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View Full Version : New coach, couple new players, same old defense ....


eriadoc
08-22-2009, 08:53 PM
Cushions at the corners, soft against the run up the gut, no effective blitzing, and giving it up in the RZ.

At least it's preseason.

Goatcheese
08-22-2009, 09:20 PM
:polevault:

Still can't get over the hump from 'Terrible' to 'Not completely embarrassing'.

b0ng
08-22-2009, 09:30 PM
http://www.catalogs.com/info/bestof/wp-content/uploads/2009/01/debbie_downer.jpg

gtexan02
08-22-2009, 09:35 PM
Its preseason
Our best DBs aren't on the field
Our starting S lb is hurt
We are going against last years overall #1 offense

Its preseason

Lets not get over excited already

Ckw
08-22-2009, 09:36 PM
Something tells me we are running a very vanilla defense. I just can't and won't believe the blitz packages we have run are going to be the same ones we run in the regular season. I really don't believe this is the "same old defense".

Ckw
08-22-2009, 09:37 PM
Its preseason
Our best DBs aren't on the field
Our starting S lb is hurt
We are going against last years overall #1 offense

Its preseason

Lets not get over excited already

Exactly right. We posted at about the same time. Add your post to mine and you have the perfect post on the matter. :turtle:

eriadoc
08-22-2009, 09:38 PM
Something tells me we are running a very vanilla defense. I just can't and won't believe the blitz packages we have run are going to be the same ones we run in the regular season. I really don't believe this is the "same old defense".

Vanilla or not, those guys in the middle are just getting beat.

Carr Bombed
08-22-2009, 09:53 PM
Its preseason
Our best DBs aren't on the field
Our starting S lb is hurt
We are going against last years overall #1 offense

Its preseason

Lets not get over excited already

I don't even care about the passing plays, there was no excuse for the rushing defense tonight. The Saints aren't even a running team and we allowed them to truck right over us.

jaayteetx
08-22-2009, 09:58 PM
move on now, nothing to see here, keep moving

ragindark
08-22-2009, 09:59 PM
Remember that you are going against the Saints who have #1 offense in the NFL.

Carr Bombed
08-22-2009, 10:00 PM
Remember that you are going against the Saints who have #1 offense in the NFL.

What was their rushing offense like........again I don't give a crap about the passing plays. That's NOT why I'm upset. We have to play against the Titans 2x a year....they are going to hang 250+ rushing yards on us if we go out there and play like we did tonight.

Carr Bombed
08-22-2009, 10:01 PM
Okay.....that last play was just embarrassing. That's exactly what I'm talking about. We're getting gashed all night long.

Jackie Chiles
08-22-2009, 10:03 PM
Have any of our DBs laid a finger on the football?

Ckw
08-22-2009, 10:16 PM
Vanilla or not, those guys in the middle are just getting beat.

Can't argue with that after that last drive. :gun:

m5kwatts
08-22-2009, 10:37 PM
Bush has nothing to gain from showing his hand and doing anything special but thats no excuse for the utter lack of execution

This defense needs Cushing more than we thought

eriadoc
08-22-2009, 10:40 PM
Bush has nothing to gain from showing his hand and doing anything special but thats no excuse for the utter lack of execution

This defense needs Cushing more than we thought

I don't expect to see any exotic blitz schemes or fancy stunts or unusual coverages. I would like to see the corners up tight to jam at the line and see how they handle it. I'd like to see the line beat their man and stop a run up the middle. I'd like to see players recognizing the situation and covering correctly. The scheme can be adjusted later.

Carr Bombed
08-22-2009, 10:40 PM
Bush has nothing to gain from showing his hand and doing anything special but thats no excuse for the utter lack of execution

This defense needs Cushing more than we thought

Yeah, what happened tonight doesn't have anything to do with trying to hide a scheme, but simply a lack of gap discipline. Not only could I not find our DTs anywhere near a play, but our LBs were missing as well. The worst defensive performance I've seen in a while.....and being a fan of this team, that's saying something.

m5kwatts
08-22-2009, 11:04 PM
Yeah, what happened tonight doesn't have anything to do with trying to hide a scheme, but simply a lack of gap discipline. Not only could I not find our DTs anywhere near a play, but our LBs were missing as well. The worst defensive performance I've seen in a while.....and being a fan of this team, that's saying something.

Yep it was very disappointing I don't take many positives away from this game. I guess coming out healthy is the only thing to show for it tonight.

silvrhand
08-22-2009, 11:13 PM
I'm sorry no matter what scheme you run, when the other teams offensive line is moving you back 2-3 years per play you aren't going to be successful. If we are not successful up front we might as well forget it, people will run the ball on us and then throw the deep pass over the top cause we have to start creeping our safeties up.

The front DL is still horrible.

V3rm0nt3r
08-22-2009, 11:18 PM
I'm sorry no matter what scheme you run, when the other teams offensive line is moving you back 2-3 years per play you aren't going to be successful. If we are not successful up front we might as well forget it, people will run the ball on us and then throw the deep pass over the top cause we have to start creeping our safeties up.

The front DL is still horrible.

nothing that a couple of more first round picks can't fix right? gotta love it when 2 first round DT's in a 3 year span finally pay off. :gun:

ArlingtonTexan
08-22-2009, 11:33 PM
"The Texans' defense looks like it will be a lot better already. (Brian) Cushing needs to stay healthy, but he'll give DeMeco Ryans the help he has not had. (CB) Glover Quin has looked good. Connor Barwin can bring the speed that they have not had opposite Mario (Williams) on third downs. The biggest concern is Amobi Okoye's health."


http://profootballweekly.com/2009/08/22/owens-brings-visibility-headaches-to-bills

posted this morning

Jackie Chiles
08-22-2009, 11:35 PM
http://profootballweekly.com/2009/08/22/owens-brings-visibility-headaches-to-bills

posted this morning

I hope the Glover Quin we keep hearing about from practice shows up next week.

Norg
08-23-2009, 12:09 AM
your right it was the same ol texans D if we dont get better we are deff in for another 8-8 season but hey its Pre season so lets not overthink this

silvrhand
08-23-2009, 12:35 AM
nothing that a couple of more first round picks can't fix right? gotta love it when 2 first round DT's in a 3 year span finally pay off. :gun:

seriously, I can't believe we can't find a good NASTY DT, I want someone who wants to go in there and rip someone's head off every play.

michaelm
08-23-2009, 01:05 AM
Its preseason
Our best DBs aren't on the field
Our starting S lb is hurt
We are going against last years overall #1 offense

Its preseason

Lets not get over excited already

Something tells me we are running a very vanilla defense. I just can't and won't believe the blitz packages we have run are going to be the same ones we run in the regular season. I really don't believe this is the "same old defense".

Exactly right. We posted at about the same time. Add your post to mine and you have the perfect post on the matter. :turtle:


Bull****.
Bull****.
Bull****.
Bull****.

We may not be breaking out the same defense we would show in some pie in the sky playoff run, but the Saints weren't exactly pulling out the stops because their playoff lives depended on it.
We may have shown a "vanilla" defense, but what, you think the Saints were pulling out all of the stops offensively?
NO.
The Texans got HANDLED running their preseason defense against a team running their preseason offense.
Should my half-full glass convince me that we were only showing a little of what we have to offer, but the Saints were playing hell bent for leather?
NO.
It's a preseason playing field, but it's a level playing field.
We got our asses handed to us, plain and simple.

Buffi2
08-23-2009, 01:09 AM
you think the Saints were pulling out all of the stops offensively?
NO.
The Texans got HANDLED running their preseason defense against a team running their preseason offense.
Should my half-full glass convince me that we were only showing a little of what we have to offer, but the Saints were playing hell bent for leather?
NO.
It's a preseason playing field, but it's a level playing field.
We got our asses handed to us, plain and simple.

Totally agree.

Carr Bombed
08-23-2009, 01:10 AM
Yep, that's what happened....

The same excuses that are popping up in this thread are the same excuses that popped up during the horrible preseason of the 2-14 season. Now I'm not saying that's going to happen, but we shouldn't just sweep this lump of crap laid tonight under a rug.....good teams/playoff teams don't get ran on like that.......preseason or not, I dare anybody to show me one that does. One guy had 100 yards rushing agianst our starters in the first half alone, that doesn't just happen, because "it's preseason".

michaelm
08-23-2009, 01:25 AM
I probably owe some people an apology for my earlier response.
It's obvious that I overlooked the fact that we're already so proficient in this new, badass defense that we don't need to show it for even a single snap in preseason.
... I never even considered that...

thunderkyss
08-23-2009, 01:30 AM
Yep, that's what happened....

The same excuses that are popping up in this thread are the same excuses that popped up during the horrible preseason of the 2-14 season. Now I'm not saying that's going to happen, but we shouldn't just sweep this lump of crap laid tonight under a rug.....good teams/playoff teams don't get ran on like that.......preseason or not, I dare anybody to show me one that does. One guy had 100 yards rushing agianst our starters in the first half alone, that doesn't just happen, because "it's preseason".

Speaking of 2-14....... I was thinking how this preseason "feels" aweful familiar. Except back then, we were talking about how great Babin was going to be. How much better Antwan Peek was going to be. How solid Kylee Wong was going to be. How Dunta was going to lock down the corner. & CC & Glen were going to figure something out.

That was me. I was just like everyone else, I'm not going to lie.

How different is our situation now? We've got Mario & Demeco...... two solid players. Two true starters.

That's it.

m5kwatts
08-23-2009, 01:35 AM
Oh my Lord, I knew it was gonna get ugly in here.

Carr Bombed
08-23-2009, 01:45 AM
Oh my Lord, I knew it was gonna get ugly in here.

LOL

It's only a reflection of what we all witnessed tonight.

BTW, did anybody see the post game press conference on tonight's game.....Kubiak looked visibly shaken. He had the same "WTF" look on his face that I'm sure many of us had as well. To put it mildly.......it's not going to be a good week in camp this week. I'm sure Rick Smith didn't appreciate his team giving up the most embarrassing plays of the night, while he was being interviewed either.

Bottom line is there was no excuse for what happened tonight....I don't care if people are injured, nada nada nada. (The Saints were without two OLineman starters) What happened tonight, there's simply no excuse for that and if we don't get it even slightly fixed, expect another slow start out of the gates. This team should be developing a mean streak under this new defensive leadership.....you can't do that when you're allowing another team to truck you left and right.

Malloy
08-23-2009, 02:30 AM
You know what? I'm kinda glad this happened, and that it happened in a pre-season game. This is a slap in the face of most of our players, and it'll give the coaches PLENTY of stuff to work with. Hopefully it exposed some obvious problems in our game in time for us to fix some of it. Also, hopefully it'll bring our players back to reality, make them realize that if they for one second lose focus, we'll choke and lose games in an ugly way.

For motivational purposes, this loss came at the perfect time.

Carr Bombed
08-23-2009, 02:36 AM
You know what? I'm kinda glad this happened, and that it happened in a pre-season game. This is a slap in the face of most of our players, and it'll give the coaches PLENTY of stuff to work with. Hopefully it exposed some obvious problems in our game in time for us to fix some of it. Also, hopefully it'll bring our players back to reality, make them realize that if they for one second lose focus, we'll choke and lose games in an ugly way.

For motivational purposes, this loss came at the perfect time.

Honestly.....I freaking hope so.

Although I'm tired of this team needing "wake up calls/slaps in the face". You'd think they've already had enough of those at this point.

Malloy
08-23-2009, 02:50 AM
Honestly.....I freaking hope so.

Although I'm tired of this team needing "wake up calls/slaps in the face". You'd think they've already had enough of those at this point.

Agreed, but it's a young team (player-wise), i attribute their lack of focus to their age really. Does that make it ok? Hell no, but it does explain it, and provides me with that bit of silver lining I crave being a Texans fan :)

Carr Bombed
08-23-2009, 02:58 AM
Agreed, but it's a young team (player-wise), i attribute their lack of focus to their age really. Does that make it ok? Hell no, but it does explain it, and provides me with that bit of silver lining I crave being a Texans fan :)

Honestly if you want to get right down to it.....I attribute it to leadership. This team lacks it and it pains me to say that, but this team REALLY lacks it.

Showtime100
08-23-2009, 03:05 AM
Honestly if you want to get right down to it.....I attribute it to leadership. This team lacks it and it pains me to say that, but this team REALLY lacks it.

Slightly off the track, but it was disheartening for lack of a better word, to see Kube's red flag that I thought was ill-advised and could - and as it turned out - would destroy the sequence of events that would have lead to the Saints punting the football.

Disheartening because Kubiak has a history of ill-advised challenges and I wouldn't classify that as a training camp decision, just Kubes. (the final ruling sucked too...lol, tuck my a$$)

Malloy
08-23-2009, 03:07 AM
Honestly if you want to get right down to it.....I attribute it to leadership. This team lacks it and it pains me to say that, but this team REALLY lacks it.

True! I think we have LEADERS on the team, but not alot of LEADERSHIP.

It'll come eventually with experience, but could have been gotten so much faster through FA.

Aaron Glenn still biting our ass :I

Carr Bombed
08-23-2009, 03:09 AM
Slightly off the track, but it was disheartening for lack of a better word, to see Kube's red flag that I thought was ill-advised and could - and as it turned out - would destroy the sequence of events that would have lead to the Saints punting the football.

Disheartening because Kubiak has a history of ill-advised challenges and I wouldn't classify that as a training camp decision, just Kubes. (the final ruling sucked too...lol, tuck my a$$)

When I talk about leadership, I'm not talking about the head coach, because I don't believe real leadership should come from the head coach. This team lacks leadership on both sides of the ball as far as the offense and defense goes. Andre is great, but he's quiet....same thing with DeMeco. I'm talking about a person who'll get in somebody's face and lecture them when they screw up....and a player that will do it.

Showtime100
08-23-2009, 03:11 AM
When I talk about leadership, I'm not talking about the head coach, because I don't believe real leadership should come from the head coach. This team lacks leadership on both sides of the ball as fas as the offense and defense goes. Andre is great, but he's quiet....same thing with DeMeco.

As I said, slightly off track, but sorry about that CB. I wasn't directly responding to your post to the point that I shouldn't have quoted you. I'm tired, my bad.

Have a good Sunday all. :)

Carr Bombed
08-23-2009, 03:14 AM
As I said, slightly off track, but sorry about that CB. I wasn't directly responding to your post to the point that I shouldn't have quoted you. I'm tired, my bad.

Have a good Sunday all. :)

No problem Hey, you have a great Sunday as well :) pray for me will ya.....I'm still not over this loss.

Texanmike02
08-23-2009, 04:03 AM
This team will be a failure by ALL of our standards until we get a real DT. You need that guy who can wreak havoc on the center of the offense. Pressure from the sides doesn't bother QBs in this league near as much as pressure in their face and when running the ball, if the center of the line collapses on every play its a lot harder to set up a game plan. GET A DAMN DT. I've said that for years. At this point I would even overpay for an above average one.

Mike

HJam72
08-23-2009, 04:58 AM
Only preseason game that matters at all is #3, and it matters very little and counts none.

First half of next week is all I care about until 09-13.

Porky
08-23-2009, 06:34 AM
This team will be a failure by ALL of our standards until we get a real DT. You need that guy who can wreak havoc on the center of the offense. Pressure from the sides doesn't bother QBs in this league near as much as pressure in their face and when running the ball, if the center of the line collapses on every play its a lot harder to set up a game plan. GET A DAMN DT. I've said that for years. At this point I would even overpay for an above average one.

Mike

Hell, they have drafted 534 DT's in the first round already. What else you want? Oh you want someone decent? Well why didn't you say so before? :bat:

Thorn
08-23-2009, 06:45 AM
Yeah, DT position kind of sucked a big one last night. And next week they get to defend Adrian Peterson. That ought to be fun to watch. LOL

Maybe Cushing will help when he gets in. Maybe Okam steps up. Maybe this maybe that, but I'm still kind of concerned. We won't really know until the Jets game what's really up with this defense anyway. And in week two the Titans on the road. I'm predicting a 1-1 start to the season based on what I've seen so far. I think we beat the Jets and lose to the Titans to continue our road woes.

I have to agree with some of the posts here, that until we get a true NT on that D line, we are going to have problems.

El Tejano
08-23-2009, 09:49 AM
DelJuan needs to be the starter and Amobi needs the bench. Yeah I said it.

Wolf6151
08-23-2009, 10:20 AM
DelJuan needs to be the starter and Amobi needs the bench. Yeah I said it.

Agreed. I've been thinking the same thing, put the player out there who gives the most effort and gets the results and quit worrying about where they were drafted or how much money they make. DelJuan has proved that he plays hard and gets results.

Texans_Chick
08-23-2009, 11:28 AM
My take with a focus on defense as I am worried about the fixability this season of what's going on:


Saints 38, Texans 14; The Jonas Brothers keep it in perspective (http://blogs.chron.com/texanschick/2009/08/saints_38_texans_14_the_jonas.html)

In part:

Here's some chilling numbers for the first team last night (my quick math):

First down defense - averaged 6.18 yards allowed total, 6.8 yards per run
Second down defense - averaged 5.6 yards allowed total, 4 yards per run

I didn't look at the numbers for backups, but I'm not thinking they are much better. The Texans couldn't force 3rd down situations.

I think rookie DE Connor Barwin summed it up well (all post game quotes here):

"I think we need to be more stout against the run, once they run the play it is hard to attack the pass and attack the quarterback."

Football 101. If you can't stop the run on first down, you can't get teams into predictable passing downs. The team has discussed Barwin as having a role of a situational pass rusher on third down, but by necessity he may need to be more because otherwise he won't see the field. Hard to be a third down guy if you can't get to third down.

I don't see how they fix this.

Second Honeymoon
08-23-2009, 11:32 AM
Is anyone actually surprised? They hired their coordinator from within, that tells you all you need to know. Kubiak obviously has no friends that are decent defensive coaches and we all know Kubiak only hires his friends....

Until we get some real defensive coaches here and not Denver retreads and castoffs we will never be relevant.

I am truly worried about this year after that performance last night. Couldn't stop anything. embarassing.

Jackie Chiles
08-23-2009, 11:59 AM
This team will be a failure by ALL of our standards until we get a real DT. You need that guy who can wreak havoc on the center of the offense. Pressure from the sides doesn't bother QBs in this league near as much as pressure in their face and when running the ball, if the center of the line collapses on every play its a lot harder to set up a game plan. GET A DAMN DT. I've said that for years. At this point I would even overpay for an above average one.

Mike

I would settle for totally average. Just some DT who can hold his ground in the run game. Don't care what he brings to the table as far as pass rush because I like what I have seen from Barwin. If that guy can play with a lead and we stop the run he could really light up some QBs with Mario.

TheRealJoker
08-23-2009, 12:07 PM
I was at Reliant for the game but I just rewatched the starters on DVR. The main problem was the DT play. Okam was the starter at NT for this game alongside Amobi. Okoye just got blown off the LOS too many times, Okam didn't get manhandled but he made poor decisions that allowed the Saints to take advantage with cutbacks.

Okam's problem can be fixed with playing time and coaching. I'm afraid Okoye's needs to be fixed in the weight room, although Kollar can help by continuing to coach him on using his hands and getting his pads under the guard. We're probably gonna see Okam and Deljuan on running downs this season if Okoye keeps getting blown off the LOS, it certainly doesn't help Okoye's case for being drafted # 10 overall.

A secondary problem (literally) is that our secondary, mainly Fred Bennett, were trying to arm tackle way too much. This problem should be rectified when Dunta and Reeves return to the lineup but that doesn't solve the main problem which is that we're still pretty soft up the middle as long as Okoye is starting.

All in all, after watching the film i'm not as concerned as I was at the game. The corner's arm tackling will not be a big deal when Dunta and Reeves are back in the fold. Okam can be coached up, but Amobi is best used as a pass rushing DT at this stage of his career. We'd be best served going with Deljuan and Okam as the starting DTs for the season but I doubt we'll do that because of Amobi's paygrade.

Fox
08-23-2009, 12:15 PM
All in all, after watching the film i'm not as concerned as I was at the game. The corner's arm tackling will not be a big deal when Dunta and Reeves are back in the fold. Okam can be coached up, but Amobi is best used as a pass rushing DT at this stage of his career. We'd be best served going with Deljuan and Okam as the starting DTs for the season but I doubt we'll do that because of Amobi's paygrade.

Sad but true, I've held on to my glass of Okoye kool aid for too long. He doesn't need to be on the field unless it's an obvious passing down. Even then guys like Bulman are probably nearly as effective. Sigh.

TheRealJoker
08-23-2009, 12:24 PM
Sad but true, I've held on to my glass of Okoye kool aid for too long. He doesn't need to be on the field unless it's an obvious passing down. Even then guys like Bulman are probably nearly as effective. Sigh.

In hindsight it might not have been a great idea to draft a DT before they got their man strength. I have a feeling he'll be a good DT several years from now after more weight training but I dont think he'll be playing for the Texans when that time comes.

In the free agency era you cant afford to take project players in the top 10 especially when you're a team that's never had a winning season.

b0ng
08-23-2009, 12:28 PM
Is anyone actually surprised? They hired their coordinator from within, that tells you all you need to know. Kubiak obviously has no friends that are decent defensive coaches and we all know Kubiak only hires his friends....

Until we get some real defensive coaches here and not Denver retreads and castoffs we will never be relevant.

I am truly worried about this year after that performance last night. Couldn't stop anything. embarassing.

We should probably fire Kubiak huh?

Lucky
08-23-2009, 12:48 PM
A secondary problem (literally) is that our secondary, mainly Fred Bennett, were trying to arm tackle way too much. This problem should be rectified when Dunta and Reeves return to the lineup...
It was Glover Quin who missed the tackle on Mike Bell's long TD run. I thought Quin was supposed to be this big hitter who could possibly play FS? I don't see it.

Does anyone still think this team is better off without Dunta Robinson???

gtexan02
08-23-2009, 12:51 PM
So far we've played 2 preseason games. The majority of you guys sound like you're ready to throw in the towel already. No way to fix the defense this year? Are you kidding? Its the second freaking preseason game.

This is what preseason is for. To get your starters and backups some time to get it together. Last week Kyle Orton threw 3 INTs. The Broncos were freaking out. This week he had a ncie couple of series and ended with a TD. Players learn quickly during this time period. Lets not overexaggerate this.

Brando
08-23-2009, 12:56 PM
It was Glover Quin who missed the tackle on Mike Bell's long TD run. I thought Quin was supposed to be this big hitter who could possibly play FS? I don't see it.

Does anyone still think this team is better off without Dunta Robinson???

Our defense didn't get better until Dunta returned last season, IIRC. Dunta will help the defense against the run, that's a given.

Pantherstang84
08-23-2009, 01:13 PM
It was Glover Quin who missed the tackle on Mike Bell's long TD run. I thought Quin was supposed to be this big hitter who could possibly play FS? I don't see it.

Does anyone still think this team is better off without Dunta Robinson???

As long as his tender remains unsigned? Yes. Don't want a player who doesn't want to be here.

Pantherstang84
08-23-2009, 01:14 PM
So far we've played 2 preseason games. The majority of you guys sound like you're ready to throw in the towel already. No way to fix the defense this year? Are you kidding? Its the second freaking preseason game.

This is what preseason is for. To get your starters and backups some time to get it together. Last week Kyle Orton threw 3 INTs. The Broncos were freaking out. This week he had a ncie couple of series and ended with a TD. Players learn quickly during this time period. Lets not overexaggerate this.

Well you're no fun. :smiliedance:

Runner
08-23-2009, 01:39 PM
When I talk about leadership, I'm not talking about the head coach, because I don't believe real leadership should come from the head coach. This team lacks leadership on both sides of the ball as far as the offense and defense goes. Andre is great, but he's quiet....same thing with DeMeco. I'm talking about a person who'll get in somebody's face and lecture them when they screw up....and a player that will do it.


Does anyone still think this team is better off without Dunta Robinson???

For years players, coaches, even the media have acknowledged Dunta as the leader of the defense. Before his holdout, I think a large majority of fans appreciated this facet of his game as well.

The inability of the Texans and Dunta to come to contract terms will have more of an effect on the defense than just the absence of his physical skills at cornerback.

All rhetoric aside, no one should be surprised at this void in defensive leadership.

DocBar
08-23-2009, 01:52 PM
I can't watch the game til NFLC airs it at midnight tonight. I still can't believe how badly the D performed. I gotta agree with the guys who see this in the same light as '05. Some kinda bad karma or juju or whatever. I'm not gonna say much more til I actually watch the game.

nunusguy
08-23-2009, 03:39 PM
I am truly worried about this year after that performance last night.
Same here, it is very worrisome. But here's my question -
Why are we drafting 2 TEs in this years Draft when we didn't draft any DTs and we obviously have a far bigger need at that position than TE ?

b0ng
08-23-2009, 03:45 PM
Same here, it is very worrisome. But here's my question -
Why are we drafting 2 TEs in this years Draft when we didn't draft any DTs and we obviously have a far bigger need at that position than TE ?

Haven't they picked DT's in the 2 drafts prior to this one, and then a DT in the draft before that?

NitroGSXR
08-23-2009, 04:08 PM
It was Glover Quin who missed the tackle on Mike Bell's long TD run. I thought Quin was supposed to be this big hitter who could possibly play FS? I don't see it.

Does anyone still think this team is better off without Dunta Robinson???
To be fair, I saw Quin make quite a few plays. I was lucky to sit down really really low in the bowl on the side that Quin was playing. I saw Quin swat the ball away from Colston twice. He seemed to have a real good eye of being aware of where the ball is. He's definitely raw and was exploited on the big play but you've got to admit that run by Bell was pretty. He ran a slant towards the open side of the field. He found a hole and took off. I don't doubt that he gave up Bell's big play but Bell ran past about 6 other defenders before going past Quin. Mike Bell played like a man possessed last night. I believe he just ensured a slot in a crowded RB corps in New Orleans. It was his opportunity to shine and he made something of it. I'm going to take a real close eye on the game when it's in HD on NFLn at midnight tonight.

Speaking of a big hitter... I was wondering that throughout the whole game last night but I kept forgetting to ask my seatmate's thoughts on that. So... who in the heck do we have that's a big hitter? Who is the best hitter on our team right now? Dunta's not on our team yet so he doesn't count. Football doesn't seem right without having somebody out there who's making WRs alert to their surroundings. Our secondary/LBs seem to consist of many many many Morlon Greenwoods aka soft tacklers.

I'm with Lucky on this... We really really really need Dunta Robinson so so so much more than many of you guys think. Dunta says he'll be back for the first game... so... I'll take it and be happy with it. Sure wish he'd sign now but as long as he's back for the first game... I'll be a really happy fan.

New Orleans looked like the stronger team. I think they're going to jump out of the boat storming the NFL this season.

eriadoc
08-23-2009, 05:48 PM
To be fair, I saw Quin make quite a few plays. I was lucky to sit down really really low in the bowl on the side that Quin was playing. I saw Quin swat the ball away from Colston twice. He seemed to have a real good eye of being aware of where the ball is. He's definitely raw and was exploited on the big play but you've got to admit that run by Bell was pretty. He ran a slant towards the open side of the field. He found a hole and took off.

Yeah, I don't really have too much of an issue with a rookie FS missing a tackle in a preseason game. What I have a problem with is the bolded. He found hole after hole after hole. Our guys in the middle just sucked, and it had nothing to do with the coaches, nothing to do with scheme, and everything to do with them.

The arm tackling has been a persistent problem as well, and one that I'll be watching separately, but what happened to the idea that all these blue jerseys would be flying to the ball? Last night, they all flew away from the ball, at least on the LOS.

Lucky
08-23-2009, 08:37 PM
To be fair, I saw Quin make quite a few plays. I was lucky to sit down really really low in the bowl on the side that Quin was playing. I saw Quin swat the ball away from Colston twice.
I always try to be fair, and I have pretty good seats to see the game from, as well. There's not really a bad sight line at Reliant, from where I've been. And I've been just about everywhere in the stadium (other than luxury boxes) over the past 7 seasons.

I didn't see Quin defense a single pass. Be it on a pass intended for Colston or anyone else. NFL.com's gamebook (http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/54750/HST_Gamebook.pdf) credits Quin with zero passes defended. And the Saint's QBs were 6 of 6 on passes targeted to Colston.

I'm not picking on Quin (that would be Drew Brees). This is his 2nd career NFL preseason game. Just pointing out a misconception from the offseason that the Texans were set at CB and #23's services were no longer required.

TEXANRED
08-23-2009, 08:52 PM
I always try to be fair, and I have pretty good seats to see the game from, as well. There's not really a bad sight line at Reliant, from where I've been. And I've been just about everywhere in the stadium (other than luxury boxes) over the past 7 seasons.

I didn't see Quin defense a single pass. Be it on a pass intended for Colston or anyone else. NFL.com's gamebook (http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/54750/HST_Gamebook.pdf) credits Quin with zero passes defended. And the Saint's QBs were 6 of 6 on passes targeted to Colston.

I'm not picking on Quin (that would be Drew Brees). This is his 2nd career NFL preseason game. Just pointing out a misconception from the offseason that the Texans were set at CB and #23's services were no longer required.

Lets be even more fair. If this was a regular season game and we were not playing Dan Ononotanotherturnover, this game would have both teams scoring 40 points.

The Saints and Texans are mirror images of one another. High powered offenses with suspect D's.

I say so be it, we may have to score 40 points a game to win but who ever has the most points at the end of the day is declared the winner so that is all that really counts.

Fox
08-23-2009, 09:34 PM
I can't comment as well as those at the game on Quin as I was watching a 3x4 inch video stream, but every time I saw him he was trailing his man by a couple steps on an easy reception. It's early yet, but of the two rookie CB's McCain looks superior to me thus far based on preseason game performances.

NitroGSXR
08-23-2009, 09:44 PM
I always try to be fair, and I have pretty good seats to see the game from, as well. There's not really a bad sight line at Reliant, from where I've been. And I've been just about everywhere in the stadium (other than luxury boxes) over the past 7 seasons.

I didn't see Quin defense a single pass. Be it on a pass intended for Colston or anyone else. NFL.com's gamebook (http://www.nfl.com/liveupdate/gamecenter/54750/HST_Gamebook.pdf) credits Quin with zero passes defended. And the Saint's QBs were 6 of 6 on passes targeted to Colston.

I'm not picking on Quin (that would be Drew Brees). This is his 2nd career NFL preseason game. Just pointing out a misconception from the offseason that the Texans were set at CB and #23's services were no longer required.
I've always thought you were a fair poster. You may have taken that the wrong way. Maybe I don't have the meaning correct. My apologies either way.

Those were not my seats. I sit way up high. I just was lucky enough to sit down there last night. Pretty much as low as you can go. Thank you, fellow MB poster.

Never seen the gamebook before. I'll keep an eye on that. I'd always gone by the box score. Thanks for pointing it out to me.

I was looking at it and saw that the Saints completed 22 out of 35 passes. Only one was credited as a PD... Xavier's. Is PD a true stat that can be correctly counted? Seems like it's more of an opinion based sort of stat.

I know I saw Quin swat somebody. At midnight, I'll know for sure as per the HD game replay. It's really hard to get a good guage of the game when you're at the game itself.

I did get to see the replay of Bell's TD run. It sure looked like there was awesome blocking by the Saints all the way through. Bell blew by Wilson. Adibi and Quin were the two who ended up being in pursuit but they never really could have caught him.

jppaul
08-24-2009, 01:31 AM
Just a couple of observations from what I saw:

Just watched the first half. What was really disappointing to me, as everybody has been talking about, is Okoye just getting blown off the ball. UGLY. That was the catalyst for every terrible defensive play on a run. If he's not healthy get him out of there. If he is healthy and that is how he performs get him out of there.

Glover Quin was playing off today. Definitely he is a stronger player when he can press or can play up. He missed the tackle no if ands or buts about it. I can only say in his defense after years of watching him at UNM that he is a strong tackler.

Orvolosky doesn't inspire confidence. He looked like he was on autopilot on that 2nd quarter pick. The purpose of the pump is to have the CB bite, and then you fit it in under the safety. Instead, staring down the WR, knowing the CB didn't bite, and threw it anyway. Additionally it was thrown poorly and didn't even give Jones a chance.

They are definitely playing vanilla D, I didn't see more than a couple blitzes in that half, and the few I did were typically a simple mike blitz.

rmartin65
08-24-2009, 10:08 AM
I want a DT next year. Shoot, I want alot in next years draft. But next years class in very strong in DT's.

Ndamukong Suh, Nebraska
Gerald McCoy, Oklahoma
Marvin Austin, North Carolina
Vincent Oghobaase, Duke
Terrence Cody, Alabama
Lawrence Marsh, Florida
Arthur Jones, Syracuse
Jeff Owens, Georgia

These are all the DT's that I have ranked in the top 50 draft eligible players.

HOU-TEX
08-24-2009, 10:22 AM
Hearing the word "vanilla" desribe our defense again in the preseason = Here we go again Texan fans.

After a very good showing in practice Thursday they should be embarrased. Hell, I'm embarassed for them.

MightyTExan
08-24-2009, 10:43 AM
I hope it's not the case, but it seems to me like the defense didn't want to play for the coach.

Runner
08-24-2009, 10:48 AM
I hope it's not the case, but it seems to me like the defense didn't want to play for the coach.

I don't know about the "for the coach" part, but I don't understand how these players can "not show up to play". Are they that secure in their place on the team? Don't other players want to earn a spot on the team?

I don't understand the indifferent effort, if that's what it was.

thunderkyss
08-24-2009, 11:12 AM
I don't know about the "for the coach" part, but I don't understand how these players can "not show up to play". Are they that secure in their place on the team? Don't other players want to earn a spot on the team?

I don't understand the indifferent effort, if that's what it was.

If it were me, I'd know I don't have a shot at earning a starting spot, unless my name is Amobi Okoye. He's been the most under-performing DT on the team, and he's a lock to start. DelJuan & Cody showed they belong there as far as I'm concerned, but I now it won't happen.

Okam showed what he can do against KC... no doubt New Orleans exposed a few things.... you'd think he'd could still win the starting NT job if he has a strong showing next Monday Night. One or two bad plays should be okay.

Naming him the starter for the regular season, should also light a fire under TJ as well. For consistency, TJ might be the better player, and should get more snaps. But I'd name Okam the starter and let them fight it out.

Heck, on Run downs, I'd like to see big Travis & Okam on the line.

Vinny
08-24-2009, 12:11 PM
True! I think we have LEADERS on the team, but not alot of LEADERSHIP.

It'll come eventually with experience, but could have been gotten so much faster through FA.

Aaron Glenn still biting our ass :I
I think quite a bit of it is toughness. We don't play with attitude and the team isn't playing mean. We are loaded with nice guys who play a finesse game.

Texanmike02
08-25-2009, 04:46 AM
The problem isn't Okam or Okoye. Its BOTH of them. You can have one guy like AO as a 4/3 DT but you can't have two. And if you have AO on the line you better have a haynesworth to go with him. When we went after AO we should have had a plan for a big ass DT who will hold their own and occupy blockers and allow the cutter and slasher to do his job.

The second part of this is on AO. If you expect him to be ready to be an "anchor" on the line you're crazy. He is 22. He hasn't filled out. He was a project when we started this and we HAD to know that. I'll say it again. A DOMINANT DT... a BIG FAT COG IN THE MIDDLE OF THE LINE who can collapse the center/guard into the QB and break the line in half on a running play would take this defense (even with the dbs we have) and turn it into a 10-12ish defense. Without that we're going to be looking at a 18-22ish defense. 10-12 gets you to the playoffs 18-22 makes you, well the Texans.

Mike

Malloy
08-25-2009, 06:28 AM
I think quite a bit of it is toughness. We don't play with attitude and the team isn't playing mean. We are loaded with nice guys who play a finesse game.

I agree, it can be a 'toughness' issue, but in all fairness I think it's the mental toughness that's at fault, not the physical. Mental toughness can be build through experience though, which from my point of view is the 'real' issue with this team.

Can we speed the process up? Like signing Ray Lewis... that sort of thing?

Vinny
08-25-2009, 09:47 AM
The second part of this is on AO. If you expect him to be ready to be an "anchor" on the line you're crazy. He is 22. He hasn't filled out. He was a project when we started this and we HAD to know that.
If you don't expect him to produce till he is 24-25 (Men stop filling out around then) then you don't make this guy an early first round pick. Guys like Darryl Reevis and Patrick Willis are Pro Bowl caliber players and are already giving return on investment. Even if you are a 3 technique, you are expected to anchor and have some ability to handle NFL Guards in the running game. Right now, Okoye hasn't shown he can handle a NFL Guard in normal down and distance situations. Potential just means you haven't done it yet.

eriadoc
08-25-2009, 10:14 AM
If you don't expect him to produce till he is 24-25 (Men stop filling out around then) then you don't make this guy an early first round pick.

That was the argument at the time, and it looks like we may be looking at that. He might be the first really bad pick by Kubiak.

Marcus
08-25-2009, 11:57 AM
That was the argument at the time, and it looks like we may be looking at that. He might be the first really bad pick by Kubiak.

You never really know how good early picks are going to turn out. Does Vince Young come to mind?

As I recall, I wanted them to pick Willis. But, at the time, I never had a problem with the Okoye pick. What else are you going to on besides potential?

eriadoc
08-25-2009, 12:44 PM
You never really know how good early picks are going to turn out. Does Vince Young come to mind?

As I recall, I wanted them to pick Willis. But, at the time, I never had a problem with the Okoye pick. What else are you going to on besides potential?

Well, I never really blasted the Okoye pick, and was pretty excited about him as a player, especially being so young. But I do remember thinking at the time that if the team doesn't think he'll come around until a "normal" age, then this time as it was comprised at the time didn't really have the luxury of picking a long-term guy with its #1 pick. That's the kind of thing that teams with good personnel do. We didn't really have good personnel. Still don't, really.

Marcus
08-25-2009, 01:09 PM
But I do remember thinking at the time that if the team doesn't think he'll come around until a "normal" age, then this time as it was comprised at the time didn't really have the luxury of picking a long-term guy with its #1 pick.

I don't think the team would have drafted him if they thought that, early age aside. But what is he? 21 still, or did he just turn 22?

Assuming for the sake of argument that Vinny's correct, and he's currently the worst DL in the league against the run, it still a couple of years away before I call him a bad pick.

HOU-TEX
08-25-2009, 01:18 PM
I don't think the team would have drafted him if they thought that, early age aside. But what is he? 21 still, or did he just turn 22?

Assuming for the sake of argument that Vinny's correct, and he's currently the worst DL in the league against the run, it still a couple of years away before I call him a bad pick.

If that's the case, do you keep trotting him out on the field as a 3 down DT pending his NFL maturity?

I think most of us would agree that NFL coaches are in the know more than us fans, but it seems to me Okoye should be treated as Barwin will be this season. I think he can be productive as a pass rush DT while Okam, TJ, Cody and Robinson work running downs.

My .02

Carr Bombed
08-25-2009, 03:26 PM
Everytime I look at Amobi, I think about Patrick Willis in San Fran.

bckey
08-25-2009, 07:37 PM
Everytime I look at Amobi, I think about Patrick Willis in San Fran.


Tell me about it. Okoye's own college coach passed him up when we flip flopped draft positions with Atlanta in the Schaub trade. The Texans were suprised Okoye was still there and said he was the highest rated player on the board when they picked. The Texans obviously have a scouting problem when it comes to dt. Heck I wanted Vince Wilfork back when we took Dunta. Everybody was saying the 10th pick was too high for him at the time but maybe things would be different on the interior line right now. Of course maybe our coaching wouldn't have gotten what New England has out of him.