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Corrosion
09-28-2009, 04:39 AM
Time to get out the pink soap avatars :foottap:

Hervoyel
09-28-2009, 09:21 AM
Time to get out the pink soap avatars :foottap:


I'm working on them. I just need to do two this time around. I know there's a "FIRE FRANK" bunch and a "FIRE GARY" bunch so I want to have avatars for both ready before I release them in the wild.

HoustonFrog
09-28-2009, 09:29 AM
I'm working on them. I just need to do two this time around. I know there's a "FIRE FRANK" bunch and a "FIRE GARY" bunch so I want to have avatars for both ready before I release them in the wild.

Is there a "Battle Pink" one that has "Fire Fra-ry" on it :)

TimeKiller
09-28-2009, 10:02 AM
Hey is there any more room on this bandwagon? I'd like to join.

Please notify me of any applications I need to fill out to join.

Second Honeymoon
09-28-2009, 10:31 AM
Just an embarassing performance by the Texans defense. Honestly, did anyone expect anything else with the hiring of Frank Bush?

The guy was a cheapskate hire and a crony hire and we are getting what we paid for. We did the token attempt at interviewing candidates but its obvious we didn't get the most qualified candidate. we got the most convenient candidate. Look at what Gregg Williams has done with NO who had 'one of the worst defenses in teh league'. He has come in and made a difference. We brought in someone who was just going to continue same scheme and then put in some wrinkles that the players have yet to execute correctly.

We need to go out and get someone to truly change this defense. There is plenty of talent there they just need some real coaching.

Why this guy is still collecting a check is beyond me. It's not the league or the fans are going to think you are jumping the gun or acting too quickly.

Oh and Antonio Smith. The season has begun. It's Week 4. Feel free to do something besides run ur sorry mouth.

Silver Oak
09-28-2009, 10:42 AM
to a player, everyone is defending Bush, and assuming blame themselves. even the outspoken Dunta has said it is not the coaching, but them not being able to make the plays.

I'm not defending Bush here as I was disgusted at the defense as anyone else, but the fact is we don't have the talent so many thought we had...coincidentally the same ones who were projecting "playoffs" this season.

wagonhed
09-28-2009, 10:48 AM
to a player, everyone is defending Bush, and assuming blame themselves. even the outspoken Dunta has said it is not the coaching, but them not being able to make the plays.

I'm not defending Bush here as I was disgusted at the defense as anyone else, but the fact is we don't have the talent so many thought we had...coincidentally the same ones who were projecting "playoffs" this season.
Could it be any other way? As long as he is a likeable coach, there is no way players are going to come out and blame someone else (the coach) instead of blaming themselves. That's because they're men. Men take responsibility for things and do their best to fix them even if it's not their fault. The players may not blame Bush but that doesn't mean he isn't to blame. Besides, a classy team will never come out and blame someone in the organization besides themselves. We should be glad our team has integrity. Afterall, we could be the Raiders.... or the Eagles... or the Cowboys... etc.

ATXtexanfan
09-28-2009, 10:49 AM
the D is a mess, don't know where to begin. Tackling and mental breakdowns can be fixed now. Glaring personnel issues must be addressed in off season. S and DT.

Htownsportsfan
09-28-2009, 10:53 AM
Man Denver's new D under Mike Nolan looks freaking good. I had to point that out since we are talking about firing Frank Bush.

Thats true and I have not looked so I ask this question in all seriousness. How many rookies and 2nd year players are they forced to depend on in their secondary. Busing, Moulden, McCain, Cushing thats alot of young guys lined up with some average D players at best. Cushing looks good even as a young guy but other than Mario, Demeco and Dunta who on this D is better than average?

Corrosion
09-28-2009, 10:57 AM
I'm working on them. I just need to do two this time around. I know there's a "FIRE FRANK" bunch and a "FIRE GARY" bunch so I want to have avatars for both ready before I release them in the wild.

Im with you on Bush .... I cant say the same thing about Kubiak just yet.
He was brought here for what he can do with an offense - Its painfully obvious that the offense isnt the problem.
They can put points on the board. Schaub has become a better than average QB (When healthy). A considerable amount of that success should be attributed to Kubiak.

Then again , the coach doesnt get blown up on running plays , take bad angles ar Olay tackles ..... Is it a question of talent ? or just poor coaching ? Poor scheme ? Combination of "All of the above"?

Htownsportsfan
09-28-2009, 11:00 AM
Just a follow up to my last post. Make no mistake I am not happy with the D's performance or Bush. But considering our lack of depth what ois Bush to do about Busing over pursueing his man and allowing a touchdown. What is he to do about Fred Bennett who was juked out of his joke several times in coverage. How about Dunta our franchise player missing tackles! I know he caused a fumble later but one does not always make up for the other. How about the fact that our safties are so sloe that even with the angle they could not cut of MJD.

We have had post after post all off season about how weak our DB's, safeties and DT's are and now we all act surprised our D is struggling? Go back and watch the games and look at how many times we blitzed and jacksonville picked it up like it was no big deal.

Our scheme needs adjustments no doubt and you can go back and watch games 1, 2 and 3 and see adjustments are being made but that doesnt help when young and below average players fail on their assignments.

bckey
09-28-2009, 11:03 AM
I'm working on them. I just need to do two this time around. I know there's a "FIRE FRANK" bunch and a "FIRE GARY" bunch so I want to have avatars for both ready before I release them in the wild.

If we lose to the Raiders I'll take a Bush soap Herv. And if it gets any worse I'll move on to the Kubiak soap.

It is becoming painfully obvious that Kubiak is an offensive cordinator and Bush is a position coach who are both in over their heads.

Now look at what was supposed to be an easy schedule and tell me how many games you think we will win with Bush's new aggressive defense. The Rams, Seahawks, Titans and Raiders are the only games I see as us having a chance. The Raiders suprised us last year though so that games scares me too. I don't see us even going 8-8 anymore. More like 5-11 or 6-10. Hey at least we will be in position for one of the good safeties coming out. Or cb. Or dt. Man this defense blows:panic:

Sun. 4 RAIDERS
Sun. 11 @ Cardinals
Sun. 18 @ Bengals
Sun. 25 49ERS
Sun. 1 @ Bills
Sun. 8 @ Colts
BYE 15
Mon. 23 TITANS
Sun. 29 COLTS
Sun. 6 @ Jaguars
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS
Sun. 20 @ Rams
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins
Sun. 3 Patriots

HoustonFrog
09-28-2009, 11:03 AM
Im with you on Bush .... I cant say the same thing about Kubiak just yet.
He was brought here for what he can do with an offense - Its painfully obvious that the offense isnt the problem.
They can put points on the board. Schaub has become a better than average QB (When healthy). A considerable amount of that success should be attributed to Kubiak.
Then again , the coach doesnt get blown up on running plays , take bad angles ar Olay tackles ..... Is it a question of talent ? or just poor coaching ? Poor scheme ? Combination of "All of the above"?

Didn't he want to hire Bush though...a cronie hire...compared to going out and getting someone who track experience?

HOU-TEX
09-28-2009, 11:06 AM
If we lose to the Raiders I'll take a Bush soap Herv. And if it gets any worse I'll move on to the Kubiak soap.

It is becoming painfully obvious that Kubiak is an offensive cordinator and Bush is a position coach who are both in over their heads. But I think with the right dc we could have at least won the Jags game and been 2-1.

Now look at what was supposed to be an easy schedule and tell me how many games you think we will win with Bush's new aggressive defense. The Rams, Seahawks, Titans and Raiders are the only games I see as us having a chance. The Raiders suprised us last year though so that games scares me too. I don't see us even going 8-8 anymore. More like 5-11 or 6-10. Hey at least we will be in position for one of the good safeties coming out. Or cb. Or dt. Man this defense blows:panic:

Sun. 4 RAIDERS
Sun. 11 @ Cardinals
Sun. 18 @ Bengals
Sun. 25 49ERS
Sun. 1 @ Bills
Sun. 8 @ Colts
BYE 15
Mon. 23 TITANS
Sun. 29 COLTS
Sun. 6 @ Jaguars
Sun. 13 SEAHAWKS
Sun. 20 @ Rams
Sun. 27 @ Dolphins

We'll be lucky as hell being 2-7 going into our bye. :gun:

Mr. White
09-28-2009, 11:10 AM
Im with you on Bush .... I cant say the same thing about Kubiak just yet.
He was brought here for what he can do with an offense - Its painfully obvious that the offense isnt the problem.
They can put points on the board. Schaub has become a better than average QB (When healthy). A considerable amount of that success should be attributed to Kubiak.

Then again , the coach doesnt get blown up on running plays , take bad angles ar Olay tackles ..... Is it a question of talent ? or just poor coaching ? Poor scheme ? Combination of "All of the above"?

That argument would hold water if Kubiak were an offensive coordinator.

Since he's the head coach, he's accountable for the defense too.

Mr teX
09-28-2009, 11:38 AM
What I'm saying is that it's extremely improbable that the Texans defense is uniformly worse at tackling than every other team in the NFL. When I say fairly talented, I mean we've got somewhere in the lower-middle range of talent on defense.

It would make sense to blame the problems on defense on a lack of personnel... it would make sense, but it wouldn't be very accurate. Our personnel should put us somewhere in the middle of the pack, especially with how our latest 1st rd pick is turning out. So to say that an averagely talented defense just happens to suck at tackling... it's just statistically unlikely. Every defensive player in the NFL misses tackles and makes mental mistakes. The difference between us and the other averagely talented defenses (49ers) is not that our players can't tackle, it's that we have terrible coaching.

I don't think you get it.

the TD that Mike Sims Walker got, 3 guys hit him 10 yards before he scored. Busing was 1st, one of our Cb's was second & Wilson's lame attempt came 3rd. They all bounced off like friggin pinballs. If Busing hits & brings him down right then & there, maybe we can hold them to a fg that drive. There are instances like that all throughout that game & the season thus far.

Now you can blame some of that on coaching as far as making sure these guys keep to their fundamentals, but that's just it......these are fundamental things that they as players are not doing & good talented players don't stray from these things.

throughout our existence, our personnel has largely consisted of street FA's, mediocore to below average FA pick-ups & bad draft choices.... mostly on defense . Things have drastically changed on the offense b/c But again, everyone on the defensive coaching staff has been changed at least once & all of the current staff has had success elsewhere before coming here. At some point you have to ask yourself what is the common denominator in all of this suckiness? Could we have looked for a more experienced coach for D-coordinator? sure, but that hasn't exactly proven to be the difference so far either judging by how we've been the only team Alex Gibbs hasn't turned into a running juggernaut in his allustrious career.

At some point, you've got to face facts, we just need more talent..starting with DT & safety.

Vinny
09-28-2009, 11:48 AM
This defense is a joke. It's a synergistic combination of really awful coaching combined with really bad tackling with a healthy dash of really poor personnel decisions, starting way up top and trickling all the way down like a Bush economic theory in pre-market crash mode.

Texan JBZ
09-28-2009, 11:57 AM
This is the part that gets my goat. You take a pourous defense like the Saints, add in Gregg Williams and they're undefeated. Same with Rex Ryan, but the Jets had a lot of talent on defense before he got there. Mike Singletary has completely changed the culture of the 49ers. On the other hand, you take Jim Schwartz away from the Titans and they implode. You take Richard Smith away from the Texans, and they get worse if that is even feasible to imagine. The Texans coaches are sub-par and it shows at every level during every game. It's sickening how poorly coached this team is.

Jackie Chiles
09-28-2009, 12:07 PM
That was the worst defensive performance of the year, I cannot believe I held out hope after the first two games. They should hang a sign somewhere between the visiting locker room and the field that reads "Punter not necessary beyond this point."

HOU-TEX
09-28-2009, 12:30 PM
This is the part that gets my goat. You take a pourous defense like the Saints, add in Gregg Williams and they're undefeated. Same with Rex Ryan, but the Jets had a lot of talent on defense before he got there. Mike Singletary has completely changed the culture of the 49ers. On the other hand, you take Jim Schwartz away from the Titans and they implode. You take Richard Smith away from the Texans, and they get worse if that is even feasible to imagine. The Texans coaches are sub-par and it shows at every level during every game. It's sickening how poorly coached this team is.

McClain actually mentioned some thing I agree with in his blog.

I guess if you're a fan of Houston's pro football team, whether it was the Oilers or now the Texans, you're destined to be disappointed.

http://blogs.chron.com/nfl/2009/09/if_youre_a_texans_fan_disappoi.html

LonerATO
09-28-2009, 04:25 PM
Thats true and I have not looked so I ask this question in all seriousness. How many rookies and 2nd year players are they forced to depend on in their secondary. Busing, Moulden, McCain, Cushing thats alot of young guys lined up with some average D players at best. Cushing looks good even as a young guy but other than Mario, Demeco and Dunta who on this D is better than average?

Im not saying that Denver's players are better, but they have a better coach getting them running in a whole new system. Roman Harper is about as bad as some of the Texans second year DB's.

Wolf
09-28-2009, 07:19 PM
I held this for 12 hours, trying to let the stench of Sunday's performance dissipate a bit.

But it's still funky.

This is a short entry. There will be more to come. The Texans' defense is bad, real bad. You don't need me to tell you that.

Unless the Dallas Cowboys give up 432 yards to the Panthers on Monday night, the Texans will have allowed more yards than any team in the league through three games.

After the first game it was still early. After Week 2, we were still talking about it being only two games. But now?

Well, it's no longer it's no longer a couple of wild nights out on the town. This is a full-on addiction. Yes, the Texans' pitiful defense needs an intervention.

Unfortunately the best time for that intervention was during the offseason, and well ... let's just say they're still hanging out with the same crowd.

I'm all for giving somebody a chance before I throw them overboard. You know I'm not a nuclear overreactor.

But Frank Bush is off to a horrible start as Texans defensive coordinator. I had reservations about the hire from the get-go not that there is anything wrong with Bush, but a first-time coordinator, particularly one with ties to the previous defensive administration didn't seem like the right man for this job.

Richard Smith's defense gave up 441, 515 and 495 yards in his first three games as Texans' defensive coordinator.

Frank Bush's defense has allowed 462, 449 and 397 in his first three games. (Hey, on a positive note, Sunday's performance was a HUGE improvement compared to Smith' D, right?)

Total yards don't mean as much in the NFL as you might think, but they do mean something. And the numbers say if you're getting rolled early in the season, you'll probably get rolled all season.



In the last five seasons, those horrible defenses produced only one winning team the 2004 Indianapolis Colts. Indy rode the league's highest-scoring offense to a 12-4 record that year.

Here are the previous five teams with the worst defense in the league after three games and how they fared that season.

Team Year Yards Final rank
1. Indianapolis (12-4) 2004 1,250 29th
2. San Francisco (4-12) 2005 1,431 32nd
3. Houston (6-10) 2006 1,451 24th
4. Buffalo (7-9) 2007 1,375 31st
5. St. Louis (2-14) 2008 1,370 28th



http://blogs.chron.com/jeromesolomon/2009/09/dont_expect_texans_defense_to.html

buddyboy
09-28-2009, 07:35 PM
Richard Smith's defense gave up 441, 515 and 495 yards in his first three games as Texans' defensive coordinator.

Frank Bush's defense has allowed 462, 449 and 397 in his first three games. (Hey, on a positive note, Sunday's performance was a HUGE improvement compared to Smith' D, right?)

I feel like we have the talent on defense. I really do. But if you've got one guy trying to start a car, and he fails, so you get another guy to try, and he fails too....maybe the car's just broke?

Second Honeymoon
09-28-2009, 07:51 PM
I feel like we have the talent on defense. I really do. But if you've got one guy trying to start a car, and he fails, so you get another guy to try, and he fails too....maybe the car's just broke?

no, maybe you try and find someone who can find another way to start the car. bush, the failure, is still trying to start the car the same way Richard Smith did and still failing...and some of us wonder why some of us questioned Bush's hiring, experience, and ability?

they are trying the same stupid stuff and getting the same stupid results

Fire Bush because he sucks as bad as Richard Smith....they suck

Wolf
09-30-2009, 07:54 PM
PRO FOOTBALL INDEFENSIBLE `D' Three games into the season, the Texans have surrendered big gainer after big gainer and are on pace to allow the most yards in NFL history TEXANS: Kubiak sees assignment issues

YARDS ALLOWED vs. Jets (24-7 loss) 462

YARDS ALLOWED vs. Titans (34-31 win) 449

YARDS ALLOWED vs. Jaguars (31-24 loss) 398

GIVING UNTIL IT HURTS

How the Texans , at their present pace, compare with the teams that allowed the three highest single-season yardage totals in NFL history.

(Note: The league has played a 16-game schedule since 1978.)

6,793 Colts (2-14), 1981

6,403 Packers (8-8), 1983

6,391 Seahawks (6-10), 2000

6,981 * Texans , 2009

* - If present pace continues


http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/10145934/PRO-FOOTBALL-INDEFENSIBLE-%60D'-Three-games-into-the-season,-the-Texans-have-surrendered-big-gainer-after-big-gainer-and-are-on-pace-to-allow-the-most-yards-in-NFL-history-TEXANS:-Kubiak-sees-assignment-issues-

the trend won't continue, but yikes

steelbtexan
09-30-2009, 10:05 PM
Fact

Frank Bush shouldn't have been hired.

Koolaid Time
09-30-2009, 10:16 PM
This defense is a joke. It's a synergistic combination of really awful coaching combined with really bad tackling with a healthy dash of really poor personnel decisions, starting way up top and trickling all the way down like a Bush economic theory in pre-market crash mode.

I don't think Frank Bush gets the defense prepared. They play tentative, hesitant. They react to the other team rather than being aggressive. They hesitate and let the offensive line beat them back 2 to 3 yards on 1st and 2nd downs.

The only time the defense shows any real aggression is in a 3rd and 6 or longer situation.

This is all "coaching failures" not individual player issues. Bush should be gone this time next week.

infantrycak
10-01-2009, 12:59 AM
I don't think Frank Bush gets the defense prepared. They play tentative, hesitant. They react to the other team rather than being aggressive. They hesitate and let the offensive line beat them back 2 to 3 yards on 1st and 2nd downs.

The only time the defense shows any real aggression is in a 3rd and 6 or longer situation.

This is all "coaching failures" not individual player issues. Bush should be gone this time next week.

Are we watching the same D? I am seeing a D that is getting more stops for a loss and short yardage than previously particularly on 1st and 2nd down. Then on 3rd down they give up the ghost. I believe every 25+ yard play they have given up or close to it has come on 3rd down.

Vinny
10-01-2009, 10:44 AM
PRO FOOTBALL INDEFENSIBLE `D' Three games into the season, the Texans have surrendered big gainer after big gainer and are on pace to allow the most yards in NFL history TEXANS
They forgot to mention how improved the D is!

Wolf
11-01-2009, 05:32 PM
I am not sure what Frank has done, but I will give him props of fixing this defense..

Did he simplify it?


Is is just the simple addition of Pollard at safety that allows us to be better?
(getting Reeves healthy helps a bunch and not sure what happened to Bennett and his drop off at CB)

as much as a beating he got (deservedly at the time) I will say props to him for getting things better


They said we lead the league in 3 and outs and today we added 5 more (if I counted right)

Silver Oak
11-01-2009, 05:37 PM
the ridiculous comments made by some in this thread is only topped by the early pages of todays gameday thread.

some Texans fans...they put the jerk, in knee jerk!

Ryan
11-01-2009, 05:39 PM
Kubiak stepped in and started analyzing the D and that helped alot. I don't think it was Kubiak that ultimately helped the defense improve, but it was just the addition of smarter playcalling, finally hitting midseason form, sure tackling, Pollard, Cushing, stuff like that.

swtbound07
11-01-2009, 06:23 PM
the ridiculous comments made by some in this thread is only topped by the early pages of todays gameday thread.

some Texans fans...they put the jerk, in knee jerk!

I stand by everything I've said in this thread.

Fox
11-01-2009, 06:43 PM
Great thread.

Corrosion
11-01-2009, 07:50 PM
Great thread.

With the way this defense has played over the last few weeks , I think its safe for us to delete this thread entirely.

They didnt give up a first down in the second half today until the Bills last possession and only gave up 16 total yards in the 3rd quarter. Yes the Bills offense is inept but this is the NFL , holding a team without a first down for nearly an entire half is rediculous.

They arent quite as dominating as many of us would like to see but the fact that they lead the NFL in 3 and outs says a lot about how far they have come since the first couple games.

:d:

rollinstone18
11-01-2009, 07:59 PM
the ridiculous comments made by some in this thread is only topped by the early pages of todays gameday thread.

some Texans fans...they put the jerk, in knee jerk!

qft.

GP
11-01-2009, 08:03 PM
Well, I guess we need to probably suspend any trash-talking between any of us until after next Sunday is over.

Manning and his crew have a knack for surgically removing our heart and stomping on it for four quarters.

So maybe nobody should do any strutting just yet.

Let's see how much we're giggling and high-fiving each other next week. While I expect us to beat them, the history books say it's tough sledding for the Texans. If Bush and his crew somehow limit the Colts and keep them in check, then I'll become a sold-out believer in this defense.

Until then, I'm staying pretty neutral due to who we have played thus far. We made the Jags look like champs and they just got drubbed by the Titans and VY. Oops.

Mr teX
11-01-2009, 08:03 PM
well, i still think that talent wise, we need a little bit more, but i think our success on defense lately has been a combination of guys tackling better and everyone geling within the scheme. Especially the tackling part. the first person to the ball has 80% of the time either made the tackle or done just enough to hold the ball carrier until help arrives.

A return to fundamentals.

Mr teX
11-01-2009, 08:08 PM
Well, I guess we need to probably suspend any trash-talking between any of us until after next Sunday is over.

Manning and his crew have a knack for surgically removing our heart and stomping on it for four quarters.

So maybe nobody should do any strutting just yet.

Let's see how much we're giggling and high-fiving each other next week. While I expect us to beat them, the history books say it's tough sledding for the Texans.

This is even more reason why everyone shouldn't freak out. Manning is a beast and makes most defenses look ridiculous. There should be no shame in getting touched up by him and our defense shouldn't let that get into their head for any future games. Just win the game by any means necessary.

GP
11-01-2009, 08:12 PM
This is even more reason why everyone shouldn't freak out. Manning is a beast and makes most defenses look ridiculous. There should be no shame in getting touched up by him and our defense shouldn't let that get into their head for any future games. Just win the game by any means necessary.

At some point, the teams in the AFC South have got to stop letting him do what he does. He's human. He's got three knee braces on each knee. He doesn't have Harrison anymore. His running backs are not as lethal as in years' past. Dungy is gone.

If we can't touch the guy, or hold him in check, I don't know how we can expect to get to the playoffs. We need to be the best team in our division, IMO.

This Sunday will be a nail-biter for me.

gtexan02
11-01-2009, 08:14 PM
Division games should always be close. THeres no excuse for anyone getting blown out. Its not like they show us anything they haven't before

Mr teX
11-01-2009, 08:25 PM
At some point, the teams in the AFC South have got to stop letting him do what he does. He's human. He's got three knee braces on each knee. He doesn't have Harrison anymore. His running backs are not as lethal as in years' past. Dungy is gone.

If we can't touch the guy, or hold him in check, I don't know how we can expect to get to the playoffs. We need to be the best team in our division, IMO.

This Sunday will be a nail-biter for me.

yeah, that'll be when he retires. HE WILL GET HIS. we just have to make it tough as possible for him to get it. whether that's through ball control or simply keeping him off the field as long as possible we have to get that done. That has always been the best way to increase your chances of beating Peyton Manning led teams....and even that's not a guarantee. ask Tampa bay and Miami.

swtbound07
11-01-2009, 09:43 PM
See...we just gave up 21 points in a half to alex smith. I'm not ready to annoint Bush just freaking yet. We still consistently pretty much suck in the secondary.