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View Full Version : ANTONIO SMITH how did he do


HouSportsWriter
08-18-2009, 05:25 PM
i did not see much highlights and i was thinking from what yall think from what higlights yall have seen whats he is ranks 1 being the lowest and 10 the highist
:d::d::d:

m5kwatts
08-18-2009, 05:27 PM
i did not see much highlights and i was thinking from what yall have seen whats he is ranks 1 being the lowest and 10 the highist

He was out there for a very few amount of snaps.... he made a nice tackle on a run play I recall, Barwin was in on the tackle too.... too few snaps to give a ranking tho...I was very pleased with the play of our front 4 in the first quarter (which was when the 1's were in...mostly).

HouSportsWriter
08-18-2009, 05:29 PM
ok im sorry i was wondering since there was no highlights and he was our top free agent


edit

i ranked 5 becuse i did not see much and it was the 1st game so

TimeKiller
08-18-2009, 05:29 PM
I voted a '1' but I thought the score was for the thread.

Errrrerybody say with me now:

Pre-season

DocBar
08-18-2009, 05:31 PM
I voted a '1' but I thought the score was for the thread.

Errrrerybody say with me now:

Pre-seasonThat's funny. I voted 7 because I think he did pretty OK for his 1st preseason game as a Texan. I believe it was Smith that made a nice tackle at the LOS on the 2nd series.Showed some run-stuffing ability.

ObsiWan
08-18-2009, 06:01 PM
Fair question. Inquiring minds want to know. Smith did okay. I think he played - for the few snaps the 1st team D played - better than Amobi. I think the scorekeeps gave his only tackle to someone else.

I will say this; I'm not sold on the idea that Smith needs to move inside on passing downs. I like stout guys at DT and Okam showed he can get push up the middle on passing downs. Why not leave him (Smith) at DE?

m5kwatts
08-18-2009, 06:04 PM
Fair question. Inquiring minds want to know. Smith did okay. I think he played - for the few snaps the 1st team D played - better than Amobi. I think the scorekeeps gave his only tackle to someone else.

I will say this; I'm not sold on the idea that Smith needs to move inside on passing downs. I like stout guys at DT and Okam showed he can get push up the middle on passing downs. Why not leave him at DE?

I agree with you but injuries can ruin plans in a hurry, he needs to have reps inside and out just in case. Rest assured, our freshest most effective front 4 will be on the field at all times in the regular season, and I likes what I sees so far.

awtysst
08-18-2009, 06:50 PM
I will say this; I'm not sold on the idea that Smith needs to move inside on passing downs. I like stout guys at DT and Okam showed he can get push up the middle on passing downs. Why not leave him (Smith) at DE?


If Okam can play like he should, he would be a beast.

Imagine if we are in a goal line situation and need to stop the run. If that were the case, how about a D line that looked like this:
Mario-Okam-Robinson-Smith

Man! That would be tough to run on!

m5kwatts
08-18-2009, 06:54 PM
If Okam can play like he should, he would be a beast.

Imagine if we are in a goal line situation and need to stop the run. If that were the case, how about a D line that looked like this:
Mario-Okam-Robinson-Smith

Man! That would be tough to run on!

Not to mention Cushing hovering over the A gap

Lucky
08-18-2009, 07:00 PM
Why not leave him (Smith) at DE?
Because you want to get your best pass rushers on the field on passing downs. That would be Mario, Barwin, Smith, and someone (Okoye????). Not to mention that Smith was a productive pass rusher from the inside during his years with Arizona.

awtysst
08-18-2009, 07:05 PM
Not to mention Cushing hovering over the A gap

Yup. Cush at the A gap, Meco patrolling the middle, and the X man shoring up the front 7!

Ben Frank
08-18-2009, 07:10 PM
I gave him a 7.. I don't think he's better than Mario.. but I also believe he's above average! It was just his first preseason game and with a new team and style of play.. I think he will just get better in time.. not to mention the frist team D didn't allow any point's..

Carr Bombed
08-18-2009, 07:10 PM
I will say this; I'm not sold on the idea that Smith needs to move inside on passing downs. I like stout guys at DT and Okam showed he can get push up the middle on passing downs. Why not leave him (Smith) at DE?

Because if you're not moving him inside, then you're not getting the best out of him........the Cardinals realized this and that was one of the things that made him a highly sought after FA. Smith was tough to handle for teams inside, if you leave him strictly at DE you're taking away from his max production.

thunderkyss
08-18-2009, 07:19 PM
who?

GP
08-18-2009, 07:29 PM
I consider the dline to currently look like this:

DE1: Mario is Mario. Nothing else needs to be said here.

DE2: Smith is supposed to be the other DE, but with added duties as needed.

DE3: Barwin is a bonus, but can he realistically be a consistent producer?

Interior dlinemen:

Robinson is breaking through the line. He's ahead of the others, IMO.

Okam is showing some up-the-field power. Can he maintain it?

Bulman is a scrapper, and I consider him to be a lot like Robinson.

Travis Johnson. This is the biggest question mark on the dline IMO.

Okoye might not have the "it" that people hoped he would possess. However, what if he's going to be the guy that deflects attention from the other dlinemen during a play? He seems to always be just inches from hitting the QB's arm or from making the play. Which might make him a utility player who will never get the glory but who helps others to get there. He will get a sack. He will make tackles. But maybe he's just a role player, and not a game changer? The injury sucks, to say the least.

Cody is new to the team. He's not coming in with a lot of hype attached to him. I think Okam surpasses him, but that he's on the same level as TJ and Okoye. Which might get him more reps as we go along.

The most dominant lineup, IMO, would be:

RT --- RG --- C/QB --- LG --- LT
Smith Robinson Okam Mario

On a long passing down, such as 3rd and long it would be a 5-2-4:

RT --- RG --- C/QB --- LG --- LT
Barwin Smith Robinson Bulman Mario

DeMeco Cushing

Barwin can cover a TE or rush the QB, and the two LBs can blitz, or cover man, or fake a blitz and drop back into shallow zone as the QB tries to dump it off to a safety-valve RB or TE trying to run a shallow crossing pattern or slant or curl (hot route). Then you'd have two CBs and two safeties added to the mix.

So easy. When do I collect my paycheck from Bob McNair? j/k

thunderkyss
08-18-2009, 07:54 PM
I know it's just one preseason game, but what I saw, was the possibility to put pressure on the OL, relentlessly. Okoye, Okam, and Cody all showed the ability to get push up the middle, in bursts.... if they can do that consistently, and DelJuan continues to provide the pressure he has, we ought to be pretty good defensively.

Hopefully this is because of a new philosophy that Kollar is pushing.... or Bush for all I care... & we'll also see some of this out of TJ. Then we'll have 6 guys in the DT rotation, if you also count Smith.

I know some people think TJ is worthless, and will say they've never seen TJ do much of anything..... I respond..... Amobie, Cody, Okam never showed much either, till this one preseason game.

Mario, Bullman, Barwin, Smith..... relentless, Offensive Lines are going to get worn down on a regular basis.

NitroGSXR
08-18-2009, 08:05 PM
On a long passing down, such as 3rd and long it would be a 5-2-4:

RT --- RG --- C/QB --- LG --- LT
Barwin Smith Robinson Bulman Mario

DeMeco Cushing

Barwin can cover a TE or rush the QB, and the two LBs can blitz, or cover man, or fake a blitz and drop back into shallow zone as the QB tries to dump it off to a safety-valve RB or TE trying to run a shallow crossing pattern or slant or curl (hot route). Then you'd have two CBs and two safeties added to the mix.


I've noticed that when we go 5-2 it's almost always Ryans and Diles patrolling the middle. I've seen June put his hands down at the line as well as Cushing and Thompson. I don't know who else has put their hands down outside of the three LBs I stated. I saw Cushing out in coverage once but I do not know where everyone else. I was walking and turned my head just in time to see Cushing make an interception on the final play of practice. That was the only time that I'd actively seen him in a coverage play but I don't know if it was 4-3 or 5-2. I'll say this... I only noticed one other LB out there in space and that was Ryans.

Does what I said mean anything? I don't know. Just saying what I thought I saw.

The Pencil Neck
08-18-2009, 09:28 PM
I've noticed that when we go 5-2 it's almost always Ryans and Diles patrolling the middle. I've seen June put his hands down at the line as well as Cushing and Thompson. I don't know who else has put their hands down outside of the three LBs I stated. I saw Cushing out in coverage once but I do not know where everyone else. I was walking and turned my head just in time to see Cushing make an interception on the final play of practice. That was the only time that I'd actively seen him in a coverage play but I don't know if it was 4-3 or 5-2. I'll say this... I only noticed one other LB out there in space and that was Ryans.

Does what I said mean anything? I don't know. Just saying what I thought I saw.

In the game, I thought it was Demeco and Adibi in the middle positions.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2009, 09:34 PM
I know some people think TJ is worthless, and will say they've never seen TJ do much of anything..... I respond..... Amobie, Cody, Okam never showed much either, till this one preseason game.

Travis Johnson IS worthless. Seriously, how the heck are you going to constantly bash Dunta and then try to defend Travis Johnson LOL, that guy is a bum.

m5kwatts
08-18-2009, 09:39 PM
Travis Johnson IS worthless.

Sick of the TJ bashing. He's a Texan, deal with it. Its a huge year for him contract-wise as well as career wise. The FO as well as Kubiak believes he can contribute this year otherwise he'd be on the street. He's NOT Casey Hampton nor Jamal Williams nor Shaun Rogers nor whatever Pro Bowl caliber NT you wanna throw out there. He's not the super DT we all expected when he was a 1st round pick yes. But he can contribute to this team in some capacity if he gets his health right.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2009, 09:45 PM
Sick of the TJ bashing. He's a Texan, deal with it. Its a huge year for him contract-wise as well as career wise. The FO as well as Kubiak believes he can contribute this year otherwise he'd be on the street. He's NOT Casey Hampton nor Jamal Williams nor Shaun Rogers nor whatever Pro Bowl caliber NT you wanna throw out there. He's not the super DT we all expected when he was a 1st round pick yes. But he can contribute to this team in some capacity if he gets his health right.

:rolleyes: If you're sick of it, don't read it. I mean give me a freaking break with the "He's a Texan, deal with it" crap. David Carr was a Texan too and I dealt with that for as long as I could also. I'm not going to baby some lazy bum who makes millions of dollars and carries a "don't give a shit until it's my contract year" attitude....deal with that. The guy is a bust so get over it.....and as far as Kubiak thinking TJ can contribute on this team, he had some hard words for him before camp even started. I doubt he even thinks about Travis Johnson anymore and I doubt TJ even makes this team.

NitroGSXR
08-18-2009, 09:46 PM
In the game, I thought it was Demeco and Adibi in the middle positions.

Adibi was the one that I was forgetting. I knew I was forgetting someone else! I think Adibi was out for a practice or two and Diles came in? Doesn't matter. I don't think it'll be Cushing doing too much patrolling in a 5-2 unless he himself is on the line in the 4-3 Under or 5-2.

thunderkyss
08-18-2009, 10:00 PM
Travis Johnson IS worthless. Seriously, how the heck are you going to constantly bash Dunta and then try to defend Travis Johnson LOL, that guy is a bum.

Is it bashing Dunta to say that he's not a top 5 corner? 'cause that's all I've ever said.

I'm not saying that TJ is anything but avg... Like Dunta, he's the best we've had at that particular position.

We've seen TJ get more snaps during the regular season at DT, than anyone else on our team..... so I've got to believe Kubiak feels the same way.

This TC, is the first time that anyone has been offered as an alternative to Travis Johnson starting at NT. I like what I saw from DelJuan Robinson & Frank Okam for that matter at the NT position, against a 2-14 team.

I'm honestly saying I don't know if it's the "new" scheme, the new coach, or just better players.

I'm open to either, & I won't have a problem saying that DelJuan is a better option at NT than TJ, if it proves to be the case.

Right now, everybody is all about how DelJuan "outplayed" TJ, but DelJuan has not played the NT position during the regular season.

m5kwatts
08-18-2009, 10:13 PM
:rolleyes: If you're sick of it, don't read it. I mean give me a freaking break with the "He's a Texan, deal with it" crap. David Carr was a Texan too and I dealt with that for as long as I could also. I'm not going to baby some lazy bum who makes millions of dollars and carries a "don't give a shit until it's my contract year" attitude....deal with that. The guy is a bust so get over it.....and as far as Kubiak thinking TJ can contribute on this team, he had some hard words for him before camp even started. I doubt he even thinks about Travis Johnson anymore and I doubt TJ even makes this team.

All the whining and pouting over TJ and other Texans 1st round busts is just obnoxious and reminds me of Cubs fans. UGH.

It took a season (w/ the new regime) to determine Carr did not have worth to this team. TJ has been with this regime for 3 going on 4 seasons and he's still here. If he was a worthless lazy bum as you say he would not be on the roster. The Texans' football people in charge of determining these things disagree with you. We'll see how they feel when the roster is trimmed to 53.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2009, 10:27 PM
All the whining and pouting over TJ and other Texans 1st round busts is just obnoxious and reminds me of Cubs fans. UGH.

UGH, this is a Texans message board is it not? Where people discuss the team and the roster of the team (especially during the offseason). Travis Johnson deserves the criticism, if you can't handle it you might want to find something else to do. This has absolutely NOTHING to do with "Cub fans", that was a reach at best.



It took a season (w/ the new regime) to determine Carr did not have worth to this team. TJ has been with this regime for 3 going on 4 seasons and he's still here..

And what does that have to do with McNair hiring Kubiak under the guidelines that he could "fix David Carr"? Take that up with McNair not me....again apples to oranges and another reach...a bust a DT isn't even close to management trying to save face of a bust with a #1 ovrl QB. The QB will ALWAYS get more leeway. You can't make the club from the tub, especially when the blob sitting in the tub was a lazy, don't give a crap, slacker even when he was healthy.

If he was a worthless lazy bum as you say he would not be on the roster.

Last I checked we haven't even had roster cuts yet.... wake me up when we trim down to 53.


The Texans' football people in charge of determining these things disagree with you. We'll see how they feel when the roster is trimmed to 53.


I swear I've heard something like this before.......I believe it involved a thread about Chris Myers before the draft. It's funny how you're able to make predictions, but anytime anybody else does, they get the "The Texans' football people disagree with you" line :rolleyes. I mean I get it, you want to be a "homer" and that's fine and dandy, but don't attack other people when they try to discuss what's really going on.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2009, 10:37 PM
Is it bashing Dunta to say that he's not a top 5 corner? 'cause that's all I've ever said.

I'm pretty sure you've sad alot more than that, because nobody here would disagree with what you just typed above.

I'm not saying that TJ is anything but avg... Like Dunta, he's the best we've had at that particular position.

That is debatable....Deljuan was better last season.

We've seen TJ get more snaps during the regular season at DT, than anyone else on our team..... so I've got to believe Kubiak feels the same way.

Oh come on LMAO, are you really going to play that card? We all know that has more to do with his draft position/cap hit than anything else on this team. Flip draft positions with Deljuan and TJ....does TJ even start last year? Is TJ even on the team anymore. BTW you don't even have to answer that question LOL.

This TC, is the first time that anyone has been offered as an alternative to Travis Johnson starting at NT. I like what I saw from DelJuan Robinson & Frank Okam for that matter at the NT position, against a 2-14 team.

DelJaun was better last year, but like Kevin Walter he had to earn the starting spot and this year I think he has it.

I'm open to either, & I won't have a problem saying that DelJuan is a better option at NT than TJ, if it proves to be the case.

Right now, everybody is all about how DelJuan "outplayed" TJ, but DelJuan has not played the NT position during the regular season.

Well that's great, because Robinson is better and I hope he's rewarded over the fat slacker. BTW I watched alot of Lions games up north. Not only is DelJuan better, so is Shaun Cody. He basically gives you the same exact thin TJ does (actually if he started as many games as TJ, he'd probably give you more), except he's healthy right now.

Like I said, TJ is my surprise cut this year, but honestly....would it even be a surprise at this point?

thunderkyss
08-18-2009, 11:03 PM
And what does that have to do with McNair hiring Kubiak under the guidelines that he could "fix David Carr"? Take that up with McNair not me....again apples to oranges and another reach...a bust a DT isn't even close to management trying to save face of a bust with a #1 ovrl QB. The QB will ALWAYS get more leeway. You can't make the club from the tub, especially when the blob sitting in the tub was a lazy, don't give a crap, slacker even when he was healthy.


If what you're saying is true, "QB will ALWAYS get more leeway." TJ should have been gone before Carr, if he's as bad as you say.

Last I checked we haven't even had roster cuts yet.... wake me up when we trim down to 53.

We've already had three roster cuts..... 2006, 2007, 2008. In that time, we've lost Robaire Smith, Seth Payne, Anthony Maddox, Anthony Weaver, Jason Babin, Several DTs that came through camp, and haven't made the team.

I'm pretty sure you've sad alot more than that, because nobody here would disagree with what you just typed above.

No, that's pretty much all I've said. It just looks different coming from me.

That is debatable....Deljuan was better last season.


How can you say that, when they didn't play the same position? Del Juan outplayed Amobi last season..... he should be challenging for that spot.

Oh come on LMAO, are you really going to play that card? We all know that has more to do with his draft position/cap hit than anything else on this team. Flip draft positions with Deljuan and TJ....does TJ even start last year? Is TJ even on the team anymore. BTW you don't even have to answer that question LOL.

What??

DelJaun was better last year, but like Kevin Walter he had to earn the starting spot and this year I think he has it.


You don't even know that TJ & Del Juan played different positions....

Carr Bombed
08-18-2009, 11:21 PM
If what you're saying is true, "QB will ALWAYS get more leeway." TJ should have been gone before Carr, if he's as bad as you say.

Umm LOL, what kind of math are you working with? David Carr played FIVE full seasons here. When we got rid of him, TJ just finished his second season with us. Seriously what you just typed made zero sense.

We've already had three roster cuts..... 2006, 2007, 2008. In that time, we've lost Robaire Smith, Seth Payne, Anthony Maddox, Anthony Weaver, Jason Babin, Several DTs that came through camp, and haven't made the team.

Yes we've had three roster cuts, but most of those injured players will be added back to our IR once they clear waivers.....it's why they were cut in the first place. And as far as the other players you listed, I'm not talking about salary cap casualties (which is what most of those players were). We haven't had serious cut downs yet, those will start very soon.


No, that's pretty much all I've said. It just looks different coming from me.

Fair enough

How can you say that, when they didn't play the same position? Del Juan outplayed Amobi last season..... he should be challenging for that spot.

LMAO, we all know TJ isn't a true NT....that's one of the problems here and one of the reasons why I keep laughing at you for acting like he's a NT. you can switch him to the other DT position and it wouldn't make a damn bit of difference.

What??

You don't even know that TJ & Del Juan played different positions....

I know what positions our DTs play on this team, TJ played NT, because we drafted Amobi........that doesn't make him a true NT. If they plugged in DelJuan he would be even better at it....because he actually gives a damn and has a high motor. DelJaun CAN play every position on the line BETTER than Travis...he's simply a BETTER play. Travis Johnson simply doesn't give a crap...well until it was his contract year. Too bad the horrible shape he keeps himself in probably helped cause his current injury.

m5kwatts
08-18-2009, 11:25 PM
Before this gets anymore confusing with all the quoting Ima say this:

Carr Bombed - Nothing personal brah, just sayin, the whining over our 1st round busts is old especially when it comes to TJ. He's a bust, that aint breaking news. Its not even news worth harping on. Yeah its a Texans board but I expect more from Houston fans than whiney Chicago Cubs fans who lament EVERY negative thing in their history as if there's a conspiring force to keep them unhappy. The NFL is a cut-throat business where guys who don't produce get cut. You're acting like TJ is Jordan Black. He is contributing SOMETHING or he wouldn't be here.

Carr Bombed
08-18-2009, 11:48 PM
Before this gets anymore confusing with all the quoting Ima say this:

Carr Bombed - Nothing personal brah, just sayin, the whining over our 1st round busts is old especially when it comes to TJ. He's a bust, that aint breaking news. Its not even news worth harping on. Yeah its a Texans board but I expect more from Houston fans than whiney Chicago Cubs fans who lament EVERY negative thing in their history as if there's a conspiring force to keep them unhappy. The NFL is a cut-throat business where guys who don't produce get cut. You're acting like TJ is Jordan Black. He is contributing SOMETHING or he wouldn't be here.

Travis Johnson is still on the team....it's still relevent to talk about him, that's why I was talking about him. I'm not talking about Jordan Black and the only reason why I even brought up David Carr is, because you told me "Travis Johnson is a Texan, deal with it." I don't even really talk about Carr, because I chalked him up to a lost cause a long time ago.....much like I'm chalking up TJ right now, but like Carr, I think we need to cut bait already and move on. I gave him the benefit of the doubt before, much like I'm going to give Amobi the same this year....I'm pretty patient with our 1st round picks.

The TJ experiement is over...he sucks, cut him and move on. I'm tired of watching UDFAs and journeymen like DelJaun and Anthony Maddox outplay him. (anybody remember him? He's out of the league right now, but the sad thing is, when he was here he BLATANTLY outplayed our starter/hopefully former starter.....which is completely sad. I'd MUCH rather have a "Anthony Maddox type player" on this roster than a Travis "oh well I'm getting paid either way" Johnson type of player.)

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 09:39 AM
I think I might've mentioned this a few times. I don't think TJ is worth the spot he was drafted, but he isn't as bad as some make him out to be. Personally, I'd like to see him play for the Texans this season. He probably won't earn his starting role back, but he could be a decent part of our rotation.

In the end, the dude needs to get his butt on the field ASAP. Otherwise, he's going to lose out due to injury.

Carr Bombed
08-19-2009, 10:10 AM
I think I might've mentioned this a few times. I don't think TJ is worth the spot he was drafted, but he isn't as bad as some make him out to be. Personally, I'd like to see him play for the Texans this season. He probably won't earn his starting role back, but he could be a decent part of our rotation.

In the end, the dude needs to get his butt on the field ASAP. Otherwise, he's going to lose out due to injury.

I'd rather have Shaun Cody take that backup spot in the rotation, who's a better player.

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 10:19 AM
I'd rather have Shaun Cody take that backup spot in the rotation, who's a better player.

A better player? I don't think so. You say TJ hasn't done squat, but realistically, he's done more than Cody has in every stat since they both came out in 05. Cody couldn't win the starting job in Detroit.

I know you don't like TJ, but saying Cody is presently the better player is just flat out wrong.

Carr Bombed
08-19-2009, 10:27 AM
A better player? I don't think so. You say TJ hasn't done squat, but realistically, he's done more than Cody has in every stat since they both came out in 05. Cody couldn't win the starting job in Detroit.

I know you don't like TJ, but saying Cody is presently the better player is just flat out wrong.

No it's not, I've seen both players play and Cody is a better player....he's pretty decent against the run. Despite Detroit sucking over the years they've actually had good tackles and Cody IS Travis Johnson with health which is why I'd easily take Cody over him. TJ probably would've struggled to break through in Detroit as well. If two players are basically the same.....I'm taking the healthy one every day. How the hell is saying Cody is "presently" the better player flat out wrong when Cody is actually contributing to the team and TJ isn't doing jack crap? Sorry, but "presently" Cody IS the better player.

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 10:40 AM
No it's not, I've seen both players play and Cody is a better player....he's pretty decent against the run. Despite Detroit sucking over the years they've actually had good tackles and Cody IS Travis Johnson with health which is why I'd easily take Cody over him. TJ probably would've struggled to break through in Detroit as well. If two players are basically the same.....I'm taking the healthy one every day. How the hell is saying Cody is "presently" the better player flat out wrong when Cody is actually contributing to the team and TJ isn't doing jack crap? Sorry, but "presently" Cody IS the better player.

Agree to disagree and all that jazz. :tiphat:

76Texan
08-19-2009, 11:08 AM
Too little of a sample and too early to grade, I'll skip!

Texan_Bill
08-19-2009, 11:13 AM
No it's not, I've seen both players play and Cody is a better player....he's pretty decent against the run. Despite Detroit sucking over the years they've actually had good tackles and Cody IS Travis Johnson with health which is why I'd easily take Cody over him. TJ probably would've struggled to break through in Detroit as well. If two players are basically the same.....I'm taking the healthy one every day. How the hell is saying Cody is "presently" the better player flat out wrong when Cody is actually contributing to the team and TJ isn't doing jack crap? Sorry, but "presently" Cody IS the better player.

4 seasons:
Cody 53 games
Johnson 54 games

76Texan
08-19-2009, 11:27 AM
4 seasons:
Cody 53 games
Johnson 54 games

They will both contribute in the rotation.
We'll see who can come out with a better season, each in a different role.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 11:30 AM
Fair question. Inquiring minds want to know. Smith did okay. I think he played - for the few snaps the 1st team D played - better than Amobi. I think the scorekeeps gave his only tackle to someone else.

I will say this; I'm not sold on the idea that Smith needs to move inside on passing downs. I like stout guys at DT and Okam showed he can get push up the middle on passing downs. Why not leave him (Smith) at DE?

Okam isn't about to be worth anything. The guy is soft and lazy. I've got no problem moving Smith inside, because it seemed to work pretty well last season when the cards used him that way.

Texecutioner
08-19-2009, 11:33 AM
Before this gets anymore confusing with all the quoting Ima say this:

Carr Bombed - Nothing personal brah, just sayin, the whining over our 1st round busts is old especially when it comes to TJ. He's a bust, that aint breaking news. Its not even news worth harping on. Yeah its a Texans board but I expect more from Houston fans than whiney Chicago Cubs fans who lament EVERY negative thing in their history as if there's a conspiring force to keep them unhappy. The NFL is a cut-throat business where guys who don't produce get cut. You're acting like TJ is Jordan Black. He is contributing SOMETHING or he wouldn't be here.

I don't see what's wrong with CB pointing out the truth if that's what it is. TJ has been a total bust and every year people seem to try and talk about him as if he's about to finally turn it around. It is sort of a waste of optimism with him at this point.

The Pencil Neck
08-19-2009, 11:49 AM
4 seasons:
Cody 53 games
Johnson 54 games

The numbers overall are remarkably similar. Except, TJ is a starter and Shaun was mostly a rotation guy. TJ should have been getting more snaps because of that.

Tackles (solo) - 106 (80) to 91 (61)
Sacks - 2 to 1.5
Passes Defensed - 8 to 4
Interceptions - 1 to 1
Games Started - 38 to 11
Overall games - 54 to 53

Just seems like TJ has made more solo tackles and gotten his hands up more.

Just from looking at the one Chiefs preseason game, Cody seemed more active than I remember TJ ever being. I haven't seen TJ in this scheme. He might be more active in this scheme than he was in the old scheme.

I have to admit, I'm not expecting much from TJ and I think he's going to get cut and I think Cody is going to make the team.

Texan_Bill
08-19-2009, 11:59 AM
The numbers overall are remarkably similar. Except, TJ is a starter and Shaun was mostly a rotation guy. TJ should have been getting more snaps because of that.

Tackles (solo) - 106 (80) to 91 (61)
Sacks - 2 to 1.5
Passes Defensed - 8 to 4
Interceptions - 1 to 1
Games Started - 38 to 11
Overall games - 54 to 53

Just seems like TJ has made more solo tackles and gotten his hands up more.

Just from looking at the one Chiefs preseason game, Cody seemed more active than I remember TJ ever being. I haven't seen TJ in this scheme. He might be more active in this scheme than he was in the old scheme.

I have to admit, I'm not expecting much from TJ and I think he's going to get cut and I think Cody is going to make the team.

And that my friend ^^^^^^ is exactly what HOU-TEX's point was. (I think)

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 12:03 PM
And that my friend ^^^^^^ is exactly what HOU-TEX's point was. (I think)

Yes, yessir, it was. My bottom line is, they have both been very pedestrian to this point but the edge goes to TJ. I'd like to see TJ on field, and soon.

Texan_Bill
08-19-2009, 12:25 PM
The numbers overall are remarkably similar. Except, TJ is a starter and Shaun was mostly a rotation guy. TJ should have been getting more snaps because of that.

Tackles (solo) - 106 (80) to 91 (61)
Sacks - 2 to 1.5
Passes Defensed - 8 to 4
Interceptions - 1 to 1
Games Started - 38 to 11
Overall games - 54 to 53

Just seems like TJ has made more solo tackles and gotten his hands up more.

Just from looking at the one Chiefs preseason game, Cody seemed more active than I remember TJ ever being. I haven't seen TJ in this scheme. He might be more active in this scheme than he was in the old scheme.

I have to admit, I'm not expecting much from TJ and I think he's going to get cut and I think Cody is going to make the team.

And that my friend ^^^^^^ is exactly what HOU-TEX's point was. (I think)

Carr Bombed
08-19-2009, 12:27 PM
4 seasons:
Cody 53 games
Johnson 54 games

Okay

Carr Bombed
08-19-2009, 12:28 PM
Yes, yessir, it was. My bottom line is, they have both been very pedestrian to this point but the edge goes to TJ. I'd like to see TJ on field, and soon.

So if they're basically the same player (which I actually think Cody is a slightly better player), wouldn't you rather have the one that's healthy?

HOU-TEX
08-19-2009, 01:49 PM
4 seasons:
Cody 53 games
Johnson 54 games

So if they're basically the same player (which I actually think Cody is a slightly better player), wouldn't you rather have the one that's healthy?

I think that's the point TB was making. They have both missed a few games, but if we want to get picky Cody has missed 1 game more than TJ. That's what counts in the end, right?

We can do this all day between these 2 players, but I'll leave it with this. I think they both end up on the roster and in the rotation. That said, I would not be surprised if either one happens to get cut. I do agree with you TJ's had a history of mysterical injuries that seem to pop up come time for camp and I have criticized him for it too. But I'm not going to agree that Cody is a better player than TJ. At least not now

badboy
08-19-2009, 03:08 PM
I am just glad that Smith took my advice to select true nose tackle Ron Brace in the first. The laugh is on me. I am ok with Cushing but thought DT stopping the run and occasionally collapsing the pocket was a bigger need than LB.

Regardless of what round TJ was selected in, he has shown little to many fans. I've been told by other posters that he "does what the coach asks" but I still do not know what that is. Last season his 4th, Kubes had a talking session with TJ before season and it did not translate to much on the field. This is TJ final contract year and it remains to be seen if he will step up. Basic walk ons like DelJuan Robinson and Bulman should not be able to out play a 1st round guy. I know it happens but it shouldn't.

If TJ was good, why was Cody brought in? The priority need mentioned by GM & Head Coach after 08 and before free agency and the draft for 09 were in no particular order 1. Stopping the run 2. A DE to play across from Mario 3. A power runner for Red Zone that could also move the chains to eat up clock and get a 3rd down and short. 4. Reduce turn overs. Well, we signed the best DE FA available in Smith who can also move to DT & we don't know yet but that might work out. We signed Barwin and he had two very good plays... We did not draft a RB but Chris Brown did well for 6 attempts + a pass. He may be the RED Zone, 3rd & short chain mover. Turnovers well, we will see.

Stopping the run? We drafted a line backer. As I've said before, that's like signing a center fielder to make a play because your second basement can't. I am leaning hard on Smith and the scouts reps at getting good players. I think we will be all right. I wish I felt as strong that TJ was going to be all right.

76Texan
08-19-2009, 03:56 PM
I am just glad that Smith took my advice to select true nose tackle Ron Brace in the first. The laugh is on me. I am ok with Cushing but thought DT stopping the run and occasionally collapsing the pocket was a bigger need than LB.

Regardless of what round TJ was selected in, he has shown little to many fans. I've been told by other posters that he "does what the coach asks" but I still do not know what that is. Last season his 4th, Kubes had a talking session with TJ before season and it did not translate to much on the field. This is TJ final contract year and it remains to be seen if he will step up. Basic walk ons like DelJuan Robinson and Bulman should not be able to out play a 1st round guy. I know it happens but it shouldn't.

If TJ was good, why was Cody brought in? The priority need mentioned by GM & Head Coach after 08 and before free agency and the draft for 09 were in no particular order 1. Stopping the run 2. A DE to play across from Mario 3. A power runner for Red Zone that could also move the chains to eat up clock and get a 3rd down and short. 4. Reduce turn overs. Well, we signed the best DE FA available in Smith who can also move to DT & we don't know yet but that might work out. We signed Barwin and he had two very good plays... We did not draft a RB but Chris Brown did well for 6 attempts + a pass. He may be the RED Zone, 3rd & short chain mover. Turnovers well, we will see.

Stopping the run? We drafted a line backer. As I've said before, that's like signing a center fielder to make a play because your second basement can't. I am leaning hard on Smith and the scouts reps at getting good players. I think we will be all right. I wish I felt as strong that TJ was going to be all right.Okoye is the one who should be worried because of the arrival of Cody! They play the same position.

thunderkyss
08-19-2009, 04:47 PM
Okoye is the one who should be worried because of the arrival of Cody! They play the same position.

I don't know. DelJuan shared downs with Amobi in 2008, but didn't sniff at starting, even though he outplayed Amobi, and we knew Amobi wasn't 100%. Maybe he got more snaps, I don't know.

But of the 5 DTs we've got, Amobi, Okam, DelJuan, TJ, and Cody..... I'm pretty stoked about putting together a good line up during the regular season.

Of course, I'm high on our performance against the 2-14 Chiefs..... we'll have a better idea after the Saints game.

I was thinking about selling those tickets, but I'm pretty excited about being there now.

Thorn
08-19-2009, 05:07 PM
Of course, I'm high on our performance against the 2-14 Chiefs..... we'll have a better idea after the Saints game.

Yep. How our defense does against the Saints offense will tell us a lot.

76Texan
08-19-2009, 05:52 PM
I don't know. DelJuan shared downs with Amobi in 2008, but didn't sniff at starting, even though he outplayed Amobi, and we knew Amobi wasn't 100%. Maybe he got more snaps, I don't know.

But of the 5 DTs we've got, Amobi, Okam, DelJuan, TJ, and Cody..... I'm pretty stoked about putting together a good line up during the regular season.

Of course, I'm high on our performance against the 2-14 Chiefs..... we'll have a better idea after the Saints game.

I was thinking about selling those tickets, but I'm pretty excited about being there now.

Amobi and Cody didn't play at the nose, I don't recall seeing them there.
Unless we reduce the number of snaps in the Over and Under Front and use the other Fronts more. Or we're gonna play more penetrating defense...

Otherwise, there won't be enough snaps to share between Cody, Okoye and Deljuan. Or maybe they'll get Deljuan to play some at the nose, too?!?

76Texan
08-19-2009, 05:55 PM
Yep. How our defense does against the Saints offense will tell us a lot.

I wonder how much our first team will play?

NitroGSXR
08-19-2009, 05:57 PM
I wonder how much our first team will play?

I'm going to guess about most of the first half if not all.

Thorn
08-19-2009, 06:21 PM
I wonder how much our first team will play?

My guess is the entire 1st quarter and certain substitutions start in the 2nd. As a trend, the first team (offense and defense) plays the most time in the 3rd pre-season game, not the 2nd. But who knows?

76Texan
08-20-2009, 05:39 PM
Amobi and Cody didn't play at the nose, I don't recall seeing them there.

I take it back.

Cody did play some at the nose for the Lions.
I just watched the first half of their game against the Vikings.

thunderkyss
08-20-2009, 06:05 PM
Amobi and Cody didn't play at the nose, I don't recall seeing them there.
Unless we reduce the number of snaps in the Over and Under Front and use the other Fronts more. Or we're gonna play more penetrating defense...

Otherwise, there won't be enough snaps to share between Cody, Okoye and Deljuan. Or maybe they'll get Deljuan to play some at the nose, too?!?

I don't know that we'll keep 5 DTs. I really doubt it, especially if we're serious about moving Antonio Smith inside on certain downs.

DocBar
08-20-2009, 06:38 PM
I don't know that we'll keep 5 DTs. I really doubt it, especially if we're serious about moving Antonio Smith inside on certain downs. I wonder if Smithiak has the nads to cut a "fan favorite", former 1st round pick(read BUST) like TJ and keep players of less lofty draft status. That would be the last of the DC/CC era of wasted picks left on the team.

ObsiWan
08-20-2009, 08:38 PM
My guess is the entire 1st quarter and certain substitutions start in the 2nd. As a trend, the first team (offense and defense) plays the most time in the 3rd pre-season game, not the 2nd. But who knows?

That's what Kubiak said. A 1-1/2 qtrs for the 1's and 2's which leaves the 4th qtr for the 3's.

badboy
08-21-2009, 11:32 AM
I wonder if Smithiak has the nads to cut a "fan favorite", former 1st round pick(read BUST) like TJ and keep players of less lofty draft status. That would be the last of the DC/CC era of wasted picks left on the team.DR thinks the nads exist. If fans over all support team against DR, then fan reaction to TJ being cut would be "Oh, well."

jppaul
08-21-2009, 01:24 PM
I don't know that we'll keep 5 DTs. I really doubt it, especially if we're serious about moving Antonio Smith inside on certain downs.

I don't know about that. I think we will keep 5 to keep them fresh, in an aggressive up the field D, I think it makes perfect sense to keep 5.

Okam, Robinson, Cody, Okoye, and Johnson, thats my bet. Of course, the kicking inside of Smith, and other DE's render this less likely. Still IMO, we keep 5.

infantrycak
08-21-2009, 01:35 PM
I don't know that we'll keep 5 DTs. I really doubt it, especially if we're serious about moving Antonio Smith inside on certain downs.

Last year they carried:

Bulman
TJ
Okam
Okoye
Robinson
Zgonina