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View Full Version : Will someone explain why people hate T.O.???


Fiddy
02-07-2005, 11:44 PM
I dont and never will understand the critism of him. He goes out and gives it 100% on the game field and on the practice field. What else do you want??? We rip players for not going full speed or quitting on their team but every play T.O. plays puts all his energy into it. He run blocks, goes full speed on routes and never gives up on a play. Yeah, he has celebrations that turn off some people but he practices all day, every day and game day is his turn to act a kid and have some fun. I've yet to see someone get hurt by a celebration of him. Maybe Ray Lewis' feelings, but Ray does his stupid dance before the game has even started!!!! He still hasnt had a philly cheesesteak because it would ruin his diet. If you dont want T.O. to celebrate, then keep him from getting the ball.

Rarely does he ever get critized by teammates but he is still public enemy number one. I still dont see how he was being "selfish" and would be a "distraction" if he played in the Super Bowl. The Patriots couldnt stop him on one ankle. 9 catches for about 120 yards. 6 weeks removed from surgery. How do you not like the guy??? He said something along the lines of "If Favre played with a broken ankle, everyone would call him a warrior, but I do it and I am selfish." He isnt wrong. Most critized him for trying to rush back but if it wasnt for him, we may of witnessed the first shut out in Super Bowl history.

What else does he have to do to get people from bashing him???

dan7
02-07-2005, 11:57 PM
I just read Terrell Owen's autobiography.....quite a story. I admire him as an athlete....

YodAa
02-08-2005, 12:29 AM
I don't blame him for rushing back to the SB, I understand why he did it. It's not everyday your playing at a SB and you might not get as lucky as the players on Pats in going 3 times (so far) and after your lil monologue Fiddy I actually like the guy and would choose him over Randy Moss anyday(now hes a distraction)

blockhead83
02-08-2005, 12:50 AM
I personally have no beef with T.O., I think he's probably the second best receiver in the NFL, and I like the way he plays.

However, you don't have to look far to see why there are people who hate the guy. For those who don't like to see players trying to be "bigger than the game", T.O.'s cries for attention over his career have really caused problems. For instance, making the pose on the Dallas' Star in the center of the field, pulling out a sharpie in the endzone, b*tching out his offensive coordinator on the sidelines (that's a no-no that I actually consider a problem as well), and starting controversy with Jeff Garcia in San Fran. Just a hunch, but starting **** with the guy who's throwing you the football isn't a very bright idea. I didn't watch all too many of his games, but I remember a knock on him when he was with the 49ers was he WOULD give up on plays; stop blocking too early; not always give 100%.

I like him, he's a great athlete, but I can think of alot of reasons why others don't.

SheTexan
02-08-2005, 01:10 AM
However, you don't have to look far to see why there are people who hate the guy. For those who don't like to see players trying to be "bigger than the game", T.O.'s cries for attention over his career have really caused problems. Just a hunch, but starting **** with the guy who's throwing you the football isn't a very bright idea. I didn't watch all too many of his games, but I remember a knock on him when he was with the 49ers was he WOULD give up on plays; stop blocking too early; not always give 100%

You hit the nail on the head! A selfish, self centered player, IMHO! It's all about TO! He was never a team player when he was with the Niners. All his whining and attention getting antics were distracting to the rest of the team. I can guarantee you, if the Eagles had won the SB, TO would have taken all the credit! The Eagles made it through the playoffs without TO, I believe they would have done just as well, if not better, without him, in the SB. We will never know!

WWJD
02-08-2005, 08:51 AM
He's a drama queen.

TheOgre
02-08-2005, 08:54 AM
The Eagles are my second favorite team after the Texans. I was really disappointed when he ended up with the Ravens. I was overjoyed when the trade was rescended. Is T.O. irritating at times? Absolutely. Does he do everything he can on the field to win? Absolutely.

Cut the guy some slack. It isn't like he participated in murdering some guys then wins Defensive Player of the Year.

MarleyFan
02-08-2005, 10:15 AM
Because he was on the 49ers!

SheTexan
02-08-2005, 11:05 AM
Because he was on the 49ers!

I, for one, was ELATED when he left the NINERS! He gave my second fav team a bad rep long enough! SO LONG, FAREWELL, don't let the door hit you in the a** TO!!!!!!

TexansTrueFan
02-08-2005, 11:35 AM
could be cause he's a selfish player, shows off, runs his mouth, wears spandex :thud:. Its just when ya hear him talk he never talks about the TEAM he always talks about T.O, and i'm sorry but TO didnt get the eagles to the superbowl it was the OL, DL, QB, WRs, LBs, CBs, SS, FS, RB, FB, and he fails to mention any of them when speaking about the "team" so its like TO is the only guy on the team !

Fiddy
02-08-2005, 04:07 PM
For instance, making the pose on the Dallas' Star in the center of the field, pulling out a sharpie in the endzone...That never happens if someone can stop him. Stop him and you wont hear from him.

b*tching out his offensive coordinator on the sidelines (that's a no-no that I actually consider a problem as well), and starting controversy with Jeff Garcia in San Fran. Just a hunch, but starting **** with the guy who's throwing you the football isn't a very bright idea.He wants the ball. You should of gotten the ball in San Fran: Tia Streets or T.O.??? He was yelling at his offensive coordinator cause he knows when he has the ball in his hands, his team as the best shot of winning. I will agree that the Jeff Garcia thing is silly....

could be cause he's a selfish player, shows off, runs his mouth, wears spandex :thud:. Its just when ya hear him talk he never talks about the TEAM he always talks about T.O, and i'm sorry but TO didnt get the eagles to the superbowl it was the OL, DL, QB, WRs, LBs, CBs, SS, FS, RB, FB, and he fails to mention any of them when speaking about the "team" so its like TO is the only guy on the team !Not buying this selfish comment. Who should have the ball: FredEx, Pinkston or T.O.???

Do you like Ray Lewis TexansTrueFan because he shows off BEFORE THE GAME HAS EVEN STARTED!!!

What's wrong with a little confidence??? He knows he is the best WR in the NFL and if you dont stop him, he is going to let you hear about it. If you want to stop his yapping, stop him on the field.

And so what if he likes to wear tights...

What do you mean he fails to mention the team. He praised everyone after they won the NFC Championship game and promised Philly that they would win it without him...

"We hang together as much as anybody, and he's a good guy," said Eagles receiver Freddie Mitchell. "There's a misconception about him being this selfish player who is hard to get along with. He's a good guy. People don't really know him or understand him. The guy's a competitor. He works hard. He gets a lot of heat because he's in the limelight. But it's not like he's shooting people or anything." http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/8002989/1

I, for one, was ELATED when he left the NINERS! He gave my second fav team a bad rep long enough! SO LONG, FAREWELL, don't let the door hit you in the a** TO!!!!!!And now the 49ers have the first pick in the draft...

WWJD
02-08-2005, 04:48 PM
George Teague knocked Terrell on his butt and I believe he got fined. I know for him it was worth it though.

I don't know. I've always said that Texans fans that think Terrell is so great might not think so if he disrespected the logo here.
I think his plan is to do whatever he can to make sure he's on the top of ESPN highlight film even if it's not football related.

And as for the Niners they weren't going to be great forever. He burned too many bridges there. He'll do the same wherever he goes because it's just his nature.

Fiddy
02-08-2005, 05:04 PM
George Teague knocked Terrell on his butt and I believe he got fined. I know for him it was worth it though.Teague could of saved himself a 50 yard sprint if he would of stopped T.O. from getting into the endzone...

WWJD
02-08-2005, 05:05 PM
I don't remember the play other than the stupid way Terrell acted.

Teague was a safety. It might not have even been his play. I don't know.

But it was sure funny when he knocked Terrell about 3 yards off the star. And he said it was worth the fine.

It's too bad Terrell can't just be great on football skills alone and let that be. I saw Jerry Rice play a few times and he was magnificent and he didn't act like that. He just played and excelled. He didn't try all the silliness.

AJ does the same. Just play. You don't have to make a big deal out of it. People will see you're great if you are.

SESupergenius
02-08-2005, 05:34 PM
I actually like T.O. He's a little mouthy, but the guys stays out of trouble with the law, does his job and wants to win. I'v seen several interviews where he's just trying to explain himself and say things are overblown. He's no Dion, but he likes to have a good time playing the game. Other than the games and the trash talking he does there, he's kept his nose clean. That should be the mark that players set. Play the game, do your best, and have a little fun, don't hurt people and stay clean. Gee that sounds like all of my friends.

Marcus
02-08-2005, 05:36 PM
That never happens if someone can stop him. Stop him and you wont hear from him.

Oh, so because he's a highly talented receiver, it gives him the right to act like a childish self-centered punk, huh? Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.

Owens is paid to be a receiver and catch the ball. He's not paid to berate the coaches on the sideline. He's not paid to sign autographs in the middle of the game. He's not paid to try and call the plays and coach the quarterbacks. He just needs to shut his pie-hole, and keep it shut, and he needs to stop his never-ending search for the opportunity to make a spectacle out of himself.

If he would just play football, I wouldn't have a problem with him. But as it is, I was rooting on Sunday for either Mike Vrabel or Tedy Bruschi, or Willie McGinest to snap the punk's leg off. And just because he played better then anyone expected made absolutely no difference to me. He's still a punk.

TexansTrueFan
02-08-2005, 06:04 PM
ok first of all fiddy ray lewis shows intensity, he dont pull out shapries, our make big scenes off the field. Intensity/dancing is good, but what T.O does is showboating for himself not the team. Ray wanted to bring Deion in to help the team, owens wants the ball thrown his way to help his stats. You cant compare a PLAYER like Ray Lewis (Defense) to a "character" like Terrell Owens (offense). Bad comparison Fiddy !

Fiddy
02-08-2005, 06:11 PM
ok first of all fiddy ray lewis shows intensity, he dont pull out shapries, our make big scenes off the field. Intensity/dancing is good, but what T.O does is showboating for himself not the team. Ray wanted to bring Deion in to help the team, owens wants the ball thrown his way to help his stats. You cant compare a PLAYER like Ray Lewis (Defense) to a "character" like Terrell Owens (offense). Bad comparison Fiddy !Yeah I cant compare Lewis to T.O. becuase as SESupergenius and T.O. himself pointed out, T.O doesnt have a murder charge to his name but Lewis does. And I classify being caught up in a murder trail a big scene off the field. Owens wants the ball thrown his way to help his team win. Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston or T.O. Which one would you rather throw the ball, too???

Yes, Lewis brought in Dieon but who did he want first??? That's right. He wanted T.O.


(T.O. dances too: The pom-poms)

Oh, so because he's a highly talented receiver, it gives him the right to act like a childish self-centered punk, huh? Sorry, that doesn't fly with me.How is he self-centered???

WWJD: What did you think of Irvin??? He had a big mouth. Also, didnt Emmitt Smith mimick T.O. and go to the star??? Shouldnt of Smith been the "better" man and stayed out of it???

Boxscore
02-08-2005, 06:17 PM
I love to watch TO. He came to play on Sunday to help the Eagles in their quest for the super bowl. He proved to his doctors that he could do it. I have heard people compare him with Randy Moss as far as their reputation goes. There is no comparison. Moss dogs it. TO gives 110% at all times when on the field. My top three TO TD celebrations:

1 The autograph - Didn't he give the football to a kid in the stands?
2 The cell phone
3 The Pom Poms (Classic)

Fiddy
02-08-2005, 06:18 PM
I love to watch TO. He came to play on Sunday to help the Eagles in their quest for the super bowl. He proved to his doctors that he could do it. I have heard people compare him with Randy Moss as far as their reputation goes. There is no comparison. Moss dogs it. TO gives 110% at all times when on the field. My top three TO TD celebrations:

1 The autograph - Didn't he give the football to a kid in the stands?
2 The cell phone
3 The Pom Poms (Classic)The cell phone was Joe Horn...

Boxscore
02-08-2005, 06:42 PM
The cell phone was Joe Horn...

I was waiting for someone to correct me on that. I was unsure. OK, I will put the celebration on the Star of the cowgirls in the top three as a replacement!

Boxscore
02-08-2005, 08:14 PM
Interesting read


TO should have been Superbowl MVP ? (http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002173687_les08.html)

McNabb to Owens
3 Tds vs. Giants
1TD vs Vikes
1TD vs Lions
1TD vs Bears
2TD vs Browns
1TD vs Ravens
3TD vs Cowboys
1TD vs Redskins
1TD vs Packers
-T.O. injured

14Td's sets Eagles record

Boxscore
02-08-2005, 08:24 PM
Nice post string on the Philly MB

Philly Fan's viewpoint about TO (http://eagles.hosttown.com/index.php?showtopic=238090)

MarleyFan
02-08-2005, 08:25 PM
Let's break this down!!!

Seattle hates him because of the "Sharpe" incident.
Oakland hates him beacause he was a "niner"
San Francisco hates him, because he left, and then they went down the tubes.
Baltimore hates him because he refused to play there, and the Ray Lewis dance in the end zone.
Dallas hates him because he disrespected the "Star"
Cleveland hates him because he called Jeff Garcia gay, and then showed the team up in there own crib.
And now Green Bay probably hates him because he refered to Brett Favre when he was complaining after the Super Bowl.

So that is about 20 million people right there that do not like TO.

Boxscore
02-08-2005, 08:31 PM
But Us Philly fans Love TO! Period. He is by far the best wide receiver in Pro Football. Tall, Big, strong fast, leaping ability, never drops passes, etc. What more can a Philadelphia Eagle fan ask for.

Please Click Link below

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002173687_les08.html

WWJD
02-08-2005, 09:37 PM
I like Michael Irvin as a player but not the gesturing, etc. I always prefered that he just play.

I think Emmitt was just making a point. I'd prefer he not have done that but you know it was his star....not Terrell's. Now if he went to Philly and had acted that way I'd have been disappointed. But he never did so it's a moot point. Compared to Terrell Michael on the field was a choir boy.

Boxscore
02-08-2005, 09:46 PM
The cowboy star is not Emmitt's It stands for the classy organization of yesteryear and the unclassy (cowgirls) of present.

WWJD
02-08-2005, 09:51 PM
The cowboy star is not Emmitt's It stands for the classy organization of yesteryear and the unclassy (cowgirls) of present.


That star is Emmitt's and every other player wearing that uniform past and present.

StarStruck
02-08-2005, 10:04 PM
I am one Cowboys fan that like T.O. I think he is funny, spontaneous, original, and one heck of a football player. He also seems to be the kind of guy who would be the life of a party. He is only football player that I can laugh before he opens his mouth because I know the entertainment is coming. However, I believe that is his unique personality and I can respect him for his as much as I do Marvin Harrison for his more quiet laid back approach to his game style.

As for Michael Irvin, of course I liked him. Although there were many days I could only shake my head and continue to pray for him, but there was something about him beyond the bad behavior that I thought was genuinely good.

Many years ago I read Jack Tatum's book, and some of the Raider stories were pure comedy to put it mildly. Football antics are significantly tame today.

Boxscore
02-08-2005, 10:23 PM
LMBH, Excellent Post

TexansTrueFan
02-08-2005, 11:08 PM
Yeah I cant compare Lewis to T.O. becuase as SESupergenius and T.O. himself pointed out, T.O doesnt have a murder charge to his name but Lewis does. And I classify being caught up in a murder trail a big scene off the field. Owens wants the ball thrown his way to help his team win. Freddie Mitchell, Todd Pinkston or T.O. Which one would you rather throw the ball, too???

Yes, Lewis brought in Dieon but who did he want first??? That's right. He wanted T.O.


(T.O. dances too: The pom-poms)

How is he self-centered???

WWJD: What did you think of Irvin??? He had a big mouth. Also, didnt Emmitt Smith mimick T.O. and go to the star??? Shouldnt of Smith been the "better" man and stayed out of it???

oh thats right T.O hasnt killed anyone yet my bad like that REALLY has ANYTHING to do with football !?!?!?!? You changed the whole subject Fiddy, T.O is a show off, has a loud mouth, is incosiderate, likes to write his name to much, and should prolly join the cheerleading squad, OUR make fun of Ray Lewis. While Ray Lewis does his normal Dance that does not affend anyone. BIG DIFFERENCES FIDDY !

Fiddy
02-08-2005, 11:21 PM
oh thats right T.O hasnt killed anyone yet my bad like that REALLY has ANYTHING to do with football !?!?!?!? You changed the whole subject Fiddy, T.O is a show off, has a loud mouth, is incosiderate, likes to write his name to much, and should prolly join the cheerleading squad, OUR make fun of Ray Lewis. While Ray Lewis does his normal Dance that does not affend anyone. BIG DIFFERENCES FIDDY !Look at your original statement: You cant compare a PLAYER like Ray Lewis (Defense) to a "character" like Terrell Owens (offense). Bad comparison Fiddy !You said T.O. was a character. That's why I brought up the murder charge. Yes he is a character, but T.O. was never hit with a murder charge and Ray Lewis seems to be loved by everyone.

What does Ray Lewis' dance have to do with football??? Why must he come out and do a dance??? Why doesnt he wait until the game starts and when he makes a play??? And if you dont think Lewis dance doesnt offend anyone, what about Ray Lewis doing Joey Porter's "kick" when Porter was sidelined with a gunshot wound in his butt two years ago??? Isnt that being incosiderate??? T.O. has never made fun of someone, when that someone has a gunshot wound. And if Ray Lewis' dance isnt bad why cant T.O. copy it??? Ray Lewis talks after every play, even when he isnt a part of it. How do you not classify him as a big mouth??? And everytime Lewis makes a tackle, he is up and running and talking. Why cant T.O. do something when he scores a TD???

blockhead83
02-08-2005, 11:52 PM
With that line of thinking, players should be able to do whatever they want when they score a touchdown. Go ahead and act like a five year old. Tear off your helmet. Whip out signs. Delay the game. Why not, if people don't like it, all they have to do is keep you out of the end zone.

I don't have a problem with TD celebrations, but some do because they feel like the player is trying to take more credit than they have coming for a big play. You don't often see the offensive lineman run into the endzone and pantomime moon the crowd after blocking for a long pass play.

I have no big beef with TD celebrations, but I do have a problem with the ideology of 'Hey, if you can't stop me from getting in the end zone I'll exploit it to do whatever the h3ll I want. Rubbing success in other's faces is a great way to promote the game.'

HARRYJ
02-08-2005, 11:55 PM
Boxscore, thanks for coming over to the the Eagles MB and bringing this thread to my attention. I'll admit I was worried about TO from his reputation. After watching this guy play for my Eagles this year I have nothing but respect for him. I saw him play every game and I'll tell you all this guy wants to do is win. He is a true warrior. Sorry SheTex but anyone that doesn't like TO just hasn't seen what this guy brought to the Eagles table. He brought a swagger that I haven't seen in a long time. It's not your fault, you didn't see all of the Eagles games, like I did, this year, and with no reservations, I want him on my team.

ColdSteelBlue
02-08-2005, 11:58 PM
I love to watch TO. He came to play on Sunday to help the Eagles in their quest for the super bowl. He proved to his doctors that he could do it. I have heard people compare him with Randy Moss as far as their reputation goes. There is no comparison. Moss dogs it. TO gives 110% at all times when on the field. My top three TO TD celebrations:

1 The autograph - Didn't he give the football to a kid in the stands?
2 The cell phone
3 The Pom Poms (Classic)
He gave the ball to his financial advisor. The only thing that I like about TO is: He is the ultimate competitor.

I don't like TO because:
1. He is a cry baby when he doesnt get his way. not getteing balls thrown to him, cry. Get traded to a team other than the Eagles , cry.
2. I hate show boats
3. I hate players that think they are bigger than the team.

Ihategeeks
02-09-2005, 12:09 AM
Get traded to a team other than the Eagles , cry.
.

The 49ers did not have the right to trade him.

Youngstown Colt
02-09-2005, 01:30 AM
My beef:

After he pulled off one of the greatest performances in superbowl history (and loses) he goes off on the media after the game talking about how no one believed in him, he proved everybody wrong. Well, what does it matter when you didn't win? That's why you play the game, and he chose to take that stage and turn it into a soapbox about himself. If you let people respect you, they will. However, if you tell them to respect you, they will only hate you more.

I loved the performance, I was sorry I doubted him, but him playing in that game wasn't more important than winning it.

ColdSteelBlue
02-09-2005, 01:59 AM
The 49ers did not have the right to trade him.

Yes they did. The 49ers had him under contract. Remember he had planned to void his contract and become a FA. Then his agent did not file the paperwork.
Since he was under contract the 49ers had the right to trade him to anybody they pleased. :violin

TheOgre
02-09-2005, 11:40 AM
Yes they did. The 49ers had him under contract. Remember he had planned to void his contract and become a FA. Then his agent did not file the paperwork.
Since he was under contract the 49ers had the right to trade him to anybody they pleased. :violin

What you fail to mention is that the league sent out a fax moving the deadline up. This is the equivalent to having a contract on an apartment through March 1st and your landlord sending you a fax telling you that it has been changed to February 15th. The contract overrides some one-sided fax. The league had no ground to stand on. That is why the league avoided the arbitration hearing, rescended the trade, and asked Baltimore and San Francisco to bite their lips. Did you notice that there was almost no noise out of Baltimore and San Fran? They both lost in this deal.

Did the agent make this situation more difficult than it should have been? Sure. Was the league negligent as well? I'll let the outcome decide that for you.

TexansTrueFan
02-09-2005, 12:15 PM
My beef:

After he pulled off one of the greatest performances in superbowl history (and loses) he goes off on the media after the game talking about how no one believed in him, he proved everybody wrong. Well, what does it matter when you didn't win? That's why you play the game, and he chose to take that stage and turn it into a soapbox about himself. If you let people respect you, they will. However, if you tell them to respect you, they will only hate you more.

I loved the performance, I was sorry I doubted him, but him playing in that game wasn't more important than winning it.


Good point i failed to mention to fiddy. Why brag about his own performance if he was a TEAM player, sure he had a nice game but for what ? He is selfish as a person, but still a very good athlete !

BigBang
02-09-2005, 03:01 PM
Terrell Owens is probably one of the most misunderstood players in football. In a post in another thread I made note of the fact that football is a game of passion and those that dominate the game are more likely to be the same ones that exhibit it on the field. Intensity can be either explosive (T.O., Moss, Sapp) or implosive (Andre Johnson, Brett Favre, Marvin Harrison, Tory Holt). There is always an amount of fire within the elite players. How they choose to display it is up to them. In the case of T.O., he is an inferno that aims to make his team better. He's the type of player I can appreciate on my team.

Grid
02-09-2005, 03:08 PM
am i the only guy that saw the T.O. interview on inside the NFL earlier this year?

TheOgre
02-09-2005, 03:22 PM
am i the only guy that saw the T.O. interview on inside the NFL earlier this year?

That has to be one of the worst shows ever. When I had HBO, I hated that show. It got even worse when Cris Collinsworth was added to it.

SheTexan
02-09-2005, 03:37 PM
The NINERS would have been rock bottom this year with or without TO. They happened to have the sorriest coach in the NFL, excuse me HAD, thank goodness he is gone. Now they can rebuild starting with the first draft pick. All elite teams fall at some point in time. TO was a chicken-s who just wanted out because he knew he would not get media attention on the Niner stage. It's a matter of opinion as to who is the BEST WR in the NFL, I will not argue that issue simply because everyone has their own opinion, and they are entitled to that.

To Harryj, Boxscore, and all the fans who think TO was the savior for the Eagles, I for one, think the Eagles could have done it this year without him. JMO!

Grid
02-09-2005, 05:01 PM
it may not be a great show.. but the interview with T.O. was very telling of the kind of person he is.

I dont like him.

WWJD
02-09-2005, 05:05 PM
It's my understanding he has an autobiography out also. I'll never read it but I guess you can get the real Terrell from his own mouth by reading that.

You're right..the Niners were going to fall eventually and actually I think they began some of that when their ownership changed and they just went thru a complete overhaul. It'll happen to the Patriots one day too. Nobody stays great forever.

Fiddy
02-09-2005, 05:45 PM
Good point i failed to mention to fiddy. Why brag about his own performance if he was a TEAM player, sure he had a nice game but for what ? He is selfish as a person, but still a very good athlete !Please answer my last post:

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=81156&postcount=32


He brought up his performance cause everyone in the media before the game was saying that he was "selfish" for playing. He brought it up to point out that he wasnt selfish for playing and he knew what he was doing.

What was most impressive about Owens' performance was what the Pro Bowl receiver said after the game. During the post game press conference, Owens said that one of the reasons he was so anxious to play the game was because he didn't want to let down his teammates.Yep, he is selfish... :rolleyes:

http://www.dailycampus.com/news/2005/02/09/Sports/A.Changed.Owens-857628.shtml

Boxscore
02-09-2005, 07:26 PM
If someone like Brett Favre were to come back from an injury to risk his future in the superbowl, he would be called a hero. TO should be thought of the same way as he risked his future in football to play and and to not let down his teammates.

I wish we had him in Battle red!

Youngstown Colt
02-09-2005, 07:33 PM
And if someone like Brett Favre came out and called teammates gay, and threw around accusations about murder cases, the public perception wouldn't be so grand. TO is a great player and an egomaniac. Brett is just a great player. That's why the media is being so evil when it comes to a guy who constantly bashed Jeff Garcia for absolutely no reason.

I'm tired of hearing that comparison. TO heard that from an ESPN personality and then decided to use it like he thought it up himself.

Why does it matter why TO went off talking about how no one believed in him? The team lost and he still made it about him, and still wanted to rub it in that he did good. He's a great teammate until things go wrong, then all of a sudden you have a supposedly gay quarterback.

Fiddy
02-09-2005, 07:57 PM
And if someone like Brett Favre came out and called teammates gay, and threw around accusations about murder cases, the public perception wouldn't be so grand. TO is a great player and an egomaniac. Brett is just a great player. That's why the media is being so evil when it comes to a guy who constantly bashed Jeff Garcia for absolutely no reason.Yeah. T.O talks. Favre gets addicted to pain killers.

(so there is no misconception, I do like Favre)

jgl35
02-09-2005, 08:13 PM
This past summer I made a trip to the Eagles training camp at Lehigh Univ. After practice was over and most of the Ealges were going back to the gym, who do you think stayed out and came over to the fence,stood and talked to the fans. Terrell Owens is who. He stayed out there for a good half hour, joking around and answered every question asked of him in 90 deg. heat.
Hearing him talk to people that day, I got the sense that he says what he feels, and those answers are honest. We aren't use to honest anymore.
You know, all the bad things that TO was suppose to cause with the Eagles this year never happened. I wish he was here in Philly from the beginning.

texasguy346
02-09-2005, 08:23 PM
Yeah. T.O talks. Favre gets addicted to pain killers.

Americans are willing, often eager, to forgive someone, especially atheletes, when they admit the made a mistake, and we give them a chance to change. Favre was addicted to painkillers and he had his struggles with alcohol abuse. He changed and apologized for the way he was to his family and friends. You got lots of other examples of this across sports. Pete Rose, Babe Ruth, LT, Irvin, etc. Irvin is probably the closest to TO. Irvin had a similiar negative clout surrounding him back in his playing days. When his drug addiction was revealed and he eventually overcame it he became a much more sympathetic figure among most fans. TO on the other hand is addicted to the spotlight, but he won't ever apologize for it. I don't think he has a responsibility to apologize for thriving on the media spotlight, but it also won't help to make him a sympathetic figure. I don't think it's entirely TO's fault since I'm sure the media flocks to him for quotes now that he's a NFL icon. They know he'll be good for a quote that might stir up controversy or at least grab a few headlines. I really don't think TO even minds the negative press as long as he gets some press. Sure he'd like more positive press, but if he really wanted it I think he's saavy enough to know how to manipulate the media.

Boxscore
02-09-2005, 08:49 PM
And if someone like Brett Favre came out and called teammates gay, and threw around accusations about murder cases, the public perception wouldn't be so grand. TO is a great player and an egomaniac. Brett is just a great player. That's why the media is being so evil when it comes to a guy who constantly bashed Jeff Garcia for absolutely no reason.

I'm tired of hearing that comparison. TO heard that from an ESPN personality and then decided to use it like he thought it up himself.

Why does it matter why TO went off talking about how no one believed in him? The team lost and he still made it about him, and still wanted to rub it in that he did good. He's a great teammate until things go wrong, then all of a sudden you have a supposedly gay quarterback.

OK Youngstown Colt you have had your say. Has Terrell Owens had to go through Drug rehabilation? The answer is No. Has Bret Favre had to go through Drug rehabilation? The answer is yes. What did that do for the Green Bay youth? Your obversations about TO were biased as you think your superhero is unflawed!

Is there another factor that no one seems willing to talk about regarding this subject?

Another positive thing about TO is his openly expression of his faith in God, and that is what he truly believed healed his injuries faster than his doctors advised. You politically correct people please correct me if he did not actually say "God".

Boxscore
02-09-2005, 09:15 PM
Favre also had alcohol addiction that he had to tackle.

Is there another factor that no one seems willing to talk about regarding this subject?

Wolf
02-09-2005, 09:16 PM
I got tired of the cockiness of the patriots... seemed like every big play they were flapping their arms. one or two times is enough but seemed like all game I had to see that... and I was pulling for them earlier in the game

I think it is the type of individual that I cling too as good or bad.. I for one perfer the Earl Campbell "flip the ball to the referee as I have been there before" TD celebration and I also like the Billy "shake my legs dance" celebration when he ran a TD back... Maybe it is one person scores so much it doesn't matter (i.e. Earl) and one when they do score it is a momentum changer and do act like it is a big deal (i.e. Billy Johnson)

Wolf
02-09-2005, 09:19 PM
Favre also had alcohol addiction that he had to tackle.

Is there another factor that no one seems willing to talk about regarding this subject?
I respect Favre more for overcoming that than anything else..not many people in the world overcome that... To me with so much people drinking and getting addicted.. Favre overcoming that says volumes compared to anyone that hasn't gone through what Favre did and speaks their mind.. one is that they haven't been in the shoes that say Favre has walked

Boxscore
02-09-2005, 09:20 PM
I want to make sure that I have not turned this into a Favre versus TO issue. It is not.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/sports/2002173687_les08.html

Wolf
02-09-2005, 09:24 PM
on that subject.. and not taking anything away from T.O.. if I recall the Patriots had 2 rookies playing cornerback? was that what the T.V. announcers said? I know Ty law wasn't there and can't remember who was the other injured player.. but if that is the case, why couldn't the Eagles exploit that? Those CB's couldn't be THAT good. or was it the game plan?

Rosusu
02-10-2005, 01:26 AM
Ok I just got into this thread so here is a few of my takes..

If Ray Lewis is doing his dance to get pumped up why does he have to do it infront of the camera? Why cant he do it by himself in the locker room? Because he wants the attention.

I LOVE T.O. Football is supposed to be fun. Yes you have an obligation to your team to try your hardest which he does. You are also playing a game and he makes it fun. I want to watch to see what he does next. The NFL loves him because of all the attention he gets and the draw he has on their consumers.

YES some of the stuff he does is stupid (jeff garcia) but other than that I have no problem with anything he has done. He is probably the best athlete in the NFL and he tries harder than anyone. He is the best reciever in football and any team would love to have him. I think he is great for NFL and my viewing pleasure.

SheTexan
02-10-2005, 05:09 AM
Another positive thing about TO is his openly expression of his faith in God, and that is what he truly believed healed his injuries faster than his doctors advised. You politically correct people please correct me if he did not actually say "God".

Funny how I never heard him talk about "GOD" when he was with SF!!

TO want, needs, and expects instant gradification, he gets that via the media. He will say and do whatever it takes to get it. NOT his fault they give it to him!

For those of you who would love to have him on our TEXANS, it would NEVER happen. His ego is much to big to play for a lowly 3 y/o expansion team! He would pitch a kiddy fit and threaten to quit before he would stoop that low. The only reason he was so insistant on going to the Eagles is because he thought they were one step away from WINNING a SB. To hell with working his way up with the team and helping them get there. They did just fine in the playoffs without him!! MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, they would have done just fine in the SB without him.

StarStruck
02-10-2005, 05:27 PM
Tell us how you really feel, SheTexan, :rofl:

SheTexan
02-10-2005, 05:53 PM
Tell us how you really feel, SheTexan, :rofl:

You really don't want to know what I truly think about that jerk! :hairpull: lol

Just remember, I am a long time NINER fan. They dumped THE BEST WR in the NFL, Jerry Rice, for that low life piece of ****. TO was never the team player that JR was for the Niners. TO can dance all the jigs he wants, tell all the lies he cares to tell, BUT, he will NEVER be the WR that JR was, and still is! JMHO!!

For all you "stat" freaks, don't even bother. You can't put numbers to the heart and passion a player brings to a team. You combine that with talent, and you have an elite player. Such is Jerry Rice, and our Andre Johnson. TO doesn't even come close.

Wolf
02-10-2005, 06:36 PM
freddie mitchell is making T.O. seem like a saint

Youngstown Colt
02-11-2005, 04:35 PM
Yeah. T.O talks. Favre gets addicted to pain killers.

(so there is no misconception, I do like Favre)wow, fault a man for something that was beyond his control. And ignore that he apologized an fixed it. Tell me when TO apologized for slandering someones good name? And you don't get off the hook for being ignorant because you put in the "but I like him" line.

Fiddy
02-11-2005, 05:14 PM
wow, fault a man for something that was beyond his control. And ignore that he apologized an fixed it. Tell me when TO apologized for slandering someones good name? And you don't get off the hook for being ignorant because you put in the "but I like him" line.How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions.

Why should T.O. apologize for something he believes??? He believes that Garcia is homosexual and stinks as a QB. Now do I wish he would of kept those comments to himself??? Yes, I do but it's called the first amendment. He has the right to say what he wants to.

blockhead83
02-11-2005, 05:32 PM
"How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions." - Fiddy

adĚdicĚtion (-dkshn)
n.
Habitual psychological and physiological dependence on a substance or practice beyond one's voluntary control.

el oh el.

WWJD
02-11-2005, 05:48 PM
Irregardless of whether a teammate "stinks" or not isn't there sort of an unwritten rule that you keep all that in house? It's called being a good teammate I think.

I'm not so sure Terrell would like it if say...oh he had pimples on his butt....and one of his teammates came out and said so. That'd be in pretty bad taste I think and uncalled for. Same for his comments about Jeff Garcia who, by the way, DENIES being gay and said Terrell is lying.

infantrycak
02-11-2005, 06:15 PM
If dating this:

http://www.playboy.com/playmates/pmoy/pmoy2004/flip/imx/popup_05.jpg

makes you a homosexual male, I think the presidential election would have gone far different last year.

TO is a great but tacky player.

Youngstown Colt
02-11-2005, 06:34 PM
How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions.Have control of an addiction?!?! Are you kidding me? Those cigarrette smokers who tell you they can quit whenever they want, but don't; Here's a special tip, IT'S BECAUSE THEY CAN'T!

MarleyFan
02-11-2005, 07:42 PM
If dating this:

http://www.playboy.com/playmates/pmoy/pmoy2004/flip/imx/popup_05.jpg

makes you a homosexual male, I think the presidential election would have gone far different last year.

TO is a great but tacky player.

Wow, good for Garcia!

StarStruck
02-11-2005, 09:34 PM
If dating this:

http://www.playboy.com/playmates/pmoy/pmoy2004/flip/imx/popup_05.jpg

makes you a homosexual male, I think the presidential election would have gone far different last year.

TO is a great but tacky player.

Sounds good in theory, but if a gay individual chooses not to reveal his/her preference or go public with that preference, then who he/she dates isn't a strong argument.

texasguy346
02-11-2005, 09:37 PM
Why should T.O. apologize for something he believes??? He believes that Garcia is homosexual and stinks as a QB. Now do I wish he would of kept those comments to himself??? Yes, I do but it's called the first amendment. He has the right to say what he wants to.

Now I'm not saying what TO said constitutes slander, but if he had said "Jeff Garcia IS a homosexual" instead of alluding to the fact that he thought he might be one then it could constitute slander if Garcia were then let go by the Browns for that reason. However, that wouldn't happen since there are laws in place to protect people from that sort of discrimination. The point being that although what TO said didn't impose upon Jeff Garcia's rights it certainly had an effect on him due to the media spotlight that surrounded him after TO's comments. So even though saying it wasn't slanderous, it most certainly didn't help improve his public image. TO is entertaining, but his and my freedom of speech ends when it imposes upon someone else's rights.

Fiddy
02-11-2005, 10:37 PM
You are getting ridiculous now. The entire nature of an "addiction" means that they have lost some sort of control....or they wouldn't be addicted.

Also, I think it is weak you attack someone like Farve (who is clearly a decent hard working guy) to make your point with Owens. You lose credibility in your argument with this tactic.I should of reworded my previous comment better. People addicted to say drugs do have control, its called help which Favre eventually got. That's why I brought up people addicted to cigarettes. Cigarettes users say they are going to quit but dont get any help. They think that just by throwing away a pack they will stop. No matter what a person is doing, the person has some control. And did Favre go through alcohol rebab (I honestly dont know) cause I know if he did, he didnt start using alcohol to relieve the pain of football.

I didn't bring up Favre, Youngstown Colt brought him up and protrayed him as the perfect guy. But Favre is far from perfect. You have never seen T.O. in any kind of rehab, in a murder trail (Ray Lewis), busted for dealing drugs (Jamal Lewis) or doing drugs (Lawerence Taylor). T.O. likes to talk and speaks his mind and people make him out to be a bad guy. He works just as had as Favre, plays through pain like Favre, has great games when playing through pain like Favre but he is protrayed as a bad guy, the exact opposite of Favre.


And Vinny, its FaVRe not FaRVe :heh:

Marcus
04-12-2005, 06:20 PM
You wanna know why I hate him, huh?

How about slamming your fellow teammate while crying for more money? (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2035146&num=2)

"There are a lot of people who said that me playing in that game was an inspiration to them," Owens said. "Hey, the only person I was trying to inspire was myself. I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. But why did I want to do it? To win a Super Bowl for the team, for the fans, for the city. I did everything they asked me to do. I played every snap they allowed me to play. I wasn't even running until, like, two weeks before the game. But I made sure I was in the best shape possible. I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl."

What a bud! :thumbdown

TheOgre
04-12-2005, 06:58 PM
The only reason he was so insistant on going to the Eagles is because he thought they were one step away from WINNING a SB. To hell with working his way up with the team and helping them get there. They did just fine in the playoffs without him!! MAYBE, JUST MAYBE, they would have done just fine in the SB without him.

The team's weakest area was WR, and yet they continually finished a game short of the Super Bowl. T.O. joined them to put them over the hump, and sure he wanted to win one for himself. It is a win-win situation the way I look at it.

He was one of the good stories for the Eagles at the SB. He clearly wasn't 100%, yet he put in a performance that would have been remembered for the ages if the Eagles had won. The reasons they lost had more to do with a combination of McNabb's nerves and Reed's coaching. The 4th quarter TD drive was the ugliest sustained drive I have seen in all of my football viewership. McNabb and Reed are the ones that should be embarrassed, not T.O.

Youngstown Colt
04-12-2005, 07:04 PM
And TO continues to finger point when things don't go right...

"There are a lot of people who said that me playing in that game was an inspiration to them," Owens said. "Hey, the only person I was trying to inspire was myself. I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. I played every snap they allowed me to play. I wasn't even running until, like, two weeks before the game. But I made sure I was in the best shape possible. I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl."

What a classy guy!

Youngstown Colt
04-12-2005, 07:09 PM
I didn't bring up Favre, Youngstown Colt brought him up and protrayed him as the perfect guy. But Favre is far from perfect. Wow, good thing somone bumped this thread so I could see this guy throwing around false accusations.

Go back to my posts and notice that I didn't bring up Favre, and I CERTAINLY didn't say he was a perfect man.

Funny, like I stated in my earlier post "TO is a great teammate when you're winning/"

Corrosion
04-13-2005, 01:11 PM
You can come closer to comparing Ray Lweis to Ray Caruth than you can comparing him to TO . :hmmm:

canadiantexan
04-13-2005, 02:31 PM
Class is something T.O. has'nt seen since school and I'm not sure how much of it he saw when he was there. Just remember because someone is a great player does not make them a great person. Makes you glad we got a guy like A.J.

Huge
04-13-2005, 04:18 PM
How is being addicted to something beyond a person's control? Cigarette users have the choice to stop but most dont. People have control over addictions.

Why should T.O. apologize for something he believes??? He believes that Garcia is homosexual and stinks as a QB. Now do I wish he would of kept those comments to himself??? Yes, I do but it's called the first amendment. He has the right to say what he wants to.

So you believe that it's okay for Owens to express his opinions because he's backed by the First Amendment and those are his beliefs.

But you can't understand why people continue to bash Owens? How is this?

Fiddy
04-13-2005, 05:52 PM
Dang, I totally forgot about this thread...Wow, good thing somone bumped this thread so I could see this guy throwing around false accusations.

Go back to my posts and notice that I didn't bring up Favre, and I CERTAINLY didn't say he was a perfect man.

Funny, like I stated in my earlier post "TO is a great teammate when you're winning/"ok, http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showpost.php?p=81411&postcount=49

Favre mentioned in that post and you said that T.O. was an egomaniac and "Favre is just a great player." When in reality, Favre has had problems, too. The way I read it, you made it sound like Favre was perfect.

So you believe that it's okay for Owens to express his opinions because he's backed by the First Amendment and those are his beliefs.

But you can't understand why people continue to bash Owens? How is this?But why do you have those beliefs??? I know you have the right to hate him and everything, but why do you hate him. That's what I cant understand.


You wanna know why I hate him, huh?

How about slamming your fellow teammate while crying for more money? (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2035146&num=2)

"There are a lot of people who said that me playing in that game was an inspiration to them," Owens said. "Hey, the only person I was trying to inspire was myself. I wanted to prove to myself that I could do it. But why did I want to do it? To win a Super Bowl for the team, for the fans, for the city. I did everything they asked me to do. I played every snap they allowed me to play. I wasn't even running until, like, two weeks before the game. But I made sure I was in the best shape possible. I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl."

What a bud! :thumbdownAnd did you read the rest??? Asked to whom he was referring, Owens laughed, then changed the subject. It has been widely reported that McNabb was either ill or fatigued late in Super Bowl XXXIX. The star quarterback has denied either was the case. T.O. said it jokingly and McNabb didnt get tired in the Super Bowl so how is he going after him???

Huge
04-13-2005, 08:40 PM
But why do you have those beliefs??? I know you have the right to hate him and everything, but why do you hate him. That's what I cant understand.

And yet you're so quick to accept Owens' logic as to why he believes that Jeff Garcia is a homosexual and a bad QB?

Jeff Garcia is married to a gorgeous woman (although that doesn't mean he's not gay) and has been to 3 Pro Bowls during his 6 years on the league.

What about those two facts scream "homosexual" and "bad QB"?

So far, Owens has just been quoted as saying he believes Garcia is gay and is a bad QB. He hasn't provided anything to support these "beliefs", he's just been quoted as saying such. And we're required to provide more? Why is that?

Youngstown Colt
04-14-2005, 09:57 AM
If you believe TO was joking, you are an Owens apologist at its worst.

That's a great way to joke, you know? Bring up your buddies worst professional sports moment and remind him of how he cost his team.

I just wish I had friends that would always joke about the worst moment in my life, and remind me of how they are better than me.

Fiddy
04-14-2005, 05:01 PM
And yet you're so quick to accept Owens' logic as to why he believes that Jeff Garcia is a homosexual and a bad QB?

Jeff Garcia is married to a gorgeous woman (although that doesn't mean he's not gay) and has been to 3 Pro Bowls during his 6 years on the league.

What about those two facts scream "homosexual" and "bad QB"?

So far, Owens has just been quoted as saying he believes Garcia is gay and is a bad QB. He hasn't provided anything to support these "beliefs", he's just been quoted as saying such. And we're required to provide more? Why is that?Ok, you made your point but maybe T.O. saw Jeff looking at his butt in the locker room one day or something to that nature.

And Garcia was cut this offseason after being signed to a 4 year contract, so the Browns must think that Garcia isnt that good either.

If you believe TO was joking, you are an Owens apologist at its worst.

That's a great way to joke, you know? Bring up your buddies worst professional sports moment and remind him of how he cost his team.

I just wish I had friends that would always joke about the worst moment in my life, and remind me of how they are better than me.It wasnt his buddies worst moment because according to McNabb, him getting tired never happened.

Huge
04-14-2005, 05:13 PM
And Garcia was cut this offseason after being signed to a 4 year contract, so the Browns must think that Garcia isnt that good either.

Yes, because the Browns are the team you really want to take advice from when evaluating talent. :rolleyes: Or have you not been paying attention to their draft picks and free agent aquisitions since they came back in the league?

Garcia's problem is he has Doug Flutitis. Too short and limited upside so teams will continue to shy away from him. Not to say I blame them. He's not somebody I'd want to build a team around given his age (35).


Here's the bottom line: Those that don't like Owens are the ones that are tired of his act. Wanna act like you're the best in the league? Do so by making your teammates better. Win a Super Bowl. Has he done that...anywhere? The Eagles made the NFC Championship game three times without Owens and failed in the Super Bowl with him (not to say this was Owens' fault but with or without him...they still lose). Until you accomplish something, STFU.

See...Ray Lewis can do his dance. He's got his ring. He's the leader of the best defense in the NFL. He can dance. Thinks Owens has ever been considered a leader? No...because he doesn't know a thing about leading.

Still confused as to why people bash Owens or are you going to continue to bury your head in the sand and believe it's just people's imagination that he's an assclown?

Youngstown Colt
04-14-2005, 05:23 PM
And Garcia was cut this offseason after being signed to a 4 year contract, so the Browns must think that Garcia isnt that good either.Jeff was a square peg in a round hole. He didn't work in the browns traditional offense, and that wasn't his fault. There was no O-line, he was set up for failure.
It wasnt his buddies worst moment because according to McNabb, him getting tired never happened.What he didn't have a horrible superbowl? I believe he did. He's rubbing a bad performance in McNabb's face.

Bottom line is, TO didn't get the team to the superbowl, Donovan did. TO just played in the game for his own personal glory. He made that perfectly clear after the game when he talked about himself for about 10 minutes, and how he shocked the world. Watch any TO press conference, and you're sure to get your fill of the word "I"

Fiddy
04-14-2005, 05:32 PM
Here's the bottom line: Those that don't like Owens are the ones that are tired of his act. Wanna act like you're the best in the league? Do so by making your teammates better. Win a Super Bowl. Has he done that...anywhere? The Eagles made the NFC Championship game three times without Owens and failed in the Super Bowl with him (not to say this was Owens' fault but with or without him...they still lose). Until you accomplish something, STFU.

See...Ray Lewis can do his dance. He's got his ring. He's the leader of the best defense in the NFL. He can dance. Thinks Owens has ever been considered a leader? No...because he doesn't know a thing about leading.

Still confused as to why people bash Owens or are you going to continue to bury your head in the sand and believe it's just people's imagination that he's an assclown?I'm sorry T.O. couldnt do better then 120 yards recieving on one ankle. And I guess 3 McNabb INTs and an LJ Smith fumble had nothing to do with the Super Bowl lost.

So when T.O wins a Super Bowl, he can do whatever he likes...right???

And some people arent great leaders, not everyone is blessed with that characteristic, but there are roughly 160 NFL WRs and only about 5 can make a case they are better then T.O.

And the Ravens had the 6th best defense in the league, not the first...

Fiddy
04-14-2005, 05:35 PM
What he didn't have a horrible superbowl? I believe he did. He's rubbing a bad performance in McNabb's face.

Bottom line is, TO didn't get the team to the superbowl, Donovan did. TO just played in the game for his own personal glory. He made that perfectly clear after the game when he talked about himself for about 10 minutes, and how he shocked the world. Watch any TO press conference, and you're sure to get your fill of the word "I"Maybe I missed a quote of T.O but from what I read T.O. said "I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl." (which McNabb says he didnt get tired) Where did T.O. bring up the three INTs.


So, T.O. risked further injury to his ankle for personal glory??? Yeah, right. T.O. does everything in his power to win, he may want people to look at him but at the end of the day, he just wants the 'W'

Huge
04-14-2005, 08:17 PM
I'm sorry T.O. couldnt do better then 120 yards recieving on one ankle. And I guess 3 McNabb INTs and an LJ Smith fumble had nothing to do with the Super Bowl lost.

Did his team win? No. Want to know what was a big factor? Because Owens doesn't have what it takes to make his teammates better. Do you want to know why the Lakers won't make the playoffs this season despite Kobe Bryant being 2nd in the league in scoring? Because Kobe lacks the same characteristics of Terrell Owens.

So when T.O wins a Super Bowl, he can do whatever he likes...right???

Yep.

And some people arent great leaders, not everyone is blessed with that characteristic, but there are roughly 160 NFL WRs and only about 5 can make a case they are better then T.O.

And if those same five acted in the same manner in which Owens does, they'd get blasted just the same (just as Randy Moss does).

And the Ravens had the 6th best defense in the league, not the first...

Do you really belive that yards allowed per game decides who has the best defense?

As an example: Tennessee finished ahead of Baltimore in yardage allowed in 2002...the year the Ravens won the Super Bowl. Now, do you think the Titans had the better defense that year?

Maybe I missed a quote of T.O but from what I read T.O. said "I wasn't the guy who got tired in the Super Bowl." (which McNabb says he didnt get tired) Where did T.O. bring up the three INTs.

I don't remember McNabb admitting as such either. 'Course, McNabb's not a total moron and wouldn't admit anything like that even if it was painfully obvious.

But when your starting Center and one of the starting WRs admits that somebody else was calling the plays in the huddle at the end of the game, do you think this was because McNabb thought it'd be really cool or because he was unable to?

So, T.O. risked further injury to his ankle for personal glory??? Yeah, right. T.O. does everything in his power to win, he may want people to look at him but at the end of the day, he just wants the 'W'

I agree he does everything in his power to win. And in a sense, that's what seperates him from the really great players. The really great players have the power to make their teammates better by sheer will at times. I'm sure Owens would use this power if he could but he can't. He's too caught up in his self to understand how. Simple fact.

Fiddy
04-14-2005, 08:35 PM
Did his team win? No. Want to know what was a big factor? Because Owens doesn't have what it takes to make his teammates better. Do you want to know why the Lakers won't make the playoffs this season despite Kobe Bryant being 2nd in the league in scoring? Because Kobe lacks the same characteristics of Terrell Owens.It's harder to make players around you better in football than it is basketball. There are 11 guys on the field for a team in football, only 5 for basketball. I dont understand how you can say that was a big factor. It's not his fault that he has a first round bust and a guy afraid to go over the middle as his supporting WRs. And it's not like he is a QB and has the ball in his hands every play or a RB that touches it 30 times a game. On a good day, T.O. would see the ball around 8-9 times.

Do you really belive that yards allowed per game decides who has the best defense?

As an example: Tennessee finished ahead of Baltimore in yardage allowed in 2002...the year the Ravens won the Super Bowl. Now, do you think the Titans had the better defense that year?Well, ok lets not go by YPG then. I'd still would of taken the Pats, 'Skins, Eagles and Steelers defense over the Ravens defense.

Huge
04-14-2005, 09:39 PM
It's harder to make players around you better in football than it is basketball. There are 11 guys on the field for a team in football, only 5 for basketball. I dont understand how you can say that was a big factor. It's not his fault that he has a first round bust and a guy afraid to go over the middle as his supporting WRs. And it's not like he is a QB and has the ball in his hands every play or a RB that touches it 30 times a game. On a good day, T.O. would see the ball around 8-9 times.

So would it be fair to say that a player that might only touch the ball 8 to9 times a game doesn't have the impact on the game that he thinks he does? Which in turn would mean he needs to keep his mouth shut. Agreed?

Well, ok lets not go by YPG then. I'd still would of taken the Pats, 'Skins, Eagles and Steelers defense over the Ravens defense.

Yeah, and you also used the Browns as a measuring stick for evaluating talent earlier.

Fiddy
04-14-2005, 09:50 PM
So would it be fair to say that a player that might only touch the ball 8 to9 times a game doesn't have the impact on the game that he thinks he does? Which in turn would mean he needs to keep his mouth shut. Agreed?I didnt say he couldnt impact a game, I said it was harder for him to make his teammates better. He constantly drew double coverage but Mitchell still couldnt get open and Pinkston would pull up every thime he saw a safety. Kickers can play a total of 8 plays and have an impact on the game. Explain to me how a WR is suppose to make the guys around him better. He could make a QB better but a WR has little effect on the other 9 players on the field. And with Owens on the field, McNabb put together his best season in the pros so Owens did make his QB better.

Yeah, and you also used the Browns as a measuring stick for evaluating talent earlier.So you would take the Ravens defense over the Patriots defense??? And as much as the Browns do stink, they are still a NFL team and NFL teams have to have some talent. That's why I didnt think the Texans choked against them at the end of last season. The Browns, along with the other 31 teams in the league, get paid to play. And Jeff Garcia must of sucked more than Owens because he couldnt make his teammates better so I'm led to believe that Owens made Garica better.

Huge
04-14-2005, 11:00 PM
I didnt say he couldnt impact a game, I said it was harder for him to make his teammates better. He constantly drew double coverage but Mitchell still couldnt get open and Pinkston would pull up every thime he saw a safety. Kickers can play a total of 8 plays and have an impact on the game. Explain to me how a WR is suppose to make the guys around him better. He could make a QB better but a WR has little effect on the other 9 players on the field. And with Owens on the field, McNabb put together his best season in the pros so Owens did make his QB better.

Can he spend more time in the film room with the other WRs to help show them tendencies of DBs? Yes. Can he help them with their run blocking technique by offering tips? Yes. Can he make the CBs on his team better by staying after practice? Yes. Does he do any of this? No. Why? Because he's not a team player.

Seriously, how are you not getting this?

So you would take the Ravens defense over the Patriots defense???

Absolutely. But I'd take the (former) Patriots defensive co-ordinator over Baltimore's.

And as much as the Browns do stink, they are still a NFL team and NFL teams have to have some talent. That's why I didnt think the Texans choked against them at the end of last season. The Browns, along with the other 31 teams in the league, get paid to play.

Then I guess it's a wonder every team doesn't finish 8-8 every year.

And Jeff Garcia must of sucked more than Owens because he couldnt make his teammates better so I'm led to believe that Owens made Garica better.

Again...you're back to the (lack of) talent in Cleveland. Jeff Garcia couldn't make the Browns winners so he sucks? Peyton Manning has yet to put the Colts in the Super Bowl. Does he suck?

I'm not saying he's a great QB. I'm not even saying he's a good QB. I'd just like to see Owens evidence as to why Garcia is a bad QB.

Fiddy
04-14-2005, 11:27 PM
Can he spend more time in the film room with the other WRs to help show them tendencies of DBs? Yes. Can he help them with their run blocking technique by offering tips? Yes. Can he make the CBs on his team better by staying after practice? Yes. Does he do any of this? No. Why? Because he's not a team player.Did you read an article that said he didnt??? T.O. maybe the only NFL star to go 100% in practice and that is widely known. And tell me which WR does all those things, please do tell me.

Seriously, how are you not getting this?I'm not getting this because all his teammates have said he is a team player with some off field issues. Not one of his teammates have complained about him as the football player.

Absolutely. But I'd take the (former) Patriots defensive co-ordinator over Baltimore's.I can respect that opinion, I dont agree with it though. And if your going to judge players by if they win the big game that season, the Ravens didnt even make the playoffs. Shouldnt of Ray Lewis sat with Boller to show him his tendinces or sit with the WRs to teach them to read zone coverages better.

Then I guess it's a wonder every team doesn't finish 8-8 every year.Well, naturaly, some teams have more talent than others but everyone is a professional for a reason.

Again...you're back to the (lack of) talent in Cleveland. Jeff Garcia couldn't make the Browns winners so he sucks? Peyton Manning has yet to put the Colts in the Super Bowl. Does he suck?

I'm not saying he's a great QB. I'm not even saying he's a good QB. I'd just like to see Owens evidence as to why Garcia is a bad QB.With T.O., Garcia was a Pro Bowler, without T.O. Garcia was released. With T.O., Donovan McNabb had a QB rating of 104.7, without T.O., McNabb never posted one better than 86. With T.O., McNabb also completed 64 percent of his passes, without T.O., McNabb never completed more than 58.4 percent of his passes. Garcia looked good with the Niners cause he had T.O. to throw to. McNabb had a great season last year because T.O. was on the field.

TexansTrueFan
04-14-2005, 11:31 PM
personally ya ever just not like some one and have no reason,,,thats the way i feel about T.O, he has never done anything to make me not like him,,,he just dont seem like a very likable person,,,and there for i dont like him :) simple enough ????

WWJD
04-14-2005, 11:39 PM
1. It's probably not a good idea if you are a receiver to put down your QB in the press. You might just get a ball thrown at places you don't want it to be thrown at. By accident of course.

2. I can't stand the Eagles but to me McNabb is the cog in that machine that they can't do without. Terrell is a big time playmaker but McNabb is the key to that team.

3. Terrell would be tolerable if he'd learn the NFL doesn't revolve around him. Or the Eagles for that matter.

4. One way for any team to self destruct is to have this little in-fighting amongst guys. Reid better defuse this at their first practice or we'll be reading little snippets from them all year.

NorthAmericanElephant
04-15-2005, 08:34 AM
Hello one and all...This is my first time on this board. :thumbup

In truth, I'm a Bears fan... :shocked ...but I love football and all the talk of...I'm not a "troll" and not here to cause trouble (I'll leave that to cowboy fans...) Just here to talk 'ball.

T.O.

Because of the way the NFL contract system works, I say let him fly. Let him ask for more money. I don't think that the Eagles should just bow to his wants, but he can ask for more money.

Since the money in the NFL is not garunteed, its a what have you done for me latley league on both side (players and management). You dont play well...your cut, and goodbye big money. You play great...you want to be paid as such.

I'm not justifing anyone...just observing.

NorthAmericanElephant
04-15-2005, 08:35 AM
I 100% agree!!!!

You DO NOT call out a team member to the press.

Directally or indirect as T.O. did.

Huge
04-15-2005, 09:15 AM
Did you read an article that said he didnt??? T.O. maybe the only NFL star to go 100% in practice and that is widely known. And tell me which WR does all those things, please do tell me.

For one, Marvin Harrison. Do you think Reggie Wayne's and Brandon Stoakley's emergence has had nothing to do with Harrison help? THAT is an example of a player making his teammates better.

I'm not getting this because all his teammates have said he is a team player with some off field issues. Not one of his teammates have complained about him as the football player.

Yeah, and McNabb said he wasn't tired in the Super Bowl. Do you honestly believe everything that comes out of these players' mouths?

I can respect that opinion, I dont agree with it though. And if your going to judge players by if they win the big game that season, the Ravens didnt even make the playoffs. Shouldnt of Ray Lewis sat with Boller to show him his tendinces or sit with the WRs to teach them to read zone coverages better.

Who said anything about judging players based on "that season"? Ray Lewis has a ring...Owens doesn't. Is it that difficult?

Your second comment isn't worth replying to but I'm beginning to believe you really don't know what you're talking about. Ever heard of guys like Jamie Sharper, Terrell Suggs, Peter Boulware, Ed Reed, Chris McCalister? All have said Lewis has been a major factor for their success because he takes the time to help them. Do you see him standing on the sidelines bitching out the D-Coordinator for not lining him up in certain positions so he can make more tackles? I haven't. Have we seen Owens do this?

Well, naturaly, some teams have more talent than others but everyone is a professional for a reason.

Same reason Jeff Garcia is a professional?

With T.O., Garcia was a Pro Bowler, without T.O. Garcia was released. With T.O., Donovan McNabb had a QB rating of 104.7, without T.O., McNabb never posted one better than 86. With T.O., McNabb also completed 64 percent of his passes, without T.O., McNabb never completed more than 58.4 percent of his passes. Garcia looked good with the Niners cause he had T.O. to throw to. McNabb had a great season last year because T.O. was on the field.

Or was McNabb just having a better season and would have upped his QB rating w/o Owens...

McNabb's QB rating after Owens' injury:

Week 14 - 156.3 (only 3 attempts)
Week 15 - Did not play
Week 16 - 111.4
Week 17 - 111.1

McNabb's rating in the playoffs - 94.6 And you better believe that took a nosedive after Owens came back for the Super Bowl and McNabb tossed 3 INTs. So you can imagine what is was in the two games before the Super Bowl (when he didn't have Owens).

Youngstown Colt
04-15-2005, 10:03 AM
And if your going to judge players by if they win the big game that season, the Ravens didnt even make the playoffs. Shouldnt of Ray Lewis sat with Boller to show him his tendinces or sit with the WRs to teach them to read zone coverages better.Ray Lewis is one of the best leaders in sports. Everytime I get my sports illustrated, there's another story about ray lewis teaching these defensive players how to handle themselves. Teaching Ed Reed how to watch film, and how to conduct himself outside of football. How he teaches Suggs to get the most out of his potential. I heard Gary Baxter talk about his influence for damn near 5 minutes in his press conference after signing with the browns.

You got to pick a better example than that. There are a lot of players that make their teammates better, Owens isn't one of em.

JustBonee
04-15-2005, 10:51 AM
I like TO. I don't know if he is capable of being that team leader that people criticize him for not being .. so then it translates to many as being self-centered. I don't know if that is the case at all.
He certainly has the talent, but his personality (speaking and acting out) doesn't help his cause.
In some ways I feel sorry for the guy.

wiley2002
04-15-2005, 10:56 AM
From what I see on tv, T.O. can't handle a loss. Losing is part of the game to. Maybe someone should tell him that instead of giving in to his petty whining.

SESupergenius
04-15-2005, 11:37 AM
I'm beginning to think the Huge doesn't like T.O. because he showed up the Cowboys while at SF and is now showing up the Cowboys with their rivals, the Eagles.

Fiddy
04-15-2005, 11:41 AM
For one, Marvin Harrison. Do you think Reggie Wayne's and Brandon Stoakley's emergence has had nothing to do with Harrison help? THAT is an example of a player making his teammates better.How do you not know that T.O. did that??? Were you in the Eagles locker room all season long??? You are trying to say that you cant believe everything you hear, but you can't draw conclusions from stuff you haven't heard. And you ripped T.O. for not helping his cornerbacks, does Harrison help his CBs because if he does, it aint working.

Yeah, and McNabb said he wasn't tired in the Super Bowl. Do you honestly believe everything that comes out of these players' mouths?Well, I have to because, unlike you, I dont have access to everyone's locker room and mind.

Who said anything about judging players based on "that season"? Ray Lewis has a ring...Owens doesn't. Is it that difficult?When Bill Belichick was asked if it is hard to focus on the next season after winning a Super Bowl, he answered "What Super Bowl?" This is a what have you done for me lately league. Lewis hasnt been in the playoffs the last two years.

Your second comment isn't worth replying to but I'm beginning to believe you really don't know what you're talking about. Ever heard of guys like Jamie Sharper, Terrell Suggs, Peter Boulware, Ed Reed, Chris McCalister? All have said Lewis has been a major factor for their success because he takes the time to help them. Do you see him standing on the sidelines bitching out the D-Coordinator for not lining him up in certain positions so he can make more tackles? I haven't. Have we seen Owens do this?Ok, Lewis helps out his players. So I guess there are very few teammates in the league. Harrison, Manning, Lewis are the only ones. Is Culpepper??? So McNabb isnt a teammate either, right??? I havent heard McNabb sitting down with WRs on the team and help them out so McNabb must be has horrible of a teammate as Owens.

And I havent seen Ray Lewis flip out on the sideline, but I have seen Ray Lewis mock Joey Porter by doing Porter's kick when Joey Porter was on the sideline with a gunshot injury.

Or was McNabb just having a better season and would have upped his QB rating w/o Owens...

McNabb's QB rating after Owens' injury:

Week 14 - 156.3 (only 3 attempts)
Week 15 - Did not play
Week 16 - 111.4
Week 17 - 111.1

McNabb's rating in the playoffs - 94.6 And you better believe that took a nosedive after Owens came back for the Super Bowl and McNabb tossed 3 INTs. So you can imagine what is was in the two games before the Super Bowl (when he didn't have Owens).Those two teams in the playoffs were 22nd (ATL) and 27th (MIN) against the pass last year.

And are you going to start blaming T.O. for 3 passes that were intercepted that he wasn't a part of??? One was when McNabb lofted a 20 pass to Westbrook at the goal line that Harrison intercepted T.O. fault??? How bout the one where McNabb was late getting the ball to the TE and it was intercepted??? And the one at the end where McNabb had to travel 90 yards had to of been T.O.'s fault.

And you brought up Kobe Bryant early, so lets bring him up again. When Shaq was with the Lakers, he missed a lot of games and Kobe would look like the best player in the league when Shaq missed them. Then Shaq isnt even on the team anymore and Kobe isnt a top 10 player anymore. So the answer is yes, a players stats can continue to be good when the other star player on the team is injured.



From what I see on tv, T.O. can't handle a loss. Losing is part of the game to. Maybe someone should tell him that instead of giving in to his petty whining.Wiley, are you ripping T.O. because he doesnt like to lose??? T.O. crys after losing cause he wants to go undeafted every year. He doesnt want to settle for losing.

Huge
04-15-2005, 12:56 PM
Well, I have to (believe everything you're told) because, unlike you, I dont have access to everyone's locker room and mind.

So why don't you believe Freddie Mitchell and Hank Fraley when they said Mitchell was having to call plays in the huddle? If McNabb denies it, then somebody's got to be lying...right?

When Bill Belichick was asked if it is hard to focus on the next season after winning a Super Bowl, he answered "What Super Bowl?" This is a what have you done for me lately league. Lewis hasnt been in the playoffs the last two years.

So you're basing the Ravens absence from the playoffs the last couple of seasons as an example of Ray Lewis not being a good teammate. Holy hell I think you've reached the pinnacle.

And I havent seen Ray Lewis flip out on the sideline, but I have seen Ray Lewis mock Joey Porter by doing Porter's kick when Joey Porter was on the sideline with a gunshot injury.

If you could explain how this makes Ray Lewis a bad teammate, we can go from there. Other than that, what's the point of this comment? This discussion has nothing to do with Ray Lewis being a nice guy (Porter isn't one either).

And are you going to start blaming T.O. for 3 passes that were intercepted that he wasn't a part of??? One was when McNabb lofted a 20 pass to Westbrook at the goal line that Harrison intercepted T.O. fault??? How bout the one where McNabb was late getting the ball to the TE and it was intercepted??? And the one at the end where McNabb had to travel 90 yards had to of been T.O.'s fault.

Did you really spend the time to post all of this because you think I blamed Owens for McNabb's INTs? BWUHAHAHA. Where did I say this? And please, don't spend another paragraph explaining what you thought I meant.

And you brought up Kobe Bryant early, so lets bring him up again. When Shaq was with the Lakers, he missed a lot of games and Kobe would look like the best player in the league when Shaq missed them. Then Shaq isnt even on the team anymore and Kobe isnt a top 10 player anymore. So the answer is yes, a players stats can continue to be good when the other star player on the team is injured.

Kobe's stats continue to be good with Shaq on a different team. There's no question Kobe is a great player (just as Owens is). They're just not good teammates.

McNabb had success before Owens arrived. However his stats looked is irrelevent (although they were still good enough to get him to a few Pro Bowls). He's proven he can have success w/o Owens. Kobe hasn't proven he can do the same (yet...but I'm not betting on it).

See the difference?

I'm beginning to think the Huge doesn't like T.O. because he showed up the Cowboys while at SF and is now showing up the Cowboys with their rivals, the Eagles.

Honestly, Owens doesn't bother me. At times I find him quite humorous. I can certainly understand how others don't like him and that has been the basis of this. But I've never had a problem with him (or just about any other showboat). I'd prefer they handle themselves in a different manner but they gotta do what they gotta do.

BattleRedRaider
04-15-2005, 12:57 PM
I don't hate T.O. Back when I was a Niner fan (when they would win games), I would yell at Garcia (in front of the TV) to throw it to T.O. He is a playmaker, and needs that ball. So he causes controversy by making comments about players; so what? If you all say they're dumb, then move on and dont worry about them. He complains about not getting the ball or someone not stepping up; it's his opinion. Don't complain about someone complaining. T.O's celebrations are somewhat controversial, but come on, they're just celebrations. The pom-pom's, the Ray Lewis mock, the Dallas Star, all just celebrations. If the ref's don't flag him for it, then no use in complaining about them. And if you want him to stop doing that, stop him yourself. T.O. brings intensity to his game, even when he's injured. Yeah, Ray Lewis brings intensity too, but uhh......(murder charges). T.O. = no murder charges. If Ray-Ray doesn't like T.O. doing his celebration, then don't let him into the end-zone, it's that simple. No matter what people say, I'm a T.O. fan, no matter what he says in the offseason, because what he does during the season is all that matters.

Corrosion
04-15-2005, 02:30 PM
I don't expect athletes to be Einsteins, role models or someone to worship.

You dont expect them to be these things but the fact is many people worship the ground these guy's walk on .... especially Teenagers who are extremely impressionable .

In the case of TO , he's not neccessarily a bad guy by any stretch of the imagination . We may question his judgement , his choice of words and the fact he comes across as selfish but we cant question his desire to win . No one outworks TO . the fact that he actually played in the Superbowl was amazing . TO is an easy target for critisism because he puts himself in the spotlight . Compare him to players like Ray Caruth , Randy Moss , Ray Lewis , Jamal Lewis and Lawrence Taylor the guy is a saint .


TO doesn't bother me. He's just another clown with talent.


I have to agree with this statement :heh:

Fiddy
04-15-2005, 04:10 PM
So why don't you believe Freddie Mitchell and Hank Fraley when they said Mitchell was having to call plays in the huddle? If McNabb denies it, then somebody's got to be lying...right?Someone must be lying but we dont know who because we werent in the huddle.

So you're basing the Ravens absence from the playoffs the last couple of seasons as an example of Ray Lewis not being a good teammate. Holy hell I think you've reached the pinnacle.You seem to be bashing T.O. because he hasnt won a super bowl, I'm just saying that Lewis hasnt had any success the last couple of years.

If you could explain how this makes Ray Lewis a bad teammate, we can go from there. Other than that, what's the point of this comment? This discussion has nothing to do with Ray Lewis being a nice guy (Porter isn't one either).Well, it's not teaching his teammates how to be professional.

Did you really spend the time to post all of this because you think I blamed Owens for McNabb's INTs? BWUHAHAHA. Where did I say this? And please, don't spend another paragraph explaining what you thought I meant.This is where it sounded like you said it: "McNabb's rating in the playoffs - 94.6 And you better believe that took a nosedive after Owens came back for the Super Bowl and McNabb tossed 3 INTs."

Kobe's stats continue to be good with Shaq on a different team. There's no question Kobe is a great player (just as Owens is). They're just not good teammates.So how is Kobe not a good teammate??? He spends time after practice to work with Caron Butler.

Huge
04-15-2005, 04:25 PM
So how is Kobe not a good teammate??? He spends time after practice to work with Caron Butler.

If you turn this into a "Kobe Bryant is a good teammate" discussion I swear to God I will hunt you down and make sure you don't populate the earth with more of your ilk. ;)

Huge
04-15-2005, 04:31 PM
But I'm going still going to try to answer your original question. Maybe if I can simplify it enough it will get through.

You posted this 8 days ago:

What else does he have to do to get people from bashing him???

This week, Owens is back in the headlines, again in a negative light, because he feels he's been taken advantage by the Eagles and wants a new contract.

This is the type of stuff that causes people not to like Terrell Owens. And it's not just limited to fans of opposing teams. You may not understand it, you may not like it. One day this might all come clear to you. But it is reality.

Wolf
04-16-2005, 12:53 PM
rumor with the autograph that I read was it was his financial advisor or accountant... I may be wrong but I remember guys at work talking about it ..so I can't back that up with facts on whether I am right or wrong.