking about heart & all that crap. But we played the exact same way against the Jets the week before, when we were "unprepared" & headed for a coaching change in the off-season. The only exception, was that our QB, Offensive Coordinator, or Head Coach were too timid to test the Jets Secondary (something we'll probably fail to do next week against the Raiders). But we couldn't run the ball, and we gave up huge plays on defense against the ground game. & when we forced the QB to improvise, our "pay me first" secondary didn't show up.

Same thing this week. Only the running game seemed to open up a little... Slaton ended the day averaging 6.3 ypc.

Defensively, same thing. except we didn't allow any runs over 62 yards. We are pretty bad defensively, I'm not going to deny that. But at no time did I think we were out of this game. In the last 2 minutes of the game, I'm still in my seat, because I think we can get a bad call overturned.

My point, is if we get that touchdown, if we make the two point conversion, or win in overtime..... we'd be talking about the heart our team has. & about what a good game that was.

swtbound07, you may have been one of the few who was still calling for Bush to be fired last week, I don't know. But generally speaking, the whole team won a reprieve last week with the general fans & media.

I understand this is year 8. I understand it's 4 years of Kubiak. I understand it looks like the same old same old.

But what does it mean to support a team?

I know we've got issues on defense. You know we've got issues on defense. I'm sure the Texans know we've got issues on defense, & I know they are working on it.

Did anyone expect us to get this fixed this week? I know the Jags have been having issues, but that is MJD, and we are who we are.

That's what I get out of a "Fire Frank Bush" thread.

Let Frank Bush know we're upset...... I'm good with that. Let Frank Bush know we expect better... I agree.

But I'm just not understanding what we're expecting to see. from one week to the next.

For me, the most disappointing thing about the game, was to lose it on a fumble at the goal line from a guy that half the board was begging to get the start, the most carries.

I understand it's not a good thing when our defense allows a sputtering offense to dictate what they're going to do.

But I'd much rather see them play this style of defense, and get better at it, than to watch them revert to the piss poor Richard Smith bend over and take it defense that we've seen the last two years.

I'm hoping Kubiak & Bush have the gnads to stay the course & work on getting better, and not cave to the "pressure" I'm sure they are feeling. Most likely they'll lose their jobs at the end of the season. If it were me, I'd rather loose it trying to get better (what a coach is supposed to do), instead of trying not to get worse (which IMHO is what we've been doing at least for the last 6 years).

But that's just me.

Heath Shuler
09-27-2009, 07:45 PM
You know.. I sat in the stands for 90 minutes today.

90 minutes??

bckey
09-27-2009, 08:08 PM
You know.. I sat in the stands for 180 minutes today. I cheered... I booed... I jumped up & down.... overall, I had a good time. There were some things I saw on the field that I liked. Lots of things that I didn't.

But what upsets me most right now, is not that we lost the game. But the reaction from the fans & the media.

Last week, everybody was on the bandwagon, talking about heart & all that crap. But we played the exact same way against the Jets the week before, when we were "unprepared" & headed for a coaching change in the off-season. The only exception, was that our QB, Offensive Coordinator, or Head Coach were too timid to test the Jets Secondary (something we'll probably fail to do next week against the Raiders). But we couldn't run the ball, and we gave up huge plays on defense against the ground game. & when we forced the QB to improvise, our "pay me first" secondary didn't show up.

Same thing this week. Only the running game seemed to open up a little... Slaton ended the day averaging 6.3 ypc.

Defensively, same thing. except we didn't allow any runs over 62 yards. We are pretty bad defensively, I'm not going to deny that. But at no time did I think we were out of this game. In the last 2 minutes of the game, I'm still in my seat, because I think we can get a bad call overturned.

My point, is if we get that touchdown, if we make the two point conversion, or win in overtime..... we'd be talking about the heart our team has. & about what a good game that was.

swtbound07, you may have been one of the few who was still calling for Bush to be fired last week, I don't know. But generally speaking, the whole team won a reprieve last week with the general fans & media.

I understand this is year 8. I understand it's 4 years of Kubiak. I understand it looks like the same old same old.

But what does it mean to support a team?

I know we've got issues on defense. You know we've got issues on defense. I'm sure the Texans know we've got issues on defense, & I know they are working on it.

Did anyone expect us to get this fixed this week? I know the Jags have been having issues, but that is MJD, and we are who we are.

That's what I get out of a "Fire Frank Bush" thread.

Let Frank Bush know we're upset...... I'm good with that. Let Frank Bush know we expect better... I agree.

But I'm just not understanding what we're expecting to see. from one week to the next.

For me, the most disappointing thing about the game, was to lose it on a fumble at the goal line from a guy that half the board was begging to get the start, the most carries.

I understand it's not a good thing when our defense allows a sputtering offense to dictate what they're going to do.

But I'd much rather see them play this style of defense, and get better at it, than to watch them revert to the piss poor Richard Smith bend over and take it defense that we've seen the last two years.

I'm hoping Kubiak & Bush have the gnads to stay the course & work on getting better, and not cave to the "pressure" I'm sure they are feeling. Most likely they'll lose their jobs at the end of the season. If it were me, I'd rather loose it trying to get better (what a coach is supposed to do), instead of trying not to get worse (which IMHO is what we've been doing at least for the last 6 years).

But that's just me.

Actually Smith's defense was better than this one so far. How many 3rd and longs did we give up today? One of the crappiest teams in the NFL had their way with us today. We have lost our first 2 home games so far. By my calculations we have to win out at home to have a chance at the playoffs. We suck as a road team. Cincy is looking tougher and tougher. San Fran will tear us apart. Jamarcus Russell will look like a pro bowler against us. Face it Thunder the Texans defense is pathetic. We have added better players but somehow Bush can't put it all together. It looks like an undiciplined mess. A complete embarrassment.

thunderkyss
09-27-2009, 09:00 PM
Actually Smith's defense was better than this one so far.

We averaged over 30 points against us over the first six games last season.

& I think in Richard Smiths first year, when we played Philly, then Indy, then Washington, or something like that, we gave up over 400 yards a game.

Hervoyel
09-27-2009, 09:23 PM
You know.. I sat in the stands for 180 minutes today. I cheered... I booed... I jumped up & down.... overall, I had a good time. There were some things I saw on the field that I liked. Lots of things that I didn't.

But what upsets me most right now, is not that we lost the game. But the reaction from the fans & the media.

Many of the fans (myself included) are done waiting for this to change. The reaction from the fans is entirely appropriate in my opinion. We have better players (supposedly), a better DC (supposedly), and a better philosophy (supposedly) and we're seeing worse results than we did the season prior to this. We've been watching the defense suck since 2002. We've been watching Gary Kubiak's defense suck since the day he arrived and every year we're told that this is going to get straightened out "just around the corner". We're always "a player or two away" from being able to do what the coaches want or we "just need time to gel". You know, I'm sick of waiting for that while other teams go from bad to good inside the time it takes Gary Kubiak to figure out which former co-worker, employers son, employees son, or coach he once shared a ham sandwich with in Denver to hire next. He didn't even TRY to bring an established DC in here! He just went back to his little black book of friends (who conveniently happened to be on staff this time) and selected Frank Bush. Time's up man. 3 years to fix a defense is a year and half too long when someone who actually knows what they're doing is involved. **** Frank Bush and **** Gary Kubiak. They're getting paid to assemble this shit. We're paying money to have to watch it.

Last week, everybody was on the bandwagon, talking about heart & all that crap. But we played the exact same way against the Jets the week before, when we were "unprepared" & headed for a coaching change in the off-season. The only exception, was that our QB, Offensive Coordinator, or Head Coach were too timid to test the Jets Secondary (something we'll probably fail to do next week against the Raiders). But we couldn't run the ball, and we gave up huge plays on defense against the ground game. & when we forced the QB to improvise, our "pay me first" secondary didn't show up.

Last week I said "If they come home and suck against Jacksonville then this win means nothing" and I was right. I'm still right where I was the week before after the Jets game.

Same thing this week. Only the running game seemed to open up a little... Slaton ended the day averaging 6.3 ypc.

Defensively, same thing. except we didn't allow any runs over 62 yards. We are pretty bad defensively, I'm not going to deny that. But at no time did I think we were out of this game. In the last 2 minutes of the game, I'm still in my seat, because I think we can get a bad call overturned.

I spent most of the last quarter of this game on the computer and away from the television. I'm telling you I really can't watch them "play" anymore. I'm almost completely incapable of sitting through a Texans game. I get so mad that I'm afraid I'm going to throw a beer through my TV. My wife won't stay at home during a game. She finds something else to do somewhere else. That's my anger management problem but I watched the Cougars last night without any of these problems. I watched the LSU game on Saturday with the same calm. It's the Texans and their shitty defense that lets everyone go up and down the field on them that pisses me off so much. It's the Texans and their incompetence when the game is on the line that I'm learning to hate. At no time once I'd seen a series or two did I think seriously that the Texans would find a way to beat the Jaguars. That's where I'm coming from. The instant that Gary made the challenge I knew it was doomed to failure because this is the Texans and that's what they do.

My point, is if we get that touchdown, if we make the two point conversion, or win in overtime..... we'd be talking about the heart our team has. & about what a good game that was.

My point is we NEVER "get that touchdown". We seemingly always lose that call, throw that interception, fumble that ball, or blow that assignment and give up the big run or pass.

swtbound07, you may have been one of the few who was still calling for Bush to be fired last week, I don't know. But generally speaking, the whole team won a reprieve last week with the general fans & media.

I understand this is year 8. I understand it's 4 years of Kubiak. I understand it looks like the same old same old.

swt gets it because this IS year 8 and this IS 4 years of Kubiak.

But what does it mean to support a team?

We finally get to the "What kind of fan are you really?" question. How long do you stay in a bad marriage? How long do you keep handing over the cash without seeing any return on your investment? I'm not sure really. I guess it's different for every individual. There are different levels of investment at first. Later when it becomes obvious what you're looking at I think there are different levels of stupidity. I spot the Texans the first 2-3 years of their existence because I don't think you can ask much of an expansion team but we're in year 8 and they are worse on defense with more talent than they were in 2002. In fact the 2002 defense is the best one we've ever fielded.

I think anyone who expects positive results from the brain trust that gave you this defense today is a fool. It's not going to happen. These coaches don't know how to make them into a team. They don't know how to bring them together. They're a collection of players, some talented and some lousy and nobody is playing over his head out there. This is coaching with one notable exception. The secondary has been ignored for so long that past Dunta and Reeves there's not a player back there that belongs in the NFL.

I know we've got issues on defense. You know we've got issues on defense. I'm sure the Texans know we've got issues on defense, & I know they are working on it.

They've known and been working on it for going on 4 years. Anyone still waiting for a positive result, well good luck with that.

Did anyone expect us to get this fixed this week? I know the Jags have been having issues, but that is MJD, and we are who we are.

That's what I get out of a "Fire Frank Bush" thread.

Let Frank Bush know we're upset...... I'm good with that. Let Frank Bush know we expect better... I agree.

But I'm just not understanding what we're expecting to see. from one week to the next.

They told us this team had "turned a corner" remember? They were something different now and playing like they'd never played before. Sure, I expected it to be fixed this week. I expected them to play better than they did the week before. I expected them to TACKLE! Obviously I was asking for too damned much. Look, you're asking us what we expected to change from week to week and I'm telling you that we see them make plays on defense. They tackle guys for a loss all the time. Then, inexplicably they give up monster runs. They hold on first and second down and then they give up third down like they meant to do it the whole time. Which one is it? Are they so bad that they can't stop anybody or are they so good that they're almost able to stop everybody? Who are the guys I see out there making plays on first and second down most of the time?

Why do those guys disappear on third down? WHY? I WANT TO KNOW WHERE THEY ****ING GO? I WANT TO KNOW WHY THEY CAN'T STOP ANYBODY ON 3RD DOWN?

Who's coaching them? Who's directing them? They don't go from being talented to being chumps between downs. What's happening on 3rd down? Are they not capable of keeping their attention on an offense for three plays in a row?

For me, the most disappointing thing about the game, was to lose it on a fumble at the goal line from a guy that half the board was begging to get the start, the most carries.

I understand it's not a good thing when our defense allows a sputtering offense to dictate what they're going to do.

But I'd much rather see them play this style of defense, and get better at it, than to watch them revert to the piss poor Richard Smith bend over and take it defense that we've seen the last two years.

I'm hoping Kubiak & Bush have the gnads to stay the course & work on getting better, and not cave to the "pressure" I'm sure they are feeling. Most likely they'll lose their jobs at the end of the season. If it were me, I'd rather loose it trying to get better (what a coach is supposed to do), instead of trying not to get worse (which IMHO is what we've been doing at least for the last 6 years).

But that's just me.

We're looking at the piss poor Richard Smith bend but don't break defense man. It has a different label on it and a new spokesperson but it's the same damned mess I've been looking at for three years. I hope they stay the course too because they will be fired at the end of the year when this shit comes skreeching into the station under .500 because they couldn't stop anyone and then we'll get our "every four year" crapshoot to see if Bob McNair has figured out how to be an owner yet.

This is 2005 all over again. Who are we rooting for in this years version of the "Bush Bowl"?

bckey
09-27-2009, 09:27 PM
We averaged over 30 points against us over the first six games last season.

& I think in Richard Smiths first year, when we played Philly, then Indy, then Washington, or something like that, we gave up over 400 yards a game.

Maybe so but we haven't played any really good teams offensively yet this season and we are letting these teams score big points on us. Throw in the fact that we have given up really big td runs EVERY game even going back to preseason with NO and Minnesota.

Second Honeymoon
09-27-2009, 09:31 PM
Bush still sucks. Nothing to see here. Nothing changed.

Embarassing play again by the defense

GP
09-27-2009, 09:36 PM
Who are we rooting for in this years version of the "Bush Bowl"?

I am no UT fan, so let me make that clear right now.

And I am not blaming Schaub for this mess.

But I'm rooting for Colt McCoy because I think he's a leader. I'm a Tech fan for life, and when I saw him in the post-game news conference after last year's Tech game...all banged up with that nasty-looking chin...I stood up and literally saluted that guy while he spoke.

Had his WRs caught the ball and ran decisive routes in the first half of that game, he's looking at playing for the title.

The guy has "it," IMO. He's got the name ("Colt McCoy," I mean seriously...the dude's name is Colt McCoy and he's a QB. A good one.).

We need to plan for a future, younger QB. He's it, IMO.

Wolf
09-27-2009, 09:37 PM
as I posted on another thread


if I counted everything right from NFL.com


drives and scoring drives against the defense
jets 12 drives with 4 Scores (1 drive ended the half, 1 ended the game)
Titans 13 drives with 5 scores (none ended game/half) we had 2 TO
jags 11 drives with 5 scores (1 drive ended half, 1 ended game and 1 TO)

so if i counted correctly

we have 36 drives with 14 scores (2 ended half, 2 ended game 3 TO)


3rd /4th down percentages

jets 10/18 on 3rd, 2/2 on 4th
Titans 5/16 on 3rd ,2/2 on 4th
Jags 5/11 on 3rd ,1/1 on 4th

totals so far

20/45 on 3rd ,5/5 on 4th

add in total yards given up
jets 462
titans 420
jags 398

Ugly


I need an ice pack on my groin

hradhak
09-27-2009, 09:47 PM
as I posted on another thread


if I counted everything right from NFL.com


drives and scoring drives against the defense
jets 12 drives with 4 Scores (1 drive ended the half, 1 ended the game)
Titans 13 drives with 5 scores (none ended game/half) we had 2 TO
jags 11 drives with 5 scores (1 drive ended half, 1 ended game and 1 TO)

so if i counted correctly

we have 36 drives with 14 scores (2 ended half, 2 ended game 3 TO)


3rd /4th down percentages

jets 10/18 on 3rd, 2/2 on 4th
Titans 5/16 on 3rd ,2/2 on 4th
Jags 5/11 on 3rd ,1/1 on 4th

totals so far

20/45 on 3rd ,5/5 on 4th

add in total yards given up
jets 462
titans 420
jags 398

Ugly


I need an ice pack on my groin

That's fairly eye opening. None of these teams is known as a great offensive team really. It doesn't really bother me that we give up big plays only because we can't stop them from moving the ball with small bites or one big one play. To me, our offense can keep us in any game in the NFL, but until we get a defense that can put together some stops, we're going to be a .500 team at best

Wolf
09-27-2009, 09:59 PM
interesting quote on the jags part.. I don't know what Frank bush has done to the playbook but this is what the Jags did

Linebacker Quentin Groves said the Jaguars’ ability to add pressure was the result of a simplification of the playbook. During the first two games, the Jaguars struggled in adjusting to the club’s new 3-4 front.

“We had a lot of indecision, 'what-am-I-supposed-to-do-on-this-play’ stuff that slowed us down,” said Groves, who finished with four tackles, including one for lost yardage. “We shortened the playbook this week and it paid real big dividends. If you think fast, you can play fast.”


http://jacksonville.com/sports/football/jaguars/2009-09-27/story/del_rio_lights_fire_defense_responds


makes me wonder if our defense isn't responding and giving up gashing plays because we are "thinking" too much

just a brainstorm here

thunderkyss
09-27-2009, 10:20 PM
Many of the fans (myself included) are done waiting for this to change.

Wooo Saaaaaa.

Wooo Saaaaaa.

Let me tell how the game is going to play out next week.

We're going to give up 400 yards of offense.

We're not going to throw the ball to Andre Johnson.

We're going to lose the turnover battle.

Do not. I repeat, do not expect any of that to change not this week.

We may still end up winning the game. I don't know how, but that will be the fun part.

All I'm saying, is don't get frustrated when the things you know are going to happen happen. You knew last week was a fluke more than anything. You under-estimated the Jaguars, over-estimated Frank Bush (I don't know how you let that happen)

Frank Bush won't be fired over the next 6 days. I can't think of anyway he can fix all the problems he's got in that time either.

Better yet, go ahead & pick up Justin Fargus, Darren McFadden, or Michael Bush for your fantasy team, and start them next week.

steelbtexan
09-27-2009, 10:31 PM
go away.

How many 60+ yard tds do you want to waqtch on defense?

Yeah, they give up 30 points a game and 500 yards of offense, and yeah they suck at every facet of defense, and yeah they cost us games but lets not hold that against them. Lets pretend like everythings rosy and that our defense doesn't suck.

Repped

I"ve spent another 3 hrs at Reliant watching the SOS that I've been seeing the last 7 years.

WTF

wagonhed
09-27-2009, 10:42 PM
I had a nice 5 hour drive home with my brother today and the consensus was that Bush should have about 3 more games to demonstrate that he can bring our defense out of dead freaking last... after that, he needs to be fired.

It's stupefying and actually a bit nauseating that we are significantly worse than last year even after the personnel improvements we've made.

steelbtexan
09-27-2009, 10:43 PM
I'm sorry but that is still on Bush. And I didn't think anyone could do a worse job than Richard Smith.

After 3 yrs of crappy defense with Frank Bush on the staff Kubes gets the bright idea (lets fire Dick Smith and hire somebody who contibuted to this cap) BRILLIANT

I TOO want to hear Frank Bush speak.

Wolf
09-27-2009, 10:56 PM
the post game quote thread, had him speak.

lots of Kubiak speak V1.1

Players saying that bush puts them in position but they aren't making the plays

maybe I am still frustrated, but I am not buying it .. I don't know if the players are buying it either , unless they are thinking too much during the action

I have a quote going through my mind today from one of the announcers early in the game

he said something to the effect of "all these guys can play but can they play within the scheme"

someone that dvr'd the game might catch exactly what was said, it was early and I believe and they were talking about the jags player

Htownsportsfan
09-27-2009, 11:00 PM
Firing a DC is a major issue thats why teams are so hesitant to make a change. Changing a scheme can make good players look lost, Chuck Cecil's new scheme in TN has the three pro bowlers in his secondary so lost they blew the coverage on AJ! Please forgetting to key on AJ is like not leaving Chris Johnson uncovered at WR. Oh yeah we did that! Losing Haynsworth didnt help but its been mentioned on several show on the NFLN etc that changing scheme and DC's is a hard adjustment for pro bowlers let alone the rag tag group in our secondary. Fred Bennett was killing me today!

Even the players admit they have the right scheme and are just failing to get in position. Thats a matter of coaching but its not the same a a bad scheme.

Porky
09-27-2009, 11:27 PM
Many of the mistakes I am seeing are mental. For instance on the long TD run by MJD, Busing was 100% totally out of position. You can't do that shit and expect to win games. This D IS actually winning more one on one battles. They have more stops for losses than last year, and they are stopping more backs for little or no gain. They look faster, bigger and more talented.

And yet, they suck. Not that they were great outside the big plays, but it's these half dozen or so plays where they just go absolutely brain dead that is just KILLING this Defense. Take those away, and they might be "ok". Folks an OK defense not giving up huge plays with this offense is a 10-11 win type team.

At this point, I have to also question hiring from within. It's like putting your hand into a pile of shit and hoping you grab a diamond and when you come out with a turd, you act surprised. Gregg Williams would have been a great and smart choice. At least pretend to go out and look for the best coordinator available. It's painfully obvious that Bush is in over his head and if they don't stop making these totally inexcusable mental mistakes, I'm going to want an in season firing of Mr. Bush. That crap just HAS to stop.

Mr teX
09-27-2009, 11:39 PM
Firing a DC is a major issue thats why teams are so hesitant to make a change. Changing a scheme can make good players look lost, Chuck Cecil's new scheme in TN has the three pro bowlers in his secondary so lost they blew the coverage on AJ! Please forgetting to key on AJ is like not leaving Chris Johnson uncovered at WR. Oh yeah we did that! Losing Haynsworth didnt help but its been mentioned on several show on the NFLN etc that changing scheme and DC's is a hard adjustment for pro bowlers let alone the rag tag group in our secondary. Fred Bennett was killing me today!

Even the players admit they have the right scheme and are just failing to get in position. Thats a matter of coaching but its not the same a a bad scheme.

Bingo. As the D-coordinator, If you're expecting the run & you put 8-10 guys in the box and guys still break for 60+ yarders? i don't think that's a scheme or play-call thing. Someone in that box needs to make a sure tackle. Lots of times, guys were getting 1st downs after 1st contact or after the 1st person whiffed on a tackle.

If i'm the defensive coaches, i know what im spending at least half of practice each day for the entire week on...

wagonhed
09-27-2009, 11:54 PM
Everyone on defense didn't just suddenly get bad or lose their football instincts and fundamentals. It's almost inconceivable that 3 games in a row of bottom of the barrel defense is just our players making lots and lots of mental mistakes. We didn't just forget how to tackle.

Practicing good tackling and encouraging less mental mistakes is not going to fix our defense. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Statistically speaking, the players on our defense are more or less average at tackling and average at awareness/focus. It makes absolutely no sense to say that our defensive scheme is perfectly fine but we have just coincidentally made more mental mistakes game after game than any other team. That just doesn't happen.

The problem is coaching. Plain and simple. There is no other plausible explanation for a fairly talented group playing this badly.

LonerATO
09-28-2009, 12:12 AM
Man Denver's new D under Mike Nolan looks freaking good. I had to point that out since we are talking about firing Frank Bush.

Mr teX
09-28-2009, 12:12 AM
Everyone on defense didn't just suddenly get bad or lose their football instincts and fundamentals. It's almost inconceivable that 3 games in a row of bottom of the barrel defense is just our players making lots and lots of mental mistakes. We didn't just forget how to tackle.

Practicing good tackling and encouraging less mental mistakes is not going to fix our defense. That's one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Statistically speaking, the players on our defense are more or less average at tackling and average at awareness/focus. It makes absolutely no sense to say that our defensive scheme is perfectly fine but we have just coincidentally made more mental mistakes game after game than any other team. That just doesn't happen.

The problem is coaching. Plain and simple. There is no other plausible explanation for a fairly talented group playing this badly.

What are you basing "fairly talented" on? we were shit at tackling last year too! We've seemingly only made 1 improvement in talent from last year in Cushing. the coaching staff at every defensive position has been changed at least once already.

i challenge you (if you can stomach it) to go back and watch how many times the rb/wr broke a tackle or made one of our guys miss & then ask yourself what would have become of that drive if the 1st defensive guy to the ball got the offensive guy down right then and there.

wagonhed
09-28-2009, 12:34 AM
What I'm saying is that it's extremely improbable that the Texans defense is uniformly worse at tackling than every other team in the NFL. When I say fairly talented, I mean we've got somewhere in the lower-middle range of talent on defense.

It would make sense to blame the problems on defense on a lack of personnel... it would make sense, but it wouldn't be very accurate. Our personnel should put us somewhere in the middle of the pack, especially with how our latest 1st rd pick is turning out. So to say that an averagely talented defense just happens to suck at tackling... it's just statistically unlikely. Every defensive player in the NFL misses tackles and makes mental mistakes. The difference between us and the other averagely talented defenses (49ers) is not that our players can't tackle, it's that we have terrible coaching.

thunderkyss
09-28-2009, 12:56 AM
What I'm saying is that it's extremely improbable that the Texans defense is uniformly worse at tackling than every other team in the NFL. When I say fairly talented, I mean we've got somewhere in the lower-middle range of talent on defense.


The difference between us and the other averagely talented defenses (49ers) is not that our players can't tackle, it's that we have terrible coaching.

Hell, I'll go one step farther. Many people here were talking about how much better we were in the second half of last year. Some gave the credit to Dunta's aura all of a sudden making everyone (everyone but Dunta himself that is) play better.

Others speculated that Frank Bush was "really" behind that defense.

We're not even as good as that team.

Ryan
09-28-2009, 01:00 AM
Seriously, i think i finally understand Richard Smith. His read and react crap was used because frankly, we have ZERO talent minus 3 players on that field. If we were more aggressive, we probably would have been 6-10 last season because our personnel is awful. At least he didn't give up big play after big play.

LonerATO
09-28-2009, 01:11 AM
I wish we would have fired Smith a few seasons ago and picked up Samurai Mike for D-cord.

wagonhed
09-28-2009, 01:11 AM
Maybe we can just bring in a coach from high school and run a normal defense. You know, one where defenders actually man their gaps, cover wide receivers, tackle the ball carrier, etc.

Seriously though, why does it have to be such an extreme? The moment I heard we were switching to an aggressive defense I was worried. Everything about that just sounds like a terrible idea. Honestly when I was watching us play today it didn't even look like a real defense... and not just because they were bad... there were none of the things you see real defenses do. No established line, safeties running around everywhere, it was totally ridiculous.

The best way I can describe our defense is like that game where you have a maze with holes in it and a little metal ball that you have to guide to the end by tilting the thing. That's what our defense looks like... everyone just kind of falls in whichever direction the ball carrier is. No containment, no gap control, no avoiding blockers, no nothing.

RagingBull
09-28-2009, 01:24 AM
Man Denver's new D under Mike Nolan looks freaking good. I had to point that out since we are talking about firing Frank Bush.

Yeah, especially when you look at what players they had last year. The only good ones that they had on "D" were Champ Bailey, DJ Williams, and Elvis Dumervil.

Now they have taken a bunch of average guys, coached them up, and made them look like the 2000 Ravens.

Seriously, the "core" talent on our D is of the same caliber as theirs. We have Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Dunta Robinson, and now added in Cushing as a 'core' of stars. You should be able to give that to a solid defensive guy and say patch up the other holes with FA and the draft just like Denver/Nolan/McDaniels has done and get a decent result.

LonerATO
09-28-2009, 02:30 AM
Yeah, especially when you look at what players they had last year. The only good ones that they had on "D" were Champ Bailey, DJ Williams, and Elvis Dumervil.

Now they have taken a bunch of average guys, coached them up, and made them look like the 2000 Ravens.

Seriously, the "core" talent on our D is of the same caliber as theirs. We have Mario Williams, Demeco Ryans, Dunta Robinson, and now added in Cushing as a 'core' of stars. You should be able to give that to a solid defensive guy and say patch up the other holes with FA and the draft just like Denver/Nolan/McDaniels has done and get a decent result.

Dont forget to add Dawkins to that list, but I agree we have great "core talent" that needs good coaching.