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CloakNNNdagger
08-19-2009, 07:57 AM
Never know what to make about the extent of injury reports, but

Jared Allen misses practice with leg/ankle/foot injury

With one high-profile offensive player dominating the NFL headlines in Minnesota and throughout the country on Tuesday, a high-profile defensive player missed practice with a leg or ankle or foot injury of some sort.

Allen suffered the injury during a team drill Monday night. He was slow to get off the ground, and then he limped off the field. He was later driven away in a car (not a cart) near the end of practice.

Teams are not required to provide injury information during the preseason, and thus the Vikings have provided no injury information regarding Allen.

Hervoyel
08-19-2009, 10:51 AM
That's unfortunate, sort of. I can't work up a lot of sympathy for the man after watching him blatantly hurt our QB after the play was over last season.

Not cheering for injury. I'd never cheer for anyone's injury. I'm just not feeling sympathetic. There's a small but important difference.

False Start
08-19-2009, 10:56 AM
That's unfortunate, sort of. I can't work up a lot of sympathy for the man after watching him blatantly hurt our QB after the play was over last season.

Not cheering for injury. I'd never cheer for anyone's injury. I'm just not feeling sympathetic. There's a small but important difference.

Good take. Like you, I never wish injury upon anyone, but I don't feel sorry for him at all.

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 11:01 AM
I guess I'm the odd ball. I actually like the way Allen plays. I think he's pretty damn good.

Am I happy at the two shots to Schaub's legs? Absolutely not, but I don't think he did it on purpose. I'd place just as much blame on Duane Brown. He was getting his ass schooled. I think Salaam even took a schooling from him.

NitroGSXR
08-19-2009, 11:42 AM
I guess I'm the odd ball. I actually like the way Allen plays. I think he's pretty damn good.

Am I happy at the two shots to Schaub's legs? Absolutely not, but I don't think he did it on purpose. I'd place just as much blame on Duane Brown. He was getting his ass schooled. I think Salaam even took a schooling from him.

That's why it's called football! It's just the nature of the game. I'm not mad at Allen either. He dominated Brown is exactly right. I do admit that I was kind of hoping to see some payback. Not necessarily go out and hurt him intentionally. Absolutely not. Just go out there and smack him down H-A-R-D on a play. In essence... school him.

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 11:49 AM
That's why it's called football! It's just the nature of the game. I'm not mad at Allen either. He dominated Brown is exactly right. I do admit that I was kind of hoping to see some payback. Not necessarily go out and hurt him intentionally. Absolutely not. Just go out there and smack him down H-A-R-D on a play. In essence... school him.

And I'd have no problem whatsoever with that. :texflag:

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 11:57 AM
I guess I'm the odd ball. I actually like the way Allen plays. I think he's pretty damn good.

Am I happy at the two shots to Schaub's legs? Absolutely not, but I don't think he did it on purpose. I'd place just as much blame on Duane Brown. He was getting his ass schooled. I think Salaam even took a schooling from him.

OUtisde of Mario Allen is my favorite DE in the league. I love watching the guy. He reminds me of one of those old school Steelers from the 70's or one of those Raiders types of players from the 70's. He brings it every week and is good at stopping the run and getting sacks and also makes big plays even when hurt. You gotta love an old school good ole boy type of player that wears boots and a cowboy hat that plays his ass off ever week and has the mean streak he does on the field. Not many like him in today's game.

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 12:10 PM
OUtisde of Mario Allen is my favorite DE in the league. I love watching the guy. He reminds me of one of those old school Steelers from the 70's or one of those Raiders types of players from the 70's. He brings it every week and is good at stopping the run and getting sacks and also makes big plays even when hurt. You gotta love an old school good ole boy type of player that wears boots and a cowboy hat that plays his ass off ever week and has the mean streak he does on the field. Not many like him in today's game.

Howie Long was my favorite DE to watch while I was playing DE in HS. I can see a little Howie Long in Allen. A relentless effort in attempt to get the job done. He might not always get there, but he's busting his ass every attempt.

Let's hope Barwin can become our Howie Long.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 12:19 PM
Howie Long was my favorite DE to watch while I was playing DE in HS. I can see a little Howie Long in Allen. A relentless effort in attempt to get the job done. He might not always get there, but he's busting his ass every attempt.

Let's hope Barwin can become our Howie Long.

Yeah, I'd like to know how many QB hurries Allen had last season, because I remember him causing a ton of plays to end early because he was about to sack the QB and the QB just got rid of it. Plus, the guy had two freaking safeties last year. Most guys don't ever even get one in their career and he got two in one season.

Double Barrel
08-19-2009, 12:27 PM
Allen is a dirty player, which is why he gets fined by the NFL (including the LATE HIT on Schaub).

Y'all are free to like who you want, but you're propping a guy that is known for late hits, and these have one purpose.

Do I wish injury on a player? No, but I do think that karma can be a ***** and would not feel sorry for the guy if an injury takes him out. Some people actually get what they deserve.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 12:35 PM
Allen is a dirty player, which is why he gets fined by the NFL (including the LATE HIT on Schaub).

Y'all are free to like who you want, but you're propping a guy that is known for late hits, and these have one purpose.

Do I wish injury on a player? No, but I do think that karma can be a ***** and would not feel sorry for the guy if an injury takes him out. Some people actually get what they deserve.

YOu don't remember him limping off the field last season and pointing at the player who hit him where he was calling the guy out for a cheap shot?

Double Barrel
08-19-2009, 12:43 PM
YOu don't remember him limping off the field last season and pointing at the player who hit him where he was calling the guy out for a cheap shot?


I'm not sure who you are talking about, but the NFL fined Allen $25,000 for the late hit on Schaub. Allen received a few fines last year for late hits. Dude is a dirty player.

Specnatz
08-19-2009, 12:43 PM
YOu don't remember him limping off the field last season and pointing at the player who hit him where he was calling the guy out for a cheap shot?

Yes and he whined to the media about the guy trying to ruin his career. he damn well did not think that when he did that to Schaub. It is OK if he does it to someone but no one can cut block him?

Besides what he did to Schaub was dive at his legs from behind not the front or the side.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 12:52 PM
Are people still going to be talking about the hit on Schaub ten years from now with Allen? Every QB in the league takes cheap shots from lineman. Had Schaub not even gotten hurt no one would even remember that hit. I swear it's like there can never be a discussion or mention of Allen's name ever in here without it turning into some bashing and cry baby session on the guy because of what happened to Schaub last season. So he plays balls to the wall. I get it. Players get hurt in football though, and that's part of the game. If Allen played on the Texans, people would worship the guy around here.

Double Barrel
08-19-2009, 12:57 PM
If talking about our QB taking a late hit and getting injured is somehow perceived as "crybaby" by you, then we don't have much to converse about. Pretty weak argument on your part to support your mancrush on Jared Allen.

IT WAS LAST SEASON, DUDE. Get it?

p.s. your last comment is lame. Texans fans were all over Travis Johnson for his Green rant. Being a Texans player does not excuse punk ass plays.

JDizzle
08-19-2009, 01:03 PM
p.s. your last comment is lame. Texans fans were all over Travis Johnson for his Green rant. Being a Texans player does not excuse punk ass plays.

I don't know what was worse about that situation, the taunting or the fact that TJ can't get his Wizard of Oz characters straight.

TJ need to be like Tin Man and get him some brains.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 01:03 PM
If talking about our QB taking a late hit and getting injured is somehow perceived as "crybaby" by you, then we don't have much to converse about. Pretty weak argument on your part to support your mancrush on Jared Allen.

IT WAS LAST SEASON, DUDE. Get it?

Does the complaining and bashing about the guy have to take place every single time the guy's name gets mentioned though? Every time? I mean hell, it's like a few of us can't even have a discussion regarding the guy or make comparisons about him and other top DE's without it turning into just that. And that wasn't an argument on my part DB, it was the truth. My argument I made for liking the guy as a player came way before you guys chimed in with the typical "Allen is a dirty scumbag" player rhetoric. I mean hell, I like to have discussions about other players sometimes and compare who is the best and why and him and Mario have been a pretty good comparison of who is better or who will be the top DE this season for a while now and it's an interesting discussion when it doesn't turn into just a "bash session."

Mike Kerns
08-19-2009, 01:05 PM
I would never wish pain or suffering to another human being...but Karma is a *****, isn't it Mr. Cheap Shot?

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 01:07 PM
FWIW, I don't think it was a late hit Allen was called for. I think it was for lunging into the legs of a QB.

Honoring Earl 34
08-19-2009, 01:12 PM
Allen said playing a little dirty makes him feel alive .

The funny thing about Allen is , he did 13 reps on the bench at the combine . I guess there's more than the bench press .

rmartin65
08-19-2009, 01:19 PM
I also like how Allen plays. He is a high energy guy, does what he can to get the job done. He pushes the envelope, and crosses the line sometimes. But he pays the fines, an I dont really hear him whining about paying the fines. I would love to have him on the team.

Double Barrel
08-19-2009, 01:19 PM
Does the complaining and bashing about the guy have to take place every single time the guy's name gets mentioned though? Every time? I mean hell, it's like a few of us can't even have a discussion regarding the guy or make comparisons about him and other top DE's without it turning into just that. And that wasn't an argument on my part DB, it was the truth. My argument I made for liking the guy as a player came way before you guys chimed in with the typical "Allen is a dirty scumbag" player rhetoric. I mean hell, I like to have discussions about other players sometimes and compare who is the best and why and him and Mario have been a pretty good comparison of who is better or who will be the top DE this season for a while now and it's an interesting discussion when it doesn't turn into just a "bash session."

I understand where you're coming from, Tex, and I have no desire to argue about it.

But this thread is not about rating DEs. It's about Jared Allen getting hurt, and beyond that, what else is there to say about it? YOU brought up him being one of your favorite players and propping him high, so by injecting that alone, you are inviting discussion beyond the specific point of this thread. At this point, it becomes a chance for anyone/everyone to voice an opinion.

And with Allen so fresh on Texans minds for cheap shotting our QB, do you really expect a bunch of love for the guy in a Texans forum?

FWIW, I don't think it was a late hit Allen was called for. I think it was for lunging into the legs of a QB.

According to this article (http://www.morganhilltimes.com/sports/250975-25000-fine-no-suspension-for-jared-allen), it says "Allen was fined $50,000 for two late hits earlier this month on Houston quarterback Matt Schaub, one that injured his knee."

Perhaps that lunging was considered a late hit by the NFL? idonno:

Here's the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcqjClE7cuk) of the play for a refresh.

JDizzle
08-19-2009, 01:31 PM
Perhaps that lunging was considered a late hit by the NFL? idonno:

Here's the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcqjClE7cuk) of the play for a refresh.

You can't go at a QB's knees like that, late or not. It certainly looks late to me, and the first hit looks similar to the hit that put Carson Palmer out for a long time. It could have been much, much worse.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 01:33 PM
I understand where you're coming from, Tex, and I have no desire to argue about it.

But this thread is not about rating DEs. It's about Jared Allen getting hurt, and beyond that, what else is there to say about it? YOU brought up him being one of your favorite players and propping him high, so by injecting that alone, you are inviting discussion beyond the specific point of this thread. At this point, it becomes a chance for anyone/everyone to voice an opinion.

And with Allen so fresh on Texans minds for cheap shotting our QB, do you really expect a bunch of love for the guy in a Texans forum?



According to this article (http://www.morganhilltimes.com/sports/250975-25000-fine-no-suspension-for-jared-allen), it says "Allen was fined $50,000 for two late hits earlier this month on Houston quarterback Matt Schaub, one that injured his knee."

Perhaps that lunging was considered a late hit by the NFL? idonno:

Here's the video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcqjClE7cuk) of the play for a refresh.

I understand why some people may not like the guy and that I'm obviously in the minority as far as this board is concerned, but at some point people need to just move on and let go of what happened last season the same way they should probably let go of the deep hatred for Reggie Bush. He's another guy where the minute his name gets mentioned around here it quickly becomes a dog pile of bashing on the guy. And I'm not even a Bush fan either. All I'm trying to point out is that with certain players around here there can't ever be a civil objective discussion taking place where comparisons are made with other players because of a deep rooted hatred for this player or that player for certain reasons. I mean, I've been guilty of it as well from time to time, so I won't act like I'm some exception here, but at some point people just need to let go of certain stuff from the past that we moved on from as a team and a franchise. I'd like to think that we're a much more confident and stronger fan base now with the direction the team is going in, and stuff from seasons ago is irrelevant at this point.

And just to point something out as well DB, people on here aren't exactly above and beyond the cheap shots. It simply matters who the guy is that's getting the shots taken or who is dishing it out. There have been several people in here begging and wishing for Brett Favre to get plummed or cheap shot by someone where his season ends from injury.

Specnatz
08-19-2009, 01:40 PM
I understand why some people may not like the guy and that I'm obviously in the minority as far as this board is concerned, but at some point people need to just move on and let go of what happened last season the same way they should probably let go of the deep hatred for Reggie Bush. He's another guy where the minute his name gets mentioned around here it quickly becomes a dog pile of bashing on the guy. And I'm not even a Bush fan either. All I'm trying to point out is that with certain players around here there can't ever be a civil objective discussion taking place where comparisons are made with other players because of a deep rooted hatred for this player or that player for certain reasons. I mean, I've been guilty of it as well from time to time, so I won't act like I'm some exception here, but at some point people just need to let go of certain stuff from the past that we moved on from as a team and a franchise. I'd like to think that we're a much more confident and stronger fan base now with the direction the team is going in, and stuff from seasons ago is irrelevant at this point.

I could understand this a little better if it had been at the very least a full year removed from his duchebaggery cheap shot and his asshatery mouth after the game.

It is not like it was a long time ago.

As far as Reggie Bush goes, I like Notre Dame so I have a lot more reasons to hate that over paid worthless expensive scatback

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 01:46 PM
I could understand this a little better if it had been at the very least a full year removed from his duchebaggery cheap shot and his asshatery mouth after the game.

It is not like it was a long time ago.

As far as Reggie Bush goes, I like Notre Dame so I have a lot more reasons to hate that over paid worthless expensive scatback

What difference does it make to you though, since the Texans didn't draft him? He's on the Saints and he's there problem, not ours. WHy is it his fault, because there was a ton of hype surrounding him and he was drafted early on? And I don't see what being a ND fan has to do with Bush in any way really. It's not like Bush is out there running his mouth to the public all the time like many other players or committing a bunch of crimes.

Specnatz
08-19-2009, 01:51 PM
What difference does it make to you though, since the Texans didn't draft him? He's on the Saints and he's there problem, not ours. WHy is it his fault, because there was a ton of hype surrounding him and he was drafted early on? And I don't see what being a ND fan has to do with Bush in any way really. It's not like Bush is out there running his mouth to the public all the time like many other players or committing a bunch of crimes.

Actually Reggie Bush attended USC, a rival of ND. He also allegedly took money and his family lived rent free in a very expensive condo all very serious actions, yet the NCAA will not punish their cash cow USC. So that gives me more reasons to hate the guy.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 01:56 PM
Actually Reggie Bush attended USC, a rival of ND. He also allegedly took money and his family lived rent free in a very expensive condo all very serious actions, yet the NCAA will not punish their cash cow USC. So that gives me more reasons to hate the guy.

Okay, that is fair enough. I think his parents and the NCAA deserve more bashing than anyone out of that though. Sure Bush deserves some, but that was Bush's parents who used their kid as a way of moving themselves up financially and set the precedent that it was okay to screw over the guy that they made that deal with. Bush's parents should really be ashamed of themselves there.

And I think you should be more upset with the NCAA more than anybody. The NCAA is the culprit that refuses to sanction USC in any way for their multiple infractions with guys like Bush and Mayo. That's the NCAA that is corrupt there. But at the same time the corrupt NCAA also has some shady deal with ND involving the BcS as well, so it's not like ND is completely an innocent school either.

Lucky
08-19-2009, 02:10 PM
I understand why some people may not like the guy and that I'm obviously in the minority as far as this board is concerned, but at some point people need to just move on and let go of what happened last season the same way they should probably let go of the deep hatred for Reggie Bush. He's another guy where the minute his name gets mentioned around here it quickly becomes a dog pile of bashing on the guy.
Likewise, the Dunta Robinson bashing should cease and the fans should just move on.


Not!!!

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 02:12 PM
Likewise, the Dunta Robinson bashing should cease and the fans should just move on.


Not!!!

Uuuuummm NO Lucky. Dunta is currently needed really badly for this team's success this season and he's at home pouting away and smoking blunts for all we know. We have no idea what he's doing. Dunta will relentlessly get bashed until he come back to the team and plays well. The Texans organization and fan base has been very good to him and he's screwing us all over.

Like you said, NOT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Lucky
08-19-2009, 02:19 PM
Dunta will relentlessly get bashed...
Understood. Then allow those among us that believe that Jared Allen is a slimeball who deserves everything negative that comes his way to state their opinion without a lecture from the time police. OK?

Texan_Bill
08-19-2009, 02:21 PM
Personally, I think Allen is dirty and did take a cheap shot on Schaub. That said, I don't care about the guy enough to bicker back and forth whether he did or didn't.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcqjClE7cuk

CloakNNNdagger
08-19-2009, 02:26 PM
I understand where you're coming from, Tex, and I have no desire to argue about it.

But this thread is not about rating DEs. It's about Jared Allen getting hurt, and beyond that, what else is there to say about it? YOU brought up him being one of your favorite players and propping him high, so by injecting that alone, you are inviting discussion beyond the specific point of this thread. At this point, it becomes a chance for anyone/everyone to voice an opinion.

And with Allen so fresh on Texans minds for cheap shotting our QB, do you really expect a bunch of love for the guy in a Texans forum?


Boy, this thread has certainly taken a turn from what I intended. I was trying to point out that there my be one less obstacle when we meet the Jets.


That being said, I'll make one point. When a player develops a pattern and reputation of a "dirty player," opposing players can tend to play TENTATIVELY just to avoid injury. This, in itself, can bolster the dirty player's success and stats...........a self-propogating vicious circle. Having watched Allen since his Kansas City days, he has gotten away with murder for a long time............and, to be sure, the refs and league have addressed only a meager few of those happenings.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 02:42 PM
Understood. Then allow those among us that believe that Jared Allen is a slimeball who deserves everything negative that comes his way to state their opinion without a lecture from the time police. OK?

Completely different situations and not comparable at all. Dunta is a player on the Texans who has currently turned his back on the team while being offered more money than he deserves. And he is "needed' right now. And there are tons of objective discussions that take place surrounding Dunta that go for several pages long that aren't just bash fests. They're all pretty much conversations that are discussing the time line of events up until now that are very important to the Texans team.

Allen is just a guy on another team who has nothing to do with the Texans and has now became a side show player in here to only become mentioned just so tons of posters can pile on and call him a bunch of names. When there can't even be any sort of objective discussion that takes place surrounding the guy from a football stand point, well it becomes pointless to even mention the guy in any form, since it will just be bash session. Some of us in here like to compare different players at their positions from time to time and discuss who is better or who has taken a step back or made strides at improving from when they were drafted. I'm not trying to tell anyone who to like or who to dislike or for what reasons, but it does get a little tiring from time to time when certain players can't even be mentioned or discussed without it becoming a tirade of stuff like "That guy sucks, or He's a total dirt bag." Hou-Tex and I were having a decent discussion making comparisons and all, and of course it had to get hi-jacked by the typical "I hate the guy" stuff. And it comes off a little petty when people are mad about what happened to Schuab, but then there's a Favre thread going on right now where several people wish for Favre to get cheap shot and have his season ended by injury. But go ahead and carry on, I've said enough in this thread and I'll make my exit since I'm in the minority obviously, and let you guys call him a dirty player and mention the Schaub incident for the 367th time which to my knowledge no one has ever disagreed with.

Double Barrel
08-19-2009, 02:44 PM
And just to point something out as well DB, people on here aren't exactly above and beyond the cheap shots. It simply matters who the guy is that's getting the shots taken or who is dishing it out. There have been several people in here begging and wishing for Brett Favre to get plummed or cheap shot by someone where his season ends from injury.

And my position still doesn't change. I even called attention to it in that thread.

As far as excusing it if it was in a Texans uni, I disagree. We have one of the best DEs in the league right now, and he doesn't need this cheap shot crap to be good. But, if Mario started doing it, I'd call him out for it, as well.

It's a rough enough sport without players cheating and playing dirty. That's just punk-assed biatch stuff to me, and indicates a player that can't get it done legally, perhaps because he lacks something in his skills. JMO

Boy, this thread has certainly taken a turn from what I intended. I was trying to point out that there my be one less obstacle when we meet the Jets.


That being said, I'll make one point. When a player develops a pattern and reputation of a "dirty player," opposing players can tend to play TENTATIVELY just to avoid injury. This, in itself, can bolster the dirty player's success and stats...........a self-propogating vicious circle. Having watched Allen since his Kansas City days, he has gotten away with murder for a long time............and, to be sure, the refs and league have addressed only a meager few of those happenings.

Really good points, CnD.

infantrycak
08-19-2009, 03:24 PM
Are people still going to be talking about the hit on Schaub ten years from now with Allen? Every QB in the league takes cheap shots from lineman.

FWIW, I don't think it was a late hit Allen was called for. I think it was for lunging into the legs of a QB.

According to this article (http://www.morganhilltimes.com/sports/250975-25000-fine-no-suspension-for-jared-allen), it says "Allen was fined $50,000 for two late hits earlier this month on Houston quarterback Matt Schaub, one that injured his knee."

Some folks may bring it up ten years from now - complain about that then. This is the very next season coming up on the very next time we play that team.

The other thing was it wasn't just one play. He did the same thing twice. With all due respect to DB's article, it wasn't the timing, it was because he went at the knees (they quote the rule in the video link DB provided) was a point of emphasis (not a rule change) that had gone over with everyone in the league. It was cheap, he knew and then he repeated it. You can be both a cheap shot player and a great player you know?

Hooston Texan
08-19-2009, 03:45 PM
Allen's $50,000 cheapshots on Schaub effectively ended our playoff hopes last season, and we have not yet started the next one. So, no, I don't think the time for complaints has expired. I doubt you will ever be able to say the name Kimo von Oehloffen to a Cincinnatian or Bernard Pollard to a Bostonian without getting a dirty word in response. Heck, New York Ranger fans still chant "Potvan sucks" to this day over something that happened in the 1970s.

Allen is a great pass-rusher (who abused our tackles last season) with an acknowledged penchant for dirty play. I'm not rooting for the guy to be hurt, but, if he misses our game, that decreases the likelihood that one of our guys gets hurt in a meaningless contest. The game with the Vikes is where we plan to play the starters for at least a half, and we'll all be sweating injuries the whole time.

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 04:11 PM
Allen's $50,000 cheapshots on Schaub effectively ended our playoff hopes last season, and we have not yet started the next one. So, no, I don't think the time for complaints has expired. I doubt you will ever be able to say the name Kimo von Oehloffen to a Cincinnatian or Bernard Pollard to a Bostonian without getting a dirty word in response. Heck, New York Ranger fans still chant "Potvan sucks" to this day over something that happened in the 1970s.

Allen is a great pass-rusher (who abused our tackles last season) with an acknowledged penchant for dirty play. I'm not rooting for the guy to be hurt, but, if he misses our game, that decreases the likelihood that one of our guys gets hurt in a meaningless contest. The game with the Vikes is where we plan to play the starters for at least a half, and we'll all be sweating injuries the whole time.

I think starting 0-4 had more to do with it than Allen's fined hits on Schaub.

I agree with your last paragraph, except the 1's will likely play at least 2.5-3 quarters

NitroGSXR
08-19-2009, 04:39 PM
It's a rough enough sport without players cheating and playing dirty. That's just punk-assed biatch stuff to me, and indicates a player that can't get it done legally, perhaps because he lacks something in his skills. JMO


I have a sincere question...

Do you think that the rules from back in the 70's and the rules today affect the play of these guys? Like for example, Jack Tatum. He pushed all the rules to the envelope. He also was responsible for the NFL establishing several rules that help protect players. What is the difference between a roll on a leg and a two armed helmet slam into an opponents neck area.

Side note... I think Tatum is the only guy to ever make Earl hobble off the field. Earl won the battle simply because he got the TD but he had to be helped off the field. Phew. Talk about a major collision. Earl Campbell and Jack Tatum. Wow!

Anyway, my point about Tatum is that he would do helmet to helmet hits on a regular basis. That's now illegal. Should Jack Tatum be considered a dirty player? Similar hits like the one Drayton Florence put on Schaub.

What I'm trying to say is that we'll never see another Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott, or Jack Tatum simply because the rules aren't allowing for it anymore. I really think that Allen is being blasted a little too hard on this board but I do respect everyone's opinion on that. I think much ado is being made over players who violate rules that were not there a few years ago. It's football. Man up or go learn how to play baseball.

Showtime100
08-19-2009, 04:44 PM
I have a sincere question...

Do you think that the rules from back in the 70's and the rules today affect the play of these guys? Like for example, Jack Tatum. He pushed all the rules to the envelope. He also was responsible for the NFL establishing several rules that help protect players. What is the difference between a roll on a leg and a two armed helmet slam into an opponents neck area.

Side note... I think Tatum is the only guy to ever make Earl hobble off the field. Earl won the battle simply because he got the TD but he had to be helped off the field. Phew. Talk about a major collision. Earl Campbell and Jack Tatum. Wow!

Anyway, my point about Tatum is that he would do helmet to helmet hits on a regular basis. That's now illegal. Should Jack Tatum be considered a dirty player? Similar hits like the one Drayton Florence put on Schaub.

What I'm trying to say is that we'll never see another Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott, or Jack Tatum simply because the rules aren't allowing for it anymore. I really think that Allen is being blasted a little too hard on this board but I do respect everyone's opinion on that. I think much ado is being made over players who violate rules that were not there a few years ago. It's football. Man up or go learn how to play baseball.

Earl was never the same after that very hit. Sorry about the sidestep, carry on.

Double Barrel
08-19-2009, 04:50 PM
Good questions, Nitro, and like infantrycak said earlier: "You can be both a cheap shot player and a great player you know?"

Rule changes go both ways, though. Defensive players have had rules changes their way, like the chop block being banned.

I think intent is where my line is crossed for being a "dirty player". Within this context, it appeared that Allen was going for Schaub's knees, which serves no purpose other than to cause injury.

As far as Jack Tatum, that's kind of a softball thrown up there, yeah? Type "Jack Tatum dirty player" into Google and see what you get. A sampling:

Top 10 Dirtiest Athletes (http://worldmysteries9.blogspot.com/2009/03/top-10-dirtiest-athletes.html)

Jack Tatum – With a nickname like “The Assassin” you knew Jack Tatum was going to make an appearance on this list. In his first professional game against the Baltimore Colts, Tatum knocked tight ends John Mackey and Tom Mitchell out of the game. This would be the first in a series of big hits that would define Tatum’s career. In 1978 Tatum nailed New England Patriots wide receiver Darryl Stingley, as he was going up for a pass in a pre-season game and left him paralyzed from the waist down. What makes him really dirty? He doesn’t have any regrets.

In his own words: Tatum proclaimed himself a headhunter and assassin on the field, which made the devastating results of the hit seem all the more intentional. In his 1980 autiobiography, Tatum wrote, "I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault."

NitroGSXR
08-19-2009, 05:35 PM
Good questions, Nitro, and like infantrycak said earlier: "You can be both a cheap shot player and a great player you know?"

Rule changes go both ways, though. Defensive players have had rules changes their way, like the chop block being banned.

I think intent is where my line is crossed for being a "dirty player". Within this context, it appeared that Allen was going for Schaub's knees, which serves no purpose other than to cause injury.

As far as Jack Tatum, that's kind of a softball thrown up there, yeah? Type "Jack Tatum dirty player" into Google and see what you get. A sampling:



In his own words: Tatum proclaimed himself a headhunter and assassin on the field, which made the devastating results of the hit seem all the more intentional. In his 1980 autiobiography, Tatum wrote, "I like to believe that my best hits border on felonious assault."
The hit on Stingley was a clean hit according to the rules back then. It's why he refused to apologize for it. It mostly makes him a dickwad for not showing remorse but not necessarily a dirty player. Like the quote you had... having no regrets is what makes him a dirty player. Would that be a fair assumption? I don't really think so. Jim Tressell has even instituted the Jack Tatum hit of the week award for his college boys. That started in 2001 so Tatum's impact has had recent implications.

As for the Allen hit... I've seen worse. It's why I'm so meh about it. That's football.

Anyway, thread hijack over. Sorry, guys! Appreciate the response, DB!

infantrycak
08-19-2009, 06:07 PM
Anyway, my point about Tatum is that he would do helmet to helmet hits on a regular basis. That's now illegal. Should Jack Tatum be considered a dirty player? Similar hits like the one Drayton Florence put on Schaub.

Dirty to me is defined by the rules. Helmet to helmet used to be legal - no judgment against any of the players from that era. Deacon Jones got half his sacks by head slapping OT's - perfectly fine because it was legal. But what Florence and Allen did was against the rules. Here is the key - players can fairly be called upon to maximize their efforts against what is legal but they can't anticipate the handful of times a year someone is going to decide to violate the rules. That makes things which were once legal but aren't any longer even more dangerous than when they were legal.

What I'm trying to say is that we'll never see another Steve Atwater, Ronnie Lott, or Jack Tatum simply because the rules aren't allowing for it anymore.

We won't see the exact same plays, but I absolutely think we still see the same level of violence and collision.

That's football.

Football is a game of rules and is defined by the then current rules.

Showtime100
08-19-2009, 06:52 PM
Jared is dirty as Hell. His acting role as Randy on My Name Is Earl was priceless, though not much of an acting stretch. :whip: